#1369 - Christopher Ryan

Oct 23, 2019

Christopher Ryan, PhD is a psychologist, speaker, and author of New York Times best seller “Sex At Dawn” and he also hosts a podcast called “Tangentially Speaking” available on Apple Podcasts & Stitcher. His latest book “Civilized To Death” is available now: https://www.amazon.com/Civilized-Death-What-Lost-Modernity/dp/1451659105

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you can drink while you're working right how about that you could drink in front of your mom go out and get a six-pack of Heineken 0 0 right next to Heineken original at your favorite local store today Heineken 0 0 now you can my guest today is a very good friend of mine he is an author he wrote sex at dawn and he has a new book out called civilized to death the price of progress I love talking to him he's brilliant and he's just an awesome guy please give it up for my friend

and Christopher Ryan

The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day

hello Chris Ryan hello officially it's come on buddy everything you just English looking motherfucker and I just think over that's to go t the whole deal yeah it comes and goes I don't know what you been up to man I've been following your Instagram Chronicles you don't you yeah traveling the world in a van what are you doing Vance apology I call it Civ anthropology tour yeah yeah I love it man it's like you know you and I've probably spoken about in my 20s I backpacked all over the world hitchhiked

laska couple times and you know did all these Adventures a sprinter van that you have a bed in and of cooler and a freezer and that's kind of like a backpack for a older slightly richer dude you know that's how I look at it because you have everything you need with you yeah which is a feeling I love I love just being able to say you know what I'm tired I'm going to pull over and sleep right here and before I do I'm going to have a couple of beers and listen to some music and you know it's like everything I Need Is Right Here Right can you

you what is the deal with pulling over in a sprinter van and drinking are there a lot you know like you're not even allowed to be drunk in the backseat of your own car yeah I believe a if you have a bed it's considered a domicile that's what I've been told I'm not a legal expert but my understanding is that the front two seats are considered the vehicle but beyond that in the back where you have the bed and the all the stuff that's considered your house so a war

and to search is the same as someone coming into your house oh yeah because I know a dude who got in trouble because he was drunk in the backseat of his car because he knew he was drunk and says like I'm not fucking driving I'm just going to sleep it off and he laid down in the backseat of his car and the cops knocked on the door and he opened up the door and he said yeah I'm drunk and I'm sleeping off they arrested him that's bullshit yeah well you know caught some cops they feel

like they have to make a certain number of arrests you know some places have quotas yeah it's just I've always thought that so strange like what happens if no one commits crimes what did they do about the quotas they just make up crimes and how do they fill those presents that are you know dependent upon 98 percent occupancy rate yeah the assume that there's going to be a certain amount of people that fuck up like what happens if something happened some I mean I don't know what it would be other than man

consumption of mushrooms across our people just population breaking laws yeah people just stop they'll just pass the law and you every one of us breaks several laws every day right like there are laws we don't even know exist that we're break like what kind of laws you think God I don't know I read an article about this years ago I'd be hard-pressed to give you examples right now but I'm sure their financial laws and we're all cheating on our taxes not me

me not me not me but everyone I know except for Joe I well I handle my hand mine off to accountants yeah that'll handle that at all but I mean cutting Corners you know we're all cutting Corners Iran to yellow lights on my way here I'm here I probably you know it's four miles per hour over the speed limit hmm so that's how they get you yeah I mean a lot of Thomas Vehicles yeah that kicks into gear that's going to be real interesting when no one ever breaking the speed limit what do they do what is this Jamie six laws you broke

Aunt Jamie where the best man cracked.com always has great articles like this so what does it say what do we got here connecting to unsecured Wi-Fi networks that sounds law what why are you guys so if you go to Starbucks and it's an unsecured or the airport that's their user open for that purpose but like if someone act like your neighbor leaves there's an open up think that's what it's saying right here oh I say to that Wi-Fi squatting what about every time you click on one of you update some soft

and you click agree I have read and agree to this but you didn't read that shit well whether he reads it one of the things that Snowden talked about yes oh yeah about the terms and conditions right that you you accept and who knows what's in there that then you're not complying with when I would have to have a lawyer go over every piece of it and then a lot of is open to interpretation and they can change it a moment's notice right one of the things that you see in terms and conditions is they have the ability to change it without notice which is like what

Sam has had a great podcast with this guy who was an expert in data collection he was talking about what's actually happening now is that we have there's a commodity that commodity is data and we didn't know it was a commodity and then all of a sudden these companies like Facebook and Google made billions and billions of dollars off of this commodity that we didn't even know we were giving up and we didn't know that they had it we didn't know it was valuable and then you know this is no way to

protect it and that's their business model their business model is and then also their business models tricking you into clicking on things by getting you outrage so they're consistently bringing up things whether it's you know Trump or abortion or whatever it is that like gets you riled up that outrage algorithm right going to find your little soft spot yeah oh God tell you just posted something on that recently Twitter Facebook thing yeah Facebook yeah yeah it was an argument that Facebook is the

what it is is and an algorithm that's designed to find outrage so it's not free speech right it's just an outrage accelerometers right well you think about even you know that goes back to William Randolph Hearst you know saying like you know I'll I'll give you the war you know I'll you give me the war I'll sell the papers and get the public behind it because it's good business yeah yeah yeah it's it's an interesting world isn't it is it

are you talking about Tristan Harris was that the guy on Sam Harris is podcast the ethicist I do not know I don't I don't remember I heard him on Sam Harris has podcast he was a I think he has a PHD in computer science and philosophy and he worked at Google as they're like in-house ethicist and then he quit because it's like there's no such jobby evil exactly stopped having that don't be who doesn't exist it doesn't exist I'm crazy is that when you have that yeah let's get rid of that you can be evil

what a weird thing to have both have and then weirder still to remove yeah yeah I went to get a marriage contract that has that clause in it where you can update it without notification you know just get that in there have your lawyer slip that into the pre note any moment you could bail it's fine bail or just change the terms you know yeah yeah I don't know it's a strange World Joe that's why I like being in my van keep things simple well humans are strange creatures

you know and we vary so widely that you know trying to make any sense of putting 300 million of us together on a lot on island descent yeah good luck with that and we vary not only individually but I think we very we become different creatures in different conditions Shore people sometimes will ask me like what's your you know what is human nature what's your opinion you know based on these books and I say it's like asking what's the natural state of a

200 right boiling is it ice exactly what other what's that pressure what's the altitude yeah don't you feel like you're different people with different people as well yeah yeah I had a girlfriend a Spanish she was sure her mother was French or Father's cattle on she was raised in Spain and then lived in Miami which she was 13 to 15 or something so she spoke English really well Spanish French and Catalan perfectly right and we

were living in San Francisco and I was high was smoking a joint she was across the room talking to her mom on the phone in French and then her mom put her dad on the phone so she switched to Catalan and and I was just high enough that I noticed like wow that's not Peggy talking to different languages and at 3 because she would like put her hand on the phone saying my mom said I don't know so English French Consulate it's not Peggy speaking three languages those are three different

Peggy's she's different her facial tics and her movements in her body position changed depending on the language she was speaking right and at the time I was in grad school and I thought this is like multiple personality disorder so I started researching multiple personality and I sort of came up with this idea that language in her case because she learned them all when she was very young reconfigures the brain

in in such a way that she actually has different identities in those languages and next time we were fucking I started talking to her in Spanish and she freaked out she mad at you she like like I was I was a stranger suddenly yeah I just said sighs you know just said like you're beautiful or something she's like get away from me you creep because our whole relationship had been in English yeah yeah it's true

anyway so I looked into multiple personality disorder the story has everything and I don't know if you've checked that out you remember Stan Lee krepner my buddy came down to the pockets with yeah he had done a bunch of research on that and

there was a movie called Sybil yeah I remember that he was the consultant for that move he was also a consultant for Rosemary's Baby remember that the The Possession yeah yeah anyway as a plan ski movie I think so yeah yeah one of the early ones yeah people have with multiple personality disorder the research is bizarre it seems to indicate that people have different physiological states in the different personalities

so you could have a different Baseline heart rate blood pressure you know these sort of damn Baseline heart rate yeah in the different even it's now this is des I don't know how reliable this is but I even read that some people have different ocular pressure so that one personality needs reading glasses and another doesn't what yeah oh my God how much is psychosomatic like really how much how much of who

Warren how you how your body works is dependent upon the way your brain is catching things right culture language personal experience I mean is it all your mood how much you slept the night before you know all these things tie into identity is something we take for granted but it if you start to look at it it's like it's like gravity you know gravity we sort of included in our calculations but nobody has any idea

it's happening right how does that work like own immigrant I tracked the real touchy about it oh really yeah when I brought it up he I think he's we had a weird conversation and I think part of the word conversation was the first conversation that he's had publicly since he's been accused of you know right well the he came back from sexual misconduct yeah well he was you know they found him innocent according to whatever internal right investigation they had you know when they're doing a television show right you know

Terry mm but it's still even if even if he's proven innocent you know you've got the weight of who knows how many people that think you're a creep now right you know and he's carrying that around because he was always thought of as being this jovial yes sweet nice guy so he's a little tense anyway that's why I start out admitting I'm a creep it's good ladies and gentlemen I am a fucking creep you can't shake a Charlie Sheen cannot shame Charlie Sheen but we had this conversation about

gravity and it was weird it was like I was arguing with him but I wasn't arguing it was like I was like what what is cause you like like what causes it and he's like we know he like he went into this whole thing we know what it is we know how to measure it we can make that's good enough for me yeah it was it was a very tense conversation that's interesting yeah what does it is a faith-based thing there you know like he's right they know how to measure it but we also know how to measure Placebo right and we don't know how the fuck that works

we know that hypnosis people can have open heart surgery under hypnosis or have limbs amputated or all sorts of amazing things with no anesthesia whatsoever because I really been done oh yeah yeah yeah have you ever been hypnotized yeah but I don't have high hypnotic ability that differs it's another thing that differs among people and Stanley actually has a really interesting Theory along those lines which is that in prehistoric populations hypnotic ability

would be adaptive because a lot of the healing rituals were keying into Placebo response so if we have a certain ritual if you're susceptible to you know you believe in that like Voodoo there's a hmm you know Voodoo death people died when their a spell is cast earliest because they believe it if you don't believe it doesn't happen so it happens the opposite direction as well with healing so his idea is that that

been a very adaptive characteristic in prehistoric societies where as in contemporary societies it's maladaptive because you're more susceptible to advertising your easier to manipulate yeah hmm yeah so I yeah I've I've when I was in grad school I had some professors who worked with hypnosis and I studied it a bit along the same around the same time I was looking at multiple personality disorder because I was real interested in this

the question of how the brain and the body interact how much of it was all this research showing that people with the same condition and in hospitals exactly the same age same prognosis and all that they heal significantly faster if their Hospital window looks out on trees as opposed to looks out at another building looks like that just looking at something like nature yeah Keys the body into some sort of energy

that helps it to heal completely makes sense I've met people with multiple personalities well Rosanna Rosanna Scotto doesn't she make sure that's true I know another one that's weird one is the football player Herschel Walker I think he had trauma induced multiple personality disorder well does she there's articles it says that Bill Bill Maher reminds us she does and then Roseanne says she doesn't so yeah I think and then the seeds does one says seven having seven personalities is tough her saying it so

oh yeah well here's the thing about Roseanne I mean I'm saying this for the tenth time I guess she was hit by a car when she was 15 and she was put in a mental institute for nine months afterwards she had severe brain damage and she lost her ability to do mathematics and like really scramble your brain and that is probably the birth of the Roseanne that we know the comedian and that's also the case that Sam Kinison Sam Kinison was also like a pretty normal kid and then he was hit by a car

and you know pretty severe brain damage as well and brain damage for especially apparently as a especially has an impact on your ability to be rational and impulsive behavior like people with brain damage a lot of times get very impulsive it's been very so widely you know it's what happens to you dependent upon like what kind of trauma where the trauma is what part of your brain

but when they said about Herschel Walker was always confused I wonder if it was from football like football trauma or was it personal trauma like you know abuse yeah people with letter diagnosed with multiple personality disorder if I remember correctly almost always were severely abused as kids you know and in fact the the rationale is that they develop the alternate personalities as a way of escaping a reality that's intolerable

