#1385 - Paul Stamets

Nov 15, 2019

Paul Stamets is a mycologist, author and advocate of bioremediation and medicinal fungi. Check out http://www.fungi.com/

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Bert on Earth he's amazing he's an awesome guy he's fantastic to talk to and Incredibly fascinating please give it up for Paul stamets The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day hello Paul it's happening how are you sir very well how are you and you have newfangled mushroom hat these are surprisingly durable so think about these mushroom hat

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it's there that you would think oh it's going to fall apart in your fingers but no it's got like it's quite pliable it's quite pliable and known as German felt and this allowed the Iceman Nazi to be able to travel into the Alps it was a fire starter mushroom really and this R actually revolutionize Warfare because it help Flint spark guns ignite the gunpowder really so I'ma Do and it comes from a birch polypore mushroom which is a subject of much of our research these days

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now when this grows in the wild of what is it look like because this is you've fashioned it into this hat was I had someone fashion some latest looks like yeah some ladies and transylvanians yeah yeah it's called foam useful materials it allowed for the portability of fire there's no doubt we all came from Africa I went North and we discovered winter this loud for fire to be carried for days and so your clan was absolutely dependent on fire starting in order to survive the winter and this mushroom allowed and enabled

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old people to survive wow it's very light is it edible excellent question Hippocrates first described it in 400 BCE As a treat as an anti-inflammatory so inti's yes but that's very very tough when you put it in Ash and water I delaminates into mycelium and so some ladies in Transylvania still make these and as a fabric that you pulled that mushroom there will become 1 Hat

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or maybe more because it just keeps on the elongating and it's made of mycelium and so explain the process how would you take this slab of mushroom that I have that looks like sort of like an enormous Hershey's kiss and then you would put that in water with Ash from a fire from a fire at what I asked what does that because this highly alkaline and then it helps it separated because the delaminate and literally you start pulling us and it's a fabric that keep on felting and so was called

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German Felton it's been used for literally thousands of years and beekeepers actually use this for a smoking hives we could but it would be kind of would be kind of bizarre we could do it flick a Bic and you'd burn up one of these things is there's a it's just amazing how much this is a fuse and one spark on this you know can ignite this entire thing over 15 20 minutes really yeah and so because

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there's use it for a smoke so if I lift this right now with this lighter not that it's not that the that the the powder what so you this the ash the powder powder - and then the water and then how does it flattened out and become with the because it's soaks up and mycelium makes mushrooms mushrooms make mycelium and so when you soak this and then it gets soggy and then it tenderizes and then you start breaking it and pulling it apart this is actually probably first discovered because our ancestors

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Esther's notice when insects were born to the smush room yeah it's like the unprocessed version of it this is so this is what it's like on one side well we just made it into a little tall table thing but it's the same thing basically so is this stitch together how they make it like this actually is it says using wood glue and but that's all the natural colors nothing has been added to it and these and so they just pull it apart pull it apart and eventually number flat yeah I really want to make a coat I'm run this my goals have somebody make a coat what it tear easily

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amazingly strong tensile fabric it's it absorbs water but you have to be careful someone smoking a joint or near a fire or smoking a cigarette it happened to me I got a big hole in one of mine and I was smelling the smoke my head my head was on fire more more than once how many folks are out there wearing mushroom hats these days just a few hundred and we've been trying to actually keep the industry Alive by just inundating

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NG the there was a like 25 or 30 of these hat makers in Transylvania 10-15 years ago then it shrunk down to four or five and a friend of mine David Summerland visited and said Paul this this hat making technology is on the verge of Extinction and so we just sort of inundated them with orders in order to build the industry keep it alive so how could someone contribute to that if they wanted to have people that are listening to this how could they buy one of these hats well if you go to my facebook.com slash Paul stamets things name

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Mako actually you know squatted on my page to sell the hats and more power to them so okay yeah cool interesting but this hat this mushroom has figuring they'd be very prominently important for saving bees and that's where our research has been astonishingly interesting lately where is the thing that you brought in what is that what this is this is a so to get some context

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ooh this you know I think some indistinctly mushrooms plants animals become important because of plurality a multiplicity of benefits this is one example not only revolutionized Warfare not only allowed for the portability of fire for us to save ourselves in the coldness and we migrated into Europe from Africa not only to be keeps users for smoking but fly fishermen use it also for drawing flies but we have found that this mushroom is extremely powerful for reducing viruses that harm be

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and and we are it's been described today and CNN be insect apocalypse 40% of be of insects are under threat this just came out and this is really an all hands on deck moment but I'm optimistic because I think we can find solutions in nature so with my colleagues and when I was here before I talk to my work or the bioshield about defense program and these would conchs are very strong and antiviral properties against

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flu viruses and herpes Etc I use these ideas and actually had a waking dream and I realized that the bees were being infected by mites with viruses and the deformed Wing virus in particular is the worst virus and so I contacted Washington State University we started doing some research and I'm really really happy because I love Skeptics who become my supporters we published in nature only 7%

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of the Articles submitted the nature get published the nature publication ecosystem to this day are articles the top 1% of all articles ever published in nature publication ecosystem now that's phenomenal because that's the most credible scientific journal in the world it is right that extracts of polypore mushroom mycelium reduce viruses and honey bees and the this mushroom the Amadou reduces the deformed Wing virus 800 times the one with one treatment

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aunt in and then the reishi mushroom mycelium reduces the lake Sinai virus more than 45,000 to 1 now these are woodcock's of growing trees and we all grew up with Winnie the Pooh but no one made the connection before me apparently that bees are attracted to rotted wood because of immunological benefit so Amadou and reishi mushrooms we found that we published in this article that high significance and

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I think the reason why this article is not top 1% of all nature articles is that I've been able to present the theory with proof now that a natural product can have a broader bioshield of benefits than a pure pharmaceutical up to this time there's been no agents to produce viruses and bees now the deformed Wing virus is being vectored by the varroa Mite came in 1984 and injects viruses in the bees and so it's like a dirty syringe and these viruses

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Billet 8 the bees and shorten their their ability to fly now look at that poor bumblebee oh wow that's crazy I mean that I have that is so sad because that mobile be can't fly now bees can pollinate up to a thousand flowers a day and the average flight time of like honeybees was used to be nine days a thousand flowers a day every almond you eat was visited by a bee so one be can pollinate a thousand flowers a day nine days was our pollination flight time now has been reached shortened to four days so we lost

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by 50% and the CNN article that we just showed in China now their hand pollinating flowers you know paintbrushes paint of apples yeah apples cherries almonds strawberry because it made out of bees because the absence of be so it's really it's all hands on deck this is you know I'm really optimistic about the future because we have solutions in nature that we can now amplify and be able to deploy

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and so one of my inventions and I'm giving these away the 10,000 of these for free I've come up with a citizen scientist Beefeater that puts these extracts into sugar water and we have a sign-up sheet up this office for free says fungi a.com slash bees and we're going to give away the first 10,000 of these and this basically allows citizen scientists to help wild bees

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because while bees were going about 80 percent of the benefits if you scroll down there's a really we just got the CGI done if you go all the way down and then click on the click on that video and we just so here's the beef eater this is available on YouTube folks it says be mushroomed feeder be mushroomed all one word and then feeder yeah and now watch that's the bees visiting and they're taking the sugar sugar water how much they're sucking out of it there's a little greedy bastards and that's crazy

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how it goes away so quickly and this is a maze and bees are better at navigating mazes and so you can see the bees going in and out my grandson was afraid of bees was really fascinated by this I I got him to do this and so these are something that we're going to make these available all over and that I want to create a vertical Gardens and apartment buildings could easily fly up 200 feet you create ladders and ecological ladders and then this is why the citizen scientists all over the world can take action to be able to help beasts from

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collapsing and then you station these in neighborhoods for bumblebees for other types of bees and then we have it with a Wi-Fi enabled device with solar panels and then we upload into the cloud all this data about bee pollination visits well create a metric on the Baseline of bee pollination services so if you see a bees that are declining in suddenly below a Baseline and Oklahoma two years ago 84% of the

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she died now think if you're a cattle rancher and you lost 84 percent of your cattle so the idea is to help bees immune system and the if we create baselines with beefeaters upload the data and this becomes a new form of Internet because they have Wi-Fi ability so it says distributed Network as well but they where is the Wi-Fi on that well we don't have this is in development right now we're working with a very very large computer company who's making all the instrumentation and they're in the big data so

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we have a solar panel going in here we have blue LED lights good bees are attracted to Blue Light and they'll count the number of bees going in and out and said bees are only find that daytime we don't need a battery and so the solar power will then upload the data into the cloud they will create Mega data sets and then we can look in Africa Indonesia how's it going to upload them to the cloud was it using as it used to LT LTE also seems like a cellular cellular system or low frequency long range

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communication systems week we help can we contribute is there's a way that this podcast can help a lot is this I want to enable people with solutions that they can teach their children the importance of natural systems and they can take action this seems like a great one I mean I love this idea I couldn't awesome I can afford to give away 10,000 itok to this computer company that everybody knows but they asked me not to use her name and they ask how many do we need I said about 10 billion the billion billion

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and because this but I will do up to my capacity and then I'm hoping that you know we're going to give these away for free and then eventually will create networks of hubs where I have now 40 patents on this and helping be survive from these extracts but not in Indonesia not in India not in Africa not in China not in Japan I've open source of for most of the world I'm basically commercial I'm going to commercialize it so the halves can help the Have Nots mmm

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I think a lot of people want to help and if you were thinking about different ways of doing this I'm open to ideas but the idea is to get maybe one person to sponsor 10 other people they have a distributed Network their own social media Community where they end up we getting schools we will open source the code for 3D printers so that's really important for schools so what the code is going to be open source but then if somebody want to make millions of these and sell them of course you know

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I wouldn't be happy without they have to work with me but individually we can Empower individuals with and schools to have the open source 3D printing codes we just have to make it trendy to have one of these in your house like look I'm helping I'm helping the bees if we just did that it would really make a big difference I know that's a gross way to look at it but my grant Works my grandson Kai is a perfect example he was shuddering and fear being coming near to this and I was my friend dr. Steve Shepherd entomologist taught me something about

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I didn't know bees are moving so fast and we look like we're moving slow but if we you move really slow the bees think you're a statue and so the idea of and some of my grandson and like I said look at this and you can see underneath you can see the bees going in and out I said to move really slow and then he got fascinated watching the bees they overcame his fear of bees it was excited that he's helping be survive now we've created something intergenerationally and saving the bees as

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the number would one Bridge concept between conservatives and liberals everyone wants to save the be so that's number one it's a number one Bridge issue between mending the fence so to speak Cross of the political and social divide everybody wants to save the bees so this is something this an actionable solution and the you know the scientific data out there is pretty disturbing you know 75% of flying insects and the past 27 years and report from Germany that just came out have

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appeared now many of your listeners are out in the country you know I grew up in the country remember all the bug splatter used to have against your windshield you don't see that anymore because the insects are dying because exposure to pesticides monoculture when you have monoculture you have what's called pollination deserts when you have lots of biodiversity lots of plants and and diversity the plants are pollinating at different times of the season when you do to a monoculture all the

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ants like almonds all produce flowers all at once and then there's no pollen available so the immune system of the bees do to factory farming loss of habitat deforestation by phosphates you know heavy metals pollution all those things are cofactors but the nail in the coffin is by far these viruses and so even logically empowering and supporting the immune system of bees then gives the bees the opportunity of the ability to be able to survive longer

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do more pollination is there a specific source of these viruses that they can isolate is a these a new thing as well actually there's a there's a slide that just shows the pandemic spread of these viruses throughout the world that came from Asia and it's now a global pandemic all B's in the world are all infected with these viruses because when they infected honeybee for instance visits a flower it leaves viral particles in the flour and the flour and then a wild bumblebee Comes This is it it becomes infected

