#1391 - Tulsi Gabbard & Jocko Willink

Nov 26, 2019

Tulsi Gabbard is a 2020 Presidential Candidate of the Democratic Party and is currently serving as the U.S. Representative for Hawaii’s 2nd congressional district since 2013. Jocko Willink is a decorated retired Navy SEAL officer, author of the book Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win, and co-founder of Echelon Front, where he is a leadership instructor, speaker, and executive coach. His new book "Leadership Strategies and Tactics" will be available in January 2020.

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day is the potential future leader of the Free World how about that and along with her is the Great and Powerful Jocko will link please welcome presidential candidate and US congresswoman Tulsi gabbard and my man Jocko willing

The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by now

night

I'm just get started how do we decide to do this I was trying to think about that because it's something you and I started interacting on it was somebody on Twitter somebody I don't know exactly how it started but I saw you replied to a tweet from somebody saying hey great idea why don't why doesn't Jocko and Tulsi go on the Rogan show and he's like yeah cool yeah you like I'm in yeah as I man but Jocko he'll say that to anything yeah I want to go to the Moon I man

good believe that Roger but it escalated quickly from there because I didn't know how to get ahold of you and the next thing I know you're texting me with Jocko like so are you serious so we doing this or what well it just seemed like such a good idea I agree whoever was salute ya so whoever you are thank you figure that out just seemed like a wise thing to get together because I'm both of your veterans and both of you I'm sure have things you agree on and disagree on but you're in a really unique

position here you know and since you've been on the podcast a lot of things have happened big the big one is when you rightly called out Kamala Harris on her past and what she's done and and then it seemed like everybody is attacking you it's like that opened up the floodgates and then there's all these hit pieces on in and as me as a person Observer watching from the outside is like wow look at the machine work look at the attack dogs go like look at this like this very transparent ah so if your

attention you're paying attention to thing is if you're on the outside and you watch it all happen then you go oh I see what's going on but if you just happened upon one of those articles yeah you can go ho she's in the sod supporter oh she's a terrible person oh she's at this and a dad and it was amazing it was amazing to watch like I don't know I've never met anybody like like you that's run for president like I knew you when people didn't know you that well and then all sudden people know you way more and now you're a kind of a household name so the watch this

process and to watch all the Machinery sort of move in your direction I'm coming up Carol it's very interesting yeah we've been like some I mean that literally is our challenge here is we are up against the most powerful overall political machine when you when you look at this this machine that's revved up their engines to try to you know Define me as something that casts suspicion or doubts or whatever

people's minds you know pushing information that isn't true or all of these different things and I think there's a few reasons for it our challenge is like we are battling the political establishment in Washington and it's because I'm telling the truth it's because I'm challenging the status quo that they represent and and that they've profited off for for a very long time so you know my campaign we don't take any contributions

from Pacs or lobbyists fueled completely by contributions from Individual people and they are out spending Us by many many multiples where we need help to challenge their narrative with the truth telling me a this is who I am this is why I'm running for president this is the experience in the background that I bring to this job we've got to be able to bypass that mainstream corporate media and just go directly

voters and what is the experience of being attacked feel like God I feel like I'm used to it so it's I mean it's just like it's it's nothing that I've ever really taken personally because I understand the situation you know I understand that you know whatever this mirrors are however radical they are you know it shows me that they feel threatened

and and they are concerned about both the unifying message that I'm bringing because we have Democrats Republicans Libertarians Independents who are joining this Coalition that that is fueling our campaign and it's a campaign of by and for the people and and one that's that's actually speaking the truth that's calling for an end to these regime-change wars calling for you know Addy escalation of tensions between the United States and other nuclear-armed countries and end to this new Cold War nuclear arms

actually hey let's focus our limited taxpayer dollars on actually serving the needs of our people that that's really the message that we're bringing and it scares the hell out of them what's interesting is for me again as an outsider it's a clear clear recognition that what they want versus what they say they want are two very different exactly the Democratic parties parties always been like we want a woman okay got you a woman how about a woman is a veteran check how about a woman that's a congressman

and how about that congresswoman veteran minority minority from Hawaii all these positives it is you're trying to dig up dirt and you don't have anything it should be behind you they should have wind in your sails but now the other thing they're saying is that you know in order for Democrat to beat Donald Trump in 2020 you're going to have to be able to take Trump voters away from him you're going to have to win over those Independence who stayed home in 2016 or even some of those Democrats who voted for Trump

because they feel like our party has left them behind guess what check check check check we're doing all those things and instead of saying hey this is really something that maybe we should get behind instead they're saying oh my gosh there's something very suspicious and we worried about her because she's actually stealing voters from Trump that's yeah that's the big one right has there ever been someone in your position that's get gotten caught in such a crossfire like to be taking this much heat from the party that

you're you know trying to represent is it seems I don't remember this happening thought Harris had a real shot and she's sunk Harris's ship that's exactly what happened I mean if you look at their there's a direct correlation between where Harris was standing and where she's at now and that debate it just you put holes in her boat which was I was Raising some very important issues related to Criminal Justice Reform you know ending the federal marijuana prohibition and essentially pointing to

leadership because we're all asking to lead this country and bring the experience that each of us has that's very distinct and different and and her whole campaign was based on the premise of being a prosecutor for the people being the Attorney General here in California and I you know I okay you've said you're proud of your record this is what you have done when you were in a position to make a positive change for the people instead you chose to do otherwise and I think that speaks louder louder than words

when you add more bullets in the chamber to because there was other things you didn't even touch it like you didn't really touch upon her saying to single mothers that she was going to prosecute them and lock them up if they didn't get their kids and skit and school laughing as she did so yeah I mean that's the I've seen her talk about that as if it's a good idea that this was a good solution yeah and I mean here are single moms into with a fear of jail if their kid didn't go to school yeah it's correct for that that's that's the challenge of this this debate format that's

so frustrating is you know you've got sixty to seventy five seconds to get your point across to be able to talk about hey here's my position here's what I would do with you know North Korea here's how I would deal with you know immigration reform in 60 seconds or less Jocko I don't even know how you stand politically which layer is because you're one of the few guys that's just not defined politically online because people think of you as such a Savage they leave all the politics out of it there's

guy don't know what he's get up get up at four o'clock in the morning leaves a puddle of sweat he's American he's Team America that's what I'm saying like it seems like you don't have this thing with like left or right you don't have this right or left distinction yeah and what's really interesting if you look at the demographics of like the people I meet when I go and speak its everyone its everyone from every different spectrum and I can I'm just talking my political beliefs are like hey I believe an individual for you

well that seems to be it's kind of hard to argue against that right yeah I believe in individual freedom and with that goes some level of individual responsibility yep okay I don't think the government is a great solution to a lot of our problems you know so for me it's like a smaller government probably a better thing and I think probably why you get this impression from me is I actually have a balanced I believe that the solutions are somewhere balanced and in

okay right now that that doesn't really get a lot of traction because everything is broken down into such little tiny sound bites of your either Pro this or you're against it and there's no gray area and by the way if you believe this you know if you believe yes and I believe no I actually hate you that's it and I'm going to attack you and that's why when when I started going back and forth with Tulsa you like you know I kind of get a gist of what she thinks I'm like oh cool guess what I think she serves she trains martial arts she plays

she plays ukulele know I can hang out with her if she even if our political beliefs aren't 100% aligned which my political beliefs aren't a hundred Center Line with anybody does that mean that I hate her and I'm never going to talk to him to call her out no actually it's like oh cool that's an interesting perspective because one thing that gets tied into all these things nowadays is our ego right our ego we paint ourselves into a corner where it's like I believe this and now the last thing we can do is say oh actually know what I that's a good point Joe you

you know you want to never thought of it from that perspective before and also just thinking of what other people's perspectives are because you know you just talked about single moms where you got to take that into perspective because it might be easy for me to say because I've got kids but I got a wife and and we can make things happen but all those single moms over here working two three jobs you know you always talk about me getting up at 4:30 in the morning and I would say look there's single moms out there that are getting up at 3:30 in the morning to go work there first shift at the diner so they can get to their second shift at the grade school or whatever they're working so they could do their third shift that's some other

restaurant at night like okay that's going on I got to understand that perspective and we all have to understand that perspective and the last thing when you talk about this 60 second answers which which is insane and you know I've been interviewed on TV before Bunch as well and it's actually crazy it's when you compare it to a podcast it's completely crazy that you have to fit your thoughts and do one sentence maybe two sentences and the 24-hour news cycle that we're on every news story that comes out is the end

end of the world right it's like the end of the world everything that happens is hey Trump did this or Pelosi to that this is the end of the world just like when if Hillary got elected as the end of the world if Trump gets elected as the end of the world you know I had early on right after Trump got elected somebody I was doing a Reddit AMA and as soon as I signed on for my Reddit AMA up Pops this question and it's clearly the guy had spent a lot of time writing it and it was this this sort of breakdown of the

Russians and Trump and all this negativity and and you know I basically took his whole paragraph and I answered it in one sentence I said America is stronger than one man and that's the truth like hey America is stronger than one man one man is not going to take down this country that's that's the way it is right it's hardship to turn look at what Trump's got accomplished you know he's working as hard as he can to get stuff done and he could barely move the needle right that's the way it is and on top of that look at what

opens with our political system you know we had Carter oh there's a backlash against Carter we have Reagan right oh you know you don't think these things go back and forth we end up with Clinton then we end up with bush you know the and then we end up with Obama at and then we end up with Trump so there's a balance that happens out so when I think of my political beliefs or where I stand politically it's like oh I stand you're not going to be able to place me very well because I'm going to listen to what different people have to say I'm going to try and understand what their perspectives are and then I'm going to

oh not what's best for me or what satisfies my ego but what's good for America well what actually makes sense for America and that's what I would move forward on tells you have you thought at all about doing a podcast of your own I have because it's been it's been a just a function of time and capacity almost like you could just have someone record some of your thoughts while you're on tour and just do it you know like it doesn't have to be overproduced yeah just real simple release it but that

ability to get those thoughts out there in a way where you you can form full sentences explore ideas express your concerns talk about it without the pressure of this buzzer when when you're in the middle of something congresswoman congresswoman congresswoman to get a cut the commercials right yeah the tide is waiting yeah man we got to sell a Toyota truck it's actually so goddamn crazy this is how we decide our leaders and the idea that isn't it possible can't someone Step Up can't apple or fucking

I'm song or something step up and say all right we're going to we are going to advertise at the beginning of this show and then we're going to promote the whole show so the whole show we're going to just let it run with no commercial interruptions no no and let it go let's do a few hours why should happen why we doing an hour like why is it two hours why it should be as long as it takes to get I mean didn't Lincoln do speeches that were hours long you know yelling right no microphone yeah it's so strange that we have decided

add that this commercial oriented meaning it has to be sandwiched in between commercials that this is the way we are going to let our potential Future Leaders discuss the most important thing on earth and it's going to be interrupt bike what gum in between it's so dumb and people are getting really turned off by it because they have Alternatives they have Alternatives and they're not getting anything of value from the conversation that's happening on

these these debates that have really like political reality TV they are completely set up for conflict and confrontation to drive up ratings so that they can make more money the corporate media can make more money the first debate had something like 22 million viewers the one that we just did I think had six point six million viewers and I meet people almost every single day they're like man I don't got time for that I don't get anything from it from it anyway and and you know

rather than rather than it being this this money driven ratings driven Venture which which you know the media is doing across the board both its debates and kind of what issues they're choosing to cover go back to like the League of Women Voters you know who used to actually host presidential forums that would have real questions about real issues that people care about and in a way that's not broken up by commercial breaks and advertisement so that people can make money yeah and this is

not hard to do Nam YouTube is available for virtually anyone who wants to set up an account this all could be done and it can be done very easily I mean it's the we're we're showing is the fragility that this this Antiquity this this ancient system that doesn't make any sense and we're seeing it evaporate before our eyes and with a guy like Trump and then people are using these debates knowing that they're going to get these sound bites and knowing that and you can see some of them work like yours with Kamala Harris and some of them

don't like when she was attacking Elizabeth Warren for not wanting Trump to get kicked off a Twitter like do you read his Twitter it's fantastic I keep them on this the best way we understand who he really is I mean you can get some of that out of speeches but when he posts a picture of Greenland with a giant truck tower in it and says I promise not to do this listen if you're on Team America you want that guy to keep tweeting because that was you know what's going on it's hilarious to you called it a while ago when you

you say hey no one there's no comedians that have run that have that skill which Trump has of that cracking jokes making fun of people letting the other jokes roll off his back because he doesn't care what people say about him basically and no one's really had to contend with that until now yeah it's really interesting like no one knows how to handle it it's really fun I mean when you watch the original Republican debates when he was running for president and he starts attacking these guys you see them back Marco Rubio the nickname the mm lock up your crazy

Ted like he's going after me he's ruining my thing it's just yeah it's it's a it's a Nutty place to watch what was do you get to hang out with Kamala Harris backstage no now I mean there's there's like let everybody know there's there there's like a just like a little holding area kind of space like a lot smaller than this room so and all you're all hanging out in there together during the commercial breaks yeah but usually I think you have eye contact with her no not maybe every now and then but

