#1276 - Ben Shapiro

Apr 3, 2019

Ben Shapiro is editor-in-chief of the Daily Wire, syndicated columnist, and host of “The Ben Shapiro Show” is available on SoundCloud and iTunes. His new book "The Right Side Of History" is available now everywhere.

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hundred nights that's a long time it is in fact the very mattress that young Jamie rest his weary head on every night you can get $100 towards select mattresses by visiting casper.com Rogan and using the promo code Rogan at checkout that's casper.com Rogan and the promo code Rogan for $100 towards select mattresses terms and conditions apply my guess today is he's a polarizing figure I enjoy his company I enjoy talking to him but I think anybody that's conservative in this day and age is polarizing and he's definitely conservative but he's a kind man and a bright man and I always enjoy communicating with him please welcome Ben Shapiro experience

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Joe Rogan podcast by night all day

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yes would live Ben Shapiro I mean I'm going to go back to my office and fire every night because I mean it's either a lot of people or I could have cars in my office but you wouldn't go down this route you're more of a conservative Gentleman by myself boss nobody tells you how to dress and get you dress like a grown up to tell me how to dress with people who do my hair photos of me

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I've got that kind of comes down over the forehead and I still walk into the office wearing basically an undershirt everyday cuz I'm incredibly lazy when it comes to that stuff but we we may be more relatable when if you showed up wearing like flip-flops and t-shirt

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thank you I appreciate it you're just concerned that the Dirty Little Secret so much about you being so misrepresented when I read things about you would never say that we're just talking about the alt-right sage without the rage they called you in 2016 were the last four years Radiology is how evil I think white supremacy as many personal like people with yamaka is typically not the favorites of the alt right and then beyond that I mean I think their ideology is legitimately a devastatingly off a Twist on what western civilization is supposed to be was amazing as a review by the book and my new book has several sections and they're dedicated how terrible the alt-right is and then the interview they did with me and talk about alt Right Stuff

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at all but they just assume I'm on the conservative right that must mean that I'm all right it's like no you stupid simple matter to try to categorize them as the enemy and instead of just addressing these points I I love watching your debates where you do Q&A with college students with people in the audience because you can see you agree with you or disagree with you you have well-formulated ideas this isn't just some bullshit that you're spouting at you thought these things through 17 and I start at that point and winter 17 you think a lot of dumb stuff and then get older and you educate yourself and hopefully you have some cogent argument chapter 20 years of doing anything but it did the demonization is pretty astonishing we had Anton Andrew Yang he's the only Democratic candidate who has agreed to go on the Sunday special that I do we did a full hour on YouTube

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I was perfectly nice it was perfectly coherent and and and conciliatory and get people will suggest that everything I do is about destroying people on the other side because of all the Ben Shapiro destroys videos not there are certain groups of people with that's their stick their like their goons they just go after people online for attention yes it's this is a stick this is not you and this is what bothers me so much and I know that you said some things in the past like particular about Arabs and like when you were a younger man that you said I should have said that one particular was the tweet that was part of a tweet thread which are specifically contrasting Israel and the Famas leadership and saying that the Israeli government likes to build and Have Nots leadership would prefer that their citizens live in sewage pumping but that was a bad weed obviously you're my entire history Muslim relations is one with I supported the ability of ilhan Omar to wear a hijab on

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they on the floor is President Trump's originally proposed Muslim ban in the last three weeks I've had on Moschino eyes I've had on contact Med I had on yesterday Arif or Muslim like he's our conversations that have to be had but to take this is one thing that bugs me so much that I think a hundred forty thousand times I've written millions of words I'm sure you can find something I don't even remember having written by the way I tried to look up all the things that I think I've done wrong and I apologize for so I'm fine with it but this is what the problem you're not dealing with honest people when people try to categorize you is all right or they're they're trying to put you into this category of Internet goon there

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quote tweet just taking some little tiny phrase you said seven years ago and trying to save this is you this is you now it's so that's such a disingenuous thing to do I hate it and I crossed the aisle by the way that was a defender of James gone I thought James Gunn get up now is not an attempt to actually make the public space better and you're not actually offended by that thing the person tweeted 10 years ago that you didn't notice what it is that you want to get rid of this person I've heard this person you're going to bring up something from 10 years ago and what they said maybe they apologized and they maybe they think I don't remember saying that I felt the same way by the way I try to be consistent I really do about about the stuff I said the same thing about for example Ralph Northam they the governor of Virginia who is excoriated for having this terrible racist photo on his yearbook

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Jackie medical school in 1987 and ended up doing what everyone now does which is you just don't apologize for anything you just trying to pass it off as a nothing worse because in the past there a few human responses to I did something I don't like him past human response number one is you know what I apologize that was wrong these days that gets your face stuff done are you say I apologize I was wrong and what why did you do it in the first place because you're a bad person apologies are not accepted and then number two is you Brazen it out you the Trump I never did anything wrong ever I've never been perfect and then nothing ever gets cleanse opportunity number three is you duet Barack Obama did witches you come out preemptively and you try to remember all the bad stuff you do and then confessed it in public so in dreams from my father he says right one

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when I was back in highschool did everything go okay so you did cocaine when he was in high school that's that's cool where is it comes out during the campaign problem the problem is right now even if you preemptively come out and say I did something wrong like for example Liam Neeson talking about years ago when he had a racist thought that he didn't act on but had a racist thought this is now we're going to try and ruin your career for something that you admit was bad that you did 30 years ago we're going to try and run you over that if you apologize for something to eat at 30 years ago what you would have preferred just got forgotten cuz it's embarrassing and stupid then we say you're bad until all you're left with is like the most Shameless people in the world for in the public Space by the incentive structure is to be deeply Shameless to just say yeah man I own that and it was great when I said it or I didn't say that all of it I never said that stuff know who you gonna believe your eyes are me and it makes it makes me really bad politics

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well it's just this the culture of of going after people for things in and finding anything to categorize them as someone who's a viable Target and this is what I've seen trust your way it's like there's nothing wrong with being conservative there's something wrong with wanting everyone to think the way you think though this is the difference like you will you wait but I like that you do is you debate your point you state your position so you have a philosophy and what I don't like is when people try to pretend that that philosophy is some some somehow hateful or somehow regressive or something like that you condemn people for their thoughts you you just you don't this is what it not what I see with you I appreciate it virtually every including people who have personally targeted me I've come out against that have come out against virtually every what year was talk about that because what are your thoughts about this idea of deplatforming and you know this is something that we were just

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cussing before the podcast where the CEO of YouTube and Kara Swisher is in a swisher they were talking about removing you from YouTube and I thought it was the CEO of YouTube views are actually Carro said I would if I could only listens to that's kind of funny but it was I thought it was the CEO of YouTube she's trying to the same thing that they do with you or with Dave Rubin Jordan Peterson which is anybody who is sort of heterodox because in that group I think I'm the only registered Republican Everett anybody who's heterodox is now being a box just thinks differently from disagrees that Islam is by necessity of religion of Peace for example or he thinks that we have to look at actual statistics in order to make evidentiary face point about discrimination and disparity

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an enemy of people like Ezra Klein inbox.com this sort of stuff then say that you're a feeder for white supremacy and then they can't actually get you on what you say some members of your audience do things that that are really bad is it going dude I have millions of people were members of my aunties have 5 million Facebook followers I've 2 million on Twitter and some of those people are going to be crazy to try to make people responsible for the comments and their video switch what is a normal Jamie like a normal video that we get how many comments to get my supposed to have some dude with his itchy trigger finger standing by in front of a keyboard just waiting for something offencive to pop up and this was in response to something that happened with them where there was paedophiles were watching video

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children doing things and they were commenting stuff in the children's gymnastics and stuff like that there were commenting and in like communicating with each other through the comments and it was sort of discovered that there was a disconnection they were doing this and many many videos and YouTube rightly Panic they look Alicia Witt stop this so the response I guess was we just have to make people responsible for their comments good idea at all one side of the aisle show me to take an example of congressional baseball shooting happens a couple of years ago guy happens to be shooting a legislator do people really die and we don't talk about responsibility but there's a shooting in Christchurch and it's Jordan Peterson salt

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what is my fault I have no relationship with the shooter in turn down to everything that that piece of crap stands for and suddenly is it it's really ugly and it's going to come home to roost I mean can happen is Facebook and YouTube are going to fall prey to their own standards because of their standard is that you're responsible for your followers or I'm responsible for my followers or Jordan or anybody else is responsible for all the people who viewed their stuff okay then why isn't Facebook responsible for all the people posting on its platform if they are write a Facebook becomes responsible for all the people posting on his platform in a week and got a problem they really do because they have to decide whether they are platform or whether they are a do-gooder publication on our platform and if we say something to him at or you will be sued if we say something that is false then we will be sued presumably if you post something false on Facebook Facebook doesn't get sued but now they

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book is Dean to chop the morality police no ban people they don't like and we'll decide what editorially ought to be elevated what are not to be able to that time with the phone company to you or is that 10 more like my website where I decide what gets published and what doesn't break is Facebook's case for exemption from these laws is what would like the phone company right when you're on the phone with somebody if that person says something criminal AT&T is responsible for the person saying something criminal or terrible just the phone company but Facebook in doing that Facebook is is

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jumping into the middle of conversations and then saying well we don't really like this conversation so we're just going to shut it down not because of legal threat but because we just don't like it so they actually do you put a post up on Facebook and they don't like the way you worded things are described things were they actually shut down your post what will they do pretty controversial cuz they're not transparent at all I can tell you that the beginning of 2018 week we lost about 35% of our traffic because Facebook started cracking down on mostly conservative sites they said that it was going to new sites generally but that's not what the statistics showed they're doing it more often with things that we all serve agree are bad right we all agree white supremacy is bad white nationalism is that stuff is awful and evil and those people are the ones they're the reason I have personal security but once you get into the business of Facebook gets to decide which speech is good and which beach is bad

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third editor even if I agree with your assessment of what stuff is good and what is bad I am not comfortable with them in the driver seat there and if they're going to be in the driver's seat than they should be held liable for all the stuff that's on their platform why isn't Twitter Twitter same thing right why is it that Louis Farrakhan is still on that platform but Alex Jones is not like I don't like Alex Jones in the area I've been very very critical of Alex Jones I didn't think you could get banned from Twitter unless you actually violated the law in what she was responsible for a violent threat what was the famine Tori or something definitely going down this road of being the moral arbitrators there they're the ones who get to decide what the conversations are in the that's an insane responsibility responsibility of getting to dictate what should and should not be discussed and to have to be a handful of people and have these people almost almost exclusively live in the Pacific

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liberals who really if you're around those people they live in this really strange uber wealthy bubble of super genius with Spectrum people who are coders and super capitalist and people that are raising money all over the place and Designing Technology and they have an ideology and it's not necessarily a bad one just just being honest and upfront about what it is it is incredibly Progressive which is very unusual for big business right for big business to be just openly transparently Progressive even pushing social justice very unusual what variety of owners of businesses and how they think about politics obviously guy

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I think Mark Zuckerberg is ruthless with Progressive I think Jack Dorsey is as ruthless as the next guy when it comes to profit I mean you still got to be answerable to shareholders so I think I think a lot of the progressivism is sort of a way to excuse your own in your own involvement in the capitalist market Facebook took off don't be evil Google right Google what you're saying and why would you ever take off don't be evil like sheep that but I think that if our tech companies were honest they should take that stuff off like stop pretending your do-gooding you're not do good in your providing a platform and maybe the platform is a good write in a capitalist economy the product that you provide is the good I don't need additional good to come from your product right if you want to provide me a salad morning drink right I don't need your politics along with that I just need to drink

