#1315 - Bob Lazar & Jeremy Corbell

Jun 20, 2019

Bob Lazar is a physicist who worked at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, and also on reverse engineering extraterrestrial technology at a site called S-4 near the Area 51 Groom Lake operating location. Jeremy Corbell is a contemporary artist and documentary filmmaker. Watch the documentary "Bob Lazar: Area 51 & Flying Saucers" now streaming on Netflix.

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I'm very excited about this podcast this is a subject that I myself has been has been I myself have been looking into this subject for more than 20 years I have always been fascinated by UFOs obsessed is probably a better word when I was younger and reluctantly interested in them as I got older and recently a documentary brought me right back in the documentary was from Jeremy Korbel it's a Vero it's available right now on Netflix it's called Bob Lazar Area 51 and flying saucers Bob Lazar is a guy

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who according to him worked on spacecrafts from out of this world

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I know it sounds crazy I know it's like what are you wasting my time with this fucking nonsense listen the documentary is so compelling and so interesting and Bob Lazar has been telling this same story for so long he's taken polygraph test he's been proven to be correct on many of the different things that he said over the years that people were calling bullshit on

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I don't know

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what really happened but this man's story is incredibly compelling and it was very difficult to get him here

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he has been harassed and hounded and persecuted for decades from this story credit to George Knapp from Las Vegas the independent investigative journalist rather who broke this story many many decades ago

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many many years ago I should say

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this is a big one it's intense and I'm talking too much so let's just get to it please welcome Jeremy Korbel and the Great and Powerful Bob Lazar The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day

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first of all cheers Gentlemen let's have a little toast relax Bob thank you very much for doing this I really appreciate it I understand that you've told the story many many times you've been grilled many many times and it's very stressful for you so I really really appreciate your time for people who don't know the story there's documentary Jeremy Korbel has a documentary out right now it's called Bob Lazar Area 51 and UFOs and flying saucer and flying saucers are 51 and flats okay I first heard your story decades ago I've got I told you last night we went out to dinner I've seen pretty much every interview I've ever given followed the story incredibly closely but for people who don't know the story let's give them the bullet points you

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used to work at Area 51 and Area 51 God you went like that well you know we want to be accurate so Carrie S 4 S 4 okay about 15 miles south of Area 51 okay but you worked in what would do how would you describe it I guess within the area 51 compound you can call that a subset of Area 51 and you got that job he's before that you were working before that I had worked at Los Alamos right National Labs in New Mexico and you were involved in what kind of work the nuclear weapon development physics I mean that's they do everything there so how do they approach you to say hey Bob want to come on out to the Nevada desert

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well the way this went down was

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at that time I was 1982 I had put a jet engine in my my Honda and Los Alamos put it on the front page of the paper said you know Los Alamos man physicist at the lab you know built this 200 mile an hour you know hondajet car that I drove to work every day so so I was known in Los Alamos so the guy with the weird car and you know you could hear it from you know a mile away anyway

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the day that came out on the front page of the paper was the day Edward Teller the father of the hydrogen bomb was giving a lecture down there at the lab and we didn't have much going on that day in our group and I asked if I could go down there and I went down there early and at teller was outside leaning on a brick wall there and reading the front page of the paper now there's a guy out of History so I introduced myself am the guy you're reading about there and we talked for a little while and it was cool you know fast forward two years later I had moved out to Las Vegas and had you know left Los Alamos and you know went on to other things and I wanted to get back into the scientific Community yeah I left start other businesses and

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and that sort of thing so I sent resumes out and one of them went out to Ed teller and referenced our meeting

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you know back at back in that the day and anyway he remembered me and gave me a reference somebody to contacted eg&g and that's pretty much how it started so you get a phone call or a letter like what do you get

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well I got a what did I get I got a letter initially and went down for an interview probably a couple times and it was down at eg&g special projects which was at McCarran airport at that time out in Las Vegas and did they give you any sort of job description what you are applying for they said it was forever I can't remember exactly what they did this was a long time ago but I think it was Advanced propulsion or something like that something relatively generic and they said it's in a remote area you know it's going to be some days on some days off and you know it was kind of a it was kind of not exactly a full-time job but you might have to be out there for two weeks at a time and take two weeks off so it was kind of a the work schedule would be kind of broken up and do the seem attractive to you or did it seem weird weird

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wasn't weird because people that work at the test site anybody that's familiar with the area up there you know working at the nuclear test site or at the Tonopah test range North of there that's typically how things go so you had known about it from the scientific Community because it Area 51 at that time was no they didn't say anything about Area 51 okay so they just said it was in a you know in a remote location and you just know it was up at the test site right so but there was no mention of Area 51 at that time so they've done hundreds of nuclear tests in Nevada Nevada that whole area was there's been this giant chunks of Nevada the people yeah there's a big piece of Nevada and it's split up into different areas there's a nuclear test site there's Area 51 there's the Tonopah test range North of that there's little sub areas there's areas where they test chemical weapons and things like that so it's all broken up as a you know gigantic test area so take me back to first day on the job

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you accept a job they take you out there yeah it's

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the first day really I didn't really get to see a whole lot the first day was essentially just paperwork that's when I flew into Area 51 proper and I left McCarran airport and flew what they call the Janet flights just

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you know a passenger plane from Las Vegas to Area 51 and it was really just going through a mountain of paperwork that day from security clearances to God there was it was like two or three hours of just solid paperwork and that was that was really an uneventful first day when did things get weird

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when did you realize that at what point in time did you say hey this is not normal work like this doesn't even seem like it's from this planet that I can't tell you what day that occurred on because so much time has gone by the days of kind of fused into one and I can't separate the days was it a slow burn or was there a moment of recognition well they're the

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the first inkling I had was when I came at normal there's this facility that is at S4 it's in the side of a mountain and normally we had pulled in with the bus and gone around the front through a normal double door

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this time that I went in there were Hangar doors open I went into the hangar door and in the hangar door was the disc the Flying Saucer that I worked on I saw it sitting there and we walked by it had a little American Flag stuck on the side and I thought oh my God this finally explains all the Flying Saucer stories this is just an advanced fighter and at this is fucking hilarious right so I went by I slid my hand alongside it I got reprimanded immediately for touching the thing and there was a guy an armed guard that followed us in and she said keep your eyes at forward and your hands at your side and just walk in the door so that was the first time I'd seen anything that was weird

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it was sometime later that I was introduced to my my lab partner Barry and we had some of the subcomponents of the craft in the lab and Barry was very anxious to get a new lab partner so he was very talkative and couldn't wait to show me different things and it was in the demonstration of the reactor working where it caught my attention to where

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this is technology that doesn't even exist

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so I mean that was the first time I knew that this is really something different what was it what was it what was it what was it about this reactor that made you think that it didn't exist

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technologically well it was that I actually have to back up because there were some briefings that I read it before that that you know certainly gave me the impression that this is going to be a weird job but this was the first Hands-On thing this was a small reactor about the size of a hemisphere about the size of a basketball on a metal plate and when it was running it produced a gravitational field the gravitational field of it so now this is something that we can't do we can't produce any Gravity the only way we get gravity is from large quantities of mass but there's no machine we can have the turns on that makes gravity like you know you can turn on electromagnet and it makes a magnetic field we can't make a gravitational field anyway this device was producing that and Barry said it's almost like he was bragging go ahead try and try and touch the sphere and I I couldn't it would push my hands away just like to like poles of a magnet so that was so like when you take too much

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listen trying to press them together and yeah you have that each other yeah kind of cushion feeling but you can't you can't get them together the closer you put them the more they push button you felt that physics with my hand yeah now there's nothing there's nothing that does that and that immediately caught my attention going wow this is something else what was your thought like when you felt that and you knew that there was nothing that you're aware of that could pretend that that connected me to the briefings that I read on the first day at S4 was that you know everything that I had read was apparently accurate what were you reading I read it was kind of an overview this project was to back engineer

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the alien craft and specifically it was to try and back engineer and see if we can duplicate the technology with available materials

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now to do this they split the project into many different pieces for several reasons they do this on all classified project so nobody has the complete story but they compartmentalize everything that we had the power and propulsion system so what briefings they gave me were like a one or two page overview of some of the other projects that we're going on you know on the craft the only reason they do that is just in case what you're working on is connected intimately in some way that we don't know of to one of the other projects you have to know whether excuse me their existence so

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you know I but again they have everything from Metallurgy to you know weapon potential the craft and these were all you know essentially very short briefings but mine was just power and propulsion and it made it very clear that what I read was accurate so when you're reading that before you actually saw the reactor what were your thoughts on what they were describing

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if you knew that something like that didn't exist and they're describing it in the briefings what did you think you were going to see I really I didn't know at the time I mean I was reading I thought is this some kind of test see if you crazy well not to see if I'm crazy too you know a lot of times they'll take in real high security jobs I mean they'll intentionally insert non sense into him whether it's to confuse the fact or if for someone was to leak it out they would carry that information along and know where it came from so I read through the documents but you know I didn't know if this was you know part of some kind of test

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you know or what or was it potentially realistic I mean I'd really didn't consider it being all that possible as far as being the actual thing that I was going to work on at the time how did they turn it on there the reactor yeah you reacted can be turned on or turned off in a lot of different ways the way Barry showed me at the hemisphere is removed there is a small Tower in the middle when you put the hemisphere on the reactor activates the reactor shuts down its load sensing so if there's if there's no load on the reactor at all it shuts down when there's a load present on it it starts up again load meaning you can consider it an electrical load so

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although it doesn't necessarily operate electrically there's no wiring that connects any of the sub components together whatsoever they just have to be in the immediate vicinity it's a it is the stuff is borderline magic and that's essentially where we left it you know when I left the project so there was no progress made there was some progress I mean we did identify at least we think some processes and and had a rough idea we think of what was going on but I think this is a problem that they've had for a long time and you know I was replacing somebody that Barry worked with prior to me and I think there was some horrific accident that I didn't have a whole lot of information on but you know Barry alluded to that horrific accident what we're someone died or yeah where somebody died because they were trying to tamper with things or figure out how something worked yeah the reactor in

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our but Yeti let you touch it yeah I think what they were trying to do was cut into one now they had they had more than one there and I that was supposedly there was an unannounced nuclear test and that's what it was at the time remember they were still doing underground nuclear test at the test site but from what I understand according to Barry there was an attempt made now this is must have been a pretty desperate attempt because it's not a very scientific process to cut you know analyze something that way but it looked like they used a plasma cutter or something I got to cut into an operating reactor how many of these things did they have they had nine nine craft all together I only got Hands-On with one of them so I can't really say what the hell the others operated by see the other ones yeah at one time and only one time the bay doors that between the hangars were all open and I could see all the way through

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in where they all exactly the same no they were all different different shapes yeah but they were all from somewhere else yeah absolutely now did anyone make any attempt to explain or to to tell you where they came from no no one is the least bit interested in letting everybody know all the facts they want to give you the minimum information that's necessary to complete your task so you're not getting the story of where they came from you're not getting the story of what how much progress other people are making you just focus on the small component but they give you some indication that they've been working on these for a while yeah when do you think they acquired these I really couldn't say I think they've been around for a while

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so they bring you into this room you see this reactor working you you realize this is nothing that as far as like the scientific community at current time has the ability to create ways L don't what is your life like from that moment on is that where everything changes because you do I mean I would imagine the moment you actually make contact with something that's extraterrestrial whether it's an object or a being something where you can actually absolutely be certain it's not from here your whole Paradigm the whole world you live in is now a different place well this is the only time it became exciting you know the rest of the time they're it was really an ominous feeling being at work but at that time it was exciting I mean this was now I knew we were on the absolute be I actually be on The Cutting Edge of Science and I was I was so absolutely excited to be there

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every single time I was you know it with this was a fantastic opportunity and however in short order it began to concern me we really have no idea what we're talking about and the excitement kind of turned to dread at some point because the amount of power were dealing with is astronomical I mean to affect gravity to produce the effects like this equipment does takes huge amounts of power and I've given the

