#540 - Steven Rinella

Aug 26, 2014

Steven Rinella is an outdoorsman, author, and television host. He currently hosts MeatEater on the Sportsman Channel.

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the noise that's the noise that's the night Jamie's got a much more subtle than Brian's fucking monkey noises hey everybody what the fuck's going on how you Livin huh this episode of the podcast is brought to you by Blue Apron Blue Apron is been responsible for at least three meals that I have every week now and other folks in my house heated to Blue Apron is this new deal and this is what they do they send you all the ingredients in the exact portions for excellent meals along with detailed instructions recipe instructions with photographs so it's like totally idiot-proof I've cooked a bunch of different stuff now I made these awesome chicken skewers the other day and these stuffed peppers and they were like a spicy pepper to is like this bell pepper but it was kind of spicy but really good like interesting Mexican ingredients in it so what I'm getting at is they're not it's not bland food it's healthy they range between

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Bryan Callen was going to try to make it here today all right buddy he had some podcasts he schedule in advance I'm trying to get him to cancel but he couldn't he's too bad but he's very excited to come with us to Alaska that should be a nice silly trip man I'm looking I'm excited about that trip it really is when you get up into that want to say that when you get up into the Alpine Zone like the above Timberline in Southeast Alaska it really like you know it's cooler looking than like the Ewok forest mmm you know I mean it just is amazing because you have this like you go from old-growth stuff where you could like the three of us could all stand around joined hand to hand and you can reach around these trees you know wow and you climb a little higher and it's like boom it's just like wide open and there's really nothing like it and you can't you just you can't fathom the beauty of it you know well I've seen it on your show it's all same place where you went hunting black-tailed deer right when you land on a float plane and then you go up into the

the into the upper regions yeah that was where the fog rolled in and you had that nice deer in your scope and yeah wait you know that that time when I was up there there was a wind storm the wind was so bad it made the front page news in town and 72 that they they kept saying like 70 some mile an hour winds blew down a bunch of foam poles the next day a pilot came up to kind of fly over to see if we're still alive and everything you know just kind of cruise around check it was a that's the thing is the weather so when we go on this trip we could either just get we can either have the worst time of the best time depending you know I mean just depending on the weather it can be so just uncomfortable and miserable or it can be just beautiful and there's places back in there you know principles island is huge it's the but I think by some definitions either the second or the third or fourth biggest island we have was interesting about it that island is that has you know half the sir I think it's half the surface area as Hawaii

the Big Island Hawaii has like three times the coastline whoa just you know it's just a crazy like fjords and inlets and bathe but there are places in this island that you can't really there's no Road system in a lot and a lot and a lot of it and there's places you can't fly to because there's no Lakes to land and it's really hard to walk there so sometimes you're looking at there's mountains there and you're like I guarantee that no one you know you can't guarantee about me like 400 years it's probably no one has stepped foot on that thing because you really had we'd have to get to one place and you have to get a boat and carry it through and go across to another place and then climb up well it'd be mostly just climb like you just when you if you fly over some of those mountaintops you look around this is no way

I just know that no one's been there unless you can land unless you can land up there on a lake you know will they not will land in the spot

and I wanted to walk from there and I think we will walk up into stuff that that people have walked there I mean there's always some crazy thing you didn't know about but we're going to walk into some stuff or people just have not walked well you can stand around places there and say like you know I feel very certain that I'm like deathly the first guy to ever have his feet set and right here I can't discount something that happened you know hundreds and hundreds of years ago but there's just some wild stuff in there wow it's you know right now I got mixed feelings about to but they just the forest service up there just announced they're going to be opening up cut up there 6,000 Acres old-growth water clear Cuts yeah wow that's kind of fucked up dude I understand every single I understand every single argument for and against understand every single argument what for what's the good aspect of it economics I mean that's like you used to have a thriving logging industry based around tongass you know

tongass National Forest so and it's just atrophied right so it's a job creation thing you know I mean that that's the for the forage is people that live there having access to good paying job the downside is we have just a miniscule fraction of old-growth left you know yeah it's just I don't see why anybody would allow that I mean I understand the economic thing but I always feel like there's got to be another way to make money what's weird to is tongass just said recently that over the next decade they're looking to phase out old growth logging at the same time that they are announcing and pushing forward with plans to do a big 6,000 acre clear-cut sort of sort of acknowledging on one hand they want to get out of it or need to get out of it or can see into the future the need to get out of it and on the other hand being like but we'll have one last hoorah I got one last party and you're dealing with how old do you think these trees are

I mean these you know there's the I can't speak specifically to that particular area but I mean there's like Doug Firs that are much older than the birth of this nation out there and Cedars I mean you know the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years old that's huge giant Tree Top to chop them down and make what it's sad man but you know he / like everything gets so weirdly we've talked about this before on the show how things it's so convoluted like one of the big just to bring it back to us going on a hunt for sick of black-tail deer like they'll stick a black-tail deer when we're going to look for him we're going to be looking for him up in the Alpine which they'll be leaving so they'll be leaving around the time we're going there that stuff still has snow like we're going to be looking for deer will still have snow in June okay then it melts off and there's long days and it turns like beautiful and it gets very vibrant and green there's all kinds of succulents and dear come up out of the Timber to feed around in there and then in October it snows so you have like a couple snow free months in October

it's Knowles in those derail all split traditionally what those deer want to do is they want to go down and spend the winter down in Old growth because the old-growth canopy allows for kind of a you know snow-free sheltered under story whether you know down on the down on the ground and they'll hang out in that old growth Timber so an argument against the cut would be that we need it for deer and a further argument would be the reason we need to protect deer habitat is because we need to protect the Wolves out there and some people right now are trying to make a push to say that the wolves in the Alexander archipelago of which Prince of Wales island is a part that those wolves are genetically extinct and they therefore deserve

