ADNAN: What Serial Didn't Tell You

Apr 8, 2018

Hundreds of millions of people tuned into Serial season one back in 2014. Sarah Koenig told us all about the story of 18-year-old high school senior Hae Min Lee who disappeared on January 13th, 1999. Hae's body was later found in Leakin Park, and not too long after the discovery of her body, police zeroed in on their prime suspect: Adnan Syed. Sarah took us all through 12 episodes of "Did he or didn't he?" and many of us ended the season with more questions than answers. But did you know that Serial was just the beginning and there was so much that Sarah never covered? If you listened to Serial season one, you must listen to this single episode that sums up the top four points Serial didn't tell you, but you need to know before you decide whether or not you think Adnan is guilty. We won't be re-covering the Serial story - we jump in assuming you already know it. So, if you haven't listened yet, check out the first season of Serial. Sources for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/adnan-what-serial-didnt-tell-you/    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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hello everyone and welcome to a very special episode of crime junkie I am your host Ashley flowers and I'm Britt and today we're setting out to make a podcast episode that I have been wishing existed for years a single episode that concisely gives a high-level overview of all of the facts you can't get on Adnan syed's case just from listening to cereal like many people my first introduction into the podcast world was with cereal in 2014 yeah you're welcome

I was actually the one who got you into it yeah it was the best gift you ever gave me serial season 1 is like the reigning king of True Crime podcast the storytelling was just absolutely phenomenal and it drew me in a way that no other podcast has been able to do since and I know other people felt the same way because the podcast has gotten hundreds of millions of downloads the first season is set in Baltimore Maryland and it tells the story of a young High School senior named Haman Lee who was murdered in 1997

E9 but the focus of the story is really on her ex-boyfriend Adnan Syed who was later convicted of her murder the host of cereal Sarah Koenig tries to make a determination for herself and for the listeners is Adnan a cold-blooded killer who has his friends and families fooled or is he innocent of Hayes murder I'm not going to recount all 12 episodes of cereal season one that's been done by so many other podcasts and there's no way I could tell the story better than Sarah did herself plus I don't

Robbie of the experience I think it's important that you take the roller coaster ride that we were all on back in 2014 so if you've been living under a rock hit pause on our episode now and go listen to season one of cereal then come back here and I'll tell you what cereal left out but for everyone who's caught up here we go

this was an amazing topic to debate with people back in 2014 did he or didn't he and it's something that Britt you and I even debated back then right I was firmly in the camp of he didn't and I had strong questions coming out of cereal that made me think maybe he did I kept coming back to Jay why would Jay implicate himself in something so serious if it didn't happen and how would Jay know where her car was I listen to the podcast twice once alone

and once on a road trip with my family and we all had the same debate after sure it seemed like Adnan got a raw deal but explain to me Jay and while my family was able to just like walk away confident he was innocent I needed more proof so I consumed anything and everything I could get my hands on that would help me understand what really happened on January 13th of 1999 and there were so many good things over most of 2015 I learned all of the evidence

and Sarah Cain and didn't know about or didn't cover and by the end I knew without a doubt that Adnan was innocent and I knew that if anyone else heard the same stuff that I was hearing they would think so too so as 2016 and 17 and now 18 have rolled on adnan's case has been making its way through the justice system his conviction has been overturned and he's been granted a new trial however I am still shocked every time I encounter someone who

says they think Adnan is guilty and this happens all the time when I asked them why they point to the same doubts that I had at the end of 2014 Jay the car Venetia call and every time I asked them but what about all the other stuff serial didn't cover and almost every time they just ask what stuff 90% of people who I talk to about cereal didn't listen to any of the shows that came after there were two very popular

other and informative follow-up podcast one was called undisclosed and the other was called serial Dynasty which is now named truth and Justice they not only covered what serial didn't but they did some major reinvestigations that were groundbreaking in adnan's case but as popular as they were they didn't reach the majority of cereal listeners or at least not the ones that I've been encountering there was also an amazing book that was written called Adnan story which thoroughly covers the

