#808 - Michael Wood, Jr.

Jun 13, 2016

Michael A. Wood, Jr. is a retired Baltimore police officer and veteran of the USMC. He previously made the news for publicly speaking out against police brutality and has become a proponent of a new era of policing. A young man who met Michael as a child, when Michael was a cop volunteering a recreation center, found Michael to talk about how much the experience affected him as well. He's now trying to continue his growth, please help him here: http:///gofundme.com/domstrip2cuba

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jr. and Michael would you might recognize his name was on my podcast about a year ago he is a retired Baltimore Police sergeant and he very interesting guy very bright and outspoken about the problems with not just law enforcement but institutional racism that he found inside a Baltimore and is now really working hard to promote a positive message and to offer some solutions to some of the

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problems that he found while he was in law enforcement and some of the problems that he sees all throughout the world today in terms of whether it comes to crime or drug use or giving people a positive direction towards the future really really good dude I enjoy having him on I really enjoyed talking to them so please welcome Michael Wood

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The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day

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yes and we're live welcome back mr. wood thanks for having me all right buddy it good it's been a wild year for people don't know Michael was a former you were fought well you never really have form a marine right isn't that one of those things where your Marine you stay Marine Oak like by that that was a very you know if I would have stayed maybe but for the Marines who agree with that okay you were a marine former Sergeant in the Baltimore Police Department and you came on the podcast while

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I can expose some pretty eye-opening information about how the the whole system sort of works in this sort of a kind of a closed loop in Baltimore where the same neighborhoods are having the same kind of crime in the same sort of scenarios over and over again and that was a really important podcast for me and it was a really important podcast for a lot of people that listen to it because they got exposed to

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the inner workings of police department's by someone whose you mean I was really happy how honest you were about all of it about the thrill of chasing people and all of the the cool stuff about it and we scheduled this podcast quite a while ago and it's kind of crazy that you're coming in the weekend after these insane shootings in Orlando and I'm absolutely not happy that that happened but I'm

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happy is happy that could be that you're here while this is all going down and we get to kind of talk about

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these these moments these insane moments that happen it seems like every few months or so some new insane moment happens where some person usually a man blows a fucking fuse and winds up killing it a ton of people I don't know what if anything and I'm hoping maybe you'll have some insight what if anything could ever be done to stop something like this

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well this is where we get into the microbes the dirty liberal thing and and we're going to start talking about gun control because I don't know what else we can talk about your only other option is to continue a cycle of more and more Force upon one another so what we know for sure without a doubt that the path were on it is only a matter of time before this record is broken

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right so what we're doing will result in that but we have this anti-intellectualism in America that just won't take that evidence and apply it to what we know is going to be the end result like we have countries that have done gun control they don't have mass shootings we have mass shootings literally on The Daily in America you just don't hear about them all so when a mass shooting is generally characterized three or four more casualties something like that but this happens

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day in the cities those are really yeah you don't hear about it well when it's a backyard barbecue shooting in the run right yeah so you can think of it is that a lot of people don't categorize those as mass shootings because we think of mass shootings is someone going into a crowded place and killing a bunch of civilians or are innocent people I should say whereas they think of those kind of shootings in the hood as rival gangs people competing over drug-dealing territory things along those lines

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which is another point because you were running for you wanted to be the head of police of Chicago is that still going on no I mean they certainly the corruption went in and so we could tell that story real quick what they did is they did a national search so the laws in Chicago said that this appoint police board has to do a nationwide search and then they give three names to the mayor the mayor investigates those people and

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and chooses one so I predicted they weren't going to go with me I'm too far ahead still that no one's really ready to take that bite yet but it's still something we could have talked about and they would have had the opportunity I figured they would pick that the I figured pick a black guy who was educated and not from Chicago that was my prediction and that's who the police board did choose they chose a guy from Atlanta who fit that bill to

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see he was going to be the black guy that represents the police department but still totes they're lying I'm thinking of a word that everybody knows and I'm just not saying it so you can all pick up on what I'm suggesting you're saying Uncle Tom yeah and and some people have an Uncle Tom he's a nice guy so if you have an uncle and his name is Tom don't worry about it so that's what they're going to look for something that will visually seem satisfying I say okay and structurally be exactly the same

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they so they chose that guy and the mayor are still said yeah I don't want that guy I'm gonna choose this guy that didn't apply and that's the commissioner so who is this guy that didn't apply he was couple ranks down already in the agency he is he said that he has never seen misconduct or corruption in the Chicago Police Department his entire 20-some year career he is intimately tied into

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they cheating scandal on the promotional test another thing that you could solve easily so his friends like wife or something got number one to Lieutenant's test which is extremely qualifying says a and as soon as the information comes down that he actually was the one that was developing the test had the answers and then she gets this super high score out of nowhere and you know as well as

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devices oh come on we've seen this before we know what it is right so you can solve it you could retest them right and see who does it but the first of course not so they're not going to do that's right they have any interest in exposing things so if I'm going to come in there and I'm going to say all right that's it we're going to be transparent I don't think they're okay so now when you say that you were a little too far ahead what do you mean by that well it seems the people of a city or of any area have to be pushed hard enough

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to have that change like they have to have that breaking point where they say that's it we're going to do something different because what I really push is for civilian controlled policing I want you guys to tell me what what should be done which is a huge drop in power so that's that would require a mayor that's willing to give in to the people that have pushed hard enough to say look I'm going to relinquish control of my Essential armed wing and I'm going to give it to the people and so

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never been done before not that I'm aware of not in America it certainly hasn't so who's going to be the city that takes that leap it has to come it has to we all know it so it's a matter of who well what they've tried to do in some areas like in New Jersey in particular is force these people to integrate more into the community make them walk the beat which is like you don't hear about that anymore now everyone's in a car and you're driving around this closed up vehicle whereas before everybody was walking around and you were sort of like

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oh there's officer Mike you know he's a part of the community and it get it became normal to see these people they develop friendships with the people that were in their neighborhood that there are patrolling and it's sort of ingratiated them more I think having a bunch of people that you don't know patrolling your streets with guns in a car just driving around and you know hardly ever getting out unless they're arresting somebody that's that's a little odd right well yeah but I don't see that that the the

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Patrol is the solution to that because what they do is they put a facade on it so they make it look like foot patrol but it still has his essential underpinnings of being motivated to go and make arrests and to get the stats so I did for patrol for like six months and that's what it was it was just being thrown in to get drug arrest I didn't know anybody or meet anybody it was still those same pushing to get somebody put them in a prison cell

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do the paperwork go back out and do it again so what we really need is to change the incentives and disincentives so that no matter what the role were still going towards that objective that actually serves you right I had Dave Smith in the other day excuse me Dave Smith is a hilarious stand-up comedian and he's also on this podcast called Legion of skanks he's a Libertarian very smart guy but he was he was bringing up a point about New York after the shootings in New York were

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cops had gotten shot there was this sort of cool-off period where they had just stopped arresting people for bullshit and the bullshit arrests like loose cigarettes things along those lines just dropped substantially and people were really excited about that there were like look this is like a good step like this is really how it should be the police shouldn't be glorified Revenue collectors just arresting people for the the taxes loss

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estan loose cigarettes and that's what killed Eric Garner right precisely yeah I mean it's disgusting it's not it's not policing because not hurting anybody policing should be

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protecting and serving right I shouldn't really glad that you brought up that instance in New York so what that is is direct evidence against with the head of the FBI has said Comey who's come in and he's pushing this Ferguson effect right so the idea around there saying oh we have crime going up in these different neighborhoods because this is Ferguson effect that the cops are laying back so they're not being as proactive and because they're not being as proactive then they're not locking people up so so stats are going up and

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know that if you have a theory and there's one situation that says your theories complete crap well your Theory's complete crap and that's what New York was so New York they step back and they wanted to be like oh look how much you need us and didn't work that's didn't show that the statute lower crime they had less calls for service everybody was happier with what was going on because that is its we want to say that policing should prevent things

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and it's just not possible police are there to clean things up and to investigate after the fact every arrest should be viewed as a failure of the system we shouldn't praise an arrest that is when we failed that's an interesting way of looking at it I think another way to look at it that's maybe more more common ground is your fucking with people when you're when you're around them all the time and you like what's going on over there boys you know like that kind of shit you're fucking with them you're creating tension and

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tension creates arguments it creates crime it creates resentment it creates anger all those things contribute to Crime a hundred percent and when you fuck with people over loose cigarettes or any sort of nonsense petty crime that nobody gives a shit about that kind of stuff isn't it's not good for anybody it's not good for the relationship that police have was citizens it's not good for the perception of the citizens of the way they view the police it makes them view the police as these these thugs which citizens though a significant amount

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Mount and the citizens in this country very much like that the facts that police do that well did they don't live there right but if they were poor and they lived in those communities they wouldn't feel like right so that's you always do this you hit on these big issues because you're just like well wait this is obvious it's right in front of our face yeah and what they're doing is they they are funded and you know so you have a mayor in Baltimore the mayor directs the police department's way no matter what city you're in and

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but that person is doing is they're serving those those rich people they're serving the mass voters of the area who just had that mentality still that they want those animals caged in the Penniman and keep them there so as long as it doesn't affect us then who cares right that's really what you're hitting on there is that they

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I don't know that more of this country doesn't want our police to be that way I think they are happy about it I think you're probably right but I think they're misinformed and I think they have this this incorrect understanding of how that affects the people that these cops are interacting with and that it actually does probably create more crime and then on top of that I think there's also the problem with that those people that are in those poor

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could just as easily be you or I if we were born to those situations and we're talking about like giving people an opportunity to get out giving people possibility to get out and do better and improve their situation their standing in life well if they're getting fucked with all the time that's not going to happen if they're in a terrible poverty Laden crime Laden Community good luck with that good luck getting added that it becomes almost insurmountable and I think it's real

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vignette for people to be outside of that and look at those folks and go well those people need to stop doing crime what you need to do is just lock them all up well it's that doesn't seem to make sense it seems much more likely that the best way to handle that is to lock them up less and to sort of somehow another try to calm that area down and I don't know how you would do it I mean whether it's through some Universal basic income idea which I've been paying a lot of attention to that lately and trying to

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or those ideas and see if I can read my own economy a socialist and you're talking about minimum wasn't my idea was you know was an idea that Eddie Huang brought up on the podcast and I initially laughed at them I was like what nobody's gonna fucking go for that and then I started reading some articles on it and I started thinking about it and the financially the issue is where does that money come from and you're obviously going to it's a shit ton of money that's going to have to somehow or another come out of something else and I'm not a I'm not a financial person I don't understand

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and economy I'm not an economist so I'm not the person to do the the numbers but when I think about it like objectively as far as far from a social stance when people have less problems when bills are paid easier when they're more relaxed as far as like we're Foods coming from where you know what basic needs are covered they're less likely to commit crime so it just makes sense that you would have to spend less money on law enforcement

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I meant less money on prisons less money on jails and that perhaps that could translate there was a great article written by see if you could find a Jamie's is some prominent libertarian who wrote this piece about Universal basic income it's the idea is essentially giving people $13,000 a year and if you give Americans thoroughly knows essentially a thousand bucks plus a month and then if you did that you would take care of a shitload of problems that we have in inner cities and crime and all this and

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he sort of outlined it and made a pretty interesting case for this idea but of course you've got a lot of people that want to go on and on about welfare babies and and people that are juking the system and buying cigarettes with food stamps and you know things along those lines but it's like this callous sort of approach to dealing with really poor people and really bad neighborhoods and one of the things that you brought up about Baltimore that made it

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so disturbing was that black people had to buy houses in these areas they would not sell houses in certain areas to black people and that this was like a law and this was actually written to this is not not like everybody conspired this was something that they actively set out to do they this idea of caging them keeping them in they literally did that through paperwork right and that's so things that you're talking about and like that sociology

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is that that has that study we know these things so what you are observing is is things that the scholarly Community has known for a long time and is trying to get these things out there so that people understand this it's not even a matter of how much is this going to cost because we're already spending the money we're spending a lot more this book that's why I brought it with me cuz I just finished going through it it's just put out so this is by Johns Hopkins researcher and Stephanie to Luke

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he's a friend of mine you know so everybody knows that I am saying it but she they did a study they followed Baltimore youth around for well over a decade I think was like 15 16 years and their paths that they go through and part of that was it cost twenty seven billion dollars to America every single year for disconnected youth so that's just youth that don't have a drive and don't have a focus or how is that money

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how does a trickle down so what they do is billion so they don't chase things right so you get stuck in this purpose this idea that you can't escape this neighborhood because we have so many blockades in the way there are stories that go through they track like a hundred some people parents having kids in these neighborhoods and moving them out and what happened to him and the two biggest pushers for the success of these of any kid in these cities was that they had an identity project which

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means they are finding their passion and what they're going to go towards because they don't know these passions they don't know that a photographer like Devin Allen A friend of mine in Baltimore can come out and do things for their community and can actually achieve that dream so once they see it and it's possible and you start taking the hurdles down like the hurdles of where they live and the hurdles of the arrest for the bag of weed or for like you said the talking yourself into jail because

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was the cops messing with you every single day and your saturated police needs neighborhoods you start taking down these barriers and these kids Excel and that's it goes completely against the narrative that we're hearing that these kids don't have motivation and they can't push out 80% of these kids that grow up in the city never touch the streets or have anything to do with it they're getting high school degrees at fought for five hundred percent the rate of their parents it's just that what we keep doing as we keep getting them behind and they're still fighting super hard

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but we're still throwing more and more hurdles in their way so the money that you're talking about how much it costs for these disconnected use this is all in prisons and this isn't even prison what is this is just the lack of their product productivity from achieving what they can achieve and what it's costing us to you know then take care of what the The Fallout is in that that just that microcosm we're not throwing in locking up everybody else we're not

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throwing in the parents we're not throwing in all this other stuff just you that don't have a passion well this is one of the subjects is come up over and over again on this podcast because I've always tried to figure out what it is that keeps people from trying to build socially engineer these these environments and make them better for the people that live there like we're always concentrating on all these other countries we're concentrating on you know helping Afghanistan and rebuilding Iraq and all the

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stuff that we do humanitarian efforts all over the world right what about our own inner cities I think these do I think they're misguided it so what we end up doing is we have this idea that were rich and often white and we're going to come in and we're going to like have the handout over going to give them what we want to we're going to show them the right way and that's not the answer the answer is to ask what they want and provide the structure and platform for that to take place so

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when these smart people that haven't been in there they'll look at Stats and they'll look at the paperwork and they'll say oh we just need to move people out and relocate them or we need to the idea was all right we'll we'll put them in this big tower and we're have resources around them and everything will be fine and we're make sure they have their own Police Department so everything will be would be good but then the police start locking everybody up and you just you get into that cycle again because you're not giving the identity project even to I

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adults where you can say whether it's comedy or whether it's photography or no matter what you have to have that goal that Vision because the all they see is that their future is in dealing or in a prison cell and they keep being told that they do the right things they can move on but when they do the right things are sometimes good intentions have put up the roadblocks that prevent them from doing that so what but how do you sort of

