#1323 - Andy Ngo

Jul 10, 2019

Andy Ngo is a political journalist best known for covering street protests in Portland, Oregon. He has written columns in The Wall Street Journal, the New York Post and National Review, amongst others, and is an editor for Quillette.

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is you may have seen this young man the news he was assaulted during an antifa event and he's a journalist and he was punched and they threw milkshakes on him and is very disturbing to watch and I wanted to find out why it happened what he thinks the cause of it was and what is what's causing all this violence that you're seeing at these antifa rallies and these these events so I had him in to talk to him and we learned a lot about it and I hope you enjoy please welcome Andy no

The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day

okay hello Andy hi mr. Rogan thanks for having me on my pleasure how you doing man you're all healed up the bruising and swelling has gone down as you can see but the most serious injury was to the brain you have a serious injury to brain yeah brain hemorrhage What hap from what the mob beating so they from getting hit in the head you got a brain hemorrhage multiple times really Asian CSO - me on the back of my head and to my eyes but what so how do you know you had brain hemorrhaging and how are you able to just walk around well I was taken to I started losing my balance after the beating mmm there was no police made it to the courthouse sat down on the ground ambulance was called I had to walk back to their Homeland because the streets were walked back to the police precinct in the direction of the mall the Medics I was associated with the Portland Police let me know that they that I needed to walk in that direction it was quite shocking because it was

I just been a victim of a small beating and then now they tell me to walk back in the direction of the center Precinct where the beating at happened did they not know that you had been beaten up let's let's let's let's set this up for people who are new to this and don't understand what happened I've been aware of you because of you had written for quit let right and you had become one of these for whatever reason controversial online journalists and you covered antifa quite a bit and you covered a lot of the radical left you were in Portland and what was the exact rally that was going on what was it called does it have a name

it was something like protect Portland so it was organized by Rose City on too far and its allies and by its allies I mean I'm referring to the local chapter of the Democratic Socialist America came out to support them and numbers and what are they protecting Portland from they allege fascist fascists but just in general I mean is there like a particular thing they're worried about there were two right-wing events happening that day that they were counter demonstrating against it was a once in part one part of downtown the proud boys were holding a flag waving event that was completely peaceful there was no actually flag waving American flag waving correct okay a lot of Portland has found that provocative and a manifestation of fishes stick violence and in another part of downtown there was a men's rights activist who was holding a rally

it was titled for the for victims of domestic terrorism it was an anti antifa event so

a men's rights activist yes that was doing an anti-fascist or anti antifa correct what what boy seems like a whole lot of do about nothing flag-waving and anti antifa okay yeah can I set the context for please for the city of Portland it's a mess you have listeners and viewers all over the world so Portland Oregon is the extremely Progressive City in the Pacific Northwest of the US and I call it a political monoculture because really it's

not just you're more likely to find socialist open socialist there then would you would find like a regular Republican or conservative and within this sort of echo chamber of just leftist politics there's it's become also a hotbed for far-left militancy so Rose City antifa is you could call it like the local chapter movement of antifreeze one of the oldest in the country it's very large in Portland and they hold what you could call protest but their protests that always devolve into riots where they essentially take over parts of downtown and attack people attack their ideological opponents and do it frequently with impunity I mean I wasn't the only one to talk that day there were two other people who were bashed on the head very in have very severe lacerations to the face and head you may recall the footage from October of last year when there was a

early driver who was attacked on the streets yeah they were directing traffic exactly and and somehow or another the mayor thought it was a good idea to let this take place is that the case and they told the police to stand down is that true so I mean the next part of this journey for me will be the legal aspect of it and it seems like something stinks in Portland the issue is really not with the rank-and-file officers they're following orders to not intervene so I had been assaulted and criminally harassed early before the mob beating people throwing milkshakes at my face and head within eyesight of police who are watching in downtown and both of these were reported and the answer that I heard that day as I've heard many times before when I've been assaulted by antifa is that we will not question approach or detain the suspect because this could incite the crowd okay so this is

this has exacerbated this is why this has become such a big deal in Portland because of this attitude because Portland seems to be the hot bed right now for this kind of stuff is that is that fair to say I think it is so is this the mayor whooping who is who's the one who's giving the orders to the police to tell them to allow the stuff to take place

well I'm crowdfunding for the legal phone right now and we are willing we are going to hold accountable whoever is responsible for dereliction of Duty where the evidence leads us so Portland has it odd governance system in that the mayor who is up for re-election by the way is also the police commissioner so oh wow yeah how does that work it was an old system that had inherited and it just it never changed from the wild west like that sounds ridiculous yeah it is ridiculous you can see all the political conflicts conflicts and in conflicts of interest that that would arise right yeah yeah shitload how did you get involved in this like what white first of all why were they angry you

I work as a journalist or name like places that I've been published before I write and I do video and I do podcasts so my written work has been published in the Wall Street Journal the National Review spectator New York Post I'm also on the editorial team of Colette magazine and one of my Beats among several is about far less militancy particularly important to me what I was noticing was that the national and local media coverage had a particular blind spot when it came to the coverage on antifa there was all this sensitivity to the corner and hope for right and white nationalism or white identity extremism but they could not or would not recognize the militancy that was on the left important seem to be one of the places for Ground Zero particularly after 2016 we

very violent rioting and downtown the a segment of the population could not accept the election results in November and so they did a million dollars in damage setting fires and destroying properties and businesses and at that time I was a graduate student working at the student paper and I did a story on that and I came out to witness and it you know this is a major American city but it felt like I was in Afghanistan or Iraq just with all these fires and explosions and people running around with bats while Mast up and that was first time I really became familiar with anti-fun I took an interest in it and I thought over and over that the media coverage was basically really sort of whitewashing than kind of like referring to them as anti-fascist giving them that propaganda Victory and anti-fascism movement though masters of doublespeak

and this information so it starts with the name anti father is short for anti-fascist but I never refer to them as like because that's seeding the ground to to them they when they say that they are defending a community self-defense it actually is referring to meet premeditated violence in defense of violence so I started going to covering this more and more you know after I left the student paper I started writing for some national and international Publications and do internationally there was a you know a set of readers who are interested in what the hell is going on in Portland why are there these continues scenes of street brawls and Anarchy over and over what are the variables that are causing this and I thought that I could try to shine a light on it and by doing so

