#1330 - Bernie Sanders

Aug 6, 2019

Bernie Sanders is a 2020 Presidential Candidate of the Democratic Party and is currently serving as the U.S. Senator of Vermont. https://berniesanders.com/

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needs no introduction you know him you love him or you don't but either way I do he's a great guy I really enjoyed talking to him give it up for Bernie Sanders

The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by now

one hello Bernie how are you doing wonderful pleasure to meet you nice to meet you it's exciting to have you here man and it's obviously an exciting time for you you know presidential campaign is up in full swing do you do you get frustrated by the the time constraints of the debates absolutely it's you shouldn't even call them with the bait what they are is a

you know reality TV show in which you have to come up with a sound bite and all that stuff it is the meaning it's the meaning to the candidates and it's the meaning to the American people you can't explain the complexity of Health Care in America in 45 seconds nobody can but why is it still done that way if you do try to do let's pull this thing

you know I think the DNC is in a difficult position they have 20-plus candidates they want to give everybody a fair shot which is the right thing to do and then if you can have ten candidates up on the stage what do you do but there are other ways that we've got to do it because the issues facing this country or someone normos and in some cases so complicated nobody in the world can honestly explain them in 45 seconds and then that what encourages people to do is to come up with sound bites of do absurd things of I yelled and scream on the show I took my clothes off we get a lot of publicity right yeah give a thoughtful answer to a complicated question it's not so sexy for the medium we don't even have a chance to give a thoughtful answer like Tulsi gabbard went after Kamala Harris and then Kamala Harris had about 12 seconds to reply to it was so ridiculous to do to have something that's such an important issue did you or did you not put all those people in jail for marijuana did you laugh about it did this happen did that happen all these different things

this was evidence withheld that's how these are a long conversation but it takes us to another issue and that as a nation we do a pretty bad job in analyzing And discussing the serious issues facing our country and I hold the media to some degree responsible for that you know other countries what they do is that he Joe you want to represent it'll tell you what whatever your party in the general election we're going to give you a certain amount of time hours on television and you use those hours anyway you want one or 15-minute discuss remember Ross Perot yes and people used to laugh at Ross Perot because he used to get up there with the chart and all the stuff and an immediate made fun of them but in fact he tried in his own way to explain his point of view to the American people and we need serious discussion on on serious issues well he had the operator because he was so rich he had the ability to buy airtime on network television which is pretty unprecedented he just bought a chunk of air time and then plead his case

you know what goes on in other countries you don't have to buy that time what the obligation is if you are a network you're going to make that time free and available to candidates do you think that that's something that could be viable in America we could you convince CBS and NBC and ABC to go along with something like that no you couldn't convince somebody would have to pass legislation to make that happen but everyone's online today I mean the entire country is essentially getting email and Facebook and all that jazz like why bother doing it in this particular medium that has an inherent time constraint but you're right I mean the internet has revolutionized politics and in many ways good ways we use our social media our email list which is very large we everyday was sending out stuff and other candidates are doing it the same way but television still has a very important role to be playing I'm sure it does but I mean the ability to discuss things in long form like you can do online like you can do right here right now you can't get that

television why'd you could I mean if you had you would have to steal that interrupt you every 15 minutes or so know what I'm saying about is it is and what goes on in other countries if I'm not mistaken I don't hold me to this I think in the UK you remember the Labour party or candidate mmm here's 30 minutes of time and you do with it as you want you want to speak 30 minutes on health care whatever it may be you can do that really yeah and they don't interrupt with commercials oh no that's the Lord that they have given this is the candidates opportunity to speak at length to the people of the country the what what are the misconceptions of you because here's the here's the if you go to the knee-jerk conservative reaction you talk to people who are not interested in anyone that wants to be a Democratic Socialist they hear the name Bernie Sanders the negative implications are that you are somehow or another going to take their money right does that annoying to you yes it is of course it is and also that I missed the Maduro I'm a dictator I'd love dictatorships

that's tough and the truth is Joe that if you look at the issues that I can't paint on it but I believe on they are really not terribly radical they exist in many countries all over the world for example just we can start on health care if you'd like is the idea that Health Care is a human right not a privilege a radical idea I don't think it is it's not and the truth is we are the only major country on Earth many people don't know this we're the only major country on Earth not the guarantee Healthcare to all people as a human right and yet we end up spending almost twice as much per capita on Health Care the function and you can argue with me if you want but the function of the current Healthcare System is not to provide quality care at all it is to make tens of billions of dollars in profit for the drug companies and the insurance companies that's the function

if you go to Canada and I live 15 miles away from the Canadian border you have major heart surgery you're in the hospital for a month do you know what the bill is when you get out zero you got it you go to any doctor you want you don't have to take out your wallet and yet they guarantee Healthcare to all of their people and they spend one half of what we spend that's kind of what I want to do and I don't think that that's terribly radical we have a program now which everybody knows it's called Medicare was started by Lyndon Johnson back in 1965 it is a popular program all that I want to do Over a four-year period is to expand the today eligibility age of 65 want to take it out of 55 45 35 everybody over four year period that's about it and I want to expand benefits to include Dental Care hearing aids and Eyeglasses as well that's about it not too radical that doesn't sound radical all know when you say that they that Canada spends less obviously they have less people you mean less per capita just half per capita exactly capita and the quality of care is as good or better

do they have problems yeah their problems everybody has problems but overall the healthcare experts will tell you the quality of care there is as good or better than it is in our country so what's the hurdle okay I'll tell you exactly what the hurdle is the hurdle is exactly the same thing as in every other aspect of Our Lives it's the power of money all right listen to this over the last 20 years the drug companies alone have spent four and a half billion dollars in twenty years on lobbying and campaign contributions that's what we're up against the knowledge and I mark my words within a short period of time you will see TV ads California all over this country demonizing Bernie Sanders he wants to do this terrible thing to you he wants to do that they have unbelievable amounts of money and politicians are frightened of that power give you one example back in 2016 I got involved here in a little way with an effort