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mmm so there is a unfortunate and I use the word Perfect Storm it said terrible storm of cofactors and because you know 80% of the benefit the farmers receive is from wild bees right but we can't count them you know I have beehives and and what happened to colony collapse you go out on Monday the bees are happy got on Thursday they're all gone I mean it's really it's that quick that quick and it's not like there's hundreds of dead bees around your beehive they're just gone

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there could be hundreds of pounds of honey and the beaze you know that they're gone so they go off somewhere to the die what happens is because the newly hatched bees are called nurse bees and the nurse bees take care of the baby bees but when the colony senses of none of pollen and food to support The Brood and the colony the nurse bees are prematurely recruited to go out and find pollen so they abandoned the babies and then the varroa mites are

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they're good to go on uncontrolled and they start injecting viruses and so there are other cofactors just like when you get an infection from a viral infection bacterial infections and so there's a there's a Cascade of opportunistic infections as I mean Immunology Stu creased because these viruses so isn't there a contributing factor that had to do with cell phones as well I actually I'm really glad you brought that up this is a contributing factor

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I have not seen convincing evidence as a hypothesis that's not fully flushed out there are some people quite adamant and their belief in this but I'm driven by science and data I can the The rhythms of the frequency of the high of cell phones is an argument that's made is is not in the same cosine wave of the wavelengths that we experience in nature and so this is disruptive I understand that

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I'm still on the fence I'd like to see really strong data and scientific evidence of that but it's a hypothesis that needs to be tested that's why we're looking also at low frequency long-range communication systems hmm I you know I think I told you this story if I didn't apologize when we were on Fear Factor we had a beast on we had to cover these people and bees and a local bee Colony flew in to check out what was going on and

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those bees and the bees that were brought there met in the sky and worked it out and The Beekeeper told us okay we have to shut down and everybody's got a back out of here so we had to shut down everything in back out for like about an hour at least a half hour whether these bees communicated with each other so they're flying a giant swarm of them flying in the eye and the in the are trying to figure out why hey what are you guys here for what are you doing why are you in our neighborhood like all we're not moving in or just filming a TV show like they had to work it out that is so unusual

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usual was really weird that's extraordinary yeah so when a new Queen split from a hive you know Colony they then take a big group of them with them so it's all about protecting the queen I still understand how they worked it out there was no fight to the death there's no nothing they just sort of worked it out the other bees took off and the bees that were there came back to their height their little Colony yeah that's it there's a lot of businesses also well that's glad you mentioned that because there's also speaks to what's called B drift and so when we publish

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article in nature scientific reports actually I think the data is understated because 10 to up to 20% of bees will Drift from one colony to another so we had treatment colonies and we had treated colonies well because 10 to 20% of the bees in the treated colonies went to the control colonies we actually diluted the differential because we had cross you know movement of control bees and Bee Hive versus treated

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bees and so when we actually I think another some of my other co-authors thinks we actually have understated the data but when you look at the P values of significance you know the extraordinary p is less than point zero zero nine and that for scientists is an extraordinarily significant data set that is clearly showing the evidence that these extracts help the immunity of bees and help them be able to survive and and do a better job that's awesome and it's crazy that it's just a natural mushroom but it

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I sense what you're saying that they built their beehives in these rotting trees knowing that these fungi were there somehow or another being attracted to it you know the I like to save the first five seconds that I got the first patent award my ego did swell and then 10 seconds later I said are you friggin kidding we're neanderthals of nuclear weapons how could I be the first one to have discovered that B's benefit from mycelium immunologically but there is no what's called prior art there's no evidence and I mean think of

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of that we have the intelligence of nature underneath our feet and this is something we need to tap into and the fact that we can show a natural product you know if you had HPV HIV and you went to a doctor 12 days after having one treatment of these extracts and your virus has dropped 45 thousand to one any physician would say wow you're doing really well and this is would be able to see them now we've been trying to find What's called the mode of action how are these viruses actually

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reduced putative Lee our strongest hypothesis now is as providing essential nutrients that are important for the immune system to activate Gene sequences then our that attacked the viruses and give more host defensive immunity protection of a further infection now does this work with humans as well like chaga supposed to be good for your immune system right well it says this is a great convergence so traditional Chinese medicine and European medicine medicine from India

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Enos peoples all over the world have been using these mushrooms is that now we're finding scientific evidence that folkloric Lee the reputation of chaga of reishi of these mushrooms helping the immunity of humans this is translational medicine so but bees is an animal clinical study these have been stated as being besides foresaw fella the second most well studied animal in the world this is a animal clinical study past digestion past was called the cytochrome

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the pathway which is your detoxification pathway mostly in our liver all animals use the cytochrome p450 pathway to break down toxins and it's past the microbiome into the blood so this is actually this is an animal clinical study and I think as a Gateway for us to take this as credible evidence that natural products can be more useful and offer a broader bioshield of benefits than pure Pharmaceuticals that go after one molecule of with one target one set of receptors the archaeological field

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had developed in the complexity of nature this is what our foods are this is where you were in concept biomolecular communication with the ecosystem we we've evolved in this complex molecular environment and so our immune systems are up regulated through multiple stimuli and that's why I think these extracts because of their complexity they build upon the complexity of natural systems and help our immune system so you have hope that this is something that we could eventually see being like a peer-reviewed proven thing for human beings as well

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absolutely I do believe that's on the new event horizon there's a lot of researchers now this them closer there is I believe is on the near Event Horizon is something that we're going to see more and more there's lots of clinical studies I bought for Physicians is not no branding no sound like have anything that's why popular website called mushroom references.com I operate specifically for Physicians Physicians I just spoke at Singularity University Stanford Medical School in front of a thousand Physicians I tried to

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Bridge of The credibility of the science for Physicians who are just not educated yet because they don't have the resources or the time so mushroom references not calm you can go to that website is got hundreds of references that then you can put in any you know symptom or species Etc and you'd be able to find the peer-reviewed references there's about 30 references for instance on psilocybin right now which is an area of research that I'm particularly focused on

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now there was for a long time a stigma associated with anything that had anything to do with mushrooms particularly because of psychedelic mushrooms is that is that alleviated I know the John Hopkins study on psilocybin as shown some pretty incredible benefits and there's a lot of people now that are starting to look to it for treatment for people with PTSD or addiction issues has that become more mainstream in your experience it's

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there's a vast tidal change in medical science there's a slide these are just a few of the University's right now that I've been approved by the FDA and other agencies for human clinical studies on psilocybin wow so we work in Harvard stand yeah Purdue pain Toronto University of Toronto that's amazing so that's only a few of them I actually could put a Department of Veterans Affairs that's very interesting

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thing as well right if I could put up 20 more but you couldn't read them because I had to be able to just to be able so this this is a huge shift and the clinical studies are coming out for as you know PTSD in particular has been extremely useful but one of them that came out Johns Hopkins for breaking tobacco addiction 15 patients small clinical studies to statistically significant 10 out of 15 people after one or two heroic dose is a soul Simon 12 months later had not smoked it

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right wow so I mean to break tobacco addiction was one of the most addictive substances on this planet is phenomenal that's incredible in the other research for PTSD depression I'm really excited about cognition creativity I think we can there's a lot of smart people out there a lot of smart people listening to your podcast I think the idea of micro dosing and being able to increase our ability of cognition and creativity to come up with a solution

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lucian's that can get it out up get us out of this mess just think of that we had hundreds of millions of people thinking about Solutions like I've come up with the solve some of the environmental challenges we have today for food biosecurity the loss of bees is a threat to our national security is think about the threat to our economy so this micro dosing I think has enormous potential as well and when you think about the one of the issues I see right now with a clinical studies is like almost is too good to be

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true all right the statistically significant great universities great science published in peer-reviewed journals the top of their game but they these mushrooms have so many benefits for fighting dementia potentially Alzheimer's Johns Hopkins has an Alzheimer clinical study ongoing currently for a dose of psilocybin to see if it helps pretty Alzheimer's patients and not go into full-blown Alzheimer's there's so many different

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benefits potentially it's almost like a chaos of data how it sounds too good to be true so my my team and pimco's an MD from British Columbia we've been working with people and we have just launched today an app that's at micro dose dot me don't want Andre microdose taught me is available on the Apple Store it's available on Android and this is a quick little movement micro dosing study a Molten

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loud this on the App Store yep that's a big shift and it's up is this a schedule one drug that they're talking about taking on microdose levels I mean I'm not you know I'm just saying what it is right I mean obviously you know what camp bomb and I want everybody to do it but this this is really significant it is that measures your ability to hear well Vision the tap test you know and how quickly you can tap your fingers it's

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it's a whether you're stacking it with but it's also good for non psychoactive substance use what is your Baseline so you're getting older I'm getting older I'm getting younger do have a new thing okay I vote for you I figured it out but the idea is to create baselines you know and then you create a baseline over time so you find out how far you deteriorated or what your trend line is versus the general population so the idea with with Microsoft microdose

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not me is that will create a massive data set massive amount of data and then we'll offer this to clinicians for them to see signal from the noise I suspect hypothetically I don't have the evidence but several doctors have collected case studies of tinnitus or tinnitus there with pronunciations are correct of the buzzing in your ears and then being able and people have resolved that from doing micro dosing real and 30 percent of Americans have hearing loss or more is

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restive over time how much hearing loss leads to depression because you can't hear your loved one say things and you can arguments and I didn't hear you and you didn't say that and I mean just just ramifies out so the ability of being able to have better cognition better neurological development and helping hearing Vision depression if the interesting thing about the micro dosing that we've been collecting is a people tend to be happier

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here and they're happier they're more creative and whether more creative or happier you learning a new cada you excited the next day you nailed it you're up and going to do it again you writing a new book you're doing an artist's work so creativity Breeze happiness happiness breeds creativity mmm and then the opposite is true malaise and depression you're not as creative you're you're not enjoying life not looking forward to the next day so I think as long as a binary choice

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and the idea of using micro dosing and that the the definitely micro dosing is has sort of a variable interpretations so the using the selasa be cubensis scale which is the most common Soul side Mushroom in the world 1 gram is liftoff five grams is what Terrance would say it was a hero's journey and when I was on last I did with you I did 20 grams so you know that was a little bit much

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you might say but when you do one tenth of a one-gram you don't feel it 120th for sure you don't feel it so the idea is you do micro dosing below the threshold of intoxication but then it benefits neurogenesis now there's an extraordinary interesting study that came out with mice but I think it's translational medicine and they were doing micro dosing versus macro dosing

► 00:38:50

so at these are some numbers but basically one gram is almost equivalent to 1 milligram per kilogram of body weight 70 kilos is a hundred and 52 pounds and so at one milligram per kilogram of with these mice that's like one gram of cubensis that's a dose not super high dose but it's a dose so what they did with these mice as they have them in an arena with a metal floor

► 00:39:17

and they gave a tone dong than 40 seconds later there were shocked so they had the tone again a few minutes later 40 seconds later they got shocked after ten rotations the mice realize like Pavlov's dog when there is a tone that it can be a negative consequence a shock happening to the mice would cower in fear so then they dosed them with a microdose .1 milligrams per kilogram versus 1 milligram per kilogram 1/10 of a dose

► 00:39:47

versus the full dose interestingly the full dose it took ten rotations of no shock the tone no shock before they forgot or became re-acclimated not to have the fear conditioned response with the microdose 1/10 of that and I took two rotations two rotations with a microdose and they dissociated potentially PTSD why do you think it's alas what well that's a really good question and the evidence we have so far

► 00:40:17

our and again this is very early evidence lots of research is going on in this it looks like the neurogenic benefits of micro dosing are greater than the neurogenic benefits of macro dosing you flood The receptors you're having this incredible trip as fantastic as colorful it's life-changing yes that is all beneficial for changing your life but

