#441 - Brian Dunning

Jan 14, 2014

Brian Dunning is an American writer and producer who focuses on skepticism. He has hosted a weekly podcast, Skeptoid, since 2006 and is an author of 5 books on the subject of scientific skepticism.

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The Joe Rogan Experience

Tracy Chapman Brian. I thank you sir thanks for coming on one of the cool things about the internet is that you can get connected to all these weird and unusual folks and you could also exchange a lot of information back and forth and find out a lot of things about each other and about you I read about you and I read some of the things that I didn't know when you contacted me that you would include me in your how many celebrities were there 8 or 10 it was a top 10 most wanted celebrities promoting harmful pseudoscience and in that I read about myself and I was shocked to learn that I believe that nine-one-one was created by the government I did not know I didn't know that I believe that I don't think you've ever said that I've never said that we can talk about the whole Genesis of how this list came to be well that's a but that one is poorly research absolutely never said that I think that the government engineer 911

you know this this was an episode I did in 2008 which was five six years ago now and so before coming here today I wanted to make sure and get all my sources for all of these and unfortunately back in 2008 I was not yet keeping very good records and saving my notes so for the things that I have listed here unfortunately I can't give you the source for any one of them but any one of them you want to tell me is not true I will happily retract well first of all the 911 one 100% in fact I was on the phone with Alex Jones the night that 911 happen

I'm sure it didn't take him till that night to figure it out did it but when you say that like people go whoa is he a psychic he predicted a billion things that never happened you know

that doesn't mean that he's he's a clairvoyant and means he's he's a tightly tightly strung tightly wound up fella how do you think but we debated it online on the air like you know I was like how do you can't say that like there's no evidence of shows that the government did it like you just because you suspect him of doing that you can't say it is also crazy shit that happens when planes fly into buildings and I have a dr. Real good doctor Ibiza pot doctors Stockton hands you out medical marijuana prescriptions but I guess he went to medical school I go to him the other day and he hands me this book and he's like this is very important information and I go okay so I start reading it and it's about Tesla technology that they use to make the Twin Towers disappear I got that the Twin Towers the reason why they turn into dust and they just didn't fall apart in the big chunks is cuz Tesla Tech my son he was he was like having a mental issue like I thought something would get blown a fuse or something I got was so confused by the conversation I didn't know what

I'm saying like you saying that used unknown technology to make the buildings disappear how did you know then set up stick book ethology is a whole other area of of BS which is which is amazing so many of the things that test was known for never happened he was he was certainly a very brilliant man certainly a an Innovative engineer but he didn't invent AC he didn't invent electric motors of these are all things that already existed that he continued working on he never invented the death rate he was completely nuts by the time of his life he said he had a break he and Edison did have the competition or the other competing ideas about alternating current and direct current and he was an advocate of altered and alternating current where Edison in fact did tests to show where did displays rather demonstration the show the dangers of this and one of them's it is a fried an elephant yeah it's really fucked man if you watch it

it was hoping that that word would catch on that's hilarious so I don't know where you got the 911 thing from but if I had listened to me talk about the moon landing I probably assumed that I was also a non-believer 911 so no never said that and never believe that the only thing I've ever said that's controversial at all is that Tower 7 when you watch it fall it looks like an controlled Demolition and I don't think this controversial because it looks like controlled demolition but it does look at the whole thing the way that the way the structure of the top it does look exactly like a controlled demolition it's more than the top quarter pull the pull the video up of tower 7 dropping there's some pretty I mean this at least 30 floors or saying you're seeing a lot of it it's not really I wouldn't say it's the top quarters of 48 for building. I believe I could argue the fractured but you don't see the bottom of it that's true but it is very unusual how it falls into its base instead of Falls

over didn't it fell it started to fall down straight but then it almost destroyed to other buildings that it fell against it didn't fall into its own Foot Right which any building that they were demolishing would probably do as well they were that close to each other in that went wrong right I watch it again here yeah that's where you want to talk or see it again cuz we caught that in the middle let's eat again let's see if from the top this is not the best angle of a different angles all okay let's do it again pull that one back

I mean it disappears into the smoke before you can see my dry but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that I think doesn't fall into his face look at it it doesn't the bottom I mean let's look at that one again. Okay but if you keep being kind of silly that thing collapse into a space look at that watch here goes. As most of the building vanishes who knows what happens from then on and for sure it ran into other buildings the point is they should never happened before and it looks like a controlled demolition I'm not saying it but but let me clarify I'm not saying it's controlled demolition I don't have no idea but that's what it looks like to say it doesn't look like that's kind of silly but if you want to see how it fell into its own base quote on quote just look at the aerial photographs that were taken the next day when all the smoke and cleared and you can see the did remotely fall into its own basic fell down the street and just practically destroyed to other buildings so it doesn't matter all that material has to go somewhere

48 floors of material in all comes down to collapse it's it's going to fly to the side slept over it started going down and then it went to an angle and fell off to the side thing that a lot of people want the world to be very black and white and they want things like this to be like really simple to categorize I don't think it is and I don't agree with you that that didn't fall into its base sure a lot of other shit happen to probably big chunks of it landed on buildings nearby but nothing collapse into its base did it collapse in with base because of a gigantic diesel fire that consumed the innards of the building and weaken the structure considerably for sure that's possible I don't know a goddamn thing about my dad's architect you know I asked him about it and he said well it's unusual but you don't know what the hell is going on inside of it you don't know what kind of damage sustained from having the building Fallout at you don't know what that diesel fuel burning what it does this truck she don't know

how to build the inside of it who knows it's weird but weird things happen when things break that was his take on it but you can't say that that doesn't look like controlled Demolition and I didn't I said it does look like a controlled demolition as you can see the most controversial thing I've ever said about 911 I've never said once that I think that the government engineered it or that it was I think it's very possible that big events happened and then people capitalize on those events and then things happen like the invasion of Iraq they're probably looking for an excuse to do anyway but the idea that it was all one big grand scheme to me seems ridiculously unlikely actually a good Segway into what we started to talk about which was this this inclusion that I had if you go back in the rise list of top celebrities promoting pseudoscience because what if someone who just listens to our last five minutes here of the exchange it sounded like you were trying to convince me that 911 was a hoax

guy who to who were the two would say that I think anyone who listens to that five minutes it would sound like you were trying to convince me Building 7 was a demolition know it wouldn't be very specific that I don't think it's a great thing as a black and white issue I think it's very grey area I think that that Building look like it was demolished was it the most absolutely don't know I'm too dumb I have zero education when it comes to Structural Engineering zero education when it comes to the damage that a fire can do to a structure and cause it to collapse in big chunks of buildings hitting it what that can do I don't know but when I look at it it looks like a controlled demolition that does not sound like I'm trying to convince you that 911 was a hoax cuz I said very specifically that I don't think it is and then I think that it's ridiculous to assume that someone could be so organized that they could talk these guys in the flying planes into buildings and if they can make it that these buildings are rigged with explosives secretly in the some clandestine operation with the the banks in the NSA and the DEA in the sea I ever one cord

getting together so we could invade Iraq it sounds ridiculous and she doesn't know man if you had the back yes or no was 9-11 orchestrated by the government if you had to bet would you believe but I would have sent that but I know but I wouldn't be surprised if two of two additional possibilities one it was something that they knew possibly could happen it didn't prevent against because either of a incompetence or B have to look at things like operation Northwoods you have to look at the Gulf of Tonkin you have to look at real events that took place or real plans that were separate question I would say I would say there's always the possibility that there was some knowledge of it before he passed but that's a separate question also then they orchestrated at home cost at the house I do not have enough faith in the government is so confident that they could pull off it's amazingly intricate attack so if you're a hundred percent if you're a hundred percent wedding know that I wouldn't think so that means I might bet no but it doesn't mean

I'm asking for your personal level of confidence your opinion in your person that you're forcing me to bet then I would bet now I would never say I know one way or the other so if I asked you what is your bet on whether Building 7 was a controlled demolition are you still a hundred percent no I certainly wouldn't bet I certainly wouldn't that because I don't know enough but if I looked at it the way the way a person whose objective a person who understands what they know and what they don't know in this life I would have to say they would be pretty fucking difficult to rig a building with explosives and not have anybody know about it we pretty fucking difficult to make that building and clothes and have it be some sort of a secret that people kept it seems highly unlikely it seems more likely to me that there's some sort of a catastrophic structural failure but

I would fucking shoot the shit out of those people that build that movie that building rather if I was Larry what's his name that had a Larry Silverstein I would sue the fuck out of the people that build that building was like look at it when does fall down when it gets on fire like you assholes I just got paid though from insurance right he didn't need to do that and the fact that you said pull it might take that anytime there is a any sort of a catastrophic event whether it's a murder or an accident or anything there's a bunch of people that look for patterns in the chaos there's a bunch of people that look for the following plot line and you know and look for some sort of Anna Faris connection between people that would profit off this event and just the randomness of chaotic of a being attacked of death in about destruction I think it's more likely that it's more likely that people are looking at this and trying to make some sense out of it

crazy chaotic event where there's a bunch of suicide bombers that flew planes into buildings you know when Neil Tyson was here but how long ago was making the point about how he tries very much to give people the tools to teach everyone all the facts but you can give people the tools so they can probably figure out what's true what's not true and you made some points about why that's a valuable thing to have why it's good to have to be able to make good decisions about the way the world works and understand the way things really happen and it sounded to me like you pretty generally agreed with him yes and I would too

so in the case of this 911 as it as an example I mean we've got a hundred different conspiracy theories here at cetera cetera and not even disparity there is but just plain up pseudo-sciences it makes just it make sense to help people to come to the right conclusion to come to a conclusion is probably true because that's symptomatic of all the other areas in their life where they're going to have to consider issues and make up a good informed opinion that's probably more likely to be true wouldn't you agree with that I mean that's so if it didn't make sense for you to two

to promote the idea that 911 was probably not a government conspiracy then why would you spend 5 minutes showing me this video and bring it to to to the attention of everyone on your show saying hey look at this look how it was probably controlled demolition that's how I said I'm sorry look how much it looks like a controlled demolition cuz it does cuz it's interesting yeah but unless your framing that within the context of look how easy it is to be mistaken which is not what you said but wait why why do I have to do that to just observe something that's fascinating you don't have to do it but what meal was Tyson was trying to sell you one was the value of doing it help giving people the tools to understand the way the world probably actually work how does that relate to you listening to me go on about how it looks like a controlled demolition you agree that it looks like a controlled demolition to just because I'm expressing that you're saying that if someone listen to that they think they would think rather that I'm trying to convince you that 911 was a hoax I think that's a giant stretch enormous

I think that's what it sounded like I didn't sound like that to me I don't know it's most rational objective people listening they would have heard all the cabinets that I threw in there all the times that I said now I don't believe this I don't but looking at that and watching collapse like that it looks like a controlled demolition I think you would be a fool to disagree it looks exactly like that is it one that's not what I'm saying I don't know I've said very clearly I know nothing about architecture architecture I know nothing about engineering I know nothing about the impact of diesel fire on concrete and steel I don't know how this is a good Segway to what I wrote back in 2000 which hopefully the end result of me being here today will be I will get back to all my listeners and say

I'm retracting your appearance on this list number 8 on my list of top 10 celebrities who promote harmful pseudoscience and here's the paragraph that I wrote on your number right Joe Rogan comedian Joe Rogan does what he can to promote virtually any conspiracy theory that he stumbles onto apparently accepting them all uncritically with a wholesale Embrace and I know you would disagree with that now he believes the Apollo Astronauts did not land on the moon he believes the US government was behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks he believes the Oliver Stone version of the Kennedy assassination he believes aliens crashed at Roswell in 1947 and the government is covering it up he thinks Men In Black from Project Blue Book stole his friends camera even though Project Blue Book ended over 38 years ago my friend list any 60 by the way and I didn't steal his camera

took it when he was a little boy took a photo of something who knows what it was I never said it was Project Blue Book guys are they I told you what my friend who's a flight surgeon told me I wish to hell I have that I have the reference call Steve and get him on the phone Steve Grant actually the worst part is that he promotes these ideas to the public at every interview opportunity but gives himself the intellectual get-out-of-jail-free card of not needing any evidence by hiding behind the childish debate technique of saying hey I'm just a guy asking questions got this makes me sound like an asshole

well it's just factually inaccurate on so many different levels I don't understand why you wrote it like that like that there's things that you said that I believe that I don't that I've never said that I do what I'm going to do is look stupid and by talking about things and saying that looks like a controlled demolition I know that puts you into the nutter camp but I'm not saying it's a controlled demolition but I say that not being willing to debate it and being insecure to discuss it rather not to ban it but to discuss the reality of what you're viewing is silly it's Preposterous it doesn't mean I'm promoting the idea that 911 was an inside job or that it was a plot by the government I don't think that I've never thought that but I do think that building looks like a controlled demolition that's all I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that I think I think at the time that I did this I think you would it was shortly after when you went on Penn jillette's radio show and talk with Phil plait about the moon the optimum number that sure and you kicked his butt

well unfortunately look I would not have handled that the way I handle it then today but there's two unfortunate one was that I really wanted him when we first went on to give me a reason to not believe what this fox documentary showed me but the more I talk to him the more I realized he was almost like talking in the end of religious sense in that he wasn't willing to criticize any aspect of NASA or any aspect of what was going on during that time including the point where he was trying to deny the fact that Werner Herzog or where did Von Braun rather and many other scientists we're actually not that would come over and Operation Paperclip and he's like you know he's trying to deny that they are not seem like this is crazy like you're trying to deny historical fat because you think that a storical fax Shades NASA in a bad way and I don't think it does I think the mass of 1969 or 63 when Kennedy was in office is not the NASA 2013 or 14 these these people are long dead and gone and just to deny that there was a bunch of not

he's involved seems to me that's not healthy it seems to me like it's fucking with the fax and doesn't support your argument in fact makes me question all the other stuff so then I started getting aggressive with them cuz I'm like what you're being silly because this isn't the you're not you're not being honest about the Nazis you're not being honest about this connection okay well I got to throw that back at you what the hell does whether they're not Sue's or not have anything to do with what we went to the moon but it doesn't but denying the fact they were Nazis has something to do with what kind of information I'm getting from him I'm not getting unbiased information Wernher von Braun had gone to Antarctica to pick to collect rocks to collect meteors and you brought that up and I think you said words the effect of getting why the heck would have done that unless it was part of some grander scheme to fake bringing rocks back from the Moon am I correct about that I said well I said Wernher von Braun did go to Antarctica you did when they were preparing for the moon landings have no idea

Wernher von Braun in this big crew it does it was one of the few places were they could go that they could study meteors they were definitely from the Moon right and fill it feel that was on what feels an astronomer is not a space historian you. No reason to know that but why why were you bringing that up what does that have to do with the question will the big conspiracy was of course that he had brought these rocks back from there and then somehow or another those were the ones they Forge for the moon rocks when they talked about where they get these rocks are from the Moon well there's absolutely meteors that came from the Moon that are in Antarctica you can find them they can retrieve them the document that are so that the idea is to have a chunk of the Moon here's here's the Rocks we brought back from the Moon we wanted we want to know what to look for we want to know what they're what kind of mass that got things like that pan out of how to make room for the contents are I mean as an alternative that could be seen as being consistent with the moon landing was exactly exactly would you call it evidence or would you call it consistent with or would you say those are the same thing I wouldn't say it Sevyn

