#1354 - The Black Keys

Sep 19, 2019

The Black Keys is a rock band formed in Akron, Ohio, in 2001. The group consists of Dan Auerbach and Patrick Carney. Their latest album "Let's Rock" is available now everywhere.

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code Rogan promo code Rogan for five bucks off your first order from door - my guests today are two of the baddest motherfuckers in all of music pretty much ever give it up for The Black Keys The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day

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boom and we're moving moving gentlemen all right good seeing moving thanks for being here thanks for having us I'm a gigantic fan we're very know that but now I get to tell you in person I'm a big fan of yours man well thanks you've become my weirdest say in the way her you've become my my late night television I don't watch I don't watch like you know Jimmy Fallon or anything I'll put on your podcast on YouTube

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just watch it just blew his fucking mind look at it and I did but you're also like my own also like my Oprah and I was thinking that you need a whole cast you need like a Gayle King and I do I'm willing to be your dr. Phil yeah I need a science advisor I definitely need a real on on staff scientist to check things like dr. Oz now he's not real and as I'm saying you need to you need to know I need a real one okay but doctor has he got in trouble for selling horseshit right didn't he get brought in front of Congress assumed all these people will kind of unqualified for their doctor feels actually really good guy yeah he's actually a real good guy like one of those TV judge bailiff cops that stands in front of Judge just got arrested for murder no yeah really yeah dude that's my favorite of all the kind of reality shows is like the Judge Judy bail of character like the guys that's right judge you have do you think like a

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DEA agent that eventually wants to try Coke what the bailout yeah like you just rounds I mean he's probably a real bailiff right so he's probably around so many goddamn criminals man I don't think that they're real bailiffs I haven't I haven't got that he's a fake bailiff I just assumed its Hollywood man and mmm true it's probably the same outfit from Night Court a complicated gig you could just hire an actual cop that way you're doubly protected you have a real cop that's standing there yeah really yeah really doing it and then I'm sure they can do that gig just find a guy was nice that's up I think that's a much higher paying gig than a cop yeah and with you know give a copper break well with that type of money comes corruption and you know that's true that's right that's where it gets ugly all the other cops get mad at them they set him up yeah they plan to plan a gun on a plant some dream is what happened to this dude let's imagine that you're talking about set up this is you guys set up could all kind of like permit for the fucker got a hundred fifty Grand a year

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put the fucking gun on him you guys been paying attention to OJ on Twitter no not me like what's he doing it's one of the strangest things ever he's just talking on Twitter just talk about like football and politics and the the comments are just the most ridiculous shit everything you would expect I'm sure you can't read them the comments are just filled with just murder jokes yeah really no not his comments you know his comments like under his like his his thinking says thing that under is this all the people that comment on his post it's all just murder Joe as long as he's not making murder jokes I guess no my friend has the largest OJ Simpson t-shirt collection of the free OJ juice is loose in the world and he had an exhibit here in La a couple years ago at a museum like a hundred 50 shirts pretty pretty amazing

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but you know I like to follow on Twitter which I we were talking about earlier I don't really look at Twitter that much but I do like Jose Canseco a lot until you yeah what does he talk about is just like crazy it's just extra crazy and he's offering like a for $2,000 you gonna spend the night and in a tent with him and like look for bigfoot oh my God yeah it started with him when he shot his finger off and then it fell off you know he's tweeting about that that's what piqued my interest when I was 19 years old I worked at a place called The Boston Athletic Club and Jose Canseco in some other baseball players walked in it's an amazing how big he was he was huge of got a huge person you'd just gigantic man now it's so handsome look like a professional wrestler looks like a fake person yeah really didn't even look like a real person just a giant handsome super athlete came in to lift weights on my huh how fucking weird you know like you want to he's one of only four people I think that has 40 home runs and 40 steals

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jeez in the season I mean he was on steroids I think always looking for bigfoot he really isn't he said I am a Bigfoot expert and the most famous Bigfoot picture or video ever taken was a costume the individual wearing the costume is none other than Andre the Giant check it out I don't think that's true I think that's pre Andre the Giant's career in fact that picture was from the 60s that's the Patterson-Gimlin footage will Andre well I'm a giant with a live there are you saying Jose Canseco doesn't know what he's talking about I'm sayin I'm gonna go out on a limb he's incorrect here have you seen what Andre the Giant could drink and average follow yeah it's incredible yeah we had Jake The Snake on Jake The Snake used to drive I mean he had amazing stories about driving on generating how smoke with your designate yeah drink like 24 only 24 beers in like a half hour the way his hands were so enormous that the beer they didn't even look real they look like a minibar beers you know his hand just covers everything look he was so

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which Butter Sock I like Jose Canseco I'm like well there's no fairness in this world the sound of fairness how about me and that kind of the same species this is no fairness in this world well good interest you learned early yeah it's a good lesson to learn hmm it's a good lesson yeah it's like the first time you really get dunked on yeah and he's know that can happen to you too bitch nothing is important to kind of be reminded of the like your position in society and the world I when I was at when I was 10 or 11 I was listening to the getting driven home from a little league game by my dad who's one of the sweetest guys ever right and we're listening to the Indian's game and this new this new shortstop with the time was terrible name Jay Bell like dropped the ball and I think Dad I bet you owe me better shortstop than Jay Bell I might have stopped the car Patrick I love you so much but you're 11 and there's no possible way but there's only like 50 professional shortstops it is there's no

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way and then that's it I just was like oh my God no but I realized that moment like man my dad's Never Gonna bullshit me that's kind of cool that's very cool yeah that's very cool yeah you don't need to be bullshitted he pulls the problem is there's a problem a lot of kids today they've been bullshit at their whole life to really oh yeah you're the best you're the best son you are better than him like to go and take that job it's yours well there's a lot of wacky people to their living through their kids you know they're like all their expectations of success of now been turned on their progeny oh yeah you know they give this think they just want their kids to kick ass go out there fuck kick ass he'll slow down yeah fine line yeah how do we get a Coke Jose Canseco's Twitter it's crazy huh it's crazy it's a while dude Wildman I mean it's cool that a guy that

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let me his life story is incredible if you have had them on I'm guessing the know you should have him on oh my God that would be great bash Brothers yeah I'm just tell who exclusively bash Brothers stories people are always going to be mad at him forever because the steroids thing right because he told them other guys that was on it is other bash brother was found out Mark McGwire mmm I don't know man

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I don't know much about the the I mean I know the difference between doping and steroids room but I kind of feel like if you're I don't know about steroids necessarily but if you're if you're riding a bike across France and like

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I don't know I was like feel like you should dump a little bit I'm not doing it someone needs to do it well doctors have actually said it's probably physically safer to take the steroids if you're going to do something like Tour de France because it's so insanely grueling on your body that you want to be able to recover hmm But we have this weird thing it's like there's a thing that makes your body work better but you're not supposed to take it if you take it we get mad at you but we want you to do good we want you to do your best but we don't want you to take this thing you could drink yourself to death yeah we're never going to stop that but we don't want you taking steroids because then you'd be too big and you hit too many balls like what but how come you did everybody do whatever the fuck you want everybody or nobody yeah it's the cheating thing the thing is it affects kids that's where it gets dangerous is because you if you find out oh my God these guys just openly do steroids and they tell you what they do and then middle schoolers will be doing it yes that's a real that's a real fear the real fear it's a and because that's that that would happen because there's middle

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is that are professionally like competitive sure all over this country kids in high school do steroids yeah I mean like I mean also you just you do a bunch I know somebody did a bunch of steroids and he was describing to me the process of that he literally was doing anyone a bit get big you know and I was like so what do you do what do you do when you're big you think you got well you got to start taking these estrogen blockers and thanks all this stuff out of what the fuck he's like yeah if you don't if you don't take your body stops making testosterone and I was like what the fuck I think well that's what I mean like it's probably controversial statement but I like what Bruce Jenner said that he liked like did steroids for breakfast I mean do that you think that like depleted his testosterone production they don't I don't I don't think they believe that there's a connection between gender identity and testosterone levels I think they think it's a wiring issue for lack of a better term but

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there is always a thing that happens to people if you take steroids that your body has this inability to make its natural hormones and so you get depressed it's like a depression time and could be really funky for a lot of athletes is that we're like his Jose Canseco's out there looking for bigfoot is it because he's just needs to clear his head could be he also had some MMA fights he might have got his brains knocked loose like he he had one MMA fight against his fucking big giant dude what was his name early early MMA no it was after his whole career thing had gone he got it he had a fight with the was it hong-man Choi it was hong-man Choi hong-man Choi is huge so him just accept this fight is crazy let me tell you about a guy that's like yeah hong-man Choi is like literally seven feet tall Jose Canseco Jose Canseco's an enormous guy I recognize him from movies he's not enormous compared to hong-man Choi hong-man Choi was a professional MMA fighter

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for some really really tough guys in Japan so it was a total complete mismatch but he needed though he needed the chatter so he stepped in you know that looks like eyes of choice that looks like when you have like a real GI Joe guy and then like the generic GI Joe guys it looks like he's fucking found Bigfoot and even though I can say Co still a fucking Gorila I mean he's a stout man super powerful gigantic man but that just shows you how big hong-man Choi is he get he got pummeled yeah I think he blew his knee out if I remember correctly I think he threw a kick and he blew his knee out and then hong-man Choi but pounding them into Danny Bonaduce to yeah it was it just oh no did he really I just saw a picture of him standing together all the rain God he's so much bigger than Danny Bonaduce he's really huge guy right there

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let there and oh my God he did Danny Bonaduce is crazy so he's has his head looks like it's been photoshopped on boy and it wasn't that cancer it goes brother wasn't that his brother posing as him Newport added up oh my God he's not though yeah but I mean no he's not even it's one of those that's one of those shirts that you put on it's like a rash guard but it's got tattoos on it it looks like your tattoo doubt I wish our brothers would start posing as us yeah I don't think that that was can't Seiko I think it was can't psychos brother I think it was like found out later is it like how Gallagher has Gallagher from we're talking about that Gallagher to look at that guy that's not can't say go his name isn't mentioned in there I was like damn EIEIO I mean he's still a big giant dude to make the only way this story the only way the story could get published as with that resolution of photo axles

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but do this that crazy you don't know if you look at Facebook or if you have it but I do have it I keep up with my high school friends and my parents friends and stuff and the amount of stuff I see retweeted or reposted I'm from the left and the right is just so crazy man these weird fake websites with the most outrageous and they'll you can tell that you know most people know it's fake is really one like and everyone's just afraid to acknowledge to the port like your uncle man that what is that that's not really Jose Canseco man well how about those you won't believe what she looks like now websites you know it's not like CNN you go down the bottom of CNN dude that's my Instagram I scroll back a couple of years I'm like what the fuck happened to me I fucking quit smoking I got like 35 pounds I've got went gray and like fuck man how much does smoking affect the way you feel not smoking is a I feel amazing

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but and it was a weird addiction I had heavy addiction how many cigarettes do you smoke in a day a lot man like two packs easy whoa for about for like 18 19 years ooh that's a lot I know but and I had a baby coming and I just I just set a date and no books no no no anything no pills are instead of date and I bought a 12-pack of beer and four packs of cigarettes and went into my studio and just smoked every cigarette and drink every beer and is felt like shit

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I'm purpose knowing that I wouldn't want a cigarette and I never smoked cigarette a bow but I did gain a lot of weight I mean chicken Parmesan tastes a lot better when you're not working cigarette it's like you know I don't know you have kids I had my first kid last year and you end up you go through that you know I think most people go through these just realize like oh shit like I'm almost 39 I got to stick around for this this kid and I cut the bullshit so that's what I was that's what motivated me to do it it really affects your taste buds huh I think it affects your metabolism you know lat makes you Speedy right it makes you speed it makes it satiate your appetite yeah you don't I eat like normal Wheels now and I've gained weight but before I realized I was just like barely eating food my friend Tony smokes and he went down to the jewel then he quit that too totally Tony hinchliffe and he would smoke cigarettes before I shall I go get me one of those things I got was that

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for you I will give me - thanks and I'd let it and I hadn't smoked a cigarette in you know more than a decade and I'd last time I did I did it for like a play I couldn't believe how high I got I'm like oh my God this gets you so high yeah like it's crazy huh yeah but it does the first couple and then he's the dragon once you're back in there yeah you're not getting that but it's it is amazing like on its own like what the the hit that you get from cigarette I'm like holy shit I feel great well I do like I don't I feel like every once in a while it'll be in a situation where we go man I actually really do

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want a cigarette but instantly I'm like that will mean for me by a whole pack be right back on it although I would like as like well maybe maybe I'll go to give myself one week in the year or just torture myself and allow myself to look forward to that one week in the year smoke some cigarettes if they deal with yourself I think that's possible I think I'm capable of it because I do have pretty good willpower I mean I was able to quit just like the people that would be like addiction specialist will tell you that you're fooling yourself you're fooling yourself buddy if I try to pretend I'm an addictions let's say I'm addiction specialist come on you don't need it yeah and I know God without this long look how great everything is I know I mean but that you want to go back to why do you want to open up the but then I would open up this door to this whole thing of like why do you need anything that's a good point made and then it's like it's like it because it's fun and if I could do it for one week and it to be less harmful than everyday yeah I mean everybody has addictions everyone's full of addictions what

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it is like I'm addicted to sleep I think that's my biggest addiction is like I I'm like well that was a big my biggest fear really about having a child at how am I gonna sleep what I what I need you know I mean like freaking out and to this day I'm like I'll get up to take my stepdaughter to school at like 7:00 and then I'm like I come back in the house and I just sneak back into bed and I try to avoid having to wake up to take care of the baby I have excuses ready to go like I got so much to do later today and I think a couple more hours that's a good thing for your body yeah I don't know if people get that so that's a good addiction yeah solid healthy addiction I think if you don't get enough sleep it's the worst thing for you I mean I've now that's when I feel the craziest me too I feel like everything's barely keeping it together you know functioning like 70% I know that I know when I've reached a wall of exhaustion's like when I go to like I need a nap and then I lay down and I just have a full-on like existential crisis like all so stressed I get really stressed

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I'm tired yeah hmm But yeah I mean the cigarette once so weird because if you think how many people are doing it right now listen to this smoking a cigarette all of them know it's bad for him but everyone's just drawn to it just a weird and it kind of represents that you're having fun represents your your you know your free doing whatever the fuck you want smoking a cigarette I know it's bad shut up I don't know I found it it's only like that once when you're like 15 not off and then in this endeavor like that again and then it's just an addiction will smoke I do smoke a cigar Bones on that and I think that they're the thing about that similar between the two aside from nicotine is it because you don't get much nicotine from a cigar it's like not near not comparable you're not at all but it is like you're okay it's like I'm telling myself and everybody around me like fuck off for however long my I have this time to myself yeah I mean so it is like it is like a

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it is there's that aspect to it and I don't know I mean I think that if you marketed cigarettes right man you can get every motherfucker smoking because you could just say like it's like the new coat cacao nib is like this is like Native Americans use this shit yeah this is natural antidepressant get on the fucking this doesn't have any any chemical no chemicals is there a difference as a cigarette smoker between the high you get from like an American Spirit or you know a hand rolled cigarette versus like a cool you know you just get I mean when you're smoking cigarettes you just into your brand and I got I actually bought a jewel based on a recommendation from a from a friend years ago so long ago that I may follow me on Twitter like they must have looked at who was buying this shit and I was one of the few people that was verified or something it was two thousand fourteen or fifteen and that's when I knew like when I knew that I could not be vaping I hate it and I was like hey you look like an idiot but be like

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it's like temperature thing for me it's like it's too hot it's like fucking gross and it's like might as well just not be smoking drinking to smoke that the jewel thing but it's weird because my my stepdaughter right all of her friends like fascinated by the jewel specifically hmm it's like an epidemic with these like high school kids that want and I'm like that's a funny joke until you all get addicted to cigarettes because that shit's fucking real but also some kids are having problems with the oils in their lungs right I don't know yeah there was yeah some kids are enough you can apply for not moving around that's why just from looking at your iPad all day I think there's are saying that they'd grown some sort of infections their lungs they damaged their lungs I don't know if it's true though you know it's like one of those stories that I just looked at the headline and I didn't look into it at all it's Facebook one like post now it's Jamie do you know is that legit like did have people really experience severe lung disease associated with

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Is that real they're trying to link it or has been studies saying that maybe this is from it because there's some sort of this pool that didn't but that's why this the it's probably just the cigarette lobbyists trying to shut that down well it's the number that's weird like not that many it's like a couple yeah like what are they doing I don't know me but I don't think I don't think that the government should be regulating that kind of stuff I mean this is right make sure it's like safe but it shouldn't outlawed and saw the California or someone well it seems easy for kids to get that's where it gets weird it's like the reason why we keep kids from cigarettes I don't know it's not fair to get them hooked on something that's that physically addictive that young when you're so your brain is still forming you know it's like a sneaky trick if you can keep it away from kids at an early age but it makes them feel cool man well I mean is it I mean I feel like

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I don't know I mean I feel like we'd wasn't that hard to get when we were in high school but now it must be way easier I don't know do you think is easier to get weed or cigarettes if you're in high school

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California probably weed I mean people people pee I know people here that like when I was smoking like oh my God I can't believe you smoke and then there's like the smoking a joint I'm like fuck off yeah fuck off and I'd rather drive around in their Tesla I'm like that's the coolest fucking car but what happens when you get like a 300-pound battery full of heavy metals in the dump like a hundred years from now I don't know what the fuck happens look like knows what do they do with the metals from the batteries well I'm just saying yeah like these giant that's in the jewel I'm just not I'm saying like I'm just saying man that the thing about the Tesla and all these electric cars I think that they're really smart and cool but I but the idea of having to filter all these Rare Earth minerals into one place that much all right the first time that's ever happened it's a good argument well I don't know I'm interesting argument had a we had a buddy who died who had Leukemia and bone cancer actually and the doctor his doctor who wasn't a quack I think he's at the Cleveland Clinic was like this

