#1343 - Penn Jillette

Aug 29, 2019

Penn Jillette is a magician, actor, musician, inventor, television personality, and best-selling author best known for his work with fellow magician Teller as half of the team Penn & Teller. Check out his podcast called "Penn's Sunday School" available on Apple Podcasts and other platforms.

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Echo just a fuel your workouts JRE listeners can go to super fat.com Joe and enter the code Joe and the listeners this podcast will get 15% off that's super fat.com / Jo and enter the code Joe for 15% off my guest today is one of my favorite people on the planet Earth I love them to death although I don't see him enough he's an amazing person he's he's a fantastic magician he's awesome at everything he's awesome at talking please give it up for my friend Angela The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day Joe Rogan podcast by night oh and we're like um okay who's that that's working that easy not easy yeah we didn't say very much interesting before starting you know we were starting and then you just said shut the fuck up that hold that top of this this concept of things getting better

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we're talking about warm or being too because there's a World War II helmet that Shane Against the Machine is the gentleman's name he's made me another sculpture and he started making sculptures out of these World War Two helmets with a lamp underneath it and an actual real World War II pain as well and you were saying was a terrible idea and it's going away you think really yeah really really fast and you mentioned Pinker yeah and that's you know everything I will say is redundant to Pinker I mean that a better angels of our nature is one of I think the most subversive books of our time you know people are there's such a it's a fetish to suffer it's a fetish to say how bad things are people getting really off on it and when you start saying you know after you say one death by violence is too many and we got to clean up the environment and then it'll say all that stuff and it's all true but you can also take a breath and say things are getting better yeah

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I think we need to recognize that and the problem is there is there is violence there is horrible things there are horrible things in the world they still exist and now they're magnified because of the fact that we have this ability to look at it on your phone anytime you want to you can on your computer when the same thing it's the same thing I think calories and information are identical you know for Millions billion yeah here's the biggest problem every living thing had was too few calories and then for what maybe 75 years a very small percentage of the animals in the world had this problem of too many calories and there's nothing that prepares anybody for that we now have more information in one issue of the New York Times then a 17th century peasant would have had in their entire life so we have this glut of information that we're dealing with about as well as we dealt with calories

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about this quite often but the way I described it as diet and that most people have a poor diet and then most people's diet is not nutritious where and if you have a poor diet that's not nutritious your body becomes unhealthy well if you have a poor mental diet yeah and I've discussed how many people do we talked about this with like three or four people have been talking about this like taking in information you should almost think of it as a mental diet because if you take in bad information all the time negative information I will speak for myself but I don't think I'm in any way alone I often forget where I read stuff oh yeah I have to be really careful to not read too much garbage yeah all right just pops up in my head is oh that's real right so I try to go with new sources that are I think are pretty reliable even if I disagree with them like I try to read the times because I know there's a level to how much they're going to lie we know we know where the parameters are there lying are you know ya know where they do the spin and if you just just pop around the web at random

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can't tell what kind of information you're getting but I also want to add to this you know it's exactly the way I feel about drugs you know as much as I want to say this is not right for me information has to be out there and all information absolutely no Gatekeepers you know I completely agree and I think that we're coming very close to a time where technology allows us to understand what's true and what's not true we're not there yet but I think we're really close to being able to have some sort of an ability to read minds to decipher information like really clearly but the problem with reading Minds if we could do it and the to ascertain truth is truth is very different from what someone believes yes you know if you had a perfect lie detector it would not help you with criminality at all because you know people that think they're innocent may very well think they're innocent even if they are not of sure yeah that's a really good point and you know another really good point is memory is very foul

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well yeah I see I you know I got a lot of I got a lot of shit for this and I talked about a little bit on my podcast but you know I was in the room with Trump a lot you know I did two Tauruses yeah I did two tours of Duty tell it tell me about that was that like that was supposed to do that show and I passed on it yeah I was like I don't want to live in New York for three months or whatever it was yeah just seem like it's wise either way it was a it was a prime-time television show so it's all tickets and that is our job right and that's what we do and I went on with one idea in my head you know Annie Duke you know the poker player she had been on the air before and I said why am I going on I mean I know I'm not going to sell tickets and that's that's just a done deal but why am I going on what's my real goal and she said go on and show that atheist can be kind

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it'll be your only goal for the whole show because they're gonna jump on you for being atheist they'll jump all over you for that and just show that you're the one that gets mad the least so the one that you're the nicest guy on there and you're the hardcore atheist and I went okay that's a good goal but then you sit in the room and I don't know how well you know the president United States and I don't want to know him at all yeah but you spend about two or three hours every other day sitting in a room across the table like this with a table you can't put your hands on I can't put hands on it because it might more it in oh that's hilarious but a handprint on it literally tell you don't put your hands on me I'm the table and you have to sit up straight and the camera if you're like the team captain which by the way they hate it if you call them team captain they like to have it you know some sort of business jargon and you're in you're in a set and that's the thing that everybody else on the show would say we're going into the Board Room now and I'd say no we're going

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on to the Board Room set so it wasn't a real board worm no of course not none of it in The Sound Stage it was you know it was in the Trump Towers but they taken over floor and Embassy got sitting puts up this shit and then the picture camera that your hero camera that's over your shoulder that shooting Trump so you can't lean into the camera right and they want a little piece you can't lean out of the camera so that you've got about two hours where you sit up straight and you can't move side to side and you can't put your hands on the table and you listen to someone speak for two hours that they're going to try to edit out to get three minutes where he sounds okay okay what does he have to say for two hours people taught he would talk I mean things obviously have changed but he would talk about I was reading this blog on the internet that said I didn't sell my property for enough and I bought it for three million dollars and I sold it for 4 million

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and isn't that a prophet isn't that a prophet what do you think is that a prophet yeah that would be a million dollars profit well they said I sold it for to less than too little okay who was this there's somebody on the internet okay so you know he'd be arguing in front of us with perhaps a 18 year old guy on the internet who thought that Donald Trump should have made more from a real estate deal and this is something he really concentrates on he seems to still to this day yeah obsessed with what anybody says about a mini time it's so odd and I thought and I want to say this very clearly I thought he was wonderful at his job you know if you had someone who was actually a business person on that show it would be the worst job in the world because Bill Gates would make proper decisions right and it be no surprises you want someone capricious and crazy with no filter that's what

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want right and that's what we got so he makes arbitrary decisions that you try you know the human brain tries desperately to make those make sense and that ends up being some kind of entertainment and so I actually actually Donald Trump jr. said to me you know of all the people we've had on the show you seem like the only person who's ever liked my father you said you actually seem to like them and I said you know I have a Fascination and a respect and a affection for people who are able to get out of their filters and I said some people do that with pure Genius Like Bob Dylan some people do it with bravery like Lenny Bruce some people do it with drugs you know Neil Young perhaps Jimi Hendrix perhaps and most people do it with a mixture of stuff but I said Thelonius Monk said the genius is the one who is most like himself

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and I said with some sort of mental problems coupled with greed and a lack of compassion your father has somehow found a way to throw off the filters and I will listen to Tiny Tim talk on tape for hours because I like that little bit of Asperger's and all that other stuff Mom I'm not assuming I'm not qualified to act but I'm saying that he's hot it is awesome I can hear him talk forever I can listen to Lenny Bruce you know how will their has those hundreds of hours of him just ranting on his tape I think I don't like people on drugs that much but boy I do and I listen to Lenny Bruce talk forever and Donald Trump had the dark side of that you know is almost like when I was hitchhiking around the country and you know homeless and shit and you'd end up in a biker place and you know some Clubhouse and some guys just holding court and rant

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I've always been interested in the people who are out on the margins you know and what what Donald Jr took as affection I guess was a bit of affection but it's also that if you have thrown off some filters I'll listen to you talk

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and so that was that it was very very strange and then I really did spend a lot of time kind of sticking up for Donald Trump saying yeah there's interesting stuff there and yeah he's crazy and he's venal and he's empty you know really weird stuff that you've never seen before you have never seen someone who is never laugh sincerely and never made a joke never laughs sincerely know he will he will laugh in a bully way I look kind of Fat Joe really yeah he'll do that but he won't laugh at himself oh oh no and also but never a even a joke even it says her only things on Twitter did you see the thing he did on Twitter the other day we put a picture of Trump Tower in Greenland and he said I promise not to do this yeah I mean I laughed that was funny giant Trump Tower in the middle of Greenland I never saw it I mean I saw that but we never saw me person I never saw him first and I also never saw him show

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enjoyment or understanding of music and those two things are two things that I connect with people very much on I do too but one of my best friends Doug Stanhope does not like music oh yeah yeah I know Tyga's fucking hate music and tell his father really tell his father didn't like music I mean I don't know him and aggressively didn't like music yeah I don't know what that is but I do know that I don't I don't believe that we see things the same way like I don't think we taste things the same way which is why some people enjoy certain kinds of foods and some people hate those exact same foods that some people music sounds different if you had one terms of like what what their emotional and psychological makeup is and what it does to them some people don't want to have none of it and that's stand up when I lost all that weight you lost over a hundred pounds congratulation and I read a lot and also more importantly for years and kept it off but when I was reading about taste I read this book and I

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no it's awful that I can bring up the name but woman wrote this wonderful book about preferences in food and she was trying to set up a dichotomy let's talk to those people who think there's a natural taste and desire and food and those that think it's all environment and what you memory and so on and you just can't find scientists on the other side all of our food preferences are habit and there's nothing else habit it's just happened is that proven how can they prove that seems to be lots of studies with young children lots of studies with people who they control their body but how do you make how does it make sense when you have two kids that have radically different taste that grew up in the same household and they have essentially a very very similar food experiences yeah well I don't know how they tease out that but that one daughter one daughter who loves spicy food and she's young she's nine yeah and I love spicy food and I mean this