Ace and those reinvestigations but again I'm finding a very small percentage of people that I talk to have actually read it I can only assume that people have an educated themselves on this case because either they don't know this information is even out there or they don't want to invest the time into these other sources and to be fair there are hours upon hours of these follow-up podcasts and the book was pretty long to it takes a massive amount of time to consume and comprehend at all and people just might not have

have the time or patience I know I haven't I was really into the podcast undisclosed but lost track of it after a while the amount of content that is out there is just really daunting and that's the conclusion that I've come to most people I talked to aren't saying add-ons guilty because they just hate it they just don't know that there's more out there or if they do it seems really overwhelming of a task to sift through all the information to find the highlights I've always wished there was somewhere I could point the average serial listener to

a listen you don't have to invest days of your life to change your mind but check out this like 30 minutes or one hour thing and then let me know what you think after that so that's what we're doing here we're trying to make that thing something that gives people what I consider to be the top need to know facts if you're going to have an informed discussion about adnan's case and I want to be very clear so many wonderful smart and talented people have paved the way for me to do this episode all of the credit is due to

to them I'm just compiling their years of work into a blurb in an attempt to change public opinion and reach those people in the general public who would otherwise not consume lengthier information on this case so if after our show you want to take a deeper dive into the evidence that cereal didn't cover check out season 1 of undisclosed it's hosted by Rabia Chaudhary Colin Miller and Susan Simpson you can also check out season one of Truth and Justice with Bob rough and please please please go get ready

his book called Adnan story she covers so much more than what we're going to be talking about today and it's truly the Bible when it comes to adnan's case she has done some amazing work laying out what happened in January of 1999 and how the investigation and the trials to follow got so messed up so Britt there are boatloads of evidence or inconsistencies that cereal didn't cover but in an effort to keep this episode concise I want to cover just the four main points that I believe everyone who listened to steer

Uriel needs to hear in order to make an informed decision about adnan's guilt or innocence where these four things that we're going to talk about left out of cereal because Sarah Koenig didn't know about them or just because they didn't fit into her story you know I think it's a little bit of both there was a lot of stuff that didn't come out until after cereal so she wouldn't have known but there were little things she could have included and I kind of go back and forth on whether or not I agree with her choice but here's where I've landed I think it was a good decision to

about some of the stuff that maybe would have been more Pro Adnan in my opinion it's the debating that kept people talking and made people care I think there's a good chance if cereal would have been a straightforward wrongful conviction podcast we wouldn't still be here talking about it today she did the right thing to make it big in the way that she did and then undisclosed in the right thing with their follow-up to continue the fight for Adnan and I think Sarah Cain egg is first and foremost a story of

tell her and what she did was tell an amazing story yeah she even says right up from the podcast she's not an investigator she's not even a crime reporter she told an amazing and engaging story so with that let's just get to the meat of it the first point I want to bring up our those cell phone pings so if you remember from cereal Adnan was convicted because of Jays testimony Jay said Adnan told him he planned on killing hey and he let Jay use his car in his phone as part of that plan when it came time for

trial the prosecution said hey look J's a little Shifty but location data doesn't lie we can show you that Jay story is true because the cell phone pings match his story but it's not that cut and dry When J is first interviewed by police he tells them that he dropped Adnan off at school and then goes home to wait for add-ons call as part of preparing the case the police wanted to chart the path of the cell phone visually so detectives ask for a map to be created showing all of the cell towers and how the

the cell would have moved throughout the day based on where they paint the map that was made showed that two of The crucial pains which happened at 427 and 458 did not hit off the tower near Jay's house where he said he was instead it looked like the tower that the phone pinged off of was a few miles away so inexplicably by the time Jay goes to trial he now says that he didn't go home to wait he says that he went to his friend Christy's house to wait and if you're wondering