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from having too many heavy metals in your system that's how you got this is like your your heavy metal are out of control and then the doctor said did you grow up near a mine and the kids would ask his parents he's like what's this about and I'll yeah we had you on a commune in in a in Colorado we lived there for your first year of life in a mine but like an old mine was an old mining town oh Jesus instead of that's probably what it came from I don't know I don't know I'm talking about man I'm wrong but that that makes sense that you would get that from a mine I mean if it gets in the air because you're filtering like the heaviest Metals down so you're like if I don't have you ever been to like there's a town what's it called Jerome Arizona my wife's from from Sedona and near there there's this little mining town called Jerome's really cool like kind of touristy spot but there's this giant slag Hill I mean it's its massive and it's just like all of the all

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the shit that wasn't copper or gold or silver but with heavier and sinking to the bottom when they're looking for that stuff and then they throw and that's the kind of shit that's the rare Earth mineral stuff that they make you know cadmium and whatever else lithium so it's just laying around well it's just you're when you're in these mining towns what I said which would concentrate it because it was all the stuff they wouldn't use it in the waste it was waste is way stuff so did they know has anybody done some sort of an environmental tests to find out what effect its had on the water or the I don't know man the soil I don't know we'll find out I know I do do I had severe bone cancer because he grew up in an area that was irrigated with like different pesticides they put pesticides down I got into the groundwater and then quite a few people in his neighborhood got cancer and they made a correlation who knows if it's a hundred percent what caused it but bunch of people got similar cancer so yeah that's how my dad died my grandpa was a landscaper and he used to he had a plastic bucket

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he would take the pesticides and he'd fill the bucket with water put the pesticide and mix it with his hand every day oh Jesus he died of bone cancer so same thing well I've also heard that lung cancer a lot of it a lot of it is caused from actually the fertilizer used which is and when you it's like a plump ammonium the same shit they used to kill the Russian spy you know it's like basically like it's the isotope of lead I think our and if you get over heated up it becomes this ice W and over years of smoking your body builds up small amounts of plutonium eventually you know you know and that mixed with the carbon the radioactive carbon isotopes of smoking you know that's why I mean I think figure that out I'd still be smoking if you could just give her those two things well it's a just figure out some sort of stem cell spray can in their everyday and heels 100% all the smoking damage how many people go back with a smoking

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it would heal the brain damage the smoking give you brain damage I mean like Jose Canseco if he has that that would be cool here thinking they maybe someday able to regenerate tissue and in the brain but they've never been able to prove that they can do it it's just a theory they think they could regenerate disc tissue to and I know they're doing studies on that like the spongy stuff in between your spinal column they think they could regenerate that stuff with stem cells but there's no no proof yet but it's exciting stuff I mean this is excited I personally prefer to ignore all all medical stuff because it freaks me out I went to the doctor like to get a I think it a physical the first time it was just based on me like I quit smoking I've gained some wait let me just get me just figure out where I'm at and we also needed one for our tour so I think Insurance yeah we had to be physical for insurance and I went like nothing what's up with this like how's my heart look in the woman literally the woman was murdered I can't get this other I don't I think I got it right the EKG thing is like

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it looks really good I think she's fast she's and then I did some blood work and like yeah looks really good there's some high levels of this and that and like what's that we don't really know

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but just will check in a couple months and as I came back like yeah I think you just gained some weight but we're not really sure like basically I don't know I mean I've seen medicine save people's lives before and then I've seen also like it'd be like you know see you know

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they basically it feels like they still don't know what the fuck is happening in your body a lot of times yeah so it's like it's best to like probably avoid a lot of that shit like if try try to avoid getting sick definitely if you can that's my medical advice that's solid advice well I mean like I went and they told me that I had this like elevated liver enzymes others never drinking beer something like no actually it's just like

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it's not it's not even like that's out that would be different to be the opposite of the what's it from like I don't know don't worry about it and I think I went I went to this other guy who like be like okay yeah you've got some fat in the liver and I was like is it cuz I gained weight because that's why I'm here in the first place and I probably that's it I think what should I do about it like just losing weight if you can I think he just likes once he gets physically she's been laying it awake at night just I'm just like stressing out now I'm like how much I like I'd be better off not getting this physical so I could have diagnosed myself being a fat ass myself like I don't need this shit what do you know what you needed you needed someone who's a doctor but also can take you several steps down the road for this is what we're going to do here's what your plan is what it's all about bedside manner man it's all about that because look I had this supposed to be like look if there's something really that you really need to be stressing out about I'll let you know but otherwise all stress out for you I'm like what that's how I work out

► 00:35:39

if I know there's one thing that and like you know someone really close to me had a really severe life-threatening episode earlier this year that was very fucking traumatic for everybody involved including myself and I ended up gaining like 20 pounds in a month basically 15 pounds up from this and I haven't really been on Shake it and that's what led me to the get this physical but watching this thing happened to this person is very close to me was like

► 00:36:09

I was like what the bedside manner was just like insanity because it was the first time I've been in a real someone that wasn't didn't have a like a long-term illness just like life its life or death and it was like there was no there was no comfort in it was like oh yeah at any minute this person could die for like five days I think is there anything you can do it I can no not we've done everything just you know just sit tight is it was like fuck yeah it's like yeah yeah you think they have PTSD do you think like emergency room doctors have PTSD they have to write oh yeah well you think well the idea that this one percent is sit me down and tell me what was going on and like the look in this dude eyes it was like he looked freaked out

► 00:37:03

but he he he wasn't calling me at all you know I mean it was right but he also didn't want to lead you know he couldn't pretend it was going to be okay but yeah I kills conversations with someone I can't imagine today multiple times I can't imagine yeah people get mad at you sometimes oh man I can't imagine it's that is I thought I could never do that job I think we don't think of them as experiencing it dramatically because their doctors we think they should be able to handle it right but I mean they're just they're also humans who are seeing dead humans like those consequences affect every one of us with you when you look at that all the time I don't buy that you don't experience some form of like intense stress I mean I've experienced intense stress from doing the thing I love the most which playing playing concerts and I mean I've experienced it firsthand what it's like and that's way different when does it hit you like when obviously come out like telling someone they're fucking loved ones like about to fucking

► 00:38:04

die but do you still feel manage all this trip for me it's all about just being in the right headspace hmm you know I mean like when we first started playing we were play these indie rock clubs you know cuz we come from that background like

► 00:38:20

I guess what they would call now hipster shit or whatever and that was just people who like you know really passionate about certain types of music that wasn't Massey appreciated you know which is still kind of what we're into but because that most of the people that were coming to our shows were like the high fidelity type record store clerk you know you're playing a show and it's just like arms crossed but afterwards a pretty good you know we'd be little we bake 2222 oh kids and the The Gatekeepers were like 30 you know 32 year old now I would look at them as put me being like

► 00:38:57

you know the supportive but at the time it was more supportive but at the time it felt more like judging hmm so if I get in the wrong headset said headset headspace and I'm on stage I'm like I'm a different shirt like judge judge us or something hmm you know I mean like what you're looking at this big crowd but then I have you know I ultimately do ultimate tell myself as like the worst band of all time has probably played the more more you know like some terrible like minutos played the more people you know I mean like this isn't that many people like like tonight we're playing The Wiltern like there's like three thousand people it's like this be honest like the worst stand-up comedian like I don't know or I don't know man like that like V Jonas brother could sell 5,000 tickets in La probably so it's less stressful when you when I like or Gallagher to could buy sell 3,000 fucking tickets in Los Angeles come on

► 00:39:50

that's how I look at it you know I'm like oh we deserve to be here more than that and personally we put our time in that's a hilarious way to look at it serious well why would you concentrate on things that you think that stock is that alleviate anxiety does it actually work no I read this thing that Captain beefheart one of our favorite musician said and it was like if you start if you think about what you're doing you've already lost the battle and the the reality is that I don't need to think about and I know Dan doesn't it we don't need to think about what we're doing so because we're not thinking about what we're doing like the trick is to stay in the moment with music but I can play and not think about it and then I start thinking like what's up person fucking thinking about - like I'm like I got another conversation happening here and like it wasn't like an intruder yeah there's like luggage I liked it like temporary schizophrenia Pat what if you just stopped playing like a devil angel yeah there's like I actually remember thinking that on stage at Glastonbury like you know there's a tune

► 00:40:49

thousand people are close to that and I just stopped playing like what would happened in Sonic by the ready maybe don't do that don't do it just keep going yeah he yeah pets are had a almost had a breakdown it and Lollapalooza one year we both it was intense for both of us actually because you know what it was I mean you should tell a story I mean I just remember it from my point of view I don't know I don't know what was going on through your head at the moment five Red Bull yeah he was getting into this thing where he would be really anxious and drink a lot of Red Bull oh no and so we got on stage and it was like a sea of people and he was on his fifth Red Bull and his eyes were like saucers and he's staring at me I had to like talk him off the ledge right like I did like put my foot up on the Riser and kind of lean in and kind of talking a voice calm voice hey man how you doing you know what

► 00:41:49

I mean I was just I was just exhausted really I'm like what do you want to do whatever you want to do is cool me yeah what is let me know you had to call me down how many Red Bulls does it take before it becomes speed I don't I don't drink that shit anymore but you know I think we also have been playing these shows and it was exhausting yeah most of it had to do with our schedule our stress and it was the middle of summer was hot as hell and I would think I was severely dehydrated but but I mean I was because we played this one show in Des Moines right around this time this was in 2010 right so this is this is when this happened was at Lollapalooza 2010 and this is a festival that we had played like four times before so it wasn't like something new and we weren't even headlining this time it was just like we were on stage doing something I'd actually looking forward to the show but this is like a pivotal moment for me it was like

► 00:42:40


► 00:42:43

I just kind of missed a beat of a song something that no one else even noticed other than probably Dan and that's a whole shit and I got like I spun out and then I just kept spinning out you know I mean like a penny like a panic attack on stage and when you have like a panic attack like you know

► 00:43:00

you tend to get a panic attack doing the same thing you did before so I for a while I was having a pet like little mini panic attacks every time I was on stage but I've got through the set and everything was fine but it's like fuck you know part of it was that I looked out and there were like 50 thousand people we've been playing this festival for five times before to like crowd starting at maybe 5,000 people and now here we are the Wake most of the festival's watching us play it was like oh shit like what's fuck's happening finally people are here and that's like can't fuck it up now and then like boom but you know I went to go see I went to go see this dude here in the in LA in Santa Monica and I'm Carrie Gainer who like he specializes in like hypnotist I mean look man I didn't know what to do wait is this get so good luck you come on dude I didn't know what to do because I didn't like a couple friends are like Bandits get some beta blockers get some get some Valium

► 00:44:00

bring some be Riley I can't doing that shit before I go I can't be relying on that for I play those like I I got a recommendation to go see this hypnotist who specializes in like quitting smoking and fear of flying and also stage fright there's a lot of like actors who are going to do like plays for the first time so I went to go see Carrie

► 00:44:24

it is house and we were playing some shows at the Palladium and he did this thing hypnotize me and the second night I went that first night we played it was like better the second that we played it was like pretty much gone and then I woke up in the hallway of the Roosevelt Hotel and a stairwell in my underwear at like 7:00 in the morning and I'm literally in this in the in I'm in the staircase in my underwear 7:00 in the morning and I am like what the fuck and I just remember like this number like 708 I think it was a satellite that only been to the room 1 to 2 times and never and my girlfriend at the time was in there luckily and I went and knocked on the door she took what the fuck where the fuck were you going I said I just don't know

► 00:45:14

hypnotism it's real cheese have you ever been hypnotized yes yes did it work yes yeah there's a guy who's on yesterday actually the name is Vinny schwarmann he hypnotizes a lot of Fighters okay and he has his fight yeah he gets them into this it's really interesting like I've never had it before and I wanted to try it I was like okay I had these thoughts that was probably bullshit or for people who have weak minds but it's a state that they can talk you into and someone who's really good like Vinny could talk you into this state and then you're totally conscious but you're definitely you definitely in this weird tunnel where you feel safe like mentally safe it work and you can talk and think about things in a way that's almost free of normal regular anxiety you can you can address the anxiety you can see it but it's for the brief amount of time while you're really in that state you can get rid of all that shit this dude very weird

► 00:46:14

this guy Carrie I remember a couple things specifically that he said and I went so that he said like you know you're you know you're afraid of messing up they that's the whole point of like being in a rock band is like it's okay to mess up it's not supposed to be perfect you know me Perfection isn't something that anybody even wants you know I mean like if you go to like art gallery and you see like a Thomas Kinkade painting no one wants that shit you know I'm here like he's like he was telling me all that he was talking he was telling me this shit like he was like basically like you know your personality is you know everyone's flawed we're human beings it's okay like yeah whatever like you're not supposed to be perfect here you have no desire to be the you know there's no drumming competition you've entered you know I mean and I was like I came out like yeah fuck it like I'm supposed to just be here having fun and it worked and then I got really nervous a couple years later when we were supposed to play the Grammys on TV and I just got

► 00:47:14

in fucking nervously out about it and I think I had nervous because it's just it's like one of those things is not natural for us right it's like we're going to be playing music on stage with all this pop music and stuff that has nothing to do with what we're about but we couldn't say no we have I think we had to do it because we couldn't just knock it till you tried it but um we adapt to the Grammy performance before and it

► 00:47:39

and it was atrocious I mean it really is like so alienating for it means especially when the big pop stuff comes out it's like what we do is is something something different you know I mean

► 00:47:51

so I went to go see him before we play the Grammys and he he he did this whole thing as a while I was hypnotized and I remember like he's like when they tell you 30 seconds you're gonna start three seconds till you're on you're gonna start smiling when I get to like 15 it's going to get bigger when I say for like you're talking about stop smiling and I was like Anyway the shit for a fucking if you watch the video I'm just like smiling the whole time and the minute that and the minute the song ends like I just dropped my drumsticks and like get me the fuck outta here I'm never doing that again but it was I will say it was like I think it's the best TV performance that why you never do it again because you never perform at the Grammys again or you'd never get hypnotized again I would get him sighs again if I need it I just distress just a stress this is the stress of doing us doing I mean I think this will do the Grammys again pop possibly sure you know but it was like at the time

► 00:48:44

you know it just seemed like unnecessary stress and then like this whole all this I think I had a couple issues about the Grammys because the first time we ever went like we won two Grammys it was like this is the weird thing we go and are the words that were nominated for were given away at the pre telecast this is the first time we were nominated for Grammys this is on a record brothers so we're there like February 2011 and my brother Michael was nominated for Grammy so he for record cover of the year for our record so Mike wins a Grammy first right off the bat first award of the day record cover Mike wins gets down to like the alternative rock category we win like rock performance of the year or something we go in the Staples Center conference area whenever we go collect our Ward and we're standing on the side of the stage and they say next up are the rock song of the year

► 00:49:44

they list all the nominees including us so we stay there because row nominated for this award and I and also Neil Young for whatever song you like so Neil Young winds that and it like this is Neil Young's first Grammy Award and at that moment I was like what the fuck my brother Michael has had a Grammy longer than Neil Young I like that's so fucking crazy I'm like lost two Knuckleheads have to and then we go and we win a Grammy right after him we went out alternative album of the year so now we have more Grammys than Neil Young with intense 10 minutes chema and I was like this is all kind of fucking insane isn't it like none of it makes sense I start looking at none of my favorite bands of fucking Grammys like The Clash dumper fucking Grammy Clash don't have a Grammy no so I'm like what so then anyway I'm thinking about this the whole day just like this is insane I mean it's exciting it's cool but it's also like it's a it's like it means a lot less when your favorite bands don't have great that should have them how does the Grammy work is it well way I was going to finish this thing real quick

► 00:50:44

because this is what the apprehension I have about the Grammys is like this

► 00:50:49

day ended with us going back to the hotel we're staying at which at the time was the Chateau Marmont and TMZ was there and it popped out like we tried to like just avoid the their Warner Brothers has a party there we're trying to put all of that stuff just to go hang out with our friends and to and a camera a little bumps out at the Liquor Locker right there on the corner and like the guy asked me he's like how do you feel about Justin Bieber not having a Grammy and I was just like I'm sitting there thinking about The Clash you know I mean and like Justin Bieber he's got I would like I'll sell him my Grammys for all the money he has basically what I'm trying to say like the motherfucker should be happy just to have a fucking career

► 00:51:30

um I said something like that and I wasn't it was just like I'm not you know it wasn't even like it necessarily A knock-on Justin Bieber's just like that's my response to the question think about something else and I'm getting a car we leave and then the next morning I wake up to a tweet this is right at the height of the anti-bullying shit too which is like you know Justin Bieber like don't bully my friend he's like the drummer from The Black Keys should get slapped and that's the time I was like thought it was the funniest fucking thing is that Ramen but I was like you know what I can't deal with any of that shit like I don't want any of that shit and so I realized like that's that was my experience about my apprehension about playing the Grammys all came back to that was like what is the fucking Grammy what is this shit like where does jerk in ourselves off then congratulating ourselves does anybody watch this shit really cares about us I don't think so but also what if there's like twelve great

► 00:52:30

bands there's only one of them win the Grammy of the year right is this second place third place there's anything like like like the idea of judging art is always weird but to judge like one you got one you pick one at all these are awesome it's also like it's it's you know ultimately it's no different than any other election it yeah like that year that we were nominated for album of the year so was so was Jack White so are we split our votes you know I mean like someone that someone had to either vote for us or Jack or like Mumford & Sons it's ultimately complete nonsense it seemed it seems like it perverts the love the of the thing because it's like what you guys do is awesome I love your music but I feel you're like I just want you to do it you know just when there's little contests and this is number one and this one's this and this is the band of the year and the album of the year like says who and why is it a

► 00:53:30

tests can it just be this is awesome shit here's some different awesome shit why we didn't yeah I would in bundle that was the whole motivation behind this record was like

► 00:53:40

it was to not not partake in the current bullshit in the music industry which is so check this out do you mind if I explain it please do okay