became enraged with my work and particularly things they've hated me since last year but they started really oscillating on on the first of May Mayday so this year was when I was physically assaulted by them for the first time they were very upset that I wrote a story from the New York Post where there was a series of in this is one of the other beats that I work on is a hate crime hoaxes and Portland earlier this year had this huge panic over serious allegations of LGBT people claiming that there were marauding right-wing gangs driving around trying to kill people with bats with hammers trying to kidnap them and these were all rumors that were reported on social media calls the huge friends even the mayor

had to come out and you know issue statement about how he was concerned there was an emergency town hall with the local career center and so I started looking into all these obligations it was 15 of them and I found that of the 15 only one was reported to police and what was reported to police and documented in the report was entirely different from the GoFundMe we're over ten thousand dollars was raised for this trans activist she had alleged that one night walking home transphobic people had beat her with the bat and knocked her unconscious police report said that she was extremely intoxicated and likely fell and there was no evidence that anybody had assaulted her so when I this story came out because anti-fur was really anti-fun the Democratic socialists America and Portland we're really involved in peddling this hate crime fear in Portland and I just kind of you know threw water on this this

Panic that they have been flaming and so on the 1st of May there was a riot that I was covering and one of the Mast and see four people went up and sprayed me with I think it was bear mace some type of chemical that blinds you and burns you yeah I saw the video yeah so there was no police that that was there that I mean that anti-fire event was publicly advertised on Facebook and all that so over and over like antivirus very transparent about the calls for people to come to the stuff in to engage in this physical confrontation that they call self defense and the police either stay away or on purpose or are told to stay away so it's very confusing because when you watch the videos there's macing people they're amazing people who disagree with them like they're yelling at each other and then someone will come along and makes people and for the police did not step in and do

dang it's I don't I don't think there's another city in the country that would allow something like that it just doesn't it doesn't seem like it makes any sense at all because you're not talking about people that are being physically attacked and their amazing someone to protect themselves or even a threat of being physically attacked their just disagreeing with each other and yelling at each other and then someone will come along and start macing people and I've seen it many times and I think there's also a real problem with people wearing masks you know what whether their ideology makes sense or not when you put people in masks and then you have a bunch of people yelling and escalating and then there's teams there's team and Tifa versus Team you know anybody opposing them they feel is a white supremacist or a Nazi and this is just how they've chosen to frame it to dehumanize people and then you see them attack people I'm sure you're aware of the girl who got mace in the face because she had a hat on it said make Bitcoin great again but it was the same color hat as the make America great again hat and she got maced in the face and she got hit with

into right didn't she get hit in the face with something anyway this kind of shit is really weird it's really weird and disturbing to see these young people with these ideal idealistic versions of what they're doing I think a lot of the people that are involved in that really think they are fighting fascism they really do they really think that Donald Trump and the proud boys and white supremacist from Charlottesville carrying tiki torches that these people represent something horrible that sweeping across the country and the young people today need to stand up and fight against this and they're putting on masks and they're carrying backpacks and whackin people in the head with crowbars is really fucking weird to see and it's really weird that the city of Portland OR all cities in fact haven't made some sort of a law where you can't walk around in public with a fucking mask on because that is one of the things that helps these people it's the same thing that you see on social media when people are Anonymous and they say the most horrible hateful shit they're saying that because they're not

front of you you can't recognize them they don't have to take responsibility for their saying this is a lot of the same characteristics that a person has when they're wearing a costume you're dressed in all black with gloves on and a face mask and you're hitting people with a bike lock like what what is that about well what that's about is you're getting away with being anonymous and you're getting support from all these other people around you there's this mob mentality that takes place it's well documented with humans where will you get a group of people together and there's another group and it's like it's a tribal Warfare type situation and that's what you're seeing with antifa in the fact that the Portland Police have I don't know what's going on with them whether they've been told to not handle that but the fact they haven't done anything to mitigate this is fucking it's embarrassing it's a shame it's terrible it really is it's a chart it's a travesty you asked about the Met earlier and and if he issued any stand on orders there's a statement that was put out after I was

talked by the by Deltona who's the president on the police Union and he said very clearly he called from the man to remove the hand cuffs handcuffs of law enforcement so they can enforce the law and he accused them are politicizing the police department is this mayor popular

no he's not he's hated well by moderates because of the things that he allows top in the city but the far-left hate him as well they view him as not radical enough

why why are they mad at you is it just the Articles you've written because somebody told me that you had been accused of doxing people is that true absolutely not true so this is such an outrageous defamatory claim so what happened was unmade a at that right there was one of the anti-fur women had charged in to participate in the fight during the raw brawl in one of the right wing person he was wearing a mask I didn't know who he was allegedly had hit her on her head and her head on her neck somewhere like that she was knocked out I recognize this woman from her activism that day as the person who sabotaged the sound equipment when James D'Amour came to Portland State in February of last year that was an event that I was involved in organizing putting the State University and we should just explain to people James to Moore's the author of the Google memo that was talking about with

and Tack that was wildly misrepresented what he had said and people had claimed that he was his awful sexist even the CEO of YouTube said that he enforced harmful gender stereotypes where while he was citing evolutionary psychology and the sighting all these different studies on why women gravitate towards particular Fields And even a page and a half and encouraging our strategy to trash strategies to encourage more women to get an attack but it was basically in response to things that Google had written about dealing with the lack of women in Tech what what is the problem here they're looking for very particular answer which was sexism and he was saying well it actually has more to do with the choices that women sort of naturally tend to gravitate towards and he was saying that there was a way to possibly encourage women to get into technology and he devised these strategies to do so but was wildly misrepresented

and he if you meet the guy and I've had him on the podcast he is a soft-spoken sweetheart of a guy he's not a not a misogynist not a mean-spirited person he was merely looking at the results of studies and he was looking at real raw data and that this real tendency that certain people have to gravitate towards certain positions in life yeah so there was so many misconceptions about James somewhere which is why the student group I was involved in was invited him to come but antiphon the Allies just could not take the other try to shut down the event and try to get it cancelled at that event this one woman she damaged the sound equipment as she was trying to shut it down she pulled all these clothes out and push the soundboard on the ground it broke so I recognize her from the day she was named in the media and then on made a recognizer so I named her I said this is the name of the woman who was knocked out I recognize her from the James Des Moines that