who Christie is we actually knew her in cereal as not her real name Kathy and conveniently Christy's house is in range of that cell tower on the map and he says he was at Christie's even though Christie says she wasn't even home at the time for him to come over that doesn't feel great do we know how close they were would he have gone over there even if she wasn't home okay sure maybe I can by that I mean the prosecution was confident enough to put him on trial with the changing story so who knows maybe it would have flown

loan but here is why we know that's BS there was a mistrial the first time and somewhere between trial number one and trial number to the police and the prosecution realized that whoever made that map made it wrong the cell tower was actually close to Jay's house so in trial number 2 J story changes again and he says he was back at his house waiting for the call so he was for sure lying yeah but I feel like we knew that already right I mean cereal did a pretty good

job of pointing out his inconsistencies but undisclosed did an even better job breaking down every single lie and one big bombshell that the undisclosed team found was in relation to those two incoming calls at 7:09 and 7/16 that pinged on the tower that covers Lincoln Park where Jesus body was discovered police and the prosecution say okay even if all of the other pings are off and don't match Jays story that's minor because

cuz we can prove that Adnan was at leakin Park burying her body because we can put his cellphone there and they got an expert to testify to this in court he said based on the records yes he is where Jesus body was found at the time Jay says they're burying her body well what the undisclosed team found was on the fax cover sheet from AT&T that had all of the call records there was one line that said quote outgoing calls only

reliable for location status any incoming calls will not be considered reliable information for location the expert witness never saw this until recently and when he did he said this would have totally changed his testimony so incoming calls can be routed through towers that aren't necessarily the closest Tower to the phone Bingo why didn't this come up at either of the trials well there's one of two reasons either a the prosecution left it out of the disclosure information that they provided to the

uh defense which is a huge Brady violation and Britain case anyone doesn't know what that is do you want to give a quick rundown of what a Brady violation is sure Brady violation means that the prosecution withheld something like information or evidence that would have been material to the outcome of a trial meaning that if the jury would have heard it it could have changed their minds if it's found that the prosecution had something like this Memo from the company stating that the evidence they were using wasn't a hundred percent accurate and they didn't share it with the defense

it would entitle the defendant to a new trial right so either they had it and they didn't hand it over to add-ons lawyer and that's a Brady violation deserving of a new trial or B they did give it to adnan's lawyer but she didn't read it and or maybe ignored it which in turn means that she did a really crappy job defending him and her incompetence or negligence would also entitle him to a new trial due to ineffective assistance of counsel and this is one of the main

Wayne's adnan's new lawyer Justin Brown pushed to get adnan's new trial it was this combined with Asia McLean's testimony it's so incredible that after all these years so many people missed that little line that really changed everything yeah Susan Simpson who found it is a goddess okay but to play devil's advocate here I'm going to say that some people listening have to be thinking okay you're proving to me he deserves a new trial but you're not really proving to me that he's innocent even though we can't say that the cell tower is a hundred percent accurate

but there's still a chance that it could be right right and this brings me to our second and what I think is the most important piece of evidence that was left out of the trial and cereal Hayes body because at the end of the day the cell phone pings aren't even worth talking about if you understand the significance of the way hey was found and to understand the implication of what I'm going to tell you I need you to understand the basics of what happens to a body after death so Britt want to drop some knowledge again of course so

when a person dies something called livor mortis sets in it's sometimes referred to as lividity so it has to do with the blood in the body if you're dead your heart isn't pumping anymore and blood isn't being circulated throughout your body so naturally the red blood cells in your body are weighed down by gravity and they settle in whatever part of the body is closest to the ground and this causes a purplish red blue discoloration wherever the blood is pooling right so say you die and you're laying flat on your back we would see that purplish

shred blue color all over your back all over your butt and the back of your legs because those are the parts of you closest to the ground but that doesn't happen instantaneously know it happens pretty slowly it can actually take eight to 10 hours for the blood to fully settle if you are in one position for the full eight to ten hours then you would have what they call full fixed lividity which means the blood didn't move around at any point in those eight ten hours after you died if a body is moved during those eight to ten hours you can almost track exactly