► 00:40:38

doing Michael dosing over the long term because the nerves don't regrow and six hours but over weeks of regeneration of nerves with micro dosing it seems to me that the micro dosing instead of flooding and overwhelming all the receptors are feeding these receptors the allowing for neurogenesis now this is again a hypothesis there's so many great people studying this right now but I'm advocating it's all of the clinic

► 00:41:08

Missions at Johns Hopkins at Stanford UCLA at Harvard please do testing of the patients for hearing and vision and other behavioral tests that are not just about emotion and mood and PTSD but let's actually get some physical measurements so then you can track prior during during his tooth complicated is 2 into much intervention you're tripping your brains out you don't have time to be tested you know for

► 00:41:38

Envision an audit but then post wise and then looking at at the residual effects now dr. James fadiman he has the fadiman protocol I have my protocol the stamps photo protocol James Ottomans protocol was Mike reducing one day on two days off when days on my protocol that I'm suggesting this for days on three days off and James and I are good friends we talked about this we laugh and we're we're just

► 00:42:08

basically these are hypothetical potential treatments the impairing data between the two of you this is what microdose not me well do we want to say are you following the stammers protocol the vitamin protocol their own protocol are using it with niacin where you doing it with lion's mane what are you using it and lion's mane it's phenomenally powerful neurogenic Ali and with there's two clinical studies out of Japan with mild cognitive decline

► 00:42:38

and dementia showing very positive results taken for two to four grams lines main per day the mycelium interesting not the fruit bite the mycelium is much more powerful and we just have been contracting with a neurological testing laboratory in France and we just got some amazing results back showing that when we had lion's mane extracts of the mycelium exposed to neurons and they the composite

► 00:43:08

troll was the brain derived nerve growth factor nor factor and it was used as a baseline for measuring neurogenic compounds comparatively and the neurogenesis benefits from this is where pluripotent stem cells stem cells that then differentiate in the neurons and the bdnf clearly shows on standard protocol with a lion's mane it also increase the number of neurons then we started looking at analogues of psilocybin and the

► 00:43:38

analogs when we added the lion's mane mycelium with a sole Sovereign analogs which are perfectly legal the not schedule 1 substances psilocybin analogues are not what is it exactly a psilocybin analog there's a number of them that have been reporting the literature there's Baio Sisseton and Norbu Sisseton are two of the more prominent ones now I am a psycho not and 1960 bail system

► 00:44:09

report of a child died outside of Kelso Washington from eating mushrooms in his yard the family ingested the mushrooms

► 00:44:18

they went to the hospital the child developed a fever eventually had renal failure and died a chemist by the name of lung and then Benedict and Tyler picked up on this they analyzed the mushrooms looking for a new toxin the mushrooms were identified as being selasa be Baio cistus it is a mushroom that goes in Washington state and Oregon sometimes in British Columbia but not in Northern California is very rare species but grows in yards

► 00:44:47

when they analyzed the mushroom looking for a new potential toxins they found this alkaloid it's a dimethyltryptamine based compound and they named it biosystem after sloths be basis so base isn't had the reputation of potentially being a deadly poisonous toxin is present in cubensis as president and many Souls have mushrooms and my books also had much into the world has charts that show how much better systems in these things but no one had ever eat it consumed a of system because this reputation

► 00:45:16

BAE Systems legal I obtain some pure based system from a laboratory legally I have no psilocybin you know nature provides I don't people make this very clear but I can have I can possess these cells have been analogs and so since it was no reports in the scientific literature of whether this was truly toxic or not I with my with a doctor friend of mine MD that measured my vitals and hooked me up you know to blood pressure ECG

► 00:45:46

that all the Biometrics that are needed and so we did and of one study I decided that even though it has a history of potentially of killing this child I think that's a false positive I think it was bad science I couldn't find no one who ever ingested this so I decided I would ingest it now my friend Pam is she's an MD that goes into and Antarctica she's the only doctor on a research vessel and so she goes down there and she gets to bring a roommate and was me

► 00:46:17

and so Pam and I were working really hard we had all of our plane tickets we're ready to go to Antarctica we've been planning this for months and then we decide we'll just before gopal this do the the bail System test you know we've been talking about this for months we finally got the time to do this but the next day we're going to Antarctica soap and looks at her cell phone and this is this Russian research vessel crashed into a reef tore a hole in it and it's like it's now the trip is cancelled

► 00:46:46

I mean I'm American Express you know plane tickets hotels I got 24 hours to try to recapture all this money because I can't we can't go the show trip has been canceled so I had super high anxiety I told my doctor friend I I have too much anxiety I can't go this is too crazy and then she kind of looked at me go on this and we've been planning this for months you know please and I listened to her and so I did ten milligrams Bay assistant

► 00:47:15

she measured my heartbeat blood pressure all those all those metrics my eyes did dialate she said that was good so I was a drug like a fact and then she checked in with me every 10-15 minutes 20 minutes usually have liftoff one hour or full blown into it and she talked with me and she talked with me and she has and I would didn't get high I'm not a law seagulls how do you feel and I said I feel great

► 00:47:42

I have no anxiety everything was trip is going to be fine so here we found a analog of psilocybin that does not get you high that's legal that reduced anxiety I think is the tip of the proverbial Iceberg because all the clinical studies are proved right now for Pure psilocybin what about the analogues they activate other receptor sites and you know and your field and her neurological field and that's why I think this is why looking at the natural form of these mushrooms

► 00:48:11

nice to a soul Simon a certain concentration versus the pure molecule I think that is the way of the future because Purcell's Ivan is up to six seven thousand dollars a gram and you can translate that into growing psilocybin mushrooms for two dollars a gram now there are people out there listening saying well the price is coming down indeed it is this down maybe to a thousand to five hundred dollars a gram but how many people in the urban low lower income you know

► 00:48:41

first population suffering from PTSD who don't can't afford to go to Johns Hopkins to spend tens of thousands of dollars to have a clinical treatment I think this democratizes the the use of psilocybin and micro dosing that could be a benefit across our society and then why proposing is you stack it with niacin and the reason why you stack it with niacin is you take one tenth of a gram of /mc Avensis microdose you had a hundred to two hundred milligrams of

► 00:49:11

Morrison now if someone tries to get high by taking ten times as much so I had like two grams of niacin this is Flushing niacin vitamin B3 and that flushing nice and will give you such an irritable reaction of skin itching and people have taken vitamin B they three they know this so becomes the antabuse for micro dosing but moreover it excites the nerves at the end of the peripheral nervous system and neuropathies oftentimes

► 00:49:41

present themselves a deadening of the fingertip the nerves of the fingertips and toes and it's also a vasodilator so there's three attributes of stocking niacin with psilocybin mushrooms that prevents abuse becomes the antabuse it dilates the blood vessels to deliver the neurogenic benefits of psilocybin to the endpoints of the peripheral nervous system and the central nervous system and then and also excites the nerve endings so I think those three reasons this could be hoped

► 00:50:11

see in the future psilocybin mushroom to being over-the-counter vitamins approved by the FDA stack with niacin that allows for the universality of use for the benefit of our culture what we were talking last time how could I possibly do for him is there any other evidence of people taking these analogs and having this anti-anxiety effect other than you meet the seems so very small sample size right it's just one person yes there are as an antidepressant as far as anxiety

► 00:50:41

tea and depression are interrelated there are reports James fadiman and his studies he is population study which admittedly small did not see an anti-anxiety component but other clinical studies at Johns Hopkins also the anxiety of dying from cancer well but that was actually suicide but that was actually so sorry but I'm saying with you is also you had a very profoundly stressful situation happening something you had prepared for for a long time that all sudden was gone and

► 00:51:11

his money's gone you got to try to figure out how to get it back is like its immediate right right maybe with these other people they didn't have such an immediate anxiety moment and maybe their anxiety it was harder to measure whether he's coming or going well I absolutely is that end of one study this needs this is just how many people me no the other one with the other people that have experienced it but didn't experience any anti-anxiety there's no one else that we know in the scientific literature you'll hand guards

► 00:51:41

it mentions he I published lost to be as Russians with him the most potent psilocybin mushroom in the world you'll hand guard says in one thing that he was asked and he said that bay assistant was equal to the outsole Simon I don't have high confidence that statement I can send a assistant I was ready for liftoff I was hoping for liftoff I know but liftoff feels like and I didn't get it so so this is this is what happens in science so much is the scientist when the you can't do a clinical study

► 00:52:11

we bioassay this is very common this is how Albert Hofmann you know discovered LSD he by oscillated so we need to it accidentally though it doesn't accidentally right I got and one for this famous bike ride but then he did it purposely after that but nevertheless this is what our scientific you know Psychonauts must do sometimes children yeah Sasha slogans are famous for it the most famous of all and the most revered and he by iOS 8 based on his knowledge of chemistry he wasn't going

► 00:52:41

to try to commit suicide so so this is really an area that I think has enormous value and a several meta Studies have come out one that I had mentioned before is a population of several hundred thousand prisoners and there was a 18% reduction in violent crime and 22 percent or so a reduction in larceny and theft in a population where they reported they had one psilocybin mushroom

► 00:53:11

experience and statistically significant now Association may not be causation but it can be but a more recent study from the British Columbia which I find to be so fascinating is that they did a large population set and partner to partner violence if you're a male partner

► 00:53:33

I had done one psilocybin trip to statistically significant reduction of the probability of that partner being violent towards their other partner

► 00:53:46

statistically significant so I always thought there's a dating app maybe you should have the dating app have you tripped on psilocybin yes well that may be a better candidate for dating so I think psilocybin makes nicer people and I think we did a lot more nicer people that are more creative that are dedicated to helping the community and I think this is a potential paradigm-shifting a drug unquestionably and here's the other thing this could be profit

► 00:54:15

I mean he's these companies that are seeking to profit off of pharmaceutical drugs you can profit off this stuff with particularly with the protocol that you just described with adding niacin to it to ensure that people doing only micro dosing look man this could be a very profitable Enterprise for some company and the benefits if people can mirror the benefits that you had of this alleviation of anxiety my God that's like most of what people struggle with so many people out there listening to this right now like

► 00:54:45

fuck I wish there was something that didn't get me high but just alleviated this fucking angst that so many people are struggling with every day I'd say that's a massive disease complex as swept our society yeah and and the facing all these problems how could you not become depressed well you cannot become depressed by become a creative and I think that's all Simon and Marco dosing enables the creative Pathways for Ingenuity for us to feel

► 00:55:16

meaning we can make a meaningful difference and it's really important

► 00:55:22

we've entered into 6 x 2 6 greatest Extinction event known in the history of Life on this planet we've had two other Extinction events from asteroid impacts 250 million years ago 65 million years ago but we're and now involved in a massive Extinction event and the research that came out today and the other resources come out with 75% of the insect population 40% in and immediate Jeopardy the research article came out said in Europe and North America they have good data collection

► 00:55:52

don't so what do you mean having measured the insect loss in the Amazon but if you're a trout if you're a bird if you like drinking coffee and like chocolate and like almonds I mean these are all dependent upon pollinators so we lose these flying insects we lose the pollination services and it threatens worldwide food biosecurity this is one of the biggest threats to our ecosystem now I think we can invent are ways out of this if we creatively

► 00:56:21

you know expand our ability to come up with novel Solutions and I think the solutions are literally underfoot and all around us today we just have to wake up like I woke up to helping the bees so many smart people out there if they just started realizing that nature is a deep well of evolutionary knowledge and that we have evolved within this complexity then to delve into that library of knowledge and pulling out a political Solutions vetted by science controlled

► 00:56:52

he's but not looking at these pharmaceutical pure molecules as the way of the future but looking at the upon the complexity of the microbiome the complex interrelationships and selecting out microbiomes that then quit Guilds of solutions that are applicable to the problems that we face today mmm