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near for lack of a better term a whole society like how do you give them goals how do you how do you expose them to all these possibilities and how do you set up pass you just said the word expose their isolated they don't know right but what how do you do that I think social media is helping a ton so they can see and interact with people that are different from them and they can see oh look this kid from New York he did get into this school and

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has this job now and now I can maybe go work for his company or whatever it is they see these examples of success and then they start to pick them up and chase them and that's what these the stats and all this book or showing that it's staggering how much effort these kids are putting in to their goals it's just that we're actually setting up the prevention of it by doing things like okay we charge a black kid in the

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the city you know you charge him he commits a homicide because he was defending his sister from getting raped but when he gets a prison sentence we know that that prison sentence just slams him but when it's a white kid from Stanford you know what happens so it's kind of this I don't want to push empathy all the time but there is that that empathy angle but it's just kind of helping people get where they want to get instead of pushing them where you think they should be they'll find their own

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just like which we treat poor people like their children and they're not they're poor people there's a dude who works at The Comedy Store who was a criminal defense attorney and he resigned he stopped doing it because he got tired of his when he was bringing cases to trial if it was a white guy the white guy would get you know whatever six months for an identical crime a young black guy would get 10 years and he was like you've got to someone's got to tell me what the

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fuck is going on here because all I'm looking at is systemic racism I'm looking at institutional racism he was like this is just over and over and over again I'm confronted by the same kind of people the same age brackets but completely different types of sentences and what's the mentality behind and he said everybody wanted to just bury their head in the sand and he couldn't do it anymore it was so strong I mean when the guy talks about he's like smoking cigarettes and freaking out because it was just a hewa 10 years of his life and it was just too much couldn't do it anymore

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that kind of shit is almost insurmountable when you you're living in that world and you're one of those people that get sent down the river for 10 years for something that you know if you were a white Irish kid you would get six months or you know a much lesser sentence that alone is got to be a gigantic hurdle for someone lived in these environments and this is not saying that people shouldn't be punished for crimes they definitely should be punished for crimes

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but for sure about that they also should be well punished absolutely it should be our view is Debbie our view what do you think they should do about murder should punish him or just give him a hug it was certainly depend on the situation but I can't help but keep coming back to the fundamental idea that our criminal justice system is based on punishment like that's not a moral system it's like the death penalty right we know that these things don't work so now do they get right taken away so what I

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like to see is let's take for instance we know that it costs so and so thousands of dollars a year to house somebody thinks 24,000 depends on where you are though so a college degree from an online school that's accredited which we can all do easily right now would cost way less than that so put them in a in a cell and you keep them around but you treat them like human beings you give them an identity or goal where they can achieve something they actually because right now we sit them into a prison of punishment and what

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happens when they come out they're in a worse situation so now we've created a greater criminal than we had before right so our goal is supposed to be some kind of Rehabilitation that this is a better person when they leave then when they go in but we have that in us we want these fuckers to pay well certainly for murder I mean for the families of someone that they victimized they don't want this person to come out better not even on victims feel that way though hmm you know and it's so there are plenty of murder victims who

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who their parents have gone and asked for leniency for the person or ask the not give him the death penalty because that's pretty fucking where are they it is yes yes most people want revenge yeah but we have to look beyond that because you know when your sister gets in a fight and kills your neighbor who's your friend or something like that you're not asking for the death penalty right because it's close to you well that's what is others we do that to others we wouldn't do that to the ones we know well threats to society those deaths

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a real issue with some people white black whatever someone's a subset of sociopath seems a psycho there are threat to society like the guy who killed all those people in the theater in Denver that's a psycho and that that guy needs to be locked up forever just right she okay not need to know about and is well what do you do about a person like that I mean how do you how do you take a person like that and you give them goals in prison do you try to give them an education mean obviously yeah I'm gonna do that so think about that he could become not not him obviously like saying he has mental illness but somebody else

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you could educate them while they're there and they can contribute to literature review contribute to science they can give back to some Society in some way is that financially feasible how much more money would it take to make prison a safer environment for people that are locked up I mean we're the idea is that we're supposed to be protecting the rest of us from those these people that have committed these awful crimes right someone's committed rape someone has committed murder armed robbery we separate them from us because we don't want them to victimize any more people then

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goal number two is Rehabilitation and that goal is overwhelmingly a failure overwhelmingly if you look at the statistics if we should have written and it's been attempted yeah that's good good point I mean well there are it mean Rick Ross the guy we've had on before the real Rick Ross not the rapper guy he mean he learned how to read and literally figured out what was wrong with his case in prison he not offers do that though a lot of them won't give them any access that some do you know so there are Wardens

► 00:37:12

out there that are progressive and are thinking of these things so that shouldn't really be on the warden Honda should be some sort of a standard Nationwide where we should look at it as a culture as a society as a civilization and say hey you know what what should we be trying to do to try to make these people better people right and you do that when you arrest them though so what we say now is when he goes and shoots or when someone rapes we're not looking at that as that failure so if you if you were running this business and an acid a fast of your

► 00:37:42

has failed then you would want to have an analysis and you would want to say alright let's do a regression and figure out what went wrong and you would want to fix that for the next time but we don't do that we just go all right throw that one away and continue path is normal we shouldn't be so focused when we arrest somebody to figure out how we're going to throw them away from the longest we should be figuring out why it happened so we can prevent it for the next person but we this was it doesn't seem like we actually care about solving the

► 00:38:12

we're just keeping these wheels turning so if you commit murder then I want to know why I want to know the scenarios that led you up to that because the only way that I can actually prevent that is not Minority Report it's finding out what that hurdle was that moment that you said fuck this and finding ways to prevent that as much as possible or reduce it for other people and a lot of it must have to do with the developmental period that you go through when you're a young person and what you're exposed to as a small child I mean it hand

► 00:38:42

that stuff's become so deeply ingrained in a person's mind to try to reverse that boy is so much harder than to try to raise someone correctly the first time all that's in this book they talk about that is coming of age in the other America that mean they talk about these things where that's one of the the predictors is how much exposure to violence that these kids have had when they were going between the ages of 0 and 10 hmm and so when they got them out of the city and they gave him opportunities then they

► 00:39:12

got exposed to less violence the really crazy thing in this study is that we found out that the kids that were in the stage City that didn't get help they also fought their way out and actually a higher rate so we did these nice things and we have to tweak it but like are nice things that we did actually didn't pan out in the same results as kids that were just fighting on their own so explain that yeah it's wild so they had these Housing Voucher programs where they would the ideals that take people out of those neighborhoods

► 00:39:42

and put them into nicer neighborhoods where they would be exposed to less things and have neighbors around that did things and those that was very beneficial when that happened but about an equal percentage of those kids went back and it up being in the low come areas and get involved into the streets and then the ones at fault themselves out on their own and it up at a higher slightly higher percentage actually getting out and being exposed to less because of their own individual efforts in the control group trying to get out of there so

► 00:40:12

it says that the program's need some tweaking but it shows that that it's counter narrative that these kids aren't trying and that's are not succeeding to get out like they are pushing super hard to make something of themselves and and our cultural idea is like all of these kids are not doing things they're just turning to drugs and they're just dealing and surprisingly they're not it is 12 percent of the kids raised in Baltimore in this study ever spent and these are in the worst neighborhoods is he

► 00:40:42

in West Baltimore ever spent a moment on the streets doing any criminal activity 12% staggering I'm have shocked I feel dumb because I did the same things like yo that's all they're exposed to right but it's uh it's not there fighting out like crazy and were the ones stopping them from coming to fruition well not us Society were responsible right like so what are we I mean here's the thing is like how much effort is actually being done to try to fix this I mean how many people are actually thinking about it how much

► 00:41:12

money is actually being spent to try to fix this it seems like there's so many problems in the world that the concentrate on bad neighborhoods or crime-ridden neighborhoods it's so low on the list of things the world's worried about the polar ice caps are melting polar bears are drowning you know with this there's so much shit we're worried about on top of that they're trying hard as hell to keep it the way it is though it was trying hard governments are in Baltimore for example there's this this patented thing that

► 00:41:43

a professor from Morgan State Lawrence Brown is really into this and tracks it all down but there's a white L we called the white Ellen Baltimore it goes down through the rich neighborhood and comes across to the other rich neighborhoods by the bay and then there's the Black Butterfly which comes off to the side season was Baltimore and it looks like butterfly wings dispersing out poverty and black people in the city and what this is in every single aspect that you're going to find where that where the money goes for

► 00:42:12

schools where the bus routes are where the free bus is like the white neighborhoods have a free bus and the black neighborhoods have to pay for their bus yes so we have all these things that no matter what you think of this whiteout in this black butterfly come to fruition on where resources are allocated and what problems are how is that possible that white people don't have to pay for the bus in the black people do that seems ridiculous when we tell you that they it's the neighborhood because a reason for the neighborhoods you know so they're not

► 00:42:42

at serving the white people they're serving those upper-class neighborhood but is it an inn is it a tax issue is a property tax issue where they spent money for the bus has no Baltimore City so I'm honestly so how the fuck do they justify that they just do it like and nobody cares I mean it's so people should follow him it's at be more doc on Twitter he he lays this out in so many different Avenues you you just you have to be willfully ignorant not realize that this is going on at be more DLC

► 00:43:12

mmm okay that's that's insane know how much of it is dealing with prison guard unions and and police unions that are trying to keep business as usual because that keeps people employed well that's a significant portion in your seeing that with the NRA you're seeing that with the this police unions and like you said the correctional unions where and like see even them they don't have these bad intentions what they have is job preservation

► 00:43:42

Ian everything comes back to those incentives and disincentives so they're fighting for their job and that's all they're thinking what we want jobs we want safer conditions I want to make sure that this is a big company that blows up so they're going to put their money towards politicians that support them and that's just the way it goes is ways always been as long as we have money in politics you can't get away from that well the most transparent example that is marijuana that we've shown time and time again with million different studies that marijuana is not dangerous or if it is dangerous the danger that it had

► 00:44:12

Moses is so minimal it's so small that the consenting adults should be able to do whatever the fuck they want with it and yet prison guard unions and police unions still Lobby to keep the drug laws exactly the same way they are because that ensures you're going to need a certain amount of guards you're going to need a certain amount of police officers that's counterintuitive it mean that's that's dangerous for a society because that sets up this US versus them mentality where it doesn't need to be

► 00:44:42

where you're telling people there's a certain forbidden plant that they're not allowed to use we've decided this we're going to keep it this way even though it's completely illogical even though we know the history of it and we're going to do it simply because people want to keep their jobs instead of trying to figure out what other jobs these people can do like this shouldn't there be a way you could take some of these people that are prison guards or police officers and give them a job with a commensurate income that's

► 00:45:12

didn't helping communities something positive something setting up Community programs I mean how many guys that are cops were also into martial arts or into fitness or into something else or you know anything where they could teach people in these communities set up community centers and give people high-paying jobs to establish really good environments for development and for growing and give people a chance to be exposed to maybe one of these things that could be these paths that you were talking about yeah

► 00:45:42

I mean that I have obviously I'm gonna have zero objection to that that mean that's a great way of going about it and cannabis is obviously the shining example of complete illogic they just did a new study where they tracked people for 30 years you know what health problems they found what gingivitis bad breath yeah they just didn't brush your teeth with as much yeah hippies didn't brush her so keep breath hippies that's the that's the study people said they said the same thing like but that probably just because great segment of the population

► 00:46:12

yeah and it doesn't have anything to do with the Cannabis that's hilarious so we know without a doubt that that that's the case but what we can do so say you still want to do that and we only have to change them that far to get them away from the drug or even though that's probably the biggest chunk that's fucking everything up is the drug war but if we spend that money instead of incarcerating them we can spend the money and education so for every million dollars that spent fighting the drug war on the supply side there's a 100 kilogram

► 00:46:42

reduction of Supply so if you have you know the kilograms of cocaine coming over the Border if you fight it with Force you know you fight the supply side then you get a 10 gram read a kilogram reduction but if you spend that same million dollars on the demand side educating people you have a reduction of a hundred kilograms whoa so we that's enough where's this from I don't know hate somebody can look it up it's really easy you'll find it right away that's very logical don't I believe it makes sense to me so we know that

► 00:47:12

if you just educate people and tobacco is the shining example of that is tobacco rates have gone down like crazy now let's take the hair Gardner situation out of that the large part of that has been because of education so you educate people out of drugs educated people you know like they say all the time if heroines on Amazon right now do you order it no I don't order it I don't know about Jamie I'm a gentleman's heroin freaking loves it gets a bunch of different styles and mixes them up so it's prohibition that mess

► 00:47:42

us up yeah and we know that and when you have prohibition you are not determining what happens to the drugs all you're doing is determining who is Distributing the drugs because they will be distributed the question is is the government and ie the people doing the distribution or is it the black market the gangs in the mafia well as long as it's under prohibition is the black market the gangs and the mafia we literally know this there's nothing to discuss yet we continue

► 00:48:12

you with this anti intellectualism and denial that's kind of its runs throughout our society in America speaking you know about the guns and we're dealing with the same thing where it's just constant we have evidence we can prove things empirically and we still just continue to do the opposite for reasons I just can't get my mind wrapped around like it's work I feel like I'm fighting denial and it's been like a year that I fighting this denial and talking on

► 00:48:42

radio shows constantly but yet you know a couple months ago we pull up the internet and the FBI director is pushing the Ferguson effect and it was like fuck like yeah we get past this well I think we're dealing with two completely different subjects right the the gun control subject is a very different subject than trying to figure out how to elevate people in bad neighborhoods the gun control subject is you know if you look at the statistics of how many Americans have gone

► 00:49:12

and how many rounds of ammunition there are how many armed people there are in this country and then you look at how many crimes there are how many gun shootings are it's relatively small very small we're dealing with massive numbers of people compare yeah I mean if you this 300 million that thought just finished okay there's 300 million plus people in this country so if you look at this this blip on the map where every few months someone goes fucking crazy and kills a bunch of people if we

► 00:49:42

we really had an armed problem in this country the logic that the anti gun control people use would be that you would see way more shootings and you would see them all the time if we really had a gun control problem you have so many armed people if it was a real issue but the issue what they try to say and I'm not picking the team here but what they try to say is that what we're dealing with is just massive numbers of people massive numbers of people the the

► 00:50:12

over 300 million is so hard for the average person like you or I to wrap our head around what that means in terms of the volume the sheer volume of people and how many guns are out there this is many guns is more guns and there are people in this country which is even more insane and the the people that own these guns for the most part are law-abiding citizens that don't do anything wrong why take away their rights because some dude

► 00:50:42

like this asshole in Orlando goes fucking crazy and kills 50 gay people they said of a couple premises there and if one of them is that they have a right to that weapon right which I'm going to argue to the end of the day that they don't okay the Second Amendment is clear well regulated militia it's literally clear it says it in black and white well regulated militia and even if we go past it and bear arms right even if we go past that forget that I'm not a big fan of the Constitution and leaning on it because the