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can kid can eat jalapenos he's habanero sauce she'll like I'll say this one might be a little too hard for you just like let me try it and she like Dipper finger and she's like put it on she'll eat chicken with habanero sauce and she's a little Savage my other one doesn't want to have nothing to do with you she did she thinks everything's too hot like a little bit of pepper she's like oh it's too hot but you know I I found when my when I changed my diet so radically that my comfort Foods changed a my habits changed and what I like to G know a lot of that is because of gut bacteria I know that no yeah microbiome fascinating really fascinating stuff and seating back to your brain you know that was the thing that was so strange putting your emotions yes very much so but when I became plant-based vegan for health reasons and I wrote in my book I wrote a lot of stuff about I am an unethical vegan I'm not doing this for any sort of animal

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any sort of animal lack of animal cruelty nothing strictly Health that's why I'm doing the plants and a story and this has happened to a lot of friends of mine who changed that after whatever it takes and people are guessing like three months four months of of no animal products those little critters eaten shit in your in your guts die that like the meat stuff and they're not giving that feedback loop and I just found a real emotional change where all of a sudden I went I don't want to be part of that of the suffering yeah it was really strange how that changed and it really felt to me I've so want to you know hardcore atheist as you know and I don't believe in a mind-body separation at all and yet I seem to believe that when I was 350 pounds that

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um none of that affected my emotion and then I lost all this weight and found they were so many changes in me that seemed to be intellectual and emotional and actually I had a lot of evidence where physical well there are people me up on the mind-body separation should fuck you up because a lot of people make these assumptions that you know you are not your body and a lot of very intelligent people the issue working out and they don't want to exercise and they find it like it's a vanity thing it seems egotistical they don't they don't like it and so they put it in this category of kind of Knucklehead dumb things to do but your body and your mind are all in the same house all the same thing yeah if your house is filled with shit it doesn't help the way we think so amazing how I mean I completely believe that and yet I wasn't live at that I was like thinking that I was living this you know

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2,000 year old idea of little homunculus who's kind of living inside me who's this pure pain and then the body is just the vehicle is driving around if I think she's not true help you with that I think knowing you as long as I've known you you're an intense thinker and you your mind is something you mean you cherish your thoughts and you you embrace them and you're a very intelligent guy and I think you just probably rejected the idea that there was anything outside of the mind that had any influence on you we also talked about this I was also you know I was the biggest guy to ever go through my school so my small High School in Western Massachusetts you know so I was I was six seven and they wanted me to center of the basketball team they want all this stuff and those kinds of people and that kind of culture you know I wanted to listen to music I wanted to read and I set up this you guys who are physical I don't like you I'm on a different

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team yeah you know and my dislike of competitions and teams became a team thing yes you know yeah yeah that's the thing you always get stuck in ya know they did the dislike of teams becomes your team and I'm trying so hard now to think I have two choices one or seven billion and there's no teams between that I can either be myself or I can be one of all Humanity or I won't even say seven billion let's say a hundred eight billion the number of people who have lived in history you know those are the people I can be it's why I'm trying to not and this is impossible to do by the way I'm talking about how I'm I'm explaining to you how I'm driving myself crazy right I'm not going to get real information I'm trying to not think ever of us and them but I'm trying to say those of us who voted for Trump those of us who believe this so it's always us because man I am so fucking sick of teams and I even look back and go you know

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I love The Velvet Underground I hated the fucking Eagles and that was a fucking team and that was manipulated and forced upon you don't mean I wanted to be the kind of guy that went from you know Zappa The Velvet Underground to to Bob Dylan that was all okay and the Eagles and the Doobie Brothers they were not what I listen to I'm just trying to let that go yeah you wanted to be one of the cool kids yeah exactly yeah and whenever you want that you got to say well you know one of the cool kids that's the hundred eight billion have lived on this planet yeah that's a great way to look at things and I think I wish people taught them in school the dangers of being involved in teams because we get involved in teams in terms of like you know you playing basketball or whatever but but teams in terms of like the what what I believe versus what you believe and I think we're experiencing that politically right now with the most polarizing time and in my lifetime that I've ever ever had accepted worldwide yes worldwide I mean

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and not it's not an American thing right and it's just insane and I also know that's why he said you know I try to go with the Velvet Underground in the Eagles because that's where I can really see where I'm wrong yeah you know that I'm wrong how do you deny Victim of Love that's a great song okay once Joe black lab in the mix the Eagles change you know people have to recognize what should the middle of the China Sea with Joe Walsh throughout through a series of odd coincidences Wyatt we'll just just last year we got this gig up Paul Allen who's one of the sure - oh my God she's here great guy right and he had great things about ebooks us to be on a cruise to do a show for his friends got like 200 friends and he's bought this fucking cruise ship he's rented this fucking cruise ship thrown off all the chefs and everything bring on his own people and they're going to go from from KOB a to Shanghai and he wants

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entertainment to be Jay Leno Penn & Teller and Ringo Starr whoa okay that's what it's going to be on the China Sea on a cruise boat for like 200 people and ebooks it and as I said to my friend piff the Magic Dragon I said do you know how much it costs to shut down Penn & Teller in Vegas and fly us all to fucking Japan to be on a cruise ship to do a fucking Penn and Teller show and then come back to it any idea how much that cost and piff said no and I said me me either but I must be a lot I gotta talk to my managers or something because that must mean a shit ton of money so we books this whole thing and then Paul Allen dies right dies so you know Glenn who you met out there the long-suffering Glenn who are manager he calls up and after few days and says really sorry for your loss and will trade in the tickets and get you the money back and we can probably read book those those weeks or it's not going to cost you anything and so

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are you no no no we're still doing it and then goes will use the person that booked us is dead we're still doing this gig and they can yeah we went okay and I said the Glenn you know now that we can work for dead people are career's going to take off you know because that opens up the market right right so it turns out that his friends you know Paul Allen's friends or people like Joe Walsh and Billy Gibbons and all these food scientists and all these great people so there I am in the middle of the China Sea with with Joe Walsh on stage just at 3:00 in the morning playing piano for like 15 people and you know singing Desperado and those kinds of things and talking to Joe Walsh and stuff and going now why exactly was I on a different team from Joe Hall Show why exactly was I am the Lou Reed team instead of the Joe Walsh team knows The Big Lebowski and

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if you baby baby baby was there but she beat it's just it's just trying to be more and more inclusive is just really difficult thing to do it is and whether it's the jobs in the music guys are all that stuff just everybody everybody you can't become a prisoner of those thoughts and those those things you espouse like when you start saying fuck the Eagles like you're stuck you're stuck with fuck the Eagles and then when you start to realize that you know when The Clash was hitting in the u.s. there were people sitting around a boardroom going how do we get 20 year old assholes to buy this shit right there you know it was all being done and laid out and that's fine that's their job that's great and God bless them but I got to be aware that they're doing that yeah I know when you think about someone selling Sex Pistols merchandise yes like well they're Sex Pistols slum sorry Sex Pistols lumps when I was first of the Hard Rock you know and there's a big sign the only notes that really counter the

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is it come in wads and that's over the door of a casino that you're walking in and then there's a Sid Vicious slot machine and you go okay okay so this is you know satires dead we can no longer do that tire that's over with hard to do sometimes do that done well I never I never was really hard because there's so many people that are serious that are more ridiculous and satire there's a guy who I don't know his real name but his Twitter name is Tatiana McGrath and he plays like the most woke person and all of Twitter and I retweet his stuff or her stuff the the pseudonym all the time and people get furious they're like oh my God is this fucking person serious like this is bullshit and I'm like it's a parody and I like oh and they go okay I get it my kids that close it's that close to being a real person but not close we've already crossed over oh yeah you'd absolutely there's no way to tell now there's no way to tell with woke people with the with the woke young there's no way

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tell with you with any with far right he's well you anything yeah no way to tell with any of us these are so but I never ever ever liked satire I never ever liked parody even I was reading onion National Lampoon the I know okay come on the onion how about that is that a turn around fast enough for you to onion is too good when the onion did the headline when Steve Jobs died which said Nation Mourns the loss of the last person to do what the fuck he was doing I went that's perfect but you know I I saw that poster you have up you have up here in Europe which one the Lenny Bruce without tears oh yeah yeah and you know the idea of walking I mean I look back I was I was whatever I was 10 or 11 when Lenny Bruce died and but in Ohio I did never hear him until after he was dead

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you're younger than me so it even more so for you but I did not go to college but I would hitchhike up to the college I was nearby when I was in high school which was UMass and all that Emerald yeah and because I'm from little dead factory town north of there and I remember seeing Lenny Bruce without tears they showed that as a film oh wow the college campus wow I think I'm remembering this right like we know our memories are wrong but I saw the film very early and it was completely life-changing for me you know the idea that stand-up comedy was going to go from what to me was the Smothers Brothers 22 somebody actually talking from their heart in a way that made people laugh but who cared and of course then Andy Kaufman turns that entirely inside out but the idea

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that form was created you know I created here in the US when you went from being a you know Park carcass you know Albert Brooks is father doing the Greek dialect and even throw in Amos and Andy and all of those people that did joke joke joke sand character stuff and then all of a sudden the guy coming out as himself and talking about his real life was just mind-blowing to me and so the idea that instead of doing parity being able to get your laughs stating what you believe and maybe that means people are laughing at you and maybe that's okay it's definitely okay but I don't think there's anything wrong with any way to do it I think there's nothing wrong with Abbott and Costello you know I mean it's funny yeah I was having a talk with Gilbert You Don't Give A gosh wait and we were talking he said you know and in the Laurel and Hardy Stan Laurel was the brains and then Three Stooges

