#1347 - Neil deGrasse Tyson

Sep 5, 2019

Neil deGrasse Tyson is an astrophysicist, cosmologist, author, and science communicator.

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there's no podcasts out there that's anything like it and you subscribe and listen to new episodes of stand up with Krista Stefano every Thursday wherever you listen to your podcasts my guest today is a good friend a brilliant man and one of the I guess probably the most famous astrophysicist in the known universe his name is Neil deGrasse Tyson The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day

hello yo what's going on man yeah good to see you thanks thanks I feel a little overdressed sorry about you look good you know look at that a bit of Starry Night there yeah you're really into that huh oh yeah I got I guess is that yes what's on your phone so you remembered yes yeah yeah it's on the phone sorry night what you don't like about Starry Night it's not what Van Gogh saw that night it's what he felt how do you know what he felt because this is not an representation of reality and anything that deviates from reality is reality that has filtered through your senses and I think art at its highest is exactly that if this was an exact depiction of reality it would be a photograph and I don't need the artist hmm okay so even photographs that take you to a slightly other kind of Dimension as you gaze upon them it's more than what was actually going on at the time and that's that's art taken to the

craft of Photography that's why you like it that's why it's one of the reasons why plus I think it was the very first

painting where it's title is the background

think about that this could have been called you know in the full painting obviously this is a typical yeah so there's a town there there's a cypress tree there's a church steeple it could have been called cypress tree could have been called Sleepy Village it could have been called Rolling Hills but no it's called starry night and everything in front of it everything in front of it is just in the way and how often do you paint something where the title is the background that that's my point and in this particular case the background is the universe and soap so for me this was a pivot point in art and it's 1889 which is recent given the history of paintings and you know the go all the way back so yeah there it is that your favorite painting ever I have to say you have to be you have a vest and a phone call it's not what are you doing and I have four or five ties that have this painting on them

different ways yeah so what would you put them all in I'm all-in what's interesting is that the town is what would have you seen Starry Night in bacon somebody did look at dig it up on the screen it takes somebody did it in bacon it's just crazy how weird yes yeah how weird go back to the original one please what's interesting about the original one is that the town is realistically depicted the trees are recognizable as trees if you ever saw a sky that looked like that the end would be here yeah exactly placenta whirling is not wind and it's not clouds because it was if it was clouds you wouldn't see the stars right let's go it's how he felt that's all I can tell you by the way that's is a real evening so that's sorry it's not even the it's early morning the crescent moon when it's that orientation means this is Before Sunrise and that white object lower on the horizon that sort of glowy that's very likely Venus and that

us to trace what's over what set of weeks this painting was actually painted so it's kind of like forensic astronomy has anyone done an analysis of like where he must have been yeah it's well-known yeah he was he was in a real place and so that really pull this out of his ass right I mean it was he painted what he saw folded into what he felt yeah heavy that's how art should be I think yeah otherwise what do you need artists for

make cool shit the cool stuff is something that they felt and it came out of them yeah they feel stuff they artists feel feel the the natural world in ways different from the rest of us

and that's why they're artists do they or do they just express it with all sorry yes they not only yes we all can feel it but to be able to express it that that's a whole other Talent right just to Camp you know what I think about often why do you why do we all know who Paul Revere is all right we all we is a household name yet is there any other War ever fought in the history of the world where a household name is the name of the person who told other people the enemy was coming

we can mention his name but we can't list the generals that all fought in that war why it's because a poem was written about him and he had this mundane job let me tell people the enemy is coming and so the artists in this case the poet

elevated the mundane to something that forces you to to reckon it with your understanding of this world what Joyce Joyce Kilmer his most famous poem it's about a tree dogs piss on trees you drive by trees you don't even know they're there yet a poem about a tree I'll never see something as lovely as a tree oh my gosh this so the art forces you to pause and just reflect on things that you took for granted things that became ordinary in your life and they were elevated to to they get beatified by the talents of artists that's the word oh beatiful you never know we had a fight yeah I'm do using it Loosely it's the intermediate step between being an ordinary person and being a saint

beatification of someone in the Catholic church I would have thought it's making something more beautiful oh babe okay I don't it could have I'm gonna risk be at bu yeah could it could come from that but to be it be beatified is the first steps on route to sainthood yeah that's if I remember the word correctly hair goes oh you got it pulled it up the definition to make supremely happy Christianity declare to have attained blessedness of heaven and authorize the title blessed and limited public religious honor she was beatified six years after her death so I think you can't become a saint unless you previously been beatified I think that's the rule but I'm looking at the number one definition there to make supremely happy so that's a nest interesting yeah that that yeah that moved ahead of a definition of beautify yeah so we got to be out of fight with the verb was up there you had on the screen Roman Catholic Church he beatified Juan Diego Indian

have a vision of the Virgin Mary synonyms canonize sanctify holla consecrate so I think if you take something ordinary and you subjected to the interpretation of an artist it can be beatified and elevated on a level where it becomes a household recognition of its importance in this world hmm so okay my brother's an artist my brother's an artist so I'm kind of art Fine Art but also paints and he teaches history of art so I I've had this sort of baptism my whole life being exposed to him I'm the you know the Sip The Sibling scientist but the have an artist in the family I think everyone should have an artist in the family I've got an uncle and of course the the whole steam movement science technology engineering and math the artist got in and say wait I'm so stem the stem movement kaito is human they want to throw in the a to get art as part of that movement science technology engineering art and math changing from stem to steam the steam so you get full steam ahead Steam

better word in that well they're both good words for what they need but that just sounds like a bunch of awesome stuff like it does and at yeah I'm not throwing comedy and building houses you know it seems like you're getting very it's like the LBGTQ a I like things get really squirrelly when you start adding more letters yeah you can add letters but if it doesn't spell anything then the memorization has to kick in but steam you don't have to memorize that it's already there for you so it's cleverly conceived I think it the abbreviation was it's tacit recognition that these are elements in society that advanced civilization and and grow the economy actually so in fact this hardly any growth economy in the world that isn't growing because it has been for not having been touched by science or technology everything just think about it

so if you're around running at you don't have them on your show but if you want around saying I don't like science science is bad science is evil okay well then you will die in poverty if you elect officials who believe that as well well the fuck thinks that science is bad in 2019 and how did they express this they express it through sighs okay so you know I'm saying like are they saying it online I have a book coming out in a month called letters from an astrophysicist okay it's not it's not out yet I've got it it's not how did you get a copy but I got don't even have my copy yet okay what I'm saying in there there's a whole chapter on just angry people who don't like anything including science and one of them it's a riff he just said I hate to admit signs it and that science would bring some of the worst things that's ever happened to humanity and pollution and this goes on and on and on and on and on and so I reply is Letters from an astrophysics and I reply as

only in is rationally as is possible when you get attacked that way but what I'm saying is not everyone Embraces everything that science does and some will cherry pick it you have the science deniers for a global warming of science deniers with vaccines if sites and Aires with GMOs yet there's there's all manner of science denying going on in modern society and you know we in a free Society what you going to do right the people can think what they want but if the if thinking what they want influences policy which then affects everybody then your science denial has consequences to the economic health of the nation and by the way it's not only economics it's your the economic health is your physical health because medicine flows through advances in science as well as our security well there's people that deny some aspects of science while conveniently using other that's where it gets weird right you're driving a car that's relying on

GPS using a phone to complain about the global-warming hooks you know you're correct one of my more more sort of popular tweets was you remember when they have the photo of the black hole From A Distant Galaxy and it was Banner headlines maybe a year ago less than a year ago Banner headlines and first photo ever be of a black hole and it was an astounding engineering achievement to accomplish that it was multiple telescopes all around the world pulling the data to get it right and it was one of the greatest collaborative efforts we've ever undertaken in my field of astrophysics okay and everybody was loving the results so all I tweeted was scientist report first photo of a black hole

public scientists report humans are warming the Earth

oh no you brought it up okay scientist we produce the first-ever image of a supermassive black hole 55 million light years away the response scientist we've concluded the humans or catastrophically warming the Earth response that conflicts with what I want to be true so it must be false well that is the cherry picking of science it is a cherry picking assignments but the global warming thing is very much connected to a certain type of ideology if the certain type of person thinks of themselves matter to me No Nonsense purse what I'm saying what yes it does matter what I'm what I'm trying to say is that is a demographic that has cherry-picked science to deny human-caused global warming there are other demographics demographics that have cherry-picked other science to deny other things and it's not all located in one political Spectrum in one political Branch right so you tend to find liberal folk complaining that the conservatives who have embraced

no the good old global warming platform are denying science and then each science on their side and many of those same people are rubbing crystals together to be healed by the crystal energy or they're denying vaccines thinking that there's somehow bad for you and so so all of this requires some or total rejection of mainstream science and we're living in that world now and I don't know I don't think it'll stop the progress of civilization but it can certainly slow it down and occasionally stall it well that is certainly a problem but how big of a problem is it like how many people are really in denial of Science in 2019 and it's got to be for me in every country that's not what matters what matters is in a free country that you elect officials who are not official yes you elect people who are scientifically literate yeah they don't have to be scientists or if they're not scientifically literate they should be

self aware of that and then listen to people who are right so do you think what they're doing now is they're they're doing what their constituents would like them to do that's why I don't be politicians over the head ever I don't do that we're Republic where democracy whatever they believe if they think the Earth is 6,000 years old and they got elected it's because the people elected them believe they're sitting there with is 6,000 years old or because they're willing to let that one go because they believe in their pocket possibly that's a good point because you have a portfolio of thoughts and beliefs or because he's such a profound Christian I mean he's so profoundly Christian that he's just want any of literal definition who are connected to science that don't including the pope by the way you know can you get more Christian than the pope all right he believes in science now this new pope is pretty interesting if you read if you read his encyclical from a couple of years ago it's it's it's a scientifically literate

doc document yeah and know this okay so it's not he's still religious right so Jesus still rose from the dead and there is still Miracles and all the rest of that in the New Testament so he's not in denial of that but given that he is saying oh my gosh here's something we the religious community and scientists can partner behind and that is we want to save life on Earth and so we have to be better Shepherds of what is going on on this Earth and one of them is we don't want to flood low-lying countries in the South Pacific where the average sea level is 10 feet above sea level or whatever it is you're going to lose these countries if you keep melting our our our the at the ice caps because that would include a North and then we'll land in the north so the glacier ice that's land-based ice right because any ice that's in the water floating that can melt and it's not going to change the water level so it's why you can do this experiment is really cool fill up your glass for some few cubes of ice in a glass

water fill the glass up as much as you possibly can without spilling it and the ice is bobbing above that level okay because ice is about 10% buoyant on that about 10% of an ice cube will be lifted above this is this is a this is the iceberg equation right all right that's the tip of the iceberg well you see the 10% above and 90% is not visible to you this is by the way I don't want to get the too many off ramps here but that's one of the one of the things that they did right in Titanic okay if you look at the earliest Titanic movie that was in black and white they see this huge Iceberg on the horizon and then it can they can't swear away from it because it oh my gosh it doesn't have no no the iceberg that cuts the bottom of your boat is a little bit of ice sticking out above the water because 90% of it is underwater and that's where the damage occurs and in the James Cameron Titanic the iceberg that they hit above water was looks like a little chunk of ice it all that couldn't hurt anything all the damages under work anyhow

back to this so do this experiment and then let the glass sit there and let the ice melt and the water level will stay the same