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well if I want social media company I don't give two craps about what Mark Zuckerberg things about politics dude hasn't studied it I don't care at all what Jack Dorsey who vacations in Malaysia and gets bitten by a million mosquitoes while meditating have to say about the nature of life like what why do I care about Jack dorsey's political you provided me a good the good is this basic chat room where I'm consuming it was held that would just be enough but it is not enough for a lot of these folks it's it's the 10th of Cooley from Silicon Valley we're going to pretend that we're here to do good and it's not enough just to acknowledge that it may be the thing that you provided is the good like Bill Gates has done more good with Microsoft then he has done with any of these Charities is it a lot of money to charity but Microsoft has provided legitimately hundreds of thousands of jobs and print it in Norma sleep productive lines of business and made enormous profit for a lot of people. People have stock in Microsoft as a general is a basic factual thing he's done more good doing that and giving tens of millions of dollars to to various

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outside causes so it feels like a lot of the progressivism in in corporate halls and in Silicon Valley is bifurcated mentally it's like people have a dolphin is one side of the brain on a Time here's my here's a capital of cyber I got to make money and profit and then here's my other side where I show people what a great person I am by a proclaiming that I'm for Bernie Sanders well parking my money offshore to make sure that they're it's shielded from the from the. Yeah well that's a good assessment what I'm saying is the don't be evil thing or one of the things that I thought was so what if that was like a legal decision was me being cynical that they were pulled into some sort of an office and said if we say don't be evil and you take someone off the platform you're accusing them of evil we should slow that down the self-assessment of you are the moral police

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red eye talk about social standards and how people should behave in their personal life when it comes to government when it comes to me and posing my views on you I am way less of a top I am not here to tell you that you're not allowed to be on a platform because we disagree is one thing for threatening violence which is an actual violation of law but this crap where people like me because I believe in a social fabric built on certain judeo-christian values forcing it be part of that and I'm not I don't think the government should compel you to be a part of that I'm the Tyrant but the person who sits at the top of Twitter or Facebook who sang that they get the police what you see and they're going to nudge you in the right direction nudge you in the right direction without your consent without them even telling them what you're doing right that they're just they're going to push you a little bit because they know better than you and they can sort of massage you in a better views if we control your channels information this is something to eat Obama administration is very fond of there's a scholar and cats understand the legal scholar and he wrote a book called the handbook

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any idea if you can just use a non-forcible means sort of nudge people in a particular direction without them even knowing they're being nudged then shouldn't we do that and I think know you shouldn't you shouldn't because transparency is the only way I can tell what kind of oil should you trying to sell me will not just your closing down even conversation if it's soon as you trying to silence this other voice if you if you believe one thing and another person bleeds a different thing you should probably talk about it and the way the way that I know for sure there's something wrong with your argument is if what you're trying to do is your sneakily trying to silence these voices and again as long as we're not talking about threats of violence and as long as we're not talking about harassment or doxxing right we just talked to my conversation you just talking about people with different points of view if you want to silence different points of view I have to wonder about your intent I have to wonder about what are you going to this conversation with good faith I have to wonder whether you really objectively assess

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they're not use your argument does hold up against scrutiny cuz this is also part of the problem and when you're in an echo chamber you off and don't formally these arguments very well like when you confront people about certain bias beliefs they have and you you ever an opposing beliefs if they're part of a bubble it sometimes they might not even ever considered some of the things you have the same seen that with some of your videos of Decay 2 people would ask for my entire life literally my entire life in areas where everyone disagrees with me to Harvard Law School for more than a week at a time in a red state of your conservative values moved in one way or another they very much but my political values have shifted libertarian I mean so I used to be a proponent of criminalization marijuana I'm no longer I've been in papers what changed

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sucks at everything and the more I see the government try to crack down on things and more prevalent becomes I mean before dealing pot on my 6th grade 7th grade playground in public school and then it's terrible General General perception not only the government sucks at everything but that you got to own your own actions and also examine the evidence about the impact of a pot on people's lives and then there's you running your own life through use of drugs and there's drugs that legitimately ruin other people's lives and their drugs that remove your ability to even reason or think I think there's only two reasons to criminalize drugs in any fashion one is if there are drugs like for example PCP that legitimately make you violent and then you are going out in committing acts of violence against people then there's case or if you're talking about a drug where it legitimately robs you of your capacity to reason if it were built heroin if you were able to actually crack down on it successfully but even though I'm not

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let the proper government solution is criminalization because we've criminalized it and it's still incredibly prevalent so agree with you but I agree with you and I agree with you in terms of drugs being extremely detrimental in the other part is it that there is comprable drugs that are legal incomparable drugs meaning not even really caught with drugs that are far more devastating like alcohol you could just go to any grocery store and buy a jug of whiskey and kill yourself getting drunk so I'm not sure that you need additional laws to do that and also may I want a liquor store right now. This is correct on that sort of stuff the same thing is true by the way when it comes to the issue of same-sex marriage so on a personal level I am opposed to same-sex

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Orthodox Jew and I believe that a man and a woman were made for each other when it comes to government involvement I don't think anybody's business add to my mental strength I don't think premarital sex is good thing right I've been very vocal about this I was a virgin until I was married my wife is Virgin until she was married I think that's a good thing I think the government has anything to do with any of those things no I don't think any of the government's business it's consensual activity there are no externalities so what exactly is a government getting involved in and when the government gets involved in stuff then there are externalities right once the government starts to cram down its Vision on people then you start to get unintended externality so for example with the light with the legalization of my my view on marriage is that the government to get completely out of business I don't think the government should be involved in straight marriage annulled marriage

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I have the one from the state that I don't give two craps about it's buried somewhere my garage and then I have a certificate which people the religious ceremony matters a lot more than the state saying nothing and the state isn't incentivizing there if you want lyrics to like yeah I need the tax break that then comes into conflict with other values so for example once the state of California besides the same-sex marriage is only go par with heterosexual marriage now I'm worried about the externality of I have religious day school or I have but mic night synagogue my synagogue is a religious institution it doesn't approve of same-sex marriage act with regard to same-sex marriage but everybody gets to do basically what they want associate with whom they want and it seems like a pretty good happy medium I'm so glad you talked about the two things that I want to talk to you about that I'm sure we disagree if one of them

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marijuana and the other one being so let's start with the marijuana one do you think marijuana ruins people's lives is its what is that one of your contentions I think that it can and I think in the second ever had any experience with marijuana and jumping about the overuse of marijuana among teenagers does have detrimental effects after effects it's pretty proven and that's one of the things that I really am glad you said that because I wanted to cover that what you were in the middle of a rat when we were joking around about 6th and 7th graders selling pot don't smoke pot when you're young you really should it's not good for the development of your brain same thing with drinking you know I didn't smoke a lot of pot when I was a kid I did it a handful times 1230 years old but I did drink a bunch of times when I was in high school and it's terrible for brain develop right especially before you're twenty-five and your frontal cortex hasn't even fully formed your frontal lobe is like this it's it's it's a developing thing and there was an article recently that I post

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BBC that was saying that you probably shouldn't be considered an adult until you're Thirty right brain development doesn't even stop until you're 26 or 28 fuck are you talking about when I was 16 I was a champ high school now what the problem that I have with many people's perceptions on marijuana is that it's based on ignorance meaning not no personal experience with it you know and may I see the effect on stock prices when did the marijuana thing is in my opinion it's another one of those things where people have this this categorized box that they like to put marijuana users in like this is the

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category lazy Stoner stupid delusional there's a giant percentage of the Jiu-Jitsu Community a does Jiu-Jitsu high they have competition because it's not what people think it is if you've never smoked marijuana is it going to be a very difficult thing to the grass but marijuana enhance is Jiu-Jitsu because it eliminates the rest of the world when you're rolling which rolling is like say if you and Jamie you can have a sparring match that would be rolling like it's slap hands and then you go and you trying to choke him he's trying to get you in an armbar and you're going after it when you do that on marijuana it's like you don't think of anything else other than those movements and it becomes like this very intense meditation and violence like you violated terms of most of time you don't really even get hurt it's like you get to the point

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Beautiful Things by Jiu-Jitsu so you can grab a whole someone and choke them to the point where they're going to go to sleep and you would kill them if you kept going and they tap your friends again and everybody's cool and you try to do it to me and I try to do it to you and you really can do it reasonably hard without people getting hurt it happens every day all throughout the world allow these people are high and they're doing this Jiu-Jitsu practice in this all almost like it's a it's a Transcendent State I would assume there's a small subset of the population for him that's not true right or over using marijuana yes and that's probably the majority in fact so then I reach I don't think there's anything we disagree about here because I'm not talking about criminalizing marijuana use rubbing that we we should honestly discuss the evidence that for a subset of the population there is some evidence the marijuana

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is addicting but it's a subset it's not everybody who's on marijuana the vast majority of people on there one or not addicted to marijuana alcohol anything and I think there's just absolutely people that are addicted to Sugar that's for sure people that are addicted to nicotine and alcohol and all these things we let people have and it's not even comprable to alcohol or nicotine it said something seems to be very rare when people become physically addicted to it extremely rare and what's what's common though is abuse and it's common in everything that you meant being consumed it's abused as common as we said with food certainly, with alcohol it certainly, the pills and some of these problems is a social fabric problem like an apparent problem it's a social fact that problem too personal choice problem virtually every solution I suggest it's so funny and I'm constantly

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accused of being non compassionate Solutions don't involve the use of government that it's a free country. Coming from religious background you have this community that reinforces this kind of behavior and thought and I think that's one of the major really one of the best benefits of religion is that moral Fabric and that Community the sense of community even silly ones like Mormons you know that they're the nicest folks right to believe something that is fucking patently insane if you go and read the Joseph Smith text from 1820 Movies 14 years old the shit that he wrote like what you're up early on the American Republic the idea is that what makes America very different is the idea you don't need a big government when you do have a supportive social fabric with ankle feel like they're least oriented toward a common goal it's one of the problems that I think we have in the car

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right now I'm not sure people are oriented toward even a common sense of of conversation you don't have to agree on on everything in order to have a common sense of the important values that that unify the country or showed us because she's obviously a militant atheist I'm I'm equally equally strong believer And yet when it comes to the things that we would like to see happen in the country not on government policy level but let's have a conversation level and discuss on evidence level we're on the same page there certain assumptions you have to make in order for that to happen am I arguing that America and West is that those course options are built on judeo Christian foundations Sam's argument seems to be that they're built on evolutionary biology we we differ a little bit there lettuce marijuana think Cody wanted to bring up to you was this idea that if your religious person

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don't you think that there's certain things that maybe God put here for us to consume to change your perspective to allow you to reach new levels of consciousness it's entirely possible that some of these things that are here and I know you have an experience but they might literally have been put there by God and there's some evidence to say that a lot of the text from the Bible that it in particular there was nothing was the University of Tel Aviv somewhere in in Jerusalem where these Scholars were they were trying to decipher what it meant when Moses and counted the burning bush and they believe that it may have been the acacia tree which is very rich and dimethyltryptamine which is a psychedelic substance that actually that the brain produces its very common in plants and they think that this might have been when he met God and God was a burning bush that this might have been some crude translation of them

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involved in some sort of a psychedelic experience now it sounds outlandish unless you had that psychedelic experience and when you have you very well could think that you were in a conversation with god this is on Earth and this is something that may very well have been lost information or this may very well have been rituals that people participated in to bring them closer together and to reinforce that sense of community that you do get from a church and if you do get from a group of people that share more beliefs and values and there's a there's a real good discussion that a lot of these experiences that became these religious doctrines came from psychedelic experiences that was someone who's never experienced that before I know this is probably a very strange thing to try to even wrap your head around as it is entirely alien until you experience it but it might very well be religious and I've heard that from other people who have been abused those kind

► 00:42:01

baby apples and therefore it's ours to use or a B I mean I can coach her really got me pegged him so I'm not a huge fan of the argument that because something is here or because energy is natural therefore we ought to imbibe or therefore we ought to participate in a particular activity yeah one of these things that I hate that I'm very big on a rationalist when it comes to religion as much as you can be a rationalist with whatever religion that I think that it's up to us to use our reasoning faculties to determine the proper use of things so which is why you shouldn't overuse drugs even if you're going to use drugs for this is part of the problem making memes illegal you make things illegal then you really don't know what it is or how it affects the body or what's the right dose of the wrong dose and then people get involved these terrible situations where they're taking things they're just guessing that it is

