#1066 - Mel Gibson & Dr. Neil Riordan

Jan 17, 2018

Mel Gibson is an actor and filmmaker. Neil Riordan, PA, PhD is one of the early pioneers and experts in applied stem cell research. https://www.cellmedicine.com/

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Hello friends what's crackin got a lot of Comedy dates coming up on the road next weekend the 25th 26th and 27th actually Thursday it starts off Thursday I'm in Austin Texas Friday I'm in Houston and then Saturday I'm in Durham North Carolina Joe Rogan dotnet forward slash tour for all that stuff in the next road trip is in February the 15th and Bakersfield 16th and Fresno and the 17th in

Santa Barbara I think Bakersfield and Fresno might still have some tickets I should pay attention to that stuff more Joe Rogan dotnet forward slash tour for all that and hopefully if you're in the neighborhood you can come by and say hi this episode the podcast is brought to you by movement watches you've heard me talk about these before if you listen to the podcast they make slick watches very nice stylish minimalist watches really high quality High construction and a fraction of what you would pay

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cast my guests today are the Great and Powerful Mel Gibson who's a trip to be around with in real life and you will hear insistent clicking click click click click click click of this pain that Mel had in his grasp and I couldn't stop him from clicking I don't know what to say I didn't know what to do I'm watch I say something it's Mel Gibson ultimately I was like fuck it I don't want to say anything it's Mel Gibson I just want to let them fucking click away and be crazy but he's a he's a unique and eccentric character I really enjoyed talking

tommen hanging out with them like got a chance to show him some back exercises and shit and his friend who's dr. Neil Reardon and dr. Neil read Reardon is he's a doctor and an expert in mesenchymal stem cells I hope I'm saying that right and they got together by him treating Mel's dad who was 92 at the time and I tell this whole story about all the issues that he had

had and the miraculous recovery that he's had at 92 now he's almost a hundred

from using these stem cells which are right now currently illegal in the United States you have to go to Panama to get this done dr. Reardon has written two books on it one of them is MSC mesenchymal stem cells clinical evidence leading medicines next Frontier and that one he says is a very boring book but you know it's very very the word you would be very technical whereas his other book stem cell therapy

Rising tide how stem cells are disrupting medicine and transforming lives that book is for the Layman will a person like probably you and I so please welcome Mel Gibson and dr. Neil Riordan The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day Joe Rogan podcast fine

and we live gentleman dr. Neil Reardon my saying that right yes sir and Mel Gibson how are you sir hey how you doing welcome aboard folks first of all thanks for coming here really appreciate it very nice to meet you know it's like you yeah nice to meet you too so this you wanted to come in and talk about stem cells yeah so what is what's your experience been and what is a what's this calling you have here well I was initially it was for my dad who was you know

he was 92 and not any was doing all the old man stuff you know his hip was killing him and he was like he had he had multiple problems I mean I won't get into the whole Litany of complaints but hey you know your engine starts wearing out you got to replace the carburetor and a few other things I took him to the Mayo Clinic great place if I ever get into serious trouble that's where I'm going and they were fantastic there but they were able to say oh you got to leave me here you'll be dead

48 Hours of my vote so they they clocked every problem that he had

everything from you know the prostate to the to the hip to the kidneys to the heart to the lungs you know the whole deal and he you know they stabilize them they said okay we'll do this and we'll do this and they did some you know Orthodox medical procedures all allowed in this country and they were great but you know I still had reservations about him getting hip

it's because he was old and of course just the recovery from a traumatic surgery at that age is like it's a big deal and I thought can I do my brother says why don't you look into these adult stem cells I'm like yeah you know I've heard things about this you know you grow you grow spare mouth on your head end up with an extra asshole or something but I was like okay we'll look into it so we did and of course A buddy of mine who was a

who was a Mayo doc he said stay away from those which doctors down in Panama he said it's like leprosy and banana boats and three-legged dogs you know and I'm like can we call him and so so Brad and I got on the phone to kneel and who else was it yeah it's a doctor pause our medical yeah it was the two of these guys and so they're talking highfalutin terms medical all being medicos you know they sort of they know what a mesenchymal stem

seller mesenchymal how do you say it was think about yet mesenchymal you know and you know cytokine missing camel cytokines you know out of sight out a kind as far as I'm concerned but it's like they give us the wristwatch show over the phone for about an hour and the doctors asking him questions that I can't even think of so when we hang up I said nothing you know translate what does all that mean he's like he translated a few things he says you know it sounds kind of interesting pretty good you know and from being a naysayer he

it's let's call him back and I think we call you right back and we spent another hour on the phone and well to his credit Brad Brad asked for a bunch of literature and I sent him maybe 30 articles and most Physicians wouldn't even look at it but it was all relevant to what Hut had and you know for the heart heart problems and kidney problems and orthopedic problems and he read all the Articles and he read he read that the upside to downside and and and then

then we had a it to his credit then we had a very educated talk after conversation and we cheat and he was he was really you know by this time informed and he just said to me well you know he's 92 he says what the hell you got to lose and I said no nothing will it go so I'm up for it we asked him is he up for it because hell yeah because he's you know they took him into the hospital he was 92 and they said what medications are you on these said I'm not on any and they said you're