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example before of you know taking a small portable nuclear reactor and you know putting it back into Victorian times you know with the scientists of the time and just dropping it on a room and they come and look at it and see that it's producing power and wonder how it works at least start taking it apart and as soon as they get some of the shielding off the people are going to drop dead because of the radiation inside now the people have no idea that irradiation even exist back then but anybody that comes in to check on him will also drop dead and you know there's no reason that that exact scenario couldn't happen with what we're dealing with we have no idea how the physics operate within this thing the power levels are are like I said astronomical like it's incredibly dangerous to Tinker with something like that and you know in some respects we were guinea pigs just try to find out how to make this thing so that it had a series as

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as you surmised that a series of different scientists try to back engineer this thing try to figure out what this thing was and they would bring in new people and like let's throw Bob at it yeah yeah and they know I don't know how many but I knew they were certainly one before me and I knew he died during the analysis of the are the reactor itself and

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you don't know how many have worked on it and no one gave any could have been there for 50 years it could have been there for five years and they giving you instructions what are they saying like when they're giving you Direction the showing you all this stuff like what what are they saying what specifically what are they asking of you well as Anjali what they ask is is what I said all we are just to gather as much information as possible find out how it operates and see if we can duplicate it so but they never really showed you where it was from they never let you ask questions about where it's from well

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if the information I read in the briefings was accurate now what I do have to say is the information that pertain directly to the reactor was accurate what I read

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did I mean did jive with reality in terms of how in terms of how it was made how what we saw how it operated the materials that would you know turned on and what was discovered discovered about it I'm sorry the migraine is really making it hard for me to think sorry no and we talked up before the podcast you tell her buddy Bob was getting a migraine I know you're very stressed out by this which is one of the reasons why I appreciate you doing this where was I already we're talking right the point it and so there was some paperwork that indicated that this was from The Zeta reticuli star system now

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yeah now how they obtained that I haven't I haven't the slightest idea but it wasn't just from The Zeta reticuli least our system it was what they called zr3 so it was a third planet in that star system so there was no other information about it other than that supposedly where the craft came from now is that true I don't know I have no way of verifying that but that was printed in the same materials that reference the reactor now I looked that stuff up when I went home and Zeta reticuli as a binary star two stars that orbit orbit one another and it's only visible in the Southern Hemisphere and it's about 30 some odd light years away so that's literally all the information I have about that I don't know how they found out it came from there and you also probably have some suspicions that they give you some disinformation like you were talking about before where they would yeah yeah II mean if you ever decided to talk about this they add in a bunch of nonsense to make whatever is

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look ridiculous right or be able to trace it down like okay this fax came out and you know this Lazar guy said okay you know came from Zeta reticuli so they knew it was when we met red Zeta reticulan we like what in the fuck is this well reading all of this stuff it was one of the fuck is that you like why did I sign up for this week no no I wouldn't it to me this was cool this is interesting I said I was just excited to be out in a secure area you know in the middle of the desert as a dress is awesome how old are you in time I guess I was in my 20s yeah she probably totally geeked out oh yeah it's that this was this was great I mean I was excited so I didn't care I was reading through everything and so you read through all the Zeta reticuli thing but then when you see the actual Starship with the little American flag sticker on it well that was

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is that later or before

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that that was before so before so you see the thing before and you say oh this is where that before it's hard so many years yeah I can't either way it doesn't matter the days of fused together it's so hard to separate what happened in each visit to remember the thought process when you read that it's from Zeta reticuli yeah it didn't hit me like a ton of bricks or anything it was just like yeah okay as he was bullshit I don't know you just were like now I don't I mean because when I read it I hadn't verified anything and this was just a bunch of stuff I was reading and I thought maybe after this they're just going to give me a test and see what I can remember and write crazy information and then it would but like I said when I finally went in with Barry

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and add hands-on experience with what they were talking about it's not gone a completely different meaning so there's a plate there's this thing that looks like a half a basketball and when it's on you can't come anywhere near it you can't touch it right how is what is gravity about that like the eye of the concept of gravity in most people's gravity's bringing something towards it right well I guess you would say it anti-gravity its gravity shifted a hundred and eighty degrees it's a you know any gravity and did they have any understanding about what could possibly create this effect did they have any areas with a like you to look into no they

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well they knew there was a fuel source in it and they were proficient at making it work and again my analogy to something like this as you can drop a motorcycle off in the Wagon Train days and just leave it with the keys parked outside you know somebody's plays everybody will come around it and they'll poke and prod and eventually they'll turn the key get it to start and become proficient at writing it yeah but they won't be able to understand what the hell's going on they won't be able to make the plastic Fender much less anything else and I think that's exactly the state we were at we played around with the parts long enough before I got there where they could make the reactor operate take the fuel out and know that it makes it work how exactly what was going on in the reactor remained a mystery at the time I think we made some progress on what was going on inside but I don't think

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anybody really knew anything they could just watch what was going on and make note of it how long were you there I'd say about six months or so and what progress was made was made while you were there well we came up with a bunch of

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reasonably good ideas about how the reactor worked and one of them was the base the square base of it was essentially like a cyclotron which is a small particle accelerator a circular one particle accelerators linear particle accelerators are just you know long tube essentially in the accelerate particles with high voltage and you know radio frequencies till they reach high speeds but a cyclotron does that and a small circular area and there's this very heavy element fuel element 115 something that wasn't on our periodic charts at the time but it is now it is now yeah when did it become on the periodic table now the way the charts now and I don't remember do you remember when they 2004 Durham stat Germany I think is where they first fabricated for Adams that lasted two and twenty milliseconds the atoms it's nothing right and then it later was discovered a couple more times they could fabricate it then they gave it they gave it

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place then on the Periodic Chart after that called it Muscovy mmm so they told you about this stuff in 1982 yeah well we kind of 82 what year was this it was 80 88 and 89 when I was there 82 is 189214 Los Alamos I'm sorry yeah so 8089 they told you about this stuff so this was not like now they didn't they didn't tell me about it that's one of the things that this group came up with the

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I keep losing my train of thought with this thing so this one area of this

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this element 115 was the fuel yeah it was the fuel

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the world will forgive you for having a migraine I could I guess it's really hard to think through should I give me a minute which could give you more precise 81 yeah definitely as I said one thing you know about for the last 30 years people have just been on the attack on Bob you know getting to know him the personal effects on his life it's really hard to understand unless you meet his family and his wife I mean this is the last thing he wanted to fucking do was have to talk yeah we should explain that Jeremy the you and I had this conversation I watched a documentary we had this conversation and I said I have to talk to him yeah the document there was there's been detractors there's been a bunch of people that called bullshit on many things that you've said but over time many of the things that you talked about even in the 80s have proven to be true things that people said we're not true were proven to be true Element 115 was one of them

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right right right Element 115 the fuel they had was stable in other words it didn't Decay it wasn't emitting radio activity when they synthesized two or three atoms of the 115 it did Decay and it was not a stable element so they're they're kind of two different things but this is kind of typical elements always have or pretty much always have stable isotopes and unstable Isotopes like I think cesium has like 30 unstable Isotopes to it so well hydrogen for example you're familiar with hydrogen gas it's stable it's not radioactive but there's also two other types of hydrogen deuterium and tritium and deuterium isn't radioactive it's another stable isotope of hydrogen but tritium is radioactive now they're all hydrogen but they just have a different amounts of neutrons so it's the same thing with other elements and element

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15 depending on the amount of neutrons that has designates the isotope but it's 115 they will continue to take or experiment and try and make 115 at different isotopes and I'm sure eventually they'll come up with a stable version but it's the taste stable version that has the properties that were talking about so they somehow or another had acquired a stable version did they say that the stable version had come with this craft it absolutely came with the graft yeah so at the time you having a firm knowledge of the periodic chart and knowing what was real and what wasn't real what was your reaction to having this stable element 115 that wasn't even supposed to exist well everything was impossible right I mean down down to the metal I did get a chance to look inside the craft on only one occasion and this was important because we're the reactors sat might have been critical to how it

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operated since everything operates without any interconnections so the placement of components might be critical so they allowed me to go inside and and look at it again I forgot where the hell I am so you're going into this craft and what do you thinking when you're inside of it like what are you seeing it's it's a very ominous feeling because it's there are no efforts about everything is one color it's like a dark pewter color and there are no right angles anywhere it's as if somebody took I've said this before somebody took a model out of and fashioned it out of wax and then heated it just for a short time so everything melted everything looks like it's fused together everything is a radius of curvature or two items meet its it's a really weird looking thing but

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there was almost nothing other than a small foldable hatchway that that looked recognizable everything was was really unwieldy to pick on it way to describe it so you you get inside this thing and it's designed for something that's much smaller than a human being yeah you can't really stand up till you get to the very center of and how tall you I'm 510 and what do you think this was designed for I'd say something close to half my eye wow so these little three foot tall is creatures yeah and that the seats were small to I mean obviously it was made you know for something something small but there is no like there's there's nothing else in there there's just seat the reactor and some of the subcomponents there's no there's no control panels there's no bathroom there's no no decorative components or artwork or anything that you would recognize

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trim I mean it's just a very bare-bones thing you're not seeing any screens well there are archways around it at that a part of the superstructure and that one of the archways can become transparent when I was in there there was another group working on one of the archways and you could call that a screen more or less so through that Archway it would be it would maintain the solidity the solid whatever metal it was yeah but you could yeah it just became transparent yeah I saw that happen once or twice before I left did you ask any questions about what the fuck no there's no excuse no asking questions now but when you watch something become transparent and you realize it's still there where you could now see through it yeah I may not know that's not that impressive we do have some liquid Crystal materials that are like that you know they have seen them back SmartGlass yeah they call it smart class so this is just

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don't know if the craft is made of you know an advanced metal or a ceramic it was cold to the touch so you know I would lean more towards a metal you're not allowed to ask questions no the only they work on the buddy system so I can only exchange ideas and talk to Barry now this really interferes with science because Science is based on free discussion and ideally you get a bunch of guys together exchange ideas work on problems and that's how things move forward but they're so over-the-top concerned about security they split everything off and everybody becomes stagnant it it it just destroys any of the progress you can make or at least makes it go so slow they I think they wind up shooting themselves in the foot which is probably why they arrived at this bottleneck that they need to get this madman with a jet-powered Honda come in and see what he could do I think that was an act of desperation I

► 00:40:59

they wanted someone that's thinks out of the box and let's just give this guy a try here because they weren't and they might have done this four more times since you know up to the point in time today assuming they're still working on this thing and when you see this craft and your inside was there any indication that there was an area that they would use to control it the pilot was there a pilot seat where there's there were three seats they sat around the reactor was in the dead center of it and then equidistant around there were three seats so and that's all there was a large you would there not consoles there are large rectangular objects also spaced equidistant around the center there's nothing on them there's no buttons there's no lights there and they will troll same color the same everything is the same color different shape right and directly underneath them there's three levels in The Craft

► 00:41:59

the main level is what we're talking about directly under that those are the gravity amplifiers the big rectangular objects underneath them are the gravity emitters that look like for lack of a better word a trashcan hanging on a pipe three of those and then the top layer I've this is just my personal belief I think that has to do with a navigation or their version of a computer with some planar panels sensor panels around the craft that we would call portholes but they're not portholes they're just black areas and I think that just determines its

► 00:42:36

you know position in space but I was I physically was in the center section and I stuck my torso in the bottom section and hung upside down so I could see how the gravity amplifiers were positioned what is the the roughly the size of this thing it's a I think it I don't remember from being there but after all this stuff was over I had John Andrews a guy from the testers model Corporation and you know we sat down and tried to figure out from what I saw and known sizes of things and we came up with 52 feet in diameter

