#1272 - Lindsey Fitzharris

Mar 26, 2019

Dr. Lindsey Fitzharris is an author and medical historian. She is the creator of the popular blog, The Chirurgeon's Apprentice and the host of the YouTube video series Under the Knife. Her book "The Butchering Art: Joseph Lister's Quest to Transform the Grisly World of Victorian Medicine" is available now via Amazon.

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I started following this woman on Twitter a while back she was tweeting all this crazy stuff about medical history just completely fascinating and and ask her to come on and talk about the book and it was amazing her name is Lindsey fitzharris fitzharris

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and she'll get her name is Lindsey fitzharris and her book is called the butchering art and it's amazing stuff I mean if your I mean we should be so goddamn thankful we don't have to get operated on like this anymore folks lives was amazing so please give it up for Lindsey fitzharris

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The Joe Rogan Experience

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Save-A-Lot Quincy what's happening pleasure to meet you. I'm looking for GT doing that as well as you have fascinated me with your Twitter page and you first of all how do you are a doctor for a PhD I can't save anybody's life Victorian surgery on this website with the real fun thing to get through customs when I was coming in from Britain it's Victorian amputation sauce called The Clockwork saw and four people are just listening a circular saw and there would have been a crank that you wound it with and then you would release it and it would spin sort of automatically

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is that it was a massive failure and I don't think we talked about failure enough and science and medicine you know things that work there's a lot of things that don't work and so this guy who invented the saw when he tried it out it was spinning so fast that he took off his assistants fingers when you in those old days when they didn't have antibiotics and antiseptic and when they saw someone's leg off for some point that many times those people live you could pull through the operation that was one part of it but then of course you could die a postoperative infection Joseph Lister who applies germ theory developed Santa stops at sojourn fighting techniques and most people don't know who he is but they know the product Listerine

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I always tell people that so basically Worcester was a British surgeon in came to America in 1876 to convince the medical community of germs and he decided to create this product Listerine but it wasn't even a mouthwash in the 19th century was used to treat gonorrhea go to a doctor man, you talking about it just is for breath right yeah it's all does an antiseptic mouthwash is it good to kill all that stuff inside your mouth like

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but you're a medical historian mouthwash so how did he know how did he know that they were real pretty theaters they were filled to the rafters with ticketed Spectators bought tickets to see someone get their leg hacked off how much does it cost how much it would cost for that I sent you my book I I signed it and I said I thought that being strapped the Victorian operating theater was the original Fear Factor

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we're talking about before anesthesia so you're fully awake one of my favorites to watch Army could take your leg off in about 30 seconds but that's still a long time dead air time he could think about was incredibly fast end walk into a knife in that photo invented which they think Jack the Ripper

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also used which is why those rumors are that Jack the Ripper may have been a medical practitioner but thought it's unknowable we're still kind of obsessed with us it's impossible to improve the Providence of the object is really tall one of my favorite stories is he would go so fast as he was in his mouth just like

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she's that's the face I wanted I wanted to be just totally disgusted through this whole segment and as you switching instruments and then is he was switching he slashed the coat of spectator Andy's system died of gangrene the patient died of gangrene and The Spectator died of fright is he got slashed in the with the jacket and I guess he had a heart attack from the stress and so it's jokingly referred to as the only operation with a 300% mortality rate do you say slashed you mean he cut The Spectator or just got blood on them. Bad guy in the butchering art is back on

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no not you know know know know the historical record go to it you know it's a stressful situation people getting their limbs 2 hacked off you know your blood pressure is really high what is wow so they have to actually clear the 4 sometimes you can imagine you know you're strapped to this and the leg wasn't the worst thing so one of the tweets that you shared of mine which your platform seemed to enjoy and sold me a lot of books by the way I think you on this story about this guy he was suffering from a bladder stone and it got stuck in his urethra and so out of desperation he stuck his penis in Hammer to break out

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it did not work now he died that guy definitely died but it's it really illustrates how desperate people have few options they had image of it I don't think you ought to show this on YouTube Jamie will you get banned this is definitely a medical yeah but I don't think you could try that on YouTube that's clearly a penis penises in breast on YouTube I want to see it Twitter is the most open of all platforms that let you get away with almost every that you can have porn on Twitter yeah something's get removed from Instagram it's really seems to depend upon how many people complain

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I just think they just want to do something this one press that button know I'm bad Michael history and it's it's dark history body-snatchers and things like that and I'm a firm believer that we should tell me stories openly because they happened in medicine and science crew the result of it but but they're not easy subjects to discuss with an audience especially when you have so many characters in Twitter and you're trying to get out of complex idea but also like you're not just there's a lot of Twitter page. If I were people just trying to gross people out but you're actually educating people about the history and we all should be really thankful that these people went through all the stuff that says we don't have to absolutely I always say to my audience so I have been going around the world sort of demolishing romantic Notions about people white

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Bulls is well and I've had four men faint so far it's come into my lecture and I think what it is though it is so I'm not going to eat and then their blood sugar plum is so it's not really prepared you know and understand lectures at this incredible Museum called the operating theater in London it's the second oldest in the world and still you have to stand operating theater and so people lock their knees or whatever so you give actual lectures in the real theaters where they used to cut you see it if my Stones heard of a like a theatrical blister

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I got this made into a movie I'm trying to come into Hollywood and convince Hollywood that this Quaker searching for a more lies than any other person it is an epic story and if anybody has ever gone through operations and I've gone through several of them we owe those people a massive debt be awake strength to wake up and they're fixed so they weren't laid down and they were satin he's very high chairs with their feet Tangled so they couldn't brace against the night if you think about Robert Penman and I know we have images and I'm sure YouTube on take those that comes to Robert Liston the fastest knife in the West End in the 1828 and it's a huge facial

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tumor growing I mean it's been growing for about eight years it's taking up his whole face to can't breathe now and Liston looks at him and says I can't do this operation which is but it goes up to Scotland and he goes there is wow yeah it's it's incredible when you see that painting on so pendant goes up to Scotland and he sees a guy named James agrees to do this operation and Penman is fat for 24 minutes in a chair restrained while this thing is cut out of his face and dropped in a bucket and and yeah well we have a picture of them later in life. Wow he looks like he's going and seeing as face though it's definitely

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such crazy stories like there's a woman who has a mastectomy and he4t without any anesthetic this time you would have if you were wealthy or if you're middle class you to have this operation in your home kitchen table on which is which would have been safer than going to the hospital and to give you an idea of how gross it was the bug catcher who would rid on the beds of lice he was paid more than the doctors and surgeons in the Stacked that's pretty important around these hospitals so if your welfare middle-class you had research and come to your home and so she has a surgeon come in the surgeon determine said yes the breast has to come off and says I'm going to return but I'm not going to tell you the day which would make me more anxious he thought it was going to help her not focused

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text to prepare her soul for death but this isn't very confidence-inspiring a doctor's listening don't tell your patients to prepare their soul for. And and she she does survive and she talks about how it's so vascular that the blood blind him at one point when you think it can't get worse you can't see and he's under she is under his hand for an hour and a half away and she ends up living a long and somewhat happy wife I'm sure she had a nightmare stronger are more able to adapt to pain and we are but none the last there would have been some pretty heavy restraint

