#1282 - Adam Conover

Apr 17, 2019

Adam Conover is a stand up comedian, writer, and television host. He is the creator and host of the show "Adam Ruins Everything" on truTV.

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comedian and the host of Adam ruins everything please give it up for the great and hilarious Adam Conover

The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by now

hey thanks for having me thanks for being here man appreciate it I'm a giant fan of your show I really appreciate it I love the fact that it annoys people to it really pisses people off that's the goal pretty much you know I mean I'm not the kind of person where I'm like if you're pissing people off you're doing something right but there's some truth to there's some truth to that and also the way you structured the name I mean I know if you came up with the name of it but Adam ruins everything I think I might have to give that to my to my former boss Samurai shh CollegeHumor might have might have I think we came up with the name together he might have been the first person to say it but yeah thank you I'm really I'm yeah I like lets you know it lets you know that hey this is going to know you a little bit but like I'm going to be telling you shit that you don't want to hear that's going to make everything a little bit worse you know but at the end of the day it makes it better it's an optimistic show at the end of the day we're sure yeah yeah you give them the truth I think that yeah I mean the thesis of the show is that it's always better to know the truth that it's a momentarily uncomfortable but hopefully for most people 99% of people who watch the show it grinds your gears a little bit to find out something

I thought that was true with the ACT crap you know but then at the end we show you why you're actually better off knowing that thing and you're always better off knowing the truth in my view in my view as well yeah is was there ever and it was a one episode that stands out as being one that people got the most upset about ha ha ha there's a bunch of them I mean people get people get upset with us for a lot of different reasons we did one about how breastfeeding isn't better than formula-feeding it's you know they're both like formula feeding is fine you know and if the problem is formally feelings become a stigma to stigmatize now and there's a lot of people who can't breastfeed or who for medical reasons you know and the fact is that form formula is like a scientifically proven wonderful way to feed a baby and if you know someone's choice or need is to do that there's no reason to stigmatize and we go through all the reasons that that that's the case and yet people get a little you know there's a lot of people who sort of have an ideology about that you know and don't want to hear the truth about it

we did one about trophy hunting animals about how because people young people get so mad oh look at this guy shot a lion right and the truth is that in some countries not a hundred percent the time but in some countries they are effectively using trophy hunting as a way to to protect the animals because you know that's how they're able to sort of like monetize you know in that place and you know get money coming in in order to protect the animals and they're very specific and strategic about it and it can be part of a good you know sort of animal management you know strategy and it's being used to some success you know and yeah people don't want to hear that right it's still really hard that's a weird one to me and I hunt yeah that that the whole the whole Lion and elephant thing like right whoo that's a weird one they know what they can do is they can say okay well we've got these elephants one of these elephants is an old male that's like killing the other elephants right and if

we organize these hunts where you got to pay half a million dollars for the right to even go in there does that happen with old male elephants I know it did that was the issue with that giraffe that number that woman that got in trouble know that specific case yeah there was a there was a woman who got in trouble because she shot this really beautiful giraffe it was really dark and unusually coloured and it was dark because it's very old the older the giraffe apparently the males get really dark is really cool looking but she shot it and everybody went crazy on the internet because you know she was posing and smiling with his Dad rap but apparently that giraffe had to be killed because it had killed at least two maybe three young males and it was no longer of a viable breeding age so they were in the situation where they didn't have the money to take it and bring it to a zoo somewhere yeah and they would have gotten money from having this woman come in and shoot it yeah that's what they did yeah that's sort of that sort of the idea you know I mean one of the issues is if you've got an area where

you know one of the problems is you need to have a reason for the people who live in the place to care about the animals when I mean if it's just like hey the ovens are going to roam free well you've got people there who are like alright fine so I'm living near some elephants occasionally they eat my crops and shit and that annoys me I don't think of the Cajun Ali yeah yeah exactly I don't give a shit about that and what that allows to happen is allows poachers to come in and kill them wantonly right but if instead okay we're protecting them we have a revenue stream right we get money when you know Hunters come in and pay a lot of money to go kill one animal right now we've got a way to hire guards we've got a way this is now a resource that we're protecting right and that sounds a little cynical but it is working in some places and it's both cynical in effect and effective and we have a we had a woman on from the iucn international think Union for conservation of nature big conservation group talking about how this is effective now in some places if you got a corrupt government we're just going to pocket the bunny yeah that's bad right but the point is just because the mere idea of someone going overseas and killing an animal is

necessarily the worst thing in the world we have to look at the details the situation and that's hard for animal lovers to hear animal lovers don't like to hear that yeah they don't they don't and I like I said I don't like to hear it I wish I wish the TV right yeah I wish people would just it just what freaks me out more than anything is that there's no other options it's not like a bunch of people are donating a bunch of money to keep these areas Clean and Free of poachers and the amount would be massive right we can you can donate my money yeah yeah that's the when you've got a problem that big and intractable as how do you save these animals you know and against habitat encroachment right again you know people want to farm on that land people you know people have people have lives right they're not sitting around going the people in those countries not sitting around going oh I love the cute elephant like we have the luxury to do they like fucking live there right and so how do you get how do you get those people and that Society to really protect those animal that's a hard question to answer and

some places are having success with that strategy and that's something that we can understand we don't have to approve of it in every single case and we can say that's really tough for us as animal lovers and in fact the character who I'm talking to on the show says I still just hate the idea of an animal being killed right and I say yes so do I right we try to dramatize that emotional you know resistance on the show like that emotional reaction that we have I also don't like the idea of an animal being killed brutally you know I think I'm uncomfortable with the idea right but if my main goal is to preserve the population of these animals overall is that the from going extinct maybe I need to accept that this tough truth that once in a time once in a while once got to be shot through the head of the rifle maybe I need to accept that it's weird it's really weird when it comes to things that people don't eat like lions yeah I get it here in the psychology feel like Michael Douglas and the what was that movie with the Val Kilmer The Ghost and the Darkness that the lions that decided to kill those dudes are working

this movie it's a great room in man that's a great movie the ghost in the dark - yeah I feel like it's from the 90s but it's a really good movie about a true story about this guy that they brought they brought this Michael Douglas character was brought in to hunt these lions that were systematically targeting and killing these workers that worked on this railroad this team of lions work together and start eating people wow it's great moving and that we do it sounds on and they have to they have to go for the Lions yeah they have to go kill these lands yeah there it is ghost in the darkness oh holy hell biting tension that is a great hunter they'll kill nurse looking good there those pre Fatso about Kilmer three when he went up to do was to have some good handling more healthily looking guy too handsome that's the problem we had to just go off the deep end another one people got really mad about this is this weirdly the one we got the biggest reaction to and to the extent that I'm a little hesitant talking about it because it will start to shift storm every time I do scenes No actually we've not done a whole one on back

means but we really should because it's coming back I used to think that vaccines was like kind of done as a topic and like we've gone through it is really it is really back in it as big but no we didn't want on alpha males with an episode about dating and we did one on how the idea of the alpha male doesn't exist in humans like if you talk to any Anthropologist any biologist any sociologist right and be like are humans organized in a social relationship where there's alphas and betas the big know what are you talking about this is an unscientific idea right and we just did something laying that out and in the context of like people who are oh my type is I like Alphas right well there's no such thing actually you know humans are some of your dominant some situations not another's right it's an overly simplistic way of looking at human relationships and I thought that was a pretty simple straightforward thing I was like they're just a bit of pseudoscience that you hear people tossing out and people went ballistic on the internet because people have sort of like built a edifice of ideology in their minds about like

there's Alphas there spada's I'm an alpha this is what now is like this is what a bait is like you know and take away the words yeah they're clearly men who are more aggressive and athletic and dominant and more confident and and then men who are introverted and shy and more nervous and anxious and this is scale in some in some situations you know but situations yeah and that's what we're talking about right in Social well yeah but your social situation could change based on what situation you're in you know what I didn't like but a lark an athletic confident male is always going to be an athletic confident male and an introverted anxious male who has problems with social anxiety is going to be the same that that that that's who that person is I don't think so necessarily but so when were talking about Al went about Alphas right in animals what is that it's a social hierarchy right when animals in let's take away that word

but what people are using to describe when they're saying alphas and betas they're saying like confident strong secure people and people that are anxious and not tell you so if you're trying to say hey like it's good to be confidence not so great to be anxious like that's that's fine right but when people talk about alpha males and beta males right there specifically bringing in the language of like evolution of biology of zoology of evolutionary psychology you know and they'll start saying stuff like well there's alphas and there's betas and women are hard-wired to be attracted to the alpha you know because that's what it's like in nature like they'll be using that language right and so what were pointing out is that's not scientific right it's not scientific but it is true that women are hard-wired to be attracted to confident athletic men I don't know well I don't know if I agree with that but really yeah you don't think that women look at like pro athletes and like big strong athletic men and you don't think they're drawn to that for evolutionary reasons I know I don't actually I think

do you think that men are drawn to women with small waists and big hips and large breasts for evolutionary reasons you know I think that's an easy I think what that is is that's an easy intuition to come to if you're like looking at the way people behave right but one of the things about evolutionary psychology is it's the most common mistake to look at the way that people do behave and say the reason what the way we behave that way is because Evolution says that's the best way right that's their argument for instance I'll give an exact that's the argument that was arguments like you like that were used for instance to justify slavery right that like oh because you know whites and blacks have this hierarchical relationship and American society that's the way it was intended that Sound Nature intended it to be right but we can't we get some giant leap like the shapes of bodies men universally are attracted to a certain shape of bodies there's men that are attracted to different ones and do it and I don't think that very personally attract people to bury but that hourglass shape has been throughout time something that men are attracted to I think that

shape is something throughout our recent cultural memory that we tell each other that men are attracted to right that's when that's when we're that's what we're told from an early age to this that this is the sort of women that men are attracted to and so a lot of men end up adopting that right but I don't think that deep down that's how men naturally are you know really yeah I read this so that but that doesn't make any sense to me that's so non-intuitive because I'm all about things are not where do you think but where do you think it started where do you think this this Narrative of men being attracted the one with large breasts and a small waist and a big ass where do you think that started because this is like evolutionary biology as pretty much settled on the idea that the reason why is a the large hips would indicate that the woman be easier to give birth having large breasts and a large acid indicate that she has she's fertile and then she has an ample fat storage in the right places if she's going to be pregnant and carry children there's all these like evolutionary biology

reasons why people are attracted to certain things why woman we be attracted to a tall muscular handsome man good genetics very strong and confident could take care of her all these things are based on evolutionary biology so in understand why you think these are learned sort of cultural artifacts so my question my question is this is an assumption that we the public make about how evolutionary biology works right what's more of a thing that we sort of agree on well we as the like there's a there's an idea among the public that this is true I don't know if it's a scientific idea that's what that's what you have I've had conversations with evolutionary biologist who explained the reason why men are attracted to certain shapes and why women are attracted to certain shapes this is this is sort of the mean this is science in a way this is the reason why they're attracted to tall men that are muscular and confident as because that is what's always saved you throughout history I mean call to only make sense doesn't it it will just become

it makes the point of our show right is that just because something makes intuitive sense does it mean that it's necessarily true right but don't you think that in this case that this is a varied argument like I don't think that's something that you can dismiss I don't I don't dismiss it but I don't assume the truth of it simply because that's what you know everybody agrees upon right but if you ask girls like what are you into and you say if you are you into tall muscular confident men who are also nice to do Jesus Christ that's going to be off the charts it's gonna be like most of them I'm you know I'm really not sure that's the case really yeah thank you you had like a survey of women and if the men were equally kind and equally intelligent and friendly you don't think that more women will be sexually attracted to these tall handsome men with great bodies I mean look I'm not going to I'm not going to say that like first of all you're positing like a value judgment in at the bodies are

right so like our women attracted to attractive bodies if that's the question and then I would say that bonds are more attracted to women study finds some fucking jock guy with the dad bod maybe there's something here something that I was really influenced by Iran you think of that what I just said though that doesn't make sense to you that women would be attracted to someone who's fit look I mean it's a it's a hypothetical right like I certainly athleticism right is something that is attractive right that's something that many people find attractive right not everybody finds that attractive and I don't think that we can necessarily recent backwards to a like a specific evolutionary relationship right because the truth of what those evolutionary relationships are is like often a lot more complicated than you know our immediate intuition about it and what were specifically pushing back against in that segment is like the really sort of unscientific you know use of Alpha and beta yeah exactly where it's like you know you've got people you know just on

forums like sort of doing a mature pseudoscience right saying like this is the how the relationships between men and women are like designed evolutionarily and we were just pointing out on a very very simple level like the alpha and beta social hierarchy Theory right that like humans are organized in a social hierarchy and Alphas are above betas not true right even someone who is the person who you posited right the person who is athletic and confident right the you know the high school football quarterback right versus the high school football nerd right we'll take those two people and then put them in a different situation if those two people are like in gym class together right of course the high school quarterback is like on the top of that social interaction right looking at the sort of you know classic Wolfpack model there the one who sort of running the show right in the other guys like hanging out in the bleachers talking to his friends write or talk to nobody because he's a he's a beta and that situation right if you then take that kid and then you know send that kid to like Nationals right or whatever

you know and that kisser I take the the quarterback character and you know he's suddenly like you know from the little Podunk town right he's not from the big school he's like way down the totem pole right that person is no longer going to be in that high social hierarchy right and if you take that nerd and you put that you know take that kid maybe he's the dungeon master of his you know dungeon and Dragons group right that that kid is going to be Alpha and that situation right that's how humans work you know humans aren't organized in sort of like little pods that stay together for life and there's one person who's dominant the whole time right and that's the simple point that we were making in that piece right and people get upset yeah people got upset because there are so many people who we talked about this later on the show there's this idea called the backfire effect right where when people are told something that they don't agree with that when they when they someone has told somebody a fact when somebody has told a fact that contradicts like a really deeply held belief it can often cause them to disbelieve it

when it's true right in fact that fight back even harder yeah one of the reasons that happens is because of an idea called identity protective cognition it's if the fact that is being debunked is literally part of your identity like everything that you believe really really deeply it's incredibly hard for you to disbelieve it right the classic example of this is like you know Sean Hannity Sean Hannity doesn't believe in climate change right really well you know what I actually don't know that specifically what Shawnee Sean Hannity things about climate change and let's just say somebody who's made their whole career on climate change doesn't exist right all their friends are in the anti-climate change Community right they met their wife at an anti climate change fundraiser you know what I mean they make their money their write a new anti-climate change book every year right now climate change is real right there's no evidence I can present that person with that is going to make them take the social risk of ending all their relationships changing their whole life right because if they were to say okay you know what actually I'm convinced climate change is real they would lose all their friends their wife would leave them they would lose their

new stream they can't possibly come to that conclusion right and so they fight back so super hard right and so that's what ended up happening with that segment there's a whole group of people who have built their whole lives on the idea there's alphas and betas I'm an alpha I'm not going to be a beta right and so and and maybe that meant something positive to them you know maybe they had we're in a bad place in their life and through this model of alpha versus beta they started working out or they started you know improving themselves a little bit right and maybe they started acting a little bit more confidently and now they're in a relationship right all those things can be true with the idea of alphas and betas and humans not being scientific right but so when I tell them that they fight back really hard though no this is this is real this is real you know and so that video which again I had no idea they'd be controversial got the most YouTube response videos got the most you know Furious think things are and the weirdest thing was people start to say this is political like why is that I'm ruined everything getting political Mike I don't know what the hell they're talking about is this is I have no idea I have no idea

alphas and betas are now political I mean that's what people were saying I guess I guess you know for some people it's become that but because they see it as part of like I don't care whatever argument there in their head they're having about feminism or something like that but to me I'm just like guys in dating right in life like this is not a real concept if you want to say I'm going to be confident tomorrow I'm not going to tell you that's not gonna help you out you know and you know I'm a little bit reticent to make like a broad conclusion about evolutionary psychology right but I can tell you again go talk to any Anthropologist any biologist and you know sociologist is there such a thing as alpha males in humans and the strictest scientific sense of the word in this industry yeah exactly and they think they're looking at in terms of like winners and losers pushovers and people who get the job done you know confident people versus people are not confident but I think you're correct and I think obviously humans operate on the giant spectrum and if you start going around saying Alpha and beta and the idea that all Alphas are the same are all betas of the