► 00:57:11

all right I like that idea all of it it's just that it's beautiful that there are these natural solutions that you know maybe if we could just shift people's ideas about how we view psilocybin how we view the analogs how we view the interaction with people and nature that you can you know we could make it a real change make a change that's tangible inside of our lifetime and again selling this stuff like if look we're seeing what's happening

► 00:57:40

right now with medical marijuana and then shifting to commercial marijuana and now hemp it's giant mean it's a huge industry through its change Colorado Colorado Denver is real estates gone through the roof people are moving there so much that they've got traffic problems now they never conceived of in the past it's changed their economy and it's changed their economy due to just a really obvious shift here's a shift marijuana's not bad for you it's not we thought it was it's not we're sorry you could have it now and now you can sell it

► 00:58:10

and now it's legal but federally we're still dealing with schedule 1 so it's it's there these shifts are happening these companies are investing money there's a lot of profit to be made and a lot of people are profiting but it's still in this weird transitionary stage it is but this is a people's Revolution yeah you have decriminalized nature coming out of Oakland which I'm fully in favor of how dare we make a species illegal at that makes no sense to me what is Oakland specifically they've made Ayahuasca psilocybin what else

► 00:58:41

all natural products with psychoactive properties to the best of my understanding the both Denver and Oakland they remove the funding of the for prosecutors and judges in the courts you can't use public funds and order to prosecute people for possession so this is a very still arrest them for it though well you the law enforcement officers not getting paid is not doing his job he's violating his code of conduct if you arrest them and you take them to a prosecutor prosecutors I have no funding for this you're wasting our time

► 00:59:10

I'm you're just coming here is wasting my time I have murders to solve what if someone selling it decriminalization does not it doesn't prevent you from being prosecuted for selling a sexual schedule 1 substance right that's a really really good question and I have thoughts on it that's controversial because this speaks to the ability of some people having access and not if you want I only trip on psilocybin mushrooms once or twice a year that's all I

► 00:59:41

as Terence McKenna um I think Alan Watts said when when you when you get the message from the phone hang it up so if you just have this whole side mushrooms growing and your backyard or you know how to collect them then you only need one or two doses a year and even micro dosing you know you could get a lot more extension of that

► 01:00:04

but my my view and I have never had any problem with law enforcement and Washington Oregon and British Columbia Canada in particular law enforcement has a very pretty mature attitude towards this if you have a small amount and you're not trafficking and your for individual use it just doesn't raise the level of the need for enforcement no I understand that but I just wish there was no incentive at all there was nothing there like this the idea that you have to rely on the good grace of a cop understands that there's no incentive to her

► 01:00:34

Choo that seems like horse shit to me like we're grown adults in 2019 with a mountain of evidence this is not we're not living in the Dark Ages anymore in the fact that it's still a possibility that you get arrested are you get you could face some sort of criminal charges for having something that's only been demonstrated to be good this is why is the citizens movement the federal government I mean the Republicans and conservatives and Libertarians are all about state rights this is a people's movement they should get behind this because individual Community rights

► 01:01:04

against the the big man against the federal government yeah the federal government within needs to be a title change and how do we do that is because we have decriminalized nature and Oregon we have the dendera and Denver initiative other cities around the country is now spreading throughout the entire country there's probably 20 cities and the next 16 months they're going to have decriminalization the city council's I also think it's a significant solution to this

► 01:01:34

problem that we're facing with pills and a lot of destructive drugs there's a lot of self-destructive drugs that people are taking because these people are hurting what would psilocybin gives you that these drugs don't it gives you a potential to heal it gives you a moment to reflect it gives you a change in the way you think and you interface with the world and that just doesn't exist in those other those drugs are Escape drugs and The Need to Escape is what we got to eliminate and I think that's one of the things that psilocybin can help it can help alleviate the Need to Escape

► 01:02:04

and a shout out to Rick doblin and Ileana a gillooly of maps maps a.org the multidisciplinary association for psychedelic studies maps dot org and maps not CA and Canada have been instrumental and bringing forward psychedelic drugs for PTSD and clinical studies maps is now in Phase 3 with MDMA with MDMA I've had Rick on a couple times yeah I love that

► 01:02:34

so yeah his I mean he's a real Pioneer in this and so what's interesting and getting now I've from three different groups I have heard who sat down with FDA scientists there's been a new turnover within the FDA and these scientists are looking at just pure science without politics they don't care about politics they want to help people and several of them have said they've never seen with psilocybin in particular a safer drug with such a dramatic impact with so it's in frequency of use one or two

► 01:03:04

times and so there is a movie that just came out called fantastic fungi and and Michael pollan's in there I'm in there Lewis schwartzberg as put it out he spent 12 years working on this movie is fantastic fungi.com it's a Grassroots movement theaters are selling out all over the country they booked at New York City for one night they have to keep it in for a week because they're standing lines Standing Room you know long lines to get

► 01:03:34

the theater and it's all about the use of mushrooms and the Johns Hopkins studies with end of life patients it's very very well done but it speaks to this is that this is literally a quote-unquote underground movement that swelling up and the the attraction that people have for this as a reflection of the title change that is happening now this is a worldwide movement that is sweeping through the mycelial Underground through connections

► 01:04:04

so something I very much encourage you to see fantastic fungi is on Netflix it's not a Netflix Lewis was offered a lot of money for Netflix but once it gets the Netflix as a library book and the library and he wanted to build community so he's been out and people can sponsor theater openings it's got a hundred percent on Rotten Tomatoes how many movies get a hundred percent on Rotten Tomatoes so it is really a people's movie in a spreading you know where can you get it you got a fantastic fungi.com

► 01:04:34

and you can sign up for theaters enormous it has to be in a theater yeah right now it will be eventually after this year it's going to be available on the web right now Louis spent a lot of money for five million dollars I think Norman and Lynn Lear Norman Lear All in the Family you know Archie Bunker they're also co-producers of this really yeah and so yeah Lindley Roman leaders out there tripping allegedly I cared as well

► 01:05:04

ready to explore the magic that lot lives beneath our feet wow II thought Archie Bunker was one of the most lovable racist conservative assholes I've ever ever seen on TV but um well normally we are did a lot more than that right this is really interesting though that they've decided to release it in film theaters and reverses on the web because if you really want to reach a lot of people and is it selling this way is this I mean it seems like if he spent a lot of money

► 01:05:35

the way to get that money back would be the salad to Netflix like why that's I would agree with you except never Amazon Netflix offered him one quarter to one half of the cost and so it's okay was not they didn't value it and they didn't see it I mean South by Southwest turned them down and it's got a hundred percent on Rotten Tomatoes why do people just don't see this why like South by Southwest turned them down because it's not part of think of the Hollywood establishment South by Southwest you know so I may I

► 01:06:05

and explain why South by Southwest turn it down or you know or the the other festivals the contest of excetera That's Not My Level of expertise but what is happening is that these theaters are selling out days upon days huge response people have an appetite for this because it gives them hope and meaning and our time of desperation they say actionable solutions that cross political and

► 01:06:35

cultural boundaries that can help the commons hmm and I think that we are suffering in our societies from the media from the politics from the science showing the loss of habitat Health that were under lots of stressors just like the bees are we have a multiplicity of stressors and these stressors lead the malays depression disease crime and poverty and this is something that I think in can help do a title change for the better

► 01:07:05

out of this done responsibly now you've mentioned companies there's 20 at least New Soul Simon companies have been formed in the past year a lot of them from the Canadian cannabis industry they made a ton of money so they're they've several of them called me up I've talked to two groups and both groups when I asked them have you done a heroic dose on psilocybin

► 01:07:29

none of them would admit that they did the scared they hadn't tripped what I asked him have you done a small dose they said and then we must silent and one Rabbi said he folks just seemed like economic opportunists and one of them said that's exactly what we are trying to make money I'll make a deal with them listen I need one afternoon of your time I think it's important to come to Jesus

► 01:07:55

that's a that's a different subject I mean would be amazing right do that say look I'll do this deal with you but just give me five hours you take the five hours have them all trip together now go let's re-evaluate this I'm with you I'm with you brother and that's what's needed because those of us who understand the importance of this realize that this is something that we have to carefully Shepherd yes for maximum benefit and at these

► 01:08:24

nation of these companies like all its poor Wars very soon there's going to be support Wars Don Tom between all these complex good movie that's that's a sequel Spore Wars I'm Mandy what it's exciting to me is it's not dirty anymore okay when the first time I did mushrooms I think was

► 01:08:46

very very early 2000s and gaudy tell people about it they were like what's wrong with you you're a grown adult who took pay taxes you know you know all my life it's like you what kind of a fuckup are you at your age you're doing mushrooms my god grow up but that's what it was like and you tell them no I don't think that's what it is I think it expands your Consciousness I think connects you to higher levels of thinking and it just makes you more in tuned with the great beyond there's something

► 01:09:16

there's something more there than like you listen to yourself yeah go to work go goddamn get up in the morning and have a cup of coffee and cut of work but now it's people are slowly but surely the dirtiness of even and then the term micro dosing is wonderful because people know you could take a little bit you know ugh leave microdose on this podcast for our and I just took a couple stems recently and then like I guess is probably a little more than microdose it was it was a pretty we were we

► 01:09:46

were definitely noticeably high but like an hour in and like me an hour and a half and I know I forgot we took mushrooms and like why am I so happy but that feeling it's like I want people to experience that feeling because it's a it's a relatively clean feeling and I for mushrooms I feel younger yeah I go to this Ted conferences every year and some lighter feel like I was treated like a leper you know and I went to Ted you know and the organizer Ted was so afraid I don't talk about psychedelic mushrooms how many years ago was this

► 01:10:16

Nate when I first went Mike what's it like now though this right this last time I met I was treated like a super celebrity I had I had these hugely hugely powerful people some of the names you probably know who came up to me and would shake my shoulders going now I understand now we understand as I had to say about down boy you know yeah down and there but they woke into something and their their mates their friends their business

► 01:10:46

associates you know there's seems the common theme is wow he was such a jerk before and he's so nice now yeah the seeking cooperation and they still are productive there still are creative there are banging it out the coders and and Silicon Valley know that micro dosing helps her coding ability so it's a competitive advantage to those other computer companies that do not hmm you know I think any any new business

► 01:11:15

populated and Pinnacle by young people who are not doing micro dosing are going to be a competitive disadvantage mmm because the creativity flow the camaraderie the community seeking to benefit the comments and also reward yourself I'm not saying it's all you know just just helping helping the comments but the idea of being able to reward yourself and people rejoice and your success and they benefit from it as well

► 01:11:39

it really integrates people together yeah it's also people need to understand that there's a lot of this squirreling away resources and money and things and trying to climb that corporate ladder this is a finite life it doesn't last that long it's a trick you get sucked into this track and this track is what every CEO and every head of every corporation every Chief Financial Officer all these people that are just trying to like improve the bottom line

► 01:12:09

rake in more money keep this company growing and keep kicking ass it's a trick you're sucked up in a trick there's a natural human tendency to accumulate numbers for whatever reason go back to our early days when resources were scarce and if you get sucked into that trick one day you're going to wake up and that that's going to be usually be too late usually it's on your deathbed usually it's close to it you like what did I do this is it my health is failing my life's falling apart

► 01:12:39

and what has my life been it's been 10 12 14 hours a day in these stuffed offices under fluorescent lights crunching numbers and trying to acquire things and for what like what impact of I made on humans what what what does the negative impact of my ambition on the people that are around me like all this is like the one thing that psilocybin and particularly just psychedelics in general can provide is a break from

► 01:13:09

Aaron's a stopping Acca ceasefire of all the momentum of our culture civilization finances taxes credit card debt all that shit just stops and you get a chance to step back and look at the machine watch it all world and spin in front of you and you get to say oh I got sucked into the trick I'm sucked into a trick a lot of people I've talked to exactly what you're talking about your men

