#551 - Graham Hancock

Sep 18, 2014

Graham Hancock is an English author and journalist, well known for books such as "Fingerprints Of The Gods" & "Entangled" and also a new fiction book called "War God"

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providers just this big company and they have their rules and if you don't if you go over your cost you money if you you know there's a bunch of weird shit that goes on like if you want to cancel you have to pay some sort of an early termination fee Tings removed all that no early termination fees no cancellation fees you just cancel that said if you don't want to be a part of them anymore you're gone you don't have contracts you don't have any of that stuff you use what you use and that's what you pay for you don't have like x amount

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The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day my friends Graham Hancock I'll take these off since you're not wearing them good to see you buddy nice to see you Joe good to be back good to see you returning from floating I saw your Tweet which showed a picture of looks like someone was in space yeah cuz that's all I felt that's how it felt to me now I have to thank you for this because you're the guy who turned me on to floating I never did it before you spoke to me about it last

are I was so harassed and so rushed and never got I never got a chance to do it I thought I'd do it when I got back to England it didn't happen so I got in touch with your friend crash few weeks before I came out here and he very kindly fitted me in and I think this place is called float lab yeah Technologies are in the fall they're there in Venice Beach so it's a totally new experience for me and what made the experience even more surreal and special because I had asked for an appointment fairly late in the day was that I mean

he needed more notice he's constantly booked up yes own amazing what he could give me was the two rooms one for myself one for my wife saw her @midnight @midnight two nights in a row and actually there's something about floating at midnight which I think is really is really special I don't do any floating during the day right right it's a really good time it's a really good time to do it yeah so we went along to Venice Beach and park the car and crash came out and took a set of first of all he's

this is collection of African masks and he has got the most amazing slightly fearsome collection of African masks up there that's really incredible actually yeah this is a deep guy he's he's a trip thinking about a lot of a lot of stuff and yeah I've never I've been I've spent a lot of time in Africa I've never seen a collection like that it's just just amazing dog on you know some of the really fascinating peoples and their and their massed then he takes us down he talks us through what it is so you know you go into this

room and in it I've seen in some places they have like a pod where you close are you close a lid over himself but that's not what he's got he's got a bigger room than that and there's a big full-size feels like a huge metal safe if you have trust issues you know it's a little bit you got it you're going to close yourself up in a huge metal safe in the darkness it takes a little bit you know a little bit of Courage is I would say is required to do that at midnight on Venice Beach but we did it and and you know we got that at certain

you don't want to get the salty water in your eyes yeah if you do it's a big distraction you don't want to get it in your ears because got a block you so you wear earplugs it doesn't bother me I just go in with my ears I don't worry I think I would prefer to because because the feeling of being completely deaf was slightly was slightly alarming for me although I realize a sensory deprivation is part of the deal yeah and and so you close the door there's a towel hanging off the back of the door in case you do get salty water in

your eyes and then you just lie down in this I guess body temperature saline solution in which it's in which it's impossible to sink and there you are in the darkness completely without without sensation totally by yourself for the first time in a way ever I mean this is the sometimes We're alone but to be completely alone in total darkness yeah suspended in that

amniotic fluid that strange say line saline solution with no Sensations coming in no sounds No Light it's an extraordinary opportunity to meditate to reflect to just Drift Away into another place and not there's the only danger I would say it happened to it I kept I find it difficult to shut down my mind my mind is always running and and a few times it when I was

just wanting to let everything go everyday concerns and worries came back in and started and and started annoying me but most of the time I was able to let go and it felt like I was I was weightless and I was floating floating in space that's why I posted that that picture on Facebook today because that's what it felt like and sometimes I didn't know whether I was horizontal or vertical I felt like I felt sometimes like I was vertically floating vertically it was a very odd sensation I wouldn't say that I got it

in too deeply trippy space but I did have fundamental Visions patterns lights started to started to generate purple purple strips of light started to appear which certainly would not there in the in the darkness with me and that was and that was interesting but most of all it was just very relaxing just very relaxing to let go be completely supported by this soft gentle water to drift drift away into the

terms of the mind it was a wonderful experience and I felt much better about it the second day that I did the first the first day was someone familiarity the second the second night last night was just amazing if that's what it's all about it's all about getting used to the experience and the more you get used to the experience the easier it is to slip into the deeper and deeper States yes it's but the first time it's very alien is so odd and he's also kind of bump against the sides you have to suggesting crashes African masks yeah you probably shouldn't show you those before you

you going a total darkness in a meat locker yeah exactly exactly but yeah yeah the second day the second day so much better and so much so it's made me think maybe I should get myself afloat thing oh you definitely should it's huge I love having one I love knowing that any time I want to go in there I could just go in there are they loads and loads of money or they okay yeah then loads and loads of money yeah well not thousands and thousands of dollars yeah especially the flash ones the crash ones rather the

the original one that I got which was a samadhi tank I think that was like six or seven thousand dollars but crashes are more like 30 okay because he's like a car yeah it's like it's like buying it's like buying a car and it's also it has these incredible filters it set up through like it he has it set up like the one that I have in my house I'm the only one that goes in it but if you it's a commercial grade filtration system right like he filters things through ozone there's all these different

various steps that it takes he's written like an entire like multi on how many pages probably like 50 or 60 page booklet run on the necessity for different types of filtration and you know what he needs he's an obsessive guy yeah and his obsession with tanks has made he's there's a guy in Austin that has some really amazing tanks to that does it a little bit differently he does it through a company that makes boats and

he's a really excellent to but crash is like the leader of the pack he crashed started it out he's the master of the game there was nothing like his stuff when his stuff came out now there's guys like the guy in Atlanta in Austin brother that is elevating his I spent some time there and check out his facility it's beautiful he's friends with my friend Aubrey but the what would crash did was there was no innovation going on in the United States when it came to float technology there was like the standard sumati tank which is really

Lee great I mean it's cool you could definitely get a cool experience in it and there's some some home models that you people had but what he did is he just took everything to the next level and made everything these steel modular boxes that it fits together perfectly more sound deadening more insulation better filtration system stronger reinforced sides because if somebody wants would kind of bow out on the sides a little bit from the water and sometimes they would rot and like you had to get things replaced

he fixed everything yeah he fixed there was an issue with the the Linings would burn out sometimes because of the the heat pads and he pads would short out it would burn through the Linings and they would leak water everywhere right he fixed that by first of all by setting like this redundant system and having to heat pads to so if one burns out you have a second one ready to go and then secondly he put these thick pain filters he doesn't use like the same kind of filters that a lot of people do not filters rather liners right his

is a very thick there for like koi ponds okay so he's done a lot of innovation he's really figured out a lot of different things it's the place to go if you're lucky enough to live in la la well also if you're lucky enough to be able to get in now because now he's booked way in advance that's what I found I mean I wrote to him I wrote to him at least four weeks ago yeah and there were just no slots available during the day he had that's why he gave me the two Midnight's Lots although actually I'm really glad he gave me the midnight slot that's the way to do it late at night so the way I understand he's opening a new unit in

Westwood yes where they'll be 7 yeah well that's not enough no even sevens not enough I mean there's not there's you could open up one somewhere that has 50 and that sucker would be filled all day it was he filled 20 million people in La so there's not so many other people doing this in LA right now there's a few you know I think people are starting to become aware of it now it's a fabulous growing variance we will amazing experience one question I have and wonder about what about if you you know have a

joint before you get in or take some psilocybin what would that do I don't know what it's like to not do that before you go and do that every time yeah I'm not so sorry Ben but I have but the pot is the Edibles the way to go for me okay so deeded about an hour before yeah terrifying supply of Edibles a terrifying dose or usually whoo-hoo what did I do and then I get in there that's what I like to do okay that's what that's what I'd like to do as well if I hadn't given up

punish me years ago makes me very humble there's some something about getting in there just and because I've done it so many times but you know because I have the tank in my house I'm super comfortable I can get relaxed with floating it's a normal thing to me so when you're on the Edibles to it just takes you to these really really really bizarre places no moments of paranoia or fear you just calm there um I mean I wouldn't say that I'm pretty good with that though

in if I had real problems with paranoia and fear I wouldn't be able to do everything I do for a living sure you know I mean everything I do this is live yeah you know everything I do want to do commentary for the UFC that's live Stephen edgy very edgy yeah all these things are all live and you know they're all depend on maintaining your sanity yeah under sometimes pretty intense pressure but so I don't I don't have those

those paranoia of fear issues but I certainly feel the thoughts I just don't indulge them and I feel the thoughts but it's like a lot of way to go not indulge them yeah it's like a lot of psychedelic experiences it's a matter of controlling the mindset and I kind of equate it to just the ability to communicate on the internet and the ability to access information on the internet has led us to this weird place where if you wanted to your day could be filled with horror you

just go every day to the worst possible websites and see the most horrific videos and the most horrific photographs and and see the world in the worst possible light if you chose to just immerse yourself you know just watch the news yeah I mean even worse than news I mean if you really wanted to really change the way you saw the world and you could live on a beautiful tree-lined Street with the nicest neighbors and you know the the cutest little dogs Barkin and the life looks

offal yeah but through the portal that is the internet you can immerse yourself in the most Twisted sadistic minds and and it's like you have this decision to not do that yeah and that's in in in in sort of reinforcing that decision and in and making those choices you build up your resistance to doing things that are negative you build up your resistance to indulging in the negative thoughts and in that sense I think it's good like one of the weirdest things

is have you ever seen someone who's never been in any sort of a conflict type situation but they get thrown into one and they have a panic attack yeah and they hyperventilate and they don't know what to do it's very weird I've seen it happen many times and then I've seen other people that are in panic situations or rather high stress situations a lot and they know how to stay calm and keep cool and I think sometimes your life could depend on it sure Pat very much does a killer Yes scuba diving which I did a lot of panic panic will kill you oh I would imagine it

I'm terrified of scuba diving I've never done it yeah but I would imagine that being a hundred feet down in the ocean where the winds are moving occurrence yeah banging you against rocks and stuff lately that's got to be you lose it down there and you really gone yeah that's a that's a whole nother world I did some snorkeling recently with dolphins right that was in Hawaii and I actually did with my four-year-old to write I took her with me into the water and you know she had this the mask on and everything and she's like looking down

seen the dolphins swimming under us it was amazing really incredibly rewarding did they come and scan you know they didn't but they just swam underneath us right you know they really didn't give a shit about us that's really kind of what are those weird looking things up there they just you know it's kind of it's an eye-opener like how little of a shit Dolphins carry they don't care about you man as long as you're not trying to capture them the like more people whatever yeah because what the boat you know the key

near the boat I've been around them though when they're very playful to like we're fishing once and they were jumping by the boat and being really playful with us this was a totally different experience this was they just pretty much in different but so beautiful like just being around them hundreds of dolphins yeah and you're looking at them swimming underneath you yeah but yeah I can imagine that panic in that world well something goes wrong you know with at depth in a current if you panic you literally are dead

that's when you have to stay steady and that's that's the power of the mind you have to it's mind over matter you have to you have to

impose your mind on that on that on that situation because you know I don't know why actually if you know we have all this Evolution why we panic I mean they would have thought millions of years of evolution would have got rid of that terrible dangerous thing called yeah but actually it's there as well find something Kate though is so necessary it sharpens your reflexes it's one of the things about Fighters is that a fighter going into a fight and not being nervous can be incredibly dangerous yes and when I was competing there were moments that I was

too confident and I went in and I couldn't compete right I didn't I couldn't and I also couldn't snap myself out of it like there's a level that you achieve when you're really nervous and you're not sure of what the outcome is going to be there's like a level of reaction and of intensity that you achieve when you go into the into a competition where you're scared will you perform so much better right right and then there's like when you're super confident yeah you look there's something that happens when you're not nervous at all you can't get up for it a good so we're

weird thing that happened right so that adrenaline is I think it's a necessary component it gives you that extra charge it's just about managing that and management regime very difficult interesting I watched told you a few moments ago I watched this Hickson Gracie movie choke called choke and that's one of the things that he said quite early on in the movie he said actually he's always afraid he doesn't say I am a Fearless person he says he says I'm always afraid yeah and and yeah it's managing its

it's managing that and what a formidable fighter that guy yeah he's an amazing guy too we had on the podcast recently him and my friend Eddie Bravo together it was a just a huge treat for me as a martial arts lifelong martial arts practitioner and fan because he's a real master fascinating fascinating guy that documentary I recommend that to everybody even people that don't do martial arts like yourself you wait how did you hear about it okay well my son-in-law Jason Cyrus duh

does mix martial arts he he does particularly Brazilian jiu-jitsu at a place called the MMA clinic in London and he does it three four times a week he's very very very devoted to it and he's been talking me through a lot of these issues over the last year and I get it I get I get why he loves it and I think it's been I think it's been a really great thing for him and I think it's a really really great thing for anybody there was a time in my life when I did do a martial art I did

I got to brown belt in my very early 20s and then I quit I don't quite sure why I traveled I went away I'd lost the practice and then in my 40s I went back to it and I work my way back up to two green belt but Aikido is a different thing from from this this real grappling I mean it's resilient Jiu-Jitsu what I see is two two people who are interlocked and their their sense the sensing each other each other's movements all the time is that you can't you can't predict what's going to happen

next in any in any way and and I understand that it's a kind of meditative thing also that that if the if you actually start thinking I imagine our because I don't do it but this what my son-in-law tells me if you start thinking while you're in there in that grapple with that other very strong very dangerous person I don't think that's really good I think you have to not be have to not be thinking you have to be acting somehow on muscle memory on on Instinct on experience you're not really thinking through your next move or are you I don't know

sometimes you're thinking but a lot of times you are reacting on in in what you try to do is Achieve sort of a Zen State Flow State and when you're at your best you're in that flow state where sometimes you'll be in a position where you don't even realize how you achieve the position you just you just instinctively did and it's instinctive based on thousands of repetitions many many hours of Matt time am at times very important Matt time being the actual Spa

airing itself right because the the rolling the grappling sparring you you understand like the language of human interaction like there's a there's an interaction between a person attacking a person defending and there's this like this thing that goes on we kind of figure out yes and this is something that in daily life in our modern technological Society most people have no experience of at all they never in a in a fight situation right never ever having to having to deal with

so if they suddenly find themselves in a situation of danger attacked on the street they're not going to have faintest idea what to do no well hopefully that never comes up anyway not but the benefits extend outside of that in my opinion the benefits are it's it's It prepares you for like the the drama of regular life pales in comparison to the real drama of training and of competing inside the

gymnasium like because essentially every time someone does Jiu-Jitsu they're competing every time you you Spar even if you spar with a very good friend you're still competing you know you you get used to this struggle and that's something that most people don't they don't have in their life right and in having that struggle and in this competition it makes the regular stress that people go through the stress of bills and

of relationships and it alleviates and mitigates a lot of the issues that people have because the the life-or-death struggle of someone trying to choke you and you battling it out and you're tired you're exhausted and you're trying to remain calm and catch your breath and defend and trying to stay cool and trying to figure out what's the proper defense for this situation and how to turn this around and how to get back to a better spot it's it's so harrowing and it's so it's so stressful

but in a good way so you're totally in the moment yes oh yeah totally in the moment no thinking of all the other shit some girl you dated when you're in high school where she now you're not thinking about that you know all the bills you gotta pay or no no you're not thinking about any of those things and in that sense it is very meditative and that alleviates a lot of the stress of life and then when it's all over you just kind of you feel very relaxed because your you spent all this excess energy that I believe people I mean it's not a scientific way of looking at the human body but I think of the human

body in a lot of ways as sort of like a battery yeah and a lot of people's batteries or overflowing with juice because you don't use them you sit down sedentary state in front of a computer all day which is pretty bad for your back and you stare at a screen and you do your work and then you sit in your car or on the train or whatever to get home and then you sit in front of the television that's that's a lot of people's lives absolutely that's not normal for a body and the body is supposed to be moving while you're young and alive and why you have energy

supposed to be your body wants to be involved in activities your body wants to go hiking and do things and and if it doesn't it atrophies and shrivels up and it stops being functional and when you can get all that energy out in a training session it does a couple things one it strengthens your body so that if you ever do have to use it for something even if something as simple as like picking things up or you know just strength to help move something yeah you have that but to you you alleviate

all the excess energy you drain the battery a bit and by draining the battery you put more juice in the battery for the future like the battery has like a higher threshold and then you also like you could deal with stuff easier yeah like when I don't train if I don't exercise if I don't do some sort of rigorous rigorous physical exercise like at least a few days a week I react differently to stress right you start getting snappish and yeah well I get more irritated than I should affects me more than should but when when I train

rain like if I train a lot of everything is pretty easy yeah I've seen this effect on my son-in-law it's his couple of years now after doing this he's been it's really transformed him it's really really great thing and I wish I mean I'm 64 years old I don't know I don't think I can go and do that stuff now I don't know if you found another 64 year-old Yeah okay or are I could work with one with one personal one personal teacher you know to you know to who would understand my level I see I see huge advantages in doing it I think