level of protection like their own level of protection that they would get Endangered Species Act protection out on these islands when other people are arguing it's just the same Wolfman I mean it's like you got wolves all over it does like that population doesn't deserve any specific thing so it winds up being that people who might be pushing against the timber sale might wind up also be angling for protecting wolves out there from hunting and trapping and then you're left to be like well I'm not really comfortable the timber sale but I'm not really comfortable with you using biological lumping and splitting in order to like close down certain sorts of hunting season so it winds up being that all your friends aren't necessary know like the enemies of your enemies aren't necessarily your friends wow anyway anyways we're going into that area and we're gonna hunt for Blacktail deer and there's a health is a good healthy population you know it's still good even a non-resident you're allowed to Bucks

and do they do they have bear up there is it black bear yeah but the thing about the Bears you'll see some bear droppings or bear scat or bear shit here and there but those Bears out there are so tuned in on the salmon runs that they really don't spend a lot of time I think some move through but they really don't spend a lot of time feeding in those areas because they're down 2,000 feet Timberline there's like 1,800 2,000 feet they're down two thousand feet lower in the river mouth feeding on salmon and we and we like to have you know that image of the bear grabbing a salmon out and he's all silver and shiny and healthy and floppy but long after the runs are kind of done they're down they're just they're down they're just feeding on Rotten fish laying around I watch wolves they're eating dead say I watch five rules one time eating dead salmon that were the consistency of pudding whoa just mopping it up they must have unbelievable Stomach back man

you can imagine so there's not a lot of bears up there you know there's a lot of you see some berries around but I think that so many the Bears are focused on that stuff one thing you find some people say and in those islands in Southeast Alaska do they're like they tend to be either a black bear island or Grizzly Island and it just and it changes so you be on one Island and it's black bears another Islands Grizzlies and it's sort of this weird phenomenon that they don't readily mix you get an interior areas on the mainland where you have Grizzlies and black bears coexist oftentimes the Grizzlies will dominate the salmon streams and you'll have more black bears up high so you could be standing on a mountain a couple thousand feet above sea level and it's just black bears everywhere on top of the mountain feeding on blueberries and you're looking down it primo salmon streams but just big brown bears big Grizzlies down there and they kind of hoard the spot in the black bears don't get in there they just can't they let you know there's their kind of enemies yeah they'll eat

to right they'll either Grizzlies yeah the the place that I was up in Alberta we went bear hunting they take carcasses after they cut the back straps off in the hams they'll take like the body cavity and they leave it in certain areas where they'll Grizzlies are to keep the Grizzlies coming over there right yeah because they don't want the Grizzlies coming to the the other baits the Bates they have out for the black pair of no kid do they have to ban in that belt because it's just too sketchy they have some photos some track camera trap photos of these fucking enormous Grizzlies wandering stand up on black bears yeah I got a buddy who saw one time he witnessed a Grizzly kill a black bear disemboweled and eat its liver whoa yeah and there's a there's a very well-regarded hunting guide in Alaska has written some good hunting books about Alaska named Tony Ross and I was reading his book on Hunting Kodiak he's got he's got a book on Hunting brown bears and Grizzlies in Alaska and live is experiences around Kodiak and the Alaska Peninsula and he was saying he's never seen and

just to back up for a minute on Kodiak a see like if you map out a bears diet okay AB Arab or bear male Brown Bear Grizzly you know brown bears on Kodiak if you map out his annual diet what he's tuned into in the spring are brown bear cubs yeah he's like nails he's like wakes up and he's hunting brown bear cubs and that's a fucked up is it sniffing sniffing part of his diet but what Tony Ross has said is all these years of guiding he's never seen where when you kill a big mature bore brown bear he's never seen where another brown bear will come and scavenge that carcass wow they'll skit they even with the things skinned out and butchered right they recognized through smell or whatever they will not mess with that thing that's weird he says black and his guys seen oh yeah and this guy's seen a lot but he's saying nothing will touch those big boars the body on them too scared of I just I don't know even with it's something about them the smell

something they just know that they don't want anything to do with it wow when we were in Alberta one of the guys shot a bear late at night and they didn't want to retrieve it because it was too many bears in the area it was just getting sketchy they shot the bear like right at the moment we're was getting dark out and the bear ran off and they said we'll come back in the morning so they came back in the morning and a big boar was eating the other black bear oh really so they have they were taking selfies like smiling while they're there was a bear behind them eating a bear carcass the have new body mind where he got one and Trail he shot one of his bow and tracked the morning and head it was just gone I've been consumed so crazy yeah yeah that's that's the wild man when we were up there one of the Bears one of the boers had attacked a sow killed its cub and left half the Cubs body and then the South came back and finished it off she ate her own baby really yeah she had her own baby in front of them while they were in the in the stand I've heard competing theories

out that that on one hand the board just is doing because he wants to eat but there seems to be this up side where there's an additional upside besides caloric intake that a boar will kill a sow's Cubs and she'll come back into estrus yeah so when a salad like Assad is going to she'll have her her Cubs in the den in february/march okay there's little hairless it has shown even know she had them proud to cease hairless little things and she'll take care of them she'll emerge from her Den but he's a little fur balls she'll stay with him all summer long she'll Den with them again

she'll come out again and usually at some point that summer she might get rid of them and so she's going to be off like she won't cycle again