► 01:13:39

inning and they did do a heroic Journey yeah and they look back and going why was I prioritizing that yeah I want to be out with my children yes you know and looking at birds or walking in nature yeah nature like my one of my books sell side much of the world has a great chapter and I think called good tips for great trips and one of the things I understand the clinically controlled settings for clinical studies Etc a lot of us don't

► 01:14:09

that but I really enjoy being on an ocean Bluff or a high point and by being in the mushrooms about half an hour before Sunset being with a loved one also good to have an experienced person who's not tripping who is up the Watcher sitter a sitter a sitter is there thinking meditation practice in place folks give these people some space who's just watching and then the people who are imbibing

► 01:14:39

I understand they have a watcher they have somebody who's anchored who could help them and then to have this the sun go down and and the stars come out and the colors and then miss Oceanic expansive experience is just as nothing short of spiritual a degree I think this one thing we should talk about though there are people that have a tendency toward schizophrenia and these people have sometimes they have psychedelic breaks

► 01:15:09

don't have psychedelic experiences and then they don't do well they go off times about you brought that up and that is a deselection of from the from the clinical studies of candidates who want to engage but my good friend Mark Hayden who runs Maps Canada had a very interesting story with a schizophrenic and he also cautioned every physician I know is on the same page issues including medical not medical marijuana edible edible marijuana

► 01:15:39

wanna seem to have a significant effect on people with it what Mark doted with this one person who is a severe schizophrenic was that he still heard voices in his head but the voice is not were friendly they were affirming they weren't like you know go kill somebody it's like you know you are a good person right and so he still had the voice in the head but the tenor and tone and attitude of the voices were supportive what I'm talking about is it bringing on the schizophrenic

► 01:16:09

it says that there has been some evidence particularly about marijuana that high doses of marijuana for people that have Tendencies and we don't know right what causes someone to have schizophrenic breaks because they're there is a difference between pre and post right people had deteriorating mental health that's like correlates with schizophrenia like what what it what it cause them to be less schizophrenic or not exhibiting any of the problems and then all of a sudden having severe

► 01:16:39

problems post psychedelic trip or post large dose edible marijuana and or even large dose smoking it or some people they dab and they smoke wax and then it happens to people that smoke too much pot there's certain people that have that tendency I would defer to clinicians who are extremely skilled in this area and who have seen many many patients I'm not a doctor but I concur with you I think that is a real concern the difference between a

► 01:17:09

accident in a drug can oftentimes be dose and lower doses you can see things at hired us as you don't right so it's an entire spectrum and is so complex and individualities of people are so uniquely different yeah I have a friend who's a doctor if he smokes a joint he can't go to sleep I smoked a joint and I'm a I'm until a cuddle puddle man I'm ready for the pillow you know at night I just I use it for going to sleep

► 01:17:39

yeah I'm the opposite yeah I start writing I want to read I want to watch documentaries yeah but it's a sativa thing too as well right isn't it they do have a significant difference between the way your body responds sativas versus indicas I would like to be educated on the subject I've used both for a very long time I love Afghani Indica I you have a beard I would be Road I love the smell cannabis on me like this smell and you beer yeah weirdo

► 01:18:11

it's my perfume right I get it so but there's a lot of you know we're in a new realm of pharmacology hmm and Pharma cognizant and this is I think we have been navigate this carefully the problem with natural products of how to use standardized them to the octave constituent when you have more than one active constituent you know how do you standardize them all there's an Entourage or a symphony affect this speaks to the complexity of nature but I have a phrase

► 01:18:39

and I like his don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good just because you can't understand it doesn't mean it necessarily does not have a valid outcome or you know can't be used and I think that what we need to do is correct large data sets and that's why I'm hoping microdose not me is going to give us an enormous amount of data then the clinicians can Harvest from and going we didn't anticipate This and like these meta studies about partner partner violence when if your partner men

► 01:19:09

tripped on mushrooms they were less prone to Violent that was signal from the noise how many other signals from the noise of these big big metafiles that we can we can pull out then we can get serious scientists to do really carefully controlled clinical studies to be able to see this and then and then how do you combine them and I mean there's this it's a whole new landscape that gets away from single molecules into the complexity of nature that we can build upon now

► 01:19:39

navigating to that place is going to be a challenge there's no doubt about it but I think we're smart enough now we have enough computer Technologies and diagnostic tools that we should begin on that Voyage today what do you think is responsible for that shift from Ted of 2008 to Ted of 2019 Michael pollan's book probably yeah Michael pollan's book was was the big bridge and yeah he has 40 pages on me and Michael if you're listening

► 01:20:08

buddy dude I told him not to reveal my secret mushroom patch never trust a journalist and Michael Pollan bless his heart I love him he's a great guy but he said in his books so to speak he says Paul told me not to tell you where my his secret mushroom patch is but I can tell you that we slept in a yurt there are three state parks along the Columbia River and two of them have Yurts

► 01:20:36

he just basically gave up your spot he my spot and it's like okay Michael well we do that I think it's the urge of a writer trying to give something to their readership you know so what happened to that spot get transit it's run over with people collecting psilocybin mushrooms they have big signs everywhere they arrest people it's a huge income Source now who tops for the cops because they bust people but it but the good news

► 01:21:05

out that as I have gone to the state parks and because it's big signs of no mushroom picking on law enforcement's there there's lots of mushrooms they're everywhere and so I can photograph them but you're not allowed to touch them so they look what are they check you on your way out oh there are there are like bees on honey so to speak come on they are hiding in the bushes there are alpha male times in that there they've got drugs grown out of the ground and then like they touch it they swarm don't touch it

► 01:21:35

a lot of fun with my friend because I got a stick and I go okay I touch the mushrooms with a stick now am I actually touching the mushrooms or not because if you touch them check your pockets they will search you yeah they'll search you for just randomly know if they have reason to believe reason to believe they can search through stuff them in your underwear bro just take a big fat baggy or swallow them quickly but um you know I don't this is it is preposterous well if they find you lying down what was your

► 01:22:05

is dilated you'd have to talk to them you know and I know if they would do a fecal sample later on or what used but as it approaches the Absurd yeah you know and this is one of the law enforcement's becomes absurd even the law enforcement officers I know who you know you've been the martial arts a lot all your life's myself as well I had several schools for about 30 years and I had several Law Enforcement Officers with students yeah they don't want to be involved I now know that there to get roped into

► 01:22:35

into it by the system yeah they like like this is not something they want to do I know a ton of cops are not none of them give a shit about mushrooms so yeah it's yeah it's hugely hugely unfortunate consequence of really ridiculous laws and in the idea of grown adults telling other grown adults that they can't do something that is incredibly beneficial that they themselves have never experienced they have no knowledge of it at all other than the ancient stereotypes mushrooms being bad

► 01:23:05

she was being for burnouts and losers and hippies and all you can't handle life or their classrooms are walking Hypocrites they know it you know they use it themselves and I still like this tormented but they have to do this so I found the most law enforcement officers are extremely reasonable yeah as long as you show intent you know yeah your attention respect and respect yeah hundred percent so it's it's never been but you know I don't subscribe to the defense that so

► 01:23:35

we're doing for Spiritual purposes and they have you know hundreds of pounds was Ziploc bags with scales in the basement and doing a commercial operation right you're avoiding taxes right you're producing this as a factory you know take it on the chin you got busted hey comes with the territory yeah Eyes Wide Open Don't cloak it in like then the veil of spirituality or trying to create a spiritual Revolution unless you're a true Saint you're giving that shit away yeah well that would be different but yeah I have a phrase nature provides I don't because

► 01:24:05

I don't want to be responsible for another person's experience so for sure what if they have a meltdown and they blame Joe Rogan yes Paul Stam yes I don't I can't control that circumstance I don't want the responsibility hmm it's one of the reasons why I've hesitated on getting involved in medical marijuana or so you know commercial marijuana I've been offered and I'm always like I just don't think this is the right because you can't especially with Edibles you can't control people you don't know what they're going to do I don't I don't do that apples

► 01:24:35

because I know that's hilarious well I was in Canyon College at Kenyon College in 1973 my dad was coming to visit and one of my one of my people on the floor at this dormitory they made some marijuana brownies oh boy and I had never taken restarts that way I ate two brownies I got my dad's coming and two or three hours so what the heck and I was so friggin stoned I could not believe it and I could barely keep my eyes were really I'm trying to trying to maintain

► 01:25:05

you know how it is you're trying to look like you're not stoned but your blitzed out of your gourd and so I my dad was like you looking at me really curiously this 19th early 1970s and so the next day I said dad I got to tell you something I ate some marijuana brownies because I knew something was wrong I knew I could tell I can tell I got all no shit Sherlock I was lying flat on the floor yeah but it was it's but marijuana they get mad at you know he was actually amused and delighted that I explained to him why I look so it's no no well that's great that you

► 01:25:35

have that kind of communication

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yeah just before before he died he wanted to trip on mushrooms and and I turned him down

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because he was close to the end of his life and he was very religious and I was concerned I would shake his reality tree so severely that he would question his entire life because he was like a Death of a Salesman figure is a tragic life that he led and the mushrooms could have helped him enormously but I was a concerned that he would look back and goes I wasted my life so it was too much of too heavy for me and it may be my maybe I'm being selfish because I was trying to protect my own feelings

► 01:26:15

but he wanted to do it he asked me actually he said I want to I want to do so side mushrooms with you and he wouldn't smoke pot do you have regrets about that but not doing it with him I do I have I have a lot of regrets about that so I have met several people in the past several weeks at Stanford Medical School at these other conferences that I go to which there's a brain mind conference at Stanford Medical School in the first two sentences they mentioned psilocybin huh

► 01:26:45

third and 20 neuro scientists you know and hundred and fifty billion dollars in the room and psilocybin was immediately mentioned and what I met some people there that are intergenerational grandparent parent and 18 19 year old child all journeyed with mushrooms together

► 01:27:04

and their interpersonal relationships they told me you know there's no reason for us ever to get mad at each other I just thought that was really powerful wow

► 01:27:16

yeah that is powerful that sounds inconceivable to someone who's never experienced psychedelics but someone who has you go yeah I see how you could get there I don't make mountains out of molehills yeah you know you can disagree without being angry and you can be civil about it yes oh well that's a lesson the world could use right now I think this is in many ways the antidote for some of the problems that we're seeing with social media one of the problems we see with social media is this disconnect from The Human Experience disconnect from communication

► 01:27:46

person-to-person communication and this anger and vitriol and look hate and just re hiding behind screen yes in general yes you know you're Joe Rogan I'm Paul stamets yeah well who are these people live on screen names through just and I thought great Ted Talk which I did not understand and the Ted Talk was fantastic talking about why trolls do the things that they do they do it because they get excitement sure the idea is just to disturb the fabric and the more disturbance they got that is a measure

► 01:28:16

of their success yes and provoking a response even if I'm not wedded to it this want to be able to cause a ripple in the pond yeah and they don't feel significant so they want to do something that they can get some sort of reaction they have a rock they see a window they want to throw it it's a natural inclination but it's stupid it's barbaric it's a one but it's a waste of fucking time you know and some people celebrated I'm like okay celebrate it you're not doing shit you're not doing shit for yourself you're not doing shit for other people you're not improving whatever your art is

► 01:28:46

is whatever your whatever whatever it is that you you try to do in this life to leave your mark or to contributor to be creative you're not doing that if you're trolling you just not all troller should eat mushrooms yes well a lot all angry people should eat mushrooms that's true I really agree with that so well you know there is good evidence that lion's mane also compensates in many of these neurogenic benefits that's all I've got

► 01:29:15

of all the time there's like a lion's mane Elixir that I pour it tell me if that shit's any good well it comes from China and Zeb add every Chinese experts I've met they said I wouldn't dare by a mushroom from China and cheese and rice so this is we have a spoonable lion's mane which got and put that in smoothies all the time and that's my go-to and that's what exactly the research I put it in coffee yeah I present coffee and Jaime Duque pull up that how much did I put in neurogenesis