I've got more and more interested in it over the last couple of years it's really fascinating thing and also tell me about this I mean in a way you're being a warrior in there you know so a in a way it's a warrior thing I mean this is a contentious issue the human race we've been around in anatomically modern form for the last 200,000 years for a lot of that time our young men in many societies have been

have been called to Warfare in one form or another I would say that it's gone on long enough for it to be a fundamental part of The Human Experience actually in our society today A lot has a lot has worked to move that aside and probably that's a that's a very good thing although we still do have war of course but it's done at a distance largely it's done it's not I mean I'm writing I'm writing now

all about the Spanish conquest of Mexico at the moment I am dealing with I'm getting inside the heads of Warriors and those guys are on the battlefield hand-to-hand with edged weapons that kind of experience of battle and warfare doesn't happen I think much in Modern Warfare today it's you know it's more the guy remotely pirate think piloting a drone and shooting people shooting people from it from a distance but maybe there is maybe there is a warrior need in us which which can be measured

met in a harmless and positive way on the mat in something like mixed martial arts that's what I'm coming to would you agree with that it's very possible that there's something to that I think that it's very possible that there's something to the idea that we have ingrained in us a certain amount of experiences based on the genetics of all the people that have lived before us and that whatever fight or flight is inside of us whatever mean throughout history like I've been discussing this

friends like how fascinating this time is because throughout history in the past if a boat of stranger showed up it was very dangerous yeah a boat showed up and you like holy shit it's going to get crazy bunch of men climb off the boat you got to hide Women and Children And now when a boat shows up its tourism and everybody gets excited like oh we need their money yeah come on come to this island come to this place yes bring your family yes it's a completely different world that we live in it is and those those

experiences that led us to that led the human race 2014 these experiences of people pirate showing up and Viking showing up and all those dangerous people showing up in these different places you know people coming over the hill all an army's coming that was just a part of being a human being for the long as they're not for a very long time have you seen this new thing that was going on about the autopsy of which king of England Richard the second or we should the third yeah they found his bones which is really a

amazing man they found his bones like they found it under like a parking lot or something like that parking lot yeah how's the craziest yeah how do they know it's him I think that there's there's a long tradition regarding him and the battle that he was killed in and there's a famous there's even a Shakespeare play where he's at the end of the battle saying famously my horse my horse a horse a horse my kingdom for a horse so that he can flee but it seems that he died in face-to-face combat and Yas was hacked to Pieces as far as like what

one of the last of the the Kings to die like that to write it died in combat yeah you would wear in the sort of late 1400s there I would say I would say so I mean combat went on the period I'm writing about early 1500s was brutal and bloody brutal and bloody period a man like Hernan Cortes is a leader but he's a killer you know he's a cold-blooded he's a cold-blooded killer I think that that kind of that kind of experience is Israel today

does it freak you out when you read stuff about like these these days and realize that that that all could happen today we just we need the wrong set of events to take place the we're not far removed as a species from that time in terms of actual history like it's the blink of an eye between then and now absolute link of an eye we are the same people nothing's changed yeah there's been some just be some social changes but look we're still slaughtering people on

you know large scale in large scale levels it's just that it's just that that hand-to-hand face-to-face thing technology has intervened a little bit in that if our society were to go into a radical collapse people could find themselves facing those contingencies very quickly very very very rapidly and it is in fact in a radical collapse and other parts of the world I've been up talk I've been talking about this on stage a lot lately because there's a lot of these this is Duck Dynasty guy

it's hilarious it's Duck Dynasty's in size ridiculous American reality show but one of the main guys on Duck Dynasty he gave this speech this video speech where he was talking about the impending apocalypse and what they call the rapture we can Christians think that Jesus is going to come and he's going to take away everybody that's Christian and bring them to heaven and everybody else going to be stuck on Earth I believe there's a very elite group of going to go a hundred and forty-four thousand of them are going to be

what does that with the ideas hardly and he told people that they should watch this Nicholas Cage movie that's about to come out called Left Behind that's based on this very famous series of books right amongst the Christians left behind Okay and like these these people have a mean he doesn't use somebody who doesn't get raptured is that is that the I guess yeah I don't know it's so fucking stupid it's so stupid it's hurts my brain to talk about it but what's fascinating is that they're all

worried about everyone's worried about the apocalypse the apocalypse the apocalypse the end the end but the apocalypse if you go to certain parts of the world it's there it's there it's in Liberia right now it's in Somalia right now right now listen back in the 1970s I lived in Mogadishu I lived in Somali I lived in that that failed state it was fine place then back then it was fine yeah it was fine why was it fine I mean this is not politically correct but it was run by a dictator and he kept things calm

um you know if well that is that has been the case in many unfortunate scenarios I mean that's what's argued about Iraq then if you looked at Iraq before the US invasion and was largely Superior to what it is now vastly Superior to what it is now again I mean we don't you know kind of not supposed to say these things right honestly for the average Iraqi living in Iraq things were a whole lot better under Saddam Hussein it was peaceful it was there was there was not a lot of inter-religious conflict one of the secular state

it was a secular state in fact quite tolerant and and all you had to do was not get in the face of Saddam Hussein yeah that was the simple that was the simple rule of life just don't get in the face of Saddam Hussein and that was a simple rule of life in Somalia in the 1970s don't get in the face of Siad Barre a if you do I tell you a story see I'd bar a Mohamed Siad Barre was a president of Somalia when I when I went there in 1975 he did a number of interesting things for example the Somali language was not written this was a nomadic Society 70% nomadic

and he introduced a written script for the Somali language based on the Latin alphabet this had not been possible before because religious leaders had said they had to have it in the Arabic script because they were Muslims he just forced that through then he introduced a family law which allowed women to divorce their husbands at that point 11 religious leaders 11 shakes mobilize the public and said they had to rebel against the odd very well what he did he hold those guys out of the mosque of very same day and shot them all well that was the that was the end of that argument and suddenly women whoo

but divorce their husbands and the society was very free and very open one can't imagine today from the scenes of horror that we see from Mogadishu actually how peaceful it was so you know maybe the case that in some in some situations in Iraq is definitely another example you know we in the west are constantly saying we must have democracy democracy as a great thing well maybe it is a great thing at a certain point at a certain level when you're in a society that's very sectarian very divided into tribal interest very divided into different religious groups maybe it's actually more comfortable if you have it

dictator well there's a power vacuum issue that I think the issue is we civilizations largely operate on momentum yeah and when things have been set up in the way that they have been in Iraq on the way they have been obviously in Somalia where there's one guy who's calling all the shots and they kind of got this whole thing established when that guy is not there anymore and and then everyone's scrambling to be the new guy everyone's scrambling creates chaos absolute absolute Griffin

and he'll and it creates this intense violence amongst the people like that they are Iraq the the people that are in that Civil War state that they're at now were various sections of their population are vying for control of this failed State this horrific it's horrific you have this hideous death cult called the Islamic State yeah which may or may not have been initially funded and set up by the United States of America and its allies who knows who knows

nose but it's a death cult and that's had his horrible give a frankly I would rather have Saddam Hussein then the Islamic State yeah it's so crazy thing to say right the one evil is better than the other evil this obviously we're only talking in objective reality terms here we're not we're not like saying hey it's okay to be addicted to no not at all it's evil to be a dictator clearly it's even the same as a terrible person it's evil and wrong and we don't have ideally we moved to a state where we a situation where we have no governments and where people run their own lives and peacefully negotiate with one another but that

isn't the way it's going down in Iraq and it's not the way it's gone down in southern part of Somalia yeah that mean that would be ideal right but it's really hard to run a bunch of people like the idea of society the idea of taking a million people 500 million people whatever the number is and having a group of people that adhere to the best interests of all the folks that are in that society when the their their needs are so varied their resources are so varied there

the their fortune in what situation they find themselves born into yeah it's so very and then you have the people that are fortunate sons and daughters that are trying to keep the unfortunate from getting into their gated community of life so much crazy and you could be sure the dictators sons and daughters are all very well looked after in a dictatorship I'd always happens like Sam's kids like see on berries kids it's always always the case you know that they are and that then generates feelings of anger and fury that that is that that is happening but a situation where just bullets are flying

on the street constantly and you live you live in permanent fear of your life that's not good either yeah the arguments that United States is funded Isis in order to build up support for an invasion of Saudi Arabia or Syria rather a really terrifying and more terrifying because I don't want to look into it because I don't want to know it's a horrible thought yeah like I don't even want to know I know that that kind of shit has happened before so when you see that it's happening now you like

oh fuck is this really going on yeah because that really what's causing you all this is profoundly depressing and and the problem the problem is that we can't really believe anything that our political leaders in the west say I mean they are they have been proven to be absolute Crooks thieves and Liars yeah they lie by instinct or all the time and that prompted problem with constant lying at the top levels of politics is that it pollutes the debate completely you suddenly can't believe anything

sad and that leads to to suspicion of all of all kinds of horrendous possibilities including the funding and setting in motion of this Isis horror yeah it doesn't help when someone like Julian Assange comes along and exposes all these things that a lot of people disagree with and what do they do they try to get them locked up on some trumped-up charges and Export them as if they were really trying to export him from from you know to to Sweden and eventually to the United States because of some sexual thing that

it doesn't even seem so Beau violent it wasn't even rape it was consensual some weird sexual charge like I think they call it surprise sex or something like that it's not they're not even calling it rape right there's one thing like if there was a woman who was saying hey Julian Assange is a piece of shit he drugged me raped me you know okay yeah send that guy Sweden but they're not even saying that this isn't a charge that makes any sense the fact that this guy's been locked up in the embassy in London for all these years it's crazy it's a very crazy

the is a very crazy situation it's really weird to see man it's really weird to see him on television during these Skype interviews and knowing that he's in this Embassy yeah and that the moment he steps out of that they're going to snatch him up yeah it's like he's just being protected by some weird loophole yes yeah well you could take take take sanctuary in an embassy it's an it's an old it's an old law you can't leave like he's gonna have to dig a hole underneath that motherfucker mile out yeah out of the street and then pop out of a manhole there's

them up in a car and take them to Costa Rica or somewhere where they're going to honor now we live in a time when they're just the just constant conspiracy theories I mean there's even conspiracy theories about him you know he is that he is part of the problem rather than part of this of course all of that all of that happens nothing is nothing is bleed anymore and that the problem and that comes from the proven fact that our political leaders are actually Liars the upside to us again and again and and how

and we how can we trust them how can we entrust ourselves to them when they when they behave in that way what's needed is transparency what's needed is open do you think the transparency is going to be an eventuality because of the internet do you think turning yeah I think it is right that gets blown wide open it's very difficult to keep secrets and it also would have roads faith in the leadership when like is this a democracy is this a representative government or is it some sort of a weird dictatorship because of it is a democracy

I see how the fuck are you keeping that guy locked up how is Julian Assange still locked up because why would I need to know please tell me what exactly he did that you need to export him to the United States so he release some information which is our information we have citizens who this is not you know information that should be kept secret it's not from a king it's relation it's information that someone who was being paid with taxpayer dollars did a bunch of shit that the United States

I agree with everyone was upset by the information that was released everyone was upset by that video the collateral murder video everyone was obsessed by this massive amount of data that showed there was a lot of coercion a lot of lies a lot of a lot of stuff that we don't agree with ya and because of that this guy is like Public Enemy Number One that's that's so anti what we think of as the United States completely contrary to everything the United States stands for yeah completely and that and and so in answer to your question I would say

say yes it is some kind of weird dictatorship yeah posturing and posing as a as a democracy because for democracy to be real you have to have complete openness of information people must be told the truth then they can vote and make decisions on the basis of facts what we actually have in our society is the continual very clever massaging and management of information there's so it ceases to be democracy when the voting when the voting public

Blake are fed lies on the basis of which they make their decisions and vote that yeah that isn't democracy anymore that is it and in a way democracies are the worst kind of dictatorship because they have this appearance of Freedom have this illusion of freedom and everybody can say well it's great because I live in a democracy at least if you live in a dictatorship you know you live in a dictatorship and there are certain parameters that you have to work your way around but when you live in a dictatorship that is posing as a democracy

see it's more complicated and it's where a lot of people truly believe and act as if it is a democracy but at the very top there's fuckery and manipulation and coercion and money and corporate greed and and interests and the military industrial complex that it's funding all of these Maneuvers and and this people profiting wildly and not to forget all the big corporations big big pharmaceutical corporations all of this about management of management of information that we

that we are given so what the internet offers is the opportunity for for ordinary people who are not part of the power structure not running a big Corporation to take power back to themselves and that is that is happening and yeah and it's happening in a big way and it's very disturbing to the powers that be yeah people want like an instant change but it is almost instant the the amount of time that we've actually spent having the internet has been pretty brief 1993 ish for ish is when it gave birth yes

yes and then like 2014 where we're at now it's really the only been around in this form for the last decade and like 2004-2005 and then social media allowing people to exchange information in the heat of political crisis yes and they where they've been able to expose things that are happening in real time that ordinarily would be protected absolutely the media there are already there would shelter and filter the information now it's all just coming out and they can't so they have to shut down the whole fucking internet and some

good trees which which which is a very difficult very difficult thing to do now I've seen the the huge shift in power that this has that this has introduced there was a time as as just at my own small level as an author where I would have depended on the Goodwill of the big media in order to get my ideas out there and since my ideas have sometimes been radical and contradictory to the established order of things it was very difficult to do that well I don't need the big media anymore right

absolutely don't need them they're not they're not required at all they're redundant as far as I'm concerned what does what is what is important is the community of like-minded people that I am I am reaching through social social media through Facebook through my through my website not to say that Facebook is perfect because Facebook is very problematic and is itself a large corporation which is filtering and controlling information but at least it's there it's something there's some excellent things that Facebook throw one of the excellent things is that everyone is themselves yes like that is your Facebook account this when you post

this is who you are yeah for the most part I mean obviously this frauds out there sure but a lot of when people are commenting they're commenting using their Facebook into identity so like that's a real person yeah as opposed to Twitter or a lot of message boards and getting trolls and a lot of assholes and posting under fake names and they just there's a lot of people out there that it's like a sport to them yes I like to be shittier to rile people up like that was puzzles me that I come I come across I get relatively little of it on my Facebook page as I have an author Facebook page I have a personal Facebook page