► 00:51:12

world has changed dramatically wearing a whole new situation rethink with the evidence that we have now let's not rely on the document that's that's it on parchment somewhere decaying right so written with a feather right that's why that they made it amendable so the first thing is that they have that right I don't think they have the right and the second is that that number is acceptable I so what you're trading in there is what are you getting so if you have an equation where they can have these guns so what are you

► 00:51:42

you benefiting and what are you losing tell me what as a society we benefit from handguns and rifles well the people that have been able to protect themselves against dangerous crime the people that have been able to stop people from breaking in their home stealing their property harming them physically or protecting their level so when you talk about ratios there's 30,000 hand gun crimes in America every year right that's it the document it of whatever

► 00:52:12

yes shootings 30,000 so how I thought it was way more than that so if we take the percentage of people that defended themselves I mean you've got five to ten cases a year like that doesn't actually occur but what are they defending themselves against

► 00:52:30

those people with handguns and rifles so you're in the you're trapped in the circular logic where you need a gun because I have a gun and then eventually Jamie says well those fuckers have a gun I want a gun to and we know where that goes we literally know it keeps getting more and more and more now if we have this Perpetual Society where everyone has everything and everything's perfect but that's just not going to happen we're going to have strife and why lot of these guns are

► 00:53:00

in a few people's hands that have 200 guns you know dudes I have 50 guns I know dudes at 50 guns I know I do too have so many guns Justin I'm talking about you motherfucker my buddy Justin has so many guns he doesn't even know how many guns he has right so they have those in class he's a giant 7 feet tall and he has a hundred and fifty thousand fucking guns so they have they have them in a safe or they have them out in Rural America yeah well they're not even like interacting with people like to have the Strife well he's a are a

► 00:53:30

arms Enthusiast and he is also a guy with a squeaky clean criminal record what's the argument against him being able to be a Firearms Enthusiast and possess all these guns because of what it's done to our society you he just wants to have something and I don't want something particularly right here I know but I'm just saying it because he's my friend right so anybody anybody what are you gaining so there's an equation in one one side of this equation we have 30,000 handgun victims we have a society that's gripped by fear we have dude

► 00:54:00

I can go get an AR-15 and Days Later light up a nightclub and do a hate crime we know that that's going to happen and we know that as the future progresses that that this hundred three casualties of this shooting is going to be superseded by a bigger shooting that that's going to happen because you know we got to break the records right so and we're going to have more and more guns that keep coming in and keep coming so that's on the right-hand side of the equation and on your left hand side of the equation for having guns the argument is well I like that well there's

► 00:54:30

also the argument that a well armed Society is a polite society and that a juror people that had guns in that nightclub they would have been able to prevent that crime by taking that guy out the rate cops I mean that was the same thing in Denver like if there were cops there but the cops are running shot but still the cops get to a point where it wasn't there a hostage situation I mean I don't know the details about Florida so it's but if this were true cops wouldn't get killed

► 00:54:56

right they have the biggest army that's on our streets so if more guns we keep having more cops with more and bigger guns than it would stop right because the cops the cops real role in armored vehicles with AR-15s to combat juveniles and we'll Own Madonna and mall during the uprising but don't more cops shoot more criminals than criminal shoot cops don't more cops kill more people that are trying to commit crimes than those people could accomplish that so that's pretty Kate upon the

► 00:55:25

that they're trying to shoot the cops and they're absolutely not we're trying to get away some of them sure do your ones that are actively trying to shoot cops are super smart because you got to remember saying the cops are getting shot they do get shot right right but what I'm saying is yes but isn't that sort of an argument that no not being when there when there is bad when there is one guy with a rifle that he purchased legally and a bunch of cops and a bunch of cops the cops still get shot

► 00:55:52

right but a lot of the beetle one but a lot of those guys that you're talking about this one guys like remember the North Hollywood shootout well I never famous of course arm to the fucking Guild and wearing body armor and all that shit they were the cops were just so outgunned as far as Firepower sure so our answer is that they get more Firepower right now that's not saying those dancers keep having this is one of the reasons why these cops are getting shot they're getting shot and killed in that situation particular because they're

► 00:56:22

on with 38 revolver in your Glock getting shot because that guy has armor and a fucking AR-15 this what I'm saying it's not they don't and adequately armed with their handgun would be perfectly fucking fine if we didn't have AR-15 saturating our streets well that guy I don't even think he had an AR-15 he had something like that song it's all Heavy shit that's all you could yeah so like that's one which by the way is the same gun as an M16 folks it's a military weapon it's the same gun that was created I think it was

► 00:56:52

did in the 50s to deal with the AK-47 there's an HBO series on Real Sports recently that talked about it there they were talking about AR-15 but any two to three can do that damage that's a semi-auto and we get caught up in the assault weapons right right and the assault weapons are going to keep you have a better aim they're going to keep you having a higher magazine capacity to being a little more reliable weapon but a hunting rifle with a 10 magazine Clips that's a 2 to 3 and is the semi-automatic is going to do the exact same

► 00:57:22

level right of damage that we're talking about so my position on gun control is extremely simple you want your guns for these other things like saying hunting and bolt-action rifles and shotguns there you go everything that you can that's on your own the pro-gun side that they want to achieve can all be accomplished by shotguns and bolt action rifles

► 00:57:46

well yeah I see that argument but I also see the argument that Hunters would use in that situation that you if you limit the amount of rounds that a guy can have in his gun or the ability to fire off rounds quickly you're limiting their ability to make a quick follow-up shot on an animal that would kill that animal yeah and so if you have somebody that's that dedicated right I don't have a problem with that personally so if you have somebody that if we want to establish this high standard so say say we have the soup

► 00:58:15

bystander where this guy he can get his big gun that he uses and is well trained on and he's gone through a super long process of backgrounds and he's all checked out that I don't have the objection to that but like say his gun gets stolen you don't get it anymore you're done right so you have to maintain this high standard in order to have such extreme privilege and I'm fine with that like people that have C4 and explosives you know there are people that can legally carry debt

► 00:58:45

cord and C4 to blow up buildings they're not a big problem to the rest of the society using their DET cord and C4 to hurt people so if that's a unique class of individual yeah I see what you're saying so you think that should be more stringent testing and background checks on people that are getting guns yeah especially those kind of high-powered ones or handguns we get caught up a lot in the high power because they're capable of that mass destruction but it's the handguns that caused the

► 00:59:16

fear in society every single day they're so easy to conceal yeah that's the whole problem is the concealment that you can just pop it out and use it you don't know who has what and so everyone becomes a threat because you have this small death device on you that anybody can do anything and it's just like we got to go back to that equation like what is on the other side of the equation of 30,000 handguns and 300 plus mass shootings per year the other side of that equation is is that ridiculous idea I mean if you can figure out

► 00:59:45

out something for me other than I like collecting guns and I think they're cool and it's my right then that I'm willing to hear it I just don't hear an argument beyond that well the only argument is that a person who is not a criminal and a person who doesn't have any ill will in their hearts and just enjoys Firearms should be able to have them just like you should be able to have a truck that you could just drive through a fucking crowd of people with if you wanted to yeah but so the argument there that you can have the truck

► 01:00:16

truck is capable of of harm well so just like a knife but a knife has a drill Ian other uses so on that other side of that equation when the you could say well what do we need a knife for well it's to chop up food it's to skin a deer it's to do a thousand other things the AR or something like that it's for one purpose and one purpose only NASA kill human being well that was what it was designed for but people use them for hunting there's no that right they have a better rifle to use them

► 01:00:45

that for hot well the thing about hunting with those is that you can pull the trigger many times did you like for a hog hunting and things like that there there a lot of people actually prefer them sure so let's say you even want to do that again we're talking about that higher class person and so higher class Hog Hunter yeah higher class I was pretty sure I started actual thing like so you want to go shoot it and you want to shoot those animals right go check it out from your Parks and Rec and go use it to separate out

► 01:01:16

check it out you said you just want to use it right what do you mean by that check it out right so say you can store it in an Armory

► 01:01:23

look at the Armory that who runs the governor's gonna run quite good Lord could be the private the private rifle range okay well that's how it is in a lot of places in Europe why do you think I know how to do this shit we literally other countries have done this Australia's the shining example they had one mass shooting said fuck this and I have none sense right but you can get a rifle in Australia okay and this is something that gets bandied about many times so I actually had to do some research it's not impossible to get rifles for hunting in Australia you could super

► 01:01:53

it's difficult yeah but Australia also has less people than California and an enormous chunk of land yeah but we have other countries take China China's four times our population doesn't doesn't even hit the radar screen on the amount of a prison people they have imprisoned or the amount of violence they have that's true but China is well was until really recently it's a Communist dictatorship that was run with an iron fist it's I mean think about

► 01:02:22

about Tiananmen Square and what happens when people rebel against the government there it's completely different sort of culture is it is it different than what happens here they're like really though I mean if you stand up against the government was going to happen to you it's not just standing up against a government I mean they did the people they don't have much power over there to do it's an oligarchy we live in an oligarchy like we've proven that that's another thing we've proven so Princeton did a study where they track 19 thousand cases of Vols that were going on and going

► 01:02:52

Congress so what they found out is that public opinion on whether a law gets passed or not for instance gun control which over 80% of NRA members agree with increased gun control and background checks and things like that we don't get it passed Congress at all it doesn't have any bearing on public opinion doesn't have any bearing on whether a law gets past but if you have donors that care about a law getting passed then it's going to get passed and even when public sentiment is completely against the law being passed

► 01:03:22

pass if the public if the donors want the law passed they still have a 30% chance of getting law passed I think what the NRA is trying to do is they're trying to prevent the slippery slope they're trying to establish laws and keep them in place so that established rights that are already in place right keep them in place because they worry that if you start increasing background checks if you start ramping up any sort of restrictions on gun owners that it's slippery slope that will

► 01:03:52

never get back they'll never get the freedom back but what I mean I don't know what that freedom is we're all afraid to go somewhere we don't have freedom in this gun saturated country we're we're not well hold on no we're not no we're not we're not don't think people are afraid no I don't think people are generally afraid enemy fighting to keep the gun hold on you're saying we're all afraid as if every day when you go to the movies you're worried about a mass shooting every day when you go to the wall and we're not afraid we travel freely occasionally things like this happen and their horrific and they're terrifying but people

► 01:04:22

aren't generally afraid we're not all afraid to do things I just don't think that's true I don't know so

► 01:04:30

why then would we all want to protect this so much well the NRA's position the NRA's position is that liberals Democrats whatever they want to take away your right to own a gun the NRA does not want that so they spend all their money they do all their lobbying they do everything they can to stop any new restrictions from passing and to stop anyone who is trying

► 01:05:00

take away guns right so the way you frame that is that they are trying to protect their rights and they want to preserve this thing but I don't see it that way a lot of people with those what people that are fighting against guns like so so me I have guns I'd like shooting I enjoy it I'm fucking good at it I made a career out of it right but at one point in time I did enough research and enough understanding that my ultimate goal is that we have a safer Society

► 01:05:30

society and that we protect people but the way we protect people empirically is to not have these guns nobody has the gun crime that we have nobody in the entire world that's a developed country has the gun crime and incarceration rate in everything that we do we are the worst example in the in the developed world of how to do this every other example is a better example than what we do but we're continually trying to stay into into this same MO

► 01:06:00

all that we know is failing I want to protect people and the evidence says that in order to protect people we can't have handguns and assault rifles satchel and that's the damn song Right forward again but we can't have a semi-automatic rifles out there like crazy that enable Society to have that risk I mean those those on the other end of that straight bull is a nine-year-old girl who's bleeding out to death in the city and I just I don't want to give like rude with people but the idea that you want to go fucking shoot

► 01:06:30

something I just don't give a shit about that when you see the destruction close to you is suddenly Gabby Gifford can go for for gun control after it touches you know or somebody like that whenever it touches you suddenly we start to care if to it right now A masked gunman comes and starts shooting up the rest of this building and they they kill Jamie we're all going to care a hell of a lot more why Jamie how come you don't because I didn't want to die dad

► 01:07:00

he's a good guy please nobody shoot Jamie and I think I think we would all take a slightly different perspective I want to cry I think you're right and I think that's an issue with all sorts of crimes and that's also an issue with poverty and bad communities is that it's not touching the people that are that are just want to be safe lock those people up get him off the street during my way I think you're right in that regard I mean I don't know if there is a perfect answer to getting rid of 300 million guns

► 01:07:30

or control don't think you can do it in guns I just was not making them yeah like let's just stop making them so one of my ideas they had done companies will lock them they're making a doctor they're making out dare you making a weapon of death I don't care about what they want so we know guns can last hundreds of years if you take care of them right so if we stopped making them their value all go up hmm and then we'll get it concentrated and I know the Libertarians make oh my God all the rich people are going to hold the guns I get it whatever they're not going to use when we know that so

► 01:08:00

let's make a more valuable so they're not worth $200 on the street so that you know a gun disrespect be for a drug war beef can lead to that shooting I want to have you sit down with someone who's a gun proponent good luck what do you mean good luck I've been here for a year doing this day in and day out challenging everyone from Sam Harris to whoever they're not going to they're not going to do this the evidence is on my side though they're not going to do what they're not going to have a debate because it certainly would I definitely said that that it up okay well I guess

► 01:08:30

it up my friend Justin okay a hundred percent sure that you can get to do is please okay because he needs to give me that push back that other people need to hear and if he's right on a position I will absolutely change okay well we're definitely going to set that up then I'm going to bring in Justin because Justin's very articulate and don't be intimidated because he is a giant he does have a thousand fucking guns or something like that he's a nice guy he's a very nice guys good buddy and he is a like I said and Firearms Enthusiast but also a really nice guy that has no

► 01:09:00

no record never done anything wrong and it's very articulate very smart very well-read but he's going to say that people like him should have the guns right and he's right well he is right yeah I mean he's never done okay with those has it and he's the wrong fucking dude to break into his house every once in a while you're going to need a dude like him to kick down a door right yeah okay we know that so I wouldn't argue if he's going to say he needs you know we need this Elite members of society that like SWAT teams or something like that that can handle these situations of course we do well he's a

► 01:09:29

active shooter does contests and stuff right so he's gonna say well they should shoot like me well I'm sure he's right like if they can handle it and they're professional as him you're not going to get pushed back from society because nothing's going to happen but it's what I'm saying is it he's not doing anything wrong and it's something he enjoys like when do we decide and I'm just putting this out there I'm not taking a stance because I don't understand it myself and you know people saying that I'm anti-gun or pro gun or I'm pretty neutral on this I also own guns but

► 01:10:00

I see the problems I definitely see when something like this happens in Orlando and some crazy fuck can go in and just shoot up a nightclub and kill all these people we got a real problem I don't know how to solve that real problem I'm sure some people would say Concealed Carry Permits so these people in the nightclubs could shoot out that got back together for false false gunfight in a nightclub and more people are gonna get shot well not only that most of the people that get involved in these gunfight

