What Was Early America Like Around the Revolutionary War? with Dr. Jessica Roney

Aug 13, 2019

How did we come to be the United States of America? What was life like in Philadelphia and Boston leading up to the Revolutionary War? Jonathan sits down with Dr. Jessica Roney, Associate Professor of History at Temple University to find out these answers and more.

Check out more from Temple University on Twitter: @TempleUHistory, @TULiberalArts, @TempleUniv.

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welcome to getting curious I'm Jonathan Bennett and every week I sit down for a 40 minute conversation with a brilliant expert to learn all about something that I'm very curious about on today's episode I'm joined by dr. Jessica Roni associate professor of history at Temple University I'm trying to figure out how did we come to be the United States of America what was life like in Philadelphia what was going on in Boston in the Revolutionary War and leading up to it

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welcome to getting curious this is Jonathan Van Ness and this week I'm so excited to welcome dr. Jessica Roni I nailed your last name right did you said it right yeah um so you are an associate professor at of history at Temple College of liberal arts but you have studied lots of really important things interesting things your expertise is got a lot of commas layer commas of expertise on us well I mean it is a general

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General over umbrella over at all is that I am an expert in early America so that could be kind of 1600 to 1820 and pretty large geography because early America's pretty fast right so basically you're an expert in early America and and my theme for today's episode is and I want to make this into like a new genre of getting curious episode you guys so get excited it's like what was it like to live in Philadelphia in the in the turn of the

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the like when America became America which really the Revolutionary War was from 1771 six one two you know you could say five which is when the Battle of Lexington is or 76 which is when the cons the 76 yes of course for some reason I feel like it was 71 to 76 I don't know why I do that well 72 is when the Boston Tea Party was so maybe yes maybe you're thinking like the protest okay so okay yeah so rewinding so we had cut you know the people

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come and everything was going down and the there was unrest prior to the revolution obviously because there was a whole like no taxation without representation and there are 13 colonies there are 26 colonies what what yeah in 1772 there was 26 Colony yeah this is the thing is that the way American history is taught is were only taught about the 13 that became the states but there were 26 Canada was part of the British Empire Nova

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Asha was a separate Colony Bermuda which is still a British colony the Bahamas all throughout the Caribbean and then Florida was actually two different British colonies East and West Florida so there were 26 colonies and the question of why the 13 that rebelled did and why the 13 that didn't didn't is a really interesting question like Georgia was not on board at the beginning in 74 which is the first time that they had a Continental Congress and everyone came together Georgia could have easily said you know what

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like no like they're there it's a slave economy it's dangerous to up the have upheaval whatever Florida did not decide to go either one of them so you know Florida in both cases decided not to go yeah I mean Florida was a really new English colony they had only gotten it in the last war the Seven Years War which was from 1754 217 lat honey so she is so Florida was around there was people there are settlers in Florida Florida is the first European permanent settlement it was Spanish not not English but it's the first permanent ink

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European settlement sort of on the Eastern Seaboard really I've yeah st. Augustine oldest oldest on the Seaboard of European there are much older settlements of course of Native Americans including cities so oh there were okay because that's actually like a whole other well that's like a whole other thing too because it's like I was thinking you know things were going down it's like the oppression and like the removal of indigenous like or the oppression removal of Native Americans was going on like before the Revolution yeah like ever since people arrive yeah and

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was it ever nice like were they ever nice that were we ever nice to each other what no I mean it's a compliment which is not from a Native American perspective that like they like from us like I'm assuming that we were the dick no no I mean well yes but the just to be clear we were the text yes he's so many layers to the question like Native American is not a group Native American is an umbrella term there are lots of different groups within that and they fought each other to so when Europeans came its becomes at least a triangular conflict or

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you know dodecahedron I don't even know all these different sides of people who are fighting for their own cause like the Iroquois did not feel any kind of common cause with the Shawnee for example like there's there's not there's no sense where Native American we should Ally together against Europeans in the same way Europeans are fighting each other so the initial colonies there's Dutch there's french there's English their Spanish they're kind of fighting each other they're all fighting the Native Americans Native Americans are all fighting the Europeans and each other so it's just this

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very very messy conflict that's not to take away that the Europeans were in fact trying to displace you know in a way that is different from the conflicts or happening among Native Americans they are trying to displace the trying to say well you're not farming the land and so you don't have a right to it and so we get to take it and this is exact was that the legal was part of it yeah if you don't improve the land that's their word improve then you have a natural right to it but it's not as good as my right to come in and put a fence around it and farm it and you don't really get to

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so in 1700 s your your ability to create Agriculture and a classic European sense is what gave you the rights the quote rights to because when we actually I just did an episode of getting curious about the way that the United States displaced food sources and Native American cultures and and how that in how those repercussions are going onto like going on now but that was what they were doing was like you

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they're their way of thinking of farming or are using natural resources just not how you know European it's not like well there's another component to it which is that the people doing the farming and most Native American communities are women and so that's not how European's do farming men do most of the farming women might Garden they might help but men are in charge of the sort of plowing and the the majority of the farming so they come in and they see well there's no what the men are just not farming so there must not be farming like they just

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or the women and it's ironic because they actually do know that the women Farm but they just like but they don't mass-produce stuff the way that like we I'm guessing they would look like they follow the lamb like they picked the gorget whatever we need to I don't need to whatever getting away from that okay so but basically so there's 26 colonies and so Florida has East and West Florida and it was mostly like Spanish and English colonies within yeah so it's by the time the revolution happens part of the reason it didn't Rebel is it it's only about 13 years that