because when ice melts it gets takes up lower volume than it was when it became ice hmm and that's why pipes break I thought pipes break just because the water expands yeah I just described that in the opposite direction well so because as it freezes it but didn't know it gets larger that's what expansion means what kind of what's with your vocabulary here right now but I'm saying like don't worry so so your ice company City temperature the Ice Cube is sitting 10% above the water level and it melts and becomes water the water takes up 90 percent of the volume of the ice right so that just melt back into the water and it doesn't overflow even though it was sticking above the waterline when you had the glass so now let's do the opposite okay there's water in the pipes how can I tell you something that might blow your mind no

sure that allowed I don't know what how many times did your mind you at least once a day yeah at least we need your mind blown okay here's how it works okay so let's put water in the pipes okay and then the temperature drops the pipes have a certain strength right copper pipes you know they're rigid I grew up around breaking pipes okay so we'll have to use its so the waters in there and now the temperature begins to drop okay the water wants to turn to ice but it can't because the pipe is containing it so just sits there okay at 32 degrees as water even though the temperature outside is dropping below 32 degrees okay and it still sits there gets the 30° 29 the pipe is squeezing the attempt of this water to become

ice having active squeezing it prevents the temperature from dropping okay and you as the temperature drops depending on how strong the pipe is and and the temperature gradient across it as the outside temperature continue to gets to now 25 degrees the pipe is still holding onto the liquid water that and it's still 32 degrees inside there and it holds onto and it's keeps happening it keeps happening you get a point where the pipe can no longer contain the water and the water freezes spontaneously

it just goes right down to that temperature and the pipe is helpless in the face of this so the point is the stronger the pipe is the lower the temperature has to be outside for the freezing water to break it so theoretically if you had a pipe that was made of a stronger material than copper you can get even lower than you get an even lower temperatures how low can you get because when things freeze they have to expand so what no only when water freezes why does water expands when it's a it's a remarkable fact about water that is shared by very few other ingredients most things when they cool they shrink as all men know oh so so so most most materials because things cooler the vibrating molecules slow down and they take up less space water is the opposite of that as it passes down through so so I'm going to describe to an extraordinary fact about water and why we're alive today okay so watch that has to take a lake

that has fish in it okay temperature drops outside and the lake slowly begins to get cooler because it is a tenth time lag between the air temperature and the waters that's why the first freeze the the lake is still there it's got to be called longer I so what happens the water gets cold on the surface okay and

it begins to okay what is called on a surface and it begins to shrink so that waterfall Stitch shrink that makes it denser it falls to the bottom fine it does that down to about 4 degrees Celsius as it goes from 4 degrees Celsius to 0 degrees Celsius the freezing point it begins to expand

and become less dense than the water so now as the water wants to actually freeze it stays on top when it does freeze you freeze the top surface of the lake well how about the water below it it's insulated from the dropping air temperature and the fish don't die

imagine if ice were denser than water what would happen you'd freeze the top layer it would sink the bottom is frozen fries the next layer it sinks and fish would be systematically forced to swim in shallower and shallower Waters until they were all freeze-dried on the top surface of the lake and all fishes would be dead every winter I think it's very like think it's fish what Lane you suppose say fishes fishes is it is a double plural you can do that yeah you know her dish would be dead you know like all dear would you say I'll dears well because you generally is one if you had multiple kinds of dire yeah oh so if you had likes it could yeah but but but it's rare that they're all in the same place you only have one kind of deal with me but that the ocean has many kind of fish in the same place oh yeah that's interesting so you would say fishes fishes you're talking about it's a double for its different kinds of plural fish yeah double blow my mind you didn't know you didn't know that again no no no I didn't know I never thought of it that way the many fishes in the oh yeah yes

sorry this is in the sea yeah so multiple plurals of different kinds of things to get where ocean water freezes because that's what our boys soccer saltwater do you have the reef fishes up there is a nominee that happen where there was two or too little oxygen in the water and somehow the frozen fish got pushed out and a wall of ice the South Dakota where whoa so there's too little oxygen I don't know if I can explain that in there if you look at the if you look at the Green in the water most likely its algae so that happens with certain lakes that get polluted with certain types of algae kill the lake but by doing that just like and well you get it in the ocean to get these zones but I don't see how you get frozen fish though that's incredible but we should also stop go back up yeah scroll down so you could read it for fish Frozen a wall of ice and South Dakota's Lake and he's National Wildlife Refuge that's incredible man is that a video Jamie yeah I guess just a picture though that's what I don't know how to approach because they can just swim to where it's not frozen so I'd have to say I did

more homework on that one to see what caused that wow so my point is because of this property of water how weird that ice floats it insulates the bottom layers of the lake and fish can survive over the winter that's because of his work to write insulates you can inside you get a like a nice yeah sure yeah yeah I mean if you put a barrier between you and the changing elements outside that basically an insulating layer have you ever ice fishing no I never never it's a good way to get away from the wife person in New York City people go ice fishing I'm sure and since what do women go ice fishing to get away from their husband they do yeah okay like why do people golf you know ice fishing is particularly weird because you have to continually scoop out the ice and maybe even drill again right cooked so that works because frozen water is less dense than on Frozen water and it's one of the rare ingredients for which that so and it's likely there would be no life on land

it anywhere on Earth if that were the case if the opposite of that were the case so what is a very special ingredient to life on Earth it's cited by Many religious folks is saying see Earth is sacred for these it's in the list of special ingredients for what make earth habitable for life that that is a really strange thing though that if you can contain it somehow and incredibly strong pipe yes but it won't freeze yes it went first what is the temperature variant though guy like is there a number well that's why doesn't matter my pipes don't freeze when it Just Hits 30 degrees outside that's not when you hear it it freezes when it gets really low when you crack yeah then it'll just it'll break the copper like it's paper now here it like it's like it's not now

on the flip side of that try this at home take an ice cube that's like at 30 degrees okay how would you measure that pull out an ice cube and just because they'll be at near zero fahrenheit if you if you have a good freezer just pull out and leave it on the counter put it on a wooden cutting board okay and just let it sit there for like 10 minutes and it's temperature will come up they'll be a point where it hasn't melted yet but you can take it and squeeze the Ice Cube and you can force it to melt by squeezing it because you're forcing it into a smaller volume that it currently contains and the only way you can accomplish that is if the ice turns to water then it will occupy a smaller volume so the active squeezing ice can actually melt it so if you had some sort of a pipe that could physically construct like something that had threads a tent that could wind down to a smaller size you can stick a cylinder of ice in it and you can slowly crank it down yes yes it would melt yes you

melt if you had some machine that squeezed I see ya and the colder the ice is the hardest the more you hard it would be for you to squeeze it and to accomplish that so it's sort of fun with ice if I can what else you can do this is a harder experiment to do if you take us a mesh like a screen mesh that's to be sort of wider openings than a screen door would so what would this be like a fence like a chain link fence and behold it horizontally and get a big block of ice and just place it on top a block of ice is heavy what will happen is the ice the weight of the ice will melt the ice in the contact points of the chain itself because it's feeling that pressure to squeezed into a smaller volume but by the time it melt the ice has now passed through the grate and it will refreeze on the other side so you can actually pass a block of ice through a chain-link fence

just by pushing it yeah it's pretty it's pretty cool it's a slow experiment but it's wrong

I mean depends on the temperature the I can hide and how and how much it weighs right because the pressure is what this is why this is why you can I skate why can you skate on ice because the edge of the blade is very high pressure on the ice and its melting a bead of water you actually gliding on water when you're skating you're not skating on slippery ice really yes I thought you were just cutting the ice with the blade well so the blade have you ever seen a sharpened blade it's not just flat there's actually a concave cross section to it so each Edge the left Edge in the right Edge is is basically a knife edge mmm okay not quite as sharp as a knife but it's you can feel how it's sharp so that when you lean on that edge either your inner Edge or outer edge your entire body weight is being held up on this on a very narrow surface area of the blade so the pressure is Extreme it's like you know thousand pounds per square inch you don't weigh a

pounds but you're not skating on a square inch right so you you do the math on that and what you can have is you will skate and you're actually what makes it so slippery on ice skates is because you're moving on a bead of water that freezes right behind you as you go past it dude

yeah so it's possible for ice to be so cold you can't really skate on it because even that pressure is not enough to melt it how cold it have to be that I last I did a calculation was really cold like tens of degrees below zero how does dry ice work oh it's just Frozen carbon dioxide that's all so here's the difference here's a difference you have a block of Frozen H2O and a block of Frozen CO2 so there they are it turns out the air pressure on Earth is high enough at sea level is high enough to allow the ice to melt and sustain a liquid state

okay let's CO2 under air pressure normal air pressure it wants to melt but it can't sustain a liquid and it goes straight to gas

if we had much higher air pressure you could you could have CO2 melt and have liquid CO2

so now Watch What Happens so so kind of blow your mind again this is just this is really good stuff okay it's good like physical chemistry so here you go so watch it happens so what happens if I reduce the air pressure okay well the transition from Ice to water is still the same it's not affected but the boiling point is affected as you know cooking times have to be adjusted on mountain tops because when you boil water is not 212 degrees depending on the height of the mountain there's less air pressing down that that's preventing it from boiling okay the boiling point is not some absolute fact about the water it has to do with what the air pressure is sitting above it you have extremely high air pressure water has to go too much higher temperature before it boils so our so the boiling point of water this reported in all textbooks is at sea level at one atmospheric pressure

that's how you get 212 degrees if you start reducing the atmospheric pressure it's 210 degrees 205 degrees 200 degrees hundred ninety degrees hundred eighty degrees $180 oh yes and so that's not as hot as 212° she got to cook the food longer all cooking times are increased for this reason so now watch I'm not done with you uh let's keep reducing the air pressure okay theoretical or like possible on Earth no no like Himalayas yeah but or take it up you can Ascend in some kind of copter or some kind of device okay our air balloon or whatever but I'm saying you can do this experiment in a laboratory okay okay you keep reducing the air pressure boiling point keeps dropping it's hard in 70 degrees hundred fifty a hundred twenty a hundred degrees Fahrenheit 80 degrees Fahrenheit

50 degrees Fahrenheit 40 degrees Fahrenheit

32 degrees Fahrenheit

holy shit what happens the ice melts and becomes water the water evaporates and become Steam and all of that's happening at 32 degrees there is an atmospheric pressure for which water ice and steam coexist and it's called the triple point of water and all ingredients have a triple point

wow what is the a Mars mission Mars is very close to the triple point of water so you can have you can have a simultaneous bath in certain regions of Mars a simultaneous bath because the air pressure so low is like one one-hundredth earth's air pressure it's very very low so you know a place where a pot of water ice cubes and steam are coming out all at once it's at the triple point so so so here's the lesson here is we live life in our world at one atmospheric pressure at one room temperature atmospheric pressure and we Define what is normal based on that life experience based on how how our senses interact with that environment but the actual universe

is far freakier than what we that what our senses are exposed our five senses are exposed to on Earth

what did you think about Elon musk's idea about nuking the poles of Mars in order to make it warmer yeah so some of these are kind of pie in the sky ideas right but let's let's get to what he's trying to get at what you want to do is you want to introduce warmth you want to block the ozone the you want to block the ultraviolet so that you can protect organic life alright so we have an ozone layer it's the three oxygen atoms 03 and oxygen ozone likes ultraviolet light so ultraviolet light comes from the sun it gets eaten by ozone gets eaten and when you do that the ultraviolet light doesn't make it to Earth surface so even though they sell where wears sunscreen and sunblock 45 yes that's for the 1% of the ultraviolet to gets through the atmosphere if you're above the atmosphere you are fried so the because ultraviolet