and it's just as ridiculous as the ideas are all Democrats are the same we're all Republicans it becomes an ideology exactly Pro male ideology which I have the biggest problem with like overconfident men's rights guys yeah because I'm like listen we have all the rights yeah like that's gonna settle down I had a whole bit about it I was like just like divorce laws and that's it the everything else is stacked in our favor yes fucking chill out you're making us look bad and the problem is that men have our different than the problems those guys think men have right so for instance we did a segment on stereo Tweed an episode on stereotypes called Adam ruins a sitcom where we talked about different you know we talked about stereotypes via you know sort of a cheesy 80s sitcom had a lot of stereotypes in it so you got the stereotypical black kid you got the dirty about Asian kid give us 30 a neighbor was thing Joe gay neighbor no we didn't do that well there's only three acts on the show you know what I mean I wish we could on that and women and all sorts of things

but we only had a stereotypical dad you know like a home improvement type dad you know and what we talked about is like those there are ways that men are being harmed by the sort of narrow idea of what a man is you know for instance men have a very high suicide rate right and specifically loneliness is a health problem for men for like older men like take my dad right my dad's about 65 he doesn't have a friend you know I hope he doesn't hear this but um you know yeah like he has like work colleagues he's got my mom you know he's got me he's got I'm sure he's got people he's friendly with you know I mean but isn't it the best friend you know who doesn't who comes over to watch you know the Red Sox with him that's terrifying to me yeah and the thing is loneliness is associated with early death you know and with disease right and like when you look at the way that we bring up man men are socialized to not have

relationships with each other well really yeah I'm so well like we talked about from an early age we talk about the so briefly on the show but we could have gone into a whole episode on it from an early age researchers have found this that little boys when they're very young are very close with four very close friendships that are physical friends with a hug you know they'll kiss they'll you know because on that you know what I mean I have physical close friendships like that and then they reach an age where that starts to become not okay right where it becomes oh that's not how boys act right and girls are still doing that with their friends there's a holding hands with their friends you know there's still you know having close relationships like that and boys started to start to build a bit of different distance you know and you know it's easy to say Well when you're a teenager that's because the stigma against being gay and like we don't want to appear gay but it happens even younger than like kids would even have a notion of that you know so it really seems to be a deep down way that we bring up boys of like hey don't get too close to each other you know what I mean that's a little weird it's just a little weird for boys to do that

now and we do that we do have from a young age is very subtle and very subtle but it's Universal I mean in America it seems to be and you know I have even felt that myself like I've often had an easier time having close close relationships with women rather than as friendships yeah as friendships yeah man I don't just remember we're talking about how relationships and stuff you know you have good friendships with women mostly that are Comics but almost all my good friends are guys I've got a lot of good friends I mean you're lucky if that's the case well I'm certainly am but there's nothing that can I have a little bit of distance from your male friends you know of like not being of not getting really into it emotionally you know look if you don't feel that way that's fine I felt that myself why I can I'm sad or results in some people feel has me you felt it some people feel it I'm sure I don't experience that and you know most of my friends that I know have good mail

friends and they're pretty tight with people well when the point is that like there is a trend especially in older age right once bad magazine for anybody whether it's a male or female when you get older and you don't have any friends that's a bad scene well so demic demographically we know that that happens to men more than women right then the man my dad's age is more likely to have less friends than a woman my mom's age we know why I mean I think that's one of those things where I would hesitate to make a big conclusion but I mean I would say I think we can draw a link between that and you know that men are sort of like socialized to not have these close friendships but so that is a serious problem that men have that men face right another one we talk about is stuff like you know drinking and smoking for instance those are behaviors that are much more pushed on met you know those are much more advertised towards men right and those are dangerous right those are like hurt you physically and can lead to an early death right those are those can lead to bad Health outcomes and so those are things that men face that are different than the challenge

women face and can result in bad Health outcomes for us you know and it's so funny how the sort of like men's rights people you know they don't talk about that stuff quite as much they talk about you know violence and and you know people being hurt at work and stuff like that like men having dangerous occupations and that's and that's tough true is true as well but like these are the more subtle ways that you know men are are hurt by the sort of narrow expectations of what a man is that we put on men hey men are like this you should be like this you know and some of those things hurt men do you think we still do that though yeah we'll still put narrow expectations of what man men I totally I told him that you I think we might be lucky here in la la you know because we can sort of like live any way that we choose I mean you clearly live exactly how you want to live which is great you know and and I get to as well but I think that you know we're lucky and that were so self-actualized you know what I mean that that maybe we Face a little bit less pressure than you know your average Joe Cross the country

yeah but I don't know of anyone who's putting pressure on men to not be friendly with other men that seems so ridiculous to me to deny camaraderie obviously in the military it's a huge aspect of military service is the Brotherhood yeah but these guys form with each other and that's about you know if you want to talk about traditional male values that's about as manly things a person can do right serve their country and very much so but are like men for instance and courage to you know be emotionally vulnerable with with their friends for instance like I think that's something that's like don't do it they're going to bring it up when you argue yeah and so that's that's the thing there's that there's a level of intimacy that were that were like and and that's sort of intimacy is what leads to Long friendships you know then that really really last right it's a balancing act I think because I think there's there is intimacy and then there's also guys who are just being a bitch and they need to learn how to make

and up like this full full things are real both things are real it is real to be intimate and to be vulnerable and explain how you feel but then sometimes you shouldn't be just fucking complaining about things yeah figure life out and man the fuck up and go do something and it's not necessarily you being emotionally vulnerable as you like to say it in such a normalizing way it might just be being a bitch it's possible to inspect you don't think that when you say that you put a little pressure on on men at all yes I put pressure on man yeah well there you think so maybe you are maybe you're the one putting a little pressure yes they need some pressure I think most men need just a little bit of a motivational shove in the general direction of success and happiness and a lot of that is overcoming laziness and implying or applying some discipline to your life I think those things are very manly attributes that turn out to actually be good for you you know I think there's a lot of I don't disagree with you about about some of those aspects being good for you let me just give one other example

and I'm blanking on the name of this podcast I can I can look it up if you want but very wonderful podcast about philosophy philosophize this know I love philosophize this it's a great one here I'll look up what it was as I'm talking about it but I'm really wonderful podcast where they were talking to this guy who was in the military and has PTSD and he was talking about how the idea of be a man right was just a phrase that he would hear a lot in the military right and oh it's called hyphenation is the name of the podcast and there's an episode called be a man hyphenation really wonderful podcast about philosophy and talking about that idea of be a man right what does that mean in the military and look I'm just repeating with it on the podcast I have no military experience myself and I want to claim to but and you know that means sort of like overcome adversity right don't complain too much right if you have a problem solve it yourself kind of thing right and he talked about and they also talked with them

professionals who said the same thing that that idea can doesn't give men the tools they need to deal with PTSD right and can actually exacerbate PTSD because it means that they're not trained how to reach out for help yeah those problems no I couldn't agree more and Stephen situation I think oh yeah it's a different example of just a way that that sort of narrow idea be a man being a man means this A real man would do this right hmm that does that works in some situations maybe that works when you're you know in a foxhole right it doesn't work so well when you're out of it right and so that's a narrow idea that can lead to a bad outcome sure but that's basically what we were just saying that you know you should be emotionally vulnerable and know how to express yourself with your friends and be honest and true about how you feel about things but you also should know when you're being a bitch both of those things are real fair enough fair enough if they're on a hike with a friend and he has to stop every five minutes because his foot hurts like come on man my foot hurts to just fucking walk you're walking fine I completely know I completely agree with you don't think this is

worth it this is not what I had in mind when I started hiking that guy's being a bitch right yeah he needs to man the fuck up right but let me but you're hesitant to say man the fuck up because it was a woman what would you say it would say toughen up just Soldier on we'll just have well I don't think that the reason I'm hesitant to use that word is I don't think that being tough is exclusively a male right that's why I said if you're a woman what would you say would say toughen up in the same situation you got to toughen up yeah with it yeah yeah press on yeah but men like this we like to equate that to one of our best attributes being a fucking man yes I'm a fucking the map amazing what if you're what if you're on that walk with them on that hike with a friend you know and your friend is legit afraid of hikes I've been on in front and Hikes with oh sorry I haven't said hikes Heights all right like damn you can't be hiking with that dude no more went on a hike I went on a hike with a friend my friend had a we were in

National Park which has a very narrow that's intolerant Utah yeah my friend had a panic attack right because because of the hike and it was and it was you know and that's legit - right and thank God he was able he felt able to share it with me right yeah but if we you know so that's so that's The Balancing Act of creating an environment where you're not hey yeah don't complain about your foot but hey if you're really in distress well you can share that with me and some men feel that they can't do that and I remember when I was younger you know feeling well I want to I really have this problem but I can't express that to my friends because they're going to make fun of me right and that sucks and so my goal is to and what that segment that we did about manliness was about was saying hey if you if you're a man and being a man to you means you know being confident being assertive and stuff like that great qualities not bad qualities at all right but we want to expand the notion of Manliness so it includes all the different ways that one can be a man right that that is it's as wide as possible

bolt right so because the problem is shut it down the expression manliness right that's the problem because manliness like instantly becomes handsome aggressive you know muscular to all those who idea yeah womanliness is more like soft and kind yeah you know you don't think of it sexually right and she's you think of womanliness isn't really a word that's used but if it was yeah womanly that those are there cultural ideas that we associate with those things right but I so let me just give you my example I personally I love taking care of other people right with me and my me and my girlfriend been together 10 years one of the main things I love to do in our relationship is I really like cooking for her you know what I mean I like taking care of her that's like something that I enjoy right that's the part of my manliness that's like how I am a man you know what I mean provide feels good to get food

and you can sit down and yeah do something for cook for you can associate it with yeah providing providing goes back to that you know classic sort of man you know manly valuable takeaway that word I'm not even saying in that sense yeah there's nothing wrong with that word but in that sense you wanted to give ya executive and that's not a value that I was brought up with of like that's a manly thing to do right is to like be kind and be nurturing you know what I mean really but it's not that I really that really means a lot to me yeah well it wasn't what I was brought up with and so to me it's important to like expand you know my notion of what it was really a big deal for me to like realize that that was part of what being a man was to me and I noticed that like you know for instance like let's just take the example of like you know kids entertainment like growing up you know like kids cartoons and stuff like that like the female characters are the ones who are taking care of other people and the male characters are the

you are kicking ass right and I like kicking ass sometimes too but I realized at one point I was like oh I didn't have like models of that as a kid of like here's a man who takes care of other people emotionally or you know or in a caring way you know that the film actor film you just a little bit it does it does it does I see what you're saying yeah yeah I mean whenever you have a label especially a narrow label it's a problem you know and I think the the idea of Manliness or like what it entails and the problems that people would have about that on the outside it's almost always problems that are being imposed on them like are the ideas that are being imposed on them for people who don't like the way they live you don't like who they are or want to mock who they are how they live so someone's too emotional if someone's to introverted instead of celebrating that all that guy's different cool yeah instead of

that it's the bully mocking and shitting on them the jock type Behavior yeah we associated with being the negative aspect of masculinity total toxic masculinity is which is the phrase that gets tossed around yeah but I think this is you know this is just shitty humans I agree you know I mean that's really where the problem and it's not specific to it's not specific to men so it's definitely not it's everybody but let me give you one more example just to get back to what you're talking about body type and what people are attracted to I read this wonderful advice column it's this guy who is this guy doesn't advise it's got a kind of silly names dr. nerd love but he's does a really good advice column and this dude wrote in and said hey I'm with a woman she's you know a little bit bigger of a gal you know then I've dated in the past I really am into her she's so cool but she's not my type I'm not normally into women like this and that bothers me that she's not my type right even though I'm into her so much she's not my type what do I do about this she's not my type

and I loved this guy's answer he wrote back and he said dude she's your fucking type you like her right you're into her you think she's a sexy woman right the problem is you were brought up in a world where it's not okay for men to like women like that it's not okay to like women who are her Sighs and you've ingested that your whole life and now you're hating yourself because you were told something that is about what's okay for you to like and what's not okay for you to like and I really related to that you know because I remember feeling that way about girls I did like hold on a sec I'm into her so much but oh wait is she not is she not like attractive right Am I Wrong to be dating her because she doesn't fit what I you know the sort of like set of parameters for what an attractive woman is right and so when you talk about what people say that what people say to her attractive if you ask any woman wouldn't she say she's attracted this kind of man if you ask any man would instead she's attracted to that kind of woman yeah they might say that right but deep down to they maybe have a desire that is not being you know that they've been

this wrong their whole lives right I really relate to that I was like man that is really a good point I have been told that my whole life and it has I've allowed it to control who I'm attracted to to a certain extent you know and that's a mental prison that I want to get out of you know and you know now I have the benefit of a little bit older you know and I feel like I'm in less mental prisons that I used to be I feel like you're in no mental prisons at all at all I feel like a lot of your listeners you know I've have broken out of them you know but especially I think back about like when I was 16 years old and yeah you know you're swimming in that shit yeah and you don't know the question it yet a lot of the time and that's what our show is about is getting people to question right those assumptions and those things that you're being told without even realizing you're being told them but there is a problem with young men and their identities like them wanting other people to think them as cool yeah them is cool think of them as someone who's successful or someone who's doing well that's a weird say thing to say you know I'm really

to her but she's not my type but you know the problem there seems to in my mind in my estimation seems this guys worry too much about his identity yeah instead of just being who he is exactly worried about his identity and and that's a really tough thing to get over and that's what we were trying to help people get over in that episode but you know when I think about in my you know when I was getting started in comedy in my in my 20s you know the amount of time I spent worrying before I went on stage about how would I was going to say it was going to come off it was if it was going to be cool or if I get made fun of by the other guys in my comedy group about the other people at the open mic you know the really like I did I did you grow up here just come up in all rooms yeah the meanest motherfucker sure fucking are those super nerds try it out like all super Progressive fucking mean dude so goddamn she's socially vicious yeah no to especially just at the open mics in New York City you know it was a real lady to see you yeah because there's no

like organization I didn't I never set foot in a club because I was like I don't want to deal with anybody at the club thinking oh I'm trying to get a spot or whatever I was like I'm just doing bar shows Open Mic stuff like that and yeah there's no rules so it's just social enforcement and it's just people being like I'm the big dog like and people would like cross their arms are going to people sets or like say shit and like it really fucking sucked and the only way I got past the bows and I don't give a shit about what I think is motherfuckers think yeah you know and I know I'm going to identify the people who I think are doing good work and who I think are funny and then hopefully they laugh at me too I'm going to focus on that but but you should look at the people that are crossing their arms with Amusement because all those people are fools ya fools I know you're doing you just throwing poison at people for no reason totally you know look especially in Open Mic nights and those kind of shows with bar shows people are just developing yeah you know you're watching little babies running around and Nursery home that's really what it is yeah what they're trying to do with how many babies with those people are trying to do is they're trying

say well I know the difference between good and bad and that's one of the reasons I'm good and so I say that you're mad exactly yeah that's bullshit bullshit it's bullshit yeah and a lot of them aren't funny it's a real part of the problem they're trying to enforce a narrow band of Comedy because they think they can operate inside those parameters yeah but if they wanted to go onstage The Comedy Store after Joey Diaz they burst into flames I'm really that good yeah yeah that you're doing is not that good I know you think you have a point but what you're saying is not that your art is not that well no no listen to The Bill Burr podcast and you think that makes you better than everybody but the number of people who develop Bill bourbon do it like that or whatever like that kind of thing is like so so off to off the charts waste of energy you know really is and the best the best energy in these small groups the best way to use your energy is to appreciate good work and recognize bad work and recognize maybe you have some of that aspect totally in yourself some aspects of bad words