► 01:10:30

we'll be there first gunfight so you're going to fucking shit your pants you're gonna get Target Panic you're going to miss you going to hit people it's gonna be a lot going on but I just say it yeah I mean it's not as simple as Violet a gun he got a gun you'd probably wouldn T be able to point at people and if you pull the trigger you be lucky if you hit someone right in front of you so where where where was that shooting it was relatively recent it was out of college and there were two marines on base on the college campus with weapons and they didn't engage because they

► 01:11:00

said hey look I was only going to make the situation worse the cops weren't going to know who I am if I had my weapon out right I could have missed and done something else and two guys that were in their actual right state of mind that were armed decided that engaging was more dangerous and it's actually empirically more dangerous than if you engage your more likely to die and you're something just you're going to shoot somebody else or the situation is not going to be resolved we literally know this people have done this they've done studies where they've

► 01:11:30

to take people and like simulate it and it never pans out yeah but that's engaging with an instance where you're not involved with you are involved you absolutely have to engage you're going to get shot like if you're if these guys are building air cleaner coming after them you have to run like so all the evidence says that if you run that's your best bet for safety and like we don't want to do that right because that's a bitch move please I'm down for buying a bed someone's shooting I'm all better 100% then there's like this

► 01:12:00

illusion of heroship you know that somebody's going to save the day and sure you may find that happen every so often it's wait a minute have you not seen Sylvester Stallone movies because it happens all the time is that prop that is a problem right in the super problem that the wake of shoot people in the leg while they're running and yeah well it's also like we've developed this sort of idea of what goes down in a gunfight based on fiction not based on reality the amount of people that have actually been exposed to a bullet hitting a live thing

► 01:12:30

is so small sound yeah oh yeah you don't realize how loud that is if you shoot with it with headphones in your whole life then go ahead and start clacking off 15 rounds with without ear protection on your you'll be ringing you can't even understand what's going on you have to be well trained in that environment and understand like cops aren't even in their the first time they get a real gun battle because they shoot with earphones ear plugs in and everything the first time they're shooting their gun is their hearing the sound and everything else so yeah I mean you got those people like

► 01:13:00

that I was in the Marine Corps with doing fast team I don't think they're gonna get any gun crimes and I I think they can handle situations but these are a certain segment that needs to live up to a high standard well not only that those are people that have been trained and they've developed this understanding of firearms it's so deep most people just don't get to that it's like the average person watches a UFC fight and thinks they can kick someone's ass and then if you fought against a trained martial artist you're fucked like you really

► 01:13:30

what you're doing that's kind of the same thing and when you compare someone who really like my friend Justin really understands Firearms versus the average person who goes and buys a gun and thanks a lot I'm safe now I got this gun hm maybe maybe maybe but statistics say that you're more likely to shoot a family member and in a fight or yeah suicide which you know the other thing that people that's a wonderful analogy I love that you did that because I mean it's a Perfect Analogy almost for MMA and

► 01:14:00

and who can handle a weapon as well but well it's all about undo confidence you know and perfect so like here's a here's the thing I've always want to tell people that feel that way we can I can tell you you can have a gun on you right now and we can set this up in the morning and I can tell you walk around your day is normal at some point in time today I'm going to take that gun away from you right I will get that gun it's going to happen because you're not going to be able to protect it and

► 01:14:30

no I'm coming

► 01:14:32

so then why are you actually think you're safe that you have that gun on you you're just as long as you're fighting against the inferior opponent or you're in this situation where you have distance and you have all these things like that just like an MMA fight it's not going to go as you fucking planned it I promise so what are you saying look as far as like you're going to take the gun away feel like they say you wanted to have a concealed weapon on you write and say you're standing in line at the bank you're going about your day as normal I could tell you at some point in time I'm going to get that gun from you and I'll

► 01:15:02

it is everything's about surprise so when the bank robber comes in well it's not surprised if you tell them we're gonna get it I'm sure I'm just giving you 24 hours while Bill fucking jacked up on Adderall 24 hours giving think about the life in Italy and you keep a gun safe you definitely would be well makes it an adventure right but that's the thing you're bigger than me you can be ready for it it's still I'm sorry you're just not going to get because it's just going to come out of nowhere so when people have these guns are you like really good at disarming people or something no more than anybody else would be there

► 01:15:32

you learn how to holster works somebody goes for my gonna punch them in their fucking fake a come-from-behind you were going to be standing in line at a where's my gun right here at me when you're here right here so we're going to come from behind the going to grab it sure you can do I have a whole but how hard is it to get a gun out of the holster this is certain holsters long as you know the holster works it's cake okay what does that one holster where If You Yank on it doesn't work but triple retention whole yeah I'm really going to see your gun if you have one of those because those are pretty darn big what if I'm wearing a puffy coat sure I guess you could say

► 01:16:02

ways to get around it I'm gonna reel it then but you're just not actually safer I know a dude who keeps several guns on them all the time and two knives it's got a knife in his boot he keeps several guns on him all time he's been hit in the head a bunch of times so it's just some people think you just you can't you can't think that that's what's going to make you safe it's your mindset it's your it's your awareness of your surroundings it's your ability to make a logical decision okay but you're talking about a very specific case where someone's trying to take

► 01:16:32

take your gun away right but that's the thing is you're in a you're in a bank I don't even need a gun because odds are there's going to be one there

► 01:16:40

and that's what we have so like a big thing of policing is you don't get into like Jiu-Jitsu kind of wrestling matches because of that gun mmm right because no matter what fight you're in there's always a gun there and it's the same thing with non cops right you don't want to get in a fight as a cop because if the evidence shows statistically that if they get that gun from you they're going to use it on you right that's pretty no different from you

► 01:17:11

if they get that gun from me right use it on you right right so why would you want to be in a fight with somebody well that's a wrestling match right so you're saying that I can introduce winds like the gun you're introducing that potential for you dying and there's a high possibility and you didn't have it before you literally are making yourself more at risk I mean this is a districts are clear on this that if you bring a gun to this fight the odds are against you even higher now because most people that bring

► 01:17:41

if even if you bring a knife to a fight a significant portion of those people get the knife take away from and get used on them I can't tell you how many cases we've been where you're trying to figure out a stabbing call and come to find out you know there they tried to do the stabbing hmm but they got that shit taken from them and they got stabbed themselves so once you introduce that that potential you're more dangerous or yourself but this is again you're talking about non trained individuals and they sort of go bring her back to you and I not the

► 01:18:11

sponsibility that we've might hard on those really train people I get that yeah you know that that's fine and that's like it's not a right at that point it's a privilege so it's like driving the car driving your cars on a right it's a privilege so if these people want to earn that privilege so be it but it becomes a problem doesn't it when I really fucking crazy person earns that privilege I mean if someone hasn't done anything yet criminal I mean there's been several people that have committed mass shootings but didn't do anything before they did that shooting

► 01:18:41

I mean yeah so you're still left with those you still decided as a society that on that side of the equation you're willing to accept that amount even though it's a lesser amount you've decided to set that amount and if we can just move to a point where we can accept a lesser amount that would be wonderful but we're continually accepting an ever-increasing Amounts is more people buying guns more people buying ammo

► 01:19:04

hmm so what is the solution then in your eyes well I would like to stop manufacturing I would like handguns and rifles to be banned and maybe that has to take a long time not rifles just just semi-automatic upper hand me and you can own them anymore no let's not shit yeah see so tricky shit then it becomes a privilege so like the handguns your Twitter accounts getting attacked right now that was awesome

► 01:19:33

fucking liberal pussy okay you're never taking my gun so you have to be those people that earn that privilege the idea that it's a right it's just I think the thing we could call a lot in that that it's just even if it was like we were saying earlier that I think the evidence is there that it's actually not you're right but if it is like can we rethink that and what is the Second Amendment read it exactly Jamie in its form please so we can again the idea that we keep the

► 01:20:03

tution in the Bill of Rights exactly intact some shit that was created hundreds of years ago before any of the variables that we have to deal with in society today whether it's variables about privacy electronic communications whether it's a variables about the power and the ability that guns have

► 01:20:22

it means we're dealing with the totally different world they made this ship back when people had muskets we really need to consider that and by the way they had just gotten done fighting off a totalitarian regime and had expanded and become their own country there we go second Madam of the United States Constitution reads a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed see that's pretty clear the right of the people

► 01:20:52

all known up and bear arms shall not be infringed yeah but a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed if they are a well regulated militia but it's not saying if it's saying capital letter A a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state so they're establishing that it is important that you have a well regulated militia being necessary well regulated

► 01:21:22

dated that's the weird term well-regulated militia what does that mean National Guard is that what they're saying no that's because messing the right of the people to keep and bear arms like they did not be other state though so the idea that your fight what is the people of the state mean they're just people no because you've got that's what the states are mean we the people that's the country right but this is a free a free state what that means is they worry that we might be invaded and taken over by England at the dawn of the government or the government any government

► 01:21:52

federal government right so that's a state being able to defend itself against the federal government because they've still were lingering with that that that from Britain no I don't know if that's what they meant when they said a free state is that what they could pull that up again so I can see that please it's I mean lucky it's kind of weird arguing about this because if we had to do this over again I mean this is obviously something that was established as we said a long time ago if we had to do this over again

► 01:22:22

if we had established new new amendments or new rights I don't know how we would write but that's a prepositional phrase a well-regulated militia that means everything after that is in regards to a well-recognized or so if I said and then Joe and everything in that sentence would be about Joe it's a prepositional phrase I mean that that's exactly what they mean well a real well-regulated militia meaning that there's a bunch of militia meaning regular people civilians Gathering Together

► 01:22:52

gathered to form some sort of a makeshift Army yeah being necessary to the security of a free state now when they say a free state this is back when what were their fucking three states or something like that when they 13 isn't should have been 13 then the first ones were 13 right the first initial stays the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed see some fucking nobody talks like that you fucks you know today in 2016 if you wrote a sentence like that be like hey bitch

► 01:23:22

what are you trying to say you know you know what I mean I mean people Thou shalt not four score and 16 years ago what speak normal bitch all right it's the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed is the one that everybody claims to people of the Free State those is that it that's definitely what they meant because they did that back then you know they formulated those those rights but they're saying shall not be infringed the right of the people

► 01:23:52

people remember that's the federal government shall not infringe that right against the state no it's not saying against the state it's saying the people to protect the security of the Free State the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed the people of this state right but what they're saying is that was very annoying for repositioning we got to do the car chase story after this that we all everybody oh that's right that's right a well regulated militia being necessary so there's establishing that a man again

► 01:24:22

then if you're angry right now you're um you'll fucking all right Mark Congressman you fucking pussies are trying to take my gun we're just trying to we're trying to unpack this amendment okay a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state so they're establishing that we need a well regulated militia to make sure that we don't get taken over by tyranny the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed I don't know man I mean I'm not a constitutionalist by any stretch of the imagination

► 01:24:52

ignore my scholar of the Bill of Rights that seems pretty clear the right shall not be infringed okay so I'll give you let's say we give you the right of the people is what they mean is that the people can hold the arms until they're needed to form this militia well that's weird so that ground is what it sounds like to me hold the arms yeah so the people right of the people to keep and bear arms right so they have the guns right and so they can have them it's just that so that they can formulate a

► 01:25:22

a well-regulated militia later if needed so does kind of re like that as well I don't know about that you don't think so no the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed so the people have the guns I'm saying and then the idea could be that they meant that you can have the guns in case you need to formulate the militia to fight tyranny it could be read that way in case yeah yeah well it's just not giving you any options that saying shall not be infringed scroll down what is it saying what is the Second Amendment actually

► 01:25:52

that is exact same I was looking for more is like what is the definition of modern definition of the the rights granted by the Second Amendment is there any like sort of legal bring nobody's agreed on this thing yeah it seems like these cocksuckers are wrote that chick they made it so weird but even if you can get them like they certainly weren't talking about AR-15s and they weren't envisioning a government with 5,000 nuclear weapons right then they were envisioning 300

► 01:26:21

Ian people the idea of Prozac the idea of fighting the government just really seems weird like so what you're saying there so I was in the Marine Corps what you're saying then is that if they make a law like Trump gets in the office and he says all right that's it we're going to crack down on our people you think that I'm going to come after you for that come on come on like the most some people with people on our military will not do that these generals aren't going to do that they're not going to command their members did you have a military coup

► 01:26:52

you probably would but you will have some people that are willing to comply but you are saying that your friends and brothers and sisters that are in the armed forces are going to turn their guns on their friends and family and the fuck out that's interesting because you could make the same argument about the police you're saying that your friends and brothers and sisters that are in the police are going to turn their guns on the civilians they do they do but that's a small amount of people that are affected so if you're talking about affecting the entire country then

► 01:27:21

those people will have that personal effect because it's not just they're turning on their own family right there not just including the same argument that than a small amount of non-compliant people would be the ones that the military would have to go against yeah I mean I guess if you have that kind of scenario sure it's kind of like if they're literally say they were to come take all the guns right and they were going to do it by force right you're also saying this huge Force for one the military is not allowed to operate on our soil but they already do they're really rolling the National Guard through cities and if you look

► 01:27:52

no no yeah well you have to well-regulated militia yeah but you look I mean when you look at the tanks and some of the the fucking military vehicles that they're using in some of these Riot drill militarization of police is a separate this is a separate argument well it is a separate argument but it becomes military then I mean you're talking about war machines short that's something that clearly wasn't envisioned and so I would rather you didn't open up that count

► 01:28:21

that's another chance fuck where's this going right yeah this is it's a very unusual sort of a debate because I see both sides I could absolutely see both sides just remember that equation though the both sides of that equation where they can be logical one side of that equation is death

► 01:28:45

well in the other argument would be that protecting yourself against death is a right but we know that if you want to have a safer Society if you want to live in Australia you have to get rid of the goddamn guns yeah but Australia is so different than don't I just don't buy those small I don't buy that well so this way by it this way how many mass shootings are there have been in California besides San Bernardino take San Bernardino out of the mix how many that's ahead let's add in black people in the

► 01:29:14

it that we don't hear about hmm okay mass shootings yeah Dahlia in this country down so you're going to get them every you know week or two weeks in California do they really get them every week or two weeks in California yeah you just don't hear about them because you're talk it because they happen in Compton don't give a shit right and you're talking about people who are criminals shooting other criminals and that's one of the arguments that gun control anti gun control people use against people that talk about how many people get shot it's how many people

► 01:29:44

like when you look at the numbers of people to get shot in this country they're also calculating the number of people that are shot by law enforcement officers they don't oh sure they do know they don't even get counted as hot they don't get reported to the FBI the guardian just figured out how many people got shot the 2015's the first year we figured out how many people got shot by police in this country okay but it is 2016 and we do calculate that know the newspaper does it the federal government or nobody does you look up statistics of how many people are killed by guns every year they do include

► 01:30:14

bad guys killed by cops no what no so let me is an argument that Ted Nugent and kind of homicides either well we're not talking about homicides were just talking about they kill him it doesn't count it doesn't count no it doesn't count against our homicide count because it's considered just well it's not fight homicides don't count but deaths they don't think they use the word homicide when they're counting firearm deaths interesting point let's follow that because this was what Ted Nugent and Piers Morgan I can't believe I'm using Ted Nugent ISM or Piers Morgan or peers well he's shit