where she had dementia equipment and antifa had spun that around as me doxxing her that's not doxing boxing is where you release people's personal details such as where they work where they live their phone numbers with the so that people who identified her I named her yes okay but she had been identified in the media before she was a big local activists

so that's basically it other than you writing these stories criticizing their behavior

what's disturbing to me Beyond disturbing was legitimate journalists that were making excuses for why you got beat up and people saying things like play stupid games when stupid prizes I saw stuff like that that pick a better hobby I saw a guy right that you know anti-fascists will rule Portland's not your place I saw all this crazy shit from people with blue check marks that were saying that this is what happens when you support Fascism and I was so baffled by this like I read some of your stuff I haven't read all of it admittedly but I've read some of your stuff none of it came off as you supporting fascism it came off as you may be at the worst case scenario being a contrarian and not wanting to go with this sort of left-wing ideology that is so widespread throughout the Pacific Northwest but I

see any I mean first of all you're not a white guy we should be explained to people you are Vietnamese and you know your what they would consider a member of a protected class you're not just a minority you're openly gay you mean your your what do you consider yourself politically

I've been avoiding labels for a while I think it's interesting that a lot of the coverage on what happened to me always qualified my who I am as like a conservative journalist well the worst things the way they are labeled quit let it was said you work for far-right newspaper magazine quill at which is not the case at all that's not true I think the subtle I mean the dog whistles are trying to say in there that this person deserve the and of course these are the same people who always talk about believe the victim they were the ones who jumped on to believe jussie Smollett but I guess I was wrong type of victim but exactly because even though you are you're you seem like a very nice person you want to do anything violent

you you're supporting the wrong thing or not supporting them not supporting not just blindly supporting what Aunt Eve is involved with which is what I mean that is what fascism is mean if you you can't even question some of the more heinous things that me clearly heinous things they're doing just fucking amazing people in the audience Mason people in the crowd just pointing it at people yelling and screaming hitting each other with things when you're wearing masks getting involved in these brawls it's so fucking stupid it's so stupid to watch it's like this is base human behavior and its worst example and the fact that this dumbass fucking mayor thinks that this is a good idea to let this play itself out this is how people get shot this is how people die when you allow a certain amount of violence and when you condone or don't do anything with violence that you can't defend like violence against a person like yourself I saw those guys hitting you in the

go ahead throwing milkshake see where your truck just trying to walk away you weren't doing anything yeah you you ask me up to getting a hundred I get the the brain hemorrhage so the video that's gone viral out there is actually the second half of the beating I don't know if there's video the first half hopefully there's through CCTV or something but the first there are more hits to my face on my head and so when I went to the hospital because of the nature of the contusions on my head they did a CT scan in the in the ER and that confirm the subarachnoid hemorrhage so what started it what was the why'd you get hit okay 29th of June okay that would be 10 11 days ago from now and so there was that demonstration happening anti-fur was rallying to oppose the far-right they claim of pose fascists

I came was excited to use my new GoPro I was a bit nervous speaking I going to live and I was nervous because I've been targeted just two months earlier right I left my house with the helmet got in my car saw briefly where you were a helmet I had a help I did have one saw a reflection of myself took it off decided I don't want anybody there to get the impression that I can't because they already accused me of being a Nazi and fall right and white supremacist I didn't want any of them to then perceive me by the fact that I came to helmet as and possibly a combatant slightly Vietnamese white supremacist is that possible in their eyes yes hilarious and I mean this goes to the the bigger issue that I've taken issue with how flip and people use these accusations of not just racist or being Nazi or far right but it's like what part of what makes anti-fog so dangerous is

they feel that they are morally justified in their brutality yes and they get actually a lot of morale from Progressive and left-wing media So after talking about what the attacker would like to talk about how the actual militant anti-folk people is very small those who are going out and doing the violence the larger group and those that I find more concerning actually other nonviolent interfere anti-fog you find those more concerning the time because they work too mainstream

anti fuzz tactics and ideas like now doxxing by antifa is not even is kind of seen as well these people deserve it like do people not realize like when your docs and you people's you know releasing your dress has happened to me your family's address out it it puts this constant state of fear in you even when you're in your own home like I don't know if they realize that so the the doxing and then of course you know the punch the Nazi mean was meant to be cute and funny but when they label such large segment of the population is not seeds it's it's going after a lot of people who are innocent and law-abiding such as myself well they're also calling Jewish people Nazis exactly insane and then now more recently the milkshake Enos Enos is cute nonviolent former political dissent as you saw in the video after I was getting beaten I was trying to get away and then they

pelting all these liquids at my head and in my face and that blinded me I couldn't even see really which way to leave so to backtrack a little bit so now I'm jumping all over it's okay the March was right in the heart of downtown just before I was attacked they were chanting no hate no fear this is irony of it I remember that very clearly the crowd was chanting that I was walking towards the front of the demonstration thought I would get a wide angle shot on my golf GoPro before I could get there somebody bashes me really hard in the back of the head and I've never been in a fight mr. Rogan so I didn't even realize what had happened to me I was knocked for soon as I caught my footing the punches kept coming from every direction and all I could see was like people just and block with moss and most of them that were hitting me hard on these gloves that have the hardened knuckles I think it's like stop gloves yeah or tactical gloves yeah it was

analyst and I could see in the background like this was in front of the Justice Center this is the other side I need so in broad daylight in the heart of downtown steps away from the central police precinct from the Sheriff's Office this beating happened no police intervene at any point I totally see it I don't know nobody came to my Aid at any point before during or after so this happens I don't know where you get blindsided the back of the head a bunch of people punch you mean how many times you think you got hit maybe six or more the the fact that people dismiss this is not being a big deal is really horrific to me because the fact that the people that are in antifa that are nonviolent folks which I think I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to bring that up that it's the extreme of the extremists right it's the people that think that there's a call for violence and it is a reason to do it and even someone like yourself that is a non-violent person has