potentially for two years so if a boar has in his area he hangs out he's got a half dozen females apparently it's worth the risk to him that he might be I'm talking in a genetic sense it's worth the risk to him that he might be killing his own offspring which probably has no idea whether it is or not kill his own offspring Offspring in order to have that female go back into a store and then breeder or whatever kind of calculation he's probably not me obviously he's not making that calculation he's probably just going like I'm hungry but an added benefit of it is apparently he get he might double back around and you know get her again make love to the woman whose children he consumed well Dolphins actually have a strategy against that because one of the things that people a lot of people are not aware we think of dolphins being really sweet and kind and they're nice to people but Dolphins they eat their own babies

and all that they don't eat their own babies but the dolphin babies and what a male dolphin finds a female that he has never had sex with and she has babies they'll oftentimes kill the babies and they'll kill the babies to force a woman to back to breeding again because she'll go on a seven-year cycle so when a female dolphin has a baby she will not breathe again for seven years while that baby is being raised and growing legs they put a huge investment apparent so the strategy for female dolphins is they are sluts and they fuck as many dolphins as they can so that when the mail comes around he sees her with the baby's like that might be my fucking kid all right I'm not going to kill that kid that's what keeps them from killing the the fear of babies really want because they're thinking they mean they're really intelligent animals they have a cerebral cortex it's 40% larger than a human beings and a matter of fact anybody's listening this check out Radiolab Radiolab as an amazing podcast the one that's on out this week it's called hello and it's all about John Lilly and John

Willie's work with interspecies communication with okay you know who John Lilly was he was a no no I don't know that name Maniac crazy man and these other scientists that worked with him actually wound up taking his research and bring it to some new place because Lily he was also the inventor of the isolation tank he created a sensory deprivation tank because he was he was a Pioneer you're a fan of your huge fan Lily would take acid and set up a tank next to the Dolphins and he would take acid going the isolation tank and try to communicate with the dolphins so while the Dolphins would like make all these weird noises he would like try to decipher those while he was on acid in his tank and he eventually went off the deep end with like really getting like heavily heavily into ketamine and all these weird tranquilizers and drugs and became actually addicted to ketamine and that's when he lost all his funding nobody wanted to have anything to do with them when it came to this Dolphin Research anymore because they knew that he

when that and one of the women that he had hired to live with a dolphin they had like an apartment setup where it was under water like was essentially to her it was like waist high and water and she had a dolphin that she lived with for like six months in this and she wound up like jerking the dolphin off there because the dolphin would like Humper leg all the time and be really distracting as he was a young dolphin such as look I mean just take care of that for you and she would just jerk this dolphin off and then you know to her it was like look he's got an issue and it's getting in the way of work so I'll just take care of that but everybody else is like whoa whoa whoa whoa you're doing scientific research by jerking off Dolphins like a tack yeah I can see it yeah she might need a cup mr. yeah herself but the the podcast sort of focuses on Dolphin communication and they're there the difficulty that they have like they know that the Dolphins want to communicate with them but they have that blowhole and that's how they make their noise so it's really hard for them to make

is that mimic human noises because they don't really have the ability to make M's and T's and all these dad's kind of slightly different apparatus so in the in the podcasts you hear her talking to the dolphin and the dolphin trying to imitate what she's saying it's crazy right it's amazing you get into like when you get into animal communication is so much of it becomes

semantical or an argument of semantics very say like where were the only thing with language and people like well you know actually XY and Z has some okay what I mean we're dealing with complex language any big well you know some animals are actually able to convey you know fairly complex things like there's you know a predator above us and like well what I mean is you do they don't have syntax right you know and you kind of like why not run away it's like the verdicts still out man there's some like animals do convey some complicated stuff and my two brothers are ecologist you know like PhD scientists and they kind of hate the conversation you know because they really resist not resistant to but

they have a hard time with trying to use our terminology and use our language to describe what animals are up to right you know like to say for for you to say that the dolphin eats the bay or doesn't want to eat the baby because it might be his baby someone might argue that that animal probably has no comprehension of that or even that they are not able to equate

sex with reproduction hmm they're so intelligent though I don't know how they wouldn't be able to equate I don't I don't either I don't think that shortly this all the time because I really should have said killed they kill yeah I don't think they eat them they might they really ran but they kill him they bite him you know I struggled this stuff all the time because

you know as a hunter

I'm always weighing out like what is it like what are the things that rafter and what are their capabilities you know I don't want to fall into some trap right just act like oh that's just like corn with legs you know so I do I am curious all the time about like the capabilities of animals and I tend to be open to the idea that there's

there's like different sets of experiences that different animals have you know there's some have more perhaps more of an awareness than others yeah you know there's like a there's a hierarchy if you will and I think that the consensus is that dolphins are pretty high on that hierarchy yeah dolphins and orcas of course orcas are very high up on that they and they eat dolphins that's what's really fucked up you know I've been going through this with my kid man he we just moved to the Pacific Northwest and so I keep talking to my kid about everything's got a killer whale on it you know like like stores grocery stores whatever just like a common Motif and like I tell me that's a killer whales the killer whale and I know that a lot of people like to call him orcas you know an orc is some Greek word I think just means Satish and just means whale it's a pretty generic term

and some people say that killer whale killer whales use be called whale Killers yeah and whale killer became killer whale so I'm always telling my kid all its killer whale and one day my kid comes home and he just mad and hell because he learned that it's not a killer whale it's Orca you know and I'm like listen man I know what I like I know what the person who told you that is trying to tell you and I already know that but I told you killer whale not because I wasn't aware because I was trying to circumvent you know I was trying to do a to come back around against what you would inevitably learn about its PC name say you know you weren't any advance was just trying to fill you up with just to open you to the idea that there's the animals get new names all the time and that's just a PC it's like a it's like a what he calls like a marketing term yeah because work is a marketing term for not a loyal mean it's not a whale it's a toothed whale is it yeah but a dolphin's a tooth