the part of the nurses to control of the cost of prescription drugs in California may recall that effort I do it was a ballad item in one state here in California do you know how much the drug companies alone spent the defeat that epic they spent a hundred and thirty 1 million dollars on one ballon item in one state our last year the top ten drug companies made 69 billion dollars a week ago I went to Canada with a number of Americans who are dealing with diabetes we bought insulin in Windsor Ontario for 1/10 the price 10% of the price same exact product being charged in America so you got drug companies that are engaged in collusion and in price fixing who are incredibly greedy and the result is many elderly people many working people simply cannot afford the medicine they needed this is it's unbelievable and the reason for all of that stuff is we are the only country in the world that does not negotiate with the drug companies they can charge you any price they want and that has to do with the fact that we

have a National Health Care Program Medicare is not negotiating Etc the is this something that can really be implemented inside a for years yes it's an enormous Endeavor well I want you to think back think back Joe in 1965 you had Lyndon Johnson is President and by the way this idea of national Healthcare this has been talked about literally since Teddy Roosevelt Is Not A New Concept Healthcare is a human right this would Teddy Roosevelt was talking about that's what FDR was talking about Harry Truman was talking about it Kennedy was talking about it Kennedy got killed Lyndon Johnson picked up the mantle and end their idea was according to people in their Administration will start with the elderly who are most impacted by by health care costs and sickness will start and they did in 1965 without the technology we have today they implemented Medicare 19 million people elderly people signed up in the first year so if you could start a brand new program

have 19 million people signed up with a technology that is way way behind where we are today why can't we Over a four-year period simply expand that program I don't think it's such a difficult operation so when you talk about the drug companies and the lobbyists and the enormous amount of money that they spend is this does this exist anywhere else other than the United States lobbyists on that level no and the reason you know in Canada what you have is you have a National Health Care Program and so forth and they sit down and they negotiate with the drug companies they have their own approach but every other major country on Earth says the drug companies of course you can't charge us any price you want this is a reasonable price tell me what your profits are with your expenditures are this is a price for us you can walk in you know if you have an illness you could walk into the pharmacy tomorrow and the price has been doubled in you say to the pharmacist what happened he said they just raise their prices they could do it any day they want to any price they want

no lobbyists are in general when people talk about lobbyists and it's an unattractive term we think of it in terms of a negative we don't we don't think of oh thank God there's lobbyists we think wow there's someone with enormous amounts of money using that money to gain influence on politicians and it shapes regular people it shapes Our Lives mostly in a negative way this is the way most people look at I'm not saying it's correct why why do we have that system in place like why do we have lobbies why is it legal for someone to spend an exorbitant amount of money exorbitant amounts of money to affect our civilization to affect the way our culture where are you taking us into a whole new area yeah all right let's look Mark like detour and I'll come back we'll do

today in America

you got three people owning more wealth than the bottom half of the American society you don't see that on television too much of you know you don't three people got the top 1% owning more wealth than the bottom ninety two percent listen to this this is a statistic we recently saw came from the Federal Reserve over the last 30 years the top 1% has seen a 21 trillion dollar increase in their wealth the bottom half of America seen a 900 billion dollar decline in their wealth

so what you have in America today is a relatively small number of incredibly wealthy people and I deal with these guys every day people are always talking about rich you don't know what rich is what multibillion-dollar operations are incredible power over our society and if you want the pharmaceutical industry and last year 10 companies made 69 billion dollars in profit you're sitting around right now saying alright that's great had we do better next year but strategy that we have will be a lot of ads on we're going to work with other during the CNN debate that I participated in recently in the debate right in the middle of the debate the drug companies and the insurance companies had an airhead telling how bad so-called how bad medicare-for-all would be so they are smart guys and they use their power over politicians they use their power over the media they spend billions of dollars on advertising on media to make sure that they make as much as they can in profit but it's not any different with Wall Street it's not any different with the fossil fuel

what the prison industrial complex these guys have wealth they have power and they could care less about the needs of working people in this country and that's the dynamic of American politics right now and in our campaign look we're taking them all on and I know it makes a lot of people uncomfortable but we are taking on all of these entities and all of their wealth and all of their power and that's what a political revolution is about so the real problem seems to be that they have this strategy of unlimited growth not that they're not providing medication that people need to save their lives I mean it's obviously important to have a pharmaceutical company of course of course right so there's good that they provide but the business aspect of it is where the problem lies right look they have great researchers but if you check how they even spend their money you know they will tell you this all of them when he got research to develop we're trying to we're tackling cancer with tackling diabetes Alzheimer's the truth is of course earlier but the bulk of their money is going off

and what we call me to drugs they make modest changes in the drug which really doesn't improve people's well-being in order to make profits so the answer is yes we need obviously vigorous research and development and by the way your tax dollars all of our tax dollars often goes to that research and we don't get the benefit of in terms of lower prices so it's just it's a business model issue exists it's a greed issue you've got it and how would one stop that when you're dealing with this the kind of influence that you talked about with 69 billion dollars in a year I mean the resources they have how would you stop that well that is kind of what we call the $64 question yeah all right and I'll tell you what I think this is what I believe

if you think back on American history and you think about the real changes that have taken place in society you think about the labor movement and working class people standing up and saying to their employers we're not going to be treated like animals anymore you can't hire and fire as you can't work us you know 15 hours a day we deserve dignity and you think about the growth of the labor movement of millions of people beginning to slam together and fight you think about the Civil Rights Movement you know and it wasn't just dr. Martin Luther King jr. it was again millions of African-Americans and their white allies say we're going to end segregation and racism in this country think about the women's movement a hundred years ago women in America didn't even have the right to vote think about the gay rights movement think about the environmental the only way the change takes place is when Ordinary People come together and stand up and fight and say that the status quo is not working