Paige I run them both parallel put the same stuff in both them there's one or two people who kind of haunt me there and just always want to say just always want to say negative and unpleasant things and my viewers go for it guy you know say those things if you want to well you're always going to get that if you're in the public eye and the thing to be aware of is that it's a tremendous waste of unless you're actually doing something evil and someone's trying to expose something which you're clearly not but if you were then that kind of makes sense like these people are Crusaders but it a lot of them

just what you call haters and the United States yeah and the thing about haters is there are all losers yes there's no one that lives a fulfilled successful life with an awesome family a great relationship they're doing what they want to do for a living they're happy and at peace and they also go online and are very simple things and shit on people know they're there it's a mess of wasted energy yes like there and some people are really good at it it's like damn if you put that energy

g into something productive instead of stalking Graham Hancock you know and fucking with them all day you could get a lot of shit done you exactly probably a happier person exactly so the only answer at the receiving end of that is not to feed it yeah no it's not to nourish it with angry or or hurted or her you know hurt responses well that's what they're trying to do you know what saying that's what they'll search you shit your fucking books don't I wipe my ass with your book yeah trying to fuck with you absolutely yeah and they aren't the answer is the answer is

somehow what I try to do sometimes is to just respond with love you know just us it's nice if it's true if it's real and I try to do the same if I can so it has this really hot yeah it's hard but you do also agree I definitely feel this about myself that some of the some of the criticism that I've received even extreme criticism even if it's unbalanced I've benefited from always yeah always because I useful yes it's useful the there's something to learn

earn from that it's nothing else saying you know what doesn't kill you makes you stronger I mean you have to let you have to learn from this it's out there we have to engage in some in some way with criticism I've received an enormous amount of criticism from my work and for the suggestion that was A Lost Civilization and then work that I've done on psychedelics and Altered States Of Consciousness just endless it's not it's nonstop and my view is thank you thank you for criticizing me I appreciate it if there are holes in what I'm saying if my argument is

can a particular area and you're helping me to see that the right response is gratitude to that they really are in a sense working for you and some way because I mean there's been unwarranted criticism that I've received that have made me rethink a lot of things I do even if it's unwarranted they've made me rethink like what is the what is causing this reaction like what's is there anything that I could have done differently that could have avoided that or is this a necessary evil

oh that just comes with the business I guess and it makes you think about things in a more complex way and although that might be uncomfortable I think there's some great benefit of it there's some great benefit from it and once again it's putting us it's putting us into a real social social situation as you say these people are real you know it's like being back in the village in the old days where where you might be directly criticized by one or other of your fellow villagers well now I Villages the whole world and and it crosses all national boundaries and all

religious interest its it can be anybody anywhere who's taking an interest in you and and I'm constantly receiving information some of it critical some of it positive through Facebook in particular through Facebook which is which is very helpful to me and I really and I really appreciate and I try the best I can I try as much as I can do it would be I don't I don't want to spend my entire day mourning tonight on Facebook but I try to engage with it I try to respond because I realized that people

you are giving me their time somebody sends me a link to a story I haven't ever seen before it's really important for my research thank you that's really great Twitter's giant for that for me just absolutely gigantic I've gotten more information from Twitter more interesting websites that people have sent me two more interesting articles people sent me to then any other resource that I've ever tried to contact with and it's just directly because of interacting with people and when they send me interesting things I retweet them yeah and then you know those retweets get seen by a large number of people

bowls and people see that I do that and so they send me more interesting topic it's really cool and that way I like that it's like a it's establishing a network and you know that sense it's really it's a whole new situation which we definitely not faced before done on a done on a gigantic scale and and what it means is that information which used to be strictly controlled and in the hands of Elites is now changing the part of the power structure of information is changing in time

by early and that's a very that potentially a very exciting new time to live in and great things are coming out of it and and it's easy to say this but I think a new Consciousness is Dawning in the world actually I don't think it's very big yet I think the old way of doing things is still extremely strong but people are waking up to their power and saying you know I am not simply to be pushed around and told what to do by an expert or a government official or or a

operation and that's great that's yeah I believe you're correct and I think that it's hard to see while you're in the middle of it yeah because it's all happening while we're you know we're participating in it we are living in a time of extraordinary rapid unbelievable change and when the history of this time maybe things will settle down maybe they want I don't know but when the history of this time comes to be written they'll have to be some perspective on it 200 300 years from now it will be seen as one of the most extraordinary moments in the whole

whole human story Emer my friend Amber Lion has an interesting way of talking about certain events and one of the things that she talks about when it comes to corporate control of information and like things along the lines of like the Julian Assange situation she talks about being on the wrong side of History yeah and I think that's a very good point that they're the people that are trying to suppress information in that way and the information that would directly affect the lives and

not just but the consciousness of the the entire culture yeah that that's the wrong side of history and then when tackling all things are said and done people trying to act in their best interest currently they don't realize like the fucking Jig Is up man you might be able to hang on and keep treading water for another three or four years yeah but The Jig Is up yeah it's like the Inquisition was on the wrong side of History you know when it made when it made Galileo say that actually the son did revolve around the earth even though he knew that the Earth moved the

it's clear that Galileo was on the right side of History we know that now we've got perspective on it we can look back with hindsight and and it's the same it's the same thing that's happening today in a different ways yeah it really is it's just it's just more it's more intense because it's happening worldwide and it's all happening at the same time and we're seeing positive and negative repercussions of it like these failed States then come about because of Arab Spring like everybody says let's get rid of the dictator and then you know mo mark

box is old yeah and now Libya is like this until world baby is a hellworld Syria is a hellworld Iraq Sahel World in every case Pandora's Box has been has been opened and the immediate result has been the things got way worse we're worse than they were before and then you know if we're talking about the the dark side the negative side of things as well there is this this horrible problem of bigoted religious fundamentalism which is

which is not confined to the Amis lamech World by any means I mean there are there are many Christian bigots as well there's a tendency for people to cling on to old and devalued ideas and and and to have an almost religious fanatic all commitment to them and be willing I mean what idea is worth killing another fellow human being for because they don't share your idea I mean this is demonic it's a horrendous horrendous situation that this happens I followed a few

you guys on Twitter that are a part of that whole Islamic State there was a an article about this guy who was a rapper who suspected a rapper from London suspected of being one of the guys that beheaded one of the American journalist and I was following his Twitter feed it's just like it's they banned his Twitter account right but it was you know it was just it was so strange to see what's going on and also strange to see his there

is this thing that was going on with his interaction with the other the other people there was this intense camaraderie this intense camaraderie with his other Islamic Warriors you know that they all looked at it there are everyone was brothers and sisters and everyone was you know it was all this there was great intensity to all of the decisions that were being made and great intensity to the bonds they all had you know fighting against what they thought was the evil United States and unfortunately there was also something

he said that you know they were talking about how everybody's freaking out that one head got cut off one body part got cut off of this one guy but what about the thousands of people that have blown to bits by these drones that no one's talking about and that's undeniable that is undeniable that is that it that is absolutely true two wrongs never make a right they do not the fact that the fact that that happens does not excuse the the cold-blooded slicing off of fellow human beings head but nevertheless it has

happens it has should not we should not condemn the one without condemning the other as well absolutely and in fact the one you know you're talking about one individual as opposed to thousands of people that have been killed by drones that are Innocent but completely innocent people or so-called collateral damage we're just ripped apart by by our high-tech weapons you know which which which will be had a person in an instant slice body parts off just completely destroy them if you're lucky

if you're not lucky they only break off a few things and then you suffer for the rest of your life in agonizing pain so we have to own this we have to take the we have to accept that this is this is something we do we in the west Are Not Innocent of this barbarity we're also part of it yeah it's is it we you know that's the real thing well that's the real thing because when you come back to the question of the manipulation of public opinion by very small interest groups who have who have a very unbalanced control

of information right and then who what is Winners we mean if it's not you and it's not I do we take responsibility for people we don't even know doing things that are under the orders of people we also don't know and under the influence of Corporations we're not really exactly sure who's pulling the strings are how it's getting done or what politicians are moving what pieces into place and the whole things that we take responsibility for standing by and letting bad shit happen another thing about it somehow or other div to fail 2 fail to act when when

know that something really wrong is being done in our name that is that is as bad as doing it ourselves have you ever seen the interview there's an interview that's out there of one of the guys that say it was a drone pilot and he was responsible for I don't know a large number of deaths but he would describe what it was like to be a drone pilot and when it's like to you know to operate these death machines and fly to the sky and just launched rockets and how crazy it was and this this is a new thing

that didn't exist decades ago didn't exist during the first Gulf War there was no drones this is mean it's this idea of precision attacks by automated machines that fly around the air launch Hellfire missiles I mean what a fucking crazy name they call them hell fire fire yeah yeah and and it becomes like a computer game oh yeah I know you're looking at it on a screen and completely detached completely completely detached from the mass murder that you are in fact inflicting

Dark World doc we live in the we live in a dark we live in a dark time and the only you know the only thing is that there is this light which is growing there is there is the capacity for love human beings we are we are capable of love it involves detaching ourselves from controlling orders and actually thinking as human beings thinking for ourselves very difficult to do but it is it I think it's happening I also think that that conflict the conflict of battling against the negative

zup the positive in some strange way mean they're the the anti-war movement was really a big part of what made the hippie movement of the 60s like that was a lot of it was in response to the Vietnam War yeah there's this this war that people knew to be unjust and so this flower power love power movement LSD and marijuana and all that came out of that yeah that very resistance to killing people that didn't do anything bad to us produce this very positive thing but then of course that was identified

counter reaction to that which we call the War on Drugs you know switch slap down on that and shut it shut it all down again I mean I know you're not big into Supernatural issues but you know I when I look at all of this I have to say the gnostics who you know to if I simplify the the idea that Gnostic ideas and the not we know about Gnostic ideas because a batch of texts were found buried at a place called NACA Mahdi and Upper Egypt near the temple of dendera

in Upper Egypt and they've been buried for 1600 years and they were found in 1945 and they contain a complete Corpus of ideas of a people who call themselves The gnostics and they see a dark force at work in the universe which is which is seeking to Snuff out the Divine spark in humanity and it's a supernatural force and what they say is that the entity who we've been taught for the last 2000 plus

is to believe is God the entered the a brat the god of Abraham who may be called Yahweh or who may be called Allah that that from the Gnostic point of view that's not a god at all that's a that's a demon that's a lower-level supernatural who's got this huge inflated ego who wants to be praised and worshiped who's constantly urging his followers on to acts of violence and and War and I think it's I we cannot say there are any facts in this area maybe it's just

just a dark side of the human psyche and maybe it's all generated by our brains or maybe there is a supernatural realm but I think it's I think it's a I think gnosticism is a very useful tool to look at the society we live in today they believe that there were entities called archons who are evil angels who disguise themselves as human beings and mingle with us to drive us into all manner of crimes and behavior that is hostile to the nature of the soul and that's what I see happening everywhere but they

lead fundamentally we are good that we have this light within us and that that the way to reveal that light is through is through knowledge that's why the serpent in the Garden of Eden is the good guy in the Gnostic frame of reference that's very bizarre the serpent being a good guy he's the good guy because he sang to Adam and Eve you have to know the difference between good and evil you can't just be these thoughtless meet creatures you know who are wandering around in a Happy Days in the garden if you're going to grow

oh and develop you have to make choices between good and evil and it's the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil that the serpent introduces Adam and Eve to and says you need to eat from that and they've and and and and actually I said I would say this is true you do we do need to we are defined by our choices it's through our choices that we grow and if we're ignorant of the context how can we hope to grow yeah and these mean the stories of like Adam and Eve and the mean all that stuff it's it's allegorical right mean it's supposed to be there's there's there's

allegory to certainly an allegory their cert they're certainly an allegory that's our real serpent you know it's not a real I don't lie don't read it as a result you know a real Apple I mean actually for the gnostics it very clearly and definitely it was a psychedelic mushroom when the gnostics portray the Tree of Life In The Garden that the sorry the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden it is Amanita muscaria it's the fly agaric it is it is sometimes it's a psilocybin it is it is a visionary

dance which they are would say depicting and that that in a way from the Gnostic point of view is a necessary part of the liberation of the spirit that we that it's an agent for awakening that's what the serpent was giving I know that all the fundamentalist Christians out there going to say Hancock is a devil worshiper because he's saying that the serpent is the good guy but that's what the Gnostic said and there was a deep and ancient study of the mystery of life and the Mystery of reality I read somewhere I don't remember the source but I read somewhere where they were talking about the interpretation

Haitians of ancient languages and the translations from you know ancient Hebrew Aramaic all to Greek Latin that a lot of things got lost along the way in the confusion and that one of the confusions was that the word Apple could could be interpreted also as red and then it wasn't an apple but that it was a red and that red being the color of the Amanita muscaria that that was why absolutely I mean there's folks have to understand

if they've never tried to pay attention to how people translate ancient languages and then try to translate them several times not just into you know from ancient Hebrew to Latin but also from Latin to Greek from Greek to English this there's so much that gets weirded out along the way like if you have ever taken a phrase from like a Russian website where you don't know what they're saying and then put it into like Google translate and you see the English version of what they're saying like oh my God

so convoluted and confusing because of the way the structure of their language is very different grammar that they use is very different that's right and that it's nothing in comparison to how different it was in ancient times yeah a lot Get Lost in Translation and a lot the translator imposes his or her idea of how things should of course on them on the material and many of the texts that come down to us are highly edited artifacts which are which are actually representing a particular point of view that's why these hidden Gnostic texts which just lay buried

for 1600 years until they were found in the 1940s are you know extremely extremely interesting and and actually we don't need to rely on translations they're worse most of the gnostics were wiped out by Christianity when Christianity pulled on the jackboot of Rome and became the state religion of the most powerful militaristic Empire of the ancient world it's set about destroying all competitors and the monks those it destroyed with a gnostics but such and they were burnt at the stake from a very early

date but some Gnostic sects survived and they have left us images and there are a number of Gnostic church has these guys saw themselves as Christians there are a number of Gnostic churches where they painted the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil quite specifically as I'm only two muscaria yeah and even in French frescoes was that Fresco from like

it was I don't remember the year but it was an Adam and Eve portrayal that showed several different types of my several different kinds of mushrooms I know the one place I been and it's Adam and Eve clearly standing absolutely and it makes you wonder like this was in not modern times but not 5,000 year no this was like 1200 ad there's like say 800 years ago something something like that we were the tail end of the last surviving Gnostic sects the the cathars in the southwest of France were an example of

of a gnostic sect who survived through until the Catholic Church wipe them out with the so-called Alba Jensen Crusades a truly horrendous Act of ethnic murder that took place in the 1200 S so we're actually not that long ago and things have have survived from that time and it's very interesting that that they are clearly indicating that the Psychedelic experience is of crucial importance that it's a

liberating experience that it allows us to wake up to the true nature of things now of course they would do it right they would do it in a sacred context they would work very hard on the setting to create the place and the space where this experience unfolded because that's part of the experience the substance on its own is only part of the story as anybody who's worked with psychedelics knows right the the context in which the experience unfolds is at least as important and the intent with which you go into it and what we're seeing now again history

has been obscured from us but Recent research is showing for example the famous eleusinian mysteries in Greece 2000 years at the Temple of a lusus it pilgrims came from all over Greece once a year to undergo an experience and that experience involve drinking a brew we can now say with absolute certainty that that was a brew closely that there were elements in it closely related to LSD and that this how do we know that about with absolute because the work has been the work has been done by

bye Hoffman by Gordon Wasson and others there's a very detailed study of what was in that Brew it was called the chi chi on and growing on the barley that was used in the Brew was it was an ergot a form of our got which contained lsda minds and which was soluble in water they've really done the science in great in great depth and when you read the accounts you know of great figures from the ancient world people like Plato or Socrates who went and had the experience at the earliest in Mysteries

they drink this they enter a darkened series of corridors and passageways and Chambers in this huge in this huge Temple and less light appears and they start seeing visions is pretty obvious what's going on yeah pretty obvious that they were tripping in some way shape or form and they saw it as my training they so it is nurturing they felt that there were several of the Ancients who had this experience and who said that after having had this experience they lost their fear of death that they that they understood that it was not that it was not the end now we could argue about

about that but that was the experience that they that they had yeah that's the experience that a lot of people have when they take acid one of the things that Larry Hagman said who is popular American actor he did this interview when he was on CNN and they were talking about death and he said that LSD completely took away his fear of death he just didn't it didn't mean what it meant before it just because you realize you're part of something yeah he part of something this the the