is highly hostile to organic molecules and what we're made of as life so you want to protect you want to give life a chance so you want to not only heat Mars you want to find a way to block the ultraviolet light coming from the Sun so you need some mechanism if not ozone where it just live underground for example okay and so so I don't think we should think of the idea as a literal thing but just it's a general principle of what you want to accomplish on Mars in doing so you want to warm it you want to protect what could be the future of biochemistry and then you see it and you and then you wait you want to wait too long you want it so to speed it up if you could and then you terraform Mars SpaceX has I visited him a couple of times he's he's got a mug you can buy there then it has Mars on it okay and then you put hot liquid in it and Mars turns to a narrable

blue green marble that's all so yes very good and it doesn't tell you that when you so I got a Mars mug you know and you show it off and oh my gosh what did that happen is an earth mug but it doesn't look like Earth there's a lot of people that go on special teams so we think there's a lot of water that was once on Mars which is a certainty and we think it's just sitting Below in a permafrost so you wouldn't have to bring water to Mars by the way in the really distant future you can just redirect a comment and get all the water you need but how far distance that the comments everywhere dude we're in a shooting gallery yeah that's not what I asked oh how far away do you think it is before we could redirect far away in time yes okay sorry

we know how to do it but there's no real incentive so there's no engineering funded engineering plan to do it but we don't have to do it on paper we know how to do it in a conceivable way oh yeah so they're so first of all it happens with or without us because we are in the shooting path of countless thousands of asteroids and comets so what you would do is you'd find one that's headed close to us anyway in the seventh orbit down the line or the hundredth orbit down the line and then you lie deflect it in such a way that it would then collide with Mars or even Earth if you wanted if we're if needed some more fresh water yeah I heard that there's a possibility they State the problem is if something really big that would fill Lakes worth of it that collided with Earth that would just be bad for life on Earth because it's a spontaneous deposit of energy that can change the climate and do what you want to do that on a planet that you're trying to terraform isn't that the speculation

water got here in the first place so if the jury still out on that there's their tags in the oceans in the water molecule that tell you that the water must have come from more than one source so that's what's confusing things we want to be a simple thing at all came by comets or it all came from inside the earth who volcanoes volcanoes emit

lakes and historically lakes and oceans worth of water just out of there out of their calderas so so the problem is what as we say in science overdetermined this plenty of comments to have delivered all the water there's plenty of water that could have come out of out of volcanoes to give us all the so but in the oceans it's clearly a mixture and so the final word is still out on that what do you think about what's going on Hawaii now with the protesting of the building of this largest and latest Telescope yes the the TMT Thirty meter telescope which would be the largest ever by far of any kind of telescope the history of astronomy is one where bigger telescopes become bigger buckets to collect light that's the only telescopes today are the same as telescopes when they were invented they're just bigger right the principle behind them is bigger because what they're doing is simple all you're trying to do is get as much light as possible and

we're like you get the dimmer is the object you can detect and the farther away is the object you can see and so for every generation of new large telescopes that have been built it is it has increased and deepened our understanding of our place in the universe so that's just the that's the background the proposal is for a 30-meter telescope largest-ever on the big island of Hawaii and Monica where there are other telescopes there another that's where the cactus right yeah I think sci-fi it's with a cactus I think they they cited it in a place that sort of tucked behind most sight lines to it but that's not so much what's important here it's that the native Hawaiians from what I've read view the mountain as a sacred place and so to put a telescope yet another telescope there becomes sort of invasion of sacred land

and so so yeah it's it's a there's a standoff last I looked I mean people protesting in the streets and there's some native Hawaiians who Embrace this because it means jobs high quality jobs engineering jobs we got to build it got to maintain it there's an entire supportive infrastructure for that that means jobs and it's done in collaboration with the University of Hawaii and the all the other telescopes are partnered with the University of Hawaii where people are educated there and so so at the end of the day you have to ask well how are you going to make decisions going forward are you make them democratically then you take a vote or you do you want the natives to to be the deciders of their own fate and is that Democratic okay so the natives vote okay or is it the few people who are protesting do they win the day I mean it's complicated and it's very

Barry there's a lot of nuanced issues going on there there's there's a branch of thinking that the United States government and and normal Municipal leaders have no authority over it there's some who claim that this is native Hawaiian property that does not belong to any Municipal entity of the US government so therefore even state representatives have no say right so there's a lot going on there okay but if I were to weigh in this is how I would do so okay I would say first

I think what should happen is

I don't know if they even have if the infrastructure I don't know how the system is set up but if they could set it up this way if the mountain is viewed as Sacred by the natives

the native should have entire say of what happens to the mountain okay that's how I think that should be so now what you want to make sure is that whatever decision gets made and voted upon by the natives that is fully informed you are you don't want to vote being misinformed or under-informed in any election let alone whether you're voting for a telescope on your sacred Mountain okay otherwise you're voting out of nowhere right yeah unit you're influencing your future based on partial information and decisions based on partial information are bad decisions no matter what okay so I would say hold a vote with the natives and make sure everybody's fully informed and here's a bit of information I just want to add to the information okay you know what we do as astrophysicists we study the universe

rather passively at that we sit there at the end of a telescope and wait for light to reach us it's not a petri dish where we stir it or heated or freeze it or crack it or we just kind of there communing with the cosmos

my PhD thesis was significantly fed by data that I obtained from mountaintops at telescopes I got my data from mountains in Chile Senator Lolo and it employed all the natives of the natives the local local guilty that's another telescope that so there's all these telescopes that all have specific access points to the universe they're not all asking the same questions right and so it's the collection of all the data that gives us the complete understanding what we think is a complete understanding of the universe so what we do is try to understand our place in the universe and all I'm going to say is that if you have power over what happens on that mountain and it's sacred to you

because

whatever that is

it is something important to you and your sense of your understanding of your place in this world

that's would be spiritual significance I can tell you that what we learn as astrophysicists from those mountaintops

gives us a deeper understanding of who and what we are in this universe

so I would say that whatever is your concept of God

be it the the creator of the universe the spirit energy that pervades all of space and time whatever is your concept the discoveries of astrophysicists bring you closer to it

I get your perspective let me be the opposing view they feel I'm not trying to know I know you know this is just information couldn't this is information and I walk out of the room and then y'all vote right I'm not you know we believe in democracy here and majority rules that's it that's kind of a good thing it's kind of worked right but if it's not majority rules I don't know how they're going to make decision but let's say invent a future where the the natives vote if they vote I wanted to make sure they heard what I just said and and now take control of your own fate I just don't think they care I think they've decided that that's a Sacred Space and they don't want anybody doing anything to it then dozens their decision them you think that's okay I don't I don't judge

people's but if you wanted to make a convincing appeal to them no all I would say what I just told you that's it that is all I would tell them and when they vote I want them to understand that fact I could take it one step further and say

mountain tops because of the access they give astrophysicist and and by proxy us all to the universe

our sacred places to scientist

okay now it's not sacred in a religious sense but it's sacred in a in terms of a pathway

to knowing and understanding who and what we are in this universe we place great value on that so but it's not our land it's with you know it was a specifically these things have Europeans didn't come to Hawaii and find find Legions of scientists are conducting experiments okay they found native peoples governing themselves so so that's that the consequence if it gets voted down and that's permanent and there's no way around that

that telescope is still going to be built it just won't be built in Hawaii well where will it be built though they have to be built on mountaintops yeah so there are the foundation issue right yeah you want to be above you know schmutzy clouds and Haze and and you want to dry environment so there's less rain I went to the clouds are you visited yeah very good the CAC more than 10 years ago the first time and it was I got very fortunate it was a night where the moon was not out yes one is not that it was drummers weird thing yeah you want the darkest Sky you can we were worried as we were driving up there that was really cloudy but we drove through the clouds and we've got to the top and we got to the observatory and it was the most amazing without telescopes just we there was telescopes there but without telescopes it was the most amazing view of the sky at ever seen in my life and it changed my perspective of our place in the universe it looked like we were on a spaceship

like we were flying through the universe because of the diffused Lighting in on the big island because it's all set up so that it doesn't ruin what they're trying to accomplish at the CAC when you tomorrow for collections in the wrong place it's amazing not only that if there was a moon out and you did Ascend up through the clouds the Moonlight illuminates the clouds and you are an island in the middle of white cotton yeah and you're not even connected to the Earth it's what you imagine Mount Olympus would have been I've been out there for them when that happens to it the God's up there and there's kind of this their place it's there so so so yes and so any my brethren my fellow astrophysicist who have also observed from mountaintops by the way it's becoming a lost art because when I know it's not lost but becoming something we don't do anymore something called service observing will you put in your observing programme and it's Hannah to a technician at the telescope who point the telescope gets the data

and sends it back to you so the Next Generation doesn't have the experience that my generation did because it was a pilgrimage to the top of the mountain and you converted your life's path you converted your life schedule to become nocturnal and in so doing you you know this is the journey was long enough because you're in the middle of nowhere now you got to go nocturnal and by the time you're ready for this you are communing with the cosmos it is you the detector the telescope and the universe

and there's an eerie silence up there too because you don't hear anything the hum of maybe the the drop the motor of the telescope but that's it and so all I'm saying is if they choose to not have it the tell us we will go somewhere else one of them is the Canary Islands these are also volcanic hilltops not as high as as Mount aquella there's at 14,000 feet by the way I should have checked at what temperature water boils at the top of Mount of K we could have rounded that story out but I think it's around a hundred eighty degrees actually I think I did actually calculate it one time but anyhow so so you'd find a Mountaintop and we'll put it somewhere else and the data won't be as good but that'll be a consequence of it and none of that will go to Hawaii how do you think that's going to get resolved though if you had to guess I don't know I

I just don't know a lot of people are against it including Jason Momoa Aquaman's against it oh uh-huh he was out there protesting yeah and so we can get celebrity types to put the weight of their name behind it it magnifies the cause of others even if they're in the minority and so I like I said I think natives should hasn't been totally know who all the natives are is it is there some listings so that they can all vote for this one thing you would want people voting who are not native if you're voting on whether it's so sacred you don't want to put a telescope there you'd want people who have a an indigenous indigenous

concern for what goes on there and Indigenous and reference to Hawaii is relative everyone listen to the word indigenous is relative yeah especially with Hawaii because it means we re only indigenous people are black people in Africa okay a really good life human life began in Africa you everyone else travel to where they were so so native it's you set a time frame to declare what is native and what's not yeah and the native in its in its simplest form is are you born there so I'm a native New Yorker I'm born there but I wasn't the original settler there I would my species did not form on Manhattan Island so everybody travel to where they are they just got there before the Europeans and so that has become the definition of indigenous art Were You There When the Europeans landed then your indigenous but to other life forms on that on that rock on that Hawaii's are a volcanic

like it's a volcanic archipelago you know how that happens by the way you have all these multiple volcanoes in our string and a string you ever wonder why

how that happens sure you did wonder what you did you know why oh because there's a hot spot beneath Earth's crust it just sitting there okay and when you beneath the earth's crust stuff doesn't move around the way it does on Earth's crust Earth's crust shifts okay so that hotspot gurgles up makes a volcano then the hot spot goes dormant but the cot that the Shelf still drifts you still have continental drift so it drifts then hotspot says time for me to gurgle again it grows up now you get another volcano and then it goes dormant that volcano goes dormant it's shifts you get another one any time you see an a chain of islands jet guarantee they're made by volcanoes over enough time for continental drift to a shifted the plates over the hot spot of Earth's mantle so do you think what their concern with is the eventual spoiling of this beautiful natural resource that slowly but surely people are putting up houses there and

developments and all these different things and then the scientists are saying we need this sacred land because we're going to put a volcano and they're like look there's already a there's already a I mean we're going to put a telescope there's already a telescope up here enough you think that's what it is they're trying to Halt the progress of civilization or it mean maybe progress is a bad word the expansion of civilization yeah I mean thick let's go back what did Teddy Roosevelt to he said we got to preserve these lands yeah because they're beautiful and by the way he said that after he shot all these elephants and tigers lions and tigers and bears yeah I mean I hail from a museum the American Museum of Natural History would where he's the patron saint of that museum what happened was he realizes how important this land is and how beautiful it is and he is the he's the patron saint of the national park system so so that's the secular version of sacred Rite we don't say it's sacred but we've all decided as a