make sense yeah yeah I mean what people do weird things with horrible memories you know they bury them to the point where they don't even really have access to them anymore yes sexual abuse and some traumatic events when you're young yeah who put the fucking human brain than the way it adapts and molds two things is so bizarre yeah there's a there's an anecdote that is in this book civilized to death notice that segue good segue to thing yeah it's by the

way the art is done by a guy listen to my podcast really it looks like but the art by guy was cheeseburger a chimp wearing a cheeseburger with a nice suit on yeah it's got an iPhone oh yeah the story so there's a species of grasshopper in North Africa that you know they hang out there grasshoppers that they're dispersed they eat grass they chill right

rains come the grasslands expand grasshopper population increases then the rain stopped the grasslands contract to the point where the pain the density of the Grasshoppers triggers dormant genes so there's an epigenetic event in these Grasshoppers and they start to transform and not over Generations individuals front legs get shorter back legs get longer thorax changes shape of the head changes coloring

ages and behavior changes from being these chilled-out solitary relax grasshoppers they start attacking each other they become cannibalistic and they swarm Locust Locust exactly they become Locust yeah so this species of Grasshopper And Locus is the same species it's the same DNA it's just responding to different conditions so you know we're talking about the brain and you know who you are and what identity is and all that and this I was

mind you this when you said you know people are so different and the H2O thing we're not only different as individuals in the same context we change completely given the context wherein yeah so the focus of this book is the hunter-gatherers were essentially a different sort of animal they were essentially you know the parallel is with the Grasshoppers and now we're swarming yeah now we're a different kind of animal even though our DNA is the same well that completely makes sense to me people that live in small towns are so different than

live in cities yeah it's so rare that you find someone as a small town sensibility in Manhattan get chewed up yeah literally yeah literally yeah it's um that's the the Locust things amazing have you ever written or read rather the accounts of the settlers in the you know the pioneer days making the way across the country and dealing with these swarms of locusts and really not having any idea what to do with them and how to handle it eat them yeah you can

Americans 8 mm yeah that's probably a real good move right that's one of the things that people think is probably an excellent solution to some of the issues that people have with meat because a lot of people don't have any problem killing bugs but they wouldn't want to kill a lamb right you know but you can have Cricket proteins reload micro agriculture yeah Cricket proteins apparently like very healthy I've eaten crates yeah I have to in Thailand I've had them in Mexico oh yeah Mexico they they

and fried and we're staying at a resort in where was it I've Punta Mita yeah I think it was down there Puerto Vallarta yeah and they had a bowl in the resort like when we walked into the hotel room like okay yeah they had like sliced mangoes and then they had fucking crickets and I was like all right I'll try that I hosted Fear Factor there's a restaurant here in La that I was at just a couple weeks ago that has all sorts of crickets and grasshoppers always we called it Sam

Mexican place they specialize in moly I don't remember a good Mexican place really good isn't it weird that like there's a lot of great Mexican food in LA but it's like you know like your basic burrito joints and Tacos it's not like gourmet Mexican food it's very few gourmet Mexican plow this place is that it right there yeah that's it that's right couldn't remember the name Jamie wag Wetzel no I just another word it's

like a I don't know if it means party but it's a celebration down I think Oaxaca yeah well Haka serving up insects yeah check it out it's a place I really the moles Fanta where is that at what part of LA on a London Olympics okay deep in the Heart of Texas yeah bam beautiful yeah no way I love mole and and let's face it shrimp Lobster that's just bugs was just big see bugs well we found that out on Fear Factor because people that are allergic to shellfish are also allergic to

roaches huh yeah we found that out the hard way little lawsuit no no if the dude was allergic to shellfish and you had to eat Roaches for this thing and you know they wound up having to give him an adrenaline show then yeah he was seasoned up a little bit and your windpipe starts constricting yeah I'm not allergic to anything as far as I know graduation I'm very happy yeah me too yeah that's a bummer man allergies are above especially for can peanuts I've heard people

analogies are so bad that people will ask you to not eat peanuts on a plane with someone who has a peanut allergy like some people's peanut allergy is so severe that even like the dust of you chewing peanuts on a plane next to them get them sick and and it's interesting to think about the State of Consciousness and how that affects allergies because apparently and again I'm always cautious about saying shit on the show there's so many people listening so

caveat it's been a long time since I read the research but if I remember correctly under hypnosis a lot of people with allergies no longer in fact I remember the research yeah there was a it was a setup where the person could see so like you and I are talking across the table and there's a mirror behind me and in the mirror in your peripheral vision you see roses

and you're allergic to roses you'll have a reaction even though they're plastic roses so it sort of enters the Consciousness and triggers the response subconsciously yeah if I think that's how it was and then with people under hypnosis like Andrew why I wrote about this cat allergies he was tripping it was on MDMA I think and he's playing with a cat and had no reaction to it wow yeah okay this self hypnosis

Welch's allergies picture indeed a Jamie in my life damn picturing ski slopes reduces hay fever symptoms by a third look at that picturing ski slopes how weird what a weirdo I'm skiing huh what cause you're picturing a place where there's no pollen right right yes you could probably picture the surface of Mars to yeah well you've got a needle like you get a shot in the doctors about to give you the shot and you start like tensing up like you feel this like the anticipation to me

is it like your heart starts quickening and you get like really weirded out by it but then you get the shot and like that wasn't shit like why was I freaking out like that but it's this the psychosomatic aspect of it I think that's what life is basically and I'm not sure yeah Shelton and now it's like we're always worried about things we spent so much time worrying about things most of which never occur yeah you know and even the ones that do occur it's like wow whatever like death you know what is I'm not worried about death dying Maybe

if it takes too long but if it's if it takes like an hour or a day to die that's a tiny fraction of your life who gives a shit you're not a guy that really spends a lot of time working on Fitness or health or it's a nice way to put well you you enjoyed that article he's so funny I love you I take it as a compliment you got things to do than work out Joe I get it you enjoy that article that I wrote a long time I did but the same

and yeah human bodies like a sand castle Yeah you can make it beautiful but it's not gonna last yeah it's you and you know that going in you know that way yeah and I and I mean I've got this idea for a book if I keep writing books which is sort of a self-help book but it's a parody of self-help books and so it'll be it'll be calling attention to the way so much of what we do to try to be healthy is actually counterproductive because we stress especially Americans everything's work you know everything turns into work and

in the very suspicious of pleasure we're taught to the pleasure is you know evil and dangerous and all this hmm I've never bought that line of reasoning I've always felt like what feels good generally is good there's a reason it feels good you know now that can get corrupted by advertising and false messaging from a sick society that tells you you know sit on the sofa and drink beer and eat bags of chips all day but if you get beyond that

that and you can actually hear the voice of your body I think if your body is telling you to you know stay in bed because it's a rainy cold day now I know this is totally against your perspective on life where you're like you gotta tame the inner bitch you got to get out of bed you got to work out it doesn't matter I'm like no man I'm staying in bed like you you go do what you need to do I used to climb mountains with his friend of mine in Spain and he was like you he was a fucking billy goat he'd like go up to

and I'd go with him till I got to a nice spot with a nice view I'd be like dude I'll be here when you come down taking a nap got a bottle of wine and some cheese I appreciate that too I'm not married to my perspective but I think I have a very peculiar biology that Demands a certain amount of exertion yeah make sure saline and I friends like that I mean you know lots of friends like man I if I don't run

run every day I feel like shit I'm like running is very addictive though I feel fine yeah you get you get used to that there's a high that you get from running that's really interesting and any long-term cardiovascular exercise you get this it's like we did you know last October we did the sober October thing we had this crazy fitness challenge so all of us were doing cardio like five hours a day like we're really crazy amounts of cardio and one of the things that Tom Segura and I both agreed on is like the amount of

chatter dissipates to 0 I give no anxiety it goes I didn't realize I had any anxiety until that happened and then I was like God it goes to 0 it goes to nothing like when you do like 5 hours on a treadmill or you just running just run when it's done man there's this like peace of mind that comes with that this release of endorphins that's incredibly addictive because that feeling is so

wheezing so it's not that it doesn't it doesn't feel good to get out of bed and didn't to just push when you don't want to but the end result feels amazing it does feel so I like I wonder if there's any research looking into whether that effect happens universally because I've worked out I've run there were times in my life I've never I've never gotten a runner's high never

get my teeth hurt my knees hurt my back hurts I feel my brain bouncing around in my skull you know I'm half a mile into it I'm like fuck this this doesn't feel good you have to get in shape first that's a big part of it it's not it's not that simple it's like for me I never really got into running like the first time I really did any serious running a my friend cam Haynes had a 5K

okay which is what is that three miles something like that so I'm like yeah and I didn't run at all in preparation for it and when I ran the 5K I was like Jesus Christ this is hard like I didn't have a there was no good feeling at all you know it's running on concrete and shit right in Vegas it's gross and Vegas Melanson in the air and but when it was over I was like okay obviously I'm not I'm in good shape but not in good running shape at all so I should probably get in shape

so then I started running and then when I got into running and it particularly running hills then I started feeling it once I kind of got in that kind of shape and then when the you know when the workouts are over like I run all the time now and when it's over I just have this yeah you and Marshall are Ya Doin your thing it's great yeah fucking light and he loves it too there's a crazy bonding experience with that dog you know when because he loves it you know I got my dad a golden retriever

you're the best dog years ago when my dad was like you know I get maybe its genetic is he's pretty lazy he came home from work and he'd seen us in front of the TV and drink vodka and get upset about the news and and my mother didn't like dogs but I my sister and I convinced her that Dad needs a dog because Dad will get this dog and he'll go for walks because the dog needs to walk and so we got them golden retriever he named it Stoli bad sign right there and then and then

he never went for a walk stole just sat next to him and got fat whore stole I know yeah well it's common doesn't always work no yeah it helps me get going because I know that he needs exercise yeah it does but it helps me to and it's fun like I talked to him when we run you know I guess we're running you know I have a little conversations with them yeah cool fun and he's not judging you right really give a fuck I could be fat I got covered in shit

wouldn't give any probably prefer that more interesting yeah it's but the the runner's high is a real thing but you have to achieve some level of Fitness before I think it kicks in yeah I closest I've come to that is the sex hi hmm you know stuff yeah now during quite and outs like maybe there's like a workout element to that ball sacks when you're really aroused and you really attracted to the person like in the middle of the act of it it's like you're on a drug yeah

it can be like this incredible elevation where you your high basically your hi in this short for instance arouse State yeah yeah and you have that that hyper-focus that you're talking about and removing anxiety you're not thinking about yeah you know anything other than where you are it's one of those beautiful moments I had a guy in my podcast recently who's like a legend in the world of

of like high-risk stuff he's a base jumper and he flies those wingsuits what's his name what is his name he lives in Bozeman Montana since dump no that's crazy because my friend Andy stuff lives in Montana to I'm sure he knows him he's he holds the world record for that wingsuit Chen's Stewart could it be man I don't remember I'm sure Andy knows him yeah for sure in Bozeman and this guy's 44 he's been doing it a long time and it's about how old and he is and he's probably probably flat

they're yeah yeah really nice guy but it was interesting like how you know here's this guy who's doing the super high risk adrenaline stuff and like he just had done this thing where he's paragliding with another dude on the Brooks range in Alaska and like just the two of them and they loved land and Camp oh my God you know know where bears everywhere like forget it and then they get up the next morning jump off the mountain and keep going this

but this guy was so calm he was just like it was like talking to Buddha or something he's just like so centered and relaxed and focused his beautiful had a really enjoyable conversation from my perspective anyway because I tend to be kind of scattered and you know tangentially speaking right I'm going all over the place where is he was just like it's just really centered and balanced it was nice you have to have laser focus if you

fuck around with that kind of stuff that's it you don't want to is that the gem yeah Jeff Shapiro that's yeah look at them yeah thanks Jamie looks yeah that's his his Falcon he jie got this Falcon as well right when I was starting to love them yeah it's gonna fucking frog he's all into into flight man he's yeah I guess so yeah he's yeah he's a cool dude those wingsuits man I mean we talk about risk versus reward fuck he told his story he was like he said yeah you know I