I mean look all you could say that they could land on the moon okay let's say which by the way I believe now and let's say that they took spaceships and they went there and they brought that moon rocks I think if you knew for sure that there were some moon rocks in Antarctica you would absolutely go there and study them I don't think it's a bad thing but I do think that if you were a guy looking for something that confirms your suspicions of a of a conspiracy which I was I would say We'll look they went to get moon rocks and that's because that's the big thing I was saying they brought back X kilograms of moon rocks where they get those they got them from the article and look here's a photo of Wernher von Braun in Antarctica collecting moon rocks the fucking cast on his arm for some strange reason how do you break his arm do you know I didn't know they had some old school cast some fucking monkey cartoon cast like a bar in between but he must have really jacked his arm but it probably broke his arm to get him a lie about going to the Moon see I just got it all locked up

what is podcasting then and I certainly wasn't watching as many documentaries readings many books I wasn't was in the middle of doing Fear Factor in working for the UFC and I'd watch this documentary on the fox the fox documentary on conspiracy theory did we really go to the moon and it was incredibly compelling of your a retard like me and you watching Brian O'Leary who is an astronaut saying that he could see that they could fake it and you're watching the bill kaysing who's the guy works at Rocket died and he said that the engineers all agree that no one could do this and then you look at the different backgrounds that they showed in different trips and they were really basic same background but it was nowhere near each other they had done it they done a really good job of piecing together all this weirdness and then do it with a narrator and spell it out for you and I bought it hook line Sinker for sure the real issue there's a bunch of real issues with fake in the Moonlight of course the numbers of people that would be involved the amount of technology that you would have to Discount where people could track

does the lunar module as it went to medida lineage of creating the Saturn V and how they did the stages of Tash all the different mathematical calculation they did create them if you break it down to an hour documentary for a dummy and you put some spooky music in it and you keep cutting back and forth the commercials you going to believe that we didn't go to the Moon yeah it's it's the easiest I do in the world to sell conspiracy theories are so just people want to believe them they satisfy so much they're fun to find me to feel like you've got some secret Insider information but is also there was evidence that NASA did fake some publicity shots they did from the Gemini program Michael Collins they use a photo of him where he was in a simulator and they used it and I blacked it out and had the exact same image and release it as a press photo so what is this deception does that mean it was deception across the board know but

I did the Syfy show in the middle of the Syfy show someone who was an editor took some footage and spliced in some sound and faked something and said that a user sent it in not to my knowledge and I found out about it and freaked out and I said when you fake one thing a week we spent this entire show trying to figure out the truth about something and you guys for dramatic effect fake one thing you fucked up the whole show because what you did as you cast doubt on everything else this show is ever going to say ever like literally has to almost died right here because in the ethics of creating a completely on a show has already been gone it's already been washed away and when you watch you know something like the moon landing and you you know you look at the other that these guys are hopping around on on the moon you kind of almost wanted to be bullshit kind of like black guy fucking think I should come on man

you know Michael Collins in the simulator and then the exact image all blacked out background saying that he's actually in space like always inspect who's taking this picture of him in space. Space this is the same image did you guys lied so because of that NASA's they're not perfect they weren't perfect in the fact that they hired a bunch of Nazis and brought him over from from Germany they weren't perfect in the fact that you know I'm sure some people in the publicity apart department told some tall tales and spend some Yarns and you know they had to make up for Gus Grissom dying in that that it's simulator there's a lot of like horrible publicity snafus terrible things that went wrong that eroded people's confidence in in NASA I could easily see the fake here or there a photograph that was that was staged here there that they said happened on the moon or that they said happened in a in space I don't think that that means necessary that the moon landings faked oh then I did

it's it's it's pretty common piece of feedback but I'll get when I do an episode on any any given conspiracy theory and let's say it's one like this that involves the government the feedback that I'll get is so you believe the government loves us and is perfect and everything I do course that's that's perfect for us to have gone to the moon it's not necessary for the government to be perfect for 911 not to touch the classic strongman black and white argument and that's exactly what I said about the building collapsing so basically the same thing it's not doesn't mean that the government is beautiful and perfect in every way because they managed to go to the mountain so should we go to this checklist here and she which of these I can take off yeah what was it what was the other one you had another one that I disagreed with it was it was the first 100 the assassination I would love it if it was a hoax though

right now I would love it almost more than I love the fact that people went to the moon I would love it if it was a hoax Capricorn won best movie ever. Wasn't even close it was a good movie but alien was the best movie ever the only in one the first one in my opinion the evil corporate government conspiracy behind on this podcast many times because Oliver Stone created in the Donald Sutherland character they can use this vehicle for this General that's giving him his information in order to spell it all out to the Kevin Costner character I've never said that you know what I said I said if you look at that bullet it doesn't look like it went through people that's what I said cuz if you look at the single-bullet it does not look like it penetrated bone see that bones hurt you that's, Hunter I'm an actual Bonafide Hunter I know it looks like them bullets hit meat and that that bullet does not look like it went through two people did you know

do you like venison I love it I just got one in Wisconsin last month relatives and on the floor again they're sending us stuff all the time that's meat so delicious and so healthy and I'd like the fact that it's wild it's running around wild and then you take it out of the mix but I've never said that Oliver Stone was right in fact I said there was a I like them the movie I think you know Kevin Costner knock it out the park and then was an interesting movie but what I like about it is that it opens up this idea where people start to question what happened what I meant by that statement was you you don't believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone I do not believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone no I think there's ample evidence that there's other people involved but that doesn't mean that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't involved there's another black or white thing everybody wants to either or I think it's very possible that Lee Harvey Oswald was in cahoots with that murder first of all Lee Harvey Oswald was on the scene II about Lee Harvey Oswald was known to be in in bed with all these fucking weirdo characters he had brought

gone to Russia and brought back a woman and when was allowed to reenter the United States the fact that Jack Ruby got to Lee Harvey Oswald and it's like what really high pressure situation she shot the fucking president and you just have wandering through with his gangster can run out to him and put a boat on them it plays out like a movie so it's fact you've got a lot of anomalies that are consistent with any numbers conspiracy and but my take on it is not that I know or that I believe in Oliver Stone my take on it is what a colossal strange event a changing of US history of changing of the way we look at the power of being a president of changing of the way we look at what can happen to someone in this lifetime when someone who's so beloved is John F Kennedy disappeared off the face of the Earth in the world instantaneously changes I think it's a fascinating story and I also think it's fascinating how many enemies he had you can't discount when you're talking about people

who were involved with people who have created Wars people who have absolutely been responsible for the death of Untold thousands of people you can't discount the idea that they would organize a coup I don't know if they did but I do know that that thing was one Colossal Coaster fuck a crazy thing in that the fact that the film was held back until Geraldo Rivera of all people put it on television with Dick Gregory who bought a lot of people don't even realize is a great comedian was a great comedian and activist at the time and it was way into the 70s the Dick Gregory play this on Geraldo Rivera show me to get to see Kennedy's head Snapback and it's approved or film I don't I don't think that that means that someone else did it I think it means there's probably more than one person involved and when you look at the Warren Commission report you look at the inconsistencies and it is a great book about it called the best evidence by David lifton who was he was actually accountant and was hired to go over the Warren Commission report and found

inconsistency after inconsistency over and over again a detailed these in great order but this difference in the inconsistency of the autopsies inconsistencies of the various reports of what went down inconsistencies in the Warren Commission of their findings that would cancel out each other's finding he was at one of the few guys were the first guys to go through the entire 900 volumes fascinating fascinating book that I read when I was living in New Jersey living in New York rather and was doing a gig on the road and I read it and Talking Tom that night oh my God I was in my hotel room all day reading is freaky conspiracy book shit in my pants and I was like 23 years old and then I went on stage that night and just I ate it was terrible night I learned a very valuable lesson from that book don't read or watch depressing shit right before you go on stage should you break into big conspiracy mongering in the middle of your set did you just now nobody came to conspiracy freak for sure for sure that book best evidence was what threw me over the top

Fascination about a month or two ago and I've been putting it off for years because there is so much so much BS and so much real information on that and I found this is this is impossible how am I going to distill this into a 12-minute show cuz my my God what I decide to do is not to address any of the conspiracy theories but just talk about why in general the conspiracy theories

individual and Myriad as they are why they don't stand up to you know what's what we what we unfortunately called the official story quote on quote kind of a weasel word and it really the thing is it what all conspiracy theories have in common is that they are united only in that they dispute the official story for example you can say that the Cubans killed Kennedy or you can say the Russians killed Kennedy or you can say the mob killed Kennedy or you can say the Secret Service men running alongside accidentally shot him whatever and

all the people who promote those conspiracy they they consider themselves United as a group even though their theories are absolutely factually exclusive of one another almost like competing religion exact date they cannot possibly be be brought together the only thing they have in common is that they simply say the government's line and as long as you say the government's lying then hey you're at you're okay you're in the club your theories all right your theory is more like I was talking about this it's it's happened it's happened to Lil cease book I didn't like it what was it called the case closed except Innings Google he talked about one one person that I interviewed who believes Posner to Cheryl posner's Case Closed one person he interviewed

believe that Kennedy was still alive and that he had committed suicide yes I heard the the Secret Service man shot them I heard I heard like you could see him shoot him on the on the video for that the driver side

even even having even even one person having their own belief that is self-contradictory seems more likely than believing what the government says and

the government obviously is not perfect but you can't you cannot say that just because the government agrees with one particular version of events that that event is there for wrong you write a huge hugely popular argument that I get reclaiming history the assassinating I didn't read the other one you're right however it doesn't disclose the possibility that there was in fact some sort of conspiracy it certainly doesn't but the fact that the that the government found one version of the events more compelling and wrote their official version on that doesn't make that version wrong you're right. The hardest hardest point to communicate to the people who believe that it certainly doesn't the inconsistencies that are traveling in the Warren commission's apart are there there's several but one of the big ones is the single-bullet theory or the need for the single-bullet theory the reason why they needed to formulate a single bullet theory is cuz they had account for three shots they had a new bullet that it hit ricocheted against the curb Stern curbstone on under the overpass in a guy had gotten hit by the ricochet

so he was in the hospital and they seen the mark on the curb Stones they attributed that to a bullet so they say okay when we know for sure someone was shooting from the direction School Book Depository that's one thing that confirmed actually supporting the idea that Oswald did it or that someone in Oswald position did it so Supple it did come from there but now they had to account for all these wounds and so how did they do that well instead of saying well maybe there was more than one bullet maybe there was more than three shots maybe there was more than 2 people shooting they had to come up with some sort of a reason why one bullet could do all this damage that to me seems a much less likely scenario then there's more than one shooter the more than one shooter if you're going to kill the fucking president and if there is a conspiracy and we haven't proven that there's not more that there is but if there's going to be a conspiracy I would doubt you would give it to one guy named Lee Harvey Oswald one guy and give him a rifle it's not even that fucking good and put them in the window and give him this crazy shot but most people are not going to make that's not a good shot if you've ever shot at something

moving targets are incredibly difficult and moving targets when your of the shity bolt action rifle and you got to reload it it's a long time to do that you can get it off if you were I mean I've seen the people that have pulled it off in a test where they said try to reproduce it and they can do it you can get those shots off and you can but you're not going to be accurate you need a couple of seconds to be accurate you need your your fucking shooting the president this is not some slow pressure situation this is the first person I've ever assassinated with a rifle my position is that it's more likely that they had a predetermined outcome that they were trying to reach that outcome is that they wanted to tie up everything with Lee Harvey Oswald in one of the best ways to do that is true at all these different wounds to one bullet does it mean that all those wounds were not created by one bullet know because it's one of the weird things that happens when you shoot things things hit bone and they Ricochet and they go weird directions and strange anomalies happened to bullets worth a bullet will kill someone and you look at it it looks like it's

virtually undisturbed every now and then it gets weird but for the most part when a bullet go through to people and shatters Bone and both of them especially the wrist of Connelly on the the the end of it and then whines up in the gurney in this pristine form like the single-bullet theory did when they found that bullet that's unlikely I've got to I've got a 50 caliber round that that we found in Death Valley left over from the days when they would do fighter planes just shooting their machine guns over from China like and what what it what it is is a completely flat and smudged your recognizable piece of copper and protruding out from the center of it is this absolutely pristine tungsten missile that looks like it's fresh from the factory absolutely sharp completely on damage and it's inside this copper jacket that is that's been peeled off field away from it and completely smashed out to

the unrecognizable it is it really packed when I found it we're looking at going what the heck is this is this a bullet that somebody shot into something it's still hanging out yes I understand that what to really really weird stuff to do on the phone with weird so I can go on with bullets are my favorite paperwhites can talk about it I'm really getting into ballistics lately I've been doing a lot of target shooting and talking to have a very good friend my friend Justin who is a complete gun nut and if I have any questions about ballistics and and things I will talk to him about it and you know he'll tell you like weird shit happens sometimes you shoot a person and the bullet will come back at you sooner I like that's happened to guys like guys in Special Forces they've assassinated somebody or shots killed somebody in the bullet hits the bone and somehow another figures out a way to pop out of there I like slides around the inside of the school somehow or another somehow or another ricochets in the you know there's random weird shit that can happen when you shoot people so is it possible that a bullet went to Kennedy and then one of the Connally yeah

how to percent weird shit happens but does it look like that bullet did that not at all know it looks like that bullet they fired into a tank of water that bullet doesn't look like it hit anything because it's it's a LED bullet that's jacketed and the jacket is in bent it's not Disturbed and to my knowledge people have tried to recreate that I know Penn and Teller try to do it I think Miss MythBusters try to do it they weren't able to do it when they hit bone they were only able to do if they pass just threw the flash you can pass through Flash and leave a bill it relatively under stirb if you had bone and you shatter that bone most likely you're making a mess out of that bullet they find pieces in the body also that's a lily in pieces in Connelly's wrist that did not match what was missing from the bullet it was more pieces in Connelly's body they were missing from the bullet does that mean that he didn't get to hit with some random shrapnel bullets are fucking flying weird shit happens and you know there's a lot of weird shit that goes on when you're in a gunfight but I think you would probably have to true that the more than three bullets

aliens in Roswell never said that in fact have a joke goofing on it on my on my comedy special from 1999 where I say that people said the government actually printed in the paper they have recovered a crashed UFO and alien bodies and the next day they made a mistake I'm sorry was just weather balloon like what what about the aliens those Mexicans apparently they're on the balloon they were drinking some Shenanigans took place they mistook the balloon for a pinata it's very tragic you know I never said that I think that what I did say that is it absolutely fascinating and fun thing to think about the fact that they could have found some crashed UFO with another plan in hushed everybody up and hit these bodies a little child's coffins runaway with them but everybody that I've talked to that has ever told me a story about being abducted by UFOs or taken aboard a craft or any of their fucking crazy that's the one thing they all share they all share this

nutty disconnect with reality I talk to people that have told me some weird things about animals I talk to a woman that was very convincing to told me she had a Bigfoot sighting very convincing Les Stroud Survivorman told me some animal was bipedal running to the woods and but as far as UFOs I'm still waiting for the one guy who tells me anything that makes sense I got in a hundred arguments with people when I was filling the Syfy show that we're Believers when I was asking them for evidence outside but where is the evidence that we have sworn affidavit that's not evidence in a court of law you can convicted for murder unless I go that's not scientific evidence I go you have a story that's all you have is a story nobody wants their to be aliens more than me but all I see when I go looking for aliens is a bunch of unfuckable white dudes with stories about spaceships and flying saucers and all sorts of things that make their regular mundane boring life seem insignificant