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or was it always common human years old of metastatic cancer so I'm diagnosing it for four centuries in centuries I'm not really an expert in history of cancer but it is Round And so with breast cancer you know probably by the time we got to the stage mastectomy it probably would have spread you think about like you know what the invisible to the naked eye but she survived she did survive and so then you have to question whether she had breast cancer or maybe it was some kind of maybe a cyst and she went through that for that before and comes up with germ fighting techniques this would have been so dangerous because you have is open cavity and so Joseph Lister when he comes up with his antiseptic techniques he actually performs a mastectomy on his sister on his dining room table

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don't you think I do think it would be a great movie it's like it would be a great one for the Coen brothers that kind of yeah you're good. Pieces to make it more entertaining I have no cold I'm not a part of that world but this guy with the face where they cut that to metal say so for 24 minutes that's all it took to cut that thing out of his face a very good surgeon in James sign but there are there's a story so going back to penises there is lithotomy is the removal of the stone which you saw a kind of demonstration there and it was incredibly painful

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you know it's kind of a mess because of course drinking with thin your blood but they said I heard that surgeons would punch the patient out and I was like really good it should knock someone out on a first punch of course you do more damage you could do a lot of damage that that's definitely didn't happen unless someone can prove you wrong maybe there's like a weird example but I've never come across that and the surgeon and with the lithotomy it takes about a good surgeon took about 5 minutes will there's a guy named Steven Paul Arden 1828 goes in to have this done now it's incredibly embarrassing it's your you know you're naked from the waist down it's an embarrassing operation it's painful he's brought into the theater and the surgeon ends up taking over an hour because he's so intact and the patient is screaming you please just stop just stop and Don and the surgeon yells back at him for having abnormal Anatomy

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would you like that you're sitting there on the on the table and you're being blamed for this going wrong and he pulls to the operation but he does die of postoperative infection anatomy and soap on the autopsy report it was revealed that there was nothing abnormal about his anatomy of the surgeon just was really in that yeah it wasn't blaming the guy but I'm alright well I hosted Fear Factor for six years I've seen everything has nothing to fear factor that you thought I don't know if I can watch that no know when they have a drink, that was rough second version of Fear Factor when it came back for a brief. Of time and they were going way too hard they were trying to outdo themselves

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way over the top didn't have to come with regular Fear Factor we would have all been fine it was a blessing in disguise but this this surgery as we know it when did it first start like what is the first historical recounting of an actual doctor did them they would have been you know sometimes what they call the Wise Women, kind women and barber surgeons

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razors right yes yeah actually Barber surgeons used to do things like pull your teeth that used to blood and so the barber pole which is red and white is red and white because it was advertising their services is blood letters so what they would do if they would tie these bloody Rags around the pole and it was around the pole I know it's one of my favorite story represented the bowl that would catch the blood and the stick would have been the stick that you held to kind of get your veins to stick out and people were blood left for all kinds of reasons like you would do it like a purge or because you were in the idea being that you can produce too much blood and you needed the blood to be latitudes kind of restore balance in your body to go back in time and hear someone say something that's stupid like you're sick you need to remove some of your blood do you have too much blood in your system Lindsey

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tonsorial Services what is that mean shop quartet comes from the idea that the music in the office that you would play or the patient with play was like musical therapy so there's all kinds of hangovers from it and you know the Demon Barber Sweeney Todd they think that it might be that medical practitioners were trying to undermine the legitimacy of The Barbers shopping you up and showing you and making you into pies or is that a legit one because that seems like nonsense listen to my troubles no charge listen to your troubles 50 Cent's Mi to had that on there Barber thing when they're cutting bolts out of you it says bullets removed two bucks they're all drunk, mustache wax

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I don't know bullets were that gunpowder was poisonous so a surgeon would often amputate if you were shot depending on where it was but it could just be like a recreation of something that someone and they're selling it as a piece probably get the ride barber poles now so what happened was the barber surgeons and the surgeons split off professionally at some point in history and so the surgeon start to use blue and white poles in the barbers use red and white pole that you can come in and get your bloodletting cuz those those bloody Rags would have been out there on the pole before they had the pole they would advertise by putting just bowls of congealed blood in the window

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and then in London by the fourteenth Century decide no more of that so the Barbara started to throw the blood into the river which is also he would have definitely been doing minor surgical procedures and they would have been more affordable than the surgeons and Physicians themselves but nobody could really do much for you in that. According to our own 324 Saunders understanding but I always say to go back to your question about you know how would it feel to hear something so dumb what do you think today that you don't a hundred years were going to look back at it and there's there's definitely going to be stopped right that we know that totally works you know that that trend of copying now that you see so that was also it's 17th century so they would cut they would have these heated cops and they would create this blister and then they would cut it off

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a sharp instrument and that's how they would we do a thing that's coming back but for slightly different reasons I don't think there's any evidence of cupping is real and I like to point people to the Past cuz if we're going to make fun of you know what they were doing in the past it's kind of making out of yeah there's a there's no medical evidence of that has any kind of health benefit yeah but it's edible I think that's why they can eat it is lovely object is Haskell hear my friend saying why we create seeds are actually cereal bowls and I like to talk about which is corpse medicine so people used to actually eat that buy used for medicinal purposes will parts so if you had Apple FC in the early modern. Somewhere like talking like six

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17th 18th centuries on people would drink the blood of an executed criminals force and so you get the sort of drawings of people gathered at the scaffold what's he was so awful because it was so misunderstood and you can imagine you know when someone goes into a seizure it's it's it's scary and if you don't understand what's happening you could think that it's witchcraft all kinds of things that people thought about that disease who these people were quite that's what they were drinking the blood of executed criminals mummies and they would make it into the Hills today it's kind of like you know a form of ingesting bodily

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yeah yeah so people are just super super desperate back then listen and organ donation so we're taking dead body parts are not eating nothing but would run into her body to cure ourselves on my right knee I had a huge fist fight I had some gum disease up here and then they had to like graft a little white piece of cadaver bone freeze dry bone or something but it says it's a cadaver to use the Achilles tendon for the ACL because the Achilles tendon is much larger than an ACL so it's stronger and if you don't are you familiar with the way it works really tired after eating

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the way it works is not like it takes over a solid organ transplant so you don't have to worry about your body rejecting in the same way although sometimes I feel like bodies don't accept it or doesn't work but they take this graft they put this new tendon in place this new ligament Place rather and then your body reproduce rates that would sell so it's even though it'll feel like it's healed up with in like a month or two like your your Neil feel a bit weak from the surgery but people get a distorted perception of how strong it actually isn't fighters in particular I know several fighters who is Wanda burry injuring their knee because they thought it was okay real really it was very gummy and very weak so how long does it take to heal before the 6-month Mark 6 to 9 months they recommend