Unity that we care about these lands and you don't want to drill on it you don't want to put housing was it Lyndon Johnson's wife Lady Bird Johnson who said our freeways that were so carefully building after the second world war the Eisenhower freeway project okay hi you know the interstate system is this is our country we want to keep it beautiful so certain stretches over there are no Billboards Billboards would you know would change your relationship to Nature so certain stretches of Interstate or secularly sacred if if I can say that so I remember visiting visiting Australia and there's the the famous rock in the out in the outback the oh lure Hulu please help me get the I get my correct pronunciation of this old luru and it said it's I'm told it's one

coherent geologic rock it's not just an assembly of rocks and so I don't know enough about the geology of it but I do know that the Australian Aborigines eluru and okay iconic Red Rock look at that cool thing okay so that is one sort of geologic thing and and climbers want to climb it but that's cute it's miles in circumference okay so we visited it I've rented a bicycle with my wife and kids and we rode around it okay so now that is sacred to the local indigenous peoples

so they don't want you to climb on it well I'm a rock climber right you know what do you care I'm not going to ruin it I'm not going to they don't want you to climb on it and I try to think to myself is there a counterpart to this that would sort of wake up a Westerner to say I get it all right now suppose some people from some natives from Alaska or from the some tribes from Africa or some Aborigines came up from these remote places of the world walked up to the Vatican and said we want to climb the walls of this Vatican just for sport what would we say we want to climb the walls of st. Paul's Cathedral in downtown London what would you say no yeah but all those comprable me these we went we want to repel down the Tower of Big Ben

you're going to say no get the fuck are you would say no

these are important structures to us now are you going to say or the equivalent well we built those yeah the natives didn't build the rock right exactly okay it depends on how important that detail is to you all I'm saying is on the level of weeks say this is sacred you say that is sacred and now you're going to have different rules for who's climbing what I think it'll Fort they force you to take pause so here's an argument in full in like supporting what you're saying look at what's going on with the Himalayas I mean it's the human shit that they had they leave behind there well the climate so disturbing yeah the climbers yeah it's horrible it's really horrible I mean there's tons of it tons of human waste okay so what you do there is if it's still not a problem that people are climbing it's that they're leaving waste you don't stop the climbers you tax them at some level so that now you have clean up Crews that come up after them yeah but it's

no it's incredible the bring anything back good so there you go you're all Maxim you make it worth it all right but you understand like they were here to leave the bodies up there right you know that they can't protect her that's what I heard well why you think they could bring tons of shit when they can't even bring bodies here's what I'm saying when they invented Cars and Cars were killing people in the street because people don't know how to cross the street they don't know where to cross the street people don't know how to stop the cars they say will cars are actually a pretty useful thing do we ban cars know we make stoplights oh people across our we make crosswalks oh let's put Lanes to the cars don't hit each other and let's make air bags so that you don't fly through the windshield all right so there are ways around problems if you value the thing that it is that you want to do so people even crap up there you make them bring it back or you develop a system that enables the stuff to come back no matter what and if you can't do that you don't want it messed up then cancel the whole

we didn't cancel cars we got really Innovative about having kids a big difference between cars and human shit that's left in the side of the mountain I think the real problem too is I think if you credible you mountain climbing and you want to keep doing it then you solve the problem this would Engineers do that's all they do but he's working problem having over been able to bring those bodies back because of the physical limitations of the human body it's barely you barely have enough juice to climb it's so thin they are so thin it's so dangerous the energy drawn you is so long leave those bodies there so we have to human shit that you're talking about or is that all there's no that you're talking about the fact that humans were there that we got we're not very clean about our presence that's what you're talking about well we're just being human we have to go when you gotta go you gotta go when you gotta go up there you just open up the hatch and let her rip down the side of a mountain and the resulting you know in the space station they

your urine and your your crap congratulations to them because that put Engineers on the problem when I mean my chocolate they extract all the water from it and then what's left is highly dried and he drank their role yeah yeah water is water its water molecule that's the thing about by the way by the way every Grant water people's pee is in it that's correct yes but you got to buy a bottle of water here hey vampy okay this has Napoleon's penis yes yes there are more molecules of water in this bottle then there are bottles of water this volume of water in all the world's oceans so in other words if you drank this and peed it out

okay you have enough molecules in your pee and your sweat and then and in the the moisture that you exhale all that goes back into the environment scattering into all sources of water or the world and there's enough of those molecules to occupy every half liter of water that that covers the surface of this Earth so that given enough time you scoop a cup of water out of there I don't even care if you filter it the H2O is still there that is water that has passed through the kidneys of Abraham Lincoln mmm Genghis Khan

Joan of Arc mmm

Socrates Plato know Jesus can I get a bottle of juice and trying to get my Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure list going here okay you just ruined it but yes Jesus would be included in that so would Socrates yes so that is the by the way the same is true with breaths of air there are more molecules of air in Every Breath You Take then there are breaths of air in all the atmosphere of the Earth

so when you exhale there's enough of those molecules to scatter and the the air currents will do this to scatter into every breath of air that is inhale so when you take a breath of air you have molecules of air that went through the lungs of Jesus

we're all connected and there's no way around it and the water that we have is the water that we have right we drink it we P it yeah because the the atmosphere comes down as rain yeah and the rain is the important difference is a lot most of the water on Earth is salt water that you can't drink rise a limited amount that's fresh water how much of a by the way all the Glaciers are fresh water because that's its frozen rain right frozen rain here's something that no one talks about when the glaciers melt where does the water go

just tell me you know the answer just

and the ocean back in the ocean okay so but this is now non salty water going into the ocean so you're mixing fresh water with brackish water and they occupy different places in the vertical profile of the ocean and because salt water is heavier than fresh water so it's freshwater occupies the top right it's not as salty as the water at the below and there are circulations in the ocean not only up and down you know Northern latitudes Southern latitude like the Gulf Stream there's also circulation top to bottom and the combinations of all these circulations create the stability of the ocean if you disrupt that oh my gosh they're animal two fishes that can't live anymore where they used to be because the salt level is different and so some animals might go extinct some weather patterns will change because the ocean affects climate so these are this is why climate modeling is so

cold yet so complicated just because a lot of variables that show up

why can't we take the salt out of the water you can't it just takes energy you can do it but why isn't that been being done on you can you have to ask you will you he was paying for the energy where you get the energy from it's an energy thing but would think that would be very valuable me think about how many people blind valuable enough yet that's the point well is it that it's pure money dude it's just money you can ask what does it cost to ship a bot up a half pint of water from Fiji okay whatever hell is the square bottle that you buy in Fiji Water is it Fiji right yeah Fiji Water what does it cost to to bottle that in Fiji ship it here relative to

desalinating the ocean

it's cheaper to ship like the Fiji they'll be a day when that's not the case and future Wars are going to be fought over who has access to fresh water and the value of water will go up and by the way the value of water and space is $10,000 a pound

so if you if you last you a comet and he say this is a lot of fresh water yeah you could I guess you can bring it back down to Earth but that's expensive you're better off selling it to NASA for nine thousand dollars a pound because it costs them $10,000 a pound to put water into orbit see you better off keeping it up there and somehow or another yeah and so if you harness water in space you're better off trading in space with it then bringing it back down to a planetary surface at the moment the economics favor that what is the desalination process so it's simple you just evaporate the water it's basically a still it's it's it's a Distillery right so here's here's a pocket of water with that's highly salty and you just heat it the H2O evaporates leaving sodium chloride behind and at the ends you get this salt deposit at the bottom of your dish at the bottom of your vessel

oh wait a minute what happens to lakes that used to be there that salty Lakes they used to be there that aren't there's a salt deposit that's the source of our modern-day salt this is I tweeted the other day that all table salt is is all table salt is sea salt it just came from long-buried prehistoric evaporated sees so salt mines and I was I was told by some geologist I had I had a narrow and narrow usage of the word mind I think for mine I think of a hole in the ground but mining operations include surface operations as well so they're surface lakes that have that have evaporated and you get salt from that as well as the minds that you would dig down deep below so that whole all that is a mining operation my tweet only reference the buried ones but that's all but it's all from evaporated water so all from evaporate it's all sea salt is the point now nuclear power plants rely on Steam right isn't that part of our weekly I just finished

just to finish the point so you evaporate the water and the salt left maybe you might want to use that make some sea salt out of it table salt and that evaporated water condenses out over here and that is distilled water right now you might want to mineralize it so it tastes good because distilled water doesn't taste good places not really healthy to drink it as you probably know you drink distilled water it goes into equilibrium with your minerals sucking minerals out of you so it has the same minerality that your body does and then you pee it out and you'll systemically drain yourself of important electrolytes yeah so generally the water that you would say tastes good and you enjoy has some mineral bits some some kind of mineral minerals in it now nuclear power plants don't they the process is using that nuclear energy to create steam to operate turbines and yeah basically all of our electricity day comes from essentially the most electricity is coming from

turbines that convert steam to electricity so sorry so you heat water the water makes steam the steam turns a turbine and the Turning turbine generates electricity isn't it so so it's a matter of where do you get the energy to boil the water that's what it comes out is it Cole is it oil is it is it nukes is it wind is it Hydro all of this if you get a hydro plant oh by the way then a hydro plant they don't have to make Steam because they have the water the water pressure at the base of the dam moves through the turbines in terms of turbines in a make electricity they don't have to eat anything

because they have the water pressure to do that anyway that is also solar power by the way because the sun evaporated ocean water the water lifts up becomes a cloud the cloud moves over ground over the land the cloud rains into the lake that is above the dam

so the energy that got the water up there in the first place is all solar so you should think of hydroelectric and solar as well as wind energy because wind is the uneven unequal heating of are on Earth surface and that creates air currents that's also solar power is also this also learn isn't it conceivable that you could come up with a combination of desalination and power plant where you're using the heat to combine you know to make the turbines move and then you steam it off and that's where you get the water from that would be a good s an interesting idea and I don't know how much that's been thought about what you're saying is I'm making steam anyway yeah so why don't I do it suck all the water out yeah and make that's a nice to for one kind of thing three-for-one you get salt that it sold out the other side it's salt gets all you fresh water fresh water and you generate electricity yeah to do patent it no I'm as free for anybody who wants it could take that and run with it