as a journalist that there is a justification for just just for whatever reason you want just go up to that person start hitting them even though they're not a threat even though they're not do anything to harm anybody even though they're not putting anybody in danger there they're just being a journalist and you feel like you could justify hitting them it's really disgusting and it's describing there was this thing with Vox where Carlos Mesa was minimizing the impact of antifa and kind of joking around about it and making it seem like it's just no big deal and he got really upset because Steven Crowder was making fun of the fact that he's gay and the fact that he talks with a lisp and that Crowder mentioned that a long with mocking his stance on antifa and then it became this gigantic thing that Steven Crowder is gay Basher but but didn't become a big deals at this guy is minimizing violent fascists and that's what I mean that's how I feel about this when you're trying to enforce your own ideology on other people

and you have no tolerance for anybody with a differing opinion particularly journalist daddy is fascism it's so ironic to call yourself an anti-fascist when you're literally enforcing your own particular ideology to the point of violence and you wearing masks and you're running around hitting people and pretending that you're being inundated with Nazis and white supremacist and that this is all necessary like that old man that was just driving and they're directing traffic in forcing him to about obey them and then when he doesn't want to they chase after him and assault him it's fucking bananas and the fact that this city has not stepped in and recognize that they have a real problem because this is got momentum behind it and the people that are involved that are nonviolent you gotta speak up they've got to speak up if you're a person that really believes that there shouldn't be homophobia and there shouldn't be violence and there shouldn't be white supremacy good for you you probably got involved in this for

all the right reasons but if you don't recognize that someone like you yourself who is a person of a different ethnicity you're not a white person you're Vietnamese you're a gay man and you got assaulted for no reason you didn't do anything that mean it's almost like a test of where do your values truly lie and if you think it's okay for a person like you to just get a salted for no reason you are the problem you're the problem your mindset is the problem it's not whether or not there should be white supremacy of course there shouldn't be it's not whether or not there shouldn't be people will be able to freely Express themselves of course there should be that is not what the issue is with the issue is is group mob mentality when you get people together and you let them wear masks and you tell them that they're fighting against some evil and then they feel Justified and hitting a person like you it is really sickening and there's this diffusion of responsibility thing that happens when one person hits you and everybody feels like it's okay to hit you

it's a mob mentality thing and it's it is extremely common with human beings I've been in mob situations it's terrifying because you feel it in the air you feel the chaos in the air when you're in some sort of a large-scale brawl type situation like anything can happen people just run up on people and start punching them it's not like two people alone in a like an open area where they can talk and work things out no it's chaos and it's some weird animal activity there's some weird animal Instinct aspect to it that is very unique to humans and when you see something like this and see a guy like you just getting Pepper with milkshakes and punched in the head and it's fucking disturbing and for these people to dismiss that and not stand out not stand up and say hey this is not what we're supposed to be about this is not what I signed up for they become a part of the problem I'm sure there's people listen to this that are upset at this because maybe you you you've support and teeth

you support their ideology think about what you actually support think about what this is really all about what you shouldn't be supporting is people wearing masks running around fucking hitting people you ain't changing shit with that all you're going to do is call for more people with masks from the other side if people feel like right-wing people are being attacked and I don't think you're even right wing are you mean what are what we just what would if you had a gun to your head or a maze to your face what would you say you're a Centrist would you say I think it's fair to describe me as center right center right okay which is fine it should be okay mean you should be we should be allowed to have disagreements of ideologies and of political Persuasions political leanings but this is it's twisted and it's twisted the way it's being depicted in the media it's very strange how it's being dismissed it's very strange and that there's really people in 2019 debating whether

not it's okay to assault journalists it's fucking Madness well we've been seeing the build-up to this for years people political violence coming from the left is seen as moral and unfortunately even those working in mainstream media how that tines excused or found that type of islands good I'm thinking of Chris Cuomo and Don Lemon at CNN yeah and I wonder if that played a role in why they were the only son to left Broadcast News station News Network to invite me on to speak no other left-of-center media has invited me on to any of the show when they had you want to speak what was their attitude about all this

I think the host was very respectful and fair who hosted who wasn't John Brennan I think

so you think they were respectful and fair did it bother you that people like Chris Cuomo and Don Lemon had openly supported and Tifa it did it I mean even this is was kind of encouraged me to continue doing my work months ago even last year when I was getting threatened because it seemed like I don't think Chris or Dawn actually understood I think they're ignorant about anti-fur I think you're right you know they fall and they believe the propaganda about them that's just an anti-fascist movement with the name amid cries itself I'm hoping that like even with my injuries and some you can see some you can't I'm continuous Peak force myself to do all these media engagements because I want the the needle on the conversations about antifa to to move to change like this is not just a movement of

people masking up and starting random violence on the streets like the violence isn't just it is not arbitrary it's working towards their goal it's a movement of violent radical anarchists and Communists in their agitating for political revolution in violence is part of the modus operandi it's not a bug it's the future of what they do so I don't know if people recognize how dangerous this is this movement in the DHR since 2016 has described some of them Two Fellas activities as domestic terrorist violence so the fact that they're able to openly organized and recruit on social media is it's a baffling to me I'm wondering like there's such as huge blind spot for far-left militancy not just in mainstream media but also in big Tech do you think this is because Trump is President because so many people oppose Trump as president that the idea of far-left militancy is in a knot

addition to what they oppose so they feel like the the enemy of my enemy is my friend is exactly what it is I think it what Eric Weinstein had a great point about this and he said the one of the real issues is the cowards of the left and the cowards of the right there are allowing the extremists to do the work for them so when people see someone like the proud boys running around attacking people even the proud boys you have to realize that they started off as a joke like when Gavin McInnes first came up with the idea of The Proud boys it was it was literally a joke and it became an actual organization at for fun and then people joined it that didn't think it was a joke and then people joined and started taking in a deeper and deeper Direction and he eventually disavowed himself in a band in the group you see that I bet you see the same thing with antifa I bet the idea initially was hey we see these tiki torch carrying assholes in Charlottesville we see that guy with a car

over the girl was protester and killed her like this fucking shit has got to stop so we have to organize we have to do something and then what happens you get people in masks and you get people Justified and then you get people that support those people and then you get the extremists and the extremists who are not disavowed who are not there's no one speaking out against them from the left there's no one saying hey the shit has got to stop because they want them to do their dirty work for them they want them to push the envelope and push the agenda and get their diet their ideology moving in the right direction even if it's done through methods that they don't agree with and that's where it gets horrible because I see these people that are involved in this and I know for a fact just by watching them move and interact with each other they don't understand violence they don't they're not good at it they don't understand it they this is like role play it's like cosplay and you're going to call for real you're going to get real violence in return and from people who actually know how to do it and if you look at