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we can do now about a hundred fifty years ago that I'm talking about in today it's just it and I always said germs there would be no way to go deep into the body with sure but it was it was a great time and I definitely could die very easily like the idea that woman getting her breasts removed on our kitchen table little kids would it hurts and the surgeon said no more than having a tooth pulled

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Sabi for his little legs fell off of chances of it on becoming infected was quite high so when Lister comes along and he's trying to figure out what's causing infection he notices that if it's a clean break and there's no break in the skin usually he was okay but if there's a break in the skin and gets infected and usually leads to some kind of gangrene or septicemia and that's how he starts to wonder it must be something coming from outside and getting into this room that is causing the infection but he breeds Louis Pasteur's germ Theory this is how I actually conservative in the sense that it's like puzzle-solving it's someone you solve the puzzle within the rules that are already set out if someone comes from sort of The Fringe

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has this wild idea usually is a lot of pushback and so that's exactly what happens with Lister and it's hard for us to imagine because germs we understand it today it seems obvious to us cuz he answers instruments because why would he wash his hands are the instrument that they were going to get dirty with the next patient so you have to get into the mines a logical Mind of a Victorian surgeon they were a prince I think Jamie I'd also send a picture of Like a Surgeon with with his apron on on actually it's a picture of a butcher but it gives you that kind of idea of what your friendly Victorian surgeon would have been wearing and that apron the more blood hat on it was like a sign of Pride almost because that meant that your surgery was very experienced to have a lot of tools of the trade would have been on your surgeon

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they would warn those really tall Top Hat send on those crazy plaid colors and it's it's a very colorful time before Victoria course plunges the nation into morning later so lister's coming in a while to eat E46 fairies are colorful and filthy dirty and tortillas plunge the nation in the morning what do you mean by that morning so she's always rest of her life and everybody follows her example but actually that's what they would it look like they would have been wearing those plasma spray colors with top hats but Worcester was a Quaker who think of like Quaker Oats which is his kind of accurate and he would have been wearing black and white and read all colors so when I think about this movie cuz I think about it a lot I think about sort of this world being very hedonistic and colorful and there's a lot of drugs going on on their discovering ether and all kinds of things that their experiment

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and then you have this somber Quaker and as the movie sir progresses the world catches up and gets a bit cleaner with Worcester it was just a crazy time so ether is so my book on begins with the first operation under anesthesia and I wanted to start their because I think if anybody has ever thought about history surgery which they might not have until they turn into this podcast they tend to think of that moment that's the big moment but actually surgery becomes much more dangerous because the surgeon still doesn't understand but he doesn't have the patience fighting him anymore and he performs the first operation under ether in 1846 in London and he doesn't think it's going to work that comes from America he calls it the Yankee Dodge and it's a miracle

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age of Agony is over it was discovered everybody wanted to try it that's drug that made you insensible what was that like and so you get these kind of stories of medical students sniffing and drinking it in fact I believe you're still place in London you can get in either cocktail imagine that there were a lot of crust but it's really quickly you drop it on the strawberry then you don't get into champagne and it's supposed to get you really high very quickly and then it wears off equally quickly like in the Victorian experiment on the people that came to your book lunch

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great story should probably see if you're towing first so you have ether instead of the mid-nineteenth century and of course later you have cocaine you have opium which is it will actually cocaine comes along and is presented as sort of a cure to the opiate the morphine addiction so I know how that show the dentist and he's pulling a tooth and the person wrote underneath just had a tooth pulled with cocaine so they were they were using it for all kinds of things and doctors were becoming addicted themselves these drugs are heroin heroin is given to your children and it's putting all kinds of things again

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who was the mummy that was found in ancient Egypt that tested positive for cocaine but they think that it might be a false positive because apparently there's something else that they would consume back then that would make you test positive for cocaine but it was some Evan I think what they were trying to connect to now I remember they were trying to connect this to the idea that people from Egypt have the ability to travel to the Americas

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and that someone from here goes American drugs in ancient Egyptian mummies to make a little larger please it says it seems safe to say that Bubba Bubba Bubba in 1992 a new study of mummies from ancient Egypt created quite a stir when is NASA discovered traces of nicotine and cocaine in their hair both of these chemicals came from plants found only in South America in this research has since been touted as evidenced a pre-columbian contact between American Africa something thought to be impossible based on the rest of the archaeological record so what's going on with start by looking at the evidence of the performed by Chevelle. Balabanova into that's a serious woman and two of her colleagues at The Institute for anthropology and while this is in Munich German words for anthropology probably in Humanities of the university in Munich transfer carried out by 9 mummies

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9 Memories music museum dating from 1070 to 395 BC to study focus on hair samples with your offering used to assess drug concentrations in the body to the results was it say hear what they discovered all the mommies tested positive for cocaine and hashish which makes sense the results cause an immediate start with a cut to the chase your folks person to say archaeologist and not just being stubborn about this too many reasons not to take the traces of drugs and 9 mummies means what is it what is a conclusion cut to the chase you FOX 13 cocaine Backup backup cocaine stop okay cocaine muscle seems today was first discovered early civilizations the Andean region of South America that you in the coca leaves exactly instead the cocaine and possibly the nicotine to were actually being introduced to the mummies as part of an embalming process

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well more like the obtain cocaine from America okay I don't know I give up I have to read this just seems like it's going to take many raisins and spices whole in second ward certainly use this day where aren't entirely sure what they all were where are exotic materials almost certainly used and it is far less of a stretch to suggest this included imports from the Middle East and potentially as far afield as Indio I don't know Egypt were able to travel all the way to the Americas where cocaine was but I think I think part of the conclusion was that there was some other things that would make that you test positive for cocaine poppy seeds make you test positive for heroin in Jeff to go for a drug test for work as they don't eat poppy seed Bagels

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so they might have Mike said it was there in some people come look and then it said what was there cocaine at says I'm passing the corpses off the recently deceased as anxious mommy's was a thriving tourist scam in Egypt during the Victorian era could have it doesn't make sense cuz it's after the discoveries around okay so bunch of coke ya think about how much was destroyed what do I think about it all the time there's a fantastic wow look at that that is nuts mummy extracts Cheraw whatever you got fix it was late night things that are causing people

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lose weight in those late-night infomercials right now there's an IMAX exhibit in Los Angeles at one of the Museum's saw it about a year ago but they have a King Tut exhibit and then on top of that they have this gigantic IMAX theater which is fantastic and they show all these different tombs that they discovered and how they discovered ummon but it makes you really when they discovered King Tut's tomb we have no idea how many similar to know there were that were looted over the many hundreds of thousands of years yeah it's just incredible the victorians are responsible for destroying a lot has mommy's and its grounding a model and all kinds of things

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gets me is what was the most likely where was the theory like when the theory come from like when you want to take a mummy and make it a powder

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would have been sort of folk medicine influence of sympathetic magic so van for instance if if I stabbed you with a sword very violent you could be healed if I put the service special sympathetic powder on the sword it would heal you so it was sort of this song healing by distance so all kinds of strange ideas existed that's why it's important when you're studying history medicine to really get into the mindset cuz it's so wildly different to the way we actually do you know what this is I brought the sun if you were just listening it's it's a long beat mask I do not know what they think this is a Venetian Mathis is actually particularly on a particular sample from Venice it is what people would have doctors would have worn during the Bubonic plague so slow