and that's what I believe and that's what we're trying to do so with the the message of our campaign is it's us not me because I can't do it alone let me be very honest with you by our elected president tomorrow I can't do the things that I would like to do that I'm campaigning on unless millions of people were working with me to tell the corporate Elite that they cannot get it all

so how would that be implementing let's say you become president you're going to become president we think we got a shattered it got shot all right president Bernie what do you do you get in there what do you do okay first of all you make a very clear you make it clear to the American people what your agenda is and I appreciate the opportunity to talk about an agenda and in more than 12 seconds i what does that mean all right we're going to fight for Medicare for all we're going to raise the minimum wage to a living wage we are going to deal with education in a profound well you're such a profound way because I worry about what's going on in education today everybody knows that the ages of 0 through 4 are the most important years for human intellectual and emotional development right every psychologist will tell you that and yet we have a totally dysfunctional Early Childhood system you pay we pay our childcare workers starvation wages yet working class families cannot find affordable quality

what are you a child care you got our Public School Systems all around this country in many of them really being challenged right now teachers are underpaid teachers are working two or three jobs you got kids who can't afford to go to college and here's something that is just unbelievable kids who have gone to college leaving school with fifty thousand hundred thousand dollars in debt unbelievable these are issues that we have to deal with and I will deal with them and we are going to substantially improve and the quality of Education America we're going to cancel student debt by imposing a tax on Wall Street speculation artsy got to deal with education you got to deal with climate change you know the truth is that Donald Trump is dead wrong climate change is not a hoax it is a very very dangerous reality for our country and the rest of the world scientists tell us we have less than 12 years to transform our Energy System away from fossil fuel or they will be irreparable damage alright so those are

health care of course for all so those are some of the major issues criminal justice immigration reform you lay it on the table you see these are the issues that we are going to focus on and you rally the American people around those issues and you tell people like Mitch McConnell who represents a very poor state in Kentucky that Mitch if you are going to oppose raising that minimum wage to at least 15 bucks an hour I will be in Kentucky as president of the United States and we're going to have a rally because you're going to have to stop representing and I hope by the way the Mitch McConnell is not the leader I hope the Democrats can gain control over the Senate but if he is we'll put enormous pressure on him to do what the people want every idea Joe here's the bottom line on this thing every idea that I've just talked to you about your supported by a majority of the American people these are not radical ideas let's let's take these one step at a time because you mentioned a lot of important things there let's go with the minimum wage thing now the argument that I've heard about the minimum wage being raised to $15 an hour is that they're in

you level positions for high school kids for people that are just getting their feet wet in the marketplace they're learning how to work the alert they're making some money after school that they that if you charge or if businesses have to pay 15 dollars an hour to people like that to entry level people that they won't be able to stay open well first of all they will be competing against you know if you're a business and I'm a business and both of us have to raise our wages at the same level we both have the same burden so it's right spread across that is what my conservative colleagues will tell you the truth is I don't have the numbers right in front of me that while they certainly is true that young people do work at McDonald's in the minimum wage jobs a significant and majority of the workers are not kids they are often and I'd met them at McDonald's are they are workers who have children themselves when we worked very hard to raise the minimum wage and

was on and at Disney we put pressure on both of those companies and they did the right thing and when you talk to the people that Amazon who got that raise these are not kids these are people in their 30s these are these are ordinary adults who cannot make it on 12 or 13 bucks an hour so I think the argument that oh they're old kids is not really quite accurate well not even that all they're all they're all kids but that if they are kids what would you think about making a minimum wage for someone who is under 18 that's different from a minimum wage with someone who's a legal adult I'm not I'm not for that I think we do it and look at many of these young people don't have their own needs I just talked to a young woman last night who is working going to college working full time trying to take care of her family as well so I think look the minimum wage has not been raised in 10 years it is now $7.25 an hour which is clearly unacceptable the cost of housing California or

this country is rising fairly rapidly people can't afford health care hmm can't afford College I don't think it's asking our employers too much to pay at least $15 an hour minimum which now I'm glad you brought up Amazon's the one of the things that always freaks me out is when I find out that enormous corporations that make billions of dollars have tax loopholes where they literally pay no money how is that possible and how do you stop that well it's the same thing as the drug companies how is it possible that we pay ten times more for insulin in this country and for other drugs than the you want to encounter or countries around the world mmm and the answer is its power so what is what is the goal

of major corporations in America it's the be deregulated as much as possible so in some cases they can pollute our water our air our environment it's also not the pay any taxes and Trump campaign is what we call he said my tax plan is not going to benefit the wealthy it's going to benefit working people Well turns out over 10 years 83% of the benefit at the end of 10 years goes to the top 1% that's what these guys that I remember I'm the call the ranking member on the budget Committee in the Senate and some guy came forward representing I don't know one of the big business organizations and this is their agenda their agenda was to cut Social Security Medicare and Medicaid and to do away with all corporate taxes so what you have right now that's that's what greed is about they wanted all so as you indicated you have a company like Amazon owned by Jeff Bezos who happens to be the wealthiest guy in America worth of a