you know it is important to have a sense of self because it's important to brush your teeth it's important to pay attention when you're driving it's important to take care of your health while you're alive or you'll suffer some ill consequences but it's also important to recognize that a lot of your need to take care of yourself can be can overwhelm your greater perspective the greater perspective of being a part of everything yeah and that it's not just about you and the worst cases of human beings

are the egos run amok like the dictator like the Saddam Hussein or that anyone who control it it's all them it's all about them and you know bujji insane he goes and they cut people down and smash you know and Destroy and kill and leave horrible horrible lives in the wake of their their ridiculous Detachment from these Universal ideas and we are a part of a giant Collective Consciousness and

so it's almost impossible to get to that without something whether it's yoga whether it's DMT whether it's something that you ingest that gets you to that understanding that that understanding is very difficult to realize with our normal conditioning than their normal alpha male primate behavior that when I kill the inlet problem-solving State of Consciousness that's that State of Consciousness is not our friend when it comes to understanding our place in The Wider scheme of

things it is our friend in many ways and it's a good State of Consciousness but there are so many other states of Consciousness that are that are of value and that need to be sorted out now some people are very lucky and they can they can get into deeply Altered States Of Consciousness and see reality in a different way without needing to take any substance it's fine you know or they can get there through meditation or they can get that through floating in a flotation tank but but for a lot of people the very powerful

cool for changing our perspective on the nature of reality has been for thousands of years the Psychedelic experience and it's time that we rehabilitated that and and gave it a place in our society well I think as you were talking about earlier that this is a time of great change I think this is a time of Great Awakening when it comes to psychedelics and I was listening to this guy Sturgill Simpson I retweeted it today is just a country music singer who sings about DMT oh really I haven't come across some M&S country

music like old-school Waylon Jennings style country music if you're into that and I am I like that kind of woke me up I've been really into that the last couple of years I've gotten in I've always been a Johnny Cash fan I've always liked Dwight Yoakam and some country singers but I've gotten in a bunch of other stuff recently but this guy Sturgill Simpson is it's like a big part of what he's saying about is psychedelics yes and in a country song I mean incredible stuff yeah and I think that that to me just sort of highlights that this is spreading through a bunch

different genres different art forms you see a lot of psychedelic art now not just Alex Gray who's the master but you see others that are coming along a lot of psychedelic aren't work I see it all the time when I go and speak at events and conferences people come to me with their aunt and I'm seeing I'm seeing this trip to be huge explosion of visionary creativity taking taking place and I'm constantly meeting people whose lives have been transformed by by these experiences and I think a lot of

of people are getting informed by guys like you who have written books on these experiences from Supernatural to your own discussions including the one that got banned from Ted had been a little bit but that the whole Ted thing is kind of been exposed as being is really bizarre almost cultish thing that's done a lot of great good mineva I've I'm a big fan of a lot of the spacing right stuff on that have come on Ted but I had Eddie Wong on the show where he talked about his experience in Ted where they

come out because he left there to do my podcast right they wanted him to be a part of this whole thing all day where you hang out here to stay in a hotel room with someone else like they made him he's like can I get my own hotel room there no the Ted experience you have to shack up with some fucking random dude who's talking about physics or whatever it is you know we want everybody to be together it's a very cult-like cult yeah and ontology well it's also become intensely profitable yeah and one Things become intensely profitable and become this giant business that's that's part of why

why your talk got banned from Ted instead of having an open discourse about agreeing or disagreeing about what you're saying there's nothing wrong with that but your test your talk got banned because of pressure from bunch of people there was a they start using the word pseudoscience pseudoscience stop the pseudoscience yeah there's almost a cult of people that are afraid of debating ideas that are very controversial and very difficult to nail down especially when you're talking about the emergence of

Consciousness in early man yeah okay no one knows how the fuck people got from hunting things to drawing on Cave walls to experiencing Visionary psychedelic States but we do know that happened it happened it happened and it's worth talking about it and it yeah we're not it's not like 1940 whatever the fuck it was when people figured out Ayahuasca whatever year it was what what year it was oh Ayahuasca goes back a very long well no but I mean Western World when they when McKenna talk

at about how they first when they found harming they wanted to call it telepathically yeah telepathy things right but they realized that it had already been there have been scientifically defined as harming yeah so that was like what year was that that would probably be in 1930s somewhere 30 or 40 2020 then Wasson Gordon Wasson was in like the 50s the other was 50s goes down to Mexico right encounters María Sabina has a mushroom experience and that's the beginning of the mushroom story in the west actually

that's like modern Western culture and civilization this is our introduction to it but the shit had been going on for thousands of years thousands of thousands and thousands of years so for us to assume that these you especially you and I who have had these psychedelic experiences I've never had an Ayahuasca experience but I've had a dozen DMT trips and mushroom trips yeah there's something there yeah there's something there that's unbelievably intense and to deny that that had an effect

unconsciousness of emerging people crazy it's ridiculous just cry that's in my opinion very anti-scientific it's extremely intense scientific it is like the modern Inquisition but it's a weird thing where people are ignoring that aspect and concentrating on all the other potential aspects which I think probably worked in some sort of a symbiotic fashion the introduction of meat into the diet the the experimenting with different food sources and because of the changing of the climate there was a lot of factors that take came into play that made

lower hominids human beings a lot of every rule evolutionary factors a lot of environmental factors a lot of experimental factors a lot of things happened where there was some benefits to certain types of behavior and those people survived and then things evolved and changed and then boom we have Graham Hancock here 2014 sit in front of his Apple laptop you know I'm saying I mean there's a lot of things had to take place a lot it was a it was a very complicated process but I'm absolutely sure that psychedelics worky-worky

out of it everyone who's taken psychedelics is pretty sure yeah that it was a key part you know why because you have had the experience pain and everyone who doesn't mmm if you haven't had a psychedelic experience and you're talking about psychedelic experiences being not a factor or non-effective you're crazy it'd be better to shut up well it's just nonsense because they haven't people who've not had had the experience at all are just they don't even in my view need to come to the table because they've got nothing to bring to the discussion I don't mind

they come to the table but I find their arguments to be almost hilarious it's like I have a very good friends of very intelligent guy and he's never taken any drugs and his take on it is and he's a brilliant guy love talking to him but his take on it is simply all the works been done there's no nothing not going to learn anything new from that yeah and I'm like well that's so crazy yeah I'll just say his name Penn jillette right I love that guy but it was the same I mean I do any drugs doesn't do anything right and he feels that there's no need for him to so it's all

I've been figured out we've all the works been done like oh god dude yeah let me get you high on DMT last 15 minutes and you tell me what works been done see that's that's what's so so I think what's so special about DMT in particular is that there is that there is no negotiation with the experience they're very few people who can resist it once you hit the hit the threshold is it dose yeah and it's going to take you where it where it takes you and then you are confronted by one of the most intense and extraordinary experiences

this possible for any human being to have yes we can jump out of an airplane at 10,000 feet Yes we can scale a sheer Cliff that's also very intense and very very extraordinary yes we can go scuba diving to the depths but if we look at the whole range of human experiences and say what is one of the most intense and potentially most transformative experiences as possible to have I would say DMT done with the right intention in the right context is right up there with ya else it's the most intense thing I've ever

yeah me too I mean I haven't experienced everything obviously I've never been scuba diving and ever been skydiving and it doesn't mean that those things aren't intense as well but to deny the impact of those things it seems silly and the people that are arguing against the the efficacy of these experiences or against the influence of these experiences to have those people actually have never haven't had taken these experience and arguing against them it seems so silly it's great it's crazy it's crazy

they look scared of them but it's those people who are running the rules in our society still yeah well if they if they weren't that would be really terrifying if our society was wrong in The Way It Is Now by a bunch of people doing DMT be like what the fuck yeah but that's one thing we can be quite sure if our society was run by a bunch of people doing DMT it wouldn't be running the way that it's run no it wouldn't well you know McKenna found out about DMT by a friend who is a scientist who worked at the Army research lab and they had like a barrel of the stuff that a fucking bear

Errol of re Mt and if anyone if you've DMT is it's very small doses their tiny transformative its tiny little doses that you smoke take you into these incredible realm so the idea of a barrel yes or LSD mean McKenna described LSD in the best way I've ever heard is that the amount of LSD you need for it to be effective is like an ant that can break down the Empire State Building and 30 minutes yeah like it's literally that little

he was a great genius and it's it's very fortunate again we have the internet and the Terence McKenna is has passed in the year 2000 he still he still with us and his and he is having this liberating effect on people all around the world and he had the gift he had the gift of language yeah he spoke in a such a compelling way I love listening to Tears by due to Bill Hicks you know yeah the two of them together sure just amazing and Hicks was a huge fan of McKenna and

became I found out about McKenna because of hick right because there was a joke where Hicks said something about leaving mushrooms under the under the table of all these people like take it and he said Atwood Terence McKenna would describe as a heroic dose and remember saying who the fuck is Terence McKenna and so then I don't wasn't even a Google back then I searched Terence McKenna because of hearing about it on Bill Hicks right and then I got a hold of some of the the audio recordings

and then you listen to the guy's voice is like wow what a weird guy I know weird interesting compelling way of communicating credible use of language which just makes you think all the all the time that's that's a service he's providing for all of us still yeah I mean he missed the mark on that December 21st 2012 showed everybody did sure everybody's got a miss the mark but he was also a guy used to get high a lot and come up with it cool theories and things to think about and when you're postulating and thinking about the future

here's the thing about thinking about the future no one's ever got it right no no one's ever figured out the future it's not a single fucking person who's ever sat down anybody to get it right nobody got it right the future is the future is indeterminate yeah it's interesting I mean talking about psychedelics the what's happening with cannabis in the United States right now is is very is very interesting to me coming from coming from Britain where you know nobody is ever even willing to contemplate the

Nation or the D restriction of cannabis but in America state-by-state people are voting with their feet and the barriers are being a being broken down I mean America has been the huge dark force behind the War on Drugs all over the world for the last 40 or 50 years so many countries around the world have just blindly followed the American lead that's the American government that's the American power structure but the American people are saying know the American people are saying actually we want to smoke cannabis and we find it positively

t''v and nurturing for us and state-by-state either it's being decriminalized or medical marijuana is available or it's actually being legalized in a number of cases this is a big change again there's all kind of conspiracy theories like are monsanto's going to take it over and so on and so forth but I see it as a really good thing that these barriers in the heartland of the war of drugs are being broken down by the American people themselves and I say kudos to the American people for getting on and making that happen

it's going to be a benefit to the whole world yeah Warren Buffett is starting to get into the marijuana trade oh yeah that's when things are going to get freaky yeah because when you got a guy who's a worth ninety billion dollars or whatever the hell he's worth that's when things can get very interesting well sure I mean people are going to people are going to make commercial advantage of this but at the end of the day I just come back to this is something that I've said again and again as the years have gone have gone by for me the fundamental issue is the right of the adult to make Sovereign decisions

about their unconsciousness and one of those Sovereign decisions has to be the right to use cannabis or not to use it but one must be free to make that decision and not a not controlled by society and once that is recognized once all the scare stories about cannabis go away and we find that in fact state-by-state it's it's a positive rather than a harmful thing I think that the question marks are going to begin to arise over the psychedelics to and and we're going to we're going to see all those

is breaking down in the years to come yeah I think you're right I think the bringing up Warren Buffett and Warren Buffett's company specifically what's happening is he's a part of this company is a subsidiary subsidiary subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway has this company called cubic designs and they sell the maximize usable floor space and warehouses and they sent a thousand Flyers to weed dispensary

he's in recent weeks and these flyers they show these medical marijuana grow-ops and it's like double your usable growing space this is fucking like this is intense stuff because this is companies that are real estate holders that have you know giant amounts of money invested in this they're saying you know what we're going to dip our feet into this is growing marijuana industry exactly I have a friend who works at a dispensary in Colorado and the dispensary is 5

acres in door wow five acres that's great five acres that's an enormous building yes and it's all pot yes just millions of dollars in marijuana and there's people that are there this is only been less than a year I mean it was made legal last January and here we are we're talking right now it is September of 2014 right this is a crazy thing yeah I just did my comedy special in Denver and I hadn't been a Denver in a while the place is

has changed and it's like marijuana is a huge part of the culture now people are moving there's marijuana tourism people are moving their for marijuana they're moving their to be a part of the marijuana business because you can get really fucking Rich right now because there's a lot of people that are not sure what's going to happen federally because it's still illegal federally so they're not sure whether or not they want to dive into it yet yeah but the people that are bold that are died willing to take a risk are making insane product of chance of making straight Fortune from it and the government is

King a lot of money to 39 percent of the profits go to taxes wow so every marijuana joint that's gets old 39 if it's sold for $1.39 no one sell it for a dollar but if it's sold for $100 $39 is going to the government so they're making over a hundred million dollars this year yeah in taxes just in Colorado yeah and state government yes and so they're looking at this I thought the federal government is not reaping the revenues because it's no because it's illegal it's illegal but they're finally allowing the people to put their

a money in Banks yes which was for a long time they had to do this weird shit with they had a like put it in safe deposit boxes or they had to buy take the cash and then use it to buy banknotes and like by you know bank checks is very strange they weren't allowing them to use credit cards or any of the normal ways that people do business that keep them from being robbed at gunpoint by criminals you know untrackable bills so they had these kids that were driving around stacks of cash and is really dangerous

in scary very dangerous and scary but it's very it's very good that the that all of this is changing I can only see it as a good thing I don't see any I don't see any downside in it it's a really it's a really positive development that's taking this taking place I agree and I think it's also a part of this whole movement that you and I were talking about where the world is changing yeah information is out there people are just not prepared to put up with that fucking shit and he longer yeah and not prepared to put up with it to be told what to think to be told what to do with their own with their own Consciousness and

and it's great that that it's Americans who are leading the way in this number and and and the rest of the world is is watching and all the lies we've been told about cannabis they're going to just drift away and be wrecked and destroyed Forever by what's happening in America so it's a great service that's being that's being done to the world as you know I had my own long-term relationship with cannabis I smoked cannabis for 24 years I overindulged I undoubtedly abused my relationship with cannabis I don't blame the cannabis for

it was me I was I was just crazy I was crazy I little crazy I mean it's very crazy to smoke it from 9 in the morning until two o'clock the next morning seven days a week of rather vaporize it as I as I did and and I reached a point thanks to a series of Ayahuasca Journeys in October 2011 where I made the decision that I wouldn't smoke cannabis nice three years have come since then but I want to live in a society where I and fellow adults are free to choose either to use cannabis or

not to use it without any state agent sticking their nose in our private business this is this is our private business what we do with our own Consciousness yeah and and it's incredibly encouraging to see that the Americans are taking that power back and showing the rest of the world how to do it also anti-pot doctors are being exposed it's really fascinating all these doctors that are paid off by pharmaceutical companies and there was an article recently

anti-pot doctors being paid off and all of the leading pot anti-pot doctors all of the I take a Thomas bunny oh yeah all of them why am I not surprised well it's interesting that guys like Sanjay Gupta who used to do that who used to be on board with that you now has steps come out yeah come out in a huge way and he's also starting to address psychedelics yeah starting to address what's going on with psilocybin and their new study that's shown these people that took psilocybin and quit smoking six months later

scent of them some large number 70 or 80 percent quit smoking yes and didn't go back to it because of just the the clarity of those Visions where you kind of understand like what am I doing oh I really get that perspective on your on yourself here and that's that's the that's the big news you know that these that these things are positive and beneficial and the way forward for society is to create positive social environment and positive spaces in which in which we can explore these experiences and though

result for society as a whole will be very positive very hard in stuff that yeah vice.com is the the guys who broke the story it's incredible and it's all these different doctors that have been like here's one dr. Herbert Keebler of clever clever of Columbia University he's been impeccable academic credentials has been quoted in the press and academic Publications warning against the use of marijuana which he