► 00:53:54

we had a conversation with our manager about this record right you know released with and it like it went from everything like we have family we don't want to be on the road for a hundred days this year we don't necessary want to do anything we don't we don't want to do anything we're not excited about you know so it came down to the promotion and stuff and it was basically is that we want to get in front of people and play our songs and have fun you know and and the conversation came up with about the actual album like Warner Brothers was interested if we wanted to bundle it which is when you include the record like with the ticket right and a lot of people have been doing it whether you buy a T-shirt and you get a record and it's a digital download link and I think we'll how does that work and I well you you would get five dollars from each ticket back to Warner Brothers

► 00:54:47

and then you would get a record sale and I was like that doesn't make that doesn't make any sense to me and to Dan and they're like yeah well you would you it's only way you're gonna get a number one record so if you want a number one record you got to do that and I think well I think well so it's 1 to 1 like we get 5 bucks back and then we get a royalty and we get a ticket sale right now you don't get a royalty and you only get a ticket you only get an album sale count if they click the link and I have like we have a 50 percent click-through so in other words we would pay $10

► 00:55:25

per sale on Nielsen soundscan

► 00:55:30

by giving the money back that we sold on tickets to Warner Brothers to a record label I was like fuck that fuck that shit at this point that is a crazy deal check it out we've sold 250,000 tickets on this tour so we would give back 1.25 million our record of ants for this record was less than that

► 00:55:50

so that so it I was like if Dan and I were just on our own record label we could give ourselves five dollars per ticket and count and we just keep the we just take the money from the right hand to the left hand give you a link if you counted it we get the sale we keep the money that's basically what the fuck was going on you know what I mean and it's all based on fear like all of this shit's like do you want to be relevant you know that's basically conversation that this is basically being had not that direct but it's like as an artist you better try to get it gets good numbers get that first week up there and Dan I were basically like fuck that fuck it doesn't even fucking matter people are going to come to the shows when they're not going to come to the shows we're going to make records people are going to buy them they're not going to buy him and I think that is really it's detrimental to the music industry

► 00:56:39

like to to pay to close attention to certain metrics man's like the the whole system right now with these Majors is like signing shit that has the most social media interaction the most streaming and I was like you know what when I was nine years old I bought Vanilla Ice's Ice Ice Baby and I listen to that shit like I'm not joking like 250 times in a week like a fucking idiot I like that's who's listening to this shit this getting a billion streams in a month it's like fucking nine-year-old more on that our fans our fans have like you know they got like a hundred and fifty albums that they listened to on a sort of rotation at least an arse maybe one of them

► 00:57:24

a month I mean Sam it's like it's a different fucking audience you know I mean it's you look at Instagram and he sees these certain people I've never even heard their music they and they have like 10 million followers yeah the other thing is that that there be any comparison at all like why why bother comparing well that's exactly right that's exactly right but that's the problem is that there are two different things at play at play here there's the music into industry itself which is like certain people who work in Industry higher-ups are like we need to sell records we need to we need like this pop producer to work with this writer and this artist and we need streaming numbers and then there's certain people you know like the old guard like the Lenny weren't occur or Seymour Stein or you know even got lots of younger guys too but you know they're like actually what we're doing is curating art that we really like and it's either going to sell or not going to sell and a lot of the records that we grew up listening to most of them

► 00:58:24

we're records made by these kind of insanely eccentric weirdo people write the never sold records but have changed what it changed our lives and like Captain beefheart being one of them you know like Tom Waits is as has sold some records but still like he's it's much different type of commercial viable thing but these artists are why we make music you know it has nothing to do with this shit it's like the difference between like the voges you know what I mean and like the fog's it's like there's a lot of these comparisons that you can make about what we do in our place in the music industry is is is to do what we what we do and for a while we were taking part in like the mainstream aspects of music you know me we were playing like the MTV Movie Awards and having these insane weird experiences only because we hadn't done it before we felt like we had to do it and I wouldn't I wouldn't want to change anything but at this point like I think steer steering is far away from all that

► 00:59:24

shit this is what we want to do right now there's no reason a lump you in with anything like why would any you know that's one of the weird things about these award shows right your lumping all these different musicians together that don't necessarily have anything to do with each other just all make music check it out it's like we played the MTV Movie Awards in 2012 we got offered to do it we watched it we were kids we were an hour late already it was like whatever Aerosmith came out and introduced us and now I'm thinking like why would they agree to do to be on MTV Move Music Awards like what are they going to get from that whatever the whole thing was kind of bizarre you know I mean it's all really bizarre it's like they they need to be in the spotlight ER or something you know and we were just like I think we kind of realized how goofy was while we were there but we got an insane experience because we hanging out with Johnny Depp and Joe Perry and Steven Tyler and after and this is crazy because after after the after we do this song wherever we're out stage but out backstage by

► 01:00:24

trailers end up I'd like see Steven Tyler and Joe Perry and Johnny Depp talking we walk over because we just want to see what they're talking about and I'm just like well I'm looking at the shit they're all wearing the craziest assess accessories like they're dressed up like you know

► 01:00:40

Arc types of rock stars remember and they're like talking about and Steven Tyler and Joe Perry talking about transport outer going to get their Arsenal across state lines and I was like what like yeah man week we travel with a goddamn Arsenal as I quite like yeah and AR-15s we have fucking grenades like this is insane oh my God I think it's worth it we're here today just to hear these guys feel like they need to travel with grenades but then I was thinking about their have you ever seen have you ever seen their video game no dude the Aerosmith video game I didn't know they have did it if you watch their video game after hearing this conversation then I were privy to you like ah this isn't this makes complete sense good and never made sense to me it's like the Terminator arcade game where there's like you know back in the early nineties it's that puts them

► 01:01:34

it's like a fucking insane should put the put a clip of that here we go this is his game that's the oh my God they're right there on stage there yeah then it brings up a whole nother thing which is like okay weird after the bottom after the bataclan shit like this is a real fucked-up game to look at yeah seriously oh my God right yeah when did this come out though this is got to be old as fun anymore for oh my God that's hilarious

► 01:02:04

so there in the background playing and then in front of them War seems feasible they just started Aerosmith into a game that looks like it's called cocaine psychosis but that's like the worst effort ever they just stuck them on they don't even look good the kidnap him oh no oh hilarious that's part of the game they kidnap him oh my god wow this is terrible it's amazing that we back down we're like this is so radical look how good the graphics are you get used to everything

► 01:02:41

that's hilarious Steven Tyler's the nicest fucking guy ever yeah he said that they were really nice to just like I didn't realize how to travel with weapons I didn't know they travel weapons we never discussed that such a nice guy though yeah I met him at the Ryman in Nashville backstage to what else restocking great place that is the right that's like one of my all-time favorite places yeah so cool you just feel the entertainment in the walls it's like it feels like it's a building that's been entertained you know what I mean I mean they did the Opry there for how many years I don't know so many people play their just it just feels special every week there's something special going on there it's so cool it is cool you know it's great that you openly talked about having these panic attacks because there's so many kids that I'm sure who are huge fans of yours who also have panic attacks and they can't fucking believe

► 01:03:41

Eve that you guys it with your level of success could still have these little battles you know that we've all had so that's so huge that you're willing to talk about that and say that that I'm telling you that down is definitely going to make an impact on people you know I mean once you have it like the first time I ever really had a panic attack

► 01:04:01

I had one and then I kind of didn't have another one until this moment on that stupid envelope loser but the first time really was in Amsterdam on the way from Amsterdam to London Dan bought some mushrooms and I guess they're illegal there I never I didn't damn bottom and brought him on the we were traveling in a van at the time and they were giant fresh mushroom not even dried no man it was like a meal and the he bought him he like you guys you should take some you should take someone I like the stem and it was massive I mean it was like eating a burrito another and after like 20 minutes after 20 30 minutes is like I don't feel I don't feel anything to dance like MC fucking rest man I don't know I eat the rest of this thing as massive as they it and like I just it's like you're sweating it smells like portobello mushrooms seeping for my skin and I yeah I yell to the driver I'm like starting to spin out like how to how to

► 01:05:01

get this to stop he turns around he only wore black and his shades on and I thought I've rethought time he was like Satan he's like drink loads of beer and I'm like what the fuck and I just like in the back just like fucking like freaking out for like two hours and finally we stop I'm like we gotta get the fuck out of this van this is this is in 2003 so long time ago and you white knuckling your gold girlfriend and that we get out and like I think I just think it's the fresh air man unlike we stopped at this gas station in Belgium and I walk into the bathroom with Dan and they're like this woman's like speaking in French like you know they basically saying it caught other what the fuck she's what's happening daily it costs money to pee here bro another what is like I know man's the crazy and I'm like fucking freaking out and I'd all I had was like 50 euros and I put it on the tray and Dan grabs it and puts it in my pocket

► 01:06:01

get in the puts like a nickel there to doesn't cost that much to pee and I like and we both start laughing that moment and then it I turned the Edge from that and that and it was an amazing experience we started being like laughing at like how clean their dumpster was like this bright like the even the dumpsters year clean it like bright red you can eat off it yeah but he eat you could really truly dumpster dive here to be eating a regular meal and but I but I got that panicky thing right there the top and I swear that show open it up for me man there's no natural light in the back of the van also all the windows have the really dark dark 10 black tent oh so we were just in this Panic van yeah you need to get outside yeah I remember when the sliding door won't open it was like when they went into Willy Wonka's Place yeah all the light came in and and then it seemed like it was crazy because when we got back in the van three fucking hours later like our drivers like dude we gotta go think we've been

► 01:07:01

for 20 minutes he's like it's been three hours of you guys look flat talking about this dumpster and I was like no way so we get back in and danced badly out of nowhere his girlfriend I guess maybe had the time he like do you want some bubble gum and we've been on tour for a month and I never seen this bag it was like a trash bag full of Gumball and I'm like oh my god what the fuck's happening like this listen to some music man so he put on NWA and I was like we both started laughing I was like it it sounded like Fisher-Price music like so plastic and brittle and like it dude out of this is so bad this is so awful and then he put on captain beefheart safe as milk and it was like the most incredible sounding record I've ever heard

► 01:07:53

it was fucking insane but it was that experience that first opened up me ever experiencing that like what the fuck's happening like kind of fight or flight but for no reason panic attack thing and I think yeah I right I deal with it mostly but I just when I'm on stage I still get them occasionally if I come in too fast so he's saying that it was started from that trip is the first I've ever felt it man wow do you think you broke something in there I just think I took way too much I'm really sensitive to I'm really sensitive to getting high like yeah I just it's not in my system it's not it's not for me you seem like you could have been a comic hmm have you ever thought about being a comic I don't think I could I like bullshitting though but I definitely I know I don't know if you say funny shit man you funny observations in your things you have a Mean Streak I'm dancing I'm dance personal comic that's basically it yeah yeah is a common but yeah the you think

► 01:08:53

that was the first one and then from then it maybe it was opened up the door and because you had one it makes it easier to have another one is that how it works well I was exhausted that day because when we were kids we were kids partying for I was I'd never been to Europe really we were in Amsterdam I smoked weed the night before which I don't do we were drinking and I barely got any sleep so it's super shitty feeling so every time I'm like basically tired I'm more prone to that shit and it happens like at the airport you know like the airport to me early morning flights are just

► 01:09:30

always kind of felt like that was really hectic and like everything's fucking moving around and tired like fuck this is a fucking miserable and festivals sometimes they're so crowded and like but now I haven't had them I haven't had a problem with them really but at the hypnotism shit worked so yeah it's legit if you can get a good one a good person who can hypnotize you can put you in a state of mind and sort of change your course just give you a little adjustment just been in your perception I look at things it feels like you're in like a little bit of a tunnel it's very strange right it is it is strange I think it's like when people go see like a life coach maybe that's what they're looking for yes isn't test some positive reinforcement yes I think it just gets in there better it's like it the gets into the operating system better than a guy going what you need to do pack is prioritize it's like a that we're looking at Instagram so I was like man I'm just so happy I don't know there's people kind of like this call yeah type of mentality

► 01:10:29

Instagram is a whole there's a whole scene there nobody self helping man just like gotta Senators as like every one of these kids like went to a boarding school and like disappointed their parents well it giving people advice exclusively as way to live it's a strange way to go you know you gotta do things too like a lot of things yeah you think it can't just be have dreadlocks well sometimes people think that the message is all it's important that is that is most of what's important but what's important is like but how did you start doing this did you just decide to be a motivational guy and you've done anything else no right uh School motivational guy that's seems like are you just repeating shit do you really know that much about how to get your act together or are you just kind of you know there's like a lot of repeating shit yeah a lot of repeating say and I've repeated it myself I've like I've been sad things myself that our motivational things that I've heard other people say

► 01:11:30

and it's you know because they're real it's effective you can help people but if that's all you're doing it's not a suspect yeah it's also was that when someone has a continuous message it's always the same and it's always positive it makes me really suspect because I'm liking this self-help guy on the Metallica documentary who was offering the lyrics yeah that's the best movie ever made probably about music it's like it beat spinal tap is like if there was a competition I have to come down on some kind of monster it made me actually like the I've been made me as a fan appreciate those guys in a weird way their dysfunction like they became

► 01:12:13

characters one time I watched the movie a big man like Lars is so annoying then I watch it again like I'll still think Lars is annoying but I like I still think he's right or so I have a different of you every time I watch it yeah but ultimately I do I am die just I end up liking this guy's because of it more he stepped out in a big way with that Napster things it was an odd moment for everyone because everyone was trying to figure out what is this file sharing thing how's it going to effect and then the music business you guys felt it first like you guys were the big hit more than anything because it's not the same to watch a movie on your TV even if you can download illegal movie I'm sure we'll have a little bit of a hit but people want to go to the fucking movie theater but with your shit they can once it starts people start sharing things you just you just get a file and everybody kind of just assumed that well I mean this is like this new frontier and it's not really stealing your just

► 01:13:13

not being it's just you're not giving them money for it but you're not really stealing got this this weird sort of and large was the first guy to say hey fuck you you're stealing like this but it was a weird fight to have because it's in you know hindsight is always 20/20 we know what the internet has become since then it's incredibly difficult to try to keep a wrap on things and to keep things to like keep someone from downloading things like they just get there so there's if you have songs they get out there you know whereas the Napster thing was the first time this was happening and he was the guy who's is really really wealthy guy who was a huge success saying don't do this like that this is stealing well yeah the David versus Goliath type of thing I mean clearly people shouldn't steal but is it Metallica's job to tell people that maybe but maybe maybe they should have gone directly to Napster or to the record label but I thought you know when streaming for

► 01:14:13

our started becoming like a real thing we had a talk with a friend of ours who basically encouraged us to look at it and not do it and I went into with our manager went from talking to someone at Warner Brothers and said we didn't want to do it and they were like kind of outraged and like you can't not do it you can't not do it and

► 01:14:38

I didn't really know that time but I found out a couple months later that they I found a couple months later because I would I was quoted in Rolling Stone talking shit about like Sean Parker and Spotify and it what happened is I end up getting a phone call or an email from from Daniel Eck the owner Spotify and we had lunch together and he's fucking cool guy he's a nice nice guy very intelligent and I really saw his side of it for the first time and he basically without explaining it directly was like

► 01:15:09

you know that he's paying our label to get our music what they do with the money he can't control these are really like that at that moment I realized oh yeah there's some stock being floated to these companies which there was billions of dollars of stock was sent in the label has no obligation to give you negative us they gave us they gave us a couple hundred thousand dollars of it out of the billion because they paid it to us in a the way the label does they paid as an artist royalty and it took all these deductions off of it and it was a made up number it's there's a lot of money in the music industry right now you know and the problem is is that it's like not okay so my favorite bands

► 01:15:53

for the most part don't have hit songs they don't get played on KROQ they don't have like a Macarena type shit under that's going to be coming their way you know me than that and that's what pays money is like because they treat almost every stream the same it's like there's a different race royalty rate for if you pay for Spotify and there's a royalty rate for if you're listening on the free service but what they need to do in my opinion is they need to say this guy is a Joe listens to music he has good taste in music he follows five hundred bands which means that there's no possible way that he's going to be listening to all 500 of those bands in a even a six-month period of time but when he does choose to listen to a song it's worth like X liked an axe versus this person who's listening to Old Town wrote a thousand times a day even your because Joe is like actually engaging with our thing and not just streaming the song for free and like a monkey like you know like a Pavlov

► 01:16:53

no whatever mouth salivating every time they hear the little little little Old Town Road wherever I was I look at my Spotify thing and I'll go months and I have all I pay for all of them I have like YouTube Apple whatever I don't have title but that's because they didn't they gave ownership to like 12 artists and her like fuck you what the fuck is that just keep the ownership and pay a higher royalty you fucking cocksuckers honestly so I'm like so anyway I look at my Spotify listen to like I was like a hundred songs a month it's barely anything and I'm like the way to really do this it's fair is you take my ten fucking dollars right and listen to a hundred songs that's it because I've got so many ways to listen to music that you listen you take that ten songs and you give every body

► 01:17:40

ten cents

► 01:17:42

but that's not the way to do it there like we pay point zero zero zero five six seven cents per stream how could you fucking know what you paid for stream if you're if you're a distribution service do you see what I'm saying yeah I'm giving you $10 and you're going to take 30 percent off the top like apple music used to do when you would buy a CD and then you take seven bucks and throw it towards the artist that would make sense to me but they don't they're like they're paying there's keeping all this fucking cash or there to keep it in a pile and then at the end of the day they're just satiating like you know Rihanna's hundred million dollar check she gets every year you know I mean I know a lot of artists who just they get checks for like two dollars and fifty cents for a whole year on a record that normally would sell like five or six thousand copies but there's no neat that you have to basically be an idiot to buy a CD nowadays