92 years old how do you account for not being on any medications this is because I stay away from doctors and hospitals and you know and he didn't have any problems he started to have a rough trip well we took him down there and he got a I think it was like a double dose in the hip I think so where did you have to go this is not legal in America is that what's going on yeah right now their clinical trials going on in the US but it's not broadly available and in Panama they passed a law in 2004 which allowed us a lot

doctors actually to go down there to be able to treat people with using adult stem cells so the bill was actually designed to prohibit the use of embryonic stem cells and in this at the same law they said it's okay to use adult stem cells including those from umbilical cord basically from ethical sources and so in Panama they gave us we have a license from the Ministry of Health to manufacture and use those cells in addition to doing clinical trials there so

so it's one place on the planet where you can get really high quality umbilical cord the this type of cell there are two major kind of stem cells we only work with one kind them as income although we just call it MSC it's a lot easier and so anyway that's that's that's how I think we were actually we actually own apartment in the same building and Panama never met each other and I met we met through his brother finding us on the internet and they go and then they brought him down to get treatment we were quite hesitant to take him you know because the last thing

you want is melt this Mel Gibson's dad to drop dead in your clinic and he wasn't in great shape you know so he wasn't good shape at all but you know as I recall when he got there he was in a wheelchair and like talking a lot and things like that and yeah I'm pretty rough time and and then so we after getting medical clearance for him to actually fly down there and melt them down there privately then we did some IVs on him first in the clinic and then to do

do the hip we need to do that it did some IVs what do you mean so we give the umbilical cord these are these are isolated from the basically the meat of the umbilical cord they're isolated in their grown in our laboratory which is you know ISO 9001 and very high quality and certified by the Ministry of Health the they're grown in the laboratory and they're certified to be you know free of everything and any kind of infectious disease and I went in to clean

rooms and they make you put on like hats and gloves and you know you feel like all frankensteined out and you walk into these cold rooms and you're watching cells divide under the microscope it's kind of miraculous really look at this stuff you'll so intravenous stem cells right intravenous that's correct and what's the benefit of intravenous stem cells like what does that do well the good thing is that this kind of stem cell the mesenchymal stem cells are found throughout your body and their the normally what they do is they modulate your immune system they decrease inflammation and they stimulate regeneration

so and the good thing about them is they tend to home to areas where there is inflammation so intravenously they do a lot of things and but they can home to areas of inflammation and and they really reduce inflammation in the body because they upregulate part of your immune system that that controls the inflammatory process which I can talk more about later but in his case you know his kidneys were in trouble his heart was in trouble and the cells they don't

unlike what we used to think in the early days they don't become anything these kind of this kind of stem cell does not cut become anything in your body but it home stereos of that need repair and it secretes things that stimulates the repair and decrease the inflammation and helps out with the immune system so most the vast majority of what we treat our autoimmune diseases and in how its case we gave him IV so that that he could basically have these things on board secreting the the secreting the side

kinds and the growth factors that are normally secreted and when you're 92 and you have multi-organ failure you're basically Running on Fumes and so you put these days gyro young healthy cells and they secrete these things that kind of restarts everything yeah and so what was his response to this IV treatment wow I you know I could I can wax lyrical about that he's almost a hundred years old

and from pretty bad shape it was like bee stings it was like you got a new lease of life like he got a big dose locally in the hip which fixed all his inflammation and pain and he started walking again and his kidneys were good and his heart he had a prolapsed valves in there and they healed and his cognitive Powers improved his eyesight improved whoa you know and other stuff improved

he would hate me to talk about

but he had two nurses that reported to me it was like holy mackerel wow using it as a towel rack you know well Dan Bilzerian was telling me about intravenous stem cells these and so is Bas Rutten you know Bas Rutten and former UFC heavyweight champion he went down and got some he's had some pretty significant neck injuries and neck fusions and he said he got intravenous stem cells the way he described his like with his Dutch accents like it was like I had lightning coming out of my fingers like

did he go to you yeah did he yeah he said it was phenomenal I mean he said it's one of the most incredible experiences ever had the feeling of a regeneration of energy yeah I reach out to him by email and he in just to see if it would be okay for me to talk about him on here and he said yeah absolutely and you know his his cholesterol dropped all his numbers you know the basically numbers associated with aging all got better

and like you said he felt this tremendous energy for some periods why is this not legal here

well it's considered to be a new drug by the FDA and that's the number one reason there are four countries so far that have approved MSC products there's Canada and New Zealand were the first to go to Canada and get this done well not for only only for certain conditions so in Canada New Zealand they approved bone marrow msc's which are in my mind are not as good as umbilical cord and I explain why

and and then South Korea is approved umbilical cord for knee osteoarthritis only so the cells have to be injected into the knee and then Japan just recently approved the same product that's it's used to treat a very serious acute graph acute graft-versus-host disease in children after they've had a bone marrow transplant now are there peer-reviewed studies or anything that shows the efficacy of this intravenous use of these stem cells yeah there there are hundreds there are hundreds and my book

MSC which is you know you don't want to read it unless you want to go to sleep unless you're looking for something you know it's just it really is purely a research tool we have 800 references and we reference every clinical trial that's ever been done with Ms season human beings and their 800 of them well I've had some great results with stem cells dr. Rodney McGee in Las Vegas shot a bunch into my shoulder I was at the door of surgery I was like my shoulders in pain all the time I can't do a

every time I do something after I sit down for a day and now I have full function I mean great crazy I mean I was literally I mean it's still clicks I've got some weird shit in there and there's probably some stuff floating around in there but as far as like the function of my shoulder and the pain it's like a hundred percent I could do basically everything right right yeah I was 57 58 years old and this is like what four five years ago and both my shoulders torn labrum 's arthritis bone spurs like rotator cuff issues and I went

and I got 10 million cells in each shoulder I said to the documents is going to hurt he says only when it comes out the other side but he put it in and it was you could feel them pierce the capsule and you could feel pressure and I couldn't flap my wings for three days but after that no more problems and this is different than the stem cells that you can get in the United States currently yes yeah what's the difference well the difference she had in from umbilical cords I had

what is it called what's the kind that you can get here in the United States well you can use the only thing that's legally legal in the US at least for now I don't think it's going to be last much longer is from amnion yeah and there's like there's an exemption in the it's a federal federal exemption for the use of amnion for wound covering and a lot of people have now translated now they're using it in joints and things like that but you don't think they're going to be able to do that very much longer I don't believe so why is that because this commissioner after you