► 01:30:45

what his argument with Ted Nugent he got shredded and then argument because he went into it on armed with facts and Nugent spews this out every point he can and by the way he would argue with you all day sure but that's that's argue with crazy person he's allegedly allegedly little crazy that's not going collection

► 01:31:05

there's certain people I'm willing to call out from time to time that would be one of them you think Ted Nugent's crazy what do you think's crazy about them have you seen him talk like yeah clearly crazy he's going to argue that until the end of day you could he's one of those people you can put the evidence in front of him day in and day out and we'll just move the goal post move the goal post and no one's interested in having an argument with somebody's just going to continually move goal post I don't know about all that I don't know if he would move the goalposts let's see the one thing that he makes coherent arguments about is in fact against gun control what

► 01:31:33

we got there Jamie I'm halfway looking through something but I got this from The Washington Post this article that starts with the year of 1,000 people nearly being shot by police at sound is annoying but it says right here they sought to compiled a record of every fatal police shooting in the nation as of 2015 something no government agency had done it started after Michael Brown shooting was when they started looking into it pretty newspaper did that God damn commies or whatever they are it's Washington Post

► 01:32:03

but other posts ought to compile or record this is a Washington Post the guardian started mmm but it says the post sought to compile record of every fatal police shooting in the nation 2015 something no government agency had done the project began after / police officer shot and killed Michael Brown in Ferguson Missouri in August of 2014 provoking several nights of fiery rise blah blah blah race Remains the most volatile Flashpoint in any accounting of police shooting although black men make up only six percent of the u.s. population

► 01:32:33

relation they account for 40% of the unarmed men shot to death by police this year the post database shows in the majority of cases which police shot and killed a person who had attacked someone with a weapon or brandished a gun the person who was shot was white

► 01:32:49

hmm interesting

► 01:32:52

that's interesting I had in the majority of cases in which police shot and killed a person who had attacked someone with a weapon or branched gun the person was shot was white but a huge disproportionate number three and five of those killed after exhibiting less threatening behavior were Black Or Hispanic so meaning they valued the life less of people who were Black Or Hispanic they were quicker to shoot down with less threatening behavior than they would with why people regardless of regardless of race and more than a quarter of the cases the Fatal encounter

► 01:33:22

officers pursuing someone on foot or by car making chases one of the most common scenarios in the data hmm that's interesting it's interesting that shoot more white people but I guess they're all have to shoot more white people it's because there's a see why people actually some percent of population it's probably more than that right and how many more people are there it's getting down it's going down slowly brown people are fucking their way up here top well we joke about that how what does that movie where everything goes crazy

► 01:33:52

Z come on which one Michael Douglas know like The Purge know the silho idiocracy yeah okay so like the silly one we know we know that the more educated someone is the less kids they have right as soon as you do that you go oh no fuck all the smart people don't have kids right and everybody that's poor has more kids mmm so like that's what another reason why we have to educate

► 01:34:22

yeah well that's the counter to overpopulation that when they look at the charts and graphs that when you in industrialized nations when they become more closer to the first world they have less children China yeah but it's also they're also fucking working more yeah grinding it's not necessarily good my be better off being poor with a bunch of kids be happy all right so we know that the most likely time to get to shooting is in a Chase yeah so we owe a

► 01:34:52

each a story and we should lighten it up a little bit okay let's so this is a story this is a story that we just got sidetracked from the first conversation we're in the middle of talking about it we never got to it right so all right we were talking Jamie and I are earlier about it probably pretty cool with probably pull this up on street maps so let's go to the 1800 block of West Pratt we can actually look at it okay we interesting

► 01:35:20

anybody who's got their finger on the send button right now ready to send an evil email or Twitter just relax this is a debate folks is a conversation I know you wish you were here she could yell at Mike or me how about you said it pretty you made a couple points that I didn't think about that were pretty darn liberal I'm pretty liberal I'm a fucking confusing motherfucker if you're trying to pigeonhole me okay Mom I'm a liberal hippie who owns guns and hunts

► 01:35:49

and loves weed and gay people I love I love everybody all right I really do can we go to

► 01:35:59

okay so this is the right so go down to that red awning and turn around first of all how dope is Google Maps its wall crazy where we're traveling through Baltimore right now on Jamie's computer this is madness

► 01:36:12

when we see in people's license plates and shit that's so weird that they can do that they just zoom in didcot people coming out of whorehouses and right yeah they have people have sued because the Google car yeah the Google car drove by right when they're just lighting up a cigarette all right face laughs Jamie okay so this is a really dilapidated neighborhood in Baltimore we don't need to necessarily see it but we're dealing with DEA space H Ood

► 01:36:42

okay I'm sorry go left

► 01:36:47

I go down the street a little bit more by the way since we're talking about Baltimore shout out to my brother John Rallo of Baltimore all right so this is one of my Ground Control MMA go there learn how to fight all right so I'm going to tell the story if I could get my logo by bearings right because it doesn't seem like I'm gonna be able to pull it off it's okay all right so anyway I just hope story so one of my favorite times ever best night ever had as a cop

► 01:37:18

we were working the major case Squad and we had been assigned a new vro which is a violent repeat offender Target to go after you're going to hear a lot of these in a lot of Chiefs are starting to push this out again which is the violent repeat offender where they have people with so they do like this predictiveness that these are the people that were likely to get shot or likely to do shootings or something like that so we want to focus all of our enforcement efforts on them to get them on anything

► 01:37:47

NG doesn't work but regardless that's what I was doing at the time and we had a guy set up to the there's a bar and at the bar we knew that this gang would go in and out of this bar so we had a guy sitting covert in a van and watch the bar because we are whole intent was to take pictures you know take pictures document who is going in and try and see some associations and me and another car we were hiding away just

► 01:38:17

waiting to see what evil report maybe we could follow somebody things like that and we're talking and it's been hours we wrong like our 10 sitting there nothing going on and we had a secure channel so we could just talk back and forth on our radio and they're talking about sports or so I had to be soccer baseball because it was sometime give a shit about so everybody's bitching going back on radio just talk and trying to pass the time and then the guy watching and covert he goes finally here I'm coming crazy guys would you shut the fuck

► 01:38:47

fuck up shut up there robbing the store next to me right now I'm watching them I can see that it's a silver 38 introduced hand Robin the story shut the fuck up and get over here so we're like alright alright alright so he's calling it out and these guys running they get into a getaway car and go around the block and we get behind him so we're following them and it's you know this is a fresh robbery so they got handguns in the car and everything do they know you're following know so we have unmarked cars and we're following behind

► 01:39:17

damn it and we're in this area where you have the one District to the left to West the Southwest you have the Western District of North and the southern two left so they call the try District but we're kind of in this area where our Communications are going to be weird because these are all different channels so I'm riding with the sergeant and I was a detective at the time and say to him I'm going to get on Southern Channel you get on the Southwest and coordinate that way we can call this out so I get on the radio and I'm calling and like I need

► 01:39:47

a 1031 on the southern Channel and everybody keeps talking like we're trying to follow I need a 1031 on the southern Channel and I look at him like what the fuck well they shut up like I don't understand it's just a 1033 fucking asshole like oh okay so if you don't radios 1031 is to this day so tethers reason emergency so I get on there and we're calling it out the car is going west down Lombard and we're we're following it and we're coming up to the shopping center

► 01:40:18

turns left on shopping center Cars full of people it gets to the goes through the shopping center and it stops at a stop sign but there's a car in front of it and we're thinking all right we're gonna have to light it up here but that car like it always moves right soon as we hit the lights you can of course you can bet that cars gonna move right so we hit the lights anyway and the car stops in the front where the outside is it so they can't get past right so they all bailout

► 01:40:47

one run so there's four people in the car one goes one way one goes back the other way one goes for it one goes behind and I jumped out of the car because let's all right so I leave my radio by accident I drop it because let's be honest I see a guy running with a gun out of a car and I'm still like in Jackrabbit mode yeah I'm going on well that's when people shoot people right I've got it right I'm getting him so I take

► 01:41:16

off without the gut without my radio chasing this dude going behind the shopping center the sergeant he forgot to put the car in park so he knows I don't have my radio he's starting to panic about where I'm going he has to dive back into the car to put it on Park so it doesn't hit the suspect's car and then the non suspect car in front of them the everybody goes running I'm chasing behind him and I've got my gun out and I'm running and I'm saying you know hey I'm going to fucking shoot you know you better

► 01:41:46

stop now but I could tell he when he's running pure panic like I had a moment of empathy for him like you could he was just like fuck fuck fuck fuck running with that gun in his hand like how you better drop it we're running some guy comes out of the woods for behind the shopping center it's a fucking cop from the southwest who heard us on the radio plainclothes cop so the guy who throws the gun and he tries to throw it up onto the roof of the building but

► 01:42:16

like pathetically just hits the building and fought staff and the guy comes out of the woods I yell at him to get him well I running back go back and get the gun you gotta get the gun first if you're smart because that could end up with somebody else's hands or whatever and we'll get him back and so at that moment unbeknownst to me all those districts were like all coordinators like this moment of serendipity and policing southern district Patrol came up and got one of the guys and like Western

► 01:42:46

troll got one of the guys in Southwest Commander was in the area was there and they drug unit was there helping me and we caught every single person bring them back we got like four guns we get everything we roll them over the fucking people we were looking for by mere coincidence half the gang that we were looking for to go into the bar Rob the store that was next to our guy in covert and we started our case there which ended up being completely successful

► 01:43:16

as for because we had this huge jumpstart of just dumb ass luck that does sound like dumbass luck because you called 1031 say the 1033 forgot to put the car in park you left your radio behind that and that's typical you know so that's the way it is and that's a situation where you do shoot like people shoot in that situation right but think people think I haven't been there

► 01:43:39

who are you know the think you have a bad you know they are all over the Internet the Twitter trolls and stuff or people I want to get Christ with other cops you know they think oh you're just talking about Baltimore you've never actually done anything what did you actually do and those are the situations where you get into these shootings right well you could have right easily shot that guy who was running with the gun and that's what the statistics show happens a lot of the time that would have dramatically affected me dramatically affected him and everyone around but what this

► 01:44:09

was doing in the end was being part of a drug deal trying to do robberies trying to fucking eat and survive and yet we had those guns so you have this poverty and you have this fighting for resources and so they chose that to rob the store and to being in these gangs but if they didn't have those guns

► 01:44:34

how differently with out of it probably quite a bit yeah so when you talk about saturation I mean like look in that incident we got lucky everything went fine it had potential to fall apart luckily we were all competent and that unit but sort of thanks I was the youngest one I was I was the rookie coming some slack but you had you know 30 guns we're going around in that situation you don't like England doesn't do this don't see

► 01:45:04

other countries like this where this all could have just went Bonkers because we're trying to respond to a situation in a way go after people and put them in cells because we have this these guns everywhere and they're fighting for these resources but that's where we have to stop and say why are they here right what got us to this point instead what we continue to do is we just throw that group into jail and the very next time it took us like six months to take the whole group down we got everybody federally indicted

► 01:45:34

but as soon as we do that the next group just steps up because we didn't take a moment to look at the causation well you know the old argument if you outlaw guns only Outlaws will have guns

► 01:45:44

right well I mean it's circular logic to it is but when you're dealing with a supply that already exists in the hundreds of millions it's pretty logical actually eat yeah I mean it's going to happen but have to go door-to-door and dig into people's basements but if you make guns all legal then then the only people that have guns are law-abiding people what do you mean no right make the game completely legal well if you completely as if that's what you mean yeah so that's why it's a circular logic

► 01:46:14

because those the criminals are still criminals even if the guns are legal it's not everyone's on a law-abiding citizen that has a gun if you give a gun to a criminal right but if you don't have the law in place to make it criminal and that's the thing we're saying well only bad guys will have guns if we outlaw them all right well yeah because we outlawed them all I mean that's just its circular logic so if we have the law first because you're not changing the gun ownership you're just changing the law right but you're already

► 01:46:44

we've already made it illegal for people that are felons to possess Firearms yeah but when you have that level of saturation obviously it doesn't work right right but it gets back to the same issue like how would you ever pause it's like trying to get you know it's like taking a bucket of water and throwing it into the ocean and trying to get that fresh water out like how do you get out the guns that are in the stop adding salt so that's why I said we can't instantly solve it we just have to stop doing

► 01:47:14

it the wrong way that's like the drug war I mean you you've been into the drug war so you know without a doubt it doesn't work but what are we still doing and like it's not we're slowly moving away from that sure we can stop right now I mean look at you can literally just stop we just as quickly as we started it we can say okay we're not going to imprison people for those offenses if they get in the crime and they shoot somebody well then go after them for the shooting but what we do is we put that law in there

► 01:47:44

and we make it you know with like we're creating this we know what's wrong and we know to just stop this so with the guns you know if you just stopped manufacturing them will get somewhere if you just stop locking people up for the drug war we're get somewhere and improving that but we're not we're just keep doing the same thing it's been a year since I was here and we discuss these drug war issues we haven't really moved the bar much well the only thing that it is up for ballot in

► 01:48:14

foreign states marijuana of course not not other drugs and slowly but surely it will become legal throughout the United States most likely now Washington DC is legal there's a lot of places that are legal now that weren't legal before and then it's on the ballot in November in California and several other states I believe the other states as well but Cal marijuana just one really benign law I mean it's really it's a rather benign substance in many ways it's not it's not a

► 01:48:44

dangerous thing it's not a real threat or harm to society guns are way more dangerous sure moving that changing that but we're creating that you know so we create the guns are being used because of the drug war right and then we have people that are dying over heroin overdoses because of the drug war notice we've had a lot of improvements in people dying over here windows are just as now that it's in Massachusetts and stuff what do you mean in Massachusetts we are like the cops aren't

► 01:49:14

testing there's a chief there that decided he was going to be smart and he wasn't going to lock up the heroin users he was going to get them into treatment has had excellent success well the heroin problem that was one of those CNN shows was detailing what actually went down so it was Anthony Bourdain show they were talking about how what really happened was so many people got addicted to Oxycontin is because of prescription drug companies pushing that shit where people

► 01:49:44

well you know people are like little small minor injuries and their prescribing pills that are opiates and highly addictive they're no different than heroin yeah I mean like literally their heroin yeah and so that's money in politics issue again yeah we're not fighting the those drug dealers who are getting everybody hooked on Heroin were fighting the drug dealers that are in the city still yeah that's a gigantic issue of course and then these people when they started to crack down

► 01:50:14

oxycontin's that is when heroin moved in to take its place because these people are sick they needed their pills right they didn't get their pill so then they got heroin instead right yeah I know but I mean so yeah Lana move on to some reform measures or what's been going on the last year yeah definitely yeah all right let's talk about what happened as the years gone on after I left here obviously people picked up and had that you know the Joe Rogan effect that they

► 01:50:44

they everybody always talks about after they talk to you other people start to pay attention and I went back to Baltimore and is dude sends me an email

