#1349 - David Sinclair

Sep 10, 2019

David Sinclair, Ph.D., A.O. is a Professor in the Department of Genetics and co-Director of the Paul F. Glenn Center for the Biology of Aging at Harvard Medical School. His new book "Lifespan: Why We Age And Why We Don't Have To" is now available.

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has a new book out called lifespan why we age and why we don't have to this is one of the most informative podcasts you were ever going to run across when it comes to aging and some really fascinating new information that's available for your ears and eyes please give it up for David Sinclair

The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day David Sinclair lifespan why we age and why we don't have to I'm so happy there are people like you out there because I don't want to age I'm aging clearly but not interested in it I don't like it yeah well I don't know anybody who does Joe Rogan thanks having you back on thanks for coming back the first one was a Smash Hit Man people loved it all my friends were very excited but I had a question for you right off the bat regarding metformin there was actually an article I'm sure you saw it recently like within the last couple of days that was going around through all the mainstream papers it was talking about how the use of Metformin DHEA and was there something else as well that was taking two years human growth hormone taking two years to biological years off of people's lives in terms of their

their age which are naturally with your actual I'm 52 it make me 50 right even 49.5 gonna go study that's how's that for yeah that was actu the that was a good study you know it's only nine people so we have to repeat this will they studs what did you get like nine super athletes or did you get like schmoes that don't exercise as far as I know these were just regular schmoes Schmo is yeah which is good news which most like me yes good news yeah well I mean that's what you want you don't want like some people just respond better they have super bodies you know look what great thing about that study is first of all I was with the first the main author on that paper while it came out I was over in Israel as part of my journey up the Great Rift of Africa ended up in Israel anyway the guy they're steep Horvath is his name he and I and a couple of other guys are trying to figure out not just why we age why we don't have to but

is aging truly reversible and that's what this study suggests is that it's not just about slowing down aging but one day we could be 80 but biologically 30 now when we're talking about the biological age how is that measured this is measured by the length of the telomeres is measured by physical performance is it measured by a combination of these factors it's none of that not something brand-new most people don't know about it so it's called the Horvath clock and what Horvath and others have discovered is that if you read the DNA and you don't just look at the letters actg if you look at what's on the letter c sizings called there are chemical modifications and those chemicals change as we get older in very linear and predictable ways if you use a computer AI you can say if I took your blood sample right now I could read your DNA look at those chemical groups on the Seas and I could say you are okay if

to you might be 46 according to that clock and also I could predict when you're going to die whoa scary thought right yeah like a fortune teller yeah but the good news is well now that we know what's not just measuring aging we actually think that clock is part of the aging process we're learning how to reverse it to hmm now is this just one modality this this combination of growth hormone is this one way of going about it are there other ways of going about it growth hormone DHEA metformin is there anything else well that's the first that's ever been trying to just those three things us but I'm sure there's going to be many more discovered we've only had this whole Dethklok over the last few years in humans being used widely but I think as we use this clock we're going to figure out that whole bunch of stuff that we do and things that we can do and combined will not just slow aging but reverse it and not just by two and a half years eventually and some of the technology that

I talk about in my book we think could turn the clock back by a decade or more whoa now what things are you talking about that could possibly turn it back a decade or more well so the and who do I have to blow sorry yeah you can blow me but yeah you may have to do it a few times but the amazing thing about where we are now today with aging and we're right on The Cutting Edge so it's great to be able to share this with your listeners is this clock it's changed on the DNA right what I'm saying in my Theory of Aging is that it's not the DNA that we lose that's the old Theory you know the old idea that antioxidants hurt the deers just throw that out for a while maybe forever what I think is going on is that the DNA is getting modified and the cell can't read the DNA the way it used to okay that's really important and so the clock is not just

clock it's not a clock on the wall it's also if you move the hands of the clock time changes that's what I think is going on can we pause right here for a moment and explain what you were saying about antioxidants well antioxidants have been the biggest disappointment in the Aging field doesn't stop 40 million people every day buying drinks with antioxidants in them but antioxidants have with very few exceptions failed to extend the lifespan of any organism but you are a proponent of Resveratrol at least you used to be are you still I still take it and we still study at my lab but what's you brought this up is really important Resveratrol was originally thought to be an antioxidant and it is a mild antioxidant but the way it really works we know this is a fact from my lab is that it's stimulating the body's defenses against aging and disease because it's binding to these enzymes that we work on called sirtuins and these are the Defenders of the body and you were saying that

I remember correctly you take Resveratrol you take a powdered form actually bought exactly what you take and you mix it with yogurt in the morning is that is how you do it yep what's the dose that you take well probably comes out to about a gram gram yeah okay so if someone's taking capsules

what depends if probably capsules at 250 milligrams that'd be okay so in the morning yeah you know I'm still alive It's So that's its could look good oh thank you do you is it important to take it with fats is that why you take it with yogurt yeah yeah either high protein which is a Greek yogurt surfaces or fat but water it's like break dust it won't dissolve and absorbed but a glass of whole milk maybe would be okay that's great but it has to have something to bind to is that the deal for sure yeah in our studies in humans and in mice if we didn't give them high fat food it barely got in there was five fold less now this study of Metformin DHEA and human growth hormone does not include an amen

right so but nmn is also effective well let's delve in a little bit please if you read the paper and I have turns out one of the effects of this treatment was the reduction in the levels of a protein called cd38 cd38 resides on immune cells and it goes up as we get older and what they found one of the biggest effects of the treatment was the levels of this cd38 protein went down so what is the cd38 this is the main enzyme in our bodies that degrades NAD NAD is required for the sort of to and Defenders to work so one possibility is that and I'm sure it's complicated but one way this could be working is by allowing your body to make an ADD and store it rather than degrading it as we get older

interesting so would supplementing with NM n which is a form of NAD correct a precursor yeah precursor would that enhance the effects do you believe like if they try to do a new study it could it could it could only teach each of these patients cost $10,000 for the treatment so it's not easy to do these studies $10,000 for the entirety of the treatment and the treatment lasts how long I've don't remember how long they treated the patients were but I do know that it wasn't cheap that's why they only did nine because I've first I said to my friend Steve Horvath nine patients you kidding me why didn't you do 50 and I went well we didn't have the money that's the wrong anyway my point really is that we need to test a lot of different combinations include anime and include a there's one called rapamycin which is a little bit more risky and toxic but there are better molecules in development the question is what is the best combination and do

use it with exercise and fasting or is it bad to combine them all together we don't know yet that's a good question to that I wanted to ask you because one of the things that came out of the podcast was input from some other people that I know that are nutrition experts and performance experts that were skeptical about metformin and they were saying that metformin although it may have an anti-aging effect it actually decreases physical performance and athletes well that there was a study that shows that and was virtual to actually real can prevent the great gains from hot exercise so here's the solution of that I think is worth trying a solution and that is a theme that I have in my book and in my my research and that is we don't want to be doing everything everyday necessarily we want to pulse it we want to shock the body and let it recover we know that you can't just exercise I mean some people have been on this show run a hundred miles every every weekend but generally you want to hit it hard and let it recover hit it hard

cut so what I am planning to do and actually started doing is on days that I'm exercising and recovering I don't take metformin and then when I'm just sitting around on a plane I do and that way I think that my body can have the best of both worlds so when you are not exercising and you take it you feel like it doesn't have a hit when you are exercising and not taking it so it's somehow or another whatever performance hit it has its temporary yeah right so well this is all just theoretical it is we're right on The Cutting Edge of human knowledge we don't actually know what the best thing is but my best guess is that we want to allow the body to recover so I don't take Metformin on those days rather than taking metformin every day like a diabetic would mmm now what are what is the what's that hit like what is happening what's the mechanism behind the performance hit from taking metformin

we don't know but I can tell you the best explanation that I can give you so metformin is a derivative of plant molecule the French lilac so it's not crazy molecule it's pretty natural but what it does is many things in the body scientists will quite annoyingly argue about it for they have for the last past 40 years so there's no correct answer but what I think is going on is that metformin is interfering with the mitochondria mitochondria in the cell mitochondria that we call the battery packs they basically making chemical energy without that chemical energy we'd be dead in about 20 seconds so we need that for life so metformin interrupts that energy production in the mitochondria but you need the mitochondria to amplify after you've exercised so they're antagonizing each other so why does metformin work by inhibiting the mitochondria the body gets a signal that it doesn't have enough chemical energy it's not making enough so it expands the number of mitochondria these are ancient

remnants of bacteria that entered ourselves and we have less if we sit around and like we are now and we have more if we exercise and Metformin by telling the body a shit we're running out of energy the body responds to makes more mitochondria just like exercise does but I think if you're taking metformin and exercising that inhibition is preventing the benefit somehow of what you get with exercise perhaps preventing your house so like what did the study or what studies have been done and what did they reveal I don't remember the precise details of the study it was it was giving metformin every day to people who were in a controlled exercise I think was treadmill a few times a week but then what they measured was the mitochondrial benefit now that and I think they measured a bit of strength so confusing that there's a metal cup mitochondrial benefit but a performance hit well no they actually metformin prevented the mitochondria from amplifying up oh all right so then it must

be interfering with the signal that you get from exercise whatever that is we don't know exactly what that is

so you really have to be some sort of a guinea pig to try to fuck with this stuff to go back and forth from taking it and exercising not taking it yeah I'm sighs I'm one of those guinea pigs yeah and what do you mean no disrespect but how hard are you working out not enough you know if I'm saying spend three hours a week in the gym that's not bad it's all in one day that's maintenance or one day yeah really one day three hours yeah that's ridiculous he's doing it that way because I'm a smart but you're so smart that drives me crazy when smart people do dumb shit like I had Peter hotez on the podcast he's a brilliant man and University of Texas he's a researcher in tropical diseases and he's obsessed with diseases and the importance of vaccinations all these different things that he's talking about how he is diet is terrible junk food is constantly Jack-in-the-Box and Shadow I'm like what the fuck man you're so smart and you're a guy who works on diseases what's the number one cause of

diseases yeah I don't get that some of my colleagues it the worst food and they studied longevity crazy it's crazy it's like they can't help their impulses it's like there's so many people like that that are obsessed with various aspects of Health performance but they just they just can't get it together well I would work out more if I had time I'm usually working till midnight and after that I'm not really can you go to the gym you do have an excuse you have a crazy work schedule you do have an excuse yeah well I'm on planes Fair bit so I try to exercise on the planes pretty hard do you really want a bathroom you guys trash you know squats so now he thinks you're crazy yeah I've gotta pee Lottery doing blowing there something you haven't done in a while people think you're in there doing math yeah doing something in there once

yeah so what do you do when you work out it looked waits for an hour then do a fair bit of stretching and then and then I actually do some hot and cold treatment okay yeah you remember we did the cryotherapy last time yes yeah that was fantastic yeah I want to do it again today if your time I'll do a fantastic Man 2 yeah still planning on doing it today I did a hot yoga or earlier so I like to do hot yoga in the morning and then cryo after podcast so I like to mix it up right let's do it all right I don't have a crier handy at my place but I do the sauna and then called up and you should get a kraut set up they're not that expensive you get one what about these infrared boxes there any good 004 saunas I do not know but some people swear by them Laird Hamilton who were talking about by the way how goes our coffee it's fantastic there might be able to pump up superfood coffee well we'll get you more well oh Jeff is going off to pick up our Pablo Escobar mug

picture I'm obsessed with mug shots for some strange reason always collecting new mug shot pictures got a giant Pablo Escobar it's very nice the Laird Hamilton stuff is that's got turmeric it's got coconut milk it's organic coffee I'm so addicted to it I drink that stuff like water yeah I'm gonna have to get myself so yeah it's delicious he sought me you could just you don't need a machine either can mix it yourself he has all the stuff you just poured into coughing yeah I mean he's a hero of mine for us Doug was he's 50 something that's a thousand years old guy runs mountains fucking surf things tall is the Empire State Building he's a very interesting character the last I saw him I was watching something on Instagram I saw him in a sauna with oven mitts on riding a bike like one of those Echo bikes like those Rogue you know those are sought bikes riding one of those fucking things in a sauna I was doing his sauna routine I did

not like it I was cranking the song up to 220 degrees and I think I cooked my lungs a little bit not bad but people who listen to the podcast afterwards my apologies because I was I was coughing like that for like four or five episodes and then I had decided okay this is fucking stupid like I don't think this is good for me right well you know hormesis yeah what doesn't kill you makes you live longer that's not exactly true you can push it a little too far sometimes yeah but booze booze doesn't kill you but it definitely doesn't make you live longer that is true have you drink hard every night kill somebody shit if you look at two people one the drinks hard and their brother who just drinks water and runs all the time boy that water drinking guy looks fucking fantastic doesn't he in comparison well yeah that's probably another one of my vices and got to lay off the alcohol who's yeah well how much do you drink I'd probably have one or two a day when I'm on vacation like you I overdo it I just got back from vacation it's my body's way out of shape yeah I