mr. has made it very clear that he doesn't like it and they really haven't liked it for quite some time because the the exemption is for one thing and and their doctors are using it for all kinds of other things I don't necessarily agree with I just I just know what's coming down the pike from a regulatory standpoint and and they'll you know they've been some regulatory things that have come out they've gone after clinics and you know I think they've shut down three places and just in the last couple of months and they haven't gone after amnion yet but I think there

building their case for it and unfortunately that's what's going to happen now why would they go after it that's what's confusing if you seen all these benefits and I haven't heard anything about negative results yeah I don't I don't understand it myself to be honest with you it's you know amiens been used clinically in the United States for over a hundred years without serious Adverse Events but I think it's more about the claims that people are making because there haven't been studies for example of amnion you know

a me on tissue injected into a joint and I think that the biggest concern is the claims that are being made and maybe people are being vulnerably you know right I don't know it's not vulnerable to the economics of it I'm not really sure but I know that I just have my finger on the pulse and and that's it seems like they're gone they're gone after fat you know we were the first in the world to use fat Drive stem cells and in 2006 and 2007 we published in on using those two

we trim to arthritis and and multiple sclerosis and then a lot of doctors in the u.s. started doing that now and now there's a new guidance to Industry that came out a few months ago that specifically prohibits using it for for example taking your own fat isolating the stem cells out of it and then injecting them in your bloodstream or even injecting them into a joint so I don't I don't really know the whole the motivation behind it

I know that they very clearly stated that that's not going to fly anymore so the stuff that you did for Mel shoulder what exactly was that that's basically a new drug product it could be considered a new drug product in the US and we are in clinical trials in the u.s. we've already we have two ints for the treatment of duchenne's muscular dystrophy and we're just going to start a spinal cord injury trial University of Miami and and Thomas Jefferson University we got funding from the

Marcus Foundation Bernie Marcus is one of our clients and a scenes all these kids with spinal cord injury getting better and so our product is wait we were able to figure out which cells work which which umbilical cords give cells that are really useful and which ones aren't so we throw away the vast majority of the umbilical cords that we get how can you tell well we had the advantage of having thousands of cases and and I'll get I'll give you an example of one case of a

football coach from from Dallas where I live and he had diagnosed with Ms he was in and out of a wheelchair was on you know basically out and he was out on disability and retired from a very successful three time state champion in Texas that's really saying something and he came down in 2010 for the first treatment and we gave them the treatment and he got much better improved for about 14 months and then he came back again in 2011

Levin and got another treatment improved not as much as the first time he came down 2012 and boom all the symptoms were gone and now he's back coaching and he is completely normal he's probably you know he's a junior he's a bit younger than me but he's probably healthier in man and a guy works out all the time he's out there on the field he doesn't have any heat intolerance didn't have any problems so I wanted to know what's the difference between those cells in 2012 and the ones in 2011 and ones 2010

took other cases similar to that where we'd had Lex less than spectacular result I mean there's still good results but they weren't you know boom and so we took cells from those different lots and we grew them up and then we have them analyzed for 1,200 different molecules that they express and we found that these cells we call them our golden cells because they just seem to work all the time and we found that they under Express certain proteins and then so early on in the culture

process we can select for those and say hey these are golden cells these aren't throw them out so we throw we throw a whole bunch out and we keep the golden cells and we grow those up and thus those are the only cells that we use so that's the big the big difference in the advantage we have is that we've had all those case and we have to look back retrospectively at which cells really work then analyze them from a molecular basis and then now we can select using that so when Mel came in with a shoulder injuries June and MRI first he had one

but we didn't do it there but he had one yet and you do a follow-up MRI we did not know not of him we but you just a lot of we do a lot feels great so you don't even bother us good I'm bother it's like my dad was walking with that pain we write you know his hip was dissolved he was doing okay wow and so are you still no problems with your shoulder Helena good you have that done when was that I had it done twice it was I went 18 months and then I started it started to return the symptoms of discomfort pain and so I did it again

n and like it's been like couple of years almost three years it's fine wow yeah yeah I was really impressed with what I was able to get done but the stuff that I wish I had dr. McGee tell me exactly what it was the stuff that he'd they had done to me about a year and a half ago is no longer available they decided that it was considered a drug and they weren't allowing that form of amniotic stem cell treatment so now there's a

effective but still effective form right so it seems like there's some sort of an effort afoot to diminish this in the United States yeah well I think they just want to control it and they want you know they want it all to go through their deal and and their process but in the meantime a lot of people are probably suffering from some pretty significant injuries that they could deal with with that far easier if this could somehow another be sped up all right absolutely agree with that yeah so when did you start doing this down in Panama we started there in

2006 and just because the regulations right your boy found about the regulations around 2006 and and we went straight there once we found that law the law was passed in 2004 and then we found out about it and we went down there and we built our lab out we were actually functional in 2007 so it's we're having our 10-year anniversary what's it like in Panama never been to Panama is it weird seems like it's cool is it you like it yeah it's cool yeah it's very

it's real friendly with the u.s. I think that's the currencies been there is US dollar so real and it goes further yeah they use u.s. dollars yeah yeah US dollars I mean we kind of ran that joint for you know many years until 1999 when they would give the canal back and that was pretty much the vast majority of the economy so we gave that back to them then they just kept the dollar and it's been you know the explosive growth it looks like Miami now it's out there you know my bill at the building I

live in is 70 stories tall and it's not even the tallest building you know so there's that there are our Clinic is on the 60 third floor of a sixty five story building they're just full of high-rises and of course there's a little bit too much traffic if you get that much concentration people in one place but fantastic restaurants movie theaters mall shopping high-end shopping malls you name it you got everything that you want down there and you know I'd love to spend time I spent a third of my time down there that's friendly and it's relatively you know it's not dangerous wow so you

have people that you that hear about you from United States and they find out about your treatment and then fly down to Panama to get treated yeah that's right not not just the us but the probably the majority of clients are from the US and then we have people from all other places around the globe do you anticipate this moving back to United States in any way or is this something that the hurdles are so steep that it's going to take a long time I think we're going to figure out a way to do it you know I think ultimately we're going to