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been in British control at that point so there is a British population there but there's a much larger or there's still a Spanish population and a much larger indigenous populations so so Florida decides not to be part they were invited so is Canada like everybody was invited oh they were oh yeah so to the First Continental Congress can't all of the all those places were invited even the Bermuda ones yeah you know they would like they would have liked them all to be part of it and when they were thinking we could have all maybe been in country together this is what they were thinking John Adams you like Drew up a plan

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Lan of like what the new United States was going to look like they weren't calling it that yet they were figuring out a name still but for him it was going to be everything all British possessions in the Western Hemisphere would be part of this new thing and when they wrote their first Constitution called The Articles of Confederation it actually has a sort of pre-certification for Canada anybody else who wants to come in sort of has to go through a process but Canada they're like you're already in just all you have to do is like sign on the line you're good but that isn't still up for nothing they discontinued

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Constitution that replace that one but oh so the and Canada was like no thank you so they never wanted to they were never trying to play now they were not into it at all got it so that was all kind of happening the 26 colonies and then we had our first consider our first Continental Congress was 74 here in Philly it was so 74 and Billy but the Boston Tea Party was in 72 right so there's kind of like a general sense of like ill Britain like why

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I don't we like like so basically we were kind of like and like a Puerto Rico relationship with them then like we had a representative in Congress but we didn't get a vote or something I'm it with Britt like ya know so this is part of the issue when when the Colonists came they sort of had various agreements with the King never with Parliament with the King and they set up their own governments and they said okay our government relates directly to the king not to Parliament Parliament can't make laws that affect us so when Parliament met laws

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you're going to tax you directly that's when the colonists said no that's not that's not part of our deal so they pass a law putting a tax on all these things in the colonists say we're not going to buy those things and so this is the first Americans actually invented the boycott boycott is a an American invention the idea that you will not buy things to pressure a political system in a particular way just to rewind we had an agreement with that boy from him the king from Hamilton that whiny King King

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George there you can George and King George the third and so he we had a thing with your Parliament we were poor to you directly so we'll still be your subjects or whatever but your Parliament doesn't make laws for us but then the problem was like well we're going to tax you we were like well you can't because we don't report to you right and so they the king sided with the parliament exactly they actually sent a something called the Olive Branch Petition directly to King George that was like these people are Parliament is messing with us and that's not the deal we're supposed to be directly with you and George the third did two things that really pissed off the colonies one

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ignore the petition he's like no parliament's right second his family's from Germany originally he's the third generation of that family to be king but they were from Germany anyway he he hired a bunch of German mercenaries and the moment the colonists heard that he had gone out and hired foreigners Germans mercenaries that he was going to send to the colonies to subdue them that was that what would they subdue what do you mean well like that he was gonna send soldiers to come and you know fight his own people that he was taking he's

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to be my king it's like a it's hard to get it how deep emotionally deepest relationship was like this is supposed to be your father figure for the whole country your father figure and your father figure has just gone out and hired mercenaries from a foreign country to come and shoot it you if you don't do what you're supposed to do so people who have been like I don't know I don't want the taxation but I don't think these Rebels have it right you know maybe we can be more moderate the moment that he brings in Mercenaries they actually arrived oh yeah yeah

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sessions you might have heard of the Hessians no I've never heard of the Hessian they have fancy hats no I've never heard of the Hessian so it's 72 we have the tea party over the so at that point is that when the Hessians come so 72 is it's very under 72 it's December is when the Boston Tea Party happens it's cold as shit it's cold as shit it's actually impressive they were able to get the tea in the water because you know up there the water does free so I guess it was early enough in the winter but anyway they the pitch the tea overboard were not going to pay the tax on this tea and they pitch it overboard

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and you take me into that day do you like what like it's December and they're like and they get all this T so what would have caused everyone loves like a high noon tea honey it's Britain still at this time so what has happened is so Britain had tax all these Goods American said we're not having any of them and then Britain passed a specialty act to lower the price of tea and they did this they weren't trying to trick the colonists are trying to help their colonies in India but anyway the colonists saw this as a trap like they're going to lower the price of the tea but the tax still

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so if we buy the tea were agreeing to the tax or trying to trick us yeah so they send the the shipments of T they come to all the ports not just Boston and every single port Philadelphia Charleston they send it away they say you cannot doc you cannot unload your tea you must go back the governor in Massachusetts he is bound and determined they're going to they're going to load that damn tea and they're going to make sure that this gets sold in the and you wanted to be loyal to the king yeah and he's an interesting guy he's one of the few American

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Born Governor's most of them are Englishmen have been sent here he's an American born and he's like no we're going to do this so against the will of the people he brings the ship had come he but he says we're gonna let them unload the tea before they had a chance that's when a number of people the Sons of Liberty were sort of the leaders what they decided that they were going to go on board and I okay we're going to be oh my God I'm I don't know about you all but I am enthralled right now we're going to really put quick break we'll be right back with more

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dr. Jessica Roney right after the break

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hey welcome back to getting curious It's Jonathan Vanessa it's early December okay the all the tea all other ships have been sent away but this Massachusetts governor is like no honey the tri stays it's going to be sold and then all the who people the Sons of Liberty they get together they go on board and they take hatches they're sort of dressed they're sort of Base they put the suit on their faces they pretend they're looking like Indians they don't look like Indians but anyway they don't casual racism all the way into our very beginning but also dressing up you know but I but that is interesting that