had the experience a few times of standing on this toes over the cliff 3,000 feet up or whatever and fist bump with your buddy and he goes and says see you know see you down there he goes and then you hear it Bang Yeah you know like I've carried dudes bodies Out of the Woods you know yeah I've done that too many times he was talking about you know these different approaches and how the young guys tend to be more fucking man I'm they think they're

ball and his age he's seen enough he's carried enough bodies he's lost enough friends that he's not thinking that way anymore you know and he doesn't want to be around guys who are because right he doesn't want to deal with the trauma you know well it's all there's a competitive aspect to it too come on don't be a pussy yeah you know like that stuff can get you killed too because then it's just like sort of hijacks your own way of interacting with whatever the fuck this danger is yeah yeah yeah up here

pressure yeah that's real yeah I start off I'm a pussy I'm a creep I'm a pussy you know like you got no leverage p.m. press lazy you know what fascinates me man mob mentality a mob mentality like like you know if there's like a riot that like physical violence in a way that you would never like a lot of people who would never think about hitting someone when people are hitting people all over the place you'll just dive in like people dive in and kick people

bunch of people hmm it's very weird like bar fights you see I've never seen one in real life I've seen a bunch of them hey does that happen people just randomly punching each other yeah people just punch people yeah I've seen some I've seen some pretty chaotic brawls it's it's but there's a strange feeling in the air it's almost like a smell

you don't like you Jim you not I was in a at a riot and that earlier that the in the day we like we're like The Hornet's Nest is going to explode tonight we kind of felt it what was the premise after the Ohio State Michigan game like 2002 the Ohio State Michigan game I don't really listen to football thing of it but there is a huge day big event we want in a very close game undefeated season for Ohio State's they're headed to National Championship this then meant sofas on fire in the street for like the next

hours and then shortly as the night exploded there was a couple bonfires in the middle of the street we went we her saw that on the news so we went close to see it because we're a couple blocks away as we got close we heard the knee knocker bullets getting fired out so everybody scattered with those rubber bullets yeah from like sweet everyone went from one street on campus to like three other streets then it started up again the street I was on seven cars got flipped over everything and lit on fire so people started trying to like move there

Carson didn't lose it because they're college kids don't have any money whatever a lot of those people got caught on videos expelled from school whatever but at the end of that street I was at we were on and we saw all the riot police the SWAT team like lining up they started firing out tear gas everywhere a tear gas canister ended up on the porch of the house we were in like exploded in the house almost like we were all coughing and had to get the fuck out of there lasted for a couple hours like no one died anything like that there was a lot of violence but just 12 to 15 cars got fucked up the thing is somewhat could have died

that's what's really that's what's really crazy about those chaotic moments of violence is that when when something's in the Air Act and you see like a big brawl going on it's like everything seems it seems like civilizations flimsy like for that brief moment I think there's a natural thing that kicks in with people that sort of allows them to act in war and allows them to act like when the tribes invaded like when you know when

neighboring Army invades your village there's some thing that kicks in where you like recognizes violence and you just look to swing on anybody that's around you and you see it in these these brawls when you see some sort of a riot like you see these people and you like I guarantee that guy's never punched anybody before in his life he's running over trying to punch people and everybody's punching everybody and people are swing in and you know you see it in these fucking whenever you see like like an antique

versus proud boys type thing you know what I mean like these left versus right Trump supporters versus Bernie Bros and DC chaos about online or online I haven't read those in person but when you see these moments where all these travel moments where it feels like it could break out into violence at any time Sofia is a smell in the air it's like it changes the atmosphere of the air and you feel like you got to protect yourself like anything can happen at any moment

Aunt from people that you would never think of as being violent like you would net you mean you would never assume that these folks would be violent to then they don't look scary they're not scary looking people but everybody just seems to get out it's like a thing happens like the Locust right like a little trigger happens with people Armament yeah havior patterns yeah yeah often wondered about what that is because I've been around it a bunch of times and why was around at once big time in high school when I was in high school when I was in high school there was a

kid who lives in this really nice house and he'd moved into the neighborhood for the first time and he decided he's going to have a party to meet meet a bunch of people make friends and people start robbing his house and a brawl broke out I'll never forget it and I was there I was there at the Event Horizon of the brawl I was there at the moment it happened a girl did something to a guy I can't remember what she did I can't remember she threw a drink in his face or she hit him I don't remember but I remember him hitting her because I remember him

I remember him pulling his hand back my all my guys gonna punch her in the face and boom he punched her right I mean like he knew how to punch to it was like a real punch to face the girl goes unconscious and then you know she falls back and then chaos I mean people diving on top of people piles of people out in the yard everybody's fighting everybody just ducking it's like a movie and then and almost everyone has no idea what they're even fighting you know I saw the moment it happened

they're kind of wish I could remember memories so sucky no it really is I have like yes blurry slides but I do remember that fist hitting her face because I remember he went like this I was like oh no he knows that a punch and he went bang they just cracked her in the face and she just looked her head went back and she went out cold and I think somebody caught her I think someone caught her as she was going down and then it was just melee and I'm but I remember the feeling in the air cause that was the first time I

I've ever been around anything like that I was like whoa It's piles of kids fighting on the you know all The River Fighting know I was running away from everybody there they get the fuck out of here yeah man I always did martial arts by was very very rarely involved in any extracurricular altercations so I just got the fuck out of there and the other time was when I was a security guard for Great Woods Great Woods is a place in Mansfield Massachusetts was like this concert venue and Neil Young was playing the vault

people and there was a there's a lawn area it's like left in his bed have you really yeah I can't tell that story so shit yeah nevermind various race so it's an Amphitheatre so there's this like this covered seated area and then behind the covered seated areas is gigantic lawn area and I remember it was cold out I remember what the deal was but people started lighting fires on the lawn like little bonfires and then it's just been chaos broke out we started trying

and the security people started trying to put out the fires until people stop and then people started hitting people and just crazy and I always kept a hoodie with me because I'm you know it's getting like $9 an hour or something like that right not gonna get shot for nine dollars an hour a beat-up fuck this so soon as shit went crazy I put my zip up I put my hoodie on them like I quit I quit the job nice and tassels as I was leaving has I was quitting I was watching people just beat the fuck out of people's like dodging my way through this thing like it

out of here with this stupid fucking job you gotta know when to leave it was a feeling it was like there's that fucking smell in the air like anything can happen at any moment now right yeah I mean you think about these dudes who come back from war with PTSD you know again it's this Consciousness context dependent Behavior where you know they they do things in that situation and then they come back to the normal world it's like coming out of a dream and it's hard to believe you

did that you know it's hard to believe that was you and how do you integrate that into your life with your wife and your kids and Mom and Dad and the neighbors and it's yeah I mean yeah those four guys they're dealing with some real heavy shit there and no one tells you how to do that he knows how to do it right yeah and no one gives a shit right like once they get there you know get you to go do what they want to do then you know it's hard to even get you know is what a two-year wait for any sort of psychological counseling is it really yeah

hands on the state but at least that I had a guy on the podcast actually the one Jamie showed his right before the wingsuit did was a dude who'd been in Iraq and then he came back and worked as a SWAT team Commander you know so he was like doing all sorts of really heavy stuff and then he just got out and now he's living off grid in Idaho raising three little boys with his wife and he's a former Marine

Mormon so he sort of talked about how his Mormonism taught him to respect authority and and do what he was told and and you know that just fed right into his experience and the Army and with the police and but Manny I have so much compassion for those guys who get out and like look back and say what did I do you know yeah who was that guy where how and how they

it's sort of like stop that like stop the thought process when they come back into civilization yeah but still have the memories and how do you trust yourself right you know that I'm not going to hurt anyone else you know yeah it's hard and yeah like like we're just saying they get very little support you know they are sent off to do this horrible stuff and then they come back and it's like okay now don't do

anymore yeah the the incremental progress that we achieve as a civilization is it's amazing but also so frustratingly slow that no one I mean no one I've ever talked to thinks there's going to be a moment in our life time with is no war no one no one thinks is going to be a moment in our life time with this no murder no one thinks is going to be a Moment In Our Lifetime was no rape where we just we just figure it out like I'm pretty confident if it was just the three of us forever

no one would rape anybody no one would murders the three of us three of us Sharona but you know what I'm saying because I'm probably the victim here but you know I'm saying like wet what number of people have how many people do they have to be yeah before one of those things becomes possibility yeah but what if you have a group of close friends a group of group of close friends who are good communicators and good honest healthy friendly people can live together and you know whatever issues you might have with someone not doing

dishes or someone forgetting to put back your lawn mower whatever the fuck it is you could work that out it's no big deal like what is what's the number of people a hundred and fifty okay that's done bars and unbiased way yeah I'm sure you've heard about that yeah I mean that might really be it might be really be what we're program for that's what hunter-gatherer that's where hunter-gatherer groups always Splinter yeah they never get beyond that and I think that's why because you know a hunter-gatherer Group which is egalitarian and sharing and cooperative and all

that by necessity right because that's how our ancestors survived is by taking care of each other mitigating risk you need reputational damage and if everyone doesn't know everyone reputational damage is no longer effective so if you let's say you go in you're a good Hunter and you kill an antelope and then you don't share it and you just keep it for yourself

that's not going to go over real well with a hunter-gatherer group you're going to be ridiculed chastise may be expelled from the group maybe have a hunting accident and died because that hoarding selfish behavior is extremely Taboo in a hunter-gatherer Society whereas you know you look at our society where reputational damage is no longer functional outside of your group of friends as long as you're good to your friends your golfing buddy

you can screw the rest of the world you can not pay your contractors for years and become president right you know everyone yeah everyone in New York I worked in real estate in New York in the 80s everyone knew who that guy was and what he was up to and the you couldn't trust him he was full of shit and he ripped everybody off and but that's how business Works in New York even the the company I was working for is really interesting to see how

your leverage increased when you owed somebody a lot of money you know is this that truism if you owe someone five bucks you have a problem with you owe them a million bucks they have a problem you know I really see that but yeah I think it's a hundred fifty is the cutoff for how many people we can keep track of I think dunbar's number is proved to be pretty accurate well it seems to be what we what we evolved to sort of be accustomed to right

that's the one that is number your cortex that's you know Dunbar was looking at the brain anatomy of different primates and by looking at the proportion of a neocortex to the rest of the brain he predicted the maximum Social size of those primates of each of the species wow and that's how he came to the estimate of a hundred and fifty for humans and then they went and looked at people they did you know data collection so crazy yeah they can see the physical size of something like

like that that there's a direct correlation like like the direct correlation between the size of primates testicles and the amount of promiscuous females in the area you've read sex at dawn yeah finally a long time ago man I read it a long time ago I'm thinking I might do I did the audiobook of civilized to them which I really enjoyed that process I'm thinking I might do a tenth anniversary director's cut audiobook of sex at dawn did you do the audio version who did

actors yuck yeah oh yeah yeah Steve rinella he wrote a book on Buffalo the American buffalo you know just the history of buffalo in this country and someone else wrote it and he finally got the rights back and he did it himself now yeah but just tell her I'm gonna build him because the person who read it it was like a soap opera actor right had no connection to the material at all and in sex at dawn there's a lot of there's a lot of jokes and you know sort of Raya sides and stuff

the people who read it they don't get it they didn't get the humor so it's just the straight ahead it's as if you know someone took your comedy material and just read it in a monotone it's that's called come on criticizing me in a blog do it someone takes it and just puts it in quotes like that yeah yeah good point yeah there's no delivery there there's no voice it's yeah yeah I'm looking forward to that and I think I'm going to I don't know if Steve did this or not but I think I'm going to as I said a director's cut so

