#1297 - Phil Demers

May 15, 2019

Phil Demers is a former professional marine mammal trainer and employee at Marineland in Canada. http://savesmooshi.com

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Rak Ute n.com rakitin.com Tada all right folks my guest today has been on the podcast several times and in my opinion he is a person that is truly working hard not just for himself but also for an incredibly important cause and that cause is captive marine mammals he's been embroiled in a lawsuit with marine land in Canada where he used to work for more than more than six years now and

I can't say enough good things about this guy I really can't and when what he's done and what he's exposed and because of him a lot of people better understand what dolphin and orca captivity and walrus captivity is really about please give it up for my friend mr. Phil demurs

The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast

what you got there was that bit legal marijuana and your hands you want a closer look you activist you such a radical man the streets are not safe when I'm out on the loose radical seemed like a regular guy yeah yeah regular guy with a irregular amount of stress with the walrus right there do you don't mind my putting it there no no not happy to come back and see it no it stays on the desk at things this means as much to us as anybody except for you well it's nice to see it this is my this is my happy place this is my safe place I got to travel across the country to be safe but it's certainly a pleasure to be here again enjoy always have to thank you listen brother I thank you to I was texting Whitney today I said you're a hero you're a legitimate hero for people don't know what this is all about I'll give everybody the back story Phil used to work at Marineland he was an orca trainer and he also trained well

us name Smoochy Smoochy is still allegedly in captivity at Marineland all those no photographic evidence but you pretty sure she's still there I was told that she is still there and she's in good shape and I'm hanging on to that since you came on the podcast the first time which was how many years ago no so six years ago I think I got here thousand thirteen so he's been living this lawsuit life for six years trapped in a lawsuit with a gigantic Corporation with Incredible amounts of money that's been trying to crush him and they've made up stuff well tell me what's happened you give give me your perspective on how it all went so back in 2012 I made I was forced to make a very difficult decision I elected to speak out against the conditions of which Marine lands animals were living in I did so knowing the risks

knowing that Marineland was a litigious company but I did so on account of the fact that the animals were suffering incredibly

before quitting I had an agreement with Marineland that look I'm leaving this is long before I spoke I'd spoken up I'm leaving but you know we have to establish that can maintain this relationship with the walrus because I imprinted on her it's important to stress that that she thinks I'm her mom as she was a baby she was a baby when she came in so she was wild caught and you can imagine probably witnessed her mother get slaughtered that's the that's the method of collecting babies by the cabaye the captors in Russia and so she comes in traumatic at the age of we estimate about 18 months of age which is pretty old in fact for in our experience a Marine Lines experience of acquiring these wild caught baby walruses and through a sort of traumatic experience with her that I was there with her this anomalous thing happened where her brain circuitry opened up and much like in the wild where in the case of herd animals the babies become familiar with the mothers sound sent look everything all the senses are acute they're aware

of who they are where they are so that they can find each other amidst these thousands of animals well this happened to her so the brain circuitry opens suddenly I'm imprinted on her I wasn't prepared to leave Marineland unless it was of the understanding that I can continue to help her because historically my relationship with her had everything to do with her health and well-being

I quit with the understanding with Marineland this was to be the case I'd been gone for a month I come back unannounced they don't want to let me in there hiding something I get in I see her she's in terrible shape

I snap a few photos I leave now amidst this me see terrible shape what do you mean she was emaciated she was bone-dry she hadn't eaten in the my having been gone a month was the longest she and I've ever actually been physically part I've been trying to wean my presence off of her so that other trainers could be able to maintain a healthy healthy diet for Healthy Lifestyles she was emaciated because she wasn't eating because the stress I wasn't there for that month I can't say but she was certainly not eating she was super skinny they had heard of course on a bunch of drugs which include psychotics Valium antidepressants I when I saw her my jaw hit the floor it's important to note that during this some newspapers had been calling they wanted to know why I quit if we back up a little bit it should be noted that in 2007 my relationship with sushi sort of took off in the early sort of Internet viral days and whatnot we made front page of like CNN and Jimmy Kimmel did a piece and

so there was sort of that backstory of the and I guess you would call it a Fluff celebrity type thing but nonetheless my having left started people start ask questions I started feeling calls from this newspaper who's looking who's keen on doing an investigation of Marineland so I wasn't going to participate I had no interest again stressing Marine Lines litigious history and also look I've got this relationship with a walrus that I sort of have to maintain I have to have to keep this relationship with Marineland healthy enough so once I realized they weren't holding out of that end of the bargain you know the Panic sets in I'm a first-time Mom it should be stressed so I basically call the newspapers and I said you put my face my name on it doesn't matter you just print it let's go let's go let's get the story out story gets out well Marineland as expected starts their lawsuits they it's like a it's almost like a scorched Earth they take a scorched Earth

sort of method in this was when the original owner was alive yes yes no longer alive he died he died last year in June in fact so years into this litigation so they sued me they sued me for a million five they shoot my girlfriend they sued other activists they sued newspapers they they're suing everybody the mistake they made is in all of their absurd allegations that they've yet six and a half years into into litigation yet to prove any of it they cannot it's never going to happen it doesn't exist it's a fictitious lawsuit it's full of lies and bullshit bottom line the mistake they made as they sued me for plotting to steal smooshy

that's where the headlines take off and on they also called me the Kanye West of animal training yeah I remember we went I got your attention on the internet no no no that's not how you got my attention I sent you a tweet I said yeah but the Kanye West part didn't get might well no you said they called you the Tweet was I said joke you just say when I booked a flight to come to La I sent you the link to the to the story the headline was Kanye West of animal training being sued for plotting to steal a walrus you wrote they called you though what and then yes live in the d-ends and said dude if you ever now lasted you just say when well I started reading the story when I started I've you know I wrote a piece a long time ago on my blog and I talked about it in one of my comedy specials that I had a crazy experience with dolphins once when I was really really high and I had this

that means it sounds silly to even talk about but I almost feel like I kind of understood that they're like us but they just don't alter their environment where I realized like when they were playing with us when they were jumping by the boat and they were looking at you they're looking at you while they were jumping around with the boat and I was like they're playing and they're looking at you like a person would like a water person interacting they're almost a language at this point there's some level of bridged Gap in the communication when you get to see that they're expressing themselves in interest in you and whatnot in scoping you when you get really close and establish a relationship with these animals that's when things start getting real squirrely because you start to find that happy medium language and now all of a sudden you are starting to sort of speak so to say yeah why I started getting really weird feelings about SeaWorld and an animal captivity like this why do we need that in this day and age like this isn't the dark

just we shouldn't be putting whales and orcas and dolphins putting them in these tanks these fucking water fit swimming pools their fucking swimming pools and you have these things that are probably a smart as us and some different way like we're so prejudiced in that we only think of intelligence as something that can manipulate its environment that's our problem like we're like look at them they're bitch-ass World they don't have any houses they can't write a letter they're fucking stupid man stop it they're stupid but the Dolphins apparently have a cerebral cortex at some something around 40% larger than a human beings they have super complex languages their emotional intelligence is the mystery and it appears that it's far beyond anything we ourselves can understand as same as or cos they've got that they've got another part of the brain in the front which is the its function in that the front of the the cerebral cortex that function is to as for communication and for and for it and it

hence their emotional capacity to a point where we don't really know the depth of which they are the power of their emotion but we know that they stay with their families for their lifetimes the males born from from the mothers will rarely leave the mother's side quite literally the distance of an orca itself the only time that mail will go on is when it's matured it will go to procreate and then back to the mother and it will live it's entire life as such and the sad fact about that is in my experience working with male orcas caught from the one of which cut from the wild a big bull Orca is he's a mama's boy you can see something was missing he was traumatized from something and of course even myself as a regarded whale expert in the capacity of working out of frickin place like Marineland even I would have never known this information when I started this that's not information that was available to us back and I started in 2000 it makes sense now this animals traumatized from birth these his will to live is just gone

it's and the mail it appears to me and in my experience the male sex of well I've worked with seals I've worked with sea lions I've worked with walruses dolphins belugas and orcas all of them die younger the male's die younger and I think definitely in the orcas and the Dolphins cases is they just don't have that will to live without that strong maternal figure in their life this is what I try to explain to people but don't see it and they think that the Dolphins get treated well with orcas get treated well this is what it majan if someone stole your son and put him in an air box at the bottom of the ocean and dolphins and whales and fish just came by and stared at them imagine and he lives his life like that with no contact other than with his his dolphin handlers or whoever's taking care of him and he just