► 00:43:13

so I think that's a really small yeah so I think that's a fair reasonable guess now you said there's nine of them and you got a brief Glimpse at the other ones where the how are they different oh they looked completely different one looked like I called a Jello mold and it it looked like a classic Jello mold with the rippled sides to it one was a very flat disk you know like oh I don't like a straw hat or something like that that was sitting up on its Edge and the thin part of it had looked like a projectile had been fired through the edge of it so I don't know if they were attempting to see if the metal could be penetrated or if something or if that's where the thing came from maybe it was shot down but that was the only one where I saw there was you know actual physical damage to it and that one was roughly the same size they're all either they were kind of too far away to tell hmm and did

► 00:44:13

there were several teams that were working on the propulsion system so there's different PM's that were working on these different aircrafts I don't know I could only assume

► 00:44:24

now when you're sitting in this thing and you're looking at this otherworldly craft your your goal is to try to figure out how this thing functions your goal is try to figure out how this reactor I mean it would imagine they would give you more time than just one day to check that out oh yeah it wasn't one day right yeah I mean this is Barry was there I think Barry was sleeping there I'm sure they had that that isn't weird I mean I'll put the Tonopah test range where they work on stealth Fighters you know you go I think through weeks on one week off and you stay up there too so it's not weird to stay up with the test site so yeah I think he pretty with it didn't he acted like he's been up there for a long time yeah but still there yeah who knows do you do you have contact with this guy no no no I wish I did I kind of thought he was going to come out after I did right and I think I took so much flak

► 00:45:24

and it's so much shit for what went on I think I actually have wound up helping security there and everybody became afraid of you know doing or saying anything after that so what kind of reports did you have to give like so you're not making much progress right you're just trying to figure out what this thing is and it seems impossible so we didn't personally make them I mean we were always there was never a lot of information that we gained the guy you would call them our supervisor whose name was Dennis Mariani and kind of a military looking guy and he would routinely pop in you know during the day and you know hey what's going on guys and he would essentially relay any information anything new we came up with I mean he was our goal between where we presented him the information then he took it to wherever they were you know assembling all the data from everybody now assume you're working normal days I can eat

► 00:46:24

day no no no it was really weird that I would be only called in on certain times in certain days and they would be weird hours to most of the time was later in the evening I mean I can get a call at 11 o'clock at night and they'll say you know it's now 11 o'clock by 11:45 you need to be at McCarran terminal and you know we'll let you know when we have more information but what did you do while you were there if you're looking at this object this reactor and you can't figure out what it is or how it works other than the fact that works on this element that we don't even know about sure I mean the thing was to what you do and you know

► 00:47:09

with anything if you're trying to analyze it all you can do is perform tests and all we did is try and come up with every kind of test we possibly could I mean we tested you know it violated a lot of what we thought was impossible to violate I mean one of the first laws of thermodynamics I mean essentially any machine any device that operates always makes extra heat nothing works at a hundred percent efficient even the headphones you're wearing anything that takes power some of that power is going to be converted to heat and it's just wasted this didn't I mean we looked at back then we had infrared cameras they're different today but back then you had a pour liquid nitrogen into the camera to cool the sensor down and and get these infrared images you've seen but it never got no matter what the load was on the reactor it never got above the ambient temperature which is impossible I mean you're in

► 00:48:11

pulling out huge amounts of power and nothing ever gets warm we tried measuring magnetic fields and there was was nothing there so we started playing around with the emission from the emitters the gravity wave itself and saw what we could do with it and how it was focused so we really spent all our time just trying to see what the stuff can do and what we can control so you were seeing what it could do would you couldn't ever figure out how it was doing it no not really I mean we really we really could only use a come up with a best guess and now I can't say we really that I could absolutely state for certainly every certainty how anything actually worked now how did you know at all how they were piloting it because some they were doing some tests where there are having these

► 00:49:10

fly around in the sky and this is what gets us deeper into your story right

► 00:49:20

I was out there for one test right in fact I was in with Barry in the lab and Dennis came in and said we're about to run a test why don't you guys come out or I think he said Barry why don't you come out here and bring Bob with you we went out there and the craft was already outside the hangar and was just preparing to lift off now they were in communication with somebody in the craft so there's a person in the craft yeah there was certainly a person in there now it's not a comfortable place to be in because it's small so the guy has to be sitting on the floor in the middle my best guess and this is the same specific craft that you worked was because you were the that was the only craft that you weren't the only one that I touched and worked on

► 00:50:10

and it it quietly lifted off the ground which was incredibly impressive to see quietly or silently

► 00:50:17

what's well quietly because it makes the news and it produced a little Corona discharge from the bottom at Corona discharge is kind of a high-voltage brush little bluish glow discharge as it was lifting off the ground you can hear a slight hiss sound as soon as it cleared the ground by about 5 or 10 feet maybe even less than that the hissing stopped and the blue go disappeared so it lifted off quietly and then it hovered silently if you want to be specific wow so then what kind of Maneuvers are doing it took out for that particular time it took off moved a little round around to the left and right and then sat back down the

► 00:51:01

the craft itself they communicated with it with a wreck because I saw the guy talking and a regular VHF radio to the person in the craft and I even saw the frequency that was on the frequency counter of the communication the transceiver there but what's weird is he shouldn't be able to communicate with the craft with a radio the radio

► 00:51:32

the radio wave should bend around the craft I mean it shouldn't be possible every single thing about these the craft in the way they operated didn't make any sense to us I mean that's something we talked about for a while after why should the frequency bend around the craft well you really have to look at the way the gravity wave comes out of the craft as a the reactors in the center and there's a waveguide that goes up to the top there's actually a small appendage that sticks out of the top of the craft and it produces a heart-shaped gravitational Distortion around the craft now if the craft is sitting in the air and you walk underneath it and look up you actually cannot see the craft the light bends around it you're bending gravity bends light it bends radio waves it's it shouldn't be possible to communicate with a craft that has an envelope around it that's distorting all forms of energy but

► 00:52:32

they were apparently in contact with it somehow or another suit through some unexplained way that the young father explained to you so this thing gets up it just does some very simple Maneuvers left-right left-right goes down and did they discuss this with you I mean they said they wanted you to see it now like they just wanted know that they didn't discuss anything with me it's that it's that down we looked around for a bit and Barry said let's go back we went back in the lab all we got to do is see it fast forward to some months later I did have the test flight schedule of the craft now they had times they had designated high performance tests this obviously wasn't one that was a high performance test the high performance test went goes above the mountain range and they do much more radical moves with the thing look this is a prized item and they're not doing anything like taking it out of the atmosphere are flying around other countries or

► 00:53:32

that this they just play with this thing right over the test site but they were doing some radical moves with it and since I had the test flight schedule statistically

► 00:53:44

the amount of traffic and the surrounding areas on the highway was lowest on Wednesdays and that's why Den 8 Dennis told us that all the test flights occurred only on Wednesdays because it be the least chance that anyone would see what's going on and this was before the the government had expanded The Forbidden territory around Area 51 and Papoose Lake and all that stuff right yeah I think that occurred after my story came out then people started going up on the mountain tops and trying to look down into there and they kind of freaked out and then did the land grab and pushed everybody back but yeah that I think all that occurred long after I'm sorry that I came out so you're working there and while you're working there you're under this crazy schedule forgive me for explaining your story but you would get these phone calls you would have to go to the to the

► 00:54:44

airport at 11 p.m. and your wife start thinking that you were having an affair

► 00:54:50

yeah apparently so now I did give my permission to have you know as part of the you know security clearance process I gave written permission to have the phone's monitored and things of that sort so they weren't doing any covert stuff they you know with any Q clearance door which is civilian top secret clearance or military top secret clearance they go talk to friends and you know places you've been make sure you're not connected to foreign countries but you know monitoring your phone is nothing unusual however they insisted that you know you don't even talk to your loved ones your partner dear wife whatever about what's going on so she was essentially in the dark and didn't know the phone was being monitored well

► 00:55:40

part of the security clearance is that not only do you not have any connections to foreign countries in our no Maniac but you have to have a stable home life too well she started having an affair with a flight instructor now they were monitoring this on the phone and they knew it and I didn't so they stopped me coming in and their attitude at the time was we need to see how this is going to play out and if Lazar is going to get a little weird or anything so let's just you know hold them off from coming in and you know see what happens and they explain this to you what was happening well after the fact yeah cuz time kind of went on and there were guys that were following me around and I started getting a little concerned going well chitter they booted me out of the project and if so they're not just going to let me hang out at home and go get a new job no one what I know

► 00:56:40

so as time went on I started getting a little concerned and I took my closest friends and just kind of got together I said hey remember that job I told you about this is what's going on and you don't need to take my word for it Wednesday night we need to all go out here I want to show you what's going on so I took everybody and we went out to remember since I had the test flight schedule and went outside the base out into the desert and so everybody could see you know one of the high performance test and you know left quite an imprint on everybody so they knew I wasn't and this video is of these tests right yeah but remember this isn't that it's in in the dark in the 80s of the big monster sized camcorder and you got you know a bright light jumping around but yeah I mean we did video of it but there's no by today's standards it's but as your video specifically available the video that you took

► 00:57:40

well George Knapp has it it's is it all going down do you know I have no idea Jeremy yeah show clips of it in my film its online and someone did a deep analysis of it it was interesting to take a look at how this microphone up to face care about a fish from your face right you know to see how his video looks now but as far as video evidence I mean we are talking 80s campers in the most important thing is the human story here everybody that he took up there on three separate occasions they don't all like each other they don't all talk they all agree on one thing they saw something that night at the exact point in time and space that Bob Lazar said and remember this is 1715 70 miles south of Area 51 no one even knew really about Area 51 we're talking Papoose Lake and they all agree they saw something that night they had never seen before and they've never seen sense right when he said it so that's one of the like the six things where I'm like how did he know you can dismiss him I tried to dismiss it but some things we can't get around and there's about five or six

► 00:58:40

them how did he know about the if Jamie wants to find that video right now what would you look under Bob Lazar UFO s for Area 51 just kind of like that so it's like the set s for UFO video Bob Lazar and guy doesn't analysis but your and analyzing these 80s videos heat from the very beginning Bob never said I have proof of my story and I'm going to tell the world he said at the very beginning I cannot prove my story that's not why I'm telling this George Knapp convinced him to tell people and he lived through it and I didn't believe it either until I talked with George okay so you you film these this test flight one test flight and then you get caught actually it was I think the third time because we went out there the first time everybody saw it everybody was amazed because it did some radical Maneuvers and you know everybody had a lot to say but

► 00:59:40

is it I've seen I've seen the video It Doesn't I don't think there's something we have now that does that know in terms and like a human piloted craft and I don't know obviously with the governor no it's impossible nothing can move like that and remember we didn't start filming from the very beginning you know the court we were waiting for something you know to happen the craft took off and I came flying at a stop you know turned it Araya angle flew back and then you know after did some you know amazing stuff either to get the camera and then we started filming so it doesn't have all of it on there just has some the way I describe it to my friends and they said what is like I said take a laser pointer and then have a wall and then move it around the wall like you know how it moves around the wall it doesn't seem like it has anything to do with inertia or physics or it's not in impeded in any way by the atmosphere yeah that's what it looked like you're essentially separated from reality as crazy as that sounds with being in case it's a non-gravitational envelope inertia

► 01:00:40

is not going to affect it and you know this is this is how some of those recent sightings of Commander David favor I'm sure you've heard of the tech deck UFO I mean he describes exactly the thing operates exactly the way I was describing that's why he was interested to talk to me but we saw this and you know on the way home it's like hey we got away with it we should try it again the next test flight date so this became a thing to do and I think it was on the third time that we got caught I mean we started becoming a little careless I think we took a motorhome out there you know I mean it was like the stupidest thing you could possibly also tailgating yeah it was ridiculous and again you're in your 20s yeah and you know what was funny was

► 01:01:32

we went out there and my friend Gene huff and I were leaning on the front of a vehicle and just for some reason we just started talking shit like well I hope they realize that I don't remember what we're saying but you know that something about attacking the base or something along those lines and stealing the craft or something like that so I'm crazy and then about 20 feet in front of us we see a little green light fall on the ground and roll to us and unbeknownst to us now it's pitch black you can't see your hand in front of your face there are a bunch of guards standing right out there and they had a night vision scope where they were like from here to the wall looking at us listening to us and the guy dropped it in the scope rolled over to us and you could see the green screen you don't we turn the lights on and all these guys are there so it was whoa yeah yeah so we did incredibly stupid stuff and got caught