in your own act and maybe you should trim it out and look at yourself objectively the way you're looking at this person but the whole cross your arms and let someone stealing or doing something racist or or clearly fucked up socially you know like what do you care yeah care they just they just suck you suck too bro yeah it's likely your the Open Mic at 11 p.m. three hours to do three minutes you know so it's like your first couple of years on stage was terrible I want to go back and hug everyone who's ever in the audience and say I'm sorry and I didn't mean to put you through whatever the fuck I did up there that 10 minutes of nonsense I'm sorry you know one time when I was doing open mics I was doing yeah I was doing three open mics a night in New York you know and I kind of missed that I was like really fun is like going to the gym yeah it's like bouncing around bump a bump but you know you really get used to it and there was one night I can't remember why the hell this happened but my girlfriend and her friend and they're both cartoonists my girl my girlfriend is a incredible cartoonist

on her name's Lisa hanawalt and so she's funny you know these are funny people for some reason they're like we want to come to the open mic at the creaking cave in New York I was like you do okay here we go and they sat there and they were like we sat in the front row and they were like their their hands were like covering their eyes they were like like every single person he what is he doing why do you say that oh my God this person what were they thinking like they were there was just like the worst freak Show to them yeah and I was like yeah I do this every single that like everything that every shitty mistake or every weird thing that every person did that I was totally like blank to that I'd seen a million times they were like shocked by what was going on that stage and it made me really enjoy going to those mics again because it made me see for the first time you know like a made me fresh again to like how fucking weird I'll miss Open Mic so much because it's such a beautiful disaster right because you're right every single person who goes up on an open mic is sweating basically

they're doing like they're like endurance training like they're doing something that is physically uncomfortable even socially terrible and they're bad at it and they're just doing it over and over again until they get used to it so that they can just go up on stage without flop sweating you know that like everyone you're just watching a hundred people in a row have panic attacks basically and people are just being there weird fucking selves and you see a lot of nonsense and then you see a lot of people were like God damn that person is there is a core there and they're going to be really fucking funny and I love the fact that I know so many people from those days we've just all grown up together and now they're all right and sitcoms or they're doing you know I met Michelle wolf our first week doing open mics it was so cool we met like I was like my second open mic and it was like her third open mic and we saw each other at her and a couple friends like you guys are funny you're funny and she's like yeah we're going to sell their Mike you want to come yep let's go and then I've known her ever since and then like

see her do that white horse core White House Correspondents Dinner was like I just felt all that history all at once I was like this is fucking amazing you know I was so what did you think when the president was tweeting at her house like damn she got him on the hook I was like look at the whale that's what a comic supposed to do you know like the way that she pissed people off that was such a beautiful that was such a beautiful moment I loved it she was so fucking funny and it's great writing to it was great right funny shit yeah she wrote it a bunch of our friends from those days Anthony DeVito Greg Stone Dan st. Germain I believe helped to write jokes and yeah they were really funny and guess what like the crowd didn't want comedy apparently but they got one of the best comics in the country you know who's like on that she's in her prime right now and she fucking tore it up she did her job better than they wanted and they got pissed off about it and it was this is really a pissed-off they got jokes

Harriman for the New York Times was tweeting like oh I feel bad for you know Sarah Huckabee like for the for the you know light jab that she got about her eye makeup that was kill your breath thing it was so nothing and they were talking about what they say shit they appearance shamed she appearance shame there was the word they were lucky yeah I forget what it was listen she got off light everybody got off light yeah great have fun people from it when Colbert did that ten years earlier and he was a applauded for it people in the room hated that to if you go back and watch that video he gets no laughs when he's making fun of bush it's like well most famous like comedy appearance as ever right yeah and he got zero laughs in the room it's dead quiet it's bizarre if you watch it and then a year later was an uncle there he's the master he did it done it uh it was one of the big moments for comedy getting serious and like satire getting there was a breakout for him and like the political hacks in the room can't take it because they don't I don't know why they book Comics because they do not want comedy right and that's why they I guess there you know they're not going to put comedy anymore hobo

is an interesting cat man easy he's a bunch of things rolled up into one because he's a he's a legitimate Catholic like it's really Catholic yeah despite all the scandals and kid fucking and all the craziness and then on top of that he's this character but now he's not the character anymore you know now he's like a guy who's not totally playing the character but the character comes in and out like little Shadows yes it does it's like what are you hahaha what's your real thoughts on things because I know you as Colbert yeah I know you from The Colbert Report this hilarious fake Republican guy yeah and now I'm seeing them I'm not sure what's going on here man yeah I mean he's well and when you're when you're in late night you know I play a character on my show to that's like a heightened version of myself that's developed it's like a very extra nerdy it's almost like me as Pee-wee Herman a little bit like it's it's it's me as my younger self it's like very socially awkward I'm alone yeah oh sorry like it's a lot of up there you know yeah

and it's different than what I do on stage and you know I can only imagine even though he's still he's like his big thing for late-night was like I'm going to be myself I'm not the character anymore you still build a little bit of a character for yourself you know yeah well also with him it's like that's what brought him to the dance yeah the reason why you there is like what kind of meetings that they have with him yeah like what are we gonna do here we're gonna play this straight I'm gonna be Colbert I heard him say once he only said this in one interview but he was like we're basically creating a new character for late-night and so he had the same writers from from The Colbert Report and so he was like we're sort of like creating a new character how does this character work but I gotta say the old show I mean he's he's great the old show was probably the best performance ever made by a single late-night comic because the way that heat when I watch it now if I go back and watch Clips I'm like the way he would do like three or four fast little turns you know you know single line where it would like mean one thing but there'd be some sub tax that he would flip around and he would do it like it was like watching

like a figure skater do triple axels you know like watching him do that it wasn't it was really impressive I'd like the guy don't get me wrong but I like him more on The Colbert Report and I'm like him as a late-night talk show host but I think that agree I think that's also my prejudice against that format I'm like you guys just saw what Jack Paar did and kept going totally it's the same goddamn thing but I understand why he couldn't do the coal but he did that show for like ten years course you know like it can't you can't do that was a limited thing for him you know like he had that character and so he could only do what was in the box that character and what he's looking to do more and and I get it I also feel like man that Colbert Report is more interesting than the Late Night show to me as economic and as a comedy writing fan well for sure because the late night shows her just promotion shows that's all they are all they are is hey Adam here you have a book out hey Maya tell us about your new show here's our 10 minutes of Comedy before that and then we do that it's like it's it's basically like a version of a commercial and the and the nightly thing is a prison you know because you can only

talk about what happened that day so the smartest thing that John Oliver right he was up for the Daily Show he wanted to do The Daily Show he was Jon Stewart's pick for the Daily Show he said this in the oral history book of The Daily Show and then Comedy Central didn't close the deal with Oliver and HBO came and said you want to do a show instead you know and Jon Stewart was like all right go with God that's what John Oliver did instead so we're living in that alternate reality from John Oliver hosting the Daily Show right and so the smartest thing I ever did was do weekly not daily because it lets him go wider right if he's doing daily he would have to just talk about what happened that day you don't have that much you don't guess what you can't have as much of a complete thought in 24 hours or in realistically the six hours you have between when you show up when you take the show right you can't say as much it's harder and so being on that you know weekly schedule and he's only doing thirtysomething shows a year right because they have hiatuses that's what allows them to have those big long complete thoughts that Everyone likes so much yeah his Rants and yeah intelligent takes losses

use in pointing out a POC receipt yes great our show it takes us we take this like three or four months to write an episode like we're writing 16 at once but like you know that's how long we have to think about it and so weird able to take twists and turns you know we go into it thinking this is going to be our angle and then we're diving into the research we have a wonderful research staff and they say actually this is the more interesting part of the story and then we are have the time to go chase it that way instead right whereas if we were on a daily schedule oh shit well we don't have time to Pivot because we got a show to make right you ever feel time constraints like with in terms of like the subject matter the subject matters like very very involved yeah I mean we try to do the most difficult topics we can't you know we don't hold back from anything but the only constraint that we have is that the show we've got 21 minutes and then in but we got commercials so we going to talk about some for six minutes before we have to move on right and so that's the that's the only limitation that we have like the network will let us do anything we've been on the show for

mood on the network for four years the only time they ever killed a show as we want to do something about the NCAA about how the NCAA shouldn't kill at shouldn't kill sorry Chef should pay athletes right well in the case of football they should pay at least thank you we talk about that all the time I think it is one of the craziest fucking scams in all of money let it college sports are it's unbeliev they're making so much money off those kids when you watch those things every single person's getting paid every know everybody's getting paid the guy best players in the world are bringing water to the announcers are getting paid except for the players right so clear and the guy who literally I'm blanking on his name but the guy who created the system right who like formed the NCAA later when he left he compared it to Plantation slavery he was like this is like slavery what I invented you know there's no justification for it at all it is a bananas we want to do that topic for a college episode we pitched that to TruTV you know what airs on TruTV every March March Madness March Madness

I said no they said they said and here's here's how I live with myself I say look I will never take a know until it's the only absolute answer I can get so they said no I say I really want to do it tell me know again you know they told me no again I was like if the president of the network tells me no then I'm not doing it and the president the network told me no be the guy who I could write it and he could kill the episode so why why that's true doesn't mean you shouldn't have NCAA on your net word about they're worried about pissing off not only fun but yeah piss off those money-grubbing thieves I'm we found those Athletic kids with you all these month people are paying money to see those fucking kids that shit drives me crazy yeah exploiting of young athletes in college is conquers it is one of the ones that drives me because I got into it with Joey Diaz who explained to me because Joey used to be a bookie and he really understands gambling he was explaining to me how much money gets donated to these schools by people who used to go to them heels

it's insane anything and most of it is based on the performance that the school has in college sports yeah these people who are you know I'm a fucking you know blah blah blah I went to school there and I'm there to I die fucking go team yes assholes throw shit tons of money and there's thousands of them all throughout history years and years guys been donating for 25 fucking years yep and when the team wins the championship they give them a bonus yes and more right yes but who doesn't get the money as the kids fucking people who play the game all they have to do is oh well if you get through here you get an education and then you get to go to Pro Sports yeah how many of them make it especially in football almost none almost no but look at it what are the numbers what is it like I wonder what the numbers are guys who sign up for college football who make it first of all with a body that's functional the after four years of 600 fucking pound dude slamming Echoes yeah that big but they're giant giant dude slam it in

you you know five days a week we did is we did an episode on football and the concussion time it's not just concussions right it's like just the little hits right it's just that routine tackles yeah I mean what happens every single time you do that your brain you guys think of it this way your brain is riding your skull is the car your brain is a passenger your brain doesn't have a seat belt right every time you run into somebody boom your brain slides forward a little bit because it's not wearing a seatbelt bumps into the front of your skull and bounces back right and even if it doesn't cause a concussion it causes a little a little hurt every single time right and so you can never get a concussion do that over and over and over again and you're going to end up with CTE yeah sub-concussive trauma and happens in soccer players yeah it's a big issue in soccer and those kids are those kids are hurting themselves you know so this is what Jamie Jamie Road here in football out of 70 3557 NCAA participants approximate numbers who are draft eligible is down to 16 thousand three hundred forty six and now

down the draft picks its 256 so 256 out of 73,000 make it to draft picks 1.6% make it from the NCAA to the majors 1.6% ridiculous some NCAA two major Pro 1.6 percent that is fucking crazy let's be honest these kids are not getting the education as follows baseball's almost 10% way more teams with like Miners and all that kind of crazy though that's wild so almost 10% that's weird well they'll but that's all that's 10% of from draft eligible to drafted the major press not even the participants because look that's that's 35 K 7 7 K our draft eligible and then seven joint a7r drafted right but look how low the number is in terms of baseball participants versus footballs half less than half and yet they have way higher percentage this is our right it's also as we look at charts but also the things like with baseball you don't get hit right

yeah unless you get hit by a ball most of the time your injuries just from running or sliding and stuff like that yeah well you can get yeah you can get hit in the head with a baseball yeah but so much safer yeah if I had a kid and the kid was thinking like baseball football or basketball I'm like will take that football out of the fucking equation you got two choices yeah it's don't do it just don't do it you you're not going to make it no the very few people that make it out of there without like serious injury it's like it's not worth it yeah it's just not especially if you look at that 75,000 number if you look at for how many kids are playing in the NCAA now think about how many kids are playing High School football I don't know the number but it's got to be 10 times that right and showing the show me this kid is going to be he's the Heisman Trophy winner he already has been drafted to the Major League Baseball but he's also projected to potentially be in a top-five NFL picks whoa that's others like a big discussion on what should he do it's up to him obviously but players like Deion Sanders who have been in both leagues and have done both at the same time as like

play baseball yeah baseball man well that's better for your life because you're less you're less likely to like he have brain damage do you ever talk to a fucking baseball played there that's retired it's like talking to a regular person he still does yes the ones to be the quarterback bill you know yeah well it's bad to be a basketball player those guys clearly have the best of it like out of all the major sports basketball players because they I don't know about that because it's a much more grueling schedule physically first of all you're running and shooting every night you're sprinting you doing all these different things baseball is so much more leisurely but the celebrity aspect of basketball is so huge and like a nice pass for not baseball Chuck can't yeah yeah hey Rod and it's still there yeah but 510 Max 10 guys on the court and if you do anything cameras right on your face yeah Italy vs. and you here's the crazy thing about baseball this is pointed out to me the website Deadspin did this thing where they were like pointing out the problem with baseball today they went around they ask people hey can you name it what's the most famous baseball

that you could name and people are like Derek Jeter A-Rod Big Papi Manny you know Manny Ramirez retired guys and if you ask people they could meant if they're a baseball fan they'd say someone from my team or maybe they'd say Mike Trout or they'd say well you guys in the Yankees right but there is no A-Rod Jeter like level celebrity right now what happened I don't know exactly I can't I'm Tyrone Woods give him back the steroids no one's getting hurt what the fuck is the problem we're not talking about fighting we're talking about baseball give them the steroid the best part about that stupid game is when someone hits the ball does the steroids make them hit the ball better yes okay we'll give it to him yeah the fuck are you guys doing testing for that performance enhancing drugs man are the craziest the debate about that we've never done this on the show because I so I'm not like you should fully boned up I would like to I've thought about in the past because because the the divisions it's like the rest of the drug war right the divisions we make between the things that are acceptable and not acceptable are so arbitrary right so the example I always use is

like okay why don't why don't we like it performance-enhancing drugs not everyone has access to them so they're unfair right there are bad for your health and we think they're unnatural right okay so needing to yeah they're yeah they're cheating yeah well that's not just reasons why we think they're yeah right but but it's also but there's some drugs you can take that aren't cheating right like you can take advantage is the reason why it's cheating that's the primary reason so here so let me give you a counter example for runners right for endurance athletes like mayor I like running a machete Runner but I like it I think it's a fun sport so I followed a little bit so Runners and Durance you know the big thing is like how much your how much oxygen in your blood can hold yeah if you train at a high altitude then you can increase that right so there are these Runners the American Runners right they live at a high altitude they live super high up you know in Colorado or whatever right and then when they're not there they train their all year round they buy a place there and then when they're not there when they're competing somewhere else they sleep in a chamber that simulates low

right how is that not the same thing as taking a performance enhancing drug like they they you know that's not a it's not a legal to do that right it's unnatural right it is an unfair Advantage because not everybody can afford one of those chambers and I'm not gonna say it's bad for your health I don't know but it certainly as weird for your body is taken a drug I would think right so why it's not weird for body because it's only like living it out to as it's really just simulates law to it's not like taking just you know EPO which would be the drug that would simulate that which I've got recent experience with not personally but because the UFC just had one of its Champions stripped because of testing positive for EPO and then we're just finding out now they don't test for EPO and everybody that it's very expensive and so they do it based on the athletes biological passport and what they think you're changing variables that you know for whatever reason it triggers their their interest yeah you start testing additionally it's a big deal it's a serious drug mean it's a serious

his drug that also has like some serious health complications people have died from taking it young guys in their 20s and yeah cycling of gotten strokes and died from EPO that's it but there's no Health negative effects of sleeping at altitude it's just can you afford to live there can you write brute your life know if you can't yeah it's an advantage for that person over you so I'm just saying we have a we have sort of an are like yeah it's sort of an arbitrary where were drawing the lines is not consistent you know it's going to be one that is a big one that in terms of the impact on endurance it is a big one yeah actually saying now that they think the best best course of strategy is to train at low altitude and then sleep at high altitude they think that when you train at low altitude you have more output so you're putting in more repetitions because you get more oxygen so you have more work and then you get the same effect by living at altitude so you get you get up there and sleep and you don't have

train up there and if you train up there it's actually slightly less valuable than training at low altitude and staying up there damn because whatever I'm whenever I'm staying somewhere high altitude like I just did a weekend in Denver yeah and I was like going on a run up there and it was like obviously torture compared to like being here in LA but I was like oh I'm getting strong because I'm running at high altitude that's not true that really fucks with me well you just really tell it's working its work and it will help you yeah but it's if you are in that like athletes are were literally working for one or two percent of an advantage occasionally yeah on many occasions when you are living at high altitude and training at sea level they think that that gives you a slight Advantage yeah because you can put more work in especially for Fighters they think that skill work and repetitions and drilling is one of the most important aspects of it and you can just simply get in more repetitions yeah and getting more drills hmm yeah but they you know again though you're right because this is sort

of a performance-enhancing thing you're not just living and just being yourself and then showing up and competing yeah you are engaging in this activity that risk significantly raises your red blood cells significantly raises your oxygen capacity changes your cardio yeah your VO2 max changes yeah here's here's the weird thing is is just this there's this weird idea in sports and look you know shit love more about Athletics than I do it's not my it's not my real Forte but I do know I do enjoy and the thing that's always weird to me is that we have this idea that like there's some kind of Level Playing Field that there's like Baseline human that we can just say well you got to be at the Baseline right and humans are so variable you're always going to find these weird cases and when you try to adjudicate it gets really weird like do you know about you know Caster semenya you know who she is no oh no I do know this do I tell a story this story pisses me off so much so she's a mare that she's not a marathon or she's a middle distance Runner I believe she's South South African she's like the best in the world at the time