► 01:29:45

it's of lion's mane how much should I put in hoods open it's not open yet right now it's put in there I'd put about a teaspoon and stir it in with that but the neuro that's good and the neurogenesis the this company in France that we did the neurogenic tests with found that the mycelium was far more active than the mushroom for parties and so the lion's mane stimulates neurogenesis outgrowth and basically extends

► 01:30:15

as the nerves from from from growing compared to Baseline yeah so in 7 to 12 days of substantial up to 22 percent increase in neuro outgrowth what we found was actually there's one of us at 8% one was at 12% and then separately we stocked it with an analog of psilocybin and rather than being the Earth medic arithmetic additive of cumulative we found this energy so we think that lion's mane

► 01:30:46

the research has shown increases Milan regeneration on the sheath of the nerves and the psilocybin proliferates nerve tip growth so it should conceivably help you learn this is a so this is an example this is unexpected result this is lines name my son Liam that showing a 14 you know basically if 14.8 percent over a baseline then we have a psilocybin analog that didn't do all that great which analog is again this is a

► 01:31:16

I'm gonna go describe the analog for now okay because for obvious reasons but it's a legal analog it creates a 7% outgrowth of no rides but then we stocked it with lion's mane and and the psilocybin analog there's a theoretical additive effect 114 plus 107 122 but we got 136 statistically significant the outlier actually is even higher so the neural the neuroscientists and

► 01:31:46

France said that this study was extremely excited and we found that the more we titrated it to Greater dilution the more active it becomes what's that mean well what titrate what does that mean what maybe the we're diluting it and it is our human cells pure potent stem cells and what we found was originally we were told as called three micrograms per milligram or three micrograms a millionth of a gram but when we went back to

► 01:32:16

2.03 100 times less the neurogenic benefits became greater now there's something called the peek a conversion of the pharmacokinetics when you ingest something only a small portion of it make it into your bloodstream so the good news is is that these things are so non-toxic and there are so potent now looking at the dosing regimen it appears so far we have done this clinically this is

► 01:32:46

human cells in vitro but this laboratory is predictive of neurogenic compounds that these Punk the neurogenic benefits are so substantial that the peak a conversion of ingesting them can be seen in the bloodstream as a fairly good conversion rate so you for instance if you take vanilla Cassidy vanilla about 2% will make it into your bloodstream so if you take a 1 kilogram of vanilla

► 01:33:16

two percent actually gets in your blood stream so that that's the peak a conversion so what we're seeing is right now is the potency of this is so strong at lower and lower dilutions we're getting more and more potency so I'm this is yeah it's a it's like this a dilution is the solution to profitability the more that we dilute the more potent it becomes so this why the neuroscientists and France are doing the study going this stuff is so potent please dilute it they looted dilute it so and so

► 01:33:46

we're we see this as a tremendous Horizon that Lions Mane's legal it's an edible and choice mushroom thousand year history of use that we found that the mycelium is far more potent in the mushrooms for really good reasons the the comps on the compounds of Caldera Nations and these are actually discovered by kawaguchi and 1994 looking for an antibacterial agent and so when they when he was looking at

► 01:34:16

mycelium fighting bacteria he found that the mycelium expressed this antibacterial the sine of theta derivative and he gave it the name Aaron a scene after her ischium Aaron atius just like penicillin the named after penicillium and so he'd stumbled on the fact that it has neurogenic properties and antibacterial properties so the mycelium is navigating through the ground through a hostile environment 71 cell wall thick it the mycelium has an immune system that's

► 01:34:46

a tional between 40 degrees Fahrenheit and 95 degrees Fahrenheit 35 degrees Celsius that's that's that's the window it was growing in so it's immune systems operative in that window when you do super hot water extracts you're in the extreme Zone that's not part of the email logical lifespan of the mushroom your decocting it you're taking out ingredients but you're not harnessing within the me logical window of temperatures that the mycelium has evolved to fight off pathogens

► 01:35:16

and so what we have found is the mycelium is far more active than the fruit bodies this is all new science but they are mushroom references.com is populated with dozens upon dozens of peer-reviewed Articles showing the mycelium as far more active than the fruit bodies and whole genome sequencing of reishi for instance founds 25 more 25% more genes coding for proteins are expressed at the mycelial state that the mushroom state law makes sense because the mushrooms at the end of millions of cell

► 01:35:46

ins over months years even decades finally produce a mushroom that rocks in five days the mushroom doesn't need a good immune system is attracting Michael Voris animals dear you know John just showed me some photographs of he's going to show you he was in a campground and found deer and the morning digging up mushrooms out of the ground well animals engage on truth you're one of your colleagues here or maybe it's Jeff I'm sorry

► 01:36:13

Jeff when we go to work yeah okay so the idea but many mushrooms attract insects people animals because they're fragrant their protein there are nutritionally dense and they want to engage humans the mycelium is navigating through a microbial a hostile environment and Report came out in the literature of over a thousand species of bacteria in a single gram is more than eight miles of mycelium and a simple cubic inch so the mycelium is navigating through a hostile

► 01:36:42

microbial environment is setting up guilds and microbiomes and collections of cooperating bacteria that can help them defend against pathogens look at that estimated up to eight miles of mycelium in a single inch of soil and it's only one cell wall thick that's such a weird looking image so it's so hard to see what that is that's a mushroom that's melted back into the ground my psyllium that's just now the mushrooms generate mycelium and it goes underneath the ground so every time you're walking on the ground you're walking up on me

► 01:37:12

miles upon miles of mycelium and it knows that you're there

► 01:37:17

these are sensitive these are not only externalized stomachs that are digesting nutrients and externalized lungs exhaling carbon dioxide inhaling oxygen but I believe these are extant neurological networks of nature when you see that pervasiveness of those cells and the climate change scientists are coming around to this seventy percent of the carbon biologically stored in my psyllium in the ground the way to fight climate change not only replanting trees which is great I love

► 01:37:47

of it but it's the my social networks rebuilding in the hummus that creates the soil the crease the biodiversity that then guarantees the health of the ecosystem so is it mycelial networks that govern because are so pervasive they set up because our antibacterial properties are pro bacterial properties another example of this is in the microbiome of soils and inside of humans stomachs turkey tail mushrooms and a placebo controlled random

► 01:38:18

a randomized clinical study with humans from one scientists associated with Harvard found that turkey tail my selling is a Prebiotic the microbiome that feeds bifidobacterium locked it lactobacillus and suppresses clostridium which is an inflammatory bacterium so it's really really interesting that the mycelium is feeding nutrients to the beneficial bacteria within the microbiome that then gives us health and so

► 01:38:47

these are precursor nutrients that elevate the populations of the beneficial bacteria so the two go hand in hand what about edible mushrooms things like shiitake and those type of mushrooms are there any nutritional benefit to those things enormous nutritional benefit and there's been two also meta studies that have come out this year showing that the ingestion of mushrooms with elderly people over the age of 60 there's a

► 01:39:17

a 50% decrease odds of Alzheimer's like symptoms without population in of people consuming three mushroom meals per week now they didn't specify the mushrooms is not a single poor but the mushrooms are commonly eating our oyster mushrooms shiitake and shimeji I may be some other mushrooms but that's that's one meta study that came out there was a study out of Japan from dr. Okawa the National Cancer Center the found

► 01:39:47

a significant reduction in cancers across the board I think a hundred and sixty-two thousand people in this data set and he was sent over the Nagano prefecture to look for this and these are edible and delicious mushrooms also they empower the immune system again signal from the noise statistically significant reduction overall cancer rates associated with a food the division now between you know foods and medicines is blurred and yet it speaks to Hippocrates in and I ask for IDs

► 01:40:17

stating that let food be thy medicine and Medicine be thy food so it's interesting because Physicians have been taught you know this sort of monomolecular approached her medicine and now we were realizing that these foods are essential nutrients for your immune system that that down regulates inflammation so interesting that we're learning all this during our lifetime to you'd think that would all be established by now well I'm glad you asked that we have a paper coming out and next two or three days maybe the next week

► 01:40:47

this on our turkey tail mycelium the grown on rice and we were able to find out something that no one had been reported in the literature the traditional Chinese medicine approaches to these are immunomodulators they help the immune system but they also are not inflammatory when you have an immune response oftentimes associated with an inflammatory response blood rushes to the wound you inflame you have all these these compounds that are being produced by the blood to suppress an infection but you can over amp the

► 01:41:17

moon system and have it in a plant a profile amatory response that can cause a lot of oxidative stress damage that a collaterally and so the article that that's just coming out with BMC biomed Central alternative and complementary medicine peer-reviewed we have found that the mycelium when it grows on Rice bio ferments the rice to then produce a unique immunological response that upregulates what's called interleukin-1

► 01:41:47

and interleukin-10 these are anti-inflammatory cytokines and so the mycelium doesn't do that the mushrooms doing to that but the mycelium is bio fermented the rice like Tempe is is transformed or like yogurt comes from milk because of of lactobacillus acidophilus and that transformation then makes a novel product we found the same thing that the the rice compared to the rice control has

► 01:42:17

is no anti-inflammatory properties the mycelium because of extracellular metabolites changes the rice into a unique immunological product that excites the expression of anti-inflammatory compounds while also exciting the pro immune response so it's a buffered response it's interesting to the bringing this up that it's growing on something else that that seems to be part of nature right this sort of symbiotic relationship that some of these mushrooms have with the plants in the the environment around them

► 01:42:47

that's a really really good point because the mycelium will be found with the bees when we grew the mycelium on Rice compared to on Birch wood the mycelium brown rice reduce the viruses ten plus ten to one the mycelium we grew it on Birch reduce the viruses up to a thousand to one So that's its natural environment that that that speaks to the fact that there

► 01:43:17

there appears to be something that's coding within the ecosystem that the excites the mycelium to produce something that is more strongly result in an antiviral activity that's the case with cordyceps as well right cordyceps mushrooms grow on other things yeah but the cordyceps mushrooms when they grow on the worms this is something that was a big subject of debate because because quarter substances is a it's it's it's a mushroom that

► 01:43:47

I was on a worm basically caterpillar kind of Polack larvae and that and the Himalayas elsewhere in China and the Far East and people were finding these quarter steps mushrooms and they were cloning them and then they got the culture going and then they analyze the culture and they got what's called an animorph it's not that complicated just two faces of the same coin there's a mushroom fruit body and then there's this imperfect form that is a different looking

► 01:44:17

ISM but they're actually the same they have two different Expressions when they all the scientific literature kept on coming up with different Animorphs so they all had all this competition the scientific literature what is the true animorph of cordyceps sinensis has well now it's called official cordyceps sinensis they redefined it's called sensu stricto and when they analyzed the the mushrooms not until recently discovered that another fund a group of fungi are chasing the cordyceps sinensis as

► 01:44:47

is the fruit body develops other fungi are chasing right behind the other fungus so you have multiple fungi that are actually present in the court of steps worm is not just one species is multiple species that are co-occurring chasing each other in the inside the cordyceps mushroom as is fruits so again it just speaks to the complexity of nature so so what where should you get your cordyceps source and for health benefits you know

► 01:45:17

that's a really good question of cordyceps militarists does not have these issues that cordyceps sinensis does the problem is cordyceps sinensis thousands of Articles have been published really which one they're talking about it's like us all mixed up now what is what a true animal for these scientists using their one's called basilio my sees you know there's other other ones that her her to tell us announces is now thought to be the true anamorphic or substances well all this lingo means is basically there's a mushroom with a whole bunch of other fungi there

► 01:45:47

sociated with it and when the culture of these other fungi they did clinical studies or research studies and they came up with results the problem is that they've mix it up into four or five different species and you can't sort of d a disambiguation the data now because it's too complicated so it's a really good question the course of military has does not have these issues and so I would steer people to cordyceps militarists right now because the cordyceps sinensis the off your quadriceps and those issues are