I have high hopes for tidal energy because there are certain places on Earth with tides are very powerful and they're very and you just put some paddles in there and you'd sort of and it and it works both ways when the water comes in and out is it Battery Technology that's the reason why La isn't completely dependent upon solar because it seems like this is the spot to do it like it never rains I mean if it rains here 50 days a year that's crazy or any Desert right and we're next door to the Mojave Desert right so so one of the problems is by the way the deserts are are generally localized to certain latitudes on Earth it's because of General circulation on Earth so the air pockets on Earth there's a lot going on earth air moves in a lot of ways but there's a there's an overriding circulation of air that has are sort of rising up at the equator

imagine a cylindrical movement of air that the Gerdes the Earth okay so just above the equator you have a cylinder rotating where you have are rising and just below the equator you have a cylinder rotating the opposite way so that there is still rising at the equator okay so are rise at the equator is unstable it makes clouds the equator is one is the cloudiest place on Earth practically one of the cloudiest places well how about the other side of those cylinders where the air descends

okay okay when you have descending are you don't make clouds

well how big is the cylinder it's about 30 degrees of latitude wide

so you're rainiest places on Earth are at the equator that's where you get the Amazon rainforest in the lake and your driest places on Earth or 30 degrees north and 30 degrees south

because the cylindrical movements of are have descending are there so the Mojave Desert the Sahara Desert the Gobi desert they're all around 30 degrees north latitude

so this so we live on the surface of the Earth where there are forces operating that are so much bigger than us that we don't even think about it why is it an India would be a desert because it's right in that zone where it not for the seasonal monsoons it doesn't rain much in India except when it's monsoon season so the monsoon is sort of the exception to what would otherwise happen there and that's why when loves the monsoon if they hate it but they love it it cools the whether they get sources water there it is so the ask you the question again okay I got it sorry oh so so so Battery Technology like what why is until a completely solar it should be it's not

some of it is cost La is soaked are heavy and plus you know there's a Lamborghini passing me at 20 miles an hour on the 405 that this is the land of wasted horsepower right so any place that has a lot of sunlight should be thriving on solar panels and you guys aren't I looked around very few have very few homes have solar panels and I don't fully understand that you could if you did that then you'd run your own run off your own power you can do this yeah you can do the major Difficult by the way and so so yeah I mean the price might have to come down a little further you don't really see the full price of oil it's it's subsidized in ways that are not obvious to us you know we built the roads with our taxes so that car companies could sell you a car that you drove on the road that they that was built for them if they have to build all their own roads the price of gas to go in the car would have been much higher

the price of your car would have been at all that would have been much higher if the car companies how to do it what I'm saying is I make a product and I want you to use it but there's no roads oh I convinced you to build the road so you can buy my car and drive on that road that's a weird way of looking at say but it's a way to sit full cost accounting it's full cost accounting what is the cost of coal it's how many people died of lung disease of Naman ultra-microscopic silikov oh Kendall County osis okay that's the longest word in the in the Random House dictionary is that yeah that's basically black long yes basically black like you can break it up the new mono ultra-microscopic silikov oh with the silicates in can oh Connie osis so there's all medical it's except stapled together to make that word so so what is the cost to their health their death their the air quality asthma the total cost of oil is not what you pay at the gas tank

it's other things that we shall out that are not realized in the actual cost of that source of energy If You full cost accounted what all this really costs then the solar option would look way better than it does relative to it that's all I'm telling but when you're talking about cars and car manufacturers having to pay for roads isn't that like against France isn't that like restaurants having to pay for toilet paper no restaurants going restaurants have to pay for land that you would park your car on

to go into the restaurant not in New York City but in places where everybody has cars if you don't have valet parking my restaurant will not occupy the entire plot of land I just bought it's going to be some it's going to be 1/4 of that land and all the rest are going to be parking spots I have absorbed the cost of your parking your car in me in my acquisition of that of that real estate for example to make a convenience of people could use your facility correct but I bore that cost as as restaurant or right or maybe I'm renting of course but that's that's how does that relate to someone the car manufacturers being forced to pay for the roads or that they should be that would have been interesting had they because then it would have changed the pricing of everything but why would they be are you going to make a car and no one has a road to drive it on then there's it's what it's your responsibility then you don't have a business but don't you want a car yes so we all agree car

good they move fast they get you where you want to go right so how do we as a society make it easier for people to get where they want to go well we all chip in and we make roads it's not entirely to before there were cars car nobody's thinking you know I want to go to Chicago tomorrow and I'll be back on Thursday no one is even having that thought before they were email no one's thinking I don't send you an e-mail right these are not thoughts so I'm just talking about all the forces that had to align to make it actually work I'm okay so now what's holding back electric cars well I might not be able to charge it it takes a little too long to charge compared to my other vehicle are there enough Chargers along the way well these were questions that were asked when people got cars have cars and it takes guess is there a gas station oh standard all says we'll put a gas station there because you're buying cars and so it's a whole family of businesses coming together and you're paying for a big part of that it's not just the car you paid for the roads so I'm saying

I'm not complaining about it I'm just describing as a reality I get it I just didn't understand the the comparison to car manufacturers paying for that they say if I make them car and I want you to buy my car I need a road so I'm going to build the road oh wait a minute I convinced you to build a road that's even better oh my gosh I made it a national priority oh it's a security problem we need a we need a military design Interstate System that's what the interstates its military that's why it goes through mountains instead of over them that's why they're long stretches of straight away so you can land an airplane on it that's why they built above the road that's why the surface roads are not the same thing as highways because the highways are not on the surface because they built up why because tanks can drive on them without decomposing the road what's specs did we put this to to the Autobahn the Germans invented the modern highway system they invented the Cloverleaf they invented the off ramps they invented all of that and their armies can move on their roads like it was nobody's business and eyes

Howard said hey we will get me some of that he comes that's probably not how he said it I'm guessing but he comes old convinces us all that we need to build an internist I got nothing against the interstate system I'm just giving you the foundational facts for it and by the way Interstate System cost as much as going to the Moon about a hundred billion dollars in total cost seems like a bargain compared to how many people use it versus having to watch the moon and it grows the economy that has a lot of a lot of but basically it was sold as a as a security need because if you're at War you need to move materiel and personnel and you might have to land an airplane in an emergency way and so all freeways do this you're gonna crash a plane do it on a freeway

happens yeah but do it because you might land safely and if you don't land safely the road comes to you to get to the hospital don't crash in a forest we can't get to you right can't get emergency vehicles good call yeah you know if you seen this new Porsche has a new electric vehicle that they're about to release in this revolutionary groundbreaking technology what allows from recharge much faster you could charge up to 80% in 20 minutes because it's double the well pull up the information was it wattage or amperage well what just just a couple of things lunch different batteries can't cheat physics so so yes some batteries charge faster than others but what's what really drives the charging speed of battery is the is the voltage over which you charge the battery and it goes as the square of the voltage right so Supercharger so if you charge a an electric car in your

hundred and 20 volt home electricity it could take 30 hours if you go to 240 volts okay it'll take you know ten hours if you go to 384 volt so you keep going up that drops precipitously and you can get a voltage where the thing will charge in a few a couple hours yeah we have a supercharger here we do yeah we have some set up here for my Tesla so there you go with special yes quickly the s yes yeah cool piholland yeah so you charge it and at most 90 minutes I'll think they call it that anymore I think they aren't the only superchargers know there's the the the Tesla I think they call it a like they have like an S Raven they have anymore no it's not the p100 D that's the that's the heart they don't call it a capacity okay now they I think they have a based on whether it's a single engine or double engine they've simplified things that's a removed all the labels to make it a little Slicker sleeker so did in the Porsche is it just the

up there selling a higher voltage charger to you or is it is the battery so completely different Google 10 interesting things about the new Porsche to I can how do you say that I can that's the Articles reading to them that's cool so my concern is batteries are still kind of 19th century technology yeah you know invented the battery voltage Alexandra Volta that makes sense he's cool yeah voltage voltage results come from him vole yeah all these guys got you know they got famous so that Tesla we got a car named after the guy had a nose a car there's actually a unit of electromagnetism named after Nikola Tesla well yeah it's Weber's per square meter I say so it's a it's like the the density of magnetic field strength within a certain area through through a surface so Betty charge bite inductive plate the

wretched Porsche claims it's a Porsche Turbo charging system charges at 350,000 watching kilowatts it 15 minutes eighty percent in just 15 minutes oh that's cool it's not clear how Barry Marshall will prevent battery overheating maybe they won't have a good luck bitch so God could be vaporware but we'll see but what they've already been doing it what but it's game on that's what that means yes game on whether it works or not it's like people Tesla's on notice everybody's on notice yeah oh my gosh I'm going to lose market share because people want to buy an electric car and so you didn't want something that's going to charge fast and that's the number one complaint that most people have over electric car or you find a way to okay so that's one way but another way is you find a way to swap batteries as quickly as it in less time than it takes to fill a tank yeah you know how much time do you stand there with your hand on the nozzle waiting for the gas to go in right so they would have to have a mountain of battery sitting there waiting for people to just come in and take it any worse than a mountain that that it did a than a

one can reservoir tank of gas there's no different what caused that any different probably larger volume right possibly but so what if it's economic you just do it right and you get the batteries all at the bottom of the car and it's going NASCAR you run in pop it up take out the battery put this on your off do you think that's the future why not that's better than charging the battery you don't have a cardia know I do I add as of yeah I do have cars now keep didn't used to I didn't used to so expensive as hell to garage it in New York they just went up the price just went up the big the big price point of that was when did the average cost to garage a car for a month in New York's in Manhattan equal the average cost of a two-bedroom home in the United States and we passed that cost of rent

yes you have a question or two it was like some $600 a month or something to rent a parking spot to read a parking spot right one spot one spot I'm not sounded every month you can rent a home in many places in the suburbs somewhere for 600 kind of car you drive so I now have a Tesla yeah so I ponied up there expensive by the way sorry yes I have the X so that's my sort of utility vehicle the x is there the SUV a very high acceleration as you know and but yeah I did there's no maintenance on it right there was no oil change there's no you know the only moving part is the what you turn in the wheels with right the no Pistons nothing so you know cars really should have been this a hundred years ago and then we would have had a hundred years of clever engineering to perfect that gives you the documentary who killed the electric car no I haven't but I know about it and I know some of the background story behind it and the electric car was one of the first concerns because electricity was all the rage a hundred years ago what's Electrify the city's this days

this Edison there's test everybody wants to do everything electric and the car had just come out let's do it electric so this was not a New Concept and it's unfortunate that more sort of innovative thinkers hadn't been brought to task on how to perfect the electric car speaking of Tesla and electricity will what did you think about Teslas initial idea that Westinghouse shot down to sort of broadcast electricity so people could just pull it out of the air yes so the people in the Nikola Tesla fan club somehow feel that he got wronged in his life okay and surely some of that is true with regard to Pat his business Acumen and patents and who owns the patent and who does does he have good business sense is he is Savvy or as as sneaky whatever other words you might apply to Edison all right so I get that

but his contributions to electromagnetism are real and recognized in the world of physics like I said there's a unit of electromagnetism named after him so don't come crying to me say he was not recognized by my people okay he's recognized he had some ideas that were a little out there and out there on a level where

it almost certainly would have not worked and here's why okay electromagnetic energy is communicating between us I see you that's because visible light is reflecting off of your scalp okay to me it's reflecting off of my nose back to you you can ask how much energy is in that will not much it's not much energy in a visible light photons if you stay too long enough you might feel a little warmth from it but no you're not going to drive a car with that energy and not going to run a motor with it okay

well if what good is it oh you know what we found we can use electromagnetic radio waves which are the lowest form of electromagnetic energy lowest energy level of all over there we can use right away is not to transmit energy that's not the point of it the point is to transmit information and information became what characterized the modern era and that's why in the 1950s and 60s when everyone is imagining flying cars and motorized sidewalks everything is running on energy because they're thinking energy is going to be free in the future but they didn't figure was that information would be free or easy to transmit and to generate and to store and to to delete and whereas the energy that would take to move things and to drive things that would be a problem no one saw that coming nobody saw that coming so

as your photons get higher and higher energy yes you can start doing things with them yet X-rays and gamma rays but that's not what Tesla was referring to he was talking about moving radio waves through the space that would charge things up you can't pack sufficient energy in your radio wave to do anything we need to do mechanically currently current well back then would it be sufficient it might have been something you could have done with your radio waves because the needs were no but that knows no I take that back that was the height of the Industrial Revolution that was the age of the machine the age are the giant turbines radio energy is not touching that well but wasn't it possible that he was considering it for things like radios or light bulbs or household items would it be possible to use that power for that