200 meters you know I actually got to see her because my went to the Prefontaine classic in Eugene Oregon with my dad to like watch the big track meet you know best in the world people this is like a Olympics you know not qualifier but it's like the Olympics caliber athletes saw her she's incredible just like one of the best in the world she's got a she her whole life has faced accusations that she that her that she's a man basically because she has like an elevated level of testosterone all right this is our natural body right and so she's had to deal with people saying oh we gotta we gotta do a sex check on you which is humiliating and like also completely unscientific you know like what are they going to do and like a section we want to look at her genitals well here's the weird thing man is that yeah they want to look at their genitals first of all which is humiliating to have that happen if you're an athlete you know many people have to be in the room sure this is the problem right how did you too Kate that right and also there's such a thing

I don't know anything about her personal situation right there such a thing as intersex people right where when you look at the generals you can't tell it's not like hey just look at their junk until right this is a real phenomena like 1% of people are intersex right is it really that high I was speaking off the top my head but it's higher than you think you know it's definitely it's a nonzero number of people right intersex people are realizing to real-time and so so but so she got past that right they stop challenging whether she was like a man or a woman it did it by mazzone tests on her I think you might be right yeah but so she's had a deal with that that's not fair right she's just an outlier she's a physical outline physical outlier and now the iaaf which is the organization that runs all it's like FIFA for track right they run all track they have tried to put forward a rule I don't know what the status is right now because it's being challenged but they've put forward a rule that says if you have a testosterone level over a certain amount you have to take a hormone changing to change your hormones and she's gonna fall under that

and so they literally want to change the body that she was born with because they're saying your body will is unfair to her how fun is that right that's crazy it's really really fucked up and and so the thing is when we make those decisions about what's fair and what's not fair there's no Baseline human is always a value judgment and when we're excluding some people that's almost all we always need to look at that and say are we discriminating they're definitely discriminating against caster semenya and is this the ioc that's what does doing this what is iaaf which is the ioc's the Olympics iaaf the Olympics aren't doing this so they don't have an issue with her I don't know what the Olympic policy is the Olympics is fucked up we'd whole episode on the Olympics the only place is fucked up in a lot of ways to it's another dirty dirty dirty business Predaking trillions of dollars off those athletes who work for free we had this dude on shotput guy who gold medalist in the shot put he was like the year I had a gold medal I was not able to pay my bills you know and he is literally trying to like unionize the athletes which is very hard right because I knew it

every four years but yeah those athletes are not paid plus no one's gonna listen to the guy who throws the heavy rock yeah what do you do did you want a hundred meters yeah I got a gold medal for the hockey team hooker can break will you throw a rock where the you can't make a living throwing rocks dude you know sorry it's fucked up these people watch those people watch those Sports you know most fucked-up things when they let the NBA play yeah let the NBA player gets yeah poor Eastern Bloc Nations yeah got these fucking you know super athletes to a professional American and they literally like players for the for the biggest ones they can you know get spot Michael Phelps can just can get a sponsorship right for the biggest for the biggest ones but the the lower ones can't get sponsorships and like the shot put people can get sponsorships and they're also not even allowed to promote themselves using the Olympics they can't be like hey pizza place you know I'll be I'll be an Olympic Athlete me you know at the pizza place because if they use the word Olympics the ioc will sue them she's um so

yeah it's already people really really really not fair but it's so prestigious if you can win a gold medal in the Olympics I mean you basically can you have a Fitness career for a life yeah but well you can figure it out you can be a high school coach for the rest of your life that you depend on the sport depending on the far right like shotput shotput I don't know what your prospects are right fuck bro you throwing rocks and pick something something that people enjoy while I track I like track and field which sucks cause is one of the dirtiest of all the sports but it's like anyone to watch why is that a part of track and field the rock-throwing part of the fuck where is there a track or field what are you doing are you a human catapult you at the top of a you the do that they put on the top of the bridge before rocks words I like this works we're like ride a horse then shoot a gun and go for a swim old-time shit yeah there's some stupid fucking Sports in the Olympics sorry my Canadian friends but yeah whirling curling's the top of the Heap currently is getting bigger and bigger

over here Preposterous they don't have Jiu-Jitsu in the Olympics and they darling no okay that's fucked up yeah retired NFL guys currently trying to make the curling team that just based off of a bet that he made a pact with this drunk Buddy's like I bet I could do it Betty can do it for sure having a tough time actually fuck that they are but like the drunk they're not even trying is this the your the systems we use to organize these things are so you know so much more about here's a really good example of this I thought this was fascinating like India right country of over a billion people right huge number of people has almost no Olympic athletes right and I'm like the first guy of wrestlers something wrestlers I'm not sure but the I remember this because a couple Olympics ago the first individual gold medalist ever from India won a gold medal you wanted an air pistol which is like shooting that's my shit shooting oh yeah okay I never heard of it before right he's into are pesto that he's independently wealthy and had just practice and practice and practice what they don't have

is India is it's a great country it's not very organized country they don't have a lot of infrastructure in terms of you know we've got teams right whereas in the u.s. we devote tons of money government money private money to like you know the swimming u.s. swimming billions of dollars people training science data data in India they don't have that right so despite the fact that they have so many people they got a billion people they must have every type they must have one of the world's strongest people they must have won the world's fastest people because they got a billion people right what they don't have is that training infrastructure right so if you look at it that way you're like okay hold on a second we don't like performance-enhancing drugs because unearned unfair Advantage well what else is training infrastructure than an unfair Advantage if you're born in the US you have a way better chance of making it to the Olympics and becoming that greatest athlete in the world and someone in the in India how is that fair how is that not an unfair Advantage you know that's true but to play Devil's Advocate if you are state sponsored athlete from Russia or China you have a much better advice than you do if you're an American and you some shotput dude it doesn't have a way to make a living

you bills while you're working for the Olympic you totally do so my point is there's no Baseline human like there's no there's no way to eliminate all advantages and never you know just oh no it's just what you came is just what you were born with right you know doesn't exist there's no such thing those women who are running with that what I'm sorry what's your name again Caster semenya Caster semenya those women who are running with her they just shit happens bro you know if you're a heavyweight boxing you grew up in the air of Mike Tyson yeah I'm sorry but this is just what you're stuck with yeah this is what's going on and some people are just they just have advantages yeah they just have advantages physically mentally and there's outliers you found it sorry you got an out leiter might want to do something else yeah yeah I know what race is that lady's going to run and don't run those races yeah yeah run a different a different ways that's always been how do you feel about trans athletes you know it's a good it's a good question I think it's we're really going to go through like a cultural change on how we think about that you know and it's morphing so

quickly you know what I mean I'm very much because I am of this opinion that there is no such thing as like perfect fairness and when we make those distinctions we're always choosing who to allow and because I think we should choose to allow like trans people to participate in society I'm for an inclusive approach where you know we're able to like find a find like a model that allows those folks to compete fairly in a way that everybody's happy with I think that's the I think that's what we should do you know and that to me is like that's what makes me like sports more you know is those comparisons like you know another thing that pissed me off so much was like fuck what's his name the disabled Runner who then killed his girlfriend well yeah the Oscar Pistorius stores dries right and people were saying about this guy that his that his prosthetic gave him an advantage now first of all there's no fucking way that's true because he doesn't have muscles muscles anniversary thing into does give you an advantage

I mean I think I think mechanically it does because they're Springs they essentially the way his leg works with those things is you put you've seen him right they don't even look remotely like feet you know yeah grab Sam yeah that she thinks yeah it's a crazy like but but dude the Seas vote but but how is it that's not an advantage because how mechanics were current is that a spring you put energy into it and you get a little bit less energy out right so because that's the laws of thermodynamics right you can get more out than you put in except a muscle does give you more than you put in because a muscle converts food into energy for a brief period right and so he does he has spread he doesn't have Springs sorry he has Springs he doesn't have a machine in his leg the way the rest of us do that creates Force out of food well the real question is whether or not the lower half of his legs which is what he's missing could make up for the the advantage the mechanical advantage of the shape of those things which applies all sorts of really unusual Leverage

you're running total you're not yeah I mean I don't I don't know if it's I mean I don't know if you took him with full legs and took him with those things if they'd run the same amount of time but the thing is we can run fast as fuck with those things you've seen those guys well he could write but where's all the other double amputees who are like you know coming of a marine track and field how many of them are trying to kind of Paralympics is huge there's like a ton of paralympic athletes you know like I've been told that it has a mechanical advantage by someone who actually should know what they're talking about but I want to I would like to look it up do those legs pistorius's legs they are hard I remember reading stuff at the time from you know you know exercise whatever atletic scientists forget what it's called who said that it who said that it didn't write it didn't yeah but so that's a debate that we could have right right but the point that I was trying to make was looking at that Olympics God that's a better event with that guy in it you know I'm so happy he was in it right well suit yourself like what if it does give you an advantage

someone comes in second place you know well so so the point is when we make the rules of a game right and this is the point of our episode about games which is about the Olympics actually when we make the rules of a game we are there's no such thing as a perfectly Fair competition that would be designed by God to be perfect and be perfectly fair right we're always making choices about what kind of competition we want to have and who we want to allow into it and what sort of outcome we want to have you know what I mean right just like in baseball too many home runs move the mound up or down you know how they change the rules a little bit because they want more home runs same thing with same thing with track and field we change the rules a little bit to allow this person to not allow this person right I think that when were talking about people we should always try to include more people not less we should you know like if and if hey if you're double amputee and you can get your way into the Olympics you can make a plausible case I think we should try to entertain that notion and we should try to find a way to get that guy in there right as far as trans athletes go you know we could have we could sit here and talk for three hours about like all the different ways of hormones might affect your body might not have

your body and I'm not an expert on that I don't want to claim to be right but a sports with trans athletes who are you know competing with the you know with their gender right that's that is a sporting world that I'm more interested in right and I think we should find a way to make that happen I know it's gonna be really complicated complicated and messy right and there's gonna be a lot of debate about it and it's going to make is going to be uncomfortable you know there's gonna be a lot of arguments but you know I hope that that's the world that we've moved forward to that's my that's my point of view my point of view is that there's a reason there's a distinction there's a reason why we make the distinction to have male Athletics versus female Athletics the reason is that males have a physiological physiological advantage over women so in most sports most physical Sports we do not have males compete with females the question becomes when someone who is male Transitions and becomes female do those same physiological

manages apply and what are the what is the evidence well the evidence and competition seems to be that it shows that it does apply particularly in weightlifting rugby mountain biking power Heavy Sports that are that favored larger people stronger bodies males that transition to females have a significant advantage in there breaking World Records so if you're a woman and you're a natural woman and you don't take any extra hormones or male hormones are not taking steroids or any sort of performance enhancing drugs you're doing your very best to compete in your at the top of the Heap but then someone comes along that was a man for 30 years and decides they're going to be a woman in this has happened and literally transition a few months ago and competes as a woman and destroys records and dominates you in that sport that's bullshit and that's not competing on a Level Playing Field that's a person who's biologically a male and who is a male for 30-plus years of having testosterone

through their body and affect their tens strength and affect the shape of their bones and the mechanical advantages of the male hips versus the female hips and then they're competing with smaller people who have been a woman their whole life it's not fair it's is as much cheating as taking steroids when the other person doesn't or taking performance-enhancing drugs when the other person doesn't maybe even more so maybe even more so because you also have there's a bunch of advantages in terms of reaction time that males enjoy it's like it's some significant difference in reaction time between males and even untrained males versus female professional athletes well I disagree and and I what do you disagree but I've already well the my main point being the one that I already made right that like I don't think that there is such a thing as a perfectly Level Playing Field I think we decide what kind of playing field we want to have sure we do make the distinction where we don't allow men to compete and Women's Division and I think that that

distinction may be breaking down a bit right and I think it may be time to break down that distinction a little so you think that male should be able to compete in the women's division of weightlifting know I don't necessarily but I can if they transition well first of all the there's there's a lot of stuff to break down right and I'm not an expert on the subject right so it's just sort of my off the top of my head one thing is you know your postulating a particular person who decided to transition at the age of 30 right and they were very big and strong before right and they decide to transition now that is a type of person that exists right I think over the next certainly 30 years we're going to see you know now that people are starting to understand that being trans is just a way that people are right there just people who are trans you know and this is something that we're going to accept and support right you're seeing folks Tran transition much much earlier age you know there's a but then and and so if someone is if someone is you

transitioning from the age of like you know seven years old right and you know working with those hormones you know from that age right they're not going to have you know that their body situation would be very different than the one that you that you postulated right I also know from my trance friends that the effects that the hormones have on your body are like really profound you know like really really profound like we're not like to a surprising degree right and so you know I have look if the question is how does you know how does a person who starts taking hormones at a particular age right how does their body change and how does that affect vis-à-vis athletic performance I don't know we're in such new territory here right we certainly are and we particularly we just scratched upon the idea of kids transitioning in a very early age I mean there's been more scientific evidence that points that if kids don't do that then it when they wanted to be trans at an early age they just become gay men and that there's nothing wrong with that either there's no

reason to give kids hormones and there's no reason to decide before a person's frontal lobe is completely completely fully developed which doesn't mean take place to like 25 people don't know who they are you a seven year old you won't even get people to even give their seven-year-old phones you don't let them vote you're going to let them decide what sex they are going to be for the rest of their lives the research that I've seen and again I'm not an expert on this is Ryan and you know I'd love to this is a conversation this is like I'd love to talk about on our show and I'd specifically love you know this is before this is the kind of topic where I really want to make sure that I know the research and that I'm you know also door seeking to trans folks you know in this conversation but sort of touch on just what I've you know my own experience and what I've the research I've seen the research I've seen is that trans kids from a young age they are incredibly consistent in their when you know when they're expressing their gender identity that's a big General isn't that a lot of human beings yeah