I forget because of this greater threat greater mystery greater and nygma does huge thing that's going on where we being observed by alien it adds this excitement to an otherwise mundane life does that mean that there are no Airlines absolutely not does it mean that aliens are observing us absolutely not what it does mean is that the consistency that I found in talking to people that claim to that alien experiences make me think that the aliens are so intelligent that they only picked dummies there so intelligent that they pick people that were easily discounted so you would listen to their stories and go let God do tell somebody who the fuck is going to believe you you're crazy say fine people that have a problem with the truth and then abduct mm that's that's the only thing that makes sense would you call your hundred percent yes I'm a huge fan of science it's one of the things that I forgot to argue with Stefan molyneux when he was in the podcast recently not argue but he argues against funding scientific research in space exploration and to me it is it fuel

my day if I get up in the morning and I read about some new thing that they're doing well I mean even though I've been following this idea of putting a man mission on Mars and these people are going to have to go there and it's one way trip and might fucking hands sweat just thinking about it those things fuel my day I'm fascinated by science absolutely fascinated by science the thing that I love doing doing this guy episodes my favorite part of it is solving the Mysteries that people usually leave unsolved because they stopped at the Paranormal explanation for example the whole aliens in Roswell it take that as an example if you take the National Enquirer version of events it's Sensational and it's fun aliens are here aliens are visiting is the government's coming or not I just got all of that all the compelling qualities of a story that we love but the fact is that those people haven't solved the mystery and what I enjoy most is completing the process going all the way through it actually you know actually fine

the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow actually finding the solution to what happened whenever possible and what makes it exciting to these people that you've never really can do that unless you can get a time machine and go back to Roswell New Mexico in 1940 was it 7/7 - 47 of the actual front page of the Roswell daily record on my home framed news that were stories try to fix yourself living at this time and seven years ago so it's weird tell me seven years ago but the other thing that's weird about it is that you can't go back so you can't know you got a bunch of different people and some of them tell you they saw aliens some until you say bodies and Max Roswell so we don't Maxwell brazel would have the fuck his name was swingers and all these different people and I need to see the press conference we have this to look it's just this stuff you know it's so delicious to think in terms of conspiracy to think in terms that the government has this unbelievable magical information that they're not sharing with us cuz they don't think that we can handle it and it becomes

this this thing that makes average everyday life more exciting on that same vein in the question of going all the way back to building 7 for example to me let's let's let's say I don't think it is an open question but let's say the open question of whether it was a government conspiracy or not let's let's say we're just going to leave that unsettle look how can we don't know make what it maybe it was maybe wasn't but to me what's really interesting about that is the underlying science is how would a building made of steel and covered with concrete whatever it was made of how would that melt why would it collapse and understanding the actual Sciences to me a far more interesting than simply doing this anomaly hunting map that is so much more popular and trying to point fingers in and turn it into a whole political ideological thing absolutely what is your background what is your education in my back my background is in computer science and butt

I never I never really worked in the field I was I did software Consulting basically for most of my career until I became a science writer about six seven years ago how would you feel if someone with no software knowledge whatsoever started criticizing software development that you were involved with if they were say like an architect know I would say probably know better than you do right now when you see Architects and Engineers for 911 truth when you see this group of people how many Architects are involved Google that shitt Architects and Engineers for 911 truth is a substantial number of people who actually are in that field and most of them are not it's you know what tiny fraction of a percentage of all the people who work in that. Over all right so if you're trying to look at what the most Architects and Engineers say overwhelmingly they have no problem with quote on quote

honestly that that's been studied by most Architects and engineers and again just for the record again I'm not I don't believe in conspiracy to for 911 I never have but I'm saying that you know this is kind of throws in the face of what you said like these are educated people they were trained is Architects and engineers and they have this this issue with with building 7134 Architects and Engineers I will say this the people who have spent the most time on the question are overwhelmingly Believers in the conspiracy course but where is the causal relationship there it's not that they spent most time learn the most information and then made a rational decision based on what they learn it's the other way around I'm obsessing with it because they were idiot logically married to the idea from the very beginning if you say that that dismisses them and that that's a good thing to say if you trying to dismiss them but I don't think you know them and I don't think you've really examine why they came to these conclusions or why they were in

christening interested in investigating in the first place this is what I do for a living as I talk too fast and I understand that but what I'm saying is I know you didn't give you 2,000 people you didn't ask all those different guy so the say that in a blanket general statement of this is the reason why they came to this conspiracy is a little disingenuous absolutely generalizations are always wrong what we're dealing with here where you had this reluctance to accept the fact that I wasn't saying that 911 was an inside job just cuz I was saying Tower 7 looks like a demolition it's the same thing like you if I listen to this I would think that you're trying to convince no no it's not it's it's not a black-and-white issue there's a lot of weirdness is a lot of weirdness in the world and there's a lot of weirdness and perception there's a lot of weirdness in people that are educated butter also incorrect it's a common thing happens all the time and you're absolutely correct that 2000 people out of what number vast number of Architects and Engineers there exist in the world the real question is how many of those other people that

just examine this is Thoroughly as he's people and you're right the ones they were examined at the ones are looking to find some sort of a conspiracy does that mean they're wrong well in this case you and I both believe that they're wrong but that doesn't mean the wrong there's not a lot of people realistically who work in the field of failure analysis for building structure but those who do

my guess is and people can call and tell me I'm wrong should know when you call in we shouldn't guess is that is that the people who work in building analysis of failure analysis of buildings had no problem with what they saw happening on telling us that it's going to go on how the structure collapsed well if those people that believe in the engineers and Architects for 911 truth created a documentary maybe would be convincing in the other way you know I mean it it really depends on what perspective you coming from when you resign at each uneducated about the subject as you are I what kind of crazy and making a conclusion one way or another

okay that's true but I mean there's a certain amount of information that's widely available about how the building was constructed according to the building they build those buildings in New York that's part of the problem they were skipping on the concrete and fucking Joey what's up with this they're scum the dirt you should stay down my issue with all this is is that you you came to this this instant conclusion that I probably would have reached as well about me about certain subjects well if he believes that she probably is that if he's discussed this then he believed that if you discuss that then he believes that he's promoting dangerous pseudoscience but I'm not I mean I did that certainly have promoted a nonsensical idea in that we never went to the moon but it was based on a lot of really fascinating weird pieces of evidence that are really amazing once

start going down that rabbit hole and following them and watching the the Neil Armstrong speech that he gives a 25-year anniversary speech we talked about removing truth hidden layers all this weird cryptic shit that he did and then all the shit when you looking at the the videos of them bouncing around where it looks like they're on trampolines if you're inclined to be conspiratorial it's all there for you the speech from President Clinton's book we talks about when he was working with a carpenter when the first moon landing steak place in the carpenter told them that you didn't believe anything those TV Fowler said they could show they could fake anything to put it on TV and he said back then I thought that guy was a quack but doing all my years in the White House I start to think maybe you just ahead of his time that's that's Bill Clinton in his book said that so if you can spiritually minded you start looking no confirmation bias you start looking for things to confirm your ID look at these intersecting Shadows man you looking at that picture is fake. That picture is fake it still doesn't mean people didn't go to the Moon

911 was a government conspiracy you're going to be one of the people who spends the most time quote on quote studying it which really makes means reading the same stuff that confirms your belief on the internet most likely or you could be someone who's absolutely obsessed with proving that 911 was not an inside job and you could you can chase that down and look at the conspiracy of confirmation bias that resulted in all these crazy books and documentaries all these different things were people came to these erroneous conclusions who spends the most time looking at pictures of UFOs I don't know why I look so strong ufologists chicks skip to the good morning yeah I would imagine it's it's people that are obsessed and I would imagine that the lot of those people are obsessed they are there entertaining unhealthy ideas that's what I said though a minute ago when we were talking about Architects and Engineers on 911 Assist on my logic people who are trained in that field

3 mm + 2,000 one or two people that are trained in that field me personally as a non architect and non-engineer I have to look at it a little bit differently there's there's nobody more trained and you apology then you apologize to me I am the most trained and in UF ology you don't even know I'm the guy if you have any questions if you need to go to guy I will give those guys ecstasy and strippers and will will cure all the search in the skies Bunch unfuckable white dudes that's what we're dealing with Brian tonight that's the real issue you're right in some ways you're right in some ways to be agree in some ways and and I absolutely agree with you that I've been a hundred percent a rational in the past about certain things and also I get caught up when I get into a discussion with something about like you like Phil play with the moon landings I'll get caught up in trying to be correct or I'll get caught up caught up in trying to counter his moves and treated like you to match you. I mean

I would work out better he was on the phone and I was on the phone once I was in studio once he was in Studio One so we were on the phone once as long as we wanted to have a boss what it what are the things that that I that I put in my in my paragraph about you which I hope to would love to completely retract was a criticism of what you say so often as is and I'm just the guy asking questions shouldn't be asking this question am I saying that I am I saying that right now I mean I have said that I'm just asking questions Joe Rogan questions everything yeah so you're right but when I'm well if you go that's not a good example cuz if you go over that it's me destroying pseudoscience if you go over that show it's like I got attacked by more people to fucking believe in Chemtrails because of that show explaining the actual science behind on it just the thing that I sent you with rose and explain the science behind jet engine which is not made of money I thought you did a wonderful job going

the Roseanne about the well that's all credit to make West from my metabunk he was a software engineer and Brilliant guy software engineer what was the did Tony Hawk Tony Hawk yeah yeah Jimmy John's epic games and you know he sold his share in that and just decided to debunk conspiracies and he's brilliant that you know and you know he breaks it down so eloquently on the show we brought him on the show to sort of establish the science behind contrails and chemtrails asking questions and the validity of saying that it goes a lot toward the the idea of is it is it smart to debate questions of pseudoscience right now what's happening is Bill Nye happened yet already but Bill nye's going to the Creation Museum to debate creationism of pro and con fought in the in the science community

business because many of us myself included think that it does more harm than good because you're suggesting to anyone who might be on the fence you're suggesting to them that there is a debatable question here when you have something that is you know clearly an established fact backed up by all available evidence and something that's crazy and have no possible evidence for it we don't hold scientific debates about that we move forward with our lives and when you go out and you hold a debate when you agree to have a debate you're going to convince anyone who's on the fence so maybe there is a question here that needs to be looked at and in fact I think it's arguable that you do more harm than good and so by the same token

I say that it's really possible when you say hey I'm just a guy asking questions about building 7 or whatever the subject is that you're potentially doing more harm than good by suggesting that there is a questionable subject Roswell let's take for example

well it was just stop with the one you want example you think that potentially addressing a reality reality in the way something looks that that could be dangerous that in some how people can miss true that misconstrue that for being support for a conspiracy theory I think that when you take when you ask questions and you make an argument that says hey shouldn't we ask questions about this which is the answer is usually yes but when it's on a matter of basically settled science I think you're doing more harm than good by suggesting he shouldn't be questioned whether two plus two equals 4 isn't it okay to ask those two plus two equals 5 will you know that there's massive inconsistencies in the studies that were done about 9/11 that a disputed about like the Free Fall speed of an RX-7 and out of a normal but I wouldn't say that there's any inconsistencies in the evidence when we talkin about Technic testable evidence that you can hold in your hand mean by

these things that I normally is a better word things that you don't usually find like buildings falling at Free Fall speed and then saying that is one second less than Free Fall speed all these things fuel that the debate all these things get people excited about it but to deny that these things exist I think it's silly because then you fueled the conspiracy theories even more because you're denying something that seems obvious to the eye the the average person that looks that building says yes that does look like a controlled demolition does that mean it is no it doesn't put the pretend that it doesn't look like that is ridiculous that it falls at Free Fall speed is I'm not sure anyone is denying that it looks like a the part of it you can see in the video it does what it looks exactly like

just guessing you know that's not what I meant that's not what I'm criticizing you for I agree that it looks like a controlled in which that's not the question the question is whether it should be brought up because we haven't resolved yet it's a good example because it's an example that you use as an example of you thinking that if you listen to me just describe what I see with my eyes and it sounds to me like I'm supporting some sort of a conspiracy theory when I'm 100% not okay

it seems like you have topics that are off-limits and that like to discuss something like that even did it to look at the reality of the speed that it fell this even bring it up is off-limits even if you say I don't believe in the conspiracy but isn't it crazy that that building looks like a controlled demolition charge right house is Bill Nye talking about creationism there's there tomorrow so there's really nobody who's on the fence about that you're either a creationist or you're not I mean there's something Blitz look at the numbers the Gallup poll the most recent Gallup poll on the age of the Earth was more than 46% think the Earth is less than 10000 years old I want to know it's shocking we know exactly where comes from first of all how many of those people have been exposed to actual science actual research actual data someone who's really cosmetic like an eel

grass Tyson he could break down the what we know about science what we've done what great work has been shown that we we we can carbon date things we know about the date of stars we can follow the radio waves in the that we can measure in space and prove there was a big bang 14 billion years ago all that stuff is so exciting that if it's done correctly by a guy like Neil Tyson they can be unbelievably cultural culturally valuable but those 46% of people to believe that the Earth is 10000 years old I can almost guarantee that they haven't had that in their life they just haven't been exposed to a charismatic scientist or a documentary that was unbelievably compelling that jive with a Christian ideology so much they can absorb it you know they've been brainwashed they've been fucked over by their own culture over by their Community they been fucked over by these dummies that raise them and taught them the silly idea that so easily just proven that it makes them a joke to anybody that had any sort of formula

location whatsoever and it's almost half the population let me let me point out something that it kind of a surprising similarity between belief in creationism and belief in the Kennedy Kennedy assassination there are like we talked about there are a dozen hundreds but let's say that there is a dozen different Kennedy conspiracies that are mutually exclusive just for sake of argument let's pretend it's a dozen you've got about just as many series of creation sure that are completely incompatible which is nothing existed until 6000 years ago everything poof up here to take what exactly the appearance of age you've got the Earth is actually old but life is is a recent creation you got all the other animals are old and evolution happened in everything except humans which were a special creation event you've got

too much did evolve the way science tells us but then suddenly we were given Souls on the Adam and Eve day or mrs. an asshole each one of these different theories not really dies in their mind is scientific support 4K so exactly like the people who support all these different versions of the Kennedy conspiracy even though all of their theories are mutually

so exclusive completely incompatible they all agree with that they all consider themselves to be on the same page in that they reject the quote on quote official explanation ingenuous arguing because the argument for the Earth being billions of years all the universe being billions of years old is unbelievably unfathomably on overwhelming genius after genius has broken down all the various particles of the fucking Universe in the dark matter in the skies in the fact that inside every black hole May ultimately be another Universe with hundreds of billions of galaxies inside of it with black holes in each one of them the number of people that have worked on provable conclusions about the age of things using carbon dating or what what is the other way radiocarbon dating and what's the new one that they're doing I think is way more ridiculous than tool