to because I thought pardon me I thought you were saying if someone wasn't a mammal or something oh no it's a it's a cousin of a dolphin right you know I don't know like taxonomically worries that ya cuz ya I'd be curious I'm pretty sure is no yeah because I'm pretty sure there's a work crazy video of one kilo they're killing a whale while it's alive these killer whales are but that's almost killing happens yeah but I mean it's a I should say they're eating it while it's alive oh fighting chunks of its face off it's just so hard to watch because we think of these whales is being these beautiful creatures and we think of we why we have this weird idea of killer whales as being like these really Noble creatures you know because I always think of killer whales as being like the friend of man and that's why when one does freak out at Sea World it makes SeaWorld look so horrible yeah she's in the wild there's almost no evidence whatsoever that whales have ever killed anybody yeah but he's probably after a while I was like what am I supposed to kill them yeah well yeah he's a killer exactly mean whale and and

instincts that they have you know I was the way I was equated one of the things I have a problem with zoos in general is that they don't allow animals to do their natural thing I really think that would Zoo should be his get all those motherfuckers together you should have a giant piece of land of going to fence it in let him in there and let them run wild and if people really want to see animals what they should see as Jaguars killing monkeys and the hold up the whole gamut and it sounds fucked up but that's really what the wild is because what we're doing by taking these animals and putting these weird cages as we're creating these closed in ecosystems where these animals never have to compete their food is given to them and we're ruining their genetics I mean those animals that are in zoos there are completely incapable of ever being reintroduced into the wild unless you take them and it would have to be some really exhausting effort to try to reintroduce them to the idea of hunting their own food or cat or gathering their own food but those fucking dummies that you have in the zoo you've created these welfare monkeys

yeah you know these monkeys that just I shouldn't say welfare should say like their pets they're like dogs it's like expecting your dog to figure out how to go hunting when he just sitting there wagging his tail waiting for you to open up a can of Alpo they don't know any better but what zoos using their defense and you know some people we've kind of gotten away from a lot of you have gotten away from aesthetically so like the bear in the cage kind of display but was zoos are eyes able to use in their defense is that with cases like the panda Florida panther that they have their genetic Reserve right so maybe they're not maybe they're not ensuring Behavior they're not like protecting Behavior but they're least protecting like the genetic Reserve yeah yes this is called it should shit hit the fan for some species you have that and there's many many examples of things that you know of wild populations that have been supplemented through the zoo stuff but I know what you're saying like I don't like when I take

my kid to a zoo I mean we're sitting there looking at this like I mean just a pathetic example of a grizzly bear I remember just kind of want to look at my son be like listen dude you're getting the wrong idea these things are bad ass normally you know yeah it's just kind of sad have you seen that show The Hunt they're told you about the no no I didn't see it by memory talking about it pretty interesting I don't think it's read about it after you showed it after you told me about it because the guy from Metallica Liz narrating and then he got their band got punished and weren't allowed to play at a music festival they were trying to ban them from it so that ever happen I don't think it meant what the fuck is this because he narrated the show Hatfield right yeah James Hadfield yeah he's a good narrator it's interesting and he's a hunter he hunts a lot and there's a photo of him with his fucking giant bear holy shet mean it's a perspective shot you know they always put the bear yeah we get way back but but this fucking bear is huge I mean it's like a 9-foot bear its enormous is it just the the shoulders on this fucking thing and the

on this thing it's just this and he's standing in front of a people like oh my God disgusting evil what they don't understand is if you truly love bears you got to kill that bear because if you don't kill that bear that bear those big giant bears are responsible for decimating the population of cubs that's what they do and if you don't trim the big ones if you don't kill some of the big ones there's a photo of him with the bear and that is a fucking big but that's a giant yeah where was that is that Kodiak Kodiak yeah he shot went up there while he was doing that show apparently I mean they are enormous and you're not you're not you might see like someone might see that you killed a big male bear and be upset by it but you're really not impacting

the bear population you know you're impacting that individual bear but you're not having any kind of real long-term deleterious effect on the Bears of that Island which are very you know it's a very stable well-regulated population of bears out there I put in for that tag I think as a non guided non-resident so like if you want to go with the guide you can go to Kodiak hunt you know you just go book a trip and go so you just have to pay them and they have a certain amount of tax they obviously don't know what it is you might pay 25 30 grand for the hunt it's interesting watching button on guided non-resident that's always put in for there's a very limited number of tags 49 guided non resin which mean that I would have to go

in lieu of a guide I get her like because my brother's our resident of Alaska I don't need to use a guide when hunting animals that you normally need the guide to hunt so I can go with him and Hunt there and so every other year they do a thing where you can apply for the spring hunt I always put in for that hunt and then when you tell me about that show I was bummed because I was like now the odds of drawing that tag or probably going to for a long time go way way way down because it's probably gonna be a ton of dudes putting in for the permit now yeah could be wrong probably like it's going to increase interest and now I'm like trying to think of a new place to start putting in I've never killed a grizzly bear I want to I really want to one time will you also have a weird thing where you want a grizzly bear to scratch your chest and leaves jars what would you say meant a lot more than when I was single that just seems like one of the worst requests never like a fucking giant bear I mean what is a full-grown