I honestly like yeah I I'm probably not on the top of her friend list yeah you psycho Battleship and then I mean Hillary Clinton yeah I wasn't sure how what's up with that war is it going you know she's the matriarch of the of the Clinton family and there she is the hero to many people of the democratic party and you two are scrapping

is that start when you did that start you did you you supported Bernie and 2016 is that where it started yeah okay that and that was something yeah back in 2016 I was the vice chair of the Democratic National Committee therefore as an officer the DNC had to remain neutral in the presidential election which it was my plan to do so I really made the decision to resign from that seat so that I could endorsed Bernie Sanders largely be car actions largely because of his

difference with Hillary Clinton and foreign policy you know Hillary Clinton had you know very much of an interventionist in my opinion kind of the Warhawk regime change War policy that she had shown throughout her time both in the administration as well as as US senator and Bernie Sanders you know lean the other way he's more of a non-interventionist and I saw that in those debates at that time the conversations that were had the media was not bringing up this difference between the two of them so the voters could make an informed choice

choice of who they want their commander-in-chief to be which to me just as you know as a soldier as a veteran as America I'm like how can you not be putting this issue at the Forefront so I resigned from that position endorsed Bernie Sanders started going out and just talking about and raising these issues on the campaign Trail but I remember one of the first interviews that I did on MSNBC the host of the show saying aren't you afraid of what the clintons will do to you that this on live television

and you know my answer was no obviously but it was amazing it was it was interesting to see the reaction like the days after when I first went back to DC after I made that announcement of endorsement and friends of mine you know politicians in Washington they were like man Tulsi like go with god sister different animal she like if you get into some

sort of verbal altercation with Joe Biden there's no concern for your life like I'm not saying it's real or not well but the rumor is always there's a thing called sliding down yeah joke I know that that's out there that the thought is out there that they will whack you well there's there's I mean the people who are saying hey look you know there are lists that are kept in your political career will be over that was really the message that I got from from people

been around the block a few times and I think the most recent thing that that came up with what Hillary Clinton said about me is not it's not a spat between two people it really just shows the the complete difference and the conflict in our foreign policy views of the what I call the bush Clinton doctrine of interventionism and regime change Wars and warmongering versus what I'm putting forward which is

let's stop the regime change warworld's police policies worked and this new Cold War and arms race put the interests of the American people first always ensuring that we have a strong and capable ready military to defend our nation and our people and honoring that service and sacrifice that that our troops give by only sending them on missions worthy of their sacrifice maximizing diplomacy engagement with other countries in the world through cooperation rather than conflict in always see

war is a last resort so that conflict that you're seeing in the media that's been playing out and again why you're seeing so much of the corporate media and the political machine attacking me is because of this difference is because of this change in foreign policy at I'm bringing about because when it comes right down to it you know whether you're going back to back to the Cold War back to Vietnam War back to the Iraq War overthrowing Saddam Hussein Libya Gaddafi the media has always kind of been this cheerleading voice

for these wars to happen sending a very clear narrative out to the American people and and I think it comes down to it's good business for them it's good ratings I want money I want to talk to you about that but I want to talk to you about what she said to you or about you rather that she said that you are Russian asset that was that was the insinuation right yeah like what was the base of that and how does someone leaves baseless that's what's weird right how does someone who is running for president

and is one of the most prominent politicians in our country how do they get away with something something something that's that's such a huge accusation with no information to back it up

it would be a good question for a normal person but when you look at the power of the Clinton machine when you look at the power of the political establishment which is made up of people who are either you know part of the the Clinton so-called family or who are part of this political establishment that is built on the same Foundation that that she Hillary Clinton laid when

look at the media establishment who have been pushing a lot of the same narrative a lot of the same message then you can see how somebody gets away with calling a sitting member of Congress a candidate for president soldier actively serving the Army National Guard veteran of two Middle East deployments basically a traitor to the country that I love and that I'm willing to lay my life down for and to get away with it without any evidence or base whatsoever not just that but no pushback

you know that was the most bizarre thing no one said hold on you what are you saying she is you're saying she's a Russian asset to find that what do you mean by that do you mean an unwitting Russian asset are you saying that Russia is behind her to try to do something against Bernie or Elizabeth Warren or whatever the consensus pick is like what are you saying there was no questions like that there were no questions like that and and look even if there were witting or unwitting so she's basically either saying that I'm a

to my nation or that I am unwitting asset which means basically you are too stupid and too naive to know that you're being used to further the interests of a Nation other than our own both of which are deeply deeply offensive and again without any base and I think that that's the like this is bigger this is this is really not about me the danger here

of what she did and how the media responded and how almost every single other candidate for president refused to comment refused to denounce what she said burn I think Bernie is an exception Marianne Williamson Andrew Yang couple of them had the courage to say hey look this is ridiculous the fact that that was that was the response is really it has a chilling effect on our free

of speech in this country and it sends a message that whether it's Tulsi gabbard or any other American or any other veteran who dares to stand up and challenge The Establishment challenge this foreign policy narrative call for peace call for an end to these senseless unnecessary regime change Wars then you two can be smeared your character can be smeared do you ever think you could reach a Tipping Point where this happens now

this kind of thing happens where you just say alright I'm done with in this case the Democratic party I mean even after what they did to Bernie in 2016 right that I'm sure that had to be a Tipping Point for a lot of people that said wait a second this is the guy we wanted and you totally hosed him and now we got this this woman over here but we didn't want him how much how many times can this happen before people go oh you know I'm done with this I see this as something that's bigger than just the Democratic party because

as we see this we see how this kind of foreign policy Elite and establishment in washing it has crossed both parties over different times and it's something that I think goes much deeper than that I'm working to bring about reforms in the Democratic party to make it so that it is more democratic more open more transparent you know more inclusive and welcoming of people who you know may agree on some issues disagree on others but one that is actually serving as as

a platform for the people fighting for the people thinking about what's in the best interest of the people that's the kind of change and reform that that I am working to bring about in the party but I think the forces that we're challenging here are actually much bigger than that I mean you got to give a lot of credit to the Republican party because the establishment Republicans the last human being in the world that they wanted as to run for president on the Republican ticket was Donald J Trump right and then

ride hard they tried they tried but once he was in they said that's our president and that's very wise thing to do and you know that's that's where the fear is with a lot of Democrats that someone is going to go independent and that's someone who is popular perhaps you would go independent and suck a lot of the votes away from the Democratic Party People disagree with the direction it's going and then that's how the Republicans would win yeah I'm not I'm not going to do that I've been asked that a ton of time since I don't know Mom

it's ago and every single time I've been asked I've said the answer is no I'm running to be the Democratic nominee I will not run as a third-party candidate and I think that's something else that's that's been interesting and again very transparent if you're paying attention is no matter how many times I answer that question from reporters and and no matter how many times my answer is consistently the same no that was another thing that Hillary Clinton and others continue to point out like oh we think we think she's going to run as a third-party candidate and she's going to be the reason that

when's and I'm not playing ball no and and they're clearly trafficking and things that aren't true again why to raise that question people's minds and to raise that suspicion and to do their best to try to undermine the support that we're getting from people they did they did that interview with you on The View oh you saw that and yeah and they said they said something about Richard Spencer Spencer of the white supremacist and because he said so this is of all the things they bring up they say Richard Spencer

a white supremacist Nazi said he could vote for you that's what they decided to bring up well you is I mean we have to really be thankful that it exists because without that level of discourse on television without being able to watch those Geniuses bent around some of the most important ideas of today I don't know where we would be I think it elevates us as a society as a civilization and it also shows the rest of the world how it's done if you really want to see how the

that is country on Earth deals with political discourse and social issues watch those gals because they got it down bunch of damn Geniuses you're a good Joe thank you good doesn't get any better I think I did not do think they're after yeah bring that out there and you you know once it's out there hey it's out there there's always someone else somewhere that heard that clip Richard spencey so dangerous about and that's what they're running with yeah that's today though today is there's so much data right in there's so much information

nation that all they need is one little samiri thing to toss your way and then people would say oh she's an Assad supporter oh she's at this oh Richard Spencer's favorite candidate that one and then like oh yeah and vote for her I don't want to be kicked out of the team this is what we see on Twitter all the Thai giant issue with the left to the left eats itself from way more than any other party and I don't know what that is about liberals in general that seemed to really truly enjoy calling each other out for not being liberal enough but it's very strange

it's such so obviously destructive and it shows that there's no good leadership at the top of the Heap because of the top of the Heap I would have been hey we're all in this together okay we can disagree on some stuff but if we start attacking each other and makes the other side stronger so let's let's cut the shit publicly let's talk this through and that's pretty much exactly what the Republicans have done for the most part yeah and as Italy and you know from a leadership perspective it is almost always best to look at things in a balanced way and say oh I got this

this part of my team over here that wants to do this extreme thing and the other part of team wants to do the opposite extreme thing the answer is going to be somewhere in the middle why don't I just find a good kind of Solution that's somewhere in the middle and of course the fringes are going to be a little bit mad okay I get that they're the fringes but the bulk of people and what's good for the bulk of people is to make this kind of balance to decision and move forward with it but we don't get that kind of logic inside of these leaders especially when they're running your president yeah

which is you know they run and then as soon as they get in the running for re-election yeah yeah it's it's just it's so frustrating as a citizen sit back and watch us going from the debate format to the way things are handled it's just I don't understand why there haven't been radical improvements there's improvements in imagine getting a computer from 1990 and trying to do your work on it be like this hunk of shit like why doesn't someone to do something better well we have the same exact political

mm that we had before the internet with the Internet it's an it hasn't been updated at all and it doesn't make any sense yeah it's just it's so Bonkers and we sit around and we wait for this magical day in November where we're going to all fix it and we all know that it's not going to get fixed and it's just it's just a weird place to be in where everyone's aware there's an issue and no one's fixing it when I look at this upcoming election I have no idea right right

and you know I had a pretty good idea who is going to win in 2016 just like everyone else I've figured of course you know Hillary Clinton win the hanging ornament I you see you knew I talked about in my comedy special yeah I talk I talked about in triggered my Netflix special for 2016 and like he's that close you guys I go President Trump could be a real thing because it's I was seeing I was going across the country and doing these gigs all over the place and like these people are angry they're angry at liberals they're angry at people that are you know forcing policies they don't

agree with whether it's social policies are economic policies there's so many people have thought the Bernie Sanders going to steal all their money well of course I was seeing it I was like he might win every time someone said oh if you believe in if you believe in border security you're a racist yeah right that hey if you believe in border security you're racist well that makes Obama racist yeah and the book but all those people that heard that like no no I'm not already talking about I'm voting for Trump right exactly

and that is what happened a hundred so what's happen hundred percent yeah it's still playing out right now yeah where people are saying exactly that that if you believe in Secure borders then you must be anti immigrant and you must be you must be a racist and vice versa you know they look at the opposite side make the opposing argument rather than taking that sensible approach and saying hey how about we secure our borders using the most effective and cost-efficient means possible and up

date our immigration laws so that they are Humane and that they actually serve the interests of our country our economy our families education and so on and so forth I mean this is something that yeah Republicans and Democrats if you just sit down and have the conversation say oh yeah well I actually agree with that like you're saying like Okay that's a really good point we maybe we should do it this way maybe you should do it that way but if we can agree on the objective then we can have the meaningful conversation about how to get there rather than continuing what we are doing where we see

we have not seen an update to our immigration laws for decades I think since Reagan actually we have not seen a comprehensive immigration reform which we so desperately need it's because honestly both sides are so busy throwing crap at each other and arrows at each other because it's about partisanship and getting the political win rather than actually solving the problem difference it's easy to cry racism when you look at the difference from the border of Mexico and the border of Canada because border of Canada is like giant Landing

it's like come on through this is woods and then there's a huge gap in the woods that's the bits of the opposite of offense it's like we're going to make it easier for you to cross we're going to show you where the line is have you seen the Border you said border can yeah but it's hilarious you put the economy in Canada is not going to force people to try and get to America pretty nice yeah that's the issue right and the real issue is there's parts of the world you know what whatever you want to use third world whatever phrase you want to use there's Parts the world

quickly where if you're born there you're kind of screwed you know it's really hard to get by it's really hard if you're living in a poor community in Mexico that's run by the cartel what a shit roll of the dice you know you just you got a bad hand of cards that's what it is and until that gets bounced out which traditionally takes centuries right for close-cut nearby countries to sort of for everything to even out especially when the politics are so different between Mexico and the United States and