from the left and violence for the right violence from the right scares me a whole lot more they're a lot more armed the it's they're more dangerous human beings in general and I think that if this this keeps happening and people from the right feel threatened and their lifestyle feels threatened and their ideologies feel threatened you're going to get people meeting at these things and it's going to be more than just people throwing mace and milkshakes at each other it's going to be people showing up ready for actual combat that's fucking terrifying it's fucking terrifying and this idea that you could just run around hitting people and not have any consequences just like the way a child looks at violence this is what bothers me so much if you are if you looked at their core tenants of what they want to do and if they wanted to accomplish that through political negotiation and through conversation and rallies and speeches fine that's fine but we have people wearing masks hitting and Mason people you've packed you've crossed the line into the land of no return and you've called

out to people who oppose you you challenge them to come and do the same and this is how violence begets greater violence it's fucking dangerous it's really dangerous violence does not exist in a vacuum you can't just have a little bit of violence and then there's no repercussions people react to that there's people that watch those videos and watch you get punched and there is no justification for that when you see someone like yourself who's a small person slight in stature not violent in any way and you're not even swinging back you're just taking it and try to protect yourself people get infuriated by that and there's people right now I guarantee you who saw that video who are thinking what I would do if I was there I'd fucking shoot all of them or I'd beat them all to death with baseball bats or I'd run him over with my car or do you think and the unhinged amongst the right who feel like this is a in opposition of their ideology they're going to show up someday and when that happens people are going to die this is a

fucking terrible and this is where the mayor and the police and they have not done their job and I believe the police and they say that they've been handcuffed and maybe the mayor just didn't have an idea of where this was all go but now you do

this is the mayor has been in office now for three years and he finally did a press conference two days ago nine days after my talk to dress this controversy right and what was so frustrating is that the the police chief had publicly stated that she thinks the city or the state should adopt a law that makes it illegal to wear a mask while committing a crime that should be a no-brainer it's shocking that in Portland I got a better idea how about not you can't wear masks in public at these events because you can say you can't wear a mask while committing a crime

you're wearing a mask how do you who the fuck do you know committed the crime unless you take the mask off then you can't even identify it's stupid you can't wear a mask yeah so this you know sounds like a baseline somebody policy that you should start advocating for right like don't kick babies yeah well the mayor said he hasn't decided if he's supported it he hasn't decided to be supported whether or not it should be illegal to wear a mask while you're committing a crime right that's hilarious and you had no policy proposals and he spoke as if like it was his first day in office when this was like this is becoming routine now it's almost banal in Portland and Portland is a Harbinger and a warning to what can happen in other cities when you have a a government those in the upper echelons of governance turning a blind eye to follow us militancy and just letting

these thugs go on the street is Imagine either was the case if they were doing that about about far-right militancy imagine if they were far right people who are doing this and committing violence and the government was just like well you know I'm not sure if they shouldn't be allowed to wear masks while they commit crimes people would be freaking the fuck out it's the weird justification of this stuff that's that's so disturbing I just don't and I fucking love Portland it's one of my favorite places it's great the city's great I mean it's fucking cool people it's not all of them that are involved in this is a very small number and the even amongst the small number it's the very small number of them that are radical that are violent when you look at the people that are attacking you not to minimize it but it's very few you look at that video it's a couple people out of thousands of people that are in that group there's a few people that are attacking it's about a dozen was it really is okay well if you count throwing milkshakes but actually hitting you

how many people you think hit you I'm not sure three four maybe something like that okay that's the problem the problem is these fucking assholes it's not the people that disagree with you so people that think you should be able to throw milkshakes at people and guys like Carlos Mesa who don't think it's a big deal throw milkshakes of people it's a fucking big deal it's a big deal because you were it calls for a response this is why it's a big deal and people don't understand us all they don't understand violence you can't just do that you you live in some comic book world or some fucking Disney show world where you can just throw a milkshake at someone they don't do anything they got to turn around punch you in your fucking face and then what happens well you might fall and hit your head and die because that's real that's the real world we live in or you might cause a giant brawl because people don't want to be hit with milkshakes or there's enough of you where you think you can get away with it so you're an awful bully and your throne milkshakes at someone because you don't like what they stand for and you meeting in a public place and you're disagreeing about something so too

right this disagreement you're assaulting people well for that very reason and if I never engages in like a quote-unquote fair fight one on one they're what they do usually as a group while Mast up one or several of them would distract the person either by speaking to them perhaps or blinding them with the chemical spray and then they take turns beating so there's even no opportunity to like you know you don't even know how many people hitting you at that point so that's what they do blind you and then attack it's so it's so scary because it's so dumb it's not just scared because like you watching what happened to you was scary because you know and watching that old man got hit in the head with a crowbar it's fucking horrific all that stuff's horrific and apparently that guy had pulled out some sort of a rod and was swinging a people before he got hit with a crowbar I do not know but I do know when you start hitting people in the head with crowbars that is the beginning of the end horrible horrible

it happens in response to that and it hasn't yet but this is 10 days ago who knows what's going to happen if there's another one of these rallies and you get people from the far right who organized this is when the proud boys really radicalized they radicalized to go against antifa they were attacked they attacked them and then it became this fucking shit show that you're seeing right now yeah I want to State for the record the the the violence that happened after I was beat up was involving the the men's rights activist group and antifa proud boys was helding they held this operative on a different part of the city as far as I know they did not there was no conflict within this in this particular guy in the so clear who was the men's rights guy it's actually a woman a woman who's a men's rights person yes that's hilarious she must love dick right if you had to guess

no comment sorry I'm a comedian I couldn't help it you don't even have to say her name so she she she organizes thing yeah I would say here's the other thing you know like I might what needs to be stated as well about I guess the right-wing movements that are in Portland or come to Portland to do these events there's an element of being provocateur as well but that should never ever justify the violence because I mean we're explain what you mean by being a provocateur