► 01:18:30

you know because it's a digital file that you ultimately could download from Spotify on your phone and have it with you forever yeah you know unless you don't have the internet you know if you're in Alaska or North Dakota maybe you need to have a CD so so few people are printing CDs then it boils down to how much of an infrastructure do you need as an artist who did how many people do you need to be representing you what how did your stuff get out there doesn't it does it get I mean especially with you guys doesn't it just get out there because I mean I just found out about you guys because somebody tweeted it I got my oh who are these guys I'm not worried about us man it's like the new bands coming outside new bands trying to break it that's what I'm worried about yeah it's like we're fine but it bums me out but I mean for anybody in the business how much of an infrastructure do you need in this digital time well you just need someone to figure out how to get it to people I think it I think in a way it's like when we first started our first record deal

► 01:19:30

what's with a small label not far from where we are here and the deal was this give us 12 Songs pay for the recording yourself

► 01:19:39

will Master it which is the final process of making a record to cost a couple hundred bucks and we'll send you 50 albums and we'll give you like 12 percent of the money we make that was it and while and then we're going to have a five hundred dollar marketing budget that was that was the that was the deal you know I mean so we basically I mean we made this record paid for it ourselves and we went on tour with this agent named Ralph Carrera booked us a tour like kind of a mercenary agent who would like book he booked the label I think paid him a couple hundred bucks to book us is tour and it all kind of started steamrolling you know I mean but we had no infrastructure we had no management we had no agent we had nothing we just kind of got in a van started going and I think in a lot of ways nothing has changed except for that when we got to the second level you know the set like it there was a couple thousand dollars there for us to make a record there was opening slots that you know touring was a little bit different than

► 01:20:39

but I think we've always kind of done it in a way that was pretty DIY and the way it's the same way it has to function now the only difference is there's fewer record labels that are going to sit there and give you $15,000 to make a record and maybe give you 10 grand to help you buy a van and that's the hardest step that's that's the threshold where things bands are having a hard time getting through you know once you get through there then it's like then you get to where we were four years which is you're on a bigger label you're making records and no one's paying attention to you the only reason why we ended up getting attention paid to us I think by Warner Brothers was for our rec are six record Brothers

► 01:21:23

it was a kind of a heavy time I just turned 32 and just turned 30 and you know when you turn 30 it feels like you've gotten old you know I mean and like especially in the rock and roll business and we had this good this record I thought was great and I went into went to talk to lyor Cohen with our manager this will be ours is one of the guys heads of Warner Brothers and I was like we're like that were the most succinct band on Warner Brothers which is when you get a song on a TV show or a movie or a commercial I think there's no other band for the last two years this had as many sinks as we have had but we have now I don't even know who works the radio department at Warner Brothers we've been on your label for like four or five years and Leo are basically like that fuck he prioritized as like that week and for the first time was like we're going to work on your van

► 01:22:16

and when that happened that's when the Lollapalooza shits that's the radio KROQ everything fucking changed yeah I mean it took us six albums and it took us all those sinks all that shit all getting called sell out so it's time for a while for Gavin our songs calling himself the same dudes that were at our first shows with their arms cross sell out the funny one you still doing the same music stupid to say music I mean it's not that I think that for different I thought it's I think that a cut for this type of thing it comes from that idea that like maybe like that band like there I liked it better when it was a my secret my friends and I decided I don't want to share it with this dude that's why I like it's dangerous to have your song in certain things like if your song comes on in Walgreens you better watch out man like that's a red flag good we've had opportunities to have our songs sent to like top 40 radio

► 01:23:13

and there was this thing where like if we if we won record of the year for Lonely Boy Warner Brothers was going to service that song to Top 40 it would have never probably been a hit but if we would have won that Grammy it could have fucked a whole band up I've seen it happen with lots of bands like you just kind of it just like you become like play school level yeah but do you really think that you guys would change just I think you feel dude it's not checked that we would have changed but the thing is is like you start accessing like you start accessing you start you start acquiring a fan base that's more fickle and maybe more annoying I mean it's like okay I should not like I bet you as a Cubs fan like a custard cago Cubs fan in 2017 was like fuck this world series shit every motherfucker wearing a fucking Cubs hat do you I'm saying yes and and I don't know exactly what that food feel like that's probably the same things like

► 01:24:13

someone's going in there to get like someone's going to get shaving cream and this band that used to play it like the fucking cast ball in San Diego is playing at while checking out like they're probably like fuck this fuck this listen if you guys put out the same music that you put out in that time period it wouldn't have mattered your music is it's it is it's you guys you know I mean it's not this even though you've gone experimental and you've done different styles of songs and some of them feel more bluesy some of them fear more rights like it's still Black Keys If you guys just did that it wouldn't matter what you were on nobody gives a shit I had to do give a shit fuck them I had a big realization this is like a couple years ago I did this record this guy from Cleveland Ohio named Glenn Schwartz is guitar player I used to go see Glenn when I was in high school when I was 17 he played at the

► 01:25:13

please call hoople's in Cleveland Ohio and I guess you just tiny little place he was the original guitar player in the James gang so he like Joe Walsh says he's first Psalm in like 65 or something and he was like on somebody's shoulders in purple bell-bottoms no shirt playing electric guitar solo and he said Joe Walsh said that that guy made me want to play electric guitar wow you know and this guy used to go see him all the time and he would play these songs which happened to be religious which is just like another story but it sounded like Cream Crazy to her anyway two years ago I had him at the studio and

► 01:25:54

it was all these memories were flooding back of all this like heavy electric guitar and seeing Link Wray in Cleveland Ohio and playing in the basement with Pat and it was all at the same time and all of the sounds from the first Black Keys records were coming out of this he's almost like 80 years old playing this fiery electric guitar and it was just like

► 01:26:15

it's who he was and he helped me become who I am and as soon as I finish that record I called Pat and we made this new one and it was with that Spirit was like and it was just the two of us and we never even talked about working with it we didn't talk about it we just put it in the books and we got together because I knew that we I always know no matter what happens Pat and I can make music because that's just who we are we don't even have to think about it

► 01:26:44

whatever the fuck you're doing keep doing it exactly the same way what you've done is you mean you've some of my favorite workout music of all time favorite driving playing music Center's the kids one of my favorite right about the get on stage songs that's cool that's one of my favorites too often love that song that's that's the funny thing is like when you start look like sometimes I just nerd out and I start not like what I'm just like sitting at home I look at like play counts of songs that one is one of the songs have been recorded like this is one of our best songs and it was one of the least purchased least it's like it's like but it's funny I think it's fun dance papers to it's like fucking great song most of the stuff that you know that's what's important about music is it's just to do what you are good at what you feel yeah let you connect to and I think that I guess that's ultimately I'm trying to say is that like it's always been this way where it's like there's always been this noise of like

► 01:27:44

you know Annoying Annoying bad kind of mainstream music and the problem is that because everything is getting streamed on the same platform and there's no more in like there's less independent record stores there's less yeah there's no College music Journal there's nothing everything's kind of compared to it's like you know you listen to like the new like purple mountains record which is a guy who unfortunately passed away this summer friends of ours David Berman I mean I think it's just maybe his greatest work right and that the record has a cup maybe million streams or something and in the end compared to like whatever Drake is doing its gets lost is completely lost and I think that there needs to be a better way to highlight this stuff it's still crazy to me that there isn't like a website that I can go to as a at a crazy music fan that I think is curating music that I actually

► 01:28:44

here and I we both have really like open Minds comes to music but there isn't one thing that's just like highlighting stuff from the underground from mid-level Rock have you ever thought about doing something we've talked about Rollins does it Rollins does what does he do every Sunday he's got a weekly show where he QE picks all the music all obscure cool shit you know weird old Stooges songs you know like whatever he wants we both have the radio shows on Sirius Radio currently in

► 01:29:19

yeah I don't know man I don't think I don't think many people actually even listen to that the thing about the series thing you have to listen to it when it comes on yeah if you have it on something where people could just accept as access it anytime its heart it's also hard because I think that they're part of the problem actually serious yeah like the way that they program that the four five rock channels like there's a channel on there called the Spectrum Dan has a show in there and it's like the AAA Channel which would be like KCRW here or whatever like Morning Becomes Eclectic I trying to think what what song it was that exactly that I heard but they started tapping in the like this just be a format that's highlighting like

► 01:30:04

you know I think music that's current music that's coming out you know I mean like and they're playing like a couple of U2 songs on there the other day and like this is a band that plays the Rose Bowl why the fuck are you playing them on the fucking AAA you fucking asshole you know I mean Isaac seriously and then I go and I look to the alternative station and alternative station is playing like pop music you don't mean like like literally pop music and then you go to the alternative Channel and they're playing like five or six artists or the Indie Channel there's like there isn't there's like almost there's I don't know there's an under-representation of of I mean I think you put it this way I went to France this summer for a month we always want to take this trip my family and I we went to the south of France rented a car and I decided I didn't hook my phone up to the car for weeks I just write my turn it on I scanned the radio and I heard a song I liked it what the fuck is that on this channel called radio Nova

► 01:31:03

it's Nationwide not digital terrestrial station on in France I heard the song of it what is that man oh man that's like a new song by a Damon Albarn from blur from a record called Africa Express I never heard is amazing the song I think how is that not played anywhere in America I listened to this channel every day for the whole trip and every single day II heard maybe two songs in like 21 days that I knew it was all knew it was all current some of it was classic but even the classic stuff is like a Janis Joplin something I'd never heard it was like true I felt like I entered a different dimension and I came back to the US and I put on my satellite radio like why am I hearing the same fucking bullshit there's so much good shit out there and even when I go to the algorithm my algorithm on Anna I was sitting with this guy named John Vanderslice other days well-known Indie producer we were looking at our algorithms are predetermined Spotify

► 01:32:03

and every single thing was something that I listen to all ready except for one artist and it was it was something I didn't even care for like it's all the technology with all the ways to hear all the millions of songs on Spotify they still haven't figured out how to satiate new like someone's desire to hear new music do you know do you think it's because they try to program those those channels strictly to be commercially viable they just want to make money from it and they feel like if they put you two are an old Elton John song on it you flipping through the channels you'll stay on it either if it doesn't match the format that you're looking for I think I think that they've gotten their ass so far into metrics and statistics yeah they've stopped any sort of actual curation using taste and the only way you get to something worthwhile is through taste I mean like really the opposite process that should take place it should be you build the the art up and then the business files behind it but instead it's like you have this giant

► 01:33:03

is that you have to keep feeding so you just keep you have to sell more and have as many channels that are commercially viable as possible whatever our numbers man I've had a show on that chin on that I've had a show on that with that company for five years I do it for free I don't get paid five years every month I had this one artist I worked with as I really think you should consider this for something that you might want to put on a playlist really like this isn't some Paola shits with five years I've like they're like she doesn't have the social media numbers were looking for oh God I think you know what that means that your what you're adding is just some dumbass it's good at social media like I mean yes I mean that's that's that's what qualifies you to get on the radio then we're all fucked and I think they should have a better social media so they don't have to think about that so when they find a new artist that's great you pump up their social media with your social media and then you put them on your network and people tuned in and if you have a trustworthy list of people if you continue to recommend really good artist I go oh

► 01:34:03

holy shit well I think I think he's got good taste I think that you're not I think that the social media thing is a lot of it I mean I think it's

► 01:34:14

it's fake the numbers of the because the numbers are fake I think that you know there's this there's a couple of these like kind of like I don't know I don't want to name names I don't talk shit about you but it's like it's like this form of music that I it's like pop rap

► 01:34:31

thing that it's always like some white dude with tattoos all over his fucking face that just came out of nowhere and like there's always like there's social media is always like man I've cleaned up my act so glad to be alive and bringing new music too soon but the never had a hit and but like they have a 500 thousand likes on this shit look at who's liking it it's all like Mindless kids you know I mean not to say that that's bad but I'm saying like you can't as an adult like programming radio station look at that like this means something you know I mean this seems we have to put them in jail I mean honestly was if you go back to 1991 right to when Nirvana's nevermind came out like they didn't have that they the equivalent of social media should have shit going on they had a fucking song that this knocked it right across the fucking face and because the programmers are looking at these other dumb metrics yeah they're not going to get that song across I mean like Billy eilish I think thing is pretty cool actually

► 01:35:30

and but I think there's there's a billy eilish to be found every month hmm and I mean it's not that there's so much good music and the to go to have to go to France to hear American music on the radio is is insane well why don't you curate something like this and put it on the internet it seems like a simple solution you have such like strong tastes and you have a love for this kind of music and you're already doing it on serious 4-0 money that's why we're here Joe we need someone to give us a the opportunity well young Jamie's gonna he'll help you we got it all say speaking of young Jamie we're playing a festival in Vegas on Saturday OSHA and Little Wayne is going on before us oh shit which isn't the first time that's happened that's a good story well do you like him yeah yeah yeah I would never met a person whose music is cool but we've got big Wayne to come out with us are you have afterward oh okay wait Wayne Newton oh no shit yeah we lay in Vegas well we got Lil Wayne before us we have to have big

► 01:36:30

with us so we booked that Wayne Newton is he going to sing a song he's insisting long as one lonely boy holy shit holy shit you should you should time your psychedelics to be thinking right about then to that 12:40 a.m. that sounds amazing I know oh my God played this festival with Lil Wayne call it was called the Virgin Mobile Fest and it was a it was a free fest yeah Baltimore yeah tickets were free they paid us they pay bands well everything that's due just played we got to hang out with the Stooges and like which was amazing because we're backstage and like the Ashton brothers are sitting there chain-smoking like arguing about how to change like a catalytic converter I like this is so fucking Detroit man made and they're so real as this is fucking yeah I was like fuck me I was in all just like this shit is like and then a couple hours later we Little Wayne's supposed to go on the same stage

► 01:37:30

us right before us right for us and the the stage managers like absolutely no buses near the stage so we will because it was a horse track it was like a you know well-manicured horse track he couldn't pull a bus on the track so we had to park our shit like way across field wherever and where we go over on the golf cart whatever and

► 01:37:51

he will Wane supposed to be done he's not even there yet and we're like what the fuck's happening and then so he shows up the bus rolls up right to the stage right across the track giant giant like dents in the track and him and like I'm not joking 30 of his friends get off the bus probably and just immediately go right to the stage everybody except for Lil Wayne music starts playing from like a CD player and they play a whole set they are a whole set and we're supposed to be on at this time so we're like look at the clock like our sets almost done and they're they're still playing like the fuck's happening and then it all ends with like him him getting an electric guitar and like I don't even know what the fuck he was doing but it wasn't playing it but it was loud and it was like people were I think he thought that like he could pretend to be a guitar player at a festival and people would understand it like with just not know that it wasn't good and I was just like this is fucking

► 01:38:51

crazy like and kind of half the crowd kind of bought it I'm like which is also good for my anxiety was just like don't even have to be good anymore guitar but then we're like you know like this are sets what time do we what do we do now know the stage bands like well obviously you're going to get paid more like obviously and I we could need to play a full set or three songs like

► 01:39:20

no one paid for a ticket we're playing three songs little fuckers out of here so maybe he does that again this time so if he dies like you might get there only see one US Play Lonely Boys Wayne Newton which would be worth the cost of admission why don't you guys have him go on later doesn't that make more sense we have to headline our egos and Stan yeah I'd probably switch that around I'd take the hit headed to Denver earlier it just seems like you're gonna yeah I'm just gonna wait do a lot of waiting we should that's hey man I agree yeah I mean I don't want to go on a limb 15 he's a horrible accident he just he woke up at 5:00 this morning what's he going to do a couple days he's a huge act to it's not like he can't headline things well you know he doesn't he just let he just left the

► 01:40:08

Blink-182 tour I read because you know the people don't at the arena shows obviously people don't all get there for the support band so he was playing like half-full room and I think left we could give him a full room in yeah that I'll take that head can we go play Blackjack for an hour Wayne Newton might not be available though who said that tore up that Festival yeah the but with Blink-182 that yeah who said who said it up with you guys

► 01:40:40

what what flutter with the I mean the thing you're doing to show you again it's a festival so it's curing by a talent buyer usually in connection with like a Dior live nation's it seems an odd pairing you have festivals now our I mean I think it's cool to have odd pairing and it's like I said 11 years ago we had the same pairing with Will Wane but I think I do think you know the festival thing is got in a little bit it's getting you know it's kept us was our kind of for younger people so that because that is a lot more

► 01:41:15

you know there's like a lot more pop kind of stuff you know I think we're one of the few rock bands playing the whole festival really I mean one of the few bands of the drum set that's for sure

► 01:41:27

it's a strange time man do you enjoy these festivals I mean why do you guys do them at this point do you feel like I don't think we're going to do that many coming up yeah we're kind of I think we're I think this might be one of the last ones we do for a while because I would just think at this point if I was you guys I just want to do my own shit we pulled out a Woodstock for that for that reason for that reason because we didn't want that to be our first show back in for a happier hmm it was more money than we'd ever been paid for show our agents but you sure you want to cancel it we had been fighting for days of him check in with we're like wow cancel it it does it say it's not going to be cool be I don't want to play that as our first show back and he's like well there's a good chance it's going to get cancelled and if you cancel it you're not going to get paid I think why would we want to headline if that's what gets cancelled like makes us look like we can't

► 01:42:28

is this your agent yeah that's hilarious they're trying to get you paid for something that might get cancelled like literally I don't feel comfortable taking money like that we got a guarantee we got a guarantee Pat that's hilarious yes that's what year was this witch here Woodstock this one this one okay be real showed us footage of the one that he was at which was how many years ago quite a few I saw him there in st. Peters he's crowd-surfed and they said they took his shoes yeah people came to different shows with all shows they find them cyberspace it's pretty wild looks and I ended in Flames it looks like chaos there's too many people yet a helicopter folks in it's like the all the cars are blocking the highway like this is a shitshow do they do it the same way I just remember corn headline one night and it was just like a sea of fucking people and it was so