do it we're you know just having we were the first to get an eye on to treat a human being in the United States with these cells and that was three and a half years ago with the young man with duchenne's muscular dystrophy and my you know my other book that's hopefully interesting to read it starts and finishes with his case where we we traded him in Panama for a number of years and then we just petition FDA and said it's kind of ridiculous for us to do this down there please allow us to do it so we're using the cells that we isolated

expanded in Panama we're using it to treat him and another now a seven-year-old with duchenne's muscular dystrophy so that was the first wedge and then our next wedge is going to be for spinal cord injury and their their number of clinical trials that are going on not not just outside the US or number going on the US the biggest hurdle is that a new drug if you look at the last several years cost two and a half billion dollars to get to Market and

unless we do something a little bit differently on the regulatory side it's going to be it's going to be kind of hard to do this Japan has a law where that went into effect two years ago that basically allows you for allows you to once you demonstrate your product is safe then you can go ahead and start marketing it and then you have seven years in which to demonstrate efficacy so safety first then efficacy and that's resulted in for for new drugs already and less than two years and we have 0 we have 0

so they aren't the only sell product that's that's approved by FDA is umbilical cord blood for the treatment of when you're doing a bone marrow transplant that's the only thing that's approved now is there an argument for that like they just being cautious they want to make sure that there's no adverse side effects that could really be significant yeah I think there is an argument there's an argument that they want to they want to err on the side of safety I mean that's their number one priority is to create create a safe environment for receiving

medicines in the United States I think the model is a little bit there's a little bit Antiquated for the sell products just because they are natural products I mean if you think about it every woman that's ever given birth to a baby they have stem cells from their baby in them these msc's you can find them 50 years later and they're not toxic and we wouldn't exist as a species if there is a inherent toxicity to genetically distinct cells

the cells are 50% mom 50% dad and there you can find them in mom you know for her entire life so the and the Cure Zach was supposed to was supposed to address some of that and we'll see that that went into effect last year and we'll see going forward if that actually does affect things now I know that they're doing some stuff in the United States where they're injecting them into discs this is a new thing to regenerate disc tissue for people that have degenerative disc

disease and bulging discs and disc injuries and as an alternative to either artificial discs or Fusion as a first step before they move into those do you do any of that down there we don't do any right now we're we're working with a hospital that we're actually going to we're going to have a room just for doing backs just just for doing spine because there are studies in the study out of Europe just came out a couple months ago and it showed about 50% of the patients had

they're just become normal on MRI after treatment so it's not every case but I would I'd take a 50/50 shot versus having a having a fusion right yeah so that's the same sort of situation that we're talking about where you're injecting it right into the disks yeah and you know you can in the United States you know we have a clinic in Dallas that the are my clinic where we can do bone marrow right and so we use bone autologous bone marrow and we do disc in the United

and it does help a percentage of people then help everybody and like we were talking before about not just not just the desk but the muscles around the disc so if you take somebody's how to injury my partner dr. McKenna is a orthopedic surgeon and he's been talking about this for years but if you take somebody with a disc injury and you look at the muscles right on the either side of the spine there and you'll find that their withered away or their marbled with fat and that sort of thing you take an elite athlete so many super healthy works out all the time those muscles

muscles they're like they're like ropes it's a filet mignon of the human body right and you look at that and they're just black on MRI but you take somebody that's had a disc injury at any level and you can look and there's marbling in there and it's withered and that sort of thing so one of the things we do in in Southlake and Dallas is we inject the disk but also inject those muscles along the side and that's using your own bone marrow and that still allowed in the United States so the bone marrow draw the concentrate the stem cells and

item in those areas that's something that we were talking about earlier when I showed you the reverse hyper when I showed you that machine and then that that decks back stretcher I think that's a significant part of the injuries that you see with people with disks with back injuries they don't have strong backs right there there the tissue the muscle around the back that protects the spine it's just very weak right right yeah it's fantastic machine I'm gonna get one yeah you gotta get one you to Mel yeah you got a crazy back dude that picture you showed me your back as fucking banana yeah it's like out of a

nursery rhyme hey is that what I had done down in Texas yeah well Mary yeah Mel actually had that done it and yeah in Texas yeah how many treatments have you had well there was that one and then I had the shoulders twice and then I just had them drop it into my vein you know just run around what's that like it's pretty cool I mean you feel a little sleepy for a couple of days and then you feel pretty energetic really sleeping yeah they kind of I think it takes its toll on you

I don't know why you feel sleepy Neil may have an explanation for that yeah well the two three days where you're the cells are getting kind of re-educate the immune system you know like a lot of what we treat our rheumatoid arthritis and multiple sclerosis autoimmune diseases and there's a retraining that's going on in the immune system and so that that involves cytokines and those molecules those peptides are the things that make you feel sick I mean when you get the flu the flu virus doesn't make you sick it's your

he's immune reaction to that that's the stuff that's being thrown off from the from the fight that's what actually makes you feel sick and so when you're activating certain thing parts of the immune system and they're thrown off thanks we make you a little bit tired some people very small percentage have some flu-like symptoms for one day but those are that's kind of like the extent of the the side effects that we typically see but if you look at like yeah you ask why is it meant being done the US for

out of drugs so you put you see them on TV they're advertised basically every hour of every day on almost every station you see these animatics and you know if you have rheumatoid arthritis if you have psoriatic arthritis or this sort of thing these are biologics and these are antibodies to a certain molecule called tnf pmf one of the commanders of the immune system it kind of says hey let's let's cause a bunch of information and make you miserable and so these drugs

basically bind up or stopped up the tnf that's in your body for a period of time that's why I have to get re treated like every month every six months every two months something like that six weeks to months and you have to get retrained and retreated there's a study of rheumatoid arthritis where they it was a hundred seventy two people that were already on on medication for rheumatoid arthritis not adequately controlled they gave them like the equivalent of what a typical dose we give in Panama is like roughly a hundred twenty million cells and