Jordan 50 billion Amazon paid zero in federal income taxes and it's not just them dozens of Corporations paid nothing or very very little and on top of all of that you got these guys able to stashed all over the world and trillions of dollars trillions of dollars in the Cayman Islands

in Bermuda and Luxembourg and of the tax Havens that is insane and that has got to end yeah how is it legal to do that why is it legal Joe it is legal because they make the laws right all right you know that is what here you're touching now on the heart and soul of the tragedy of American politics how does it happen that on issue after issue the American people the working class of this country want something nobody pays any attention to it but billionaires want something and it gets done and that has to do with a corrupt

political system so right now if you are the Koch brothers are some multi-billionaire you say to the leadership of the Republican party and in some cases the Democratic money hey guess what we're prepared to put hundreds of millions of dollars in the UK made hundreds of millions of dollars coming from one or two people and here is my agenda I want tax breaks I want to trade system which will enable me to shut down in this country and go to China or Mexico and pay people there to Bucks an hour I want to be able to do more pollution because I don't like all of this you know money I have to spend preventing pollution of the air or the water that's what I want you to do and by the way I'm worried about the deficit so you may as well cut Social Security Medicare and Medicaid how many Americans actually believe that we should give tax breaks to billionaires and cut Social Security Medicare and Medicaid very few that is pretty talk to Mitch McConnell get Mitch on the show that is exactly what he believes but that's ridiculous right and it seems that

if you just took away those tax breaks the enormous amount of money that would come from those corporations having to pay their fair share would take care of lot of the expenses of all these things that you're proposing exactly how like okay let's talk about the education because the idea of free education is wonderful thing for people I mean the idea that you get out of college and you're in debt in an insane amount that you might have 10 20 years we have to pay it back and I know many people that are injured soldier of people who are getting their Social Security checks garnished right now it's not 10 to 20 years it's some cases it's literally a lifetime now a lot of that is

I mean it's got to in some way be preventable by what we're talking about here absolutely and is that how you would pay for it I mean how would you tell you exactly how I would pick okay okay and we pay for every idea that we have we pay for and we pay for it by understanding that today we have massive levels of income and wealth inequality and we have many cases the wealthy and large corporations paying nothing of her little in taxes here is the issue in terms of Education 40 50 years ago you were an average American working class person you graduated high school

especially if there was a union around you can go out and get a job and making it to the middle class you could own your own home you could send your kids to school you lived a pretty good life made it in the middle class

forty or fifty years later there's an explosion of Technology there's a growth in unfettered free trade and it is clear now that most people to make it into the middle class are going to need a higher education that's college or maybe it's Technical Training in order to become a skilled worker

it is insane to me to deny Working Class People and lower-income people the opportunity to get that education because the cost of college has sought so all that I say is that a hundred plus years ago the American people said that we should have free public education I went to a public school my parents didn't pay a nickel went to kindergarten I went through the 12th grade pretty good education in Brooklyn New York all that I'm saying is the world has changed and high school degree is not good enough anymore so expand that concept through college now guess what 50 years ago do you know how much the University of California very great University cost in terms of tuition how much virtually free

what's it now I don't know but it's pretty high it is Hearts thousands and thousands of dollars so you had great universities like the University of California City University of New York state colleges all of this country with tuition was virtually free and then what happened for a variety of political reasons States and the federal government started cutting back on higher education and put more and more burden on the student with higher and higher tuition which is where we are today so all I'm saying is in the year 2019 2020 if our working-class kids are going to go out and get the jobs that are out there they need a they need a higher education which should be tuition free in terms of the cancellation of debt which is my view you got 45 million people who are dealing with that I'll never forget this is where I really hit me I was in Burlington Vermont and had a meeting on an issue and a young woman comes up and she says she's a doctor she graduated medical so she's very happy she's

practicing the community health center loves what she's doing said burner gotta tell you though I am $300,000 in debt popping on to medical school I couldn't believe it I was in Iowa a young woman $400,000 in debt This Is Not Unusual for medical schools and and dental schools and you know Ordinary People fifty thousand hundred thousand dollars were going to college or getting a master's degree we promised these young people he said go to college go out and get an education you get decent paying jobs well the answer is they have not been able to do that so what we have proposed in one piece of legislation or to actually is to make public colleges and universities tuition-free cancel all student debt in this country that will cost two point two trillion dollars a lot of money over a 10-year period we do this through a tax on Wall Street speculation which will bring in two point four trillion dollars we bailed out Wall Street 11 years ago and by the way these are crooks on Wall Street who engaged in illegal Behavior taxpayers

against my vote bail them out if we can bail out Wall Street you know what we can cancel student debt and provide public colleges and universities tuition free when you say a tax on Wall Street speculation what exactly do you mean it will be a tax on all of the tree every sale of attacks you people buy and sell stocks and bonds all of them we have a very modest tax on it and by the way it will have an impact on speculation by cutting back on the high frequency trading which we now see so you would just there is there's no current tax on Direct so you would put a small amount and that would do the job that would that would raise more than enough money it's a very small tax it exists a small how much it depends on the nature of the transaction but it's less than one half of one percent really yeah and that we covered yeah because the amount of stocks being sick bod and so and this is not again a new idea it's being done in countries all over the world what about here's one of the darkest things about student loans is that if

go bankrupt it doesn't matter you still owe that and that that's kind of crazy I mean if you have like a serious medical issue if you're held up whatever whatever happens you that's awful you go bankrupt most of those things are resolved but not student loans right I'm gonna get this looks to the end that has to do with bankruptcy law which was passed against my vote and while you're on bankruptcy and I should have mentioned this before when you talk about the Healthcare System a half a million Americans every single year go bankrupt because of medical bills of the campaign but you're right with students I talked to this guy in Nevada never forget it because it's Bernie you know I'm open mics guys in his 50s and he said you know I I've been paying off my student debt for years I'm going nowhere because the interest rates are high and I feel very much which is the case that they will start garnishing taking away my Social Security checks taking money away from me so people are carrying this burden

the result is that they can't in many cases get married and have kids they certainly can't buy a home they can't buy a card they are really crushed by this debt and what was the crime what did they do they try to get a higher education I think that's pretty crazy and a lot of them when they do this higher education they're 18 years old imagine making a decision when your brain is not even fully formed it's going to affect you for the rest of your life you've got it exactly right and you talk to these kids so how much debt do you oh what kind of interest rates your pinky I really don't know they just told me to sign up him it's all right

now right now we are a week not even a week out just a few days away from to mass shootings in a row and whenever these things happen there's all these people that want action but nobody knows exactly what to do there's calls for gun control there's calls for mental health reform there's calls for mean what if anything can be done to stop these things from happening and how have you sat down and tried to come up with some sort of a solution and is there a solution look I would be lying to you if I told you I had a magical answer