so now what so what happens so the radio waves if you had enough power and radio waves to generate a light bulb to power a lightbulb well hat through the air Are you standing in the way of this this energy has Pathways we now send energy through wires because you're not standing in the way of the wire the wire is buried the wire has insulation it would require sort of suspension you want to move it through the air and you want to walk around like no that's not how that works what up but I've heard people moving in our energy through the air to power something that itself could kill you

the energy powering through the moving through the air could kill you unless you you bring a little bit amount and then you store it and then use it later you could do it that way

sure some sort of batteries yes you need a storage system but you would still probably have some sort of residual effect of having this stuff broadcast through the air and who knows what it would do to human health if you needed that much energy right now the energy to transmit information is so low that it no it has no effect on your health that's why I can pull out my cell phone I'm in a brick with this fake brick is fake brick I'm in a bills rubric that no it's not this it is go touch it I don't believe you go ahead was a real Brooks go touch the bricks man Jesus Christ thinks we got fake bricks who do you think we are

okay oh you thought I was a liar how weird

now let me be honest so so it's a venir a brick veneer okay so the whole thing I real building so it's not structural brick slice the end up bricks and then they mortar it in and everything real bridge and make it look okay so so we're both right but it's not structural real favor so here I am I'm real fake so we're inside I can put my cell phone and have a phone call yes these are microwaves of a frequency that can penetrate walls send information to my cell phone and I can communicate using information and not have that energy kill me but it's not enough to power the actual it is not enough to power the device correct so anticipate esoteric everyone is thinking he's got the solution to the Future transmission of energy no he doesn't well I don't think anyone saying that but he sent his fans do but back then there were no computers back then there were no television but we did have machines it was the era of the big machine right but I don't think he was insinuating that you could use

don't know what he wanted to factory I don't know what he would have powered with it if not light bulbs and other things you know one thing you brought up that's really interesting you talked about light reflecting off of things you wear that BMW painted a they painted one of their cars vantablack I saw this is the jet black yes I saw my soul and recently lack yeah no light can bounce off of it and so not only can't drive it because people won't be able to see it at night it literally saying like this is just a theoretical be just like what would you want to do you could line it was with the pull of trim edge of it because Mercy I saw one in a parking lot it's fuck it's very bad as she saw one in real life it's that's not what I saw I saw a sports car ocean saw vantablack car they have them I saw a sports car that was it was not exactly the car you have up the I don't know what that is what I saw BMW that they painted vantablack okay well then Advance the black is available on their badass low to the ground sports car and so what I'd know it's not available commercially what do you want me to say I'm saying that for BMW it's not

it's not something they're off I'm in La you have all your cars here and he said if everything showcase here what I didn't see it in New York I saw it here in La well I'm sure some may be wishing to be a preview maybe somebody else did and I'm just saying BMW if someone did it BMW didn't make it themselves okay someone must have done I mean you can do it it's a real thing vantablack real collar so one of the principles of stealth is that if you send a signal to it it never comes back to you so you have no sort of radar measures of its existence correct but there are two ways you can do that one of them is you cannot reflect back

okay but by absorbing it right okay so jet matte black will absorb it and not reflected back but if there's enough energy coming at it it will heat up because you can't get something for nothing here it'll heat up the skin of that and could be bad for the occupants that's what they said about the article the article about vantablack if you put that in the desert forget it well they were saying even in Los Angeles you are so hot exactly dick so another way to do it is the signal comes to me and I reflected in a direction that is not back to you

so the B-2 bomber is not only non-reflective back to you it takes the signal and reflects it and double bounces it so that all your energy gets sent in other directions and not back to you so it doesn't then keep the energy that was sent to it so that's another way to do it another there's another stealth which was featured in one of the recent not recent four years ago James Bond movies where light that comes at it the light that's behind it

goes around it coherently and continues to come towards you so that you think you're seeing what's behind it and it's not there you are seeing what's behind it but the path of that light went around the vessel and continued on its way to you

so you think you're just seeing the grass in the tree but there's a car sitting right there

you know about this technology no yeah right now it exists only for very look up stealth light Ray stealth and so the material has to be able to know what is behind it you saying small objects only so not only with that only works in one site line whereas if you needed functional stealth everybody looking at it should every path every sight line to it should be able to see what's behind it on the other side of that side of the way it reflects things but yeah it's it carries the light beam around it and sends it out the other side you have to find it yeah

you know what you have is you just look like a solid block and a person was looking at it and you see their eye out the other side it's really freaky

it's a future of stealth what are you thoughts on digital privacy what do you mean well like phones here like phones like you ever talk to someone about something and then you see it on your Google feed you see ads yeah so we don't I mean I haven't researched this but my wife tell her we were once gifted one of these you know what do you call those things that you talk to oh yeah whatever the Google one is is that Alexa was home Google at home no Alexis is Amazon price so it's Google at home and she said don't turn that on I said why not because they'll be listening and I didn't believe her at first and then I started hearing stories and so so I don't have one but it's not coz I know that it's listening or not well yeah substantiated there's being actual setup they've apologized for actual human contractors listening into conversations that people have had

having sex having arguments like it's real yeah that seems like it should be a problem so what's your question to me what am I well for it or my old one well what's your question no my question is one of the things that you're getting out of their ability to scan things is there tailoring things to your liking like you know your phone tells you it's 22 minutes until you get home I get it and I'm like bitch how do you know where I live exactly I didn't tell you where I live I got here it is and I'm just old-fashioned about this okay I'm get off my lawn about this yeah I'm the old man in a rocking chair on the porch saying goodbye Sonny get off my lawn but you're also scientist okay but I don't want to okay I wear multiple hats I'm also Dad I'm also a husband I got all these hats for all those things in this particular case I'm old man and my old man sensibility is

if you track what I shop at a store what I buy in a store

and then send me coupons based on what you think I'm going to buy next based on what I've bought before which is kind of the same thing you're describing you have denied me the chance of stumbling upon something that I never thought of buying

and that takes away my freedoms and I don't want that how they denied you the chance of stumbling upon something different it's not diabolical it's just in the Casual flow of Life I'll give an example I walk into a wine shop is it can I help you

and I say

if you help me find what I'm looking for it's a guarantee that I will never find what I'm not looking for

and I'll end up spending less money in your wine shop

that's a weird way I look it's the art of browsing dude you're old enough to remember when I got to look up this word in a dictionary and you get through six other words oh I never knew that we're let me read that you learn other words en route to the word you're targeting I understand okay wouldn't that that is how I feel and that's how I think about my interaction with this world I'd like the randomness the randomness of it enriches my life and if you're going to advertise to me because you think you know who I am maybe you do

But ultimately end up spending less money because it's the diversity of how I think and what I buy and what I think of buying and how I buy it and how much money I spend that is the richness of the life I lead you're trying to channel me into some product something that fulfills a what do you call it when they have the study whether you're going to buy something or not the survey that no no the the table of people do you like this product or not focus group am I just a focus group to you if I am you don't know me

and I want to experience this world by stepping where I've never stepped before and buying something I've never thought of buying and if you know my previous habits you're assuming I'm going to stay that way for the rest of my life and maybe most people do and maybe I might do that but if I do is because I chose to not because you have decided that that's how I should be well don't you think that just seem annoying I'm sorry are you getting a little excited sorry don't you think they're just doing that because they think it would be effective to advertising that way so if you go Googling new Nikes and then as you're looking at something in the Google ad pops up and it's for new Nikes I said hey Neil I know you were looking at these boys we sorry maybe I just need a little nudge I mean it's not I don't think that's that diabolical

I'm the old man on the porch I'm saying the Next Generation might feel completely different steam I say I love it they know exactly what I want you heard about the case where they were the I read this I haven't read verified it but it's completely plausible it was a teenage girl who was Googling pregnancy tests because maybe she got pregnant okay and the fact that she had searched pregnancy test she got coupons in the mail for baby products

her parents had one of the wide what is this

she got outed that's a little weird yeah but it's the kind of thing that can happen that seems that seems intrusive certainly the second pregnancy it's no in every way no be don't tell me it's not intrusive because you want to buy 90 being you physical things that's not just something that appears on your Google feed you can cook a glance over what's the difference between send you mail to your mailbox and filling your advertising space in front of your face with product with only one other people can see it I walk by your computer I can see it don't look yeah I guess I'm arguing in principle rather than in detail okay well let me take the CounterPoint in on the positive side what they're doing in terms of particularly Google in terms of you're driving right and in terms of using of Google Maps and documenting the history of all these

driving and especially with things like ways which they acquired is they've developed a much more efficient product than Apple which would Apple does the Apple Maps they shred everything you do this they do they did they all where you've been and where you're going that's correct but Apple Maps sucks so you have to because they don't have enough data they don't have nearly the amount of data Google has Billy what is Google giving you that Apple Maps isn't

they're telling you you're 22 minutes from home you time for you to drive home what do you value in that well yes and also it's not a map wait hold on to their programs far better I can ask it how long it'll take me to go somewhere rather than it knowing what my what my daytime schedule looks like and then coming in like you said how do you know bitch you know I had that same reaction as you did and I said I wonder what's causing this it's a little creepy and again I'm the old man syndrome some ten-year-old kid that's only ever known this and becomes 15 and 20 that is life to them right why would they even maybe they're not going to complain about it but I'm the old man on the porch but do you know I'm saying get off my lawn sort of intrusiveness or at the very least this connection that you have to these devices and that they have to your patterns and your information is seems inevitable

that doesn't mean I have to welcome me with open arms but I agree it's inevitable I agree plus you have security cameras everywhere everybody knows where you are if the KGB had access to people the way we in the during the Cold War the way modern the United States has access to us

we would say oh my gosh you have taken away your country's freedoms where the free leaders of the Free World and you guys have imprisoned your entire population oh my gosh

the KGB would give their right arm to have the monitoring devices that are actively in Pratt place here in the United States today mmm we know where you are we know how long you stayed there we have records of it we know what street you were walking on we don't necessarily moderate but we can dig it up if we have to and with facial recognition I can track you wherever you are I feel like there was just a facial recognition I use it now it doesn't have I'm wearing if I'm wearing a hat or sunglasses it still knows who the hell I am yeah

yeah it relies on so many points you get so many points of cheekbones and nose I separations and everything I think ratios of numbers are highly powerful probes of the structure in the form of things to say you know Fibonacci Sequence right that could be in there if you have a Fibonacci head it doesn't everybody's face not fibonacci's I think is a little overplayed fibonacci's little overplay it especially once you get a nose job huh so it's gonna cheat you can find it in nature and sales in this beautiful but you've overlooked all the places where it doesn't show up in nature so appear so many times it doesn't appear in more places than it does appear right but in a lot of living things yeah living fence behind cones yeah pineapples there's a lot of sunflower seeds it's very or sunflowers flowers for yeah really weird isn't it

yeah that it I mean it's just this random I mean they're not random but this well if the next thing you do depends on the previous two things you did you get the Fibonacci series I mean that's often the case with say you know think of things in your life you do where the third thing you do depends on you having done the previous two things in this exactly the same way that's not everything in your life but you can surely find some things to do that hmm I think it was Camden New Jersey where they had such a crisis that such that was so Random no it's not because you're talking about surveillance yeah Camden New Jersey had such a crisis of funding that I think there was a brief period of time at least I don't know if it's changed where they literally didn't have a police force and one of their Solutions was to put surveillance cameras everywhere and the idea was to sort of try to capture all the shit that was going down here it is the surveillance city of Camden New Jersey community of six years ago