all of them got better all of them symptomatically improved and the cool thing was that that tnf-alpha and another molecule simmer similar to it decreased by 50% and that decreased persisted for eight and a half months I was length of the study so rather than putting an antibody in to to shop up what's being produced aberrant Lie by your immune system you the cells tell your immune system to stop it right the cells

they upregulate a certain immune cell called T regulatory cell that says to the immune system hey quit making tnf-alpha quit making this aisle six stuff and they took 30 patients of the sub-cohort like three months later and gave them another shot the same dose and it dropped their levels another 50% from that Baseline so from from Baseline to post second treatment to treatments to IVs sitting in a chair drop their level 75 percent it just seems like something that would be amazing

for overall repair like just go down there and let your body to get a little dose of healing to figure out what the fuck is wrong with it we'll talk about like we talked about something in Costa Rica we were both there and I had you know they looked at my neck I had a 50% occlusion in the right carotid you know like buildup of stuff like like you don't feel it happening all of a sudden you know all of a sudden when your carotid to shut down their think well you have to eat this

statins right yeah like Crestor Lipitor and you know I looked at what the side effects of those things are terrible yeah and I said I'd rather die than eat those things and they said well you and they try to make you feel guilty for not doing you got kids you got you know like yeah but it's I don't have that stuff now

and I didn't get anyone to go in and remove it and I don't know if I can attribute that to the cells but I got a bunch of cells like twice and that went away now it talk about that for a minute does that sort of yeah we'll just in general your your body that you have a certain number of these cells when you're born and they age just like the rest of your body and they they they perform more poorly as you age right

if you take one of these cells from a newborn like when you were born you could pluck one of these sells out throw it in a Petri dish and let it grow you let it grow for a month it divides roughly every 24 hours or that's the doubling rate so at the end of a month you have a billion cells and then at at if you take from a 35 year old do the same thing doubling times like two days instead of one day and you at the end of the month you have 32,000 cells and you take them from a 65 year old who's relatively healthy and

they divide every 60 hours you get 200 cells at the end of the month so if your problem is a thousand cells or it's 20,000 cells or if it's a million cells you can't get it done past a certain age just because it sells don't have the regenerative capacity and the good thing about the umbilical cord cells is they if you co-culture them with these older people cells with the young cells they don't have to touch each other just a secretions of the young cells will make the young the old cells start dividing faster and behaving younger

and the mitochondria to see pictures in my book you can see a picture of cells from a 65 year old diabetic and without any with without any juice on them and then you put the juice from The Young cells on there and they look like 18 year old msc's with what the functional mitochondria all throughout the cell body rather than all bunched up they have they look how they just I mean as a cell biologist I know what looks healthy and anybody else would you can see just from the picture how

SLI different it is just to be exposed to the to the juice you know you heard of this parabiosis study they did at Harvard where they took young mice and and young mice and they sewed them together with old mice and then the old mice actually got younger and and that mean that use the blood of the young mice and put it in the old mice well they literally showed them together so their bodies together so their bodies together and showed their bloodstreams together oh jeez oh that the bloodstream is mixing and so that you

on some Frankenstein shit yes pretty Frankie what they saw at the end at the end of the study they showed that that the older the older mice got their neurologic system got better the cardiovascular system got better skeletal muscle got better everything got better and and one of the key molecules in there is called GD F XI + GD F XI if we when we look at the secret Tome that's what these cells secrete when they're growing and we pull that out we quantify it in the

top four every time it's gdf 11 from the golden cells so the golden cells are overproducing GF 11 which is one of the key molecules for stimulating regeneration your body so what other autoimmune diseases do you think could be assisted by this well we do a lot of Ms that's probably our number one indication we just finished a clinical trial prospective clinical trial we submit it for publication it should be it should be coming out in the next month or so and and

and statistically significantly the these patients improved dramatically and as far as side effect profile is it was highly minimal I mean feel few headaches and few few flu-like symptoms things like that how many people this was with 20 people and one of the one of the individuals actually is clinically is perfect and all of his Legions went away and we only did one treatment with these typically with Ms it's more refractory than rheumatoid arthritis rheumatoid arthritis usually after one

treatment people get a ton of benefit with Ms they usually see after two or three treatments that they really they see the most benefit we only did one treatment in this in this trial but one gentleman had three lesions in his brain all three Legions completely disappeared so Ms is a big thing rheumatoid arthritis is that is a big thing and I tell you their stories in the not stories but you know people talking about their responses and it's pretty incredible there's one lady that her

of the physics PhD physicist he carried on working just so she could afford just so she could have insurance to afford the medications which are around a hundred grand a year for her to get treated for rheumatoid arthritis and she came down about it'll be it's a little over three years ago November and she hasn't been on any medication since she actually started walking around the mall when she was in Panama and then when she got home she's completely you know pain-free and she's been paying free for three years and her husband

finally retired because he didn't care about you know having the insurance to pay for these very expensive drugs that she was taken so Ms rheumatoid arthritis lupus we don't we don't have a lupus protocol there's there's a group in China that's that's published six really good papers on Lupus it's very very effective in their trials we haven't done it yet and and then autism you know it's not considered an autoimmune disease but we have a trial we just completed our autism trial

with 3333 enrollees with very good results many many of those kids became not autistic after treatment that's confusing to me because you're talking about people that are young right so why would it have such a benefit benefit for them well I wrote an article in 2007 about why these cells should be good for autism and and basically it it's and it's the most downloaded article this journals ever had and

it's something like 75,000 people have downloaded a scientific journal article which really doesn't happen very often but kids people with Autism have inflammatory things going on in their body a lot of times in the gut there are in the in the in the at the end of the small intestine there are these inflammatory nodules that look a lot like Crohn's disease and they secrete these this inflammation that thing goes to the brain and Flames of white matter of the brain the white matter of brain swelling