► 00:43:01

so true that on a social level I'm not talking about legal cuz we totally agree on the legal level on the social level there's a couple of things that are true of free sample the Orthodox Jewish Community low rates of addiction because people have that social fabric don't feel the necessity also we are as you say something to use in moderation can actually be quite a good thing so low rates of alcoholism in the Jewish community in part of that is the fact that you are getting Kiddush wine from the time your kids are artistic this could be a good thing so I don't know when it would be a good thing and so I can't sing and railing and I like experiencing it totally sober so I've never really felt the the urge to it to do any of that stuff I hear the pitch but I've never really felt the interior designer needed

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completely understand that I think that what we're dealing with dough is perceptions that have been molded by laws that were shaped by tyrants that's what I think that's totally possible and plausible and accurate I mean when it comes to Prohibition probation with alcohol did Prohibition with drugs is just making the cartels bigger and it's causing more problems of organized crime at a practical level is bad for you is also based on laws that the government created ignorantly these sweeping psychedelic Act of 1970 which made virtually everything psychedelic that they could they missed a few things do you think slip through the crack but all of the trip the minions and most of them psilocybin LSD all that stuff is made completely illegal by people really didn't even know it was a lot of that is why we based our

► 00:45:01

ideas of what's good or bad for you it's it's based on what is legal and what are its I have examined the evidence I really don't have strong opinions on any of the stuff I think it's one of the bridges that we all could use between conservative thought and liberal thought particular for people that are dying it's one of the things at Johns Hopkins found and there's been other studies done and there's been therapy done on people that are dying of terminal diseases and they give them psilocybin and when they give them these mushroom trips they have these beautiful experiences with a completely except death and it's almost a universal reaction to it that did like the the amount of people who still experienced a positive benefit months and months after the experience while they're dying that they they say this was an incredibly moving and Powerful moment in my life that allow me to accept the fact that my time here is done

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listen if if that's something that that works for people that's what it's designed to do then it's designed the generalized religious counter-argument that there are no shortcuts to it no shortcuts to happiness guarantee you that tomorrow you're going to be a happier person all you have to do is take this regimen of of drugs that you're going to take every day and it's going to make you a happier person a more well-rounded person but it going to permanently change your brain chemistry is that something that you think is good or is it something you think is bad cuz I'm religious perspective there is an argument we made that these are this is work you need to do on yourself without outside Aid if possible if there's a case where you can have any can't but you know about that he said that there was a joke about there was a monk and he met Bood up his Buddha came to town

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impress me said I practice the city of levitation and I've done this for 10 years and now I can walk on water and the Buddha says put the fairies only a nickel

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what are you fucking waste your time like you can Aid the progression rapidly with psychedelic drugs and this is something that you know what do you know about Matt and their work with MDMA and soldiers that have had PTSD it's phenomenal by giving these soldiers MDMA therapy meaning they they give them MDMA which is essentially what people think of is ecstasy the street maybe they give them pure MDMA and then they assist them with that they actually have a psychologist sit with them a therapist and they go over all these details of these traumatic events and they come to peace with everything and they've had profound benefits for soldiers and for we some combat journalist that different people would have been over there and have experienced the horrors of war and just general PTSD may be violent attacks that is shown to be one of the very best thing we've ever discovered

► 00:48:13

for helping people get past it to me and I can think about this on the Fly cuz this is the stuff but it's equation to the extent that if you're talking about somebody who has PTSD somebody has a condition and the only way to help that condition is to use these drugs I've never had a problem with any of that stuff right away. My grandfather was was schizophrenic and by may be bipolar baby schizophrenic to diagnose not exactly who they prescribed him lithium made him a lot better would have been better off struggling with schizophrenia of course not it's much better that you should have a lithium and then be able to live in his rational mind so when there's a problem using drugs to get past it and and work with it is a good thing you do run the risk of the sort of Brave New World situation where you have a group of people who have a certain level of air SATs happiness that is not driven by point of view but more by just the chemicals in their their body

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are you you've already talked about maybe the future right he talks about the idea that maybe the future is we just drag ourselves until we're happy basically more of that happiness is the drugs because if you're assigned to the material if that's what it is happiness is just a bunch of chemicals going through your body so if you can bring them in without self change but I do wonder whether that robs people of a certain level of purpose that the struggle is part of Being Human I think we're changing what it is to be human just by carrying around phones and it just being a human worthwhile is the idea that you are struggling and I think I think the struggle is actually meaningful and I think that's why religions tend to set prophylactic rules sometimes for good and sometimes for real so for example there's no question right it's it's in my hand all the time and butt from Friday night to Saturday night it's off I can't look at it and forbidden from looking at it and this breaks the cycle at least for one day a week and that's a

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thing that makes me better as a human being gets a limit I set for myself and then a limit that I have I buy and if you believe in in self-mastery what was the happy medium between self-mastery and I need a little bit of a and I think that there is a happy medium there but I'm not sure that that your drugs are the answer to everything is under that blanket in that blanket can be entirely negative or extremely positive that that it's a problem the problem term because with these are our substances that are psychoactive and some of them can be extremely beneficial and some of them have short-term experiences that last with long-term results and I don't think that there is enough knowledge that I don't think the people that are negative against it have experienced enough of it or have looked at it in

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objective rational way because I think it's something that could be here take a prospective to give people a chance to think outside of their normal conditioned way of thinking that might have been established by their Community or by their Church by The Neighbourhood where it is sometimes a little bit of a break a little bit of a mental break from what you're experiencing the end of the vibration that you exist on almost every day to separate from that and to get a look at it from the outside sometimes it allows you to have renewed perspective that can enhance your life greatly as long as when people re-engage the re-engagement level of your very disciplined and I know that a lot of conservative people admire that and they Meyer that infost and they think that people who are liberal are not discipline they think that they're lazy

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it falls into this like week beta male serve category of people that are progressive and liberal I think that's I think that's a misunderstanding I think you guys you and I both agree that the struggle is very important but I'd struggle physically so that I don't have to struggle mentally I struggle physically so that I can have a better way of looking at things with less stress so it we have this shared belief that things should be a struggle Maestra I force my struggle on myself so that I can have a better perspective and this is something that you and I did like I think you exercise right makes a big deal struggle is a it's an important part of understanding yourself if you do not push yourself if you do not struggle you're not going to really get who you are or what your boundaries are and if your self-indulgent if everyday or stuffing things in your face

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do you want to like it's good to have a rule like hate for this next month you can't eat this or you can't do that or I want you to start fasting 16 hours a day is it that hard just eat for 8 hours a day and fast for 16 just doing something like that and setting these guidelines for yourself and putting yourself into a a discipline state to be extremely beneficial like Jocko willink discipline equals Freedom if it is a great formula and it's real and again it is the basis of a lot of religion I'm in a lot of religion is very practice-based one of the reasons I like Judaism is opposed to other religions say very practice-based religion you know sometimes you can take that too far in One Direction what should I say you need to balance reason with with dictates that are meant to make you better but that goes all the way back to get to practice to be good right at the brightest to be virtuous what makes you a virtuous person is acting repeatedly in accordance with with right reason and that is setting rules for yourself right that is not violating every rule

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when we talked about on the counter beside your folks on the left being lazy I don't mean that in terms of War Mark Zuckerberg is a hard worker I assume mosquitoes but most Muslim people both people of jobs are hard workers I don't think about that I think it's it's it's a certain perspective on the necessity of rules and the mindset that if I don't know what a rule is for I'm going to remove it so g k Chesterton had this is very famous kind of contrast that he drives between people who tend to be a right-wing political people attend politically he says people who tend to be left with politically you're walking through a the walking through the woods and you come across a fence find out why the fences here and then maybe I'll remove it and that's the kind of burkean conservative attitude toward rules the attitude that this rule was put here for a reason. Maybe the real sucks maybe the real has to go

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trying to figure out what was at the root of the rule before we just wipe out all the fences and then try to rebuild from the ground up all these new Fenton and that's especially true in a civilization it's the most prosperous and free civilization ever created any of this system really sucked tell me one thing but I think people are kind of ungrateful about the fact that we live in the best possible Time Indy best possible place okay in 1901 in 10 American children died in the first year of life in 1850 the average life expectancy in Europe was under 40 so what are you talkin about what are you talkin about the biggest problems today really prefer the vast majority of people is that we are too fat or that we are we don't have a job but we still have somebody who's basically making sure we have food like starvation is not a serious problem in the United States there's a problem poverty there's not a problem widespread starvation affect poverty tends to align with obesity unbelievably great society so maybe

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back at the root of that Society before we start willy-nilly tearing up all of the all of the moral boundaries this is the greatest time ever to be alive I think what these other folks are saying is that we can do better and I think we all agree with that but your butt to classify this time as being a terrible time is I think holy an Acura keyless right meets The Bernie Sanders populist left and that is them walking around saying how much they suck and it's like no time it's amazing time for communication to amazing time for people to understand other people's perspectives in point of view which is one of the reasons why deplatforming and in silencing of conservatives even though I'm not conservative fathers of shit out of me I just think it's a it's a it's a non-hormonal action in a time that I think could lead to people having much more open and much more balanced communication me the time when we are having

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American mobility in the United States of the number of people for leaving their home state to go somewhere else to work a job for example is at decades low why it's easier to get anywhere now there 7 million on philjobs I keep hearing from you folks flight personally like to play Tucker Carlson that you know you grew up in the small town in the town as well that the government somehow it was it to you that you get to grow up in this town and stay in that town even if all the industry left and I just think to myself by whom who who gave you this guarantee that you get to stay there and I know it wasn't I'm a lucky guy I grew up in a two-parent household income for middle middle class like I grew up in a small house in Burbank with two bedrooms and I had three sisters three sisters and in one bedroom and one bathroom for 6 people that's not poor that's middle class that great life

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and understand some people don't have that wife but one thing that is guaranteed to you is the opportunity for adventure in this country so go and move like a white why are we in cocaine in a feeling of victimhood in a society where if you make the right decisions you will do well I mean not you might do well if you make basic basic right choices you will finish better than you started in American society and we were talking like the most basic choices like finish high school and don't have a baby out of wedlock and get a job like you do those three things in the Brookings Institute says that you will not be in front of poverty in the United States like that's amazing that was not true for the vast majority of human history who has majority in history did all of those things there was a nice cool but you did all the other things and then you live like a serf on the farm until he died

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did the lack of optimism in a society where it should be running rampant is is kind of astonishing to me what what's perspective mean rich kids grow up with this perspective of constantly being rich and people grow up with this perspective of how they view the United States is this negative thing or that they don't know how to change their life they don't know how to take action because they haven't had anyone around them that it's done it and that's part of the problem with small town mentality says that you kind of inherit the vibe of the people around you and if they're ignorant or if they're with their shallow-minded or if they're stuck in this one town and they're never going to leave and you get caught in that Vibe you can one day wake up and you're 32 and you've never done anything for any small towns near basically been told that they have two choices they can go on welfare they can leave

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problems I have with the welfare state generally is there to disconnect the person receiving the aid from the person giving me Aid is it an artist and really does good work he said my family doesn't have enough money to make the rent this month can you offer me an advance on article by somewhere down the road so I sent him a check and he understood that five years later he came back and you still haven't bought that I owe you a piece of art because he knew who gave him the money and so he was willing to understand that that was an act of Charity and he wanted to make sure that that that was paid back is this in Cinderella Man right with Russell Crowe that that moment where he makes money walked back into the welfare office in odd that the government is interested Ryan cash machine that exists to pay good money but that that money actually comes from somewhere either is coming from at the future because we have to pay back to that or is coming from somebody's tax money and that we all owe something to each other