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that's sort of the thought of you know darkening your face to dress up like someone else and like that's a kind of like in the fabric of things that our country's done that's just interesting to know but anyway so then what happened so the take hatches to the the casks of T and then they dump them in the harbor so that it is the loose tea leaf yeah these would have been loose tea leaves and it's funny it wasn't called the tea party until Generations later like which kind of the term tea party makes it seem a little bit more girly and like nausea threatening not cerebelli

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has it's incredibly rebellious it's incredibly they could even save their prior their their stock like they didn't get paid for it like no one got paid us all that was for nothing that's an assault it's an assault on property and that's one of the sort of foundations of English and subsequently American life is his property so so when when they finally get news back to England which takes a long time because it's winter the king decides to punish Boston and what he does is he closes the harbor which is going to Cripple the economy he takes away their constitution here evokes it

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he and he closes the Boston Harbor and was that from 72 to 76 it's now 73 yeah he closes it and he takes away their Charter this would be like someone coming into the National Archives taking our Constitution and ripping it in half there is no government support system no longer has a basis nothing has a basis like you can't how do you function like money doesn't work Nothing Suits like whatever I like it doesn't work and then there were a few other acts with those are some of the major ones so what after that they just had to report store

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Massachusetts had to report straight back to the king theoretically or was technically going to be directly ruled by the governor and they were going to have no say at all was going to be completely autocratic oh that guy who had wanted to be loyal who had the ship dock it was going to be loyal for him yeah got it he's gonna be like dictator of Massachusetts right so at that point the other colonies were like wait a minute you know this is not okay you know I think I've been giving you all the wrong years the Peak Tea Parties following winter 73 this is all happening in 74 the other colonies are saying no like we

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we think Boston went too far in destroying the tea but but now when we see the king doing this that he could do that to us he could take away our constitutions he could take away our guns our tea party 73 yes yes but now we're decided at 73 yes and then so then the he closes it by 74 and then in response to all of that that's why the Continental Congress was called when did the German Hessian people come in 76 oh so that didn't happen for a while so what happens next I have a continental congress in 74 they say okay we're gonna we are going to boys

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Scott everything we're going to not have any exports at all and I'm sorry Imports at all and if this goes on for another year we will stop exporting to Tobacco sugar well there's not too much sugar but rice everything we're not going to we're not going to send it before that can happen the the General in Boston is sent out to find the weapons in Lexington and Concord and that's when the fighting starts own 75 is when the fighting starts that's why the Hessians were coming in 76 oh so the bossed wait who from Austin again

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there's a general posted in Boston Boston's under military rule and his ideas that he's supposed to go out to Lexington and Concord in these other little ones like the ancient Inca oh those are just little towns and Rural Massachusetts Villages and find the German people and find the weapons that they're using their to defend against the British which is really the German people that he the mercenary people know you're putting him in too early oh guys this is this is pre all of them what happens is first there's fighting between the British and the Americans in Massachusetts yes and then

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the news of that remember it takes like six weeks on a good trip to take six weeks to get back to England and then six weeks to get back so he's got the news and that by the summer of 75 that this is happening he gets the Olive Branch Petition saying okay let's try and cool off here you're our King were loyal to you or not loyal to Parliament and then by the spring of 76 they're getting the news a that he has rejected the Olive Branch Petition and be that he's getting Hessian troops that he's going to send in addition to the British troops

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basically he seemed like you guys don't get to disagree with what I'm going to do a Massachusetts and I will do this to you and in fact I'm going to bring in these rooms just to make sure that you don't get any other ideas yeah I know he's to the point of like this is this is how it's going to be and we are absolutely going to use full force to make sure that you do what you're supposed to do and so at that point they're like no yeah so how does the so how does it start how does Webster the war well it's that that's the fighting in Concord and how did we declare it like did we declare like did where we like fuck it the

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well it's no one expected there to be Bloodshed on that day in April and in Massachusetts and was soon as everyone else hears about it they're like No And they're sending troops they're rallying the Second Continental Congress has actually already meeting here in Philadelphia they choose this random colonel from Virginia named George Washington to go up and be in charge of what they're calling out whoa so 76 it's our second Constitution

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five it's the second continental congress gotta 74 of the first one in Billy second is 75 and at 7:00 at the second constitutional Congress we pick or Continental Congress we picked George Washington a relative unknown right from Washington this is Virginia these colonies are not in a whole lot of contact with each other like they don't necessarily know if you're in Philadelphia you don't know people in Virginia and necessarily so it was actually really important to choose a Virginian to lead it because it's they didn't want it to be a New England fight they didn't want to pick a New England

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why they wanted to pick someone else because the whole point is it's a continental problem not a Massachusetts problem so they choose this guy he's got some military experience he shows up actually at he's a delegate to the Continental Congress and he shows up in full military dress like he's ready for it and they think he is doing so they they make him the general and he did pretty well and so General meant that he was the leading the Army he was leading the Rebellion against the British soldier so he was going to be in because wasn't like we were all like militias at that point or something right