how it was moved because say you die laying on your back so the Blood starts to pool and begins to settle their but then someone comes and moves you to your right side the blood will follow the path of gravity and then start to pool again on the right side but not all of it will go because some of it has already settled too much on your back kind of like if you poured paint on a piece of paper and then tip the paper from side to side to make the paint run pathologist can see a path the body has been moved because the blood leaves patches where it has been

and when this happens this is called dual or mixed lividity right so the pattern of blood on someone's body can tell you what position they were in after death and whether or not they stayed like that for 8 to 10 hours or if they were moved during that time if you'll remember from serial the story Jay tells us is that Adnan killed hey between 2:30 and 3 then he puts her in the trunk which means she would have had to have been pretzeled up somehow like either on one of her sides or maybe her back but definitely ball

up to fit in that trunk then he takes her out of the car and buries her sometime between 7:00 and 7:30 that means for up to 5 hours hey would have been in the trunk and livor mortis would have started to set in in whatever position she was in in that trunk then they would have pulled her out placed her in the depression near that log where she was found and she was placed on the ground when they found her she was on her right side so no matter how she was kept in the trunk we

I'd be seeing signs of liver mortise on the right side of her body but that's not what the finding showed hey had full fixed lividity on the front of her body that purplish red blue color was present on her face her chest her stomach and the front of her legs from the way her blood pooled we know for a fact that she was laying completely flat face down for 8 to 10 hours after death so there's no way she could have been in her trunk from the

he was killed until the time Jay says she was buried around 7 p.m. in Lincoln Park 0% chance this isn't a soft science like this is just straight-up gravity and you can't argue with gravity face down flat for 8 to 10 hours so that not only means she wasn't in the trunk but it means that she couldn't have been buried until much later exactly so no matter whose side you were on defense or prosecution the timeline doesn't work we know hey was last seen at 2:15 at school

the absolute earliest she could have been killed is around 2:30 so that means she had to have been laying flat for 8 to 10 hours for livor mortis to fully set in that puts us at 10:30 or 12:30 at night at the earliest before she's buried and if you think she was killed any later than 2:30 the timeline only moves further back and so either way those cell pings around 7 o'clock mean absolutely nothing so even if

Adnan was sitting in the middle of leakin Park on his cell phone between 7:00 and 7:30 just because he loved the woods it doesn't mean anything because he wasn't even there until after 10:30 that night at the very earliest 100% and that's why I'm saying those cell pains don't matter he likely wasn't there at Lincoln Park around 7:00 on the 13th because we know from AT&T that those incoming calls aren't reliable but heck even if he wanted to be there it doesn't mean anything because there is

viable physical evidence that proves she wasn't buried there at that time okay again I'm going to play devil's advocate for everyone listening who's trying to make excuses for how Adnan could still be guilty what if he killed her took her body immediately to Linkin Park later flat left her for a while and then came back to bury her all right but it still doesn't work a that was never J story and Jay was the only thing prosecution hat on it on and be the police said the only reason Jay was

liable was because the cell records backed him but the cell records don't even back the story he gave in court and they definitely don't even come close to backing a scenario where they drop her off at Lincoln Park right away and then come back and there is zero physical evidence tying at non to the crime so to anyone who's trying to make an excuse for how he could have done it this way they're making the same mistake police did instead of looking at the facts and saying okay what really happened here they're starting from a place

case of I think I know what happened here now how can I twist and turn the facts to make it work with my theory and to top it off I have more there are some experts who don't even think hey was out in leakin park for six weeks if she was there that long we should have seen evidence of animal activity and severe decomposition but there wasn't any where was hey that she could lay flat for 8 to 10 hours and not be seen where was she kept away from animal activity for that long

and when was she really placed in Lincoln Park because it definitely wasn't January 13th around 7 p.m.