► 01:02:32

we should have because so when they catch you and they bring you in then what happens well I went in for debriefing the following day I went to Indian Springs Air Force Base which is kind of a defunct base that they used to use at the nuclear test site and this is when they brought out the transcript of the phone call with my wife and you know they sat me down and we said you know when we meant to keep the secret we meant you can tell your friends right you know and it just being sarcastic and trying to MMM and then they got real serious but this is where they you know took the transcript out and we're reading me what my wife and you know our friend were talking about and

► 01:03:22

it was a hard time so what happens from there

► 01:03:27

what do they do with you why don't they arrest you I don't think I don't know I don't know why I'm not sure the exactly they knew what to do but they did let me go that night and I went home and this is kind of when the most stressful part started because you're realizing you're being monitored yeah an hour so yeah now I know not only am I being monitored but now I know I'm in trouble and it wasn't a short time after that that I contacted you know at that time the only investigative reporter I had heard of in Las Vegas was George Knapp and you know told him some of the story because I had no idea what the hell was going to happen at that point so George Knapp tries to dissect your story tries to find holes in it tells it puts it on line and makes everybody aware of it and that's how I found out about it yeah to make a long story short what happens yet to really make a long story short what happens from there on I mean do they contact you and say hey Bob it's

► 01:04:27

you good idea if you shut up

► 01:04:31

how they try to label you as crazy was there

► 01:04:36

they're a boy there were a lot of things that happened at you know between the point I'm leaving out a lot of stuff to fill in the story we'd have to go back to Los Alamos and and

► 01:04:52

well I really don't want to talk about that the

► 01:04:56

top secret weapons stuff that you were working on no I'm talking about the 115

► 01:05:05

well I don't know I have to think about how I died

► 01:05:08

what is the problem let's just say I don't want to get myself into more trouble by admitting something so I just have to dance around a couple he was okay to just during the filming of the movie Peanut the movies great by the way thanks Joe and it's on Netflix right now for anyone who wants to check it out and if you're one of those people like me who you know I've always loved the idea of UFOs I became extremely weary talking to people who are UFO Believers and UFO Fanatics cuz there's so many of them that are full of shit and not just full of shit they're they're childishly Delirious like the way they talk about things that mean there's so many people that are that I'm in contact they reach me in the night and they explain to me what we're doing to the ocean is wrong and like you know like okay this is one of the reasons I didn't want to do the show I'm sure it's no yeah well it's I mean it's no joke we've had people literally camp out on our front lawn and

► 01:06:08

the you know in some ways I can relate to some of these people you know maybe some of them did really have some kind of experience or saw something and all their friends think they're crazy but hey now there's this guy I heard on the radio and at least he knows I'm not full of shit so I got to talk to him and so most of the correspondents I get her people trying to get ahold of me going by view you got to listen to me I'm coming to talk to you I'm you know I'm driving from Oklahoma or whatever and and and but some of them are just fucking batshit crazy mm yeah they're frightening there's a lot of schizophrenic that are involved in the conspiracy world there's a lot of people that have real issues Joe I it would be a disservice to your audience to not say that

► 01:06:55

we have to look at what's going on now and understand I've heard on your show a bunch of stuff about what's going on now and to not really understand what's going on now you can't see Bob story in the correct light after 30 years and at some point we should just touch upon that the biggest being that things like the Tic Tac UFO case that came out I've heard people even on the show say well there's a glitch in the radar that's a data poor perspective you just don't know yet what's really going on Commander favor I was able to get the interview with him to talk to him way before it became public I got that from him he saw it other Pilots saw it this is a big thing that's going on right now they had more sightings on the East Coast recently cubes with spherical or these are not aerodynamic and these are the people we trust to defend us on 9/11 come out of favor protected Los Angeles on 9/11 so we trust them but they're not trained observers radar individuals see these things and

► 01:07:54

big the big one just to throw down so we can consider a story a little differently this more depth to it the big one is the United States government has admitted that they have been continuously studying the UFO phenomenon that program was called a tip Advanced eresource art was called awesome app that that's the mother program George Knapp got that out they announced that the New York Times about a tip but also have these acronyms also have advanced Aerospace weapon systems applications program who cares that was the mother program so they've admitted we didn't stop studying UFOs in 1969 with Project Blue Book we don't think it's crazy we're actually want to reverse engineer the technology that's why on your other show he said what's this aav thing it's like they're making up another UFO name will hold on there's a reason because in the documents that the the DIA documents that George Knapp released that everybody said was fake till now they know his real they call them aavs which is Advanced Aerospace Vehicles people get in acronyms wrong so there

► 01:08:54

the reason for the terminology change is so that we can mimic what we're reading in the DIA documents people can look for that now so they changed the names to get people away from UFO or UAP even like Hillary Clinton said on air right so what are you talking about Hillary Clinton Hillary Clinton informed the public on Jimmy Kimmel oh Jimmy we don't call them UFOs anymore we call them you APS unidentified aerial phenomenon right so she kind of was giving to their the clintons are very into the UFO topic Senator Reid you know he he's done a lot for the subject to study of it right so she informed the public so they could look for the right term so these terms are important because the DIA in those documents they've been calling them aavs for quite some time now and they changed the name to anomalous know that that's kind of a misnomer know so they always mess around with things but it's actually Advanced right but when they're describing it in the news they were calling an anomalous total base vehicle

► 01:09:54

totally and that's cool they were also saying anomalous Aerospace threats aat right because then what the sense of a threat right so my point is all of it if people don't know this now and they think this stuff is fantasy this this part of it that we're studying at that we take it seriously we're spending money on it and that we're getting great data from from visual Pilots to radar that's why we know its Aerospace they dropped from 80,000 feet but guess what that's the top scope of the spy-1 radar is 80,000 feet so the radar system they were using it was coming from above that so my point is this if you don't understand that this is happening you're just behind the curve because you don't have the information because of the stigma that you're talking about I saw you get totally upset with UFO topic I met you first when you get a totally upset the UFO topic it's the people when when you're doing your this Mike I'm sorry man when you're when you're doing your show you know the Joe Rogan questions everything I could see how how

► 01:10:54

string is trust me I have been frustrated to how luckily my mentors George Knapp and he's taught me the Pitbull pitfalls as I went through it my whole point in this rant right here is just that we have to now look at Bob's story but knowing the facts not someone saying it's a bird it's a plane it's a glitch they're not and so if you don't know that you just don't have the information and not just not knowing the facts as we know them in 2019 not 1988 absolutely and so what is he said that has come true he's totally unimpressed with it right what is he said this come true so I was like Bob they've announced gravity as a wave you were right man you're Vindicated and he looks at me and he's like well if you think about it Jeremy I had like a 50/50 chance he was not very impressed right button to they announced gravity is a wave so they detected in a sense they attacted gravity waves and who is they

► 01:11:49

you might know more there's two black holes that were colliding and that's how they were able to detect yeah somebody bill I don't know which group it was or what part of the government as a Google's for yeah what but they you know built a gigantic gravity wave detector and pretty much detected that there are such things as good as first observation of gravitational waves it says it was in 2016 okay the first observation of gravitational waves was made on 14th of September 2015 rather as announced by the Lig oh and Virgo collaborators on the 11th of February 2016 previously gravitational waves had only been inferred indirectly via their effect on the timing of pulsars in binary star systems don-don't Dom the waveform connected by both Lig ol I go AB server Tory's match the predictions of general relativity for Gravity gravitational wave

► 01:12:51

emanating from the inward spies trying to get this from the inward spiral and merger of a pair of black holes around 36 and 29 solar masses and the subsequent ring down of the single resulting black hole well that I mean yeah it's no he was out in the 80s the predominant theory was gravity is produced by gravitons okay you know part of theoretical part theoretical particles but they're not there waves they're not particles and that so the thought is that the way we experience gravity it's based on mass which is why the moon which is roughly one quarter the size of the Earth has 1/6 of the Earth's gravity so there's some sort of a computation you can make based on mass right and and remember we can observe the effects of gravity but we have no idea what it is all we can do is observe it and we can't make it the only way you can make gravity is just put more mass together and social justice

► 01:13:50

a product of gravity but if you can make a few have a machine that makes gravity you can pretty much do anything you can affect time you can have force field all that stuff that's in science fiction becomes reality if you have a machine that can make gravity and what we worked on in the desert was a machine that makes gravity I love your analogy of dropping off a small nuclear reactor to the Victorian era I love that that analogy because back then that was impossible that was magic what you're talking about here the fact that they just discovered this for years ago that this is a wave but we're as much as we know and as impressed as we are as we should be with how much more technologically advanced we are than every other creature on this planet we're still in many ways in The Adolescents of technological innovation absolutely absolutely if even adolescence and when you're talking about

► 01:14:50

this binary star system Zeta reticuli and who knows how much longer these things have been around than us who knows what their evolutionary cycle has been who knows what we might be talking about something that's a million years more advanced than us yeah yeah it could easily be now I'm not in believe it or not I'm not into UFOs I don't follow those stories or you know even after your experiences no I'm fascinated with the technology and I it really irks me like every night I go to sleep that you know I don't

► 01:15:25

that it was my own doing essentially that that prevented me from continuing on in the in the project I mean it's a that to be on that Cutting Edge of technology is so alluring to me right but you know by the same token I don't really care that there's aliens or where they come from I mean the prize is the technology and that's what I'm fascinated by but so I don't listen to UFO stories and that sort of thing but George Knapp is I mean he's the guy that has the contacts and tries to thread everything together and what he recently told me as he found I don't know is either documentation or people that he spoke to its at this the existence of this project the project that I was on it's something that they

► 01:16:11

seemed to take out every eight or ten years so that's a very specific memo and this is actually a this is the first time I'll be very clear with people that it's a big topic of conversation right now it's called The Wilson memo you can look it up Admiral Wilson met with a scientist who's actually was featured in one of my films everybody has been debating whether or not this document of a conversation with an sitting Admiral at the time is a real document it's an actual conversation that happened and this document is ready but he wants to know the world is going crazy right now on the UFO World I'll tell you straight up right now I'm in the position to know and it is a real document that it is real so the conversation you read in that that conversation was had I can't attest to every don't move you're not being very clear sure please no problem so there was a document is circulating right now that is really big it's going around everywhere people are asking and what is this talking it's called The Wilson

► 01:17:11

most what you how you can find it online the or the Wilson leak there it is Jamie's got it the Wilson memorandum use of human volunteers no no no that's not it yeah so Admiral Wilson meets with this scientist and they have this discussion oddly enough that special projects at eg&g and if I remember the documents from 2001 I'm telling everybody right now it's real and we'll see my history is pretty good would like to say and if something's really not right so here we go the document comes out they meet it eg&g special projects in 1989 they stumble into a problem this happens they put the technology away and then they bring it back out and see if Material Science has caught up and if they can make any progress so this document kind of talks about this process the big thing I get from it and a lot of its vindicating to Bob and one of the things is vindicating besides the eg&g thing is that Private Industry so this guy's an admiral and he says I just

► 01:18:11

I found out about your sap your special Access program I need to know about it and he's going to a private part of industry and he is denied access and he says you know I should be running this program and they were able to deny him access so I think the takeaway here is check it out I'm telling you that that is an actual correct that is a leak now everything said in that document I'm I don't know what he talking about what is said in that document specific it's a between a scientist and an admiral that are sitting and they're having a meeting and they're talking about the search for the UFO subject the search to get special access program access to all of these different things like reverse engineering programs so in this document they talk about it I believe that this document that the person that went was employed by Robert Bigelow you know one of the guys has a couple of orbiting satellites and all that stuff who's gonna guy own Skinwalker Ranch no he's not he was