the guy who is murdered and know that someone shot him and that it might have been this guy that this other gangster came and shot and killed but we'll never know because he's dead so many other pieces Google EOC could sit here and make exactly the same argument in Reverse so you can't go back to 1963 you know how you going to prove what happened and it shows and ghost years ago and see where were you there and so you see dinosaurs running around a billion years ago that's not that's not compatible because you can take you can take a piece of wood and you can carbon date that piece of what I need to find out what this word is 5000 years old you can do that that's done that's a real thing what you're doing with the Kennedy assassination is yeah you've got some stories and yeah you've got some facts and yeah you've got some circumstances but putting it all together is this very complicated the series of events that took place in order to kill that guy take his body and fly it to Bethesda Maryland and who got in from how did Jack Ruby get in there and who benefited from all the there's a lot of variables and you

exist that don't exist when your examining say like the core of the earth when your examining the birth and death of stars hypernova is all these things that we can absolutely prove are apart of our natural world we live in again your ear talking down to your

you're ignoring the question of what can what constitutes evidence because there are people who will make a compelling speech about why carbon dating is invalid sure maybe the Lord has changed the route that the speed at which elements Decay over over the over the centuries now that's something you can argue with because it's it's what we call a special pleading it's humans we small humans are not able to understand this and that's an argument that can be used to defend just about any pseudoscience or just about any pseudo history so I mean you can apply exactly the same thing

alternate versions of the Kennedy history are always going to be just as valid as alternate versions of the age of the Earth and evolution and it's it's their Maiden valadin they are presented as being valid using evidence that cannot be argued against because it's theoretical

sort of here's a problem with the government the government's been proven time and time again to be full of shit so when you look at official government stories and you say well let's take this as our conclusion and then let's work backward from here and find out what what took place will we know that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone because the government says we know that Jack really was a bad guy and he is very patriotic he was really sad and so that's why he did what he did and Case Closed wrap it up tight when you when you look at all that it doesn't stand up to scrutiny it doesn't it doesn't if you're dealing with a liar if a liar told you this crazy story way over your house man but something asteroid came down not my tire off and I need another tire so I don't wait in line dude I'm so sorry I'm late like that guy is a liar he lies all the time you probably lied about this too well if you're dealing with something like the United States government that's shown itself over and over and over again to be full of shit be very convenient to tell the people what they want the people to think rather than what is actually the truth and then you start sighting instance after instance it's not just

blind accusations but instance after it says no longer do I think that it is it's not likely nor is it logical to assume that the let's go official store which is a douchey term it's very low to turn the official store makes a question but to assume that the store that we have been told in the mainstream media and the news is correct it doesn't make sense why would you assume it's correct you're talking to a liar just have told us that carbon that carbon dating works you know how they come up with a conclusion I'm an idiot but I read about carbon dating when I wasn't trying to figure out why they can figure out the dinosaurs existed 65 million years ago I'm unbelievably terrified and fascinated by asteroid Olympics and it's one of my main of sessions when it comes to like late night freak outs watching the Discovery Channel and you know watching you know just the idea that one day we could get hit by one of these

100 plus thousand near-earth objects that are fucking gigantic Stones flying to the Earth I'm fascinated by that shit so I got pretty deep into the whole idea of carbon dating and the whole body like how they figured it out and I've read a bunch of articles on and I watch documentaries on it it's pretty easy to figure out from an idiot's point of view like how they're doing it like I don't understand the science behind it I can't really replicate it but I listen to them describe it and it clicks with me and it makes sense I mean my argument is that

disagreeing with carbon dating disagreeing with the scientific view of the earth is

very similar to disagreeing with kind of a standard model of history of the JFK assassination As Told by the US government hate to use the term official story is I don't care I've never read tell the OS I've never read the Warren Commission report I've never read the 9/11 commission report but I can tell you what happened to Kennedy and I can tell you what happened to what happened on 9/11 according to what I would call our standard model of History which probably agrees and most respect with the official story the issue with the standard model history those is disseminated by the US government in which people find easy to distrust what's not it's not know when you were watching it on that morning when you had your TV on your watching The Towers fall and you're looking at broadcasters of the microphone they were not being influenced by the government they didn't have an earpiece in with someone from the CIA telling them what to say next you were pretty much watching it

can live through no government filter right but wait a minute but when you're talking about the official story of it it's not the the news being told as the event goes down it's the explanation of why the event took place after the fact that people disagree with they don't know what to disagree is that the towers fell that planes hit them sure they do there's people think the planes were Holograms that means I'll finish it when you sayings all of these different theories and all these people to believe the Earth is hollow the speed of the believe that life is but a dream merrily merrily merrily merrily they're awesome they're all awesome I'll talk to those people are fucking crazy but look people are not so you don't do this people to walk down the street and talk to people that aren't there you know that. That doesn't mean that the government is correct about Kennedy doesn't mean that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone it doesn't mean that there's nothing other than the reason to conclude that a single bullet infect infected all that damage is nothing other than their need to tie

stop the fact they committed to the idea of three bullets that that would be the only thing that would be logical that this guy could get off and nobody thought he could get off for bullets does just like this too crazy 3 maybe he could fuc you get all three bullets in 5 seconds without was a milk Road Carcano rifle because of the episode I did a recreation of the time of the pouch pouch and then it's a long hella long pause until the final shot pouch something like leaving from little less than that but I thought it was 5 but yeah. And Be Giants the space between the last two shots that but the the number of seconds that you're usually told her the space between the last one also something against the conspiracy that I would like to point out that people keep pointing out was at the scope in that rifle was off that was one of the things that people kept saying that the scope and that rifle was a bad scope

there's a someone who's fucked up their scope before you could just put a rifle down hard you drop it and it falls in the scope ounce of the ground that Scopes off so the chain of evidence between Lee Harvey. The idea that they found the scope and it was impossible for them to fight with his gun cuz of scope is off is preposterous because anybody could drop that gun after Oswald left it there and fucked up that scope for the fact that who knows how many days or hours or whatever later they went to check that scope to see if it was cited in that stupid Hunters have to cite their Scopes in after every trip every time you put your stuff in luggage packed in with all this like cushioning and everything to make sure and hard cases you still have to reset your scoping to get to arrange you have to because it's where you want to hit it because they they go off they bounced around and move with telescopes sites on those are very simple yeah so mean. That doesn't mean though that you know that the whole ball of wax the whole government story is is exactly what happened with Jason ghosts were talking about

ship in the sixties and trying to piece it together and say Chase closed I think it's Preposterous I think it's ridiculous I do think it's fascinating and I do think that people can lose their mind and in and chasing it down and investigating it and I certainly did myself back in Pennsylvania when I was working at that fucking club reading that stupid book all day and then going on stage that night and just bombing I mean I had two shows that the first show I just ate a plate a shit in the second show I pull it together and got back but I was depressed no no no no but to really distinctive times with the things that I saw on before I went on stage fuck me up and that was a big one that was probably the first one might even the second one was all the same time was a slow learner but the other one was I went with this guy named JB smooth no JB smooth funny foxy he's hilarious and JB and I was going to college together in New Jersey and JB was

I was really hard to find in JB was he was running late so they had me go on First and I wasn't prepared cuz I was sitting in the there they had a little rec room with the TV on and the TV was showing this documentary on the Malibu fires I was so fucking depressing was the early 90s and he's people lost everything in this guy was crimes of firemen and he was crying and weeping his house was still there but his neighbors have lost their houses and he was just crying and weeping this girl is looking for her dog and they like all right Joe and JB is still late so we're going to do is we're going to put you on and you do your satin and he'll go on after you I was like oh no I went on stage thinking about this guy crying not even for his own loss before his neighbors lost that girl looking for a dog and I just got so sad and I went on stage at 8 shit tidal wave in Japan really messed me up for her for a few days I was I've been to Japan just a few years before and Mandy

seeing seeing all that destruction it and you just know you know watching those Rivers Washington on the streets and everything you know it's full of people and it was I was messed up for days yeah it's horrible so those comedy require me and you know people are paying to see you take them out of this reality and have them Escape into some fun world you know I just I wasn't good at it you know it was only I was only 20 maybe 23 or something at the time I just was clumsy I don't know what the fuck I was doing any idea of like reading this conspiracy book called and freaking out I saw it was bad at perspective putting things up so I listen to this took place in 63 here we are in Dino 1990 why am I thinking about this you know if I didn't have that ability to switch gears some interesting careers that I have the most respect for because you can't not be smart and get away with it obviously never seen Bryan on stage he kills and he's not smart

you've got you you've got to be a great so I'm just joking you've got to be good on your feet I mean I just need regular barely can talk I'll talk to you get worms in his mouth he also has a cheat code he's got the god code they became famous and then you start doing comedy again it's your prop comedy without a prop

well thank you and that's very nice of you to say my friend Joey Diaz says it baddest best he says it's the hardest easiest thing you'll ever do when you get out and get good at it you stay out of the New Year developmental then it's easy button to get to that point it's very hard and that was my my birth or my entering into the world of conspiracies in the fascination with them came from that from that one book a hundred percent no doubt about it that I can trace it back to that one book and then you start questioning the reality of what I've been taught Road you've gone down that that you since turned away from the moon landings Motrat most drastic that I like again I say for you know just as a caveat. I always wish the moon landing was fake and I would be much more happy if it turns out it was a Giant Oaks then if people went to the moon why because I'm a silly bitch and because I like silly things and I would love I think it'd be a great accomplishment for people to

hate that we went to the moon they wouldn't go almost even be to go to the middle school I mean yeah well that's also where do you know I mean a lot of people that argued against it and said yeah science even scientifically that I'd be more impressive the point that the number of people who would be expected to keep the secret Brody went down with the flight was a flight 93 or flight 77 Flight 93 was the one that got shot down over Pennsylvania 3 so I got a friend who does not believe in any of the 9/11 conspiracies except he believes that we did successfully shoot down that plane well I will tell you this without saying anyone's name or speaking any further that I know people that in the military and I asked them is it possible that in a situation where a plane was going to be flowing into the Pentagon that they would have fighter jets shoot it out of sky

you think they'll be possible and they said 100% percent possible they would do it when we do it we had plans on the way they didn't get there in time but legitly I have I have no problem with the fact that they were on the way to get it but the thing is that that's another case where you going to look at the number of people involved because if a missile gets shot a missile getting shot is a big deal because you've got all kinds of accounting that has to happen for that mr. Not only do you have to ground crew and everyone's very expensive and shapes and all those you've got civilian oversight for all the supplies that happen again for a plane to shoot a missile that nobody knows about that's again going to involve you a pyramid of people you know a hundred people at the base maybe at a minimum a thousand people in the civilian oversight contractors it just goes on and on and on if the number of people that would help with that but I can't because of the fact they have black funded projects because

the fact that they develop things in in total complete secrecy in Area 51 that involve billions and billions of dollars that's where the stealth technology came from that's where you know many different Advanced Technologies of come from without any knowledge whatsoever by the American people so to say that it would be hard to hide a missile it would certainly be an issue would certainly be an issue but I don't think that a government that could make a fucking stealth bomber would have a hard time hiding a mess oh well okay but these planes did not come from Area 51 they can't really open bases Trail walk on and off of another day that's true but if you can come up people walk on and off of the area 51 everyday to they just coming by but they just come in on planes and buses from from Vegas but that doesn't necessarily mean that that's that's what happened but it does the idea of saying this could never happen because you would have too many people not really just think about all the shit they have designed that no one knew they had until they have this is a lot of secrecy still in government when they do it right and they're really good at it and it comes to National Security they can keep them

take her for a long time there was nothing nothing that ever happened at Area 51 turned out to really be all that interested. You don't think that that's remarkable these unbelievable Jets you don't think it's Dell Technologies remarkable the fact that they look like UFOs and they can hide from radar God damn here he's hard to impress Area 51 there's a lot of the Aerospace reporting and anyone anyone in that industry knows what goes on at Area 51 because it's basically the it's the national test facility is what it's actually called they simply that's where they're testing the Next Generation planes I wouldn't be surprised to see what they're testing there now because we pretty much have a pretty good idea of what it what it looks like and that's that that was the case in the 1960s was the case in the 1970s you've obviously never seen the interviews

Robert Lazar oh my God as well because you seem so smart then you finally lied about his college education then you might be crazy but he only fooled people in the UFO Community well that sounds like an ad hominem attacks her and it doesn't do very much to support your argument so terrible debating skill you have here Brian Dunning is wrong because of who he is to the end nobody wants UFOs to be real more than me like nobody wants to take for it to be real more than me and I'm I'm silly I'm silly person I'm a comedian you know I don't have any vested interest in keeping the the status quo in standard operational procedure in place I I like it all falling apart I would love it if the UFO flight Flew Over the city and people start shitting their pants and and throw on bed pans out the wind

cuz I would love it I told you it when I first got here to the studio I told you that Bigfoot is something that I believed in until 5 years ago you believe the Patterson-Gimlin footage I always believed that the Patterson-Gimlin footage do I just leave that that looked incredibly good and I still do now the people who say that's the worst fake I've ever seen I think they're being in in disingenuous because I think it's a brilliant face I think it looks great you're hilarious you know the whole history the filming everything right and develop how did it get from A to B and we know that pretty much everything he said about it was a lie and we pretty much have a good picture of the film's history and we know that it was fake we also know that he was arrested for larceny for running a

bad check he was very camera that used to film a stick for first and he had been paid he was on a hunt to make a Bigfoot documentary for God's sake don't bring this up to Bobcat Goldthwait he will get fucking crazy crazy with you we had on my show I had here's the here's the video Let's watch the video real quick this week show how silly you are that you think this looks real

get me the stabilized version because this one's horrible cuz this is how it was first released was first released in this sort of like weird shaky shaky version this is actually probably stabilized could mean I think I look so stupid in French

how can you say it looks fake because it's so bad quality exactly if there was anything in there that gave it away like a zipper it wouldn't be visible because of the Lo Green it's the way he walks He Walks Like a person I mean it doesn't mean that it's not a big giant person but he walks like a person and I don't think it when you watch an elephant walk there's there's a reality to the weight they carry around and that thing is not walking with the reality of the weight of an 800-pound 1000 pound animal that thing is walking maybe he's like maybe 5-6 they decided they were going to measure off all the different trees in that area and figure out how tall it was me I didn't say I speak. It looked like he was over 6 feet tall I said it looked like a real animal to me it doesn't to me it looks like a guy in a monkey suit it looks stupid thing where I have had where I buy susceptible to I wanted Bigfoot to be real in finding yourself that you were indeed a silly bitch now what you doing is your bouncing the other way and going

cuz I'm sorry excuse me at the time and now you're you're bouncing completely the other way and hardcore skeptic skeptic by by not just by choice but by default instantly automatically lean towards the skeptic I think we should be a very objective for sure and I think it would be very confusing if you're not you know if you do go Brett look around for conspiracies the the better alternative is most likely to be skeptical by default but I also think that you you miss a lot of shit like okay here's a perfect example I use this one all the time unfortunately for people listen to podcast do you believe that 9/11 happened do you believe the planes flew into buildings do you believe that happened yes can you believe in conspiracies