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I'm it was invented in the 17th century by a French doctor and the idea behind it was so people thought that disease was spread by the thing called my asthma which were like little particles in the air sociated with bad smells hope it's something smells bad it's probably not good for you is what they thought it kind of makes sense cuz it's like you know you're in a really if you're in the area of the Victorian. It probably has a lot of diseases probably doesn't smell good so that was sort of the thinking behind it so what you would do if you would put sweet-smelling herbs into the beak and so you would be smelling the scent it would protect you from those evil miasma yeah it's a no

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is that a real one that we don't actually have I don't believe there's an example of a real one from the 17th century there's a lot of illustrations of the plague doctor and he would have been wearing my hat Jordan wearing a leather gloves are you go through plague doctor mask preserved and on display at the there yet another one Thurston made of German Museum of medical history understand but we don't know how much they were born because it would have been expensive a lot of doctors weren't very Noble so the plague broke out they got the hell out of there there was heard of a phrase go far and go long he'll get out and don't come back for a while it wasn't much they can do for you they had a stick as well that they would sort of poke the patient with so they wouldn't have to touch the patient and kind of have them turn over

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you know yes you have the plague there wasn't much they could do for you we can see what they did not know what germs were so they really didn't understand what the plague was sort of a concept of of contagion so if you broke out with a played they would probably quarantine you in your house and they put a big cross on the door and so the people would bring food and put it back it outside of your window with a rope and you take they do that until everybody was dead in the house worth of the plague in past and they felt that you were safe to come out into the general population there was an idea that these things were contagious but not again in the way that we kind of understand disease diseases being spread today so strange did not know what was going on what people are dying and what is its occurrence

► 00:50:32

I always say that good luck

► 00:50:40

this is why I brought this to cross the Atlantic by Joe Rogan's where to play. How many people know what that is like if you want like to party cuz I was just in Venice recently and they were saying that you know the big carnival that they have every year it's becoming harder to do because of security reasons so you have like a huge population to City wearing masks and covering their identities but yeah it is fortunate and we're plague mask straps or that other example he was showing it look like it was sort of a full-on that looks so creepy

► 00:51:39

sure what would you think that would be when you see the Hazmat so it's a weird thing that exists because strange kind of way probably still didn't understand how diseases spread of the theory of alien abduction being a distant memory of childbirth

► 00:52:14

no there's a theory that is actually being tossed about that these people that have this ancient well they have his memory of childbirth right so all the sudden you're being born is bright lights above you there's a man or a woman who's the surgeon with a mask that covers your face all you see is their eyes and everything looks bright and it's terrifying and clinical and you're on the stable and things cold most of these alien abduction experiences that people recount they take place in some sort of a medical facility and everything is bright and strange and cold and they think that what this is is there they're saying that we had this idea that children don't have memories that babies don't have memories and why wouldn't they would have them

► 00:53:14

free of every second that they were born it's probably one of the most profound and disturbing memories because before that everything is incredibly peaceful through inside the mother's womb and you pulled out and then either has his bright light above you never experienced any life so every in your visual perception your field of view is all distorted right does the first time using your eyes that's why people have the same yes this is a theory it makes sense to me because of you think about looks so well does because people don't really go anywhere see the thing about the abduction thing is they put like cameras in people's rooms and and they say they have these alien abduction experiences but they don't go anywhere so what they're doing is a dream mean which is normal so it's kind of

► 00:54:14

because they all happened while you're sleeping like a 90 + percent is very Medical in nature right you're being examined and then there's also going back to childbirth is also a lot of people that have these experiences that they are being told that either they're taking their baby away from them or they're studying their baby that they had a baby inside of them that I didn't know about and that the aliens have put it there and they're taking it out yeah I mean it even goes back to the Virgin birth right and it's all it's all very weird but this this memory that people have from childhood is most likely you know I'll probably a pretty intense powerful memory that's always there and your first memory

► 00:55:14

women having natural childbirth in a bathtub and I like that that is actually I'm so women in the Village Wood, and actually the term gossip comes with spread the word in the village that someone was going to labor they were called the gossips city hall or female only chamber on and men were not really allowed in a man might be brought in if the mother was dying or the child was dying and then in that case instruments were brought into the birth the birthing chamber so the doctor might come in and he might want a piece of the four sets and the baby apart and take the baby out maybe we'll die extreme like this was going to happen when the mother is going to die the baby going to die

► 00:56:14

or if the baby's coming out feet first and then around Midwife in the people think that it comes from the term Vig that Julius Caesar was ripped from the womb at his mother but it's unlikely that that story is true because his mother lives into old age so that inter mean to cut and the first sort of record we have of this happening and I think is in the 16th century and it's a farmer and he takes the instruments that he uses to castrate is this baby out of his wife and we don't have any records of Worcester this it's probably didn't work again no idea we'd and yeah I don't have there's no sort of it doesn't follow the records don't follow the story but she probably died in the baby probably died as well

► 00:57:13

sometimes I'll castrate them and then let them loose because then they suck they concentrate on grass and not ass that is a actual Farmers term castrating pigs well that's what they do with steers as well the difference between a steer and a bull is steers castrated they castrate them because they make better steaks

► 00:57:38

things I learned that you don't want a muscular Jack bull eat his steak Yeah it's a buffalo above by my friend Adam Greentree shot. In Australia and they my friend cam was chewing on a piece of his for one piece for half an hour 2000 lb sack of Steel no no I mean did they say they're very like sometimes some of them you can eat you know I mean you can eat them throughout this whole problem but they're just insanely dense it sucks also an invasive species so they have no natural Predators there's just thousands and thousands and destroying the countryside until people travel up to the northern lands

► 00:58:38

and I forget that the name of the place where they go when they hunt these things are huge experiment brought in so many animals and well and they're not indigenous I'm so when you think about the history of surgery and is that you you concentrate on this one very particular time in this book but as a medical historian like when wet force will what led you to that you seem so normal

► 00:59:12

probably skulls and stop in front of me like that kid never grew out of the obsession with Tales from the Crypt a segment for documentary in the shrunken heads and I had to go to the point I actually got to hold these things that I was always fascinated with growing up poor people don't know that they think the skulls in there that's why are they almost at the tribe that makes the skulls they were done for a specific purpose to trap the soul of the warrior that they killed so that there was a spiritual reason behind it but what they were finding was at some of these kids were female which probably means that as westerners came at these areas they wanted to collect these shrunken heads of curiosity the course and so they traded guns for heads

► 01:00:12

and so it kind of drove up the the demand for these the shrunken had already died but they definitely aren't all authentic in the sense that they were but that's no no one really wanted to talk to you I joke that I was I also looks like Barb from stranger things. Sorry buddy and I was just devastated like nobody noticed for you to like a whole season but he's missing overslept I'm Sorry by the pool