Phantom vacation man last time I was on vacation I was doing this I was grabbing my size because in Italy I went hard I was drinking wine every now it's talking about a half a bottle of wine every night I was eating pasta all day long but I'm on vacation I just go fuck it and also I kind of gives me a little project when I come back you know like all right now it's time to get serious right right well I was in Africa recently and I've got to tell you one of the when you see a wildebeest get attacked and chewed on for 45 minutes by a crocodile nothing better than going back to the camp and having a beard or to calm down so I did a lot of that so when you were on Safari how did you when are you in one of those open Jeep deals yeah a lot of that we did also some hiking we had mess I leaders that would go out and with a Federal Officer with gun to protect us oh Christ it was fun it's so much so different than being in a jeep to walk

on the cats oh yeah man you gotta sure you're almost dead yeah it's just like you're right there you feel like you're alive you know how you get the feeling of what it was like to be an early human I've never encountered anything other than bears in the woods that are terrifying I've never seen a mountain line while like hunting I've only seen two mountain lines ever one was from my back porch in Colorado and one was in the street and Santa Barbara I was driving and I saw one run across the street right I didn't realize it was a mountain lion until I saw the Tails like oh shit I thought it was a coyote or something then I saw that long tail but while hunting I've the only thing I've ever seen as a grizzly bear I saw a grizzly bear wants I've seen black bears black bears are unnerving grizzly bears are terrifying they look at you like this you could shoot him and they'll still come they just look right through you they look like am I eating you what's going on with you I'm going to eat you like they're trying to black bears a like oh should I get out of here should I run am I the boss Are You The Boss like they're not sure

grizzly bears are fucking sure they're the boss who's trying to figure out whether or not they should eat you right now actually one of the things you realize when you're amongst these animals it's a huge privilege for us to go for a walk without getting eaten yes yeah we don't think about it that way because we're so used to being in parks and oh I'm out nature the fuck you are you're not really in nature here in some weird sort of Nature Preserve that we've sort of set up inside cities right and people ask me about my work oh isn't what you're doing unnatural fuck natural what about our weld is natural anyway brushing your teeth is a naturally they're stupid right what you're born with a toothbrush in your hand shut up right right well I would down flew over here water at 30,000 feet drinking a cocktail surfing internet and also natural that's natural you're getting bombarded by solar radiation your boozing it up you're also somehow or another online no way that anybody is ever going to be able to explain to me that my puny brains can understand right yeah exactly well yeah don't give

the argument that aging is natural therefore it's acceptable because I don't buy any of those natural things because everything on Earth is natural even chemicals there is no we're not getting them from the Stars we're not pulling them out of the dimensions like what are you talking about it's all from Earth everything right even Paul ceuta calls most of them have derived from Plants sure in Africa was hanging out with but what tribe these are the pygmies they used to be in the forest and I had the chief take me through the forest and he's showing me all the drugs they used to take there's this clustered in IAM I think I'm saying it right it was a leaf they used to chew on they'd smoke a bit of weed they'd go a little dizzy they crouched down after about 15 minutes they'd stand up and they felt Invincible they'd go kill one of those elephants in the jungle Jesus that means killed elephants yeah many elephants oh the smaller elephant yeah but now the kind of smaller people rights old meanie out they can't accept the worms the worms were about this long my buddy Justin ran we're a big supporter of fight for the Forgotten charity it's a charity that my friend Justin run setup and they

Wells for the pygmies the Congo and through this application called the cash app and I've personally donated to and we also we're doing benefits for them we're doing a big benefit in La coming up soon that will be announcing soon but he goes over there all the time and he's had malaria three times and just recently has acquired some unknown parasite that is just devastating his health he's trying to figure out what it is so he's got to go through a battery of tests and they've got a you know examine him but next time it goes over there apparently he's going to bring his own food but mean the fucking poor guys got malaria three times yeah well you should be taking his medicine more often I think but they'll know it reoccurs does it really obvious not get rid of it well it's it becomes systemic right it's horrific man and the way he describes it and he's a gorilla I mean a fucking gorilla he's a huge man he fights for Bellator he's one of their heavyweight contender

so he's this you know 250 pounds stud of a guy who goes over there and catches these horrific diseases and just like barely survives right come and gets the medication and comes back but then when he gets sick sometimes it'll kick back in again it's kick back in twice another reason we don't want to go back to natural way of life but you're a good man Joe for supporting those the pygmies I was just in a such a fucking angel when you you talk to him and you you see his documentaries that he's put out in his films that they've done with water for now just with his organization fight for the Forgotten like you can't help but help oh gosh I was in on the Ugandan side of the volcano Rift and the way they live was just it was shocking and we're going to help rebuild a school for them but they need help and the right on the edge of civilization the but or tried the pygmies are in the worst situation than anybody and there

third the lowest of the low they're picked on racially they were kicked off their land yeah to save the guerrillas in these elephants and I don't know what to do they've got they everything they knew how to how live is gone and they're crazy they're kicked off their land to save animals right yeah well give it there's no doubt there's no way out you got to do that well isn't there a way to not kill the animals and have them all coexist I guess you could have kept them in the boat it's a national park so you can't easily have humans living the national pocket suppose you could but they are trying to modernize them so they put them on this small few acres of land which they're trying to learn how to farm and the way they subsist is through tourism so I would recommend anyone who's interested go see them support them by a lot of stuff we I think we bought up quarter of the village they love that but we're gonna go back and do something meaningful that was awesome

that's awesome natural so we were taught we go with off sidetracked so you were in Africa which is the most realistic environment I mean if you want to really know what nature is all about you were in the most realistic environment it's all tooth Fang and Claw it's like whatever survives survives and whatever doesn't become food and there's just this constant cycle going on and you're walking around yeah now when you walk it up will you walking when you saw the crocodile eat the wildebeest know you're in the Jeep I was in the Jade for that how does a Jeep thing work why don't they just jump in the Jeep I don't understand that uh good question and I asked myself that as though walking by same with the gorillas they've been habituated to humans they literally don't even see the Jeep or the gorillas don't they're you know they're not aggressive unless they think you're a threat they don't eat meat they just eating plants all day yeah they're still pretty dangerous One swipe from a gorilla oh my God gray back with so

back up it's interesting that the Jeep's have been around for so long they just go under the Jeep they're the they're going on here yeah yeah that it's as though the Jeep's aren't there you might have six Jeeps looking we saw some lines rip apart o Impala right in front of us and they just going about their daily lives you see it catch it just missed that we saw them running away from who God if I saw them running in real life I'd shit my pants well they're running towards our camp so we are running out of the way I heard a horrible story about these people they're on Safari camp and this person went to use the bathroom in the middle of the night apparently you know there's cabins and you have to leave the cabin to go to the bathroom and the cats went in the bathroom and got them and drag them out the kidding no that's the worst way to go yeah it's the hyenas you got to watch out for because that'll actually Eat You Alive I'll fuck yeah but the locals don't like the hyenas they don't have respect any animal that eats another animal while it's still

screaming oh yeah they don't give a fuck they don't try to kill you they just eat yeah that wildebeest had a broken leg it got away from the Croc but it was it's pushed me at that point yeah but there were people in the Jeep so I'm other Americans cheering it was like a sport for them oh no I didn't appreciate fucking a man it was a solemn moment this animals gonna die and they're like woohoo no chasing it must be men right it was mixed it was girls I'd be super concerned although I think it was a few but girls were cheering yeah fuck him might have been I think was the guys cheering but hard but that would chasing this poor animal it's Horford been broken off and it was running on a broken leg and they were chasing it the people are the Jeep and people in the back of the Jeep yeah my kids with me they were screaming and crying it was it was emotional and I want to see you yeah yeah I I've never seen anything take anything out in the real world it's shocking you know you can see it it's eat on BBC

never as much as you want when you see it live my friend Johnny Hamilton he works at a ranch in Colorado shot out to Johnny he was following the trail of this gigantic elk they'd seen all these footsteps and they seen Mountain line footsteps and then there was no more mountain line footsteps and then they followed it about a hundred yards or show or so and they found the cat the cat on top of the elk it had jumped on the Elks back and killed the elk as a hundred fifty pound cat a 900-pound elk a big bowl and it just leaped up on its back and just like and got a hold of its neck and neck and dragged to the ground but it rode it for like a hundred yards yeah the Croc did this to to the wildebeest yeah so elephants are interesting we saw a lot of those and what we learnt was that the old elephants because they've run out of their teeth their teeth wear down and at some point they just can't chew anymore so they have to find really soft stuff eventually they die and that gives rise to this

legend that there's this graveyard For Elephants not a graveyard is just way too soft food is but I was thinking if elephants had technology they could easily solve aging they just get dentures and yeah why can't we just track them and give them some implants yeah well they do it with people right and I think in the zoo they might do something like that hide my they do a dog bite III built that wearing out yeah I've seen that before with people it's cool it made sense like it's my daughter's teeth and but I said to the dentist I know changing topic here but with it's funny I said at the dentist can you fix my teeth you just did my daughter they went on oh you're almost 50 we don't fix T that 50 excuse me do I feel like you're on your way out exactly yeah someone said that to me when in terms of meniscus I had a meniscus tear and they said well when you're younger you have more blood flow to your meniscus and we would just surgically repair it and hope it would fix or perhaps today you stem cells but most likely

only because of your age it's not going to heal correctly and I'm like okay I'm confused because you're talking about blood flow like blood flow like what is happening that's different I don't I think this is like some old medicine nonsense like is blood not flowing I mean well it's flowing and someone with your Fitness is Flowing probably as much as a 30 year old anyway I'm in better shape than I was when I was 30 I do more shit I do more running you know I'm like Mom I got a lot of blood flowing around man I'm I'm I think they compare you to sedentary people for sure they do that's the problem with most medicine is that it's tailored to the average person yeah we got it fixed that it's got to be personalized tailored yeah measured I think if I wanted to go on Safari like that like you did I would have to make sure that I wasn't around any cheering assholes like that I got I would have to take some sort of a solo trip and not have to be heavily armed right and then wearing armor some sort of armor well so that wasn't engineer and a flamethrower yeah

with me right right fuck those things man you'd ever see Survivorman you know Survivor - sure yeah less is a great guy but he's committed to finding bigfoot' now it's always doing these days all right yeah but anyway less did an episode where he did Survivorman in Africa and he the scenario he would create these fakes and arrows you know just man-made scenarios like what if you were in a hot air balloon and the hot air balloon got a hole in it and crash landed in these lion infested territories so he literally did that that's insane in the basket so he had a few items in the basket and the the flamethrower for the for the hot air balloon with him to ward off the fucking Lions so here he is it's nighttime in Africa and by the way he sell films everything you know the reason why they came out with that other show with that who's that other dude

other dude that that got busted like sleeping in the Holiday Inn he got he's going to the yeah Bear Grylls he was going to the Four Seasons at nights like this is how you could do it but I'm not gonna do it it would show you how to do it you could sleep in an igloo but meanwhile he would fucking right he was getting room service and eating steaks and shit yeah that's what I do but Les Stroud really does it I mean he brings a series of cameras so this is him and lasts went and he so that he pretends the thing crash-landed so this is his scenario that he's created for himself but the reality is he really is surrounded by lions and so he has a limited amount of propane and he would fire up look at look look look he would fire up that thing which is what you use to get in the hot air balloon and scare the shit out of lions so through the night he would hear you would hear that look at those are the fucking zebras and shit so we'd hear it in the middle of the night and you have to fire that thing up to scare everybody the fuck away and then after an hour

or so they'll be my are Farkle time to fire it up again and so he was out there sleeping in this basket trying yeah so crazy he's so crazy and he would also do these things where he would have virtually no food for seven eight days you know and just really just get super super skinny and almost starved to death that's the opposite of being in a jeep he's got like a bottle of water I got a pocket knife I got some rope like this is how you do it I got a stick what does that all some sort of a machete type thing fucking crazy yeah we went up in a balloon which was beautiful by the way it's fun isn't it I did that in Italy recently really wild yeah it's anyone who's afraid of heights don't worry it's beautiful but we had a truck underneath us with people with guns just in case that happened oh that's good yeah so they've got to take along people yeah there's all industry and keeping people alive they want to do stupid shit yeah probably right you can imagine all sorry the Serengeti burnt down yet with some kind of balloon