yes yes yeah they conspired to do that and they pulled it off much people hijacked playing simultaneously in different spots in the country they got control the plans for those planes into buildings cause all the buildings collapsed thousands people died it was a conspiracy it was a successfully executed conspiracy only one of many that we know of all throughout history so if you automatically take the skeptic point of view you miss out on the possibility of exposing something that is a true conspiracy because they do exist. When you say the skeptic point of view what do you mean I would say the null hypothesis the null hypothesis is that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone the null hypothesis is that probably nothing remarkable happened

why would you say that remarkable things happen all the time though why would why would that be a default I want to hear what I want I mean in that case is for example of the shooting take the guy who shot all the people in the movie theater the null hypothesis is that a guy shot all the movie people in the movie theater as was reported by everyone who was there when the null hypothesis in the Kennedy situation would be that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone as discovered by the cops who chased him down and tackled him and arrested him in the movie theater the null hypothesis for 911 would be that what happened generally as well as we saw it on television and was reported by the people were there is what happened that would be the null hypothesis and anything remarkable would be something that goes against what appears to have happened on that day

so I would say that they null hypothesis is going to generally be right most the time until we've got some remarkable evidence to prove it wrong how do you factor in contradictory evidence from repeated Google online new sources like like for example like let's see the NSA perfect example before it was revealed by Edward Snowden at the NSA was indeed spying all the Native Americans and detailing records of your phone calls yet who were surprised by that very few people wear but the people that were had argued against Italy Emily and they are there it said there's no way they would be such a huge conspiracy you have to hide that from so many people so many people to be in the know there's no way that that could be possibly true I heard that I I witnessed Alex Jones having that discussion with a purse where Alex Jones who predicted the shit a long time ago almost a decade before it actually happened I believe it was 2003 or for Alex Jones was saying if

detailed records of every phone call you make everything you do every email you send he was on it way before and I thought it was crazy nutty conspiracy talk me while he was right they really were they really really figured out how to do it they develop this technology they created this storage facility that they're in the middle of building right now and Utah that's going to be this massive Warehouse of data and information that's a real conspiracy to turn out to be true I don't think that there was I can't say that Alex G I don't give him credit for predicting there's nothing there's nothing that Snowden revealed that I don't think was pretty much generally suspected anyway we know that cell phone companies I've always had all your cell phone records Bryant there for the government has though that's not surprising to me well they could access that really that's funny because I thought it was a pretty big Revelation cause for alarm a lot of people are up in arms about it it was a pretty big deal I will I don't think you could download it always been up in arms about it

transmission people saying it yourself privacy the cell phone company shouldn't have any way to track my calls or more to do but they can and they own their cell phone company so they can do whatever the heck they want and as long as those records exist it's pretty naive to believe that nobody has access to them that is not the issue the issue is that they're doing it for every single American all the time they consoling following you and constantly watching your emails and costly that it's not a matter of looking at suspicious suspicious people or people have been accused of crimes it's a matter of people that are just law abiding citizens or taxpayers and doing nothing wrong but yet they're being almost like held because they're checking all the information like this thing that they hold over your head in the idea that this could be used to intimidate political opponents so this could be used to intimidate business rivals you know that's that was a huge conspiracy and I think the to deny that that was pretty shocking to the American people when he found out that they not only did indeed have this power and capability but they had been utilized

and for a long time some things only shocking if you didn't have enough information to be aware that that was going on and I mean in from the Silicon Valley background and

the formation of all the big the big search engines and things like that I haven't worked at enormous ridiculously huge data centers and everything and having a general idea of how the technology works I mean it's it's it's to me it's nothing nothing in that is surprising that that that data is being collected on that larger scale or that anyone would have access to it nothing nothing I've heard coming from Snowden surprised me and anyway and wouldn't surprise most of the people from a similar background as me I think I think for a lot of people's quite shocking I'm sure it was but but I think if you if you know anything about the way that technology Works in about that the whole date of storage and collection industry it going to the null hypothesis has got to be that hey anyone who wants access to it has access wasn't the null hypothesis when Obama gave that speech and said that we're not doing it and this is just metadata and when didn't delete people believe that wasn't that essentially what are

how was your party in the news and everyone saying listen this is Much Ado About Nothing this is just meditated don't worry about it turned out that it wasn't the case at all well the null hypothesis maybe maybe presidential press releases are not always exactly accurate to the Kennedy assassination and how it mean The Nutters hear this and they going to apply at sorry for calling another smokes but the 9/11 truthers how about that there is the apply that to 911 truth they say this is your contradicting yourself

the whole idea that what they're saying is

is not the null hypothesis or what do you mean what you said that the government tends to be a liar when it comes press conferences official story is war the official story is is a lie because it's the official story because it's coming from the government compared to the null hypothesis being that the government always lies about everything or I frequently is not completely true or false when I wasn't of null hypothesis that the story that's being produced in the media is the actual store that whatever the the conclusions that mainstream is accepted about Osama Bin Laden and these hijackers in Saudi Arabia and all these different things that factor into the events of 9-11 are in fact exactly how it went down when you in fact just said that when it comes to like the NSA and then the Obama Administration not being incorrect or being truthful about metadata and what was being collected that well did the United States government spent a lot of a tender lie they tend to lie if they tend to lie why would you assume that there are other explanations for

different things that have taken place for true at all that wouldn't be the that's my point that's the point yes but but also when you say the official story when you're talking about what the government says that's not necessarily the source of information that people are relying on nobody has read the 9/11 report nobody has read the Warren Commission report you and I we don't even know what the government's position is on this week we assume we do we assume that it's whatever's in those reports is what people generally believe about it but that's not our source of information we didn't go to the government for information I don't think I've ever had a question about 9/11 that I've gone in Google the government website to find out what the what what should have happened what I mean man to believe there are government website to spell out history is there a government website history I don't think that exist

conflate the government's version of events with that's why I like to use the term the standard model the standard model is what you know probably most historians whatever the whatever the field is the scientist or whatever the historians are for the historical what what most lawyers think if it's a legal question. I would call it the standard model I would not use the term the official story because that suggest government involvement which is not not an authoritative Source the government quote on quote is not an authoritative Source on anything it's not where people get their 911 information we get that from basically from historians you know from Modern History it's not the official Source on how many neutrons are in a boron atom in a that's we get that from the standard model of science

so I don't think it's too much of a I don't think it's it's hypocritical for me to say that boy I'm twisting myself into knots here I don't think it's hypocritical for me to say that when Obama says something that we shouldn't accept as the truth that that conflicts with the government's official position on 9/11 or snowed in or what the end of the Kennedy assassination

I think what I'm saying makes sense well the issue with that is of course the news outlets especially the Kennedy assassination got all the information from the government they got all the reports from spokespersons that were assigned this position to give this press conference and explain what the details were the president was found Bethesda Maryland what do you think I got his talking points as he winging it you know they're not winging it those guys were told what to say and when to say it and they were put on television because it was an easily controlled thing back then what they're really important reforms on the site sure what do they know they know they know the president was dead and then they took the president's body way everything else is information from the government well I mean what does that mean where they handed the press release that says White House at the top and Cedric told report this well depends where were they getting their information it depends I mean this many many many many outlets sisters there's different but you know doctors talked about it there's different people who were on the news there's who is the guy who is explained it on television for the first time that classic speech that the president has been shot

oh God damn it who was it that famous I don't believe I believe it was before his time I want to say it doesn't matter what I say it's a point the point is that where they getting that information I'm at circumstance see how the government fits in that Loop will the government had Kennedy's body and they release the Press statement that's fact when they tell people that the president's been shot the president's dead this is what's going on and you know when the the news outlets whether it's local or national ABC NBC whatever it is they they need to get the information from the official Source the official Source would be someone who's in the government has press conference that explains the events as they took place

okay so what kind of spinning around in circles here that might be annoying for people tonight I think we agree on more than we disagree on and I think that what I'm trying to say is that there's weirdness to the world and that to automatically take the skeptical position is often times just as silly as automatically taking the conspiratorial position. What do you mean by the skeptical position what do you mean when you say front from from from you that I'm I'm I'm getting the message that you think I tend to take a silly position no no no skeptical that it is silly to take this I don't want to be fooled position just as foolish as it is sometimes to take this double double just as silly as it is to automatically need York take the conspiratorial position when we know for a fact that certain conspiracies have not just been planned out but have been executed weather is the Gulf of Tonkin that let us into Vietnam what its operation Northwoods which was a planned attack

an American civilians in American Military that was signed by The Joint Chiefs of Staff they were going to make a jetliner explode they were going to arm Cuban Friendly's and have them attack one ton of obey all this to blame on the Cubans so that we could go to war with Cuba when you know that that kind information exists and was real and is provable and it's in the Freedom of Information Act releases when you know about all that that has to be factored into the did the spectrum of possibilities can't use the fact that there have been real conspiracies in history you can't use that to defend conspiracy theory because conspiracy theories as defined by the way you and I are discussing them our future predictions the conspiracy theory about 9/11 having been an inside job for example predicts that one day it will be discovered that the government orchestrated 9/11 it's a pizza prediction of evidence that will some Dave exist in the future and future predictions really

I've never come true I I I say that there I've said this imprint many times that there are no conspiracy theories that have ever come true

The Conspiracy Theory being something that has existed as a theory among conspiracy theorist unknown to the general public unknown to I'll just read that right away what about the LSD experiments they did on to the that was that did not exist as a conspiracy theory until it was discovered did it exist it would just sit in my high school with people talked about them doing LSD experiments on soldiers it was an urban legend it was a myth that they gave soldiers LSD and they they know they drug people to find out what the answer would do to them they're out of their brain out with your other stories you hear about it from people that were in the military or talk about MK Ultra I'm not talking about MK Ultra I'm talking about operation midnight climax where the CIA drugged up people that were in brothels in New York and San Francisco so that they can study the effects of LSD on innocent civilians I'm talking about your we talking about so I think that was part of MK Ultra a lot of programs related in Paola operation midnight 1950s

that's pretty early well it was also the various things that they did the soldiers many of them documented to this day they were all Legends at one point in time those world of the Mind Control experiments that they did to Timothy his name the Unabomber part of the the Harvard LSD studies Ted Kaczynski they fucking does take Kyle with acid do they got to know that Nancy was it was a documentary on it was called the net and it was all about tracing back there the root of his Insanity to these these LSD experiments that he may very well have signed up for something that Friday is fucking brain ask I'd like to ask your listeners kind of whom you have how many I don't know

I'd like to ask for all of all of Joe's listeners out there if you have an example of a conspiracy theory that existed as a theory among conspiracy theorist before it became generally known by law enforcement media General whatever please let me know email me Brian at skeptoid dot-coms because I still maintain that there are none and I would love to be proven wrong about this is what the what Alex Jones said is not a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true of the government is spying on your emails and listening to all your phone calls only the conspiracy theorists that was something that I meant that's surprising I didn't surprise you because you were in the name the people who are in that industry that doesn't surprise someone like me it was very surprising and four people that were listening to the official government story it was absolutely contradicting that and the first the first time you learn

is not objective sir I put cancer viruses into other vaccine ATM machines will someday use facial recognition technology yeah but those are silly that's just prognosticating projecting but I must be something in the US government in Monsanto are teaming up against opponents of genetically modified food conspiracy theory it's not no kind of is that the u.s. government in Monsanto are teaming up to make money out pro wrestling is fake well that's not real shut the fuk up dude dude don't break my neck break my world in half scientist all over the world are creating extremely bizarre human-animal hybrids okay is this true not long ago Chinese scientist embedded jeans for human milk proteins into a mouse is Gino man of sins created herds of human eyes milk-producing. Well that's just ignorance they don't understand what that was going on there they did not making human hybrids they're just utilizing jeans for certain specific actions

using a cell phone cause cancer in proven unless you talk to Cheryl Crow velcro think she got a brain tumor from listen to the cell phone all the time fluoride is harmful for your teeth okay is that true that Department of Health and Human Services Environmental Protection Agency are proposing the change because of an increase in fluorosis a condition that causes spotting and streaking of children's teeth these are not conspiracy theories promotions of anti-science this is stupid prescription drugs kill large numbers of Americans with the fucking everything kills people. But if somebody if someone out there does have a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true please email me Brian at skeptoid. Com I wouldn't I would love to be able to report on it one of those conspiracy theories that turned out to be true and I always answered that email with the same thing as a great give me a suggestion I've been looking for him they confuse in confidence with conspiracy as well like here's won the Federer

reserves of Perpetual Date machine that is designed to create inflation then it goes on to the show that u.s. national debt is got more than 5,000 times larger than the value of the US dollar has fallen by more than 96% I think that's more of an example of greed and in confidence in that just fucking fools running things and it is a massive conspiracy to diminish the wealth of the United States just people stealing from the system that's all it is they put cancer viruses in vaccines did you know this price I know that they've got all kinds of different things in vaccines for different purposes in a lot of times what the things that people report like there are aborted fetal tissue in vaccines that's not completely untrue there are certain certain certain lines I can only be grown in human tissue and so there's two particular lines of fetal tissue that existed for but I think there were 9:40 or so years old now these two particular lines and we grow the cultures in those in those tissues of human tissue and then

the cultures are removed from the tissue once in awhile a spare cell or something we'll get stuck in and be included with the vaccine but it's not harmful in anyway and it's kind of missed represents the way happens to say that we include human fetal tissue in vaccines Bryan someone sent me one that's legit the Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened that was a conspiracy theory long before was ever proven true

shrew

I haven't done an episode on that that's what that's been a frequent request I'll put that I'll put that bump that to the top of my list that's a real one but I have a feeling that you going to somehow or another she ate it so that everything's going to be okay you going to dance around it and make it seem like this in its own Gulf of Tonkin was known only to conspiracy theorist before law enforcement / medium / whoever got a hold of it well that is what happened about the fact that it happened at all that they did they actually did fake this incident in a ladder that is established historical fact now but that's that's saying that a conspiracy happened sure but that's not the same thing as a conspiracy theory happened to her pool or shouting about it on the street corners before it was discovered by the general public or by law enforcement sure that that was something that people have talked about I don't know it mean obviously I'm too young to know but the Gulf of Tonkin conspiracy but I'm looking for conspiracy theorists

who you know from there New York apartment basements or wherever they were figured out these things I can't say but more with the other should have known about them found out about him what about Watergate well it's not really Conspiracy Theory what that is it's just standard operation procedure months Crooks and then one guy got busted there was nobody knew that was Alex Jones was not on his Radio Show screaming about what happened about Watergate before he was a baby but when I first met him I believe he was 28 is actually younger than me but I'm both ends but yeah I see if I can look if you your whole day was doing glue and new world order should be shipping your pants too I don't know if we got anywhere with any of this talk but we still have plenty of time. So let's let's

discontinued I think I could shed light on faulty thinking that I have had myself please and I think I think that confirmation by us and that you can go online and find French sites and all these different things that support your ideas and then not objectively look at it like completely objectively we all get attached we got our egos attach two statements and we get our egos attach two positions that was taken and I think that those those those Egos and those statements and positions that we've taken off and X going to be the enemy of objectivity and I agree with you that there are most most things but when you're looking at information online what you should do is look at all the different arguments pro and con and then look where the the intelligences liquid look for the smart people are leaning lookworthy educated people are leaving look where the experts are leaning and try to figure it out and also know that no matter what there is in this world if you haven't been there and you know