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so I think we can all agree that Jay is lying and not in a no I just got confused about the exact time in order of events kind of lying nothing even comes close to matching up nope so I gotta ask you the question you could not let go of when you listen to serial the first time what about Hayes car and that's Point number three before I knew all of the other stuff that was my one sticking point but what about the car if J is making all of this up how

he know where the car was did he do something to her like none of it made sense to me and it didn't anyone either because I think we were all under estimating the degree to which the police were willing to cheat in order to get their guy I don't want to get too deep into the Weeds on this because again this podcast is a high-level overview of what you need to know but there was some serious police misconduct in this case like for real and I encourage people to go back and listen to undisclosed or to read Robbie is book to get the full back

ground and that'll show you all the places that they went wrong and bent the truth to fit their Theory but for this I'm just asking that you trust me even though when I'm about to suggest seems to conspiratorial to be real life none of this would be out of character for the people who worked the case there's a picture of haze car when police recovered it after Jay told them the location I have this on our website if you want to go look at what I'll be pointing out the car was recovered on a grassy lot that was used for parking

supposedly it would have been sitting there for six weeks during this time there were winter storms with like snow and ice and it was nasty but her car was perfectly clean the grass spot next to her car was completely dead because another car had been parked over it so we would assume that that's what we would see under Hayes car since it had been there so long but the grass under Haze car was perfectly green she even had grass in her wheel well

well that was perfectly green like if you think I'm being crazy just go outside pluck a handful of grass on the ground hold on to it for six weeks and tell me if it's green there's no way it would have been dead I know so the theory is that it was moved but by who that's where it gets kind of dark and conspiratorial we don't know for sure but I feel pretty confident it wasn't there the whole time someone moved it and someone told Jay where it was any chance that Jay moved it I think that's super

unlikely I mean at this point it's becoming painfully clear that Jay doesn't actually know anything about what happened to hey his account of the day has been totally blown to shreds it is all made up and if you follow J's story and the police's investigation side by side Jay story unfold as police are finding new evidence not the other way around like for example they get to the car and from just glancing in it you

can see that the wiper lever was broken off so right away after they find the car Jay tells this story about how hey was kicking while she was being strangled in her kicking broke the lever well they send off the lever for testing and realize there's no fractures on the piece it was not broken off it had actually come off because the base was loosened when the ignition collar was removed why would the ignition collar have been removed well in her type of car removing the ignition collar

a great first step to hot-wiring the car so someone really could have moved her car and told Jay where it was yep and stuff like this happens over and over with Jace story he'll tell it one way until police find new evidence and then magically his story changes like at first he said that his jacket and purse were thrown away then when they find the car they find her jacket and purse in the trunk and so J changes his story and says that Adnan threw him in the trunk and it's nonstop with his back and forth staring

if where it's one thing one way until police find evidence and then J story changes to match so shady yep but like I said police had their sights set on an on and every new piece of evidence that came in they would twist and turn and contort until they could find a way to make it fit into their story but a lot of people think they came to admin after ruling out other suspects verifying Alibis looking at motives and odd naans was just the weakest so so wrong

long and this will be our fourth and final point that I want to hit on the cops looked into no one else even a tenth as hard as they looked into Adnan they actually pulled adnan's criminal record on February 3rd of $19.99 and that's before the anonymous tip comes in to police saying that they need to look at at 9 and do you want to guess how many other people got their criminal records pulled around the same time I really hope you're going to say a few the zero zero other people got there

criminal records pulled around the same time police didn't look at Hayes mom's ex-boyfriend or ex-husband they didn't look at Hayes uncle in fact did you know there was even another young girl who was also 18 years old also from Hayes High School that was strangled and also found in the woods like hey less than a year before her murder you're kidding no and the guy who killed her was out at the time that he was killed they didn't know who he was then but it's insane that they weren't talking about this connection