Love's in this box missing his family missing his loved ones missing his life confused lost and with with a language that is especially with orcas and dolphins they have a language it's so complex we haven't been able to really decipher it we don't understand how it works you know John Lilly spent they spent I think decades working on trying to get Dolphins to speak human noises he had a bunch of studies that he did and he even had a nicer it's a crazy story I'm sure you've heard it oh I'm the woman who lived with the dolphin she try to establish a relationship with the dolphin where she they made an apartment that was half underwater but the dolphin always wanted to fuck so she just jerked the dolphin off and when she jerked the dolphin off that was the only thing that come down and then she could do her work so for her it was just like a technicality I just got a jerk this dolphin off it's an animal it wants to be rubbed all the moral stuff that's attached to that

all in my own head she's like I'm just going to be a scientist and there were like Kosh get that fucked what if they were also injecting ketamine into the Dolphins or something I do not know if they were doing that in two dolphins but I do know that they did some experiments with LSD and that John Lilly who was one of my personal Heroes he's the creator of the floatation tank this is all John Lilly stuff he was a Pioneer in interspecies communication he would take acid and think that he was communicating with dolphins did you know you're on the cover of one of his books what yes we talking about your face is I mean it's it's a spitting image on in one of his books of went to Lily's books yeah do this have to look this up maybe this Superior single time traveler shit dude it's it there they are I was I'm not you man I'm sorry I was like that's fucking weird man that's fucking weird yeah wow so that's program can't read that what does it say something that Human bio-computer by oh yeah

I didn't read that one I read the Deep self though the Deep South is really interesting and the Deep self I think the Deep self is the one that also has diagrams on how to build a tank he was trying to get people to build tanks he was like listen man I found some shit out you got to try this the last time I was here not the last time two times ago you actually sent me to crash yeah man crash about to crash at the float lab yeah and he and I thought I'd be in there for an hour turns I was in there for a couple and when I came out I'm like did I was waiting for the knock is just like oh no man she's let you stay in there like oh shit I'm looking at the time on crashes elected legit hippie yeah oh yeah oh yeah he's great he's great he's the mad scientist behind float lab yeah that's why those things are so well engineered when I met him I was like what was like cuz I tanks before that when I I I first got a tank in like 2002 somewhere around then 2002 2003 and it was

it was great but it was like it would break things would go wrong it flooded my basement it was like there was disasters it wasn't and then my friend who was a tank technician there's actually tank technicians he said listen got to get check out this guy in Venice so some mad scientist down there in Venice was just making me super over-engineered float tanks and he was they look like walking meat lockers right I was like what and then you have hot you had like a pod install had it was a very good tank it's just that it just it wasn't as well constructed also wasn't nearly as expensive just went the distance he went the distance and he still keeps it keeps coming over here I've got to change things about it we're upgrading we're doing anything he's always Grim how we can enhance the experience for everyone yeah he's always trying to make it better he's the front of the line and when I first started working with him like when I first started having them on the podcast and and I hired him to build me a tank and I'll let you has like there was no tanks it was

real rare that you'd find tank centers now they're fucking everywhere man they're everywhere say this the experience I had in his tank versus the one that I'd is a local place from where where I'm from was hands down a different yeah that's because he really isolates you there whereas these this was like a pod that they bought and installed in a room I mean it was great well his super insulated so there's no fucking noise getting in that thing he gave you the tour of the whole backstage to it was all back to check that shit out is like 12 right yes he's got a serious complex there it's hard to appreciate but when he first started making tanks like that which like again I think I bought one of his tanks in 2005 I think somewhere around then dude it was there was no one making anything like that he was he's making these super high-end crazy fucking double wall insulated tanks and you get in there it's just yeah just nothing and you just you just get taken into the this and it's a good place to think

out the subject that we're talking about today we got to stop doing that with dolphins orcas it's going to be thought of the same way we think about slavery today it's her that it's horrific we can understand that we can't believe that compassionate human beings would be willing to isolate members of a super social highly intelligent animal species and just put them in swimming pools it's fucking barbaric it's crazy it's tortured zits what's sad here is you know we're years removed from the documentary Blackfish yeah and you know that was really impactful I mean arguably responsible for the paradigm shift that we're that we're experiencing here in North America and other places of course but maybe it's time for people to revisit it I know SeaWorld their stock is and their value sort of going up now granted they you know they change their numbers they skew it they have free beer day they pump the numbers up you know they have all these different promotions whatever I mean everything that comes out of these these facilities these assume it to be all bullshit by the

it's all bullshit but not enough people questioned them on it but as we speak while we're a bit sort of a paradigm shift here and I mean I can speak to it because I mean I'm very happy to say that we have very effectively decimated Marineland and we'll talk more about that but over in China this is now a burgeoning business and I did we discuss this a year and a half ago and it's tenfold now it's happening very quickly and I'm sure you're familiar with the whale jail situation in Russia have you seen that no I'm not they've got enclosed in this Bay they've got over a hundred wild-caught belugas and orcas so there's about 10 or because if I'm not mistaken and some activists flew a drone over it this got worldwide attention a lot of outcry a lot of Anger of course so what happened was Jimmy's show it to us right now for the folks that are listening and we're looking down at the what looks like swimming pools with I guess those are belugas those are all day

sold those are essentially sold and ready to go to China but on account of the fact that the activists got this and created a real world wide stink all the negative press that came of it they've now resolved that they want to try to well they've hard considered releases the governor in the area signed a intent to release agreement with the world Sankar with the whale Sanctuary project who sent a team to assess the animals health and whatnot and this is all of like three weeks ago is not a long time ago and they assessed at all these animals should be released it's a couple of issues there's a couple of things that that are becoming conflicting a it's going to require a lot of cost if it's done responsibly be it appears okay so what's happened is as we know Russia is not exactly a democratic environment only one person makes the decisions on account of What Becomes of these whales

whereas there was some PR stunts to say hey we're going to we want to release them we want to do this to sort of mitigate the global outrage the captors have propagandize this entire effort to free these whales as a means for the West to undermine the Russia's Russia's economy so the whale trade economy here's where Marineland comes into play in a theory at this point but it has these in very intense implications what we know about what Marineland is doing currently in their transition from

brilliantly successful business to virtually decimated thank you is there shipping their whales out we know two are going out if it's not this week it'll be very soon I'll be shocked if they're not out I'm in La so I can't say that it's happening right now I think it may be very well be happening this week they're going to Spain we know that five other permits have been requested to send these animals now to the states so it was that they're liquidating their the intent yeah they're going they're liquidating but the issue is if in fact Russia catches wind that Marineland is sent sending their whales

let's use the worst case scenario to China it validates

the Russian captors propaganda and concerns suddenly what we're concerned is going to happen is those animals suddenly Putin says forget it sell them ship them out that's that's a scenario but why would he do that because again the the captors a propaganda is that the West wants to Cripple the Russia's economy they're wild whale sale economy so if some Marineland is selling Wales to China from Canada then suddenly the captors have a point they'll say the Putin look they're selling wails why is it such an outrage that Russia is doing it when Marine Lance doing it mmm so there's that concern

the other one and this just came up with in the last 20 hours is it appears rather than go the most responsible route which we know is going to be a costly Endeavor but you know where game and we're ready is there now considering just dropping the Nets and saying see you later letting all the animals go here's what we suspect they're going to let the orcas go because they were captured illegally there's some gray area as to whether the beluga whales have been captured illegally or not so I think it'll probably start with the orcas rather than move them to where they were at the same time of year when they were captured so that they can be next to their their Trend transient pods or their their their their pods they just want to drop this this net and say see you later well that's as irresponsible as it can get but that's crazy it's like making someone a slave for how many years well let me here somewhere on the planet but

and their hope you can imagine would be OC it didn't work oh Jesus there's a lot of there's a this is a big issue we're on it there's a there's a great team of activists over there would it be accurate to say that maybe what these groups are doing right now is recognizing that there's probably gonna be some radical changes in the way these things are permitted what's legal what's not legal and what people are tolerating it's just not the same as it was ten years ago catch them and sell them as fast as you can yeah just get out while you can because it might come a point in time with not only could they not sell it but they might be responsible for doing exactly what you said and bringing it back to the area where it's family would be which would be an incredible cost and be an incredible cost it would be an undertaking unlike any other rescue that we know of and how much would something like that crossed I can't even imagine I mean I would be the wrong person to ask I can't put a figure on it I just know that it would take a lot of time

it would be a lot of dedicated I mean we would need a flat packs the pods yeah you'd have to figure it out so that would be able to bring the whales out I mean and you would have to be able to somehow another get it close enough to the other worlds without freaking them out it's a whole thing but it's possible I mean that's the important part fuck man the it's just one of those things that I really think as people are going to look back on we're going to go man how did we in 2019 not know that that was insane does that is not a chicken you know I'm saying I mean it's not like something you could just keep in a cage that's that it so let's back up to as you know at for well over four and a half years five years now I've been advocating for Bill S 2 or 3 which is a ban against which is a national can it kind of the wideband against whale and dolphin and porpoise captivity so that would include no more breeding no more importantly more export any of that okay during these this this by the way is going down as the longest bill ever researched in Canadian history