you're reading someone's take on it there's going to be a bunch of different opposing opinions that make no fucking sense is going to be some that are close is going to be the full range from you from fucking wackadoodle. The planes were Holograms there was explosions that were look at this is not a civilian plane you know they did they took the people to the Moon wackadoodle shit on every subject everything that exists and some of it you have to wonder you know we know that there's techniques and tactics of disinformation well they'll take a bunch of things that are absolutely true then attachment to one thing it's blatantly ridiculous and that one thing sort of diminishes all the other things one thing that I always tell people and I always get criticized for it is if you have a question on any given matter go to The Experts

in that in that subject if you want to know you know how old the Earth is go to the people who actually work in that field you're not always going to be right but you're going to be right far more often than you're wrong so no matter what the question is what the pseudoscience says for example you no bulshit cancer remedies if you want to know whether this works go to

go to the experts in cancer go to the American Cancer Society etcetera etcetera you won't always be right but you'll be right far more often than your wrong we have a real problem with an art show with Peter duesberg Peter duesberg is a professor of biology the University of california-berkeley esteemed scholar who also believes that HIV doesn't cause AIDS and we had him on the podcast and it was unbelievably baffling and my statement was it's very frustrating when you too dumb to know who stupid but it was listening to him and listening to the absolute outrage of all the actual scientist that work in the field of HIV research and and how angry people were about it and unfortunately I couldn't get anybody to debate him and I think that much like people criticizing Bill Nye of visiting the Creation Museum almost like people don't want to debate Holocaust deniers they did not want to debate this guy because somehow another gives his ideas credence

for anyone with any credibility to spend time on that you're just you're communicating to the general public that there's a question here that needs to be looked at and that's that's not right it's baffling though it's really confusing when you have this guy is just incredibly intelligent man is very well respected and educated and you know it's done some amazing work on cancer research as well Steven since then so it's it's it's baffling let me ask you something else I want to come to call you out a little bit on something else is call you at some new shit that people are doing the last 10 years no sent before that you know nobody ever likes to call out music series Believe there when calling out you had a guy on your show a couple of weeks ago something rather Gordon Mark Mark Gordon

ioi listen that episode I turned it off in a rage at 9 minutes cuz I couldn't take anymore okay he came on and I believe you said you had them on several times before not right now he's my friend came on and he starts promoting his Miracle supplement that you take and you can drink as much alcohol as you want and not get drunk that you can take glutathione you might like to differ that was the that was a central thrust of the first 9 Minutes of episode I listen to correct what I want to discuss with you is something you said to him you said you said that sounds too good to be true I wish I knew enough to call you out on your bullshit right

you should have you should have known enough to call him out on your bullshittin though you're going to bring that up if you're going too well I wasn't like this the topic of conversation like when it when I have some on the show the idea of having people on the show it's just a conversation just with you there's no we didn't discuss much we said was just have fun let's just talk the same thing with Mark me Mark is a friend of mine and he's an interesting guy and he can ramble on forever and relay all sorts of information is also an expert in traumatic brain injury news help a lot of soldiers helped a lot of athletes have a lot of football players mixed martial arts Fighters boxers he's he's helped a lot of people understand the delicate balance of the of the human mind here's the thing is he he went on it came on your show and fold people that Hears A supplement they can take and drink all they want and not get drunk that gets people killed I said that I know he's not right what happens when you take glutathione if you're drunk does that affect the body is a lot more complicated than that it's a great example that I like to give of this is the idea of oxidation and antioxidants

oxidation causes aging that causes bad thing so take an antioxidant and that sounds really simple but it's far more complex in that and in fact it's so complicated that statement doesn't even mean anything it's one of those things that so wrong it's not even wrong as the saying goes you can't just take something that's produced in your liver and counter effect counteract the effects of drinking alcohol there is no direct line from anything you eat to any part of your body if you take if you're working out if you're trying to get buff and you take a protein supplement you thinking hey protein coming and that's going to go to my muscles and help him get strong that's something that is

incredibly wrong because it is but it sounds so simplistically true it's not correct that's not the way the Body Works that's not the way the digestion system works you cannot take something orally and have it go as a direct line to Any Given part of your body that's not the way our digestive system and our blood works and when you say that there's a supplement that can prevent you from getting drunk your I'm sorry you or you're against all reasonably establish science and you're trying to help your trying to make a buck off of people potentially getting killed and I had a huge problem with that to the point I had to turn the show off I was just getting mad driving in my car and I think that someone with a huge audience as you have I think you have more of a responsibility to make sure the people like that are called out on it if you can if you don't if he surprises you with it then say okay then I've got to get someone on next week I got to go and get you know Steven Novella or someone like that

someone who is the promoter science based medicine to counteract that because I think you could have left some of your listeners with the impression that they they can now buy something and drink all they want and then drive home safely okay I am I'm looking online and immediately I find articles that discuss bluetooth ion and its its role vital role in alcohol detoxification in the liver at Barnes the toxin a slide which sital dehy I don't know whatever this aldehyde fast thank you which is a byproduct a product of alcohol is 10 to 30 times more toxic than the alcohol South glutathione then transfer mom's at it again at the what acetaldehyde will acetone aldehyde into compounds that can be excreted alcohol there for deplete our store of glutathione when depleted by excessive alcohol consumption glutathione becomes unavailable for normal and natural antioxidant effects leading to a host of health problems and this is articles actually saying that you should take Lewis

when you drink what you're talking about is reducing the effects of a hangover Getting Over The Hangover quickly it does not underscore does not prevent you from getting drunk or in any way mitigate the the alcohol that to the also it doesn't diminish it or Shrink it like as if he said he does that's believe what one of the statements where is that when you were drunk you could take the stuff and it would it would bring you back to Baseline rather quickly you can reduce the effects of The Hangover but you cannot prevent yourself from getting drunk by this do you know this of for a fact I've never tried his product I mean Sundays product was available pretty much everywhere you go by and health food stores you bought online I have never tried anyone's product that was intended as a miracle drunk cure but I mean it would make sense though that if alcohol and alcohol consumption in the Deep the reaction has the body is a chemical reaction that there could be possibly something that could counterbalance it or swing it in one way or another just like many other chemical reactions and symbiotic reaction so we have two things inside them

now when you read something about this it seems like what year your dispute is that he said that it could diminish the effects of alcohol like while you're drunk and you're saying that's not true it just helps with the hangover hangover it's still really potent and pretty interesting I would like to do a test on it I would like to see two peoples blood alcohol levels measured I think if you don't do that test yet here you fucking saying something kind of irresponsible which he did I don't know if that test has been done though do you

I have not search the literature for what if it has been done and he's right then that would have that would have been all over the literature what is someone who feels follows the literature very closely I can tell you what it it has not been all over the literature that you can now drink and not get drunk I mean maybe he was exaggerating I think he was exaggerating because he was selling a product thought that's what it was because he doesn't have a story doesn't have anything he's not when you say selling a product where is he selling out of he doesn't have a store I don't remember that but this was the 9 Minutes of his episode he was talking about what he sells if I'm wrong about that then I'm damn wrong about it and then I'm surprised

this is another thing is that this whole thing that's talking about saving you from being too drunk to taking glutathione before you drink why are you saying it Journal there's there's like this it's a long look it's impossible to have a conversation and Google things at the same screen but it's also one there's a scientific article on Reddit about large amounts of blue Scion I have the potential to sober people up in a very short time the word researching a chemical drug this is listen man this not that he's not the only one is talking about this this is being discussed in many different forms I don't know if he's right or wrong but I don't think you do either I would like to have him on with someone who disputes it and find out but that's I would recommend he's a very smart guy and he wasn't saying that many outlandish things where I have to pull them down like the towers were destroyed by Tesla technology that's not the same doctor he's a pretty reasonable guy he's a little bit out there

wacky but there's a guy out there on out there on

it's good thing you say is out there on our not have to listen to go over I like the guy a lot I am very biased when it comes to him he's a fun guy he's very very smart but I'm looking at more than one thing it's showing that you could Advance your sobriety if you could sober up quicker by taking bluetooth ion I don't know if they're right or he's right or you're right but I don't know I don't know that you should be saying that if you're not a doctor but if it turns out that is true I'm not a doctor but I'm I'm a science writer and I I do Google Music follow this stuff I've written on Google oh probably 3-4 months ago hangover what exactly is a cause of a hangover what's what's the nature of the toxicity he could use that information which hook us up when it mean it's a really complicated subject me a suppressant the dehydration is a lot of factors right yeah and it basically comes down to yeah that it's a depletion of glutathione and your body can't keep up with it

can't right now it's not as simple as that. That's the thing is it's easy to sell products by giving it over simplified description I'm telling you though you hear your opinion on this guy doesn't have a store like you're saying selling products he's not he's not selling anything okay he was talking about a product that's available to talk to me about even before the podcast that he takes it I know Dave asprey from bulletproof exec he takes a glutathione but he never brought up anything about it doing anything for alcohol with that since listeners got the impression that here's something that they can take and drink all they want and not get drunk is potentially lethal advice who else got that information who me I don't know if it's right either me and the listeners got fed some information that we don't know what's right I don't have any obligation other than to talk to people my obligation is to ask questions if I'm curious but in Broad

cutest things I make the the very clear distinction that I'm not an expert I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about when I'm talking about things like health and medicine and but fascinating so if I'm talking to someone in there an expert and they bring up something that I didn't prepare for I'm going to ask him questions about it and you know I will say I wish I knew if you're full of shit but that's about as good as I could do episode 5 years ago about celebrities who promote harmful pseudoscience is because when you have a large audience I believe you do have an obligation to not give harmful information but I'm not giving it I don't think for a minute that you've ever knowingly giving any harmful information I'm not accusing you of anything at all okay but if it has been given by one of your guests and you are in the position of having to say that sounds too good to be true I wish I was I wish I knew enough to call you out on your bolshit it seems to me like a reasonable step to follow that up with would have been

to find out with

get get somebody on who can who can who can address the other side of that question perhaps I could turn this around on you and say it would be so easy for you to research all those different things on that list that you accuse me of many of them which are not true at all and never have been true but yet you printed them so why did you do that if you're a man of science what information would you possibly have had because I was using the internet in 2008 I'd like to look at every every every probably 3-4 months or so I do an episode that is nothing but Corrections it's Corrections of things I've been wrong about in the past I think that's a great plan I think it's great that I do that I want to continue doing it I don't need more things to be wrong about so I can produce those episodes of profit but will you wrote is very specific and what I want and what I came here today to do was to find out which of those are wrong and so that I will correct them

yeah but even this one thing you just said I had to he wasn't selling it but you got that wrong but you're saying that you was selling so strong show I was listening to this shit just got it wrong you're saying it's true it out to the world that this guy sells a product he doesn't you're doing the exact same thing that you're blaming Joe for

no not you're saying this guy sell something when he doesn't yeah you said he's finishing his product information is being given that could potentially kill people right but you're saying that he's more important formation as a medical expert which he is under the guise of selling a product which is aronia suck it but I've also said that I don't know whether it's his store someone else's store but it's a product that he's talking about that's the Salient Point whether it's his store someone else's store doesn't really make it look a difference compare the fact that it's supposedly he doesn't believe in it or if he believes in a he's wrong what he saying is that he uses it he doesn't sell it and you're saying that he's saying that because he sells it that was very specific you you're taking this very cynical approach to why he's disseminate this information right now if I said that I was wrong on the sweetie I apologize that's dumb people that can't realize that they're drunk they're taking a pill and they're going to go.

of course you don't know me and he's a fucking smart guy I know for fact that guy has helped a lot of people with traumatic brain injury that's a different subject. But he's a doctor he's a legit scientist in the doctor me he's a really brilliant guy so when he talks to me about the the issues with the pituitary gland and impacts and his expertise on the human mind that relates to me that he has a very vast understanding of the human body itself when he tells me something like this and then I start reading that there's more than one different article that sort of confirms what he saying I don't know if you're right you might have gone harsh on my friend dr. Gordon for no reason what is right I think I think it's a very good reason if if he's giving if he's giving advice that's potentially killing me I think that's a very good reason to err on the side of if you're so Johnson formation should be should be checked that's true but if you're so dumb that you're just just pound and alcohol and trusting the glutathione was going to do it it's going to kill you that's a Darwin Award winner

Houston Toyota Scion to fucking know he's not saying drink all you want and you're going to be fine when he never said that he never said there's no risk involved what are you saying is it going to help you get sober quick I don't know if he's right but I don't think you do either that's not what I heard what did what did you hear I heard him say you can drink and not get drunk on the internet see if he could pull it up so you can call if there's a very small sample that we could find it I think we're kind of splitting hairs here I could see why you would be upset and I could see why you would think that I have the responsibility to call someone out I would have to be the expert on a million different things then I would have to have people on and have people counteract them and have people go back and forth and debates and that's all well and good in the real world if you can organize those debates and if you can get those people together but for the most part I'm lucky to get someone to sit down once I'm lucky to get someone who can fit into a times that I have and have them on the show and I just want to have a conversation

I didn't have any idea that guy was going to bring up through the Scion in fact we wanted to highlight his work on drag brain injury because there's a big issue with mixed martial arts these days and the big engine issue is this to fold one traumatic brain injury and to the depletion of testosterone because of traumatic brain injury it's been shown in people that have come back from war and suffered head injuries has been shown from boxers and people that have sustained long-term even sub-concussive impacts of the had that the pituitary gland gets fucked up and he's trying to sort of a spread this information and keep fighters from taking testosterone to counteract that and then competing to and continuing to compete continuing to damage the brain and it's an issue in mixed martial arts it's one of the reasons why I had them on because he's he's a brilliant guy and he is very troubled by this idea that we're going to put a bandaid on traumatic brain injury by giving these guys testosterone use exemption

he thinks it's wrong he thinks if your body is producing less testosterone because of impact you shouldn't give it testosterone and continue receiving impacts that was the whole premise Rim coming on the show in the first place so for me I felt like I he's the smartest person I know in regards to this this particular subject so I felt was it kind of important to discuss it with them I have no idea is glutathione she was here after you drink can you take this what is this what is it helps your liver when you drink alcohol will it helps you with just about anything that the liver is responsible for digesting or metabolizing as you metabolize certain drugs chemicals and so forth the liver uses up its ability to continue the process so it spills over into the blood that's how you get you know drunk because your liver can only deal with this

Mount so if you replenish or replace the glutathione in the liver you get incredible benefits of it not only does it help with metabolism but it's an incredible antioxidant for the brain and for the eyes and for the heart what is it made out of its three amino acids that are together it's in our body but we don't have enough of it to really generate the metabolism that we need it for drinking and where do they get that where they get glutathione cuz I know Dave asprey is really into that stuff to me is a version of it's manufacturing they make it what is it that they put together and the products that we interact with our Rob it's a delivery technology where do you wrap the vitamins or you wrap the supplement in a was called a liposome which is like a cell wall from lecithin it's from soy and it protects whatever it is that you're ingesting cuz lot of the things that you take like I think I shared with you if you take a thousand milligrams of Vitamin C by mouth you only have joy