I'll let you know when I read a paragraph that reminds me of something or do you know what I thought when I wrote that or you know my dad really wanted me to include that phrase or you know whatever little asides so there will be some commentary as well I think yeah that's a good move yeah JB's Goggins had a really interesting way he did his he did his book where he actually didn't read it he had a friend read it and then in between paragraphs they discussed all the different events that happened that he talked

about and he gave other details that weren't in the book right so the audio book is essentially an audio book / podcast yeah yeah so you're not just getting a reading of the book you're getting bonus material is well yeah it's really good it's really good that's yeah I mean there's no rules of that kind of stuff you know it's your book right and kind of do whatever you want you could even talk about how you feel now about that chapter sure you could always what I would

change yeah yeah yeah or how you feel about the material itself and but how you interact with the facts that you uncovered verses before yeah do you there is a I don't listen to audio books much but in the van last summer I listened to the Keith Richards autobiography oh yeah yeah it is interesting he reads like the beginning and then this actor who sounds like him oh no has the same accent reads most of it and then Johnny Depp

breeds a couple of chapters and then Keith comes back at the end well that was one of the weird things about Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas was Johnny Depp reading Hunter Thompson and then in a wet you know honestly did a better job of reading Hunter Thompson than Hunter Thompson has done reading Hunter Thompson yeah you know there's that famous speech about being there at the end of the 60s and watching the waves pull back to her you know that it crashed

the Rocky Mountains and then rolled back and yeah see that's a fantastic speech but the way Johnny Depp said it was better yeah like he have you ever seen breakfast with Hunter yes remember he freaks out about that particular yes it's because you who is it Alex what they were going to animate they're going to animate it yeah and he fucking pulls out the gun and kick them off the property and totally loses his shit you're gonna take the best thing I've ever written and make it a fucking cartoon yeah amazing

yeah that's how I used to go off he was so crazed you ever meet him know angry angry that I never met him yeah yeah I would love to meet him yeah and you probably are probably a few years there where I could have could have yeah fuck yeah it's a few people Dick Gregory he's one that I really wish I met them I would have loved to talk to him about what it was like to show the Kennedy assassination footage on Geraldo Rivera like ten plus years after the fact

you know the Zapruder film yeah he introduces a Pruder film to the world really yeah Dick Gregory is like meet him a black comedian yeah right yeah yeah remember yeah he brought the Zapruder film to Geraldo Rivera and they played the Kennedy assassination on television should hadn't been seen no publicly known only to not been seen publicly I believe Time Magazine owned it I think they bought the rights to it so you see if that's

and they shelved it for I want to say 12 years it was like 75 when it aired on television somewhere in that range and you know the assassination was 63 was 63 and think it was 63 I was born in 62 yeah yes it was right after I was born and so no one had seen his head go back into the left until that footage

and then people like wait what the fuck really which doesn't necessarily how did it Gregory get the rights I do not remember huh I think I don't remember who else have you met Verna hertzog I've not are you into him yes yes he's here man is one of my all-time favorite movie too it's one of the best unintentional comedies ever but I don't think it's particularly unintentional there's a fucking moment in that film where the sheriff when the sheriff's talking

like the body and they can't carrying the body off and bags yeah it's like you know what did you think well first time I heard about it I thought he was retarded and then they could just has a smash cut to the Sheriff's face and I'm fucking howling yeah I'm howling laughing and I'm like this guy did this on purpose like there's so many Cuts in this movie that are so humorous yeah I got to thank that and Werner herzog's have you ever heard him on Eric Weinstein is podcast you know brilliant guy oh yeah he's really interesting intense guy

guy and very dark sense of humor yeah well that's why I've thought I was like this motherfucker did this on purpose yeah it made this a comedy so do you think that was the name of the character Timothy Treadwell yes yeah yes what I watch that movie my feeling was this guy is closeted gay dude hundred percent yeah you felt that too he brings up if I was gay it would be easy but I'm not gay right so he says because he say why

and I find a girl you know is like walking through the woods with this like lispy gay way of talking yeah and he's talking to the different people don't know what this documentary is about is about a guy named Timothy Treadwell and Timothy Treadwell was well I guess you could say he was a bear expert but not really because the real bear experts were like this guy doesn't know what the fuck he's doing get out of there like what he's doing is ready doesn't need to protect these Bears he's pretending that he's protecting these Bears he's living with them I think there's a certain element of

of it that was suicide by bear yeah I really do and he was walking through the woods holding this camcorder getting filmed going if I was gay I'd be so easy right talking to the camcorder as his only friend yes he's out there alone for months yeah every summer but no one who's not gay says well if I was gay he would be really easy and last year that a lot jealous you're being funny with a friend yeah like well if I was gay I'll just hook up with some dudes but he's saying it like why can't I find a girl if I was gay be so easy

you still live in the woods with monsters going to get a bunch of gay guys gay guys they want to be in Boystown okay they should remake the movie in a bear bar on Broadway that would be hilarious that would be hilarious there's a yeah instead of doing it with the forest and actual grizzly bears in the West Village yeah yeah if I was gay be easy there's bears everywhere I went to a beer bar with Andrew Sullivan and

Dan Savage there's there's actually a bear borrow their lots of beer bars they call him bear bars yeah that's yes for people don't know what we're talking about bears are big hairy gay guys gay guys think Tom Segura and Bert Kreischer they do a body could actually two bears 1 K Vo do it yeah that's hilarious but neither one of them was gay but yeah that's not the point but if they were gay they would be beard yeah yeah I don't know Bears Dan Savage is a trip I've had him on the potty yeah yeah I know I saw that

interesting he's an interesting guy he's he's super smart and funny as shit and he's armed with nothing but a sense of humor and a great intellect and a big heart he's an honesty yeah he's changed the world he is saved through knows how many lives you know he's a he's beautiful I really liked Anna yeah when someone can just be themselves again you know that's who he is and Timothy Treadwell if he had listened to Dan Savage everything would be different

well that leap man that coming out leap fuck's got to be so hard for people I know several guys that are closeted and it's torturous yeah torturous to see and one of them you know I've talked to him I was like just come out man and one gives a fuck we don't care you don't care you little be a giant relief Yeah just they worry about especially yeah actors yeah they're worried about the careers yeah yeah I mean you know when your

more important than the Integrity of yourself I don't think it hurts you I don't believe it yeah I don't believe it the only thing that would hurt with actors is leading man yeah Rock Hudson kind of guy yeah leading that's one thing that's fucking real like if you're a like I don't know if Tom Cruise is gay but that's always been stupid rumor right let's let's let's assume it's true yeah if he did come out of the closet man nobody wants to go see a movie where he's the leading man he's got a wife and kids your be like that guy sucking dick look here

he'll never buy into it that's the like a gay woman like Jodie Foster right could easily play a straight woman in a movie and no work are fine but when a gate that's the that is the fucking glass ceiling in Hollywood it's one of them right when a gay man comes out of the closet those roles John Travolta whatever it is whoever whoever would be I don't he's gay either but if he was that's the fucking that's that's where the buck stops you cannot be the

man who's the married guy with kids yeah or the hot man who's in a sexual relationship with a woman if we know that you're having sex with men but then it's funny right we can watch straight actors pretend to be gay like Brokeback Mountain shorts no problem sure no problem yeah very strange yeah it's it's that's one of the last open prejudices

that we all accept because no one's been able to bridge that Gap except what's that dude's name that fucking is got three names will skinny guy used to be on a sitcom How I Met Your Mother Neil Patrick Harris yeah that guy's Doogie Howser yeah that guy he's openly gay and did he play a womanizer on a sitcom I think on how I make my other yeah yeah I've never watched it but but the thing about sitcoms is there like plays like those kind of sitcoms in front of an audience or horseshit you know

like it's not it's not like a movie there's for shit you know you know it's horseshit everyone knows it's horseshit anything with a laugh track very suspicious or studio audience like Happy Days like I love Henry Winkler but the Fonz yeah that's horseshit no weight is Henry Winkler today no I don't think so maybe I always assumed he was because he was so overcompensating with the Fonz I think there was a character named him in real life he is the nicest guy I've ever met yeah he's a male friend Barry now right yeah he's

he's an acting coach and Barry I haven't seen it I hear it's never seen Barry He's a fly fisherman he wrote a book on fly fishing and I think the books called I never met an idiot on the river because like there's something about fly fishing fly fishing is a very weird Pursuit because a lot of it is Catch and Release yeah which as a person who enjoys the outdoors and enjoys eating fish that I catch I'm very torn on that

activity a catch-and-release activity I know it's fun and I have done it I get it but it's weird it's weird you're sticking a hook through sizes the fish it's got to they got a how many of them died well fly-fishing very few because you're dealing with barbless hooks for the most part so it just goes into this cartilage in their mouth they don't really feel and then allegedly don't really feel I don't know if they feel it and then you know they pull it out and they're

fine but there's some Catch and Release especially with like three prong Barbed hooks where the animals definitely die you know they get they get caught in their gills and they start bleeding from their gills and you have to release them anyway because it's you know some places the regulation is Catch and Release yeah but people love doing it they find like piece like drifting a flypast this area where the fish is lying dormant and then you pull the fly and then the fish grabs it and he got them ho boy but you're tapping into this

sort of Primal reward system that you have in your DNA that makes you want to catch these fish but it gives me a reason to be out by the river in the morning normally it's morning or dusk when the Flies are landing I think a lot I've been hunting but since the last time yeah when I spoke yeah bowhunting you went bowhunting yeah yeah on Hawaii Big Island oh actually went a to trip with Kyle Kingsbury yeah Ben Greenfield and I wasn't deer

this deer trip to mallik you have a bow I do how do you how often you practice since I went hunting not much but before I went every day yeah I was I was in gym coach know I had some friends who you know helped me out and I watched some you know cam your buddy I'm here yeah I watch some videos but yeah it was it was an interesting experience so first I went on that trip with

yeah Peter Tia Bhatia and Ben Greenfield like all these podcasts human optimization guys whole thing up my buddy Kyle tear mender is Big Wave Surfer he spends a lot of time in Hawaii and he knows a lot of people there Healy Jeff Healey I think big big Surfer Dude anyway so he knew all these people and I guess Aubrey and some other those guys sort of asked him to hook them up with a trip

and so he put it all together and then at the last minute I think Aubrey couldn't go I think because you were coming down to Austin and he wanted to coordinate with you or something so they said yo Chris if you want to go it's all paid for and I'm like helicopters Hawaii yeah so did you have to practice leading up to that or where you're already shooting a bow I was already shooting because we had my Kyle and I Kyle Timmerman and I had already planned

planned a trip for like three weeks after that so I was already practicing for that which was going to be a pig hunting trip on the big island but then I went on this deer thing but mainly I want on the deer thing just because it was an opportunity to fly around in helicopters and see Molokai which is amazing right but I didn't hunt on that because I didn't honestly I didn't want to hurt anything mmm you know I wanted to feel like you were a competent enough with it oh and want to do it at all

the deer are farther away and they're much harder they're much more aware and like socking them's a lot harder and so I just basically hung out and had a good time they're so hard yeah they're so that that animal Axis deer is an animal that evolved to get away from Tigers right there the fastest thing I've ever hunted yeah far super alert I kinda did with campaigns and look I know on Lanai and John Dudley just just before you guys went

went and we were there between the time we were there and when we were there the last spring there was a hundred and fifty Hunters that went there to bow hunt one was successful really everyone else pulled out a rifle huh everyone else is like fuck this because you can't get anywhere near those goddamn things without them jumping but if you can get your stocking skills down or you can sneak up on an axis deer and kill one with a bow holy shit that's that's black belt level stuff

the dude's I were with Peter Atia he he got two or three I remember he's very very very into it yes a super super smart guy yeah he's cool and I enjoyed hanging with all those dudes but then the next you know three weeks later we went Kyle and me and Simon Rex on a few know him he's a actor slash comedian slash comedian harassed Dirt Nasty rapper yeah he's a good friend of mine anyway we went on this pig hunting

I'm trip and that was interesting that was you know I said I wanted to have the experience because I've never hunted I never killed anything and I eat meat so I felt like I have this you know responsibility to have the experience and confront it and all that and I was actually the first of our group to to kill a pig and it was strange I didn't feel sad or traumatized I felt

heightened awareness you know like but I I think I might hunt again I'm probably moving to Colorado just bought land in Colorado yeah but part sort of south-central it's a tiny little town and

yeah it's a interesting area there but anyway there's a lot of elk hunting there mmm and I'll probably do some elk hunting with local people you gonna do with a Bogan no I think I'll use a rifle yeah cuz think that's the way to go yeah not going to be completely obsessed and do it every day I'm not yeah because I don't do that yeah and also I don't you know the thing about a bow is and maybe this is what you're implying here if you're not really good the chances of you of an l

running off or a pig running off with an arrow in its ass and dying a slow horrible death is quite high if you hit him with a rifle high-powered rifle with a scope you know and you're in the middle you can still wound them but you it's your much more competent with a rifle and it's a better it's a better meet Gathering tool right but good way to talk it yeah describe it and Colorado has I think twice as many elk

as any other state real entry yeah Colorado is one of the best places in the world to elk hunt yeah so that's a good spot if you're looking and also you're taking a life you take an elk that's a lot of meat I shot this pig it was about you know it was a yearling I think it's not a lot of meat on a pig that size so yeah it's but it wasn't it was interesting are you living in this van are you know I haven't of our is I still have an apartment in LA but I'm about to give it up I think just to just be out