well for example holding an event in the middle of downtown titling it like an event Justice for victims of domestic terrorism and then having a picture of antifa like that is in a you know it's an inflator inviting them yes it's an infant you know it's causes a reaction so there's a you know there's a there's an element of coming in and seeing lots and rage these lunatics on the far left or whatever but at the same time I want to make sure the state that just because somebody says quote unquote provocateurs are worked in the words of the writing that it's unfortunate that people now find that that's justification for you to react violently well I think again it's a small percentage of people that find it this justification and you look at the number of people that were there what is it thousands thousands of people how many people actually

engage in violence small number but small number that's the problem it's important to note that they caught morale from the crowd whooping cheering them on the cowards the cowards who don't disavow this horrific action they cheered them on laughed and clapped as I was getting beaten and then the other thing about the people showing up in numbers who don't engage in the violence is they provide they are like literal human Shields they dress the same so they make it easy for the few violent militants 292960 crowd exactly and these people also watch the cops and they keep an eye out on potential Outsiders as well and that's become a game it's become a game it's become a gigantic team War there's our team versus their team it's Mike it's literally like playing a child hood game

it's really disturbing man and so since this has anyone from antifa apologized but what happened to you or disavow the actions of these few extreme violent people of course not and see if it has an iron fist on the people who support its movements they don't allow any type of design actually in there like press releases you can call call them they explicitly state that even basically even if you disagree with those tactics you will not publicly state it it's to create I guess this image of unity right for a quote unquote even if you disagree inside the organization yes so how organized are they they are able leader they're interested and if as we understand it today really crystallized only after 2016 there's been very little academic research until how they actually organized but basically as a movement they have essentially cells

across the country that semi-autonomous United by an ideology of Anarchy anarcho-communism and their support for violence so it's not so much a group itself it's the people who are part of that movement are drawn from other actual groups they draw from the DSA they draw from various workers unions other Anarchist groups and like other terrorist entities they have processes to radicalize sympathizers essentially they have their own literature as well and so it's much more organized than people give them credit for they think of them as just you know people showing up to fight on the street at this this meaning to that to that violence and there's literature to back it up and they have you know the actively recruit people to join the movement so

I've been asked like do you think the federal authorities should stop in my response is I think it's come to the point that they do because with antifa it's not it's beyond what local authorities can do because a lot of these people a lot of them are in Portland from Portland a lot of them come from for example from Eugene from Seattle from neighboring areas that have other anti for people come in to participate in the violence for that day or to help out and then they go back to where they're from so they're coming in and out of jurisdictions makes it hard for one local body of authorities to dress it I think the doj needs to step in I think it's gotten to that point but and with 20/20 coming up soon there could be potential for a lot more political violence if the results don't if the elections results don't go as he wish well that's a an obvious point considering the fact that this all became

thing after Trump was elected yes with the if the doj did step in what do you think they could do

so that's well I mean do you believe in the the ability to meet up and express yourself publicly and the the ability to protest and the ability to just get together and have groups and you know Express Yourself yes however that's not just what antifa does right like I said the violence is a feature of the movement so what federal Authority when you can do to stop you that when you say the violence is a feature of your their movement is there is it do they have anything written like the tenants of their movement where they say that violence is acceptable

there's a book called The anti-fascist Hand book is written by Mark Bray he's an academic at Dartmouth he is I would call him went to anti fuzz Chief I do a long so not only does he explain what anti-fur does and it in his writings is makes it very clear that the the quote unquote self-defense is what justifies the offense of violence he actually argues why that's ethical so because he's an academic well-spoken he's invited onto mainstream media to explain to basically like I said earlier mainstream antifa what can you explain what he says

yes I highly recommend that people take a look at his book the Attorney General of Minnesota Keith Ellison was photographed a year ago holding holding up that book of anti Foot Book and that kind of went he's been criticized a bit for that he deleted that in the shaft of my beating was holding it up in support yeah he said this he said something about like this book or antifa strikes fear Into the Heart of Donald Trump yeah so there's people in government who has sympathetic to enter fell asleep this professor can explain what he says

he outlines and explains essentially why and his vows violence is ethical that it's because they're opposing fascism and fascism is a violent movement this is sort of a pre-emptive move like we have this word fascism yeah it is a problem right yes because it seems like that's definitely something you should oppose but what is the what's the actual definition of fascism

fascism as a far-right political ideology from what I understand is the definition Jamie so we could just read what fascism with the actual word fascism means here form of radical right-wing authoritarianism authoritarian ultra-nationalism characterized by dictatorial power forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th century Europe forcible suppression of put it back up please forcible suppression of opposition is what they're doing yes strong regimentation of society mean they're literally telling people how to behave and what they will tolerate I know it's not right wing ideology but it's almost like Fascism and I'm sure there's other definitions of fascism

the idea of supporting someone who opposes fascism sounds wonderful sounds great let's stop fascism but are we really experiencing authoritarian ultra-nationalism characterized by dictatorial power in this country I mean is that is that a fair thing to say I know people don't like Donald Trump I know people don't like right-wing ideologies running this country I understand that but this is not it's not what's happening you have the issue like fascism as defined by political theorists who have been researching this for decades it has a particular definition in meaning and that's I think that summarizes it pretty well I'm very concerned that people use it so flippantly to just refer to the right or to even authoritarianism like there's much more to it than just being authoritarian there's all the other components and I need it needs it's important to state that anti fuzz not just

oh so far right or the right there are also against liberal democracy there's a reason why they hate the police so much hate border enforcement and hate the rule of law it's their against the idea the concept of the nation-state as we understand it and they're working to dismantle that to delegitimize it so this is what I mean when I say it's a it's a dangerous ideology that for now you know enemy of my enemy is your is your friend but at some point if this movement becomes bigger more mainstream and more people are sympathetic at some point it's going to come back against the moderate left because these people

they want to see the destruction of the nation did once he destruction of the nation state for what purpose they want Anarchy yes so there are political analysts Anika social anarchists they don't want borders they don't want Nations they don't want police okay what do they want