tree because it's been a lot of issues from opposition one senator in particular in fact and if I can have a moment to just give Senator Don plet a big ol I win you piece of shit which camera do I look at for that I win you piece of shit so I should be more humble but was that the other guy the literally fun no no this is the senator that has put every possible Block in front of the passage of this bill he's tried to kill it silently forever I mean this is an epic epic story we've had two as activists and the community at large and again I have to stress how much you've had a hand in this is I've had to read I've had to have these campaigns where we literally flood the Senate servers to the point of crashing it on that's on a couple of instances instances where they were going to kill the bill very silently through a sort of procedure he's got as a his role is a it's called the Senate whip so he's actually yields a lot of influence and power he creates the committee's where people do the studies and everything he sets the

the dates for the committee's I mean he had this thing studied for like 17 straight month it was absurd again at longest tenure in in Canadian legislative history it appears but this guy was doing his till he was kill it do you think that what do you think like why was he doing that

he's one of these guys who looks at this bill and he sees it as a activist sort of left-wing Liberty you know liberal sort of fluff Bill he doesn't see that it's necessary he went to Marineland as an invited guest he's very publicly declared his friendships for John holder I don't want to speculate as to whether there's been any money exchanges but I know he's certainly very interested in killing this bill and by virtue alone of activists pressuring and exposing all of his as efforts we actually save this bill on a number of occasions the most notable of which was just a few weeks ago we're in the House of Commons it appeared this bill was going to die and literally at the 11th hour I packed up we drove to Ottawa I had a tweet storm set up we put pressure on I tweeted individual senators or rather individual members of parliament and I promised them and you know this is a sensitive time in Canadian politics for Justin Trudeau leader of the of the

party I promised them if this bill dies on account of the fact that what was happening was the Liberals were going to propose amendments to the built less second that would send it back to the senate for further review at which point we know Don plate was waiting in line to kill it there was nothing we could do at this point this was going to be his to kill the fact that this was being facilitated by liberals was really an infuriating thing but nonetheless we applied an incredible amount of pressure I drove my eyes down there I got there and I stood in front of Every Which one of them and I look them all in the eyes I'm just like I'm going to make you famous I'm Gonna Make You Famous and I'm going to make you famous and I make you famous and I don't want to speculate if that's what if that's what saved the day although it was mentioned in the House of Commons that special interest pressured them at the last second but in a nail as illegal can you say that to someone I'm going to make you famous I think it's my most it's my most effective tool it's like a scene from like what's that

what was the cowboy movie where Val Kilmer played

Doc Holliday member Tombstone yeah sounds like a line in Tombstone right oh no you know what it's from the one with the Bon Jovi song you know those those you know shot down in a blaze of glory you know you know those those those cute guys in the it was in the 80s or 90s that are all like did a western movie together again yes that's it it's from that will make you famous oh shit sorry I knew I'd heard it from somewhere I think it's from that I'd hoped I'd hope that was my line but nonetheless whatever Emilio Estevez there's this is arguably the campus cheesiest of the cowboy movies

right is it the campy insist today I didn't see it I don't know if they're all handsome Devils sorry so I show up at Alicia literally they get the right before the meeting starts the entire committee stands up and leaves the room

what now we're there and we're prepared for this to die I'm there for a funeral

they come back in the conservative members of the committee proposed their amendments the Liberals which outweigh the the conservatives are they're all voting so they're just knocking these things down knocking them down knocking them down and then suddenly it comes to the Liberals time to propose their amendments first guy comes up and he says I'd like to withdraw my Amendment noted on the record sits down okay we'll go to number two

I'd like to withdraw my Amendment sits down number three like to withdraw my Amendment like holy shit I'm looking back you know I've got some we've got some people there that obviously with this of this with the same interests as me and yeah I don't even know exactly what's going on at this point I just know that their faces are indicative that this we might win this thing and the fourth member of parliament stands up he withdraws the amendment and we save this thing in the last second and I absolutely know it was a pressure campaign because like I said

I was going to come on this podcast I already had this date written for some time and this was going to have political implications that I don't know that the Liberal Party could have sustained it's a really bad time I think this came from the top down whereas efforts to kill it came from the bottom up this came from the top down you're not killing that bill I think people are understanding what dolphin captivity really is what Orchid captivity really is I think they're understanding that now and I think it's just one of those things that exist because it's always existed but if it didn't exist now there's no fucking way anybody would ever let you do it if there was no captive Dolphins orcas if someone just went around and kidnapped them with what scientists know now about their social structure and their community

do they are so complex the way they took they have fucking dialects right it's they have dialects orcas have they have they share languages in different regions and actually have a different accent of sorts I mean it's it's really remarkable stuff you're right it would be a global outrage if today I was day one they someone said hey look at this thing let's put this in this box I'm only because we have them already well because we have them in there some Legacy businesses that have been around for a long time that's a great way of putting it you know they have the means to fight they know now that look this is not going so well if you can you can see it in all the advertising these days SeaWorld almost rarely shows any orcas in their commercials although it seems the industry is sort of switching to baby walrus has in fact they're they're they're the new orcas they're sort of the new brandable cute yeah it really is it's happening all over happening in Canada as well the Vancouver Aquarium is running with it

same as SeaWorld if you go to their their Twitter it's you know I can't say that present day it's like literally the case today but yeah a lot of baby walrus stuff it's where it's going it's just they know that they can run with that at least for the time being what's crazy and all of this is here this bill is passing now we know it's going to pass its it should be it should get Royal assent come second week of June shy of some some catastrophe this thing will become law that's why Marineland is trying to get rid of these whales as quickly as they can they gotta get him out of here because at least now they can just walk sounds like to to export permits have been approved to the so to beluga whales are going to Spain

now granted that's being facilitated through the Vancouver Aquarium this becomes an ugly mess here because when it comes to zoos they're all part of these associations okay and these are these are industry voices anything that's if at any time you're told wow this is an a is that a accredited facility you know most schools for instance or general people say oh well it's a credit it's a good place no no what that means is these places facilitate animal transfers one not two other member facilities it's really just a club and this club protects the interests of these parks and keeps any type of oversight lack their Lobby groups basically so what's happened is now through the Vancouver Aquarium Marine lentsoe Marineland is sending these whales to Spain but they're claiming them to be Vancouver Aquarium whales which is not true they were never on these animals inventory or rather this facilities inventory list there's never been any knowledge of any of this but what's happened is because Vancouver Aquarium is accredited

and has an affiliation with the a said a so in Canada we call it Casa the Canadian Association of zoos and Aquariums and Marineland is is in fact not they no longer have their accreditation they did they didn't have the best of relationships shortly after all of our Revelations it's all just right now it's just the industry as a whole is breaking all of its own rules to facilitate getting these beluga whales Marina has 51 of them okay there's five born every year but they always have 51 and they don't they haven't shipped an orca out in nearly a decade at this point I mean you do the math that what's going on exactly so they're dying they're always have 51 they don't ship them anywhere else I can attest that yes when I was there and in my experience you don't have to watch my words because I know Marine lands lawyer Andrew Burns is listening hi Andrew I'll see you next week in my experience yeah you're for as many animals are born you're just about losing as many so you'll lose too

the ones you lose three young ones not all the ones that are boring to be successful just what half are so so what's happening now is the industry wants that bloodline there's 51 captive orcas whereas you know there's a lot of controversy and importing animals from other places the state's can't in fact they can't bring them in from Russia without a public consult period it might still be the case with Canada so actually the public might actually be consulted about the import of these five belugas that real and is seeking permit for it to export so that's something that certainly as activists level I'll be I'll be helping to guide towards the proper resolution but yeah that's all happening it is a race right now to to get rid of marine lens animals and

that is a wild time it's a wild time to be inside the doors at Marineland as I can imagine in the fences and it's a most wild time for me to be on the outside because I've never in the last six and a half years of litigation just of my advocacy and being sort of a you know basically being engaged in war with Marineland I've never seen them work harder to suppress me and to try to silence me than they are now

as breaking news just today Marineland had built this fence aptly named Phil's fence around the park and just today we found out they blocked it all out with tarps because come this Saturday May 18th and certainly I'm inviting everyone to come join me I'll be joining as an as a guest a big demonstration outside of Marineland and we're going to protest it as they are and as they're anticipating because on account of my coming on this show they worked very hard to try to keep me from a coming be speaking of anything see certainly not promoting this event so I certainly hope that this event is a well it's out of there trying to do that but because we're in litigation what happens in litigation is you come to a point where you start to negotiate and so

there's things that they want from me there's things they really want from me they want my silence

the problem is

they're never going to silence me it's not an option

I've said it before I'll say it again they can offer me a million dollars to shut up go away

it's not going to happen

I'm not going to delete my Twitter I'm not going to delete any of my tweets that have the word Marineland in them is this is a request these this is layers and layers and there have been layers of requests basically they'd hoped that I wouldn't come here they'd hope something could be worked out in our litigation we have so now I chased Marineland so back when Marine lands owner was still alive I put forth a huge campaign to try to get him to be examined legally by my lawyer much like I've had to sort of submit myself to but as these lawsuits and as litigation continues to reveal itself as just a perfect method of abuse you know that they're just the only resolve these things appear to serve is to exhaust

both parties and have them come together with a resolution so after six and a half years