Isis may cause wide-ranging addiction that's my favorite wide-ranging addiction and public health issues when he's writing his anti-pot opinion pieces for CBS CBS News are being quoted by n BR and CNBC what's left unsaid is that clever has served as a paid consultant to Leading prescription drug companies including Purdue Pharma the maker of Oxycontin bracket Bank bank Kaiser the producer of painkiller called neurofen and Al

khmers Alcor Mez mmm the producer of a powerful new opiate called zo h y Dr o how do you say that zou Hydro Zohydro I guess he's a cunt that's what these guys are professional content and what you say is what what it what it what what he's what he's been hiding and covering up is that all this stuff he's pushing that's the real addictive drugs pesos progress 16,000 deaths a year it's a multi-billion Dollar business

- absolutely it causes 16 deaths a year just in this case this kind 16,000 16,000 deaths a year stunning yeah 600,000 and doctors are on the take to keep promoting that and to stop us exercising our free choice as adults to manage our pain in other ways for example with cannabis and even if it did it was just 16 days I would obviously I agree 16,000 it was 16 deaths that 16 more than cannabis ahead of us is causing zero cannabis doesn't kill any that's what's most ridiculous thing ever like you could die from a

spent a lot of people die every year from aspirin lot of people die every year from Salt they eat too much salt and they die absolutely drink too many have are now we have a painkiller I think you call it a set acetaminophen here in America we call it paracetamol in England it reflux you liver yo yo it's really really dangerous dangerous thing and and and once it reaches a certain level there's no recovery from it and it kills thousands and thousands of people a year whilst reading this thing about bodybuilder or a watching a video rather about bodybuilding and this guy was being interviewed who used to be this big

competitive bodybuilder in the talking about the drugs that you have to take to get so big but one of the things they were talking about was that what really kills these guys is not the steroids it's painkillers right they all get hooked on painkillers on it because they're in pain all time because they're lifting all those crazy waiting a fucking up their body while they're doing it and they take acetaminophen all these different Valiums Percocets and that stuff it just destroys their kidney yes destroys our little kidneys yeah it's and the withdrawal symptoms from stopping taking the

killer is huge amount of pain so you then go and take more more painkillers these are highly highly addictive highly highly dangerous drugs yeah and state-sanctioned and segment certain action totally State sanction so I'm wondering now three years after I gave up cannabis whether you know whether you can get back in dip my toes back in the water in that in a respectful way not not do it everyday have some sacred moments I value the sensual side of it

I don't know I'm the next time I have an Ayahuasca session I'm going to I'm going to ask Ayahuasca is going to be my intent because it was Ayahuasca that really interrupted by cannabis habit I'm going to ask is there a way I can do this I don't know maybe that's week of me I wonder this you know I was talking with a friend last night and he said there's a true addict speaking you know what yeah I said this because it sounds a bit it sounds a bit like that but I did value cannabis it was it was an extraordinary positive thing for me in many many ways and I

I feel is that I got out of balance with it and if I could if I could find that balance again and and use it rarely at special times then I think it would be okay but I'm I'm a little afraid to go back there well you should be afraid right you know because you've had personal experience with addiction and I think that addiction is purely mental it's purely mental it was very easy to stop once Ayahuasca gave me the message and I really got that I had a severe kicking first of all it DMT trip then immediately afterwards 5 Ayahuasca sessions I was

was I was psychologically beaten up and the message of that beating was you have to stop smoking cannabis and and and I did and looking back on it it's absurd this is a very very powerful plant agent and here I am you know vaporizing it 16 hours a day 7 days a week you went deep I went deep I heard that when I went I went very deep and and but and it got to the point where I actually wasn't enjoying it anymore where I just felt that I

and live my life without it and that but I discovered I easily could live my life without it when I stopped it wasn't a huge chore or problem to stop it wasn't actually difficult and in that sense I would definitely was not physically addicted to it right yeah that's the thing is that I think there's some people that do get physically addicted I'm not you know I used to say marijuana is not addictive and I don't think it is with most people but I think biological diversity biodiversity and

human beings is such that like there's certain folks that have weird reactions to all kinds of showing Things cats some people around cats like my friend Gary he can't even come over my house right as I have two cats okay if he walks in the door he was talking about he gets a sneezing yeah can't breathe like he has to get out of there you kill him in Roma cats yes but then I got my friend Joey Diaz who has what is y'all 11 I think as 11 cats yeah it's motherfuckers 11 cats right is he fine with that do ya but if you if my friend Gary

over my friend Joey's house he would he would die but Joey's having a party over there he's got cats on his lap he's petting them sitting on his shoulders yeah so the missiles were all we're all different than and what works for one person doesn't doesn't work for another yeah that's and that's again why why this issue of adult sovereignty of us having the right to make our choices about our own bodies is fundamental and and actually with the psychedelics and the Cannabis issue that's just the tip of the iceberg of the whole issue of health and personal health and and and how

our society is working to take away our choices over our personal health and to turn us into robots who consume the products that are pumped at us by the big pharmaceutical companies or who invented inventing every year this Unholy alliance with psychiatrist inventing every year new mental conditions for which new pills will be will be dosed out yeah England you guys don't have those commercials either those commercials are so fucking Insidious yeah ask your doctor

about this drug that might cause you to shit yourself all day long yeah commit suicide suicide I know where does this big untold story about antidepressants well how about to depressants cause people to kill themselves how about antidepressants that supplement the antidepressant antidepressants like there's there's a certain antidepressant I forget what it's called that had insane side effects right that they were promoting as a supplement to your regular antidepressant yeah you're a regular antidepressant isn't doing it and to mix it up

with this one but this one could cause fucking kidney failure your dick might fly across the room like a Mockingbird we didn't think anything could happen to you yeah but you might not be depressed or you might mean find it just take our pills these are the biggest drug dealers yeah these are the true Mafia of drugs well it's also the idea of commercials commercials are influential and the influence of commercials is very Insidious because there's one thing if a commercial is influencing you to buy a particular vacuum cleaner yeah that doesn't bother me man this is the

hey look if you're if you're too much of a knucklehead to go and Consumer Reports or you know to read reviews online by independent people that tell you this vacuum cleaners great this vacuum cleaner sucks if you're too much of a knucklehead to do that I don't feel bad for you exactly but when it comes to Consciousness when it comes to pills especially when it comes to happiness man because that's the big one yeah antidepressants they should be calm happy pills you know I wrote an article long time ago for my blog about happy pills when I called it happy pills right and it was about this

this this this girl who was taking these these antidepressants and I think that the selling of happiness in pill form is the ultimate ridiculous American notion it's horrible it's horrible it's suggesting that the answer does not lie within that that it can be bolt right but happiness can be bored but I think that the ultimate illusion also its Insidious about it is selling it on television like that does a

a service to the actual people that could use antidepressants because they have a real mental imbalance sure there's people that do do that so like you're selling it as an antidote for a shit life yeah where there's other folks that might have a real issue of an imbalance huge chemical imbalance right now like that can be adjusted and yes it's adjusted in make their life wonderful people that have a miserable life they can make their life wonderful but instead we're people will trivialize it because you see a commercial or a chicks running around

a field of Wheat and spinning around with her baby and then someone says I want to live like that and then they call her fucking doctor and next thing you know you're on a pill he didn't need if you just start eating vegetables and going jogging everyday you'd be a way happier person that you were on that pill and again let me let me say right I'll write that the psychedelics are very effective antidepressant yes I decide been being trialed tested in humans communities for thousands and thousands of years Ayahuasca in the Amazon at least 4,000 years of use and anybody who's

it with psilocybin are or Ayahuasca enough will know that that they do help with mood they do they do help you take a more positive outlook on outlook on life and and whether that's to do with altering the chemical balance in the brain because they do work on the serotonin system in the brain chemically yeah or whether it's to do with the Revelation that one has that you know life is an Incredible Gift and an incredible joy and a privilege to be to be alive this is the this is what we forget we're immersed in the cares and woes of

daily life constantly struggling to meet the next the to pay the next Bills to to get on in work relentlessly driven to produce and consume and we forget that it's a magical Enchanted gorgeous glorious universe that we live in and we have this amazing bodies and we should just celebrate every minute of it psychedelics help with that too yeah it's hard it's hard to keep a balanced perspective but it's I think it's also important to realize that perspective

thing Consciousness shifting experiences can also change the way you look at the world and when you change the way you look at the world it can adjust the way your brain function yeah and it's not an either/or situation it's a combinatory situation it's like they might affect your brain in a very chemical way but also just the altering of a perspective could enhance your mood and it could enhance the way your body and brain function because the mind is what we are we are our minds the mind is the most powerful

all the most powerful thing yeah that's where all healing I believe resides it resides it resides in the mind if you can kick in the body's ability to heal itself through right mental attitude you know no medicine will do that for you that's why placebos actually work yeah that's why they work better than than the prescription drugs that there'd been promoting time they don't work better than prescription drugs but occasionally they do border just the fact that they work at all the placebo effect is not nearly as effective as medicine right

in most cases but just the fact that it does work at all that there's a way that you can tell your body to make itself better and the way is by tricking it to thinking is taking medicine look you're going to be better I'm going to be better the alleviation of stress and anticipation of this horrible you know demise that your it's impending doom you can escape with a sugar pill that's incredible it's incredible it says something about the mind that's and it's something you know really worth looking at and that further that is enhanced in some

psychedelic experiences that the perspective enhancing aspects of that I do believe in change your overall health a change your overall Consciousness which can change your overall health yeah yeah there's a lot going on man and I think these conversations are super important for people that are uninitiated and that haven't they understand what the what's the hoopla about why is everybody goddamnit that Rogen's going on about drugs again I know I have I have a constituency of my readers and people who follow me on Facebook who you know constantly throwing that you

Hancock's a druggie haha house at me and I just feel this is a really important it's a really important conversation to have and fundamentally get right down to the bottom of what it's about it's about this whole issue of us taking back power over ourselves yeah that's what it's really about and it needs to be seen in that in that context to make decisions about our own lives right or wrong and to learn from our mistakes and to grow and develop as a result I think it's also super important that

you discussed your relationship with cannabis in an abusive way to that like there's a balance to be achieved yeah there's a balance to be achieved for all of us yes it's sort of a strange that's what that's what I've done what I've learned in a way I had to deny myself this wonderful sensual plant which helped me to enjoy food and music and many other sensual Pleasures so sex absolutely people you've never had sex on part you don't even know what you're talking about is even know what Led Zeppelin sounds like

exactly it's a does a beautiful sensual Ally and I've had to deny myself that sensual I lie for the last three years because I abused it because I was spark up a joint right now when I tell him I want to do because I want to dive in right now of course the gel you're like you're like the serpent in the Garden of Eden sure you want yes you sure why not I don't want to force you in anything you know you're not forcing me an interesting expect now now no no that I'm going to

go I'm gonna go live on Joe Rogan is that bad no that's not bad that's not that's not the best way to do it if you want to dive in will go a little baby hit little baby little baby can create with my first baby hit in three years yeah nothing crazy nobody has to get hurt here okay you were showing some images from Lebanon like before what have you gotten into well not by the time I smoked this little baby hit up I probably have forgotten but so what

I was getting into was this this fella here American shit to that's not that crap you get in England that's made by American scientists and botanists they all drive muscle cars and they do steroids well that's so familiar that's such a nice feeling that's that's back are we seeing it on the screen yeah that is you're going in for another baby hit look at yeah she's well March little just a tiny did I

oh good that's it stop right there Rocky to get confused on the way back we will see that so here it is Lebanon this is the this is what is called the stone of the pregnant woman whoa at Baalbek that's level on top of that and that is me on top of that kind of course that is a PowerPoint demonstration so this this little tiny dot tiny dot up here on top of that that's me in Lebanon and is this a recent in July yes I was there and I was there in July

people say that Lebanon is very dangerous and this place is right on the Syrian border but I didn't see any danger there at all I had a I had a magical experience at Lebanon it was great it was exciting it was for you a must be incredible because that's a sight of so many ancient huge monolithic structures that are unexplained as far as our construction methods or so the Temple of Jupiter at Baalbek and Temple of Jupiter this is what they call it it's a run there is undoubtedly a Roman Temple there okay and that Roman Temple dates from the known historical period some to 300 years after

after Christ it's the Roman Temple of Jupiter and it's very extraordinary but it stands on these huge foundations there's a group of stones called three stones called the trilithon which are each weighing eight hundred and forty tons 840 tons what the fuck and they are lifted to 20 feet above the ground and built into a wall of sat on top of one of those stones I've been down underneath it and looked up at it to

40 tons Stones this is this is a gigantic achievement now the Orthodox view is that the Romans did everything that they built those foundations and they built the temple I think and many researchers have studied them in this field agree with me on this that actually the Romans found a much more ancient site and they which was just extraordinarily megalithic gigantic stones and they built their temple on top of it and later historians have simply given the hole

a thing to the Romans without considering what was what was going on there and part of the reason I think that is because of these stones that are still in the Quarry which I was trying to I don't know if it showed up on the screen I was trying I got it you got it I'm trying to show you know I'm trying to show it just now these Stones stood in the Quarry okay now so what the historians say is that the Romans okay they found they could move the 840 tons Stones that's 1 million six hundred and eighty thousand pounds for people who don't

like the number the word ton you got your calculator going but I had to because it didn't make sense I was trying to double it but it's not double like it's two pounds like it's your 2,000 pounds it's a frisson number whatever it is it's just it is fearsome number 6 mm mm pounds for every ton so I was going 8 2004 each what 840 X mm is that real and then at that's what it is that's what it is 1 million so here's the thing those the 840 ton blocks in the walls in the foundation of the temple then we go to the

Ori and we find this humongous thing which weighs over 1,000 tons and there's another one on the other side of the road which weighs 1,200 tubs one-thousand two one-thousand tons thousand two million four hundred thousand pounds yeah so here's our fuck so here's the theory okay the Romans the Romans found they could move the 840 ton blocks and they did this is the Orthodox Theory and then they built their temple on top of it but they found they

couldn't move these thousand or 1200 plus ton blocks and by the way this one is completely separated from the Bedrock or out of which has been cut they couldn't move them so they left them in the Quarry I think that actually proves that the Romans didn't create the 840 ton megalith because if the Romans had known that these gigantic blocks in the if they have cut the blocks okay if they had cut them themselves which we must say they did if we are saying that the Romans were

responsible for these megaliths if the Romans had cut these blocks themselves they knew they were there and the very first thing they would have used for the smaller blocks that they put into place in the temple of Jupiter was these large blocks they would have sliced them up like a loaf of bread into smaller blocks and move those over to the temples the fact that these huge megaliths still stand in the Quarry suggest to me that they were buried when the Romans came to that site because otherwise it would have been the very first thing they would have used for querying smaller blocks that they were buried

and that the Romans found an existing prehistoric megalithic platform and on top of it they built their Temple of Jupiter that's fascinating Theory it seems like open to interpretation to me sure it's just actually yeah because you're looking at but will either be you know regardless of why they built the one what is it 1 million Jesus Christ 2,400,000 is freaky when you Devin pounds that's insane yeah when you do it in tons it's abstract