► 01:46:17

still complicated and now virtually thousands of research articles are an all now suspect because no one has a foggiest idea what animorph they were using oh wow so I guess speaks to the complexity of the system so and how many people are actually working on this data 200 thousands of researchers and and I'm thankful that the Chinese Mycologist sort of over the ones who finally sort of the salt hmm it was a lot of conflict academically there's a lot of big Egos and Academia mmm

► 01:46:47

people get wedded to their own research you know we're all like that and and the challenges went back and forth and fortunately a group of Chinese scientists finally were able to narrow down the argument to understand that everyone was actually doing good culture work they were actually expert Mycologist taking the right tissue taking it from the right cordyceps mushroom it's just that at that time that a different fungus that was naturally part of the inside of the mushroom that was a mixture of fungi that

► 01:47:17

were racing different Paces up the mushroom well the Chinese were the first to use it for a performance benefit right or there were the first to at least be publicized to use it in the Olympics they were using cordyceps mushrooms that that was one of the reasons why it on it we developed room Tech sport which is cordyceps mushroom based supplement which I love cordyceps for workouts for pre workout it's like it gives you an extra gear it's really kind of crazy how effective it is especially in combination with B12

► 01:47:47

and other adaptogens it just has it's a great pre-workout supplement because it doesn't get you jittery at all it's not a stimulant but you have like a little more juice when you exercise and that's one of the things that those high altitude hurting populations have found right that's exactly right it's likely to be a vasodilator and it has steroidal like benefits as well so yeah the quarter sets for for athletes has been tried and true and many of these Animorphs that I mentioned have those properties

► 01:48:17

so for athletes like what dose would you recommend like what I'm not a medical doctor so when people ask me recommendations I know that the common usage of these and the Order of 2 grams you know there are usually 500 millimeter milligram capsules there's lots of good companies that are producing this you know I would just make sure it's mycelial base as not fruit body-based the the clear evidence is showing the the problem one find out whether something is my silly you base your sister Clara

► 01:48:47

we say mushroom mycelium on all of our labels sew it and if you were going to take that like if you wanted to take shroom tech support if you wanted to make your own concoction you would recommend two grams and then it make sure you had no the chain of custody of where it came from because a lot of these companies by in the spot Market what company is this that you gave me the most defenseless defense is this yours yes your company okay well support you host events and there's their website where someone can grab this go fund me.com or host defense.com and do

► 01:49:17

you sell cordyceps as well yes we do there you go and do you take this stuff before you exercise do you take absolutist helps yeah I'll take a quarter steps I take lion's mane and seven species blend in particular seven species blend what's in that stuff it's stamped 7 it's got a scotch Agha this Cadre she has a gerakan is got a birch polypore called it the poor spatula - and so it has maitake in it

► 01:49:47

these are this is seven species blend but the the evidence for Physicians and people who want to look at peer reviewed articles the single species have the most elaborated and convincing evidence when you start compounding these so what we're doing we have five or six volt I'm researchers several phds in our staff we are again trying to disambiguate the complexity of all these benefits by looking at once

► 01:50:17

species out of time so we're doing this methodically spending hundreds of thousands of dollars literally a year now I have a hundred and ten employees and I created my company in order to do research I have no Partners so I can now dedicate the resources to be able to do novel research and we love going up against conventional wisdom because you have to challenge conventional wisdom to see if it's indeed meets the mustard for instance beta-glucans how big is a beta glucan

► 01:50:47

10,000 Dalton's a million but I've no idea what any of those words you just said were they did weekends are here are big Polymers of sugars okay and so the big myth out there is a beta glucans are the golden compound that used to standardized products to but there is not a certified method for beta glucan analysis we have an article coming out also on a 17 species plan using the same it's called the megas I'm test the same magazine test with

► 01:51:17

with going at the same exact test to the same samples one sample got less than 1% the other sample got more than 30% that that is a disparate range of data that is not give you any confidence and so the beta glucan method how big is the beta glucans little bit because that are giant scaffolding it's like the structure of this building and and inside that scaffolding as all these other compounds

► 01:51:47

sounds that are adornments that are that are embedded in this giant scaffolding and so we did a clinical study with turkey tail mushrooms and breast cancer that was published in a peer-reviewed journal and the scientists that I worked with can Quail at Al 19 2016 I think published an article where they use a lip Paces which is an enzyme that dissolves lipids because I was arguing the beta glucans are huge scaffolding these other components

► 01:52:17

this is how the beta glucans that are immunologically active you know and they they had been reading the literature all predominantly beta-glucans I said well let's do an experiment and they did they took the ball and ran with it and then they put this this fat dissolving enzyme lip paces and they strip the lipids the fats from the beta glucan and Scaffolding and then they took that product without the lipids and it reduced immune

► 01:52:47

Ponce by 83% thus proving that the lipids that were inside the beta glucans were pharmacologically happened now the why that's important if you do hot water extracts you don't get fats you know fast is not miscible and water and so that's why fat separate so having these fats and we're made of fat cholesterol is good for you fats are good for you wait what are you saying that these I whether you're a Paleo guy right so you know this you know from the fats or yeah I don't care if I don't like that

► 01:53:17

paleo because I think it's a little inaccurate like what people ate during the Paleolithic I like calling it primordial yeah that's a good one Primal you know some people call the Primal Primal diet yeah but this is speaks to the fact that the every mushroom species is like a miniature pharmaceutical Factory and what makes a species is the accumulation of those compounds that are different mixtures there's around

► 01:53:47

1.5 million species of fungi a hundred and fifty thousand species are mushroom for me fungi we've identified around 15,000 species of this 15,000 species we have about 20 to 40 species that we know are beneficial for human health let's a pretty good selection criteria be coming from 14,000 then if I species are potentially a hundred fifty thousand out there we haven't identified most of them but our ancestors to trial and error have narrowed the field of candidates down to about 20 to 40

► 01:54:17

these that we know because of their molecular arrangements and complexity benefit human health now it's when people pick mushrooms and they go out and pick mushrooms the real issue seems to be that there's some mushrooms that are edible that look very close to mushrooms very similar to mushrooms that are very poisonous true to the uninitiated and the people who have not learned but once you learn the chantrelle you will not mistake it nothing looks like a lion's mane mushroom once you learn a lion's mane

► 01:54:47

shroom is hard to mistake it so there are some look-alikes and with the Amanita phalloides the destroying Angel and with the Paddy straw mushroom which is commonly cultivated in collected in Asia many of the mushroom deaths in North America of come from not displaced but people's but people who've come from Asia and because they're secretive in the language barrier and the culture of being wild collectors they then mistake the destroying angel

► 01:55:17

Joel for a Paddy straw mushroom that's a real common mistake there are other people who said they will just look terrible that's a really dangerous thing to say so you have to know species individually right there's a there's edible species of Amanita and there's poisonous ones hmm there's deadly poisonous ones Amanita seems to have a lot of controversy as far as its efficacy far as like it's psychedelic efficacy what's that that I don't know anybody that's ever really tripped off of it muscaria or M&M's yeah oh man do I have a story

► 01:55:47

three please oh my God because everybody that I know like and that was something that McKenna talked about as well Terrence talked about while he was alive they said that it seems that it's genetically variable seasonally variable perhaps even environmentally variable all those things are partially true I've eaten Emily muscaria four or five times Mammy miscarry is the red mushroom with a white dots that are telling mushroom is that perfectly legal in Santa Claus mushroom it contains Musa more muscular and Andy Bettina casa

► 01:56:18

actually very little small amounts of musk run but the muscarinic symptoms cause salivation and sweating and I trip with my friend on on em in a mascara and and I looked at him and he was foaming at the mouth and I had all these bubbles coming out of his mouth I got man dude you look like you have rabies he goes you should see what you look like so but then Emily muscaria I've eaten out a few times and people do boy

► 01:56:47

boil it in water throw away the water twice and they can make it into edible mushroom but it's not that great of an edible but there's another mushroom called Emily Panther Arena Panther arena is a kick-ass mushroom it has five times or more the amounts of amou Somali botanic acid almost no muss current so the salivation effect an enemy muscaria so I have a had a very good friend we are not friends anymore unfortunately but

► 01:57:17

I was in charge of the herbarium at The Evergreen State College and I freeze tried em the panther Arena they're called Panther cops there are brown in color and they have dots very good the panther cop perfectly legal mushroom an extraordinarily powerful so I was up living up in Darrington Washington at his cabin I was a logger hippie for a few years and so my friend Dave came up and I had these freeze dried mushrooms from the herbarium and I said let's go ahead and eat these

► 01:57:47

and I'd read in the literature and almost no one had eaten them so we made an omelet and I we cooked it up and he was much lighter than me so I thought well I should have two-thirds of the omelet right because he's lighter than me and so we ate the mushrooms and on 10 o'clock and we're living in this cabin but across the creek was a scarce wire Creek Campground and it was the we call from the Winnebago people right back then in the 70s I hitchhiked across country 13 times never Winnebago never pick me up

► 01:58:17

so they're always at the enemy and so we were long-haired hippies you know we date these mushrooms and we thought for entertainment let's go look at the Winnebago people so we it was so close I don't know why we drove our car but we drove the car out of my cabin we went down like a half a mile we turn left into the Squire Creek Campground and Ascent we parked the car and we wanted to go up to a beautiful view spot and so we walk through

► 01:58:47

through the Winnebago people and their families and everything else and we get up onto a ridge and we thought this is a great view spot we're waiting like an hour no effect you know and I thought the Dave's a while maybe these aren't that potent and then right after we said that

► 01:59:06

I looked out Dave and I said David you see that he goes yeah and we wait a few more seconds than his big Distortion field and we have a beautiful view of the volcanoes and the valleys are big view skate but we could see the air with had become observe this liquid and then it started coming on stronger and stronger and stronger I'm like oh my God this is getting intense we better get the heck out of here go go home where it's safe because this is coming on so strong

► 01:59:36

so we come down off this little this little plateau and we had to come down through the Winnebago people

► 01:59:43

and then oh my God and here we're walking the thing about am Anita's and mascara gun Panther Arena you have doll yellows and Browns but you feel like this giant and you're moving in slow motion every step you're taking you know you feel like this giant by moving really slow and and then I came to winnebagos of no end there were hundreds of feet long I'm trying to water passes but obey go and like when is this Winnebago and I end I keep on walking further and further and then

► 02:00:13

oh my God and so then we're really just really really high was ridiculous I had a really Flex camera and we came up to the car and so for some friggin reason I locked the car and so I had my key I looked at my key and I look at the Lock I want missed shit okay pull the key back missed but Dave goes you okay I go I'm fine because you want me to drive and I go no way dude I'm

► 02:00:43

besides there's no way I want you to drive right and I did it over and over again the magically just for repetition it just made in the lock so I unlocked the door and I get into the car and I dropped my camera and I'm in the car and I'm trying to get my key in and thank God I didn't get Mikey and I was not safe to drive and then Dave is going like oh my God Paul or so freaking high right now and I go it's like well let's go home I said that drop my camera and I went

► 02:01:13

looks like Ron there's my camera I picked it up and going on Dave I dropped my camera drop my camera again ah devs are dropped my camera picked up my camera go whoa drop my camera did this over and over and over again repetitive motion syndrome kicked in it is a very common symptom of amateur Panther Arena I dropped my karma dozens and dozens of times how'd it look at the end well it was shattered but Dave

► 02:01:43

goes up Paul you should look up and a whole bunch of people from the Winnebago family community had lined up holding their children in close proximity watching this repetitive motion syndrome where I'm just constantly picking my camera so they're watching you for entertainment where you went to watch them for entertainment and now the freaking out because I have this repetitive motion syndrome and I take one step at drop my camera I wanted to have I dropped my camera and I pick up my camera again I got that I just dropped my camera whoa drop my