Marineland seems intent on a resolution they don't want to go to examinations so while we were in so while I was there to be examined a couple weeks ago my lawyer said take a walk and the two lawyers began their talks we put off the examination because we believe there could be some good faith that could be shown between parties it became quite evident that it was not the case

and when we were to resume our examinations which was to be last week Marineland on account of the fact that I was coming on this show through an absolute tirade and said we are not doing this now bear in mind this is a court-ordered examination date I've got a trial coordinator who is trying to nudge this thing forward because I mean that's something that's that's a motion I had to win in the litigation itself is to try to get someone to look at this thing so that I can actually move forward like let's get someone to manage it so we're in case management so that case management judge has issued a very aggressive schedule it's in back in February we had a court date of which thank you very much I one handedly Marineland at to pick up just a little more than $12,000 of my legal bill which is really a on this particular Motion in this event kind of a drop in the pan but nonetheless a sound victory in court

you know we have a case conference call next week now I don't know where this stands because now Marina has breached the Court's order so we went they didn't show up to examination I got a fourth what's called a certificate of non-attendance it means the person that was supposed to be examined that they didn't show up Marine Lines owner John holder whose now passed away didn't show up to two of these examinations knowing full well that I have to pick up the 1,700 bucks to caught too just to be there to get the certificate and he's just not going to show up no big deal it doesn't seem to be any punitive damage at there and they I mean we're almost seven years into this thing and they're still like brutalizing me but we're at a point where they're actually in a very uncomfortable position of having to keep this thing if you don't want this litigation to be on the public record and transcripts and evidence and everything you have to stop it seems to me the court appeared to facilitate resolutions of that sort they like settlements

I was promised to trial on day one it's what kept me going they're lying about me they're lying about everything everything they're saying

and they're trying to exhaust you financially well of course they are I mean that's that's it so that the premise you countersuing them as well I'm countersuing the premise of my counter suit is so that they couldn't merely drop my lawsuit against me over a period of time and then that just be it and that I would I would then have to actually file a motion to get some cost back I'd be lucky to get 50 percent everything in the early days my lawyer said let's swim back and so we did I'm suing them for abuse of process they're using the Court's time resources they I mean even for that matter we can extend that to the police and other departments organizations they're exhausting these things as in bad faith they're doing it because they just want to try to basically they want to take away my right to free expression which is a Canadian chartered right I mean I'm protecting my own history him and this isn't sad I can't even believe that after six and a half years I'm still here at risk of being silenced that the fact that

I mean look full disclosure I'm out of money the last time I was on this show we raised I mean and again thank you so much 60 I'll maybe almost 70,000 a year and a half that's gone I spent my last penny last month it was a very aggressive last three months

do you have a go fund me I have a go fund me that's the information that's please what is it it's if you go to save smooshy.com Sav e SM oosh i.com you can go there there's a small documentary it's a little dated now but on account of the fact that legislation nothing's really moved forward in the lawsuit and the legislation is only just wrapping up it's still very current so please spend the 14 minutes to sort of appreciate the story more I guess you'll get a better more context to it there's you know some some footage in there some back backstage stuff some pretty you know it tells the tale quite well it's good piece yeah folks if you're if you're hearing this please help it out if you can you know Joe I say it all the time it's the thing I hate to do most is ask for help I understand me well your intentions are pure you know you really are a person who is going about this because you feel like you are uniquely qualified to talk about it you have the actual information you know what's wrong you know and you are part of the system

understand it better than anybody on the outside could they have my walrus and they have your walrus still we think and so when and so when in the litigation my lawyer says

well here's what Marine Lines prepared to offer I say to my lawyer but what about the walrus and he says to me do we talked about this is crazy you're not getting a walrus mmm

I said to Marineland

I don't want no money not a penny

I want the walrus there's two left three have died in the last it really in mere months secretly I find out what would you do with her I mean ideally what I would like is I just want to transfer it at this point to another facility I would love to see your transfer to the Vancouver Aquarium or there's a facility and Quebec as well I just want to be up a posse I just want to possibly be in her life if she needs me which we I mean there's a reason she's wanted to still alive if I would accommodate listen would you move to Vancouver if suddenly Dan Bilzerian gets on the horses feel like this well actually I oh wait there's a backstory to that to you actually got some beef with him inadvertently but we'll get back to that but you know if you were to suddenly say hey I got this Arctic beachfront home and do I'll buy you a walrus yeah move absolutely I mean she's got another ten years of her life do you know did you only one way out of artists to be with this walrus

play the music is there a better than this to the story I mean really it all sounds so crazy Joe but here sixty six and a half years ago I was like I want the walrus right suddenly here I am negotiating for a walrus call me crazy but so are they ruling to negotiate for the walrus is this actually in consideration yes yeah not without layers and layers and layers of compromise and but bear in mind

not in the capacity that I see it more of a yeah maybe maybe we won't send her to China House that maybe we'll send her somewhere and not deter that facility from you visiting maybe we could do that for you that's what I mean it's really bad faith negotiated the problem with the thing that I have a hard time dealing with is look we're in litigation and in litigation you have to exercise a certain amount of decorum and it's not exactly my strong point it's just not I find decorum to be just a thick layer of bullshit I just do yeah you want to hope that there's going to be some type of good faith negotiation II want that

Marineland negotiates with additional hostilities and threats it's not worked for them in six and a half years what makes you think it's going to work now so here I think we're going down a path of possibly good at good-faith negotiations the the owner the villain of the story is gone he's out of the picture the the new president who is the the Widow the wife is a wonderful woman I mean listen if I honestly and truly believe if the lawyer himself wasn't the controlling mind of the business now true he's got sort of facilitating the transfer of of of the business as it was to just being sold off piste off and distribute the wealth to the remaining family members I think that we could I think the story ends on a good note I mean I have no hostility oh I have every reason in the world to despise the man who sued me and I don't I don't even think about him it was never about that they made every case in the world every argument that this was personal between me and him and well that's because you look in the camera and say fuck you to people it's personal between me and Don play you bet your ass

a different story but you know what I'm saying did I make him famous well you've met in a way maybe so where do you stand right now well I don't know so next week we're having a case management the case managers going to talk and we're going to see what becomes of marine lands once again skipped examination it's so hard to believe this is still going on dude welcome to my from the from the time you first came on the podcast to now that this has been just as scratch and Claw every day of my life I live with this looming cloud of threat of like there's people out there that really want me I'm not talking physical threat okay they did they played their games you know I called every one of their Bluffs every at every corner of this thing but there's something about when you say they played their games but they sent goons to myhouse yeah there's video in fact that there's on that documentary you'll see these they send some tough guys I mean they were sending people

6:00 a.m. harassing my girlfriend was just taking the garbage out I mean it really got pretty intense but we stood our ground I was like this is not going to go down like this it's like you're fucking with the wrong guy dude like listen I come from a place called Welland Ontario I don't know that you're familiar with I'm going to assume not probably few people are unless you're an avid hockey fan because we have produced some pretty amazing NHL talent but you know this population of like 50,000 I'm a well endure I don't know any other end I'm Frenchman I mean it's probably another thing to stress but I don't know any other way to deal with things other than sort of fight it out you know you don't cower and run you don't you know you stare the threat especially when you're on the right side of things I'm not gonna sit there and take shit I'm not going to

it's not going to work for them to continuously try to threaten me because dude I'm invested and I'm not talking money I'm in on it's like a hostage situation it's how it started my only interest is ending the hostage situation that my only interest I should say that of course not I have interested in you know I've been advocating for the for bills and obviously advocating a letting people know they'll sort of taken the veil off the bullshit that the industry report feel like you're negotiating for a hostage in smooshy

there

they're using her as that type of Chip yeah that's their bark that's their bargaining chip that's what they got and they're keeping this constant pressure on you it's constant Financial threats constant like it my lawyer in fact and this is where it gets kind of weird because listen I don't understand he supposed to be representing me the answer is no to everything fight fight fight I want to trial he instead is coming with listen this is not how litigation ends feel like you don't seem to understand how this ends you don't have a grip of how little litigation work I'm just like I'm glad that I don't mix my guess is I representative about 90% of the population that don't know and it's important that we find out I was promised to trial because they said I was this this this this this well let's get to that fucking trial this is what I've been doing this doesn't end with negotiations I want the trial yeah I don't understand like what why would you sue me unless you want the trial oh because it's a bullshit lawsuit well then I want the trial because I need to show that I need that on my record I want that I want the truth they fucked with the wrong guy I hate to say it