I don't

and this is such a horrific situation I you know we were in you know we had a town meeting we're in a batter actually in Las Vegas when El Paso happened and we'd better tell me and I said okay let's take a moment of silence to remember the victims and pray for the survivors literally the next day another part of Las Vegas I had to do it again and I said I can't believe that just yesterday we did this I have to do it again

this is I don't know what the words my friend bait or Rock was a good see you don't know what words what can you say it happens again and again who can imagine some lunatic walking into a school or a mall or just on a nightclub area and taken out an assault weapon and shooting down people

and that we almost become to accept this as a normal part of American life is is incredible is is just totally demoralizing alright so here's what I think there's no magical answer and but let me tell you what I think first of all this is the reality

the reality is that today as we speak there are approximately 400 million guns in America today we have more guns than we have people

we have between 5 to 10 million assault weapons and an assault weapon as you know is a military style weapon designed to kill human beings kind of rapidly so that's and then on top of that we have again nothing to be proud of but you know we have a number of mentally unstable people people for whatever reason a walk in the streets they're suicidal the homicidal that's the mix that we have I think the answer is and I'm not the guy to invent all these ideas but here's some of what we have to do first of all

if you want own a gun in America

you have got to do we have got to know that you are a stable person and that means that we need to expand the background checks that currently exist okay so we got to know did you beat up your wife have you committed crimes etc etc what is the state of your mental health number two we got to make that Universal number two right now that there is a background check if you walk into a gun show it does look into a gun shop but you can buy guns in various States at a gun show and you don't have to do any of that as are you and I go to a gun show you something a gun I don't have to and you know I don't have to do that third of all I can't today legally walk into a gun show pass the background check and buy a Dozen guns walk out and sell them to criminal elements who will use them for bad things

so I think those are issues that most Americans believe we have got to deal with and we can fourthly I happen to believe and I believe this for 30 years that we should not be selling with Distributing assault weapons in this country they are weapons of mass destruction in a sense they kill people rapidly as we saw Aaron and thank God by the way when we talk about both Dayton and El Paso thank God cops were there very very quickly and did an incredible job because of that guy had walked into the nightclub that could have been dozens and dozens more people killed and within a few minutes time I happen to believe a that we should not be selling or Distributing an assault weapons in this country that's my view period so I believe in a ban on assault weapons and I think we have got to begin thinking about when we have five to ten million assault weapons which is more than the US military has we have to think about a strong licensing procedure

in terms of who owns these assault women so that's some of what I think there are many other things but those are some of the ideas that are out there now the legal gun owners who are law-abiding citizens who would never in a million years think about going around shooting people but they love guns they hear this kind of stuff about like Banning assault rifles Banning assault weapons they don't even like the term assault weapons right they like to refer to them as their individual names for whatever they are these people feel like this is an inexorable part of being an American the you should be able to own a gun it's written into our Bill of Rights is written into our the the way we way this country was founded it's the second amendment what do you say to those people that don't that don't want to give up their guns but it wouldn't do and they want to protect themselves they feel like these guns are viable options to protect themselves from criminals

I understand that and Joel do you may know him a senator from the state of Vermont and the state of Vermont is one of the most rural states in America every form that whole thousands and thousands of people are out in the woods hunting and it's something that's part of our tradition I believe in it I believe in the Second Amendment

but all that I ask of the Gunners and you're absolutely right 99.9 percent of gun owners would never in a million billion years think of doing these horrible things but in the moment that we are living in I think that we are all going to have to make you know some concessions to the reality of what is going on in that is that there is a small number of column what you want to pray for people who are prepared to do that you know in Australia you remember that herbal New Zealand I'm sorry they the terrible shooting at the mosque and they move pretty quickly in an aggressive way so

you know I wish I can say in the best of all possible worlds yeah you know you can own any weapon you want and so forth and Son we're not living in the best of all possible worlds with living in a world where we shocked every day by Hara awesome I agree we are living in a terrible situation I mean there's hundreds of mass shootings a year now which is insane and if you look at the number and comparison to the rest of the world it's crazy like a big one in other countries like three mass shootings in a year we had more than 270 it's crazy but how would you implement something like this well the idea of banning assault weapons has been done in 1994 we banned assault weapons I believe I believe it was for 10 years that ban was undone by Republican majority and it didn't you know I'm not suggesting by the way than anything here that the afib and assault weapons tomorrow that would radically change everything but we have got

to do the best that we can do and again I preface my remarks by telling I don't have a magical solution you got hundreds of millions of guns out there you have people who should not be owning these guns who get set off by God knows what and and do terrible things all we can do is the best that we can do but to say we can't do anything I think is a real disservice to the American I'll tell you something else that bothers me you know in addition to the horror of seeing people lying on the street dead is what this is doing to the children of this country and I think we underestimate that I have seven grandchildren and in for them and for kids will love this country you're going to see The Falls coming kids going back to school you're going to see in schools All Over America drills are this is what you do if somebody walks into the school all right you're gonna hide under here you go over there

kids are a couple of months ago I was in Iowa is curious about six foot two big guy probably a football player and he says Senator Sanders I got to tell you that the young people in my school are increasingly frightened terrified about what could happen in the school think about what this the trauma the trauma of what this gun violence is doing so I think we're all good is Americans they ain't no easy answers here by they were all going to have to come together and figure this one out and do the best that weekend now would that mean forcibly removing these guns from people's homes and I don't think you're going to have the FBI knocking on somebody's doors and taking that that's not what we do in America you don't if we have four hundred million guns already out there and I building more every year right now as we speak gun manufacturers or make money manufacturers are making more guns this is happening right now so if those guns already exists there's more than enough oh yeah how would you stop well again I think