B I mean what do they expect what's the ultimate goal they seem to believe in

a utopian utopian Marxist ideas right of this restriction redistribution of wealth where we can be we can only be truly equal and egalitarian when we dismantle everything about the country so not just you know it's institutions rule of law but the state itself like everything just has to be broken down and start over because irredeemable I'm not quite sure if I mean they you know antifa I can't think of like where they have had if there's any somewhat comparable examples around the world of what it looks like for them to do State Building right so we don't know what it would actually look like but I mean the examples we see from these smaller anecdotes has is chaos and Anarchy like absolute chaos and violent suppression of opposing views

indiscriminate violence at times I wonder and what I've been asking over and over is how many more people have to be drawn into have to be victims of this violence before something changes and I put in Portland now we've had three years of this and literally no policy changes have happened no even proposals have even been accepted by the mayor the previous mayor was what was his political persuasion or her I don't even know these are all the people who become elected mayor importance are typically establishment Democrats right so they themselves are moderate very much you know in the vein of a Hillary Clinton type of thing but there's a constituency in Portland that they have to play to four votes which is the

radical people who are sympathetic to very very Progressive causes and so there's a reason why to date the mayor has never named down to for one time in any of his press conferences he has no problem blaming proud boys or Patriot pair of the right for issues Patriot prayer we got another group Patriot pairs one of the other right-wing movements and in and around Portland that have held pro-trump events in town that answer file comes to to fight and opposed

and how those turn out

they devolve into a riots

and the police allowed this

they allow it through their nachshon

wow

it's just it's interesting to see a city that's gone so far off the rails like Portland in this regard with this issue you know when you see this in action and what the consequences are now how it happens and is particularly for person like you you physically see a personally see it

are you going to continue to do these things

because it seems like you're obviously a Target now yeah and when I was asked this in my interviews this week last week the the the response that I that comes to my mind right away is of course I'm going to continue doing it I these people threaten me before I've been attacked before I'm not going to be cowed I'm going to continue I won't be intimidated but with the the brain injury that they gave me it's like I can't continue doing it the same way as I did before and being naive to think that police would actually uphold the rule of law they gave me a brain injury and like I never had one before but I'm dealing with some cognitive and neurological issues I will like what memory issues I have issues so I have upcoming physical the neuro physical therapy as well as speech therapy so as much as like on the surface I have improved a lot since the beating there are some long-term

consequences that I'm going to have to work through and

you know I have to be honest I have certain fears and anxieties of being important and I've continued received threats violent threats and they've been reported to police and just people promising to make sure next time that I won't even be able to walk away that they will repeat what happens to me when they see me on the streets so like have they caught the people that did this to you so it's been 10 days now more than 10 days since my beating there have been no arrests I don't know where the police are in the investigation they haven't been keeping me informed there was a photograph of someone they released yeah so the Portland Police released photos of potential suspects and asking for help in identifying one was on Mouse to to them were Mouse and I've got to say earlier that in addition to the the beating the Rob's me of my my camera equipment so that was my my evidence for that day and I tried so hard to hold on to it but I couldn't

what about you attending this with security if you thought about doing that yeah so moving forward once I feel well enough and once I'm cleared by the doctors it may be worth it to cover these events but with Professional Security gorillas big giant dudes yeah would they wear with like armor like what would you have

how far would you take this

I don't know what how far do you think I should take it I don't think you should go to those things anymore okay I mean it seems like you've been I mean it is part of your job you're a journalist but it seems like you've been singled out and targeted and seems like they don't have any problem justifying attacking you and assaulting you if I was going to go I'd bring the biggest baddest dudes that I could find and a bunch of them now I'm surround you and have them protect you but said tell you about America that in 2019 think it's America it's this one particular area and this one particular group and not even the group I think it's the most ridiculous people in that group I don't think it's most I think most of these people that probably are part of this really don't want fascists and they really don't want some awful right ring totalitarian regime running this country and in marginalized people of color gay people and immigrants and all those things that I support a hundred

and I'm left wing mean I would be on their side ideologically about a lot of things it's the implementation of it that I have the biggest problem with it is the group mentality it's the wearing the masks the salts so not understanding the consequences of violence all these things this is what I have a problem with the way the mayor allows us to take place the way handcuffs the police that that is what I have a problem with it's not that they don't want horrible people running the government and running the world I understand that that make sense but you're not for the dismantling of the nation-state right nope no no I'm not or the breakdown of democracy no yeah so these are the points that I'm trying yeah to head on those are the points that are hidden right these are important things that make up the ideology events if I and the larger those who are sympathetic because of the anti-fascist aspect of the anti right wing they are ignorant of it and yeah I hope to become aware of that I think that's what's important about your work

that's what's important about these discussions that's it's important about people getting the word understanding what this really means Not What It Seems on paper it's like we're the anti-nazi movement well who the fuck could go against that of course your anti-nazi that's know who everybody should be that's what it seems like well we're anti-fascist good we don't want fascists I think that's what Chris Cuomo was saying I think that's what Don Lemon was saying I think they're too busy I don't think they're really investigating this I don't think they're deep diving and understanding the ideology at its core the way you're describing it and whoever that Professor was that you were discussing that is somehow or another condoning violence that that is ridiculous anyone who considers themselves an intellectual who condones violence all this punch and Nazi stuff God damn it you don't understand violence you don't know what you're talking about you don't understand The Human Condition because if you understood violence it's the last thing you would ever be calling for

can I talk about the next step of what's next for sure so a lot of people listening and are frustrated and have expressed support are asking well what can I do I'm just one person in this is the power now we live in time where there's crowdfunding and you know with all the points that we brought up earlier it seems to show a lot of evidence to suggest that there's something seriously wrong in the upper echelons of policing and governing in Portland and that's what the legal fund is so I'm working with huh meet Dylan she represented James the more she's taking me on as a first client for the nonprofit that she started called if you go to Publius Lex publ I you SLE x.com you'll see information for how you can donate and anything helps and we're trying we you know

if they happen against the city or mayor or Police Department cost a lot of money and takes a lot of time takes you know there's a lot of overhead costs in the amount of people you know you have to take in to do all the investors to do your investigations so there's an opportunity for the public to get involved you know I don't want the story to pass just about Andy got beat up so what let's move on but rather there's systemic issues happening in Portland and their implications for the rest of the country what do you think is going on with media that is supporting this attack on you because I've seen so many journalists dismiss this as being not a big deal why do you think that anybody would look at something like that or someone's being beaten publicly and not think it's a big deal what do you think's behind that