Nomad yeah cuz I mean I was in the van all the five months and it's like okay I'm paying rent to what like forget to leave my clothes their base right like I don't really need to be doing that now I admired that sort of nomad sense of life I had my I don't ever see myself doing it yeah but there's a romantic aspect to it that's undeniable your life's different man you have kids you know you're you've life here that's really you've built over a lot of time

you know I just got here a few years ago prisoner to that though in a certain way you're a prisoner to all your obligations There's real sure that's one of the things that go man took about this nomadic thing that you're doing yeah it's like you know I have to come here I have certain amount of podcasts after week but you're still Takin oh you don't I don't I don't I mean that's what I was thinking that we're talking about the you know closeted gay actors what what is money worth if you can't buy your freedom with it your freedom to be

who you are right as a closeted gay person right let's say what is it good for I mean that's the first thing closeted gay folks the real problem is like the feeling that you're going to be rejected if you come out I think that's entirely different than someone who gets wrapped up in jobs like my other things I could say about the jobs that I have is that I really do enjoy them like I'm enjoying this conversation I love talking to people yeah I love doing stand-up love it and I still

enjoy doing the UFC those are my three jobs and I don't do the UFC as much as I used to would you do them all if you were making a hundred grand a year total

um I mean I certainly obviously could live off a hundred grand a year yeah that's what I made a year so so the money isn't what makes them fun no it's not it's the thing itself the definitely but that's what's made the money what's made the money is my up in a think right I think it's my enjoyment of the things right that's made them interesting like one of the things about podcast and I think there is there is a parallel and stand up is that genuine enthusiasm

yasm like real legitimate enthusiasm is contagious yeah and if you're genuinely interested in talking to people genuinely curious it's interesting to listen to right and you know you do your best to get out of your own way and you do your best I do my best to not be annoying and fuck up sometimes it just know there's no if ands or buts about it here I'm a human being and I've done but you cop to it when you do which I think is another thing that's endearing and

you're really interesting case as I'm sure you know and I've watched you even since I've known you like your profile has moved much closer to mainstream American you know popular you were you were mentioned on fucking Saturday Night Live a couple weeks ago yeah we're right you know and there where there's some article about Joe right where was it in Harper's or the New Yorkers something recently I read like super mainstream but you're really interesting because you're like this man's

man but you're also vulnerable you know you're also like you admit when you fuck up like you had someone at the Twitter guy on and you're like yeah Dorsey I wasn't prepared I fucked that out and you had him back and that's cool that's and it's probably I don't know is it hard for you to maintain that kind of humility when you're getting all this pressure and opportunities and all this stuff coming at you no I don't think so no I think that's just being honest you know if you

I mean I think if I'd stopped if I fucked up and I stopped admitting that I was fucking up it would all go off the rails doesn't no way I couldn't maintain who I am I would be thinking about it all the time right you'd be like back to the closet a DVR closeted you beautiful bullshit artist must be exactly yeah you just be pretending you're cooler than you are I think part of being a human being is making mistakes it's a messy thing to be a person you know and I mean I want also big on forgiveness

and I think you have to be

because human beings are fallible and like we're saying we we vary from moment to the next and to try to hold someone to who they were six months ago or a year ago or five years ago or what they said or what they did and not accept it and hold a grudge to me that's crazy I don't like what you do you want people to do that to you or just that's what kind of life is that what kind of civilization are we creating where people hold grudges and yeah and and don't forgive

people for things of the past but you also have to be able to forgive yourself that's I struggle with that way more believe it or not that I struggle with forgiving other people right I can forgive other people pretty easy for whatever reason I've always been able to you know I've always so what's the difference I'm super self-critical and I have definitely some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder that allows me to get really good at things because I obsess you know it's probably unhealthy but I managed it but like the main

Nia that goes on in my mind I just figured out a way to put it to use right it's like okay I got this fucking engine like what do I stick and I let me stick a thing in there and I could drill a hole with that instead of just having it going where a lot of people do a lot of people don't find a focus for whatever Mania they have going on in their mind so I've found various things that's one of the reasons why I don't ever see myself not doing anything I don't have enough time that's my issue there's a lot of things that I love to do

yeah that I just don't have the time for do you feel like you're how old are you 52 do you feel like you're you're sort of figuring things out always yeah I mean like I have this sense 57 I have the sense that like

like I don't know like I'm I finally learned to dance and the party's almost over yes you know what I mean the great way to say it that's Alaric and finally figuring this shit out and I'm almost 60 well I remember when I was like 26 25 and when I first came out here I remember thinking by Point by time with 52 I'll fucking everything solved you there's arbitrary numbers

we have in our head of who you should be yeah at 50 or 60 or whatever the number is and that's your just alive man you just alive and while you're alive you better forget about all those numbers if we get everyone to thinking like now the year 2000 in the year 2000 comes like what's that going to be like wow I'm going to be so old and yeah dude it's almost 2020 and it's going to be 2020 in a couple months that's crazy

that is such a Nutty number that's so crazy yeah well that's why I love living in a van dude yeah I mean I've you know so much has happened since you and I said I don't know a year or so since we've seen each other yeah my dad's died I'm living in the van eyck this both come out like all this stuff happening but I've spent most of the time sitting by a campfire looking at the stars you know it's fucking the times that I get outside like when I elk hunt every year

and I spent time particularly in Utah in the mountains the place that we go it's just it's cleansing in a way that is so hard to describe it's so hard to describe what it's like just to be out there in the woods and being the forest and be with the wild animals and you know it's your home yeah that's what this books about I don't mean to push the conversation to the book but that's why I wrote the book like we are designed by Evolution civilized to live well now

available at bookstores near you in Amazon and all that other stuff we're designed to live in that world yes so that's why it feels so good that's why golf courses look the way they do you know even fucking you know old Executives love being out there on the grass and the water and the undulating Hills the African Savannah wow and even when it's manicured right still feels good it feels good to be connected to Nature feels good to be on a lake yeah Lakes are the best man do you'll sit on the

talk of a lake like there's a feeling of like you know you look out you see tree ever been a Quarter Lane yeah they're the summer I haven't but a friend of mine has a house there and I saw a picture of the water and like you look all the way down a hundred feet deep down you see the bottom like it's like a piece of glass yeah this is bananas yeah I didn't take a shower for about three months it smelled amazing I smoke gray because every morning I jumped in a river oh it was you know every ounce yeah oh yeah use soap or know I know even use soap

open the decade oh Jesus me smell okay how weird yeah my microbiome is working well but there's are denoted have written about that by by people that say you shouldn't you so ya know a lot of them because you're disrupting your microbiome yeah you don't stop I mean I use deodorant there's Coeur d'Alene yeah Saint points really nice to Idaho's great Idaho's gorgeous I love Boise yeah my and Montana Western Montana yeah man saying yeah look how pretty that is though goddamn that Lake

And yet when you have a boat on a lake it's like you have a car but there's no road everything is a road it's all flat yeah so you can go wherever the fuck you want something for the airplanes some amazing what you'd imagine that's even crazier you and the flying well my friend bill has well he has a helicopter license yeah and he took oh Gilbert yeah yeah yeah he took me around his helicopter that's pretty lot about that I was like that might be a cool thing to get into but that's hard he spent yeah he spent a lot of time

learn how to fly and it's expensive Mmm Yeah but a single engine airplane you can die a hundred grand you get a decent single-engine airplane you can go wherever you want my uncle has an amphibious plane so he lands on lakes wow yeah and he used to conceal and on ground to yeah so that's amphibious so it has wheels and floats but did you have to switch things up or yeah so if you just change out the no no you just push a button the wheels retract our own oh shit yeah he forgot what some flipped it

so you don't want to forget how many people fly drunk

yeah I bet they do yeah right well if the weather is good it wasn't an illegal Patrick Swayze thing like before he kicked the bucket we sit we laughing about what are you laughing at something huh Harrison Ford that's right was he drives It Forward might have been might have been might have been or maybe the old dude old dudes look drunk all the time and babies yeah but that is that's that's a great way to

Chief privacy to write like you're if you're a guy like Harrison Ford I mean that guy must be hard for that guy to go anywhere yeah right it's probably real hard for him to go to a regular airport yeah yeah I've got the perfect amount of Fame as thinking about this today on the airplane flying down from Portland I'm like I was in the front row so I had extra like legroom but I wasn't in business class that's where I am in Fame I want to stay right there I got a little extra egg right maybe normal stretch your legs out but some people recognize me but they all

like me if you don't like me you don't know who the hell I am that's nice yeah so you're at a different level there are people who recognize you her like a fuck I guide you you meet nothing I mean you get Rosalie love insurance people nice yeah even you know it's people even people that don't like you they don't really know you all right if they knew you like some image they have nice if you know me you meet me I guarantee we're probably going to get along yeah and if we don't I'm going to work hard to make it undone not uncomfortable yeah you know it's just the thing

about people liking people not liking people a lot of it is this severely limited way of communicating especially when it's one way right if you're putting out a podcast or you're putting out books and they're reading your shit but they don't get to interact at all that builds resentment there's there's a lot of weird resentment that people develop when they listen to you right and they don't get to interact like say especially someone like me who's always talking shit right I'm all hot I talk shit for a living basically and I'm

always giving my opinions and some people have a profit maybe even a strong point that I probably even agree with them and they don't get to say anything so they're sitting in homeless and like fuck this guy I'm tired of his bull yeah you occupy space in their lives yes and but they don't they don't get drove them something yes yes and that makes sense I mean they're make sense yeah yeah crude way of communicating yeah he's one way methods of communication are very crude yeah yeah I mean I was thinking my buddy Simon and I were

in a in a restaurant in Venice and the woman recognized me and like oh I love your podcast and I done gave me your number and I was like yeah I'll give her a call sometimes I was like dude I would never do that you never never you know interact with your fans the you know and then I was like no buts I mean you don't get it she actually knows me like in Simon's case like he was in Scary Movie 3 4 5 he was you know he he plays these characters so when people are like yo Simon like they