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yeah we were and that didn't work very well like the one of the first things Washington wanted to do is get a regular army he was like this is militia men don't pay good attention like they're not good at discipline they kind of do what they want to do their enlistments are short so they'll leave they'll go home and helps their families with the farm like they've got you know these are family men links I've got stuff to do he's like we need a professional Army we need people who are going to be here for for the duration of the war who are promising to stay and like he basically it's funny because we have this whole myth of like the Minuteman and how great that is

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isn't it's a beautiful story but Washington himself is saying like know what's the Minuteman the Minuteman was the idea of this is these militiamen the idea was that they would be ready in a minute oh that's where that comes from there are other meanings that have you know come on later but Minuteman and this context means like within a minutes notice he would be ready to go and defend his community so to bring it back to like Philly specifically it's like so 1975 for is our first one and we're really like people

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not loving England yeah at this point they're really conflicted like they it's easy to look backward and say they're going to declare independence because two years later they will but in somebody for their really conflicted there are some radicals who are saying we're done this is this over and then other people were saying like it's like a bad breakup you know like there's there's a part of you that's like we can make it work and then there's a part that's like screw it so all of those people are there and there are some people who remain loyal like there are people who never including who are at the Continental Congress who never

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fully broke with England and who sided with England oh that's interesting so but the first one yeah so so what was the first one like in Philly and 19 are in 1774 the first one was remember they're scared out of their minds about the fact that the King has revoked the constitution of Massachusetts so they're afraid this could happen to them and each one had their own Constitution yeah I mean they call them Charters yes yeah so so they're they're trying to figure out how can we punish him for that and make sure he doesn't ever do it again and so that's where they come up with this

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total nonimportation boycott they're not going to take any English goods and this will put pressure on the economy and this will mean that he'll come to reason then there's Bloodshed in April so just just a little like they met in the fall of 74 that spring now there's Bloodshed because he and 75 sent the troops out to find weapons in Lexington and Concord and confiscate them oh because because because to confiscate their weapons from the American Settler people but how did they know that they were getting weapons

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well by this point the tensions are so high that they have been arming they have been practicing with their militias like they're ready for a fight especially in Massachusetts to defend their rights right so the English know this and they send orders to the general who's in Boston they're like go out there and take their damn weapons away and the generals like this is a bad idea this is going to start a war we like we don't care that's what we think should happen you go do it and he does and it's a bloodbath for his men it's terrible is that part of where the Second Amendment comes

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like this militia and like right to bear arms and the government can't come take it from you and stuff that's a super complicated question because the the the Second Amendment it says the right to bear arms I'm not going to remember the language per se but it's like the you look it up and we'll talk about it but it is tied very much to malicious service and so the debate today is whether it's an individual right like do I individually have a right to own a gun just for whatever reason or

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or is the amendment written in such a way that it says for the community good I have the right do you have it it's pulling up extremely slow Second Amendment the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed such language has created considerable debate regarding the Amendments intended scope right so when they came up with the amendments there 10 Amendments that they put in the Constitution right

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and we call this the Bill of Rights and they actually proposed like 20 and they only in the end use 10 of them so they're actually we have the Congressional debates around them and some of them are really long like how they like they're really thinking about the language they didn't have a lot of debate about the Second Amendment like it was clear to them it's not clear to us what they meant one of the few things that they debated when they were talking about the Second Amendment one one guy said we should prohibit there ever being a standing army they ignore that that was a bad idea

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they also said well what about pacifists pacifist should never have to serve if it's against their conscience so that's one of the few things they said in the debate which many historians interpret to mean they were thinking about the right to bear arms in relation to the duty to bear arms right and a duty are two sides of the same coin so you don't have rights without also having duties like as a citizen you have all these rights but you also have duties to defend your community to vote

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to play pay your taxes you know do the things you do to be a good part of a community so that's the I read it as a right and a duty tied together but some people just want to see it as like a right individual totally unmoored from they only take like the right to about bear arms shall not be infringed upon they take that sentence out of context and don't apply it to the the well-regulated militia part which comes before it right because it's like I think that the way that the constitution was written in just like the that was part of why I

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to do this episode is like what was the day in and day out you know cultural political landscape of early you know early America and and you know I think that's like really interesting so like you know as they're congregating for the Second Continental Congress and they elect George Washington to lead the Army because there was Bloodshed when the general or when the guy in Massachusetts goes out to get the guns there is Bloodshed as a response to that is that when the Second Continental Congress Congress comes

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also they were actually already going to meet when they met in the first one they said we're going to reconvene in the spring of 75 which means when the news of Lexington comes born by somebody named Paul Revere he may have heard oh yeah he's the message Bearer he shows up on his horse and says this has happened there's there's been fighting like they were actually already in session so they didn't have to figure it out and come together they were already there interesting so and then they appoint in June they appointed Washington he goes up and they besieged

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Ian the British are holed up in Boston in the whole militia and the continental army with units streaming in from the colonies the United Colonies as they are now called are coming in and so for about a year they're in they're in limbo are they Rebels and Rebels by the way in military law have no rights like if you catch a rebel you can kill him right away there's no right you get no rights as a rebel or are they an independent nation are they something different and and so that is why

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the Declaration of Independence was so important part of it was making a decision amongst all really quick we're going to take a really quick break and be right back with more getting curious after this we're figuring this out together honey how do we get in this whole situation if there is something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals better help online counseling can help better help offers licensed professional counselors who are specialized in issues such as depression anxiety relationships trauma anger family conflicts lgbtq matters