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by the same token what what I owed my neighbor's is that if they're in trouble then it is my obligation as a good person to try and help him out on a personal level but I'm talking about without without that sort of dutiful sense to one another you can't have right because if you just have right then and and no duties then there will be no one to take care of each other as white while I'm libertarian when it comes to government I'm very conservative when it comes to the need to build a social Fabric and communities and and and have people with working families and in communities Working Families I really think that that's one of the best things that comes out of religion is when you have a tight-knit community like yours and you do have that sense of Charity will you really are community of people that care for each other and look out for each other the problem is of course doing that large-scale and then the problem is doing it in some sort of a non-denominational way we're people that they don't have to have the exact same beliefs but they still share these core

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values of community and taking care of each other mean that's what people really benefit from when they've done studies of people when they show happiness and what has happened is correlated with its almost always and correlated with friends and loved ones and family writes the most important thing you can have pioneered the idea of social capital and what he said is that he went in with it to writing this book with the idea that diversity is our strength and then he did some research and what you found is that ethnic diversity only correlates with two things these are his words increase TV watching increase protest marches that's all it unless unless it is within the boundaries of a common goal so if you walking to church very diverse ethnically everybody's got the same general goal which is worshipping God in 1/4

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and when you talk to those guys while they're serving or after they leave they don't give a crap about that of Earth backgrounds with people they were serving what they're all aiming their guns in the same direction well in the United States we have to be aiming are guns in the same direction or we can't really have a functioning social fabric at all and I'm perfectly willing to give charity to people who I don't know who still believe like I do that America is a fantastic country rooted in immutable good principle but that's starts to break down when I'm being asked to give charity just on a personal level to somebody who believes that America is fundamentally evil and needs to be torn out at its roots and replace with something better because now we're not aiming in the same direction so on a human level I care about you but I'm a butt on a social level if I have a choice between somebody who basically agrees with me about fundamental values and somebody who is diametrically opposed to get my money is a person who basically agreed to me I must find a Metro Valley so I don't have to be a Godly charity from me or from you but I do think

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but you do have to take into consideration a few things and now we're on the same page personal responsibility the idea that you do live in a free country just historically and relatively speaking this a free country which makes decision making is on you so man up a little bit they eat that the decisions that you make we should all have sympathy for people who have had worse lives and worse experiences but in the end if you are capable if you're not fundamentally disabled in some way that you need to make a plan for your own life and then you need to do that like are you more willing to give charity to somebody who has a plan for how to get themselves out of the hole of course of course you know but that relies on that person feeling obligation to do that but I also think of what you're talking about with was at charity within the community is so much more that there's so much more connection then charity from the government when you're talking about welfare the problem is if there's is dissolving of responsibility because it's just a check that comes in that you feel like well as a rich country I mowed this anyway

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when I was a kid we were on welfare and we use food stamps and I remember being very ashamed of it and feeling really weird that we were that poor that we needed help from the government but my parents work their way out of it they were young they had a kid be a contractor stories Adam Carolla is Right Adam talks all the time about how his parents were also on food stamps and Welfare and they just like you could work why aren't you and that gave him the impetus to get up and do what what atom is done so you know that that kind of pick yourself up by the bootstraps because Helping Hands are good but it is if I if I were capable of picking myself up by my bootstraps what I do so and the answer is yes then we're all on the same team has a real problem too and it's some people just get a

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terrible hand at Delta. I'm sure there was a parents that really doing a terrible job raising them to fucking him up every step of the way around a bunch of people that have criminals everybody's fucking up but there's no examples of anybody that's doing well I mean it's one of the unique things about the internet today instead of kid that's in that environment can get a hold of maybe something that you said or something that you know someone else is sad and start reading books and start taking in information that gives them a different perspective and fuel that perspective with more motivational stuff and more information and education and sometimes kids just like you were saying with Adam Carolla these parents that are just not ambitious and also they become very ambitious and they work very hard to not be like them and sometimes it's good to see that example but most the time it's it's just fucking hard for them to reprogram their head for sure it's hard to do that until I really think that there's there's a lot of focus in the country right now on raising awareness which is Raising awareness of our history and I

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things that we've done should know about all the good things and all the bad things on the idea that people's lives are getting better by suggesting that are perennial victims in the United States I just don't I don't understand how that's a good thing no matter what you do you will be put under the thumb of dominant Society that's a pretty horrible message to a kid and I think that's true for politicians again on both sides of the aisle I think you get it from from President Trump when it comes to some rural areas where it's like well it's a Mexican and Chinese come in to steal your jobs and you're under the thumb of people are trying to destroy it and on the other side of the aisle people who say well in the inner city and therefore the cops are racist against you want to destroy you and everybody is out to get you and see how about this how about like again the single best thing you can do for yourself is make basic decisions that are entirely within your control for bed

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single motherhood is a choice that you get to make about your life that this is a choice you got to make a better life finishing High School unless you are legitimately disabled in some way he'll USA where you basically have to be able to read the third grade level to finish high school and I just just like these are these our decision personal decision making if you want to have never seen somebody's life Get Better by complaining about reality I seen a lot of people's lives Get Better by acknowledging that reality is what it is and then making personal decisions to make your lives better and that's considered non compassionate but it seems to me that the essence of compassion sometimes you saying at least make the Baseline to take if you make the best decisions and then you fail we can talk about what happened I don't think it's non compassionate I think it's pragmatic and I think you're right but I also think that there's some people that are

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Darien situations that require something external to assist them there there the way they are life has been set up and this is what I think when people think about compassion and people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps if you have a real if you really have an honest and accurate assessment of extreme poverty and terrible neighborhoods it's not as simple as do something good to better your life part of it as you got a fucking stay alive part of it is you're surrounded by people who either have committed crimes or will commit crimes you mean one out of every four people you run into my via criminal in the worst neighborhood in the country right for sure two things cutting other people the contraction other people's money are great at it and they'll see that they're right on top of parking tickets by the way to make sure that they just paying money

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very good at and and pointing a gun at people are these the two things that was built to do was wiz collect taxes and pay out money and then point guns at people write this is what government does which of those two things would you apply the situation where there is just a complete lack of social capital because cutting a check isn't going to do it alone where's that check go to the parents were not doing not able to protect their kid who got a community or something that's why I say you have to attach if you're going to do the government welfare than you got to attach it to a plan it can't just be here to check enjoy your life because of what is the plan communities you live in apartment complex is the other side what the government does which is you need more cops in that area I think that the great lie the fields of these communities that are crime-ridden I'm talking about white Appalachia and I'm talking about these these these communities do not need any more cops because it be precondition

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investment in those communities and increase tax dollars in those communities and increase social capital in those communities of people not getting shot every 5 seconds in areas where crime is high it just doesn't make any sense and it's not just me saying that Jane Leeves reported the LA Times very much on the left has said the same thing while biting people want crime rates to go down like conditions I-84 conditions to change in the community of the wild whites of wild and wonderful Whites of West Virginia is it was a Johnny Knoxville did he produce that documentary I think you did right dude it's about this family that lives in West Virginia that is just a bunch of psychotic criminals is these crazy white people that the kids drinking Mountain Dew and doing backflips on the bad and they're all on pills it's bananas and it gives you this Insight like if you are in this community if you were in this family and this is obviously very extreme family but there's many more of them

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does it have not been documented if you wore in that Community good fucking luck getting out right good luck the money that you get other than welfares from selling pills you know everybody's on these pills so you're all whacked out you don't know what the fuck is going on half the day you're on opiates MIT is bananas environment and there's a lot of people like that in this country for sure and for Latino communities and poor white communities in poor black communities the idea that these people just going to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is crazy I just think they don't have a plan and I think if we really want to help them there's got to be some way where you can give these people the opportunity to step out of that pattern whatever that community center's Outreach programs whatever it is I don't know what it is but the truth is the truth is that historically speaking it was people actually going to church

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good involved and having that framework sort of a fake Social fabric with just a government welfare system like it just it. It has brought them in disability exist everything every year it's it's not visit episode comes out on Sunday and obviously Andrew is a big fan of Ubi the idea of you Bia in a future where legitimately 50% of the population can't work cuz they've all been automated out of existence and all of this but there's one section in his book where Andrew talks about how if we cut people a check for Ubi then they will spend the extra time creating art and engaging in hobbies that they like and I just thought to myself like people on disability that ain't what they're doing if you're on disability the people you're talking about who are suffering they're not out the writing poetry reading the rise of the opioid epidemic and people who are od'ing on drugs and and all the stuff that's in precisely the same demographic

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that you're talking about a check from one place as opposed to another place I don't I don't really see how that solves the problem I think we have a crisis of purpose right now and I don't think that that price has a purpose is solvable on the one hand I change car trade rules and I also don't think the deck prices of purpose is solvable by by cutting a government check I just don't think that that's how people are wired I absolutely agree with you that there is a crisis a purpose my concern is about Automation in my concern and obviously haven't really studied us other than talking to Andrew Yang and talking to Elon Musk and a few other people that are proponents of universal basic income they think there's going to be such a massive loss of jobs in such a short. Of time from people that are non skilled laborers and it's it's going to go away there's millions and millions of jobs and these people are not going to have anything and then it could be chaos right so there's there's two problems that come up there and this is where Andrews book is interesting because the people will be poor or they won't have a source of income but doesn't even to give them a thousand

► 01:14:49

hours a month without taking the economy which question will we could do that we could a trillions of dollars to the budget every year and we could tell that I'm still not sure that that solves be deeper problem which is it when people lose jobs there was purpose right so I'm not sure that you bi solves that problem cuz I say we have we have a rich social welfare Network in the United States and we're seeing this stuff happen anyway a little bit catastrophic am I thinking about automation then then either Andrew Yang or Elon Musk think the people be able to adapt quick enough to suit to avoid the problems of realize that jobs aren't there anymore and they'll just naturally gravitate towards other professions overtime that people will do that they're not always the same people in the economy and the model has a trunk or becoming a coder right but that's

► 01:15:49

Twitter learn to code with journalists then that is targeted harassment on Twitter that's what I said was it to me I think that if you just say to a friend who fuck face learn-to-code they didn't I know it's today examples of how censorship stat oversteps boundaries in becomes almost like satire ever learn to code that's something but this is a stupid thing that someone said about coal miners they really said that about coal miners that maybe they can learn to code and see how everything became a joke

► 01:16:49

there is no explanation for it was so crazy it was like no then learn to code. Connect with Waze is white supremacy and I can't go around 1 okay white supremacists are bad they use the phrase learn to code that means if you say learn to code your white supremacist feels good man frog that's what happened to Pepe the Frog they turn the freaking frogs gay people saying this is the the Nicholas Nassim taleb view of reality which the Black Swan and it can happen any any second so watch out for it versus the sort of Steven Pinker view of reality which is the Black Swan incident is called a Black Swan internet because it's a Black Swan incident meaning that it happens and probably rarely the idea that we are on the verge of a catastrophic drop-in job numbers because of the automation of trucking for example I'm not sure that I buy it the reason I don't buy it is because

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you still don't need someone sitting behind the wheel of that truck there human drivers on the road it's going to get there will be a gradual transition away from some of these jobs and talks about Radiologists and Howe radiologist are going to be priced out of the market by computers that can do a better job at diagnosing tumors first of all awesome I mean that's that's good for the girl that brings down cost and you won't get cancer is Advanced a lot of Technology Studies have intended to show is it technology just get integrated into different way and in particular career so there will be jobs that are eliminated for sure they'll be jobs you haven't heard of that will be created also and mostly technology we will become more of a productivity Aid to two people so this is true in factories jobs in new Austin packers' the best example of our jobs are lost but it's mostly turn off because you have computers what's your office jobs exist because I write by hand do you think the government bailout like the idea of the government bailout was like the banks are too big to fail and some people