I don't know him right they he's this the face they recognize but they don't know the dude right so it's a different kind of thing I really like the van trips what are the events apology thing I'll say okay I'm going to be in the you know Boise At This Beer Pub Thursday at 8 and people show up fifty hundred people show up really oh yeah but it's mainly so they can meet each other so when you do this do you do live shows now do live shows I've never done a live show I've done like

means a couple times have you know we've done we did the was a couple years ago we did the keynote at the float conference in Portland that's a Larry good audience that oh yeah that's a tuned in group of people right but I don't do the shows I just he noted a float conference with Duncan yeah it was great that sounds perfect yeah that's hilarious but it's really just to build community that's what I want to do I want them to meet each other

because they're all beautiful weirdos right right now and flee yeah they are I've never met anyone through the podcast that I didn't really actually like what kind of numbers do you get like what kind of downloads how many episodes telling you know it's hard to know but probably 50,000 and episode or something like that that's perfect yeah that's a good number fifty and a hundred like you know when you and Duncan were on when we're doing this room parade thing it would you know P cuz you guys do you

use advertising and I didn't for five years it was a listener-supported only yeah and then this friend of mine who has this company mud water he was sort of launching that and he was like dude I want to I want to advertise on your podcasting like yeah I love you buddy but I don't yeah yeah I don't do that and then he sent me an email that email chain where he was negotiating with another

podcast that has roughly the same audience numbers as mine and I was like really I'm leaving that much on the table fuck so I started at this point I only do ads for companies that I really like and that I use their stuff so I don't do you know I don't have a broker or any of that stuff yeah I think the subscription model like when people are paying like a pay wall the problem is the growth is so limited

so then you could either just do it for free and put it out there and maybe just sell books or sell t-shirts t-shirts or you know in my case tickets to shows that would work right I'm gonna be in Cleveland this weekend and Detroit nicely jump what's it like to play to Troy's Detroit Detroit I love Detroit people they're fun people they're having their yeah Detroit is not necessarily coming back to where it used to be it's about like what is it come back right you know never going to be an auto

when you get back in shape and you're 70 guess what you never going to be who you were when you were 20 right you know it's not never going to be what it was I mean it was the richest city in America at one point in time right you know during the peak of automobile production I believe it was the rich or one of the richest cities in America and it's a far cry from that now and it's strange when you drive through the town he sees boarded-up buildings and factories and other broken windows and just you could buy a house like a hundred bucks like it's weird it's weird but then

also a lot of like craft restaurants in these businesses that are building up and these hippies that have kind of moved in and you know they're kind of you know making stuff there and there's a lot of cool shit sheep enough to get in and do stuff yeah yeah which is you know if you're a young person growing up there you like you can make something happen and with the internet the your ability to establish a business and your ability to you know to actually get something off the ground so much

different than it ever has been before yeah and and people love a good comeback story so Detroit like a bunch of Detroit made things could be exciting for people like yeah like that to try my pie that yes Detroit made you know as a company called Shinola you ever heard of the watches really nice watches American-made watches they make a bunch of other stuff too like bags leather goods things along those lines but one of the things they proudly say is made in Detroit and it is they make cool shit you know so it's there's something to that

you know but they're the place I'm working out is the Fox Theater and it's just like really fucking cool old theater and what's interesting there's columns and it was back when people used to be able to smoke they smoked in there so much that all the columns are like they have that RNG nicotine sort of tint them but one of the columns was replaced so this one column is like clear and smooth and clean and the other ones like fucking orangey like you

could it seems like go up to with a butter knife and just scrape the nicotine off of them you know but to pop eautiful old building that was made way way way back in the day and they said that when it was first made it was one of the only buildings in Detroit that had air conditioning so people would go to see movies there they would pay to see movies just as they could fall asleep it go in there and just the cool air and they'd fall asleep during the summer because you know people just be sweltering yeah In the Heat of the summer I've done that in Bangkok yeah just go

to a cinema just to get out of the heat nice I fuckin love Thailand man yeah I really really enjoyed Thailand when I went recently yeah last summer it's like people are so nice Foods great amazing it's the one country I'm comfortable recommending to just about anyone yeah because the the sort of Confluence of convenience and safety and ease and it's still exotic and really interesting and very foreign you know I wouldn't recommend India to everyone or

Asia but Thailand is like whatever your tolerance is you'll find something there that works for you yeah I know a lot of Fighters who have gone there for camps for training camps and wound up either moving there are starting camps there or starting Jim's there they just loved it so much I feel like part of their home yeah I've been there a lot probably ten times over the years yeah it's real cheap too yeah in terms of like food eating yeah lodging to best food in the world yeah first yeah

it's good I love spicy food so it means it's excellent and it's balanced it's interesting it's not just like Blast Your Face Off spices yeah really nice I did you go to Laos at all no that's no that's an interesting place yeah I'm good yeah yeah Vietnam is amazing you know Bourdain's one of his favorite yeah he loved it I know I know I was there for three months in Vietnam I didn't dig it that much there's some really

Ali beautiful places but I found I was traveling with Castle de my wife who's dark-skinned and there's a lot of racism she got harassed a lot because everyone assumed that she was a local and with me makes her prostitute and dark skin makes her low class so there was a lot of she got a dude punched her she was I punch ya

kid ran up we were on a motorbike in this rice paddies and this kid just ran up and punched her in the back and then ran off wow yeah young kid like 15 or so yeah it was pretty heavy she got she got like physically accosted three times in Vietnam how long were you there three months fuck yeah yeah so I didn't dig Vietnam that much then we went we got to Laos and it was and there was like I mean it's a tough country they've had

dad I mean shit storm been going on there since the 40s you know or even before that the French occupation and all that so I know I'm not blaming anyone it's not a big part of the heroin trade Laos as well it was during the Vietnam war yeah now I think heroines more coming out of Afghanistan yeah and and Mexico you know they've got the cartels you see the fucking shit that's going down yeah there's the where the government and the armies of

back down and let the cartel run everything yeah well they took Chapo El Chapo son back right yes how chains I mean how is that going to play out yeah yeah it's interesting I'm going to Mexico in a couple of months but I'm going to different part of this where you going chapas way down south on the border with Guatemala there's the I really love it down there there's a town called San Cristobal De Las Casas lets up in the Ponderosa Pines

I made four thousand feet it's beautiful Indian Villages around and they come down on Market day and I'm going to go down there and work on another book what do you when you right now you know it's kind of Under Wraps because I talked about this book way too much and it slowed me down so about Neil Young's bed can we cut that out get a guy in trouble for saying that you were

first I was on the show how fucked up it was at the beginning what did we are you even aware of that what happened so the first time I came on the show I didn't know you write and I didn't know anything about you because I was living in Spain and Duncan I done Duncan shows the first time I'd done a I didn't know what a podcast was I came to LA to visit my parents I had this email from Duncan I'm a comedian you want to do a podcast I'm like sure never met a comedian don't know what a podcast is so I did it we had a good time and after he's like

you know I'd love to introduce you to my friend Joe Rogan I think you guys would get along and you could do his podcast I never heard of Joe Rogan right and no insult intended or I just I lived in Spain I didn't ever watch Fear Factor I'd your whole thing was happening over here I didn't know about it and then I went back to Spain I was like okay Duncan's friend Joe does this podcast it is living room the way Duncan does I assumed right and I went back to span and I was talking to my buddy voodoo's a tattoo artist

just and he's like so how was La has like a cool I did a podcast with this comedian it was really fun and interesting and he's like I you should do Joe Rogan's podcast I'm like dude how do you know Duncan's friend Joe Wright is this whole weird things like no dude Joe Rogan's boo so I tried to tell you that story the first time I came and the point of the story is I'm an idiot I don't know what's going on right I'm oblivious but we got to the point where I said I didn't know you and you were like so would you do gu

Google me and I was like well not really and then and then we had to do a sound check or you had to do an ad or something and it got the story got interrupted and I felt like you thought I was trying to dis you or something I definitely didn't yeah well I was paranoid then you lit up a joint and you pass the joint around neue and I'm like fuck if I don't hit this joint that I'm confirmed asshole here so I hit the joint even though I hadn't smoked any weed and month you dude

and it was this like California weed I'm holding literally I remember I'm holding the bottom of my chair trying not to fall out of the chair and and we start talking and I'm telling the story about a dude that I had met on an airplane and he was super into sex at dawn and then we were gonna do a movie together and whatever and then his wife like took the book away from him yeah remember yeah yeah and and that I was just like fuck I

I shouldn't have told that story that you know this this whole I'm fucking everything up and I said to you can we just because we're like five minutes in at this point and I was like Joe can we just like cut this and start over and you looked at me he said is live bitch you don't remember any of that I do now oh yeah I do now oh man I knew the guy yeah yeah exactly and you were like to say his name and then I said his debut like that he's a

mine are like oh shit I should have said his name and the whole thing yeah and then I left kiss older was here in the studio and we left we got in the car and I said man was that as awkward as I felt and she's like that's the worst I've ever seen you you were Great establish a great friendship yeah yeah no issues I don't know maybe you enjoyed watching me suffer I don't know I do enjoy watching people get too high

it's not a suffer thing it's like I've been there it's a commiseration thing I think I one of the things about these sober October things is you realize like there's so many things that are so much easier when you're not high yeah you know it's almost like you handicap Yourself by getting baked like yeah I was talking to Red Band Brian Red Band about this like we were talking about like how the early days of podcast we would get obliterated before we do the podcast

I asked like 4 years like up until like maybe two thousand thirteen or fourteen like we would had a volcano you know what L is the those vaporizers rise it fills up this bag and you take these big deep hits off this THC vapor and then as soon as you put the bag down and we'll okay let's get going let's start the podcast and be like oh my god what have we done and it was this feeling every time we did the podcast was oh my god what have we done and you'd be in the middle of saying something

nothing and as you're saying like what am I talking about I don't even know what I'm talking about and then you would Psychonauts not that like you would screw things up you get scrambled in your head when there's no pot at all that never happens like you mean you might make mistakes but you know what you're talking about while you're talking about it right like when you're really really high like that there's a lot of times where you're talking about stuff will you literally don't know exactly what you're talking about yeah it's like that split personality thing we were talking about it really

it has so many Pros but it's got some cons like everything in life like like love and and good things and bad things and food and sleep there's pros and cons and then the cons become very evident when you're not doing it you know I still think every time I do these sober October things I always think well I'm going to cut back I'm going to cut back on some weight and I think I did last year like after October I was like I am not going to do it as much as I used to do it do you drink yeah a little

bit like wine beer I love wine with meals yeah if I have a nice meal I love a glass of red wine yeah I like a cold beer and a hot day love that it yeah yeah yeah I love that yeah I lived in do you know I lived in Spain 25 years or something like over there wine is like water yeah you have wine with breakfast it's really oh yeah yeah it's just part of life it's like olive oil it's on everything that's funny because that's just saw a restaurant was at a restaurant I was using the Wrath of the bathroom and they

sign up that said a meal without wine is called breakfast hmm so that's Italian yeah in Spain they like fuck it yeah I mean not everyone's doing it but workers like you see workers in a bar you know they have their sandwiches and a glass of wine yeah some coffee with a little Bailey's in it nothing wrong with that there's nothing wrong with if you can handle it well you know what I got to Spain I remember talking to people like wow example calls

we're and it's not like liquor licenses here like every Cafe serving wine and beer and whatever he just sell it's everywhere yeah and kids are there and it's just you know it's not set aside that's right and the Spanish guy said to me you know in Spain we have many alcoholics but no drunks and it's true like you don't see people puking in the street you know rage and drunken lunatics like you know in the u.s. what about like sports events like soccer games

they sell beer full strength beer I don't remember if they sell wine and yeah I mean Barcelona is a special place I don't know what it's like in Madrid I never went to a soccer game in Madrid but Barcelona the catalans are sort of dry very self-contained people so you know there's no raging and right now there's rioting going on but that's a political thing what are the riding over

Catalan Independence yeah then something happened today in Hong Kong I don't know some something I've been out of the loose at Hong Kong the Hong Kong protests have been going on for so long yeah it's months and months and months it's like intense and chilly now to in Santiago Chile people are rioting yeah shit's getting interesting heating up yeah it's it's a strange time to be alive really is across the board yeah I feel like we're at an

inflection point what's going on Hong Kong fries murder suspect to whose case led to protests interesting well we're trying to trying to take the air out of it yeah I feel you ever read Joseph Campbell yeah so the the hero with a thousand faces is observation that societies all over the world have basically the same origin myth which is the Odyssey rights the person goes out and has all these challenges and faces their fears and

learns all the stuff and then returns home with the knowledge that they've gained and they realize that what they were looking for all the time is actually home right I feel like as a species we're at the point in that Journey where we're turning toward home

that's my that sort of the under overriding Narrative of this book that what we're where we are now is we've learned enough that we can go back to or go toward a way of living that replicates in important ways where we came from so you're doing it you're hunting you're spending time in nature you know we're looking at different ways of raising kids we're looking at paleo

diet fasting controlling the frequency of the light that comes into our eyes at night and they're all these there's this awareness that the way forward requires an understanding of where we came from so I kind of feel when I'm having a good day I feel like we're at this point now this crisis point where these institutions Central institutions of Western Civilization are collapsing around us you know they're just government Wall Street religion

Saul just like being exposed as you know incompetent and useless and in many cases and but we've learned these really interesting things like birth control and passive energy and all the different ways of living on the earth without destroying it and so the sort of metaphor I use in the book is that we're going to live in zoos right but do we want to live in the Calcutta zoo or the San Diego Zoo and I