I'm the owner of all the lawsuits they've launched and is launched in an excess of like 12 and threatened and and it's important to note I've been threatened and I'm constantly under threat of additional litigation and the only one left and the only lawsuit that's I'm the only person who hasn't had to compromise their free expression

it's too dirty secret about the legal business right that this is a loophole this is something people can do to people to silence them just to drag them through hell for six years maybe ten who knows how long this goes right and this is a case manager I mean I had to fight in court at Great expenditure to get this case management and if you put this up to the general public and have them look at what the actual facts are and had them look at what these people what their business is what they're actually doing it's game over it's game over it's a real problem for them the real problem is it's an indefensible activity

having those animals in swimming pools for people's enjoyment like but to follow that up with trying to crush people oh yeah Crush my fiscal sovereignty I mean look no there's nothing good on their side what they tried to do to you for what the business is like to operate in full sort of transparency because look I'm I guess I'm sort of sponsored by the public so I feel like a level of transparency in all this but you know I had a little bit of money I'd one TV show called Wipeout and I had 50,000 Canadian dollars tax-free in the bank which I sat on because I didn't know precisely what it is I was going to do with it I felt like there was potential of a rainy day around the corner

it took that in the first six months to six months to hire lawyers for everybody everyone was getting sued I was cutting a $5,000 retainers for going there's a purpose for this money I only have it because I got on the show because of my relationship with the walrus so I'm in for a good chunk of change here

it's crazy the length of which and the ability corporations have to destroy individuals the fact that the court is there to facilitate it is the precisely why I want to go to trial I've been told the figures are and please don't quote me I'd love the facts but I've been told that something in the area of like 90% of lawsuits get settled without going to Discovery Well I want to be I want to be the 10% or less I want it I want a resolution by the by the judge I can sleep at night if the judge says okay it ends with this Phil you get $50,000 of your at this point in excess of 200,000 in legal bills and Marineland you lost so you know you got to eat the shame and walk away I would assume be more comfortable with that then if Marineland said here's $100,000 don't talk about the I mean it let's say in the best case scenario they said here's a chunk of change this is let's just use $100,000 and said just don't talk about the terms of the settlement but other than that you

no impeded speech you can just be free I would be more comfortable with the judge's decision then that hundred K because then at least I know exactly what it is that I went through I had the world can find out what function these courts have and what their version of justices I mean I'm just still I'm trying not to be jaded because obviously it's a heavy load to carry as it in your day-to-day it's I've been on the cusp of crazy I'm thankful for plant medicine for sort of keeping me grounded and keep me in with the proper perspective but plant medicine listen to you hippie they do try to call me hippie a lot to understanding pretty little bit of a different version of hippie I suppose yeah I don't mind War well your your God cares about these marine mammals now walruses like my daughter due to some of the reason and I believe dress it but I know it was you consider that fact you're just like do that he's got they've got your daughter that's a mess

to put yourself in a perspective that if they had your dog your neighbors got your dog and is gonna unimpeded lie by your definition abusing or neglecting their life and you're there to just watch silently I mean that's disgusting that's a disgusting scenario this is the poison that I live with hmm I need I need a proper closure I'm relying on there being a level of justice so that one day I can live in this world without being just that old jaded dude look last time I was here it was not nearly as fucking gray like starting to feel the effects of long-term litigation you don't have a podcast to you I want to do a podcast I'm urged to do a podcast user Janu well people you know they just you know fill you with Chef pocket to a podcast you and I have a real simple thing for you to do I know I'm running on you got a lot to say in your great talker thanks Joe I appreciate that why don't you do it I am considering it people get mad at me that I keep suggesting the people get Podcast look stop bro stop

a you know you said to me when we were in Toronto at dinner you said you should be a comedian I said that I've heard that before comedian sure that's what I've heard you mention that on yeah number of times to a tattoo of said people well there's so few of us on there's more podcasters in there are comedians for sure because I'm close there's like I think this is more than 600,000 podcast now and iTunes so yeah there's not 600,000 Comics just like that's a big pool to wait in you know but I mean I'm in I mean if I did it would be up for my own purposes you know I would become this category's course and for someone new I guess you'd probably be in is conservation a category or Wildlife or something like that you know you would you would launch pretty quickly and it would be fascinating for people to have you ever heard like one of the really well produced NPR Podcast like the Dropout was it and did NPR do the drop out the one on Elizabeth Holmes and the theranos controversy the blood scanning stuff

anyway it's an amazing multi-part series that describes how these people made this phony blood testing technology and sold it and made millions of dollars in was there were worth valued at billions and now they're literally virtually worth nothing so as by ABC radio thats who did it Nightline that's what it was ABC News Nightline but something like that could if someone wanted to follow this and and document it from the beginning in a podcast form this is something that really could be like six one-hour episodes yeah if you were talking about your history with training or cos what you thought it was when you first got into when we went into that and several of the other episodes but think about this me you and I have talked now how many times you been on now this is my fourth okay so each time it's been like three hours so all those all those hours of discussion if someone you condense that into your

Dori I think it would be super compelling and then you could also update people on the case you could update people on the state of Marine Mammal captivity legislation and because there are countries that are right now waking up and realizing this is crazy like this is really almost like human slavery it's like finding aliens and just keeping them in a cage somewhere in the timings right I don't that so yeah I mean it perfect again with the looming litigation I do get a little bit sort of tongue shy because this is just going to be APA suit again man kind of freaks me out I really what it's the same premise of writing a book it's a great write a book but I can't do anything with it because I'll be sued I'll be suiting see it's a virtual guarantee now the the bright side is it seems to me like Marineland is not going to be around for terribly long a terribly long time

once they're dissolved you bet your ass I got lots to talk about I mean I would love if I could speak of everything without having to sort of watch you know I really do have to keep from saying a lot of stuff not on account of it being illegal but just on account of the fact that it will it'll virtually guaranteed me additional hostilities and Leah just kinda I could completely understand I completely understand I do look forward to that day where i'm sort of free and unencumbered and just can just be fucking me again you know yeah well if you're in that business right now you got to be looking at the future going we gotta get out we gotta get out for the take us out that's precisely what's happening so the speculation is Marine lands lawyer is now the sole controlling mine and he that's precisely what his job is to transition this from we know that they've sold property they sold the golf course they sold the campground we know now that they're all say they'll use the word selling it might not be the right term because marine land claims will be no Financial

exchanges but you know that that's yet to be seen the writing's on the wall they're going to be gone

I don't think the wife has any interest what I mean she's pushing 70 something it's probably doesn't want to be a part of this she's never really had a heavy hand in it I mean she had her she had she sort of took care of the cash business aspect of it she sort of that she had her role in it but it wasn't like a management position making decisions on animals Health importing exporting things like this like it's just beyond her so what we've been told is that Marine lands owner in his final days there's a wish list this is what happens to the park this is what happens with this this is what happens with this and you can bet your ass that there's something about a walrus and there's something about me in there what it is at least that I know of right now is obviously hostilities till the end I think that what's happening is the lawyer is fulfilling

John holders wishes with me I think it's I think it's in the books that he can't just end this thing or I don't know it's a game for Kara time I know the guys dead Let It Go folks a lawyer doesn't like me okay we're in the same room talk a lot of shit Bro nobody actually there's a camera filming go fuck himself or whatever he said that's going to be in court documents I didn't say that I said that to Senator but he'll run with that that's okay will it be in court documents oh he's watching he's listening I mean I sort of have hope that Jesus you Joy at the say that by some fuck up so sorry did I don't wish that on my best of friends but man with that would be something that's not gonna happen but some fuck do you know it's not gonna happen right now just talking shit just put it out there man it's bad guys like that Juju we talked about this last time too I think that what they do in terms of that business for their own sake they should stop for everyone that's profiting off that you

find an exit strategy and I don't just mean Marineland I mean anyone who understands my language that's that's hearing my words you should stop this is not the future this is you can't do that anymore this is going this is going to look horrible just a few years from now where people who've seen Blackfish people who do understand what those things are the more we find out about dolphins orcas the more we understand them it's going to be more and more it's not like oh wait a minute we just did some tests we found out there like crabs bro they're dumb as fuck like you just eat them let's not gonna happen man we're more and more impressed with them the more we study them I am more than happy to negotiate with Marineland that rather than signing any type of non-disparagement because I don't want my speech virtually locked in a in a legal document I'm a forgiving person I don't need I'm only responding in kind to their hostilities

come at me with War I bring it back I don't want to I have to yeah I take it right back up to where they bring it then they do this I gotta do this then they do this I'm like well he fucking thinking it's like if they would just die just dial it back I can be a happy smiley not chirping Marineland guy I don't have to beat I don't have to do that I've done what I've had to be where I am the man who was who created this scenario is gone we don't need the hostilities anymore so what is the lawyers motives exactly I don't know but I can assure you now that they've blocked out the fence they're doing everything they can to suppress our information they've bought up all the Billboards in all the available Billboards in Niagara Falls so that they've got Marineland signs because we have put up like as activists activists have put up Billboards one of which was like right at the entrance of Marineland last year's a thing of beauty so they you know they bought all these things up