investigation so is that the prevailing theory that the same guy killed hey some people think it's a possibility it's certainly needs to be looked into but it's much more likely that hey was killed by someone she knew she told a friend before she left school that day that she had something to do before picking up her cousin they were never able to find Hayes pager either with her body or in her car so really everyone's best guess is that someone paged hey that day to meet them and that person killed her and then took her

major because it would have led police right back to them so likely it would have been someone that she knew someone who would know her pager number and that she would feel comfortable meeting right and more importantly someone who wasn't at school with her because why would that person page her if they were with her true but even though Adnan was at school with her police had to look at him right I mean I feel like people who are listening who are on the fence or thought he did it would say that police were justified in looking at him he was the ex-boyfriend I totally

I agree but I would think they would give the same amount of attention to her current boyfriend wouldn't you yeah definitely but they didn't not even close and this is where the case it's bone chilling to me so when hey goes missing they try and reach her boyfriend Dawn on January 13th police attempt to contact him pretty early on after hey was reported missing in the early evening but they can't reach him until 1:30 in the morning and when they finally get to talk to him he says that he was working at the time he went missing but not

not working at his normal LensCrafters location he was filling in at another location was he working till 1:30 in the morning why couldn't they get ahold of him no LensCrafters isn't open that late not a chance no one knows where he was but police eventually call his manager and she verifies that she loaned him out to another store the manager says he was working so police just totally write him off and continue their case against Adnan before the trial adnan's lawyer tried to get Don's employment records to verify his alibi

bye she submits a request for the records which should have been kept secret but somehow the prosecution gets wind of this and they to request the records both of them get a notice from LensCrafters saying like oops sorry we got we got nothing on this guy well prosecutor step in and try to help and poof all of a sudden there are magical records of him working on the 13th are people's alarms going off like crazy at that point no and this feeds back into Adnan not having good representation

and his lawyer did no digging into the magical Alibi and that was a huge mistake because in 2015 the undisclosed team and Bob rough from truth and Justice made some freaking explosive discoveries

this episode was made possible by better help you know one question Britain I get asked a lot is how do you recoup from all of the cases that you talked about like you're living in such Darkness day after day how do you not let it consume you and I have to say it's a healthy mix of Charlie cuddles and having someone professional to talk to we aren't meant to process all of our thoughts and feelings on our own it is healthy to talk to someone else it doesn't have to be about like

dark stuff like kid murder like it might be just about ways to achieve your goals or just things going on in your personal life better help is not a crisis line it's not self-help it's professional counseling done securely online you can ask questions whenever wherever you get timely responses you can even set up weekly phone or video chats with a counselor and you guys is the best part it's more affordable than traditional offline counseling and financial aid is available better help once you to start living a happier life

life today so visit better help.com crime junkie that's better help heelp and you can join the over 700,000 people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional again we've got a special offer for Crime junkie listeners you get 10% off your first month just visit better help.com crime Junkie

first legal goddess Susan Simpson who is part of the undisclosed team notices something super off about the time cards that were submitted normally when Don works his ID shows up on his time card as 0 1 6 2 well on January 13th his ID number now shows up as zero zero nine seven only on that day what does that mean well it means for the first time ever Don used another employee ID number

so Barbara from truth and justice decides to do some hardcore investigating on this and what he comes up with is insane LensCrafters isn't a franchise store it's all owned by one company so even if you work at multiple branches your ID would travel with you but okay let's say for some reason they went against company policy and you used to numbers the timesheets given to the prosecution showed that Don worked over 40 hours but got paid no overtime

time which means even though they have this sheet that they gave us proof of an alibi that time worked was never entered into the official pay system okay next strange thing know that manager that vouched for him working turns out that manager is Dawn's mom stop I can't there's more she shouldn't have had access to the time sheets from another store even though they're all connected you can view time cards from another location wait so how did she know he was working then

because the manager at that store where he was filling in happens to be Don's mother's girlfriend at the time who she later married what his Alibi was his mom and his stepmom yeah but police never knew this because they didn't dig enough how in there's a lot more they would have found out if they kept digging into the timecard issues so his mom had worked there for a long time and her ID number was zero one one zero she'd been there a few