► 01:19:11

the guy that owns kataka okay yeah he used to own it there's a new owner and I interview him for my other film but there's a new owner and you'll be hearing a lot more about that soon but like it'll just there's their stuff that you'll be hearing about Skinwalker Ranch in because there's a new owner anyway the whole point of this is you know insertion here is just that that document kind of validates a lot of this idea Bob just said that they make a little progress then they can't go anywhere they tuck it away and then they bring it back out you know 10 years later and start working on it what is the limiting factor I think Bob should speak on this but it's the material science yeah it's really where physics is so I can I can see them doing that I mean I didn't have any information on that but I think what you know George uncovered is probably accurate that you know we try and do what we can and once we reach a roadblock on we really can't figure it out it's just freaking weight put the thing away

► 01:20:11

wait for science to catch up and you know a decade later let's take the project out again and see all right now where can we go but there's got to be someone who remains informed right oh yeah I've got your scientists like you and Barry you got your people that you compartmentalize you got these people working there has to be some people write that know everything you've got security and then someone's going to be in the outside saying hey we need people to guard this building don't let anybody in for 10 years I think a lot of that is Private Industry and I think that's how they keep it yeah I think that's how they litter because the government is just so leaky I think that's kind of what they're doing that's what the document kind of proves you just articulated that it isn't controlled Private Industry what Private Industry some Aerospace company something I don't know yeah they went they would the guy with the Admiral wouldn't name it in the car right in the conversation yeah so they still have these things supposedly

► 01:21:08

I would guess I mean I don't have any information on have you ever asked anyone that has any inkling of any idea where they got them or how they got them now but something must have been said to me from Barry and but I it was just too long ago when I can't quite remember what was said but it it just left a seed in my mind I think at least one of them was part of an archaeological dig

► 01:21:37

so it's old something one at least one of them is old I don't know if it was the one I worked on but I remember something to do with an archaeological dig whoa so that's that means it's not just old it's ancient to be a great Steven Spielberg movie yeah right as all of it would yeah that should be out when he said that for the first time you know that's a freak out right there just a couple of dudes with some brushes looking for a Tyrannosaurus Rex bone and it metal and when did they find it you know that they have nine of them well and how could we have not heard about that what about the guys with the brushes How Could You uncover something like that and Joe's newspaper at home does I mean they set it on that first day Oh you mean the Roswell yeah yeah I have a cover what is this your Jamie the document but I had to do some digging to find it yes it's just kind of yeah so this is where they meet at eg&g and this is Admiral Wilson and there's a lot more coming out and I want to be clear George didn't put this out he didn't

► 01:22:37

leak this out anyway this is I can tell you how I courted this this conversation so this was an employee of at the time Robert Bigelow and this is in 2002 right do you remember when he had that government contract called ASAP the world I'll knows about now and he had knids that studied the ranch that 22 million everybody is saying it was for a tip Advanced Aerospace threat identification program the 22 million dollars was for off sap that was pushed through Congress three congressmen right an astronaut it was pushed through and that's what that 22 million dollars by the way they spend more money on Viagra every year than they do studying UFOs if it was just this program which I think is funny we probably made a lot more money from Vienna they probably do that UFOs tell you never know how it feeds into population but anyway this program this is what was the mother program so it got the 22 million and really it was to study Skinwalker Ranch oddly enough that 22 million all was inspired by the phenomenon they were seen at Skinwalker Ranch because the scientists

► 01:23:37

they're seeing Vehicles come through like a space in the sky yeah we went there I went through it don't get interviewed a bunch of people that seemed full of shit but a couple that in this very very interesting totally and it there's but if you look I spent a lot of time in the area I'm not talking about those stories I'm saying there were scientists hired by the government right through Bigelow to study the ranch because they thought it was important and you know whatever whatever the point is that 22 million was to study that then we have a tip which is like an auxiliary kind of program of military settings like Commander favors and that sort of thing this document is just one of those things that has now come forward that through the big low studies it was government funded with and then it was personally funded and then government-funded it's just one of those things that kind of shakes you because you got this military guy who can't get access because of the Private Industry that's holding these non-terrestrial materials that they can't study it so

► 01:24:37

the claim right now give it some time let people dig more into this it's fascinating man so you are essentially you're you're you're kicked out right you're out of this program you can't work with these crafts anymore and do they give you any threats to they tell you what you have to do from here on out yeah well I mean the way it ended was I told George Knapp all this stuff and you know he said well let's just get it on tape should something happen at least we have a record of it and I don't remember what the emptiness was but at some point George wanted to air it and he said you know you make the call on it and look if it any point you change your mind we won't are it and it came down to the day where George wants to put it on the five o'clock news he said if this is important stuff people have to

► 01:25:37

about it and I thought it was to either it's kind of a crime I know you got to keep the technology secret but you can't not tell everybody that this stuff is going on that we have you know actual Hardware from another civilization it's a big fucking deal you know probably the biggest one there ever was and George said you know today's the day we got to put it on the news or something to that effect and when it came right down to the time to air it I changed my mind and I said we're not doing it and that's what turned into the famous wrestling match between me and George trying to get the tape but he won because it was a bigger guy so you actually physically wrestled well I think it was more of a pulling match we were I don't think we ever hit the ground but he got the tape put it in the player and boom five o'clock news was on and then I got a call after that and they said it was from Dennis he said you have any idea what we're going to do to you now and

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hung up the phone that was the last communication I had with them

► 01:26:41

and what has happened to you since then after that

► 01:26:48

a lot of people I have known either were audited by the IRS people had anybody I know that had clearances that worked in Secure programs at the clearances pulled one of them friendly one of mine that Jeremy knows he's on camera with me soon he'll tell the story now that he's out of work up there he was working up at the Tonopah test range waiting for his clearance to come through and you know they pulled that it would it became it's like if they can't get the person that's involved they just create a problem for everybody that's around them and so I mean the way it turns out it heard a lot of people's lives that I was connected to and that's a effective way of shutting someone up so I feel that by coming forward and going public they couldn't just snuff you out that was I mean that's what I was told and George and everybody you know said that you could oh it's not it's public there's no one will touch you and I you know I

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I fell for it

► 01:27:52

and I wish you didn't yeah sometimes sometimes when it's just overstressed and people can't put on your lawn yeah but it's this is going to make things worse doing this not this will make things better but I was trying to tell them how is this going to make things better because you're getting a real chance to explain yourself in a way that's going to make people who are not only work in the government people that are police officers and firefighters and First Responders and doctors and scientists are going to emphasize emphasize empathize and sympathize with

► 01:28:29

what it must be like to be a person like you in your 20s who gets thrust into this world unknowingly and confronted with one of the most if not the most important Discovery in the history of human beings the big question are we alone it's the number one question is two questions right what happens when we die and are we alone those are the two big questions right and if we're not alone and someone knows we're not alone and these some people who know we're not alone are these bungling sort of even if they weren't if it's a crime yet they're not telling the rest of us but I mean I don't mean bungling in terms of incompetent I mean they can't be competent it seems to me that what you're describing that no one can be competent with this technology like the victory Victorian era Scholars analyzing some sort of a nuclear reactor there's no way

► 01:29:28

why do you think the aren't why do you think they're not telling us let's just make an assumption that this is true right now why do you think that they're not telling us that our government doesn't tell us what's your best well let me put it into what would you do if I'm the president okay and I get this information what do I do with this what do I do with this there's something that we don't know something we don't understand there's something that came from another world we got it tucked away in the mountains and I just wanted you guys know about it hey sleep tight hey American Idols on tonight who do you thinks gonna win yeah who's gonna win America that down I cannot dot dot dot dot so what a little one is uncertainty in the other one is what Bob and I've talked about a lot absolutely not knowing what to tell people because you don't really understand it yourself even though you've got what do you say you have you want to run a government you want to get people to pay their taxes and there's something else yeah what do you say she had these objects fine with impunity right and you that you have someone else well not only that what can you say like how much do you really know I think it's mainly the technology that they just want to keep the technology

► 01:30:28

you see a group because it over there yeah whoever gets this versus dude yeah they wait you you control the were you become what you literally become invincible once you master the technology you can't you cannot penetrate a field like that so I imagine that's I know it's all science fiction but science fiction turns into science fact if you have real force fields around aircraft and battleships you you win you win you can force your will upon anybody and like I said there's so much more to the story when I was first there there were Russian scientist at us for that was this was early on in the project so this was before Operation Paperclip became public as well right I would imagine that was I don't know what the dates when was that when did was at the 98 I think 98 yeah I don't know the dates on so it's been roughly Ten Years Later Operation Paperclip becomes Freedom of Information Act we say about Russia not Germany he's have a Russian scientist yeah but I mean Russian scientists A lot of them

► 01:31:28

from Germany a lot of those those rocket scientist at work with NASA they all came from Nazi scientists got it so some Russians got some of them I just know it and at some point there was intense collaboration with Remy even exchanging some ideas on nuclear weapons and you know EMP test and some of the things we would never have discussed with them but at the same time it was in the late 80s they were involved in actually in the area at S4 with us and got to communicate with these guys are you saw them no I knew they were there a berry berry would talk about the commies that were there the county have the commies and that was back when they were the commons yeah they were welcoming and at some point it wasn't our group but at some point there was a big discovery made and this did not happen when I was there it happened in between my trips to there and after that apparently they decided it was just too cool to share with anybody in the Russians were never allowed

► 01:32:28

back on the base after that but you don't know what that Discovery was no no like I said it wasn't my group so one of the other groups really found out something but the you know and typical American fashion is Art this is ours you guys get the hell out of here was there any inkling that any other government had something similar now not nothing that I had our see that was the thing that always freaked me out was why if something was so Superior to human beings some was like visiting an ant colony like why would you go to the queen I don't give a fuck who the queen is I'm a human I'm so Superior to ants I don't care who you have running your hive I'm just going to study it I think it's who got it who God look at the you know rocket technology in Germany but they got nine of them

► 01:33:15

yeah that doesn't make sense to me either so they were either in the same area or you know one had Clues to her others were I mean I don't know you you have to fill that in there but you're right I mean nine of them that's a that's a big big if it was archaeological well one of the more recent the recent sightings and these discussions that have been coming out recently from Air Force pilots Navy Pilots their been talking about things happening in the ocean and that that something go literally goes into the water or something maybe below the surface about Water 2004 Tic Tac Nimitz case so that's when George Knapp and I broke on the radio twice before the New York Times said no this one really well Commander favor and those Pilots there was a disturbance on the surface of the water come out of favor visually saw what looked like similar to a cross some object so it's like as if you have some a coral under the water and you've got it's breaking over right the Tic Tac is doing this crazy maneuvers

► 01:34:14

defies it's a gravity propelled says they saw it in the sky before this on the water right yeah so there were there were radar that was picking this these things coming down from 80,000 feet drop into 50 feet in less than a second this is a Jamie what is it this is actually on the news today there was a briefing so a lot of people get this confused did not this one that neither so that is called the gimbal so there's three videos released by The Pentagon that are all a tissue and keep the volume off

► 01:34:42

I would I would really just pay attention to the source video so you've got the tick tack which is this object that Commander favor saw another pilot filmed it with a Fleer pod and it goes to but this one you see is really important to Bob story The gimbal craft it's been recently analyzed its Fleer not only does it it's definitive that it's not conventional anything by the by its movements but there's a pocket of cold air around a propulsion source so this object by the way set stationary for days if not weeks it's at stationary you'll be found it 11 hours later and they were saying there's no way this thing using that kind of energy to go that fast could just hover the amount of times and by the way you're seeing a very small part of what happened that day this object was not alone and so hopefully that information comes out and we can I mean I wish we had video of it I'm sure we'd all want to see it but that's called the gimbal that was East Coast right