1,200 tons okay what's I mean you know it's hard for my dad well let's consider let's consider an average vehicle which might wait let's let's push or thousand pounds so it's about two tons right is that is about the weight of an average vehicle so two tons / thousand by that so you're looking at five hundred family sized cars thousand ten thousand tons oh my God it's just that imagining a two million pound Rock a bunch of dudes are moving it and we know that

someone at some time in history they built that they move those stones I mean it wasn't that one right it wasn't it was what was the first calculation that we had what did we say it was six hundred forty tons is that we don't they hate this three blocks of 884 dizzy joint so closely that you can't slip a sheet of paper between them I mean they've not been just roughly leave it into place they've been set down with perfect with perfect Precision so I saw someone did that we know what did that and there are plenty of people arguing that the Romans did it I feel

all along with other researchers have approached this to be I feel I want to look at alternative possibilities for what these megaliths are all about and that's and that's one of the things I've been doing for the last year is traveling around the world looking I feel so lucky to have the opportunity to do this I would look engine just amazing amazing archaeological sites God and one of the countries that I visited and I want to really mention this is Armenia where I have seen

edible Stone circles just wonderful dwarf Stonehenge make make us just stand in all and look at the way that these huge megalithic stones in the what is called the current Moonstone Circle they have certain holes drilled in them to align up with particular areas of the sky well add an Armenian archaeo-astronomer Gary David that kind of data believes that the place called carahunge is not just two or three thousand years old as most historians believe but well over

and years old why does he believe that because of the astronomical alignments that the positions of the stars in the sky change very slowly down the ages that the alignment to the solstices change is because there's a slow nod on the axis of the earth very very slow over tens of thousands of years which means that if the sun rises at a certain point on the horizon on the summer solstice today in two or three or five thousand years time that point on the horizon will have changed

wouldn't notice it in a lifetime you wouldn't notice it in ten lifetimes but if you stay long enough you'll note that actually the sun isn't rising in the same place on the horizon anymore when did we can the firm that's called the precession of the equinoxes that's good well actually no that's a second that's a second that's a different one that's the changing the tilt of the Earth's axis oh which kind of a wobble and not nods back up there's a wobble and there's a tilt and then there's actually a tilt within the Tilt no well yeah this is the this is the view but it the effect is because

the Earth is the viewing platform from which we observe the stars and would we observe the other celestial bodies such as the Moon and the Sun the Earth is our viewing platform if you change the orientation in space of that blood viewing platform then the rising points of stars the moon the Sun change and the positions of the stars in the sky change wow and it becomes a kind of language once you understand this that it is universally available to us the calculations can be done we can do it anybody can buy computer software today which will show you the ancients

eyes over any point on the Earth's surface at any time in the last 30,000 years that's amazing yeah these are and and what's involved in those computer simulations is simply calculations that had been done in previous Centuries by astronomers and we understand these processes we can measure them set them up but they're you have a regularity a changing patterns in the sky if you tie that into architecture on the ground then actually you have away free of all language of dating of actually speaking you

can use this universal language of the stars on architecture to make a statement of the future you can say that this particular time was very important to me to our culture it mattered to us it matter to us so much that we've created this huge Monument to freeze the Skies over a particular Point wonder why those particular constellations if at all were important to them that's where things get really strange and if I wanted to play Devil's Advocate I would say well these holes they're pointing up towards the sky there's a lot of fucking

Stars up there should like how do we know like just because they line up with this and my 12,000 years ago it doesn't mean we're looking fairly sure it's very complicated so write what you want is multiple locks I mean take the Pyramids of Giza right and here I cite the work of my close friend and colleague Robert Robert Duvall in particular in his book The Orion mystery you take the three Great Pyramids of Giza and you look at the heavens overhead and you also look

look at the religious system of the ancient Egyptians what was important to them what did they what did they believe you pretty soon discover that stars were incredibly important to them Stars cover the inside of the ceilings of all tombs of the Pharaohs tombs for example monuments are lined up to particular places on the horizon where a star perhaps it's serious whose counterpart amongst the gods was the Goddess Isis perhaps it's a Ryan who's counterpart amongst the gods was

goddess Iris this is the thing you have a mythology that speaks of entities who have who are clearly stated to be connected to particular asterisms particular particular constellations that's the first thing are the constellations that are being said to have a reflection upon the ground in architecture where they significant to the culture concerned well yes absolutely the constellation of Orion was of enormous significance to the ancient Egyptians therefore it has to be a matter of interest that the three pyramids on the ground are laid out in a pattern

turn that is temptingly similar to the pattern of the three belt stars of the constellation of Orion that's fascinating temptingly similar but there's something else then you have shafts which run through the body of the Great Pyramid you have there's a place called The King's chamber high up in the Great Pyramid it has a shaft in its North and South Wall which are about 8 inches high and 8 inches wide and those shafts cut all the way through the body of the pyramid and they come out on the south and north sides of the pyramid you can actually and it's been done

past you can drop a cannonball in at the outside entrance to those shafts and they are pit and that Cannonball moments later will appear in the king's chamber the shops are about 200 feet long okay in the Queen's chamber down below there are also two shafts these shafts do not exit on the outside of the pyramid which creates a mystery of its own of great interest what is at the other end of those sharks but they do have very definite alignments and what Robert was really the first to show some archaeoastronomers were were on to this as well in the case of some of the Stars

but what Robert was really the first to show is that in 2500 BC the epoch in which egyptologists say the pyramids were built all of those four shafts that shoot up out of the king's chamber and the queen chamber all targeted very significant stars in the sky at that time like for example the southern shaft of the Queen's chamber targeted the star Sirius at exactly the moment that the star crosses the Meridian that's the north-south line that divides the sky above our heads at exactly the moment that the star

crosses that line the shaft targets it and you could you could fire a laser beam up and you hit that in theory you'd hit that started that the alignment is that great so they locking the pyramid in in the epoch of 2500 BC to four significant stars in the sky another one of those stars is the lowest star of the belt of Orion

that tells us that this is a dating mechanism of some kind and it can't be an accident that that's the case and once you understand procession you understand that these alignments will change so it therefore becomes very interesting to discover that the orientation of the pyramids on the ground is that which Robert argues are the terrestrial reflection of the three stars of the belt of Orion that the orientation of the pyramids on the ground because of precession shifts very slowly down the ages and if you

you can see this clearly on any good Sky Map program as you go back in time you find that the constellation of Orion at the moment it crosses the Meridian the same place that was targeting the star Sirius at the moment it crosses the Meridian that the perfect alignment between the belt stars of Orion and the three Great Pyramids of Giza is not in 2500 BC but in 10500 BC 8000 years earlier so we have a very interesting problem here either it's all coincidence

or the pyramids are monuments that speak both to the age of the ancient Egyptians 2500 BC and to a much earlier time wasn't it also the same time where the Sphinx was pointing towards the constellation Leo well that's the again the third part of the lock and Robert and I'd looked at this in depth together in our book called the message of the Sphinx and so we have the Giza Plateau we have the three pyramids laid out on the ground in the pattern of the belt of Orion in 10500 BC that's looking South now let's look East let's

Jus east east of course is where the sun rises but people who don't observe the sun don't realize that the sun tracks back and forth along the horizon during the solar year reaches his most not northernmost point on the summer solstice 21st of June and its southernmost point on the winter solstice 20 21st of December on the equinox

the day that night and day are of equal length the sun rises directly perfectly due east that's actually how you define an equinox because the sun is rising perfectly Dewey's and looking at it is the Sphinx aligned gazing directly perfectly at the point of Sunrise now we have to consider what's behind the sun then what is the constellation of the zodiac that the sun is rising in because that's the what the zodiac is it sags

group of constellations that by chance that part the sun passes through during the course of the year but that the constellation that the sun rises against the background of is also affected by procession the wobble on the axis of the earth and that changes you have roughly two thousand one hundred and sixty years in each house of the zodiac for the last two thousand one hundred sixty years we've been in Pisces as I often say it's not an accident that the early Christians use the fish as their symbol before that it was the

constellation of Aries the ram Rams were incredibly important in the years from 2000 down to the time of Christ just look at the biblical stories anyway to cut a long story short the Great Sphinx is a lion admittedly with a human head but that head is rather small and we think that the head almost certainly was recarved in a later time probably the whole statue was originally a lion crouching their honor on the horizon gazing due east at the Rising Sun on the equinox and at the constellation Pisces

the Sun and that constellation is in 10500 BC the constellation of Leo As Above So Below Leo speaking to the Sphinx Orion speaking to the pyramids locking in to a date that is far before any civilization began and I know I'm on a long rap here it's awesome but just at that at that point when the egyptologists say well it's impossible for there to be any thing like a civilization at Giza 12 and a half thousand years ago just when they're very

a happy saying that and they're telling us that no other Monument can be found anywhere in the world which is 12 and a half thousand years old on this scale lo and behold up Pops Gobekli Tepe right in Turkey Gobekli Tepe in the area of turkey that by the way was once historic Armenia Gobekli Tepe pops up its dated by the German archaeological Institute they discover that this huge complex of stone circles has been deliberately buried 10,000 years ago and the carbon dating because you can't date Stones you have to date or

anak materials the carbon dating of organic materials found with those Stone circles puts their age back to 12,000 years and more for you that must have been like Christmas it was like Christmas it was like Christmas it was like it was like a gift I you know I don't want to there were I have to confess I mean we all have egos of course I have to confess that that it was a nice moment for me when the new scientist magazine in Britain which years ago back in the 90s when I

published Fingerprints of the Gods was amongst the magazines that attacked my work as quote unquote pseudo-scientific and all of the I don't know how my work can be sort of scientific because I don't claim to be a scientist I'm a fucking journalist you know I'm not I'm not a scientist how can I be a pseudo-scientists but here's a guy who's going obsessed with an idea kind of little band and the little we'd like and if that's a shit Nick yeah so anyway New Scientist magazine back in the 1990's was saying that I was wrong with basic messages

the prince of the Gods is history is much older and much more mysterious than we've been told so it was great in October 2013 when you scientist magazine came out with a headline saying history is much older and more mysterious than we thought it's funny this should be part of that Hancock was right that's a good title should have been in my neck or sorry dude in my next life we're fucking with you but there was there was Gobekli Tepe and and that's that's what changes everything yeah they're really done guys well just say I guess we may be running out of time but I'll just say are we good yeah

I just say also Indonesia which is the the other place that my wife Samantha and I have done a lot of research in the last six or seven months has been found what was thought to be a 2500 year old site on top of the hill a site made of blocks of columnar basalt which forms naturally but which can be used as a construction medium okay it's called gunung Padang and on the top of a hill in a series of terraces

rather extraordinary Monument thought to be about 2,500 years old made of these blocks of columnar basalt no really thorough research was ever done by archaeologists a little bit of trenching down to about half of half a meter in depth was done and some carbon was brought up and dated but really the site it was just kind of taken for granted that it was two and a half thousand years old along comes down in Ottawa GGA who is a Caltech trained PhD geologist working out of the city of Bandung in government agency of the

Asian government in fact he particularly focuses on earthquakes earthquakes are his thing he comes along and he's intrigued by going on Caddo first of all that there's old traditions about it being a sacred Place let's go back at seem to go back a very very very long way and he starts to look at it as a geologist and what he realizes suddenly it comes to him he's not looking at a natural hill he's looking at a pyramid on top of which is this relatively recent Monument but somebody built a pyramid there so he begins work on this so it's

in dirt it looks like a grown but it's a inside it's a it's a man-made structure that was down his intuition but then he had to prove it so he put together a team and they did a huge amount of remote sensing work and some core drilling down to depth of about 15 metres into the top of the hill and what they what they discovered was incredibly tempting it supports Danny's intuition that we are looking at a man-made pyramid here it has produces dates that go back as much as 26,000 years right into the

the last ice age and the remote sensing equipment shows rather regular cavities inside the monument which look like chambers of some kind well naturally Danny and his team were stopped working for quite a long while by the archaeological establishment in Indonesia who said we know that this structure is two and a half thousand years old and there's no need for any further research on it and it's just disturbs the local villagers and go away and so they lobbied and they had him stopped but Danny took it to the highest level

he got the support of the Indonesian government and two and a half weeks ago they started work Excavating thoroughly Excavating Growing Power and so far the results laundry interest see a building 26,000 26,000 years old and again you know we can't I can't summon up a map magically but if I were to do so consider Indonesia which is a long string of islands today but if you go back 12 and a half thousand years ago that long streak of art string of islands is joined to a

gigantic Mainland huge you know Ice Age continent because sea level is hundreds of feet lower and therefore Indonesia becomes actually quite a plausible place for some sort of Hall of Records some sort of Time Capsule because Gobekli Tepe is also a Time Capsule that's so absolutely incredible I can't say fascinating Market people started giving me shit about it yeah last few podcasts I see I don't know when things are fascinating I can't come up with any it's you know meat and it's my way of going low there's interesting stuff

thing happening in the world I've been here before I've been lucky to spend some time exploring this I am writing a sequel to my best-known book undoubtedly is Fingerprints of the Gods the evidence for this Lost Civilization and what year was that 1995 1995 and now you know after being scorned and put down by the archaeological establishment there is enough new evidence out there for me to produce a whole other book that yeah well the whole other story to tell not an update of Fingerprints of God's word in a new book which looks at all of this information

but what's going on and Stonehenge this most recent - they discovered bigger than the rest of stone and the rest of Stonehenge see that's the thing you see this way archaeologists need to be a little more humble because the next turn of the Spade can change everything completely alter the story and we should always remain remain open to yeah just a one Discovery like that one farmer finding this Stone and Gobekli Tepe on our sis incredible structure that rewrites history and batteries and stern of the space that piece of stone is seen by American archaeologist in the 1950s

really and they are to decide not to look at it because it's so finally done that they think it belongs to the ottoman period within the last four or five hundred years actually it turns out to be 12,000 years old what's good at they didn't fuck with it they're probably don't yeah well it's it cool it happens this way gotta Jam an archaeological this you later unfortunately they've stuck a hideous roof over the top of Gobekli Tepe now they have so it's trying to keep it from decaying or something look it was 19 years it was exposed to the sun it was out there

there it was being they began the excavations in 1996 and it's fine fine and now that they finished the excavations they decide that in that particular area they're Excavating other areas they decide to stick this horrendous roof over it which cut out the light makes it impossible to see the stone pillars the roof is badly built so it there are platforms built inside it on which huge heaps of stones have been piled up that's to keep the roof on if there's any high winds so certainly yes so suddenly the possibility of any kind of magical experience at the

most intriguing and mysterious ancient site is completely written off by this hideous piece of so-called protective architecture which in my view is just the worst kind of vandalism I've really offended by it I've been went back to I was in Gobekli Tepe in 2013 I went back again this year and I am I was just horrified it made me feel physically sick to see what had been what had been done to it that's so bizarre the desire to is it because to sell tickets so people have to pay to get in there