you know I do think there should be a ban on assault weapons so that means that manufacturers would not be able to produce or sell those weapons to American citizens but not the military obviously and obviously Graham okay so you know and your point is well-taken if you have four hundred million guns out there you know so I think there are approaches no one has any magical solution but I've given you I'll tell you something else that I didn't mention and that is the role of gun manufacturers is that if you are a gun manufacturer and you are selling a hell of a lot of guns to a gun store in an area which normally you would not think I mean these guys know you know what cities by What towns by how many guns and if suddenly there is a tremendous demand you got to be thinking and being why is this why is this constant or buying so many guns doesn't reflect the population in the area you got to deal with that issue with a gun owners of have to take some responsibility

besides the gun the gun manufacturers I'm sorry besides the guns and gun manufacturers the other gigantic issue is mental health the only way any of this ever happens is someone has to be insanely mentally depraved this the only way and many of them are medicated and many of them are on pharmaceutical drugs and they have been since they were children including amphetamines like Adderall and Prozac and all this different stuff that has varied effects on the human brain what could be done what would you done to analyze this to find out what the cause and effect are and to try to figure out what we're what role and how much these drugs are responsible oh couple two things let me response respond first by saying that goes without saying that we have a mental health crisis in America before we even talk about drugs

and for whatever reason you know there are a whole lot of people in the nature of our Healthcare System getting back to health care is I just talked to a woman literally last night and we had a town meeting

and she said this is unbelievable she said

Bernie I was in Las Vegas when the terrible shooting took place okay and now I am and I can understand this perfectly I'm seeing dating that I'm seeing watching television El Paso and I'm getting a PT PS PTSD reaction all right now and let's totally under if you were in a place where people were shot down and she said I'm trying to get counseling I can't find it I remember a guy called up a woman called a my office in Burlington Vermont and she said I'm worried about my husband what he my brother was his brother what he might do to himself or somebody else we're looking for mental health counseling we can't find something that we can afford so we need above and beyond gun violence we need an it's why I believe in Medicare for all mental health is Healthcare you break your arm that's a health issue in something that's a medical issue mental health is a medical issue and we have got to make mental health counseling

available to all people in this country when they need it not six months from now at a price they can afford in under Medicare fraud would be free so that's number one number two your point about studying the impact of drugs on people's behavior and possibly resulting in violence absolutely deserves to be studied we should be studying the impact of drugs in my view this is a Layman's view you know I'm not a psychiatrist I worry very much that we are over medicating kids in schools you know we have this deficit that deficient issue you know kids are running around in their active you know what I was a kid people used to run around Labor Act if you know it wasn't they weren't drugged up so I worry about that whole business but your point is well taken I think we need to study this issue and make sure that these drugs in fact are not causing kinds of reactions that we will regret later

no on the subject of drugs marijuana is obviously a big issue in this country and we've seen many states make it recreational including this one what do you think could be done and what should be done to have this across the board especially federally you know there's a guy that I have on the podcast coming up soon as name is John Norris and he wrote a book on the cartels growing marijuana illegally all over this country and selling it especially particularly in California now because it's a misdemeanor because it's legal recreationally and selling it with all sorts of horrible pesticides on it all sorts of like very in fact deadly chemicals all of this because it's not federally legal because we can have sanctioned license companies doing an ethical job of growing something that any responsible law-abiding person should be able to consume

okay um let me say this when I ran for president for the Democratic nomination in 2016 I talked about a broken criminal justice system which ends up having in the United States more people in jail than any other country we have more people in jail than China does which is a communist authoritarian country

and what I call for then and I call for now is the legalization of marijuana in America right now you have a federal law called the controlled substance act he has heroin here is marijuana they're at the same level that is insane heroin is a killer drug you can argue the pluses and minuses of marijuana but marijuana 8 heroin so we have to end that and that's what I will do as president of the United States I believe we can do that through executive order and I will do that second of all what we have now is a number of states and I'm very proud I talked about during 2016 what seemed kind of radical the need to legalize the decriminalized marijuana very radical idea for years ago it is spreading all over the country and by the way it blows my mind the drive through Nevada I think here even California see signs corporations by our marijuana yeah if four years ago people getting arrested you're doing that right their lives being destroyed particularly Nevada there was life sentences given out in the 70s

can you believe that and now you have corporations selling the damn product that people went to jail for so I think ultimately in a we've got to legalize marijuana and what's good news in a sense is some Community some cities are expunging the records so if you were arrested have a criminal record for selling marijuana that is being expansion that is the right thing to do you know we can argue about the pluses and minuses I'm not a great fan of drugs other people you know I smoke marijuana a couple of times didn't do much for me other people are guests have different in just a couple times that's her true it didn't do much for you yeah maybe crazy getting it was in Vermont know that that's the problem maybe yeah I do something for you well big beak off a whole lot alright but I got the other people have had different experiences correct sure yeah I certainly have the other problem is of course with illegal drugs comes you get this horrible cycle particularly in inner

these where you have people that are incarcerated for illegal drugs illegal drugs seem to be the only way out the hard drugs when we're talking about cocaine and all these other drugs how does one stop that and would you ever consider legalizing all drugs or decriminalizing now all drugs not at this point no I wouldn't but you're touching on a real tragedy yes and

when we talk about criminal justice in America we have over 2 million people in jail they are disproportionately African-American Latino and Native American and here's what I think I think in the wealthiest country in the history of the world what we have got to do instead of building more jails and lock it up more people we really do have to invest in our young people especially young people in distress communities was that mean if we can and we can do this with the proper amount of resources make sure the kids are not dropping out of school if you drop out of school today you know so you drop out in your second or third year of high school you don't have an education you don't have any job skills what are you gonna do with your life and the answer is you may well do drugs you know what you'll get in trouble self destructive activity or destructive activity and end up in jail it makes so much more sense from a Humane perspective protecting our people as well as a financial situation was spending eighty billion dollars yet