yeah but that's that's fit I'm just narrative by saying they're incredibly consistent belief you pulled these people like what are you talking about like if you I mean that's look I don't have the research in front of me that I saw so I can't like go into the details on it but like yeah it was I mean it was you know it was research that was surveying and tracking like trans kids who declared that identity from a young age did it change the answer was generally no it really didn't and you know I have a friend who has a trans kid don't know the kids exact age but you know in the age range we're talking about and you know he's explained that like well you know my child from a very young age consistently like said I am a girl like and has never contradict themselves never change their mind and so the Humane thing and the thing that he felt was good to do as a parent was to like Embrace that choice on his child's part right and yeah that's the Embrace of choice meaning hormone really I shouldn't even phrase it as a choice like like embrace

that identity but it is a choice right I mean if I choosing to add hormones to a child's body that's a choice it's a hormone the choice on Earth it's a choice on the point on the part of the parent it's not a choice on the on the on the part of the child to like in the same way that being is it with it being gay isn't a choice yeah okay but if that's who they are if they think that they're a girl why do you have to give them hormones to make them more of a girl

because I'm sorry can you expand on the question what's simple question if you say that the child thinks it's a girl so you're going to give the child hormones mmm If the child thinks it's a girl Let It Be a Girl Like You don't have why you adding hormones if you're shooting hormones into a child and you're affecting the child's development you're saying that's not a choice that's nonsense of course it's a choice you're choosing to chemically change this child's body he's choosing to inject things into this child's body on a regular basis that are going to radically affect the physical development of their body yeah and you're saying that this isn't a choice what's definitely a choice to do that so so what trans people Express and again I'm not an expert this is from me talking to my trans friends and and you know seeing what other trans folks say is that the you know experience of being trans and not receiving hormones right and not having the body that you identify

the feeling of dysphoria right is extremely like painful and is a condition unto itself right and the the feeling of not belonging with the body that you have of that mismatch right that seems to be in the broad variety of humanity the way that some people are born right where their inner self right the self that they are there like I am a you know they're not thinking they are a woman they're like this is the person that I am does it match the body that they have right and that gives them extreme distress right and that leads to you know suicide that leads to you know other damaging behaviors right and the best treatment for that that we know exists is to you know have do gender confirmation via hormones and other that doesn't affect the suicide rate the suicide rate for Trans people's very high post-op and pre-op really doesn't get affected by whether or not

treat them well the operation you know when the question can be - why is that is that because they're not accepted by society and we're not more loving could it be underlying issues that are causing them to feel this way in the first place like what is it we don't know and I think I'm sure it varies widely look so I all I can do is defer to The Experts that I know about this right so you know for instance there's an author named Bryn Tannehill who's a former former military helicopter pilot just interviewed her for my new podcast that's coming out soon called factually I'm doing it on Earwolf and it's like a long-form interview podcast and so she's one of the people who's affected by the Trump military ban on Trans Service people you know so that's why we prefer she's Trends because she's trans yeah and she wrote a fantastic book called everything you need to know about trans that like she's a she is now a researcher right and she went into really deep detail about like here is all of

Medical Science here is all of you here's all the science about it and so at this point the conversation I would say hey man I just got a bone up on you know on that particular I don't want to speak to suicide rates my entire concern is with children my concern is not with young adults deciding to take steps to confirm their gender identity who they feel they really are I'm all for you doing whatever you want to do when you're an adult when your mind is formed but people change their mind they change their opinion to change their thoughts there's nothing wrong with just decided to be a gay man there's nothing wrong with your body you know as you grow and mature and develop you growing out of these ideas some will and some won't and the ones who won't they always have the option to do something later on in life but if you do something to hormonal eblock a child very very early on there's no turning back from that well let me say let me say a few things of that first of all it's not wrong to be concerned about children and there's a reason this is the most intense part of this conversation and I think it's correct right because we're all very concerned about children right

but I do want to say first of all I don't think it's correct that trans people if they don't receive hormones from a from a young age they simply become gay men because I know it happens very often I know trans if you can find that because it was a big article that was written about that recently whether we're talking about whether or not gender confirmation surgery and hormone blockers on young children is ethical because of this fact and this was what they were talking about where people at one point time wanted to be trans and they listed several famous examples and then as I became older just decided to be gay including women who wanted to be men who just became gay women and I think what's that girl's name that was in John Wick Ruby Rose she was one of those she wanted to be trans when she was younger and now she's just a game woman so look II know I know quite a few trans folks right and I have to be honest none of the ones that I know were I don't know any trans women personally who are gay men up until they transitioned right I know quite a few

men who are straight men right or who you know lived their lives as to presented as straight men right and then transitioned right as an offer become lesbians very odd yeah I mean that's that's one of the ways that people can be I really recommend that the other thing I was going to say is that I do know also among the trans folks that I know where the trans people who speak about this that I've heard so many of them say I wish I had access I knew this about myself at a very young age and I wish to God that I had that we had I had had the ability to receive you know these hormones at a young age my life would be so much better and I'm not going to argue with those folks you know I wouldn't argue with these folks either but you have to address the fact that there are people that have gone through transition surgery and said I wish to God that I never did this there's a lot of those people too so if you're looking for anecdotal evidence and you want to be objective you kind of have to I'm sure we can see I'm sure we can find the anecdotes I'm very curious and this is what I'd go consult my friend or my recent interview such a brilliant Tanana Hills work on this to see how

many see how many are in each group right now which which which sets of these folks are the outliers I think the folks that you're talking about are probably the outliers but I can't you know confirm that all surgeries have potential costs however according to a Swedish study of 324 patients 3 41 percent of whom were born female surgery was associated with considerably higher risk for mortality suicidal behavior and psychiatric morbidity than the general population so that's people who got the surgery I am curious with 3.4 1% of them I mean the Deep the devil of this is in the details right because how much is the is the higher risk what does it mean 3.1 percent of those who are born female well some of them were born female and the other ones were born male the nails that transition to females is what it's saying it's only saying a small percentage of them were born female the transition to mail but the larger percentage was males or transition to female and that the surgery that they received was associated with considerably higher risks for mortality

suicidal behavior and psychiatric morbidity than the general population sure that's not healing them that's saying that having that surgery is associated with higher risk for mortality suicidal behavior and psychiatric morbidity but it also says above following surgery patients report lower gender dysphoria and improved sexual relationships rights for the children cells everything's awesome well this isn't saying that people are killing themselves you know you're looking for a you're looking for something that confirms previous limit established opinion yeah and as are you you know I mean we're sort of this and just looking to me we should be we should always be careful of drawing too much from you know a single study I'm like look at it widely right but what was the point I was about to make it flood my head I'm sort of at the oh here's what it was surgery another thing I know from from speaking with trans folks is that surgery is over emphasized right and then and that surgery for those folks is

the you know we as sort of straight says people tend to put too much emphasis on like oh did you get the surgery yet or not you know and really it's more about what are you living as and what is you know what sort of set of hormones do you have right but I would really one of the I've sort of reached the limit of like my facility with this topic I really want to shout out videos made by a friend of mine our videos are called Contra points her name's Natalie win and she does these think she's a former philosopher from a philosophy PhD and she does these incredibly funny videos about is not just about transitions about all types of things she's a really great one about comedy recently but she really breaks down like a lot of these a lot of misconceptions right and has really changed every time I watch one of her videos I'm like learning new things and like new ideas are like pop up in my head you know and I think you should check them out and enjoy talking to her on the show she's probably really fascinating person Hunter points it's an incredibly complex subject you really had really is fucking angel on the

podcast before who transition from female to male which is also a different and interesting thing yeah you know and he said that his whole life just felt like he was a boy and he didn't understand why I didn't have a penis he didn't understand like yeah the whole it didn't make sense and then once he transitioned to being a male then he felt complete you know I don't deny that my entire concern is that you're making decisions for children yeah and that this is a completely new thing with no historical precedent we've never done this before there's not like a history of hundreds of years of hormone blocker blocker is being used on young children and whether or not that is healthy and promotes a positive life I feel like if a child thinks they're a girl let them live as a girl but you don't have to hormone Lee engage with their body with chemicals it just seems crazy it seems ill-advised it does it seems like this movement of acceptance and Progressive thinking in

in many ways is a fantastic thing it's a fantastic movement but this seems to me to be a leap and that you're making this leap to confirm your ideology and to confirm that you know you're a hundred percent cool with trans people and you're a hundred percent and you you're going to recognize this child is trans but you're doing something you're doing something this child's body that you can't turn around and if this child decides at whatever age we decide that you can make rational decisions to transition as trans let them fully develop first let them be a person let them make these decisions but if you want identify as a woman you and you want to keep your penis that should be fine too there's nothing wrong with that if you want to keep a functional penis you want to identify as a woman and not even take hormones who cares do that do that but when you're stepping in to a developing baby that's only been alive for six years and you're shooting chemicals into its body to change the way it develops show me the research show me the

Decades of peer-reviewed studies on one of the most important things that we know of the development of a human being where you're going to home or hormonal e interact with their body in some sort of a random dr. Frankenstein sort of way like how what evidence do we know what evidence do we have that this is a powerful absolute like intelligent smart way to handle a child's life over the long term like when these kids grow to be 60 as opposed to kids who don't get the the hormone shots when they're six these people are 15% more happy there's nothing like that but yet people are jumping into it because it seems like the thing to do because it seems like the tide of society is moving in that direction well I I don't jump into it for that reason I do think that when we're talking about an issue that affects those people right the first thing we should do is listen to those people rights of the children listen to the children and listen to the adults right who said I used

be that child okay you know but they are not that child and you know to you said look everyone's different so for them to say I was that child that's nonsense you were a similar child in a similar situation you are not that child and I literally don't know but but they don't know how that child is feeling they don't know how much that child is being influenced by its environment they don't know how much their thoughts and their expressions are being encouraged by their parents they don't know that child sure so my point is when we're taught when you and I are talking about this right now we're speaking pretty hypothetically right we're talking about a child that is not in the room that we don't have we're talking about a fictional trial right so what we really care about are the actual people right and when we talked to the actual trans folks right and talk to you know say hey what do you think you know how do you feel and you know include them in the conversation I think we have a different conversation about it you know we do have a different conversation but we also have a different conversation we talked to people that have regret from

Mission surgery because there's a lot of those sure but we're not we don't have either of those folks in the room right now we have to acknowledge that they're real as well yeah I don't I'm not dismissing that those people are real right but when we say if you talk to trans folks you get this impression that's not necessarily true yet a wide range of impression I wasn't just I wasn't talking about specifically the impression that I wasn't saying we should reason from anecdotal evidence right I'm saying that look the last conversation I had with a person about this was a was a trans military veteran who is a researcher who wrote a book on on these issues right comprehensively looked at the research and told me that the research shows that the evidence that you're asking for exists maybe not on a 30-year timeline but there have been studies of this and here's what we know about them right about children yeah I mean that's that is my understanding of the I have

the research myself you know I don't definitely time to come I chose the positive benefits of children transitioning I don't think that exists well we can't solve that in this conversation right here but so that my point is look I'm not going to go out on a limb and tell you more than I can I can say off the top of my head right because I'm not an expert on the subject this is something that you know if I if this were something we had done in our show and I had dived in the research room or I could tell you more but I know it exists but I can tell you what I have been told exists by people who have made it their business to know you know so so you know that would be my next step in the conversation but you know that's what I'm saying is those are you know including those folks in this conversation is a really critical part of it for me sure so yeah well it's a conversation the world needs to have for sure yeah and I think it's one that we will have and you know again just to bring it back to Athletics right I think that the

undeniable existence of trans you know children to teenagers to adults right who want to compete right and who make a compelling case to that that they should be able to compete right is going to be something that we're going to have to Grapple with you know I don't think it's going to be easy answers to it and we're grappling with the right now yeah I mean I think the real the legitimate solution is a trans leak or a trans division to have a male division of female division in trans Division if you want to compete athletically that's fair to me that makes sense well I hope that there's you know like say with the you got the Paralympics right and the Paralympics is really like it's divided you know how they do it where they do like they've got all the different levels for you've got this much amputated are your this mobile and you can compete in this way you know and so that's really great to make a way that you know those folks can compete on a as level as a playing field as we can because you know given the the manifold variations in human bodies right but the fact that Oscar Pistorius which by the way we should bring up again he killed his girlfriend which is a very weird

the story and he said he thought she was a robber right bizarre completely bizarre but the fact that he was able to compete in the Olympics right not just in the Paralympics I think such a wonderful thing you know and so I would hope that whatever organization we come up with you know allows for the allows for humans and all their variations to compete in the main league as well right I disagree because I think possible they come up with bionic legs like Steve Austin from The Six Million Dollar Man there's some people out there that will cut their fucking legs off to run faster and that's real there are people that want to win so bad they would cut the bottom of their legs off to get Bionic prosthesis they would really for sure 100% would you know I wouldn't but I'm not crazy with this people that I mean take their hands just because they've there they are but you know that people have that feeling that they're supposed to be disabled yes so they amputate their hands yes this people with all sorts of psychological disorders but she want the need to win is so insanely strong

some people and if they found out that the hey man I will gives a fuck about your feet and your calves man they're going to look just like feet and calves except they allow you to run 45 miles an hour they don't think people would do it isn't that a little similar to the argument where people say oh Trans bathrooms it's just so men are just going to lie about us they can go in the bathroom and Peep at women and then we actually expand that right you're like hold on a second you're telling me a duuude is going to tell the entire world I am I'm not a man I'm a woman they're gonna start dressing differently they're going to take hormones they're going to like live with the stigma right they're going to one of most stigmatized type of people you can be in America today is a trans person they're going to live with that stigma they're going to change our whole lives and are going to do all of that just so they can peep at women in the bathroom will take hardly isn't any sense highly unlikely it doesn't make any sense but it also that's not entirely what could happen the what also could happen is you could get some creep who dresses up like a woman and goes to the mail the women's bathroom you can get that I mean I'm all for Trans people listen I'm you can't have it now I'm all for it but if you have a bathroom that

lau's trans people and you get some creep who says I'm just going to pretend to be trans if you don't think that's real then you're crazy of course people do that of course there's and people have been arrested is not as the no no there is there's people have been arrested men who were sex offenders who dressed up as women and went into the women's room and harassed women there's already been arrests this is but it's not because but Lisa they heart transplant so here's the thing they're not trans people the people that are taking advantage of a loophole and they're creeps and they probably wanted to go into the female bathroom anyway but they just couldn't do it before and now that there's trans exclus inclusive bathrooms some creeps have been arrested doing that they're not trans people the real problem is the creeps the real problem is not the trans people using the women's room they should course be able to use the ones recruitment the creeps can go like you don't need a law for like it so if they're not trans people right they are not supposed to be in the bathroom right right there print is hanging way trans people and this is what people were worried about but they have arrested people doing but

they could also do that even if it was not a gender inclusive actual right be could be breaking the rules of the bathroom and exactly the same way but everybody waking up after a man in a dress versus them being trans see if you see a trans person often times tramps people look very masculine there's no need if you're just going to pretend to be trans there's no need to hide we have a sweater dress on we have to ask ourselves is if the hypothetical or if the extremely extremely rare situation that you're discussing right is so horrifying to us and such a such a big problem that it's worth disenfranchising millions of people from the ability to Simply go to the bathroom when they need to you know if if that extreme Edge case or hypothetical case right are we really going to are we really going to you know hurt all of these actual people who actually exist and say hey I just need to goddamn go to the

you know in a in a place that is you know safe for me right and I don't think I don't think it is you know like we can talk about that one Edge case all day long you know there's been more than one case but I think they're here's the question what we're what are there more of are there more trans people or they're more sexual predators a hundred percent more trans people than sexual predators who are specifically going to put on a dress and in order to go into a bathroom specifically yeah 100% there's more transparent like photograph doctor of a million well I don't know but affectionately I mean how many people are trans so what's the numbers on that you know I don't know but I would I would consult my consult my friend brings book to find out because I'm sure it's in there because she wrote a book that breaks down all these statistics called the such everything you need to know about training Minefield of a subject you know soon as you start bringing this shit up people go crazy because it's it's complicated