how many David writes how many days did you go there for we traveled for 16 days I took my whole family my little brother his kids how old is the kids two nephews and my kids are 16 14 12 perfect age for this in the they don't recommend you being under a certain age if you're going to take malaria medication right they hold it whoops really I don't I think 12 might be okay if I think it's like under 10 or something like that but there's you know the stuff is heavy duty like did it fuck with you did you have crazy nightmares I took the one that doesn't give you nightmares but my other siblings had that my father came so he's 80 and that was actually the reason we went its 80th birthday present oh wow that's cool what a cool present yeah days it was it was awesome we went our Kenya Tanzania Uganda with what did you like best Tanzania supposed to be gorgeous yeah Serengeti was incredible it was all good I really liked hanging out with the with

beings to their interesting species off for sure yeah I enjoy humans yeah so was the origins journey I called it and so we went to we started in Olduvai Gorge which is where humans the the original fossils were found going back a few million years wow and started there and then just went through looking at the various animals we saw the gorillas and we ended up a few days ago I was in Jerusalem looking at where we come oh wow real Origins tour yeah up there exciting again that's exciting wow that is so cool so what was the most unusual thing

besides Jerusalem is that the most unusual that's the most insane thing where all the religions are on top of each other touching rocks and blessings spraying and humans are crazy they'll worship anything well I'm sure you've seen I was in Germany wants and therefore a UFC and I was flipping through the channels on the television and there was this live feed from Mecca

and this is pre Instagram I was down on Instagram I would definitely would have because I watched it for hours I just sat there and my room drinking a cocktail with my feet up watching this these people circle around this what is that square shaped thing in the center of Mecca yeah if you get was it religious object that I believe I think says something to do with an asteroid like there's a piece of some find out that makes sense this is important to people but the the watching people Circle they're all wearing the religious Garb this Islamic Garb that they have to wear and they're all circling around this thing like for hours and hours and hours and I'm like It's oddly appealing like part of you wants to go I recognize that there's got to be a very strong sense of unity and community in everybody agreeing that

you're all going to treat this this is a sacred object is a sacred place we're going to wear a sacred close we're all going to follow this this path and this and we're all going to be together in this like this like super reinforced sense of community that's actually ordained by God himself well we all need that feeling for me at science and the fossils that I and my colleagues believe with the origins everyone needs an origin story here it is how would you say that cut kabaah goodbye it's built around a sacred Black Stone a meteorites the Muslims believe was placed by Abraham and isma'il Ishmael in the corner of the Kaaba a symbol of God's covenant with Abraham and Ishmael and by extension with the Muslim Community itself hmm okay yeah that there so it is it is actually a meteorite which how incredible right like a little bit of Science and a little bit of religion all wrapped up together this discovery so this this is

it looks like so you're watching this the Channel that I was watching in Germany again this is probably like more than 10 years ago 12 years ago perhaps and watching this circle around this

like religious spot very very captivating yeah the one that I remember most from I think was Jerusalem yeah was people touching the stone where the crucifix was thought to be in the wood lined up for hours to just touch it for a few seconds meanwhile the origin of humans the fossils there's maybe two or three people hanging out no one really cares admittedly it is out of the way it's not in the middle of the Middle East but still it struck me that humans are more focused on these icons of religion rather than where I believe we really came from Africa yeah I mean if you look at it and you see it you touch it feel it it's the only sensible explanation I mean you can still have religion that's fine but you know don't tell me those fossils were put there by somebody no I mean obviously not but it's it is that the idea that a human being came from some lower hominid which came originally from a shrew is so so hard for

hello like if you go all the way back to 65 million years ago to the asteroid hitting the Yucatan and you're like wait what happened yeah yeah big rock smashed killed everything except like these little rodent things and they just eventually evolved yeah but that's what I love about science it's amazing it's not only amazing it's actually true yeah we can prove it yeah I mean basically pretty good really follow the fossil record that's one of the funny things when people go oh what about the missing link there's missing there's holes in the fossil record well just holes in your education it's not holes I mean they go out to Australia Pittacus explain Australia Pittacus extreme explain explain the various other human beings you know experience explain homo floresiensis explained the Neanderthal explain all these different there's a whole slew of different fucking things that were human like what was that God's experiments was God fucking around yeah I was like let's try to make them super short and wide

thick and heavy like a five foot seven 200 pound person that's way stronger than a person to add those are no good listen let's get a taller skinnier one but with bigger brains aha right and let's have them breathe that's what we did let's bang them yeah everybody bang I don't know if it was marriage or rape but something happened I think most rape mostly most breeding was rape until about like 500 years ago I agree with you do you know that to this day there's a country is it Kurdistan

what is the there's a country that twenty percent of all marriages begin and kidnapping

so there's a shame to the female being kidnapped she ultimately has to marry her captor find out that's what is it Curtis and Curtis Kyrgyzstan I'm not saying it yeah how do you say that Kyrgyzstan Tajikistan I think it's Kyrgyzstan yeah one in five girls and women kidnap for marriage in Kyrgyzstan how fucking crazy this is 2019 religion right shame but the fact that you could kidnap someone rape them and then they get shamed into marrying you well I was shocked in Jerusalem I'm going to probably have a lot of hate mail for saying this but it's a fact that when you go to the Wailing Wall as I didn't put little note in the wall which was a great experience by the way there is a space for men and women are separated but the space for men is four or five times bigger than the one for women good I couldn't help myself yeah it's all this disparity anyway so so early

a similar amount of women that are going through this wall and they're just jammed into a smaller area yeah still 2019 is this some ordained is this some sort of a religious yeah the Orthodox who apparently behind that I checked it out so there's there's an actual scripture that says men are supposed to have this - I doubt that so it's just ancient sexism well yeah and even the wall is just tradition yeah right but anyway the history of humankind is interesting and I did that because while we were there it was all the black spots that's like holes grass that's like plant material I think is it yeah the plants growing out of the wall well so it is okay they're not black we're just looking at low resolution that's the women's side that's the men's side do you remember the scene in

what is the World War Z when all those zombies climb up the wall they pile on top of each other like do you see World War Z no fucking great movie like I said is that there's a crazy scene it's Brad Pitt zombie movie where all the all the zombies pile up on top of each other and make it to the top of the wall you got it James going to pull it up huh so they get to the wall and look at these fucking zombie people are climbing up yeah yeah oh it's pretty gnarly man you never seen this movie I've wanted to does the novels are supposed to be excellent what the novels written by some famous guys son

who's who wrote the now but there's a great scene like see they're all piling on top of each other and there they just Reckless they have no concern for their health or well-being because they're you know look they're dead so they're just making this human thing and then the soldiers are shooting into the pile trying to knock them down but they get over the top of the wall and they start infecting people

it's pretty wild as movie yeah who wrote that movie

this is a vile movie man this is what it's one of those zombie movies where the zombies move fast that this is slow zombie movies which come on man like that's why Walking Dead like I feel like you could fuck those things up I mean they can only last so long they don't move fast like well how are they surviving they just kind of like shuffling towards you I feel like if you just have a big sword you can just start hacking away yeah so there are some B cells in the body and I make that segue because people are going to say why the hell are we talking about aging know we will okay we're here forever Max Brooks the son of Melbourne aha there you go shout out to Max Brooks and Mel Brooks sorry aging well we don't have to Zambia cells yeah so what are they we don't talk about Africa and your trip Joseph because it's pretty exciting it was amateur show to thank you when you're on it grabs oh well something else I recommend everybody go to Africa not just

come back a different person I better human being but also to support them they really need to help over there when you were in the area where the oldest human like fossils were found what's the feeling like when you're in this are like you really are where the origins of humankind or from I mean that is got to be a pretty profound feeling yeah it was spiritual unfortunately that the people who drove us they were saying how are you how are you have to go see some zebras this is more important than the zeros but these are the people that are the guides yeah yeah they don't know what was important to us for enough but I would have loved to have spent a whole day there they apparently there are still fossil sticking out of the walls of the Gorila yeah so the reason that it's a be allowed to do anything with them but Donna what happens if you find a fossil yes please contact University just like shut the fuck up well actually I probably shouldn't confess this on don't live me don't do it bro

tell me later it's not so bad okay you can actually find a whole bunch of stuff in Africa that's interesting if you look down rather than out and my oldest daughter our oldest daughter Alex she looked down she's a scientist and so she 16 year old scientist she found a whole bunch of stone tools whoa not they're not not in Olduvai Gorge that's sacred but you know just out on the Serengeti or wherever did you get them analyzed not yet

he recently found stone tools in the United States that they've brought back to 16 thousand years ago the oldest known stone tools of any human being and it sort of their there slowly but surely pushing back the dates of human civilization in America and one of the more recent discoveries with stone tools that are from 16,000 years ago so people had made their way over here or there it is - so you never saw it I don't know if you saw it yet they said it there's I don't know if they have video of it but they said they saw this monkey sharpening that stung before it was actually breaking the glass with it - shatters the glass with sharpened Stone impressive Prison Break attempt man fuck keeping monkeys in a cage that drives me so crazy I hate it I went I took a pot edible once with a real strong one and I went to the zoo it was so depressing staring at the chimps as

cross and watch the chimp cage I'm like oh my God these things are in hell yeah they're just in prison even keeping little birds in Kate little cages like this yeah but the monkeys are way that's worth right there wailing where they had some some type of monkey it was in a smaller cage than the Champs it was just wailing wow

just inhale yeah it is it's brutal actually that the the stone tools are interesting because again getting to what's natural what's natural for primates is to change their environment to take tools to yes so what we what we're doing genetic genetic engineering well I want to engineering but we're using genetically just and why we aren't why we agent why we don't have to it is natural of course that's what we do all of even all of science is natural you could even argue that an iPhone in your pocket is natural sure humans have created it they exist all over the world right I've argued that cities are natural it's a completely normal thing for humans to do to create cities to say that cities are unnatural well why they everywhere and why are human beings making are saying beehives are unnatural to write a clothes yeah unnatural well animal habitats mean animals like beavers create beaver dams and they're very uniform they're real similar everywhere they go exactly no yeah the other day I was someone said

humans timed fire 500,000 years ago and I said that can't be true 500,000 years ago that's too long ago I checked it out it's true and these weren't even humans these are pre-human I think it was probably one of the two species back we've been doing this we've been changing the environment using tools using fire for that long the fire when it's crazy right because it's not just manipulating a physical thing it's changing the state right you're doing something whether it's with flint and steel you know some something to spark and some tender you're really creating changing the state of matter

what we are and will continue to do that will continue to evolve and one of the the reasons that I wanted to see human Origins is in my book I talk about we've evolved to our natural lifespan we now a maximum hundred and twenty-two is the longest live human that ostensibly is on record the so without intervention we've reached our maximum but why not now give us what evolution failed to give us okay why can't we be like other species that are at the top of their game are there any factors when you look at the oldest people that are alive are there any common factors actually not really that they do seem to have a collection of Gene variants that predispose them to get to that long there's one called Fox 03 that if you've done your genome we can have a look 23andMe if you've done it oh yeah we should look at it I'm just tell you need an A or a tea at a certain position I've got one of them out of to my kids got two of my kids out of three have both so they if they look

themselves might have a better chance of living longer but anyway these long-lived people they tend to live a long time no matter what they do often they smoke till 90 years old really yeah

the quit at 90 there's a few cases of that and they live another 12 years right right there for 22 years right you said a hundred twenty two years old that right that's one one lady in France but I one of my friends here is his name is near barzillai when he was with me and Israel he's got a story of when he asked the centenarian lady lady that lived over a hundred that he knew why didn't you quit smoking and she said 004 doctors I went to told me to quit smoking and they've all died so he going that's hilarious what did she do for a living