► 01:50:57

as it is they arrange it through leap that he's going to come visit me and he wants to talk about a movie oh Jesus and so he called and said they corrupt yeah thank God we would get you and we talked about some of these ideas very good movie idea that he has trying to kind of put some of these things into an emotional appeal that people can understand and comes close to them but what that did was is it pushed me to get more involved in Baltimore so I

► 01:51:26

could get the other people involved in the project that would have good ideas and would really know the streets well and would know the activism path and what was going on with black lives matter and everything in there and so I reached out to a bunch of the activists and we started forming these tight-knit groups and come to find out this dude doing the movie is Matthew kosovich and I don't know if he's going to do it yet or not but he's like the big star in France and thinking about doing a sequel to a movie me he made called lehane which

► 01:51:56

really talks about these kind of things in France France had very similar hyper segregation problems and ghettoization 20 years ago and ended up having riots and they did a lot to fix it and that's what he's kind of went doing like a 20-year Union of that but getting involved in Baltimore and meeting everybody I really have been like in a school of understanding of what the city's need and what people

► 01:52:26

Pilar trying to fight for and what the black lives matter movement really means I just didn't I had all the a lot of those same preconceived notions of like you know being a white hero kind of thing where you go and you help and like you're bringing your skills down and you don't realize the things you're saying and how you play into to privilege and things like that and getting it going in there with them my walls against

► 01:52:56

Muslims got got torn down because I ended up meeting Muslim activists who were really treat using religion to do the right things you know the good things The Selective of course but getting involved in the movement to the point where we're having these these groups and we're doing things like having panel discussions and we did like stop-and-frisk for people so that they would see what it was like to actually have somebody come up on you and sir

► 01:53:26

ouch the your pockets and we've been doing documentaries we've been doing protesting where there's a met this lady Tawanda Jones who her brother was killed by Baltimore police officers couple years ago and she's been protesting every single Wednesday for two and a half years fighting for her brother Tyrone West and I guess why they doing Wednesday and he he was beaten to death by Baltimore cops like literally beaten to death and we wanted to have things like where we say

► 01:53:56

why don't we have people protesting good why is it always got to be like burning down to CVS or something like that where is all the good people and like I was just flabbergasted that they were everywhere in what everyone thinks is the worst of neighborhoods was just filled with people trying to do the right thing and trying to to fight for justice and doing it in the most peaceful manner her brother was beaten to death by cops and what she does is peacefully protest every Wednesday for two and a half years and doesn't get any attention for that when

► 01:54:26

they have other cops that were those same cops beat this guy Abdul Salam in front of his kid doing the exact same kind of aggressive enforcement and it what it opens up and kind of went away going about it is I got to see the other side and that really has affected me that being a cop you lock them up and you put them into the cell or you taking the court and the case goes whatever you don't think about what that does

► 01:54:57

on the other end you never see and then I got involved in the communities and I saw the other side I saw what it was like for a guy that came back from being imprisoned in solitary confinement for three years and having no hopes of resources like not getting them jobs and having to fight just to get anything because he had that that record you get to see that those people you locked up like they have families who were profoundly affected by everything that happened and they're gone for these

► 01:55:26

years and it's just it's been a really like

► 01:55:32

I get a aggressive and when we're talking about these conversations about guns and like because those deaths on that other side of that equation that should became real as can be to me like those are people now that I know and I know the families of the people who were on the other side of that and it's really pushing that that's what we we need to just really do we gotta stop being these tribal creatures that can only see the those fellow humans that are right with us that we associate is being our team like we're all that

► 01:56:02

and we have we have to start having empathy for what these things do to other people we have to see this cops don't see what their actions do in order to step up and say hey we shouldn't be doing this we have to get out of this denial bubble and being involved in the city has just given me this huge check on all my privileges and everything that we have we don't understand how much advantages we have in life it's ridiculous the amount of fat

► 01:56:32

actors that people have to fight against that we can't even register and this is all fairly new to you yeah man I mean like I saw it evidentially but to see it in person like the work that so the photographer Devin Allen pull up the vanilla

► 01:56:52

he took a picture of my daughter that's from a protest it's going to be in and he's doing this project now where he took the Time Magazine cover shoot so if you ever saw the Time Magazine during the uprising where it says 1968 and is crossed out and says 2016 because it looks he took that picture as a as a young black kid that used to be a drug dealer who picked up a camera as his identity project kind of thing he didn't know what an identity project was at that time I

► 01:57:20

know what identity project was at that time but he picked up the camera start taking pictures and he got that picture and he's well known now but what he did was he took that and now he used the publicity from all that and he gets

► 01:57:36

so this is the Van Allen he gets all these start this project at this community development called Penn North and he collects cameras now for all these kids not that he's getting paid he collects cameras from around the world brings it in and now he runs a thing going through and sandtown-winchester were Freddie gray was killed he takes the takes those kids in and teaches them photography and gives them that project so they have something they can

► 01:58:06

rip upon on and they have some they can build up on but what would sad about that is that this is Devin who has no resources who is the kid who was a drug dealer who has everything bothering him and he is investing in those communities and trying to provide those things to give people that that identity where they can climb out of it and they can become they can see that vision of being a contributing member to society and like that's what we all have to do to give back these neighborhoods that's

► 01:58:36

as part of the way of fixing it is if when people want to help you literally have to go down there and say how can I help and do things like that because what he's revealing is that we all have a skill his skills photography but your skill is is hunting or comedy or talking or however you want to go you have these skills that you can teach and you can pass on so other people can see and identity some people can so some people can do whatever it is we all have these skills and that's like how we

► 01:59:06

help if you want to be somebody that helps you cities you go down there and you help Supply that identity I could just see how many white Knights are saying I'm going down to the hood right now and I'm gonna help guys well I'm the fucked up no pants but like teeth so at the head north we created this thing that well they created this thing called the safe Zone and what that is is all worked out with everybody you got to treat everybody like humans they worked out with a with the drug dealers there

► 01:59:36

Ethan is going on and they participate in keeping this area of the city completely safe so that everybody can come down there and you would if you go to Baltimore you want to be a white knight you come down the bottom and reach out to an activist and you want to help it's not dangerous you will be fine and there are plenty of people that will help you and guide you through and what you can do to contribute to make our society a more whole place well obviously Baltimore xenocide of the country there's got to be places around here that need some sort of a similar

► 02:00:06

says matter where you are yeah they're all the same all these cities are saying they're facing all the same problems and that has helped me build this reform measure so my application for Chicago is completely up if you want to pull up my website it's Michael a wood jr. let me ask you this had you gotten the position in Chicago you were trying to be the police chief of police in Chicago right if you had gotten that position in Chicago what would you do what is your idea I mean I'm sure

► 02:00:36

you have a grand plan so it's 38 pages of that on this but if you could kind of breakdown Source well the first thing we have to do is we have to give that power away and I think that's a condition that I have to have in order to take the job now I have a friend who is a actually a driver warrant Chicago who's a cop and he told me that what's going on in Chicago was that they had some pretty high level drug dealers and gang

► 02:01:06

leaders and then they caught those guys and imprisoned mm and when they imprisoned them and created a power vacuum and in that power vacuum over the last few years you're seeing significant ramp up in crime or people try to take over these areas that were under control by other people similar to what happens when you see when we take over countries like Libya creates this power vacuum and now you have a case to almost you say Well it's worse without Gaddafi than it was with him

► 02:01:35

that's sort of what this guy was telling me about Chicago is that accurate possible one of the big problems is with policing is we think we can narrow things down and we can like find a soul causation right and there just simply isn't any Soul causations there's never sold causation in anything you're dealing with a mass amount of human beings everybody has different reasons you're not going to be able to do everything perfectly and those things can happen perfectly plausible that it could have happened a weird Theory

► 02:02:04

that I've started to recognize is that actually in this study they the Stephanie DeLuca study they talk a lot about how these kids are really more passionate now and they're get exposed to more and you can see that their work ethic is actually higher than it was we think that they're not working but they're achieving things at three to four hundred percent of what their parents achieve so these kids are ambitious

► 02:02:35

and so if you don't have any other options around you have a more ambitious population that's now doing drug dealing and taking over territory what do you mean by they're achieving things three to four hundred percent more than their right so you have so the average and I want to go like the 90s for for high school diplomas and college for residents of a neighborhood like Sandtown or these East and West Baltimore neighborhoods worst that you can imagine in your head

► 02:03:05

as far as resources go they these kids are actually achieving so say their parents got 10% High School diplomas these guys are getting 40% High School diplomas their parents were getting you know two percent college degrees these guys are at like 25 30 % college degrees so they're really excelling but they're not achieving because of all these other barriers as you know so a guy a black

► 02:03:34

that guy with a college degree is slightly less likely to be employed than a white guy with a high school diploma in a criminal record so even that they're getting these promises that they play by the rules then their get these things at the end just like poor white American West Virginia is and what happens though is there were being they see these examples of with social media or whatever and they're understanding that if they push hard that's the they're told they're push our

► 02:04:04

give these things then they'll get these rewards but they're not getting these rewards they're just not there so if you have a more ambitious population and they're turning to drug dealing and to Crime well it's just as likely that they're also more ambitious and dedicated to their criminal Endeavors as they were to their college achievement right so they're better criminals because they're working hard on skis generation improves right yeah is there a but there is there any Improvement in in terms of crime rates well I mean there

► 02:04:34

are our crime is still dramatically dropping and we are we live in the safest era in human history right now we get caught up in a lot of this and that that made sure that's a guy who can sense a weird argument for The Gun Guys where they can just say hey we are in the safest environment time in history ever so we have to not get caught up in the fact that if like you said the odds of things happening to you or super low especially compared to the rest of History because of the sheer numbers you're dealing with well it would seem like

► 02:05:04

rhyme the percentage of people taking crime is probably still or about the same and then or the amount of the same but the population has grown right so you have a lot lot less crime percentage-wise right and you ever have before but if you're criminals are that much better well they're still going to be ambitious but are they that much better it seems like it's so much easier to catch them doing something now than ever before other than physically catch them but me so much easier to know that's really contrary evidence

► 02:05:34

it's so yeah I mean homicide clearance rates from the 80s were in 80 90 percent now they're down to 30 to 45 percent what is that from I think that's from a breakdown of community relations because we think that cops cops aren't the answer the community is always the answer and so if you want to solve a crime you have to have these good relationships with your communities in order for them to even trust you otherwise our streets are just going to handle it themselves right if the police don't provide Justice well then

► 02:06:04

will right so if he can't turn to the police that's another Factor you get there's tons of factors in here and a lot of arguments can be made for what it is but the conviction rate has dropped dramatically and and the homicide clearance rate has dropped dramatically police are not solving crimes at the rate they used to now when you look at an area like Chicago that has a lot of violence connected to the drug war or to the drug trade I should say illegal drug selling it's also a resource

► 02:06:34

sources to those so the drug trade fills in for a lack of extra very good point and that's a point that doesn't get a dress that often right that's a that's a very good point now what can be done what would you have done had you got that position well so the first thing I have to do here's my model and my fundamental model is is think if you had a business and you have a board you know yeah you have your Board of Trustees whatever you want to call it I want to be a civilian

► 02:07:04

her of the police department like a CEO and I want to have like officially 49 percent of the power of the agency and then we have like seven people on this panel who come from the city who live in these neighborhoods I don't not sure precisely how we pick them out can't appoint them because then they just become cronies we have some issues with voting that that we may have to work out the details on but the the ultimate principles that we would have the majority of that board would be from the poorest of the neighborhoods around so you would create a board and

► 02:07:34

and what would what would be the picking criteria to create this board would it be you and other police officers we know this has to be the civilians so it has to be billions picked the people that are on yeah I think we would have to pick them myself think I think we have to have a vote this is I don't have that thought completely out right okay but the majority has to come from the poor populations covering the base of whatever is good for the weakest Among Us is good for the strongest among us and then those boards while I run the agency I can only

► 02:08:04

are you to them they have 51% of the control I have all these things I want to argue for right but it's fundamentally not my agency okay so the you would almost give most of the control to the rest of the people and they would work with you right so there I'm the CEO there the board they're going to come up with that we're all going to discuss how we want to approach issues and I'm going to bring my science I'm going to make my cases as much as I can on the right way to

► 02:08:34

do things but if they want to do things another way it's their agency and that's the that's what I would have never been done anywhere not that I'm aware of so your idea is so radical and so way out there and that's part of the problem with getting people to accept it right they would have to take a huge chance and if it failed it would be their failure whereas if it fails right now here's the trick as usual tricked-out okay it's a total cop-out in a manner because the failure isn't my fault

► 02:09:05

why but I'm saying now you would be the board's fault because they have the agency soldiers if the people are responsible they can't bitch at the mayor right because they did it it's their agency it's my job to serve them it's not my job to serve a mayor right it's my job to serve them and carry out what they want to achieve so our work at achieving what they want to achieve in establishing the milestones and incentives that they think are better for their neighborhood because they may do things which would dramatically

► 02:09:35

have impacts like such as hiring like so right now guys won't hire because they have a drug complaint or something like that or they have a prior arrest record well I think if you get all those poor neighborhoods together they're going to say look we know that's that's bull crap like that arrest doesn't stop you from being a good cop that's ridiculous and we can let those people in and they can to take that risk as a whole Community we can decide these things so you're saying make former prisoners or former

► 02:10:04

owls turn them into police officer not that far but sure I mean some of them so the difference between them and me we know is the color of my skin in the neighborhood I grew up in I could have easily had the criminal record that they have I think pretty much anybody could yeah right I mean that's that's a hard pill to swallow for folks who have that pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentality but a lot of who you are and what you are is luck yeah yeah everything important in this country radical extreme Advantage yeah being born poor in this country

► 02:10:34

is really way luckier than being born in the middle class and a lot of other countries right so this board that we have how long do you think it's going to take before they end the drug war that's going to take a day yeah but they can't do that because it's a federal decision was actually talking about the city or Chicago with sun even the state of Illinois worst weekend we can stop you well the federal government we don't enforce laws we don't enforce your law period boy good luck trying to pull that legal the fans have to come in and do it themselves

► 02:11:04

selves the feds would have to come in and enforce the law he can come in and do it right but they're doing in Colorado for a while yeah they tried that didn't work out right well Colorado is a perfect example where the money was so good with the plan that was initiated where they're making more money from taxes with marijuana than they ever did with alcohol which is bananas beyond the money you have a reduction in crime and in juvenile usage of marijuana and in drunk driving yes

► 02:11:34

Louis instances of drunk driving and more than a decade it's pretty interesting it's pretty interesting because it just shows you it was predictable yes well for people like URI but not for the people that were arguing against it they thought it was going to be chaos and hippies they going to light the town on fire and fuck each other in the streets and everybody thought I was going to be horrible but you're talking about a different drug when you talking about Chicago you're talking about heroin you're talking about cocaine talking about methamphetamine talking about MDMA these are different