► 01:43:26

our candles are ominous you know what I mean is this fucking wild and they all had that haircut that went on back then whether you'd shave like the sides in the back and then pull the top back into you know a lot of angst and I met along the metal ball necklaces metal ball necklaces I missed that was like I don't know chick ball bearings you know oh yeah sure y'all Barrel that's big Akron least I worked at a record store when that corn record came out in 1999 and it's when I first really got a glimpse of how fucked we are is like a Modest Mouse record it come out and like I told it two or three copies of it and they're just like droves of morons coming in second I need the new corn record well I would like we had boxes upon boxes like fuck man we're fucked and I went into the bathroom and I was like like at the end thinking about this in the bathroom with that place was just covered in like pornography and I like this is like so fucked up and then the movie Idiocracy came out I was like this

► 01:44:26

is fucking living in this shit already and then the last five years have happened I was like we're fucking so deep into this shit man so deep yeah it's happening at the same time they're they're cracking the egg that is artificial intelligence trying to get that fucking thing to do they need it for certain areas I went to this I went I went to this rural rural County Fair outside of Nashville a couple weeks ago because my wife want to take our baby to see the little piglets and stuff so we go into that but the 4-H kind of area and it's cute and like you know real right real motherfuckers who work their asses off in there but then we go into the actual fare part where and it is these Court these people I sold corn records to like 20 years ago are now there and do I want okay they had lemonade right which is basically like crunchy like crunchy lemonade or so much sugar in this shit like everyone's getting like diabetes on the spot I ordered three large lemonade

► 01:45:26

there's six dollars a piece right I gave the woman a $20 bill and she gives me back 15 bucks and starts and starts talking to me and as she's doing that she's doing this she's like she's like talking about fucking I'm not joking Wheel of Fortune just to no one huh not like this shit oh my God Michelle I think Michelle what do I do do I give her what she like don't correct this shit like it's gonna be way too complicated just take it as like take the money don't feel guilty oh my God embarrass her she doesn't even know what's happening she's talking about fucking Vanna White and it's like fuck and I looked around like man there's a lot of fucking people on pills in this country or something oh yeah it's like you then that's where I was like I started going as rant on the way home my baby is trying to sleep I'm like how is Bernie Sanders talking about paying back college loans when there's people who don't have a middle school or high school education you know I mean the these a lot of

► 01:46:26

comes down to just fucking education you know I mean and I was like that's a really weird way to talk about get it you know spending tax dollars I feel like is on pain back College loan but I think he just wants a free people from debt the problem with college loans is people sign up for them when you young and dumb and you don't exactly know what you're doing and we're getting to a point in our life where we have how do we do we knew that we needed to drop out because we wouldn't get a fucking job from Akron universities but philosophy the point where we just we have been with debt we both had debt from school they both had that is everybody done I actually went to this art school for a minute they let recruiters come in the fucking high school

► 01:47:05

it seems criminal to me it's kind of weasely they're they're kind of talking you into something check it out I went to this may be a good thing for you I went to the school for two quarters called The Art Institute of Pittsburgh right and it I didn't know that it wasn't a credited I didn't know shit they came and they recruited me and I couldn't get into any art school I had horrible grades in math so I tested into like four years of remedial math she was like I don't want to fucking do that I like photography or whatever and after two quarters out of teacher who just like came up to me in the morning liked after 10 o'clock or 10:30 class Rivers like wreaked of whiskey and he said you know I need to talk to you and he busted out his portfolio which is all at this point this is like 1998 the ships from the mid-70s you know Dusty all the colors are faded they do you want to do this with your life and it's hooked its photographs of cupboards cabinets and I photographed the cabinet's you get the fuck out of here

► 01:48:07

oh my God he just agrees meaningless it's unaccredited you want to fucking be loading cameras what's your fucking life either you're the only one in here that gives a fuck and I think you fuck his races like I'm fucking serious and I went home like Dad I think I made a mistake and the schools I $8,000 a quarter it was fucking expensive and oh wow and I dropped out so then I drop out and I had this whole other experience but fast forward to 2014 were on tour we're about to go to Pittsburgh I'm talking to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette they're like and I yeah man I love Pittsburgh from Akron two hours away I actually used to live there I went to the school actually it's one of the biggest scams of all fucking time and I what's cool arzo Pittsburgh and like it became like local news for weeks like that so I just did it I did a pre tour interview with the same writer a couple weeks ago he's like hey man remember that interview we did about and you talk about talking shit on artists to Pittsburgh I guess they went out of business

► 01:49:06

like getting and they and like literally they kind of hold you accountable for it and I'm like well how does it cause go out of business because they're scamming fucking kids oh it was a scam a lot of colleges a fucking scam wow you know I mean I was like I know I know I had a relative who was going to a I've paid for a lot of fucking liberal arts schools you would be surprised how much how much I paid for I don't never went to a school I help out family members that shit I paid for a year at Oberlin which is not fucking cheap I've I should get a fucking honorary degree from this shit I paid for the ship I don't have booked a ticket I got asked if I got asked to pay for some of the Lewis and Clark you know it's fucking $60,000 a year school in Portland

► 01:49:51

man and a lot there's a school called Oberlin liberal super liberal arts school really cool radio station a lot of cool people go to the conservatory you know man of very liberal school and it down a pretty liberal motherfuckers you know and and it's not far from Akron it's closed so we I would drive to Oberlin they had good shows there yes 60 miles my girlfriend went there at the time and I will go see concerts and all kinds of shit but every time I would go there like all these kids that were like from New York City rich kid from New York whenever big oh man I was at expressed an opinion about something and they make man you're just a townie dude like just a townie I'm like fuck you motherfucker like the fuck who the fuck are you you just haven't your parents have a bigger bank account in mind that's the only difference you fucking asshole and I don't feel bad that you don't have a job after you have a fucking degree of here you fucking dick like this is so specific I mean I'm serious I don't feel bad that you don't have a job after college going to college as a

► 01:50:50

like what I mean I don't know I was like fully prepared to it when I dropped out of school if the bikies thing hadn't worked start a lawn care business I don't know wash people's fucking windows I don't really know I wasn't going to write papers I was going to write academic papers I knew that much

► 01:51:12

believe it or not

► 01:51:15

this is tour basically this is what towards you guys do yeah this is it man do you get wound up you get wow I don't know I don't mean to do it my stepmom are my step my stepdaughter has her friends over right and I'm like

► 01:51:35

I have like she hasn't had her birthday party she had three three of her friends over there all 14 and they were over for two hours already it's like beautiful day in the summer time and like I go up into the room and there's no sound I'm like they're all on their devices and I'm like you guys need to give me your fucking devices get out of the room I'm like so jacked up like Sergeant Slaughter and I'm like as I'm mad I don't mean to sound this irritated I'm not I don't know why I do I just don't mean to sound that into I really I really don't care as much as I sound but we need I need to show you that there's other stuff to do and you guys you guys should be hanging out and then like it was weird because I was telling him like you know when I was a kid we used to watch Troll 2 and like we would have super watched role to make fun of the troll to the movie the movie yet so I'm like I go up I go up there I like late at night like one morning they're all watching troll to but

► 01:52:33

it's like they're deep into the movie I'm like oh my God we always turned it off after the first guy still have got to tell you you guys are gonna warp your brains watching all this role to I've never seen troll to I only saw troll one what's the difference oh this is it you'll see there is a movie I think called troll but it's not but it's not related it's not related note role to isn't really draw two possible imagine like there's a troll what he does I'm gonna call my movie troll to but and trolls my movie no no it's not like roles I could be I could be wrong I could be wrong but I really believed I really believe troll to it's related for one is a hilarious think if that's true that is a hilarious thing to do to somebody I don't think I don't think the troll won't even exist actually really yeah how is Julie true how was your only Troll 2 I know this is a big thing I said a real screenshot yeah you know just oh my God this is so good

► 01:53:33

goofy looking well I kind of you know there's this video store when we were kids videos were big deal for us actually and uh yeah Highland Square video TV find out there's a troll one because it was only natural to it sometime somehow another makes it even more magical I don't think there's a troll one man sir it's troll wanted this doesn't know that's that's not related though man no but there was a movie about these giant trolls or was it I think Leonard Leonard part 6 there's a Leonard part 5 or 4 3 or 2 1 but that's all are it's called Troll 2 there was one movie I want to say it was a foreign movie that was really ridiculous about these giant trolls a few years back and it was pretty stupid to I thought this was it this is a different one well that's back in the time when like things were made that were horrible and that and it was almost like people didn't realize how bad they were oh look at this it has no real connection to the original troll

► 01:54:33

which is this troll 1986 is not the one that I saw I saw some other one is the trolls were giant they were like it's big as trees they'll like in the distance MSO Revelation something about great bad movies though that's it's they're fun well you know how like the secret knowledge of things like videos getting passed around before YouTube and it's a different the music was the same way as like you can just recently it's weird record would come across just like the first like mad scientist mad Professor dub record what you would never find it in Akron anywhere you get like dub copy of that but it was like that with videos to I just go away yeah Jesco White yes go white yeah Pat yeah you first want to show me that yeah or Steve Bannock was that fucking documentary The Wild and wonderful Whites of West Virginia holy shit do I've never seen it but but but while they were making that we knew someone who was in touch with Jessica because we were we were we were in the Jessica based on that PBS thing from the we've probably 90 we've got four

► 01:55:33

recordings were basically quoting lines from the original Diamond we were watching that stuff and they 95 96 look at him yeah well check it out we were playing our first show at the Ryman and our very first show at the mother church at the mother Church of country music we had Jesco come down from West Virginia and and Forest and he got so fucking drunk there's video I like that shit Hammer deep took his shirt off start twiddling his nipples he started faking Master bit and then his sister was dragging him off stage no one since Hank Williams is good that I've never seen that yeah you got he literally got thrown out the back door with his shoes fell off but they were his grandfather's yeah it happened and then like someone accused us of stealing his shoes I like the dude fucking lost his shoes still she did you have interactions with him or did he just go on I spoke to him a little bit but you guys organized this oh yeah

► 01:56:33

didn't you want to say hi to him I said I do oh you did oh yeah you just Pat I didn't because by the time he was there by the time he I saw him he was wasted and it was and he was wild-eyed whoa whoa yeah it was like for real sometimes the joke just gets say oh that's like joke gets to real - I thought he was coming like actually tap into a shit but he's just so shit-faced he couldn't do I recommended that movie to somebody and they watched it and he was like hey man why the fuck did you make me watch it what's wrong with you it's like people live in hell I try to show people that like oh yeah this people like you know some people that why the fuck would you watch movie like that how could you say that to influence on you I don't know West Virginia is a strange place man and those people that are you know living in trailers and doing a lot of pills and there's like entire communities have zero hope and insane

► 01:57:32

the poor that's one of my favorite States it's so beautiful there which Ward yeah Gorge a new Rivers beautiful I dated a girl right who live right there but in Steubenville the right on The Dean Martin Highway and man was so pretty she could she lived in Ohio and could see Pennsylvania and West Virginia across the river from her front porch hmm there's something like kind of magical about that state actually you go in there and I thought oh yeah this is fucking cool there's this weird diners there's you know that but the thing is it's like there's no industry so people who don't have jobs obviously then they also have to own property that were property is completely worthless it's like a lot of America's like that you know people tend to forget like a lot of people we're so used to seeing it I mean we grew up in Akron grew up in a home where the industry I mean we have those big rubber money like mansions that are just vacant now hmm yeah well I've been like anywhere including home in Nashville I'm like fuck the three

► 01:58:32

million dollars for that fucking house is like you could buy the whole fucking city block sakharine's three million dollars there's a house for sale in Akron right now that was the co-founder of Goodyear Tires Mansion 1.7 million like 18,000 square feet it's fucking insane wow yeah and there's a there's a three-bedroom apartment around the corner from our hotel in Santa Monica what would you Ted same price one of them's a hundred acres one of them is made out of all materials you can get at Home Depot one of them hand-carved wood work I'm still surprised that more people haven't left the big cities and moved into places more people working virtually I don't know why they haven't we never I mean I never moved to the big city really Nashville's big city I've ever lived in Nashville is not a big city no but it's a it's got a good size this is plenty of folks yeah there's plenty of it's cool said it feels like the same size to me is

► 01:59:32

under Detroit I know it's slightly bigger population wise but footprint wise it's smaller I think you drive through Cleveland it takes a long time that's a long as you're going lengthwise at least otherwise it's like running short so two miles wide it's like 30 miles long but growing up in Akron and like you guys had to feel like you were on the outside of the music business right like the business itself was in Nashville and LA and New York and you know growing up in a town do you think there's an advantage well we did but oddly Pat and I had a connection to the real music business but both in our family my cousin was Robert Quine tar player who played with Lou Reed and Richard hell in the voids one of the first Punk guitar players really influential and the Pats uncle's Ralph Carney saxophone player played on all the time waits records B-52 records all kinds of Records it was weird and these guys weren't like

► 02:00:32

financially successful but they were critically lauded kind of individuals they were professional musician then so then records and it was just odd so yeah what up around the block from each other so what we want when we looked at that right idea of making a record what we want that's all we wanted to do was make a record and then you know by the time we were selling like a hundred fifty two hundred seat rooms we were like we fucking have made it this is it this is fucking awesome this is what we wanted and then we would be like what if we try to sell out the 400-seat room what if you know it was just kind of slowly went and finally we got to this point where we're like well what if we try to play Madison Square Garden and our managers like yeah you could do it and we're like well let's do it and then we did two nights there and that's literally work started from playing the our history our history like in Brooklyn and New York was like we open for a Ska band and on a Monday night

► 02:01:34

in a Brooklyn for 50 bucks we drove all the way from Akron 8 hours 8 hours each way may $50 that's our first show in New York and wow yeah that's a fucking Barclays or whatever but it also it was all like it was like it was like honestly when we got to the point when we were playing the Troubadours like we fucking have done it we fucking got there and they're like well there's another venue down the road a little bit bigger yeah that's what I thought was your age I guess none other than you well that's why someone who does understand anxieties never going to stand how person like you

► 02:02:07

with all that success could still get weirded out do you know I mean that's that's what makes it interesting like the the managing of the mind you know I mean the and I are both pretty confident but we're also but we're not like

► 02:02:22

we do know that I think you're only as good as your last show really you know as good as your last record and

► 02:02:28

you know you can't escape by under shit yeah so and we all new bands growing up that kind of did right they had a couple good albums and then things kind of went off the rails dude is like my favorite band is like growing up with Devo because they're from Akron and they're like this different kind of crazy band punk band you know and there is something special about acronym yeah there is what's what it's something special about Ohio yeah but you watch you watch a band lead even though I was going to say get to get to La and whatever happened there the change that happened and

► 02:03:03

there's something I mean that's been something that I've been I mean think actively trying to avoid is that

► 02:03:10

that kind of thing hmm you know but yeah that's like I go home to Akron I fully get I fully accept and know that I'm going to get made fun of for certain things I'm not I mean I'm gonna like a real individual get my shit thrown at me by my friends and they're going to make fun of me for whatever rightfully so but yeah akron's I'm Ohio's and and the Midwest it's an inspiring place because it kind of is a vacuum in the people who are operating there like 99% of them are operated just because they have no other choice that and I love doing what they're doing music was so you go to New York because first time and it's like you know the smallest little band has a connection to the biggest producer and like that here too you know that's why I like it's like true good people like will like a group anytime you like for teenagers playing music together here like a in our head

► 02:04:10

God we're going to give you a big deal and get you on MTV it never fucking works out I mean that's like think about the amount of fucking bands that have come from Los Angeles how many great rock and roll bands have come from La I mean seriously it's a fucking massive City it's the biggest County in the country in the music industry is here and the take the last 20 years of great bands from Los Angeles you wouldn't have a long list same with New York City you know if you go to the last 40 years the list doesn't grow that much do you think it's better this what I'm saying do you think it's better to be on the outside do you think it's better to be in a city where you're in kind of a small town here's what I think is best I think if you can really integrate with the music industry peripherally from the outside it's always best how about what do you mean like if you end up signing the major label like what we all must sign it we got some offers early on to signed to major labels early on we did not do it

► 02:05:10

mostly because the like the car they kept we kept being strung along like the contract will be there in a week we could pass what a show two weeks have passed we call it will be there next week finally we're like fuck this we realized at the age of 22 we realize if we signed this shit and they can't get a contract to us to even look at in six weeks if we make a record there's we're going to be so fucking log-jammed like we're never gonna be able to do this shit so we took the gamble we sign with the small Indian just kept fucking going you know and when we finally went to a major it was on a subsidiary of a major with really supportive president and we were kind of on the outside still even though we're inside run outside and we were able to do our thing we've never had an A&R guy sit around and tell us to speed the song upper or whatever but but the problem is if you get in without having some of those boxes ticks and you get in you sign a big bullet big record deal off the bat some fucking dumbass who has a

► 02:06:10

vacations degree from like fucking Pepperdine gonna be sitting down next to you big I think the high hats too loud bro I mean KROQ can't play that the drums are they just got to know he's talking about you know me and like that's that right there and when you get those notes coming from some dude that's your A&R guy that doesn't really know what he's doing I mean there are good A&R guys but most of them are these types of foods and I'll be like yeah man like and it's it's basically what they are doing right then when they're told they're getting in your head back you gotta change the hi-hat on the mix man what they're saying is when this record fucking fails and I can't deliver that any sort of fandom to you that I want to say that you turn the high hat down to low or I turn the high hat he didn't turn down low enough there's all cop-outs everywhere and the what only way to get through that is to we learned how to make records ourselves in a basement we had a tape machine $100 tape machine and RadioShack microphones and we recorded our first

► 02:07:10

like that we did our second record like that our third record like that our fourth record like that and finally we went into the studio Danger Mouse and we knew how to run a mixing desk you know I mean we knew what we liked so if someone came in that wasn't Danger Mouse and was like this or one of the mixing injures we've worked with if someone came in and said the kick drum sounds like shit we'd be like fuck off we know what a kick drums drum can sound like we've been doing this and I think basically if you can spend the time get the time and get that that's why that's why like back in the day it's like