► 01:18:49

you know what you got to let them fail so you figure out why they failed and will never have it happen again if there is this thing in the government steps in says wait a minute I know you lost all your jobs going to give you $1,000 you have to figure it out a thousand dollars a month and some people go okay I'm not going to figure it out now where is those people might have gone on a fear filled journey to try to figure out their purpose in life because now they're still stuck with her job doesn't exist anymore so there and I don't mean that that stuff is true it does happen in Milton Friedman main argument for Universal basic income as a replacement for the welfare system there is another problem with universal basic income was one of the big issues is that poor people very often people fart per million population of people were temporarily poor but they tend not to spend money where we think they have to spend money

► 01:19:49

putting it into education or into the barn and cigarettes the average person who is making less than I think it was $16,000 a year is putting $400 lottery ticket channel is Flushing money down the toilet so it's it's so how do you aren't you just going to end up back in the same place you can go in six months or people took that money and used it in ways that actually didn't benefit them in a certain point the question is are you on your decisions or do not on your decisions and at what level of incompetence or inability do we say you no longer on your decisions until we're just going to take care of you on a permanent basis that's that's really the question here when you're talking about welfare we're looking at worst case scenario right we're someone does get dependent upon the welfare state and does use that money frivolously and does make poor decisions but then there's got to be other people that are single moms that you know maybe had a kid with some fucking asshole it doesn't want to pay and it is a piece of shit and have to hide from them and they

► 01:20:49

just trying to feed their kids they don't have a community to to help them out maybe the not a part of a church then maybe they don't have a good group of neighbors maybe they had to move somewhere for work and they got stuck in some place where they don't know anybody hit single motherhood to go get more single motherhood I mean that these single motherhood rate in the black community before welfare was 20%. 70% in the white Community was like five percent is 44 out of wedlock children and having a kid when you're young is like it's a terrible idea for your life but what do you recommend to have kids avoid that are you one of those people that think I'm at a cat with no condoms don't have unprotected sex me like this is not my fake person

► 01:21:49

carnatic music Wichita happened to the kids suffer so the grandparents would take a pretty active role in the in the raising of think about 17 year old 18 year old and I think it's a better idea than a man walking away and the kid being without a man in the house

► 01:22:49

a huge percentage of American births in the 40s and 50s where exactly that's a lot of 7-month babies in the forties and fifties to 40% of all kids born in the thirties and forties and fifties were 7-month babies got knocked up and expectation was like you did that you do the crime do the time right place and Chip risen good and don't know if he's available to you I figure it out level compared that to having a baby and we're good forever but yet they keep making it like I think you guys enjoyed

► 01:23:49

a bunch of freaks

► 01:23:52

I mean there's no it's like a business's it's almost like you have access houses that Stack Up To The Moon but there's no way everyone's going to live in all those houses why do you keep making houses that there's no way one person has ever jerked off to every video that ever existed doesn't is not possible and it's also like other forms of media where they just stack up I never really thought of that until we get the music right there's all the music that existed before in the fifties in the sixties in the seventies and eighties and there's new shitt every goddamn Day That Never Ends is so overwhelming library of stuff that we have to experience that music you know what color should you listen to classic Jazz and classical

► 01:24:52

the only expensive object that I open other than my house is violin a tan in like a coronary, but those those ones are like $100,000 is in the tens of thousands of dollars think about it was a big deal I mean aside from the historic not making any more of them it does play very differently very different violin that was handed down to my grandfather that was worth every thirteen hundred bucks and it was a piece of crap I mean if you're good enough then you can tell the difference between a really great violin to play and one that is a piece of garbage and I was good enough to do that so that's yeah I mean I was at I was a classical guy played

► 01:25:47

I played violin for years and my dad was a Pianist just pull up the most expensive violin the world sold for an estimated 16 million dollars for a Stradivarius I mean really the person $50,000 maybe 10 years ago and he's like now that it's worth like three million dollars to know what is the deal like what if you had to explain what's the difference between the sound at this makes so I mean it has to do with the Acoustics of the instrument in the world quality there's a there's a slight variations in the construction of the instrument is a thicker or thinner and it is also it's easier to play better by 1 so it almost covers for your mistakes can you play Bad by Lennon Tennessee scratch and scratch more it's hard when you get the upper register with the violin hit during high notes I can either be very scratchy or can be very beautiful some of that a lot of

► 01:26:47

that's the player some of that's the violin to ever live. 15.9 million dollars in a world great violinist so but there's a but in the end it really is the quality of the player there's a famous Jascha Heifetz story where he was playing at Carnegie Hall and some lady came up to him afterward and she said you know your violin adjust it sound so beautiful when he picks up the violin puts its was here and he says I don't care right now

► 01:27:20

so do you listen to any other kind of music is really a band that was named after a joint that's how did you feel like going to the Doobie Brothers concert with the other Boomers so the other thing is same-sex marriage says we agree with the marriage thing should be involved I think we're people should be protected is through assets and you know that I think that that all makes sense to me at all that stuff in terms of like alimony and child support all those things make sense to me and that the idea of the community reinforces it which would then become the government reinforce and all that stuff that all makes sense to me I understand it

► 01:28:20

why do you care if two gay guys want to get married so from a religious idea is not that I care deeply whether two gay guys want to get married to each other the idea is that do I prefer traditional marriage to sit to same-sex marriage what do you think of gay guy is do you think someone's there making a choice or do you think that this is how they were born I don't know meaning that for the vast majority people are assumed that they have a biological drive to to engaging in that behavior but the traditional sort of will point of view is that biological Drive does not necessarily match up to the activity I meant for example have a biological drive to impregnate many women that's not something religion is cool with either

► 01:29:15

I Saw The Vig is my religion is cool with a man being with one woman and impregnating her but you're not cool with a man being with a man I can give you the religious explanation is that there is something different about a woman then there is about a man and a man is made better through his Union with a woman and that if you pervert be sex drive to pursue your pleasure instead of a lasting relationship upon which the basis of society is built then you are forgoing the proper use of your sex drive to step in and argue against that you would say that just because someone can't get pregnant doesn't mean that they don't have a loving relationship that contributes to society that's true but it is also for going the more productive relationship of being able to bear and we're children and also recognize the area

► 01:30:15

being with a man is in a relationship different than being with a woman I would assume I mean I send if I gay guys are gay from a from a religious perspective is more valuable because women have different qualities in men you round off each other's heart rate is it changes you being Mary changes a man in a different way than being married to a member of the same sex but I don't want people to have to do it but if you were but I want them to have the option if you're a gay person and we just say you don't know of course whenever I talk about my moral perspective on things that people immediately assume that I'm a Theocratic fascism underscoring personal views Dave rubin's marriage of no consequence to public policy in any way whatsoever I don't think it should be a part of people should absolutely

► 01:31:15

be allowed to marry and divorce and do whatever the fuck they want to do no matter who it is but but why do you care like as a person is a rational thinker it's pretty clear that people are gay and I don't really think that this is a decision they make and turned in terms of like I'm going to make a clear choice to defy God and be gay I think they're just gay and drive with activity which is something that religion fundamentally reject will try to do something at their identity participate in the behavior thinking that will it show in religion if a man is gay in your religion as a man is gay and they're in love with another man they should just squash those thoughts and find a woman

► 01:32:01

well ideally they would be honest with the woman that marries they're not like boasting about what I want to see when you describe this to a gay man they will tell you imagine Ben Shapiro someone said to you you should stop being with your beautiful wife and you need to now marry a man because this is what God wants you to do so you're going to have to stoop this man and he's going to strip you and then cuz this is how the rules are set up the folks me telling them they have to find a woman like I like what you have to find a woman you decide to participate in this religion then there is a buying to the precepts of the religion and the buying a scientist

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can't participate in so you can be gay but you can't have gay sex correct people really hate those parts say that a man shall not lie with a man isn't Sammy I can't be attracted to another man that's Old Testament right again when it comes to this is what I'm puzzled by is the idea that this is a unique area of human behavior that religion is supposed to treat differently any religion treat virtually every human activity like this then is a failure to abide by a covenant right that's what that's the definition of sin when you commit a sin in Judaism in a beira in Judaism what you are doing is failing to do a Mitzvah which is a command that you're violating a commandment well there lots of Commandments that go directly against what people are driven to do just because the drive is stronger does not make it morally more

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non culpable to violate so when people will pick this one out and it will this one is particularly intolerant for example I don't see why it's more particular intolerant then saying to a man you have to marry one woman or saying to a Jew that you are not allowed to eat this stuff or you did like it it may be harder questions harder but well within religious tradition like literally every religious tradition that there's a bunch of stuff you are driven to do that you can't now I got you don't have to agree with my program not trying to convert you not like we we actively discourage convert but if you're going to Proclaim that you are no abiding by traditional Judaism this is the buy-in right there's lots of by and you have to wear a funny hat sometimes you have to go show on Saturday is you have a future bought like there's a lot of buying and as long as I'm not bothering anybody else I don't see what business it is a legitimately anybody's what I think about personal relationships I'm not imposing my view on anybody

► 01:35:02

well I do now it's at that are all the religions Judaism probably makes it the most obvious they don't give a fuck what you do good do you think like you're not trying to cross the time my uncle converted and when you give birth in the secular perspective when it comes to valuing traditional marriage over over same-sex marriage that's a very simple calculation which is one type of America produces traditional children of children in a traditional biological way that you have both parents in the house to take care of the kid from its production in children to its two people who love each other the case for same-sex marriage against same-sex marriage went completely out the window so you are just sticking to your rigid ideology in terms of like what you believe to be ascended not believe this be a sin based on your religion based on the Spurs

► 01:36:02

strict moral fiber that this religion is operating when people have a better understanding about biology like it's it's it was proven if there's proven like oh this is why a person develops blue eyes this is why a person is gay this is why it is nothing wrong with it it's just a variation it's red it's freckles it's gay it's straight tell me that that homosexual orientation is 100% completely agree with that I think that there's some cases where it's not but those are rare but just to show that there's more sexual fluidity among female than male sexual by twos want to watch to hook up a checks but keep going

► 01:37:02

I've always found actually not particularly interesting simply because it doesn't take into account the worldview generally which is that a biological Drive does not equal excuse for behaving in a certain way but this that's where brings me back to this like is it possible that these laws in this religion were written when they're what do you think wrote the stuff you think people wrote the stuff but you think God wrote I think either way even if it were because I am a an orthodox Jew I believe that at the very least it's got inspired and God written right but even if I believed on a second level to the people 3,000 years ago had never seen a gay person before overseeding to lenders should we Greiner but this is also the argument against pork is cuz they didn't understand trichinosis then understand you have to cook the meat 245 degrees and pork parasites which are very dangerous for people

► 01:38:02

can of naturalistic explanations for religion X-rays of his head he had parasites from pork that I had gotten into his body and they have nested in his brain so it developing on the cyst inside of his head and they couldn't do anything about it cuz it was so deep in his head that if they gave him the anti anti parasite medication it would cause swelling of the brain and it was like it was it was so it's actually pigshit apparently it's people accidentally coming in contact with pig shit produces this particular type of parasite kenosis was pretty complex their attempts to sort of pink back into the Bible certain rationalistic explanations like this

► 01:39:00

I I think why else would you would it be bad to eat pigs like Jesus loves pigs so what's going on at the kosher laws in the New Testament point of view or we don't believe in the Divinity of Christ Dairy can make an argument that the the gospels which I believe is profit did you try to lead a revolt against the Romans got killed for his trouble just like a lot of other Jews at that time for crucify for trying to leave revolt against throwing to get killed for their trouble so he became Legend in story and it became a bigger and bigger deal last time we getting followers and then then gradually grew and then you have any miracles.