Mexico is just insanely corrupt sorry Mexico but I mean off the I mean you saw what happened with Chapo son he gets arrested by the Mexican military and then the cartels forced them to release them and then I got I can't take them back sorry yeah we'll figure this out later yeah like and and that's something that you know that's the kind of of change and the routing out of corruption reforms that can only happen organically yes within Mexico could you imagine Jocko as a military man

situation like that happened in the United States where the some cartel forces the United States military to release a prisoner no no you imagine no do you imagine the backlash there are so many rednecks that would just be just to spending all day filling cartridges I mean the militia will rise up God yeah you want to find out what the sacraments really for if that ever took place in this country if there was ever a situation

situations country we felt like we were really overrun by a cartel where they're taking over cities like what's going on in Mexico it would be you would understand how rapidly independent this country really is yeah yes yeah and even you know when you talk about people that are living down in Mexico I wanted to come here it's like all you knew you feel for them because they got a bad deal but a lot of the people that are trying to come here are MS-13 gangsters looking to come up here and whatever do what they're going to do in America where there's even more money to be made off of illegal

yeah if you could throw the Wonder Woman's lasso of Truth around them and find out what they're really all about that would be great that would be awesome I can't really do that if you just pour you want to make it hey come on in your hard worker excellent so we're my grandparents come on in you know but it's just the idea that we should all have open borders and everybody should be able to go anywhere like e ya boy there's a lot lot of people that you don't want coming here and it probably should be a good idea to check people for criminal history and violent pasts and you know the see if you're a member of the cartel for

we sneak into Mexico there are just thousands you know I think there there are practical limitations even if you said okay well you know we're gonna We want to welcome anybody and everybody in the world who is suffering and who is in need of help or a better life to come to United States it's just not realistic we don't have the resources as a country to be able to do that when you know look here in La I was on Skid Row a couple couple of about a month

two ago coming visiting their the homeless crisis in Hawaii is is the worst per capita of any state in the country it's something that's affecting both Urban cities and Rural communities across the country we have you know what almost 80 million people who are uninsured and underinsured in this country who can't get the medicine they need and who are literally driving their kid to Mexico to buy insulin because they have diabetes and they can't afford to get the medicine here at home we got a lot of issues and a lot of challenges that we've got to deal with and my view is

we've got to be pragmatic and practical and how we are seeing the situation looking at what our objective is and how does that best serve the people of this country and then figure out okay what's the best way for us to get there and I think that's what's unfortunately lost in this hyper partisan political atmosphere whether you're talking about what's going on in Washington and the meteor what's going on in Twitter where you have these extremes you have this rush to judgment when people aren't taking the time both to sit down and

try to understand the problem like you know this this goes back to like military decision making process 101 first you got to understand the problem right you're trying to solve come up with what's the objective make sure it's achievable and then build your plan and then execute that is doesn't happen these days because it's more about calling the other guys names or you know having this race on this happens all the time there's like something happens in the news

for the political candidates running for president it's who can get their tweet out the fastest on the issue we saw this recently with the situation in Syria with the Kurds and who can get the Tweet out the FAFSA people are asking me like hey what do you have to say what you have to say and like I'm trying to understand the situation first I'm actually trying to understand what happened and why we are in the situation that we're in once I do that I'll let you know what I think and that was another one of those end-of-the-world scenarios that unfolded

you know we Trump pull the troops out of out of that area and it was like oh the world's going to end and look there were some bad stuff that happened I get it some ices folks as folks some Isis terrorists murderers escaped I got that some some Kurds were killed like some bad stuff happened but it wasn't the end of the world and and one thing you know I was my second deployment to Iraq we were we started doing counterinsurgency

operations instead of counter-terrorist operation so we we changed our strategy and as we did this we were we were starting to kill a decent amount of bad guys about of these insurgents so a few weeks go by and I got a message from up my chain of command and they're like hey Jocko we get that you're doing these missions but right now we're not seeing any changes in the metrics as far as enemy attacks that are happening happening right and

luckily I had read the counterinsurgency manual that was written by General Petraeus and and and I part of that explains that a the average counterinsurgency takes seven years to work itself out right and so I said hey you know boss the average counterinsurgency takes seven years to to flush itself out it's only been three weeks can I get some more some more time here to work through this and he's like okay yeah you know make sense but my point is it's the same thing here we think that some news event

that we can fully understand a news event within one hour of it happening we don't have any understanding we you need to let these things develop and and see where they actual long-term effects are we can't be snapping judgments and making radical decisions or split decisions when we have to actually assess what is really going on and so that the press for sure is like Snap decision snap decisions that position and you can see it's comical to flip back and forth between the two due to the left-wing media the right-wing media and one

it's a great decision ever another one's the most horrible things ever happened and there you go and you know no one can even make an assessment of what just happened because it only happened 14 minutes ago how about we see where it plays out it's about being first rather than actually being accurate and presenting the American people with here's what has gone on you can form your own opinion you can form your own conclusion but here's the course of events that took place ABCD and E and that's that's exactly what we're missing in most of the time I think it's what we're talking about

and earlier I think we're poisoned by this desired have our information fed to us very quickly and that the fact that there's so much information coming at us we don't have enough time to sit back and read a manual on how long it takes counterinsurgency efforts to be fruit fruition to reach fruition the fact that that's hitting you in the military that you would think that the most pragmatic the most disciplined people that understand the long game that are playing 3D chess those are the people that you would want telling people like you what you can and can't do

the fact that that kind of thinking is even filtering down to special ops groups is crazy well what's nice is we do have decentralized command inside the military so when I'm telling my boss this what's going on my boss isn't like shut up and do what I told you to do my boss like okay makes sense explain it to me okay got it yeah that makes sense cool move forward that's that's a very positive thing in the military one thinks that the military is this rigid structured way where you just obey the chain of command you don't you don't Veer from that at all but if my boss tells me to do something that doesn't make any sense

- hey boss this actually is a bad plan we should do it a different way and if I have a good boss my boss says okay I didn't see that angle and that's another thing that you know when told he's talking about how politicians we come up with a plan and we start executing the plan guess what once you start executing a plan some other things are going to come to come to light right and you as a leader have to say hey you know what we started executing this it's going pretty good but I didn't foresee this happening I'm making an adjustment here it is here's what we're going to do and I'm going to wait for that feedback to come to me the

his people are so insecure or slash their egos so big that they won't they'll dispatch I just going to stick with the same plan no matter everyone else is dumb no do you still need to see it through it's like no actually we need to make some changes because they you know they are afraid of saying hey my initial assessment might have been inaccurate or wrong and and I think that that also just points the bigger point for the political leadership the civilian leadership that sets the policy that the military executes is so often lacks that foresight and that that

planning of actually looking okay if we pursue course of action a you know we call here will be the second third fourth order of effects right here's how you know the enemy or the opponent is likely to react or here's how other actors are likely to react to our action so we can try to anticipate that and then we can okay this is how we would respond this is how they're likely to respond actually go through this so that we don't end up in the situation that we too often find ourselves in where you're like alright here's the here's the mission guys go

and then you whether it's a week or a month or a year like hey how the hell do we find ourselves here it's like you failed As Leaders the leaders of our country failed to ask those questions about you know what happens what happens next you know after we go in and topple Saddam Hussein and we completely obliterate the entire Rocky military what actually happens next what will be the consequences to this what will be the cost to our troops our military what will be the cost to the Iraqi people what will be the cost to American taxpayers is the

is the objective we know what the objective is is it achievable what's our end State and exit strategy when you look back and I've just I've seen this throughout my seven years in Congress sitting on the Foreign Affairs committee sitting on the armed services committee where we're questioning and providing oversight over the Department of Defense and Department of State asking leaders these questions and when were not given answers or given ambiguous answers or things like you know I asked secretary Mattis once in a hearing

about how Al Qaeda has gotten so strong in Syria to where I mean right now they control an entire city the entire city of idlib is controlled by Al-Qaeda and I asked him at that time I said why aren't we going after Al Qaeda in Syria in a very serious and concerted way and his answer was well it's complicated

it's complicated and it's it it's frustrating to say the least but I think it's been a very transparent it's been it's been a very clear window into the lack of foresight and good judgment and just the ability to look at these challenges in situations with that that basic understanding in a non-emotional way and understand what's the objective cost and consequences

before we launch this action I want to talk about something you brought up briefly earlier about the media being sort of cheerleaders yeah for a lot of these wars or a lot of these military actions what do you think that that happens because this ensures that they get access to think it happens because conflict is good for their business do you think it happens because if they don't act as cheerleaders they don't get access to the leaders and to the the important politicians and military leaders I mean I I think that the underlying

underlying driver is that conflict is good for Ratings that's crazy that that is their decision how to cover things and what it's been it's the if the war machine you know that that they're a part of and that they're driving that they are a driving force for you know I think that yeah they're they're you know they're there have been reports I think over time I think you had Matt Taibbi here recently where you've got you know journalists who are

are more or even you know papers who are more interested in covering for their you know CIA relationships rather than actually bringing forward a story that the America the truth you know that the American people deserve to hear so you know I think there are other factors there that drive the media really playing a heavily influential and dangerous force in continuing to push this this

war mongering narrative that that is you know I mean it's costly in an immeasurable in a measurable way well the coverage is so influential and that influence it changes the way people accept or don't accept things that are happening internationally you know when there's something I mean what was the do you remember when I was there was a time when Obama had talked about attacking Syria yes doing something and listen 2013 the entire country was like fuck you like it was it was huge

my first year in Congress I mean it was one of the biggest like rejections of an idea Global or a nationally that I've ever seen and then he kind of backed off it you know I was like okay I think I think that was one of the most Brave decisions that he made to back off from it where he actually you know he didn't take that position in that example of just kind of being the obstinate stubborn like nope here's what I said and he drew this red line I'm not going to go back on

no matter what no he did I think he listened to the American people and ultimately he chose diplomacy well this is an area where people have been critical of you is your position on Syria and the fact that you had met with Assad and this is something that gets brought up and again it gets brought up in these little sound bite things that are seeking to Define you without any Nuance or any complexity to try to let light just let this little tiny sentence or to Define your position then they can repeat that to other people

really knowing what they're talking about yeah what is your position on Syria and Assad and how did all this conflict and all this weirdness with you in the subject begin I think I think it it goes back to again the the opposition that comes towards me from the the political establishment you know the corporate media in the military industrial complex because of the the leadership and the

the voice that I've been bringing calling for an end to regime change Wars whether we were talking about the one in Iraq Libya and in in Syria look my choice my choice will always be towards diplomacy because if we lack the courage to meet with both adversaries and friends in the pursuit of our own National Security and peace the only alternative is war

period that's the way it is so I will always choose to maximize all diplomatic means and measures and talks and negotiations to further our interests of peace and National Security recognizing that war should always be the last resort if necessary now is this it's a very difficult for people to understand that these things are insanely messy and you saying that you would

ways lean towards diplomacy does not mean you support dictators not but that's exactly the way they frame it yeah but if you look at the famous Hillary Clinton speech after Qaddafi was killed we came we saw he died and she was laughing Libya is a failed State now they have they have slaves that they're auctioning off on YouTube and you could watch slave auctions that someone filmed with their camera on their phone and they upload it to YouTube Libya's gone I mean it's a

a chaotic place right now yeah it wasn't good when Qaddafi was running Libya but it wasn't as bad as it is now so the idea that supporting Qaddafi is supporting a dictatorship and you're a monster for supporting him like maybe not because it's kind of worse now because the world is a very messy place and it's not even a matter of quote-unquote supporting it's just saying hey we're not going to come in and overthrow you and government I think that's that's the things that that's the issue here and

the contradiction when people are criticizing me for exercising diplomacy and calling for an end to the regime change war that we've been waging Syria since 2011 but then they'll say oh well of course I was against overthrowing Saddam Hussein in Iraq right there there's no intellectual there's no consistency there and I think the issue with Libya that that so often gets overlooked is again we look at what what will the consequences be

be of these regime change words you said I mean Libya is a completely failed stayed there are more terrorist organizations and strongholds in Libya now than there ever were before when Gaddafi was there the people of Libya are suffering far more now than they were before we also see this other effect on our own National Security where our our regime change War policy has undermined our ability to negotiate with Kim Jong Hoon in North Korea towards

nuclearization you have the leaders of North Korea of time and time again and said hey look we're developing nuclear weapons as the only deterrent that will work against the United States coming in and overthrowing our government said it over and over and over again and they pointed to examples like Libya saying that well you guys are saying you want to come in and go she ate with us to get rid of our nuclear weapons you told Gaddafi the same things at a Gaddafi get rid of your nuclear weapons program will leave you alone

own and then you went in and overthrow Gaddafi why will this be any different with us and then you've got John Bolton as then the National Security director for for Trump going on television or giving speeches saying yeah you know we're going to approach North Korea with the Libya model he said that and so when we wonder like hey why aren't these and I think I'm I think Trump was right and I've said it publicly Trump is right to have direct negotiations with Kim Jong on but he hasn't gotten anywhere and you've got to look at why

and this is one of the reasons why continuing to hey no we're not going to overthrow you and your government Kim Jong but on the other hand you're continuing the policies that directly undermine your ability to to make that agreement that that'll be that'll that'll hold and that'll stay and as a result now you know we have North Korea that that's nuclear weapons program is continuing to escalate their capabilities are continuing to grow and it poses

a threat not only to you know my folks in Hawaii the people of Hawaii given our proximity to North Korea but their capabilities now they're extending across the West Coast their strength extending across the country posing a very direct existential threat to our country and to our people so you see how that decision that was made about Libya these decisions that are ongoing see they pulling out of the Iran nuclear agreement North Korea says hey you guys made a green with them you got a different president elected tore up that agreement

why should we think that's going to be any different with us so these policy decisions that are being made are very directly connected in in having the effect ultimately of undermining our national security and making the American people less safe I'll tell you I think a couple things come up and just kind of fun what you're what you're saying and this is kind of my perspective on it when you know when we talk about hey when you go in somewhere you've got to know what the end state is you got to know what you're you

you got to know where you're going and when you're going to leave got have an exit strategy what's really hard about that is we don't necessarily know and war is so in predict unpredictable that you may you know there's there's a chance that you went and killed Qaddafi and then all of a sudden some benevolent person steps up and all of a sudden you've got this flourishing democracy okay with a chance to that know very small but you don't know that it's going to go into this this completely failed State you have high hopes maybe your Intel people are saying you this it's like when we you know when we

the Bay of Pigs all the Cubans in America were like yep as soon as you guys hit the beaches all the Cubans are going to be on our side is going to be good to go all the Cubans that supported America were in America we showed up there and they were like what are you doing no this is our country so we don't necessarily know where we're going to go which means you've got to have once again like the open mind to say oh this isn't going the way we thought it was going to go how we going to adjust right now to prevent this from getting worse which means what you really have to do is prior to intervening in

in other countries you have to assess what sacrifices you are willing to make to to get the result that is positive and it's and those those could be massive you know I always talk about if you're going to go to war you've got to have the will and that will comes in two forms number one is the will to kill because when you go to war you are going to be killing people you're going to be killing the enemy and you're going to be killing civilians and that's not what we're trying to do and believe me the US Military

through Great Lengths to prevent that from happening but it is going to happen it's War so you have to be willing to kill you have to be willing to have that happen and you have to be willing to die because when you go to war there's going to be American kids that are not going to come home and so you have to have those two Wills that's before you go in so you can't look at it and say well you know we can go into Libya we can move this guy and probably it'll turn out okay so we don't have to worry about what the sacrifices are going to be another thing to think about when