► 02:07:51

you know a record deal a wreck a band takes years to develop you mean took us took us eight years before we got us on the radio of actively making records and touring and a lot of this stuff set up with labels were they want like a hit on the second record you know my I'm married to a woman who sold millions and millions of albums and of songs that she wrote you know and when she turned in an Americana record like Warner Brothers gave her such the run around the shelves the record to cost a hundred grand to make because they said there wasn't any hits on it that's that's no way to be an artist do you know what I mean yeah and so we've just always avoided that they shelled the record they just didn't even bother trying to release of the to cut their losses no man and then they charged her for it and then the dropper I mean that's that's that's why so they shelve it they never release it yeah they've never really seen they just drop her yeah dude that's how that's how they do this shit though the archives of these labels are filled up with shit has been shelved we only hell yeah man and I don't know

► 02:08:51

business well my I learned all this stuff early on because my uncle Ralph who Dimension was signed to Warner Brothers in the late 70s he made a record with his band called tin Huey it sold like 5,000 albums you know like failure and then they gave him like 30 grand of fuck off

► 02:09:13

and they made some right they made a record in between the end of this fucking sheltered happens all the time

► 02:09:20

how many good records of they have shelved what do they do with them ultimately like if people know about did I think there's a lot of good records but I also I also think that there's a lot of records at started off really good and then some Pepperdine dudes like remix this you need to remix it you need to do the into that this you need to do this do this some dude just guessing you know yeah it's like it's not hard to just guess it's like if I'm if you're like looking at remodeling your kitchen it's like and you're an idiot you just put the stove here about fucked up put it over to the left actually write read it you know me but if you're really a producer musician that makes records and you turn it like you turn in a record it's so frustrating when you get someone that doesn't know what they're doing exactly that maybe you should do this I actually had to happen to me I there's this band called The Sheepdogs this Canadian band that actually

► 02:10:09

This Record end up going platinum in Canada and in the u.s. and never even got pushed the radio not not even one song but this guy tchad Blake who didn't like work with all the time who's mixed our last four records he mix this record this guy's like a genius and Audio Wizard yeah he's a wizard so he lives in Wales in a little house on his wife works with horses he's got a little side room just tiny little room just like half the size of this and he mixes huge records so this guy says he's a badass this will records budget was like 60 Grand including them living off of it and shit I took the entire budget and let the for and it was spent on a little cheap Studio

► 02:10:56

some friend of a friend of mine who's going to engineer it them to live and the rest of it went to chat to mix it so I get that I get that mixes back in this ain't our guy listening to the mixes and is like I think I think that high hats too loud on the song I'm not joking and I'm I'm on tour how much word and I'm like I called dangerously what do I do he's like you know what to do I think send him the same mix and label it mix for and tell him it's been lowered that's right but then he's like you also need to remember you you are fucked now they will never service this song because that's the cop out as like bullshit just watch and it is exactly what happened oh my God and I thought of it like a year later and like dude you're fucking genius he's like well I've been through this shit wow yeah because check it out if you're an A&R guy right you're getting like probably six figures you report to a senior in our who reports to a vice president who reports to the president

► 02:11:54

and it if you stick your neck out and you say I want to take a million dollars from the fucking machine and I want to I want I bet it all on this band or even a quarter million dollars the odds of any band making it I like probably one in a hundred and we talked about even breaking even so if you only an idiot would ever really get behind a band that is unproven so your whole job is to deflect blame the I mean so like that's why that's what the problem is you know like if I was going to sign a band and someone offered me he said I had a million-dollar budget to sign a new band like I also wouldn't give them all the money because there's no way I'd make it back you know I mean yeah but yeah that's the music industry to just fucked up and I need you know you spend years and years and years

► 02:12:45

and if you're lucky like weed and I walked out and then you look back and it's like

► 02:12:50

I don't even know how it happened there's all these other factors that come into it you know and you go try to help a band One Thing something that works for us would never work for another band so there's no there's no formula to it and it's really random is I saw cats trying to it's similar to this shit as like this this chick I know was talk I was talking about ancestry.com and how she doesn't care about her ancestors not like you don't care what ancestors that's interesting because like think about the odds of you existing it's like you go back just like 20 Generations then that means that you have like over a million grandparents I think it's like 2 million grandparents and just 20 Generations I think about all the fucking sperm and eggs and the odds of those each one fucking happening it took two million a million two million people fucking and that happening over and over again to get to your ass you don't give a fuck but any of it I think that's just fucking ignorant honestly like and if you and like and if you want to buy into the Elon Musk simulation remember this then

► 02:13:50

there's some other fucker sitting at the simulation who made that motherfucker so it's like you know I'm saying like the simulation had to been made by some motherfucker like there's always something deeper that thing about the thing about any thing is it son explicit it's unexplainable the fact that Dan and I grew up next to each other at the fact that we were close in age the fact that we have able to put up with each other shit and find each other I'm using you know after 30 years of know each other it's all fucking insane well you guys obviously have a very good balance look at the well he didn't up and down you know but we do know that has to do with a lot of factors like we said you know not over touring is pretty much the best a big one right that Rex people yeah yeah that can pretty much take all the art out of you suck all the life out of you fuck up all your relationships yeah you just don't want to be out there anymore no it's hard to be home sorry you to the whole thing you don't really buy into the simulation do you mean fuck though not at all but I don't but I mean I don't like what this is

► 02:14:50

person was saying to me that they're atheist and think that's fine you're allowed to believe that but you also have to accept that there's possibly that's not true yes and they're like that's what I believed and but then they went on to say that they believe in God demons and I was like man you got it I think that my you know that my my rationale about all this stuff is it it's it's simple I was talking about to my step daughter who's so smart so sweet and has really changed my life in a lot of ways and we were swimming in the pool

► 02:15:25

um talking about life you know it's one of these conversations it's like she's like what do you think that there's a God she asked me and I said well we don't go to church or anything and I said I said I don't know

► 02:15:40

but I think this is something interesting to think about as like whenever I think about that I try to think about the end of the universe at the very end like the edge and I can't picture it as I can I can't picture as I can and I can't picture like Infinity

► 02:15:59

you know I can't grasp that at all and as it took mere fact that we can't grasp Infinity will lead someone like maybe Lon to believe that we're there's a purposely that was left off and some sort of simulation whatever but maybe that's would be the argument but I think that that the fact that I can't picture maybe I'm just an idiot but it makes it that I think that there's maybe something more there's definitely something more to it that possibilities Way open but I do think what do you think I had this conversation with a guy who is actually an expert on it this guy Nick Bostrom needs trying to explain to me that because the probability it's more likely or very likely that we're in a simulation because the probability of someone eventually creating it and that it's very possible that we're in it right now and more probable than not but then what does that mean there had I don't know but simulation has to be

► 02:16:59

and that why would it wow a simulation of what from what well here's something I know for sure okay this is what I know for sure this by my own experiences that we are the only people on this planet that have ever gotten to 2019 this is where we are we know there's a history behind us hmm we know that this is the peak we're at 2,000 walked in at a freaky time on man we're at the tooth we're at 2019 right now if we are we know we exist we know we have culture we know we have incredible technology we don't have any idea if we're the only ones it's likely that there's other life forms out there it's likely these other intelligent life out there but there might not be it might be that this is a crazy situation that happens incredibly rarely where you have a planet that's this close to the Sun where these life-forms figure out how to fuck with matter in an incredible way

► 02:17:59

and they start flying and sending things through the air that videos and instantly get to your phone this might not ever happen this is might only happen here it might happen here and inversions of here which if you believe in Infinity you have to believe there's infinite versions of this so there's infinite versions of life so it's almost built in mathematically that there's some Infinity is so big there's so many possibilities that everything that you have ever recorded has also been recorded by you in another place with infinite variations of each individual song infinite variations of each album that there's infinite versions and that infinite versions of each version and so that's insane the whole thing is impossible for a little ant brains to wrap around it that's possible too it's not it's not it's not likely that it's a simulation I mean it's possible to simulation but it's also possible that this is as far as anything's ever gotten because we're we nose is far as we've ever got Pat and I are starting an Intergalactic Publishing Company yeah

► 02:18:59

with science Futures your future right cytology signed you to some Universe contract for like a billion years is not like part of the deal I think with your if you're on the sea org it's like a billionaire service yeah I think it's a billion years tickets for the whole universe you can't even work on other planets I think that the you know it's interesting to think about whenever you talk about something that you don't know the answer to this simulation or the shore I'm your dimensions and stuff I think it's all fascinating it's all possible man um but I do think when it comes down to it like part of the thing that causes anxiety is it is it's just it's part of it is like accepting that something is real you know yeah like there's sometimes when you're having a panic attack or something like it's even fucking happening this is even fucking real and I think and I think being in the moment

► 02:19:51

as much as possible it when I really truly feel like I'm living in the present I really feel like you can really feel how special life is yes and how if I was a billionaire and I married the same trick twice I would think I was living in a fucking simulation to that's what I think about Ilan has like this really fucking smart but he's a billionaire and he married the same chick twice as dude you get marry anybody you wanted it gave it a chance yeah I don't know dude give it one more chance he might be living in a simulation well he might be interfacing with a different dimension than us now he might be I think about all the different sheets that guys invented you know my step daughter went to his school for a while oh Ad Astra really amazing experience for her I believe yeah whatever schools raised that dude

► 02:20:48

where does that Astro what is that school he is because his own school for some of his children and for some of the employees of his companies really he got his own School holy shit I just don't understand how that's all possible how can you dig tunnels under Ela make batteries make solar panels could electric cars make rockets shoot them in the space plan to colonize Mars yeah and then marry the same chick twice that's why he did it he didn't have any time to find a new check I think it might work might prove that he's a genius just that maybe he gave it a shot he gave it a shot what if it what if he married her twice in worked out amazing

► 02:21:31

like the second time I think it's worked out really amazing then like a thousand different dimensions both marriages yeah that's why he did it Infinity he did it because he needed to work out another dimension I'll create random possibility yeah for no reason just create random possibilities each and every direction but every decision you make the universe expands infinite different directions infinite different versions of you that sounds terrifying but so does fallen asleep you know falling asleep is weird we're all agreeing every night I'm looking forward to literally not existing so I stopped being there for eight hours I don't see anything I have no idea what's going on around me I think about that all the time it's the weirdest fucking thing people do man we all are afraid to die but no one's afraid to sleep everybody's looking for sleep I always I always have a couple reoccurring dreams and I had that I had one last night that was fucking insane a reoccurring one no it was

► 02:22:31

was it was based on something that sort of is real I have this dream where I'm rigged reoccurring where I'm in a house that I'm Vaguely Familiar with but there's all these additions that I discover and they're always under there like they're usually either really rickety and dangerous or like really beautiful and completely need to be fixed up and covered like Scooby-Doo house type thing last night I had this dream where I was in a house I used to own with my wife and

► 02:22:59

like there was a home invasion and I had something that they needed and they basically told me that if I I had it hidden and I said if I ever going to come back if I didn't give it to him they're going to kill me and I was I was like trying to figure out how to keep this thing hidden and I'd still I woke up from it like what the fuck of course I had to pee like I doing right now go be mad oh my God no worries we're going to talk about you when you're gone but all good things

► 02:23:33

and he's gone dude he gets worked up I would have had no idea really now I didn't would have never thought he gets that worked up oh yeah it just swings he sits on the bus and there's like nine ten eleven twelve hours between each gig and he just dude he's can do he sounds like a comic yeah he really does like he's been my you know our personal comic for 20 years seriously I mean he's funny as hell he should definitely do a podcast that would be a huge podcast him just talking shit about things him just analyzing what's wrong with the world I've told him that the corn people are coming though you know that right coming for him can't do that to them 20 years of insults on corn people I worked at the same Record Shop that he did yeah Quonset hut records I was there when corn came out at midnight sale people would be lining up at midnight surround the block kids don't understand that there was something interesting about going to a record store and seeing records that

► 02:24:31

no idea what they were you'd pick up the album and you look at it you look at the artwork and like what is this and you flip it over to the back and sometimes you got roped in you know sometimes you get roped in just buy a cool album cover it was a beautiful time beautiful beautiful medium do you remember when there were certain stores it would have those little stations and you have a button and you had headphones and you could like put the headphones on and listen to an album for a couple seconds you like I spent my whole life doing that yeah pan I went from City to City when all the record shops did they listen to let you listen to the whole album there yeah you could just and listen it wasn't just like Snips of it was the whole you listen the whole thing yeah good record shops were all like that and they always had a great recommendations I mean yeah yeah I don't know it's troubling you know like Pat says I mean he's he's thought about it quite a bit well it isn't it it's also interesting for new young artists that don't have any distribution they just get viral from SoundCloud or from Twitter that

► 02:25:31

we were just finding out those metrics to just don't quite matter they don't quite matter in what way they don't sell tickets you know then you know what about guys like mean it's not your genre but didn't isn't that what Chance the Rapper did or Tyler the Creator which one is it just a rapper did he do it all from the internet and he's really huge right yes he's known as an independent artist but he did it yes the tired of the Creator is a totally different thing okay I'm sorry guys it's Tyler Tyler Tyler and I are in touch every once in a while whenever there's a the in between first and your last name I get you know Tyler the Creator yeah Chance the Rapper Patrick the drummer

► 02:26:15

that's those are like pool hall nicknames yeah gray the fireman yeah you know I don't know much about I mean the I think the chances are good example of like breaking into the industry different and the different thing do you think that the why but I also think that like there's it's just it's just interesting to see how all this stuff shakes out ten years from now like who's going to be around one what does what matters you know I mean back to my wife Michelle Branch she she got she sold millions of records and she's insanely talented individual and seeing the amazing person and hurt but her audience was commercial radio you know top 40 and the thing about top 40 is it's like it's the same type of person that goes to watch whatever popular on television or Keeping Up with the Kardashians like someone who watches Keeping Up with the Kardashians is probably not familiar with Gilligan's Island you know I mean and five

► 02:27:14

years from now when there's something different than keeping up with well probably not that show up I still be around but you know what I'm saying they just it's like it's a it's whatever's freshest and newest and so you end up if you if you end up developing a pop this is why we're stopping not want to get put on the radio because it's a different type of fan it's a less personal type of fan when you get played on top 40 hmm it's like you know when you go through when I go through like certain friends of Mines parents records they'd have like all these records that oh yeah used to listen to that used to listen that used to listen to and I go through Dan's dad's records or my dad's records my dad be still listening to that shit point is that these people were buying like Billy Ocean records in a my dad was buying like cream records and he was a fan of music and this person was a passive pop fan you know and I think that what you're experiencing is when you try to compare pop

► 02:28:04

maybe some of this pops up has some sort of credibility because it's independent or whatever but I think they're very it's a very weird thing trying to figure it out like I think booking a festival nowadays is probably fucking really crazy that's why the Woodstock thing was fucking they didn't know what to do they booked like when we were told about the festivals like we were going to headline Saturday night when the wind up came out it was like Chance the Rapper us and I forget who else was on that but there were a couple people are like three Headliners and like that's that's insane like what are you thinking you're going to sell a hundred and fifty thousand tickets at seven hundred dollars a pop fucking idiot just do it just do a festival for 30,000 people do to Festival two weekends do a Pop Festival to wrap Festival Du Rock do whatever it is but don't get you you're out there obligation per night was like 10 million in guarantees or something so they fucking dumb ass is like you're like I wonder why they fucked up so what that guy who fucked up the first Woodstock and

► 02:29:04

fifty years later he has a fucking figured it out yet that 50 years is that will you get it in 50 years dude Michael get it 50 years from now you'll figure it out buddy you know it's like that idea of just repeating the shit that doesn't make sense is like we've all done it but like even elon's done it do you think that the music business is the way it is because it started out a different thing did it was a different thing it was how they made the records it was the actual records they would put it in the stores but all that shit's gone now so it's just mostly download the music business is the way it is set up the way it is because there are independent people who have made very successful careers without having to engage the machine right but traditionally if you wanted to sell out Madison Square Garden traditionally there are people like fish or whoever who have done it based on the backs of whatever things that they've done but

► 02:30:00

traditionally if you want to make a record and you want to get to Madison Square Garden you need promotion you need radio you need exposure you need publicity and now almost all of that stuff you can get for free if you have like enough bullshit up your sleeve on social media that kind of you can get enough thirteen-year-old streaming your shit you get to fuck MSG without a label without a publicist without any of that shit but you know a band Like Us in the situation that we're in now like

► 02:30:31

you know we can we can wear in the position to be able to look at the music industry music this is this is just crazy that we're paying this person this much money to do what they're doing this is fucking insane and like you we can really talk have open conversations with like people like we're not giving you Warner Brothers five dollars a record to bundle this shit because what we're paying you to be on your record label so that we get a fucking number on soundscan that ultimately you'll brag about like fuck all this fuck it but no but you can't do that that's a way that's power structure is still set up is that if you're on a label you most bands sign this record deals they got to give that fucking money back to the label it's a 360 deal they got fucking not only that but they get access to your ticket sales like straight up like profit that's weird well it's all weird that was always where the musicians made money entirely there's up until streaming right I mean that did people cut record labels in on any ticket sales before that no in fact

► 02:31:30

used to be set up where our tour was a loss leader for to sell a record yeah that's why you'd see bands like I don't know fucking huge bands in the 70s bad company or whoever they would they would sell fucking huge ass fucking stadiums for like $3 ticket maybe have a bunch of support sell a couple million records find out the manager stole the fucking money you know write a memoir about it that's why it's like this it's like Tale As Old As Time you know yeah it's like I come from like an indie rock background and it's always it was just sort of like

► 02:32:07

Dan does too and it's like we're coming up a big even the kind of having any knowledge of the business it was like

► 02:32:16

it was considered uncool do don't you think so a little bit is considered uncool to think about finances and Anna to kind of really know like like what you know now what you just described the way you have it all but we've always been fascinated by it so I've always paid attention to it but it's funny now where I'm just like realizing you know like what this whole take we took a break for off the road for four years and when we came back three years after break to make a record it was like we had gained we gleaned a lot of expense of perspective you know and our conversations when we first started making this record aside from like watching the news and talking about that and laugh making each other laugh and ship but it was like this band is something really fucking special you know I mean the fact that we're sitting in this room you know 18 years after after starting this band and at fucking working out and we're walking here we need to make sure that this ban is always something that's fun