► 01:39:56

what I think happened that says in the Bible that was a strong East Wind so there's a naturalistic explanation for a physical phenomenon that makes sense I mean that's in the Bible you know that that is the problem with these text right is it you're trying to decipher translations from original tax which written in ancient Hebrew thousands of years ago and we're told and oral tradition for longer than that right now the right side of history number one. Number one the New York Times best-selling really is there a protest no protest yet but suffice it to say the New York Times book review or didn't like it but I'm not super shocked by that but on the one hand and

► 01:40:56

human reason on the other Greek reason really that that tradition is attention and that that tension is where Western Civilization lives the basically civilization is the suspension bridge it take certain fundamental precepts of judeo-christian values on the one hand and then takes Creek reason and if you have a bridge that is that is capable of building a pond that where you can actually have a functional civilization and if you lose reason in the name of theocracy than you end up with tyrannical theocracy and if you lose and he was religion the name a reason you end up in some pretty dark places that human beings don't have a very good track record of creating their own purpose of creating their own meaning of creating their own systems we tend to get very utopian very quickly things get really ugly which is sort of the story of The Princess and the first half of the twentieth century so this is the benefit of sticking to the rigid ideology that's prescribed by religion is that you don't allow the human beings to keep updating and changing it because if

► 01:41:56

you do they will eventually slide into chaos but they're probably in many ways does not resemble Judaism is practiced now even says that's me there's there's this kind of Moses is it sits what is call the guy that I watch some of these stories that are just going to put into the into the middle of atonement Moses comes back and he's watching from on high as a bunch of rabbis in in a second century Palestine art are talking about Judaism and he's like I don't recognize any of this stuff like I brought these books and I do not recognize any of this stuff and and God says to him you got to stand right I mean this is how this is Morgan Moses is pleased in other words he has always had a common law tradition we're using reason to try and develop the ideas behind the Commandments and then

► 01:42:56

try and extend them abroad them and I think that's a good thing but you have to be careful not to completely undermine fundamental roots or or get rid of basic precepts and over there certain fundamental truths that exists there and then there's play as far as how those are implemented does Judaism have one of those pray the gay away Traditions want guys to do like what what would you do if you were not to send thing that everybody does meaning that masturbation is not is not okay according to Judaism I assume that the vast majority of young Jewish men even the Orthodox or masturbating so people sitting I mean that's that's a recognition it's it's always again I think I can speak on behalf of I will I'll text you sleepy, have both Jews and Christians here I think that religious people are are told that when they say that something is ass in this means that they are looking askance at the people who are committing the sin and Dad

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not correct I mean what you use and Christianity say is that we are all committing sins on a fairly regular basis where we got a tight is when people start saying because I have a desire for this in this is no longer a sin

► 01:44:12

yeah the real problem is like what why is it a sin a coup says it's a sin against this these rules you were assuming our influence by God right but clearly written by people the this one you would say if you're a fundamentalist or at least somebody believes in the the idea that the door was given by God was given literally by God but again that doesn't leave the logic behind the rows with no people like maimonides have tried to explicate the idea is as I said.

► 01:44:45

the human sex drive was made to procreate with in a stable relationship in order to progenerate and have future generations of people misuse of that sex drive in anyway whether you're talking about from masturbation to homosexual activity is there for a diminishment of the use of that drive that's a natural law case against against homosexual activity I'm not in favor of any of this being encoded into American law because freedom is random people should be able to send how they choose so long as you're not harming anybody else what about people that have had vasectomies and what about women that also not cool with it if what if a man is sterile in the woman sterile are they allowed to have sex with no benefits to married couples having sex like relationship building

► 01:45:45

a generalized case against the favored view of sex right intersex people mean that there's no such thing as two separate Sexes there are two separate taxes and also their intersex people who have a condition that's the same thing they did the case in favor of heterosexual sexual activity does not change based on the fact that some people can't actually participate in that what would you do if a young gay guy came to you for advice if someone said hey been an admirer of yours I love the way you think and follow your philosophies but I've got a problem I'm young Jewish man and I'm gay and I don't know what to do what would you tell him to do I mean I can't tell them to do anything what would you advise would you tell it would you tell him to not act out on those feelings I would say you do the best you can is a human being

► 01:46:35

and from my moral perspective you try to avoid sin as best you can but everybody sends the problem is that sin though it seems to me that it was defined by people didn't understand by what you because they were dealing with humans existed thousands of years ago no books no real understanding of why is generally are linked to a view of biology mini met you don't think so no I think that all sin is a recognition that we have drives that we are supposed to forgo the net that's fundamental to certainly Judaism and Christianity is while I would say I think we can agree that there's some real benefits to discipline his real benefits to having structure and it doesn't mean that you can't be creative it doesn't mean you can't be free and do whatever you want some of the time too but I think we can both agree that this is one of the one of the best benefits of and I

► 01:47:35

geology a positive ideology good idea what you want to do like I've never had a conversation with Dave Rubin about about him being a gay guy I can actively participate in something that I consider to be a sin but I would go out to dinner with Dave and his Husband anytime my wife and I would do that of course we have moved her house with his husband you don't find any contradiction between your religious perspective personal perspective in that regard that you would you wouldn't be there for religious reasons but that you would be there for personal reasons like if it wasn't would you go to the after-party if you wouldn't go to the wedding would you go to the app part anything it was a celebration of same-sex marriage now so anything but like the party

► 01:48:35

text a weed cigarette and again like I'm not sure why I'm not a party person but haven't been to a party with you but I went to a dinner party with you and Jordan are you and I just love you and with a bunch of fucken psychopath just because it's convenient for them and it's an easy way to diminish you that that that is a that is a thing that I see more from the left then from the right and it's really disturbing I always thought until this clickbait generation came along I always thought that especially you know the New York Times has the higher standard but that you would never see that KY

► 01:49:35

shit from Progressive people you would never see willful Distortion of reality to Define their narrative in a really disingenuous way and it happens people get called my favorite is alright adjacent that means it doesn't they don't know what it means everybody into one group for purposes of casting their motives is Goofy but you know I think when it comes to the gay marriage thing what people really worried about is other people trying to stop people from doing what they want to do you don't have that in you that's not you what you are doing is opposing it from your your religious beliefs

► 01:50:35

religious beliefs that's their business by the way they're like I can't join a church I assume I don't believe the things that people in the church believe you probably could you donate to give the right amount of money given to Jesus so there's that there's a Jesus when people actually expect other people to view the world the same way that they do and then expect there to be catered to in that way like I wouldn't walk into I wouldn't walk into a gay-owned bakery and expect them to bake a cake that has verses from Leviticus on you know that big cake store cuz it gets bandied about those folks went to several Baker's until someone said no this is correct there looking for a court case

► 01:51:35

if you want to boycott them boycott them ready when you get all your friends say we're not going to go buy a cake from these discriminatory that's me the freedom of religion freedom of Association case is to shame a business into submission and also to put it out there in the public eye so that people understand that this is a discrimination that does happen with gay folks will they will go somewhere and someone won't make a cake for him right you know and so I think they wanted to highlight it so if I was being very charitable and I will out didn't think they're being attention whores I would say maybe that's what they're doing maybe they're just trying to highlight this very real problem took it to the government once you start showing if you just agree with you

► 01:52:35

having a government Levi like $100,000 fines on family bakeries because they because you can find a gay Baker in Colorado supposedly like that I'm sorry that's that's not cool and I feel the same way if I walk into a bank right now like you're Jewish when observing I be like okay you're a whole but all right I'm in free country and there's a bakery across the street from the bakery next door to you and take all your business it's unfortunate that anyone would ever think like that but should it be a law to force someone to think differently you can't get doesn't work this isn't this is my point is if you have those boots are my beliefs so leave me alone and I'll leave you alone if we can't have a sister

► 01:53:35

Dave Rubin that you wouldn't go to his wedding did he get butt hurt no pun intended no anger or upset about him doing come on man you have any friends I have friends but it's like very close friends and then acquaintances pretty close Social Circle the smart so much time in this life correct there people who make money on it so if you find someone is still asking for a ride to the airport that's a greedy motherfuker at this point

► 01:54:35

totally cool. I value community and I value a value people talking and trying to understand each other and I've seen so much conflict it's unnecessary cuz I see so much conflict that's rooted in people not communicating and is instead of communicating and I think this is one of the things that I'm most nervous about with all this deplatforming and censoring people in the silencing of people on the ride and it's not that I agree with these people it's that I see how this is just going to shore up these two sides and it's going to make it a much more difficult much more difficult atmosphere for communication for real understanding and Anna coming to agreements on things and and recognizing the things that we all all good people seem to agree

► 01:55:35

we should be kind to each other you should work hard you should have good morals and ethics you shouldn't steal shouldn't take from people shouldn't lie you shouldn't try to cheat the government you shouldn't read cheap people just be a good fucking person and that this this transcends religious ideologies that transcends political leanings it really does it should and we can have a truly diverse Community truly diverse not forced diversity diverse meaning some people are progressive some people are conservative some people libertarian you can joke with each other we can all get along together and disagree with things just not be fucking hateful towards each other this is possible but it did becomes less possible when people feel like they're being silenced or censored you're giving an excuse to get into their ship what what's really happening here slogan beyond the facts don't care about your feelings stuff

► 01:56:31

leave me alone I don't get into my shit like that I'm not bothering you so why are you bothering me and if I have a belief system it's different than yours then so the hell what as long as I'm not bothering you what difference does it make to you how I feel about things only thing about the gay thing is that it's not you you have a belief about things it's not you but it's so what I mean. Like I'm not a fan of prostitution so so kind of people hear something right but I can't walk a lot I'm not a believer that a natural desire to do something there for makes an activity okay but that's it but that's a view that has no externalities my Vue has no externalities on the same way and I believe about people who eat too much and get all these because they eat too much I feel like a bad thing to do I don't think my business do it

► 01:57:31

problem what you want it you want f up your life that's what freedom is called resume lots of things that people do and by the way so do you think that don't affect you right now we all do but as long as I'm not forcing that on you because they're not stirnella teacher Behavior I don't see why it bothers you like I would assume tens of millions of people in this country who believe that when I die I'll go to hell and I don't believe in Jesus and so there's a lot of people believe I don't believe in Jesus therefore I am Bound for hell that does not bother me one iota cuz no one's bothering me so what do I care but I don't understand why everyone doesn't take this view if I'm not legitimately bothering you why should I why should I care what I think like this is this is what would because somebody came to me anyone in my opinion on something because they value my opinion that much I get my opinion but if you don't have to care about my opinion I think we could come to the gay thing where people are looking for is to people for others

► 01:58:31

folks to be accepting of who they are and I think for a lot of these gay folks would have been the closet their whole life it's the big things they're always worried about someone treating them differently or some of diminishing them because they're gay then when they hear someone like you say that you think it's a sin and that you shouldn't act on your biology even though you have these urges that you should instead find a woman they feel the same pangs of rejection and the Confluence between activity and identity is actually kind of a dangerous one meeting then the idea that if I disapprove an activity in which you engaged I disapprove of you weren't I just proved a lot of activities in which lots of people engage including most members of my family including my children a lot of the time not me I disapprove of them as a human being and take their lesser as a human being that like we like it you disapprove of my view on this

► 01:59:31

a feeling you disapprove of me as a human being and I don't even know if that's bullshit what I do know is that it's a historical interpretation of stories that were as much as they could or as little as they wanted to be accurately defined and written down and then passed on from generation to generation to generation pigs are intelligent I wish they were a wild I have a deep Affinity two pigs have a really bad and I love them when I eat turn on Orthodox Jews I see how everything's about the think there's certain things which I believe or practice that you that you probably disapprove or you don't think they're that smart is to rethink that

► 02:00:31

you might not think it's a smartass but as I've gotten older and hopefully wiser I give a fuck less about why you do what you do but whether or not the benefits seem to be worth the juice is worth the squeeze right and in your case I think the juice is worth the squeeze I think you're a very successful person you're very reasonable you're very intelligent outstanding debate and I enjoy talking to you and listening to on YouTube I think part of that is because of the fact that your religion or religious I think it's cross training I think in a lot of ways it's like if you lift weights for jiu jitsu makes you stronger to make you do to better as long as you keep training I think your discipline from your religion has theirs psychological benefits to it