I feel like you know what we're seeing now is we're clearly in a moment of massive Global change and I hope that what the opportunity will that's being presented is to redesign human existence in a way that's more in accordance with our nature hmm that makes sense yeah that's I'm struggling to be optimistic well I'm glad I'm optimistic to I just yeah I always wonder if the numbers are just unmanageable well

it's why I mentioned birth control yeah right like we know how to reduce global population but people want babies they but why do they want baby cuz it what's the incentive for women I think there's a biological need there's a feeling that something not all women but many women have yeah where they have that biological clock it's telling them to have a baby when they have a baby I mean you've seen women that have children it's it's the most intense bonding the most intense release of oxytocin

the most intense love and feeling of connection with a another living creature that I've ever experienced that I could ever explain to someone and it's a natural part of being a human being it also changes who you are as a person when you are responsible for these little people and then you have love for these little people like Dave Chappelle said to me once something that really resonated he said not only has it changed

and how much I loved it changed my capacity for love and that that resonated I was like that's what it is like a change is how much you changed how I feel about other people and you know the the experience for a man is entirely different than it is for a woman because the woman literally creates the being in her body yes right a baby is growing inside a woman's body and she gives birth to it with a man he you

do what you always do you fucker you know and but now you have a baby and it's undeniable that you love the baby you love your child but you did not have the experience of having it grow inside your body which I think is a connection that's no man is ever going to understand yeah you never going to just I don't think it's possible to understand what a woman experiences when she has a baby growing inside of her body but then what had changed for me which was a

a big one was it made me look at people instead of looking at them like static beings you see the whole thing yeah I looked at them as like oh that was a baby yeah Christopher Ryan used to be a baby was cute too I bet you were adorable yeah and now here you are a grown-ass man yeah I mean this is yeah this is something that's missing in our experience when we don't we're not there and we don't see that little person become a big person yeah you know that that's what that's missing

I feel like I've gained you know this part of what I was referring to earlier where I said like you know we're learning to dance and the party's almost over I feel I don't have kids I've been around kids but I feel like when I was in my twenties let's say I sort of worked this out recently in relationships that I think I think there are three things there's attraction there's compatibility and there's love and I look at a lot of my relationships

with women they had two of those mmm always love ya sometimes the sex was great and sometimes the compatibility was great and very rarely all three of those but I used to think love was a really limited scarce experience in life and the older I get the more I feel like no love is I could love anybody if I spent enough time with them and got to know them I'd feel love for them right you know that's not hard to find it

seems it's everywhere when I was young I thought it was really hard to find well for some people it is you know some people it is it's hard to find someone who loves him and some people are burdened down like you're you're very free in the sense that because you have this unusual way of making money and you have you don't have a lot of needs you don't need a lot of material things some people are very burdened by these needs you know and they're not free and they're confined to a job and it's very difficult for them

to meet anybody right and then they're also stressed out all the time because a bills and horseshit and then work politics and work Dynamics and dealing with the fucking environment of the office yeah and you got a boss that's an asshole who's like you know you have board meetings and shit and everybody's gotta sit there and get cancer well there's an asshole talks you know I feel it sitting in a board table and some guys what we got to do with this company you know write the Matrix I need you

you to be here after work I need you here 9 to 5 I want to see real commitment I want to you know what I'm one of them lammle 7 yeah when I'm leaving at 7:00 I want to see you still here working yeah like what ya know and then it's hard to meet somebody it's hard to find love ya okay you're certainly you're right about that I didn't really mean in a dating sense so much as just like compassion since okay you know what I mean but that everybody's lovable sure you know like one of the things that I love doing it

podcast is meeting somebody who's never told their story before and never even thought of their life in terms of a narrative and in the course of the podcast having them realize how fucking interesting they are and how interesting their life is but I've had people like break into tears and stuff you know because they've never thought like no one's ever asked right you know everybody's interesting everybody's got some kind of bizarre story to tell

L often they don't know it you know and I feel the same way like everybody's lovable everybody I'm not talking about romantic I know she's saying yeah just like yeah and and you reminded me of when you're talking about seeing the full person's life sometimes I've looked at like women that I was with who you know 35 years old and idealistic see the old lady in them and be moved by that you know like you're going to be a beautiful old lady I'll be dead weirdo yes see that I might

I gotta get out of here before she becomes an old lady oh I see menopause coming get me out of here I want anybody angry at me for shit I didn't even do it yeah no I know what you're saying I know it just happened and I mean everybody's lovable to somebody right I mean unless you're a fucking psychopath I had I had another thing I put on my list here I wanted to mention almost as a public service sleep apnea hmm I have sleep apnea and I have you know about this yeah do you snore I have a mouthpiece

you have the the CPAP machine oh no you do the jaw thing no no it's different it holds my tongue down dry tongue from sliding back real world difference changed everything that's that's why I wanted to mention I like anybody who's got like I was not breathing for 20 seconds at a time and yeah this this woman I was sleeping with like actually counted you know and she's like dude like you're choking you're suffocating yeah so I went and got a test it's super easy

take it home and hook this thing in your finger and all that and they told me I think it was like 25 episodes per hour is considered severe I had 74 every minute I was suffocating to the point where I sort of woke up and like my throat tissue you know the muscles can track so you can breathe again so you're like always at the surface I got one of those machines dude I'm like sleeping again I'm Dreaming it's fantastic

now do you have a hard time put that putting that thing on your mouth and now it's no problem it's like it's like scuba diving you got a regulator you know I mean the one I you have the full face one that goes over your nose and your mouth if you tend to breathe through your mouth or they have them at just go over your nose which one do you have I have both I started because I used the nose one and then I was breathing through my mouth and that's all weird so then I got the big one but after a month with that now I just use the nose one now that pumps

are right what it does is it creates air pressure but just very slight what it's adjustable it adjusts based on your reaction to it and so when you are when you're breathing the air pressure keeps the passages open so it can be anatomical it can be your tongue falling back it I have to do this for me yeah so it keeps the the passage open it's just a slight pressure and

it's really nice because you take a it's like you take a deep breath and it fills your lungs because there's just that little extra push and it's totally quiet like there's all this stigma around it like people think it's really like gross or loud or whatever it's not that much the new machines are great and have a humidifier in them so you can adjust the do you how do you power it up when you're camping and stuff well I've got electrical system in the van and I also have a backup battery a little lithium

that's all you need to power the whole night like that yeah if you don't use the humidifier if you use the humidifier it sucks up more because it's a heating thing is humidifier help yeah it's great because you can adjust it you know like you're in La we're in a desert it's dry so you can turn it up if you're you know I was in Seattle it turn it off doesn't matter so it's just change the way you feel I feel so much better I'm like sleeping through the night I dream again yeah I didn't I mean I feel kind of

of Evangelical about it because you know I know a lot of people have this men and women and there's this weird kind of Shame around it and I'm just trying to be like everything to be shameful yeah fuck it man sleep you gotta sleep it's really important it makes everything better you're like 50 percent more likely to have car accidents if you have sleep oh yeah it'll fuck up your job it'll fight you won't get hard-ons it'll like ruin everything some people it's really bad to and it goes on for years

as in years and years they don't even know about I was on a plane once and there was a guy behind me and I would hear yeah I turned around and I was like oh this poor bastard who's a big guy like very overweight and I mean I was watching this guy lying there with his mouth open like the suffix for a long time and then finally he would jostle and catch some air and he woke up and I said hey man and I said do you know you have sleep apnea he's like what do you mean

and I said okay I might let me tell you what's going on and I showed him my mouthpiece I don't like I have this thing that I have to sleep with because of the long flight were on and I said you gotta go to a doctor get that checked out and he goes okay thanks I go no really yeah you gotta go to a doctor I go this is gonna it'll change your life heart disease like a lot of bad shit can hat also affects people's dietary choices because when you're exhausted like that I know how I am like last night I was tired I came home from The Improv

like one o'clock in the morning I should not have eaten but I was like fuck it and I made a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for one am I definitely shouldn't have had that there's an El Camino and jalapenos Manuel I just felt like peanut butter and jelly ya gotta do it bad choice but when you're tired you make bad choices right Matt make bad dietary choices it's a very very common yeah well people are exhausted and overworked and I think that has to apply to people with sleep apnea yeah when you're always exhausted

stood like throughout the day you're just sucking down coffee and trying to stay awake yeah yeah a dry my dad had it for sure and he never had it treated and yeah maybe that's another reason that I'm sort of Evangelical about it because it's like it's so easy so many of the things that mess up our lives are really hard to address like you know the Litany of things you were talking about board meetings and all that but you know if you can get a good night's sleep for you know a visit to a doctor

and I mean this thing cost 800 bucks for this machine I have yeah changes your whole life your whole life solves the problem you know like that's pretty cool pretty fucking cool some people have a problem with their CPAP machines but maybe it's just the kind they use Joey Diaz changed his life hmm he started using that thing he brings it out guys got a portable unit it brings them on planes yeah brings it everywhere yeah yeah it's great I mean I wish every problem were that easy to solve hmm yeah right no kidding yeah

what else you got there my list bunch of notes of anthropology of the the motherfucker Awards I'd what's that you know about that so my buddy oh the trial and I did it last year we had a so the idea is we're hiking one day in Topanga and we're talking about how he's an environmental activist as well as a big wave surfer Kyle Turman show he's a podcast as well but it has a pocket everybody's got a podcast he's a really good guy he's like one of these he's I think he's 20

he's like super Earnest and he's the kind of guy like you're having a conversation and you mentioned a book and a week later he's like hey I read that book you mentioned it's really good it's like all right all young people should be like you you know yeah he's really like tuna Mart yeah and serious about stuff anyway we were talking about how hard it is to get people to pay attention to environmental issues because it's such a downer you know and I was like man I know all these

medians would be cool if we could find a way to get comedy into the environmental thing and we came up with this idea where we flip everything upside down and we say we have an award ceremony to honor the companies that are doing the most to fuck mother earth and the awards are accepted on behalf of the companies by comedians so we did it last year and it was fucking wild he was so great so the presenters were people like Matt Taibbi

maybe for Rolling Stone and the guy who was the founder of Greenpeace and different environmental people and sort of political people and accepting on behalf of his people like Leo flowers and if you know him Jake Johansson sure Moshe Kasher and Natasha Leggero did this incredible bit where they they were incestuous brother sister couple yeah yeah yeah I think they represented Chase Bank yeah

Brendon Walsh he's fantastic it looks like Dennis Miller there hey does yeah so it was great and we were Tuxedos and we did this whole way to do that at a theater in America theater would would ya yeah it was great and it was it's funded by various people but the nail Newman Foundation Paul Newman's daughter how cool she's a big supporter when you do it again December 3rd cool yeah it's great same place

same place if you're free come except in a won't let me find out I think I'm out of town yeah that's the thing we're lining up like Bryan Callen beautiful yeah he's he wants to do it but it's a lot of working together tonight oh good we worked in where the last night dinner with him a week ago we did two shows last night we're doing two shows tonight he's I like that guy La of them the death is one of my favorite people yeah and he's also real down-to-earth he's a real do please people often ask me

me like I guess I'm like a conduit to people like you and Brian and it's like what do they like in real life that they're they're like they seem to be I don't think you do as many podcasts he does or as many as I do and be somebody else right I don't think too much work holding up the facade I don't think it would work yeah I don't think you could hold up a facade that that long yeah