► 01:01:12

to study history in college and then I went to Oxford and I did a masters and PhD in it but Academia is not it isn't doesn't allow me to be as creative and weird as I'd like to be so now I'm just a Storyteller I'm a freelance writer and I do this YouTube channel and I'm sure Oxford going to like give us the peach PhD back all you do is very interesting entertaining me that's why I started following you and retweeting your stuff it's really fun and I will get at least academic historians will come at me on Twitter and stuff in this one guy said to me we were just an Entertainer and I was like that's not an insult that's not true you have a Ph.D a stupid what school

► 01:02:12


► 01:02:17

makes it true and every tweet was like on Coca rats cocaine laced cigarettes which you would also I'm sure it was just all the kind of crazy and then at the end of the thread I said but what is it about today that people will look back but you know this one academic was like this is really you know bad history and you're making it fun the big complaint that people have about Academia said it's so stuffy yeah yeah I know it's just it's one of those things like I've had to make peace with on because I am a Storyteller and if you look at my profile I call myself a Storyteller first resident historian writes stories that was for us in 2019 or so incredibly fortunate to have you no actual real doctors with real modern medicine

► 01:03:17

fix us a talking to a guys had probably five surgeries and they barely make you know I think the incisions like an inch long or something it doesn't bug you might had shoulder surgery and the the actual cuts are like millimeters tiny little cats you barely can see the scars surgery they weren't necessarily their worst there were Sports in competitions but most injuries from repetitive strenuous labor that they were doing a story of a cab driver in the 18th century and he got this aneurysm behind his knee so the cab drivers in 18 century were these high boots like riding boots at the back of the knee

► 01:04:17

this huge aneurysm and there was a surgeon in John Hunter in London who said will normally what you do is you would have to live off because I don't know but he said I have an idea I want to cut into the wagon when it's high off the blood supply to the aneurysm I want to see if that works and it did and you save this guy's leg and that's really important because remember these people had no options if they couldn't work a lot of you and your people think of a thing of a brain what's the what's the term it's it's a specific kind of aneurysm it's almost like a balloon that yeah I don't know

► 01:05:16

about that story actually is that when the man. He writes a letter and he Wills his body to Hunter so this is one of the first early drive to song versions of sorry at the Royal College of Surgeons in London bombed wax injections almost like plastination exhibit what do you think about that I was very torn when I was walking around this because what a part of me was saying this is really fast in it and the other part do you say what is the difference between This and like fucking Ed gein's house where he made lampshades out of people

► 01:06:16

yeah woman there has been controversies with certain exhibitions maybe not Body Worlds but there's been some spin-offs where there's been a question of where they got those bodies are also going into certain poor areas and asking people to hand over their bodies is it really concerns because sometimes these families don't have money for tolls and I think my view is

► 01:06:40

what you know it's it's given under the guise of science that we can only view dead bodies through the lens of science day that's the only acceptable way but it really is arts and I wish it would just be more openly recognizes just art whether it's your kind of thing or not because some of it is really shocking ways right right right, cool lesson why does the person have to be posed in the sort of dramatic way so I think that you know it would be better if we just call it for what it was it's hard and it supposed to be provocative in shocking and that's why people come to see it and we're more serious it is absolutely horrible people kind of my Instagram account you know I mean we're still morbidly curious as well did you ever see that movie with Benicio del Toro

► 01:07:40

although I think it's just a wolf man was one of the more recent werewolf movies but he becomes a werewolf in the operating theater so the doctor is convinced the doctors convinced that he's a Madman is something wrong with him so they give him electric shock therapy and all these different things. It supposed to be in this. London so yeah see me in find it it's kind of a crazy scene Frankenstein under also interested in how long do you live or your conscience after you beheaded weather like shouting at the house to see if a link so I'm sure we can share this on YouTube so this only be us watching this cuz if we are on YouTube though don't do a

► 01:08:40

he's like saying that he's going to kill all of them like you and you need to get out of here and they this doctor is very arrogant and they're dealing with them in the Moon Turns full and he starts freaking out and it's it's really interesting because of this was actually how they had patients trapped in is that accurate like the way that chair is set up so his feet it look like his feet were on the ground so the chair would have been higher so it's feet would have served angled that's one of the best ever and I'm a giant werewolf and this is one of the best ever cuz this is actually done by Rick Baker who's the same guy who did American Werewolf in London which is the werewolf it's out in the hall in the lobby at the Modern version of it that they decided to make and the other thing is that these guys are watching this in the doctors arrogant he has back to the patient was discussing

► 01:09:40

so crowded that is so strange though that this was like this was entertainment this is something that people wanted to say that the victorians were obsessed with scientific progress so they wanted to come in and see

► 01:10:05

yeah this is it's not a good movie but it's a it's a great scene there's a bunch of great scenes in this movie I enjoyed just because I love werewolf movies

► 01:10:18

it would have been fun to shoot

► 01:10:21

yeah well it's some it's all so they decided in this movie to make it with minimal use of CGI what they decided to do is do it all with actual rubber masks and things like that pretty ridiculous movie or the six to Giant on the table who had a bladder stone removed remember how awful that was and this guy was like fuck it I'm not going to do it jumps off the table he runs across room locks himself in the closet and Lipton list and I'll fix two of them chases guy rips the door off and just drags and bag yeah he was pushing this movie hard are you trying to sell that while you're out here

► 01:11:17

I know I could sell the rights to book but I've held onto him and I'm developing them with my producing partner because this book was born out of a lot of trauma so a couple years ago I went through a really bad divorce and I was facing deportation as a result from the UK and so I had no money either took my passport everything like I couldn't do anything so I wrote this book and so I always say that Joseph Lister saved a lot of because it's kind of lifted me and it's been a rebirth I've always been fascinated with have much creative input at all but yeah I just think that you know it's it's a great story because it's it's her across as with the with people who are interested in the horror genre right cuz you get the surgery Victoria 30 buddy to uplifting story about something that changed the world in the way we fundamentally understand it envisioned playing Lister I see Bradley Cooper

► 01:12:17

perfect Perfect movie star Eddie Redmayne the British actor whose likes he's so sweet and Wister the very sort of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them Harry Potter he's really big in Britain or Benedict Cumberbatch as awesome as he's another guy was awesome and everything in the world but he's all you know he can play with Stephanie.