John Coleman I forget the French lady I don't remember what she did I would imagine that would play a part like how stressful your occupation is and yeah she had a great sense of humor that was probably part of it it's used to make jokes with reporters all the time one was how many wrinkles you have she's as I've only got one and I'm sitting on it but the other one I think is even better as a reporter who was young said you know you're a hundred and sixteen I hope I see you next year for your birthday she says I don't see why not you seem pretty healthy to me wow and she made it to 122 now if there have been any anecdotal reports of people that live longer

well but those Lauren Biblical times and not biblical like not unsubstantiated reports of because I had heard of either some people that claim to have lived like ridiculously long but they've never really figured out whether or not it's accurate sure there's there's a few of those but even even John comment at 2822 there's a big argument now between us researchers whether that's even true oh really yeah it's a massive debate I've got an inbox full of long angry emails from scientist what's the evidence point to the contrary that too so the hypothesis is that she her identity was subsumed by her daughter to avoid paying taxes and those photos of them and there are there's a blotch on one photo that matches the daughter so there's a lot of forensics going on and people want to subsume the grave and the French government's not or French researchers aren't giving up the blood samples they go don't want to know I don't want to know so it's probably horseshit

well probably like a hundred years could it could be push it I would say it doesn't actually matter goddamn French it doesn't matter people have lived a hundred and Seventeen and that's still pretty good that's what we you know if it's in the we can all live live that long who's going to complain wouldn't you like to get one of them old old old old old people and start doing work on them yeah just pop them up with NAD get him on a drip well my dad's experimenting on himself so he's nodding hundred yet but he's 80 how's he look well I wouldn't say looks young but his Fitness is like a 30 year old and really he's stronger than me we tested out in the gym the other day no way that's embarrassing he can lift more he's fitter we're going across the Serengeti and he was leading the charge if you saw him if you didn't see his face because he's got gray hair and whatever physically he put a bag on his head you'd just you'd say is 30 the way he moves very weird to put it back in your dad's head yeah I shouldn't do that sorry Dad but he would think he's 30 really well he's reinvigorated in life so you know in my family

we've got some Ashkenazi bad genes we tend to Die Young and my grandmother died my grandmother is actually only 15 years older than my dad and she died a few years ago last ten years of her life horrible so we know what's going to happen in my family probably to all of us we don't sell your mother your grandmother had your father when she was 15 years old right whoa yeah back in the early days of World War Two she apparently was playing around with her boyfriend she claims to be a virgin but at that point but something got somewhere that shouldn't have and she was during High School right so I was raised by my grandmother she was in her 40s when I was a kid and she was the one that taught me to always stay young keep your you know Adults Ruin Everything that's probably why I work on Aging that's in it holds ruin everything but how it was her advice like in terms of like why how do you avoid what adults are doing wrong

well you know she'd grown up during the Depression and then World War Two and then the Communists came into Hungary and raped a lot of people she had no she had no respect for Humanity so by the time I came along first of all she put all of our energy into to me and I'm I was a spoiled brat as a kid so that that was wasn't helpful to me I think now as an adult but more importantly she wanted me to do the best I could with my life she said David do what you can to make this world a better place make sure that you leave this place better than you found it and that's what I'm trying to do wow what a profound and piece of advice for a grandchild she was a rebel she taught me forget the rules all right kind of like you do is I'm going my own way and we'll see how this goes she she went to Australia she said fuck Europe I'm out of here she went to Australia the furthest place you could find from your

never went back she went on Bondi Beach in Sydney in a bikini which was rebellious there is she got taken off the beach by by the police would you have to worry about that are the full little British thing d-daddy knees what it all down to your knees I think so too they look like maybe it was a full one piece but it's gonna be show your belly that's what I think but she was a rebel she went to New Guinea by herself in the 60s what year was this what she was wearing a bikini that would be 56 you couldn't wear a bikini in the 50s wow

while okay like those pin-up girls right when you see them they always had one piece suits on like yeah so imagine you Guinea in the 60s as a woman on her own I live in the highlands she claims to have eaten human flesh and so she spent most of the time drunk as well did you see that article that was yesterday where they were interviewing an Australian a guy who's a doctor or a scientist who's talking about climate change and he was saying that we have to start eating human bodies and that human bodies are very nutritious and that we just put them in the ground and the it I was reading it I was like okay is this kite rolling like what is what is he doing here is he a completely insane person but his advice was our dependence on me is ruining like in some places where they're you know they're stripping the rainforest to make room for cattle grazing

he was saying that we are getting rid of perfectly good meat every time we put someone in the ground well we are but but to suggest that is sounds insane to me yeah because when we throw away half our food anyway at least in this country it was a mainstream publication the sky was talking about is like the last thing you want to encourage is people getting used to eating people he's been watching World War Z may be all right yeah I mean it's just one of those things mate but come on I was I was going is this guy just trying to get attention like the seems like such a whore is it that he was he joking and it's hard to tell in text you know yeah well yeah you said that not every Australian is sensible I found the article but I don't see anything about him saying wasting even bodies or meat it's been a more than several articles written on it maybe someone extrapolated but the idea was he was saying that people should eat meat and if they want to eat meat it should eat human because well maybe always animal rights activists might be just an idiot it your relative

yeah yeah but just last thing you want is people getting the taste of people you know right now I do not need to go that far not yet speaking of the food supply one of the things people worry about if we all live longer is we're going to run out of food and run out of space yeah and what are things I address in the book is what really will happen if you do the calculations if you look at human history that is not going to happen I'm of the strong belief that we can engineer our way out of just about any problem probably the only thing we can't engineer our way out of is if we get hit by a five-mile wide meteor right but everything else I think we're going to be you think climate change we're going to be able to engineer a way out of well I think we can stop climate change at this point it's definitely happening you can see it all around but will wipe us out know it will it cost us trillions of dollars a year and so I don't think it's going to be the end of us but it's going to be a challenge to continue to survive and

as a species in the face of all of those costly things and that's the biggest problem of climate change besides species losses the expense and the Euro there's only certain amount of human capital that we have to spend and we call it money and that's one of the reasons that I'm excited about extending People's Health and life span is that that'll save tens of trillions in the globe each year and that's money that can be put to combating global warming saving species besides you know wonderful people who donate their their earnings as well but really to solve the big problems in on the planet one of them is to solve what we can do with all the frail elderly people that are coming right every year more and more

make them productive like my father he could be in a nursing home like his mother was whereas now he's hiking in the jungles looking at watching Gorillas with his five grandkids how cool is that it does pretty cool know what kind of protocol is he on pretty much the same as me although he does more exercise so it's a combination of any man-made foreman and Resveratrol

and what kind of exercise I'm not sure if he's protocol we're going to post that on on social media once we get shortened but I know it involves a fair amount of aerobic exercise he does rowing and and walking up stairs so he managed to climb I think it was 40 stairs in 50 40 flights of stairs in 15 minutes which for an 80 year old was was quite a record any flights of stairs and 15 minutes holy shit yeah the guys have phenomenon what what has happened though is that his outlook on life has changed he was depressed not not just because he was fearful of getting old my mother was sick at the time but now he's looking forward to another 10 years of vigorous life traveling and it you know when you're healthy you're happy so when he was depressed was he sedentary

no no he was depressed because he was worried about his health he figured he's gonna be like all his other friends getting frail can't can't walk losing your mind and it hasn't happened to him so he just a few years ago I went back and started a new career whoa are we talked about this last time I believe what's his new career again he's on a committee that evaluates clinical trials for ethics wow which is what you want older people to do use their wisdom and knowledge to excited about something as well write something that stimulates you and keeps you going and it gives you something to be interested in and talk about wasting human flesh what a waste it is for someone with that knowledge to die prematurely right that's the more interesting thing to me about longevity is look I'm so much wiser at 52 than I was at 42 I just am I make less mistakes I'm more aware just across the board and I'm wiser at 42 than it was at

and at 22 I was basically a champ so it's like as time goes on you understand how your interfacing with the world you you communicate with people better you know how to get by you know what you have to do and what the consequences are of not doing what you have to do in terms of being disciplined and being healthy and just meditation and making sure you you understand the consequences also of not doing the work that you're supposed to do in terms of like the way you feel about yourself your self-respect and the way you just feel about like your sense of self-satisfaction it's it to me takes a big hit when I'm lazy takes a big hit when I don't get things done and I don't expect everybody to do the same things that I do or have the same sort of work ethic or none of it now I don't even say work ethics that implies like some sort of

superiority it's more of just the idea of what you want to accomplish like your tasks everyone has their own idea of what but if you enjoy doing something and you're working towards something I feel like

there's more purpose to life you have more satisfaction in accomplishing tasks and that's one of the things that's been highlighted when you read books on happiness and studies on happiness one of the things that seems to be most important is goal setting goal setting working towards those goals and achieving progress but these are critical components to happiness for human beings and without them with is this aimless sort of drifting of life people for the most part obviously everyone's different but for the most part people don't find satisfaction and just a nameless sort of drifting existence yeah hundred percent I'm I just turned 50 while I was over in Africa I'll just before that you know imagine being 80 and healthy that like my dad ninety or a hundred it is of course I'm so less stressed than I was in my 20s and 30s and anyone who's listening who's in their 20s and thinks that they're you know way better than a 50 year old I can tell you from experience like you Joe when I was in my 20s I

I knew everything or at least I looked at myself as as a fifty-year-old I thought what an old fart yes yeah it's not like that at all especially with today's health and 50 year olds are just like they were like a 30 year old was killed you know fifty two year olds like me when I was 20 they didn't exist maybe Jack LaLanne right well it it's be talked about I think was in the New Yorker that this movie Cocoon I don't know if everyone seen it but it's a pretty interesting movie where these 50 60 year olds are we given the Fountain of Youth and they still look old but it was really supposed to be quite funny to see these older people with gray hair jumping in the pool and acting 30 years old but a 50 year old isn't old anymore 50 rolls just getting going yeah that's crazy about it you know I mean if you see old movie stars from like the 1960s when they were like 50 they looked like they were dead men you know like we were

we're looking at I forget what the movie was but it was a movie where I was like how old was he when they made that movie it turned out he was 44 like that guy looks a hundred years old looks like he's never worked out he probably smoke cigarettes all day long never exercises never drinks constantly this looks like a dead man it's crazy right so so in the future 90 will not you will feel like 50 and full we were talking about Laird earlier and layered I think is 55 years old and just as fucking fit as a human being can be and he's doing crazy shit where he's got this whole exercise routine that he does inside the pool where he brings like 70 pound dumbbells and he carries it with one arm and swims across the pool and the other you know he does two-handed dumbbell things the bottom of the pool and leaps the surface catches her breath of air drops back down to the bottom again leaps the surface why is carrying these dumbbells I mean just ruthless rigorous exercise at 55 years old well they'll be a time when you

we tell how old somebody is especially when we figure out how to reprogram the body to be young again yeah it's going to be such such a great world when people with 80 years of experience can continue to run companies and be teachers and educate the young people now that there's a bias though against the elderly we've always had this in society and we have to overcome that my dentist was biased against me as a 50s I don't want to fix your teeth you're dead bro not fixed not worth the money screw it I'll pay for it just do it so it says a 20-minute argument do it do it 20 minutes it was a lot in fact the time ran out and she said fine I'll do one tooth just to check because she was had all these reasons why I shouldn't do it'll break off I have to polish back your original teeth and I said look I'm not going to get angry if it doesn't work just just try it and she did it and at first of all she said I have to eat crow after it and then my wife came a week later and she said man your husband's a pain in the ass but he's onto something and actually she's offering this as a service now to people our age yes trying to make money I guess

got it fuck it hasn't cracked off and I'm pretty happy with teeth that if it does fix it again right why not yes everything and we should do that yeah but here's the problem with with some aspects of medicine when we're young we don't get the medicines that will prevent us getting sick when were old yeah so drugs like metformin you're not going to give to a 23 year old right but when you get old you don't get the medicines that they give the young when everyone should be treated equally in my view as long as we know it's safe for sure you know there's the cost but some of these treatments like metformin that's probably less than a dollar a day cup of coffee and might extend your lifespan where you going to cup of coffee for a buck I get free coffee from from here you Laird Hamilton superfood machine but coffee is even more expensive than that yeah it's some The Limited idea of what you should or shouldn't do to fix people as they get older my friend got his ACL torn and he's 60 and as his doctor recommended he just rehab it and don't get it fixed I what the fuck are you talking about

get it fixed man you want to have a bum knee that just buckles on you all the time go get it fixed six months later would be done like you'll go through the rehab otherwise six months later you still have a shitty knee it's like your call man but I just get it fixed bite the bullet go fix it right but it's doctor was like we're come on Bruce come on Bruce let's be honest we're at the end of the movie not 2020 anymore yeah that's that limited tank limited thinking so the frustrating to me yeah I first encountered this when I was 29 actually I applied 229 it's a wrap they well they were no actually this is the problem with the other end of the Spectrum which is I was too young to get a medicine that could help me when I get older oh wow his cholesterol medicine the statins and my doctor said why do you want to get on this drug I know you've got high cholesterol but you're only 29 come on and I said look why wait till I get the disease to treat it

but you know now people use statins more but in those days it stands very controversial though they are they apparently have a huge Health hit well I haven't noticed and I have high cholesterol and I think it's worth it but yeah if there's nothing else wrong with you you wouldn't take them but do you have arterial plaque no not yet I'm perfectly clear but shouldn't isn't but isn't there some there's there's doctors that are arguing that the idea of high cholesterol that height where it's LDL HDL with it's good cholesterol bad cholesterol this like this sort of uniform approach people with high cholesterol need to take something that Lowe's their cholesterol and doctors that I've talked to are saying well not necessarily it all it you could be incredibly healthy especially if you're not sedentary with with relatively high cholesterol if everything balances itself out if you have the appropriate ratio of HDL to LDL right do you have the appropriate Ratio or is it out of whack now I do but when I was 29 I was off the charts