crime and the intrusive tools they're using in hopes of stopping it right yeah this was I mean I don't remember reading a question after this happening it's let me take away your freedoms for your own safety mmm yeah this is this is a well-known you know Benjamin Franklin wrote about it which is famous Benjamin Franklin quote about security and freedom yeah he who abandons freedom for security deserves neither or is getting neither or something yeah so so this is not it yet they that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety

those who sacrifice liberty for safety for security deserve neither he who would trade Liberty for some temporary security deserves neither Liberty that he's got all combinations yeah and he want to cover that bitch all permutations on that one this is what I mean I don't wanna leave any room for misquoting he understood that so your your security you give up some security for privacy I think yes and I don't know if it's a well-known place where that should be drawn and you can actually get an entire generation born into a state where they think that's normal mmm we all know think it's normal you have to show ID to walk into an office building well my gosh what would that look like during the Cold War you have to show you in the United States you have to show your papers just to walk into a building well they're also changing oh my gosh he's system where if you don't want to travel with a passport you're going to have to have a new for to go through the day a federal driver's license federally endorsed driver's license I just went through that last week yeah right

so when did that go into play when is that going to play out it's for everybody like next year or something it's very soon if you want to travel in a particular way if you don't drive any that doesn't matter fly right we want to fly correct correct and I carry my passport wherever I go so it's not really a problem for me but so carry passport everywhere you go if you want to just jet out of the country yeah that's nice how is your brain wired my would think you know what shape you know if I had four passports then you say do I want to leave the country yeah whoever there anybody in a you know Espionage movie there's somebody who has five passports in a safe setting the head and with the with wads of cash of every currency so so I think I worry that we're sliding towards a state of

total monitoring on the premise that we're all better off for it right and it's like the frog in the heated water we don't feel it day by day but it's happening because we all agree that we can be hand and patted down just to get on an airplane we've all accepted that because of a handful of people a handful of historically handful

historically handful not even a handful in this moment just historically and for the people we also yes take my luggage x-ray my luggage take away my liquids Pat me down and I'm okay with that well that's a transition and I'm okay with security cameras in the street it was okay in Banks we understood that but now when I exit the bank and I'm in the street when I'm walking and they walking in the park so I don't know I don't know the future of that I really don't know I saw the movie 1984 recently not a very good way of the book is better than the movie and I hate to be the one of the people who say that but I was reminded how you can create an entire state

where everyone is kept in line because somebody is telling you we are fighting this battle out on the front lines I'd forgotten this from the book They're fighting a war on the front lines you never see the war you never hear about the war you know anything about the war other than it exists and you have to do things a certain way in country so that your country can protect itself from these evil people that want to take over and destroy your way of life so everybody's under control some big brother well what they didn't anticipate though was these social media companies would be the guards are The Gatekeepers of your privacy because that's what's interesting is that you voluntarily give them all your information that's not government's rights its Twitter and Facebook Google and all this is all the stuff that we use on a daily basis that has access to everything that you do this almost

inconceivable to someone outside of this generation that there would be a company that would provide a service and through that service you would give up all Notions of privacy privacy yeah because literally you have a microphone that's listening everywhere you go you have a bug right there you can ground with you I mean I don't remember what you've been you've been pinned bucked right yeah really is you breathe end with a lapel you will get ads for things you talked about and that has been proven so what is that what is it is these passive listening devices that only picking up keywords it's no big deal it's just keywords the frog in the water that's why I'm telling ya so I don't know where it's going to go like I said I'm a little old folk old fogey about that but I think will resolve it you think it should be regulation generally if you have something good and it gets abused you regulate that's the whole point of right that's where here alive today because of Regulation because they're a nefarious people who in control of powerful forces operating on society

would gain at the expense of everyone else and would not be good for the progress of civilization so you regulate okay airlines are regulated so that you don't die all right we have the safest record now ever for commercial airlines American carriers the safest ever look at look at not only how many people have not died relative to when we grew up we grew up through at least one or two planes crashed each year you'd lose me to one of 300 people every year that was like the Baseline number that number is near zero now and way more planes are taking off and Landing that at any time when we were kids so it's a double it's a double progress point for not only the Transportation safety administration but engineering technology and everything we care about we want to fly so you regulate you make sure these are inspected this often

you don't the pilots don't fly more than this many hours you this get soiled this gets replaced it's one of the triumphs of modern engineering the aerodynamics aerospace engineering as a branch of what we do as civilization is one of the greatest achievements there ever was a great Jamie did you find that stealth stuff found it there are cars that have black velvet no no no car this is be a laboratory laboratory okay

look at laboratory stealth light something try that yeah yeah I found lamps or cloaks that people wear that sort of seems like video oh yeah yeah that seems like fucker evening yeah there's a lot of blood in Harry Potter the the the was a cloak that they wear the invisibility cloak that would be this principle yeah if it existed within with that there's a bunch of videos of that but it seems like they're just using After Effects like Adobe or something like that Deb fuck with the video rather than create an actual product that because there was a woman in an office that had a blanket and she held up the blanket and you could only see the whole office you wouldn't see the blanket at all you'd see what's behind her behavior she lowered the blanket you can see her and then from the blanket down twice and that just a green screen of the yeah that's what it was I think she was holding up a

in blanket if I had to guess this might be it still gets stuck martyr out of no no no no sorry sorry no no there's nothing to do with that that's that's the map of dark matter in the universe three dimensional map I've tried to give that a shot no we don't know what it is so don't worry about if you don't understand that but it's too goddamn confusing for me I know it's not confusing at all it's like it's something out there that has 85 percent of the gravity of the universe and we don't know what the hell it is it's not going to be using it's not confusing it's if you don't know what the hell it is it's confusing by Nature okay I have more nuanced definition of confusing confusing is I am confused I don't know how to think dark matter is I don't even know what to think I need something in my head to be confused right dark matter has there's no we don't know what the hell do you anticipate a solution to that or some sort of a sure I want my eyes it in Hawaii I hope I had damned might have been yes telescope had been yeah listen folks it's not the gdt there be the goddamn truth

if the TMT Thirty meter telescope so yes solutions to we you don't know part of the what it is to explore is not knowing what it is that you look at you will find and all these telescopes the launched ones as well as the ground based ones we have enough foresight we're mature enough is a field to know that even though it's designed to look for certain things that were part of the program that you set up for it you want to have a Serendipity mode for it you want to be able to say let's point it in some random Direction and see what shows up without that you could miss something in plain sight if you're only looking for one thing that you think is there extrapolated from what you knew before and the way I think of is you know there's the old saying as the area of our knowledge grows so too does the perimeter of our ignorance hmm

so as a Terry goes to more places to look over the fence and stare into the abyss of ignorance that awaits you

so dark matter is sitting on the other side of the fence now the way I've heard describes the bonfire of our knowledge grows brighter the area of our ignorance is illuminated

okay that I had to think about that yeah similar to what I saw and more things are Youngman if the bonfire is your knowledge yeah that's lighting the way as it grows bigger you go wash it you see more stuff you've never you've never noticed before I get that it's the same principle that's a giant one though man 85% savings to the gravity so yeah it and you add that to the dark energy we know what that is either right Dark Matter Dark Energy comprised 95% of everything that's driving the universe so everything we know and love the chemistry the physics the biology life planets stars is 5% of the universe now so we people of theologians and folks say well maybe God is in the other 95% may be okay yeah may God's dark matter will not be crazy well people say that surprise yeah but I don't know why Dark Matter would care about gay people whether yeah well they're not chicks drive cars

yeah yeah depending which religion he ran right yeah all the religions got they're saying wearing but yeah don't you know I'm God what is think I'm Dark Matter yeah we my the way just in in letters from an astrophysics physicist which isn't out yet but again I don't know how the hell you got the book but it's there there's an entire chapter where I am conversing with people who are strongly religious there's a conversation I have in there with Orthodox Jewish person a Muslim multiple fundamentalist Christians and we're talking with the age of the Earth and why and why do we think one way or another and so that's there's a lot of intimate stuff in there that I generally don't go public with but I would did it one on one with those who had written to me about these challenges they were facing in life and they wanted to know what an astrophysicist had to say about it what's the youngest version of how old religious

and thanks to the Earth is what's the how was the successful years sick that's question yeah Christian well 000 of all not all Christians by the way no no of all religions I don't know the age college is like a month old I guess I don't know enough about how old all the religions think the universe is right the youngest you're going to get the youngest Universe going to get from a devout Christian is 6,000 years the oldest is around 10,000 and but far away from billions Mormons are a unique one because they think you get your own Planet when you die

yeah and what's going on that what I want my own Planet nobody told me that it's odd how one religious group would would comment on how Preposterous another religious groups comments great are I love that you know I was once I don't know if you know this I was once quoted after I think the Scientology documentary came out on HBO and everybody was talking about Owen clear at least I think that was it and there was a lot of chitchat about it for a couple of weeks and one of the news outlets I forgot who

called me up and said do I think Scientology should be a religion

classified as a religion as an authentic religion and you can as well why they calling me why well because in Scientology they're aliens and if there's space beings then travels to give up this information oh sorry so that's how I got brought into this conversation because of the sectors of Scientology that involves space beings okay all right so my answer was

we live in a country that protects the free expression of faith based systems provided they don't subtract from the rights of others so I will not sit here and judge

whether they tens from space exhume Souls from volcanoes at least a third of what I just said is accurate that's from from the Scientology or whether a man born of a woman is the Son of God who died and rose from the dead I'm not going to compare those and judge whether one of them is more authentic than another when they're both founded on belief systems and so in this country belief systems are protected

and we've all bought into that and so you know the headline was Tyson defense Scientology and of course that's how you get clicks that's was the click bait of my comment wanna get clicks you got to distort a little bit there are some rational people who in the comment thread said that's not what he said of course yeah but isn't it more interesting when they do do that and then inside the actual article itself to give your full quote so people can see the deception the real confusing thing is when they take a chunk of your quote and they will contact you take it out of context which they love to do so you don't I just go to jail for that by the way up so that's interesting so for me I'm an observer of that not a complainer about it so is that how they're doing it okay so maybe I can shape this phrase differently to minimize the chance of that happening in the future minimize the chance of you being lied about correct so for me that is a landscape there's some land mines here there is some trap doors here there is something and so for me

one who communicates on that landscape that's just information for me hmm to navigate it slightly more nimbly in the fryer Hmm got it interesting gravity is one thing that I want to hook up on gravity yeah I'm always hooked up on gravity because as you should be well since we've talked last I've been reading a lot about and one of the things that confuses me the most is that we don't really understand what gravity is we know its effects we can measure them we know how to measure them we know what that mass is involved but we don't really know what gravity is there's a similar question in the book but they got a little more philosophical than you just did but they both lean philosophical it's science can describe how gravity works but can they describe why it works can we so this is the how why yeah duality

and allow me to just answer it from a how y point of view then we can apply it to gravity okay after I say that in science if we can describe how something works and predict its future Behavior we claim to understand it and we move on you can ask deeper question about it why is there gravity what is the meaning what is the purpose and go ahead but I'm good with what I've done and I can land a spacecraft on Mars inside of a crater in a hole in one using my understanding of gravity so I'm pretty good with it okay

so I'm not distracted by the more philosophical side of that why does it work okay Einstein so Newton was deeply puzzled by how you can have something called and which he coined the phrase action at a distance okay he wrote down the equation that worked he wants an equation moon goes around the earth goes on the Sun the moons of Jupiter go around Jupiter he

accurately described that with his equations of gravity okay he said one day I think we're going to find some way that they're connecting to each other but I don't know what that is right now but I know my equations work he called it spooky it was spooky to him as his word spooky action at a distance all right fast forward three hundred years