► 02:12:04

rugs and they have health consequences as well so the legalization or the prohibition what the plate what they have right now is obviously not working the real problem would be if they decided to not enforce the drug laws and they decided to in some way you know air quotes legalize these drugs what would take places you're going to have some blame be placed on some deaths

► 02:12:35

on your new laws and that's going to be paraded out in front of you this is you're responsible for the death of this young girl she never tried heroin but because it was available at 7-Eleven she started snorting it and now she's dead somebody going to be that you get that that's not the the model the model so you have prohibition and we were saying earlier you know what prohibition does is just a terming that they sell it okay takes the hands and puts it into the black market yes so

► 02:13:04

so while yet heroin is a terrible drug but what makes heroin so bad is its lack of Purity and the environment in which you you get it well also the addictive properties of it which is why were Oxycontin even though it's pure and very measurable still has a terrifying effect right but what kind of consequence did you say that was it was a health consequence well it has a kind of criminal consequences unless we make it one well Oxycontin certainly do there's a lot of people that are get arrested for illegally

► 02:13:34

possessing selling and distributing it's a huge issue right I understand I mean the drugs period of right there are health issue yes they're not a criminal issue they're not a prison issue there are public health issue so we treat that with health professionals not with jail cells in and police so while May it's not like I'm saying that the drug dealers can go out there and just deal it that's not what I want I want a doctor handling everything I want it moved into just no

► 02:14:04

different than alcohol well the problem with the doctor handling is that's what happened in Florida and what happened in Florida they developed this environment where they didn't have a database or they the doctors and the pharmaceutical companies were all in cahoots and they said look let's just sell the shit out of this and the statistics were staggering there was more prescriptions for Oxycontin 's and opiate painkillers in Florida than the rest of the United States combined oh that

► 02:14:34

is not so what were they doing with it they were selling it they were taking and they're selling it illegal around the Oxycontin Express a documentary that showed that these people were bringing it from Florida Upstate to Georgia and Kentucky but they don't have that market they wouldn't have that market in Chicago with me

► 02:14:55

right so Florida couldn't do that because you wouldn't have a market to sell it in so the only reason that that yeah because the only reason take away the market the only reason that exists is because they can go sell it on the black market

► 02:15:09

so if you take away the black market as being the distributor then so you would allow people to just sell it no no only doctors only doctors right for those certain drugs for so cannabis or something like that we need to put in a model similar and we have things in like Portugal or what Portugal does they just decriminalize it so they don't put people in prison cells for possessing it and if you want to still go after the dealers as a half-measure you know like that's a half-measure I'd have to swallow that I don't completely believe in

► 02:15:39

but we can work those things out me and you if you're the panel and I'm the CEO we can work these things out and come to a position where we're like okay let's try this and if you if you want to go by the incremental ISM then we see that that's okay just like in Colorado already has proven that the Cannabis model is fine right so we can start with the Cannabis model and move that in and then we can say alright well let's put cocaine into this model

► 02:16:07

and then see how that goes if you want to be incremental about it I'm fine with that the Cannabis model the problem is the innocuousness had negative effects or just it's just really there's almost nothing there's so little to fall on but we don't make that case with alcohol or right back oh that's true but tobacco is not a good one because it's a long slow death as long as it's yeah as long as it takes a long time yeah we can accept me and that's how we look at it it's almost like what we're doing

► 02:16:37

how much that cost I mean the cost of tobacco is extraordinary on our Health Care system oh no doubt about it right and when you think about alcohol that's the real argument because alcohol is one of the easiest drugs to kill yourself with people I think there's a staggering number I think it's like 10,000 people drink themselves to death every year just in this country which is really pretty shocking and that doesn't count drunk driving alcohol-related violence and all the other things that go along with it the problem with me

► 02:17:07

making heroin or cocaine with decriminalizing it but then go after going after the Dealer's is then we'll okay if these people get hooked on it where are they going to get it then well they have to go to a doctor I mean it's just the way we have to do it so it is not treatment but it then becomes exactly like floral but remember what we do know we do know that every million spent on the demand side reduces by a hundred kilograms right so we have to keep focusing on education

► 02:17:37

Jim I don't if those people that got hooked on oxy became heroin addicts if they had the education that this was the path they were going to go on you gotta believe that a significant percentage of them wouldn't have gone that path yeah I mean now we're all aware of it and I know plenty of people now that the doctor says here's some oxy and they're like no no no give me something else what do you do with people that are so fucking dumb they just want to party you got some of those things got a little party just like you gotta let him drink themselves to death and we gonna do that's

► 02:18:07

hard pill for people to swallow but it's better and put them in a prison cell yes it is what do you got going on Jeremy

► 02:18:14

drinking too much can excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths and 2.5 million years of potential life lost what does that mean I got okay like you're saying drunk driving in the United State 2.5 million years or potato people's lives we've got line that's a weird fucking statistic from 2006 to 2010 shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years yeah okay so

► 02:18:44

it definitely okay that's life lost the meaning you drink yourself into an early grave that's a weird thing to argue but the 88,000 deaths over a period of four years that's that's harsh but that's what we were saying I mean that it's essentially a little bit more than what I was saying we also know the solution to the or a solution to a significant portion of that education education and legalization of marijuana yeah so does things we empirically know we know those will improve the situation

► 02:19:14

patience but instead we continue to do things we know don't work right right so I'm a scientist I am interested in what works I'm going to argue for what works and someone else can argue against it but that's going to be what I continue to argue for I don't have an emotional position or on it I I'm following the evidence right we literally know these things not only that there's also a drug that is illegal that has a

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giant impact on addiction it's called ibogaine and ibogaine which is being used for in treatment facilities all throughout South America and Mexico with massive positive results is illegal in this country for no apparent reason and I've heard that the people that do that or just like that's it soon as they take it out like I don't want it anymore it's yeah well it rewires the way your brain concentrates or the way your brain is affected by these substances it rewires addiction I mean I'm not

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the one to explain how it works Aubrey will be in this week and he'll probably the best person to do it got another one this is from The Washington Post this statistic of how many Americans drink every week he's going to read that what a little fucking right here up to ten drinks per day what up to this is the top ten percent of American adults 24 million of them consume an average of 74 drinks per week or a little more than ten drinks per day holy shit compared to about 30% the don't drink

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at all holy shit how many of them are doing that because cannabis is illegal well I'm sure quite a few but quite a few you know look there's a lot of obviously you know I'm a marijuana Enthusiast I love it I think it's awesome I want to spark one up right now thinking about it I'm a big fan but some people don't like it they don't like the abrasively introspective properties of cannabis they don't like the paranoia they don't like

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all the vulnerability feelings that you get from it I like those those are good for me my personality I have I'm to Taipei aggressive you know I'm good with a substance a compound that sort of like comms that down and Mellows me out it gives me a different perspective I enjoy and I think it's good for people I really do I think a lot of the things that people associate with the negative aspect of cannabis the particularly the

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Moya I think that's good I really do I do I think we need to feel more vulnerable I think more feeling more vulnerable is better for you because it enhances a sense of community and friendship and love and a lot of ways and it bonds people together I think this idea that you're an individual that you are you know you're a lone Rebel out there kicking ass and taking names you're doing it all by yourself that's all eroded instantaneously by cannabis it just said no no you're a talking monkey on a

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ball flying through Infinity fuckhead you like I'm fucking scared I'm gonna die someday and I couldn't agree with you more I think those are really important qualities for our entire race the human race I think they it enhances more Community type feelings and thoughts and I think that's the opposite of what some drugs like stimulants do stimulants I've always avoided stimulants I'm not a fan of other than coffee I've never really

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I tried them but I've seen their effect on other people and I've read about their effects and it's not what I'm looking for I don't want to be cocky I don't yeah I'm trying to fight whatever urges my body and my personality have to sort of lean towards that but I think that people that get involved with speed people to get involved with Coke those are people that are like unduly confident it's I think there's a bad drug for society and it's a it's a drug that is very selfish in its effects like the

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the the impact it has on people's they become really selfish and nasty and I'm not into that I think that alcohol for some people is a is an escape from the reality that they find themselves in and they don't know how to get out and I think education like we were talking about before allowing people to have access to the stories and the the to see the consequences that other people have experienced from taking that drug will help them what kept me from doing coke

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coke when I was young was having friends that had problems with it and that educated me I was like fuck I don't want to be like that guy I don't want to have that happen to me I see what's happening to this person some people don't get exposed to that and instead before they know it they're already in it they're trying it when they're 15 next thing you know they like it too much next thing you know they're looking forward to doing that because it provides some sort of an escape from the pressure of the consequences of pursuing a dream of chasing down life or of not having a

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correction that's another one not having like you were saying the the identity that you're focusing on whether it's this gentleman that was a photographer or someone else that wants to be an athlete or someone else I want to be an author whatever it is it's one thing that you're chasing if you don't have that thing this sort of futility of life is very overwhelming to some people and they want to escape that pain the pain of not knowing what the fuck you're doing and I think some of that I mean is going to sound like go way out there but I think some of that goes back

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to the hunter-gatherer genes that we have in our in our own bodies I think we're in a lot of ways where a prisoner to the needs of the past and the needs of the past where we were very goal-oriented yet go out there you know to pick the right amount of food that you could eat yet a hunt the animals or catch the fish and that was the goal and we were very goal oriented in that way you had to go out there and do that you have to work hard and then through those goals you get this feeling of satisfaction

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when you're just getting food and it's comes to you when your job involves doing something that's not rewarding in any way shape or form and this is what you have to do to get that food you've sort of taken out all the natural reward systems that our bodies are designed to to sort of gravitate towards and unless you find a passion less you find an art or a craft or trade or some sort of a thing that excites you mentally and stimulates your creativity and stimulates your ambition

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your left lost and there's a lot of people that are just left lost and unfulfilled and unsatisfied and I think those types of people gravitate towards alcohol and a lot of other drugs as an escape and that's a part of the problem with Society was how we viewed drugs we view drugs as an escape rather than an enhancement or rather than a perspective and enhancer we view them as all this guy's week he needs a drug yeah

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I think you're spot on I don't know how you can argue that but it like ties altogether so I know you sound like liberal I mean you plural e sound like liberal hippies when you like start putting all these things together but these things really do tie in together so you have the alcoholism because people are finding their identities so we should be doing things like help people create identities if we want to safer environment right so it's not about taking those people and put them into prisons as

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you articulated it's about finding that passion or educating them to do something and and so if you want to help or police or whoever wants to help you have to be addressing those kind of issues and I think so people one thing we've noticed throughout throughout human history is that when things are really tough and there's no resources right the the leaders of the oppressed like so say

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it's really easy to use black segregated neighborhoods that right now it's easy example well slide just he's he's an obvious example so it's a very good exist so the masculine members of a society that can't achieve something they turn to making everything about masculinity and dominance and accepting of the of that lower realm and they start to treat intelligence and education as effeminate

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or weak and and so you have a that's that plays into the culture of where you have the guns and everybody has to you know the disrespecting culture and this is my corner kind of culture so we have those kind of benefits that are factor also in leveling the playing field for everybody and contributing so one of the things that we're doing right now is we're building a studio like this in Baltimore and and it's called radio revolver and that would be my Shameless

► 02:28:13

ugh so go find me radio revolver we still need a few more thousand dollars of figure fix everything up what are you doing so we are making it so we have a video recording like Skype session we have the uh podcasts the whole setup like this for with eight mics and we're trying to set everything up we have local artists that are painting everything in the inside let me stop you right now eight people going to talk over each other never have more than two okay okay we've made that mistake many times we have

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these fight companions with for and they're my best friends we're all fucking yelling over each other I try to watch one of those the other day I was like oh my God I'm getting a headache sometimes there those are pretty fun all the loose we get hammered if they're ridiculous but I'm just saying if you have eight people the really it's like you ever heard that expression what one boy one boys work to boys half boys work meaning that like if you have two young kids together and they're working on something just gonna start talking shit

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it's not going to get done and one's gonna go and get ya if you have one kid that's digging a hole he's going to actually get that job done but if you have like four people nothing gets done that that that's really the case and I'm definitely gonna write that down it's 8 Peeples to money so one of the people that I met was if you ever hurt serial podcast Jamie do you know I'm not sure so okay why doesn't that no I don't but I can wear of it okay the first season is about an odd Saeed who is wrongfully imprisoned right now in Maryland still right so his

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definitely wrongfully I think so well so regardless of whether you get a point of whether he did or not I'm honestly unaware of the case would it was accused of so in high school at 17 of murdering his ex-girlfriend a classmate at Woodland High School the evidence regardless of whether or not someone was argue about whether he actually did or not the evidence is extremely clear that you do not have the evidence to put this individual in jail period it's not there his best friend is the partner with me

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for radio revolver and we ended up being connected for because I helped out on that podcast for a while and you know we have this community that we form now so he's helping me with this and this is an example of how you use your privilege and sensationalism so I was sensationalized by what I said before right by the the cops hitting people and all the things they did and probably what I'm most proud of is that I instantly switch from that sensationalism to how we fix things and

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the reform measures are and we don't even talk about this Sensational ISM anymore but don't you think the sensationalism was important because it brought you to people like me it's critical yeah right so the successfulness of turning that around into something productive part of that is this radio revolver so if you have privilege and you have an advantage or something which you have to do is you have to build platforms for other people build structure so that other people can rise not just for yourself and the idea behind this is

► 02:31:14

we'll have the network so it ended up being TurnKey it's in a room that anybody can come in at any time and if the community map the community members we already have them tied in I think we're going to have a problem with who we cut out versus who we're going to let in and we're in creating the entire infrastructure under one umbrella for them to come in and have their voices heard and get their message out there they can build a podcast they can build a video like a TV show type of thing and the none of this is ever going to cost any of them anything and if they

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they succeed and we end up getting to a point where we're in the red then we just start taking all the prophets and distribute them out to whoever you know proportionally has the podcast that does the best or whatever and but the point of that is is that you have that is going to enable at least 10 to 20 identity projects so somebody else has to come in and do the other end of that take whatever you have and do that same kind of thing if you have money then we can take the money and we can do

► 02:32:13

good with that if you have that skill then you can come into a place like we're building or a place like Penn North and passed that on that is really what we have to do as an individual level and if so I would always love it if people would help me out with radio revolvers so we can get that finished so you're what you're going to do is you're going to put together a podcast and through that podcast you're going to have people tell their stories you're going to expose the whatever they have world to the the plight of these inner cities and the

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positive stories about people rising out of them and your friend the photographer and a bunch of other people that you can get exposed to so I think one of the most important things for a young person is to believe that they can somehow another be successful I remember when when I was young we were poor I always identified with being a poor person and I never thought that I would be anything other than a poor person because I would see people that were wealthy and they always felt so different than me they always felt so anyone who is successful I should even just

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wealthy just a normal person like you know like someone who lives in a normal house with you know a garage and that you know like wow that's a that's a person that the America aspires to they feel different than you if you're from a broken home if you're from poverty and my case obviously was nothing in comparison to the extreme poverty that a lot of people face but I still remember feeling really insecure and really disconnected from