► 01:13:22

perfect you I'll be that guy I'll be the guy of faith

► 01:13:29

Windows fall down and passed out from Fright so this book sort of you were in quite a bit of personal anguish yourself in credit has brought so you have this deep attachment to and I can cook completely understand that as well and if you ever seen these guys photos I mean it's we have no problems you think we have no problems in the 21st century you look at these guys because they've been shot for the face and their jaws are missing and Harold Gillies on really designs or starts plastic surgery as we know it and it was a time when losing a limb major hero but losing your face made you a monster so these guys are really isolated and so what Gillies does he gives them their identity. So it's starts on the battlefields of War

► 01:14:29

we're wine and it's going to kind of follow Gillies throughout I like to do character-driven stories even though they're a hundred percent sure I like to swear to follow medical history Through The Eyes of one particular person in history plastic surgery is fascinating to me and I'm hooked on that show botched Christ what are you doing man stop doing that people put themselves through right people on social media and how do we feel about that telling you I'm 37 I'm feeling bad about my body I can imagine if you're like 14 and awkward in your Barb you know any access these accounts in the effects it has on young people on Instagram and everything well I had Jonathan hate on the podcast who wrote this book The coddling of the American mind and one of the big things that you do

► 01:15:29

Gus's is people comparing themselves to others through social media and children particularly girls this higher instances of suicide cutting depression much higher incidences of depression I believe I believe it to its what's crazy and then you see someone like Kylie Jenner who transforms herself literally from an ugly duckling to a beautiful Swan and it's all done through the night since it's crazy well that's the end of this thing called the chewed pedicle where he would take skin and he would basically created tube and he can place it somewhere on the face for the defect was in the blood supply would make it attached and good the incredible job

► 01:16:29

it really is I'm not joking the final product down there that incredible when you think about what these guys went through to my book is starting on with this guy named Pierce eclair who shot for both cheeks and in his face is just blowing off and to get off the battlefield was have to struggle because if your face is blowing off most of the time the stretcher bearers will just pass you off because they think you're going to die but it was a survivable wound it so just getting off the battlefield you know so you sit there for 12 hours did you can't eat a lot of these guys die because well intending nurses would lay them down and if you don't have a job your tongue slip back into your throat and choke

► 01:17:29

it's in Britain during the war that there was a battle and then you have to go through all these painful operations and so I want to look at that and then of course like how does that become what we do today but equally I always tell people that botched is one form of plastic surgery but of course there's a lot of important surgeons doing reconstructive work you know and now we have to find someone who's had a face transplant but there's been quite a few people to donate their organs as it is the think about a space is so personal and the last one National Geographic spread on it and I'm in a moment of rage in about 3 years later and the donor face I think with someone who is in their 30s

► 01:18:29

this person have died I think of an overdose and then the family decided to give this face over so it's it's actually incredible what we can do when you think about you know from the battlefields of World War One to Gilley's due to where we are to stay with facial reconstruction and it's just going to get better and better and better and for people with disfiguring injuries and thinks it's fantastic what would freaks me out about botched is the psychological aspect of people constantly tinkering with their looks it's just another thing we're all becoming more and more insecure I think with social media and nothing is real pictures aren't real doctoring their photos to make themselves look different than they actually do look and then people see those

► 01:19:29

woman is friends with my wife her neighbor is a model and she takes all of her photos with no makeup on and then they put the makeup on her yeah they do it all through Photoshop so she take photos with no makeup and then they add the blush and eyeshadow and honest and I want to go down this road in this conversation by think we're preparing herself for a time where nothing is real I mean if I think you're preparing ourselves for a time where we live inside some sort of a simulation Freddy's like yourself have to really think about how your images used after you're gone as well now it's something that you didn't have to think about so there was a commercial with Audrey Hepburn in Britain and she's it's a

► 01:20:29

Galaxy chocolate commercial and she's there and it looks like she's eating a chocolate bar and see the ways that they can manipulate images and and I think for the first time a lot of celebrities need to really think carefully about whether they're okay with her images being used in certain kinds of ways after their death like who owns your image it's just like when you look at medical history in the past you don't own your body and so a lot of be surgeons get hold of these bodies to dissect and they're digging them up from from graveyards there were Body Snatchers they called themselves Resurrection then and they would go into the cemetery and they would oftentimes stripped the body naked because it was it was illegal to steal possessions from the corpse but not the body itself because there was no there was no concept of the body being sort of property so they would throw the clothes back into the grave and they were really clever in the way they did it they usually sent a woman in the daytime to to masquerade as a mourner and she would kind of go through the graveyard and she would see

► 01:21:29

the fresh Graves were because of course you'd want the body to be as fresh as possible and then at night time they would go in there and they would pick up these bodies and they could take as many as twelve bodies in a night like hard labor and it was very lucrative because the only legal bodies to dissect in Britain in the early 19th century War bodies of executed criminals of people who have murdered other people so so if we went to the like to say goodbye to your nana and drop some flowers on a grave and is just a big hole in the ground

► 01:22:03

stories of people finding out that a body 1785 on this person goes to this graveyard and discovers that a body is missing their body has been snatched and everybody in the village ghost is Graveyard he digs up their relatives and drags and coughing back to their home until they can make the cemetery safer so yesterday on Twitter I put up a picture of something called the cemetery gone so they had these devices they would put at the foot of the grave and it had like a tripwire and so you could set up the gun to shoot anybody to protect the bodies but they also had a look at their Instagram for your Twitter feeds Cemetery gun 19th century protect against body

► 01:23:03

mattress that is so crazy to Muscat to fight like an iron wall it was it was a caller and they would nail it to the bottom of the coffin so that way it's what a body stature would typically do is just open the foot of the Grave you wouldn't dig up the whole grade smash open the lid and you have instruments to kind of dragged the body out if the corpses nailed to the bottom of the coffin you don't have a lot of trouble dragging a body out so people you know what they did all kinds they put these cages over the over the graves to protect them so people the internet God blessed us will stay to protect against to keep vampires from coming out of it had nothing to do with that or zombies it was to prevent body snatchers from getting a hold of those corpses but you know those bodies

► 01:24:03

they were calls oh my God a lot in Britain and there they were people are very paranoid about this I mean you can find a lot exam examples of this lot and thank God they were on some level right because think about how much we learn from these bodies bodies were needed to be dissected to teach medical students and one of the scene in the book I talk about the dead house to call the dead house and everybody had a different experience in that house is probably people listening who have been in the dissection room and you have a really vivid memory of that it's probably clinical these places the bodies would have been floated and partly decompose dissecting bodies with dangerous because you could cut yourself and you can in fact yourself with bacteria they weren't wearing gloves and so you get examples of people cutting themselves and dying within 48 hours so going into medicine was dangerous and there's a story in this book about

► 01:25:03

a guy goes into the the dad house for the first time and he freaks out and he sees all these like mice and rats and things like that in the body jumps out the window and runs off but later he becomes accustomed to it as we all become accustomed to horrible things at some point little starving creatures that are stupid if you want to go on that houses is particular it would have smelled dissection would have would have been a winter sport because the bodies wouldn't decomposes quickly you course when my dad is acting summer and they literally have seasons for winter jackets and do it in a cold

► 01:26:03

they had a fireplace at the end of the room as well make a really stuffy and smelly and you couldn't really predict what a person and this is before bath vaccinations this is before antibiotics and so a lot of doctors or medical students died as a result of going into the profession are they getting these corpses the people that died a lot of people think I'm which is incredible so it's it's one of those ones the other it's unbelievably bad children