I had I had a blood that looked more like cream and that's where one of the things apparently were dietary cholesterol does make a hit it does have an effect on people with genetic predisposition to high cholesterol in certain ways right is that correct right yeah right but changing my diet had a big impact as well what did you do to differ that was different I went more lightless I lost weight that helped do you do intermittent fasting yeah as much as I can one of the other guys that was on this tour of Israel with me is valter Longo and he's the arguably the world's expert on this what a great name isn't it is an Italian guy Walter long go long go yeah I like the coffee so here a guy calling when you got a real problem yeah yeah well he's he's written a book and he is the probably world's expert in human periodic fasting his

everyone who wants to know about what the best periodic fasting protocol is there isn't one we don't know yet we're right on the cusp there haven't been enough studies but there are a few types I go through them in my book so because I we won't have time to go through all of it but there's the what is it the 18 14 hours yeah it's a go it if you can go skip breakfast have a late lunch that's a good start that's what I try to do every day it's not always possible like when you're in Africa and they feeding you massive meals three times a day but the that's what you want to do be hungry for part of the day or you can go a little more extreme and skip two days what's the benefit of being hungry great question and this is what my lab and others figured out in a year to your first few years of the 21st century we figured out that these genes that extend lifespan these sirtuin genes are activated by being hungry in part by raising NAD levels which we enter man

mimic the effect of so being hungry actually raises your lifespan in some sort of way right so Clark restriction is what we used to talk about a lot if you restrict the calories of a rat was actually discovered back in the early 20th century will make them live up to 30% longer not in an Old State but it prevents them getting old so the rats don't get cancer heart disease and all of these other good things and that was the only thing that we knew up until about 20 years ago even 10 probably and so we used to think you had to be had to be hungry all the time and there was a still is a society called the calorie restriction society and they were hungry all the time that very small meals which is pretty tough I tried that and gave up after a week but this new paradigm is that you don't have to always be hungry similar to you don't always have to be on a treadmill you can do it for a short time make it intense and then you can let your body recover and go back to our normal life for a little bit and that's

great news that means that we can have our cake and eat it too so to speak as long as the cake doesn't have a lot of sugar in it now when you are on this protocol of restricted eating plus metformin when do you take what and when do exercise and how do you balance it out like what when do you know what to do what I use my body as a guide you know now that I'm 50 I have a pretty good like you know you know you know how your body feels and reacts I'm also measuring it a ring that matches my pulse and my sleep is that the aura yeah how do you spell that a ourour a yep that isn't Kevin Rose a part of that company is that easy is that it yeah James says yeah okay from dig you know digg.com you don't know dig no I'm how dare you sorry it's a good place to go find cool shit okay okay digg.com shout out to dig yeah I go there every day because real interesting stories on the internet you're always fine

cool weird videos and just fascinating science stories human nature human interest stories sounds good I have a watch what kind of watch a using the Apple watch okay how does that measure by the way they just released Apple watch five today apparently it's better you might want to get it was it do what is though Apple Watch 2 yeah week house it well changes songs in my headphones till the time occasionally but yeah what's useful with it is our pulse and activity hmm and if I haven't moved in after in the day I've got a standing desk and that's been helpful to make move around a little bit more but mainly its and also do occasional blood test to make sure that my body's optimized as best I can personalized and usually all those measures you read the data off your watch like how do you read it what would application are you using nothing special just on my phone have a look

okay so you just have a look like what your resting heart rate is how much activity how far you're walking how many calories you're burning that kind of deal yeah yeah pretty simple and I'm happy to say my resting heart rates really low which means you know things are going okay so far for me even though I don't do enough exercise as you rightly point out I think my resting heart rates are 46 that's very good it's pretty amazing for guy that Bailey does exercise yeah you must have good genetics well obviously do your dad's in phenomenal shape at 80 know we have terrible genetics so houses in such great shape at 80 well we don't know but but it could be that he's been exercising and he's also been on this Paradigm so one of the effects in mice at least of MN which is what we're taking is improved blood flow you get the benefits of exercise without having to exercise if you're a mouse and those mice that were running on a treadmill for 50% further because the blood flow and the lactate was reduced really so maybe that's happening with

incredible now what is the difference between the effects of nmn and IV NAD which is very popular there's people that take IV NAD and I've never done it but we've talked about doing it many times and have it brought in here and sometimes people do it and they do it very quickly when you do it it only takes 10 minutes but it hurts like hell apparently it gives you like stomach knots and you feel terrible right all right it's not done it I haven't admitted publicly that I've done it do it but I but I try everything once up that microphone I try everything once yeah and so last time I was out here in La I gave it a gave it a shot so to speak yeah how was it it was fine it was fine now let's get to the science in a minute but what I found was that was a shot in the butt with Society so why didn't they do it in a Venus I thought that was the move they did intramuscularly right right this doctor is

experimenting oh Jesus yeah it was it was a friend of a friend so I had as I got an idea came here yeah come here but here's the thing it felt I had tingles in my legs I felt a little different for a few minutes maybe 10 minutes and then it went away yeah but the science we don't know yet we're still trying to figure out if that actually works or not so instead I'm taking the molecule we've studied in my lab which is taken as a pill now there are a lot of people that swear by the IV version of NAD and when they do it intravenously apparently you feel phenomenal there's quite a few people I know my friend Kyle Kingsbury's done it several times and he's very big on the latest and the greatest of Health craze has well I know it's being used widely especially down in Florida to treat addiction and a day interesting Ivy and I get emails all the time which is best but you know I'm a

just I'm at Harvard Medical School so I have to always be based on facts and the fact is we don't know if it works yet right anecdotes are anecdotes my father's story it's not a clinical trial right we need to do more but what's interesting about this field is that because people have access to information through podcast like yours and through the internet now that papers you can go to What's called PubMed Central and fine papers people educating themselves just like scientists used to and they can go to the doctor or go to the Internet and try experiments on themselves now I don't condone that I can't I'm a researcher not a doctor but I find it really interesting that we're in a new phase of society where people can learn more in many cases than the doctors actually no sure in particular when it comes to nutrition because that's one of the things that I've found it's shocking when you talk to some doctors and you talk to them about nutrition particularly supplementation and they'll say things like well you can get everything from a good diet

Mike can you really can you really like how much time did you spend School motherfucker like how much time did you study nutrition this is nonsense talk you can get everything from a good dye what's a good diet tell me what a good diet is what are you getting from that good diet how you getting that vitamin B12 in high doses what do you do where you getting your see where you're getting your D3 what are you getting huh where you getting your essential fatty acids what's the what's a optimal level of essential fatty acids and they don't have a fucking clue what they're talking about you know they don't they there's so many doctors that go through their entire medical you know orthopedic surgeons or what have you they go through their entire medical school with like maybe four or five hours of nutrition research right I have to be careful what I say I work at the medical school but I do I love doctors don't get me wrong but we need them but we're not going to do surgery on ourselves right that said some doctors will listen to their patients and do research those are the great doctors that actually stay on top of things but it's really hard right they're already working 12 14 hours a day so let's show Fair

doctors + f to work within the insurance system I understand that there were their only problem that I have is when they say things like you get everything you need with a good diet you remember our Three Square meals a day yeah bullshit to make sure you follow the food pyramid eat a lot of grain right right over that well and don't eat eggs don't drink milk hilarious yeah eight margarine yeah hilarious what milk is a sketchy thing yeah quite honestly because you drinking this dead liquid it's been a modernized pasteurized and I find my body reacts very differently to raw milk than it does to milk that has been processed well I wonder if anyone studied the microbiome that might be helpful to it just makes sense that it's got all the enzymes in it it's all that's how the human being are a body any animals will send naturally process that milk yeah I guess it's mostly sterile yeah but yeah I use whole milk in my day it's surprising right because I'm trying to avoid calories but the benefits in The Taste and how I feel

yogurt I make myself out of whole milk that it make yogurt yeah one of your wild man why don't you buy it you're so short on time what you doing making you making your own butter to get one them Turner's yeah well you know we all have our Hobbies one of my hobbies that's a cool no here's the problem I got so hooked on this type of yogurt which I first made for my son trying to help him he has a weight and eating issue I was thinking that would help him but I got addicted to the yogurt and so's everyone in my family now so if I don't make the yogurt they're like Dad where's the yogurt oh no kidding so how do you do it it's really easy there you get packets there's three different packets you rip them open put him in a whole milk shake it and stick it in the the oven on defrost for 24 hours really on the in the oven so what is defrost like when temperatures at around that's 35 Celsius whatever that is 95 so 90 95 so your

seemed like a dutch oven or something like that when it's regular oven I meant but I mean in terms of the pan that you put well what you mean what's the bottle yes it's just a large a mason jar okay and just heating it up with the probiotics inside of it yeah bacteria inside it it just starts to coalesce yeah and I've perfected it the first few ones were we're not great but now it works every time and actually the protocol on the internet said you have to boil it measure the temperature get it all right sterilize it and I just pour it straight in shake it stick it in it's fine really yeah so far huh did you ever get it analyzed nope you're a scientist you want to send it a little cup of it to somebody or hey man take a look at this what are you worried about I don't know about where your area I'm not worried at all I'm just curious as to whether like how potent it is you know there's various levels of acidophilus that you're getting from from yogurt yeah I research it before I started and this is a company that makes

a yogurt that it that matches a healthy microbiome the only one I'm aware of that's great and you use whole milk you don't use raw milk right but I don't have good access to raw milk what do you get it let go health food store like Sprouts or you know something like that I tried um yeah I think they have it at Erawan maybe Whole Foods has it that's like it's really tricky because you that's not even legal in some places to have whole milk in fact people been arrested and and just locked up for having whole milk yes good luck Google that because it's pretty Preposterous when you think about how easy it is to buy whiskey right and then think about people buying whole milk that whole milk is apparently for some people it might have to something to do with skirting FDA regulations and things along those lines it gets very complicated for sure and then there's are the reason

for homogenisation pasteurization is obviously Health right we're trying to protect people in also its shelf-life it stays on the Shelf longer but I've definitely bought it there's a small what does it call it a small group food group raw food Club they had they were rated in 2011 hmm for sharing raw milk or something the latest raw milk raid an attack on food Freedom federal agents organize a sting operation against a tiny raw milk Buying Club and ignore more serious food safety concerns yeah like Twinkies I mean how hard is it look you can I'm sure get poop food poisoning from spoiled milk right but isn't spoiled milk yogurt ultimately right well his what I do with food if it stinks I don't eat it good move bro I think milk you smell pretty quickly if it's going bad this involved unwashed room temperature eggs

the other count unwashed room temperature eggs a storage method Rossum members prefer by the way when we had chickens for these nasty coyotes killed all my chickens we would store our eggs at room temperature we put them in a bowl we would wash the outside of the egg and put them in a bowl and they would sit on the counter and I was eating them all day long

nothing happened healthy as fuck Asians dump gallons of raw milk and filled a large flat bed with the seized food including coconuts we seize your fucking coconuts watermelons and Frozen buffalo meat what the fuck like what is this agents who are these assholes that are getting paid government money from our taxes to steal frozen frozen meat Jesus Christ Christopher Darden who helped prosecute OJ Simpson appeared at Stuart's arraignment just in time to lower his bail all right so Christopher Darden is out there helping people

whenever gross it's just a growing I mean I don't think you should you know we should somehow or another find out

whether there's a way to test if this raw milk is fresh enough for people to eat but if it is people live on farms have been drinking raw milk since the beginning of time it's normal and healthy taste better it's way easier for you to digest like I get a little weird when I drank like straight like if I have milk and cookies which I love I don't know what made us cookies and milk hmm I might be full of shit here now I'm thinking about it the cookies might be what's messing with my my stomach I don't think so though because you get this feeling from the milk like little book it's probably both now that I think about it both well in France you get the the unpasteurized cheese yes my friend I don't Mark used to bring it back in his luggage he would smuggle back for a rock lat you know what that is yeah it's like a dish that he would make with meat and cheese yeah that's good but I don't hear the French dying in droves they seem to be