► 00:27:03

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other help.com / JV n then simply fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with the counselor you'll love that's better help.com / JV n you can hear at freed new episodes of getting curious plus two weekly bonus episodes only on Stitcher preemie yum for a free month of Stitcher preemie gum go to stitch a premium.com / GV n and use promo code jvn welcome back to getting curious this is Jonathan bed nets and we are

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here with dr. Jessica Roni associate professor of history at Temple College of liberal arts so we we have Washington in Spring of 75 in June we start besieging Boston and Juna 75 yeah so we start besieging Boston all the independent people all the independent and at that point do we know that there's going to be 13 cosine oh so we still don't know who the United Colonies are going to be so that point was like maybe Canada is going to join our maybe Bermudez me like hey we want to leave to or maybe Florida's going to sign on

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that's why you know at this point is so dangerous for the fighting and in Boston because like any of these Rebels that are captured by the British so there's is there a lot of active fighting in Boston at this time it's mainly so there's a Battle of Bunker Hill which was a June 17th I know it's my birthday so I remember that one and that's a loss for the Americans but it shows that they can stand up to regular troops the British troops are the best in the world I mean literally like they are they're incredible and so that the very fact that these militiamen were able to hold up

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to them at all is important but soon as I Washington command is commanding them through the summer of 75 right he hadn't made it up there for Bunker Hill but he's soon after he gets there this is why your later though because they don't have guns they don't have materials like they have to get that from somewhere and that means getting other countries to give them loans or to give the military aid so in order to France so in order to be able to go to the court of France and say help us they have to be their own country so that's the

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I'm Independence it's funny because the Fourth of July we celebrate it as these incredibly important rule words for us they weren't written for us they were written for the king of France they were written to say we're our own country please give us 8 this is part of like so Fourth of July 1776 actually they declared independence on July 2nd oh no so July 2nd 1776 we declare independence from England to the king of France yep it's on the fourth that they had

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adopt the Declaration of Independence so it's funny because John Adams writes home to his wife he's like July 2nd will be celebrated throughout American history they'll be bonfires and fireworks and all kinds of stuff and it's like yes but it'll be July 4th why well that was the day the vote was taken to do it and then the fourth was just adopting the language so he was thinking like the action was important thing not the language today if they voted to do it the second but then like on the fourth you like okay and we're putting it in effect well now the fourth they're like this is the this is the list of reasons

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is the document that explains why they hashed all that out of that worth alone if you if you read no hit that there is a committee that I've been working on it's the day that they adopted the what the committee had come up with and the committee is basically Thomas Jefferson like there are other people on the committee but he wrote it and the rest of the committee members kind of and those are the Bill of the Bill of Rights is much later that will cut it to the Constitution got it so this is just like a in 1776 July second theory just like saying like we are an independent nation we're going to call ourselves the United States yeah is that when we knew official

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there's gonna be 13 there were 13 there at that point they had actually sent a mission of an embassy to Canada to track Canada to participate as well and they're like no we're not there's not doing it or not interested they were catholic they were afraid that the United States was just kind of rabidly anti-catholic at the time they're like that's not a good that's not a good partnership got it so we declare our independence on July 2nd we adopt the language on July 4th of the stuff that Thomas Jefferson had said but what was that called like that what do they adopt on the July 4th well it's called

► 00:31:33

Declaration of Independence oh yeah Jesus yes right so it it's funny you know the we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator I'm going to get the language yeah but that's that's the part that everyone knows the documents like this long you know like that's that's a couple sentences and it's actually quite a long document and what all of those parts are are a laundry list of all the reasons that King George has failed as a king and that this is this is the political philosophy of the American Revolution is that there's a social compact between the people and

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their governor and what they're saying is the governor has broken the contract he has failed to protect us he has done all of these things wrong he has sent mercenaries amongst us he's incited Indians against us there all these things are saying this is what he's done wrong and this is why we are declaring independence we're not just crazy we're not just Rebels we are a political people making our own decisions and he broke the contract first it's not our fault we're standing up for our rights right so that happens in July 4th and then

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happens then they have a long road ahead of them in Philly what happened in Philly so they have about a year they've about 15 months where they're kind of hanging out Philadelphia before the British show up and the British kicked the butt of the American Army so that has to flee so bar so Philly they have the Earth because the the battles of the battles going on in Massachusetts in Boston so that's where all this stuff was going down so but then like after is Bunker Hill just on going all through 75 into the winter and stuff so the British actually left Boston it wasn't it

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particularly well held City for them or very important instead they take New York and they take New Jersey and then they decide they're going to take Philadelphia which is not a really strong military Target but it's like a devastating blow and it means that Congress has to flee and George Washington is at Valley Forge this like Camp okay so take me into this take me into the fleeing because I read this thing about like when we won the revolution like George Washington went to New York City like to leave out to get rid of the last troops he had this like apple pie or something and I was just like oh

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how interesting I didn't realize like like weird so basically so bunker Hellzapoppin off and we lose their but we showed that we could stand up to them and then like that kind of made everyone take note and we lost the battle but we won thus each right we won The Siege and then at 76 we regroup in the summer and we're like we gotta declare independence because they can just take us at will and and and we haven't really declared war yet and we need to organize a war we got to go to France and we can't do that unless we're our own country so they do that July 4th 1776 with the King of France