► 01:27:03

common it was very common it was it was very Spirit as well because it was so disfiguring and so if you were for instance a wealthy woman and you got smallpox nearest scarred your family might worry that they couldn't marry you off so you know it was one of those diseases that left its mark on you literally and it also had a high mortality rate as well but it wasn't like chicken pox know my TSA well it's just one of those things that we're so thankful that people have figured out how to get rid of something stuck scene was invented in the 18th century most people don't know it's it's that old on Dr 19th century hundred thousand people turned out to March and Britain against Jenner people thought that on their children would turn into cows because he use cowpox the virus cowpox to bastogne

► 01:28:03

and so there was this huge fear that you know it was dirty to kind of insert this animal virus into people and so there's a big protest a hundred thousand people to protest the fact that six parents have been jailed for not vaccinating their children and so the stories is much older than we think and the fear is that we have about vaccines or not that's a similar to what people worried about in the past as well which end is it in in incredible figure that is incredible when you stop and think about the fact that this is still going on today with the internet with all the it mean you can find out I mean I had dr. Peter hotez on recently to talk about vaccines and the misconceptions of people have and he explained that they isolated a bunch of different environmental factors that are in jeans that contribute to autism but that are all takes place in the womb I want to hear that

► 01:29:03

confirmation bias is the real danger the people get around actually harder to get that message out a lot of cartoons of folks returning the cows the cartoonist my new husband is hurting us and so it's like it's this way of this powerful way of kind of contain images and fears and stuff and vaccines for a long time but Edward Jenner coming up with his vaccine undoubtedly saved millions of people slides it's so amazing that that's the problem is still around today you would even with all the information that we have available a Fox News newscaster who recently said that he doesn't wash his hands because he can't see germs I don't know who it was you was joking hopefully you said the next day

► 01:30:02

I always tell people you know it is hard to convince people and with Worcestershire you know what you think about it and killing your patience and trust me I have this really weird instrument called a microscope and I can see them and it was a leap of faith he was also accusing the older surgeons of inadvertently killing their patients because if they weren't leading to higher mortality rates so they probably fought against it as well it's not like you know the movie moment unfortunately where it just happens all at once and it takes quite a long time and it takes so long because if you think about him coming in 1876 to America's after the Civil War people were dying soldiers were dying of high infection rate they were packing wounds with mud

► 01:31:02

he comes to Philadelphia to convince the medical community and speak with him on the first day and then he gets up and he he does his demonstrations and he starts to slowly change people's minds but it takes the cover of the of the American book is on the American version I should say is a famous painting by hope you can see that by Samuel gross call the Gross Clinic the guy in the middle is gross as well but the guy in the middle of Samuel gross and he's so didn't believe in Worcester that he would walk into the room and he slammed the door he stayed there Mr lister's dreams can't get anymore and you can see in this that he's stick he's wearing his street clothes he's sticking his Dirty Fingers into this wound and there's a woman in the background and she's covering her face and she's the mother of the patients and she's wearing black because she expects her son to die so that us cover and for the UK cover I think I sent that to you Jamie

► 01:32:03

it's so I sent you a picture of both Cobra side by side it's another painting by eakins and it was done within 10 years and it's called the Agnew clinic and it's totally different because the doctors are wearing there's a sense of the understand there's a sense of antisepsis being use there so that kind of before and after shot in such a short period that lister's able to change the world what made you choose a different covers for the UK and the US version that's actually writers don't go there you go so you can see what it looks like appearing in the operating Theatre professionally as nurses this is after the Florence Nightingale Revolution as well so it still looks different the way we operate but you can definitely see a difference between those two paintings do you refresh my memory in the Florence Nightingale Revolution

► 01:33:03

even germs At first she thought was her was quite hysterical with his idea of germs but she was working towards sanitation in hospital so they're working towards the same goal but just with different slightly different tactics she revolutionizes nursing on to make it more respectable profession before then nurses you wouldn't want your daughter becoming a nurse if you were from a well-respected family because it was she would be pretty to the male body so you wouldn't want her interacting with male patients so really kind of lowly poor women went into nursing and it wasn't really a respected profession until Florence Nightingale comes along and there's a sort of Revolution so the revolution is not just about the professional but it's about the sanitation reforms that she brings about in hospitals so you see that on the cover as well but there's there's also another guy I'm sure there's like I can I always like soda predicts comments I shouldn't think about you know what people going to stay but people tend to get mad when I give lectures cuz I don't

► 01:34:03

talk about this guy there that there's groupies out there that love dispositioning semmelweis and I do talk about him in the book a little bit so some of us was this season I called because every time I get a talk there's always one person passes question and I have to spell myself and I'm like I hear it is and they say why I think you'll find Austria and he was putting his idea to gather that if you wash your hands and you go into the hospital Wards infection rates went down and they called he was ridiculed heavily to call them the hand washer and he ends up being put in insane asylum it's really kind of sad weird. That he has and and he's really sort of persecuted for these ideas of hand-washing and an infection rate keeps doing it a little bit before Lister comes onto the scene blisters not aware of some of Isis work but equally I always tell people that some of us doesn't really do it first if we if we

► 01:35:03

can play that game because again there's a difference between the basic sanitation and then understanding why you're implementing it so until you understand that germs exist it doesn't make sense you can't really convince people and that's where Lister comes in he takes Louis Pasteur's germ Theory and he's able to convince people in the medical community that germs exist so until we understand you know again why wash your hands they're just going to get dirty

► 01:35:28

that's amazing so we can why did you have two different covers

► 01:35:33

it's so with the publisher just picks whatever colors they want basically on some why don't we use the second eakins painting so that they're in conversation with one another so I like that image of that guy wearing street clothes is too smart to take this this image was wondering if you knew what this might be this is so it's a circular metal metal Contraption with teeth on the inside or just what is that this is called a penis this is an Ethics hearing anti-masturbation device

► 01:36:33

what happen if it's the person got an erection it would clamp down and obviously kill erection pretty quickly basically similar to work like the one in the screen it has so these they were trying why are they trying to get people to stop masturbating with masturbation probably a lot of people out there who know that dr. Chris Ryan so funny hahaha can a horrifying way Kellogg was with obsessed with with masturbation he thought that a lot of his patients were suffering from all kinds of mental ailments and physical ailments because and he thought that a diet Blandon Blandon fire in the belly and so he invented

► 01:37:33

his brother was the one who commercialized in his books like she had sugar and thought it was like masturbating all the time with the delicious sugar added in the did that yeah that's hilarious now so that's not original your son and Heir is becoming a dirty little self abuser stop all contemptible is this an actual text from you don't have a job it I don't 13 cocklane I doubt it. But there is stop all contemptible onanism what is onanism with the infallible and modestly priced

► 01:38:33

jugum penis soap Victorian era to think about it it's a Victorian Obsession cuz it it becomes more and more accepted idea in medical terms but there's another one I sent you Jamie I think the sort of like looks like a flaccid penis is another one you supposed to pee out of that has holes at the end of it just smelled like

► 01:39:31

oh Christ look at that ball at the bottom with the hook. That seem super uncomfortable is where is that that thing sits in between your legs so must be like a hook where you could strap strap that's like a Thai steel cup and the good news is Ron is a hilarious comedian so we're all good redo the entire show just with Ron and gift