those decreases the blood flow to the brain all that sinner you know intertwined and then just a few years ago there was a study that came out and this is what this is what allowed us to go forward with our clinical trial they found that their the to inflammatory molecules that are MDC in Tark and they're perfectly correlate with the severity of symptoms of autism and so we measured not only those two but another 30 some biomarkers we measure we did quantitative EEG

jeez we did a lot of standardized scoring stores a scoring with a neurologist that that read them you know before treatment during treatment after treatment so I believe a lot of the problems with autism have stem from the inflammatory status and these cells are definitely an inflammatory yeah they've had some benefit with changing the diet and changing the gut biome of kids with autism they've made some benefits for

out and which they believe is also connected to inflammation yeah absolutely if your if your immune system is freaking out every time you eat a piece of bread and that and that immune systems thrown out molecules that are swallowing your brain and in flaming your brain then it makes complete sense and yeah you know I think in general the the people with Autism that do the best are the ones that get that address before they come down you know there's some other doctors that do functional medicine they look at their diet

that they look at see if they have any heavy metals and that sort of thing and the ones that just aren't slam dunk do the best I've been cleaned up before they come down wow so what about heart disease you were saying you were talking about people that have heart issues yeah we have a number of patients with heart failure that have responded quite well failure heart failure so heart attack need of a transplant that kind of thing yeah yeah on transplant lists and that's one thing yeah sorry I have a friend who's on a transplant list yeah right so there are

kinds of heart failure and so but the other thing interesting about heart failures of cells don't need to go to the heart and to actually become new heart cells and that sort of thing it's actually the secretions of the cells like I said before there was there was a study at University of Buffalo where they took they injected cells IV in a hamster model of heart failure and and then they looked in the in the heart and there are very few cells but the heart failure got better and then they said hey let's inject listen Jack those same cells these are m

messy umbilical embassies inject them into the into the hamstring muscle and they demonstrated that none of the cells came out of hamstring muscle and yet the heart failure at better so then they took just the juice the liquid that the cells secrete and they start simulated the amount of juice that the cells would have produced in the body and just injected the Jews and the heart failure at better so it's really the secretions of the cells stimulating the natural repair augmenting the natural repair process of the body that has

been stretched to its limit you know if you have a 65 year-old those cells are not dividing very well this the juice can help the cells divide faster and produce more repair molecules and make it better so do you think that it could take someone who's on a heart transplant list and literally fix our heart I've seen it happen time and again wow and there there there there are clinical trials using similar cell types that also have demonstrated that you know there's there's a molecule called BMP which is high in heart failure the BMP came down in every single case

Ace the injection ejection fraction which measures kind of like the efficiency how much how much blood your heart's pumping on each stroke went up and every single patient you know I think art in the book the craziest case was a gringo who was down in Costa Rica and and he he was all right I don't know he's probably 20 25 percent routinely but he got a viral disease or something else he was 11% ejection fraction normal is about 60 and they the right

the regular Hospital who worked a lot with us using with our spinal cord patients and seeing results seem people walking again they they just said you can't get on a plane you're at 3,700 feet if you get on a plane you'll be dead you might as well as go see these guys over at stem cell place and see if anything can happen and I think his cases in the book as well but he went from my don't 11 to 42 or something like that but he wasn't the first case the first case was a Doctor Who's A friend of

Georgie's friend dr. pause or medical director who had congenital so his mother had died of heart failure his sister had died his brother had died and he was you know not even 50 years old and his ejection fraction was you know hovering around 30% and a lot of people at United Van stage you're not even going to get on the list because if you if you're if you're a 50 or 60 year old and there's a 20 year old ahead of you 20 year olds

a win and so he begged and begged to come down he was our first patient we didn't really want to take him because we didn't know what was going to happen because nobody's ever done it and we treated him and he went back and he had his had a ejection fraction you know echocardiogram and it was 52% and then the doctor didn't believe it so he did read it a month later it was 55% so you know it's not I don't think it's for every case means have people with like a super bad heart attack and there's not enough to

repair and you really need a heart transplant but I think I think you're going to see that it's ultimately I think in 20 years are probably going to see standard of care for diseases chronic diseases like any chronic degenerative disease for which there is no good treatment you're going to see standard of care is going to be young healthy mesenchymal stem cells because if you look at the root cause I got a question a lot how is it how is it these things work for so many things well when the

cause is a lack of or dysfunction of those cells then it makes sense that replenishing those are restoring them with young healthy ones could be a useful treatment Mel this is so important to you that you wanted to come on and talk about this he wanted to let people know about this shit yeah I think it's amazing and it seems a crime to me that you know it isn't easier to do in this country where you know we're an advanced country I mean they should look a little harder at it and it's a mystery to me why it isn't the case but you know hey

if there are places where one can go and get some health it's good I mean I know another gal she's a good friend of mine she tore her shoulders up because she was like an athlete and she had her shoulders down and she got some dropped into her and it actually helped greatly with an autoimmune disorder that she had and then she was able to have kids

it was that kind of thing you know yeah there's some really good animal data showing that you can inject these cells and you can take ovarian failure and reverse it and in her case she she had an autoimmune disease and she was in unable to have children told that from a very young age and after treatment she got pregnant pretty quickly this sounds almost too good to be true this is almost like skeptical people that are listening to this right now probably like what this fucking shit curious

yeah it sounds like the old spook her on the corner good for moles holes and pimples under 1000 but you've got studies he mean you've got real trials to back this up and you've got a host of patients that are healed up and and healthy yeah yeah I only said I don't know nothing wrong with me I want to go down there get shot up well if you see a 92 year old man who is about ready to kick the bucket and he's almost a hundred he's going to celebrate 100 years in August so and it's incredible he's better off than he was

was let me tell you yeah this young guy with the Shen's muscular dystrophy you know the cells don't last forever this is also an important point with the Shen's it's a it's a it's a genetic defect so they're missing a protein and these cells go in this in animal models these cells you give them to animal they go into the muscle and then they they start secreting that molecule that they're missing but they only last for about four five six months and then then they start maturing and then the immune system clears them it's a real important point