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and then he sends us such as trypsin trypsin stuff looks you gotta think about it from the king of Francis perspective he's got colonies to he doesn't want his colonists looking at this and saying who that's a neat idea and of course they are going to do that in a very short amount of time but so he's he's kind of got two competing sides of him one is I hate England yeah like I really would love to stick it to England so I would love to help the colonists on the other hand I'm broke I just lost a war against England and I don't want to encourage my colonists with these crazy ideas

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like you can get rid of your king that's not anything he wants to support so he's kind of like laying back to see what happens and it's what happens is the Americans are just getting their butts kicked like what Washington is very good at though is never allowing the British to catch him and force him into an all-out battle every time they think they've got him cornered he gets away every time so he knew he had to stay free of kept British capture because that would have spelled out like the end yeah so there's just sort of like the British have to defeat the Americans just kind of have to

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to survive and that's those are two very different levels of objectives so they survive long enough they finally get a good victory in Saratoga in 78 and that's basically from the time we declare independence through 78 were just getting our ass kicked yeah so and when we send word to France that we are going to declare independence in 76 it takes until when do the British come and they take New York City and they take all of New Jersey I'm 76 is when they send these flotillas with tens of thousands of British soldiers

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doesn't like you've you were referencing Hamilton earlier they talk about the sight of it of the the Harbor New York Harbor just filled with the New York City where we see like what is present-day like like downtown Manhattan like the like the base got like the base of Manhattan like there was just two that's like where the port of New York City is and there was just tons of British ships just coming just imagine nothing but sales and you know I know what day that was it is what time of year Ash it's

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the summer summer of 76 so right after we declare an offense maybe six weeks later like mid-august or something's that's how long it takes or whatever you had said like six weeks on a good chance because he's already setting the troops before the Declaration of Independence I do not remember off the top of my head when they get there but it's you know so but they just clear out here acting like if you're a rebel they kill you right earlier if you're a part of the American Army their cash because we already were a country by then so maybe we had some rights like if they captured the British don't recognize it you know just because United States says it's an independent nation they are so capturing them as Rebels or whatever this is the thing about declaring

► 00:36:33

country other people have to recognize it like Puerto Rico you said before like Puerto Rico could say we're our own country but unless other people recognize it and treat it like an independent nation it's not so but they take New York City and Washington ever it's like shit they're coming there's a really lot of people and they take New Jersey and I like sure there's a lot of people and then in 7000 and then but Washington's just escaping escaping escaping and oh yeah I want to go to Philadelphia now then in 76 they take New York they take New Jersey and then in Philadelphia were all minding our own business that was our first

► 00:37:03

first capital like that's like our Capital even in 76 it is cows were conscious kind of so what happens like we all wake up on the morning of like something so in the fall of 77 the British decided they were going to March over land they're going to send some troops up I'd already taken New York City and they're going to take Philadelphia and again it's not a strong military and they already took New York City in New Jersey and they hold New York the whole War yes New York the whole War it's it's under British control they send these troops to Philadelphia and and they we lose a battle Germantown we lose

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the Battle of Brandywine and you know that's when the Congress has to flee so Congress had to flee all the representatives that were here had to flee everyone has to flee the bridge did they burn the how did they burn everything down they didn't the British come they take over the houses they take over independent what we call Independence Hall it was called the Pennsylvania state house then they trash the place like they're there for the better part of a year but nine months probably and they when they left because again it's not a military strategy like strategically important place they just give it

► 00:38:03

up because it's not helping them they trash the place I mean there's just like shit literally excrement everywhere they used Independence Hall as a hospital you know they're just they're they're desecrating churches are doing all kinds of things but one of the things that's funny that they do there the general was recalled and back to England because he wasn't the war wasn't going well before he left his officers organized for him probably the biggest party Philadelphia ever saw its in what today is sort of past young area

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they organized this like whole day long medieval joust where they've got they have two teams there's like the white knights in the Black Knights and they they literally are jousting they have this extravagant party all of the Pete the elites of Philadelphia who haven't fled are invited they dance they design a general back to England but they were a loyalist to the Jacqueline these are all Loyalists and all the Reps for the 13 colonies that were like fighting like with Washington had to flee in the middle of the night like guns blazing

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there they kill any other represented in the Congress people get killed or anything or to go away no they all got away so the British kind of sucked like first like being the best in the world like I feel like we were really like getting away a lot well you got again you got to thinking from the British respectful to you King George on the one hand like the more they kill Americans the less Americans want to thank you so if your if your point is to say you belong as part of the British Empire you want you want them to come to your side Balan terribly so it sort of limits your ability to have a military campaign so they're doing both

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like actually if the British had really brought it if they had said like fuck you America we're just going to bring it to you you know like they could have done far worse than they did but because they're always fighting with one hand behind their back because they're kind of trying to say you really belong with us come back because there is a lot of loyalists the whole time with an American you know that we don't know specifically our exactly but we think that a significant percentage was was ton of neutral like about half or about neutral about a quarter was a loyalist and

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quarter was really Pro so when they come to Philadelphia and they take over the houses and 7777 that they arrived here because we already have the other ones um like that means if the British should weren't soldiers like using homes like they're just like hey you have to provide beds or whatever have you said know what they just kill you or something or put you in jail or need to kill you but they would just do it anyway like they have the military force in the people who are in Philadelphia don't really have arms like it's not like they're gonna stand at their door all day and shoot anyone who comes in So yeah so okay so the 13 colonies and and we I'm just