as fuck and then I was fat right yeah their bread is better they have bread that is not from there there they don't have modern wheat so the wheat that they have is not engineered to have more complex glutens and higher yield like we do so we don't buy bread in my family my wife makes it oh nice yeah and so we started oh yeah what a Sourdough the yeast is even wild she got that from Belgium friend of ours hunger hung some samhitas what is it some some stuff in a tree collected the yeast brought it back to the US and really share it with us caught it like caught some yeast only put some dough wet dough up in a tree and left it there for a few days and caught this wild yeast up in the wall Elgin Forest were apparently it only occurs he claims but we have the best bread at home it's crunchy you know you crank on it you break it open I mean I'm trying to avoid carbs and this is the hardest thing when you get home in the breads just come out of the oven why

avoiding carbs well I'm trying to keep my blood glucose levels steady not Spike too much that's pretty clear that that's not healthy and just eating a bunch of bread will be a good way to spike that one of the things that I've heard about the French and Italians in general is that they eat their bread with either butter or olive oil and that these healthy fats that you're getting along with the bread is one of the reasons why it doesn't have the same sort of Health hit and then this the complex glutens you know the engineered wheat that we have it when you eat pasta in Italy it has a different effect on your body just feels different yeah exactly so there are number of people that I know maybe people you know to who are putting glucose monitors on their arm here to see what foods they react to Radha Patrick's been doing this for a while and actually asked her what about what's the worst Food you've seen in your body to spike

because she said grapes avoid grapes really yeah avoid grapes yeah I wish I hadn't asked her that so now I don't know what counterintuitive right you think you're eating healthy when you have me some fruit as I said what was the biggest surprise she said potatoes aren't so bad well there is a thing that you could do with potatoes right where you boil them and then cool them off and then reheat them and apparently has a profound effect on the way it impacts your blood sugar levels that it's far healthier when you there's some sort of process see if you can find out what that process was who explain that to us do you remember was it Rhonda probably was 99% of my nutrition knowledge I get from run it back Patrick but I believe it's something to do with the way the potato reacts to being boiled and then chilled and then reheat it again something about it so the starches are less yeah they labelled somehow somehow

and it has a much more healthy effect on your blood glucose levels and doesn't Spike you in the way that just a straight-up baked potato would it would be coming from Chris Kresser aha even that's the other 1% my nutrition knowledge it's probably not even probably like 6040 potatoes for gut health and weight loss the potato hack says potato intervention is a short-term tool the check the reactivity of the got to resistant starch reset the hedonic system create metabolic flexibility resolve inflammatory conditions and provide the patient with an empowerment tool to increase the fat loss of their dietary plan it's not meant as a standalone diet but rather a dietary tool to decrease hunger blah blah blah blah blah blah blah scroll up there so we can find out what the fuck that the potato hack is explanation poor potato has been maligned did you do here's an explanation functional medicine Chris Crusher on The Joe Rogan show ha right here

that scroll up magic of this plan Lisa it's clinical effect efficacy is the amount of resistant starch resistant starch has a type of starts that is indigestible to us but feeds our microbiome on a potato is heated and then cooled a significant amount of its starch is retrograded into resistant starch this means that the effect on blood sugar is greatly dampened the potato can be even be reheated and it will still retain its resistant starch content the nourishment to our gut biome and the subsequent metabolic benefits cannot be overstated I've seen this be crucial in some patients who have stalled on a low carb or keto eating plan but still have significant body fat left to lose historically resistant starch would have been present in most Roots tubers unripe bananas plantains Etc but is often devoid in our current

mmm Chris Crasher in the house

yeah well you go so when I was in Africa you reminded me they eat a lot of blueberries and so these colored foods are also good to eat the Resveratrol comes on when yams dark things right well yeah leafy vegetables but also our fruits that are very colored colorful so why is that why is that well I'm glad you asked the so we have this idea called zener mises and that's a terrible name for something that's quite simple and that is that these molecules from plants are produced to make the plants healthier these are stress response chemicals and if you stress plans they turn colored turn on a UV lamp or put a plant in the sign it'll turn reddish you know those are stress chemicals to survive and I believe that we've evolved to sense those chemicals in our food supply so we're attracted to juicy red tomatoes as opposed to pale Tomatoes but not just a traveler to it I think we're attracted to it because they're colorful but what our bodies get out of

is that these chemicals go into our bloodstream and they turn on our defenses against disease to survive why is that good why did that evolve or potentially evolve its I think because when our food supply was stressed we need to get ready for adversity because we probably run out of food and if you're a bird or some other dumb animal Dahmer animal or even a yeast cell how you going to know if your food supplies going to run out you've got it no it chemically so these chemicals are a heads up that adversity is coming so if you eat a lot of these chemicals through say red wine which is stress grapes and other things like that blueberries these chemicals they're not probably not working mainly through antioxidant activity they giving us this stress heads up isn't there there's that's a controversial thing the red wine thing correct like whether or not read bond is the the actual compound of Resveratrol is where we're getting our benefit from because it's apparently a very small amount of Resveratrol

on what red wine yeah sure it's not really controversial except when people exaggerate and say that it's all Resveratrol Resveratrol is a component of dozens of healthy molecules in red wine course certain which is good for a number of things there's a whole bunch of polyphenols they called and so Resveratrol is part of that cocktail what is this also the fermentation process because we're talking about grapes themselves with the high sugar content actually being something we should avoid right so don't eat the grapes but wine if you don't have too much of it will have a concentrated amount of these Zeno hermetic molecules like Resveratrol and course it is this an apparent in red wine it's really only in red wine white wine which is for chicks right not as healthy not as healthy actually I'm afraid that's a joke for my friend Bud yeah you'll get in trouble my phone no it's just for my friend but he always loves white wine I'm like that's four checks bro I'm joking folks just jokes

don't get a touchy yeah so you don't need to so that when we treated mice with resveratrol they were immune to the effects of a high fat diet Western diet and we've traced this down to a single genetic pathway that we work on these sirtuins I talked about these NAD responsive Pathways really so they were immune to eating shitty food like the negative aspects of eating shitty food yeah that this was 2003 that's why it hit all the newspapers because it was the first molecule that was safe and could mimic the effects of fasting or caloric restriction without actually having to be hungry wow and what kind of dose are you giving these mice it was equivalent of about

the milligrams a day in a human Okay so is 1/4 of what you recommend people take right I don't recommend people take anything what okay what'd you take Ryan let's just say that yeah I know recommendation sorry folks yeah I'm taking a high dose because I've looked at human clinical data and I think that a higher dose may be required to have an even better effect on longevity but the results are very clear when we opened up these mice maybe I shouldn't have said that when we examine those lines carefully put them to put them to sleep for scientific purposes it was clear that they were healthier now there was still fat that was interesting there was still fat so we figured the experiment didn't work but their arteries were cleaned their livers were like a healthy lean young Mouse and when we looked at their metabolism it was like a younger Mouse so let me ask you this then because your you take statins if you are fairly convinced because the research of the positive

if it's of Resveratrol in healthy aging and healthy metabolism and their arteries why you taking statins because you know that there are some negative effects of statins

right well if I had five lifetimes I'd probably try that experiment but okay I don't want to you just don't want to risk it yeah is there enough I mean have you looked through the papers the research papers on statins and a little bit there is some correlations with dementia and the brain does need cholesterol so that might be one of the problems is your dad on statins yes really we have a whole bunch of genes that predispose 23 meet said basically give up now wow it's pretty horrible so yeah if I make it to 80 I'm doing pretty well

interesting because Bourdain when he was alive he had made a decision to take statins versus change his diet this is before he got into Jutsu when he was traveling the world and eating the finest foods and drinking wine to excess every night and join the shit out of it you know we had a conversation about his like I would rather eat well said I'd rather eat well and take these drugs because I know the side effects I know they're dangerous so then we have a conversation maybe two years later he gets really into Jiu-Jitsu his wife at the time was in to Jujitsu and you know she had convinced him to try it and he went and tried it and immediately got hooked and he has or he had a addictive background you know first was heroin and you know some other unfortunate substances and then cigarettes for a while he quit that and then Jiu-Jitsu became his new addiction and he

ripped I mean he really at I think he started training at 58 or 59 started and then by the time he was 62 you know like full six-pack was crazy to see like I'm like look at you man this is nuts like this is an image of him walking down the street and I mean he has no shirt on and he's fucking shredded got off all the statins got off everything has changed his whole his issue with cholesterol yeah good on him just through daily exercise yeah I should try good yeah a little bit of shame that I haven't been able to get off the statins but they just scare me man I'm just read too many things well you know I could have gone off them when I was on a really lean diet I tried this Okinawa diet from Okinawa Okinawa yeah so just fish mostly and and and tofu hmm yeah how'd that go I was great but then I had kids oh you can't feed tofu two kids if we do right you can have separate food just for

I'm not going to snow although I understand yeah but your yeah that's the thing is like you are so limited by time you know your you have such an involved research schedule and life schedule and travel schedule I'm a pretty average guy I'm not militant about what I eat I try my best every day to do what I can but the Statin thing I just haven't had the chance to do it but was virtual I don't think is sufficient to keep these cholesterol levels down so combination so far when you first got on the how long you been on statins since 29 oh wow so you really have been on them for 21 years not only that super-high dose so it's 80 milligrams what's a normal dose 10 whoo that's crazy yeah my doctor wanted the best of Harvard looked at my genetics and said you're fucked yeah I got all the wrong --jeans these tiny little lipoprotein particles the ones that oxidized so the fact that my arteries apparently cleaners is good good news for me well that's good

those like I said look good oh thanks mean obviously there's a lot of biodiversity when it comes to human beings and some things that are bad for others

good for some well I'm not losing my mind yet still pretty functional like when it starts slipping away what you going to do ask your wife or your friends or what do you do yeah what am I gonna do well if your dad's want to tell you yeah that could happen Mark right he's 85 yeah my dad was changing my diapers yeah David you asked me the same question three times in a row the way it's going that could definitely happen well do you get a lot of sleep I do now now that I'm monitoring it yeah what's a lot of sleep for you between six and seven hours oh that's good dr. Matthew Walker was a guy that I had on my podcast who study sleep and he was fascinating and it changed my entire opinion about what's necessary there's a direct correlation between limited amounts of sleep and Alzheimer's direct correlation he's like it's one of the most established links that you can see between a disease and a Cause

yes quoting it's an association I always want you know I'm a scientist always have to be skeptical sure as to whether if you're predisposed Alzheimer's you have trouble sleeping and you start taking Ambien now people say well Ambien and Alzheimer's are correlated well yeah maybe it's the other way around yeah yeah me and scare the shit out of me you don't take that do tiny bits oh that's tough nuts because people take it and they say things they don't know what they're saying right well the recommended dose at least it used to be for men is 10 milligrams which is massive I nibble on I'd take maybe a milligram just to nod off if I'm desperate which I like hmm But yeah I picked doctors many I know say the 10 milligrams is probably too high but check with your doctor yeah well Matthew Walker says stay the fuck away from that stuff period he said you're not getting real sleep anyway you're not going in through full sleep cycles you just drugging your brain into a state of unconsciousness probably 10 milligrams that make sense for me because I'm

during it I know that I'm getting good deep sleep have you tried other like melatonin things along those lines - oh so not effective not as much sometimes melatonin with milligram of ambient is necessary but what a big change for me has been just don't stay up watching TV get the screens off whether yeah classes they really help yeah the screens watching those goddamn screens before you go to bed I love doing it though I love watching TV show before I go to sleep it's probably the worst time to do it though right yeah it is it really I mean you can watch the shows just put the yellow glasses on you know the blue light-emitting blocking glasses one of my sponsors movement watches they have the blue light-emitting glasses need to get those uh blocking or omitting blocking like blocking yeah

yeah not admitting how can a glass of it you know blocking blue light-emitting sickness yeah well you can have blue light-emitting glasses to that'll be good really well for the middle of winter oh if you get depressed here what were you live there is no real middle of winter here buddy we're used to you used to live to yeah not too far from where I worked yeah it's pretty tragic middle of winter I wanna kill myself so that's seasonal affective disorder that's a sure yeah yeah yeah because I'm working indoors I don't see Sun for months well that gray sky when it's every day is gray over and over again you see no real sky for so long it's so weird it yeah I Miss Australia for that reason mmm I get reinvigorated if I come out to LA and his blue sky you really feel different oh for sure there's a reason why the fucking billion people out here but what is your strategy for mitigating the impact of seasonal affective disorder