you don't have that with embryonic stem cells because they cause tumors and things like that and the great thing about these cells they don't cause tumors because they differentiate they don't want to be a baby they're just there to do their job which is to keep homeostasis keep keep the immune system controlled can you know help with Regeneration all that sort of thing I talked about that but the embryonic stuff because I find this interesting the embryonic step is full of weird anomalies and stuff right yeah you know we wrote We a few of us got together and wrote an article

when they finally put the clamp on the last embryonic stem cell treatment and we've been saying for years that embryonic stem cells are going to work because they want to become babies their number one problem is they want to become babies they don't want it that these cells the cells that we start with they don't want to become babies the babies already born these are their mature their mesenchymal and and that's what they are and that's they're never going to be anything else whereas the embryonic stem cells the biggest problem with them is they always form tumors they form teratomas and so in order for

and then the functional you have to grow them out and if you want them to have MSC like qualities you have to force them to become msc's and then you have to make darn sure that there aren't any if only takes one if there's one left then it's going to form a tumor so that was the big problem that the expense it was three four hundred thousand dollars a dose just to make sure that they didn't have one in them and then they weren't as beneficial and they've been monkeyed with in the lab from when they were embryonic and then converted into

inverted and converting converted and then grown up in huge numbers and so they were monkeyed with and the these cells you don't have to monkey with it they just do it naturally you just take them out you digest them put them in a nutrient broth and the right temperature and humidity and oxygen levels and they just grow and so the you know the we wrote an article about embryonic stem cells that we call it the the king is the king is dead long live the king because you know the California

the California voters knee-jerk three billion dollars towards an embryonic stem cell work and you know against the bush administration's restriction of spending money on embryonic stem cell research it wasn't banned as most people said all they said was we're not going to use taxpayer money Federal taxpayer money to go towards that and what people heard was they don't want they don't want progress well what's happened is They At Last count I think they spent you know

two two and three-quarter billion dollars I got 250 million dollars left and guess what they're studying now adult stem cells they're studying umbilical cord stem cells there's studying his income O stem cells they've completely cut out everything on the embryonic side because it just took that long there is so much misinformation out there and and now thank God it's gone and and we regain our sanity but we blew blew a lot of dough on on the whole embryonic thing yeah

it was a lot of money and we paid as taxpayers in California for that you know because people were misinformed so if a person is listening to you right now and they've got some issues what's the first step they should take well I say guys got a blown knee and is thinking about getting surgery yeah well they could go you know our website is sell medicine CLL madison.com for Panama if you know if there's if it's something that can be addressed with bone marrow in the

SRM Eye Clinic.com that's our thought the bone marrows is not as effective well it can be it's hard to say because everybody's bone marrows different your age is different you know if you're 85 years old even if you're 65 years old and you're a smoker or you're diabetic I don't think it's worth typically using your bone marrow because it's just not going to do a lot but younger younger people healthier people a lot of times you can you know when it's in a joint because that's the only thing

thing we can do in the u.s. is orthopedics sorry but if it's an orthopedic problem then you know they could check out see if they could you know we could do something for him in Dallas if it's not orthopedic and you need systemic treatment for autoimmune disease if you have a spinal cord injury or Autism any of those conditions and they go to sell medicine CLL medicine.com and that's where we have there's all the information there and they can fill out applications doctors get back with them and get in the system now how difficult is it to go

down to Panama and get treatment like how do you schedule that well that's that's all taken care of there's a whole team of people that do that the only thing is you need a passport and there's no Visa required anything like how long is the flight from LA it's six hours wife Ari so it's like chimps like going to Miami it's like two hours yeah it's actually two little over two hours from Miami so because it's because it's waste it's almost due south of Atlanta it's closer to New York right sort of yeah it's five five four and a half five

New York probably something like that so sell medicine.com they go their contact you now do they need to have some sort of a consultation with a local doctor an MRI or anything like that before they go to see you oh yeah they need to have a diagnosis from physician for what they have and then you know that we have a team of doctors there and they'll talk to them and see what they need if they need any other information they need another you know x-rays or MRIs or whatever they'll sort all that out this is all fascinating stuff man and I never thought about going to Panama until about an hour ago

hahaha now I'm thinking of taking a trip

yeah six hours it's worth it yeah I just want to feel the intravenous stuff I want to feel with Bas Rutten was talking about the lightning bolts coming off my finger he's a little dramatic yeah he's definitely dramatic I wouldn't say that to his face I would with a smile only but yeah he's when you treated him he was going through some pretty significant issues with his neck yeah yeah what benefits did he find off of that well you know I don't think for his neck it

structurally we weren't able to get the cells there and I don't know if there's enough left you know it's huge all people yeah I mean it's several Fusion if there's nothing if there's nothing structurally to you know to do anything but a lot of people talk about you know hair loss and these cells work for hair loss and yeah they do pretty good job but you can't grow you can't grow grass on concrete you know Ryan you can't you can't stimulate the nerve to regrow that there's no not even a thread left right he didn't get I don't believe you got any

it from his as accident problem but he you know the the metabolic benefits were fantastic for him and energy-wise and things like that yeah his one of one of his issues is that he has some atrophy on one of his arms because his nerves and his neck were being pinched and for a long time and he didn't address it quick enough and it got to the point where his armor shrinking right yeah and that's one of the reasons why I went down there did he experience any benefit from that I don't believe he did no no that's a tough one right a

well especially really long time out you know for spot for like for spinal cord injury we did a we did a cohort analysis and and basically if they're within one year of injury a hundred percent of a hundred percent of the patients reached had restoration of some neurologic function if it was between one and two years is 82% it was after two years it was 50% so the longer it is in the in and also the older you are the less if you have left you know the

in these cells work for spinal cord injuries they don't become spine they don't become nerves or anything like that but the spinal cord is one of the most replete areas of the body when it comes to blood vessels they're very they're just barely enough blood vessels to keep it alive in your livered on the other hand has just tons of blood vessels in it and your liver you know you can cut 80% of your liver out and it will regrow itself with your spinal cord just kind of Ding A little bit and it won't repair itself that's because there are no blood vessels and therefore there are no MSC are

few msc's so Ike 150th the number of msc's reside in your spinal cord because we built this wonderful cage around it to protect it and so all we're doing is we shoot the cells in there we also give them IV and the cells secrete the things that are necessary for the for the spinal cord to regenerate itself but the longer it is from injury the more scarring there is and all that sort of thing the less benefit you're going to see so do you anticipate a time where they'll be able to regenerate