Grizzly way what's the when I mean there's a magical number two gets thrown around a lot it's like when people Rod when people want to say that a bear was huge they say it was a thousand pounds right but those I guess are like if you put a lot of thousand-pound bears on a scale there 800 pounds okay there's 750 pounds eight hundred pounds you know again that Tony Ross gather that wrote those books I was talking about has he's out of an immense amount of experience and he kind of has a passage in there he talks about like the thousand pound bear in the just aren't a lot of them out there is much as you read people getting like ten-foot thousand-pound Bears you knew you would I laugh about this before because everyone is he's a mountain lion in the wild always says big fucking bore you know 200 pound ball remember like I laugh because you it's all eye and you said look like a small one like you're the first guy I've ever met the saw small why I see two of them they were both around the same weight the first one I saw was like a dog sighs like 60

many pounds in the second one it was a much quicker view of them but again if I thought it was a coyote until I saw its tail and then I notice that this big bouncy tail it was in Santa Barbara I was in Montecito driving through a residential neighborhood and will like my wife said it was offered she was a coyote and I go oh shit look at the tail I'm like that's a mountain lion it was like so I was like in that time we saw it in the headlights couldn't have been more than 70 pounds yeah that's your Discerning individual to not have seen a 200-pound Tom so there's the thousand pound bear but that like that bear were just looking at is just a huge bear of I don't know anyways well did you see that video that's been going around lately of a bear that was walking around on two legs and people were saying is this Bigfoot is this what people are seeing because it's absolutely a black bear and this Bear Just for whatever reason it's always nice to get around he walked like a long distance on two legs like it's a crazy video no I haven't put that video up Jamie because it's one of the neighborhood right yeah it's like walking in this like Suburban neighborhood and this fucking bear is on

legs like a dude the bear outfit like Yogi really yeah and I mean he walks 30 40 yards like this so if you were in the woods and you saw this bear doing that he be like I saw a fucking Sasquatch I know what I saw especially if it was like dusk you know look at this bear look at him you gotta be kidding me no check him out man pull it pull it from the beginning so we can see the whole thing you don't like that look at this

oh yeah man I mean if you didn't know any better especially if it's thick woods and you saw that thing you would fucking swear that because you know what the the shots you're looking at right there are often about as long as you see a bear yeah look at him and look at that look at that that is fucking crazy that's pretty wild that you always get around like that you would assume that that is a monkey that's an ape that's a fucking bear

there's no does he have a normal gait when he does get down on all fours or you screwed up some he was running he was you saw him run on all fours its paws are injured oh it's pause injured are you might crap no no no not both Paws but we're just like his right paw looks like it's right plus 1 States in New Jersey yeah I mean if you got caught in a trap is because someone illegally set hmm I don't think that's cool I mean you can't trap bears in New Jersey but just the fact that a bear has that ability I can trap it all in New Jersey I don't know what yeah there's some fur trapping there but I don't know to what extent but there's no bear trap him but isn't it possible that he got caught in another animals trap and that's how he's still alive because you'll never there's no trap that would be used for fur bearing animals now that would cripple that thing to the point where he would do that if he got caught in a foothold trap or like old trap he would pop his foot out of there really I mean I can't lie

I can't rule out everything if that's what happened to that bear and I have no reason to think that it is if that's it like if someone came down and said absolutely that's what happened that bear I'd be like them some was doing like in illegal trapping active right because that's not something that would happen is it much more likely because we're looking at a residential clap do it on something but I could put my ice do this when I used to trap I do this all the time is you know I can snap my hand in most traps really yeah because the Trap has more of a function of I mean this is going to get all you're gonna probably hear from all kinds of your listeners but it has a holding function so starved him to death no not not if you know because you're have to check your traps oh so you go there and it's still alive and then you have to Kill Ya so when I suffer trap I would check my traps every 24 hours using the morning you know but anyways what the Trap largely serves to do is hold something and the way when you rig them

if you do things right okay you rigged them with a lot of swivels and things and so you what you're trying to do is really limit any kind of damage to the animal another this is an altruistic the reason you want to limit damage the animal is the animals less likely to fight the Trap okay if you have a trap that causes the causes like nerve damage bone damage numbing okay it's all the more chances that that thing is going to be working harder to get away and to thinking is you the the in the ideal case you're just trying to hold with a foothold trap so imagine I can chew it just does everybody the yeah people always say chew but what what they will do and I've you know I have seen it happen particularly the muskrats which have very very thin bones there's one only has one paw wonder what happened to him where's that I had no idea I just typed in bear trap that's a hog service what do you think happened there well that's that's too high on his leg to be a trap yeah

so you maybe that's a shot a gun shot or something would have been he could have got shot he could have got shot he could have got hit by a car hmm he could have got it I mean you know I mean things we meet such weird ends and injuries I've seen bears and I'm fairly convinced on Prince of Wales Island I've seen Bears down fairly convinced had been shot just because of the sort of like we're on the shoulder it happened you know rightly looks like someone's yeah it look like I just be like I could picture how that would happen I can't say that I didn't happen there but I wouldn't that's not a trap thing what I have seen is muskrats anyways most guys have very very very thin bones and you'll see where you get muskrats it would entrap or parlance they'll say it would ring out so we're just twist and get away you know okay so just keep spinning and so people say like a chew out but it's weird because people who you know people defending trapping will like to clarify this not actually chew off its a ring off the still cutting their own arm off yeah