► 01:35:42

doesn't 15 West Coast 2004 is the Tic Tac the disturbance on the water Commander favor believes there was something under that water there was causing that disturbance when the Tic Tac was coming around to doing it with inside the people that are studying this they're thinking maybe the Tic Tac system was causing the disturbance but the Uso and identified submerged object that he visually saw the whole interesting thing about that is I won't Love Bob to describe it is why it doesn't matter if these crafts are in space air or water why doesn't it matter I love when he talks about this shit but first of all Commander favor was the F-18 pilot off the Nimitz that was sent out to find out what this stuff is but and it wasn't just I got a chance to talk to him recently and it wasn't just a radar image I mean Commander favor I had eyes on it for over five minutes watching this thing as for other Pilots did so it wasn't a radar

► 01:36:42

or anything I mean these guys were watching this thing but you know one of the things I think in the gimbal video

► 01:36:50

the way the craft that we worked on flies is it doesn't fly like a conventional aircraft as and it doesn't fly like a flying saucer winter in a 1950s movie it flies belly first I mean it may set down conventionally but it always rotates it does a roll maneuver puts its belly towards the Target and then moves away feeling good car flying with the wheels forward right right I mean it may lift it land on the wheels but at some point when it wants to leave let's go flips up points the wheels are at once ago and takes off and the gimbal video you can see the craft do the roll maneuver and its really interesting it behaves exactly like the crafts that I worked on so much like we have different-shaped aircrafts and fighter jets and cars they probably have different shapes of these objects that operate under similar principles right for what they are

► 01:37:50

all have the same power source the same power source and we're also dealing with if you think about the laws of technological progression you know you think of Moore's Law and you think of how things accelerate you've got to think that if this civilization is who knows how many years more advanced than we are if not even years mean I mean we're thinking about in terms of conventional terms right the way the way we look at the world that mean that they meet they might be just Superior in terms of their intellect they've got to be maybe we don't know well the only reason I say that is because

► 01:38:30

look everyone doesn't necessarily start at a steam engine right and go to an internal combustion engine and then you know Electric Power Nuclear Power and go up the ladder that we bright can weigh on you know the binary if the stuff is true about the origin and the binary star system and they have heavier elements that we don't have and this element stable element 115 is a naturally occurring material maybe that's the first thing they started experimenting with and the version of their steam engine their first product was something that operated like this and actually when they came to Earth to look around or you know whatever they were amazed at the stuff we were doing these guys burn stuff and squirted out the back to go forward so right right you know who says they follow any kind of normal progression like that my thought was if you went back to the 1400s and then you went from 1400 to 1500 you're not going to see that much of a difference technological right if you go from 2,000 to 3,000 I assume there's

► 01:39:30

be a radical change right well the yeah the Delta the rate of change is magnificently higher than it used to be right so if you think about what they had in 1988 and you think about what they probably have in 2019

► 01:39:48

just logically seems like they would advance I would think so the only question is like are they living is that a living thing in terms of like a biological thing or are they some sort of an artificially created creation like we are working on right now we're in the middle of working on artificial reality artificial being sentient beings artificial intelligence there's constant is silicon-based life forms that they're essentially trying to create Boston Dynamics or was it Boston Dynamics at the company's very real tiny robots yeah you can make machines out of flash right so for cyborg or cybernetic organism is just that you know that's what a lot of people think those like gray things are you know the people call the greys yeah it's like they were like their machines rented from flash so what you're saying is like now I can just be no synthetic like that I don't even need to be you know machines well they seem to have no sex organs with are described by people that have had interactions with them assuming these people aren't

► 01:40:47

right or crazy or whatever right they have no sex organs and that they don't seem to have any muscle to just almost like a frame right and they have enormous heads I mean if you look at Australia Pacific is or depictions of you know ancient hominids and then you go to human beings one of the things you see is bigger heads and weaker bodies well you see some clear progression of evolution to wear something like that I would lean towards synthetic organism because it looks like it was made for a specific task there's no reproductive organs so I mean that almost kind of leaves out any kind of you know physical Evolution right well that's also the our bottleneck right our bottleneck is our biological imperative the the need to breed emotions fear anxiety all these different things that exist in order to force us into making sure we reproduce I mean that's essentially there's a human reward systems that aren't necessary once they can figure out a way to make

► 01:41:47

some sort of sentient artificial life some sort of thing that doesn't have these biological limitations that we have by the way these craft all these different kinds of in reporter because it was confusing I always thought of flying saucers what I heard Bob Lazar talk about flying saucer right but if you look back in history people have always reported the weirdest shapes like none of them are alike you know there are the saucers but you got cigar-shaped you got you know the top hat Gene you have orbs why maybe they're serving different purposes they're doing different things like we'd use different tools and I want to be clear the reason I know that memo is real is because I spent a lot of time with dr. Edgar Mitchell has six man to walk on the Moon last got to film them before he died right that's how I know I don't want any journalist thinking I got it from anywhere else I know because of dr. Mitchell and he said the same thing maybe these things are performing different tasks you know and that's my seam if you if you think about what an alien is in terms of our the sort of iconic image of an alien like

► 01:42:47

Steven Spielberg's Close Encounters of the 3rd time the Third Kind alien they seem like what we'd assumed a human being would eventually become right and if these things are tiny human beings are smaller than they've ever been before the weaker than they've ever been before and there seems to be a trend in that direction and this trend seems to be Amplified by our technological progression there are lack of Need for muscle strength and our lack of Need for violence and we're moving in a society to try to get away from all the things that we think are abhorrent about human beings in the terrible behaviors that we have if we one day do give birth to some sort of an artificial being like Marshall mcluhan's quote we are the sex organs of the Machine World you know that one day we can now buy this yeah mcluhan was brilliant and that that quote is always been one of my favorites because okay what are we doing when we were constantly technologically innovative

► 01:43:47

eating we're constantly looking for faster cars better computers bigger screens faster more resolution more pixels more this more that higher bandwidth 5G 10g right what are we doing we're moving into this in this if you just follow it objectively stay and stand back don't attach yourself or your civilization your culture to it and look at it what it is we're moving a hundred percent towards technological innovation if you looked at the species from afar and if you weren't a part of it you would say what is this species do are they make things they make things better every year beehives the same fucking thing that you see ten years ago you go by see Abby hi it's amazing it's cool but they're the same fucking thing they figured out how to do it they make a beehive we don't do that we make better things what would you constantly and at some point I think that technology is going to fuse with us yes and we're going to become already happening yeah Elon Musk talked about on my podcast that we are cyborgs you just carried in your pocket it's a phone it answers any question you want you couldn't talk to it will give you the answers and the answers instantaneously

► 01:44:48

it navigates you it has all your phone numbers in it has all your contacts you can get a hold of people people listening to you through it it's connecting us in ways even involuntarily haptics that kind of yeah it's also getting on your wrist how many people have I watches Apple watches well right wrist right and that's only because we can't integrate them yet but if you know that point is called hundred percent yeah I didn't joke about it last night but I have a bit about it but I do about the integration between humans and Technology that's what would you do if you were a hyper intelligence right would you do the work yourself or would you create some cool things called like humans to do it for you would you create things that are cybernetic organisms to come in with machines and do it for you if you are hyper intelligence that has kind of changed like you've described you'd probably create workers right well that's a vast conspiracy theory is that I'm not talking about conspiracy but it is a kind of a conspiracy I'm asking you well I mean I don't think it's necessarily that I mean you could look at it that way but that is the way a conspiracy theorist would look at it the way I would look at it as like there's obviously a progression

► 01:45:48

going on a biological progression there's some sort of an integration with technology there's some sort of imperative this need for technological innovation it's inescapable everyone has it we and I think it's attached to materialism and some sort of a strange way because so many people work so hard to get new things and like God it seems so illogical and Preposterous and it makes people unhappy and depressions on the rise but nobody seems to be able to stop it like why is that well maybe it's because we are the electronic caterpillars that give birth to the butterfly maybe that's what we're doing now become very well but our job is to do is to make some sort of a cocoon and we don't even know we're doing it while we're doing it do you think a caterpillar is well hey caterpillar what are you doing man it's just I'm doing my things my job I have to make a cocoon them to come and go but this could be a natural part of evolution it could be that right just supposed to do this exact and make the jump to some sort of mechanized right yeah non-biological an orangutan that is fishing

► 01:46:47

the spear now they've figured out how to fish with Spears there's there's a primatologist which waiting without somebody showing them how to fish know they've imitated human beings doing it and now they do it but they do it independently they're not trained orangutans they're wild right look at that

► 01:47:08

there's a wild right that's impressive very impressive well there's these primatologists I guess you would call them primatologist that's the term that's a great biologist biologists that believe that monkeys and chimps and some of the great apes are moving into the Stone Age that they've currently entered the Stone Age like they're not staying what they were a hundred thousand years ago or five hundred thousand years ago but they're actively using tools and they're experimenting with different different ways to use those tools and then they're making tools out of stone they're making tools out of sticks and they're using them well this might just be what happens this might just be what happens

► 01:47:49

I mean why y'all so why are we why the fuck are we work so hard I mean I was driving to La this morning I had a doctor's appointment so I was on the 405 at 8:00 in the morning like Jesus Christ like this is so crazy when you're on the 405 and La at 8 o'clock in the morning you see literally a million cars and it's just everywhere you go is people but and also I'm in a Tesla so I have it on autopilot so I'm they're sitting I'm listening to a podcast I barely have my hand on the wheel I'm not touching shit this car is driving me along I'm not even doing anything I'm just I'm just hanging out so much less stressful way to do that that way right so it encourages you to innovate encourages you to embrace this new technology I got this giant screen it's showing me the navigation in front of me I'll be there five minutes early excellent and I'm listening to a podcast wirelessly it's Bluetooth scream streaming from my phone and I pulled that podcast which came out today out of the fucking sky and I'm listening to it and I'm all comfortable and my nice little car just driving I'm a

► 01:48:49

the doctor's office this is irresistible stuff yeah different than your Walkman yeah you know that can be irresistible it is a resist it's frightening Lee irresistible it is it frightening I mean if you were a monkey right if you were in Australia Pittacus would you go man I don't want to fucking be a person live in a house that's bullshit I like just swinging around on trees I like running from Jaguars this is life guy's life is running from crocodiles it's not living in a fucking Suburban probably some that are like that yeah I don't think so I think I think what when it comes we're going to embrace it we're going to embrace it the same way Embrace cell phones the same way Embrace television there's going to be a few holdouts I don't even know when email address man those are those are just a few and far between the good luck with that fuckface go move to the woods Ted Kaczynski yeah I was just gonna throw Ted Ted Kaczynski was right this is something that I think about sometimes when I get really high that Ted Kaczynski was a part of the Harvard LSD studies this has been proven Ted Kaczynski they cooked his fucking brain when he was at Harvard

► 01:49:49

and then when he went over to Berkeley and became a professor his goal was to make enough money so that he could implement this program and live in the woods and then write his Manifesto and start killing people that were involved in propagating technology he was expunged from the Harvard logs by the way this is something my friend just called me about so there's like this private library and they used to print people's names whenever they were part of a university and he was one of a handful of people that were expunged from it I want to jump back to the one thing Joe I want to be very careful with that word conspiracy theorist what I was what I was saying to you as we terraform our earth right we tear from we change the environment we do all this Innovation what is stopping us from thinking that that's not being done I'm not saying is I'm saying what's stopping us from thinking that that's being done on a much bigger level on a cosmic level you mean like aliens coming down doing that the humans aw I'm telling you that there is something here that's there's a fact you know there's something there are

► 01:50:49

they're here they're not ours they're here so the question is what is that about and I'm just looking at what we do with what you're describing with technology it's I think it's much more likely that the same way we observe chimps and we observed that they are now in the Stone Age that they're observing us and that they're recognizing that there is a pattern that there is a there's a steps that happen I mean Carl Sagan talked about the different levels of civilization and that you know that if we don't get past certain levels we're never going to reach this that mean we're in type one civilization going to stay type-0 we're in this warring polluting yeah pillaging we're awesome civilization it's alright it's a well we're awesome in a lot of ways you know but in that way we're not well yeah we're children that have immense power that we didn't really the other thing is you're using the immense power that other people have created right I mean even when you're driving a car and stomp on the gas like whoa you didn't invent the fucking engine you didn't invent tires there's all these things that were in