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I'm I'm having a fork in my road of if I want to go towards what happened in the Revolutionary War or if I want to talk about like what Philly and more like the cultural political politics of like the time works I'm also but I'm also like we're not going anywhere so I could always have you act like it maybe you feel like my early American expert I think I would love it um so like who of the 50% that were neutral than the ones that were more fiery because like I saw John Adams on HBO like years ago such a good miniseries oh my God so who were like the most

► 00:41:03

very geographically and then who is like the most like conservative in the more like like what was like the Midwest of the colonies Pennsylvania so Pennsylvania was like the Midwest kikunoi we really should be more cult-like more loyal there I mean so Massachusetts is like super radical most of them then there are these Hot Heads in Virginia like Patrick Henry Thomas Jefferson Pennsylvania is really on the fence about it like there the the one guy who's probably the most politically

► 00:41:34

strong political actor going up to the revolution he remained a loyalist and so he's got his finger on the thumb of Pennsylvania government right up to the end when they finally oust him but his name is Joseph Galloway and he is not known he was the guy who got recalled knows this is this isn't Pennsylvania you're thinking oh God I got it sorry yes the the general but he this is yet another Pennsylvania guy and he's just not for it the other thing about Pennsylvania of course Quakers and the Quakers are not they don't really like what King George the third is doing

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but they also don't really they Pennsylvania's very special place they had their own special Charter that gave them religious protection which they had not had in England and they're afraid what if we have a revolution we tear up our governing document they make a new one how can you guarantee me that my rights are going to be as protected under the new government as a under this one but they ended up being freedom of religion was like a part of it wasn't it well yes but but how do you know that in 1775 like if I came to you today and I was like

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Jonathan we're going to tear up the deck that Jordan the year though don't worry we're gonna we're gonna tear up the Declaration we're going to tear up the Constitution I promise you the new government will be just as good like how would you feel about right what about like South Carolina North Carolina like Georgia Georgia and all of the southern states South Carolina especially in and Virginia like they have very large enslaved populations which means they have an an Insurgent population right there and the British know this the British actually promised freedom to any black man they don't really want the women or children

► 00:43:03

who will come and join them and fight with them and so though they did oh yeah yeah and so the the planners are just like losing their minds over this this is this is actually if you read the Declaration of Independence is one of the things they say that he has incited domestic insurrections amongst us but that doesn't say the word slave but that's what they mean Mystic internal Insurrection because was there because wasn't there was there abolitionists in the Revolutionary War not they're just starting to get started and it's actually in Pennsylvania with the Quakers the

► 00:43:33

are getting started so in 75 independent of all the rest of this the Pennsylvania abolition Society was founded here in Philadelphia it's like tiny its Quaker most people think they're nuts but but there's been a voice of abolitionism going back 75 years in Pennsylvania at that point so it's been a strain usually ignored but getting stronger in Pennsylvania from all that time but it's not a big part of the American Revolution like the revolution is

► 00:43:59

not whatever other hierarchies they want to disrupt slavery is not really one of them so wow so I would think I just want to like Zoom through the end of the Revolutionary War and then and but then I'm going to have to have you back to talk about like what daily life but like how did you get water what was like what you know what was like like what did the streets look like like I want to talk about all that stuff but and then I got distracted with the Revolutionary goddamn war will have to have you back twice I'm going to tell you the water one which is that you

► 00:44:29

you drink beer that's how you get your water interest and okay okay so but Saratoga 78 we win an important battle is that is enough for the functioning work right it is yeah that is enough for the French King to say you know what I'm gonna do it I'm gonna I'm gonna come in on your side we had done it on our own up until then and it's proved that they're serious like he doesn't want to come in on the side of people who are not really going to uphold their end of the bargain are just going to fold they've shown that they're not going to fold they've actually want to battle

► 00:44:59

he really would love to stick it to the English so he comes in on their side he signs a treaty with them and start sending troops this changes everything for the British because now the French unlike the Americans the French have a Navy which means suddenly Britain has to defend Britain it has to defend the Caribbean it has to defend India it has to defend Africa it has all these different Colonial possessions all over the world suddenly the American Revolution becomes a global war then Spain comes in Spain never sides with the Americans for long reasons but

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allies with France so it's like the friend of our friend now Spain is families fighting Spain actually invades Florida and gets it back this is one of the interesting things about the American Revolution the British lost 15 colonies in the American Revolution 13 go to the United States to go back to the Spanish Empire which was Florida and East and West Florida it's to colonies so they and then when it Florida leave Spain and join us that happens in 1819 well that wasn't for

► 00:45:59

a long-ass time time so Florida was part of Spain until 1819 yeah that's like 40 more years for something so we went Saratoga and then France comes in and then we made a treaty those he's like we're going to be allies and then we ended up winning the Revolutionary War in 81 the Battle of Yorktown is the last one and it's this incredible coming together of the American and army the French navy they're all pinning the British in at the time it wasn't actually a decisive defeat

► 00:46:29

like at the time it wasn't clear that that was going to be the last battle but the British had just lost Pensacola Florida to the Spanish they're afraid they're going to lose Jamaica because the Spanish are kind of eyeing the Caribbean and however much the British don't want to lose the 13 colonies they lost Jamaica is their most important Colony it is the wealthiest colony of all of them and they cannot afford to lose Jamaica they're like you know what we're calling it we're just going to cut our losses this country is never going to work anyway they're going to fight amongst themselves they're going