I don't I mean again everybody varies you very who you are dependent upon the day in the stresses and the inferences and life but I don't know anybody who's full of shit like I don't know anybody who's doing a podcast he's got like a totally different Persona right I bet a lot of those self-help fellas probably they're rocking that that's a that's a full of shit industry yeah you know it's like it's one of those this like there's people that are real self help people that are

doing real work and they're really they really are committed to it and they love it and they really love helping people and then there's other people that find that as like an itch it's a way to get in so a little greased path yeah helps you like

yeah slip on in yeah yeah yeah and it's sometimes it's hard to tell who's who in that were yeah you know that's a weird world it's one of the weirdest Worlds the world of constant motivation we are constantly motivating people and yeah and trying to find some new way to say things already said a thousand times and what's it all boiled down to you know it all boils down to the same simple shit again and again it does variance over possessions forgive yourself and others love yourself and others but

times they can say something that resonates sometimes some people can say something that resonates but those people have to they have to be there has to be something unique about them like their life experiences they have to have accomplished something they have to there's they have to be there has to be some actual meat behind their words and there's a lot of people that are doing it that are just doing it because they're they're not really doing anything else yeah they just do that that's very strange it's very strange because they've tapped into this need

this feeling that people have where they need to be motivated and they need you know they need someone to say positive spiritual things that resonate with them so these people have sort of found that as a way to become popular or famous or instafamous or whatever you know yeah it's like buying a membership to a gym and then never going you know yeah we're what I do sometimes like I love to buy camping gear yeah I don't really can't very much though yeah

but I love camping gear man like high quality tents and shacks and go to Ariana have a grand plan yeah yeah I need steaks I need those little fucking aluminum Stakes if the tents into the dirt dude I'm click yeah the the the spiral one oh yeah really good in Santa's well I got that I got a special Hammer to put them in and then it's got holes that you like hook and pull them up yeah yeah I've used it maybe twice in five years you're lucky yeah

bought one of them fucking what are those things called this little stoves the little propane stoves thing yeah that's on top of it never used it yeah sitting in my I was like I'm going to use this on our next trip but when you know when civilization collapses you got that in the garage let's realization collapses you really want flint and steel and you want some Tinder I mean you can't count on any of that shit because you don't know how to make a lighter so you can't count on leiter's you got to be able to make a fire without

later also when civilization ends you're not going to want to live yeah yeah that's the thing it's just too hard is no way to really prepare for it and I know it's too hard yeah you know to to live I mean I guess if that's all you've ever known if all you've ever known was living in incredibly primitive way and hunting and Gathering you'd be fine with it well hunting and Gathering is easy for hunter-gatherers if you live in a fertile place even if you don't in the Kalahari

he desert cooking San people work roughly 20 hours a week and with we're calling work is hunting and Gathering what do they hunting I guess there are some sorts of antelope rabbits

rats Desert Rat I don't know I haven't spent much time in the Kalahari Desert vegan a rat's there's a fucking crazy article about these monkeys that are eating rats macaque macaque I said macaque monkeys there look at this yeah cock killer rat eating monkey stun scientist and Malaysia II saw that yesterday and I was going to Tweet it but I was like all right I've tweeted too many fucking crazy things today whatever I read

of the really Bonkers that I tweet it but that one like I'm saving this one for tomorrow but look at the size of that goddamn rat and these monkeys are ferocious predators and they thought of these monkeys is being primarily fruit eaters but no they they really favored eating rats and it's holding this goddamn rat down and eating it headfirst the hell of an image fuckin'-a right yeah well you ever been to something yes like a like a sandwich

look at his like the distant look in his eyes like a rat head you ever been in a place with wild monkeys yes yeah Costa Rica the it was weird we were worried so that come right up to the yeah we were staying at this Resort and we one of my kids wanted to feed the monkey and Oreo and my wife is like oh we probably shouldn't it's not good for him

and then I said this is given one fucking Oreo who cares I bet he's already had an Oreo before I forget what the conversation was anyway the monkey takes the Oreo opens it and eats the white frosting I was like that little motherfuckers Delight Oreos he knew exactly what you do he turned it just like everybody does and start scraping off the frosting and looking right at you yeah it was there was different kinds of monkeys to there was a howler monkeys and then those other men there was big monkeys and little monkeys

that's of crazy Place Costa Rica's Wildman crocodiles and shit that was another interesting place of visited the crocodiles are a trip and because we were in a boat and we went on this like sort of tour of this river system and you go on a tour of the river system watching this fucking 15-foot crocodile slide into the water from the bank like fuck and you see the crocodile slides all over the bank's because these Rivers is just filled with crocodiles and so anytime I kid would come anywhere close to the

railing of the bottom like hey let's stay over here let's stay in the middle of the fuck away from the monsters I met this dude long time ago I don't remember where I was but we're sitting around a fire talking about like bizarre experiences we'd had traveling whatever he was from I think New Hampshire and he had a thing like you and Marshall go running every morning he had a thing where he and his dog would go down to the lake and take a swim every every day at dusk after when he got home from work

take the dog for a swim as a black lab I think and

and he went to visit his brother in Florida hey drove down there and his brother was out and when he arrived and it was around dusk and he's like hey let's go first one there's a lake and he jumps in the water with his dog and they're swimming across the lake and hear it it's quiet right and here's this problem

and he's like well I was that it's a weird sound and then he realizes I'm in fucking Florida I'm not in New Hampshire there are alligators here what the fuck am I doing so he turns around and starts swimming back and he's swimming along trying not to panic and the fucking dog goes aren't dogs gone or Croc came up and

took his dog never saw the dog again wow what I could have been him too yeah one of my favorite alligator stories from Florida's there was a high-speed chase got a stolen car and he gets to abridge the cops chasing them guy jumps out of the car jumps off the bridge gets eaten immediately by an alligator literally landed in front of the alligator three alligator snap the only people that often but they definitely will

that's not what I do well the crocodiles ox and alligators are less aggressive than crocodiles and there are crocodiles in Florida but they're much less frequent what's the difference American alligators are smaller animal they have a longer pointy or snout and they have more exposed teeth an alligator has a blunt more rounded face and they they get much larger than American crocodiles American crocodiles are pretty small

All American alligators get pretty fucking big so in Africa do they have Crocs and elegant no Africa is just crocodile just cry yeah much much much they're huge of crocodiles to have Nile crocodile right you see him take those water buffalo and stuff terrifying saltwater crocodiles I thought I'd seen video what you said so I Googled it four different times at least the last couple of years this happened one guy lost his arm two people died the Florida thing getting chased by the cops and ended up getting eaten by now

one time that's fucking Florida man Florida man is so wacky that is the place where all the refugees is in the outcasts they all go to Florida man yeah yeah more than once I'm sure it makes sense we jump in the water man you've risk in it like they don't just because alligators don't eat people as often as crocodiles doing Africa it doesn't mean that they wouldn't they don't have a rule book right I go that's a person shouldn't eat them they don't give a fuck if you're a dog

dog or a person or a kid it was a an alligator ate a baby at Disney World oh I remember that yeah three years ago yeah yeah fucking two-year-old baby playing by the water the alligator just slides up on the bank snatch pulls it right under fuck that fuck that day yeah when I lived in Florida when I was a kid we lived in Gainesville and there was alligators everywhere and I remember one of them snatch them

his dog knows our true Jesus Christ I didn't know they'd kill people's dogs he would see them floating around and they seem so innocuous because they almost always still yeah they very rarely moved there was signs they didn't want you to feed them marshmallows people would throw marshmallows in the alligator to eat marshmallows

and they just don't want you don't because they slow the marshmallows yeah I guess yeah and they would just chew them up and swallow them so people would throw marshmallows at the alligators just to see it but that was back when alligators were endangered this is in the late 70s and they're not endangered anymore in fact they you could kill as many of like you can get it commercial hunting tag for 500 alligators I watched that on that Swamp People show Mercy

it is a show about alligator killers they just kill an alligator's because you know that remark the last Indians to be pacified I hate that phrase then the United States the last tribe to finally give up was the seminal in the Everglades yeah like that after the Apaches and the Sioux and all that yeah because man every time we try weird life yeah fart live in the Everglades the Everglades are another thing that human beings ruined because a white

trash people in Florida because releasing pythons there's literally nothing left alive in the Everglades all the deer missing all the raccoons are missing all the all the marsh hairs gone everything's missing like the scientists and biologists have done these surveys of Wildlife and the difference between like 1980 and 2019 is so unbelievably Stark yeah it's so crazy and it's all those fucking

dorks that want to keep pets and then they release them they release them out there in the wild yeah yeah pythons but it's not just the Everglades right it's I read recently like 30% of all the birds in North America are gone well that's in the last that's house 10 years a lot of that's how scary yeah have you ever seen the numbers how many house cats how many birds house cats kill billions billions in Justin United States but they're cute adorable fuck

fucking the billions though Killers billions of birds like you see like scientists were baffled when they did the actual survey and they found the real numbers they like this can't be real this can't be right billions you have a cat right yeah way to go you had a whole bit in your step yeah camera yeah yeah I like cats I love cats yeah they're they're interesting creatures I had three of them in Spain as fun like they had their own little world you know yeah three of them did what they wanted to do the only bummer is

litter boxes yeah I had him outside gotta have them outside the house in my neighborhood you cannot yeah coyotes ya know Kyle Barcelona owls and coyotes yeah those owls are motherfucker they'll snatch him up just as quick as anything yeah we have big owls out here so if you were going to die from an animal attack what animal would you like to die from you'd like a big cat because they would kill you before they eat you you know yeah a bear

we'll just eat you yeah black bear Ali grizzly bears sometimes you too well they'll fuck you up and anyway this is what I was told when I was in Alaska that you play dead with a Grizzly but never with a black well because some Grizzlies that if they think you're dead they'll kick some dust on you and come back a week later when you're sure Mountain they're like French people they what they wanted to stink you know like old cheese that's not totally true it depends on how hungry they are and whether or not their own

but you are more likely to be attacked by a black bear for predation right friend of mine was attacked recently really yeah he had a he had to shoot a black bear yeah yeah he was he tried to chase it off and he stumbled upon there was a smell he's a Rancher he stumbled upon this smell and the smell was a dead cow and this black bear had been eating this dead cow and he tried to chase the black bear off and the black bear decide to try to go after him and had to wind up

shooting it he had a rifle or pistol I think is a pistol but it was it wouldn't stop it wouldn't leave me alone just trying to scare get the fuck out of here can't go throwing waving his arms yeah wolfed out them then it turned around and came out on from another Direction and then it literally ran up within like 20 feet of them he's like okay we're done here that happened to me with a monkey once really yeah shoot the monkey I didn't know did you feed him a rat I this was in Malaysia I was in a botanical gardens in Penang Malaysia

you actually told this book the story at the beginning of sex at dawn I was with my girlfriend at the time and like your situation in Costa Rica she wanted to give some peanuts to these monkeys these guys at the entrance were selling little bags of peanuts and so she there was this baby monkey hanging by his tail over the trail where we were and she pulled out this bag of peanuts and like you know opened it and that attracted all this attention from other

monkeys and while she was handing a peanut to the baby this other Monkey Jumped out from the bushes lepton her took the bag of peanuts and was gone like in a flash it was so happened so fast she screaming I'm like what the fuck it was just like holy shit we're surrounded by these monkeys are everyone and that's when we realized like all the local people had these big steps and we thought they were walking sticks or something they're like to keep the monkeys away I didn't have a stick so I

like preventive triggered yeah I got like fuck you monkey you know I shouldn't you leave my girl alone he said that like Joe Dirt not into it right and yeah I felt like you know all this testosterone adrenaline and I was lucky and Hulk smash yeah so we you know 20 minutes later we're in this sort of field

and there's a tree in the middle of the field and they're more baby monkeys and by now she's totally forgotten about it she's just like any other cute so I have the peanuts now and she wants to give more peanut so I pull out a bag to give to her in this monkey comes out of the woods sort of a big one and he's like looking at me and I'm just like fuck you dude like I'm three times your size fuck you and he sort of like moves you know sort of does this thing and he's looking at me and there's a branch I picked up the branch and threw it

right kind of like what your buddy's trying to do with this bear like hey get the fuck out of here you know and this monkey just looked at the branch land in front of him and looked up at me and he was like you fucked up and he lept over it and came charging at me with he like these fangs yeah yeah just coming straight at me I went nuts I turned into a monkey I just started going higher

it's like jumping up and down and spraying spit everywhere and he stopped and we're like and he's and my girlfriend screaming and we're like 10 feet away and then he just like backed up like yeah fuck you well hello Primal moment whoa very Primal you didn't plan that know if I'd had a stick it would have been necessary so the moral of the story is Carrie was curious stick when you're on my walk softly and carry a big stick dude I wrap this up

go take a nap yeah I got shit to do give allies to death the price of progress Christopher Ryan 10 gently speaking and what's the other walking about it forever the first books I should on no no the what do you call your your your podcast from the van still just oh yeah gently if you tilt in generally speaking it's just hashtag of anthropology social media always good to see you brother thank you brother thank you thanks for being here yeah bye everybody

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