you years and as employees get hired you would get sequentially higher numbers for every new employee the new ID number that Don used that day that hey went missing was zero zero nine seven which is a lower number than his mom's 0 1 1 0 which means even if for some reason they went against normal company policy and issued him a new number there's no way they would have issued him a number that was lower than his mom's who've been working there for

oh my God Bret there's still more that shift that he was filling in for wasn't even really a shift he was supposedly filling in as a lab tech from 9 to 6 but it wasn't a thing the earliest lab tech position that they ever had on their schedule started at 11 and Don uses that ID one more time on January 16th and again he reports working that mysterious go shift that doesn't exist this looks so bad for Dawn

on but maybe his mom was worried that he'd be a suspect and when they found hey murdered she changed his time card so he wouldn't get grilled by the police I mean we saw how police railroaded odd none maybe she knew the police were corrupt and wanted to protect him that could have been Bob also learned that you're not supposed to report to a relative at LensCrafters so it was technically against the rules that he was working for his mom so maybe they were even just trying to cover that up and that seems innocent enough but I know

you well enough to know that you're not done no another thing you need to know is that the timesheets at LensCrafters could be changed but only up until a point you have to make the changes within one week of the pay period closing so what are you saying I'm saying that based on what we have it's likely he didn't work using that other ID he's probably lying so his mom would have had to fake the records but

she didn't fake them when adnan's lawyer asked for them or after police had found his body she would have had to fake them no later than January 22nd wait so they change his time card before anyone even knew he was dead yep and the 22nd happens to also be the first time Don was officially interviewed by police and if I remember correctly he was one of the people that suggested that maybe hey went off to California when she was missing right

yeah that story might have come from him so if he doesn't think she's dead why is he changing his time card so soon after she disappeared and why could no one get in touch with him until 1:30 in the morning the day that she went missing I want to be very very clear I am not saying that Don did it what I'm trying to point out is that police didn't do their job if they would have looked into anyone else half as hard as they looked into Adnan they would have found this out back in 1999

maybe it was innocent maybe not but we can a hundred percent say that police did a terrible job at investigating and the justice system railroaded and on and you guys there is so much more like this like did you know there was a rope found at the scene just a few inches from Hays body and the medical examiner actually said in court she could have been strangled with a rope but that rope was never even tested and I could go on and on forever about this case but I feel like people have enough information now to at least see

there's so much more to this than cereal presented so I know we hit our four points but can I bring up a few of the arguments that I see discussed online all the time I like to just address them now instead of fighting with people on Twitter sure the first is that people keep saying Adnan all of a sudden doesn't want the DNA to be tested they say when Cyril was going on he was all for it but when it came time to push for a retrial he's backed up and now he doesn't want to test it and people who say this are always like see he knows

it's going to come back as his DNA if he was innocent he would want the test done those comments always make my blood boil because again it's people talking without being informed Adnan and his supporters would very much like to have the DNA evidence tested but here's the thing when they were going for a new trial they had to pick their strongest case they knew that they had a slam dunk with that AT&T fax cover sheet and Asia Maclean's testimony which both amounted to an ineffective assistance of counsel they had to hang their hat on

that one unified argument instead of going in all scatterbrained if they would have picked the DNA as their argument and gotten that tested the chances of winning were super slim because here's the thing even though Adnan and his team know it won't come back with his DNA having it come back with someone else's won't necessarily help adnan's case at all I'm not sure I get what you're saying I feel like if they found DNA on that brandy bottle or rope near her body it would prove Adnan wasn't the one who left them there

right it would prove that he didn't leave those items there but if the state found that it didn't match Adnan all they would have to say is OC like that's why we didn't even bother getting it tested in the first place it's just trash it has nothing to do with the case and Adnan still the killer proving someone else killed hey because of discarded items near her body would be such a long shot to overturn a conviction on so they didn't go with the DNA they hung their hat on the ineffective assistance of counsel and good call on their part because it worked and if