they really don't want bad PR right now my guess is trying to get rid of the animals mitigate the pr losses because it's already a sound Foundation of it of bad PR and sell the property get rid of it all and I think you know they're trying to fast-track an accreditation so that they can facilitate animal movements and whatnot

my greatest weapon right now unfortunately is that I can assure them a great deal of of Financial Risk I have and I certainly can and am right now

they need to take that into consideration when you consider the price of a walrus and let's just use the number of hundred thousand which is a grossly inflated number for a walrus and let's say Marineland were to say hypothetically well why would we give you $100,000 asset when it's going to cost us less than that just to finish this litigation and Willow you 25k at the end of some shit why would we do that doesn't make sense and I say to them it's because I'm going to make that walrus cost you tens of millions consider that lose the hostilities I'll make you guys Heroes we can do that to the narrow this narrative doesn't have to continue The Narrative of War can end with the dead owner it could have ended but well they're all invested in it and one of the things about lawsuits it's like people when they get started there's a game going on you trying to win you're trying to win try to get the other side of the cave I mean this is a lot of what this is all and obviously you've taken this very personally this is all part of you know can I explain something really messed up I now

because we're coming to an end the law that I've been advocating for is going to pass this lawsuit is going to end the animals will I mean we're going to find out what's going to happen to them in the in the near future we already know what's becoming of some I don't know what it's going to be like to live without a lawsuit once the prospect is not nice bro you going to be on the beach feet up when the prospect came round of me not having one anymore that's not how I saw it it's weird I'm oddly can I strangely addicted and married to a fucking lawsuit I guess you'll be fast it listen we'll get you through you need more of that plant medicine I think I look at that bag with that says insane I'm like yeah no that's about right that's be real stuff that's stuff will put you on the planet that's outside Pluto that we haven't discovered yet and I see you've got the Tyson Ranch box oh yeah man I got a Tyson Ranch box he hooked me up and then that big box is from what does the company that gave us the big box

it was speed we'd that helped but right I think the extracts company ABX extracts or I'm not sure who honestly don't know we should help the shout out that company of different things in there I had I was elbow small the Box speed week they're the best and they're they're fucking they brought me a war chest so get in there I'm actually going to be on the Tyson's podcast tomorrow are you realize doctor yesterday and I was kind of stuck in what world am I sitting down smoking a bunch of weed with Mike Tyson well it's the one that was created on the counter these crazy decisions that I made the fact alone that we've come together like this dude I'm talking with with Whitney who's you know she says to you that I'm a hero now that she's my fucking hero man like I say it that crazy lady drove all the way to Texas with a fucking pig it's tried to like help this pig out that she found she fetched the pig and then drove all the way to Texas with it I love her level of crazy I think it's just fucking perfect it fits exactly

see what this needs and again I'm blessed that you that you sort of turned around to me and I know she was she was looking to have a conversation with you with regards to some legislation and with dolphins and well kept everyone not you sort of steered her my direction yeah let me touch on The Dan Bilzerian think it's I start is he coming here on in May is that right on the podcast not that I know someone had said to me oh I hear Dan Bilzerian Jamil he's been on before though yeah I know that he has I thought they was coming out soon the kind of made me nervous because so I a couple weeks ago Whitney's like just just drill and Dan Bilzerian on Instagram for having this polar bear right there's this video of a polar bear to fucking party and he's feeding it she's just--she's what he a polar bear party out I was like a pig is a big brown bear or a Grizzly is Big grizzly bear formerly yeah on a you know electric fence around and everything else so Shear was he probably one of his career at his house yeah hit a fuck oh Jesus Dan Bilzerian what the fuck bro oh my God he had a fucking

brown bear at his house look at the size of that thing oh my God I'm getting anxiety did he ever see the fucking what was the yeah what was that yeah yeah the one where the bear ripped a guy's throat apart that was one of the movie to as I know the bear was in a movie the bear was in a football movie what was that movie go on down with the basketball I think he has been in a few movies but with Will Ferrell where there's playing basketball you like wrestle them in the middle of the basketball game was that the bear yeah I think so well there was a bear that had been in movies and had done stunts movies and this guy the video was awful because the guy is literally just standing there and the bear just goes up to him and just decide to attack it rip his throat out in a second it's exactly that video - the this yeah can happen any freaking time only you got 45 girls in the back scantily-clad easily could happen and what's really crazy is that that bear that killed that guy they went back to training them they're not going to kill an animal that has value

the same as the Orca that killed all the trainer's like it they're not going to kill him it's just not going to happen but they were trying to like figure out whether or not he was going to do it again like Jesus Christ what do you up soothsayer how you going to figure out what a bear is going to do it's going to be a bear asshole but they're going to do better are stuff the people that are bringing that are trying to have you interact with these animals like that they're they're relying on the animals shock Factor the shock and awe you know they're bringing these animals in the close proximity to scare you that's a fucked up thing man that's the Bear right there look at that see the throat apart so horrific so back to the the Whitney thing so Whitney's just just harping on Dan bills and he's deleting the comments as quick as she's tossing aside aside okay well I'm gonna weigh in all right so I throw a comment and I forget about I tend to like go off do my thing and then that night I'm on the Phil DeFranco show not me personally but he actually takes the comment because they don't got a lot of likes and stuff I said something to the effect of you know that's an abused animal blah blah this not this is something you know smoke more weed anyways they put the comment up oh by the way the guy who handles the animal he

sort of he was using some legal sort of jargon with me as if he maybe was talking about lawsuit and I said fuck it sue me legal jargon he went right into the guy who trains them Atari no because I said that's a starved abused animal I mean I know how the I know how in the history of wild animals when is a bear ever walked out today I'm going to become fuck friends with someone today you know fuck this well they're not gonna be guard them out when they're a little cubs you know that of course right so they starve them they abuse them to have I mean but by definition what I'm saying but do they have to do that to train them I know there are people who claim to love bears the train Bears to take care of bears and I guarantee you they don't all do that it says big No-No there's nothing fun about abusing a drug starved animal delete this and your pension for analog exploitation smoke more weed I don't know smoke more weed just like going to help that but it wasn't a chirp that's what the way Phil DeFranco said it was like I was like smoke more weed you fool I was just like no no smoke more weed like go inside one thing okay got it you know what yeah it see I

I feel like there are people that have bears that raise them and I'm not in any way shape or form endorsing keeping bears in captivity but what I see is people that have these sort of intimate relationships with these really well fed Bears they're big and happy and they feed them and they'll get in the pool with them and it looks ridiculous but I don't think they're starving that bear and I think they're abusing that bear I don't think you have to do that I don't think you could automatically assume that a bear is starved and abused so I assume the start part I certainly can't say but it's a big bear that was a fat bear nice feeding it it might be hungry that day I mean the horn saying look at the body on the Barrow big not emails well-fed bear you have a well-fed animal that's hungry for a week There's no question about that but it's not likely that things started my definition of abuse is there's an electric fence around that fucking thing which is there yeah you can see it at about the ankle at about ankle is a fucking electric fence at

battles are sure house I'm sure whoever go back to that picture whatever installation this the the person who brought this thing does has to keep the animal within the confines of oh my God you imagine if it just went on a Model killing Rampage like that's an electric fan that's again an assumption I'll say but again I don't see how that wouldn't be what the hell does that serve as a barrier is just a trip line otherwise for that is many so and said that's a well-fed bear though son look at that thing that motherfucker eats that is a big-ass if you want to get an animal to do something if you want it to be docile you have to train it you have to sort of there's there's breaking the animal in many cases but I'll assure you Joe that food deprivation is in training is your most effective tool it just is you can find a healthy balance right but food deprivation is what we've got one you've talked about this particularly with dolphins to be fair in my my experience of wild animals it is with marine mammals so yeah not worked with bears out there are bears at Marineland it's a really it's a disgusting display it's an archaic

it looks like it's out of the 1800s even I mean it really is a disgusting place but the practice was to starve them and what people do there is they pay like I think it's a buck and they get like this this look cupful Corn Pops and you the Bears are like wave and yeah historically there's been Bears I mean he's got they've got like 40 or 50 bears in this little confined space I mean there's nothing there's no more No Greater abomination of nature than I can imagine in a solitary largely solitary animals of the confined to a bunch of them have the speed and then historically they have ripped each other apart in dude it's crazy I can actually delve into Marine Lance history deeper than I can you get to hear the full spectrum of some of the things that happened in bear in mind and it's important to note it was a different time different times different things happen and that's just that was the that was the that was the norm it's starkly contrasting time to win Marineland started so but the stories are like really it's jaw-dropping it's really Josh