invest in these kits what does it mean it means making sure they get the education that they need paying attention having good schools making sure that they get the jobs that are out there doing job training there was a principal in a school in southern Vermont on never forget what she said was a working-class school and she said burning I love these kids I am not gonna let them drop out and she had a mentoring program just watching the kids who are mostly at risk so that they would not end up going through the cracks and getting into trouble that's what we should be doing as a nation and when we do that we invest in the kids we get them jobs we going to education the likelihood is the got the likelihood of them falling into bed ways is significantly reduced the all those things sound great the uncomfortable reality about drugs though is that when drugs are illegal criminal sell them and there's obviously a need for drugs in terms of not necessarily need but a demand for drugs is a demand for drugs in this country that's absolutely fueling Mexican cartels and illegal drug

inside this country mean there's there's a lot of that how do you how do you curb that if drugs are illegal what you're raising a deep question yes alright so the question is centrally that you're asking is what is the cause of the opioid epidemic yes that's one that's one hour whatever but the opioid epidemic is interesting because there's so much of it that's coming legally right that's not another part tells that's the pharmaceutical industry right but you the heroin is illegal yes all right now you're asking this is a very very deep question which we don't talk about terribly much

why is it that so many of our people are turning to drugs to alcohol by the way and I don't mean a drink tonight but I mean serious alcohol problems and tragically to suicide

we now have for the last three years something that is a historical never happened before

in modern history and that is our life expectancy is actually going down and this is hitting all over the country but especially hitting rural areas and what the doctors are saying is that these odd diseases of Despair despair so you're in West Virginia here in rural Ohio or a place per month any place

and the job you used to have earning a decent living is now in China

your kid can't afford to go to college maybe you can't afford health care

you got nothing to look forward to under that scenario frogs become alcohol becomes a way out and the worst-case scenario is suicide so I think what we're talking about is why is this happening as often in rural areas in urban as well and how can we how can we re-establish hope and optimism in the American people and that gets back to all lot of other issues it means if people have health care is a right that will certainly play a role in this thing that Walker to the doctor when they need but it also means that people need decent jobs that pay them a living wage that means we have to rebuild Rural America we have to rebuild a depressed communities in urban America it means that we have to have a great educational system

and people say oh that's great Bernie that's utopian it is not utopian this is something that in the wealthiest country in the history of the world we can afford and we should be doing rather than giving as creating a situation where Amazon pay zero in federal income taxes so to answer your question is a deep question and again I'm not here to tell you I have all the answers but there are a lot of people out there who have basically given up hope and for those people I guess drugs is is the alternative so what you're saying essentially is that if we can do something to mitigate despair then we'll do something to at least stop some of the demand for these these illegal I believe that is the case look if I am optimistic if I'm excited about going to work tomorrow and I'm seeing my kid doing great in school and you know when I get sick I can go to the doctor's office that have a sense of community my downtown is not all boarded up because businesses of left but we have a we have a community yeah the like the strong likelihood is there will be less the diseases of Despair and drugs than we currently think

now when we're talking about impoverished communities and chronically when you're talking about cities like Baltimore parts of Chicago and Detroit that have just been in a terrible state of despair for long periods of time and it doesn't seem like there's a way out the people that are born they're the people that live there they live in this state of of Despair what what can be done to resolve all of these terribly impoverished communities and bring them up to a standard where these kids that grow up there they feel like there is an out that they do have an opportunity and why is this not addressed when we talk about making America great wouldn't like fixing the worst parts of the country be the primary concern the less people that grow up in a terribly disadvantageous position from birth wouldn't that be an important thing and what can you do to resolve that well trouble I think you you know you said it better than I can I think you're right you know

we talk about what it means to live in a great society a great nation a nation that we're proud of I'm afraid there are some people who have incredible wealth and power so you know what's great is that we're seeing a growth in the number of billionaires in America isn't that terrific and we got one guy who's worth a hundred and fifty five billion dollars how great oh by the way we're building more nuclear weapons and we're spending seven hundred and fifty billion dollars a year on the military isn't that extraordinary and by the way you see the yacht that billionaire has you know it's three miles long isn't that great your point is that we have to I think as I understand what you're saying we have to redefined what being a great nation is about we are not a great nation when we have 40 million people living in poverty and in despair we're not a great nation when we have massive levels of income and wealth inequality when 87 million people can afford to go to a doctor today

so they answer your question I think that as a nation we have got to focus a great deal of attention on those distressed communities often they're African-American often they're Latino often they are rural white communities and that means making sure that the kids they get the quality education that they deserve making sure that we're creating good paying jobs in those communities I voted against NAFTA permanent normal trade relations with China and other trade agreements because I knew that those agreements were written by Corporate America with the goal of shutting down plants in this country and moving abroad and the result of that has been the loss of millions of good-paying jobs and the the complete destruction of communities all across this country in the South and all across this country so we have got to rebuild those communities we have got to bring high-tech jobs not just to Silicon Valley but to Rural America again

I don't have magical answers but the goal is we will not under a Sanders Administration turn our backs on distressed communities we will rebuild those communities we will build the millions of units of affordable housing that we need not think about what it means to a community now where people are living in terrible housing or housing they cannot afford when we put young people to work rebuilding their own communities will that become a an indication of Hope and optimism I think it will we're talking about so many deeply important issues and all of them that will be under the control or at least of the direction of the one person who winds up becoming the president I'd states is it a impossible job I mean it seems like being the president you are managing so many different aspects of our economy our culture our safety our environment International Communication and it's so it's

so in depth how does one person do a job like that well one person doesn't do it and you certainly don't do it by tweeting every other day major policy issues I think he tweets a lot more than every other day you know what you do and this is the way any saying president operates is you need to be working with the smartest men and women from all walks of life who understand these issues every issue we have touched on Joe is enormously complicated and I can send out a you know 20 word tweet on it but that doesn't solve it so unlike Trump you know we will bring together the best and most knowledgeable people in this country to address the housing crisis to address the issue of these diseases of Despair we didn't even touch on climate change you know and then the future of the planet had a we lead the world in Transforming Our Energy System in creating the kind of jobs that we need how do we Revitalize American democracy so that instead of suppressing the vote we're getting more young people