and people they dig their heels in the ground in both sides you know and you know I tried to have a happier able to have a conversation about I try to have a conversation that's based on you know what I try not to say more than I then I think I can say with you know with Surety and you know but my basic principle is man I just want to defer to the humanity of the people that I'm talking about you know what I mean and rather than say well here's my ID here's my concern what about the what if you know what if a space alien were to come down to expose you know what I mean rather than trying to come up with thought experiments about it you know just like hey there's some people in America they're making a polite request can we use the bathroom please go ahead you know that's that's my that's what I default to really just killed a pervert and a big problem kill the perverts you know how many issues I think there's a way with sports again right I genuinely think hey my default is I understand his problem I understand you're going to have female athletes who are who say hey wait a

is this fair right I think we can go forward with good faith and find a way let's find a model that works for everybody you know I think we can do it in a way that respects the humanity of the trans athletes and desist athletes I think that we can do that and that's that will always be my think it's easy to say as an outsider if you're a female athlete that's being forced to compete with trans women who used to be men for most of their lives I think you'd have a different opinion because I think they have a distinct physiological advantage that's been expressed many times I mean there's a lot of Records have been broken by trans women who are now weightlifters and there's that one who's the fucking dirt biker who's was a professional dirt bike professional Rider before as a man and then transitioned over to a woman is just dominating these things it's just I don't necessarily think it's fair I think just like it's not fair for a man to compete as a woman I don't think that all those disadvantages or those advantages rather go away when you transition especially in a short time period I just don't think they do

and I don't think there's any evidence that shows they do there's a diminishing amount but how much so and in fact there's a doctor a board-certified endocrinologist dr. Ramo necrotic I think is renamed did a whole article on this about Fighters about male Fighters transitioning to becoming female and competing as female which has happened and they're saying that not only does the estrogen therapy it actually preserves bone density doesn't just turn them into a woman or turn them into female or the saw their hormonal profile similar to females but also preserves their masculine bone density because one of the reasons why women lose bone density as they get older is a lack of estrogen that's part of the reason why osteoporosis kicks in well that they that stops IT in its tracks when you're injecting female hormones into a male's frame so they maintain this male bone density now there's also arguments that African-American female bone density is in many cases similar to white European

density so that's the argument about the outliers and about whether or not it's a Level Playing Field because it most certainly is not yeah I mean so that's where I get back to the idea that look could someone show that a athlete who a trans actor who wants to compete is going to have a physiological Advantage because of their history of transition right could that be the case sometimes probably so you know I'm not gonna I'm not gonna argue that lets how about this because I actually don't want to know one way or the other because I have not looked at any research on this so I don't want to make any claim so let's just let's just grant that for the sake of this thought experiment right okay so that being said let's compare that against every single other advantage that every other competitor could have socio economic Advantage right country of origin you know whether or not they live in Denver if they live below sea level you know like all those different things right do is it Humane to draw a line around that one

unearned Advantage right against all those other on our advantages you know at what point does our fantasy of having a level of having a true Level Playing Field end up hurting people you know end up and up excluding people and that's the conversation that I think we could have you know I heard a really great this is just the beginning of a thought right but it came up so just somewhere I was talking to some people about this and in sports one of the things our assumption that men have an advantage over women right in sports in sports the our assumption Yeah well yeah let me let me expand our assumption that men have an advantage over women in sports is partially based on the fact that so many of the sports were designed for male bodies right there optimized for male bodies right basketball for example right it was an optimized for male bodies it's like the

the the height of the basket you know the the way that the ball moves around you know like like it we're ball moves if we're going to say that if if we're going to say that men and women have physiological differences right and then we're creating Sports and this and the sports are sort of tuned to the physiological differences of we're splitting hairs here we're talking about power speed athleticism all those there's an advantage that know when you listen Joy when you look at say gymnastics right yes I would say that like women for the events that are in a woman's gymnastic competition right have an advantage over men right women feel lighter women don't compete on the ring hold thing you know what I mean right men don't compete at some of that crazy you know bar shit you know what I mean like a larger there its height its flexibility it's like there's a lot going on right so that's a rare case where women's gymnastics we've actually created event

in that and like competitions that like only women can do right and so we sort of optimize that sport more for a female body right what if we did that with a lot more sports right and how about this what if we were able to develop because again the rules of the game right we are not absolute the rules of the game are things that humans create right and so why do we like maybe part of our assumption that men are better at sports than women or men have an advantage of sports and women are that we have constructed most of the games that we've constructed our actually sort of biased towards a male type of body right let sounds ridiculous first of all the reason why gymnastics is like why women are good at gymnastics first of all their their flexibility their lightness almost like also they're not competing against men in a one-on-one type of situation like one's trying to defend the other ones trying to tack like a game of basketball or game of football or any other sort of team sports game with when you have to have them compete against the they're not much that's

little things it's a physical event as opposed to a sport So Physical event is you have to do this thing it's very athletic it's an athletic Endeavor sure do as bounce you land no one's trying to stop you from doing it again when you're shooting basketballs you're not just shooting basketballs you're trying to shoot a basketball what people are trying to defend you're trying to Juke left and then go right you're trying to be sneaky you're trying to shoot from the outside there's all this shit going on and a lot of it involves your ability to move fast to close distance to have the physical strength of leap up in the air and there's a huge physical advantage that men enjoy this is not because the Sports designed this way it's because the sport is very simple there's a basket on one side a basket on the other side you got to get it in here he's they got to get it in there ready go if you're faster and you're stronger you'll be able to accomplish that better males are faster and stronger there's a reason why there's a male and a female division it's not that these Sports were designed for males is that

men are physically bigger and stronger and faster this is these are physiological advantages yeah you can have a thing like a gymnastics balance beam event where women are going to shine because they're lighter and more flexible and they can do things with their body that men can't because of the shape of them all the mass all the different things but that's rare that's the outlier yeah I don't think we actually disagree that much the reason it's rare is because historically we've created most of our Sports around things that men have the advantage in you're not wrong but sports are most sports involves speed and power most ports but why man have an advantage in speed and power I know but we created those sports right what would we possibly be able to create where women would have an advantage that is an athletic event where a man speed and power does not give him an advantage I mean look man this this is not again like I said this is the beginning of a thought right I'm trying I'm trying to use this as a thought experiment as sort of

a possibility opening device right but so you you postulate hey now you make a fair point that there's a difference between individual athletic events like gymnastics and competitive one-on-one or events like you know grappling or basketball or something like that right and so again I'm thinking this through myself as I'm talking about it right but like I don't think it's impossible that you could come up with a one-on-one competition that privileges that that is that is designed around the same athletic qualities that make a women make a woman give her an advantage in a certain gymnastics event I don't think there's any reason you couldn't do the same thing for a find a one-on-one competition that did the same thing right there's also what could it be I mean well here's an example for instance I believe I'm not sure I'm not a hundred percent sure but I believe in like shooting events right for example that women and men are on a Level Playing Field correct or that like

sort of air rifle sort of thing that like there are events right there do exist athletic events where you can have men and women in direct competition with each other right where that where that event is not designed around a particular facet of a you know male or female body right so my point is look men have you do you agree that men have run the country and the world for like most of civilization like that and almost every country okay great so many been the one setting up the sports so the fact that as you say it's rare that we have sports that are sort of more designed around a female you know the difference between between women as men right I think that might be because men have been setting up all the sports right and so my so Microsoft has sports that women gravitate towards

how do you mean the sports that women gravitate towards that they really enjoy this mean like women's volleyball she ain't right oh no there's many successes women have traditionally gravitate towards gymnastics as you said earlier is perfect example but those will be way more women involved gymnastics and men oh absolutely but there those are the sports that get the less attention right now we have less huge amounts it sure does it's one of the rare examples of like ones where you know that is a real female forward you know female for a sport right no one bothers me the most is the volleyball was that because the girls have to dress like hoes like even in the Olympics they wear thongs imagine that fucking basketball players in a dress like that yeah that's fucked up man I think they can choose what their where I think well they can't what do you want to name the Muslim Egyptian team they dress in traditional garb the name of the volleyball player who has the black tape on very famous you know they're the two with the two women from the u.s. they're very famous volleyball players whose names I can remember they probably aren't complain about what they're wearing their profits using what they're wearing I don't know

I don't think they have some amount of if but I mean when I tune into Olympic volleyball my Timmy these girls in their underwear pretending they're at the beach they're not even at the beach it's a choice apparently they wanted to wear yeah they want to where I received that mean good move they've okay but is that a choice for the men basketball players can they wear thongs they can wear short shorts if we imagine if they decided where they could wear it like a cut off with a midriff showing and little booty shorts they might be allowed to they wanted to come back to an Era masculinity they might get shit in the lock and Maybe not maybe they make a point I like the short shorts that they used to wear a couple decades ago so okay look yeah Larry Bird style you know one of the things I love about baseball and I start watching baseball is you get to choose your own baseball pants you ever noticed that like you get to choose when you look at him some of them wear really tight baseball pants and it somewhere really baggy baseball pants and I just love imagining I like clothes I imagine them going to like the baseball Taylor and being like dude I want to like zag my pants I want you know I'm sure a little

wag but you don't want to impede your performance so I think the tight would be better as you're running against women shave their bodies to be more aerodynamic and how much really if you're just running to first base how much does like baggy pants the wind catching the baggy pants could that for real we look at like Manny Ramirez had like the baggiest pants I remember and like you had to imagine that guy was like a little bit suboptimal with his baseball pants you know be maybe just he was like yeah maybe a big-ass thighs and they only feel good with baggy pants let me just put a bow on what I was trying to get earlier because I know I was I was sort of like getting to a pretty Spacey place my point is just what our show is about so much is about showing how the things that we take for granted in our world like the way the world is so much of the time is just something that we built right and we can question it and so when we say men are men have advantages of in women over Sports I'm like well hold on a second let's look at how we set the sports up and is it possible that we could set up set it up in a different way right that would allow more people to compete in sports right might not

same Sports I'm not going to say that women should play in the NFL against men right I don't think I'll be safe I think anyone should play in the NFL frankly I think it's way too dangerous it's very bad for people but is it like is our assumption just based on hey these are the sports that we invented we happen to invent sports that were men have the advantage can we imagine a world where 90% of sports are ones where women have an advantage of would we be having a different conversation and if that's the case could we come up with some sports that like everybody could you know that where there's no it would have to be non-physical Sports I think but I think yeah you could come out with competitions where women and female traditional female characteristics would have an advantage for sure you could I mean it could definitely be done you know it's just the ones that exist now when that involve running and lifting things and moving fast fizzy lot physiologically males have an advantage yeah that's why we have these distinctions and that's why we have men's divisions and women's divisions over hundreds and hundreds of years ago you know what this is just not fair

it's not fair you know but you know I mean is it the like that's that's the notion of fairness we have now you know I think the interesting thing about the question trans athletes is it's going to challenge that notion it's going to lead to conversations like this one you know yeah I mean that's really cool and that's what I think we're sort of we should be down to have as a society right well talking about things especially when there's a disagreement is the only way to solve them yeah but you know I think these conversations often times become the shouting matches and I you know everybody digs her heels in as you were talking about before about how people's identities get really locked into ideas that they've held strong to whether it's I didn't identities about religion or identities about politics right I mean that's why when you were talking about alphas and betas people are why is it show getting political this is how dorky people get yeah it does there's nothing political about that yeah but you think it's political because it represents these rigid ideology exactly it would be stumbled across something that

like a really deep this men's rights activist types then they connect that to their to their National politics into their sex gender politics and everything and it was just like just the idea of questioning that really set them off right but what I'm about is questioning all these things you know this conversation that we had this disagreement to the extent that we were disagreeing I think is a really good one to have you know and I'm always testing what I think I know and trying to sort of undermine it and say like do I know this for sure I mean dude on our show we have done more than one segment we've another one coming out later this year where we like go back and we correct our own mistakes we correct the things that we've done wrong on our show what was a big one let's see a really big one that we have coming out I'll give you a preview we did one about there was we did a topic about sugar and fat about how you know Americans were like obsessed with cutting fat the low fat

is right and a lot of that was there was an early research there's early research by this one researcher who showed that Sugar causes a lot of heart disease you know and obesity and stuff like that and the basically the sugar Lobby shut him down you know and you know we're sort of funding research that really showed that that was the problem and that research sort of took over and that really led to the sort of anti-fat craze right right we did a story on that topic we later found out that like sort of the way that we had characterized the story of that happening was not accurate you know was or does that make sense like the The Narrative part of it like it's true this guy's research existed right it's true that the sugar Lobby hated it you know but the research that showed that fat is bad you know that fat causes heart disease as well it wasn't like totally shitty research and like this sort of narrative isn't the only reason that that other research fell out of favor does that make sense

and so we talked about that as a way that like the story of there was this good guy researcher who is sort of like stifled by the bad guy researcher in a Lobby uh sort of misled us down that dry pan too simplistic it's more complicated than that exactly and that's what happens when you're doing a show that has you know six minute segments right yeah that's what I was getting on this like when we were talking about earlier like the time constraints on some subjects like think about how much time we spent just talked about trans people and trans athletes you have an hour at least two sis males yeah you know talking about something you have no personal experience in and that's one of the reasons we've wanted to that topic on the show but we're like man we really want to do justice to it and it's really hard to do in six minutes well it's not looking to go longer in my in my career I'm looking to find ways to go longer well why can't you do it online like like save that NCAA things as well contract but you have a clause in your contract to take some issues that you would like to talk about and like that the network wouldn't let you talk about luck NCAA couldn't you do like your own

of it yeah total I mean I'd have to find a way to fund it you know probably definitely not Adam ruins everything yeah I totally totally didn't show I mean so far I've talked about it here right and I do want to say by the way we talk about the thing that we have a very cool Network they that was the one time they ever called a topic and what they did allow us to do was in an episode we have coming out later this year we talked about on the show the fact that they killed that topic and we talked about how add you know we're on advertising-supported TV and occasionally we tear into advertisers you know and occasionally we have a conversation of the network or the network says actually Gatorade kind of sponsors the network and you're talking about Gatorade and then we have to have a conversation we still to get it did our Gatorade topic but we had to have a talk or to you know and they sugary sports drinks we talked at we said okay all of the sports drinks overemphasize hydration as a problem you know and so we you know we did a whole segment examining how much does advertising affect the show right and as a

all to the NCAA we had to kill that segment and the network let us say that on TV so that was really that was really cool that they allowed us to like bring up that conflict on the show but ya know there's nothing stopping me from going on the Internet it's just it just so happens that you know I'm a comic and you know I had the wonderful opportunity I've always wanted to have my own TV show another wonderful opportunity to create one if I hadn't had that chance for five years ago I would have I would probably be on YouTube right now doing like you know hour-long explainer videos with me doing jokes straight to camera and I love folks who do that like like and you know maybe I'll maybe I'll find myself doing that again someday but right now I'm just like too busy making it's hard enough to in 16 episodes of TV a year to like also figure out how to write and research I think that straight to camera but it only imagine you did start out doing that right you started out on YouTube yeah and CollegeHumor we I was a writer there and I developed Adam ruins everything while I was there and then we sold it at TruTV I will say on my on my live shows now I I've just been

tour with my new show mind parasites which is like me trying to figure out how what I do how to do what I do in a stand-up context right and so I took that all across the country I'm hoping to set up some more date soon it's this really cool show about how these biological parasites that control like their hosts Minds like this fungus that takes control of an ant and like let's see a lot of weird things like it's like literally their minds become controlled by this parasite that infects them and I use that a way to talk about I use that as a way to talk about the cultural parasites that are controlling our minds like advertising like the social media algorithm like alcohol in my case I quit drinking recently how long ago about a year ago that's it no not at all right now not at all not at all man I'm sorry I'm really sorry I know you'd love to get me in a musk moment and I feel beautiful oh my a lot less news my look very happy not drinking I don't want to love to tell weight right away did you well yeah alcohol is bad for you but yes