► 02:02:13

again this speaks to the Berserkers and the Berserkers the word Berserk came to the Berserkers and Scandinavia where the legend has it that there were these the Scandinavians the Vikings were surrounded and outnumbered and there were going to be killed the next day and they ate a whole bunch of em need a mascara and a big big soup and Legend has it and it's not been confirmed but this is the legend this very commonly reiterated is that they drank a whole bunch ending

► 02:02:43

muscaria soup and then they went and the next day even though they're massively out numbered they took off all their clothes and the attack the enemy naked with swords and that's where the word Berserk came from the Berserkers so I'm having this Berserker experience a repetitive motion syndrome and I'm dropping my camera over and over and over again and and I looked up and leave parents were holding their children or totally freaking out you know I said we gotta get out of here so we left the doors open and the car and I'm taking one or two steps drop him

► 02:03:13

camera picking it up dropping my camera we finally made a pact he disappeared I didn't know if the Dave you're on your own on dude I haven't had I have enough to worry about now I made it back to my cabin and I guess my cabin and there's a combination lock oh no I don't need a combination lock right now I can barely you know I'm spending walk back and forth between Michael and then eventually the lock just spontaneously opened and then I fell on the ground and I started convulsing and the cool thing about convulsing those it felt good every time I

► 02:03:43

convulsed I actually went I feel so good and so it involves some more and I was just convulsing constantly like epileptic conductor convulsions very very intense but they felt good this is the weird thing about it I needed to convulse because every time I convulse I kind of got a reset of my neurology you know I'm a Baseline and then it would spin out of control and then I had this Cascade of iced in ice tinian thoughts I'm going oh my God I can save the world I know how to do this and they don't have a prepositional or in verbal phrase

► 02:04:13

and just before I came to the object of my thought that was einsteinian Insight out have a tension and then I'll come to the course of the end of that sentence and then I have another tangent I saw death as a as a Perpetual series of Alternatives that never gave me the satisfaction of a conclusive thought and sobs I was just lasted for about us 12 hours you know I fainted I went into a coma-like state so you recommend it

► 02:04:43

do not recommend and they're the biggest concern beside the repetitive motion syndrome is hypothermia because if you're out in the woods or something and you're exposed you're not getting up so your you go and it's called soma for a reason it's the Soma mushroom is some difference it causes that what Soma is this isn't there some debate as to what some actually is that's what our Gordon Wasson proposed some Vedic literature there's a big debate about that but the other story I like to tell is my friend dr. Andrew Weil was at the cougar hot

► 02:05:13

things and and Oregon and and he's a medical doctor from Harvard and he was walking the trail and people came running down to oh my God this guy's trying to kill himself I got to come up and Andy went up this guy had to eat in a whole bunch of a venomous carry on big biker dude and it covered with blood and he was up on a bridge and he was swinging his legs back and forth it is above the Rocks a threw himself off the bridge don't you now is only about 6 or 8 feet but it's enough onto the boulders down below

► 02:05:43

smash himself on the rocks and then he climbed back up on the bridge and he swung his feet and threw himself off the bridge so this this causes repetitive motion syndrome most of my camera Etc is it much on this perfectly legal as probably one of the most dangerous mushrooms that anyone could use I definitely advise not doing this because I always thought if I was ever called as expert witness having these experiences and someone who was watching Tales from the Crypt on

► 02:06:13

she and then they saw a knife it's causes temporary insanity really I mean it's also add mushrooms are wonderful they're peaceful they're loving as an empathic oh right but the Amanita mushrooms cause this strange strange sort of behavior that is really potentially dangerous and that is the mushroom that was documented in the sacred Mushroom in the cross were gianmarco Allegro alleged that he alleged that

► 02:06:43

the entire Christian religion was essentially misunderstanding it was really all about the consumption of the Psychedelic mushrooms and fertility rituals and at these were all sort of captured and stories and tales and Parables and it was academic suicide for him now with that statement and still very controversial you read the his work yes I have what do you think well linguistically the guys way over my head Ryan Reed has his book it's all about

► 02:07:14

the translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls Way Beyond my Ken of knowledge it's so far beyond my kind of knowledge I can't make Rhyme or Reason out of it that seems to be the problem with it most people can't so but and there's threads of Truth and all of this but I don't buy it you know on its face on the ground the obvious conclusion that he made but clearly mushrooms have inspired religion yes and I teach these workshops on Gourmet and medicinal

► 02:07:43

mushrooms and one of these workshops is very spiritual guy he's very quiet but very definitely you know walked just looked like the real deal he waited until everyone was gone and I said Paul I've been sent here

► 02:07:58

I said really says I'm a devout Christian

► 02:08:03

I'm in Billy Graham's Inner Circle

► 02:08:06

and a bunch of us take psilocybin mushrooms of sacraments and it's brought us rise it's brought us closer to Jesus closer to our religion now I don't care if you're Muslim or Christian or Hindu the idea of these mushrooms making you feel this the spiritual Universe more spiritually connected giving your cultural heritage in your reference points but he said these are extremely important now my mother was a Charismatic Christian I met some people

► 02:08:36

in her group who came to their religious beliefs through psychedelics don't just like it looks now but that's was their portal they had their big revolution through psychedelics so the the connection between psilocybin and magic mushrooms and religion I think has a lot of credibility and has lots of great examples of that the specificity of some of the arguments people make I have great great doubts about

► 02:09:06

hmm that's interesting what about in the ancient Hindu religions the ancient Hinduism and the some of the ancient books speak of various sacraments that have sort of never been defined right yeah and why is that Brahman cows are sacred you know when this law should be commences grows out of cow poop right India and yet they won't eat cows and Buddha supposedly died from a mushroom he was and he was given a mushroom by a peasant and and just in the mushroom and died you know that

► 02:09:36

and so there is a connection I always thought curious that the Selassie convinces is such a religious provoking mushroom and yet cows are highly revered as being sacred well I would think you would keep the mother of the mushroom sacred you know you want to protect the resource but again these are at times when when fables and Parables and and religious rights were controlled by the cognoscenti and they were The Gatekeepers of knowledge that was too powerful for the general population

► 02:10:06

population to understand or appreciate and so they protected that knowledge and that's that's the rule of most religions is that the Inner Circle you know holds the keys to the kingdom and what's happened with Orthodox religions is they create institutions where you have to pay tithing 's in order to have a gatekeeper just to have a contact with God and that I think is the problem of monotheism versus polytheism Jack Herer before he died was working on a book about psychedelic drugs

► 02:10:36

typically mushrooms and and religious experiences and they had some really crazy old paintings that he had found that showed people that were naked seemingly dancing in Ecstasy with a translucent Mushroom around them and the idea being that this is supposed to this this image was supposed to represent someone who is tripping there's a lot of really interesting books that have been published that show are

► 02:11:06

art you know going back hundreds of years even you know into the into the late 1300s showing you know Christian art were mushrooms are pretty easily seen so there's a lot of history that but but it becomes the unfathomable I mean I maybe you can imagine it to be true but how can you prove it to be right how can you yeah so a lot of that is like it's great historical information probably

► 02:11:36

a lot of it's true hard to say which is which is true which is not but it's a good example right yeah but in modern times now Johns Hopkins the clinical studies are on mysticism spirituality showing that these were some of the most spiritually significant experiences of people's lives the interesting thing about the Johns Hopkins studies is that 70% of the people had positive experiences and 14 months later they still described his experiences as being significantly positive their

► 02:12:06

ends their colleagues their fellow workers also say that materially change these people's personality but the 32 pain that people had negative experiences the negativity of experience did not extend more than experience itself so this is speaks to re remembering and what has been determined is when you have these really profound spiritual experiences it sits with you and when you re remember it you rekindle that thought this may be a way of overlaying PTSD rather than have the reference standard that's associated with

► 02:12:36

you supplanted with a positive experience but the people who had negative experiences during tripping did not have a negative that negative consequences did not extend more than the experience itself so this was whistles are profound insight and so John Hopkins Roland Griffiths just emailed me recently they have other clinical studies that are ongoing looking and one which just got published on meditators given placebos versus getting high dose of psilocybin and then

► 02:13:06

measuring the consequences of those experiences months or a year or two later and again the same thing as reinforced these psilocybin mushroom experiences create a positive reference point that you can capitalize on by re remembering them subsequent from this experience by not even having to take the mushrooms again mmm that is profound when you have a happy memory that you can anchor your personality on it's a game changer

► 02:13:36

yeah I just wonder if we're ever going to see in our lifetime centers where you can go and a trained professional can guide you through something like this happening now is it yes the California Institute of Integrative studies and the the based in San Francisco was training therapists and Canada there are therapists in Europe there are therapists there are training programs now in psychedelic therapy this is something that is has a tremendous momentum

► 02:14:07

indigenous peoples have a really nice structure many of them do not all but many have a really good structure for the responsible use of these substances us that are displaced Peoples eye with cause european-based people and many other people displaced we don't have the same constructs historically that we can operate within and so the psychotherapist movement is huge right now Canada's leading the way the Canadian government is very very positive

► 02:14:36

towards psychedelic therapy because the opioid crisis and because significant results is in the movie This has come out called dosed and it attracts a heroin addict young lady and Vancouver it is a heroic movie it is not one of these you kind of feel good at the end of the movie but it is it is it is intense and she's doing iboga and she also does high doses of mushrooms but the opioid crisis

► 02:15:06

so pervasive they're so poor treatments available that through the Psychedelic therapies and several days they're saying a tremendous success and people breaking in a decades-long opioid addiction within a week and so the Psychedelic therapist are integral to that success and so there are there are clinics now a rising all over the world for this and Portugal and Mexico Spain in

► 02:15:36

akka there the clinics are arising specifically to meet the needs of people who are trying to get these legally so they don't get in trouble with the law so in Portugal and Spain in Jamaica for instance these are legal many of these substances are well what gives me a lot of Hope is that everything seems to be trending in a positive direction like all these things that you're saying your own personal experiences from Ted from 2008 versus 2019 all these different treatment patterns or Pathways that are available now the people that were never before and that we're starting

► 02:16:06

see an acceptance overall just the general population people understand what this is and that this might literally be the cure to what ails us I am for people out there who have not gone on a deep psilocybin experience this is very important for me to emphasize and after you do a heroic journey of psilocybin the next day when you look at those mushrooms you say no way

► 02:16:36

hey dude I'm not touching those for yeah long time give me six months I'll come back to him their anti Addicted by their nature because it's so perfect I saw her fall so powerful and profound and you've gone through the gauntlet and back yeah you're not ready to do it again and so how many drugs that can have such a dramatic impact that our non-addictive that can break addictive Cycles with other drugs I think this is a gateway a great gateway to opportunity for solving many of the ills of our society I couldn't agree more

► 02:17:06

anything else for get out here and I just want to thank you and your audience for Having the courage to bring these subjects to the table and a coherent fashion we don't have all the answers we will make mistakes I think it's really important that we take we are the adults in the room we see somebody spending off the rails rather than being judgmental go up and put your arm around them saying hey there's better benefits from this I fully understand why people want to party

► 02:17:36

e with them especially when they're younger they're going the coming of age but as you mature these are really important for your own sanity and for the health of your community and your family psilocybin mushrooms make nicer people I think that's a great way to say it and I agree and I think it should be on a t-shirt maybe a bumper sticker and I want to thank you man without your knowledge and information and the way you're able to so eloquently Express all these

► 02:18:06

he has a lot of people would know a whole lot less so it's a team effort it's just not me as a whole as a whole is an uprising so the mycelial underground that's reaching up and telling people and sharing with her friends so check out the movie fantastic fun guy it's really good and Dost to good movies that speak to this and your website once again fun join.com funds i.com Paul stamets ladies and gentlemen thank you Paul all right thank you brother thank you bye

► 02:18:36

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