► 00:46:59

to fall apart and we'll just have them back like it'll be like a couple years of nonsense and then they'll be part of the British Empire again because this is just knock it's stupid it's not going to work so that was what they're thinking what yeah that's crazy so seven or well interesting so 78 we want Saratoga than the tried start to change but so then when we went in Yorktown that wasn't totally clear but then the king decides that like you don't wanna fight anymore yeah take two more years to sign the Treaty of Paris so that it's always hard to say what are the years of the American Revolution the fighting is 75

► 00:47:29

781 the Declaration 76 the Treaty of Paris which ended it is 1783 so so it didn't if it's because wasn't there still like some random battles like in Georgia and like other places that were like they couldn't get like word to that like your tone was over and stuff so yeah there's still fighting in the thing is like it depends on where you're standing the American Revolution if your Cherokee the American Revolution lasted until the 1790s you know like that that conflict that starts in 70 in the 1770s in say Tennessee

► 00:47:59

Eeyore Ohio that same conflict went on for like 40 years I don't understand I mean like the a big part of that were like we've focused on the Eastern side of it and how they're fighting the British they're also fighting Indians and that war doesn't end in 17 years is written still claiming like tent-like the land that is currently Ohio and know they give that up in the Treaty of Paris but the Shawnee people in the Delaware people in the Miami's and all these different groups who are there they're like it's not Britain's to seed guys is

► 00:48:29

our land is not your land and it's not Britain's land it's Shawnie land so then the US government and the Shawnee started making treaties in like know they're fighting or there but they fought until but till like 7:00 till the War of 1812 what I'm saying is like how you define the beginning and end of a war depends on where your Civil War of 1812 was between the War of 1812 is once again between the United States and Britain in most textbooks but if you're standing in Ohio the

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war started in 1754 and it didn't end until 1815 so is that one Burton is like okay it's been there 40 Years of craziness we're going to take them back now no it's that the British the British are mainly like the reason for that war is that the Americans are sick of the British trying to control their Navy their their merchant shipping but it means that the British who are in Canada are suddenly like they're supplying Native Americans who are in Ohio and the Americans are trying to take those Indians land and this is all in all I'm trying to say is that

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American Revolution has a tidy end if you're a white person it does not have a tidy and for indigenous people who are fighting to preserve their homelands in the American Revolution just opens up Conflict for them it doesn't end it there war for independence is ongoing oh my God it's like a whole lot it's like a whole other podcast it's so - so blown right now it's so multi-layered just really quickly George Washington goes to New York City at the end what was that whole thing of him like taken like a horse down

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Broadway and like I feel like I read something that him having like some apple cake or some apple pie some apple thing you've ever heard this worry haven't heard that story but I hope it's true we had maybe like research like apple cake early apple cake of like New York City um okay well you're definitely gonna have to come back and tell us more I would love enough but there were so but basically so Yorktown young Yorktown was the last official battle that British troops as we know them and look American troops as we knew it in the Revolutionary work there wasn't any other official ones after that but maybe this is the last big one yeah and and again

► 00:50:29

if you seen Hamilton they sing the song about Yorktown it's called the world turned upside down that is the title I love like Miranda he he got all these facts and he slips them in so that is the song that they played it's called the world turned upside down that they played when the British surrendered and so they leave Virginia the reason that George Washington goes to New York City Is At that's the last place the British hold onto and they're there until I guess the fall of 1783 might be 1784

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anyway when they finally evacuate it's called evacuation day they negotiated with them it'll be on this day we will finally be gone and so like they leave and Washington comes in and it's this huge important celebration and that was until 83 hmm so we're going to do other episodes like what was evacuation day like what happened with 1812 what was it like a day in the life of Philadelphia and you know 1776 we have so many more episodes is really just our introduction I feel like you're giving me a whole semester of classes to teach this is awesome

► 00:51:29

dr. Jessica Roney thank you so much for your time I appreciate it so much thank you it's been wonderful to talk to you

► 00:51:37

you've been listening to getting curious with me Jonathan Van Ness my guest this week was dr. Jessica Roni you'll find links to dr. Roni and Temple University socials in the episode description of whatever you're listening to the show on follow us on Instagram and Twitter at curious with jvn our theme music is Free by Quinn thank you so much to her for letting us use it if you enjoyed our show introduce a friend show them how to subscribe honey getting curious is produced by Emily Bostick Julie Carrillo Ray Ellis Harry Nelson and Colin Anderson

► 00:52:08

hey hey guys it's a sheer hand the call from best friends our podcast has been out for a few months if you haven't listened to it you should we've already ask the big questions in life imagine if we could lay eggs okay I guess we might be fun if you could eat from yourself now because I played cannibalism not when you eat yourself what hmm answer listener

► 00:52:35

questions hi Nicole is this year what happens this year dies first I mean I've never thought of it well I would be so sad oh no I'm not gonna die take BuzzFeed quizzes let's pick eight foods and we'll give you a sex position to try whoa this is wild plus we bring on other funny best friends to talk about their friendship I almost want to cry I feel I don't know why that feeling me so much now but it's because it's pure to talk about

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it's name it's so nice it's so rare to like articulate it but she's always there for me like I think she's just somebody who I love so much it's really sweet best friends with Nicole Byer and Sasheer Zamata is new every Wednesday on Stitcher Apple podcast Spotify or wherever you get your podcast listen oh my god dude