involved in the political process so to answer your question it is not a one-person job and anyone who thinks it is is that wrong you need the help of a very strong Administration that knows the issues that comes from the ranks of the working class and this is the promise I will make our Administration on like Trump's is not going to be filled with billionaires who's you know basically very often greedy Thai people who it is going to be filled with the best people often from the working class itself from the Trade union movement people who are going to help us create policies that work for workers and not just the billionaire class now we're getting to the end of your our here so climate change is obviously an enormous issue for our country and for the world what what could be done and what do you think you can do as president that can somehow another slow down this this process

first of all we have to have a president who unlike Trump believes in science and I do

and what the scientists are telling us as I mentioned earlier is that we have fewer than 12 years to transform our Energy System or else they will be irreparable Damage Done not only our country but to the world now climate change is not just an American issue so we could do tomorrow do all the right things but of China and Russia and India and rest of the Brazil and Africa does not do the right thing you know we're not going to make the progress we need so here is what we have to do in my view number one we have to tell the fossil fuel industry that they're short-term profits and they make a whole lot of money their short-term profits are not more important than the future of this planet I don't think that's a hard sell to make you cannot keep producing a product which is destroying the planet in the United States and around the world so by saying that you're saying you would have to move a we would have to move consciously away absent fossil fuels know if so let's and maybe and if we do that how do you tell the fossil fuel companies

to tell them you can't sell fossil fuels anymore there are a variety of ways to do that but that is the bottom line and by the way in the midst of that we do what we call is a just transition

the guy out on the oil rig today simply wants to feed his family in the coal miners today want to feed their families and we're not going to leave them I'm a pro worker of the probably the strongest pro-worker record of any member of the Congress it is not my intention to throw these guys out on the and women out on the street and ignore the pain that they will go through we are proposing billions of dollars to rebuild those communities and make sure that those guys and women get new jobs so we're not just discarding people in the fossil fuel industry but ultimately the product that they are producing which is now called an emissions is destroying the planet so we have to move away from fossil fuel in a very bold way into Energy Efficiency right now in my own state of Vermont and all over this country there are buildings which are incredibly wasteful we don't have the windows we don't know the insulation we don't have the roofing the doors that we need to keep the building's warm in the winter and cool in the summer

and we can create just an incredible number of jobs just retrofitting our buildings second of all we need to move very aggressively to sustainable energies like wind and solar in California doing a good job with wind I was doing the job Texas doing a good job we got to do much more solar there is incredible potential out there price of Solar has dropped in recent years and we have got a not only transform the energy system in our own country we got to lead the world in working with Russia and China because in this issue we are in it together and here's my dream and maybe this maybe a utopian dream the world right now is spending a trillion and a half dollars on weapons of Destruction designed to kill each other and maybe just maybe if we had a kind of leader and I hope to be that leader who says to the world instead of spending a trillion and a half dollars killing each other maybe we'll use those resources to transform the global Energy System and save the planet for our kids and our grandchildren that's the golden I

well these these ideas sound great but in the competitive environment of global politics how would you convince Russia or China or any of these countries to do something that would put them in some sort of a competitive disadvantage well in the answer is Joe if we do not do that in fifty a hundred years everybody's going to be right terrible this event and look I'm not you know I'm saying yeah I'm not telling you that tomorrow it's going to happen but you got to make the case these people you know Putin is a dictator I dislike him intensely you know chi in China very authoritative cell phones up but they're not crazy people and presumably they have concern about their kids and their grandchildren this is a planet Under Siege and I don't want to become a science fiction you've all seen the movies of the media racing toward Earth were to blow up the Earth what do we do well we got to get together this isn't a sense what that is about you know what I think about in 1941

after Pearl Harbor all right we were faced with a war in the East with China a war in the West in Europe with Hitler within two years the United States had transformed its economy to address and win the war basically in two or three years by re industrializing Murr we can do it we can lead the world that's what we have to do so in your eyes we have to look at the economy almost as if the same kind of threat or excuse me the environment is if it's the same kind of threat as Nazi Germany and act together look if you asked the defense department you asked the CIA you ask the defense people all over the world tell us what the great national security threat is you know what it is it is climate change there's a lot of people that are skeptical that's how would you convince that I mean this is a big part of the problem right there's a gives a narrative that you hear from a lot of people that oh you know climate change is not a proven science and climate change is a hoax and I mean this is something that's repeated over and over again and I'm sure some of it has to do with lobbyists and

some of it has to do with the merchants of doubt that go out there and see the world with disinformation to try to increase their profits and continue the practices that they're currently enjoying you know Joe what I'm thinking back I don't know folder you listen is it remember this because mold of the most but I can remember tobacco and cigarette ads on television yes dr. guy dressed in a white truck smoking away this is a great cigarette it'll improve your health they lied the tobacco industry knew exactly what was going on and the fossil fuel industry is lying right now and the president of the United States is either too stupid to understand what the scientists are telling us or he is lying as well climate should look I am not the scientists there's not my idea I listened to the scientists the debate is long over climate change is real my God look at what's happening around the world he the worst July was the I think the warmest July who are warmest month in the modern history of the world the Artic ice is melting

heat waves in Europe all right just look out the window at what's going on so this is not Bernie Sanders talking this is the scientific Community climate change is real it will only get worse if we do not act boldly to cut carbon emissions

well we just did an hour sir so I'm going to let you go because I know you got very important things to do one last question if you got into the office and you found out something about aliens

if you found out something about UFOs would you let us know well tell you my wife would demand that I let you know is your wife a UFO not like she's got two UFOs know which is birdie what is going on you have any access to rickets and you don't have any access I don't know don't know okay you let us know though all right I'll be on the ship will doubts at all the show how these all right thank you sir appreciate your time Joe thank you very very much

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