I spinning around until the tissue I never saw it I saw it on muskrats

I never saw it on a larger animals

I know I'm not not say that doesn't happen but again like everything there's there's a sort of there's good practices okay I don't trap anymore so I'm not I don't have like a dress when I when I tell you what I'm telling you I'm just telling you this from being a guy who likes to be clear about factual matters I'm not I don't have like a real dog in the race on this so to speak right now but when if you follow good practices on trapping okay

you it's in your best interest to not have these sorts of things happen that you would set in a way that you don't have incidental catches for bycatch right you check your traps on a very tight schedule you know you ring them in such a way that you don't cause damage that if you did get something else into your trap you would be able to release that thing unharmed but there are people who for lack of caring and there are people who just for lack of technical expertise screw these things up you know and often times you could get violations like what would be like a trapping based violation from someone who wouldn't self-identify as a fur trapper but who just got mad about some bear or whatever getting into his dumpster and then he takes matters into his own hands completely outside of the law and decides to like fix that bear and and in expertly set a trap for it you know now there are bear traps right though yeah she's seen the movies at catch the bad guy in his leg and yell screaming aah yep those are real those are I mean there there used to be

a lot of black bear trapping you know people use trap black bears all the time there used to be some grisly trapping at a time people would trap them to sell fur they trap them to get them for you know scientific purposes they trap them to just catch them for pets they trap in to mitigate livestock risk you know there's a lot of traffic going on right now bear trapping isn't a thing that goes on it there's not like there's a bear trap where there yeah that's so that yeah it was funny now is there used to be a lot of bear traps antique bear traps on the market but people still manufacture what would what would be a bear trap in order to sell it as a like as a piece of memory like a false memorabilia like a Flintlock gun exactly sell yeah so there's a lot of guys that may creep like reproductions of old bear traps that there's no like no one's like intending that they're going to go set it for a bear but people want to have like a lodge you know you got like your cab and you want a big bear trap

and up and it right there's a lot of bear traps and you'll see where a doodle think he has something awesome you know he's trying to sell it for a thousand bucks and you look at me like I go by those all day long $450 it just like it's not old there's a comedy club in town called The Improv in the front of the comedy club at one time they've they've abandoned it but it was a barbecue place and the barbecue place they tried to make it like with old tools in the wall like an old saw like you know those little wooden handle on each side cross cut saws and you can look at it you like I know that shit it's two years old like I'm looking at it's all rusty and everything but I know this is not a fucking antique they had one of those sickles that you know like the death dealer that what are they called depth Grim Reaper grim reapers always supposed to have that was on the wall to like it trying to make it like some Farm oh yeah would old-timey old-timey Wood Walls like a stained you know like a they made it look like it's old and weathered yeah you know the wood which some have been this is actually from a hundred year old farmhouse

would that we have here this is reclaimed Oak this is not yeah it's I specifically went out of the way to get old wood because I felt like the kind of cool you know because it's probably some weird energy and some Old Farm would this is like real old thick wood oh yeah no I like it I have the me and my old man cut down he's dead now but when I was in high school he was building a pole barn and we cut down Oak

on this piece of property we owned across the road from our house this is a little corner lot and we cut down a note he built the barn and I took that old the logs and I took him down and put him on a flatbed trailer and had a milled into Lumber oh wow and took all that Lumber and years later he's been dead since I think 2002-2003 I still haven't finished this but that I laminated all those pieces together into like what looks like chunks of bowling lane I'm still trying to make a damn desk out of these things oh wow it's like and I'm actively engaged right now and trying to move one of these slabs from Miles City I'll to Washington now so I can continue my now 12 year long project or trying to turn me in the old man's tree so anyways I'm a sentimentalist when it comes to would just like yourself oh that's cool so you gonna make it like writing desk like where you do your writing I think so I think I'm gonna make a wraparound desk yeah that's a great idea yeah but all the pieces I have together aren't as big as this desk or sitting at but it's still nice you know big chunk I have a desk that I bought in

3 it's a writing desk and it's got two levels like one level it's a very it's old it's Oak you know but it's like there was a place called the writer store and there's a store in Hollywood that was just all writing stuff needs to have like script programs for old-school Max like you know the oldest computer uses 1994 that I got this fucking thing I've written everything I've ever written on this one desk till now yeah I won't I will ever get rid of it my wife's like let's get rid of this piece of shit I get the fuck out of here this desk going nowhere it's solid as a rock it's all Oak but it's just there's stains on it she said it's disgusting it's got like coffee I'll yeah this shit's perfect well like as long as it's in my office you fucking leave it here it's got the patina of your sweat and labor everything good I've ever written is all from that desk is one desk I've had and I'm never getting rid of it I just got this one oak desk that I've had from the beginning of my time here in La I'll never get rid of that fuck so when you say that you've written

do you sit down and write yes stand up well I sit down and write this is what I do most of the time I write like I used to keep an active blog on my website but when I started writing a book I got a book deal a few years back and I started writing a book I stopped writing the blog and then when the Publishers were just fucking trying to do they were essentially trying to get me to write it like stand up I remember you telling ya it's I gave them their money back would you feel he doesn't work your book well I don't like it like I've read I've read like George Carlin's book which is essentially just his stand-up in book form and Jerry Seinfeld did a similar thing I don't like that if I want to if I want George Carlin's writing like that I want to see it I want to see George Carlin do his to I don't want to read it you know I don't there's some benefit I guess inbreeding in there's some it's good it's better than nothing but it's not as good as when I when I write I'm writing stuff because I know people going to read it you know so the descriptives are very different the way it's spaced out is very different the way

a set things up is different and so what I do now is I write as if I was going to write a book or a blog entry and then I go over it and then I extract ideas that come out of that because I feel like I do both like I'll write down specifically I'll try to write as a joke like thinking I'm standing on stage and you know setup punchline or beginning premise and then add in the jokes but more often I just write like I'll write about something and then along the way usually I'm baked so it's I get silly like as I'm writing like these new ideas will come in I'll just give me in writing with characters and stuff no no just writing as you talk at some time but you're right as you talking I yeah I right not even as me talking I just write like alright like like a pick a subject like whatever amphetamines piss speed you know Adderall and I'll start writing about it