that's that show is me going longer right and I'm up on stage for like the theme it's a theme yeah it's like got a tile it's got its got sections and I'm write it out as a theme like initially as yeah like have a framework for it yes I did and and that was so hard to write because as a comic you're used to going up and just like well just going to Riff on a new idea oh that's a chunk and then I'll combine with other chunk and then that's my special right but I was like Hey I want to figure out a way to do what I do which is like come up with an argument and and some information and put it in a framework so I was like alright mine parasites I'll talk about these biological parasites I also want talk about advertising time to write some jokes and that was hard as hell to I felt like doing it backwards but I worked it out a lot on stage and eventually found it and the show's really really clicking now I'm really sorry Chef Ian are which is talking about that because Ari shaffir is doing that with his most recent our his most recent recent hours entirely about his history in Orthodox Judaism

he was serious Orthodox Jew spent a lot of time and in Israel like living in one of those religious commune type deals with they call those Rishi shiva's oh yeah well they call it sign of yeah yeah I think yeah I think that's what it's called he studied the talmud and the Torah study that all day long know that yeah I mean he's with 12 hours a day we don't and then said this is nonsense the fuck am I doing and then became re and so his most recent special that he's in the middle of creating right now it's called Jew and it's the first time that he's ever done a total special from top to bottom on one subject and he's piecing it together like sort of in many ways it was influenced by some of the hours that he saw when he went to Edinburgh yeah and saw the festival but he said that he wanted to do it American style whereas they had these themes but they didn't necessarily emphasize the punchline yeah and the stand up in the left that's the same problem my that's the same problem I had because when you're writing that way you need to make a point and it's

then hard like all right that joke is pretty good but I need I could juice it more but I need to get to the next point you know yeah and so that's a challenge with writing that way but I've just been doing it enough on stage that I've been able to like you know like it's it's look I'm not gonna say I'm the funniest guy on the planet when his mother fucker ever but like it's got the punch lines I wanted to have you know that's awesome yeah it's cool that the think about it that way to is a framework and then start from the I know Chris Titus does it that way too yeah a lot of guys do it that way with they'll try to make a framework and then have all their ideas fit inside of that framework yeah I mean the thing that I found out is the reason I people ask me how I got into this you know and I was just a comic in New York just going up on stage and you know after a while you learn how to make people laugh but you don't know how to make people give a shit about you right like okay Greg enforce an audience to make a noise all at once you know what I mean but I can't make them remember me right and so when I started talking about the stuff that I've learned you know just information sponge I just pick up shit like this you know and I started talking about you know how do you know that the diamond engagement ring was

game on the part of the De Beers Corporation the 30s and everyone just forgot now we think it's tradition right that was the first but I ever did that with those my most sort of sit famous signature bit people start paying more attention you know and oh my God I didn't realize that you know and now I'm in this weird Niche no one else does what I do I do like educational investigative comedy right when you watch me you laugh and then also you learn some mind-blowing shit that you're going to remember a year from now you know and no one else is doing it and so the cool thing about it is when I go up there I'm not running in this you said earlier make your own race you know or like don't run the same race as everybody else every other comic I'm like every other comic trying to win the hundred meter dash and maybe Usain Bolt's in the race with them right that's Bill Burr whoever you know what I mean Usain Bolt's trying to beat him in there like fuck I can be pretty fast but never be number one you know I'm running a race I'm the only person doing this you know like I'm just doing a race off to the side we're like my show if you go to see Bill Bird there's more punch lines per second per sure for sure right you're going to you but I my show

you're going to learn about some weird bugs and you're going to think differently about social media you know you're going to you're going to come away with a new idea and that's why I had to hear this yeah I've engineered it that way and and so that's what I try to tell other comics when they're just talking you know when people see my show know how to write this I'm like you just figure out what you can give people that other people aren't given them you know and like that's possible to write in a different in a different way you know I miss doing straight State like I have my Straight stand up our or I just go and I tell you my stupid observations about shit you know and I love doing that material but that material is not going to get me a Netflix special you know because it's not different enough you know I see what you're saying so you've kind of like your you have a strategy for a little bit yeah that's also what I want to talk about you know Josh yeah it's a cynical but yeah it's not like you're being disingenuous this is who you are yeah it's cool that you found a niche like that you found this little Groove that you could come into work you I have a few bits that I do that are scientific reality that people don't believe in that or the

I wouldn't imagine until you hear about it particularly biological stuff but but mine parasites is one that we've brought up in this podcast fucking thousand times that's a pulse key on who's that Robert sapolsky from Stanford who's a top researcher and one of the top research has talked about Toxoplasma oh yeah yeah I talk about that a little bit in my show ya listen to his lectures on its grain that stuff is nuts the toxoplasmosis is wild 50 million Americans have it yeah probably me yeah I think you have in your brain the for a lot of parasite and my understanding I wanna check out this guy's research the research that I saw was like not quite definitive enough to be able to say this affects your behavior it's like they think maybe probably so I was like that's not enough for me for my show but like so I you know I talked about but you know what I talk about is the way that like the social media algorithm right is designed it's just like Evolution right it's like it's just testing on you every single second year online as to have trying to see whether the gene

perpetuate themselves this test is saying can I get you to click run are you interested you upset are you getting gauge exactly the best way to get you engaged to piss you off exactly and if I get you to click all they do is they just reproduce that same stimuli with little changes just like Evolution and by doing that they're able to control our behavior in a real fucking way and people know this you know but it really is happening to you do you listen in Sam Harris this podcast I've heard a couple times yeah he's got a great one I'm pulling it up right now that I just recommend yesterday but I'm going to recommend it again because it's that fucking good and it's about Facebook and about how this is all set up it's called The Trouble with Facebook and the guys name is Roger McNamee Mick and eme but that's absurd 152 yeah but it's really fascinating because one of the things to take into consideration is that this company Facebook makes their money off of collecting your data the best way to collect your data is to get you to engage the best way to get you engaged it's put things in your newsfeed they're going to piss you off yeah and it's like there

this division that's that's rising in this country is coincides yeah and social media and it's not coincidentally and here's the thing they don't even the really fucked-up part is the people who created these algorithms that is not their intent they're not trying to piss you off and they're not trying to create division all they're doing is they're like look we just want people spend as much time inside is possible yep algorithm watch what they're doing and give them more like that right and then so it's happening accidentally and so then when we're all looking at Facebook own like look what Facebook's doing there like what you talking about right it's just about we only change anything you know just we just have an algorithm that rewards engagement yeah I know I know that you I know that you had Jack Dorsey on I did not hear that interview I just know you had him on how to my couple times I know that people are pissed off at you know like and my own personal piss off with them is that like they don't they don't take enough ownership of it you know like and and that's not just I don't want to focus on Dorset Zuckerberg has the worst with it you know

that they these algorithms are causing these behaviors and then they're saying oh that's not oh no we're not doing that we've just like we're just trying to get people to be on the site more like it's using which the next people what do you think about I don't change it but what if they had no algorithm what if they just allowed it to exist as just a virtual Message Board you know Twitter No moderators Twitter well that's that's a problem itself right because like that's like okay a virtual message board with no moderators is like like let's just talk about fighting for instance right like okay when you've got a UFC fight right you've got a referee right you've got a situation you've created got you've got a ring you know you've set things up so hey people are going to get hurt but not more than you want them to write no moderators that's like hey let's have a street fight with nobody watching right no one's there's no rules there's an unlimited number of people in there's just people wailing on each other well people are going to get hurt you know so like I think when you are creating the

at form you're creating the place where the discussion is happening you have a responsibility for what kind of discussion happens in that place you know because you're the one who set up the ground rules you know they were trying to do that with YouTube for a while they were trying to say that like if you have a YouTube page and your comments are filled with anti-semitic hate that you can get in trouble for that hmm you were supposed to clean up your comments and the people went what the fuck are you talking about and YouTube was like ah forget it yeah so I backed up on YouTube right that's YouTube YouTube is the one that allowed that to happen the comments YouTube's the one saying that we're not going to moderate anything yeah could they how can they well when you do you literally need physical moderators yeah I know and then you have ethical tradition that they're facing many people there's so many people yeah and this is the issue with Facebook this is the issue with Twitter the real question is like who gets to decide what is offensive what is not I'm sure you're aware of the learn to code Fiasco oh I think marketing her hand for saying learned

code and it was really mocking this idea that people were telling coal miners who are losing their jobs you know hey there's jobs in computer programming and like yeah you should learn to code and people started mocking people by saying learn to code and then learn to code apparently according to Jack Dorsey and Vijaya it got connected to anti-semitic remarks and hate remarks and then I'll recite mm level of Internet this is Aidan at nonsense it's fascinating because that doesn't mean anything learn to code is not offensive was like yeah well it's ridiculous to ask a 50 year old man is a coal miner to learn to code in doesn't have a formal education that is ridiculous but I mean the fact that you get banned for life for saying that so that's actually even more ridiculous yeah but then there are cases where people go and they try to create like a if someone if someone who look there are anti-semites out there right they do try to come up with like ways to indicate anti-Semitism to each other that other people won't detect sure what I mean via

you know slang basically inner slang right and at some point someone needs to be able to say okay we home saying this is we figure out this in 87 dicks flying so we're not going to allow you to say you know what I mean it's like shit like 88 or what is another thing where you have to yeah uh this is a Hitler this is the problem right this is the this is the exact problem that you're talking about so but the contrary the contradiction that all of these platforms have right is the early days of the internet member the early days it was like people were really concerned that people would start suing websites because what was on the website right like like The Pirate Bay the big torrent site you know like you're going to get sued because you've got DVD screeners on there now hold us like we're just this is just where people can upload the shit you know Google getting sued because they would you know direct someone to the DVD screens they searched for leaks DVD screener you know what I mean and so that was a big concern in the early days of the internet right and so we established this precedent that like no no these sites are don't have responsibility for that right there just the how people are connecting to things

not the people doing the bad shit right you go over the people doing the bad shit not the people who made it possible to find the bad shit right now though we're in such a place where so all these businesses built themselves on the idea of YouTube right we don't make anything at YouTube we just give you a place to upload your videos right so at first that's fine all right just take down the anti-semitic you know white supremacy videos all right all right but now there's so so many of them right and also not only that YouTube's algorithm is directing people towards them and YouTube is selling ads against them and making money at them right and at the same time like you know these videos exist right and at the same time they're still trying to say well we have no responsibility for that happen to like hold on you guys built a system where any kind of content is allowed and you are you've also got the sentence and that's directing people to that content and you built a system that's making money off of that content thank you guys have a little bit of responsibility now I agree that the question of who police is it or whatever that's an extremely complicated

did conversation but like that's what I'm saying about these companies trying to have it both ways they're trying to say we have no responsibility for what's on the platform but also we've allowed this kind of content to go up you know I don't know if YouTube profits on anti-semitic videos I don't know have an address I talked about in my show you have a d monetizing aspect of YouTube that affects people whenever anything is even remotely controversial controversial they've started they've started doing that up until like there's a case I talk about in my show like a year year or two ago where they were like running Under Armour brand Under Armour ads on like white supremacy YouTube videos you know and yeah and that was like their algorithm was causing their algorithm was causing that to happen right and these are videos getting hundred thousands of hits and it was like major brands and notice right on down oh wow and there's the title of these video like what kind of what did they say Obviously anti-semitic things in these are these were obvious enough that anybody would be pissed off about him yeah and

so that's where the demonization thing came from right because they're like oh shit now the people who actually pay us the advertisers are pissed off right so okay let's put a bandaid on the problem and let's demonetised videos right here's the problem now they're doing that they're just doing that algorithmically right they're choosing which videos to demonetised algorithmically so sometimes they demonetized stuff that they shouldn't that's doubly happened a ton and a lot of shit is still getting through the cracks you know and again there's an okay we did what we did what we had to know you guys didn't solve the fucking problem because now people are pissed off again right so that is the vine that these companies are in there based on this premise of we don't monitor moderate anything but when you do that a lot of shit comes in and now you're in the position where sorry it's still your how the shits happened in your house you through the house party dude likes like the base got broken it's your fault at the end of the day you have to take some responsibility for it and they're well how am I supposed to police two hundred kids I don't know you're the one who threw the party yeah you know that's a good analogy because it's the scale that's the problem it's probably more like 200,000 kids in it

totally because it's unmanageable yeah when you think about how many different people are on YouTube and how many different countries are uploading videos and you know some of them are Isis beheading videos yeah those those like there's a bunch of cartel videos that people have sent me to on YouTube and they stay up for a little while yeah you get to watch some horrible shit for a little while before they catch on or like I talked about these videos in my show where like the weird nonsense kids videos on YouTube where it's like people in Spider-Man costumes doing like weird Community Theater you know what I mean in like with Spider-Man Elsa videos or lesser so strain those are there's so many if you look at kids YouTube it's still so full of it like they've tried to stamp it out there's still tons of it and these videos like literally I show a video which is just total nonsense like looks like it was made by a computer it's just weird garbage doesn't look wrong until you actually watch it closely and then you're like this video is saying weird nonsense the video has 600 million views right and it's just garbage right and I have literally spent my whole life trying to make good internet content

it kind of the funny entertaining that people like and I can't get close to that number of hits and it's because the algorithm is controlling what people are watching right so pbl go drinking with people towards nonsense so that people are watching this because it has Elsa or Spider-Man or they're watching this they're watching it because there are five year old and the video was given to them up next by YouTube and the videos title and keywords and like content has managed to hack the algorithm find the weird Edge case in the algorithm that put it in front of those kids over and over it you seen the ones where they break down those videos where it's weird like there's always like a baby and alcohol yeah and someone always gets hurt from a broken bottle like you over and over and over again these things happen and they do that because it's sort of like they found that people make those videos have found how to hack the out because algorithms are not that smart right they're not brilliant things they're just like a little bit of code it's just like in a video game you don't have when you're playing a video game and you like figure out you're like oh the video game thinks that when X happens I'm trying to do why but now that I figured that out I can exploit that

right like figure out how to freeze that guy in place or just like when you're a kid and you could figure out a scroll the enemies on the screen in NES games go left then right oh they disappear you know you figure out how to how to hack the algorithm that's what the people who make these videos have done with the algorithm as well they figure out a little hole in the way that works and they figure out if we just do this the video gets shown again and again and again and here's the thing 70% of all videos watched on YouTube are being served by the algorithm 70% people watching a billion hours of YouTube a day so so people are not choosing what we're watching the algorithms choosing and the people the the videos the algorithm is showing us are the ones that people are like hacking you know like these weird fucked-up videos it's happens this algorithm yeah that is really interesting and it's also interesting these companies have figured this thing out like I don't know if you ever get you see like whenever I post something they're always be like if I post something on Instagram there will be within the first second or two four or five of these accounts that like you just going to pretend I don't have a giant booty and you like what

is this and you go to it and it's some weird sneaky sort of computer-generated thing where it'll say it on with a bunch of different accounts yep the exact same thing with Emojis and then you go to it and it's some ripped off pictures of some girl with a big ass yeah and then somehow or other the trying to get you but they've capitalized on this comment section right to find people that have posts that get a lot of comments get a lot of views and then they go right to it and then that's that's how they tap into it and that's my point of how this works right so Instagram set up a set up a comment system these people have figured out how to hack the comment system to get their bullshit spam on the top when I seconds I mean so fast they couldn't possibly written it yet like it has to be a program and that's and that's Instagrams fault for allowing that to happen the end of the day you know what I mean like that's Instagrams problem to solve you know and that's the problem all these platforms have that's a problem YouTube has a problem Twitter has and so whenever they say oh no it's just a couple bad apples it's like you guys threw the party you guys figure out how to fix it together

shitty Orchard son yeah yeah just a couple of bad apples I mean YouTube is amazing in that you know you really can be entertained with things like for someone who's into obscure things yeah particular it's one of the best resources ever like I had a career off of YouTube yeah I mean it's but it's also like if you want to watch old things you want to watch interesting things me you can find almost everything on YouTube including things that are not true let's this is like whether it cracking down on certain things like flowers videos it's a Library of Alexandria man like I remember there used to be like in New York I never actually went and did this but there was like a museum that had like lots of old archival TV you know you could go back you can watch out the first episode of Johnny Carson or whatever you know what I mean I was like oh that's so cool right now you don't need to go to that Library you can just it's literally on YouTube the first episode of Johnny Carson ever is on YouTube was the guest I don't remember I know that exaggerating I have seen it on the web I saw like his very first appearance sure it's up there or at least the early what you know because maybe the early ones