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mole was the brains and in the Marx Brothers Groucho was the brains adapt and Costello had no Brave you know that total you want to talk about the Stooges big Anarchy yeah the Abbott and Costello are just completely off the map yeah but just really for the time though it was groundbreaking we it's hard for us to wrap our head around as was Cheech and Chong you know Cheech and Chong for the time was groundbreaking I know it has to do with drugs and vehicle for me to me I was on a different team if that yeah but I've gone back and that stuff is good and of course but I'm also a liar because I was crazy for Fireside theater and memorizing everything and Phil Proctor still of the good friend of mine and that was very much drug base I think that comedy is like music in that there's a whole bunch of different ways to do it you know and if you were a big fan of Bruce Springsteen and you went to

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Bruce Springsteen but Run DMC showed up instead you'd be furious you're like what the fuck is this but obviously people love Run DMC it's a different way to do a thing it's a different way to express yourself and a way to learn yeah no way to learn when you get when you get pushed out of there but it's just that that whole idea that you've got to decide mean my life is so heavily affected by drugs even though I had this whole you know I'm not going to do any drugs why did you have that decision you know I don't know I don't know that's always and I've talked about this on my podcast forever you know I tell I didn't know was that how old enough I'm 64 years old and you have no experience with drugs other than tation medications surgery Jarman be yes and I have had deep enough injuries that I have experienced or getting surgery because you love drugs exactly well you know Trey Parker

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um said that my big flaw was never having been high so fix that sorry I don't so what he did fix that I wouldn't for dental surgery serious dental surgery and they fucked up and the the dentist told the nurse what he had given me in terms of painkillers and she took that as what she was supposed to give me so instantly doubled the dose and I was so fucking high and out of my mind people can die that way yeah and I told my wife through my haze of not knowing who I was call Trey Parker Drake Came to Vegas and said I want to sit with Pat hi and I don't flew in a movie while you're fucked up yeah oh my God how long did it take him to get to you we were he was he was planning on being there like he came like a day early okay so we got he got there like I was still high and Trey said I didn't remember anything

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and trace of the next day I was right you should be high well there's different kinds of hot just like there's different kinds of music and you know I was very I was very very close to Lou Reed and I was a very good friend of mine and Lou said speaking on behalf of the people of Earth which I often do we don't want to see I motherfucker don't do it so Lou says no Trey says yes what is Joe say well Joe is interesting because I wanted to talk to you about this because we had a conversation a long time ago about this and you said the eye and I'll remember this very clearly I may paraphrase this but you said I think we've learned all there is to know and I don't need to do it yes I said that and I was wrong yeah just wrong I think you should experience psychedelics you don't think psychedelics are a totally different thing they don't take you we know Sam Harris sure and Sam Harris is the one who got me meditating awesome which took him years

► 00:39:09

of arguing with me and now it's been three or four years that I have not missed a day not mr. day you you have a problem here's one of the problems you're very intelligent you're also very large and you're very articulate and people like to hear you talk so you just can talk and you can take over you could overrun things and you can make an argument that people just go all right okay and they step back and that's good if you're trying to win an argument but sometimes it's bad to take in ideas and I remember when I had that conversation actually right thank you when I had that conversation with you I remember saying I'm going to revisit this some day and one day I want to get pain fucked up on mushrooms that's what I remember thinking like it might be a good thing for well the best thing for you would be something that doesn't take very long just so you can expect like DMT is the best one because it takes like 15 minutes and it's over and then the your body brings it back to Baseline almost immediately so you literally travel to another dimension and then your back and you don't have to worry about any overdosing because it's an endogenous chemical your body knows exactly

► 00:40:09

Aqua to do it so one of the quickest chemicals that your body can break down and bring back to Baseline in in my defense from the very beginning of my not doing drugs which is of odd odd kind of kind of Baseline there I always left the door open for for psychedelics in the heart when I what I dislike the most was wine with dinner really I dislike the most social kind of lubrication wine with dinner is amazing doing this in past tense you know that's that's right that's right that's right I always was and I always left open the possibility of some of the more intense stuff wine with dinner is a delicious drug it's one of the rare delicious drugs like I like whiskey but let's be honest it tastes like shit it's weird you're drinking this stuff like whoo like it's got kind of a good flavor but it's like it's harsh you can't drink it like it

► 00:41:09

fuck with Kool-Aid Kool-Aid tastes way better than working right please cheap he just mix it up it tastes delicious it's way better tasting but you know wine has a delicious taste you can enjoy here's my problem one of my many problems will detail more than one okay but I have no skill at moderation I'm 64 years old and I've never been able to do anything with moderation so I think if you told me we're going to do acid for the rest of our lives every single day you could make that argument the idea for me that's hard like I said when I said I was meditated I haven't missed a day maybe you should microdose maybe we'd give you a little right now just a little spray you do microdose he's raised look at do it now now I want to think about it a little bit before it's all the would be pretty boss the Box you get the box right there

► 00:42:09

here so how often do you use your I was gonna I was going to answer that question I have a zillion answers to why I've never done drugs and none of them are of course true because we don't have access to write that stuff that we really do but my parents and my whole family and back Generations teetotalers so there was never alcohol in the house ever I never saw my parents take a drink when it was on TV it was a totally different thing it just didn't happen I didn't have any they never preached about it they never said don't drink they never said don't do drugs it just never was in the house and that statistically has a huge effect on people and then the first people I fell madly in love with you know Lenny Bruce Jimi Hendrix had been in my mind killed by drugs hmm and I kind of said oh people would that have this kind of personality when they get into drugs they sometimes have trouble and I think that maybe

► 00:43:09

being 19 years old and trying to get into show business that maybe being the sober one allowed the Dumber guy to do a little better you know is everybody else kind of get out of my way he's ever fucked up some of the time I could get other stuff done and then that starts reinforcing let me no longer be valid well there are dry mean I've never done Coke and one of the reasons why I never did Coke and I've talked about this many times my friend growing up is cousin used to sell it now watch his life fall apart they were just doing coke all the time and lost a lot of weight and looks like a vampire was very strange hung out in their attic apartment is really weird I remember thinking fuck Coke it's like like a guy I know got bit by a monster you know and was infected with something yeah the people the people that I've been on coke not pleasant not good it's not I don't and I think that's also you know one of the accusations against Trump that he's on some sort of speed you know which is why he's so inexhaustible you know and also why he has this inability to be affected by criticism terms of like he

► 00:44:09

is no reflection no shame right no shame no self-reflection and that's something that is a symptom of people that are on speed you know and this is the Adderall generation that we're living in a goddamn there's so many fucking people that are on Adderall yeah I mean it's so it's so goddamn common you know I was having this conversation the other day and someone was telling me about this guy they know who's really brilliant but he won't stop till he's got ADHD and you know he just can't stop but he won't stop talking and this not I'm waiting I'm just waiting while this person is talking to me I go he's on Adderall and they go yeah he is it's a medication I go to the No No doesn't he fucking speed that guy's on speed okay and you can call it a medication because you can buy it at the pharmacy but that fucking guys all speed all day long every day and there is a giant number of people in this country that are medicated and that are on speed all the time that's a great Andy Warhol quote which was in the 60s we thought were getting to know people but we were getting you know drugs

► 00:45:09

no there's there is definitely there is definitely a personality type that we think is an individual that actually does seem to have a tie-in with it's fucking Adderall mindset there's a speed mindset and it's a go go go get everything done more bigger faster accumulates shit I'm the fucking man I'm the fucking man like that that's a speed mindset it's a dangerous mindset it's a real weird one and it's not one that lasted itself it's not one that self deprecates it's all me me me me me I'm the shit and that's what you get out of trump I mean this is I mean there's a guy who's in a journalist who wrote a story about how he knows the very Duane Reade Pharmacy in Manhattan where Trump is getting diet pills way back in the day where he supposed to take it for like six weeks he took it for years and this guy is saying like this is what you're dealing with like many people have called the Adderall president like this is entitled it absolutely could be that he's on something that all the work

► 00:46:09

talking about this whole time is just speed yeah I mean and it gives me the energy to look remember when he was running for president like how the fuck is this guy not tired I get tired to fight or induced and them I do stand-up it's an hour 20 minutes of my own routine that I wrote myself I'm hanging out with friends I do two shows a night on my wou this motherfuckers touring flying around in Jets all over the country just in exhausted just no fucking script just goes on stage in front of everybody just rant and Rave about China the economy and build wall and well alright we're gonna go to Ohio and then off to the jet eaten Kentucky Fried Chicken and fucking flies in Ohio and he does it again I mean who the fuck at 70 has that kind of energy people on speed I don't know if it's true I might be wrong I might be wrong but it seems like it it seems like all the pieces are in place and there was a psychologist did an analysis of all the various psychological traits that people who are on and feta means have and they compared it to

► 00:47:09

and like all of them megalomania all the did various psychological characteristics inability to accept criticism you know this thinking that everyone's against them this the this this delusions of grandeur all these different things what there was a guy on on there was an apprentice who talked about him who him doing these kind of drugs it was a news story it was like a it was like an intern that we weren't going to just kind of faded away after that but I it's a it's a Nutty it's a Nutty thing Tom Arnold claims Donald Trump snorted Adderall on The Apprentice set okay well I know Tom he's crazy I love you Tom but I don't know yeah maybe he did but made Tom Arnold would say that he snorted trumped or snorted coke just to piss Trump off yeah he would say that just because I'm fucking with him getting under his skin maybe did snort at all I don't know I don't know I'd it doesn't seem like that

► 00:48:09

the kind of thing he would snort it seemed like he would pretend to get it was medicinal yeah I take a pill yeah I mean it's kind of medicinal here's the thing it will allow you to get more things done you know we had a guy in here wrote a book on Hunter Thompson and one of the things that was talking about was that he needs Adderall to write and I was going into it with them because one of the things that dirty little secret about journalism is a tremendous amount of journalists are on Adderall tremendous amount like an enormous amount like one of my friends who's a pretty legit do we know how much Adderall is going into the USA that's a good question how many Adderall prescriptions were made in 2018 let's just find that out but my friend who's a legit journalist for legit publication said you would be stunned and he goes he goes it's an enormous percentage of the exact words already they just started banging it out to I mean the like they did with them with Fenton all the Vets to children they just hang out Adderall under and what's the other one