pink stuff but

yes it's on one hand when you have children and you bring a child to the zoo on one hand it's really fascinating to watch this little person look at all these different animals and and freaked out and and and see how amazing it is but that's the only Pro is introducing human beings like little human beings in particular to these animals everything else is a con except for the animals that are like really endangered and they protect them and help breed them and then sometimes they were responsible for some reintroduction efforts but other than that it's an animal prison man weird I don't take the position right y'all I don't I'm not this person that's trying to represent an ideology necessarily I'm not against all zoos but I have to say that there's nothing more sad than seeing elephants cats bears at ncats man the cats when they're pacing back and forth and we just get them out of there whoo-hoo sir whose purpose are you serving is that good for you I mean seeing an animal that's got Zucco

it's it's a mental case and we don't know what the fuck's going on their head so we have no idea most people just watch it think this is just maybe normal or something right A lot of people we're not see because the veil is only now it's sort of coming off and people are started now getting the truth on the matters you start to see things for what they are I watch the video on YouTube some weeks ago and it was Marineland in the 70s and man was this place busy and the people were just I mean they were they were climbing over each other to be next to the pool I've never seen anything like I worked for 12 years I've never seen the amount of people that this thing had and we looked in the pool there's a bowl Orca who's he spans the literal length of the pool that he's in on the side with his his dorsal fin over and he's literally staring at the wall not moving and then you got to other massive orcas that are in this pool like maybe five times the size of this room kind of thing and the people are celebrating like it and the viewed the video has like this sort of quirky music it's kind of funny and fun and I'm watching this going what a disconnect of time like where this you're looking at exactly what you see today

in terms of the animals in the conditions at the end yet here these people having knowing nothing about it just in the ah the beauty of the met the Majesty of these animals is the Majestic nature of these animals and yet we couldn't see for ourselves whatsoever how abusive and gross this was its it was really a weird and strange thing but that's Marine Lines a legacy business they built they built themselves on having people come and experience the shock and awe of these animals and they did very very well but that time is long gone now longer I think we're going to come to a time in the future where people think the same way about zoos I think it's we're going to realize like I get that you want to see them I get it I get you want to see them I get i'll I want to see them too but God damn we got to stop doing that like this is no way also for he did the problem is humans don't have any real experience with animals we have experience with dog

and cats which are these domesticated weird little fluffy friends they are not animals we don't have much experience with real animals and even the animals that you have experience with their urbanized you know like pigeons that you can feed or squirrels it take peanuts from you you can out into the world and the world of the wild of forests and mountains and you see actual real animals and it's almost psychedelic there's like a weird like paradigm shift that goes through when you see a wild animal in the in the actual while I call this is where it's supposed to be kind of feels weird because you're in their world you would be at that because I like oh what because yeah the series of of tools that that animal has in its world that doesn't translate in captivity for instance is like wait a second I think can spring on me till I'm about like like I'm in its world now it's up to me that's the of the

Prince of witnessing animals because since the year and a half that expired that from my last show you know I had the blood that the gift of seeing dolphins in the wild I went down to the camera would be to us but it was while I was in California and that was my first experience in fact again I'm from a small place and then this year I was able to go to Washington State and see orcas in the wild now I've jumped off orcas rostrums into the air so high that you're looking down into Dixie cup to land and that's pretty awesome but there's nothing like having seen a fucking bull Orca with an 8-foot Mass on his back swimming next to his mother and all the Never My Heart sunk into my stomach I'd never seen anything more Majestic wow wow yeah do you know anything about what's going on in the Pacific Northwest where there's a pod of orcas that exists primarily on Chinook salmon and they're starving though that's the so in fact it's important it's I'm glad you mentioned that because just yesterday and today

a bunch of different protections are being announced for the southern resident killer whales which are in the Salish sea so it's going to impede sort of vessel you know they're getting they're really focusing on doing what they can what's happening there is they've got this Snake River Dam system that needs to be what happened is they put the system in and the Chinook are just dying they can't get through the flow is gone so they put the system in a long time a long time ago so it fits virtually over time has been decimating these populations no one really knew why but we're at the point now that we know that these orcas exclusively Shook and there's just not enough and we're as they used to be massive ones now they've got these tilt little tiny ones and you know there was a the plight of the Southern resident killer whales is really I'm glad that it's got getting Global attention I'm sure you're familiar with the mother who lost its calf and mourned for a Nexus of like 40 days and carried around it on her head in the type of visual I mean this was this captivated the world you can't look at an animal capable of such suffering

without being acutely aware of the damage you're doing when you separate them from their family the natural environment let me explain the difference when bears see their cubs dead they eat them yeah that's a difference yeah this is the you're talking about something that's insanely emotional it's a different kind of animal that's the thing that we're learning is the most notable aspect of these animals is their social as their emotional intelligence capacity I'm afraid of what it is the depth of what we're going to find out that they're capable of bond because particularly if there's ever some sort of way of translating communication if they figure out a way of breaking down those sounds and expressions into something that we can decipher we right now they don't I don't think they know much I've been underwater with orcas and dolphins and I've heard them you know I've heard forget I can't even tell you the sounds I mean they've got a wide array of sounds but you know

could you know to the best of my abilities I could tell you when an animal was excited based on their sounds they were making like when when our Orkin the OSHA was pushing me underwater to do a Rocket Ride which is when you jump off into the air and you do this big Majestic jump you knew it was going to be a good one when she let out this squawk at the bottom of the pool before pumping her tail and launch you just knew it man this she was on she was on fire and then other times you just you just knew she wasn't into it and I could I could know by the sounds you can really determine underwater sound alone you could really get to know your animal again I was there 12 years I mean I really got to experience a lot of things other people who could never really truly understand which is why it's important really important that I'm able to speak to these things because I mean even when it comes to the legislation that is passing I've had my name mentioned in the House of Commons I mean this is a national stage I've had it mentioned in the Senate I mean

people care about what is coming up just yet just a few days ago and Niagara MP actually it would be a great video if you could if you could pull it up it'll be on my Twitter it's one of the things I retweeted with the MP the local MP he bashes Marineland that is a thing of absolute Beauty I'm glad that I'm able to talk and explain to people what it is that my experience has shown me and the things that I know because

if people know they'll do better

problem with the videos if we play that video gets claimed oh really so House of Commons video it's public and government thing those usually are okay but it's okay I don't know if it's from is it from a New Soul but you know what the at the group that put it up because they okay sorry about that okay if you go to my Twitter and check it yeah it's something to Marvel is beautiful you have to be really careful with how I understand we've had a shit load of problems Niagara region well I can assure you this marine animal Justice will have no problem with you doing this I'm good friends with this okay give me a lab chuckle we'll just tell people how to get to it but put that back up so I can read that says Marineland and unfortunate place with horrible conditions okay yeah he's I mean this is a member of parliament this is on the net you know this is the this is the big stage right here and he's finally it took a long time for people anyone in the public policy to ever wade into this subject now we got people out right saying like this place is a hole I mean well what how far we've come in the last

six and a half years the world is changing my friend very changing whether people like it or not and this is one that I think it's

it's unavoidable this discussion and this resolution this this has to be we have to come to grips with what that is

it's just

it's just all kinds of wrong man it's all kinds of wrong and the fact that they're still suing you after all these fucking year as if they think it's working as if it's serving the many purpose on here I am again on the fuck JRE like are you kidding me dude you don't even know the favor you're doing me you don't even know what you've done like come on what what what what are you what do you want to accomplish what have you failed in accomplishing what do you think you're going to accomplish by King by continuing Jamie is the virtual definition of insanity it's not a good move Jamie who was it that was on the podcast I was explaining the processes in place of reintroduction into the wild they were going to have stages and Nets and stuff like that and these big outdoor areas where they can transmit dolphins and orcas to who was that do you remember

too many content conversations that me was it you we talked we spoke of the whale Sanctuary project I mean that would be of the I mean that's essentially the the basis of it in the goal it was that maybe it was you was it discussing how there's places where they're going to have like intermediate steps yeah absolutely so much that I mean maybe maybe you guys expanded I was someone else but no that's is the basis of this project is and I mean the good news is the whale Sanctuary project I mean this thing is going to happen it is the future there there there there well into the process of finding a site considerations are being made for a Washington State's cited Vancouver site but it appears as though they're settled on maybe Nova Scotia the community there at large is looking to work with them that's a wonderful that's wonderful news and I'll tell you something Joe once this law gets Royal Ascension becomes law what happens is Marineland is not able to export the animals unless the minister of the DFO the department of fisheries and oceans

concurs that it's in The Animals best interests well if such a site exists and Marine line is Keen on getting rid of their animals will have a place for them