I think I think it's a kind of in this case I think it's kind of possession this is ours we've seen it with the experts with the authorities wow no deals we really get to form an opinion about it because we can damage its appearance so much in protecting it that it'll that it'll lose its essential mystery well it just seems bizarre that they're trying to protect stone that doesn't make any sense it's like imagine if someone decided to put a giant canopy over the Sphinx you'd be like what are you talking about I've been here

ever dumps and this is being done at archaeological sites around the world have been done it manager and I go demon in Malta which have profound astronomical alignments you stick a fucking great Dome over the top of it yeah it's being done at Rosslyn Chapel in Edinburgh we ruined everything everything and the worst of the worst vandals are often the authorities those who are in control well that's how we hawass guys in the Pokey now right no he's not didn't he get arrest him he did but all the charges were dropped oh came up with some shackles yeah

yeah situation he said he's a big front man for Egypt still running everything over there no running everything but he's got an official position in relation to the promotion of Tourism and so bizarre when you see those guys Soviet we opposed to new information which is essentially what the ideas being proposed are there's new information there's certain pieces of new information that in my mind are just undeniable the Robert schoch stuff show I mean I'm trying by the way I my first trip to go back to Tepee Robert schoch and I traveled together

you guys made a video right there was some filming yeah but we were we were at Gobekli Tepe in December sorry not Gobekli Tepe at gunung Padang in Indonesia shock and I were there in December 2013 and then I went back again with what was his impression of it his impression was very much that this is an intriguing site he looked at the remote see as a geologist he can understand what remote scanning paperwork looks like and he looked at what Danny's team had produced and so this is you know absolutely fascinating it really deserves

nerves further research and that's now what it's getting fortunate well it's just amazing when they uncover these things like I love the ones that they find in Mexico when they're like building something and then they stumble upon some ancient Aztec Temple not many people who go to church and Itza and see the temple of kukulcan there the Pyramid of kukulcan which is the famous monument of Chichen Itza not many people realize that there's another pyramid inside it which is inside inside it there's a little door at the bottom of the northern stairway and in the I don't think it can be done

plays have been so tightly controlled I don't think people even allowed to climb the Pyramid of kukulcan when did they stop that I believe that stopped in the last two or three years I was there I was that know it may be a little longer I was in the last time I was there was in 2010 and then it was stopped well they said I did see an erosion at people's feet I don't know they were there maybe they're still kind of arguments but but the fact is it was possible to climb it yeah I used to I did that back in the 90s anyway inside it is a whole second

aramid the pyramid that we see has been built on top of an earlier one and there's a passageway that leads up to the top of it and there's an altar and there's a figure of a puma or a Jaguar inside is very spooky Place wow yeah that whole whole complex is so incredible it's so amazing to think that you know D I know you scuba dive if you ever done those tunnels that they found in the Senators yeah I know I hope those are terrifying yeah these people scuba dive and they go there's his Mayan tunnels that they had found

that are underwater yeah so you have to but the people that are treasure Hunters have gone into these things and found these incredible artifacts but you got to be willing to swim underwater with scuba gear in a dark tunnel for a long time yes but they're long like you can get a mile in yes that's that technique takes tremendous courage also takes also takes very special equipment you know you're having to having to carry a lot more air with you and it would be very complex mixture of gases and sometimes they have narrow passages

have to squeeze through one of the most cave cave diving is one of the most dangerous things you know because because I'll tell you why because the the entrance passage can be long and winding there can be several alternative routes through it and it's often heavily Laden with silt with sediment if the dryer if the diver is not very experienced or if the diver panics and starts thrashing around that silt silt gets thrown up into the water and completely fills the water so that you can't see your hand in front of your face and suddenly your

Mile in a hundred feet deep and blind oh fuck

that was one of the most legitimate freak out of ever having a podcast right there are you saying that yeah it's me thinking that was just a tremendous freak out yeah just the idea of being knowing that it's going to run out of air before it settles to yes oh yes you're done for unless unless you can find your way less by some miracle you can find your way through that fog with the very first thing if you're going to do that that you have to do is you have to calm your mind you're freaking me out yeah yeah whoo

let's talk about my novels then well there's some those people are just Brave as fuck it's just amazing and people are willing to do that yeah it's got its courage it's courage my courage of the warrior anyway so is this how many novels have you written there so I've written three this is the third well I've written entangled which is a whole other story and then I've written volume 1 and volume 2 of war god the first volume was walk out nights of the which it was published in 2013 there was a big support and take up from your

your audience which is beautiful really grateful for I heard a lot of positive reviews to people enjoyed it thank you and I made I made an offer at that time on your show where I said that if people wrote to me at a particular address which is war god dedications at gmail.com and sent me their own address and showed me that they pre-ordered the book I would send them assigned dedicated bookplate in other words I would sign a label I would dedicate it to them I would send it to them little did I know that nearly 5,000 people

I would ask for those sign dedicated bookplates it became a massive labor of love myself and my wife's aunt that she's doing the enveloping I'm dealing with the correspondence putting the signing that signing the book plates we're going to the post office we're spending thousands of pounds on Postage and but it was great it was a fantastic thing and it gave and it and it helped the book to get noticed because there was great skepticism about buying a second volume from my Publishers unless the first volume worked and the first volume worked enough

so for me to be commissioned to write Volume 2 of what God which is called war god Return of the plume Serpent and that is published on the 9th of October and I'm making the same special offer very limited don't to to your route but it's going to be a bit different first time first off the if you go to my website go to www.graebert.com and go to the war god page it's very easy to get there right scroll down at the bottom of the page that shows the covers of all the editions

and you will find a statement there and that is that if people write to me if people pre-order the first of all they have to preorder either order volume 1 or pre-order volume to Amazon don't take your money until they actually send the book and I've got the links to amazon.com there I will when I finish my travels and I'm going to be on the road until the 27th of October but during November I will send out those bookplates again but what I can't do this time is I can't get

get into personal correspondence with people it was very interesting it was very touching and heart and heartwarming thing that so many people wrote to me and so many of them I wanted to speak back to them I just very cold you know to receive a letter and not reply so I did but I the problem this year is that I've got to write the sequel to Fingerprints of the guards and I'd really need to start that during November because my research travels will be over at that point I've got to write that and I can't spend two months or three months

something in detail so my my offer is right to me show me that you've bought the book or pre-ordered Volume 2 and above all please give me a postal address because you can't imagine how many times people write to me asking for the book place and don't give me their postal address please give me a postal address and when I get back from my travels I will sign the bookplates I will send you a signed book plate which is simply a label that you can stick inside your copy of the book and that if if that results in a bit more uptake for war god to it'll be

good for me because it's very difficult to start to sort of new career as a novelist at the age of 64 and but you seem to be really enjoying I love it I love writing novels and I love getting this why I was talking about Warriors earlier I love getting into the spirit of the warrior I don't know why it's fascinating it's just it's just absolutely fast and what would drive a man like Cortez to take 490 men and and face them against the might of the Aztec empire hundreds of thousands of men under arms who will kill you in the most awful

if they if they catch you what kind of will does it take to do that and and it was it's been interesting for me to get inside the heads of these people and also to consider because I'm interested in them Supernatural elements were they being misled by demonic forces in some way that's something that I exam there so I love doing it but it's I'm known as a nonfiction author and that's mainly what I do people buy nonfiction because they're interested in the subject very often people by a novelist because they trust that novelist and know that his

next book will be good when I need to personally - it's your fascination with demons what's your fascination with Supernatural influences and the concept of demons for a long time I didn't believe in any spiritual element to life I was I didn't see any of that at all it was only really when I send this is where my critics will say well Hancock's gone nuts you know it was only really when I started drinking Ayahuasca in 2003 I suppose for a decade before that I'd been immersed in the ancient Egyptian texts

and the ancient Egyptians are all about the Quest for Immortal Life they're all they're all about how you live this life to continue on as a spirit and ultimately to live the life of millions of years and they very clearly indicate that dark Forces are at work in the universe which can mislead us as well as there are light and positive forces that we can choose to follow which will lead us into very nurturing and worthwhile and excellent directions all those influences are there

so that's there in ancient Egypt then I start drinking Ayahuasca in 2003 and I encounter seamlessly convincing parallel Realms inhabited by intelligent beings some of whom seem very dark and dangerous and some of and some of whom are filled with light and joy and exercise the power of healing now I absolutely accept that all of this could be a projection or a creation of my own mind that there is no

exterior reality to it whatsoever it's just that all there is but I don't think it's that way I think I think that what happens in a deeply altered state of consciousness is that we reach you in the receiver wavelength of the brain and encounter other levels of reality that are normally closed off to our senses and the first thing I would say to any I know that a number of people have worked with psychedelics in depth haven't come to that conclusion I know that but the conclusion that I come to might the little off

offering that I bring to the table than that many others have brought is that there is a separate freestanding reality of some kind which we don't fully understand yet and that in ordered States Of Consciousness we can encounter interact with that reality

that's the that's the view that I have now in that reality are spiritual forces some of which seem to eat fear in energy and and dark energy they thrive on they think they seem to thrive on anything that's miserable or Wicked or cruel or thoughtless or vile about humanity and at the other side of it are entities that glow with light and love and that and that seek to show us how we may bring

to light that Divine spark within us to go back to the Gnostic the Gnostic idea those you encounter in a very direct way in the Ayahuasca Journey because unlike you do encounter them in the DMT journey to they're not quite the same but unlike DMT Ayahuasca allows time for really processing and thinking through what you're experiencing its unfolding over four hours not four or five minutes and that you know that is is a huge effect and it had a huge effect on me and I'm

I'm not adamant about this I accept I could be fantasizing it all it's interesting that other people encounter pretty much the same beings and and the same sort of drive to do something better than they've done before right it's interesting that there's that transpersonal side of it I choose to believe that there are freestanding parallel dimensions and that we are encountering them in Altered States Of Consciousness and that therefore there's interesting scientific work to be done because in theory we could actually begin the targeted exploration of those by mentions

using volunteers and and psychedelics I choose to believe that that's what's going on I could be completely wrong we could just be the Majesty of the human mind and we just invent all these worlds that's how I was going to ask you what's the most compelling argument against it like what's the most compelling large article argument rather from like a neurological standpoint like has anybody ever explain to you like what's going on isn't a compelling argument I don't know there isn't a compelling argument there's a reference frame and the reference frame and this is again where I got myself into so much trouble with Ted the reference frame is the

reference frame of materialist science and that reference frame says that all Consciousness is a kind of accidental epiphenomenon of brain activity there's actually no reality to Consciousness that is not something that's been proven scientifically and experimental e it is just the way that a large and influential group of scientists see the world that everything can be reduced to material causes so the changes in brain activity that accompany Visions you can measure you

observe those changes on MRI scanner those changes in brain activity are the experience you're having according to this reference frame you're at your experience can just be reduced to that and there's nothing else to it but that's not a fact that is a that is a philosophical view about how reality works we don't know for sure it could easily be the other way around that the brain activity is simply necessary in order for us to see something that was always there

there was normally closed off to our senses so the the compelling argument as far as like what's happening when you having these extreme visual experiences what's what is it what is the argument has anybody ever tried to explain it is it just some supposed to be some chemical reaction with your cerebral cortex that is the yes that is the usual that is the materialist reductionist view right but it's just that and nothing more but there's a whole other view on it rick Strassman at the University of New Mexico

you're very familiar with his way because you presented The Spirit Molecule yes Rick's Rick Strassman does entertain the possibility that what is going on is not merely in and of our brains but does represent stable freestanding dimensions of reality we have no facts in this but we have an incredibly intriguing area to inquire into you know yeah and it's also one of those things where I feel like when you've experienced it yourself you get a really better frame of reference as to why this is compelling at all because it sounds Preposterous to someone who has no experience

variants I know I know I really do it's you know because I'm going to have loads of people saying hi kokes it Rookie of course yeah too late but you know it's there's that thing that people want when you want to Define certain aspects of whatever the Psychedelic experience is where they seem to be almost impossible to Define for people who have actually experienced it yes the real problem is when someone who hasn't experienced it tries to Define it it's like man you can come up with a bunch of really

compelling arguments from like a medical standpoint stock what is what's the effect on the cerebral cortex what's the effect on the visual aspects of you know the your interpretation of this thing is because of this chemical interacting with that that's all fascinating amazing stuff but the thing about science is that science to present it as fact when it isn't I many times given this very simple analogy of the telescope which I think explains the logical problem in the materialist View

you if you want to look at a distant star with your telescope you're going to point it at the right area of the sky first of all and then you're going to focus it and as you focus it physical changes will take place in the relationship between the lenses inside the barrel of the telescope yeah right okay eventually the star will come into view and you can see it clearly you'd be completely wrong to say that the star is the physical changes inside the barrel of the telescope those physical changes have simply allowed you to see the star whoa and that's the rumor

come on and that's the same idea with DMT that it's that it's changing brain function to allow you to see something that you couldn't it's refocusing the brain in other words wow that's very possible that's hard to prove it but it's an interesting inquiry I never thought about it that way I don't think not entirely and and interesting experiments could be done to test that with human volunteers you could you could begin to investigate if there is a free-standing reality then that we ought to be able to get certain information out of it that the the should be possibilities so you know

yeah the high always had just done it as a chemical Gateway yeah but I think this is a way better way of explaining it the idea of a telescope having to focus in to see something and then the the chemicals focusing you in yeah that a chemical your own brain makes your own brain makes it focusing you and perhaps for some very good reasons wow that's amazing I never thought about it that way before yeah but whatever it is it's pretty fucking profound and for someone to comment on that hasn't

it seems kind of silly especially because it's only 15 minutes it is disrespectful to speak of it to it's fine to speak of it that is disrespectful to put it down without having had the you know the guts actually to have the experience yourself don't you think it's becoming more and more accepted though because I think for a long time academics resisted taking it or if they did take it talking about it because they didn't want to be labeled because there's a lot of people of course that will label you if you talk about psychedelics are very recently it's been considered a career ruining me

move you know if ya can talk very recently like that's even though they all knew the news yeah L knew the positive side of this but this is again gradually changing and again I think the American role the role of the American people in changing the legal status of cannabis state by state is also going to feed into this and allow us to have a more rational dialogue regarding psychedelics which can be of course I'm not saying to people you go out and take psychedelics what I'm saying is that these are very powerful

it's and that they can be extremely healing used in the right way and they can change our whole view of reality why should we be forbidden to explore that if as responsible adults we choose to do so yeah it's I the argument is stupid and I think the argument is eventually going away and I think it'll be replaced by a new argument and then the new argument is what the fuck is really happening yeah and yours it your question about it the or your proposal is vast very

anyone but whatever it is those things are there and you can benefit from them or not it's up to you but if it's the fact that we live in a world where those are illegal is crazy this is on and if people are having very bad experiences from time to time with psychedelics part of the reason for that is the world we've created where these are illegal and where it's impossible for people to get good advice that they can trust and weathers this atmosphere of danger and threat that surrounds it take all that away and this very powerful instrument

can be managed much more effectively no no no doubt and I equate it a lot of ways this this idea of it being bad negative I pack weight in a lot of ways to vaccinations and here's why there's this vaccination is anti-vaccination movement in this country a lot of people feel like vaccinations are unnecessary and they may have some good arguments they may have some good arguments especially about some certain vaccinations for things that are sexually transmitted diseases and things along those lines like hepatitis shots shit you're giving

a little kids like there's there's a real good argument against that and there's a little there's a definitely an argument that there's a lot of medication that kids are taking and is it the right amount yeah but there's no argument that vaccinations haven't saved a fuck ton of lives because they have they've stopped a lot of diseases dead in their tracks absolute but they also much like we talked about some people are allergic to cats some people are very different biological reactions all sorts of different chemicals and there's going to be some ever

reaction plus there is someone your body that I absolutely agree that vaccinations are incredibly effective medical tool in many ways but there also is a kind of vaccination Mafia yes because they're the ultimate Mass medication and people are making money there's no doubt there's whenever there's profits there's fuckery is no getting around it was just the way he anchoring big side by side so the yeah it's it's one of those scenarios very much like psychedelics in a way that they are going to be some rare cases if we make

psychedelics legal across the board there's going to be some rare cases of a person in a bad state of mind or a bad mental makeup or what-have-you bad psychological makeup fill in the blanks where they take it and it's detrimental to them it's going to happen and that'll be highly publicized and used as an argument to stop old rice freedoms and building such as ridiculous Hicks had the very best answer to that as I'm sure as I'm sure you remember you know that the The Lunatic who leaps out of the window and and he can fly on LSD why didn't the fuck it

take off from the ground you know this because we lost a moron the world got lighter exactly World got lighters one of my favorite lines beautiful yeah but that's um that is you know

it's just a strange argument to keep people from doing it because especially like this doctor that we're talking about earlier that's talking about cannabis in the addictive properties Canyons these even even talking to someone who was addicted to cannabis and you it's still it's a it's a silly I like there's a lot going on when someone's addicted yeah it's not all necessarily chemical and the ones that are chemical you're getting paid for so that only makes sense the ones that chemically make you addicted as the ones you're getting money from and that's why people have fed up with all of this shit because it's so