we went to war we went to World War II World War One those kids 18 years old 17 years old those kids went to war until the war was over they went on deployment like now you know in the in the Navy in the Marine Corps to six seven month deployment in the Army sometimes it's a 14-month appointment and then they're going to rotate back to the states in World War II was like oh cool yeah we're at War you'll be home when it's over so five years four years

if that was our attitude going into the war this is so important to us that Johnny is going to get on a ship and he's going to sail to the Pacific and if he comes home it's going to be in three years four years five years that's what we're talking about that's the level of commitment we have so when we start looking at going into other countries we need to start thinking okay what level of commitment do we really have to make this successful and and like even when I look at Iraq you know I was in Iraq and fought in Iraq from a granular

perspective being on the Ground Battle of ramadi 2006 the citizens of ramadi the normal citizens of ramadi were Overjoyed that we were there and it was like we were we were angels to go there and help them get rid of these heinous Al-Qaeda insurgence which eventually came became Isis

unfortunately you know we kind of we did a great job ramadi was the model of counterinsurgency for about 7 years and it was less violent than many cities in America and I had great pride and at least understood the sacrifice is my friends that were killed my friends that never came home my friends that won't get to have kids right they did all that they gave all that and I was able to look around and say you know what these folks in this

foreign country they're going to have an opportunity for freedom

and unfortunately because of politics and whatever we said okay you know what we're not staying there we're going to leave as soon as we left everybody that had been on the ground in Iraq was like hmm this is probably not a good idea this is probably not a good idea to bail out right now we don't need to leave a massive Force there but you know if we leave a few you know we leave a couple brigades worth of men then oh we'll probably be able to handle any problems at that happened well we didn't we left completely and and those those insurgents that were there they

like little Embers and they started to they started to get fired up again and then the next thing you know you had Isis and by the way Isis marched back into ramadi and they the reports we got from people on the ground that we knew was that Isis came in and anyone that had worked with Coalition forces and they level they would murder the whole family has about 500 families that were completely murdered so when we talk about these things we have to be very sure about what we're going to do we have to

recognize that we can't predict everything cuz we can't I don't care how good you are and care how many analysis you put on something when you start throwing human nature into a leadership vacuum all these things are going to break out and it's going to it can go very very bad it can go well too but it can go very very bad and so what are we willing to sacrifice what are we willing to spend how many of our brothers and sisters in uniform are we willing to sacrifice to make this happen and how does it help our national security I believe right now had we stayed there Iraq would be a

strong positive place right now if we had kind of completed the mission the way that we should have again when we go back and we say okay well what what what countries is it worth going into you where we going to go away how do we draw that line how do we make that decision for me this is this is what we do as Leaders what we do as Leaders we look at a situation and and sometimes you know you got to ask yourself do we have a moral obligation to go somewhere if there's a genocide happening if

there's another Rwanda happening where 800,000 Tutsis are killed in a hundred days with machetes if that's going on do we have a moral obligation to try and do something help that hey that's a decision you have to me that's a hard decision to make as leader because guess what you're going to lose 30 40 a hundred Americans that are going in there and try and shut this thing down but that's the that's the type of thing we need to think about and that's why as a leader you want to have an open mind you want to have your ego

pletely out of it because it's real easy to say oh this is where America this is what we do with this is we're going to win it's like no actually we made a bad decision and it we're actually leaving right now because we think the expenditure from here on out is going to be too hot unfortunately I think in Iraq we paid The Upfront expenditure we had invested lives and treasure to try and get that place stabilized we've done a decent job we were almost there and we left early and all of a sudden we look around to go but that's why these things are important to to

to think about thoroughly as Tulsi said before you go we don't know what's going to happen and you know if you're going to get in a street fight Joe like you look as capable as you are as capable as I am at street fighting that's great there is that 10 percent chance that that guy pulls out a knife and sticks in your neck it are you willing to sacrifice that now if the guys doing something to him innocent person and you go you know what I got to take that risk right now I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna get this thing handled those are

decisions to make and we have to think through them

if there was very well said if there was one thing when I brought you two together that I thought that you might disagree on it would be this stance on non-interventionist foreign policy and I don't know if that's even the right word disagree but I think there's nuances to these decisions and these things you don't I think you would agree with that and Rwanda what you talked about is a great example do you have a moral responsibility to go in when you see some atrocities being committed I mean that's one thing that people either Pro or con

honours which is the United States are we the police force of the world are we the moral High Ground yeah II don't just just listening to joke I think that I don't think that that we actually disagree very much you tell me if I'm wrong but I think there are important distinctions to be made you know my opposition to regime change Wars should not be mistaken for isolationism nor should it be mistaken for

anything other than what it is let's stop fighting regime change Wars that are so often waged in the guise of humanitarianism but they are pushed forward for other reasons for their political reasons or corporate reasons or whatever and they try to get the sympathy of the American people and they use the same words you know the this guy is a monster this is this when you actually peel back the layers there are ulterior motives in place that set the pretext to use our military to go and

regime in another country or topple a dictator that ultimately ends up more often than not resulting in in the lives of the suffereth more suffering for the people in the countries where supposedly trying to go and help however I've been very strong on this we're talking about Al Qaeda Isis these other jihadist terrorists who are a threat to our national security we need to stay strong in defeating that threat that

it is our function as Warriors as service members in the military is to go and protect and defend the American people and to take out those who seek to do us harm in the case of a genocide like Rwanda where there is killing of people at a massive scale we look to see hey is there something that we can do to help end this genocide can we work with other countries can we bring together a coalition that can effectively stop this genocide

the answer to that is yes then we should do so but the problem that we've seen a lot more recently is you'll see the word genocide being used very Loosely to as an excuse to go and say hey well you know go and topple this dictator who is inflicting a genocide on their own people without it actually meeting the criteria of a genocide

when really there's a conflict within the within the country whether it be based on politics or power or whatever that's a very different thing than this then like what we saw in Rwanda for example so as you see I agree I think I think before we go in and make this decision to take military action we've really got to look very carefully at what is the situation where is the information that we're coming from is it coming from people who are pushing their own narrative for their own

where they're not really caring about the interest of the people in these countries or the interests of the American people and our troops they got their own thing going on we've got to be able to know that and understand that and approach this decision not based on a knee-jerk emotional reaction and Jocko would you were talking about earlier is so important here that when you are on one side and the other side is doing something no matter what you never said well that makes sense you hate that other

God this is a perfect example when Trump wanted to pull people out of Syria people on the left we're saying no people on the left were supporting military action in Syria and I was like this is this is Bonkers the upside down it's weird yes and it's because they despise that they completely hate Trump yeah and I mean I know you got friends that hate Trump more than anything in the world I got friends that hate Trump more than anything in the world and and it doesn't matter

does they have such a passionate hatred for him that he could he could just you know cure cancer and people would say well he did it for his own good I have friends that hate him and I have friends at like him and I friends that love them and that's what's hilarious to me I whenever he does something I love to call the friends who hate him and just have them scream and yell and rant about it and go why so worked up man this is it like this quid pro croak thing I've never heard that goddamn expression more in my entire life

I'm like who the hell ever thought that quid pro quo would be like a gigantic talking point on every single major new news station every newspaper it's a weird time conflict wise and in terms of just people's inability to just look at things with nuance and look at the complexity of these conversations and just say you're on team Trump or you're not you're with us or you're against us your your pro this or your anti-democracy you know you talk about how Trump's kind of the

guy for the assholes like the apples on Fox News and at the other end of the spectrum is people that do that they just can't believe it insults their very being that this guy is the present United States yeah it insults their very being and they're so offended by it that it doesn't matter what he does is true but then there's so many people that are like you know what at least I at least I'm not getting robbed of my taxes

at least on that getting called a bigot because I don't want six foot six men who transitioned to being a woman last week to play against my daughter in a basketball game you know what I'm saying I mean oh yeah this is the world we're living in where people like I'm going with Trump he's talking looking Kanye West is in the White House not racist and this is where we're living now it's this this weird society that we have today where we're there's so much coming at us and you can't pay attention to all of us and between all the

culture nonsense and the the fucking ice caps are melting the environment the oceans on fire everyone's scared of everything yeah and then on top of that there's all this political stuff that's going on you don't have time to pay attention to all of it if you tell me you're a breast of all of it I'll tell you're a liar there's no way let me say something else as well so I have a consulting company and I go around the country and I talked to every level in the chain of command including the Frontline troops guys that work construction guys that work gas oil guys

our out do lineman that our output you know Ed manufacturing everything those people there they're met most of them they're not out on The Fringe somewhere you know they're thinking about they're not thinking about what Trump seems are actually thinking about you know how they're going to if they're going to get to take a couple days off over there Labor Day weekend they're getting thing about have the did they save enough money they can get a new truck that's what they're concerned about they're not thinking about this they're trying to live their normal lives and you know what I was on been Shapiro's program and you'll he just came at me

it's so the all this divisiveness and I said well you live and be that guy lives at Ground Zero for political just detonation right I said that's not normal life you're not it's not normal for everyone else been like yeah I get it that's what it's like for you but that's not what it's like for everyone else so even as the country seems so divided you got to remember the people that we hear that are so divisive are the loud Mouse on either end yes and most people aren't getting in Twitter

fights about who whatever they're not they're out trying to make a living yeah and you know what something that you and I think can relate to is it a lot of these people don't have anything that brings together and I think they should all join a Jiu-Jitsu J hundred percent in politics and all that stuff aside the people that is weird as it seems the people that choke you and you choke and you get arm barred by those are your brothers and sisters and you realize like that the way we look at Politics the way we look at decisions and you know what

you can agree or disagree on though the direction of the country there's a lack of community there's a real lack of understanding that we're supposed to be as the United States of America we're supposed to be a giant Community we're supposed to be a family and this this is not how people are viewing it now we're viewing it like there's this gigantic Battle Ground that the world is in an uprising right now and I don't necessarily think that's true you know what else to is and I hear you say this time sometimes and I get what you're saying but you know you'll say hey this

this person's in a cubicle and they hate their job and they hate their life and that's like of course most people aren't like that I get it that there's some people that end up in jobs that they don't want to do and I certainly couldn't see Joe Rogan sitting in a cubicle or on a manufacturing line but like I got a factory up in Maine these people that are up there working they love it they're Americans that love hard work and they're building an American product and it's like oh okay this is what I do they're in they'll stay extra time they'll do whatever they can they love it and working for you though

they're excited yeah but they're still working they're still working nine hours 10 hours 12 hours you know working on it on it in a factory that's what they're doing and they love it and you know what they want they want to have a good economy they don't want the government to also them it's like okay that's what that's what they want so it's weird how the social media that we complain about is just a it's an amplification of the extremes that's what it is right and most people aren't sitting there arguing about what Trump did or what Hillary Clinton did it's a gigantic

you know a small giant a hugely small percentage of the population that is doing all the discourse on Twitter it's really time to 2% and if you look at other there's there's few people that are follow that I don't follow I just haven't bookmark just because they're just bananas and I'll go to their page and just look and they're literally arguing with people about politics or whatever gender studies and they're doing it 12 hours a day yeah they're just add it there at their just frothing at the mouth sweating Palms just phone slipping out of your hand banging away with their thumb and they're doing

it all day do you think that well I think that that has something to do with the fact that they're living some kind of decent life I mean as far as they have food they have they have an iPhone there's no wolves their streets in the streets and they're not worried about it yeah and that's why when we talk about worldwide problems

what I think is what you do the best possible thing that we can do in this country to help all these problems every single problem that we've talked about build a strong economy yes build a strong global economy that's the best thing you can do Hunter build a business make people have a little bit more money yes that's how you get it done and that's why you know like from my perspective you don't you get involved in the business you start a business you move dude you help people you build a product that people want you build a business

help the economy and that is what equalizes the world more than anything else well that's also argument for team Trump mean that's Trump's argument is what he's doing is he's boosting a business in the United States and whether or not you love him or hate him what he's doing is having a positive net effect on the global economy or particular United States economy and that's going to make us stronger I mean this is whether you love them or hate them you got to look at that objectively and go okay well there is there any Merit to what he's saying well I don't understand economics I don't I just trust me

people that study I don't have the time but they're saying yes in some ways he's doing things that benefit business I think that I think that the the trouble with the approach that Trump has taken you know he obviously he's got his stick and he's got the things that he's got to talking points the things that he says but he is continuing this mentality when we look at like the trade war with China and you know the trade conflict that he started with Canada and now with different year

in countries it is it's the zero-sum mentality that in order for us and our economy and our people to win then the people or the economies of these other countries have to suffer and that's where I agree with what you just said Jocko about you know building a strong helping grow a strong global economy gosh shared Prosperity I mean you look at the opportunity that would provide for peace and less conflict rather than what we're seeing it and it's is playing

out in real-time with China right now where you see this trade war that is escalating a tariff or that's escalating I have met with farmers in Iowa who are hurting tremendously because of this trade and tariff or far manufacturers small business owners and the danger of this continuing to grow and continuing to escalate an economic War can very easily turn into a hot war and we're again we're talking

about a nuclear-armed country where these ever escalating tensions push us closer and closer to the brink of of nuclear catastrophe something nuclear strategist are saying that we are we are closer to now than at least in a generation I think this is where the foreign policy that I'm that I'm putting forward to the American people that I will lead with is one that is focused on on engaging with other countries being that Force for good focusing on cooperation rather than conflict in every respect

pecked being able to work out yeah we do have trade differences with China there's no question about that but being able to do so in a way that is not further pushing us closer and closer to the brink of a hot war and potentially disastrous can you get into that like what is the trade what is the issue with China like what what is Trump feels like we don't have a fair deal right that's what he's saying I dated I think they're I think his diagnosis I think is correct I think that's widely accepted there

you know ongoing trade imbalance with China and some of the issues with with IP theft I think those are the top two that that come to the Forefront the problem is not with the diagnosis of the issue it is how he's going about it in a very you know shoot-from-the-hip kind of way I mean he's like almost conducting his negotiations via Twitter he's got negotiators who are sitting across in the Chinese and hey okay we're getting closer to a deal we're going to work this out then all of a sudden something goes out