► 00:49:09

Prozac no the other one they do for I guess it forever attention deficit disorder is another one other than Adderall is it all just a dural maybe Prozac Adderall I know Prozac Prozac was they put my neighbor's kid on Prozac Paxil fucking horrific seems low 16 million adults or prescriptions were filled 60 million adults had prescriptions filled yeah that's low and abuse it which seems low also so 16 million yeah what is that like three percent yeah yeah that seems low less than four four percent something like that yeah that was last year it did 2012 is the last vote 2012 reckon find I do not know that's a million years ago bro showing up maybe that was true for 2012 I think it probably was true for 2012 I think we live in a whole new world now and I don't think it's anywhere near 4% or 5% whatever the fuck the real number is I bet it's about 10:00 I bet it's 10% of people in this country run out or all if I

► 00:50:09

yes I bet it's around 30 million I bet it's around in there yeah I'm not yeah I wouldn't be shocked I know a bunch of people around it a bunch and you know some people tell me they have to take it that's what my favorite one is I have to take it I don't take what happens you die you just beer what happens if you don't take it it's fucking speed man you know like end a lot of the people that take it they're not healthy otherwise like they're not exercising are drinking a lot of water but not meditating they're not eating healthy foods like what do you why do you need that like what happens if you get rid of all that other stuff like cut out the shitty food cut out all the sugar start drinking water no booze let's get you exercise in three times a week let me see if you really need that Adderall shit yeah how many vitamins do you take do you take vitamins do you eat healthy are you drinking fruit juice and vegetable juice are you what kind of nutrients you taken into your system and you're wondering why you don't have any fucking energy so you just pour in jet fuel and your tank lighting the whole fucking thing on fire but and the other hand is like things

► 00:51:09

done when you take speed you know what we were talking about Hitler the other day that why wouldn't you be why wouldn't we be we were talking about who was it who were talking about was it with Fahim I don't remember but we were talking about Hitler there was a time where Hitler had come back from something who supposed to meet Mussolini and he was like physically exhausted so his doctor injected him with a combination of steroids and liquid cocaine and he was just fucking fill with energies like gimme another one and the guys like no I can't give you another second fucking give me another one and he gave me another one and then he went to Mussolini and ranted at Mussolini just fucking talk to him for five hours and Mussolini just never got a word in edgewise and apparently Mussolini's plan was to talk to hit Monroe hey man Italy wants to get the fuck out of this when I really interesting and it was crazy for five hours sweating like a pig because he was on fucking Coke he was on coke and steroids they just pumped him up with it maybe

► 00:52:09

be it's best to stay away from some drugs yes yes but I mean it's amazing how much productivity gets done because of caffeine right now what is caffeine caffeine is a very mild stimulant in terms of you know in compared to a draw or things along those lines but it is a fucking truck and it's a drug there's a goddamn drug store on every corner everyone's buying it it's in every gas station everyone's fueling up you have fuel up your morphine you know II don't I brought no I drink decaffeinated coffee which means I drink 5% of what right you know I do I can drink eight cups of coffee to makes a just like to take up I don't like the taste but I like the social stuff I like having a hot bitter thing in front of me once just have tea I have t to yeah my humble I nervously I nervously drink mmm habit like you know like some people smoke I like to have cell sir like to have decaf coffee

► 00:53:09

decaf tea or something like that like cells or two it makes me feel like I'm doing something rather than drinking water you know like I like sparkling water its water with entertainment I like sparkling water with a little lime or I got a drink here and I said great oh you know what you take decaffeinated espresso and then you pour carbonated water on top of that and then you've got bitter bubbly you're drinking a potion you want that you want a potion hmm a potion makes you feel like an adult yeah it makes going to grow this is your Kool-Aid this is an adult what exactly when you're when you're a non-drinker of alcohol you have to work very hard to look like you drink you like an adult yeah so you've never fucked with alcohol at all no wind no nothing nothing I mean tried okay I know I'm talking to someone who pays attention so you can say that there is alcohol and vanilla there's alcohol and things like that so you can't say none but none that I ever acted I never I never went to never went to to searched out it feels good I never even accidentally

► 00:54:09

never even you know fuck with me on them real well that's good that's that's surprising yeah that is surprising given the circles you travel and I would imagine eventually someone would be like enough is enough get this guy fucked up its to be funny yeah this would be really funny yeah seems like someone would have been able to fit in someone sense of humor some great lawyer knows this may be the day no I don't know if you really want to say the word will open up the box of Doom we box it to how often do you do psychedelics girl yes thank you know not that often a couple times a year oh you'll get like I mean we did mushrooms on a podcast couple months ago but that was a small dose but the tank is my friend you know I tried that out of a shit about exactly Century to have one right here yeah I have one your size I win I get a yeah I went to one of these places where you pay him x amount of money and you go home because my buddy Tim Jenison we did a movie called Tim's Vermeer we painted a Vermeer in his garage and Tim was really into that I'll do anything Tim does I just I just loved him

► 00:55:09

and so I went and you know whatever you pay a few bucks in here you go in a float in the tank and I was so ready I have a this happened so much in my life I get so ready for a major change in my life the first time I wanted to become a vegan I went out with a friend this was like in 1990 and I was a guy was making fun of brutally ripping him the fuck apart for his stupid eating you know that I said listen I want to go out with you to a restaurant just eat vegetables and I'm not going to interrupt you I'm not going to make funny you talk to me for three hours about all your Peter Singer stuff all your ethical vegetarian stuff and you convert me that's all I want you to do that was the reason I went out that was the reason I went out with him and I finished up the whole evening and I went you know I really respected your point of view until I understood it and motherfucker talked me out of doing what I wanted to do and so I got ready man

► 00:56:09

he with with the isolation tank I said this will be good he's told me about this I was going to go there sensory deprivation I'll just let my mind wander and I went in there and it was just salty and I was bumping against walls yeah yeah it's you need to get used to it it's like the meditation try meditating once you like I couldn't concentrate yeah meditate me once is usually yes yeah it's you how often you do the tank all the time I used to have one of our you're not in it now no not all times but often okay I used to have one of my house and now I just have it here but it's a very valuable tool and you meditate as well yeah I meditate I like to meditate for shows I've been doing a lot more lately but the tank is a great place to meditate as well because it's meditation squared it's meditation without any external stimulation soaking climb in there and you followed you follow breathing rules and yeah if you would do a normal what kind of meditation

► 00:57:09

when you meditate you doing that and doing what I've been doing lately is all I do is concentrate on my breath other things get in there but I just say Breathe In Breathe Out Breathe In Breathe Out breathe in breathe out and I just concentrate on a long slow rhythmic breaths and I get myself into this weird State and you know this will come in you got a fucking low front tire you got to you got to get that filled this is you need this the your inspection sticker and all the bullshit comes in but I just breathe in breathe out force it out before sit out and after 5 or 10 minutes of this I can get to a nice state where I can just keep doing it keep doing it but in the tank it's very accentuated because in the tank I don't have to think about my butt in the seat my hands on the table I don't think about anything else just I'm just lying there what you're experiencing when you talking about bumping into the walls that's just a technique think when you when you lie in it right you get in the tank first of all you need a big tank you're a giant guy

► 00:58:09

there's a lot of those little pods those are there's a barely big enough for me you know it's for guy like you you need a large one and you lie down the tank and then you put your hand on one wall and your hand on the other wall and you let the water still because it's going to be a lot of little ripples when you're floating because you're so buoyant there's a thousand pounds of Epsom salts in there and you're floating and it's easy to just kind of bounce back and forth so you put your hands there till they steady and then once the ripples going to stop then you slowly bring your hands down and then when you slowly bring your hands down you do it really slow so you don't make it any ripples

► 00:58:44

and then lay there and then you can be in the exact same position for hours and that's that's how it's a technique just you have to Center so how long do you do is their two hours is what I like doing I'll do an hour if I'm in a rush and I have a rushing to throw it is yeah I mean it's not a rush if I can't spend any more time than an hour but I have a tape recorder that's voice activated and it's velcro and so I can stick it up inside the thing so if I have an idea which I do sometimes sometimes I have this temptation fuck I got to get out of here I got to write this down I can just say it in the the tape recorder will pick it up and they've been brilliant stuff you said no nothing never used it once yeah you haven't gotten out of the tank and that satisfaction now there you know that Keith Richards thing right nobody went to sleep really he had this sound activated recorder that he got by the side of the bed and and his guitar and he went to sleep one night woke up the

► 00:59:43

next morning there on the tape recorder oh there was some voice activation in the night he played it was satisfaction my friend haven't gotten that yet no I haven't had that yet my friend works at a school in Connecticut where his kids go or Keith Richards kids go hmm and Keith Richards will ride on a bike to school with a fucking bandana on and like my friends are holy shit that's Keith Richards like he's just kind of hanging around with normal people and he said it freaks you out when you see him you like what that's fucking Keith Richards he just hangs out just like you know he's a giant Superstar but he drifts into the real world and it just freaks people out yeah it's it's I mean I only met Keith Richards in groups of people I believe that were what's really like bicycling into your yeah but still it's so it's so amazing so real so cereals he's an epic human yeah yes the voice recorder things new that's why I haven't had any new it's a new idea that I had because there's times that I did