► 01:51:49

involved in the creation of this thing that is really outside of your grasp of understanding but yet you have the ability to use it like a person with a gun I'm just gonna bang bang bang people you don't you didn't invent a gun so like you've you've without the intellect to craft an engineer and and and manifest these creations you just have access to them because you have paper or you have Bitcoin or you have whatever the fuck you're using using a credit card now you have almost no responsibility you just you could just flippantly use these things which is why we you know we were very childlike in our actions because we haven't had to earn the responsibility we haven't had to earn these things that we've been able to have and you've only been able to have them because other people have innovated in spent ungodly amounts of time and effort and focus in the lab to create these things and then they've all put them together and then what is the what's the reason to put them together to profit well what's the reason of

► 01:52:49

why are you doing this so you can buy more things well what are we doing what are we doing we're making better things that's what we do that's all that's all we do is make better that why the fuck do we need oil why do we need oil why can't we just burn wood and stay home why can't we grow chickens and food in the backyard why can't we do it well we fucking can we certainly can people do do it but we decide to make that almost impossible our preferred way of living is to stuff everyone into a very small area where no one grows anything other than weed this is what Allah is la is 20 million people with hard surfaces as many hard surfaces you can boy if you got an acre backyard now I holy shit look at all that green this is amazing well no that's the fucking Earth coming through this weird sort of creation that we've put on top of the Earth but the goal is that like New York City that's there's none of it right you just got they've got Central Park and they just got human shit you stacked up no one's growing anything and then constant work everyone's up early go go go

► 01:53:49

innovate progress make that money so you can buy more things and every year hey Apple where's his fucking new phone as if your phone isn't good enough yeah thank you phones taking pictures and videos and people are calling you and you gotta applications to tell you which way the winds blowing that's not good enough blink of an eye blink of an eye it's all gone though that you know like 10,000 years and the Hoover Dam goes or whatever you know Mount Rushmore disintegrate so it's amazing because we have created that and everything's trying to spring up through that we keep it maintenance down but we're a blink man something hits but we don't think that way well you know you think in terms of your own life right you think in terms of what you want what you need right now you know what it's we are in many ways this combination of this weird primitive ape like thing with the ability to calculate and manipulate our world in our environment that makes us holy unique on top of that with existential angst and fear so what do you do with that with fucking

► 01:54:49

down with the antidepressants give these fucking people some shit that keeps them moving we're worried about the future the trying to figure out what reality is it is you're on a goddamn convertible spaceship spinning a thousand miles an hour hurling through Infinity there's no meaning to this thing just keep making shit keep making stuff and then one day they're going to be able to hit that switch and this life will be born out of innovation and thinking and progress and technology and more than likely it's probably going to be what we're seeing that these things are that you're observing I'm not observing them but yeah someone's available are you implying that they're us I don't think they are us but I think they are what happens when things keep going it's not us just like we are not monkeys right all right I'm not a champ that'd be cool like they're from here is your idea no no no that this is what happens all over the universe right yeah told this is what happened look here's the thing you know I went to see Brian Cox's

► 01:55:49

um he has this amazing live show with Robin ends where they have these led screens he's huge screens with high-resolution depictions of the cosmos and one of the most mind-blowing things was he has this large scale image of the universe and it shows all the individual galaxies the universe and it just keeps moving through all these galaxies in three dimensions and it's fucking incredible but with stunning is the relative uniformity of it even at you know it mean you're obviously looking at an incredibly small depiction of something that's immensely large like a galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars you seeing it as this little dot but there's little dots that's flying through space surrounded by other little darts with very similarly space distances yeah how much we know through yeah if we see uniformity in that form in terms of like the distance between galaxies so many

► 01:56:49

is so it's so similar they might vary slightly and that's slightly might be hundreds of millions of light-years right but but but there's so much uniformity why would we not assume that that uniformity exist pretty much everywhere and that all these things that you're seeing that are so similar you do see binary star systems you do see single star systems like sorry but there's also some some speculation that Earth and that our solar system is one time was a binary star system right mean that's one of the the speculations about that that object that they find outside the Kuiper belt that the thing is ten times larger than Earth they think it might have been at one point in time of star but this this uniformity that you see why wouldn't we think that that that has its same implications biologically that there's some sort of a biological uniformity and that this happens given the right set of circumstances you should be you should tell him some of the stuff that you've read that you don't know is true I mean if the stuff was true about the propulsion stuff I mean anyway he well what have you read what you saw

► 01:57:49

to and you know what are you talking about Spill the Beans Bob I got to poke the bear here let's get some more liquor in you the

► 01:58:01

well I mean the again the the only thing I could verify was what I had my hands on they were you know there was talk of weapon systems that there were different projects project like Galileo project sidekick was supposed to be weapon applications of the craft project Looking Glass had to do with time any effects of time in the craft now I don't think we're not talking about making a time machine like in science fiction but we're talking about you know small distortions intentional distortions of time and how that can be used you know as a not as a well it was part of a weapon program how are you informed in this base again we're just a small briefings that I read but again I don't really like to talk about those because I don't have any information on him and it was just you know small briefings they told Commander favor that what he saw might have been a time dilation and not well good because gravity affects time

► 01:59:01

you know space-time I'm sure you've heard of that and you know what what Commander favor saw as he was in the F-18 approaching it he said it he described it as a ping pong ball in a cup and shaking it back and forth it was moving that fast now obviously if there's anything inside there it's going to be battered to hell but you know my point was was that well one of two things either there's a gravitational envelope in there which negates any inertial effects or you are seeing through a gravity Distortion field so you know just like you're looking at a hot highway and you see you know certain Optical Distortion going through there well the same thing happens in gravity and the craft may not actually be moving like that it may just look like it because you're seeing you can only see it through the field so it may be making much more gentle moves I'm not saying that's it

► 02:00:01

it it has to be one of the two and the thing shows up 60 miles away they noticed it on radar 60 seconds after left Commander favor but it was at his cap point which is the next point he was destined to go to 60 miles away and in 60 seconds on radar the same object ends up there so it's going a mile second know they I think the radar just picked it up in 60 seconds yeah it could have been there instantly but yeah we don't know the cycle time nobody knows that that's all things also its Cycles like radar Cycles again 10,000 in doesn't sweep but I mean hands yeah it's a planar array so it's just you know scans around it random place to spy one does the really cool it doesn't do the whole Loop anymore right in the point the point is though that the craft moved to his next location before he knew where his next location was going to be Jesus and that's

► 02:01:01

I mean that's well documented so that's that's a pretty shocking piece of information was fascinating to me to is that you were discussing this the way this reactor worked and that these things were not really connected no nothing is connected there's no wiring at all

► 02:01:24

that freaks me the fuck out charge your iPhone you know yeah well Wireless a little yeah yeah I mean that's the that's a well then we'll electromagnetic yeah I know again but that's just simple electro magnet magnetic induction probably me Tesla the scientist had this concept of right that's what yeah that's what I'm talking for other yeah we're saying that he wanted to send wireless electricity through the sky and Westinghouse was like get the fuck out of here with that like when anybody could just pull electricity I this kilometer yeah they couldn't they couldn't we just talk of the car right over a try to chill him out you know we're talking about Tesla and how he you know you can be metered and how it all went down so it's funny bring it up yeah that that mean who knows what would have happened in terms of innovation had he been allowed to go forward with that well we probably wouldn't have computers you think yeah I'm pretty positive well I mean forget about micro Electronics well this is dumping huge amounts of electromagnetic energy in the air and yeah we'd be able to wirelessly turn on our lights

► 02:02:23

but there'd be no radio communication the interference would be something we could be overwhelming it would induce electric currents in anything with a small wire on it so integrated circuits transistors would be disintegrated before they were even you know tested for operation so it would it would affect us up yeah it would have stopped us dead we'd have it be great you can turn lighters on and heaters from all over the place with no wires but it would stop modern electronics and if we became dependent on it it would almost be like our dependence on fossil fuels although its destructive it's very difficult for us to get off the nipple it would have changed the course of how he developed which is so interesting when you talk about it a civilization of the star system didn't even start with fossil fuels they had 115 naturally on their planet and they're like cool anti-gravity is pretty awesome well the fact that the I think it's important that that actually happened yeah

► 02:03:17

it might have been stopped in its tracks for a reason whoa and it's just it's I think it's incredibly difficult for us to imagine technological progression under another timeline other than the one that we've experienced yeah that's difficult if we imagine what this alien race must have been like and me God just just to be able to see something to like mean obviously we've seen it in different life forms right like we see the life of certain beetles in comparison to the life of certain fish very very different existence very different life cycles octopus yeah octopus yeah I mean we see all these different variables in terms of biological entities on Earth but we don't see it in terms of technological innovation as we're the only one that's intelligent that can innovate when we have intelligent creatures but they're in the ocean the only other thing that are like us are dolphins and orcas and Wales and they don't have the ability to manipulate their environment and subsequently because they don't have the ability

► 02:04:17

manipulate their environment we put them in fish tanks and we're like getting the tank do some tricks right the only thing he saw in the craft if we are considering Bob Story the only thing that you he saw in the craft that he related to that looked like a human could make was this honeycomb hatch and I always loved that because you're like obsessed with this thing that you could recognize how the rain yeah I only focus on that because it was the one thing that I understood how it worked was and it was it was the access to the level below and it was well you know if you take debit a six-pack of beer and you take out the cardboard dividers set it on the table you can put a lot of pressure on the top

► 02:05:01

but if you push it from the sides it collapses flat so it was something like that in a honeycomb shape that was essentially some sort of sheet metal and you could walk on that and upper layer but if you took the corner stuck your finger finger in and pushed it collapsed and made a an entryway so I thought that was a really unique I'd never seen that before and it was the only thing in the crap that made absolute sense to me as it I we can make that and all that is is a hatchway was there any discussion about the materials that were used to make the craft I'm sure there was but that was a Metallurgy division had nothing to do with us she never got a not even the slightest briefing I don't even know if it was a metal or it was ceramic it's I think there's a fine line between the two now one of the things that's happened to you that has allowed people to discredit you was there's obviously been some sort of an effort to erase your past

► 02:06:00

yeah some sort of in a RAV4 an effort to erase your education history your employment history at Los Alamos in fact the only way your employment history was proven at Los Alamos has someone got a list of directory of the employees from the past and read into it and you were on that list so it proved that you work there even though people are trying to deny and they were trying to use that as a way to discredit you that you never did work at Los Alamos you weren't really scientist what was what was that like to experience and of course we're talking about the 1980's the 1990s when you could get away with something like that yeah obviously there are a lot less a lot less records on computers at that time it was still file cabinets and yeah folders but yeah that was frightening that was one of the first things answered

► 02:06:48

I think it's I think George Knapp was the first one that uncovered that I mean he saw my birth certificate disappear he disappeared yeah it was no record of you being there was there was no record of that there was no record his mom tells me about that like it was frightening for her he's got a real family you know he's real person is frightening for her but if the Los Alamos thing really surprised me and that there was so adamant that now this guy never worked here don't be ridiculous and George went back and forth you know for I got the letters on the world yeah - I mean it was ridiculous but fortunately somebody came up with a 1982 phone book directory I mean and also originally I told you you know when I work there I was on the front page of the paper so they were still able to Archive you know break bring that back from the archives and it got you know Bob Lazar a physicist working here at Los Alamos oh there was at least something there but somehow George came up with the the

► 02:07:48

directory lineage or then Bob took George with cameras into Los Alamos oh yeah yeah so we flew out there and I said look come on in I'll show you where I worked we'll go in will meet people and George went with me and you know me as I navigate the place so you know yeah and you know met people and you know and looks almost is also the place where they had the machine that was able to read the desai's of your digits no no that was an awesome that was S4 that was asked for and explain that so now this is back in the 80s and this is back in the 80s where when you discuss this people like this doesn't even exist yeah okay what was it it was a way you know this is before fingerprint scanners and you know and anything of