extremist ideologies are very good a dehumanizing the opposition and that's what anti-fur does so there's been a lot of disinformation misinformation put out about me you know I'm not I'm not they say for example I'm not really journalist I'm just far-right provocateur I'm somebody who's sympathetic to Nazis and so when you put these ideas out that not only are lies but I meant to

remove ones Humanity they just become you know like and he's no longer a D&E is the face of far-right ideology and it makes people feel comfortable with violence against that and it was so disheartening to see so many writers come out and say things like you know I don't really support what happened to Andy but he's done far worse or he was provocateur his writings like he came and he got exactly what he was looking for what happened to me should happen to nobody much less a journalist right like this is an American in a major American city we're not you know this is not in Afghanistan or Iraq where the state is weak we have a strong State we have police force why are the law is not being enforced why our citizens having to suffer why do you know arrests why they no arrests

it's really absurd

and it's obscene yeah

when is the next one of these things supposed to take place on the 17th of August is supposedly the next event I think the probable is have announced that they're encouraging all of their members across the country to fly into Portland and it's always fucking Portland yeah they're kind of reacting I think to the 29th of June so

we'll see what happens I'm concerned are you going to go

I don't know you should go and get a popemobile yeah but I'm throwing milkshakes at the popemobile

get a big old fish tank put some wheels on it how some giant dudes push you around

the I'm joking around about it obviously to try to make light but some do you really think you're going to go

I don't know if I feel safe and I hate you shouldn't feel safe well I hate using the language of the identitarian left you know like I feel unsafe and all that I'm trying to remain rational okay but you were a salt yeah twice and I continue to receive threats you were assaulted what met yesterday near assaulted again in June yeah yeah so

and you can send continue to receive threats

is this necessary to go to these things to cover them

do you think my state part of the problem with people that like Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo who are talking about this who haven't actually been there the really don't understand it and maybe you do because you're covering it with boots on the ground you got it you know when you're all the way in New York City and you up for the elite media and you always even when you travel to protest you have a very large crew of security around you it does it removes you a bit from the reality of the situation and I don't think any of these people who are opining on these mainstream media television shows have actually embedded themselves to covering these violent riots that are happening in Portland OR in Berkeley

how many of the people that are involved in antifa do you think really understand that they're trying to dismantle the government really understand that they want the state to absolve dissolve I don't have a number for that it's definitely small it's the same people who engage it would probably be around those who are engaging in violence and those who are eating in that violence for example creating Shields or whatever allowing them to hide among them those people I think understand very much what the ideology is those people who come unmasked you know in just read the the Facebook event page opposed fascist come protect Portland those people I think are ignorant of the ideology behind the movement and groups that are organizing these events I can't put a number on that and this is like where they needs to be researched by academics and think tanks to look into in this is where Federal authorities because need to be looking into as well like how are they organized

the businesses that are helping them fund some of the causes because they you know when some of their member members get arrested they have money for bail Who's involved in funneling that money who's helping to to disperse their literature that they used to radicalize people like these are this requires research and intelligence gathering and as far as I know it's not being done there's a real concern among some people that were entering a phase of this country where it there's a real possibility

of having some sort of a civil unrest Civil War

when you see something like these Portland events when you see this kind of Chaos

do you think that that's a valid concern

not for something that is across the country but perhaps very Regional or to the city itself and not so much like Civil War but the violence that is done and planned by antifa it's meant to make the wider public not just polarizing hate each other but also began to distrust them to institutions that are in place that I meant to uphold democracy so the police in Portland have come under Fire for example not just from the radical left but a lot of people who are normally very Pro police are finding like what is wrong it's important police like we can't even trust them so there's

if things just continue I think the violence will continue to escalate leading to a death or death that's my real concern is my real concern as well and you think this is particularly unique to Portland in the way they're treating in addressing it

I'm trying to think of comparable other cities that have had some of these issues so for example in San Jose and 2016 Trump supporters when they were leaving a trump rally were brutally assaulted by mobs of people and then there was a lawsuit that was launched against the city for basically putting citizens in the way of danger the way they were funneled outside of this event led them directly in front of these violent protesters who attacked them you know in those footage that went viral of that year since then policing tactics have changed in San Jose as far as I know and you know involved the lawsuit so

like sometimes it takes lawsuits for

the local government to start protecting the people's civil rights so right now as bad as it is it does seem confined to Portland we haven't seen that for example in Berkeley the type of violence as in 2017 when Milo cane like you know that hasn't been repeated for a year and a half now so

but it takes the political will of those in power to enforce the law right so you mentioned lawsuits what lawsuits are you pursuing will immediately right now what I would like to see is the city of Portland carry out a full investigation and hold accountable all those who were involved in attacking me or aided in as well and then as the evidence where the evidence leads if this shows that there were was dereliction of Duty from those in power then

you know I reserve my judgment my lawyer is a judgment for you know who if anyone gets sued at that point but right now I'm very focused on seeing that in putting pressure on the city to arrest people who are responsible and charge them in get convictions as well all right in cause I know you got to get out here is there a silver lining to any this I mean do you think that perhaps your assault and the fact that the police didn't intervene is actually allowing people understand the real significance of this the real problem of this that it's this is a real issue a gigantic one in fact that goes against the core tenants the value of free expression and and the ability to gather and communicate safely in public yeah as hot as it was for me to see a silver lining when I was laying in hospital with so much pain there is one and that is that

everybody paid attention to what happened to me it was a big story even the mainstream liberal press could not ignore it

and I'm hoping that from that it goes beyond just being a headline but forcing the national discourse to change on how it views and talks about antifa we'll see if that happens

the I feel encouraged that we're beginning to see some cracks in the way that anti-fur has been protected by sympathetic writers and journalists in those are mainstream media I mean the fact that Keith Ellison deleted that photo that he showed a year ago right after that was attacked I think indicates that there's even he faces a certain pressure that it may not be good for a mainstream politician too

so actively promote this movement

and I hope it continues to move in that direction if you had a crystal ball and you were looking at the future what do you what do you think you'd see

well based on the press release press conference Optima did two days ago and not sure not having any proposals it seems like more violence has to happen

all right Andy I hope you're wrong me too but thank you for being here my pleasure all right take it easy thank you stay safe out there with thank you smile too

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that's it friends for today we'll see you soon bye bye mwah