what I do I try to go outdoors and get some some sun in my eyes when I can take vitamin D office sure lots of a different eye seems to have helped make a difference yeah so your vitamin D that it's questionable whether it's as healthy as people thought it was that said I think it worse doesn't hurt you some people do Sun lamps for that reason they'll go into a tanning booth for the reason right they will actually found this season I went to the sauna in the cold shock bath and that really helped a lot I don't know if it's related but I needed to shock my body in the middle of winter if you just sitting by a fire and barely moving around I just felt like it was a sack of shit and so yeah a lot of people get fat in the winter to that's another thing they just they get indoors because it sucks outside they never want to do anything and then you dealing you're dealing with the depression of being a little bit heavier to off the shore and then you drinking violent violent kind of stuff but it's all

shock your body get your body out of complacency and our lifestyle everything we do everything we buy everything on TV that's being advertised to make your life better is shorten your lifespan by making it easier for our bodies to exist you don't want that you got to stress it yeah what other things do you think that people should be doing on a daily basis that most folks aren't well we covered a lot so there's the the be hungry get the exercise there's all sorts of exercises which are good but the main ones are stretching and running and lifting okay cold and hot we've talked about

and then there's the supplements that mimic the benefits of those plus probably more things that's my that's my regimen there's some other little tidbits that I put in my book which it's a laundry list of things that I found work for me but those are the main things we've covered this is sounds probably pretty boring but I'll say it again wear sunscreen for two reasons I mean you look better anyway not the probably young people care but we'll make a difference by the time you're our age but also because DNA damage does age you we think that it's breaking the chromosomes and that's the major driver of Aging that son will do that x-rays will do that maybe even airport scanners are certainly I'm not really a devotee of getting scanned I thought they were radio waves are there the millimeter and they don't penetrate very deeply so they're probably not too bad but I've looked into it's about the same radiation as you get on the flight and given that I'm doing

million miles a year I don't want to double the amount of exposure so when you go through that radio scanner then the more modern TSA scanners they give you the same amount of radiation as a flight because a flight gives you the same amount of reishi radiation as multiple x-rays right is it that other thing is that bad I believe it okay well let's look at this let's find out how much radiation do you get on a five hour flight and is it comparable to multiple x-rays because I believe that's what I read well the X-rays I can say definitively based on my research would Aid you agent issues what's it doing to you well it's breaking your chromosome and causing that clock that I was talking about earlier that biological clock to accelerate is there something you can do to mitigate that if you know you have to get an x-ray should you do something right afterwards potentially potentially you could take in a man which we've shown in mail in mice protect them against the effects of radiation and that's one of

things we've talked to NASA about for getting to Mars and back safely so when I'm on a flight I takes a man to man in the expectation that it's going to boost my body's ability to prevent those changes to the clock now is there a commercially available and a man that you would suggest if someone wants to purchase it somewhere well so I don't divulge company names and there's two reasons for that one is I haven't tested them so I actually literally don't know but the other is that I want to stay above The Fray and Mercer not get involved but it but there are if people want to go Google and go look online they can find commercially available nmn right so yet again I've got number of pages in the book on that so it's all laid out but open summary this part right here ladies and gentlemen look at that lifespan why we age why we don't have to

thank you sir that's my MPR voice yeah you can donate if you enjoy programming like this putting me to sleep that's what I do man something happened with people they thought to be intelligent you have to talk like you're ready to put people to sleep it's time to get sleepy anyway so the enemy man so there are people who selling it on the internet and just just to get the facts straight I don't sell anything I understand my name's all over the internet if you see my name with a company it's BS uh-huh beautiful that's good anyway so the nmn there are companies that sell it's more expensive than another molecule that related called NR or nicotinamide right beside which is also what the body can use to Boost energy levels and that's a little bit cheaper and they both been shown in animals to be to boost the sort of to ins and help those animals be healthier in old age and reverse some aspects of Aging like endurance loss of endurance that kind of thing

protect protect the I protect hearing as well so that we don't know if it works in humans that let's be honest we don't know if these things work but let's also be honest we know what's gonna happen if we don't do anything and that's not pretty either do you have any high hopes for things like crisper things where there's going to be genetic alterations and they are starting to do some experience you have a big smile on your face right now so I'll let you talk tell me what's up well so I'm a geneticist and I'm just down the hall from George Church who's in my department at Harvard and I'm a big believer in crisper in the sense that it will revolutionize medicine now right now explain it to people don't know which means so crispr is an acronym for basically a system that is from bacteria that they use to kill and destroy the DNA of invading organisms like a virus but we can now use that system

cut and change our own genomes it's basically a DNA cutting enzyme that doesn't cut randomly you can give it a bar code in the form of what's called RNA molecule that tells where that ends I will cut in the genome let's say you Joe Rogan have a terrible Gene that's causing heart disease we take this crispr system we say here's where you need to go to cut we can tell the enzyme to go and cut it put it into your cells it'll go cut it and destroy that enzyme and delete it and you can also use it to cut the gentleman and insert New pieces so you can both subtract and add DNA at will now not just randomly but what's important is you can tell it where to go and that's the big breakthrough

and they're doing some experiments on human beings I know there was something that they were doing beliefs somewhere in Asia if I remember correctly I believe it was China where they had done some manipulation to people to help prevent AIDS and in the process of doing so they may have boosted intelligence or the potential for intelligence which was so convoluted that my puny little brain can understand the study I was chose to go over the same paragraph like four or five times just try to figure out what the fuck they were saying am I making any sense yeah you are you are and that was a study that I don't believe it's being published but it's been reported right that he is his name is last name is he he took embryos and engineered them to delete ccr5 Gene which is required for HIV to infect cells now that was we can we most of us scientists think that that was

Reckless for the fact that first of all HIV isn't a huge risk in China to one in a thousand chance of getting HIV there are plenty of other things other things they that you could do that could be more helpful let's say why not mutate what's called PS canine to prevent heart disease which would probably have 50 percent to kill the boys a boy so anyway it wasn't the most risk benefit ratio modification that that's one thing but the other is we don't know what happens when you cut jeans in embryos does it have changes to the DNA clock did it accelerate their aging did it mess with other genes did it cut in other places and scrub those jeans we don't know that yet and so that's why the scientific Community had a negative reaction to it but what's interesting is that the scientific community and the Press has pretty much gone quiet on this

imagine if this happened during the bush era we have protesters all over the place it be outlawed and that hasn't happened I think it's because we live in a world with a 24-hour news cycle though but isn't that also because it's being if it wasn't during the bush world I mean where the protesters really take place if it was done here the thing about things that are done in China or overseas like huh it's like it's so far away like well it's keep an eye on them yeah that's true there is the fear that some countries going to engineer and army of supervillains I mean we have the technology to do that right now yeah we believe we understand how to slow aging there are genes that predispose you to to long life we could make

Offspring a family that would potentially live a lot longer but it's just something that can only be manipulated in embryos or in fetuses no now we can do it in adults actually those does it there are drugs that are in development to actually correct genetic diseases such as vision loss really do my eyes are gone I can barely read like print on a laptop I I need glasses to read my laptop all right so we just put up a study online on a site called bio archive anyone can go there and see it just Google my name and bio archive B IO R XY V reason that's interesting is that what we're showing is in mice at least we can reverse the age of the retina and restore the vision of old mice

what do I have to do

well I think you have to blow me a few more days hey come on man well lose your job let you got to let me Crack those kind of jokes sorry David I was joking I started it folks yeah it's not his fault what so what would someone I mean is this going to be available to the general public any time in our lifetime I have tried my best we're hoping to do clinical trials starting in two years from now really and what would you do in those clinical trials also we'd reprogram the I to be young again so we now know that there's a set of genes called reprogramming factors also known as yamanaka factors that are from named after this Japanese fellow who won the Nobel Prize in 2012 these factors are used all over the world even probably in high schools to reprogram skin cells are the cells to be what we call pluripotent stem cells these are cells that can be used to make new organs or you blood cells but what people hadn't tried until recently was can you do this in a living animal

or just going to mess it up and what we found out is that if you do it the wrong way you mess up the animal and it'll die but what we've shown for the first time in this paper is you can do it in a safe way and not only that reverse the clock make the cells young and restore how they work and get back vision and what's the methodology right good question so that the current method is using a virus that's on the market these are called aavs adeno-associated virus has you put them in the eye they're already patients getting this in the on the market really yes Park Therapeutics is an example of a company that is curing genetic diseases in the eye with viruses or in a new world most people don't know about it wow so what is the company again Jamie we have this spark genetic engineering but there are chambers already got it look at that bam motherfucker Jimmy Vernon the house so these folks are already doing this to people so is this for people that are sort of desperate and they'll try

something experimental right well the desperate in the sense that there's no other choice no other cure I mean we're now curing genetic diseases someone was just treated and cured of sickle cell anemia that's phenomenal and that you know I learned that that comes from malaria right that was the idea that people were the resistance to malaria was such that trait from people that evolved in the area where they would get malaria was also what led to people getting sickle-cell correct correct so that I learned that from Tiffany haddish by the way amazing Tiffany shout-out Tiffany that lux turn a stuff

is this something that someone like me to take right now

no not easily your doctor would need to prescribe it and so if you did describe it I could literally get Vision back well this is not the same technology that I'm talking about it from my last has inherited retinal diseases our commitment to our IR DS this is Gene replacement what not reprogramming the body to be young but it's the same virus that we'd use to correct so they're using this for certain retinal diseases or they're correcting it now how is this bacteria fixing your vision well the virus is adjust our age to get the genes into the cells that's all and that these are benign viruses they don't hurt you but there are carrier and maybe eventually we'll have other ways to do this but right now the virus is the best way and in the mice to restore the vision we have this 3 Gene combination of these yamanaka reprogramming genes we put them into the eye and then we turn them on with a drug in fact the same drug that I took when I was in Africa

go called doxycycline is the same drug we can feed to the mice turns on the reprogramming genes for a few weeks restores their Vision back to a young Mouse and then we just take away the doxycycline an antibiotic and the mice have the vision back and how long does it take for it starts deteriorating and we don't know yet but along that it's permanent

because the age of the cells is gone back those are young eyes again so you might have a whole full cycle from like 20 or 10 to 40 years old again that's the future that you'll get a delivery of this virus you'll take the antibiotic for a few weeks be fully rejuvenated and the doctor says come back in a couple of decades will fix you again I will give you some antibiotic and a couple of decades but then it gets really weird if you have a if you engineer your children to have this system if that ever happens let's imagine it could we could do this right now with technology and you have people engineered to be able to be reversed in their age or let's say the have an accident and their optic nerve gets damaged or they lose their hearing from a bomb or something that spinal injury give him a dose and IV of antibiotics and they become just like an embryo they can rejuvenate they can regrow their optic nerve regrow their spine fixed back back like new the the vision thing do you think that we're going to

see that in our lifetimes mean is this something that you're going to see that's going to be available to the general public well so so I've got an entrepreneur as we discussed before and also one of the companies that I've started is exactly that raised money to be able to make this virus we're making it now takes a few million bucks and we'll hopefully with the fda's approval injected into people's eyes now first it won't just be guys like you first of all we have to go into an area where it's FDA approval which is a disease like glaucoma which is pressure in the eye or macular degeneration that's our first goal but then if it's safe why not do all those wow that's incredible what about people with injuries Yeah well yeah you could theoretically put it into the spinal cord or give it give an IV but people with eye injuries oh for sure it's one of the things we also did in this paper that we put online is we pinched the optic nerve and what normally happens is it just a grades I mean nerves don't go

right unless you're a baby mouse or a baby human but we made those cells so young that the optic nerve grew back to the brain Wow first time that's been able to I know a guy have it from fighting he's got a detached retina detached so bad that his vision and his right eyes extremely poor shout out to Michael Bisping do you think that that's something that inside of his lifetime they could see something use of this technology that could regenerate his I well I get a lot of emails I'm not really trying to over promise anything what I think is possible is that initial it'll be used for disease or chronic disease then it'll be used for injuries like like that but fresh injuries I think it's probably likely to work better if it's fresh I don't know where this technology is going I can imagine a lot we can all imagine that you could get Vision back and people walking again but that's where this technology is going we only so I described the discovery in the book as actually what

what happened while I was writing the book is Will making these discoveries and they were remarkable and so I wrote them down in the book as we went along so people can see how it feels to be a scientist to make these discoveries but it's only been a year or less that we've known about this so imagine 50 years from now what we can do even 10 it's going to be a remarkable future it's very exciting now what kind of a timeline are you anticipating for bringing this to you know people with injuries well injuries already we have a study plan for spinal injury in mice and that will probably know the results in not less than a year and then we could as fast as the FDA allows us go into a clinical trial now is the same scenario applicable for people Spiner in spinal injuries as Vision like people that have a more recent spinal injury where the more likely candidates than people that have had older spinal injury I think so that would just be my guest that it's easier to fix a recent recently damaged system