► 01:40:06

objects behind and soap with so gross affect you to pee out of a spaghetti strainer at the end of it

► 01:40:18

Joe Rogan and that's going to stimulate the conversation with men is an issue they thought that it was causing all these ailments they thought it was causing all these different problems with all so obsessed with Reformation just how long until he created this sort of dry tasteless biscuit little did he know that someone is that s'mores and make it pretty fucking awesome

► 01:40:54

add marshmallows and chocolate to the people didn't most people have no idea that that was the origin of the stuff background and wasn't there a medical background in the term hysterical that hysterical was related to women

► 01:41:34

which would move around the body and mind to things too kind of like they're gonna don't worry about it they're coming in droves but there was there was a time where women would go to the doctor to get stimulated as well right is that true or is that I think it's been proven to be false actually there was I believe and I could be wrong on this that there was a Victorian idea that a woman had to orgasm in order to become pregnant yes so that was that was an important part of it I wasn't just a Victorian thing I'm pretty sure they taught me that in high school I'm pretty yes

► 01:42:34

which part of the ideas is part of the male orgasming inside the woman was what led to her having an orgasm which was led to her getting pregnant

► 01:42:46

might have completely remember this incorrectly Again by 15 at the time

► 01:42:54

up-to-date with with all the crazy stuff going on over here but I think there was like a senator who said this woman had to like orgasm undermining the idea that you couldn't be ready yeah I think it was like in the last year right now

► 01:43:22

play I really do remember I mean I have this weird vague memory that that was the way that it's too weird when it's like a really Big Toria school I went to a place called Newton south suburb of Boston really nice cool nothing wrong with it not sure if that was weird they did smack her hands so it caught us masturbated so why were people so obsessed with that while there was hope self-pleasuring of pianos

► 01:44:22

chairs and stuff like that there might be more bullshit that I remember but I really do remember something like this before I just remember where it was one of the things he talked about during one of his his speeches that it's right we did we did fact check that the past is really different from actually the last thing I want to show you what is that and so that the ideas was at the doctor could diagnose you according to the color of your urine spoiler alert if your urine is black you're probably in big trouble with rhabdo

► 01:45:22

agent just dumb look at the color they tasted the urine as well as sweet as they're actually diagnosing doctors with your own practitioners would take her in and put it into and they could tell your future and I think they should bring that back like you don't the end of your check by insurance but you know if they test your urine and you're totally dehydrated and there's blood in there like yeah bro you set image in the the the the whole circle that the center circle like that this a guy is the doctor holding the flask is that the doctor

► 01:46:22

wine taster what does swishing around and cut through images in that image of a doctor holding the flask sort of the predominant image of a physician often to a certain. Now it's sort of like the stethoscope ask you stupid are you're in flask in a doctor's pole barber pole used to calm His prophets cuz they tell your fortune you tear your insides of my God yeah we stress problems are basing it on something

► 01:47:13

get out of the doctor holding a flask doing he looks like you guys got a head injury in the doctors check the stress when's the next what's going on there have a drama in the shop and it would get louder as it got closer oh my God I'm sexual disease could of course everybody had at least it was so this is so everybody should have lost their noses

► 01:48:13

you probably don't

► 01:48:16

something you probably don't know about that image of syphilis that I sent your bookie manager Matt Staggs I said send these images to Jamie and don't tell him and the image that the guy has holes in his scalp as well as head

► 01:48:50

so you could just cover that with a hat guess it was incredibly painful and Al Capone had syphilis and so you lost your mind brain it was really nice to people today you know I'll show you images on my Instagram or Twitter and people be like wow I didn't know if it was so bad you know that store right now I got something for you when it was I forget some Noble person got syphilis and started wearing wig and when they started wearing wigs other people started emulating them because they were the celebrities of the Kingdom syphilis make your hair fall out as well be your fault your teeth fall out and so the more wealthy were the bigger and taller your wig would be that where is where the

► 01:49:50

bigwigs comes from vigorous my husband illustrated book called the blank is that as it's sort of like an eighteenth-century newspaper and adds a newspaper moves on the women would have to sit at the bottom of the carriage because their wigs were so high in some cases on women have syphilis syphilis in the 19th century that they had no nose clogs so if you wrote those gutters it was awful and actually one of the boys club riders in London

► 01:50:50

vestidos de grados and they were top hats and underwear pull up the thing about big words so I can show her that man didn't but that's an early form of rhinoplasty and you have to stay in that position for weeks while that grafted I believe this weekend was used for people just listening there's a slice off of his arm that's connected to his nose and they have taped and strapped his arm to hit the top of his head so he should stay in this position while his the trunk of his arm grows into his face and then they're going to cut it and remove it when it develops own blood supply oh my God

► 01:51:50

Sunday better off with no nose all the way to the 19th century in a bunch of people died when the night-light fifteen hundred year flood people with patchy hair loss I'm going to go to the actual the who it was it what what yeah so these noblemen they're all gross disgusting people STDs what is the name of the guy on hold on don't scroll go back up here it

► 01:52:33

yeah okay there it is. Louis XIV only 17 is mobstar thing where the ball is my daughter's reputation Louis hired 48 wig makers to save his image 5 years later can go is so but if you scroll down yes both men likely had syphilis so this is what started it all out that's so bizarre mean everything spell Sprite have no one's washing themselves they don't know what germs are they have syphilis

► 01:53:07

beautiful. Now it would wear such assholes with that then they chose me crazy with people want a pretended yeah look there are terrible things about life today they're absolutely this is the best time to be alive ever yeah people say on is this the best time medical and it's like that's always true right-of-way tomorrow and everything I mean we shouldn't look at science and medicine is totally linear like that we're progressing towards something but that you know obviously we're learning from what doesn't work and like that's why I said failure is a huge part of what I love to talk about on YouTube and stuff because we just don't talk about it enough and will Lindsey thank you and thank you for writing is awesome book and thank you for your amazing Twitter feed I'm I've been spending many many many moments freaking the fuck out reading your

► 01:54:07

stop and wash your images and I'm really happy to come down here and share all the stuff with us to get ahold of you on Instagram how they going to check out your feed Instagram and dr. Lindsey fit send on Twitter and under the knife on YouTube and the book is the butchering art and get it on Amazon I really love it if you bought it at a job thank you so much Lindsay thank you everybody

► 01:54:37

that's one of those shows folks were you probably should at least go to some of it on the YouTube even if you're like your iTunes viewer or listener that didn't make any sense to go and check you to just to see some of this shit cuz it was fucking nuts that bird mask

► 01:54:54

people to get over the plague or get past the plague

► 01:55:00

anyway thanks to Lindsay and thank you to our sponsors thank you to Squarespace go to squarespace.com / Joe for free trial day when you're ready to launch UC offer code Jo to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain so that squarespace.com Joe for a free trial then use the offer code Joe again it is the host of Joe Rogan. Com we will use them cuz they're awesome really does work is great TZ folks right that's what you wanted this beautiful world we are also brought to you by Teeter inversion tables folks inversion therapy it's been around for a while then they've sold more than 3 million people

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