► 02:33:15

and not a burden and not stressful as little shouldn't be stressful it should be fun it's rock and roll yeah and I think that we've been spending the last year figuring out how to make every decision so that way you know so like first at this show we were like do you want to do this TV show this to each other now we want to do we have wanted to we both watch The Joe Rogan listen Joe Rogan I would happen to watch it what we want to do Jo's

► 02:33:44

podcast you know I mean that's what we want to do that's what's important to us we don't want to play with Doc it's not important to us it doesn't speak to us these are the things we want to do and taking that type of position with the band and also looking at the business side of it be like this is fucking bullshit this is ridiculous you know what what what what what this band should be given us is the ability to help other bands which is what we do all day long when we're not touring I mean in the last five years

► 02:34:12

Dan's produce probably like 15 albums for other artists I've done a handful of myself he has a label puts out other people's music there's a lot of fucking work when we're not doing we're still working other music and the craziest thing is this we sold millions of Records

► 02:34:31

we've made between the two of us something like 60 plus albums

► 02:34:38

when I'm finished a record I'm really proud of and I sent it to Warner Brothers last time I did that they didn't even fucking response

► 02:34:44

to the email

► 02:34:47

when that when that shit happens to you you know what you want to do tell him to fuck themselves

► 02:34:52

you know what I mean and right now we're in a situation where our record contracts done you know and I saw what happened to my uncle Ralph do you need a contract no fuck no it doesn't seem like you do what we need is we need we need people to work with people who understand that the Black Keys is is very important to us but it's also a vehicle that we can leverage to help our other artists when we're producing shit and it's so fucking infuriating to have been in this business for 20 years and honestly understand the business better than most fucking managers and be treated like dog shit by the person that you made millions of dollars for you know what I mean well it doesn't make any sense that you need anything like that all you guys need to do is have Studio fees or if you have your own studio produced the music and then once people know your shit is out no but it's different because check it's different we don't need shit but if you take a new artist from Nashville to say and you make a record for them okay okay

► 02:35:51

they need an agent they need they need they need they need to go onto her right they need to do all the stuff that we did but we were like malnourished fucking freaks we were we were we were losing money the whole time we were able to lose money because our are my rent was $145 we started and we practice in my basement and Dan lives in his parents house we didn't have we could we could make like $200 a month and be in the rest are in the black wow I know no one else is like that's not realistic no you know so if you really want to well here's what's really want to start but if you want to help why isn't it realistic

► 02:36:29

I mean it's realistic what why is it more realistic to go get in $60,000 worth of debt and not be able to gamma fucking done well I'm just saying that most bands aren't two pieces most bands aren't like right human cockroaches like when we first started dancing dams like I need wonton soup every day that's what I need so I need three dollars and fifty cents we had a wonton soup I need a pack of cigarettes wow but you have dealing so you do need some Finance listen you you have the answer right in front of you you're a great talker if you just developed a podcast where you played new music and then talk shit the way you do now it would be gigantic maybe you just go on the road just do Pat and Dan you could call a patent Dan on the road and you guys just do it from your tour bus wherever you just let him wind him up let him talk shit about things and then play music like music that you really enjoy if someone like Spotify wouldn't jump on something like that they'd be crazy it's a great idea and you could use it as a platform

► 02:37:28

arm to help artists avoid the system entirely I'm thinking that might work but also would work then if we just tweet it Mark Zuckerberg that we need a hundred forty five million dollars he'd probably do it probably do it's a good deal if someone wanted to do something like that it's a great idea because you can use it to launch like like I've done with comics on this podcast you find people that are funny let everybody know it's not hard get a get a group of people that are really interesting keep the conversations going keep more cool people coming in and then you can use that to help other cool people and let everybody know you could do it through your social media you do it through a podcast and of course you guys are still going to do the same stuff you're already doing with producing people and helping them out but you definitely could have your own distribution network but be ethical free or ethical quandaries free like you don't have to think about it you just give it to them for free you just do it as a podcast to broadcast them hey check out this fucking band I love

► 02:38:28

I love this song Play It That Way him that would help a lot with exposure to new music yeah but I mean I think I guess what I'm saying is you're going to need an agent to bookshelf well yeah but I'm saying but I do think it is what I'm saying well the music industry what is actually what something that I think that

► 02:38:51

I think we're trying to figure out now is basically how to actually really work again truly independently you know what I mean where it is something that we can figure out a way to actually do the things we're passionate about which is a lot of it as making records and and and helping and even to make a record of impressive because you know it's like it's at least $10,000 you know I mean hmm so I guess what I was trying to say was like you'd expect that someone will look at your work and respected enough to kind of step in and help out because it's not like you're asking for fucking millions of dollars a year to finance some shit asking for like a couple hundred grand but that's the problem with the music industry is that so is that certain labels are willing to give like a SoundCloud rapper like 15 million dollars you know with them they look at a band and they can't quantify their metrics like maybe The Black Keys or whoever and

► 02:39:51

they don't give a shit they don't help me out with this guy don't understand it what do they provide but what is this record that's been done by this point to us physical distribution which is something that was illegal distribution of like a vinyl LP veteran that's crazy though how much is that yeah but I mean real lot of people buying their own oh I mean for us really it isn't it isn't tons or some marketing there's some stuff like that but honestly I mean we get more from like Live Nation probably mmm you know what I mean so they what has a record company do then like if you're a young artist they get gonna scare you scare scare you into handing over the shit that they need and then they sign you to a long-term contract so how it works and then they pray you have a hit they pray you have a hit and if you do and you want to leave then you're fucked and then if you don't they don't think so and I think that you want to leave and you got two records left they shove that record until you get better yeah that's what they do it just doesn't

► 02:40:51

seemed we had this guy Legacy just checks its check this out we had this dude who was president of the label one point

► 02:40:57

it got back to me that he was taking credit for our success he wasn't even around when we broke I mean and the credit he was taken was the most genius fucking credit this is how this is how smart these fucking people are is like he said yeah man you know I don't think I really I really take a lot of pride in that band and really help them a lot by just staying out of the way whoo he didn't even write a check for two or support or no promotion he's taking credit because he was smart enough not to fuck it up I mean it's like I take personal credit like a Bojangles chicken for them being successful or are the new the new the new Popeyes chicken sandwich I take long you probably gonna credit I take a lot of credit though not chicken sandwich band because I didn't buy one I didn't fuck it up I didn't like put the wrong post up but that's a way better attitude at least a working attitude in the guy from Pepperdine he wants to fuck with the high hat wouldn't you prefer that guy who just gets the fuck out of the way I would say I think that guy all day long those those are the two options in yeah absolutely

► 02:41:57

they mean is he taking credit for it or is he just he's kind of bragging that he works with you he can't be taking credit for Digital Credit but I think little bit of credit a little credit a little Annoying to you dude there's a lot of credit that gets taken for a lot of shit didn't it seems like a fucking frustrating and infuriating business and I'm glad I'm glad enough to participate in to that's Comics There's No Business we've like we're like in the fucking top point zero zero one percent of this shit and still fucking annoying every single fucking day it's just like it's the trick to the music industry is to is to it's because if you really love music like the way that they and I do wear it is the still the thing that were most passionate about you mean like I love music I only think about music listen to it all day but yet you have to find that fine line where like you don't win like you make a record really proud of and no one fucking hears it and no one that works with you even response to an email about it you have to find that space where you don't want to kill everybody

► 02:42:58

you know I mean and you still want to go make another record and do you need to be connected to someone like this though does this is this a valuable thing in your world what to have this record company no no I mean not right so you can let all this go right and don't do it anymore so the trick is to find find out toward still learning that's industry changes is to learn how to Pivot and make it make it have it make sense so the real problem is Young Talent that's just getting started to get signed when they don't really know their worth yet and they don't know how the problem the problem is that no one is investing and fucking real bands they're investing in like a songwriter their vested in the artist that that was a puppet that they can go and like say this person's going to listen to this right do this shit like pop machine you think that you could do it ethically the you could do it your way look I think you have the time for something like that if I was to run a record label the main difference would be that I would look at it as that's try to fuck him

► 02:43:57


► 02:43:59

let's realize that some of the most important records here have never sold a million copies like the Ramones never sold a million copies of any of the records there may be the most influential punk band

► 02:44:09

so what is its this redefine what success is success is getting behind art that we really are proud of and not and not getting trampled and I and I get into the support that it needs this all seems doable yeah but then what you're describing with you seems doable but then think about this this is the problem this is the Crux is and you think about the Ramones and you realize this is a band toured in a van for 20 fucking years do you want us objective and to that know you want to be able to elevate that band to the point where they're actually doing that comfortably I mean and that's the hard part you mean can you though I think that'd be the same band not always right I think that you could yes it's possible depend upon the individual do that's why Metallica has these therapists been the trying to figure out how to fucking don't you think that part of what you guys are is your background when you were paying a hundred twenty five bucks a month for rent your you know you were living with your parents or this is part of why you guys were so good because

► 02:45:09

you fucking really wanted it you needed it you had to get to a better place we had no other option yes but I think there's some that's what we got that flavors the music I think that's what we do and we try to work with people we see that same quality and other people so people have already been down that road artists that I'm working with now people like yo Le and people like d white and do this is a changes all these people they're just ornery and they want it this is begging for an organization like your passion for this and they won't port we're already short of doing it we're actually have a radio station or a podcast that just talks about these new albums and what's going on and what you're doing and I'm sure people would fucking love it and just play music play the music that you guys are producing play music that you enjoy that you find out about I mean it seems like there's a real easy fix for this angst I don't think there is because it's been going on for years he's but for you there's a fix at least there's a better path for

► 02:46:09

I am people angst is important because it is its value I'm also number also by the way not that angsty but when I do talk about the business I give the links T but I'm a pretty chill individual to be honest it most of the time but when I comedy business is so much easier well you know I mean

► 02:46:32

we get to use that in our music yeah I'm sure the drive is like the thing it's like you know I when I found this Photograph that I just hung up on my road case of Dan I play one of our first shows I'm like oh this is important I should be I should make sure I have this hung up because it just reminds me of all the fucking days we spent like being fucking miserable in a van because we love music so much we go play a show for fucking nobody and maybe make enough money to get like a Motel 6 room share a bed get up the next day and go to Waffle House keep fucking doing it for years and years and years and years but it does take that type of motivation and itself it's frustrating when you do that and then you get to a point where it is the point that we're at and you feel like you've gotten really good at what you do and you help another artist and it's you realize that the after all that work it's like the myth of Sisyphus it's like oh after all that work it doesn't move the

► 02:47:31

clock at all still the same mother fuckers aren't fucking fucking helping you know and then you start realizing like what really has made a difference I mean I've heard I've heard people say take credit for our success because say that it was because we played the Spike Spike TV Video Game Awards what about 810 has watched that's what I thought I thought that made you you know but did that's the kind of thing that you're up against is like yeah and that's that's the fear of the music industry that's the fear was like and we we said yes to everything because we had we were banned for like 8 and 1/2 years then finally we started breaking and it was a it was like for the first time here's the offer for SNL here's the offer to have line Coachella here's the offer we have to say yes to everything even the Spike TV Video Game Awards and Eve especially when like someone's like you really should do it you really need to do it in fact if you don't do it like we're standing there with with Hulk Hogan

► 02:48:31

mmm backstage it was worth it it's worth it for that right but the point is that what actually moves the needle what actually moves the noodles like does it plain Colbert is it playing these things I don't fucking know man because I watch baseball and then I put on your podcast and then I go to bed that's what I do in the evening so I don't know who watches that shit but I know that I know my stepdaughter doesn't watch that shit I know she doesn't know how to work the fucking TV remote Russia's YouTube all day you know I mean the times are fucking changing you know and I think that if that's the hard part trying to Pivot with it and I think if if you're it's like guys our age who are running these labels looking at these few counts in the shit and they're all fucking get it wrong well they're getting it wrong because their businesses money their business is not music there in the music business to make money you guys are in it to make music that's why I'm saying dude you gotta do it you gotta start your own thing it's a fucking no brainer it's so easy for you to do you're obviously a great talker you're obviously very

► 02:49:31

inundated and you have a great love for music well we're going to restart the BMG music real be called the DP TB TB K I Like It tbk music club and with a sword is what we're gonna do is you send this 38 cents will send you 50 albums and hurt your parents will then write us a letter saying that you entered a contract as a minor and went to avoid it how do you guys write songs do you write them in to do come to each other independently do you do you collaborate like only in studio do you write them in studio we've for the most part always just made them up just improvise them like in the movie in the moment and then said you liked it let's try to put this down again just sort of gravitate towards what we like and then just start building on it and all the stuff that doesn't work just push it away and just keep going forward do you have disagreements on what works or doesn't work when you eventually no not usually it's always been like that

► 02:50:31

ever since we were 16 and 17 wow yeah I've never really I don't think the the older I get the more I realize how special that is you know I always took it for granted I mean I remember when we were trying to audition bass players we had this one guy try to come and play with us and I just remember it just fucked everything up it's like we couldn't even play it didn't even sound like us why it just didn't work and then was it when this other person left all of a sudden it sounded like a big band again huh it was weird

► 02:51:03

when we learn to play together

► 02:51:07

I never even played I've never I mean I never played drums with anybody aside from it Dan and me even playing drums in the Band It's like because it was a kind of an accident I only had a drum set because I wanted to be a guitar player and I want people to come to my house and play the drums with before I had a driver's license I got a job washing dishes and bought this Trump's I bought everything you need for bands like my friends would come over and they were all pretty much better at Guitar than me but Dan came over and he was like the best guitar player of all my friends and I was like fuck what do I do base or Trump's was like well you can't just Jam guitar and bass I sat down on the drums and that's what we did in high school so we learned to play the gether man so because of that there's like there is like a psychic kind of connection mmm you know I mean we play now on stage with a couple other guys and

► 02:52:00

um it's good it's easy it's fun but there is something when the two of us are playing where it is we can like work in between beats you know it's pretty liquid our goal has never been like to be this tight kind of rigid like I mean like tightness isn't something it's more about like the energy the feeling

► 02:52:25

it's hard to describe but it's like yeah we never worried about if we got it perfect we always it was always does it this is the one that feels best hmm always important she write the lyrics down do you write the music down or someone's I made it all right lyrics sometimes I'll improvise words a lot of the new record was a lot of like improvising syllables and words really yeah

► 02:52:49

yeah yeah there's just no rules absolutely no rules but a lot of times I'll be trying to be singing a Melody while I'm doing chord changes but I can see Pat you know that's the thing that we've always done we've always been able to see each other when we play and record so you know go with his movements and follow them that way so you guys just know each other so well you well you know we when we hadn't we hadn't been in the studio for five and a half years and we didn't do any pre-production or anything in the very first idea that we had made the record yeah wow I mean it's just that's a crazy man crazy connection yeah man that's so unusual it really is the older I get the more I realize that well you guys have been together for so long and this the thing with bands is like wholewheat there's my first band it's uh first I was never in another like the black is like the first real band as it yes first real band I've been in that's so crazy so I didn't know any different I thought all fans felt like this so you know what I mean

► 02:53:49

that's the saddest thing when you see bands in the lead guitar players mad at the singer and you know it's like all guys come on really yeah it's always over some dumb shit it's usually like someone's wife is yep fucking mean yeah wasn't that what the date the David Lee Roth hey we've been through that shit man we've been through it and it's like it's hard it's hard you know I mean I know yeah if I could go back in time and give like our 22 year old selves one piece of advice it would be like

► 02:54:22


► 02:54:25

probably don't tour with your girlfriends and until you like have a kid and they come out for a couple shows this void that shit and also probably like don't really have a girlfriend till you're like in your late 20s probably hmm what's the problem with touring with the girlfriend dude it's just a codependent motherfucker like me that it was just really hard I had to get through I've grown up a lot you know I mean but yeah it's just hard it's like the hard part is that I'm up for the work and Dan's up for the work and when we're on tour like that was going through I go through periods of time I get phone calls be like what the fuck are you doing motherfucker you know our know like I miss you like that guilt or it's like I'm like literally in the back of it for two Cano Vega like with like a torn-up copy of TV guide reading it for the fifth time because we don't make money no cellphone or like with a Nokia phone like getting the guilt trip and stuff

► 02:55:25

it's like to real to talk about our first to remember Dan having to stop at the PayPal flour then get the pay phone around our mic back I remembered that my brother Mike was with us I think a man like sucks to be Dan and then like literally like an hour later and be like I have to get to the PayPal myself dumbasses man but you have to go through that you have to learn to appreciate a good relationship you gotta go through those where the fuck are you related to it yeah but I mean that's the thing is like it's what I guess what doesn't kill you makes you stronger I read somewhere that that's not actually true Italy some shit clocks your body up it was some pretty hard just takes two years off your life maybe didn't kill you yeah took a decade off your longevity you know that's why that's why we're able to get to the spot where

► 02:56:17

here we are 2019 and where I don't think we're insane people are pretty close to the same people we were when we were in our twenties or and summon same t-shirts I'm not because it was way too small for me but yeah you know I think that there's there's a time like maybe 2012 our shit was really blowing up I mean we could do no wrong and

► 02:56:43

there was a bet there's a there's a there's an alternate universe for sure where we turned into complete dickheads an infinite number of infinite number of dickheads actually yeah we died multiple times at The Chateau it's like yeah and this it is in this version of reality Dan and Patrick don't play the Spike TV Video Game Awards they overdose at the Chateau Marmont yeah yeah do you mean you have to appreciate them that you guys have gone through quite the gauntlet it's pretty amazing I think that the best thing that ever happened to us is that we didn't experience success to our sixth album and when and what it is because if we would have got that we were 23 we would have never been able to sit down realize what what fuck was going on yeah yeah everything everything about us has been just for ridiculous all these synchronistic yeah but it's also that kind of luck and timing and right but that's where the simulation comes in bro