raw now you know and then along the way you know I'll have like a really funny thing will come up in the writing where I got like I'm laughing as I'm writing it because it just came out of nowhere don't you feel like you're a really good writer Man by the way I really love meteor it's a really good book oh thanks man it's it was I mean I knew you're a smart dude and you're obviously very articulate but the writing was very is very descriptive it's very interesting it's very fun to follow and when you when you write stuff like that don't you feel like sometimes like as you're writing like it's almost like it's not even you that's writing like these ideas just sort of like pop in your head like out of nowhere and then you're putting them down no I'm um for me I'm so aware of the process that there's no surprising thing to me one of my mentors and one like what I regard as one of the best American

fiction writers out there Alive Now is a writer named Ian Frazer and when he what's his work he's got several books one of the books I hold up is just like one of the in my opinion one of the finest books ever written his book Great Plains Great Plains which is about the Great Plains but he's a stylist you know he's also he was a humor writer for the New Yorker for a long time it was I had great Fortune to he know if he would use his term I think he liked mentored me in somewhere I read his stuff and had the opportunity to hang out with him a handful of times and he was saying that when he was growing up

and he wanted to be a writer he pictured the writers would be that you're sitting at a desk kind of chuckling to yourself as you

you know have all these fantastic ideas but when I write I get so few words written every day and every sentence that I write takes I have to write it and rewrite it and rewrite it so many times that there's never a thing where I feel like there's never a thing where I feel like holy smokes I nailed it

because it's so I almost look at like if you're building a house you know maybe when you get all done with the house you can stand outside and be like wow there it is I did it but there's never like there's never a shocking moment because every nail and every board you know there's never a chance for wear something jumps ahead radically really quickly in a way that can startle you hmm now the other night I wrote my brothers getting married this weekend my older brother and I sat down to make some notes about I'm gonna you know my best man speech right after I wrote my best man speech

it's funny because just having me last night after I do my best man speech I felt like why can't I feel like I had it where I got I was like talking about some funny stuff in my head and kind of writing down notes and I thought of some way to actually like you're supposed to do in a best man speeches you're supposed to make it like hit right like hit the right note right it's funny and you're dogging on them and then all sudden you turn it you know and it's sweet and nice okay and I found that turn to make it sweet and nice and it's so and it just struck me as being like perfect you know I was like why can't the regular writing I do feel that way that's interesting where I'm like ha you know I kind of want to like pump my fist in the air do other people that you know that our writers have those moments with those those those moments that I'm talking about weird things just pop to you I feel like they do I you know one of the things I follow on Twitter is this thing John Whitaker

and it's just I don't know how he does it but six or seven times a day he's got quotes from great writers about writing this is how do you spell his name jhn winrm John Whitaker

it's like writers on writing

and I learned more about writing and writers from reading this think of this like really cool writers talk about the writing process I'm sure he's probably hit one just within minutes oh at advice to writers advice Riders have you like here right now just a couple minutes ago or a couple hours ago when I write I don't think of the audience after the fact I think well I hope they like it so that's like a writer talking about writing right and this Twitter feed hits these quotes all day long so I learned more about writers even though I went to writing school and everything I learned more about writers following that guy's Twitter account and I do gather that some writers are blown away and have fun writing it to me it's agonizing I can't stand it that's the weird thing about doing TV is I love having written you know when I write a book I'm so it's just like a deep deep satisfaction okay I love having done it when I die if they will if they choose

writer in the my Tombstone you know I'd be very happy right but I hate the act of writing make it TV is so fun just in the moment it's very fun right I love going out and doing it you know but when it's said and done I don't get that that feeling like I slayed a dragon

like I would get from writing a book I know exactly what you're talking about you know yeah you're when you're doing a television show also it's very different than most TV and that you're out there doing something that you enjoy anyway exactly and there's a lot of people coming in on it so writing is like me I mean sure you know you have it I don't mean in any way discount the role of an editor and I don't know if you do something similar with your stand-up you show other comedians is of but yeah like a role of an editor so I don't want to act like oh it's just all out of your head you know my agent I work closely with he influences things I do my editor button and it's like kind of it's your thing right TV is a whole bunch of people so you could go out have a great thing and then you turn it in in the editor Nails it so I can't go like I made this amazing TV show because it's like the guy that produced it the guys that shot it the guys edited it right all that kind of stuff and so your sense of ownership becomes a little bit different you're like a stakeholder and not like the dude owns the thing yeah there's so much going on

there's music that's the way it's edited extremely it really has a massive impact on how it comes off as a piece yeah I think like as it hosts you know as a whole says a person who has like a lot of sway in the kind of things we go do I still feel like you know I'm kicking in 10 or 20% and interests and eighty ninety percent is you know a handful of other people who are throwing it on it nobody works harder than people who work on your show like those kind of dudes like dhoti and Mo and all those guys who have to fucking sleep in tents and in the back of that fucking van where the llamas pissed and I really kind of love it I love those guys but sighs we just had this guy we want to like him we had a camera guy come out with for the first time you know it didn't he was just getting beat up I mean and he admitted it you know and it kind of became the joke or he's saying the door he's like man you guys got to do a better

job of explaining what this is and as I feel like I said it's like rigorous hiking you know he's like yeah but that like that's not this I thought like like it walking down a trail or something you know it's like but there's no language to explain it I don't know why those guys I dunno why I think one could look at me like I don't understand why those guys would subject themselves to that right level of treatment because I've had the opportunity to work very briefly in will be like network television mainstream television and I'm telling you what it's not typical what you do what those guys do in the hours they do it is not typical not at all no I was shocked here like one time some guy was coming out with us and I knew was gonna be trouble because come out of this is asking about what the hours are I'm like I don't know I think you know we usually will sleep at night 24 hours a day of the hours it's like what I mean

sleeping on the ground in Montana and it's zero degrees outside and you're fucking huddled up in your tent you're kind of working still oh because you would never be there unless they were paying you to be there like even though you're off we'd still you're subjecting yourself to sleeping on the ground in Montana in a tent you freezing your dick off yeah you know like you have to like Flex and squeeze under your sleeping bag to generate some warmth for you can pass out your kind of working yeah like that like Doherty yanis Moe they just

they just they like to be in some way tortured a little bit I think and they also just like to be working you know you know I don't think that they but the other thing is I don't think they really they're at work by don't know how much they think about it being at work