300 no fast forward two hundred and fifty two hundred thirty years get to Albert Einstein

gravity is the curvature of space and time

and you're moving on the curvature of that fabric that's gravity oh my gosh is it even a force then is it even so there's no need to think of it as an action at a distance and in a phrase first uttered by think was John Archibald wheeler a student of Einstein and he learned relativity from John Archibald wheeler effect that's where I met my wife in relativity class and graduate school it's space matter tells space how to curve space tells matter how to move

it moves on the curvature of space you don't need an action at a distance there is no action it no it can't do anything else but do that

it's like you have a funnel and you take a ball and you roll it on the funnel the ball can only do what that funnel tells it to do and it'll Cirque if you give it a sideways motion it'll start spinning around there's no magic hand coming in there it is following the curvature of its space time continuum

this construct that you provided for it so now I can describe what gravity is doing I even have a mechanism for it

are you going to still ask me why is there gravity

is that answered not fulfilling enough to you even in the why Department

because it will why would a particle curve space you can just keep doing that that's fine

but is there a point where Lee where you'll be satisfied with the answer though that answer is my why

I can say well why did this half liter of water drop off the edge here well it's no longer the forces are imbalanced and it's a no but why did it fall well there's nothing holding up why did there's a point where it's not especially productive to continue to think about the world that way

because what I'm claiming is answers to the how

when you understand the how enough

are tantamount to having answered the why question

that's all that's what I'm telling them out in terms of the ability to measure it and accurately use it correct so you can say okay but isn't it you gotta borrow yes we can say well why did you go bald well okay the hair follicles at a when you start in your late 20s and early when you go bald when you start losing your hair probably late twenties early thirties yeah that's the that's common if you have your hair when you're 30 you'll probably have it for the rest of your life that's the how that goes you start losing it up right going up till you're 30 so you can say well the hair follicle begins does not producing the did that keratin whatever we get the explanation then you say well why does the hair follicle stop doing that then you say oh well because the DNA has a pre coded about the hair kind of thing well why does the DNA have the hair well because so right but we know far more about how and why people go bald then we do about what gravity really is correct I'm telling you gravity really is the Curve

of space and time

that gets us the big bang and everything we've ever known or just space and time but it's also based on mass right it's based on the amount of any concentration of matter and energy and or energy will curve the fabric of space and time and The more mass movement of matter on that fabric of space and time we call gravity

and I'm good with that okay but you seem a little oddly defensive about something that scientific

no I have to sound good with the but you you are because you kind of Defending it no you can say well defined doesn't matter you need to know why no huh why they're saying no I'm saying why does matter and energy curve the fabric of space and time you can ask that okay why and I don't have an answer if I can say well that's all I'm asking well nobody wants to what I'm telling you is ok you don't need to know what got you to the point where we had to walk to that point where you're why I got on answered I understand that but before we got to that point I answered otherwise but I'm not disputing that good good so what I'm telling you is that I can answer your why question most of the time but then you'll come back to a point where there's a point where there's the why doesn't have the answer so you say why did it falling say there's a force of gravity operating on it why did fall that way because of the curvature of space and time I'm answering your wise I understand then we'll why does matter and energy curve

space and time okay that's a frontier we're still working on that but that's all I'm asking that's good that's what you are a man of science so you're a person that should probably Embrace wise accept many people ask why questions they're really want to no purpose I'm not asking purpose well then that's something which is furious many other people who ask why questions oh okay I don't think I don't know if this Gap is like Randy why did you bang the table I was angry that purpose there's a purpose behind it that's okay so yeah if you're why is just a curiosity of what's going on that's one thing if you are inquiring about purpose then you get some theological okay because when your theological yeah I'm not then religions give purpose to lightly I'm not doing that right but I just think it's amazing that something that's such a massive part of life on this planet that we stayed glued to the ground because of gravity can you pull up my Instagram account that I only post

you have an Instagram account now as you had a fake one for a while yeah like I told mine actually I know the guy took it over he gave it to you oh do you think I read it yeah no no actually I'm sorry there's one instagram said I right people think this is a real account in it's not can I have it back if it's an account that's an impostor and followers don't know it it's illegal right so so there's there's one that says fan of Neil Tyson yeah and that's a different one okay that's the guy I know so I only post arthouse photos Okay that I've taken most of which I've taken so just scroll down and look for Muscle Beach there it is click on that okay so here's my cat go to my caption Go full screen on that and my cat okay for most of our life on Earth we either resist or succumb to the force of gravity at Muscle Beach gravity losses every time

that's not true I was proud of that caption you know you call me out on that caption that's nonsense gravity never loses gravity doesn't even have like little tiny losses it's not like there's a war gravity losses about those just listening to this so I was at I was in Venice California and the sun was setting behind some guy who's doing who was doing hand-pressed hand presses suspended up on this chin-up bar right and it was really it so it was cool he was silhouetted there's a palm tree there's the beach he's there gravity's going to beat that motherfucker let me tell you eventually but while he is it while he's there he's conquering gravity are you getting too old you haven't conquered gravity lately no I work out all the time I'm not buying it he conquered shit he's pulling Rank and outside work out and you don't because I see your knowledge Man Billy well

when I've talked to other astrophysicists and science where we let me ask are these conversations supposed to have like a theme or purpose or is it just you sit there and just whatever comes your head you send my way you and me yeah well clearly it's just whatever comes my head I don't know you say you don't do that okay that's just episode number to my success is that a threat thing about all the different people that have our yeah of course it's like impossible of course Fighters and scientists and Scholars and crackpots is like a bunch of different people coming through here man I can't have any agenda all right I mean that's probably the only reason why this thing is it's successful as it is but that's a weird one for people that this one thing that is so powerful but what is oh gravity that's a weird one for people yeah I mean it seems like you're frustrated by all the various questions no like no you seem a little little

they're my real quick because I find that I thought you were taking your why to ultimately mean no no purpose if it's just why I'm claiming that many responses to how are also responses to a why hmm that that's that's the point I'm making and I don't like splitting definitions well ultimately understand gravity I think we do that's why we can land things on Mars well we understand we do what that's why your cell phone gets time from GPS satellites that is pre corrected for Einstein's general theory of relativity because they're in a different gravitational field than you in orbit then you are on Earth surface and we got this again angry yeah we got Stein is triumphing we're running short on time here so I set you something that I wanted to ask you what sent you an email did you get that email I did I did he's about a black hole that landed in a mysterious place in our understandings yes yeah so let me let me

give that I'll give the the the sort of Reader's Digest version of this okay okay

there are black holes that are TJ me they're black holes that are formed at the consequence of the death of stars okay okay and we think we understand the formation of stars well enough to say well stars born with this much mass and it'll lose certain amount of mass over so I called Stars lose Mass because there's so much pressure and so much energy coming out of carries particles with it so they lose Mass the sun is losing mass as we speak it's called the solar wind so everybody loses Mass out there the question is at what rate are you losing mass is it a lot compared to your total mass is it small so very high mass stars are not especially stable objects they remain stars for a hundred thousand at most a million years and they'll explode and become a supernova if you're more massive than that they will not explode because the gravity is so strong that it cannot explode against the strength

the gravity and it collapses into a black hole so we expect black holes to have slightly less Mass somewhat less mass than the most massive stars that we know how to make so if you have a hundred times the mass of the sun star it will lose half its mass over its life and you have a black hole that's 30 times the mass of the Sun or 50 times a man sits on fine put a pin in that in the centers of galaxies there are supermassive black holes

hundreds of thousands millions times the mass of the Sun and we call their supermassive and their black holes we call them super massive black holes because that's how we roll as astrophysicists all right well could you have black holes somewhere in the middle of these two extremes we do not know a phenomenon that will give you a black hole that's in between that will birth a black hole that's in between these two these two categories you can make a black hole that eats its way there

fine but we don't know how to make one and we think we my colleagues who've done this think they've discovered a black hole that is sitting in this sort of Netherworld where there's no evidence that it ate to become that massive and we don't know how to explain it by the formation and death of stars and is nowhere near the supermassive black hole in the center of the Galaxy so it is the frontier of research at this moment so it's just a newly discovered type of black hole and it's in a mash regime that this physically impossible you know headlines we're reading the headline now black hole shock the show me the the where this appears Express so this is a British I think they're British this anyhow it's a news Digest for science so black hole shock Theory swirl around the discovery of a physically impossible black hole so scientists don't use the word impossible unless

sits violating a known law of physics so I bet that was a edited editors title and I don't have a problem I don't mind a little bit of sensationalism there you can say it is a black hole that comes from and if it comes from an object it is an object we know nothing about and have yet to discover we're not going to say it's an impossible object mmm every time we point the telescope to the universe we find something that we never predicted or understood and it adds to the knowledge base already have whenever they do discover things and then it becomes what we know and understand like the supermassive black holes at the center of every Galaxy that was a fairly recent discovery in terms of it was kind of surprised because we saw the centers of galaxies were behaving really weirdly things stars were moving faster than they should have given how much gravity was tugging on them and we said dude something's got to be there

and it's got to be really small because we're tracking Stars really close to the middle well if it was made of ordinary matter how big it would have had to be really really big so this has to be really really small in order for this to happen the only thing we know that could fill that small volume and have that much gravity is a black hole so suspected for a long time it was confirmed that as a common thing by the Hubble telescope and first photographed by this recent result in the Galaxy m87 Messier 87 is what it's that's the name of the Galaxy and you can determine how big the black hole is based on the size of the Galaxy we can determine the mass of the black hole by how fast stars are moving at the distance they are from it so in other words so so we're Earth orbiting the Sun and we have a certain speed we're going about forgot how the what 18 miles per second I think that's the number 30 kilometers a second that's our speed around that's a speed around the Sun that's pretty fast okay

if the sun had more mass

instantly that speed is not enough to maintain our orbit it will start spiraling in towards it if the sun had less mass that speed is too high to be in this orbit it'll take it to a sorry it's too fast to maintain this orbit it'll climb us out to a higher orbit slow us down and we'll be in a higher orbit with a slower speed so in other words for any object

at any distance there's only one speed you can maintain and have a stable orbit around it so when we see stars orbiting something in the center of the Galaxy it is a straightforward Astro 102 equation to calculate how much mass the thing is orbiting and you get the mass and you can't see it it's small it's a black hole

and that ladies and gentlemen is the end of the podcast this book will be available when someone comes out in in in October 1st week of October I'm very proud of this book it's my most heartfelt thing that I've ever done well when it comes out I will take a photograph and put it up on the Instagram and the Twitter not everybody know about yeah and it's it's a it also has letters from people in prison a person who just learned that they were had terminal cancer I mean there's a lot of people reaching out responding to letters yes it's me respond and their letters I can't fit all of their letters some are very long tones but most of the their letters in there and all of my correspondences in there so it's my most heartfelt contribution to this universe and StarTalk is still a pot still going still go start talk with Pump It Up and 50 episodes and a television show yes so would but we can see if we can have a new season we don't know yet that's to be announced but we're going through is always a podcast and I we got a

Channel StarTalk YouTube channel and with thinking of branching out into other kinds of educational product that still fun and comedic and the like and I love your support for this because you're also a comedian so you know the value and I love comedians that have their fundamental part of how we deliver science to the public on StarTalk so thanks for for that plug my pleasure my friend dude thank you always good always good thanks bye everybody thank you for tuning into the show and thank you to the new Comedy Central Podcast stand up with Krista Stefano you can subscribe and listen to new episodes of stand up with Krista Stefano every Thursday wherever you listen to your podcast thank you also to movement watches movement also now has ever scroll blue light filtering glasses they have dope sunglasses to they got a lot of cool shit it's an awesome company and they have a wonderful

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