19% the rest of it's destroyed by the acid that's in the stomach but if you wrap it in this protection called the life is so you'll be able to absorb 93% so taking something like glue to find which normally when you take it in and its natural form it's destroyed most of it is destroyed and then absorb then remanufactured in the blood but if you wrap it in this protective outer coating a liposome you can enjoy it more readily Effexor unbelievably positive for instance gentleman who went out drinking 3 highballs and 5 shots of tequila went home and subsequently was very dizzy nauseous he forgot that I gave him a sample of this glutathione in the East used for Puffs under the tongue held it for 30 seconds and then 30 minutes later clear Isabel woke up the next day when I party you can come get drunk what

that sounds like nonsense it isn't nice I wish I was smart enough to call you on your bullshit like I said that was about where I got mad and it was right in I don't buy the he says he couldn't get drunk the next day that's very anecdotal though and what he was saying was just hard science is not going to go and tell people anecdotes like you can take this product and not get drunk I agree and maybe he was nervous being on the podcast you probably should have said it knowing than a million people plus going to listen to it however what he said was all hard science

what he said was led me to believe that it was his product at least but obviously here we watch again it wasn't it wasn't so I gave him the supplement Ace as usual delivery thing that we're working on so let me tell you something about this guy he's a very generous guy and he gives people vitamins all the time he's like here try this out this is I've been taking this is an incredible amino acids Bubba Bubba grape seed and he's he's just a few things out to people he said it has all of these amazing effects in your heart your brain your eyes antioxidants and he's using language like extraordinary and amazing and in my experience in my experience dealing with many quacks of many different duck species if it looks like Wax like when it's usually a quack and he was using very Quack Like language and making very Quack Like point I don't know what is hyperbole but what he saying is essentially

science about the liposomal the D the digestion of nutrients using the liposomal method as opposed to just normally being broken down by stomach acids all the things he's saying it's not that ridiculous really take something if you if you take some kind of an enzyme or something in your mouth your saliva is going to start breaking it down into the constituent amino acids right away and you're right it's what he said was right it's not going to get used as glutathione in your body those amino acids going to go their separate ways and become used for whatever else your body actually is looking for at the time I don't know about his particular delivery method he's talking about but when he says it's not his guarantee it's not making this stuff but when he says you can take a thousand milligrams of Vitamin C in your body's going to absorb 93% of it that's in my experience medically nonsensical your body doesn't need that much will have your body doesn't understand that 93% of 1 that would have been like with a c you talking about

do it but if it's a small amount he saying that your body absorbs 93% of vitamin C is not saying that you need a thousand milligrams in your body absorbs 93% but he saying that if you deliver it in a liposomal formu get a 93% bioavailability he's not giving a specific number that you should take he was saying that if you take Vitamin C most of it gets destroyed unless you use it liposomal it which I think is correct but your body doesn't have any use for 93% of 1000 mg of he didn't say that he didn't say you need a thousand mg and then 93% of it is absorbed what he said is if you take it liposomal e it's a higher rate of Viola Veil ability and it's up to 93% you didn't say you have to take a thousand mg but it's better to have a dosage she was trying to say that it's better to have liposomal vitamin C because it's mobile available that's all hard time I was a better if it's going to give you more than you can use how is it better now you're adding that he didn't say that you have to have a thousand mg what he said is it if you take it nineteen percent

going to get absorb you take it to the traditional method if you take it liposomal e then you get 93% absorption he didn't give you a dose of like I'm just I'm just saying it looks and quacks like a dozen generous what you saying is disingenuous cuz that's not what he saying what it what he was saying there was that the bioavailability of liposomal nutrients is better and it's true you're saying that he sang a thousand mg in Europe point of contention as you don't need a thousand milligram he never said you need a thousand mg of liposomal vitamin C all he said was that when you take Vitamin C liposomal in your body absorbs it better weather said what it's really 93% okay yeah it is look at this fuck they're saying on live and Labs liposomal science single bioavailability vial of bioavailability of 98% is another one that says over 90% so what he saying is true what he saying is fact and your your shit

because you don't want him to be right about what I think you're correct about is this this ideas anecdotal story of a guy you know taking the stuff feeling better 30 minutes later and then the next day couldn't get drunk that sounds like bullshit to me too but all the other stuff that he said that's all science I'm shiting on anyone who is selling snake oil they should come on man that buying supplements in and things that you don't need is a good way to spend your money the minute someone likes to drink isn't a smart thing to take glutathione after you drink to it to shorten your hangover is it effective

I would have to look at the research before I would tell you that you said it you said it before you said that it get AIDS in reducing hangover so why wouldn't you take that you're saying that he's selling something that you don't need and why wouldn't you need not as simple as that you're saying that you take bluetooth ion when you're hungover and it reduces the length of your hangover he sang take glutathione you're saying saying to take glutathione is unnecessary you're saying that you don't need it we need it you don't need nutrients if you could live on cheeseburgers in and get to be fucking 60 years old is eating shittyfood what does it mean that you're liar Hold On song it doesn't mean your life is an enhanced by Rob vegetables and nutrients and having a balanced diet that you you saying that you don't need Bluetooth surround is pretty ridiculous if you can get bluetooth ion into your liver you will your hangover will be reduced so why don't you whether this method of taking a supplement will get glutathione into

liver is something that I don't know and I would have to look at the research before I would tell you that you're already not using are you being wrong I'm I'm accusing him being wrong that you can take a product and not get drunk after trying trying to get drunk and not able to get drunk I'm saying if that's wrong and it borders on being really really on ethically wrong we agree on that but you set up all sorts of straw man Arguments for why he did it and what he's doing and what he's saying in the bioavailability of vitamin C knows all fall into fall apart under scrutiny what's happening come on and correct it going to come on and debate you he doesn't know you and he doesn't he's not going to want to I get someone who knows the best keys that he's awake he's a silly guy and sometimes he might speak in hyperbole but what he's saying that you corrected you're wrong about the bioavailability you attributed him this erroneous number of 1000 mg and say that you want to Play It Again Play it again let's play again the liposomal injection

and you take it liposomal you'll absorb 93% Smiley said what he said was if you take a thousand milligrams of Vitamin C your body only absorb 19% they said if you take Vitamin C liposomal your body absorbs a giant amount of it he said 19% and 93% that's what he said he didn't say it take a thousand milligrams know you're saying you don't need that much vitamin C that's why it's wrong but high levels of vitamin C that's debatable as well does high levels of vitamin C have been shown to be potent antioxidant that can prevent against certain types of disease is a lot of people think it boost your immune system and helps fight off the various pathogens there's a lot of research hard data that shows a high levels of vitamin C is probably pretty good for you in my research all of that is turned out to be nonsense your research on vitamin C is extensive yes what's your research on vitamin C I got I can look at my episode for you I mean it was a few years ago we talked mostly about it it was invented by course Linus Pauling who buy this time in his career was something of a crank and

came up with this notion that vitamin megadosing would cure cancer and he wrote the book called

remember the name of his book but that's essentially what started off the whole vitamin supplement movement that still exist very strongly to this day and what we have found by testing is that vitamin c does not significantly affect cancer the winter duration or severity of a cold etc etc all these things that we take it for

this caused the Great Rift between him and Science and he spent most of the rest of his career which was fairly short because he was quite elderly by that time basically widening that Rift and debating with but with the medical profession and trying to defend his Vitamin megadosing idea and what you'll find now I mean this is pretty much everywhere in recent scientific literature is the idea that vitamins really don't do anything for you and ask her if you people have vitamin deficiencies Institute of Health published evidence dentistry in the vitamin C's anti-cancer properties that high levels of vitamin C kills cancer this is the National Institute of Health and read the whole thing I bet you so much and I come out there in vitro

in vitro or Ivy you mean in you mean means if you put something in a Petri dish and you put some cells in there and you pour something in it and it kills the cells that's in vitro it's got very little to do with in situ which is means actually doing something test in your body so would it be IVC is that what they would call it high dose IV see is that in vitro no it's not saying that saying high-dose IV see a non-toxic chemotherapeutic agent that can be given in conjunction with conventional cancer treatment based on the work of several vitamin C Pioneers before I'm Doctor we order was approved vitamin C with selectively toxic to cancer cells have given intravenously This research has recently reproduced and published by dr. Mark Levine at the National Institute of Health so meaning that it's the bioavailability is that is because it's intravenously introduced me that what he was saying about the bio ability bioavailability because of liposomal science

that would also be a higher absorption rate than eating it normally so what are you saying is that mean what this article saying is that there's benefit to taking high level of vitamin C

look I don't have that article in front of me but I will tell you in my experience that you can find an article making any point you want to very easily about anything and does that mean having research this extensively myself and being very familiar with with science writers and science journalist in virtually every field I can tell you that the current thinking is not that vitamin C has any beneficial effect on cancer article is it you're looking at it I think it's complicated man you know I think there's a there's a lot of work being done on the shows that there are benefits to taking in nutrients through saw there was a study free NBC12 the different various serious vitamin C supplement vitamins there was an interesting one that I'm looking at right now they were talking about the

the prevention of shit I'll try to find it infectious illness prevention and this is ncbi website the national health is to National Institute for health mood and stress cognition and they've shown that's actually that you can take high-level that vitamin C and different antioxidants and multivitamins have been shown to decrease juvenile delinquency

like I said you can find an article what did you say I don't remember benefits of vitamin C suck dick vitamins that all together you know man I I see where you going with all this and I I see your point of view your no-nonsense guy and I agree with you for the most part and I think that you know in the case of dr. Gordon and his description unfortunate that he decided to give that anecdotal story along with this very interesting aspect of researching Nutrition a fair assessment would never make me angry enough to shut it off and yell at them in your descriptions of even what he said in the event is off you know and I think that's from this hard stance no-nonsense approach you have and I don't blame you if you look in the world we live in it's filled with bullshit and a no-nonsense guy gets fucking tired of dealing with bulshit that on a regular basis all day long and I think you're right you're bitten e jerking

reactions that fella the that you're certainly not the only person to have said that they used to believe 5 years ago man lighting up the best definition of skepticism is the intersection of Science Education and consumer protection if people are have better science literacy they are less likely to take advantage of products that are

worthless you can that is a way of looking at it that the you know it at age and consumer protection motivation I believe that information about AIDS in consumer protection all all information that eventually right now we're dealing with this rudimentary sort of a way of simulating Anton and distributing it and I think ultimately all the bullshit that we're dealing with in this world will stop to to be valid I think what we're dealing with right now is like we Google things we have when do we have an answer about something I got one day we're going to have an Unstoppable like a base of knowledge and I think that it's probably sooner than later but right now when we do have this these discrepancies in these these issues any gray area anywhere that you're wrong and you take the hard stance is hard no-nonsense dance it actually does more harm than it does good because if we could show that you're wrong that even though it's not your message is correct I agree with your message

set it at the time he's my friend I wish I could call you on your bullshit I wished I could cuz I know him and he's kind of crazy but the you saying all those things diminishes your initial point because your initial point was very valid he was being irresponsible and saying that you could take this stuff and not get drunk it seems ridiculous he shouldn't have told that anecdotal story but you shouldn't have insisted that he said a thousand mg in that 93% bioavailability and then you're trying to find some way that he's wrong so you're going well why do you need that much and then say that what he's trying to sell it so he's not smelling shit stores, God damn thing agree to disagree on whether he said that because we played on me we played in the back and I heard play it again. As far as you know what health and fitness and exercise and all sorts of just had a couple of minutes I'll put this is the whole thing every conversation vitamin helps your liver

take us to Dad what is this what is it specifically we interact with our rum it's a delivery technology we're home you wrap the vitamins or your wrap the supplement in a what's called a liposome which is like a cell wall inside from lecithin it's from soy and it protects whatever it is that you're ingesting cuz lot of the things that you take like I think I shared with you if you take a thousand milligrams of Vitamin C by mouth you only absorb 19% the rest of it's destroyed by the acid that's in the stomach but if you wrap it in this protection called the liposome you'll be able to absorb 93% so taking something like glutathione what you normally he didn't say you take a thousand mg of vitamin C he said if you do you absorb 93% if you take he's just giving numbers I'm saying if you would take a thousand milligrams

he's not recommending that is a ghost he sang if you do your body absorbs 19% that's true he saying if you wrap it in a liposomal structure your body absorbs 93% used to write I'm kind of stunned on what you're saying I got wrong I said he said at the thousand milligrams of vitamin C and you absorb 93% of it she said you said he was wrong and was he's telling you to take a thousand mg it wasn't telling you to take anything

what he saying is if I'm you take a thousand milligrams of Vitamin C your body will only absorb 19% if you wrap it in this liposomal structure your body will absorb 93% I know he's not recommending that is a daily allowance he's not telling you to take it you're trying to find a way to be right here and it's kind of weird I'm repeating exactly what you just said I'm just kind of stunned that you're pointing out what I said was wrong I said

deteriorating and it's not really that quality explaining where you are in the way you cast judgement and that you are you're incorrect about what you saying but you were your main point where he's wrong as why do you need that much vitamin C in the first place what's a big deal what is liposomal think you were trying to diminish him you're trying to find ways to diminish this point but he's correct although he gave you a number if you didn't give you a number of a thousand mg what if he said $100 but it was at 5 and was your body on he came up with a number for a point of reference but his point was your body absorbs 19% he said then if you take it liposomal your body absorb absorb 93% he didn't mean that you have to take a thousand milligrams it doesn't tell you to take a thousand mg he just gave you a point of reference for explaining the bioavailability of liposomal product as opposed to the standard form of detest digestive can I just summarize my position and we can move on just in two points

Point number one is he used very Quack Like language throughout the nine minutes that I listen to the Saints amazing and I just came sweetie which which made me very skeptical of his motivations and quality of his information number to you do not need to take a thousand mg of this is this is this is drama this is summarizing my point is that you do not need to take doses of any doses of vitamins or other supplements unless you're there are people who for some reason has a vitamin deficiency which is you know you need to be pretty sick or have some problem to have any need for any you were criticizing him for saying you need a thousand which is in fact not what he said I don't I don't think he would have said that unless he was trying to imply or suggest that at least a good thing to take vitamin C vitamin C vitamin

for you keep that from happening if you going to Long Boat Trip with a bunch of assholes or eating dried meat take your vitamin C but there's nothing wrong with vitamin C what it what he's saying is he gave a point of reference he started with a thousand mg if you take that he is a figure of speech you lose or 19% it take liposomal you absorb 93% we're beating a dead horse you're wrong here

I'm I'm I am flabbergasted that you're saying I'm wrong but I'm I'm let's just move on I mean this is just going around in circles this is serious but it's so late but it's it's it's it's highlighting the way you think and the one who sings about the way you think is this desire to be right and you have a very strong desire to win you're criticizing him to be right and I think you're wrong I think you're wrong about a couple of things you're wrong about your initial description of the way you describe things is wrong and you don't like the way he using adjectives or Hyperbole and you said that's what I'm talking about the point is that he said that you could not get drunk or that his friend wasn't drunk but that's a really good point that sounds like nonsense to me still sounds like nonsense I think that's I think he exaggerated or I think he told an anecdotal story of someone was bullshiting him

do you don't smoke any weed at all do you know cookie and massage your get a Thai massage your arms back and walk on your back relax man there's there's a lot of Merit in what you're doing and there's a lot of Merit in what you're saying and I understand your Arguments for the this hard stance I totally understand it but I also think the sometimes it diminishes your actual point which can many times be very valid

such as this this whole shit we're doing his dance about vitamin C why do you think he brought it up why do you think you talked about how to talk about bluetooth ion you want to talk about it if you would listen to the whole podcast he talks about a variety of different ways that we can improve our health and things to avoid especially in head in packs and heat you know what goes in the depths he's a very he's a very interesting and very charitable guy not a bad guy at all so I was confused as to I could see how you would get upset that statement absolutely but all that other stuff leading up the statement to Serta flavor this table to make it even worse and granddaughter turned out to not be true anytime anytime you're suggesting selling promoting miraculously easy solutions too complicated problems that should raise a huge red flag and all of the language she was using suggested a miraculously easy solution words like you know the words he was using