► 01:00:43

solution to this team thing and the and the separation of America and getting more polarized that's going to be solved by Joe in the tank at some point we can count on that no now that you got the recording we're going to solve it ourselves I think we're going to solve it ourselves through just time I think as we're getting back to Pinker we're talking about Pinker earlier that he gets so much shit for saying that things are better now than ever it doesn't dismiss horrific acts that took place or terrible thing and it doesn't say that the battle is over right no I mean this is one of the things that I would push in my little microcosm push for so hard in Penn & Teller you know teller and I would have real trouble just crossing the Finish Line I would just say to him you know tell her we've done five seasons of bullshit and it went well let's go out the two of us have coffee and doughnuts and let's just say wow we did that and then push ahead for the next thing and

► 01:01:43

I would just I just think that Pinker is like that with me pinker's like saying you know human beings were doing okay we're doing okay we done some really good things now let's get back to work when most certainly doing better than ever before and I think that's in a cumulative thing it's like if I don't blow everything you think Kingdom Come which meant if we don't destroy the environment yeah if those two things it's the two enormous ifs yeah we're in very good shape they are the thing that blew my mind about Pinker in that in that book better Angels blew my mind is that there's this line that's that that been obsessing me with a cracker in Teen Angst I don't know what the world may need but I sure as hell know it starts with me and that's a wisdom I've laughed at all this shit that I've laughed at that turns out to be true for me now it just makes me smile and fills me with joy you know early part of the 20th century

► 01:02:43

these authors and artists and all these guys were saying Hemingway step we're going to stop War by writing about war and writing about how bad it was and we're going to give empathy for other people and will understand this and we're going to really with our art make an effort to make Humanity better what a jackoff bullshit thing to do I think there's no can you imagine something more that's just twiddling your dick then saying that oh I'm going to do art I'm going to write and it's going to change the wine poetry and then pinker's book says why is all this stuff get better so fast we think it may be art and it may be empathy and it turns out that all this stuff people are saying about you know we can change we can change how people see ya Warfare and how people see one another and that's what scares me so much about how some people

► 01:03:43

speak of and I think it's because I don't understand it usually when I'm against something it means I don't understand it but when they talk about cultural appropriation cultural appropriation seems to me to be the greatest thing you can possibly do to see the world through the eyes of someone who grew up differently than you even try to do that for even for us to pretend right now to be a you know white nationalist even trying to do that seems like it's a really good thing for us Trent end just to get into their head just to try to fantasize what it's like to be for instance a African-American transgender man if we try to do that we're writing a piece of art and we try to see ourselves from that point of view I'm not thought about herself see the world from that point of view that seems like nothing but healthy it seems like that takes you out of your identification well I think there's a

► 01:04:43

out of what we're calling culture appropriation that is really people trying to tell other people what to do because people enjoy telling people to can't do that anymore and getting angry at those people they enjoy it they enjoy pushing buttons people you give them a rock in a window they want to throw that rock through the window this is a natural part of being a person and if you see a girl with hoop earrings like bitch take those earrings off those are for Latinos or there's a for this so those are for that mean and the argument is so often not even based historically like the earring thing like fuck man what do you from Sumer like that's the oldest known hoop earring that's also from Babylon it's also what I don't know if this is this is not Pinker this is Noah re who who talks about when you're talking about cultural stuff how far back you going right I mean there are no tomatoes in Italy right uh sure yeah tomatoes are not indigenous to Italy Paisa came from China and potatoes are from Ireland they don't start there you know so you have to keep going back

► 01:05:43

was a great you know Paul Simon get so much shit for Graceland you know and and David Byrne get so much shit for stuff and there's this wonderful thing and David Burns book how Music Works which is a fabulous book but he doesn't ever address this picking things from other cultures ever but he talks very strongly about the African kinds of music and the influences they have from other places you know because there is not there is not a culture other than the whole world especially not now yeah you might be able to have made the argument 200 years ago there were patches thing is though the people enjoy cultures so if that is the case and everything does assimilating becomes one big gray Mass we're worried that we're going to lose Indian food right we're worried that we're going to lose I have no worry of that at all now I have no worry cuz I think that me loving son

► 01:06:43

raw even though I'm not African-American and me loving Lenny Bruce even though I'm not Urban and identifies Jewish I think that loving these kind of cultures should not be based on an accident of birth the loving thing is one thing though I think the real fear of culture Appropriations that people will take on those things as their own like there's a gentleman I'm trying to remember his name he is a famous Mexican chef but he's not Mexican but he cooks Mexican food he cooks it in Chicago Walt Bayliss is that his name something Bayless Rick Bayless Rick Bayless he this guy has an undeniable passion for Mexican Cuisine I mean he fucking loves it he has a couple different restaurants we Cooks Mexican food and he was getting protested and people were furious at him because they had just decided at one point if this guy's head like you know 30 fucking year career of being in love with Mexican Cuisine and being like a real

► 01:07:43

Dorian of Mexican Cuisine work where comes from the Region's the ingredients like where's the best ingredients where's the best places to cook these things how they do it why they did it this way and mean speaks with Incredible passion about this they were deciding that he's a white guy and he shouldn't shouldn't be able to do this shouldn't be able to sell this shouldn't be able to like do you fucking assholes like this is the guy right he's helping everyone recognize the beauty of this much maligned food when you when people think about Mexican Cuisine he is one of the rare people in Western culture that talks about it like it's five-star Cuisine so many people talk about oh I love street tacos and fucking I'm a big fan of quesadillas know this guy's talking about the very best Mexican Cuisine in the world and trying to interpret that and sell it to people and trying to turn people on to how good this food is and he had he was taking so much shit when a person that wasn't born in that the accident of birth to be there falls in love with another

► 01:08:43

culture I don't see why that isn't more beautiful yes yeah that's that's that's that's what I'm looking for that Steven Seagal yeah he moved to Japan my master before he became kind of silly he was one of the very first guys to ever teach Aikido in a dojo in Japan that wasn't Japanese I think he actually was the first I think was the first American to ever run a dojo in Japan so now okay giving me on psychedelics is very easy compared to getting me the really big Steven Seagal I mean I'm not sure I do although I do appreciate his first movie Above the Law I appreciate what he look he likes his prepositions he's a silly felt silly fella for sure he's fine many of us are but what he did do is he learned Aikido at a very very high level like undeniably and he was teaching in Japan he spoke perfect Japanese and it was a very rare guy you know now you know became a Hollywood guy and move

► 01:09:43

he's and who knows what the fuck else and became enormous you know physically got fat and you know he's kind of silly now but at one point in time that guy was as legit as it gets it's not always true Tweety Bird you don't want it I'm going to completely change the subject is if I may show you know I want to talk about when you came on my radio show with Phil plait about talked about the moon landing yeah but what I what I think is fascinating about this about clubs and stuff you know is I you know and I know I've read here and there that you you've you've gone back on a lot of that and your conspiracy stuff and so yeah but that's that's not that's what I can explain that too I don't know what I'm talking about you know this is the thing I have zero astrophysics education zero I don't know anything about whether or not that it's possible to put people on the moon I dunno fuck Ari and I dunno teams and I do now I do understand what people are bullshitting people and I think there's a

► 01:10:43

that with with a lot of the NASA stuff a lot of the older stuff in particular there was a lot of manipulation of images and putting things online that may not have actually really happen because it was press releases and there's an image of Michael Collins from like Gemini 15 that's a very clear image of him doing a simulation like in a studio with straps and harnesses and then someone from NASA or someone put that exact same image image blacked out the background and used it as a photo of them of a space week it's not real you know but they sold it as real there was some overzealous shirt like that that if you're conspiratorially minded you might say ah once once you start lying yes you know it's the area 51 and stuff you know we know they lied what motherfuckers yeah and that's the problem but what I just want to compliment you and I just also think this is really interesting you know so Joe

► 01:11:43

Logan believes is crazy shit we didn't go to the Moon I know Joe Rogan we're on it we're on a radio show together better Tada he's a good guy but that Fear Factor but in he believes this shit let's let's have them talk to someone who's real so I call Phil plait do I don't know that well right but he's the bad astronomer and he knows this shit and I say I really want you to come on my radio show and just talk to Joe Rogan about about the moon landing little Amy and Phil says oh no problem we'll just go on there we'll set him straight and I just want to warn you have your ducks in a row because Joe is really good and he goes well Jose Jose comic right yeah and that's your problem because Joe's better at talking than you Joe knows when the commercials are coming Joe knows how to make a joke and Joe Knows also how to set you up and take you down here oh no it'll be no problem I said you understand that he's smart he's a comic right yeah not an astrophysicist but you understand that he's smart

► 01:12:43

he's also you are going into his form we're going to be on radio this guy is done a lot of radio this guys talked to a lot of people so just have all your facts in line and then we're sitting there because you know you were you were on the phone and Godot was on my podcast maybe to sitting across from me and we're listening and you come in and you come in Humble and charming and sexy and with perfect timing on everything and Phil place I go like oh oh man Joe is wrong and Joe is going to fucking win

► 01:13:25

and I said I set this up so that so that it will be effective be fair my whole thing of doing this away I billboard and it was I'm going to have two guys talk from two points of view I'm not supposed to commit that I don't know if you remember but the whole show ads and I go oh by the way we did live in the moment and just try to do this final Authority thing and Phil said afterwards while he yet I said yes yeah and it's just that idea that you can't you know his idea was there's the science team that's right and then they just goofy comic and trying to get Phil plait understand that a goofy comic was not a goofy comic and I believe that the only thing that the SATs truly test is how good you'll be the comedian's comedian that kind of verbal it was a wonderful thing to listen to it was wonderful to listen to someone who I believe absolutely was

► 01:14:24

100% wrong it was just so skilled and so moral and so thoughtful and so humble you had everything going for you that I respect except it didn't happen to be right well we don't know what happened we assume that what we see is what happened we assume that with the scientists tell us was that was what happened we assume that what NASA told us was what happened when you say I know this happened right you're not always correct exactly oftentimes correct I know Kennedy got assassinated in Dallas I've seen the video I know he got assassinated Downs I don't know if Lee Harvey Oswald did it I don't know I assume he was involved it seems like he was was there are other people involved too I assume there were and one of the reasons why I assume there were was the Magic Bullet the fucking the guy who got hit with the Ricochet under the overpass do you want you to know that I made the shot with the mannlicher-carcano yeah it could be made oh that's horseshit listen I've talked about that in