Twitter Like Whoa man like the whole thing just changed which you know it's may be funny when Trump is putting out something with Trump Tower in Greenland but when there are such real consequences to the day-to-day lives of the American people and when we're pushing us closer and closer to the brink of a nuclear catastrophe escalating these tensions with countries like China and with Russia this is I mean it's serious the stakes are very high and and so

oh this is this is more about how Trump is doing this in such an irresponsible way that's creating destabilization and uncertainty both with our economy and also in our relationships with other countries it's everything that made him famous as a businessman all the brashness all the shooting from the hip yes the idea that everybody thought he was going to change when he got in the White House is hilarious the guys 7300 actually you can laugh at me then because I thought well he got elected I was like okay well this is going to be interesting to see him you know kind of become presidential and

and then like whatever one day until you send out a tweet about somebody else like Rosie O'Donnell's a pig and he's yeah exactly crazy butbut he's but what that means is he's unpredictable right and so he's the guy in the bar that you look at you like oh I'm just gonna give that guy a little extra cleaners because he looks like he's crazy right so I think that might be what he either thinks he's doing yeah or or not but here's the interesting thing about this okay II don't want to quote numbers on these things because I'm not sure what they are right now but I got a factory been made we make clothes we make

jeans we make Jiu-Jitsu geese all right all made in America from the cotton it's grown in America it's woven we weave it in our Factory we're doing everything here now there's things like labor labor is more expensive in America because we pay our workers because they're awesome and and so it costs a little bit more to build the product if you have a Chinese company that can make a Jiu-Jitsu ghee and they have they're paying their workers a dollar a day literally and then they can ship that get over here well then they can beat us

the price their quality is not as good but they can beat us on a price and someone goes okay well I can pay you know 70 bucks for this Chinese ski or a hundred bucks for this American geek okay I'm gonna buy the Chinese 170 bucks so and this actually this part happened to get the details I can't quite remember but they said hey we're not going to put a tariff on Dee's coming into America because they can't be made here because they can't be made here and guess what specific to get specific wow it was like okay can't be made

I can't be made here and it was actually pretty true when was this I don't know I don't know again I'm stepping out on the ledge I got to have my buddy Pete come on this podcast for remain here forever though no they haven't been in they made in Pakistan and China and there was one company that was making down in Brazil

but we said no actually they can be made here and we're making them here and they put a 7 percent tariff on Geese from overseas well so now that kind of equalizes the price are just a little bit more expensive but it's made in America it's higher quality so people say okay well by him here are you the only company in America than any company in America that is making it easy so I'm thinking we are American companies they're buying them over 600% yep wow I didn't know that yep yep and what psyche company just so everyone knows it's called its origin origin Main.com and board

main Dodge Main.com and maie any yep mean the state was talking my business partner and I was like I was in the airport and I go hey man how many people do you know that train Jiu-Jitsu and he's like oh no you know like 30 I go how many people do you know that that have a pair of jeans and he said everybody and I said why don't we make jeans yeah yeah yeah it's a good call because everybody has jeez I could I was in the airport I'm looking around and you know it was whatever 98 people out of a hundred our

wearing jeans because we're Americans and is there anything more American to make an American company then genes do you make jeans with stretch in them yep yeah yeah yeah that is the important that every food that's every truly this like you know otherwise you know making out of coal I didn't know I didn't know that was your company I think one of the first podcast I listened to you from your show at the very end you and I go Charles were talking about origin you're like I'm wearing origin jeans and this and that about Origins like

they must be pretty good sponsors said what is that boot company that you're involved with morejon we're making boost swing as well and this is the this is the awesome thing about this is you're from New England well in that part of in Maine used to be like the textile and clothing capital of the love America for sure they made boots they made bass they made they made all these things best boots best shoes they made all these textiles up in Maine and when the trade War started it all went away

it all went away in the 70s and the 80s and they literally took those machines and ship them overseas to India and Pakistan and then was my buddy Pete there was one loom you know what illumise yeah it's this big thing that's got like 8 billion parts to it he wanted to get a loom because he realized that the only way you could get material for Agee was to weave it yourself otherwise you had to buy it from China or Pakistan so he goes up to Lewiston Maine there's a five hundred thousand square foot abandoned Factory it has one lumen

Rusty hasn't been used in 30 years and he fight he found his old timer that used to work on the Looms him and his buddies they went and drag this thing out of this Factory they brought it into this little Factory that he had built himself out in the middle of the woods and started taking apart this Loom and reassembling it and started weaving weaving material and making geese now that was five years ago we started working together we merged together three years ago he had whatever

for employees back there we have 60 now we're making stuff all the time but this is when I talk about building the economy that's what I'm talking about well and so these areas up in New England up in Maine that used to be the so productive well there's not there wasn't jobs up there and now it's like oh yeah we got we got jobs and we're going to continue to build that company and just bring manufacturing back to America so these are things that I think help when I talk about the global economy you know who's going to want American jeans made it

region in Maine you know who's gonna want those people in China people in Japan they're gonna want these jeans because there there's they've got soul man they got soul they're real it's one of the best commercial I've ever heard listen man that's where I Muhammad Ali knocked out Sonny Liston yeah there you go man yeah that's a that's a great place to start a company like that that's amazing I think I think that's or as we as we talk about overall trade policy and and where we've gone wrong you saying you know what happened back in the 70s and 80s you saw how you know these

these trait these massive trade deals that were put in place really the people who benefited most from them were the multinational corporation operations you are exporting these jobs and it was this those mom and pop those small business owners and manufacturers who suffered the most and that's where I think was we look at you know trade negotiations with China as you look at some of these trade deals with countries like India and others that's where we've got to get back to you rather than just making sure the largest corporations have a seat at the trade negotiations tables we've

to have those small business voices those small manufacturers and make sure that our policy is actually helping Empower and strengthen the backbone of our economy that has been before and that we need to bring it back to that helps improve the quality of life for the people who are working you know working in main manufacturing your jeans and your Giza and this is and having such great pride in doing so knowing like hey man yeah this is made in my I've seen your packaging says we the

people like what more powerful words are there they're the first words of our constitution for a reason that is what should be at the Forefront of our our policies of across across the board in all these different issues if the first interest is not we the people as it has been for so long then we see what goes wrong and then the consequence we the people suffer so the what's going on right now the consequences of this issue

trade war with China where it's really hitting you were saying is there's people in America that are they're selling things to China yeah well I give you an one and I mean we've heard a lot from like corn and soybean farmers in Iowa that that's a story that's been in the news a lot we were at a farmers market and I think I was in Des Moines recently and we're kind of walking through and picking up some food and veggies and stuff like that we stopped at like an an apple orchard that had a whole table with all these different beautiful amazing

in Apple's start talking to the guy he and his wife were on this apple orchard and he said you know the trade and tariff war with China has hit us really hard said wow that's surprising to me tell me more and he talked about how I said you sell do you export your apples to China and he said no not at all we sell our apples in Iowa and in the Midwest and that's it local and Regional customers what happened was the apple farms in Washington State

calling honeycrisp apples that they do export to China when this trade and tariff War started they couldn't anymore that market was completely blocked off to them and so what they started doing was chip in their apples to the Midwest at a fraction of the price that the local Iowa Apple farmer was able to charge to his clients whether their restaurants or supermarkets or whatever and he lost tens of thousands of dollars just over the last year as a result and this year he said is

not looking very good as well as long as this thing continues it's going to it's going to have a disproportionate negative impact on on his family farm essentially so you know there there are the obvious kind of headline-grabbing impacts but then you look at the downstream you look at you know a friend of mine has a small business that he does do business with China has things that are made in China and this level of uncertainty he doesn't know like how far ahead he can plan to purchase how much should

plan to purchase or things going to get better so you should just do a little bit now and then weight or just the level of uncertainty and destabilization it's created I think has been the most negative impact on people here at home there's some legitimate concerns to the right like Huawei is a weird one that one I'm kind of at a legitimate concern yeah for sure yeah I'm kind of a tech dork and I love looking at one of the things that China does particularly well particularly Huawei is

innovation with cell phone technology mean they make the most spectacular cameras they are like they were way ahead of the curve on a lot of different features and they continue to do that and there were selling them in America up to a point and then that cut off and it cut off with the first time I've ever heard sick National Security concerns because of a cell phone company and they just makes you go whoa whoa whoa is this real and it's real cloudy like you talk to people on the tech side and they said this doesn't make any sense but then you talk to people on the intelligence side and

said this it makes all the sense in the world like this is a Shifty company that's inexorably tied to the Chinese government there's no difference between the government and this company they are moving they have a long game and this this long game is provide backdoor access so that the data can be stolen have that built into systems and they've caught them doing this before so they're like we this is you got a finger in the dam here and this whole thing could come tumbling down if you don't stop this company yeah I mean I think some of those

concerns are very valid when you're when you're talking about Huawei but I think also just the issue of building these backdoor entries into our technology is something that we are very concerned about both happening here at home this has been an issue that we've been dealing with in Congress where because of Provisions that were passed in The Patriot Act there were loopholes that have been exploited by some of our tech companies

working with some of our intelligence agencies to build these backdoors into their systems into their programs or into their Hardware which directly violates the civil liberties and Fourth Amendment rights for us as Americans and I think that points to the bigger issue of civil liberties and privacy and the growing power that the tech industry has that we've got to be very very eye in my

opinion concerned and careful of and actually exercising the kind of oversight and accountability that we should have been doing frankly a long time ago Tech is a really important conversation to have with you right now you're in the middle of this lawsuit with Google yeah explain that so the first debate that we had in this presidential election you know we had hoped that I would do well going into it and that people would go and start their internet searches a hey who is Tulsi gabbard never heard of her

for and so we went and got you know Google ads setup got them improved everything was ready to rock and roll I was the most Googled candidate of the night as I have been for every debate that I've participated in the issue was during that first debate you know what wall that Peak period was happening are our Google ad account was suspended by Google with no explanation whatsoever no like hey you guys there there was nothing like hey you guys screwed up

fix this put your comeback that is so sketchy it's so scary and it and so you know our Tech guys are freaking out there like man this is what we were waiting for now you guys took our count on tell us we got to do to get it back up and a we didn't hear back for a while once we start hearing back be heard back from different people with different answers nothing clear-cut to say you did this wrong fix this we'll put your account back nothing and then all of a sudden you know hours and hours had gone by

and then our account was reinstated without any explanation about what happened and you know this is this is bigger than just the loss in opportunity that my campaign had because this happened on that night during that period it's a bigger issue about the power that this Corporation has in Google in interfering essentially in Fair elections and in what kind of information they are willing to put in front of people don't they

um Boston Dynamics to this Google on Boston Dynamics they didn't I sold it good move here bring it Chuckles ready for the Black Mirror I'll tell you what you get you get extra double bonus credit for me right now Tulsa because that right there is so crazy and free to be like yeah it's bad for me but it's also bad for the American people I would have been stuck at bad for me that is not it is so gnarly it they did that and it's so true

it's parent very few people talked about it and very few people know about it exactly that's what it was so stunning about it it's like there's people pulling strings who why not undefined and no investigation into it until you put out this lawsuit there's really no way to find out yeah it started to force that conversation that we're continuing to push to the Forefront about how particularly with Google and Facebook the inordinate amount of power that they have to as we sit in type in and

Google search for whatever or we you know what's popping up on our Facebook feed they control that I think that we have a real issue in this country with advertising in those things and Google and Facebook a real issue that it's never really been fully discussed because those things just sort of came up out of nowhere you know we had social networks we had my space and we had you know we didn't think anything of it and then all of a sudden not only they hear but they have this extraordinary amount of influence yeah they have algorithm so it's not just they're putting out what

put out they have algorithms that figure out what you're into and then show you that so if you're just really in a conflict which most people are they just shown you conflict all day long and it's getting everybody riled up so it's having a direct effect whether it's planned and coordinated or not it's having a direct effect on discourse in this country and I think it's one of the reasons why what you were talking about before where you're either out with us or you're against us and it's never been more Hardline than it has been right now and all of this is because of

advertising money and advertising what like what are you even selling all your do you're just a portal to connect people with each other and through that you're gaining an insane amount of influence and an extraordinary amount of money is being generated and we never agreed to it right it's just sort we just look down we saw the ad what are they selling oh yeah okay it looks like a nice watch and then we just all of us and then everybody's just getting bought and sold and it's happening to a point now where that is one of the

in town halls one of the main places where people discuss ideas in the world right is he social media networks and they're not getting smaller they're only getting bigger so they keep growing and they keep stacking up and whether it's Google or Facebook or any of the Twitter any of these the amount of influence they have is insane and they're just people right there just people do just regular folks like I Know Jack Dorsey he's a nice guy so regular fucking person the fact that this guy has so much power this company has so much power that any of these

companies have so much power we are not ready for this and this is happening right under our noses and it's happening so quickly and then when something like your Google situation happens where it's like well well well well well not only you profiting but now you're fucking pulling strings you're showing us your pulling strings yeah and everybody's like what's going on nothing oh sure you spend it whatever but you they're interfering with democracy and it's weird sort of semi-legal way you know like

you can just say that violated policy like what policy what policy did you violate that they just cancel your ad if they still have not told us that that's insane that you violated was being a viable candidate for priming I think exactly not only viable candidate but one that's saying hey you guys are too fucking big yeah I'm gonna break up these monopolies and provide the kinds of oversight and accountability that will protect the consumer that will protect the American people protect fair and honest disclosure