is a new trial I'm very sure that the DNA will eventually be tested people also point to add man's demeanor on the phone with Sarah caning throughout cereal they say he doesn't sound like someone who's defending himself they always give the well if it were me if it were me tweet what people forget is a non was not being interviewed by the host of a globally popular podcast in fact most people in the general public were not talking about podcast in 2013 or 2014 when she was interviewing him

him he likely saw Sarah as just one more journalists interviewing him one more person who couldn't even decide if she was on his side or not it's at least my belief that he'd been beat down and run over by the system so much that at that point he wasn't going to get worked up for someone who might end up telling a story that would hurt his case rather than help it he didn't know Sarah and he couldn't have known what cereal was going to turn into no one knew if he would have known that this podcast was actually going to be heard by hundreds of Millions

of people and it had the potential to change the outcome of his whole life who knows he may have acted differently but even if he wouldn't have acted differently people who listen to us know we are very firm on the idea that you cannot judge someone until you walk a mile in their shoes and you have no idea how they're going to react yeah no one listening right now is Adnan no one but odd none has the right to speak to his demeanor I totally agree the last thing I see all the time is that people will harass odd on supporters by saying that we're all getting our facts from a

bias Source mainly Rabia who brought the story to say our caning who started undisclosed and who wrote the book on Adnan story people who think that I will never waste my time arguing with first off sure of course Rabia is team Adnan but if we are going to recognize by a c's let's also face the fact that the police and prosecution in Baltimore have a very strong bias in the opposite direction the way this investigation was conducted shows some serious misconduct jobs and

Haitians are on the line for some of them so don't tell me they're only worried about the facts and they don't have an agenda of their own so no going in knowing that each side has a bias then we just have to go off of who has the facts on their side and that's Adnan the state does not have facts all the state has is Jay and I even see that come up over and over online people keep saying well the state's witness this in the state's witness that that's all they have in the state's witness doesn't mean anything it's really hard for me to understand how people keep pointing to J as

the reason nuns guilty I feel like if anyone's working off a blind bias it's the state yeah so either we need to like agree maybe both people have biases and then just not be talking about this or we need to move on and realize that probably Rabia like sign on but she's working with facts here and there is so much more I want to cover but you now have the most important information about this case and hopefully you're able to understand why Adnan got a new trial and what you can expect from his new trial if they go to trial at all

all I mean really Jay and those sell paintings were the whole case what would the prosecution story even be they have to stick to the same story or the defense will just rip them to shreds for changing and if they change the defense will rip them to shreds for putting someone in jail on the basis of something they knew was bogus I just have no idea what their plan will even be I have no clue either but you better believe I'm watching that trial like a hawk along with the rest of Team Adnan and I hope we got a couple of new team Adnan people on board today if you

I have a friend who listened to serial make sure you share this episode with them and before the trial starts if there is a new trial I really encourage everyone take a deeper look into this case you can listen to the undisclosed podcast they cover adnan's case in season one and they have gone on to cover other wrongful convictions in future Seasons you can also read the amazing blogs done by their host Robbie a Chaudhary blogs on split the moon Susan Simpson blogs on the view from El L 2 and call

Miller blogs on evidence Prof blog I will put links to all of those on our site they have copies of Court transcripts and pictures it is a wealth of information and don't forget to check out truth and Justice as well Bob covered adnan's case in season 1 and right now he's covering the West Memphis Three case and finally if you want to consolidate a narrative on this case please go get Ravi at Audrey's book called Adnan story you can actually get it for free and help support our podcast just go to audibletrial.com/preneurcast

dot-com / crying junkie and don't forget to visit our website for more information on today's episode you can go there at crying Genki podcast.com and go visit us on Twitter at crime junkie pod tweet us and tell us what you thought of this episode and be sure to use the hashtag free Adnan

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