thing in the body that's fresh but I wouldn't rule out anything when we when we first discovered this the experiment was to have a fresh injury the pinching of the optic nerve but then I said to my student why don't you just try old mice and he said come on Old mice you kidding me how's that going to work just try it just try it I saw he did it and in collaboration with another Lab at Harvard so that they're the experts and so Bruce Cassandra is his name so Bruce called me professor at Harvard is 10:30 at night they just got off a plane he said David you won't believe it I didn't believe it I just looked at the data it frickin worked wild mice are seeing again he said I want to go down to the FDA and tell them about it because right now I diseases typically all you can do is slow them down and here's actually a reversal of lost function knows this apply to injuries as well do you believe old injuries or just old macular degeneration we'd haven't tried all the injuries now Michael we've done glaucoma which is an old injury mmkay so theoretically what we could do is at least with the existing

nodes if they're still attached we should be able to rejuvenate those and make them work better because he has some vision is I so yeah so that's possible that that makes more sense very little very limited in one eye yeah well we'll have to see interesting because you didn't think it was going to work on the old mice I did but no tested wow crazy well we're literally reversing not just the effects of Aging but aging itself so if I gave you those retinas for a little retinas here you go Joe and you're a scientist you could look at that retina and analyze it molecular lie measure its clock and you'd say those are young guys and you wouldn't know the difference now do you feel like this kind of technology is also going to be applied to see people skin because you know one of the things that for women it's devastating when they develop wrinkles you know they fucking hate it men get a few wrinkles the kind of look distinguished you know but man when women get wrinkles they freaked the fuck out they don't like it yeah we're going to try it on

on aging on the skin though you know when I talk about making people walk again potentially mmm it's probably a higher priority for sure but I think it's feasible so there's a lab at the Salk Institute Juan Carlos Belmonte who may win the Nobel Prize for his work on this in 2016 and a couple of years since he's been showing that it doesn't just rejuvenate old mice it actually is also rejuvenating the skin if he puts it on a wound that's in an old mouse that Mouse will heal it will heal better now that doesn't prove wrinkles but it does prove the skin can be rejuvenated as well so the could be possibly some sort of a treatment to scan maybe a re-injuring like of you there's this thing that they do I think it's called a vampire facial of you ever heard of that they take platelet-rich plasma and then they micro needle your entire face and then they somehow another apply this platelet-rich plasma to the areas that have been Mike

needles and it has some sort of an effect in increasing collagen and elasticity of the skin and tightening of the skin we've heard of this I've heard it for hay loss I didn't realize people get it all over their face or hair loss is well they're doing it sounds painful so to me it makes sense that it might work the plate The PRP is it's called is full of factors that we know some of these are rejuvenating in mice you know this the system where you can hook up an old mouse and a young Mouse circulation yes and you get Rejuvenation there are factors that many of which we haven't discovered or identified that exists that you can rejuvenate and I would bet that they're working most likely through this reversal of the clock and so one of the things we're doing in my lab is taking what are called exosomes which exist in these preparations and seeing if they reverse the clock I've had axes ohms shot into injuries for stem-cell pretty Watchers yes yes did work that make sense yeah

and a full-length rotator cuff tear that's completely gone it's a maybe what's going on is you free programs your body there yes well there's it's a weird thing exosomes and stem cells and there's a new product called Wharton's jelly that's also very effective and potent because there's not a lot of papers on these things it's all you know the research on is some of it's a little shaky but the advocacy at least anecdotal efficacy is pretty substantial and I'm one of those pieces of anecdotal evidence I've had a bunch of shots I just whenever I get injured like shoot it up yeah well your listeners may not know about exorcisms so exosomes a little compartments that are pinched off from cells and put into the body and communicate between cells across so your liver can communicate with your brain yeah for exams and we then these little car goes there are things that we just discovering little proteins RNA and they're full of goodies and drug companies are being built on these X's ohms

yes I'm glad you brought up the study of the old mice and the young mice where they put the blood in the old mice and then the old my started behaving like young mice and the blood of the old mice the young mice and the young my started behaving like they were tired because there's a company in Northern California that's supposedly doing this with humans where they're injecting people with the blood of old people so our young people rather some sort of transfusion not anymore not anymore they had a business well my understanding is the FDA sent my letter said stop it that's it just a little bit salt eggs oh yeah you don't want to go to the next down the street and change your name oh I got another letter move down the street change my name I think that's risky is it check to see if their companies under alcaraz I do not remember the name of it but I know I remember they were erroneously linked to Peter teal and then Peter denied that he's ever used that you know the billionaire

under PayPal who I've met is a wonderful man they erroneously someone just some story linked the said that he's at getting it he's like actually shut the fuck up no I'm not don't say that I've never done it not doing it so it was one of those things where there was a lot of Legend to it because of these my studies he's my studies get people super excited about the idea that all you have to do is get young people's blood so you get a bunch of young people with healthy disease-free drug-free donating their plasma doing their blood for x amount of dollars a quart right you have a blood boy okay so yeah blood boy hey man when I was young I needed some cash I was healthy come on regenerate that shit yeah you know take quart of blood I get it back in a couple hours I think it might work it's just that we don't know the consequences and the fda's job is to protect us yeah just like they're protecting us from raw milk bunch of pussies just recently shut down about a month ago I missed the boat

could have been in there man but if you did that that's something you have to do on a routine basis right it's not like something you do one One-Shot probably give you a little boost for a short amount of time yeah well that's what's different about this reprogramming you do it once you come back easily yeah the eyeball thing is very enticing to me because it's so weird watching my eyes deteriorate like slowly but surely I'm watching it happen it's really it sucks and it's a short time you get an older man yeah age-related macular degeneration to seems pretty standard except my friend cam Haynes that motherfucker he's 52 years old he could see Lacey like 2018 Vision at 52 it's crazy see anything I dropped my phone in the ground is like I you got a crack he saw it from like I'm where where's the crack like I'm trying to look at in lisak right there and I put reading glasses on like son of a bitch like how the fuck did you see that he saw it from like where you are like looking at the phone like that is crazy well said so

keep in touch are we will and yes if we get this on the market then uh-huh yeah yes turns out he has started up again as recent pretty recently but it's not being sold as young blood for plasma is just plasma so just give it a shot bro here's some just no promises we think want to go in there with me right after we do the cryotherapy creeping let's get some blood some young blood try doctors behind failed anti-aging blood clinic tries again we tried to ask him some questions but he was very evasive good for you sir duck and move do the old Muhammad Ali rope-a-dope

be like Pernell Whitaker sir yeah I hope he stays evasive I mean it's also like maybe it's nonsense maybe it's not would you like to do studies on people that are doing that and find out I mean well what they should do is measure the clock now that we yeah yes right yes that would be interesting but based on what we know about how it works with mice you think it's likely that there is some effect it's possible it's possible I like how you very cautious your real Professor I like that's right you're the real deal I'd like to keep my job dog you should stop making those blowjob jokes are funny that that is actually controversial two friends catches joke is there anything else that you think is promising that is on the horizon or that's being discussed or theoretical

Point yeah there's something that is really interesting and that's called Santa latex Santo Linux yeah so Senna latex are drugs that kill off senescent cells so what a senescent cells these are often called Zombie cells and what I think is World War Z yes a lot of zombies this podcast so it's senescent cells we've known for decades exist in the body but what was not clear was whether they cause aging now it's pretty clear from animal studies at least is that we get lots of these accumulating and that they do cause aging and one of the best experiments that was Donna from Mayo Clinic was to genetically delete the senescent cells that accumulated in an old mouse and it became young again or at least it delayed its aging by Fair bit now senescent cells are pretty rare there's not a lot of them but they cause Havoc because they don't just sit there in the body but they send out these inflammatory markers and they cause cancer we think so you want to get rid of these

um just I want to mention that in the biological clock when I was saying that the clock is part of the aging process what we think is that as we get older that and it's detailed a lot more in my book so if people read it they'll understand a lot more what I'm saying but this this clock is messing up the cells ability to be what it used to be what I mean by that let's take your eye in your retina your nerves are getting older but your nerves we think are losing the ability to read the nerve jeans so they're forgetting that their nerves so now they're starting to behave actually more like a skin cell and having a skin cell in your eyes not going to really work very well so that we call that epigenetic noise epigenetic aging reprogramming resets that so why is that interesting we think that the ultimate problem for the cell when it loses its total Identity or gets a long way towards that is it shuts itself down because it says fuck I don't even know what I am anymore

or not enough cylinder of skin cell donor liver cell sin s siness means stop dividing just sit there and tell the body come kill me okay so now they're putting out these panic factors there's a problem you get inflammation the problem is that as we get older the body's not very good at clearing out these cells they sit there and they wreak havoc yet inflammation we think it aging so getting back to Center latex these drugs are designed to be a pill or an injection into your joint to kill off these on B cells these innocent souls and theoretically rejuvenate the tissue and reverse that aspect of aging and that's another treatment like reprogramming that could be a One-Shot delivery and take you back a decade wow and how far away are we from seeing those much closer actually there's a few companies there's one called Unity there's one that I'm involved with in full disclosure called cinematic Therapeutics in Europe and they're in

least Unity is in clinical trials right now for osteoarthritis really now what about the company in Europe preclinical still Mouse wow so we looking at like a decade from the general public or well for Unity they hope not usually when you're in a phase two study which they're in it's a few years away if it works wow amazing stuff it's such a cool time to see all this medical Innovation technological and scientific innovation well my head's spinning yes crisper and then the reprogramming which is new stuff this is stuff that we dreamed of yeah but thousands of years and you know I don't think it's a dead end and it may not be as you know we're not going to go back to being 20 anytime soon that said I think we've we've had a major breakthrough the equivalent I like to use is we figured out how to fly where the Wright brothers right sisters we've got got include

is now my daughter will tell right non-binary people yeah so my daughter change our name by the way so what to aleksandr she was Madeline she didn't think that was appropriate why she's a tough chick she's a day and so I'm not allowed to call her she I don't think she doesn't want to be identified as one of the other interesting she's 16 she changed it at 11 whoa she's a tough girl you know in my family we tend to be Rebels and unfortunately it passed along I'm getting everything back fortunately or unfortunately well I guess I'll be proud of her but raising our the last few years have been pretty annoying at home can't say anything without the pr police she's that's hilarious it's a PC police are PR did I say PR I'm a PC yeah that's interesting

what was I saying about my daughter how about the name change yes I was it took about a name change I don't know you tell me Jamie's remember man we got a million people screaming a toaster yeah well you were talking about so many exciting things on the horizon yeah true yeah and so that it's just head spinning and so much is happening in our lifetime that I thought was just imaginary or for the future now the question is are we going to reap all the benefits of this or we're going to be the last generation to lead a normal human lifespan and I don't think we are I think that we already have things we can do in our daily lives just in lifestyle and in molecules you can take that give us a very good chance of living beyond what's naturally possible this is amazing and such it's so exciting and the last time you hear was about a year somewhere around that range yeah I mean and think about how many new things you have to discuss Now versus then it's really interesting man and I'm so happy that people like you

they're out there doing this it just it's so it's just so exciting and it's so it makes me very happy to know you're out there thank you sir so thank you and your book people can find out all this stuff in detail much more detail than get the two and a half hour conversation lifespan why we age and why we don't have to David a Sinclair PhD thank you brother always good time we'll do it again next year deal yes bye everybody thank you everyone for tuning into the show and thank you to our sponsors thank you to LegalZoom you can save 10% for a limited time on the things that you've been meaning to do with LegalZoom just go to legalzoom.com now and use the code Rogan at check out Legal Zoom where life meets legal thank you also to fucking square space square space ladies and gentlemen the host of Joe Rogan.com the place where I rest my what

that my internet presence I don't know where you find all my tour dates and podcast and all that jazz Squarespace is where we made that website and you can make a gorgeous website there to it's easy simple easy to use drag-and-drop user interface and gorgeous designer templates and you can try it for free head on over to squarespace.com Joe for a free trial then when you are ready to launch use the offer code Joe and you will save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain thank you to the motherfucking cash app kids the cash out the number one app in finance and the most flexible financial application you're ever going to find download the cash app right now from the app store or the Google Play Market get your cash card for free and of course when you download the cash app enter the referral code Joe Rogan all one word you will receive $10 and the cash app will send ten dollars to Justin Ren's fight for the Forgotten charity building Wells

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