► 02:01:31

I would but I wouldn't I wouldn't I don't want to do it I don't know where yarmulke painful and uncomfortable all the time anybody else I really don't see the problem and I think everybody can sort of get over it like if I don't approve of your personal Behavior welcome to the club I disapprove of 99% of people personal Behavior including my own happen more often do you debate people on the merits of religion or the merits of your belief system he's so rabid as an atheist be at you guys from Sam is very very

► 02:02:31

is of his correctness and it is you point down sounds really just do it because of fast-moving Michael Shermer talk about religion and now that I'm not shy about talking about it I just sometimes I find that it's it's kind of a dead end because sometimes it just turned into I believe in God and then they're person like I don't believe in God we think are the what are the fundamental building blocks upon which you can base of society or base of politics and I think God is a better base for those fundamental policies and belief systems having free speech individualism democracies are based on a simple verse in Genesis that human beings are made in God's image I'm I think that's a logical leap my I don't think you can actually get to human beings are Ben estable inestimable value from scientific materialism if you believe that human beings are effectively just the animals that I don't know why they would be of infinite value nor why I should respect somebody

► 02:03:31

a system simply because their human but I don't respect animals and if we're just another animal there's no there's nothing that logical line of History it was not the logical line of thinking it was if you remember by tribe then we like you and if you're not a member of My Tribe and we get to kill you but us is that a logical comparison like isn't there a difference between single-celled organisms and the way a primate interact with its environment yes but I'm not sure why that would indicate any sort of Greater existential value it's not necessarily greater existential value but as we were talking about the value of community in the value of having a group of people that you care about that this is this is a core component of Being Human this is it it's a core component of this understanding mind Channel intelligent interfacing with the universe in a way that no other animals capable of agrees with me I'm saying that I think it's less convinced him and Tim thinks it is

► 02:04:31

okay you're right social package great you know that social fabric is particularly awesome of me and my friends to take their shit I and the simple and effective idea that the reason the human beings are value is because we are more than just our material bodies in there something that is us that is of inestimable value that's religious Concepts and it has a lot of weight now it's the same place and we can build a political conversation that's fine my real argument Sam is Sam and I go down to the bottom of the iceberg that 90% of the way we have the same phone that's about it. Free speech diversity of opinion about I think too too mostly and extend free markets and I think that we we agree on a lot of these fundamental principles he then says that he gets those from Pure reason

► 02:05:21

I have serious questions about whether pure reason necessitates those conclusions he tends to think that those are the only conclusion to reasonable person could come too if you properly apply a reason I don't think that's right what's the mechanism that they are, and I when we were debating Us in San Francisco is it across the stage from me a religious Jew we agree on 95% of our values so how and his answer was going on. I've studied studied Buddhism I study these philosophies and I studied science and I haven't studied a lot of those things we have the same value so why it seems to me a better historical explanation is that we have brought me grow up 10 miles from each other in Los Angeles after three thousand years of common history of judeo Christian Development Dallas with reason in the West location has something to do with us and that location was rooted in commonality of interests in and philosophy so

► 02:06:21

West it's it's there's a weird Nexus and Jordan Peterson debate this Wild Kratts and the truth is I'm closer to Sam and Jordan on this I'm closer to Jordan and sand when it comes to the value of religion and I'm closer to Sam and Jordan when it comes to objective truths and Jordan has you are pregnant as he tends to believe the truth is sort of what is useful tools or next month and my crew is him I'm not sure how he gets to objective truth from a scientific materialistic worldview why is there objective truth as opposed to what you think is what you think being evolutionarily beneficial how do you get from that to it to Universal principle that is objectively true it's it's it's a bit of a job depends on what the concept is right like what are you talking about in terms of Truth is true what makes it true as opposed to just evolutionarily beneficial for us to think so many what evolution does Duke play

► 02:07:21

2 Series thoughts in our mind presumably if your materials that are beneficial to your preservation and promulgation of the species and they're not actually true so it's not the explanation for the prevalence of religion for true but evolutionary biology sort of drives people toward relations you can have group bonds that are Beyond 250 people whenever why does not applied math

► 02:07:45

why is between two how do you know the two into actually equals 4 as opposed to it is evolutionary been evolutionarily beneficial for you to believe that two plus two equals four just can't believe there's an objective truth somewhere out there that I don't know what evolution has to do with that sort of stuff so what do you think is happening that he disagrees with so I think that what is happening is that human beings were placed in an orderly Universe through the processes of biology and have a unique capacity to understand that Universe because we are made in the image of God this is where I think that the religious Viewpoint that I purchased pretty strongly from from Sam's but you should leave in evolution Evolution was a process that was created by God to formulate human beings that you can contribute most everything to God it's not that impossible if if there was some sort of a gram

► 02:08:45

plan would be no regard for if I call the guy to get a rush on this making the evolutionary being you know I want we're going to celebrate the process impossible it would be for Adams running around the universe randomly to end with with human creation that the alternative explanation seemed no no more lesson pause the multiple universes Theory Plaza or the not sure how that's more hassle than God not sure has more testable bit aliens put his hair like that how is any of this why is that more festival or more plausible than the idea that there is a force behind that which we see that has mine well let's let's just break this down slowly

► 02:09:40

there's obviously something that's happening there's obviously something that went from The Big Bang to planet Earth in 2019 with cellular communication and satellite dish is obviously something happened something pretty radical why's it happening is it happening because of random events that sort of coincide with Biology technology and all these things come to fruition to you and I stand across from each other talking on this podcast in front of millions of people

► 02:10:14

is this is this just how things go is things compete constantly try to get better and then in this gigantic ecosystem of all these things competing in trying to get better one super successful organism rises above and continues right and continues and by far passes all these other creatures below it and moves we in our estimation I mean if you if you really believe in evolution you can't think we're done right it's got to be moving toward some better product keeps going until it creates so I think there's a plausible argument for atheism I just don't think that there is a plausible argument for Sam's moral vision of alien meaning that tends to do is it like for example you and I talked a lot on this particular podcast about the value of self-betterment and making decisions and being responsible for those decisions

► 02:11:10

how does that work in an area we don't have free will suggest friends to find out truths about the universe and we're using reason reason reason but I don't know what how to find a reason as opposed to just ate an evolutionarily beneficial firing of the meaning that

► 02:11:36

that's what we are at with balls in a Wandering purpose was through the universe and then he'll talk about making our own meeting or seeking human human Prosperity or a flourishing he likes you very active verbs or is it an activation of man in the universe and I'm not sure how that flows from what about make it evolve from another ball of meat that evolved eventually if you go back far enough from non ball without any without any free will without any capacity to choose

► 02:12:06

I don't know how you build a civilization on that has two different conversations here one is determination or a determinism rather whether or not you have free will or whether or not your life and your actions are being dictated by the pass by your biology by learning experiences by external pressures what is causing this very clear decision that you make is this Free Will are you decide I'm I get my shit together or all the factors around you pushing you and funneling you into this this direction that you it's unavoidable to you right and that you are not a product of Free Will you're just a product of a lot of different factors right or is it both is it that you are the product of your environment in your life experiences and you also have free will and I'm in the latter group I'm in the lot of group I think as well I think we also experienced great benefit for making Positive Choices and then experiencing whatever you meet someone has lost a lot of weight

► 02:13:06

what one thinks they have his fucking tremendous feeling of accomplishment you know when we're good and making good choices and when people decide to get their shit together and make a good choice they were awarded the question is are you doing that because of determinism or you doing that because of free will or you doing that because of a combination of both of those things and can you fuel that Free Will purposely threw like outwardly seeking things that are motivational or things that are educational things that allow you to kind of remap the way you process reality right which can be extremely beneficial and can Aiden you taking steps fourth exercising your free will I think that in the end it right but the end in the end

► 02:14:02

I'm religious and I'm not sure why Sam isn't because he agrees with the same premise he's right he'll he'll talk about self betterment decisions that you can make and then he'll write a full book about why Free Will doesn't exist and I just don't understand how those two things can coexist it's well I think it's a thought experiment first of all things to hold determine if something is a thought experiment cuz there's really no way to determine right so you can tell for sure right I mean like there's just no way to it to act otherwise but I am absolutely act as if I have free will and I'll do it myself I fuck things up I don't say well just determinism an know that doesn't get you in but maybe it's determinism has put me in this position where I'm the kind of guy that gets upset if I fuck them so right I don't know man I don't know but I don't know if you know either that's my take on all these things with their ideology like okay I want to hear it out I want to hear the whole thing

► 02:15:02

you don't want to hear it all I'm not sure if you know I think there's a there's a lot that I don't know but I know there's more possible I agree this is where I think people misunderstand you you have your beliefs but you're not a guy that imposes them on people and I think we need to be way more reasonable in terms of the way we address people's beliefs and I've been guilty of this in the past sure Minneapolis and everyone has but I think it's a core component to a healthy Community is to allow people to have their own beliefs and you know who knows man maybe your beliefs on gay people will adjust and move over time as you get older and moving to a gay neighborhood and I don't know. It's not about Tower in Spanish

► 02:15:54

yeah it's it's it's a difference between understanding people are as as whole people and then saying that I don't like some of the things that they do and simply saying that making me something because I don't like some of the things that you do we can't be friends or I disapprove of you is an entire human being which I think is not true it's a good belief system to have if you straight and then you go look got it locked down. Need to worry about that I got a problem if you were gay God damn it be a pain in the ass she just always wanted everyone saying know if you're a giant homo all right and all you want to do is go to gay disco as part of your ass off that so you enjoy some people like golf okay some people some people like parents they are doing I'm doing just want to fucking get it on there if you want to dress up like the Village People and don't have a fucking party that's why Santa Monica Boulevard such a hotspot

► 02:16:54

I got to put my stamp of approval. Should be a free country it should not be my job to police your personal Behavior Bryant right like I have to approve it on a personal level but I'm a jerk if I want to impose my belief system and your personal Behavior there's no one else minutes and I'm a hypocrite if I continue to raid you about your your opinion on gay folks you are a reasonable person and you do you're very polite. This need that people have for everyone to think the way they think and I understand the need to reinforce your own thoughts and and and

► 02:17:54

are you there men try to figure out a way to debate that the other person's perspective is incorrect in your perspective is correct I understand all these inclinations people have but I think that they can fight that with bigotry right now and I don't think that I don't think you're a bigot I don't agree with you about gay folks but that's one of the marijuana things just I just don't think you have any experience in an identity and being Spa

► 02:18:32

these are human beings I know many gay people who I think are significantly better human beings than religious people that I know

► 02:18:45

it did in a way I don't have a defined religion but in a way I have some pretty rigid ideas that I have in my head about behavior in ethics and morals and how you treat people you care about those are those are like the pretty rigid and I think one of the things that religion does is it allows you to have this sort of ethical framework so if I call you don't what what is a scaffolding like it allows you to develop a more disciplined life and it just shows you this is good in this is bad and it's clear and this is most important in the for the most part it's good for the most part at these are these are good patterns to follow and I think that

► 02:19:34

most certainly serve adopted my own somewhere along the line he's a religious AC at the 80s you're not getting your not being an accurate there's a lot of folks do that we we do develop these sort of principles that we thought were not just free willy nilly just do whatever we want all day long no one does that yeah at it because that kind of tax will become even more inflexible I'm the only reasonable person in the room my reasons are the only ones that matter so it's my recent all the way down making some assumptions and then we can discuss whether those assumptions are worthwhile or not the thing that when it comes with religion in defining whether or not other people's behavior sinful you that's where a lot of

► 02:20:34

start thinking that maybe these ideas are bigoted right but it does involve me

► 02:20:47

a different standard than I hold myself nor am I saying that I never said bright but you know that you have different biological desires and they do you kind of acknowledge that right by the same token I assume that a guy doesn't have the desire to stop a thousand women which most try guys do you know if God has a plan why do you think you could create gay people I mean I think they got crates first of all I don't think that I'm in a position to evaluate God's plan and the Spectrum I mean I am not God sneaks it up on you hey man I know it's going to be fucked up but you're going to just like dudes like forget about women you're going to like dudes. I want you to know that I wish you a Merry Christmas