► 01:15:24

in length and also I heard yours towards that yeah well there's a lot of things there's a lot of things there's there's a lot of things we could you know go over the Kennedy assassination there's a lot of things I'm not on wanted to be where neither are we good are we going to solve the polarization America or are we going to solve the Kennedy assassination or we going to solve the Boule all of them are you under all of them yeah okay there's wonder what our goals were the moon landing is a conspiracy theories dream of conspiracy theorist dream because it's got everything in place it's got this incredible technological achievement it's got these three guys that look incredibly nervous at the post-landing press conference and they look all sketched out it's got these guys that don't do interviews afterwards it's got no one ever lands on the moon again after 1973 or whatever it was it's got all these technological achievements but we never get outside of Earth's atmosphere again we're always inside of Earth's orbit there's so many beautiful things that can

► 01:16:24

bearsy theories can grasp a hold of them go buddy it's bullshit but it does happen easy fix but it doesn't mean it didn't happen there's the Van Allen radiation belts there's that we never even sent a chicken into deep space and had to come back alive there's all these things but it doesn't mean it didn't happen and the my problem was and this is you know and people said oh you know you've sold out your a shill now and like no no I'm just being honest now whereas before I wasn't being honest with myself and I wasn't being honest about the subject I do not know whether or not people went to the moon I was pretending that I knew that people didn't go to the moon and I was arguing it that way I was on a team I was on team it's bullshit we didn't go to the moon and you really can't do that accurately it can't be done you did you can say this is what's interesting this is what I find Curious this is what's weird in fact it's on a single technological achievement from 1969 that's not cheaper easier and faster to

► 01:17:24

today except going to the moon like it's one of the rare things in life still doesn't mean it didn't happen right like Occam's razor is a slippery thing because there's weird shit that happens you got to take that into account like there's no absolutes it's not one thing you can say well there is a rule and this rule must be followed and here's that rule doesn't work that way the world is made of weird stuff I'm also the the the idea there's a thing that's changed there was an article in the times about this and you might have been mentioned in it there's a playful space of conspiracy theories mmm that it's taking me a long time to understand my daughter is 14 and she talks about you know her father did a show called bullshit and she talks about how she loves conspiracy theories and this is from Paul McCartney's dead to we didn't land on the moon to all those things but she sees it

► 01:18:25

I so hard for me to understand she sees it as not impacting reality but as a playful internal intellectual exercise I don't know what's going on but there's this wonderful article in the times and you are mentioned there too but there's also another guy who does it who will do this to use a cliché accounting the better one going down the rabbit hole of conspiracy stuff playing around with the logic that almost feels like a mathematical thing or a pure philosophical thing or a or a angels dancing on the head of a pin thing and there's a quality that you have learned that my daughter has learned indirectly I think from you through other people doing this of there is a playful space we discuss how we

► 01:19:25

how we share our reality that is happening in The Conspiracy Theory art form and the conspiracy theory art form is now seeming to me to be more like rap or rock and roll or it's just a form a thing where you play around with this kind of thing and I am so literal-minded so verbal minded you know Bob Dylan's easy for me the stones are hard you know Zappa's easy 20th century classical ZZ but just Funk is hard for me and it's the same kind of thing here it's really easy for me to say we are doing the old-fashioned scientific inquiry in this is my falsifiable but there is something happening in our thinking that's really interesting that I had to have my daughter explain to me and the New York Times after I already knew

► 01:20:24

you and watched you do it well you vote you've always been a champion of science and reason right and conspiracy theories for the most part fly in the face of science and reason and if you don't want to be a buffoon nobody was hopeful this happening but It's Tricky and you don't people don't want to be a fool well I'm a professional fool I don't mind being a fool and you know being self-deprecating and being a moron is part of being a comic it's fun the The Conspiracy Theory World went South for me when I did a television show bright I did that Joe Rogan questions everything shown I spent six seven months doing this show and at the end of it I was like okay I get it this is a bunch of unfuckable white guys that's what it really is that's what I decide I said you know I had a bit about it I said you want to the one thing you don't find what you're looking for bigfoot black people are more likely to find Bigfoot than you are black guys looking for bigfoot it is a bunch of unfuckable white dudes out camping and listen to what did you hear that what is that you know it's like it's nonsense like you're wrapped

► 01:21:24

this idea that there's a mystery and there's a something there's a thing a quality but human beings where we want to uncover Secrets who want to be the person that finds out the truth because then you're miserable shitty fucking life now doesn't matter the fucking aliens are real man they're here and a ha ha ha the one of the best feelings we can get probably better than coming is that feeling of aha I understand I've gotten a revelation and we see this all the time detective shows you know share lock homes you know nothing to do with police work but there is a feeling that wouldn't it be nice if in this hour I were able to figure something out because if you want understand String Theory you're not going to do it in an hour you're not going to do it ever guys understand it even if they teach like look take it easy for your wife let's take a candle flame you never gonna understand that right ah studying that for

► 01:22:25

and there's there's an area where conspiracy theories are exercising the muscles of logic exercising the muscles of skepticism playing around with the with the Haiku of if then if then playing around with what we feel about the government and other people and stuff like that and you're playing around with all of that in kind of a semi safe Zone and even watching you just do it here where you were you bang out that stuff as they this is the stuff I question what's coming out of that poetically and I thought that's not even talked about whether we went to the moon or not which coming out of your style of inquiry on that kind of thing your style of skepticism is just fascinating and beautiful and I see the

► 01:23:24

thing as not so much a breaking down which I used to see it as a breaking down of science and reason but I see this rather a creation of a new form of poetry that's weird I don't know if my daughter just said my daughter just says you know I really like conspiracy theories and I say to her you know Paul McCartney's still alive right but you know she's 14 and your Penn jillette so she's rebelling understand that right you're a parent you know it's like

► 01:23:58

you may have just told me something really important yes to dirt down the rail line here's the thing it's like Neil Gaiman 's daughter coming in all golf doubt yeah you'll say to her I invented this you can't do this this is not the way you can rebound you can't rebelling against me like this you can't do with black hair and eye shadow you can't do it but yeah yeah well kids you know they find their own way and they want to express themselves you know they want to exert power over their world but did you see that article that you're mentioning no I did not it was it was a time not to read anything that I mentioned and I mean to I briefly do often times I'm like I try to never read anything with my name in it because it's not written for us right and I'll tell you the exact moment that happened to me that was so great it was in the 80s we were on Broadway and the Coen brothers were just starting to do movies

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you know I was really interested in him you know and I had I had like an hour free which would I was doing Stern and Letterman and Saturday Night Live and on Broadway I never had an hour free and I was a magazine like Vanity Fair something who cares with fuck what it was and it said what the Coen brothers are really like what did I do work with the Coen Brothers okay I said I'd ever read magazine going to buy this I learn a little about the Coen brothers and up to our office you know it's like the brill building you know Lorne Michaels and sit in my office open it up but the Coen Brothers like turn to that page I said if you want to know what the Coen brothers are like it's like hanging out with Penn & Teller

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and I went

► 01:25:43

what is that even real close the bag of seed put it aside and they were going on comparing him I went I have no information on this none there's no way I can access and then that moment I went oh wait a minute when it says Penn jillette in an article or in a book there's no way I can understand that maybe others can write you know so when it says in the article you know when Joe Rogan does conspiracy stuff to do you can't understand that it's like Mike Nesmith said to me the major problem with talking to Jimi Hendrix was he never heard Jimi Hendrix you never saw Jimi Hendrix on stage he couldn't and know so you are the one person that using Joe Rogan is example you know while you know kind of a proletariat kind of a kind of a does this bro culture this is Joe you can't

► 01:26:39

Stan that you have no idea what that means because you're an individual well it's also people are trying to encapsulate you just brief moments and might have seen a video or heard you talk about it being something to other people and you know something and it also you can easily categorize someone and put them in this box and now I've defined that oh I know what that is but that's gone before that's all I can out with Penn jillette yeah it's also part of your job yeah part of your job one of the things you've created is you've created something in the culture that means the New York Times can say Joe Rogan and they are people reading that know what that means but there's no way Joe Rogan can know what that now you can pretend right or you could be like Trump and get mad about it you know where the rubber hits the road with conspiracy theories right now Jeffrey Epstein oh yeah that's where the rubber hits the road where people that are not conspiratorial and Beyond it we're like what wait what the fuck is going on what all the cameras were bad

► 01:27:39

the guy was on suicide watch he tried to commit suicide and then they're like well don't do that again and then he did it like if you talk to people that have been locked up they take away everything man you been on suicide watch they fucking take away everything hmm and you find this guy's got a broken neck and he hung himself like how how did he hang himself can we see the video footage All-Star the cameras were broke I think of yourself as wicked hard it's not easy it's not easy it's not easy when you're in a jail and they told me well you should have you been to jail no no never been a joke I was only in jail overnight but that mean they if you're on suicide watch man they make it hard for you to kill yourself don't you that and if you're is that was suicide watch means yes no pocket thank you to watch you so you can't kill yourself again that's the they watch you every 30 minutes or so what the fuck was the psychologist thinking that took this guy off suicide watch literally a couple of weeks after he tried to commit suicide if someone tried to commit suicide you know not as speaking as it was a guys had friends commit suicide