discourse protect freedom of speech that's the issue and that's a Frank that's the difference between me and and somebody like mayor Pete for example other candidates and he's not the only one but other candidates who refused to take a strong position in recognizing the threat to our public discourse and our democracy that these Tech Giants have really within the hands of just a few people you

of I think this is just broken the news recently Mark Zuckerberg who you know people were taught he's like wanted to run for president not that long ago and was seriously considering it and you know he's trying to start his own cryptocurrency wants to have his own currency that he controls like the amount of power this guy has and that he wants to continue to grow is so dangerous he decided not to run for president but he and his wife started emailing mayor Pete's campaign manager saying

he hears some guys we think you should hire for your campaign and so they hired to of Zuckerberg Facebook guys who are now working for mayor Pete's campaign and so they're going to have a seat at the table should this guy get elected which means Facebook is going to have a seat at the table never mind what if you get selected when he's got two people that are inside track at Facebook yep that show up there I don't know if you've ever done anything with Facebook as far as advertising but like people that understand how all that stuff works I talked to him before it's a whole science behind it so now that they're in

he should get a big bump across the board yeah I don't know Mark Zuckerberg but I don't like the way he drinks water nah she tucks those little sips when he's being grilled I've ever seen that did the weirdest little sips of water I don't trust a person man woman or non-binary creature to take sips of water like that that's just not the way you drink water we drink water is like I'm thirsty I'm gonna have some more that's how you show me how he did it

this will show you what will play the video it's like this he's like he puts this glass up to his mouth and like touches the lips of the wise like a robot pretty by here we go watch this look at this he's a robot pretending to drink watch this what the fuck is happening here what is happening here the water didn't move I never noticed this before barely moves it barely like slit hope that Jamie was able to find that same as a master has to pay me so sotol see this from a strategic perspective

perspective all right do you feel like these moves like you coming out strong against Google Facebook saying that you could break up those types of monopolies strategically are you thinking right now will maybe that wasn't the best call because you know you could have not been so strong against them and and pie plate along with them a little bit maybe they look at you and go through the list that that Joe went through earlier which is you're a veteran you're a woman you're a woman of color you're from Hawaii you got this experience congresswoman yeah congresswoman

you got all this stuff they could look at you oh oh yeah she's good we can get her on our side and then maybe you know increase your chances of getting elected then you get elected then you go okay you know what I thought about this and guess what we're not doing it that way and I'm going to break you guys up do you think strategically or is that just your the type of person you are as like you know what I'm just going to I'm going to tell the truth from the get-go is that basically what I'm going to tell the truth and call it straight no matter what and you know no matter who I'm dealing with because

eight that's who I am and be people are sick and tired of politicians who play this game and do this political dance as they're trying to get people elected and be like okay well if I just if I just say this or if I just kind of cozy up to these people or these interests they can help me get elected and then when I win then I'm going to do the right thing well guess what as you when you win all of you okay I've got to win the next re-election that means I need more money from Wall Street I need more money from Google I need more money from

um these guys so I can't say anything to piss him off just yet I'm going to wait until I get reelected then that's when I'm really going to start to do the right thing and and I think people across party lines are sick and tired of the same old politicians who say one thing and do another and instead are looking for real leadership it just seems like there's a Tipping Point that we will have to reach before that actually happens I don't know if we're there yet it's kind of like you know when I was on your podcast the first time Joe and you told me to start it

podcast at that time I don't know if you know this or not it was not it was 2015 the stats were that 17 percent of America were listening to podcasts and now it's something like seventy eight percent in four years just totally different but when you talk about Tulsi having a podcast which you absolutely should and by the way all you need to do is go and do a question-and-answer town hall of people have somebody recorded splice it up to the good stuff and put that out 20 minutes long people start to learn how you are yes but my point is that

that change happened and right now you know Joe Rogan has like the most powerful voice in media in a very short period of time but five years ago he didn't you know five years ago I'd be like oh you want to sell a book you better go on to Big Network nowadays oh you want to sell a book you try and get on Joe Rogan and he can paddle some book for you or get your product out there or help your campaign we're like at that Tipping Point politically it seems right now and yeah just what is it going to take to push people over the edge that's the question I think that

what we saw happen in in 2016 I think pointed to that Tipping Point and I believe that that we are here because you know I these are conversations that we're having in town hall meetings in different parts of the country again where we're building this Coalition of Americans who are most interested in putting our country first who are willing to disagree without being disagreeable but understand we got to treat each other with

respect and Stand United around the principles and freedoms that bring us together focusing on we the people putting the interests of the people first and foremost and and I would say that the vast majority of Americans have put up with the same old same old for so long and are sick and tired of this pay-to-play culture in Washington of the political corruption that exists of the you know big money special interests who influence the decisions that leaders are making the benefit them

instead of the people that they're looking for a leader that says what they mean and mean what they say and who will back that up with action I think that's where our opportunity that that's where we're seeing you know support growing for my campaign the more people hear about who I am the background and experience that I bring to this job and and that I that I am willing to take a stand to speak the truth for the people even against some of the most powerful interests honest

our biggest challenges getting in front of people because most people in the country still don't know who I am or you have people who maybe have heard about me but they've gotten the the corporate media narrative but they're Tulsi curious their Tulsi curious and really that's a good way to put it so that's really where our effort is focused now New Hampshire's voting and less than a hundred days and so you know we're asking for support from people to make contribution to my campaign

tell us what does it mean to See 20/20.com literally getting this support will make the difference for us to be able to bypass this corporate media narrative and actually communicate directly directly to voters directly to people no one better than you knows that these tech companies have this extraordinary amount of power and that it's just no one anticipated it came out of nowhere what do you think could be done to ensure that people have a voice and that this voice is not being

did because of financial interests or political interests and this is where we're at today that this these companies like it or not they don't have to abide by the First Amendment that's not what they do they can decide we're going to ban you based on your political leanings based on me there's a famous case out of Canada where a woman was having an she's a you know what a Turf is it's a trans exclusionary radical feminist that's never heard that but radical feminists who don't believe the transgender

women should be involved in women's issues and that they shouldn't be able to vote on women's issues and she was in an argument on Twitter name is Megan Murphy and she said a man is never a woman Twitter told her you got to take that down so she's a bit feisty she took it down took a screenshot put it back up with screenshot just like okay I took it down there it is again though and the Bandit for life Wow for life so it's something like that where you can't even have opinions on things that are controversial without

being removed from the discourse we have a real problem with that yeah that's a giant problem this is just one social thing it's a hot button issue right now and whether or not it'll still whether it's just a fad or it'll go away or it'll be normalized we don't know but the fact that you don't have the First Amendment protecting people from a legitimate opinion that's actually based on you know whether you like it or not biological science this is a this is a very we're in a very strange time that a company I just use this isn't it

an example because you're talking about something where it's biologically clear that she's correct whether or not you socially think that people should be treated how they want to be treated and use the pronouns they well I agree with that yeah but you're talking about someone who's saying something that's biologically correct so we have a we have a problem we're at a we're at a fork in the road we have to figure out how the hell this gets handled because if just social trends like this can dictate whether or not a person is removed from the conversation forever we got a giant

there's no other option there's no other alternative platform yeah that you can participate in and that's just one example of the thousands and thousands of examples of people that are removed from conversations based on their political liang's their ideologies and and meanwhile there's just unlimited hardcore pornography on Twitter which is perfectly okay yeah but we can't say that about whatever that situation is which I don't understand it's pretty hard and OJ Simpson as well OJ Simpson's on

Twitter what's the Solaris and also I think that kind of thing is the kind of thing that gets a backlash from moderate people have Sarah moderate person sitting in Nebraska's like well who am I voting for well these people are bad they're against this whole idea okay looks like Trump is on my side Hungry Ghost and that's eat this this idea that you can di platform people and somehow know that weakens the position that you don't agree with it's the opposite the opposite happens you pump up the only hope that they have of getting their side of the story

out there their side of the story is going to be represented by Trump and Trump supporters and I don't know what the president can or can't do to sort of enforce some sort of I mean we obviously have a new situation when it comes to Communication in this country with social media and tech companies yes it's very new and it's really it's only the last couple of decades it's even been a thing and now it's one of the biggest things when income in terms of discourse and how people communicate and how people form opinions about things that's a tremendous influence on our culture and

the fact that this isn't protected by the First Amendment we have a very strange new force in our country when it comes to discourse and I think laws need to be formed that we need to have some sort of parameters that you mean there's laws on virtually everything and virtually everything that has massive influence over the way it affects our country and that's one where there isn't really there there's they're independent companies and they're not there they can do whatever they want

yeah essentially yeah mean that it's Limitless I think I agree with you I think this is agree with you both with regards to the tech companies but also this bigger kind of culture War that's happening in our country this cancel culture that exists that I think it I mean it does it threatens the kind of of freedom of speech and and discourse that I think we've celebrated in this country for so long where this is the country yeah where you can stand up and say

say what you believe no matter how terrible I may think it is or how strong they may disagree with it you know people like us are willing to lay our life down for your right to do that and I think that's that's what is at risk here with this this culture this this cancel culture is having such a chilling effect where people are maybe afraid to say something that may be seen as controversial as it opens into some because they will get cancelled and in summer and in some cases you've seen how people's especially if you're a public figure

your whole career can be just like gone finished cancel culture is real simple everyone now has a rock and there's a big window someone throws a rock at that window and you like my fucking throw my rock to and that's what happened people just whether or not they have a strong opinion on something or not they just decide that's the spot were throwing the Rocks right and they just Chuck the rocks and then they feel like they have some sort of a part of a politician gets taken down there like look I helped look at my Twitter feed my Twitter feeds filled with calling that guy peace I was the first one yeah first on

that didn't I think that that he mentioned was it happened the debate Kamala Harris was she'd like launched a petition or publicly was calling for Twitter to delete President Trump's account yeah and she really really made a big deal out of this did a whole media to her like all this called Elizabeth Warren all this stuff I was asked about it by a reporter shortly after she had made this announced I did not even heard of it like what do you think about Kamala Harris calling on Twitter to cancel Trump's Twitter account said well

you know I disagree with not everything but a lot of what Trump says but freedom of speech freedom of speech so no I completely disagree with her and the response from her campaign spokesperson no kidding Tulsi gabbard Echoes Fox News talking points the freedom of Fox news is saying oh well what about freedom of speech by the way Richard Spencer loves her

but that's like this is where we're at like just saying hey freedom of speech you're the present whether you're the present United States or you're the guy sweeping the floor in the white house I will stand up and fight for your freedom of speech I may disagree and I may disagree publicly and strongly but we've got to we've got to draw the line here for freedom of speech and being able to have this dialogue and discourse where we can and I think that we should debate strongly and maybe passionately about some of these issues

not seeing that as a bad thing that's been the strength of our country it'll be interesting you know from a free market perspective if at some point somebody comes out with a social media platform that is really truly free speech I have done that I have done that but they get taken over by trolls there's thinks bike and run around right now gaps one yeah it'll just be yeah and but people have told me Tech friends of mine that say they say that immediately turns into what is it 4chan and 8chan adjust yeah he goes into the gutter it's an open sewer

I mean it's just like have you ever seen those pipes that pump sewage into the ocean like this is green disgusting that's mean and it's not the fault of the social media companies the companies like Gap they're committed to free speech and what they're trying to do is let it just let it all work itself out and abide by the Constitution don't Doc's anybody don't give up anybody's address right on threaten anybody or doing do any harm and just talk crazy and do it anonymously and that's what a lot of people are doing it but it's very difficult for even the people that felt like they were

D platform door their voice wasn't being able to be heard they don't want to join into this crazy shit because because of the four channels Savages are just trying to post pictures of their dinner right it's so nuts I mean look I mean even posting pictures of your dinner I mean you get you do that on Instagram and if it's a dead deer or something like that your risk of getting your picture taken down it's the amount of power that's being exhibited by these

eating companies again no one anticipated this what could be done what do you think could be done like say you you get you become president what would you do so I think there's there's two things here that we've talked about the freedom of speech the control over information I think part and parcel to that that we didn't really talk much about is how much of our private information these tech companies have and what they're doing with it maybe without us even knowing about how that's that's helping to drive up their profits I think it's both of those

components we've got to be concerned by the number one is we look at our antitrust laws that exist in this country for the protection of the consumer against any giant monopolies from coming in and be in a position to abuse their power and apply those laws to these Tech Giants I think the fact that Facebook owns obviously Facebook Instagram and WhatsApp I don't think that I think that is the definition of a monopoly across

forms that many of us use because there isn't really a legitimate alternative option available to us so I think that's the first thing and looking at breaking up these these monopolies I think Facebook's co-founder Chris Hayes I think is his name I think he wrote I think very compelling argument against Facebook Monopoly saying they have gotten way too powerful they should not have been able to buy these other companies and the second thing is Congress actually digging down

and and passing laws that provide actual oversight and a level of accountability to ensure that our freedom of speech and our freedom to access information is not impeded by these Tech Giants whether it's for their own profits or to pursue their own political interests they face they face there's people in

side of Twitter that are like Jack Dorsey believes and at least according to what he's told me that Twitter should be like a town hall where everyone should be able to have access but he faces resistance that inside the actual company that he's a CEO of there's so many people that don't think that that's the way it should be and they think that they have a political or social obligation to limit certain voices because those voices radicalize young people like what do you say to those people

oil

I mean with without knowing examples of what their sighting here's the thing is is what they may view as radicalizing young people because of the ideology that they as individuals may hold on to may be seen in the opposite way by people who hold a different political ideology you know I think this is something that that that we're seeing happening offline as well you know whether it's in college campuses or in other places where