I think he actually in his defense he used a lot of those words to describe its effects as an antioxidant which pretty much universally accepted online no effects as an antioxidant it's strong as an ox what has what has been the current state of antioxidant research is that supplementation has no benefit the antioxidants that you get from your normal diet are more than enough that your body can weld needs to use supplementation has no benefit how did they like me how do they test to see the benefit of antioxidants an antioxidant supplement just goes back to the whole of the question of oxidation versus antioxidant sounds like it's a really simple question good versus bad oxidation is part of so many different parts of your metabolism converting the energy and sell to converting chemical energy and sell the kinetic energy that's oxidation that you can't just simply say antioxidants good

oxidation bad it's not as simple as that what you're saying is that antioxidants benefit where is that is that polish tomorrow

if you Google that sentence I'm sure you'll find it so I'm going to have antioxidants but how do they know the difference between taking it with the the benefits of taking it with food in the benefits of taking it as a supplement because we can chemically measure what's in the food we can chemically measure what's in a supplement we know how much your body uses and the number of tests that have been done are all going to use different methodologies and I'm sorry I did not memorize the most plant honestly I'm honestly curious so what I do is summarize the available research so what would this what I'm confused about you if you are taking it in food there's a benefit front the amount of oxidation that you got in a normal diet yes if you don't eat a normal diet then I presume that if you were going on a water starvation diet or something then I suppose you probably want to take a multivitamin you at least get your vitamins you wouldn't be getting anything else you need but you'd be getting the item

I suppose the same is true of ghetto just about any supplement if you're going to starve yourself but the best the best advice of all is to Simply eat a normal healthy diet because those things those those aspects of nutrition are available and that normal healthy diet and their bioavailable there's the other six basic things that you get in food number one is water number to is amino acids number 3 is carbohydrates sugar number for is fats 5 number 6 what am I missing here about 5 vitamins and 6 is minerals so these are all the different classes of things that you need any normal healthy diet has all of those that your body is going to use is actually you need quite tiny amounts of all those things your body actually uses very tiny amounts any normal diet the reason you poop and pee is because you ate more than you need it

supplementation is trying to pour water on a bucket that's already overflowing drink more than needed you're going to poop and pee if you just drink the exact right amount to you can poop and pee all the way to starvation

no you can't you'll stop pooping listen if you keep drinking water like when the water passes through your body it's not because you drink too much water

your ear if you drink if you drink a glass of water okay and that water goes through is exactly two body needed in a few hours are going to need it as a waste eliminator urine until there is tea dehydrate you can hit the certain sweet spot where you eat exactly what you need or drink exactly what you need but what I'm saying is Ebony pooping and peeing is because you ate too much or drink too much that's not true you're taking my words to literally I know that's a very literal statement isn't it

I mean come on that's ridiculous medical statement a doctor would listen to that I'm just calling you about it what do you say what is it is pouring water on a bucket it's already over. Need more sugar than your body is going to use you don't need more minerals than your body is going to use you don't need more vitamins than your body's going to anything that you'd eat of those that is more than you can use as going to be get excreted from your body somehow or other sooner or later

that makes sense that's what I'm saying okay

I would I would love to know what studies they did on antioxidants and what they know the benefits of them in the absolutely of measure the benefits of it from food the individual nutrients of antioxidants what sort of effect they have on the human body and what really be curious to find out what studies disprove that or prove that I hear on Google right now Google skeptoid antioxidant not going to read your stuff silly I'm going to if I'm going to Google stuff I'm going to Google people that disagree with you but it is a lot to do agree with you in all fairness online if you if you if you want to find out if you want to ask what my sources were where I got the information that's where you'll find it the references at the bottom of the episode I just wonder what the motivation of these studies were what what the protocol was Miss a lot of variables like this new study that came out that said case closed no multivitamin researches came out and said that multivitamins don't work well if you know what the study was at the actual studied the protocol that they use and what they actually tried to do it so it's kind of

irresponsible statement to say vitamins don't work Case Closed what they did was they gave multivitamins he's hard multivitamins to Physicians over age 65 and they showed no improvement in cognitive decline they took people that were are you declining they gave him vitamins that were these hard fucking the synthetic vitamins and it showed no no decline over no ceasing in the declining of the cognitive function another one high-dose multivitamins had no effect on the progression of heart disease and heart attack survivors these people already fucked there he had a heart attack they give him high levels of these again synthetic multivitamins he's compressed pill form you know Centrum one-a-day jammies that nobody digest and then another one the third study which actually is fairly positive concludes that limited evidence supports any benefits from vitamin mineral supplementation for the prevention of cancer or cardiovascular disease 2 trials found a small borderline significant benefit from multivitamin supplements

cancer in men only and no effect on cardiovascular disease so that's a small barely measurable effects in the shity synthetic vitamins on people who are fucked people who are already sick people with their bodies already dying to say that vitamins don't work based on those three components is ridiculous really unfortunate aspect of the world of science reporting something that I've come to learn over and over and over again and it's it's it's pretty depressing is how news makes it from the lab in 2 on the people computers are aspect of the title right yeah the fact is that universities were so much research is done they have PR departments and they are responsible for keeping attention on this University keeping keeping the money flowing and the PR department at a university is going to spend what they see as the most reportable aspect of the research be

they send out the press release and then depressed does exactly the same thing they look at it and look for the most reportable aspect of this and it's often often it's completely wrong by the time it gets to the presses because they'll report The Sensational aspect of it and what what you laugh and see if I follow a lot of science writer to do this a lot is they they kind of reverse engineer these headlines that have become so prominent and it's always some in a scientist find that this will kill you scientists find that this is a miracle cure and when you reverse engineer those headlines and go back and look at the echo original research that was done you'll find off and it said exactly the opposite of what the headline says it's really difficult to come up with kind of a journeyman's interpretation of Science News by reading by reading mass media yeah they did publish to study though that they mean the title of the study is enough is enough stop wasting money on vitamin and mineral supplements in this is the title of the article that was real

I think they took an inflammatory position that I don't think is supported by the evidence in the research that they presented and it's very short-sighted there's many many aspects to to health and when you're dealing with someone who is already really fucking sick which is all three of the people that they describe that they tested these things on all groups of the people you know you're you're dealing with a Asuka mean to try to like the rate of decline in in people that have Alzheimers and the rate of decline of people with cognitive decline we don't have anything that's going to stop. Like what makes you think that vitamin stop in because of vitamins don't stop it seems that would be beneficial for health or are not stopping something that we've never been able to stop that's seems Preposterous to say vitamins don't work based on that evidence seems to me like this is something that was a predetermined conclusion or the most inflammatory response which we're talking about it so it's effective in that sense so 10 minutes

how can three hours in there there's a really unfortunate word and its consensus and of the word consensus described as unfortunate because he has a very different meaning in popular usage than it has in scientific fields in scientific fields we describe a consensus as something not merely that most scientists generally agree on although that's often true what what if scientific consensus really means is that this is research that has been repeated in other labs and the results have been confirmed the results have been scrutinized people tried to disprove them people tried to find alternate explanations and it has truly past a certain level of scientific rigor then we say we have a scientific consensus in science circles consensus means a lot more than it does in popular usage and you will find that the consensus

is that supplementation has no benefit among healthy people who don't have a deficiency due to some strange cause whatever that might be I think you'll always find articles to to the contrary or articles like this that sensationalize that into something that it's not sensationalized either negative aspects of it I don't think there's really a consensus about supplementation because in order to really totally completely monitor like that the variations between two human beings you have to have two people that were exactly the same genetically exactly same as far as their life experiences their life stress all the different factors that that add up to health there's a massive range of factors that come into play when you're dealing with a person's health if you measure a bunch of people with very good diets rich in green leafy vegetables and life foods and all these different healthy things and no bullshit and processed foods and then you measure people who have the typical American fast-food I think you're going to see that these nutrients of spring

beneficial to people that eat healthy food are certainly going to have a greater incidence of of being healthy but to really break it down and figure out how much of an effect a nutritional supplement would have based on based on that would be like you have to take the exact same people live in the exact same lives one of them would take us up on that and one of them wouldn't may be really hard to figure out and then you have to say what if you eat healthy it's the best way everybody agrees on that I don't think I've ever heard a single person who knows about health and nutrition that says you can eat seafood and just take vitamins it's impossible doesn't work that way there's a certain aspects of food that just missing in pill form you're always better off getting fresh leafy vegetables that are right out of the ground but taking supplements as well with a very dear special of your diet doesn't balance out as long as we're we're the bioavailability those supplements and then we're also aware that your body can absorb some of those supplements it seems to me like you're hedging your bets

seems like it's a good idea to take a good strong natural food-based supplementation program I think generally there's no harm in them to the wallet right there just unnecessary I don't know if necessary if you die does not totally balanced well that's think I may be able to make out but I think I'm able to make up some slack and if it can make up some slack and I think that it is that the official I mean if you have a healthy diet you're right you don't need it but there's a lot of shit that you get from from vitamin supplementation like like they're there certain like 5-HTP like 5-HTP which produces serotonin if you were if you're trying to get that from food you got to eat like a fucking garbage bag full of grass you know you're not going to the amount that you can take in a couple of pills the extracted form of the the active nutrients like you fuck you got to eat a lot of stuff to get that and I think that that's science these people have figured out how to extract these things and I just guessing but not just guessing what the effects that are on the body or

passing how to get the stuff out of food or what what contains that they know and that is science as well as me how the human race manage to survive until this decade before all these things were invented survive the ideas are we are we optimized and many times now maybe times are not optimized you know where where optimize when we add supplement sometimes you know sometimes supplements can if you are in a situation where you're not getting all the beneficial nutrients but you add them and then try to balance out your dad as well I think you can you can add you I don't think it's either or I think undeniably healthy food is the number one thing for for health healthy food your body is what I'm talking these Hunters yesterday and they were talking about how bears that eat certain foods are not good to eat I can bears eat rotten fish and eat them like you literally takes the rotten fish but it bears eat blueberry they're delicious and they're there they actually at a hunting episode about catching Bears blueberry bears that come out of the dens and just Feast on these huge hills of blueberries and they get fat

start with blueberry fat it's amazing because as they're cutting is fat off it's like a bluish fat like the guy from the blueberry actually makes it into their cells unbelievable it stands to reason that we are also what we eat and if we eat a ton of healthy foods that are flesh is enriched with nutrients are our tissue is enriched with his this purified water and these healthy vegetables and you know in any good lean proteins and all these different things are good for us if you can take that little bit of that in pill form as well I don't think it's a bad thing for you like I say I agree it's not a bad thing for you it's just it's just almost always unnecessary and so what you want to lead a super balanced diet if you have any kind of any kind of a diet if you don't live in you know Chad or Somalia you're getting your you're doing pretty well so you think that it's not worth it your call is that it's not worth it like the amount of money spent for vitamins is pretty expensive oh and dude yeah if you're a Mendelssohn multivitamins if you going to buy the body

taxis men pure packs is the athlete pure packs because it's easy for me to do and I think they're caught I forget what it costs like probably like a dollar a pill pack or something like that maybe maybe a little bit more in overtime. But for me I just think of it as a hedge in my bed I want to make sure I get as much nutrients in my body is I can I store a little extra. There's a lot there's a lot more substantial things to worry about in life things though that the average person doesn't need that athletes too and I think that that's that's another issue when it comes to supplementation athletes find a lot of benefit in food and supplementation not can always have more food depending on what you're in you know some some athletes have to watch her weight

go watch the girls figure get some exercise to you and I agree on more than we disagree about Mark but if I didn't you would a fucking killed me next time I saw him and I would have to deal with glutathione talk for an hour and a half I just want to review the tweets and how many people have called me an ass hole open listen if anybody's calling Brian ass he's not an asshole and I think that you are ideas essentially the hard stance that you take is because you know there's so much bullshit out there and I think it's a good stance I think it's the right stance most of the time and I think that you know by by being this in a hard as no-nonsense guy though

it does eliminate some of the flexibility of this world's they the real conspiracies are automatically dismissed for the standard you know

official report you know I think that's not always good either you know the old saying extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence sure if you go around question and you know whether this tables real or whether it's an illusion obviously that's silly but you got to draw the line somewhere I don't know I had dr. Amit goswami theoretical physicist and he made me question everything that I start talking about string theory and sucking particles in the state of superposition where they're moving and still at the same time they appear and disappear while his name is dr. Amit goswami racist man dude happens to be Indian to come down you hard sun is a billion of them I want to thank you for coming on the podcast first call and I want to thank you for just discussing all this stuff when it's it's it's fascinating and like I said I think we agree more than we disagree and I'm glad we

cleared up hopefully some of the misconceptions about how I approach things that I certainly am easy to criticize and I'm certainly easy to categorize as well as a lot of my ridiculous comments aren't we all had various things have a suggestion well I will certainly be following this up on skeptoid. Com it mean the battle continues that sounds like a warning man alright well thank you very much and people could find you on Twitter it's Brian Dunning on Twitter Brian with an i and d u n n i n g pen skeptoid is a podcast please download And subscribe to that everything else people should go to to check it out go to check me out and eat dinner your stop you know information and what you want to say before I'm on Facebook but it's very unfortunate page name is Brian Dunning fan page and Page humiliates the hell out of you enjoyed the conversation or was it frustrating a great time thank you so much better I hate when people

I don't want anybody mad I think I would love to do this again we'll talk again and maybe we can address some of the things that people said online and the mean things are going to call you and me we're going to have some fun alright thank you everybody thanks for tuning in to podcast I will be back Friday with the one and only Steven rinella who is taking me pig hunting this weekend sir I can't wait I'm very excited and as far as dates tomorrow it is going live on Twitter I'm going to be in Dallas at the Verizon Theater and that is in March I think it's March 2nd March Friday at 10 tomorrow Friday a.m. is regular sale but tomorrow the pre-sale is at 10 a.m. and the ticket password is first so if you type in the word first you could buy

it's tomorrow and it's at the Verizon Theater I don't know who's coming with me I'm putting it all together right now and that's it everything else Chicago we're at the Chicago Theatre on January 24th it's me and the Renegade Jew Ari shaffir that's his new nickname call him that from now on I want to have the TSA meet him and then go all of the Renegade Jew come on immediately recognize these he's a silly man you have to press come he's not blowing anything up so that January 21st at 24th rather at the Chicago theater and that's it thank you to our sponsors thank you to Squarespace how to enter into the Squarespace competition go to hashtag with the sub on Twitter hashtag JRE Squarespace and by this Friday the 4th and Saturday the 17th was to 17456 17th this Friday we're going to decide the winner so I will

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