► 01:28:39

they're fucking thinking about it for years man some of them they go back and forth day today some of them some of them just do yes some of them just do that but when someone does actively try it they're not going to just be fine while they're in fucking prison awaiting trial for having sex with kids it seems like Jeffrey Epstein's life was going to get really worse from what it was a few months before could be or other people's lives are going to get really worse because Jeffrey Epstein is now in jail and they're digging deep into his past and well we flew them 26 times 26 times and I eat a lot of times to fly with a guy I don't understand what the big deal is we flew in a jet we rode a bus together he was on the back of my bike do you know do you know people that know Jeffrey Epstein yes yeah yeah I do b 2 and a lot of them really was that yeah talk to him well I'm not a little bit there's many people that feel like he was an agent and that he was trying to compromise people

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and that's one of the things about this whole Lolita Island thing is that they would compromise people they would compromise people by having a bunch of young girls who are very sexy who were hired to go and flirt and maybe even have sex with people and that these people were young these girls were like 17 underage May perhaps underage some places sir perhaps not underage other places but incredibly embarrassing and you know for the people and agent compromise for whom who knows I mean there's a lot of thoughts but that's one of the things about when he got arrested the the was it the prosecutor whoever it was a cut in the deal literally was quoted as saying I was told he's above my pay grade yeah and that he was Intelligence

► 01:30:23

that's the quote really the judges think try to find that quote yeah try to find that quote yes the guy said this was when he gave him a lenient sentence many years ago well there's probably 12 or something no one seems to know how he got his money well the fucking 70 million dollar Penthouse that he had in Manhattan was given to him right given to him yeah who the fuck gives someone a 70 million dollar house well I was kind of hoping you would to me I don't have one okay if I have a bunch of Allah give you one I gotta run you gotta go now just joking I was here to get a 70 million dollar house you were told wrong yeah yeah I mean I think the guy it's I think there are look I've talked to people many times that work for intelligence agencies and there's a lot of weird shit that they do and one of the things that they do to compromise people as they get them involved in weird stuff that could be very bad for them if it comes out and then they have influence of this person and if you got a guy with a voracious sexual

► 01:31:22

appetite I mean there's a few of those fellas out there and you know hey my friend about of that are Chum out office now I'm just fucking hanging out having a good time with Jeffrey we're just flying around I mean come on man it's highly likely one of the guys that I know that knew him was also a freak like a sexual freak and I'm like okay I think I think I see a pattern here this the it's very likely that that's what was going on this guy was compromising people and probably absolutely a sex addict himself and I believe all the women would say all the horrible things that he did to them and hired them for things and had underage girls do sexual things with him it's probably true probably true he's probably a fucked-up Twisted dude but many people that are involved even in good things get compromised like there's many people that work for the CIA that were legitimate CIA operatives who wound up selling drugs this is a lot of this happens people go sideways people get involved in Shady activities that are cops there's cops that wind up doing illegal things

► 01:32:22

they signed on to be a cop to be a person's going to Serve and Protect and be involved in the community and slowly but surely they get compromised and they get involved in illegal activity and next thing you know they're corrupt that happens or happened to us earlier certainly and then sometimes people fucking suicide themselves know the people that that I know that knew him it was they weren't even aware of the CD stuff going on so I'm and of course that's going to be true too but he was gonna be a hundred percent he was also a champion of science yeah I mean bitch yeah didn't he but that's the thing about people they can be really good sure some ways and horrible in other ways this idea that people are binary or 1 or a 0 is nonsense yeah there's really good people to do Terrible Things is really terrible people that also do good things you know like look fucking Trump just pass something and no one wants to give him credit for any stuff was it gonna start he did he did wonderful stuff for kidney transplants stuff

► 01:33:22

push through well that was going to say that he absorbed all the student loans for disabled veterans fantastic I love it you know here word about it word of Praise look we should absolve student loans for fucking everyone were crippling kids were crippling the 17 18 year old kids who sign up for these fucking loans and they could compromise to the point where we have people to this day right now that are getting their Social Security money their Social Security money is getting docked because they owe student loans there at the end of the fucking road what do you do what do you do and this is a real question this is not rhetorical what do you do about the feeling of fairness the people that work their way through college

► 01:34:03

waiting tables that's a good point working really hard and then they do we just say their feelings which I think is valid which is yeah yeah you got fucked on this but let's help someone else out what do I get compassion here's the guys you know there are people that worked really hard to not have student loans yes and there are people that took them there has to be somebody who took them forever lessly a hundred percent I think quite a few and I think it's also we also should pay attention to the human mind and the development of human mind of the frontal cortex and the frontal lobe does not develop properly until you're 25 years old right so someone somewhere in that Russia - for you is definitely not 17 Stephanie not 18 so you're taking all these fucking loans you you can't be trusted with money or your future or thinking about what the fuck you're doing in terms of like taking on a debt of Honor has a thousand don't we have to and this also ties in with this

► 01:35:02

actual stuff as well don't we have to decide when someone's adult and then give them that respect yes we have I say you're 18 years old we can't control what decisions you make yes yes and what is that you're going to because I think 25 is too old I think 25 is too old as well but I think what we're saying is I mean look there's a lot of 18 year old people that make very good moral decisions yes and we should we should praise that here's the problem with the student loan thing in terms of the it's the only loans that you never get exonerated from

► 01:35:37

you can get bankruptcy right and you can get exonerated you can you could escape the loans of credit cards the debt of mortgages you can escape a bad business collapsing and owing millions and whatever you get you could Escape that through bankruptcy you cannot do that with student loans it's a corrupt system you take a child who's trying to learn a trade or trying to learn a profession and you acquire insane debt that's going to track you and crippled you for the rest of your life and no matter what happens to you you owe that money but also you're taking your colleges out of the free market to buy giving those by giving those loans easily yes and by having government help yes I'm also are also taking away the free market yes because you know we found out that when you put the free market in like LASIK surgery when insurance doesn't cover it it gets Wicked cheap you know and

► 01:36:37

colleges had to be paid as people went without Easy Loans to get and of colleges did not get government money they might be Wicked cheaper I think they will be there will be really really expensive I think six yes crazy expensive I think the real solution is and treating education like a thing that's going to make our society better and and think of it as the same way we think about the fire department same way you think about Police Department that I mean when you read the paper there's always one whole thing about college is getting too expensive and people can't go to Canada and then you turn 20 Pages later in the paper and there's an article about how online learning is going to happen is happening and all this stuff is going to happen do you think that that idea of college is going to hold up for another 10 years I think there's an experience that people usually go away I did but I went to college in my town I went to UMass Boston and I really only went because I

► 01:37:37

I want to be a loser it was really all it was I was doing martial arts and fighting and traveling all over the world or all the country round there and and thinking about doing stand-up at the time as well and then transitioning to doing stand-up while is also still taking classes I was learning nothing it was a complete waste of time I was only doing it so I could say yeah taking classes at UMass Boston barely paying attention barely showing up and it was just a thing that I didn't want to tell people that I wasn't going to college like that was the number one reason why I did it but I but that was I had a unique life from the time I was you know graduating from high school to the time I started doing stand-up I was obsessed with martial arts and competing and that's all I wanted to do is make the Olympic team for Taekwondo that's what I was my goal

► 01:38:23

what I was trying to do so I wasn't a normal person I wasn't like I wasn't going to go to Ohio and fucking travel over there and take a full course load and not be able to pursue what I wanted what I wanted to do was also you've got a window I fed ically yeah politically it's a fairly and there's no there was no scholarships for Taekwondo Xin doesn't it didn't exist and the only other option was the Army there was a dude his name is Clay Barbara's really talented guy was a fighter who was on the US team had one point in time I think and he was competing through the Army like they had subsidized his training somehow or another and I was thinking maybe I should join the Army like those the other the only other thing that I was thinking about doing but for people I think there's a thing about getting away from your parents getting away from them getting away from their influence being wild and crazy and be with a bunch of other kids and trying to find yourself I think that comes from traveling to a place and going to college and I think there's there's some benefit in that I have friends that have had great

► 01:39:23

in that sort of transformative experience of being on a campus a physical campus in a place that's outside of their Hometown where it gives them this new experience where they get to trying to reinvent them still got about that yeah being able to be someone else yeah I wonder I wonder if all of that why are we giving that a four-year period why isn't that a whole lives you know it could be and should be and isn't that the way that's going to change because people aren't having jobs with the whole life anymore and by the way the liberal arts education was never supposed to teach people to trade it was always supposed to make it so that young men could talk in parties yeah that was yeah we can have the same cultural thing we can talk about Shakespeare we can talk about this we can talk about that but none of this was meant to give people jobs well it's so rigid right you get out of high school high schools is torturous Affair where you're being a square peg they're trying to shove into a round hole then you get out and then they fly off to wherever the fuck you're going to go to school

► 01:40:23

and you go there and you're forced with this overbearing workload of school and and then social things you're trying to figure out what's okay and what's not okay now where's a safe space and am I what am I allowed to say this and am I allowed to say that and what are the new rules now for this new generation and where are we really Gonna Change the World and then also when you're out in the world and you realize that fucking money that you spent or that loan that you got is not getting you a job in you're fucked and you can't get a job and you're also massively in debt and severely depressed and trying to figure out your future I mean then you go on adderal we're setting people up or setting people up for a horrible failure I am with Bernie Sanders in that I think education should be free and I don't think that's a bad thing I think water in it I think you should have to earn it how about if education is really cheap like everything else is getting cheaper well I mean TVs are really cheap I think we could live for it we catch more expensive I think we can pay for it with taxes or maybe more

► 01:41:23

Mitchell's could pay for it maybe the individuals because she but if it made sense if it made sense yeah I mean if you want to learn something now we know this very well if you want to learn anything now you can get it for free on the web you definitely can't do not even anything I mean other than physical things there's a lot of physical things that you need to be taught by coach I think there's a lot of things you can learn online and even the physical things you can get a big chunk of it from online I mean what what I mean let's let's talk about all the matters okay let's talk about juggling you know I grew up as a juggler when you were doing the Taekwondo I was juggling all the time that's all I did and that was my whole life was juggling and what happened was with the internet juggling gut tremendously better because people could watch videos of things they knew were possible and get better if juggling get better physics certainly Kim it seems like you can take a course at any college online and if you sincerely want to learn you know