both sides view the other side as indoctrinating young people or indoctrinating people with their ideology look at Fox News and MSNBC they are both pushing opposing narratives on you know news happenings of the day or whatever is happening in Washington there you watch the exact same thing happened you know the killing of baghdady you saw very different bias in the news about the water sent by these jury

you see the Washington Post Oak Lane tell people what they said they put a story up that's Africa with the quote was but they call them like a stupid cleric religious cleric scholar yeah wow what's that word a store what does that word astute no religious scholar forget what were they used to describe him put just try to find out what this I think it's a stir

religious scholar I was like what

that guy there yeah like how can you that's just Insanity yeah but how does that answer man but how does that get through how does I mean how does someone in the Washington Post go I'll come I like what you did there yeah the print that you can't even fathom yeah it was that kind of head of Isis yeah exactly here it is aster how do you say that word I steer steer steer I never say that word I just read it yeah that was the first time in my whole life 52 years of age I've said it out loud religious

dollar at Helm of its Islamic State dies at 48 what in the fuck wow religious scholar well at least when you zoom in on his eyes there you can tell he's completely insane yeah yeah zoom in on that Jamie let me get a zoom what yeah whoa Jesus Christ yeah he got ahold of trump Sudafed look at them sneaking out of that title is so bananas yeah it is it's crazy that's as Tulsi just pointed out that someone driving

a narrative yeah someone driving near because somebody that doesn't understand this that's their first glimpse of this reality in their glimpse of this reality is that this guy was an austere religious leader what is the actual definition of austere let's pull that up because I want to find out how hilarious is really is because I think it's really hilarious

which by the way is it's Jamie's doing that Washington Post owned by oh here we go severe or strict in manner attitude or appearance and austere man with a rigidly puritanical Outlook

too nice this guy was a Puritan this far as they're concerned yeah Puritan piece of shit having an extremely plain and simple style or appearance unadorned okay he's dressed like a genie he's living in a hole in the ground and he's running Isis people are out of your mind offensive it's so strange I mean there's real monsters in this world and when you add a bunch of words to a description of a real monster that make that

seem like they're a contributor to culture it's just and that's what it seems religious scholar always a religious scholar must be a good guys helping people so happen to be most people's heads off rights thrown gay people off the top of buildings right because they don't agree with his quote unquote religious scholarly beliefs such a strange Choice the fact that that's a mainstream publication a huge newspaper and that is that somehow or no

another slip through the the net like what the headline like that front page that's not slipping through the net it's nuts that's planned but to Someone Like You who's actually had to go over there and risk your life to fight guys like that how sick does that make you just read that

it's awful for a couple reasons obviously it's awful for the kind of straightforward reason that you realize that people are learning the wrong thing they're going to understand this in the wrong way that's one part of it but the other part of it is that there's someone that wrote that headline yeah someone that wrote someone that has a position of influence in the world that wrote that headline and said yeah this guy's an austere religious leader scholar there's a guy I forget his name he's a he's a famous

he's Muslim commentator Who's online but he attacked that so viciously and talked about what a piece of garbage that guy actually was and how awful he is and how this is goes against everything that a modern Muslim feels and thinks yeah and that this have this person represent and and to say a religious scholar so deeply offensive and that's fantastic I wish I could remember that guy's name who did it

mette and me DHI but this is the Washington Post I mean this isn't like someone's blog on Tinder or something or whatever wherever you have blogs these days it's this is a huge mainstream publication and it just the the distorting of narratives is such a strange factor in today's culture that this we don't have a Walter Cronkite the giving us the straightforward news

every day on the air with no lien or slant and just give you the fact we don't have that we don't have what we thought of as you know a top-level newspaper from 1980 or whatever where they were doing real journalism trying to break down the story in a way that you could understand why you're drinking your coffee trying to raise the world blowing up let me see what's going on here yeah my dad pointed out to me you know you were talking about there's nothing that unifies us anymore and you're like hey everyone changes through to I obviously agree with that but what

that was telling me that in the 60s and the 70s there was one unifying thing that everybody did which is watched Walter Cronkite on the news and so when you showed up to work the next day everyone had heard the same narrative and they and they could have disagreed on it but they all had kind of the same basic fundamental facts and so now we actually have people going home and I'm going to jump into my bubble over here and watch Fox News and you're going to get jumped in your bubble over there and watch MSNBC

and like how do you even communicate with each other yeah yeah we don't we have so many choices but so few paths I was when I was I was I caught some Rachel Maddow one time and I never watched it before so I was like okay I'm gonna watch her and I was like wow did you two completely different completely different than what I would see on Fox News completely different and I'm thinking myself wow this is hard to hard to imagine and you've seen the clips of when Trump won of all the compilation of

everyone's reaction all the all the liberal reaction they were but on the news yes I mean does it does MSNBC they don't claim to be like you know nonpartisan at all do they or news for that matter I think I think they don't have to it's just they are MSNBC they don't have to have a directive they just say everyone knows it's like we there's there's an understanding when you're going there you either going to hate view like you're either a republican is going there to see what these silly Liberals are up to

or you're one of the converted and she's preaching to the choir I think want one interesting proof point of this is I think a poll came out yesterday on where the American people stand on impeachment and something like 75 80 percent of fox viewers oppose impeachment and 75 80 % of NBC MSNBC viewers support impeachment and they're covering the very same impeachment inquiry and hearings and we know Witness

Tony and all of that I don't think people even understand what that all means and whether or not it even has a chance of happening you know base now I don't think I don't think people do either they don't they just it seems like some fun talking point some gotcha thing where they've got them you know Ukraine got him we got him we got him this time Stormy Daniels didn't stick but this one this one's gonna sink yeah you know you think yourself if Stormy Daniels didn't stick what else you gonna do he might as well just might as well to back off and just try and work with the guy at that point

I would be like okay you know what he's Teflon we just need to move on move forward there's a hilarious girl I don't know who she is did I send you that video where the girls getting people to get pumped up about impeachment and she's got like like rainbow colored hair and she looks like a liberal I think she even has one of those pink kitty cat hats on and and she gets some she's like Pro and Peach it they'll again impeach him fucking impeachment she goes yay president pants yeah you know what yeah president baek

he gets impeached and we get president Pence and they live on she like maybe we should just like let this play out I like what you got probably probably just let him finish his term but it isn't it is hilarious it's hilarious because it's a sport it's basically replacing its for it's a sport for people don't like football it's like they're their idea of who's winning or losing this game is very personal and they feel like their team got killed in 2016 and they would come back and kick ass and

2020 and that's what's going on and everything they can get at them well not a not only that I mean it's that but then you've got some folks who some democrat leaders in Washington who are saying well you know we need to get rid of trump through impeachment to protect ourselves from possibly losing the election in 2020 which I think is just like a open Ed you know admit all of well we don't think that we can actually beat him at The Ballot Box so we're trying to you

this political maneuver in order to get rid of him even though it's highly unlikely that even if the house does vote to impeach which isn't fully clear this point but even if that were to happen the Senate is not going to convince 20 it's highly unlikely the Senate's going to convince 20 Republicans to vote with every Democrat to actually physically kick Trump out of office and this is why I mean I've always maintained that you know

look I look forward to beating Donald Trump at The Ballot Box where the American people can unequivocally let their voices be heard saying nope we're done with the leadership and and all that Trump brought to office and were choosing to go in a New Direction have you thought about what kind of nickname he'll have for you because you know he's going to come up with a nickname yeah did you see how they played you on Saturday Night Live I did because I said I got to see what they did to her and I was really curious about what they were going to do how we're going to make

out and he made you out to be like this super evil person and I got a kick out of it why they make when they do you didn't see it no it's funny it's a it's a it's a super short clip but basically they're like there is a villain amongst all of these candidates and that villain is Tulsi ever oh God strikes fear Into the Heart of every other person up here I something like that like a Despicable Me type cartoon villain they portrayed me as like a Cruella de Vil

but the thing is I was thinking as it was playing out they don't show you for a while and I go they're not even going to put her in here I like they're not even there not having to put her in here they you know Clinton got to her and said don't want to scrub in Haiti are time at all it's just it's just so interesting to me that they it's so clear that you're a vibrant candidate but that they don't want to get behind ya be at they do want to get behind Joe Biden who can barely get through a sentence that poor guy is falling someone needs to give that guy

growth hormone steroid like kale shakes fats takes like bro you need to take some time off we need to get you in a hyperbaric chamber you need you don't have any energy yeah especially because Donald Trump has energy yes and he goes on stage for an hour and a half at a rally with no teleprompter no 30,000 people who dug reaming no drink no bathroom break he's just up there going he's like an animal like there and it fuels him and then you mean while you're looking at Biden

and you're like this how is this even gonna work out his teeth are literally falling out in the end of the campaign weight is for people's names wrong do they want to win or don't they they that is the quest but they don't want to win with someone they can't control exactly you know it's like the first UFC you know they had hoist fight in the first UFC because it couldn't control Hickson oh yeah yeah except the family Champion but hickson's like hickson's going to do whatever the fuck he wants to do they had no control to have so Horan was like well if he always loses then we'll go with Hickson for now let's get wet in there because it

control exit yeah but that's literally what they're afraid of if you wanted to show what you Jutsu could do everyone on Earth that new Jiu-Jitsu new Hicks and Gracie was the baddest man on the planet how do you navigate this Tulsa it seems like the it seems like okay if you want to get the Democratic nomination you've got to be pretty far to the left right but if you want to actually win the presidency then you got to be more moderate so that seems like a tough little thing to try and get through as well

I think that that is the conventional so-called wisdom that just isn't true anymore I think this is what you know you hear a lot of the political pundits talking who's far left who Centrist moderate who's this this that I think what's what's proving to be true is is more about you know who is who is who is the establishment candidate versus who is anti-establishment and that you know I don't fit into any one of those boxes because

I look at every issue based on its merits I'll look at the substance of the issue look at the arguments for and against and go with the approach that I think actually this is a radical idea and that's the thing like these people they're like oh my God we can't figure her out because she doesn't have any of these labels but but that is where the vast majority the American people are you have these these extremes on the fringes who are all about these you know Purity tests Where You Are

you're either with me on every single issue or you're done you're finished your unacceptable but the vast majority of Americans again they're looking at what is real leadership real leadership whether you're talking about the guy who's working in the manufacturing warehouse you're talking about a blue collar worker you're looking at okay here's here's the thing here's the issues that keep most people up at night you know you want to make sure that if your kid is sick that you're going to be they're gonna be able to get the health care they need you want to make sure you have a roof over your family's head there their basic things

approaching them in a way that is pragmatical common pragmatic common sense and solutions-oriented is not only the right thing to do I think it's the thing that makes it so you don't have to say well in the primary I'm only going to talk Democrats and the most radical and extreme among them and then I'm totally going to flip the script and then speak to the whole country after I win the primary election that's that's ridiculous this is why

you know I'll go on Fox News MSNBC CNN and I'm delivering the exact same message to people and we're building and growing support and people who watch those three different channels who are actually listening like me like she makes sense like she's not crazy she's not spouting some party talking point she's not you know going down a radical path just to appeal to the Twitter winds that are blowing one way or the other it's just about hey let's do what's best

best for the people and for the country I'm stunned by the blow back to for you going on Fox News the people actually upset that they do not think that you should Grace this the the Fox News screens yeah that you you're doing a disservice to your party yeah which is interesting while I get the same stuff and because I go on Fox News and why do I go on Fox News Fox News invites me on the Fox News you know who's never invited me on every Embassy and again as you pointed out earlier like it's pretty hard to pin me down politically and I'm not one to kiss

sit there and try and make radical statements to try and get more you know likes on the Twitter thing you don't do that yeah I don't it's like oh I'm here of to trying to make some points about the way you know most people want to talk about his is about leadership sounds like oh because what we're doing is human beings is where leading other people whether it's just your family or whether it's your business or whatever or its troops out in the field so yeah it's weird that you would get attacked for going on Fox News when actually anybody that looks at that

a strategic view would think oh she's actually accepted by by this this right wing news organization maybe she could get some other you know moderate conservative votes maybe we should think about bringing her in as a candidate because she could win well not only that what's wrong with going on stage or going on camera with someone that you oppose someone you disagree with and having a dialogue about what you disagree with right that's the weird thing about this cancel culture this is strange

I'm were living and you're not even supposed to communicate with people about ideas that you disagree on yeah I got some criticizing you for being on Tucker Carlson John particular yeah and that's I was going to say you know yeah it's one thing to say okay you're going to go on Fox News and you know tussle with Sean Hannity about things you disagree on but I think what they see is more dangerous is finding areas where you actually do agree right and that's you know on Tucker Carlson I have a platform to be able to speak to millions of people across the country

about the kind of leadership that I bring in the area of foreign policy what I would do here in this country what I would do there in that country if I were president today and I have the opportunity to deliver that message directly to people's living rooms or offices or wherever they are and you know I think in some of these areas Tucker Tucker and I will disagree on a whole host of things but on some of these issues of foreign policy he'll say yeah I agree with you and I think when you look at this this

and so culture how you know I was attacked on the debate stage for going on Fox News how do you think you're going to lead this country all Americans if you're completely not only shutting out and not willing to talk to half the country that watches Fox News but you're in fact disrespecting and dismissing them just because they may disagree with you or they watch a different News Channel then you do I think that's the bigger issue here as yeah you know there's

a political consequence you're never going to be able to have a dialogue with what to speak of win support from people who you treat like garbage you disrespect you call names who you call deplorable 's but how do you expect to lead as the president of every single American in this country when you've thrown half of them away and say you know what I actually don't care about you I only care about people who I agree with that's that's to me the the worst part about all of this