tape but it was like super super early he's got like black hair you know wow and so like you know every episode of The Daily Show ever is on the internet you know and so and you know say you like you know name sometimes sometimes I go sometimes I just go watch you name an old jazz musician you can won't go watch them play Live you know what I mean we watch the loneliest monk close-ups of his hands you know what I mean that's incredible that's incredible and so like and I still hope in my heart of hearts that like that is at the end of the day YouTube is serving a good purpose because we still have access to all that information you know my videos do pretty well on YouTube my videos aren't white supremacist you know Spider-Man nonsense they're good you know so hopefully they're doing some good in the world but at the you know so I hope in my heart of hearts that like you know this is still a positive force for Humanity I think it's positive for us but I think overall the problem that we're talking about whether it's prom with YouTube or the problem with the Facebook algorithm or any of these things it's people that suck that's the problem yeah it's not it's not people that are putting up videos

loneliest monk it's not you know someone making something educational on vitamins or something like that it's bullshit yeah the bullshit the problem the problem is people exploiting the system and using that system to stick nonsense or bad things up there but if you're the company that's allowing that bullshit to happen and you make money off of it right that's an issue you know it's an issue but it's also it's like part of it is really interesting to me like part I don't like the fact it's all this I don't like the fact that there's some ungodly number of kids that think the fucking World is Flat because they watch YouTube videos no one who is there while the guy was making the YouTube video go stop that's not true yes they'll show you how this is how you do it there you go there's the data okay next keep going stop that's not true either you want to fuck you talking about of course it works like that this is why it works like that and this is what it means did you see our video on the moon landing no this is one of my favorite videos we ever did so you know it's about how the moon land the thesis is the moon landing could not have been faked it would have been harder to fake the moon landing then it would have been too

actually go to the Moon because the technology to fake it did not exist like when we talk to a forensic film guy right here is like spends he's got like a he's got a fucking Oscar for you know analyzing old films right and he walked us through it he's like look the Shadows are parallel right there not diverging you know a close light source the Shadows would divert right so wait a minute you know that that's like one of the big Arguments for the moon hoax is that the Shadows intersect the Shadows indicate multiple light sources well that is because when that's one of the main argument that's that that is a I believe that's reflected light okay I'm getting past my memory of the segment dude I used to be a full-on moon hoaxer I fully believed we never went to my Shoulda brought this I watched the documentary that was on Fox TV while I was on Newsradio is like 1995 or something that I was fucking combine these radios on my feet my favorite sitcoms ever by the way

a unacknowledged classic I have watched the whole series like three times that show is so I'm sorry just go ahead and set this up well anyway back then Fox News actually aired a full one-hour show Kong called conspiracy theory did we land on the Moon and it had me fully convinced yeah there was all this shit that they showed like the same background being used in multiple Moon missions that were supposed to be on completely different parts of the moon like how is this possible there's supposed to be like nowhere near each other but they have the same background and that is it looks like the astronauts are on wires and it looks like the light sources are there multiple light sources and the the Shadows are intersecting and yeah you know all the fucking astronauts when they came back they did this Apollo 11 post-flight press conference and looks like they're completely full of shit I was all-in dude all in all in and now you're all out no I realize I don't know what the fuck I'm talking yeah that's one of the we all know

the problem with being all in with anything with anything but we also found that they did fake some things for publicity purposes photographs that were used that were photographs from tests that they did inside a warehouse with all safety equipment and then they blacked out all the safety equipment the background and pawn those photos off as spacewalk photos but I think that's overzealous publicist it doesn't mean no one went to space it's like making leaps is to put like well what's the simplest explanation if you did fake some footage well it's probably a bunch of simple explanations but overzealous publicist people wanted to show people video that they didn't have video of maybe the photos didn't come out so well so they fake some of them well let me let the the thing about the Shadows diverging my memory of this is we don't talk about that when people say they see the Shadows diverge right if you actually go outside on a sunny day when you have a single point of light like that with light reflecting you will see two Shadows of yourself going in different there's one dominant Shadow and there's a

a secondary one right yeah but if the shed if the sun is actually far away right for the main Shadow you will see the same Shadows be parallel right if you had a close light source like on a film on a film set you see the Shadows to Verge right so this film forensic Guy come on and tell us look if you wanted to get perfectly straight light like that you would need lasers you would and you would also you don't need multicolored lasers because at the time all that existed were red lasers right they had not existed they not invented anything other than red lasers right so NASA would have had to have multi like multi-decade Advanced laser light technology in order to fake this another part of it is that they just hired Q Burke thank you figured out no I mean guys this is Robin once what we demonstrate in our segment you know another part of his people forget the moon broadcast the moon landing broadcast was something like a six-hour live broadcast with no Cuts you know and at the time that was something you could do with TV but you literally couldn't do it with film right there was no way to record film as the sorry there's no ready to record

or TV at the time you had live TV and you had recorded film right so if they were going to record it in advance right and then play it back they would have needed a six hour long reel of tape so commercials and there I don't believe so and so they would have had to was they so we should probably know if there was commercials because that's their point game but you know you would have needed like an enormous film canister he's going to avoid an existent but if anybody is going to have an enormous film canister would be those fucking hoaxers at Nasa well done part of the premise of the part of the premise of the we didn't go to the Moon argument is that we don't have the technology to go to the moon so they faked it right but it's like okay well if you have to postulate that they had decades ahead of its time filmmaking technology why can't you accept that they just went to the fucking Moon you know so at the end when you go through all the things that would have to happen right in order to make it heavy really go through it and look at what is the simplest explanation the simplest explanation that we went to the moon because it would have been fucking easier I don't know if it would have been easier if it was impossible to go to the Moon

be insanely difficult to fake no doubt but if you had an incredible budget and if you had someone who really had the very top of the food chain knowledge in terms of special effects

what Kubrick did in 2001 when was that when was that when the 2001 come out once they like 71 or some shit yeah something like that ones that come out see ya look it up I goes earlier than that maybe 68 68 okay so we're talking about before the moon landings Kubrick had some pretty astonishing special effects in 2001 yeah but the the I mean the argument is that like even given again this is like filmmaker saying this right given the film technology of the time the specific features that we see in the moon footage are not fake able you know another part of it is for instance the slow jumping right the slow boom boom you know you're on the moon right the big argument that the Moon truthers make is that it was regular speed footage and it was slowed down right and there's this dude on I can't read the name of it but if you search for easier filmmaker on YouTube right knee just breaks down why I like the ability to over crank and like shooting slow-mo like that like didn't that wasn't how

some cameras worked at the time you know and so you couldn't are things in slow-mo back then you're good at you're good at asking questions because you asked me to get into details but I don't have a left on my head but that's the art that's the argument that the dude makes not one of the argument that we make specifically on our show because we only had six minutes so we will Fast once it's always an interesting argument when you're talking about the moon landing I also know about how much your audience do you think is going to be fucking furious at me for talking about this because they believe the moon landing was faked like 15% exactly gonna be my guess it's always a number man there's a number of people think that vaccines cause autism is you know I had dr. Peter hotez on here who is an expert in tropical diseases and autism safety and he's explaining that they've isolated 5 environmental factors that can contribute to autism when it's in the child's womb they've isolated genes they think they've got an understanding of what's causing this or how it's How at least it's happening but it's happening in the womb they don't think there's any connection

vaccines and autism they think there's people who have autism who get vaccinated in their autism symptoms show up but they were probably going to have those symptoms anyway yep and there's a human correlation that they make yep it doesn't mean that some people don't get adversely affected by vaccines because people have very strange reactions to all sorts of things because we very biologically it doesn't mean that vaccines are giving people autism and when you say that people go fucking ballistic and that the comments fill with hate and Zionist shill and this and that yeah this it's wild I get that shit a lot but but what we're doing here you and I are even if we disagree this is what I think is one of the most important things of our time is the ability to have reasonable conversation I agree and I try to tell people when they disagree with me because when people come at me with a lot of heat on the internet you know a lot of times I don't have time to get into it you know but I do like to occasionally you know reply and say you know some of the oh you're so full of shit like you lied about this and that bottom about you know and I try to

I say and I say hey thanks for watching the show you know I don't feel that we lied this other evidence says you know what do you think you know I try to take their temperature down you know and I don't match their anger is the most important part I'm like much nicer than their anger demands you know and that usually cool them off right away when we have a conversation you know and a lot of time when I do that they leave going okay you know what we don't disagree that much you know or okay thanks for talking to me you know yeah but the most important thing I say to them is even if I don't turn them around on whatever the issue was I say okay they say I'm never going to watch your show again because you lied about this you know because I disagree with you're wrong about this I'm never watching Shogun and I say okay why would you never watch the show again just because you disagree with me about one thing like I watched tons of stuff with people I don't disagree you know like they don't really mean that there's want you to feel bad yeah yeah child you know they're doing it this games yeah

follow a number watching you again unfollowed like does anybody think it's a good idea to only consume shit that you already agree with I think it's better to challenge yourself and to watch things that you that you don't agree with all the time I watch Fox News at least one hour every week do you really yeah it said watch yeah get an hour and just go what the fuck is happening you know yeah I mean there's a lot of you know they're like I want to know what white people are really up to there's a lot of time when they're around me they lie I need to know I want to get high with Laura Ingram see how she's getting in trouble for laughing at Nipsey Hussle 's funeral that was but very bizarre strange it's raining very strange to be that that laughing to be so dialed in to that look I understand when you're in when you're one of those hosts right you have a message you're dialed into it you gotta say that message every single day every single time you're like your monomaniacal

about it you know what I mean but to do that about about someone's death specifically bizarre you know and that sort of gives you sometimes I think that TV shows are like a curse you know like I feel for anybody who has to be on TV every day because they know their life Narrows down to that little camera lens and they can't have a thought outside of it you know what I mean so all those people Tucker Tucker Carlson Rachel Maddow Laura Ingraham you know what I mean like they like Chambers yeah a part from me disagreeing with you know some of them on various things I disagree with all those folks on occasion like to live your life right in that lens saying the same thing every night it must really impoverished your point of view in a way that's really a bummer and meeting rapist like yeah that's a great perspective impoverishing your point of view I think you're onto that I thank you I mean that's when I saw when I saw that clip of her I was like I can't I can't believe you know but it might it's to being on TV makes you crazy person it's probably does man and what with them with Laura

was also they just played a clip of one of Nipsey Hussle as videos for one of the songs that was called Fuck Donald Trump yeah and they were mocking the song and laughing about look it's not about the guy's art the guy's dead he was murdered in Los Angeles and obviously you look at all the hundreds of thousands of people that are mourning him in the streets they loved him yeah why do they love him maybe look at that maybe because he was giving back to the community maybe it's because the god became successful and still wanted to be in the community and help people out maybe because he was a positive influence on a lot of young people yeah so he had a song called Fuck Donald Trump whatever and the working and you know the worst thing I think what's that is on that song but it's not his house on his song whose song is it YG what is the one does ice cubes got a dope song about the president he might be like kill the rest the president might be called the rest of President pretty fucking good you know the worst thing that I could think this is new Ice Cube's new shit the the worst thing I think that people say is like

the perspective that she had was okay because he doesn't like Donald Trump he's not worthy of respect right I'm not I'm not going to be said he's dead because he said something to me about Donald Trump right Dad is such a malignant version of the way that so many people feel like the most frustrating thing people say to me is you know on our comp no comments page on YouTube this guy's a liberal this guy's a Democrat so I'm not going to listen to him like okay well first of all we criticize Democrats and liberals all the time on the show you know so those people are like do a responsibility like doesn't Adam Conover realize he's criticizing a Democrat priority and I'm like yeah all the time you know like we are we do not do a political show you know look I live in Los Angeles right I went to college I didn't vote for Donald Trump you know what I mean like most people who didn't all right so I'm going to I'm going to fess up to that right why does that mean that you would never listen to anything I ever had to say or that you would treat me with disrespect right because they're trying to make you feel bad bro you're talking about it right now so they win

fair enough fair enough all right yeah okay we can move off of it but you know that idea of someone who disagrees with me is like not a person who I'm going to listen to any more what a bummer yeah well people from all all perspectives and I think that's my goal even more Insidious what they're doing is they're trying to say this whole life that was just lost is this one clip that says fuck the fuck Donald Trump that's so stupid he's obviously a lot of things like that's quote mining you're taking a little tiny piece of some things that he did out of context and you putting it on your show and then you mocking his death and it's unfortunate but again I think it's these Echo Chambers these people think it's ok to do that yeah they know that the other people that are like them going to react the same way like what the guy had a song called Fuck Donald Trump I mean hey talk to her yeah and then they just get they all just repeat that and they think like that's like the people that were shocked that Trump won they couldn't believe anybody would vote for Trump because everybody around you would not see if you get stuck in these Echo Chambers you don't understand

other people outside see it yeah and I think that's what's happening you know with this it's a hundred percent sad so guys fucking dead guy was murdered yeah we did a you know we did a segment on guns right we'd end up selling guns and I always thought that I said at the beginning of our show we would never do an episode on guns because it's too divisive and just as we did the topic people everyone would fold their arms and these are you gonna do an episode on guns well you better say what I want you to say I'm changing the channel right and we but we did been doing the show for four years I was like I think we can finally do it and here's the thing everybody is wrong about guns that's the premise of our show everyone's wrong about everything you know if you think you know about something you probably don't and anything any topic that I do I'm going to tell you something you don't know and so we specifically did an episode that's about you know we had a you know a gun gun rights advocate of gun control Advocate I'm talking to both of them and they're both making mistakes right about it and that was the point was that like the thing that liberals not only say liberals the thing that gun control Advocates right often

to do is they failed to take seriously that the gun rights Advocates are like real people who live in the same country as them right who they need to deal with as humans right that like the NRA is has a lot of I'm not going to defend the NRA for a second right I think the NRA is a very extreme organization that is not productive you know but like the average Gunk and the average gun owner in your community right is a real person you have to deal with right if you're just in your Echo chamber and you're not taking that person seriously then you're not gonna make any progress right and so you need to you know gun control Advocates are in just as much need of Correction you know and just as much need of checking themselves and you know examining their own biases and you know getting closer to the truth as as gun rights advocate well particularly if you want to ever resolve it or come to any sort of an agreement you can't treat the other people like they're stupid yeah like you fucking morons don't get it okay that's not helping anybody and that

the issue with people that also get angry at people who voted for Trump they want to say they're all stupid okay you want to say that half the country stupid that's not a good idea it's not smart yeah I want to say by the way reason I said I went to college I didn't vote for Donald Trump not because a lot of college lot of people want to know is did vote for Donald Trump the trend is that they do is that they didn't vote for him you know so I was trying to say I'm in a different demographic but I don't want people to think about the trend line I believe so yeah hmm I mean that's sort of how it breaks down like people you know people with Bas or higher tend to tend to vote for Democrats so I'm just like given a nod to the demographics here this is how it works right I got to wrap this up yeah listen man it was a lot of fun can you believe it holy shit 305 for a while thank you oh you got the call I was wondering what time it was why this has been a real by really appreciate that we got deep on some yeah it was fun man thanks thanks for coming on appreciate it and tell everybody when you show is when they can watch it Adam ruins everything son TruTV we got episodes on Netflix new episodes are coming out probably around August don't have an exact date yet but we're having our next run of a time not that many more years thinking do this you know

hopefully everyone out of stuff and check out my new podcast faculty continue and no no sorry hopefully pretty soon we'll know whether we're doing it were between we're waiting for a pickup right now he's doing it yeah I love doing the show look I'm going to be doing what I do for the rest of my life no matter where I'm doing it so oh that's a good way to look at it yeah okay awesome either way Adam thank you so much man thank you everybody

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