► 02:57:43

I didn't I think that's just where the that's easy I think that's his we're like the uniqueness and the crazy thing that's the crazy thing about life is it is certain things are rare it shouldn't be that crazy that relationship like Dan and eyes is so rare but it is right there aren't that many of them right but I mean there are a lot of like friends to start off playing music but they end up most of those stories and like in either just failure giving up hating each other MMO some shit version of that yeah so that but yeah simulation I mean dude

► 02:58:18

the simulation there has to be simulator to play the simulation on that's the problem it could just be were confused about what reality is in general it might be the reason why we think is simulation is because it exists in so many different planes and it's probably always shifting all around us all the time and some of the way you think does have some effect on the world itself well I used to wake up in the morning and

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► 02:58:47

drink a cup of coffee smoke a cigarette play video game jam on my drums drive around hang out my friends now I wake up and I do so much shit and none of it is necessarily stuff I want to be doing that I do think that there's no way we're in a simulation because I would never fucking the simulated that we don't get to choose well you go through I am I then you bounce over I'm trying to triangles to it cause I mean if you if you just decided that it was a simulation you said why don't like this discourse I want to shift some things about it it would probably be easier to do if you knew it was a simulation that it would be to shift them in your own life if imagine is doing too many things I'm just going to take these I'm going to face these out and piss these people off yeah no I that's why I think we're not living the simulation because every time I do make a decision to change something it gets better hmm

► 02:59:39

but if I ever so you're learning growing in real time yeah real time I mean it it might be my son is a lot of difficulties the biggest argument against the simulation I'm telling you is that Elon Musk married the same woman twice yes straight up it why not that Senate said it's your Quantum physicist to us to say that my dude has history most kind of to Sean Carroll yeah set it to him see what he could do with tell the crack the numbers on that shit yeah there's seven there's 3.5 billion women on earth this guy married the same person twice they stay the same so Circle they go out that dude she's Brave you're probably a wonderful woman dude yeah I'm not saying I'm just saying that maybe he missed her

► 03:00:22

you know yeah it is kind of crazy but hey I don't know like some David amazing that's like when you look at like I mean I've been married three times like a dickhead but it's like if you go let's have you look at my Wikipedia is like I'm always joking like I had to get to wife number three just so I could like have that like kind of Vince Neil fucking Wikipedia but it is like guys like that nobody looking like oh he's married to the same woman from 8485 back 88-89 back again yeah like who does that man took place to drink Larry King does that shit yeah Larry King he just got divorced again at 85 saw him laughs yeah we saw him last night is he partying Bunch Cherokee what Hootie actually drinking champagne party stands on Dad it's very here my he looked very old-looking he'd doesn't look that healthy like this is postures not that no not that robust if that way that thing where you get to that age and you just have to like they

► 03:01:22

forced to just drink Slimfast all fucking day it's a bummer to think that someone's getting divorced at 85 but then part of me goes well is it a more of a bummer to be in a terrible relationship when you're 85 it's probably a better relief like if you're if you're fucking throwing in the towel at 85 you're done I mean you're really like look really dumb I'm so tired and I can't do this it's just I think about it done at 85 times for all that shit he held the work it takes just I just want to be there are 85 and that goes to the ocean and just Chuck's itself out and fuck you / whole new phone new carrier fuck you go stir what if he marries her again next year does open bears are again tomorrow but I can say that was no prenup either could see how he he might marry a previous wife it's if she was going to take care of him in his last couple of years and they were closed till yeah that would make sense Richard Pryor had that going on towards the end of his

► 03:02:22

if he was being taken care of by one of his previous wives I can see that that's sweet that's kind of like a pretty sure that's like Oprah best seller it's definitely one of his wives I might have fucked that story up definitely one of his wife I understand of leave it the way you told it because I prefer it that way and like it did in some in some simulation it is that way yeah

► 03:02:43

that's a beautiful way of get along get away with some sort of facts like what if troll one was part of troll to I've been oh shit and different different dimension right well Troll 2 is like the almost evidence of something wrong like like the simulation has been like there's a problem in the record that's put out of a terrible movie yeah I'm forgot they didn't put out the prequel do you know do you know Harmony korine he wrote the movie kids and Spring Breakers he dropped wow he's friends of ours and he was telling me this thing that blew my mind like five years ago he's like there's this movie called The Peanut Butter solution if you've heard of it no he's like dude he like everyone who watched this movie as a kid it was made in aired on TV and Canada he's like go look at the YouTube comments it's crazy and I went and looked at all the comics the same like oh my God I watched this as a kid and I forgot the whole thing

► 03:03:40

adjust now remembering it everyone every comment was that way he's like dude it was like Mass hypnosis the way it was edited it's like that it kind of created everyone to like forget that they are watching that they saw it and maybe maybe there is a troll one could whack I forgot it this took it away no no you know what it was it was troll Hunter that's what it was bring that out the came out 2010 now yes that's the movie I'm talking about yeah that's the schlocky movie pulled that up that's that's what I was thinking is probably inspired by troll to troll Hunter was these guys that were like trying to find these trolls and that you know it's just like just at the point in time before drones were effective kind of bought in that there was no Ariel Way of finding this thing that you had to wait for it to pop out of the woods like a found footage movie right yeah found footage but with special effects of a giant troll that comes out of the forest as tall as the trees and it's so stupid it might be better than that of the

► 03:04:40

movie because it's silly yeah here's the trailer so these people like well yeah we're trying to find it so revealing don't talk Tonto get to the troll bro where is it that it yeah there it is see it was giant chasing these fucking oh no Jesus

► 03:04:59

look at it there it is oh shit see so it's like found footage but with special effects fun fucking stupid movie that you know like you never really scared that someone is going to die because none of them are real people in your mind it's not that kind of movie nice it's like they could do whatever they wanted those people so that was the what I remembered I just couldn't so maybe that was it maybe that was troll to with else to put those a little trolls Troll 2 is there like human-sized yeah okay so now I mean it's really incredible film the first half of it the rest of it I would not recommend it actually Dan's Brother like it all takes place in this town called nilbog which is even one of the best parts is that it takes place in a town called No bog in the little kid like sees the sign and the rearview mirror like nilbog is Goblin backwards so it's actually about God cultures about goblins so Dan's Brother had the personalized plate Ohio plates and no bug

► 03:05:59

so yeah my brother Jeff and his glorious that's hilarious but through the rearview mirror man said Goblin pretty genius that is very smart man if you need that in your life you need to be tricking people with work that's the way to do it draw about goblins it's a weird thing to fixate on it's weird my brother strange strange character very strange you know they have those new plates the like digital plates and then if someone steals your car just has stolen that's cool it's weird though like a screen that projects the numbers and the letters weird yeah and then they can do that well for sure and and also they could track you like for sure they're tracking you because if it gets stolen and they know exactly where it is dude that's my favorite thing on earth is when someone like unfollowed you on Instagram like I'll shit my phone was hacked or the motive phone hacking is going on yeah well wasn't that there was a woman work for CNBC who said her website was hacked

► 03:06:59

she wrote a bunch of homophobic shit back in the day yeah but people say their account was hacked like that's what all they did they didn't go in there and push Russian websites that you know sell sex dolls no no they went in there just edited a few things to make you look like a piece of shit yeah yeah yeah but they did do that to Jack but the Jag was a bunch of racist shit imagine if Jack was just fucking with people and like watch this I'm going to see my account was hacked and I'm just get fucking crazy like Jack is probably like those cops that want to kill people after a while he's just he's so fed up with the system and then when censoring people and just all these people getting deep platform that he wants to just jump on Droppin bombs they just imagine wasn't inside plot like he just decides look I'm gonna hack myself just so I can see the most ridiculous shit there's no one's been arrested right now see if you were going to hack the CEO of the biggest fucking social media platform in the world when you think to be a god

► 03:07:59

I am ruthless investigation notes in the Mossad after those kids like who did it who drop the n-bomb on Jack's Twitter page they would find that person yeah it's like do with a million dollars then hunt them down

► 03:08:13

the plate is the playbook for in Step number one just my account was hacked yeah it'll move well I like at one point like lilies like people like I just hang out with at the bar say that it's like pack yeah it wasn't hacked I did get my Gmail account stolen once that did happen I was like Wow someone can do that they just steal your Gmail good I got sixty five thousand emails unread emails in my account I'd like love for someone to hack into that shit ain't nothing interesting in it parking lot for me all my emails are cool period sounds good period sitting around writing thoughtful as emails that is not me I'm not have time that shit being thoughtful call you on the phone if I need to oh my God we have a shit was hacked and

► 03:09:08

what do they do with it now my shit wasn't I know I'm staying low what they do where they do you they act in your was it your Twitter what was it packed in there and they found a direct message to you asked if we could be on the show did they say some fucked up shit about corn

► 03:09:28

dude when I got in my last Twitter well I've had two Twitter incidents one was with Justin Bieber and one was early on I tweeted like

► 03:09:41

inert in like 2010 I tweeted like something so stupid not even funny like Madonna's Crush we're on a tour bus and like we drive it to a show and SNL was on I said oh Madonna is crushing it on SNL and it was Lady Gaga that was the fucking joke but a year later it wasn't even like funny if she wasn't like that famous right now I'm gonna laugh that's funny well a year later some like Gaga monster found it I was like you know go kill yourself and I just I think I was one of the first people to maybe take this I mean take this tactic I started just retweeting the most vile shit that was like your fucking asshole kill yourself and just retweet it

► 03:10:25

and it was like a once again right with this boat like before it was like the thing before the me to is the bullying thing don't stop bullying it was just like these people were just like fucking crushing me on there and I started at 10 I started being like fuck Twitter man like fuck it well people will also say the your bullying if you retweet it because you're seeking your Twitter mob on them yeah but like you can spin anything however you want to do it but my Twitter mom was like fucking at the time was like 3,000 people in Ohio was more of a militia yes it's Lodge yeah but then you know the Justin Bieber thing happened and it was like I just I realized at that point like it's a real like hey these are all kids these are a lot of these people just fucking idiots like you shouldn't like you would be if you were 13 yeah if I was 13 I was like spout off anything they all these kids like are gonna add some thyme some point get a

► 03:11:24

but a corporation some of them to go through their shit deep and like can call into the office and but you see what's happening with Justin Trudeau the prime minister of Canada yeah and they found Brown face so he was in a good easy to dress in a way to how did they find all three of them the same fucking day well someone was searching for some shit you know maybe but it's he was in a costume in 1981 and we're upset we really need they make people wear have real Tweets we're saying that he should be horrified by this racism like is he is he just in a costume because it seems like he's just in a costume pretending these in Arabian guy is that really racist is called Arabian Nights yeah was I mean maybe it's insensitive now today but in 1981 guess what no one cared to the 1981 the one of the biggest films I think are not biggest with a big film was so Silver Streak my brother will older brothers obsessed with trains that he works for Amtrak now but in that movie there's a scene where G

► 03:12:24

Alder has to put on blackface yes and

► 03:12:30

you know that of course we've never gone now and I can see I'm sorry if I've offended but at the time when I saw that for the first time when I was 6 or 7 like you know that was a different time do you remember see Thomas Howell Soul Man remember that movie yeah there's like in the 90s he played a guy who pretended to be black to go to a certain School remember that I remember begging 2001 no not in 1981 just to clarify which one did Justin Trudeau stuff here's my 10 1981 yeah oh it happened in 2000 yeah 18 years ago oh that's a little different it's a little different it's a little different why didn't she was 81 where do I hear was 81 maybe I just repeated dumb numbers but what I don't know man I I've never worn a black face and I sure as fuck would remember it if I'd ever put it on that's why I was like I don't remember that pull up that movie Soul Man what what Thomas Howell who was it that said they couldn't remember wearing it someone that got in trouble a lot of person before

► 03:13:27

oh yeah who was that that was like a senator is somebody from Kentucky I don't know man I don't know if I could tell you everything I was for Halloween that I was Orville Redenbacher reason C this is C Thomas Howell and that's when he's the white guy and I forget what exactly it was tanning pills to get in the school is that what it was he took tanning pills oh my goodness to get into a school you took tanning pills Harvard or some college or something like that okay so and then route screwed ahead to when he turns into a black fellow and all sides van like here it is you see what he was talking into what was he talking into a noose oh Jesus

► 03:14:11

so he's going to kill himself because he took too many tanning pills could get into college oh right so I took the tanning pills to get and go but go to the picture of him who's looking in the mirror but imagine if you decide you're going to make this movie today Jesus imagine if you're going to make this movie today oh my God they would hang you that's Julie Liu this was like a harmless movie

► 03:14:34

in 1990 whatever it was when this movie came out this was an absolutely harmless movie that nobody protested about nobody cared it was really obvious what was going it was not a not a great movie but nobody cared imagine if you put that movie out today

► 03:14:51

did oh my God and you know I was thinking about the other day I was thinking about how fucking insane Doogie Howser is I was like if I was fucking sick and a twelve-year-old walk in the fucking office like seriously that's right he was a doctor he's a fucking 12 real doctor ever get the fuck out of here motherfucker yeah like seriously but they're not but after was he did I don't know but then I realized something I was like that it like this not only with you doctor but like every night after the day he would his he would sit down at his computer his journal and do his journal which is I know for a fact that like I don't know for a fact that I'm pretty sure that the whole basis of sex in the city's is based on that Duke Doogie Howser I think I think that they are connected you know how like they say that Family Matters is a spin-off of South Park Simpson perfect strangers Perfect Strangers

► 03:15:51

Vater doorman was I just train rattling off different cartoons perfect perfect strangers is supposed to take place in the same universe as family matters but I do think Sex in the City takes place in the same universe as Doogie Howser and maybe if you think of

► 03:16:07

what's that guy that she's always trying to date that the said mr. big maybe mr. Biggs Doogie Howser as an adult yeah never know never know

► 03:16:22

I never connected those two I don't think I've ever watched an episode of Doogie Howser and I've only reluctantly watched an episode of Sex in the City come from has on it a couple years younger than you so we were subjected to that shit but now kids don't even get time to watch it later three channels when we were kids yeah kids barely watch TV anymore what does it was a second-year resident surgeon he been cutting into people for a year already oh my God yeah kids today are not listening they are rather not watching anything they're watching things on their computer and they watching things on their phone they think that somewhere around 50% of what you're getting on Netflix these days kids are watch on their phone

► 03:17:04


► 03:17:06

hey look YouTube's a big one too is it did you say that this podcast most of it people watch on the phone 60% 60% on the phone and now they have phones like the Galaxy Note 10 is just all screen device you know you can actually enjoy it you can keep watch something at six point eight inches it's like a little TV yeah I mean you as we all had their watching movies on those being on tour being on the bus it's it's amazing that it really be honest it is incredible but when you guys toward you always go bus to bus City to city or do you do fly city city or just always do the bus thing here's the thing here's the thing about torian is like it's say Dan walks in it's like man I fucking hate the fucking boss what happens is a typically a manager says oh you don't even fucking is fucking fly private dude you Hub out of swab out of Jackson Hole on the west coast dude yeah fucking great the trip the thing is is that the manager still get in the famous same cut of whatever you're making

► 03:18:06

can you just spending all of your cash like the most genius thing you can do in the music business if your if your music business manager manager or business manager is to get your client to spend all the money because I just have to work more and your shit comes off the top yeah I mean dude you're playing three-dimensional music business chest yeah they created a personal chef and a trainer and everything they have Brian man get him whatever he wanted to go off crash a Ferrari on stage every day then I'll just be like Ted Nugent get a buffalo why didn't I need the Buffalo I have I have a I have a buffalo head of my house to Ted Nugent gave you gave to Michelle really wow that's huge 68 you killed in 68 really 1968 it's what he told Michelle's brother was his drum tech for year for a while shit

► 03:19:03

it's a good way to end this podcast

► 03:19:05

Sunday with that do we did like three and a half hours Jesus it's 3:30 damn I'm telling you I had it been like to do sometimes you need to do this you need to do your own a hundred percent and I think it could it could serve a great function well it's so easy to do what does come on here again anytime you want but it's so easy for you to do your own I mean you can get one of those little fucking zoom zoom mic right that it or sure makes them like a bunch of different companies make these yeah I'm sure you do and just get on the bus and with the Ambient sound and everything it would actually be kind of cool to hear that and just talk shit and dude people would fucking love it and you could have that be like the interstitial in between great songs that you love I'm not again not opposing is good idea I think it's I think it's an amazing idea

► 03:19:59

cheese yeah man all right you're going to do it thank you for being here thank love you guys thank you very much bye everybody

► 03:20:08

thank you friends thanks for tuning into the show and thank you too door - you can get five dollars off your first order of $15 or more when you download the door - app and you enter the promo code Rogan that's five bucks off your first order when you download the door - app from the App Store and you enter the promo code Rogan promo code Rogan for five dollars off your first order at door - I want if they if I say it too many times you're probably less likely to but to use it like Jesus Christ you have to say it five times I think I should say it twice the twice as good

► 03:20:40

anyway door - it's awesome you know what else is awesome

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cash app down to the cash app get your cash card for free visit the app store or the Google Play Store now and when you download the cash app and to the referral code Joe Rogan one word you will receive ten dollars in the cash app will send ten dollars to just in rennes fight for the Forgotten charity and last but not least we are brought to you by my motherfucking favorite jeans rev town I'm wearing them right now I wear them all the time they're so fucking comfortable they look great and they feel like sweatpants it's a crate it's a magic trick I pull on them like bro these are like yoga pants go to rev Town usa.com Rogan these jeans cost a fraction of the price of designer Brands but they're fucking better I'm telling you that the most comfortable shits you're ever going to put on shits I love censored shit's as a 52-year old white man when I say the most comfortable shits I just feel like I'm in my wheelhouse anyway rubdown ships internationally you get them delivered to your doorstep no matter where you live so head over to

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Town usa.com Rogan I'm telling you if you're used to regular jeans these motherfuckers are going to blow your mind rev Town usa.com Rogan we did it thank you for tuning into the show we appreciate you and hope you enjoyed it I did God damn those guys are cool bye love you