I couldn't agree more does that deplorable thing was a big hit and then you're also remember when Mitt Romney said hey there's forty seven percent of the country that there's no way voting for him so we just need to forget about him yeah exactly those two those two things completely divided and sent people to vote for the opposing candidate like you don't call me deplorable oh really watch this I'm voting for doing you're gonna ignore me or you're just going to dismiss for my vote doesn't matter I think also it speaks to what both people have that it's distasteful that they're

related and one of the things that I do appreciate you about you is that I think you're not I think the way you view things is you would far rather speak your mind and be truthful and have real legitimate opinions on things rather than have some weird slimy sort of Shifty take that's been created by a bunch of people that think that this is going to be the right thing that you could say that's going to end you know and get you a little closer in the polls and

you this way and move the needle that way that that Shifty style of politics I really feel is dead I just I just don't think you can do it that way anymore I think people because of the Open Access to information that people have today and the way that people can communicate and find out information I just don't think we want to buy that Shifty politician talk anymore I think we're done with that I think we realize it's Antiquated it's never served us it sucks and it just it

it just gives you the same thing every time you get someone who gets into office and they do completely different things and what they said they were going to do before they got in yeah that's even you know I thought about all the people are they heard deployables they heard 47% and that's bad but yeah you're right what it really made people think is oh behind the scenes you're totally different than you are when you're standing on stage Shifty I know what you're like and I'm not voting for you yeah you're manipulative yeah you're following this you know you're following whether it's

holes or you're following these these groups that are going out and trying to figure out which way the tide is turning on social media I mean there's so many groups now and so many companies that are just just looking at data online and opinions and then they give this data to people that are trying to influence folks and they lean one way or another and they try to manipulate their message in order to have a more favorable rating and it's so slimy

and it's also the the kind of hypocrisy of this whole thing is these are people who are asking to lead the most powerful nation in the world yes and yet they are not leaders at all

their followers have you given any consideration to the fact that this is basically an impossible job that everybody who gets in their ages a hundred and fifty years except Trump he doesn't seem to age at all he looks great for I mean look like shit when he got in but he looks exactly the same you would think you look like a skeleton by now he'd be a corpse but no looks looks like it's not even it's like he eats a lot of fast food I hear rolling off is back whatever it is there's a lesson to be learned he should give you really should give a class on

giving a fuck and like how it how it affects you personally he's got a master's degree in there without a doubt you can say you don't give a fuck but that's when the whole world is angry at you like half the world maybe more than half the world because half of America and then who knows what percentage of the rest of the world is upset at you not a lot of supporters internationally right yeah and that guy yeah it just keeps moving but have you given any consideration to that this is a

a job that almost no one really Nails no one gets out after four years or eight years and it's like boom fucking nailed it no one no one is creating all these visual images in my mind when I don't mean nobody gets out there like Obama you did it there's half the people going to hate you no matter what in this this legit there's a legit argument that it's ridiculous position that to have one alpha chimp dominate the entire clan in

19 when there's 320 million of us it seems insane it doesn't seem like you really can pay attention to everything whether it's the economy of the environment or foreign policy or all the social issues is so much going on how can one person really have that job so the first thing I'll say is that if you're going into this to be popular or to have

he loved you then you should not be president at all that's why I'm never going to be president that's all well there you go you can come over and have dinner with me in the white house when we get them excited so I think I think that's the most important and that's the problem that we see in a lot of our politics is and what we're seeing on Twitter as people are putting stuff out for what they think will get the most likes or will get the most retweets rather than putting out what they believe in or what's true or what's actually really really

portant I think that's the first thing about how I would govern and Lead as president about continuing what I've always done which is actually just focusing on hey let's let's do the best job we can do to deliver the best results for the American people none of us are perfect and won't always get it perfectly right all the time I think understanding that we have often forgotten these days we have three co-equal branches of government so

the president alone in the executive branch does not have absolute or ultimate power over our government or over making decisions that impact the lives of Americans across this country I think our our Founders set up our government with this in mind that we left the monarchy for a reason so that we don't have one person with absolute power but instead we have a president a commander-in-chief who is leading our country

working with the United States Congress the house and the Senate which is made up of people who are elected from their communities or for and from their states to be able to form and shape the policies that do impact the lives of people in this country so that these decisions are not being made within a vacuum by one single individual but instead by a representative form of government with the Judiciary branches the check and balance to say hey this this one does not

not fall in line with the Constitution of the United States we're going to throw that one out making sure that these elected leaders you know are doing the right thing for the people so I think I think the opportunity that's here and I think what's necessary is having a president who leads with the best interest of the people in mind take seriously the principles enshrined within our constitution does not abuse that executive power which is something that we've seen growing in one consecutive

one after another Crossing both party lines but instead really take seriously that oath that we all take that we took as a member of Congress that we took in the military that the president takes to uphold and defend our constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic well said yeah and I think you know Tulsi is a military person as well and when you go and you do the best you can and you make the decisions for the right you make the you make the

decisions for the right reasons which are necessarily going to turn out right sometimes you make decisions and they don't turn out okay but you had the right intentions you tried to write do the right thing it didn't go the way you wanted it to you don't Point your fingers of blame anybody else you say okay here's here's the mistake I made here is we're going to do to fix it and at the end of the day you can walk away and say okay well I know that I did the best I could with the right intentions and generally just like you were talking about people being able to see through when someone's lying behind says people see you know what they're trying to do the best job

they had the right intentions in mind and I think you I think you actually could walk away from the job not saying I did a great job nailed it as Joe Rogan was saying but but to walk away with your head held high and be able to say yeah I did the best I could do I made some good decisions I made some bad decisions I tried to get us on the right path I tried to support the principles that I believe this country is based on and you move forward I think that's completely doable yeah do you have a long-term idea

like if you don't win in 2020 are you going to stick around for 2024 like how what is what are your thoughts on that I'm focused on 20/20

and then once that passes whether you win or not then you think about the future success so you're only 38 right yeah I don't buy that gray hair either I think it's fake I think I think you decided that you wanted to yoga board about my grave yeah just need a streak just a cool-looking streak no it's real out now oh yeah you gonna keep it if the whole thing goes gray so what are I don't want so far hold you to that yeah no no I

I started to go grey during my first deployment and so I decided to keep it just as a physical reminder of

those we lost and the price that so many people paid if you win will you be the youngest person ever to be president or whether some weirdos in the 1700s now I will be actually I believe I'll be the youngest yeah youngest in a woman pretty badass yeah double first I think you would think that a lot of people would be really excited about that instead of just attacking you yeah well again it just shows you how people are so committed to the machine and

you're one of the best examples of that I think because there's so much exciting about what you're saying there's so much that resonates is being honest and straightforward and well thought out and Newlands nuanced and balanced and yet still so much resistance but I think the machine is strong and the Machine knows that it doesn't really have a grip on you they don't and they never will and I think that's a you mentioned earlier I think that's that's creating fear and concern I just think it's important

Orton to point out the difference when we talk about the people who are concerned about this it is the people whose power is built off of that you know they've built this Foundation of power based on the status quo based on continuing this narrative that benefits the very few you know the most rich the most powerful the people who can purchase this influence in Washington as opposed to you know the vast majority of people in this country unfortunately whose voices are not being heard

in Washington whose concerns are not being met by and large and who exist outside of this this bubble of corruption within Washington and who are looking for a leader who's going to hear their voices and amplify them and serve their interest and I think that's where again you know we've got great opportunity and responsibility to reach those people all across this country and let them know who I am and to hear my message

message so they know that they're there is a choice that they do have a choice between more of the same old same old more of the pay-to-play corruption that that exists in Washington more of the perpetuation of the same foreign policy of of interventions and Missouri regime change its failed us and cost us so much versus fresh leadership with a new approach that puts our are the interests of our country and peace and security at the Forefront of the decisions

that are being made I think this is an interesting time too because it's one of the first times that I can remember where politicians that are running for president are pushing back against the media machine like Andrew Yang recently said I'm not going to go on and MSNBC unless they apologized publicly for a lack of representation I mean they didn't get it give him a chance to talk and they treated me Mother's a giant well support behind him as well yeah yeah yeah yeah people people are are seeing

through the you know the the facade that is presented by the corporate media and I think finding the power in our voices on you know through alternative media New Media social media and and and I think that's what we're seeing with people hey if they're given my campaign five dollars or you know ten dollars a month like there's so much power that is that is I think people are discovering within their own voices that can that that really is the only

thing that can overcome the obstacles that the political and media establishment are placing before us and before the people in and having their voices heard who is in the lead now it's still bot and right and behind Biden is Elizabeth Warren is that what the ideas it seems like it just seems like I think when you look at some of these polls and that's the other thing is they most often represent who is most well known in the country whose most famous rather than who actually has the most support

and Elizabeth Warren wasn't she a republican for a long time yeah when did she not when did she become a Democrat I may be wrong but I want to say she was in her 40s maybe early 50s something like that do you get a chance to talk to these people briefly I mean it's usually in passing a different campaign events or before the debate or something like that I know Bernie Sanders best obviously know a few of the others who I've worked with in the Senate and in Congress

some different issues Andrew Andrew Young I've enjoyed getting to know I liked him a lot Rihanna's well I like burning a lot to like them a lot more than I thought I would like sitting down and talking to him for three hours on a podcast it's just like oh you're just you're a person yeah you're not some crazy old due to screams out these because that's when you give a Man 3 seconds and he's yeah that's all you can do one minute soundbite 30-second sound bite that's who he is so what's next like where where where you at right now I think

our initial challenge our initial goal that we're seeking to meet here is to get have not qualified yet for the next debate in December we have to do to qualify we need to do two things one is we've got a surpass 200,000 individual donors that's hilarious you need money where you at right now we are at I think at about a hundred ninety nine thousand oh so we got that we're closed

the 2020.com don't jump on that like a grenade and then the second thing is is I think require a certain number of poles and I think I need one more pull to meet that requirement which is again is directly linked you look at look at a guy like I think Pete Buddha judge he spent nine million dollars on social media ads in order to get like a 4% bump in the polls you look at what some of these other guys have spent some of the billionaires that I think steyer spent 37 million dollars in order to

to qualify in the polls on the debate and so our challenge is we just need to we need to get out and get in front of people in order to make sure that that we're bypassing the corporate media and we're actually talking directly to Folks at home is there a real possibility that some time in our lifetime they can take money out of politics like that yes there has to be there has to be the more people learn about how completely lopsided our campaign Finance system is

that does two things it favors those or it helps those who are taking money from corporations and Pacs and lobbyists further deepening The Divide between the politicians and the people that they are supposed to be serving and representing and instead you know you've got this this Insider culture of lobbyists and politicians who are just hanging out and making the decisions and yeah I mean look this is the second thing is that you're seeing how

how corrupting that influence has is on the on the the politicians and the influence that they have over people and how much it's disproportionately helping the strength and the power of a two-party system where those parties can literally take like for me if if you wanted to give me a contribution you could give me the limit is twenty eight hundred dollars per the primary 2000 after that that's it you can't no matter how much you want you can give me any more money but if you want

to write a check type of Democratic party the Republican party doesn't matter unlimited amount of money that you can give to the party so what does that actually mean it means the power the party has a hell of a lot of power that they can leverage over individual members of Congress elected leaders to say if you don't play ball if you don't vote the way we want you to vote we're not going to be there to help you out in your election we're not going to run tv ads for you we're not going to help you out when you're getting attacked by the other guy which just makes the

them that we already have worse where instead of leaders voting based on what they believe is right for their constituents or right for their the the country or based on their conscience instead they're being goaded into voting for The interests of the political party putting party ahead of the interests of the country and so that that's I think the more people are learning about the consequence of our existing campaign Finance system the more they're demanding change and reform so that we are electing leaders who are

are accountable only to the people have you ever had a conversation with someone where they have tried to influence your vote in one way or another in that way that you just described I have so so you know I have met with lobbyists will say hey here's why I want you to vote this way and and oh you know by the way will be there at your next fundraising dinner or something like that I have a toast vampires you know they hang up your ass

girls like Joe come on man that's the deal right there and by the way you know years ago when I stopped taking Pac money I got no calls from any lobbyists

none when I said no Pac money no lobbyist money automatically they're like well obviously we can't talk to her for not giving her money crazy lady's not playing games exactly and then I haven't seen it you know I established very quickly in Congress that that I don't play political games and that I'm not going to be bullied into taking anybody else's position if I don't think it's the right one to take so I have not experienced that kind of like the the the party has never helped me in any of my elections ever for City

all four state legislature for congress so them coming in and saying well we're not going to be like dude you were never there for me ever anyway but I've seen it happen with some of my friends who maybe represent swing districts or who are Democrats who got elected in Republican District they're always going to have a really tough race I have seen it happen in real time where that those bully Tactics come into play speaking of tactics speaking of tactics ship strategy and tactics from jog away yeah right now you're going to need this when you

madam president do I have to call you madam president has that worked is that the word Madam president that's what they use up mrs. president because mr. president and Madam president yeah that's a weird thing right yeah we're about a last name as president yeah which is where this is mrs. generally means you're married yeah right yeah so yeah it Madam president is what I've seen yeah it has to be it's just never been done but you should call Always call me Tulsi all right what Madam Tulsa yeah well whatever

seems like a dominatrix Madam told her she could be a real issue yeah all right Jocko your books available right now origin main the website if you want to get margin main.com yep origin made on the state.com if you want to get some badass keys and jeans straight out of Jocko thank you so much for 2020.com we need your help we do Tulsi 2020.com go there donate let's move the needle that guys thank you thank you very much thank you for having us here my

Jacques I thank you Aloha thank you everybody for tuning into the show and thank you to our sponsors thank you to whoop I'm wearing my whoop strapped right now I don't even know I was doing a whoop add that I wear this fucking thing every day it gives me data folks lets you know how your body's recovering real-time feedback state-of-the-art application I love it I'm a gigantic fan of it and you can get one of their sweet Deals they got coming up this Black Friday they have a killer deal on a

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