Upton it's so wrong and it's time that is time that a new Direction was taken and there are people who are on the wrong side of history on this yeah and there will be but but we are moving forward I think we are as well I think it's it's it's pretty cool to see to yeah but you know I think it's also important that guy like you who smoke pot from 9 a.m. to 2 a.m. every day seven days a week seven days a week 365 days a year going to enormous lengths to be able to obtain it when I was traveling yes how

you know it is it is I do know what I'm talking about I had yeah I had a long relationship with it and I understand how how do you feel now having a good dip back in the water little bit I feel good but I don't feel any urge to become you know that guy again smoker yeah like my clarity I vow I was able to write with cannabis but since I stopped smoking cannabis I've been clear my mind there's been a clarities there's a certain fog was lifted that fog wouldn't have been there if I'd had one

the weekend and that was all but it since I was smoking all day long that's why it was there it's nice not to have that folk yeah that about I feel more productive I write on my novels I can write five thousand words a day sometimes I get so zone so into the flow you know all that all that is good and I feel I feel good about it and I think feel probably in the long run my right choice would not to be have a big have a big relationship with cannabis I think I've done that been there I've done that uh you know I've got the T-shirt yeah for me it's a tool I don't use the same

everyday is that sometimes when I use any tools yeah I don't need it but it has a pretty profound effect a lot of ways yes you know one of my favorite things to do is at night get high and go down to the beach okay and stare at the ocean I used to love doing that oh my God that thing freaks me out when I'm high when you're when you're high yes it's a goddess yeah it's a monster it's a living thing almost it's a force it's a nature force that doesn't give a fuck about you I think there's ones reason

I like people that live by the beach or so mellow yeah the beach communities are notoriously mellow that's true and I think one of the reasons why they're notoriously mellow is because they're faced with overwhelming evidence that they ain't shit yes you're sitting there looking out at the greatest like natural force that you could imagine it's an entire different world you're out there literally it's like if we had explained it in a galactic term it would be like your parking yourself next

to the membrane between Dimensions I mean you are literally in this world over here and right next to your face is a whole nother world like we couldn't even imagine that but that the fuck exactly what it is if you go like if you go to Santa Monica and you go over by where that Pier as and you just walk along that sand and just start walking out in that water you're in another world in like 20 steps absolutely you're on your over your head and you're in another dimension that you can't survive in but get the fuck back it doesn't feel like you went to another

but you might as well have gone to another planet definitely it is right there one of my strongest experiences of diving was just to tell a little story was diving it off Tenerife in the Canary Islands and I was down at good 20 meters underwater let's say 70 feet but there was a storm that day and the huge swell on the surface was so powerful that it was smashing me against the bottom of the sea oh my god bang bang bang and

and I just that moment I realized I am I'm in the hands of a gigantic Force but I can do absolutely nothing about there's nothing you can do see the sea for me is a goddess fortunately I got over a lip and down into deeper water and it was okay deeper water yeah another 10 meters what the fuck man how long did you have to wait it out that was another story we stayed down for about 20-25 minutes we then had to have to come up with

in working quite hard at depth that you get through your get through your are but what we hadn't done was recce the exit point and when we surfaced in this heavy swell it was extremely difficult to get out of the see the Rocks came down quite Steep and she I think we discussed this yeah before you came up with a different spot yeah and it was bad but anyway here I am tell the tale an older and wiser man Greg Fitzsimmons is a terrifying he's a good buddy of mine very funny stand-up comedian has a

defying store if he was on vacation he saw a woman drowning and he went out to save her and he would realize you're hanging on to this woman swim and back while his kids and his wife and everyone was on the shore he was like holy shit like I'm trying to save someone here and I sometimes when people try to say people they get drowned I know happens often yeah opens off yeah that's and you know he said that the the tide was a little bit too strong who's really spooked the same time see you something to respect fuck yeah something something fastly had is that's a terrifying thing but that's my favorite thing to one of my favorite things

do one or two Beach late at night yeah by myself smoke a spliff just stand out there and stare at by myself puts everything in perspective yeah it's just it's like the ultimate it's very psych it not just like a dog but it's very isolation tank asked in a way it's an overwhelming amount of information but there's like Solitude in the sound and the noise that sort of drowns out the rest of the world doesn't totally drown it out like an isolation tank does but it has a partial effect because you get it Sam

moving but semi static image because it's these water waves that are coming at you and they're very similar so you're getting this very similar thing over and over again with very little variation and then there's the overwhelming number the gallons of water that's just so in front of you so you can't see past this fucking thing and it's dark so then there's the unknown the unknown which is the big freaker you know you're looking out this black monster and sometimes when it's black monster you get a better sense of it than when it's this beautiful blue thing during the day when the

hitting in its reflecting because you need of all is visual stuff that's distracting you from the fact that's how fuckload of water giant fuckload of water it's right there yeah and he could just go which just come in like this which are you going and everything's gone like a thousand fucking feet high waves can that's happened before has has happened before laughter side of that spot also part of the new research that I'm doing and I'm about to do a trip with Randall Cardinal cross has been on your show

of him you know Randall was so far ahead of the curve in recognizing that the gigantic flooding that came off the North American ice cap wasn't just caused by what I used to think it was caused by which is that Lakes of meltwater develop on the surface of the ice cap and finally the damn the ice Dam breaks and the Melt water pours out Randall been pointing out for years that the water flows were much too radical for that something much bigger had to be had to be involved so he was well ahead of the evidence when scientist

down to realize that the North American ice cap had been hit by a comet twelve thousand nine hundred and eighty years ago set in motion the Epic the geologist called the younger dryers so ran and so Randall is a great expert in this in this area my wife's answers traveling with us as well and a friend of Randall's who's worked with him for many years called Bradley and we're going to do a road trip from Portland Oregon all the way to Minneapolis following the about 2,000 miles I believe following the southern edge of the former ice cap and Randall

is going to show us the scars and tears on the landscape of what happened when that ice cap was instantly liquidized via comet impact and and huge tidal waves of water raw down off it across the lands good Lord how to see that in detail with Randall really looking forward to doing that also the first time I've ever crossed well most of America by Road I've always wanted to do that the certain spots shouldn't stop if you feel like you're in danger you're in danger yeah get in the car hit the gas yeah and if you

you know what country music is you got to listen to some of that yeah wholesome country music gonna fit in you gotta blend in okay can you fake a Southern accent because if they think you're from the England I can do my best you know the from the Anglin they won't like him and they want that get very upset it'll go down thank you better knows what are you dr. who the funny thing is in England I often get mistaken for an America do you really it's weird you know he had nobody nobody's in any doubt what I am but in England named after American yeah or sometimes Canadian whoa Canada has a

a bit of that there's like a certain amount of English it sounds like in there the way they talk about things is certain a clear variation between Emin us if there is definitely a even I can hear that and I've got a tin ear yeah I can I can hear that too yeah it's a I can totally tell can make a Canadian after a while but so similar yeah very similar yeah that's hilarious that anybody would ever think you're American you know I know anyways going to be great I'm really looking forward to this moist that sounds fantastic is going to take loads and loads of pictures

we're going to go up in an airplane a few times and look at the look at the land underneath us and it's going to be a great exciting research trip and it's the last research trip for this sequel that I'm writing the fee I'm sure you've seen this most recent discovery about micro-diamonds yeah that's exactly it yes that's that's precisely that is the that has finally settled it any scientists who were attempting to argue that there wasn't a comet impact now with all the evidence that's come in over the last five or six years is just settled by the Nano diamonds scattered in a huge swath all over the world which

HR assure chemical imprint of a massive comet impact and they know a lot about it now it's really very very clear and this was an episode that changed the world it killed off the many of the megafauna that we've all heard of the mammoth the woolly rhinos and so on and so forth and it got rid of what was called the Clovis culture a hunter-gatherer culture in the United States and I think it got rid of a whole civilization that we've only remembered in myth and memory at least that's the

line that I'm investigating it's a fascinating line especially when as H visit that you come back to the podcast there's new information over the last time it was the nuclear glass yeah that they discovered when they were doing core samples again was about 12,000 years ago right and then the new one is this micro-diamonds it seems like over and over again this this not it becomes not a possibility but a reality that there was some sort of an impact something gigantic happened but all over the world and write it wasn't just no no no all over the world it was massive in America but it was the

it was everywhere both impacts because this Comet broke up into fragments like shoemaker-levy 9 both impacts but also very important the gigantic cloud of dust that thrown up into the upper atmosphere which then so you have this immediate reaction of flooding as the comet liquidizer as part of the North American ice cap and then a huge dust plume is up in the air all over the world and the whole earth is shrouded in dust as fan cooled and cool because it's reflecting back the sun's Rays so we go into this 1,300 1,400

Gia period called the younger dryas where the Earth gets incredibly cold even though previously it had been coming out of the out of the ice age is truly a gigantic event and then weirdly all our history everything we think of as our past begins at the end of the younger dryas around kicks in twelve thousand nine hundred and eighty years ago ends 11,600 years ago the earth begins to warm up begins to warm up again and everything we know about ourselves or can claim we know unfolds in that last eleven thousand six hundred years and the period before the

your dryers we really blank on so much of it it's so fascinating I said it again shit it's it's amazing that all this information keeps coming up to support this and it's amazing if we do consider the possibility that it is true that everything can be essentially shut back down to 0 with some rocks from the sky and then that that's something that we really need to get in our head that could happen there are is it very distinct possibility that we could be hit by something the NASA photographs of the I think they

the Black Diamond the Earth at night okay what you see is certain areas of the world a brightly lit up Europe North America for example on the other hand Africa and large parts of South America are dark because there's no electric electrification in those areas and those photographs are often taken to say to speak of our achievement look how we can light up the planet like a like a Christmas tree so that it can be viewed from view from

space but I would say also says another thing that if we had if we were to confront again the same sort of cataclysm that hit the earth twelve thousand nine hundred and eighty years ago then the people who would survive and carry the human story forward would be those very people who live in the dark areas the areas that aren't electrified and we who live in the glowing lights that show up on those NASA photographs who become so specialized who most of us are unable even to know how to plant

vegetable or hunt an animal we're the ones who would who would be gone and the whole order of the world would be reversed whoa so the world would become like an Ayahuasca culture you'd have all these fucking people from the Amazon that would be fine because they're fed are fine they'd be absolutely right they know how to survive you know they know they know how to do it so again I think the message of this is we shouldn't be arrogant and complacent in the achievements of our civilization we have done wonderful and amazing things as well as terrible things but we shouldn't be arrogant or conceited

complacent about it we should recognize it's all very fragile can be taken away from us at any time we can take it away from ourselves without a doubt the information is something consider just the information about these

these impacts it's something to consider and it's also something to consider that if that's correct boy what a magical time it must have been back when they had developed some sort of technology that was enabling them to make structures like Gobekli Tepe is why I'm there holding a magician's of the Gods because there's something magical yeah I think something about it that we would we would call Magic but house was just another another form of science well yeah whatever they were able to

I mean it's amazing that we haven't figured it out yet but we're so arrogant in our assumptions that it had to be all the ways that we've already figured out the so silly that's it is like isn't there some shit we haven't figured out yet exactly like this new this new ability that they've just found out that they've been taking people and they've used the internet to send information from one person's mind another person saying that 5,000 miles away it's incredible but nobody else did that before that so we didn't really think that that was we thought maybe you'd be a possibility but now we know it's possibility well if it

whatever the fuck they did to make these pyramids like just because we haven't figured it out yet doesn't mean that were using wooden rollers like they could have had some really incredible technology that just we don't have a trace of it anymore looking at the phone technology that we don't recognize exactly because we're programmed to think about entirely in our own terms and it's almost like the universe is giving us a puzzle that's so incredibly in your face with its most obvious results and because because we

these preconceived notions that were not willing to accept that as possibility like when people look at the pyramids they go well you know the thing is they build ramps and they use Stone rollers and like yeah there's a whole faction who will look for the most boring meaningless poison might have but they might have died but they might have been that but the fact that that there are large groups of people whose mission is to look for the most boring rather than the most extraordinary possibility it's good that's how we have balance in our society we do need to look we do need to look with a skeptical eye and say that

that there could be mundane explanations for this but we also need to keep a tiny fraction of our research effort perhaps a very small fraction indeed to exploring Alternatives luring alternative ideas because every that if they do come out right they change everything in the way that the mundane things don't and it's really worthwhile and the only thing I'm understand why I've been subjected to so much criticism and I welcome it I've learnt a great deal from that criticism but is it wise for us to live in a society

is hostile to the exploration of extraordinary possibilities shouldn't we actually protect that and make that something which which we encourage those who wish to do so in our society to do just on the off chance that they might come up with something utterly world-changing especially if it's done with careful consideration like you've done or especially like would Randall Carlson is done with asteroidal impacts is absolutely stunning and fascinating I mean and what he's done is done with very careful consideration solutely rattles real he's a real scholar real thorough research and

Gator and he was awesome on the podcast was one of my all-time favorites yet these these ideas are fascinating but what I was going to say was that it's almost like the number is so large like 2,300,000 stones the Great Pyramid it's which is so bizarre the numbers Indian tons yeah the number box of 50 to 70 tons will think the king's chamber elevated to Heights of 300 feet above the ground it's almost perfectly aligned to true north south east and west within a fraction of a single degree you know so crazy that the

like if they could come back from from the past and if they come to our time today and go wait a minute how did you guys think we did this you think we use slaves oh my God that's so funny yeah yeah You Got It Bad come over here man tell him tell him how you think we made the pyramids slaves on would get the fuck out of here you saying that exactly like laughing like you guys haven't invented this Magneto thing yet nice something that allows you to turn the mean you turned out not to move things with stat with sound yeah you don't know how to manifest things out of

the air we don't know how to exercise The Majestic and incredible power of your mind just we're running out of time we are on our Channel and if we're running out of time can I say it yes please because I am getting playful list please please if anybody out there would like to take me up on this offer just go to Graham Hancock.com go to the war god page which you'll find easily scroll down and see what to write to me but I have to repeat again I will send you the book plates but I can't correspond correspond and it will be November before I'm in a position to send the bookplate

I'm on the road continuously until the 27th Graham Hancock.com Graham Hancock.com I'm my goal is to make this so successful that you never make another offer ever again I want to I want to ruin you so then like that's such as you can't stop it all these things yeah too many coming in and you're like what the fuck am I doing why am I I can't do this this is my whole life now so you know it's just be the last one it's I think it'll probably be the last one by the way this there's chapters to read free online on the wall got page as well so I'm not asking people to defy sight unseen

and I can have a look beautiful and your book Fingerprints of the Gods I've said it before when you've been on the podcast for changed my single-handedly changed my ideas about history changed my ideas not just in not in any way discounting the amazing work that traditional his traditional historians have done but just that these things exist that defy explanation and that I didn't know just the fact that there is a guy from Boston University named Robert schoch who's a prominent geologist who said this is clear erosion and there was last time there's Rose was 9,000 BC

see ya like you're talking about an insane amount of time has passed since there was thousands of years of that rainfall by the way you needed thousands of years to do what we see on this this isn't wind like this is some crazy shit that's what I imagine doing anything appearance was to you know to bring together people like John Anthony West who brought Robert schoch to this feet Robert bauval like random Rose flemeth a lot of researchers were working in the field and coming up with extraordinary information and part of what I did in that book was to you know bring all that information together into a kind of synthesis I suppose it's such an interesting Theory and

it's such an interesting subject and now that it seems getting substantiated by places like Gobekli Tepe or these micro meteors it's sort of like yeah piece the puzzle together slowly but surely I think it's time goes on we're going to find there's going to be a bunch of civilizations that we uncover those ones that there are finding in Mexico and then of course there's ones that they're finding in the Amazon where they think just like we were talking about the other thing they find a hill you think it's a hill and then someone realizes like holy shit this is this is a building guy's huge earthquakes in the Amazon Stone circles you know

it's another place to look for A Lost Civilization we're out of time that's it right we're dying we're dying how much time we have it's counting down how much time give me Life in the seconds last time at all right thank you thank you Graham Hancock no it's thanks to our sponsors thanks to me undies thanks to tang and thanks to draftkings.com go there and do that and use those codes they were all earlier I said earlier it's fucking rewind it bitch but thank you also to everybody tune into this podcast and thanks for all the positive

of feedback and everything go to Graham hat got.com Graham Hancock.com and Order the book thank you sir appreciate very thanks Joe it's been fun