I told you last time I was here that my dream is to save whales

this might happen

additionally if there's a real concerted effort of real effort to rescue those animals in Russia I may very well be a part of that team

so we're six and a half years ago I was talking of a speaking of a crazy dream where there was no blueprint there was no Foundation I just I'd sort of threw myself into the universe and said I'm just going to hang my hat on a dream I'm watching in real-time as its materializing that's a hell of a perspective humbling that is amazing this thing that we were talking about with the Pacific Northwest there are it's the resident population that has an issue because they only eat chin up salmon but then there isn't there a another pot that comes through there's transients and they're thriving because they eat everything the transients are there they're giving birth to doing quite well the marine animals state marine animals correct yeah in fact while I was the holes and stuff when I was there the guy that was with us literally said can you smell that I'm like no what is this smell that sort of oily weird shit like a seal is getting eaten somewhere whoa so we know we saw the

no the dorsals everything and yeah sure shit there's a part of a certain smell she could smell that that the seal was being why can't they teach these smart Wales to fucking eat what their friends are eating why they have to be rude he wouldn't it's like they won't eat Chinese food fuck Chinese food - starving to death no I want a burger it's a rare occasion but there's something called as super pod where is actually a Congregation of all the different families of orcas into this into this event where they all think they congregate and it's big social event and and there's a conference that happens every two years in Washington state called super pod which is organized by a good friend of mine Jeff venture to the it's an amazing event I look forward to being there again and speaking I get to another place for me to speak and and and roam about with experts and whatnot and learn a great deal of things but I was we were on the cusp of that almost happening because the boats are raiding to each other like okay well we've got family go in this we got a family on this like wait a sec there's three families going in the same same direction think there's gonna be

passing of pass and this is where the borders get real excited either at the prospect of a super pot of sorts or conflict or they have conflict they fight it could be but I mean for the most part it's verbal they just tell you like fuck they away from me fuck you yeah I imagine their messages are quite clear and you've got a 15,000 pound Bull male Orca you knew the bird yeah you're gonna listen fuck yeah especially the friends he holds man oh yeah you see their mouths wide open and see their teeth you like what the fuck are you why why don't they start eating mammals and I wonder if anybody's ever studied the difference in the behavior between the transient pods that eat the marine mammals versus the behavior of the ones that only exists on salmon like maybe they have a different maybe they're like you know like Abbott aren't like those different different kinds of people up there like go to my go-to source is Ingrid Visser she is a top she's the woman in New Zealand that swims with orcas restaurant because I mean she is a top the

the really the Global Spectrum of wild orcas scientist she'd be the one to talk to about that I mean you want to talk about a fascinating person to talk to holy shit the wealth of knowledge she has and she is a she's a very passionate Advocate I'm very proud to have done some very very that's dope good work with her so I'd love to talk to her I want to have her on the show yeah I would love to talk to her I'm so curious about those things he would blow your mind now what if there was a difference if at all and behavior if you were to invite her on the podcast she would get on the next flight from New Zealand and come here I can assure you that so well these are any injuries to her bro I know she don't like being home fuck you tell you what I think Summers I think she may have had our own Universe maybe she told me that yeah they're amazing animals I've always said that I mean this is coming from a self-admitted Bigfoot dork I'm a Bigfoot dork I really wish Bigfoot was a real thing but if Bigfoot was real thing wouldn't be nearly as cool as an orca no I give if we found some big stupid stinky ape that's been hiding from people forever bye

wow that's cool but is isn't much cooler than a chimp or gorilla what just because it's bigger know what an orca is is really cool that is a super intelligent super KO that eats sharks delft killing machine that Kelly that that has great white start talking tail and run shit is fucked up a great white shark like it has no business no business being in the ocean of the perfect weapon in their world I mean there's nothing that touches them they said they're literally at zero risk they have no Predators I mean they're just too damn strong tint and too damn smart and coordinated they do their kills as teams I mean that you're literally up against an army out there try to be a 500-pound ceiling that would be a big seal and army of Thirteen thousand pound killer whales who has a who sort of enjoy playing with you a little bit because you'd I mean it's all interpreters play but more often than not its training the little young ones and honey killing stuff it could be a brutal thing I mean I don't love watching it personally because they know I've worked with seals as well yeah I mean it's I take team Orca all day you're not getting you're not getting great odds but put the house on it and you'll

get some returns one of mine everytime amazing videos I ever saw was an orca with a beach seal the seal he had bitten it and toss it through the air in the sealed made its way to the shore and it was actually on the land just with a little bit of water and the Orca beached itself grab the whole is seal and just start smashing it in the water there and you see the water just flood red with blood and then it hops back and wiggles itself back in the water and swims away like holy fuck crazy holy fuck these things would Beach themselves I think 15,000 pounds the go big now do they ever get stuck yeah they do they do in New Zealand in fact that's where Ingrid's work is is really special that she's do this is a crazy story I have a friend that I grew up with Matt Harrison he went on to the to be real involved in the Army's they can decades into the army now he was on a training mission in New Zealand they were doing this training on a beach and didn't

get called to go to perform an orca rescue just like oh what so now he's running and now they've got shovels are trying to figure this thing out and now Ingrid shows up as she's the person to call and now there's a photograph I'm waking up in the morning to a photograph of Ingrid at this end of an orca and my friend Matt Harris from the same place as me a little town and while at the other end of the Orca and I'm like you got to be fucking kidding me and I got to reunite the two of them back in in Niagara Falls in the summer because Ingrid come down again and oh my god dude it's these are blessings that I couldn't have even ever imagine and yet here he was and you know and he'd be the first to tell you when he came back it changed his world it changed him never again Marineland done whereas before it might have been you know wouldn't necessarily case he was part of this rescue he's changed man like he's just I mean now he's fascinated work as you can imagine he's got the bug now that's amazing

listen is there anything else probably a million things but no no we're done for sure I I'd like to give a couple shutouts let's do give you a shout-out to the Kanye West clean mammals what they call you the Kanye West of La neige west of animal trainer oh there you go absurd so animal Justice Canada I got to do a shout-out to Camille who's who's next wait they're calling you the Kanye West what do they do that's it from November wow bro 2013 that started it all man I say wait they're calling you the kind wow the Connie was a Wall Street the how to defend himself against 1.5 million dollar lawsuit wow yeah yeah shout out man it's been an honor to be your friend dude you've changed the landscape of all of this by the way I know you don't look I get it I can do this all day the first show this to you the last ones to you the one in the middle is to you every one of them I think you've changed my world personally but you've really changed the landscape of this entire thing Whitney said it best today she goes you know Joe really is the guy to move the needle on this thing and I'm like you're damn right so like a couple of fucks you

I was out there as often as you can and just you know keep this stuff up because you've had a heavy hand in all this along with for instance Senator Senator Wilfred Wilfred more who's the person who to table this piece of legislation Maurice and Claire I got to extend a thanks to to leader of the green party Elizabeth May who's really taken this thing it's her baby and process this thing through and yeah if you didn't hear me shout out your name sorry can't do it forever it's there's some very satisfying things about having a podcast and one of the really satisfying things is being able to let people know about something that for them is very important like for there's many people that are listening to this as many people that are hearing this that are trying to understand with your busy life with your bills in your relationships and your work and

you're also living in a world where something is happening that most likely would be thought of as a horrendous act in just a decade or two decades and then we're going to be looking back saying how the fuck did we let this slide how did we do this and I think guys like you if it's not for your sacrifice many millions of people don't understand this as well and that's real that's you that's a hundred percent you your sacrifice your ability to describe it so eloquently and your courage to keep fighting this this is very important I have important for the human race had Faith through and through and it's you're right it's not failed me listen you're right you're right when it comes to us you're right when it comes to an these marine animals that are super intelligent being stuck in swimming pools it's fucked up it's got to stop it's got to stop while we understand what it is you can't keep your head in the sand with this this is this is madness

this is a terrible terrible thing and we need to stop it well as much as I've had a hand in it thank you Joe my pleasure listen thank you walrus whisper on Twitter Instagram yeah I'm just learned Instagram but I'm getting pretty good at all walrus whisper if there's a the one on Instagram is got a little it's got a little bit of a different but I'm telling you know it's attached to my Twitter there but if you look up filled immerse you'll find it all it's okay I'm easy enough to find your bad motherfucker Phil thank you friend bye everybody see you thank you everyone for tuning in to the podcast and thank you to our sponsors thank you to Rakuten go to rakatan as start shopping and earning your cashback that's Rak Ute n.com Rakuten.com go there and earn that cash back

thank you also to the motherfucking cash app who the number-one finance app in the app store for almost two years one day I'm going to say two years because it'll probably still be number one and of course when you download the cash app in the app store or Google Play and then you order your cash card make sure you use the referral code Joe Rogan five dollars will go to you and five dollars would go to support our good friend Justin wrens fight for the Forgotten charity which is building Wells for the pygmies it's a true win-win so download the cash app today and last but not least we are brought to you by zip recruiter hiring someone is challenging it's hard to find qualified candidates but zipper cruder is there to help with their powerful matching technology they send your job to over 100 the web's leading job boards but with their matching technology

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