ER 8 spinal tissue or someone has got a spinal cord injury where they have partial or some sort of paralysis when they could be able to regenerate that I do and I and we have many cases that it's already happened really yeah like what cases well you know Juan Carlos Maria is a commercial pilot from from Costa Rica and he was one day flying as a National Geographic photographer around in his private plane and they pancake and both of them got spinal cord injuries JC you say pancake team in crashed

crash a plane yeah yeah they were up on a volcano and it's like some crazy winds and stuff and it just it just dropped out of the sky and landed on the ground and and he had he had no function and no no sensation below the injury basically from his belly button down had no erectile function no bowel function bladder function any of that stuff and you know the first time we treated him and how you treated him we're doing a my B cells and intrathecal so

oh into the spinal fluid so the first the first round of treatments after that his biggest he had he described as like a 10 out of 10 Pain Scale so he had this neuropathic pain that was just like he was shoveling down narcotics like nobody's business and he after the first treatment he didn't get any restoration of function or anything but his pain dropped from a 10 to a 3 and so he got off the narcotics then the second time we treated him he got his

flag back and he could move it and how long after the treatment okay we started treating him six months and three days after his accident and then so he got the the first round of treatments was in you know the first month and it was about three months later we did the second round the three months later he got his right leg back and then three months later she was over about a year at 15-month period probably in total he basically got everything back you got erectile function got bowel bladder all that sort of thing and you know I just I just had dinner with him the other night

Costa Rica and he can walk in here and he got his commercial pilot's license back and you know he started a new business and you know he has a hundred percent he's I would say a hundred percent because he does have a bit of a limp but he broke his leg when he was four wheeling so Maniac they can't get enough this is this before or after the accident he broke a leg no so yeah so we got all better and then he was perfectly fine

he goes out and four-wheeling and breaks his leg so yeah so he was a hundred percent then he fucked himself up again yeah so he left a little bit but but most people don't know that he ever had a spinal cord injury you know that's incredible so you feel like with conventional treatment that guy would still be in a wheelchair yeah absolutely yeah I mean he was the he made zero progress so that when we were designing the study at my that we're doing at Miami that's being funded by the Marcus people there to neurosurgeons that are on that

so we wanted to okay we're discussing what at what at what time point you accept them and these these very prominent neurosurgeon said let's do six months because at six months you got 98 to 99% back everything you're going to have so let's do patients their subjects that are from six months to two years and so that's the those are the inclusion criteria that's the timing that we're going to do for this study at Miami this is phenomenal so is that study published online is there anything where this case rather published online

this post online absolute it's represent my book it's it's fun you have to yeah it was referencing both books but in the spinal cord chapter so it's stem cell therapy Rising tide is the one that it's written for the layperson we go that it that it so it's referencing there and the whole story about Juan Carlos and his you know his journey and you know how he got started and everything's in there as well as a reference to the published article that's in a scientific journal

about his case and then MSC is the one that you read if you want to go to sleep or if you're a super nerd exactly exactly and sell medicine.com that's the that's the website yep c e LL madison.com listen man this is fantastic stuff and I mean I'm very intrigued and I really hope people that have issues can reach out to you and try to see if you can get some treatment and if I would love to hear back from them I mean what what happened with you and what happened with your dad is just incredible and the stuff that I've experiencing the night

it seems like it's not nearly as potent as the stuff that you're using down there and I've had some pretty dramatic results yeah so it's incredible stuff cool T TJ Dillashaw says hi you know TJ yeah he came down there and yeah it came down here like three months before the last fight and he got his belt back he's really happy done well yeah he told me I could tell you everything he's got he got IVs and he got his shoulder done because he was his shoulder was really bothering him so that was that was it and he and he went down to Panama to get all that done yeah

yeah how'd you find out about him or how did he find out rather when you frankly I don't know maybe Boz or somebody else in that we've had a few MMA guys and I asked them in Boz Boz and he both said that is okay to talk about it I'm going down there yeah well listen man was a real treat real pleasure I'm so fascinated about this stuff because of my own personal experience with the you know the limited amount of stem cell treatment that I've gotten but I've had great results I had a knee injury that was bother me forever I don't feel it at all anymore

the shoulder does bother me at all anymore I mean it's it's pretty amazing stuff and from what you're saying I'm getting a very watered-down not nearly as potent version of what you have in Panama yeah wow okay so sell medicine.com yes sir and then the books again our MSC so that word again Meza well as income of stem cells thinkable stem cells and stem cell therapy a rising tide Mel Gibson thank you very much thank you this man in here appreciate it all right

fuckers read into this look it up get healthy thank you everybody for tuning to the podcast and thank you to our sponsors thank you to movement watches get 15% off today with free shipping and free returns by going to MVM t.com forward slash Rogan sweet watches for a fraction of what you would pay if you bought them in a department store MVM t.com forward slash Rogan go there get 15%

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fighter that never fought in the UFC and he's retired now which is kind of fucked then we will have the Great and Powerful Whitney Cummings she'll be on the champ Rose namajunas one of the most interesting characters in the world of MMA one of the sweetest nicest people you probably ever meet was also a fucking straight up killer Michael Shermer the fame skeptic will be here next week we got a lot of happen in folks we got a lot happening so we will see you then thanks for everything priest

it you guys and gals and non-binary folks stop by big kiss wow