► 02:21:47

challenge akin to any other challenge that a human being my face in his life that the challenge of being a lot more difficult Challenge and not acting on gay urges I think I can be a part of your life now that doesn't that is deep and meaningful maybe what about what about people saying living there truth I'm living my truth Ben Shapiro I mean crap like that which is fine like love your opinion how you want again I get back to do what you want as long as you're not bothering me living my truth is a different thing that's what I'm living my truth

► 02:22:47

people say living my truth because I disagree with you and your human being I Just Disagree like you can be you you can do what you want and do whatever man how did I become the most loosey-goosey Libertarian lean back guy in the world in the society how's the most uptight person I know how well you know as well as I do that the further you go left do you erase the same sort of zealotry that you do when you go all the way rice is cracked you need these crazy people that are just completely connected to their idea of being correct and they take the most rigid stance on all these issues on the left side or on the right side and it's so goddamn, I agree and that's one of the reasons why it's so disgusting people like

► 02:23:47

the connected me with Richard Spencer like what in the fuck like that is such a disingenuous thing to do you know what they're doing through the trying to get me to react to it and talk about it in a bit more click. Uu if you are locked into that far-left ideology as far left as you can go and it's one of the problems with ideologies that have these extremists is that you believe in a percentage of the things these people say but then they go way too far with it but you're connected with them you're connected with them because you're part of that even though you don't have a similar Notions Steven Pinker. Browbeaten over suggesting that failure to ask questions and give possible answers gives Credence to the alt right there that if you do a so he did a whole speech where he said was in there lots of conversations about IQ and race and they all right love these conversations because people are inherently

► 02:24:47

unfit and white floor more fit and all that kind of stuff and he says they're great ways to explain how much by que is is cultural how much can we change how much is Jeanette how much that actually matters in terms of real life outcomes we can do all those things when you say don't ask a question on the question then you make people Google and the only thing that they will Google and find our answers that are given by people who are actually all right if you got ripped as all right for this allow people to push into all right answers by failing to give them proper responses or by throwing out the window and then people like while you're all right now because you're saying that the people should be able to ask questions looks almost like it's just that's not how religion supposed to work a reason is supposed to work that's not how any of this is supposed to work and there's also when when you're investigating anyting any measurable

► 02:25:47

what do when you find a number whatever it is like these people like Asian folks are better at mathematics European folks are better at this and like what is the what's the reason for that what's what's find out is it cultural is it Biologicals it something can we learn about human beings involved in adaptive why are Nigerians so smart like there's so many Nigerians it come to this country they thrived a thriving business they're extremely motivated they're extremely disciplined it's like a it's like almost like Korean folks why do Korean food like why are they so hard-working why are they strived and obviously these are Big generalizations but what is it about aliens what would make some wear gold chains and love mafia movies like what is it those are my people that go with the with the fuck why they all talk like that like what is that what causes of any sort of ethnic group to turn out the way they turned out what why are so many European Jews Nobel Prize winners

► 02:26:47

measurable on how we live our lives matter is this is this a result of discrimination or is this a result of something else is it true that when you group any group of people together racial are not racially there will be disparities between those two groups of people that you just threw statistically like but not asking those questions and then saying shut down the question what that actually does that leads people to only get the answers to the questions from the people who don't know what they're talkin in many cases and we're getting convenient easy and sell flattering answers about the nature of of themselves as it being used by racist to reinforce their position you find out your race right not the Nobel Prize winners it go to white supremacist compound you're not looking at a bunch of people for curing cancer and these people piss me off and then this is now

► 02:27:47

disingenuous media that's being less and less taken seriously taking less and less seriously it's it seems to me that that Trend which is a common Trend that's existed for the last few years of these clickbaity bulshit articles and Miss labeling people it's going to go away because your perspective is not going to be appreciated it's not going to be respected if you if you're obviously making disingenuous statements like that and I think we're in this weird position where it's very difficult to find real journalism and real objective takes on things that aren't flavored by their ideology and everybody's trying to keep everybody and they feel like it's their obligation they feel is many people that write things that feel like it's their obligation to change your perspective on National subjects and things that are important to us that she's not their obligation just report was going on but also their obligation to flavor things in a way that will make one side look favorable to the other

► 02:28:47

media is that objective journalism is a thing so I'm conservative going to work and guess what the video when the Mueller report came out and it look like somebody got killed if you guys believed in me where everybody was in man he's going to go get drunk this guy is methodical he's precise kitties getting voted out everything votive candles with his face on them but I guess it now to cover up my what wait a minute so many people were so convincing there was so many people that were making statements that in retrospect are probably like you could probably

► 02:29:48

I mean I want to say about a meticulous person but if I was a guy like Donald Trump out at yeah there's so many people to Sue and it was amazing that I remember I was on Bill Maher show and you were supposed to talk about Free Speech stuff in like 5 minutes before I need to talk about Russia is pretty sure Kevin talks about Nazi thought comes in with clipboard and he's talking about Trump Russia collusion and I said what will make a decision as to whether Trump Russia collusion was a thing you don't you don't believe it was a thing I see some attempts of people trying to get information I don't see evidence of like actual legal collusion and why don't we just wait like you guys keep wanting Mueller to give it like let's just wait on it and Mark would not believe

► 02:30:48

and this is my perspective right it was like it was like talking to him why should why should be perspective I'm waiting for more evidence be talking to anyone when it is obviously evidence is not out why why why is that in anyway controversial did well during to me it's because people have this need to let everyone know that they're on the right side and they want you to know that they do believe in the collusion if you disagree with that for whatever reason you must either be a right-wing person a trump supporter someone is it was in denial someone doesn't look at the evidence and you're part of the problem but the real problem was jumping to conclusions they're obviously seem to be some attempts there's there's obviously some fuckry with that I R A company that did that research agency that is responsible for millions of interactions with people online with a pretended to be right difference of the trolls the caused conflict conflict in regards to political opinion and that's all real it was

► 02:31:48

coordinated effort to try to change people's opinions but how much that have to do with Donald Trump how much did he ask for well coordinated campaign it was it was it was a shitshow but but when the mask comes off at night they called where they put together a point-by-point plan on how they're going to swing this particular Precinct in real life in rural Michigan what if you can show me that you see any here's a good rule of thumb for Paula text attribute everything to stupidity unless you can prove malice the real problem in this is something that is very similar to what we were talking about earlier when you say something and you say it over and over and over again and you say it with such conviction and it becomes

► 02:32:48

giant part of your news narrative and then that's something turns out to be horseshit yep you just massively Empower Trump that's that's exactly right because I think he applied it to broadly I think they will never said that piece of news that can take names and sometimes yes and sometimes no but now that you just blew a two-year narrative or he was clearly in Boonton pocket how many people you think it'll listen to the nuanced view of fake news now and how many people do you think are going to actually believe Trump when he says that a bad piece of news is legitimately a fake piece of news spectacular Manner and it blew that they blew this one in spectacular fashion people are still hanging in there while they had to do this is true for so many people right now all you have to do is not be crazy just stop it I was talking about the possibility that Trump has been a Russian asset since like 1987 or some shit what's up

► 02:33:48

like I don't know you're using the power of the institution you used to run to spread this nonsense and you got that from John Brennan you got it from James Clapper these are all former heads of the intelligence agencies agencies need to be wildly car back if these were the heads of them may have like the head of the intelligence agencies are using their platform to Proclaim that they have inside information about Trump that turned out to be utter nonsense I'm not sure these people should have that much power do you like saying or is he saying he doesn't know he didn't say I don't know he was saying like I have basically I expect that mother is going to indict as a former professional I expect that there's a lot of that it was ugly Adam Schiff until somebody doing the same thing it's crazy now cuz like what are they do now how do they rebound from this at this is so there's that you let you say once this is something you said for 2 years right you seen the compilation video yet they put a beat behind it and if you seen it

► 02:34:48

these compilations of people saying possible collusion possible collusion with the Russians possible Russian collusion illusion it's in a major way you didn't have to go with that like in Trader what looks like it's no way out or something but Kevin Costner ever beaten Hillary want to ask you one more question what do you think about this Chelsea Manning situation cuz I I don't know exact would happen other than she's in contempt of court and so they've got her in solitary confinement now this is about testifying against WikiLeaks

► 02:35:44

Chelsea Manning who okay so here's where I get Bradley know me as well as we're talking about when he committed his crime formerly known as Bradley if we're talking about a human being who's currently in jail that is a male who is currently known as Chelsea Chelsea Manning is a refused to hand over information that he was legally bound to Hanover about Wikileaks and now there were complaints being held in solitary that's not true apparently he's being mistreated I do find it weird that the same people who are complaining about Donald Trump coordinating with Wikileaks are very upset about Chelsea Manning going to jail for coordinating with Wikileaks you need to pick one of the other

► 02:36:44

it's not bad what is WikiLeaks it's only depend upon whether or not they're supporting the narrative that you want to be on the right words like Julian Assange is the worst and then 2016 happen to like Julian Assange now there is a person I can really talk to Julian Assange Wikileaks information suggests a Russian front group

► 02:37:11

and take make of that what you will end of story do you think that they became a Russian front group to try to stay operative and stay safe because they were obviously being attacked by the United States government and in danger of being shut down and then stick it mean he's been doing that since 2012 yeah man I hope that these got some video games or something in there he's been in there for like 7 years now I can't go outside Pamela Anderson visit every now and then he's fucked man I mean it's it's a terrible place to be and I don't know if it's better than prison cuz it's like the stress of him never knowing when they're going to come knock down the door and pull him out of there I was like how well is that guy sleep at seven years in that Embassy

► 02:38:10

soldiers in lines of a combat so they didn't read any of the names Wikileaks just released it they did a bad thing I don't know if that's accurate cuz I would I just don't know if that that is I don't know I don't have the information from me do you want to check now I'll take too much time have to Google this one but so when one of the things I was thinking when Trump got in office while this drain that swamp shit I would like one of Trump would be a wikileak supporter I wonder if Trump would be happy to help them yeah sure or even in Snowden as well just wondering about that

► 02:39:10

I like him who's always anti deep State and talking about the these men he's extremely critical about the intelligence, was to

► 02:39:28

listen I know you got to get out of here so it's just wrap this up tell people that your book of short form philosophical history of the West from Sinai through Greece and talking about all the major enlightenment philosophers some of the things we talked about on the show are in the book it's number one bestseller on the New York Times nonfiction list at least at the moment so also Ben Shapiro show you can get the Ben Shapiro show on iTunes and get it on YouTube your Sunday review which I did once

► 02:40:15

thank you everyone for tuning into the program and thank you to our sponsors thank you to Casper mattresses ladies and gentlemen you can get $100 towards select mattresses by visiting casper.com Rogan and using the promo code Rogan at checkout that's casper.com Rogan and promo code Rogan for $100 towards select mattresses terms and conditions apply we are also brought to you by the cash app the motherfuking turn up the number one finance app in the app store the easiest way for you to send and receive money and buy and sell Bitcoin and on top of that it comes with the cash card download the cash app for the App Store or the Google Play Market order your cash card today and when you download the cash app enter the referral code Joe Rogan all one word $5 would go to you that is 5

► 02:41:15

$3 and Betty get $5 to go to support our good friend Justin Brands fight for the Forgotten charity she's helping to build Wells for the pygmies in the Congo thank you also to Traeger Grills a grill I'm cooking on it tonight how about that yes I fucking love their grills they're really fantastic they're so good at maintaining temperature and getting up to temperature quickly and now with their new D2 direct drive drivetrain it's their even better and their applications fantastic again I use them all the time I've been cooking on these things the long before they were sponsor go to traegergrills.com Joe to check out the new grills or find a local dealer at traegergrills.com Joe thank you everyone appreciate you all much love by by