► 02:08:34

anything any high-resolution scanner that time so what it was was a device that had a little picture of a hand on a glass plate with pins in it so you could Jam your hand in there and there was a bright light above it and a sensor underneath and when you put your hand in there the light would turn on and it would measure the bones in your finger because the light Shone through your bones and apparently

► 02:09:00

the length of the bones in your fingers are extremely unique and easy to measure and they use that when you put your hands on there the light would turn on and your badge would pop out there's it

► 02:09:11

there it is that's that's it and I tried to describe this to people and they said that is the most ridiculous thing we've ever heard and I said hey that my badge came out of that thing I put my hand on it badge popped out and that's how I could open the doors and get into S4 and you know and everybody discredited that they said it was bullshit with science science fiction and Jeremy you found this I found it through a good friend of mine named Tyler Rogue away and he had some good sources inside of every 50 to where they also used these for the stealth program right around that time so now I've got all these people that worked with in who you know said only if you're in certain programs would we use this technology is kind of shit actually didn't keep it for very long beginning of Biometrics so I was able to reveal it in my film I kept my mouth shut until I showed it to Bob you know the movie is the first time he saw it was how you see in the documentary that's his genuine reaction I'm getting Goosebumps I was a great idea that the way you did it thank you ma'am because you know what guess what I'm actually trying to see if he's

► 02:10:10

on the truth that's how I started you know that's how I started so it was really cool to see that you get to see it his actual reaction has that been verified by other people yeah so yeah so to me it has personally I get emails every day and people are telling me where these are used and how they're used in a semi photos I got a lot of photos of identy mats now well how they were used right there not how they were using but yeah but I don't the most recent one was way more recent than I thought another country but yeah that technology was used so what's so funny is that this technology even in the area 52 or they'd use them for Tonopah one of the guys who will go on camera when he will do an interview with me he was a technician for one of these and he hated them because they were really bad they always broke down and never and he was a technician for him now he won't tell me where if he worked at area fifty two so it's probably Tonopah it's very separated even base but yeah so there was that yeah there is

► 02:11:11

your education record that was also like what happened with that

► 02:11:16

well that disappeared also you know that I have I've never gone I've never gone anywhere for Education I've never gone I never attend any classes at Cal Tech I never attended anything at MIT

► 02:11:31

you did attend classes in those places I did attend classes and those places do you know anybody that you went to school with that yes I do and have they verified that they went to school with you well I gave Jeremy some names but people yeah I the reason I don't say these names publicly is because every single time I mentioned a name somebody gets injured don't want to be course yeah yeah of course but what is that experience like seeing your birth certificate erased seeing your employing well it's frightening it's absolutely fright it's also the fuel that the debunkers use the so-called are quote Skeptics I don't like the term Skeptics I'm going to say this publicly because I really really said this privately I think it's a sloppy lazy way to look at things to just be a skeptic let's there and I want people to be objective and I think there's a lot of things you should be skeptical of I think you should be you should look at things and look at things

► 02:12:30

from a hard-line science perspective you should be subjective but the idea of Skeptics the problem with that is you're always looking for things to be bullshit yeah and I think that's dangerous because I think some things aren't bullshit confirmation bias on the other end you did exciting to take a square thing and put it in a round hole no matter what and I find a lot of them to be lazy yeah a lot of them to be lazy thinkers sure because they're always putting it into that box instead of going hmm instead of just separating their ego they're trying they're playing a game and the game is calling bullshit I want to call bullshit and I'm going to line up all these reasons why it's bullshit and I'm going to ignore anything that might be contrary to that definition yeah that does every time I'm thinking I'm going to catch him in something you know all along this process I found dr. crangle he came forward and said I was in security briefings with Bob Lazar the physicist at Los Alamos he went on the record with me now the other people I talked with why won't they go on the record with me because they're still working there

► 02:13:26

so that that's the difference right what is that what can the public have or even if they're not working there that you know they want to live their lives while I mean obviously people have seen what's happened to you Mike think pin after 30 years yeah really and if you look at all the information on you know concerning my accounts that's that's verifiable it can't possibly be a bullshit story anymore it's really way past that point I mean that was my big pain is I mean how is I was a possibly know

► 02:13:58

so Mike Thigpen was the guy that did the security clearances to go to the bait one of the guys that we have is a guy that you work with he said he did right and and George Knapp you know George didn't believe him George put him through for polygraph tests right he tried to see man this is a big risk it sounds interesting but let's see if he's telling the truth one of the things was Bob said there's a guy named Mike think Penny did security clearances for the base and that's a weird name it's a very specific for 30 years George found this guy in this weird Department that he didn't even know it was my think pin the guy wouldn't talk to me goes to him totally goes on for 30 years used Facebook and Google image match through his children I was able to find him after 30 years and I talked to him three times on the phone he lives on the East Coast he almost went on camera with me confirmed that he did security clearances for the base in 1989 confirmed he remembers Bob Lazar and what you don't know is there's a handwritten note that a friend of yours has

► 02:14:57

from Mike what I normally give it to you later I don't but that is real that is actual so handwritten know this is what you know like this is new to me so when the when you're

► 02:15:09

when I do security Clan to clearances they go through all your friends and family go defense yeah so this is to bottom I had people come to me for a friend of mine that's serving and they doing a security clearance for him and even though I'm like the UFO guy they did you know the FBI come and visit my house and make sure that they talk about my friend and they lift a little card and when my wife told me to get away because he didn't know who they were they left a little card it's super cute now back then it was a handwritten note and his friend has it for him that you haven't seen in oh my God two decades so if you're listening I'd rather tell him what is what is this card it's just a little handwritten note with Mike Thigpen signature card like a like a like a postcard look a piece of paper that he left on the door saying when Bob gets back or whatever it says on it so it's just another little funny thing I found the guy he does the security clearances he admitted to me he did it and he admitted to me he was dodging George Knapp because when George said his name on The Writ on the on the news he dropped his Fork into

► 02:16:09

steak earned his potatoes or whatever and he's looking at his wife he was in trouble his name's never supposed to be out there like that just a security clearance guy but you don't want national attention associated with anything Bob has to say but anyway this unique name Bob said for 30 years and the guy goes to George Knapp George could prove he existed he actually talk to me man he talked to me three times he almost went on camera with me it's just crazy what what do you what happens after 30 years you just get more info well that's one of the reasons why when you and me and Jeremy and George Knapp had that conversation on the phone yeah I said I think what we can do with this podcast is important I really do I think it's important for people to hear this from you in a very clear just very concise way

► 02:17:02

and if you examine all the information that you've said today if you look at all the things of the detractors of said if you look at all of the new recent evidence that's coming out and all these really high level people in the military and the government that are discussing this it gives you far more credibility than you would have had in the 1970s when this came out fuck yes you can't ignore his story just because you don't like it anymore that's why I thought it was important that you come out and refresh the world's memory and let people know and like I said I've been honestly I'm a fan of yours but I guess I'm a fan of yours is a human being I'm a fan of yours but I've been following you for decades I've been following the story for decades I mean I'm kidding I have VHS tab like a lot of the world has yeah it's crazy well anybody that has any sort of vested interest or just even just a fascination with

► 02:18:02

UFOs is fouled your story because there's no one else there's no one else that comes for there's some guy who said I worked underground with the aliens they shot my hand off like there's a bunch of wacky dudes that they're underground is basis they're shooting lasers through the Earth's crust and move them had light speed there's a lot of those guys they seem schizophrenic they seem crazy they might even be dissing formation agents they might be people that are designed to muddy the waters which for sure has happened these people are coming forward though now it's amazing and by doing this what you're doing you're providing an opportunity to search for Bob to tell a story you know believe it or not he can tell his story it's amazing because more people will come forward now that are involved with these projects they'll come forward to you to me they're coming forward and so what you've done here is provide that opportunity if they need it and it's amazing I just want to say Bob just don't come forward to me don't come forward to leave why we're freaks why were you freaking nauseous at the beginning of this like so upset why was your

► 02:19:02

I have a migraine because that started off so hard my God I was sitting here like this why are you asking them why because obvious anxiety the guys gone to 30 fucking years of being persecuted for his birth certificate I just want to hear from you I want to hear him say I want them to say that you don't just get it I step out okay settle down

► 02:19:21

yeah I well I get it you were you were is hard for you to get him here you know and I appreciate us yeah well you don't like it what really annoys me are the people that think you know you guys just came up with the story to make a bunch of money or get a bunch of you know attention and what's a good points look please explain that first of all I don't get any money out of this at all and I met I didn't even let you guys buy plane tickets for me to come out here anything I mean any time like when Jeremy pre previewed I guess the movie Up in Michigan I mean they it brought in like a couple thousand dollars I made sure that two thousand dollars went to science programs at the local high schools there I don't dirty money I don't think touch I don't take any money from this stuff and as far as attention I hate fucking attention I don't like being on chose I just want to kind of hide in the corner and do my own thing so that's I got enough hugs when I was a kid okay I don't need any attention so now the if

► 02:20:22

if you think somehow we came up with this thing then you got to tell me why we did it well you've done a great job of making sure you have your bases covered in that regard that you haven't profited off of this and like you said that you have donated whatever money that came your way to science programs it's I mean it it doesn't make any sense any other way I mean what your but I've gotten out of here is what I thought I was going to get out of here when I watch the documentary that you what you're saying makes sense it doesn't make sense it's bullshit had happened exactly like I said it did Joe I believe you in closing there anything else you'd like to say

► 02:21:02

now I can't think of anything other than really don't come and try to visit me well I know that you have paid a huge personal cost to get this information out and I mean maybe you didn't understand what that cost would have been when you first initially came forward with a story but over the past 30 years it's been immense it's been great and I just want to thank you for that and thank you for all these people that would not have gotten this information and would not have really had this story any other way oh thanks Joe thank you and thank you Jeremy and one more time the documentary is available on Netflix right now yeah it's called Bob Lazar Area 51 and flying saucers all right that's it folks good night

► 02:21:48

thank you for tuning into the show and thank you to expressvpn expressvpn voted rated the number one VPN service by techradar is what I use their fucking great it's less than seven bucks a month you can get the same expressvpn protection that I have and it comes with a 30 day money back guarantee protect your online activity today and find out how you can get three months free at expressvpn.com Rogan that's exp ress VPN.com Rogan for three months free with a one-year package visit expressvpn.com Rogan to learn more we are also brought to you by 4 Sigma Matic delicious and nutritious mushroom coffee and mushroom Elixir and we have a special offer for listeners of this podcast you can Retreat resourced free but really what you can receive 20% off your for Sig Matic offer when you go to for Sig Matic.com Joe

► 02:22:45

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► 02:23:18

and last but not least we are brought to you by LegalZoom you no longer have to go to a lawyer's office to cover many of the issues that you would need legal help on legalzoom.com has got you covered and LegalZoom is not a law firm so you don't pay by the hour that's right and you can save 10% with legal zooms friends and family discount just go and enter the code Rogan at checkout when you go to legalzoom.com this is a limited time offer so hurry to legalzoom.com and use the offer code Rogan legalzoom.com LegalZoom where life meets legal I told you fuckers that was a good one right that was when I was thinking about all day sometimes I do a podcast and I'm like oh this is gonna be cool like yesterday my friend Andrew Schultz Charlamagne Tha God I'm like that's gonna be fun I'm looking forward to that this one I'm like whoa this is intense I had a dinner with Bob last night we had drinks took him to the Improv and the

► 02:24:17

door I wanted him to relax dude is fucking nervous like legit nervous like before the podcast started he was having migraines I mean it's fucking intense I can only imagine what it must be I mean let's assume he's telling the truth and I'm assuming he's telling the truth I could only imagine what it must be to be that guy so thank you to him thank you to Jeremy Korbel for bringing him in here and thank you to you without you fox what would I be doing I'll be just talking to the void all right I love you bye