► 01:42:23

I don't know if we need to have this what is what is the term called when the when the Amish take their one year of Rumpelstiltskin especially Rumspringa I'm spring I don't think we need a nationally tax subsidized drum Spring right every person in the country I don't think that it is right yeah you go to college but will you just described yeah you did it yeah it seems like live your fucking life there isn't this four-year magic period or this two-year magic period and go out and learn the stuff you want to learn I mean you know we both have children and they'll be talking about going to college and of course my but not of course but my wife will push very hard for college and my thinking is anything they want to learn they can they can just learn it yeah you know by the way this was also true with just the libraries in local towns it's just more true now it's even easier now you know I can't imagine

► 01:43:23

growing up where my son can type in Lenny Bruce and it all just pops up right I mean that was an amazing store order it order it yeah well they didn't grab and Griffin's music store in Greenfield Massachusetts did not have the Carnegie Hall concert right there that's an order all right Frank Zappa I'm back of one of his records mensches Lenny Bruce and he's on Sergeant Pepper I guess I should learn about him Lenny bright that down that's how I learned about Terence McKenna I learned about Terrence McKenna from listening to a Bill Hicks record yeah I was like who's this McKenna and what's a heroic dose and and Frank Zappa one of his records I forget which it is I think it's freak out but it might be absolutely free says on the back do not listen to this song until you've read Franz Kafka in the penal comedy I got the record opened it up it said that I listened to one side got to that song got on my bike rode down to the Greenfield Public

► 01:44:23

very Kafka I got this written down Kafka in the penal colony sat there read it went back listen to the record my entire education starts with Mike Nesmith of the monkeys who said listen to Zappa listen to Hendricks from Zappa to Lenny Bruce from Lenny Bruce to the whole world and I believe that that is available to everybody all the time I mean I don't know as I would say taxpayers should pay for college I think I would say do we need college isn't that fading away I think there's a real benefit to being in a classroom with a brilliant Professor yeah I think there is but we're also seeing would TED Talks which I know a jive but there is a there's a lot more you know you know their job if they could be lot of Jive TED Talks there's some Jive tedtalk yeah but what I'm saying is

► 01:45:16

I went to one of the first Ted conferences and got to hear you know all these credible people speaking it was mind-blowing and I wasn't College age I was you know I was whatever I was 45 or something 40 and it was it was an amazing Spirit Jonas Salk you know I sat and listened to Jonas Salk talk iíve been in a room with brilliant people speaking and its really really great but I think we can we can deliver that cheaper and that's the side of Bernie Sanders I want to talk about it's not can we give endless amounts of money these fucking people on college campuses can we pay them all the money in the world to take our children and give them something to do in between smoking dope could we be rather just say can't we make this experience cheap enough so that anybody can go and experience it why don't you why why is it possible for

► 01:46:16

you for a few bucks to go and be in a room with a brilliant person I think that would be a thing that would be beneficial to almost anybody at any point in time instead of the rigid structure of like you know this is you know you have to get all this work done by x amount of time that's the other thing that happens the kids to their taught about having no sleep and about beating your body up and about cramming and about getting all this work done in a short period of time there really were really preparing them for a horrible job and all this shit that doesn't work you know all that weird that weird kind of hazing shit that we do for medical professionals you're going to work for you ain't never weren't saying it's terrible for the patient if we're bad for everybody yeah you know so might and you just made the argument about the frontal cortex and you're not really ready to 25 he wanted the huge advantages I had in my life was a shitty shitty education horrible education you know I went to a bad bad bad Public School

► 01:47:16

but had an influx of hippies from UMass that came in and experimented on us so we had no education whatsoever I graduated from high school and a plea bargain I had very good SAT so I have scholarships to wherever I wanted to go but I chose not to because I misunderstood Bob Dylan I didn't know he was lying so I went and hop trains and hitchhiked around and with homeless for a couple years and I never Read Moby Dick till I was 45 thank you if I'd read Moby-Dick when I was supposed to would call the Jai Jai wouldn't have gotten it but I was able to get it at the right age and now it's my favorite book because I was ready for it you know there's so many things that are on the curriculum that are very very important maybe not that day I think there's also an issue with people not thinking of Education in terms of like that it's a lifetime for sure it's not something that you graduate from college then you're done we really should be educating ourselves

► 01:48:16

throughout life is short and not just accidentally or incidentally by experiences we should do it because there's things that we pursue that are interesting and now is one of the greatest times ever to do that because of audio books you can do it while you're in the car you could do it while you're on the train you can get educated and you could also they're doing this weird connecting thing where I have not experimented with this but I'd love to where people take courses online and then find people who are also taking courses online in their communities and then meet it like a fucking Starbucks to discuss what happened before in the class which is mind-blowing that that can happen so you can take you know one of my huge I mean one of the things I wanted to do is I wanted to learn to play jazz on delete play upright bass that's going to put 45 and I learned to play upright Bebop base passably huge accomplishment and now I really want to learn a language you know so I was looking a little big size

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good maybe there's a government watch list I'm not on so I should learn Arabic that was my thing is don't you think that that ticks all the boxes that's going to give me everything if I if I just learn Arabic so I started looking into how I can learn how I can learn Arabic and it's amazing the kind of network that's developing all over the world to be able to learn anything so my argument with you on on the on the Bernie thing of paying for everybody's college is I think we can get college so fucking cheap you can go to college your whole life well I don't think that's a bad idea you know if it's possible to get calls that cheap but I don't want Professor to be poor I mean I think one of the real problems we have a budget with public education is that people don't want to be a teacher because Peter teachers don't get paid much sure but there's a there's a way there's a I would say that's government intervention that's

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that I would say if you got many interventions keeping the salary low I think so really I really think so because I think that we're not having enough of the of the of the of a competition and stuff there I mean you know you you would pay good money to be in a room with Steven Pinker you know show and I think that locally this is always a problem that I never figured out you know when I was in Greenfield Massachusetts town of 20,000 I would say to all the other by other high school students I would say you know if we didn't give our money to The Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Dylan and all these other bands we could pool our money together and have a really good local band we could have a great band right here in town you know and I think that if you thought of Education that way can't we get in our little area really great teachers who can teach this stuff and might be pretty boss well it would be amazing if we could spread

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location right through any any method whatever we could do we get encourage people to be more educated but I think that one of the best ways to do it really is just like this a lot of podcasts that are educating people there's a lot of information that you can get not more entertaining but it's it what we're getting is with there's more information available now than ever before I think it's very different than what college is traditionally college is a thing where you go and it's a rite of passage it's like and we don't have those in this world and I think we could do with them I think we could do with these rights of particularly for young men going to maybe his case for young women obviously I never was one but when you're a young man there's this transitionary period where you're a boy and then all of a sudden I'm a man yet like what am I a man shortly a lot of a lot of cultures religions have done that well getting me out of that certificate and getting your diploma holy shit I graduated from fucking University I'm a man now I am a grown-up I have a

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degree I'm a woman now I have a degree I'm an adult and you're obviously you know I'm seeing this you know it's okay to speak with an accent it's not okay to here with one I'm hearing that from someone who spent an awful lot of time explaining to myself and others why I didn't go to college you know you wanted to show you weren't a loser I didn't have that I didn't say I went to Ringling Brothers Barnum Bailey Greatest Show on Earth clown college you don't even know if you want to make sure you don't get respect that's where you go well I'd say I talk about it is because I want people to really know where my head was at I don't want to like glorified oh no that's what I was saying I went without any right of passage at all right you know and the closest I had to right of passage was earning my living well the trial shoot you were also you were on a different Pursuit but your Pursuit was the Carny Pursuit and you enjoyed that I mean there was like a you how to lust for it

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you know and it obviously worked out well did okay listen do you really have to bail it too because it has to occur around now yeah okay all right what are you doing you just hanging out no I'm gonna go do you watch this show up Perpetual Grace limited no never heard of it okay what is it did you watch the show Patriot nope okay the best shows I have seen as a fiction television yes okay yes not the Patriot not Mel Gibson was show called wasted on Patriot is on Amazon Prime and what they used to be like 20 shows yeah you knew all of them now this Millions it's impossible so I am going to meet and talk to the guy who created all of those things oh and there it is on the actual Grace yeah Perpetual Grace there it is okay and I know that dude was that dude's name it's Ben Kingsley that's right and then that's just

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me Simpson and that got of the left is Jimmy Simpson yesterday there guys great I never knew who that guy is he's just always awesome what was he and recently it was in something really good world that's right Western World Steve Conrad is the guy who writes directs produces creates these shows and I he happens to be in town and I'm going to talk to him for my podcast which is Penn's Sunday School going to go to another studio and talk to him and I'd already set up the time so nice that can't be changed but I love that Amazon's doing all these different shows the getting into the stand-up comedy world now to yeah crazy yeah huge Arrangements you had a folders with so many play this so much stuff but there's so many places to put that stuff yeah beautiful and wow what a great time we've got to do this more often we got to do this more often this is the first time we've done it how is that possible this podcast is almost 10 years old yeah is the first time you've been on crazy and also because people yell at me that's when Twitter thing go talk to Joe Rogan you asshole

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is how fast times going well I could your radio show I didn't have a podcast there's more than 10 years ago a fucking crazy crazy flying let's promise you this once a year can we do that at least let's do it okay thank you sir appreciate you thank you bye everybody

► 01:55:31

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at your favorite local store today Heineken 00 now you can now you can go on with your life because this podcast over thank you so much for tuning in we appreciate you much love to everybody and big kiss to you