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from successful people I think that mindset is very difficult to overcome it's very difficult it's very difficult to believe that you can achieve something it's very difficult to believe that you can rise from no matter where you are if you continue to work and you continue to pursue your goals and you can avoid all the pitfalls of the negative aspects of society you can do better you can do better and you can feel satisfied in that and to give people these opportunities to see people who have

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I've done the very thing that you're aspiring to do is massively beneficial because it gives them sort of a little bit of a blueprint yeah I mean and that's exactly the point would you say these things I you may as well just be me saying that I agree with you completely I mean it's in critically important that we set these up for people and they can do that and they do that now just reminds me when you said that like they come up to my house and like that's like success to them

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and that's what I am I'm a dude with a single family home and a garage and not really I don't have any money but but that is honestly all anybody ever really needs and wants me you could get a giant ass fucking house but let me tell you something at the end of the day it's just your house you know that it's just where you live it's if is it comfortable is it safe yeah that's what everybody really wants yeah definitely that's really what it's all about and one of the most positive aspects of doing this podcast is running into people that

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Matt that said hey man I've been doing stand-up comedy for three years now I'm actually working comedian I did it from listening to your podcast I knew that I could do it because you told me that anybody can do it if you just try that you I I used to suck and I tell everybody I always I was fucking terrible you but you keep chipping away at it and she's listening to recordings and all that jazz I've run into a million fucking people that have started doing Jiu-Jitsu now I mean it's I'm not a million but it's not countable anymore I've ran into so many people that hey man I just got my purple belt

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listening to you guys you know now I'm competing my mobile lifestyle so much healthier I eat cleaner everything's better my life is just I used to be depressed it's so much more positive so I take great satisfaction would take pride that's not the right word it's great satisfaction feels awesome to talk to people that have looked at this little sort of blueprint that I've laid out and said look anybody could do this you can do this like whatever patterns that you're following because the people that you're around or in these negative patterns you don't have to follow those patterns it's one of the

► 02:36:13

beautiful things about social media and the Beautiful things about the internet as you can kind of choose what you follow me and you could go and just follow negative stuff all day long you could concentrate on negative bullshit and you could be one of those people who goes on Twitter and just bombs on people and shits on people all day and that's going to be your point of focus but you're not going to get any better at anything doing that you're not going to have a better life you're not going to feel better you're not going to be happier you're not going to spread any any anything

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beneficial anything positive to anybody but you can take a choice to not do that and a lot of times you need to see that someone else has done that in order to help you do that but I hope you're inspiring others because you kind of inspired me right now like thinking about how many identity projects that you read even though they were maybe not even been obvious to you because you've gone and use this platform to do these thing I think is highly honorable of you that you use this platform so that I can talk about these things about being

► 02:37:13

black lives matter and about police reform and things like that that's like the typical like prototype of what what we're talking about you you're doing great work by doing that well it's helping me a lot to honestly I mean I think everyone's life is a constant Journey your unless you just stay sedentary and you don't go anywhere and you don't take any new data your life is all about re-evaluating the way you think or evaluating it or enhancing it or adding to it or

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or removing some negative aspects of the way you think and one of the best ways that I found to do that is exposed myself to interesting people like you or like any of the other people that I've had the pleasure and the opportunity to talk to on this podcast you get this I mean I've had three our conversations with 800 fucking well not 800 people but it's wild 800 times and having those kind of conversations it forces you to think it forces you to

► 02:38:13

one of the things that Eddie Wong was saying that really resonated with me is that he likes to write he writes every day and one of the things that the reasons why he likes to write as it makes him solidify his own thoughts he thinks about his own thoughts and it really sort of like it allows him to really really kind of examine them and in go in depth as to how he really truly feels about something and really get up a cleaner perspective instead of just I think a lot of people me included Ben

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guilty this in the past we operate on momentum we just get a path you're on it for some whatever reason and they just sort of stuck and you just sort of behave that way and think that way and you don't ever examine it you never stick and writing allows you to really pause and look at that podcasting does the same in a lot of ways it allows me to pause and really think about some of the things that I've attached myself to or not attach myself yeah and it's recorded never going to be able to high so I just recorded this shit's live right

► 02:39:13

so it is Hewitt is G it's you it's who you are you know and off for good or for bad and you get to see negative aspects of the way you think in the way you talk and then you get to see the repercussions of those and you get to consider like why did I think that way was I just was it just a knee-jerk reaction was it just you know was I tired that day was I not respecting the medium was I not respecting the power of these thoughts and these conversations most likely a combination of all those things

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things but through the personal growth that is been afforded me by the podcast it's helped me in as much as it's helped anybody it's helped me tremendously and having these kind of conversations with people like you or a giant part of that thanks I don't know how to take that guy stuff that I really it's that but like I don't know I can't I can't sing your Praises enough for having that kind of mentality and being the alpha male that

► 02:40:13

vulnerable and let other people see that it's okay those things are important it's okay for the tough guys that to let their guard down and be introspective and to be people that are willing to help and reach out it's entirely admirable like chank is another person that I've gotten closer you've had a moniece erase the name is Jack Jenkins and his name right yeah I'm glad that you say I write he oh he jokes about that house like people have known his whole life Sarah so you're right it's Jake

► 02:40:43

right the J right well The Young Turks what they've done is they've developed this sort of alternative media platform that's outside of the mainstream media but it has arguably as much impact when you look at what they've been able to do on YouTube and they're one of many you know there's a lot of people that are pushing unusual ideas on the internet The Amazing Atheist is another one I've really enjoyed a lot of his stuff lately TJ is a fucking really bright guy and

► 02:41:13

he puts out some really interesting well-thought-out videos you gotta pee or something that was that so that's giving away inside address just talk about Jank we got Jake Jesus he's good I gotta go see him this week just don't call him Chang so we're putting our money where our mouth is we got locked up this year you guys got locked up and do you see my rest it of co-directors got the pictures of it Jake did to you got arrested to your lab we got arrested together do you arrested for for sitting in for democracy spring

► 02:41:43

is that serving and protecting how does that work I've been serving do you will yeah do you guys get a wreck arrest records for that okay so I guess I still get in Canada I guess Jake does real legit arrest record so I fought it because it was in DC right because close to you it's close to me I can find it so they ended up dropping the charges on me okay we had got a phone call that there was no way they were going to put me

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chance to speak in a record it public forum let's I said yeah so what were you protesting the get money out of politics so we're not people like Jack and I are not just talking of our asses on this we mean it and so we went and we participated in the March and got the arrested in Washington DC why did you get arrested for what was the charge like loitering or some bullshit

► 02:42:43

forget how they completely worded it and so it's because you were protesting in a public area and blocking traffic or something and that's what they said there was nobody trying to go in or out of the capital and that's where we were right but they wouldn't be able to if they did want to because you guys are away okay well that's kind of loitering right but that does get attention to what your honor is the largest mass arrests and DC history was like 200 some of us have got to rest of the first day wow like 450 overall

► 02:43:13

so we have we have some good pictures of it if Jamie the website is not working it's Maywood photography ma e wo OD H that that's my phone I'm sorry so what were the cops like when they arrest you I'm like I'm sorry this is bullshit we got a rescue or they're being dicks some of them were still be next unbelievably considering it was when you see this crowd so they were treating you like an actual criminal even though it's pretty obvious

► 02:43:43

trying to campaign against something that's something nobody really thinks is a good thing money and politics right the lieutenant said hey I'm glad that you guys are out here doing that the really the lieutenant said that right holy but these are Capitol Police I've sang their praises before but they don't face a lot so they had there's Jake

► 02:44:07

so that's Captain Ray Lewis he also was arrested and who swears his uniform to he's a retired Philadelphia police officer and he wore his uniform he doesn't got arrested in his uniform Jesus and they took a sign and threw it away and they charged us say what is the science a massive civil scratched out disobedience is next warning massive disobedience is next what does that mean well because I'm assuming what he means by this but right now

► 02:44:37

the Disobedience of civil right so we're protesting we're doing things like this but like I'm flabbergasted that the black community in these neighborhoods hasn't really said enough is enough yet like the idea that we they have children and family members dying in these streets the probably scared to get arrested man if they are but I just dirt there's a Breaking Point that's coming and that's that's what he's trying to say is and what I've tried to focus on don't scroll what's up with the do

► 02:45:07

it with the nose ring fuck's going on there oh he's a he's an actual remember tribe he's from and he participates in a lot of these things and what about the do with the musket scroll down there Jay I don't know if that's the case I don't know what bad it's wood looks like a musket when I was only seeing the tip of it what yeah the tip of the I thought it was just a musket it's all tip never just a tip don't fall so I don't know we're saying dollars in what does that scroll down dollars in

► 02:45:37

context grass scratch out so it's essentially just a bunch of people standing in a place where the government didn't think you should be able to stand right and we kind of keep drawing attention to this money in politics is I really think that's the route I mean it's the root of everything we can't end the drug war because of this we can't write move anything forward we can't do police reform because of this democracy spring they're calling it yeah that was the one day different groups that different days so as a whole week long this was the the first day was the biggest day and

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you'll have me in handcuffs at the end of entually hmm

► 02:46:11

but so now tell me how long do you have to stay in jail for just in the night oh no annoying like what snoring wasn't real jail there were so many people that it was just like they were keeping us in like animal pens it felt like so we would just be like penned off like they took us to a devout Layla and had like like fences like portable fences and they were like what you like so it's not like you really couldn't get out you could get out if you wanted to so I guess I could have if I really wanted to

► 02:46:40

how's it going to go right for an escape charge this is so silly but seems like so that's a dumb way to handle it everybody's smiling getting handcuffed right scratch you see it's a pretty white crowd it's fuck so I think that helps on the way the police act like some people just psyched to be hanging out with Jank yeah you know it's weird so I mean that's an example of another thing I mean you can go and you can participate in these things so if that is a passion of yours

► 02:47:10

yours I think that's another identity thing that we have you can you can go and put these groups there's all these groups out there and like you're saying that these people feel lost and they're turning to two other things but we have all these things out there and if you don't have once create one like there are out there like the tyt family like your family like black lives matter we have tons of of movements going on that that you can do something positive with no matter who you are okay so tell us one more time

► 02:47:40

what's the name of this podcast and when do you hope this thing's going to start so name of the podcast the the radio right now is called it's called radio revolver and that's just the umbrella why radio revolver and there are about guns yeah we've only had that play So revolving door like a prison cells how I envisioned it they wanted to use like a gun logo and it's like no no no I can't do that radio revolver podcast Network alright so here's some of the friends that I've made that are activists around and they're definitely be ones that are in there we were doing a serious show we took that picture

► 02:48:10

and so the donating is for equipment for rental space but wait we have two spaces do need it by Sade it's a basement of his house all blocked off and done so that's not an issue we have that done what do you need we're still just getting the last bit of equipment we have some of the local artist painting the walls now oh great and so we're close well I mean like maybe $3,000 and I and we're set well let me know when you guys launch and I will absolutely tweet it out let everybody be aware of it the

► 02:48:40

someone is going to so again part of the part of the thing that we're going to do is we just take advantage of me right and the publicity hmm so the first one is going to be a joint project with undisclosed who is affiliate with serial story and all and that one's going to be misconduct which is going to be one of the series we have so there's going to be multiple podcasts okay one of them is going to be misconduct and then you'll have like the photography water your have a public health one like Doc

► 02:49:10

Clarence Brown is is going to do a public health one so you're essentially building like a whole station whole station okay great right and so everybody that wants in you know as long as you learn what you're doing and everything you will be able to have your voice heard in whichever manner you want that's a great idea because you know this is one of the easiest ways to get a message out and the message that you know you when you hear someone talk man and you hear their words and you get to know them through the hours and hours of conversations you get to know them in a really deep intimate way you're citing examples

► 02:49:40

either you walk around at everybody to this year they know you people hug me I don't even know I'm like hey what's up right so the first one is called misconduct which is going to be a series and the I'm going to do the first one and it's going to be the killing of Freddie gray so we're what we're going to do for that is go through the story and when we first go through the story the first episode will start and we're start telling what happened like so these cops are in this neighborhood and Freddie gray is in this and then we go but wait why does it look this way

► 02:50:11

and then so like somebody like Doc Brown will come in and we're go over through the history of segregation how the neighborhoods are formed the way they are why the cops were all white why the citizens are all black and we'll go explain that story and then the next episode I'll start over again start telling the story and when will hit the next hurdle which will you know be something like well why are they going after him for the drugs why are they chasing him so then we'll break down the history of the laws and why they

► 02:50:40

why that is done the way it is what policing philosophy is have led to this until we finish out the entire story and everybody can understand the Nuance to what happened behind the murder of Freddie gray all right man we'll listen thank you very much appreciate it and we'll definitely want to do that thing with my friend Justin if he's down we'll have a fucking gun control hoedown up in this bitch I'm certainly the end will definitely promote your podcast as soon as it launches radio revolver so go to go fund me.com forward slash

► 02:51:10

radio revolver go and contribute and you can follow Michael on Twitter Michael would Juniors I would it is on twinkle Edward jr. Michael a wood jr. on Twitter thank you brother really appreciate always good seeing you again we'll do it again it's definitely thank you folks we'll be back soon bye big kiss muah muah muah muah muah thank you my friends for tuning in as always thanks to caveman coffee for powering us through this motherfucker whoa go to kbank coffee co.com and get yourself some

► 02:51:40

will Source single family single origin goodness you know it's one of the most important things about caveman coffee is that it all comes from one place and we know where it comes from there's one Farm in Colombia that's Run by One family and it's not a big business it's a small business and the quality is very high and I'm sure you've all aware of the term Fair Trade Fair Trade when it comes to coffee is it's important because you're buying coffee you don't know how do the people

► 02:52:10

will feel that work there like what kind of people work at the organization what it means this slave labor like where's it coming from well all that's laid out with caveman Crossing it is one single family it does it all and they do it and then they roasted and Keith Jardine tape Fletcher and Lacey Mackey all involved in the company and they sell it online and they're developing some small stores that sell it now to some caveman coffee shops and it will continue to expand but it's an awesome

► 02:52:40

with awesome people behind it in the coffee is Diggity Damn Delicious wow so caveman coffee co.com thank you also to on it.com go to ONN itu's the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements thanks to movement watches excellent watches that you don't have to break the bank to get a beautiful watch that works great looks great really well-designed minimalist attractive go to m VM T watches.com

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L and of course we're brought to you many many many episodes by square space which is an awesome way for you to develop your own website do-it-yourself simple easy-to-use interface if you can move files around on your computer if you can add a photograph to an email you can make a bang-up website with Squarespace so go to squarespace.com /jo to start your free trial today at squarespace.com /jo my friends thank you that's it

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sit this podcast is over thank you everybody and thank you everybody came to San Francisco this this past weekend I had a fucking great time at the Fillmore epic epic venue really like one of the most historical venues of all time when it comes to music and even comedy I've got a Lenny Bruce poster in my office that was Jamie pointed out really almost 50 years to the day that I was there crazy he was there June of 1966

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so thank you friends and we'll see you soon