I see what you're saying I think they just think of it as like existing whoa Jimmy I don't think they go like oh no I'm going to work I think that they think of their lives more their lives don't seem to I don't think they think of their lives as having like it's like nah I'm at work now I'm at home now I'm at work now I'm at home I think like at home they're thinking about work stuff and okay as you know I mean I feel like more there that they don't look at it like you know punching the Old Clock is my guess they showed up well it's funny because Mo and I had a conversation once about another show that he was working on and one of the guys that was on the other show and he was taking great pride in describing what a coward this guy was and it was not even great pride but he was enjoying it is like he's yellow it was talking about it but it was like here's a guy that's been working on your show for several seasons and he's fucking undergone some horrendous locations and climbing to the top of fucking mountains while carrying a 50-pound camera and the whole deal I mean he's fucking cameras are no joke and hiking

carrying a gun hiking is difficult yeah there's all this sliding of the ground underneath you and you're constantly going up up up and you're essentially like you're doing like a little mini squats all day long and it's exhausting and these guys are doing it with one arm holding a fucking camera backwards backwards like that old joke about Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire you know like she did everything Fred Astaire did backwards yeah right you'll draw whatever one right right yeah most you good though man like but we can't like most who good you know he's like oh he's off doing other stuff you know it was like a chain to it was like a treat to have him but he's we always trying to and but he just in such demand you know he's been he's nominated for all these enemies all the time yeah won he won an Emmy nominated for an Emmy this year well your show stands out at all I mean there's there's hunting shows and then there's your show the only show that I've seen recently that does that as well have you seen Uncharted the gym chalky show no but I know a lot of I know his stuff

haven't seen that but I know that that that show is a highly respected show it's really good yeah it's not her daughter is telling me he says phenomenal I watched it the other day for the first time and he was off in Pakistan and it was really intense because one of the guys that goes with them all the time his wife didn't want to go to Pakistan I mean she was like really scared and she was like you know it's so dangerous there please don't go he's got a wife and kids and so he stayed back and you know Jim shocked he went by himself and they followed the guy who stayed back going on this trip to hunt deer and when he went on this trip at home in Texas to hunt deer you know he was talking about his dad and like he's a real scene like that right crying and it was it was really intense that's great it was very very very intense but in a way that you know like a lot of those shows are so fucking bad long before I got involved in TV and outdoor TV it was like a thing you would always hear is friends of mine guys I respect that would kind of be

sort of dismissing outdoor television as a genre but the thing was I was like but shock he's legit or something or some such thing I mean he's been around for so long yeah but he's a he's a highly respected figure there's this annual thing called Shot Show and I see him you can't miss him guys huge and he's kind of like the last great white Hunter you know and cowboy hat on its yeah I see him what I want you you don't know I always think I'm gonna go up and say something to him I never had never have no no really I would have died would force myself to not ever want to meet that guy there's there's an amazing thing so I mean there's just some good clips and stuff he's done he's like he's an articulate guy and goes to some cool places and he's you know he's you can tell his hearts in the right place man I like I think he has honest

you know he has an honest affection for for wildlife and wild places for sure yeah for sure you also enjoys the roughing it aspect of it like he enjoys going to these ridiculous remote locations and hunting these very odd animals is very exotic animals he did something when they flew into Russia and they took these fucking weird SUV things he's off I mean I shouldn't even say SUV these weird all-terrain vehicles that look like these military vehicles deep deep deep in the mountain like 12-hour drive and just say he's been some wild place it's get some fucking weird Ram you know just it was really intense it's like it's an it was unexpected I just was swept into the channels and it came on and I'd seen his other show before yeah so this Uncharted thing I'd seen all these ads for it but man they were in Pakistan and they were at they had armed guards wear them everywhere they went as all right guys with AK-47s and it was like it was pretty intense because it's a fucking dangerous dangerous place

and he's out there wearing the traditional Muslim Garb he wears like the the close of those people where you can really you don't want to stand out you don't want to stand out as being a Westerner guys like the Green Berets man yeah so he's wearing their outfits as he's hunting it's really intense and you know they're off in the fucking middle of mean deep in the middle of nowhere hunting some Ram that's great I'm glad I'm glad you liked this show because it's good to hear you know something out there the caught your eye it's really well done it's really well done but there's like that show your show then like you know the rest of them work there's some of them look like they're made with like a home movie camera and it's like a guy who's never even thought about making a show well sometimes that's true man there's a guy there's a guy I was talking to who makes a honcho and one day were talking I was shocked to hear that he's a he's a registered nurse has a full-time job at a hospital whoa

and he you know he makes a hunting show yeah he just burns it up man how you like wow just something he wants to do and he's gonna double X just finds a way to make it happen yeah it's fucking hard it says some of them to it's like there's some of them that are the same show always which is so bizarre yeah we get that's the thing we have a conversation about is is I wanted to go back and film next spring

I have a black bear permit for this regulatory year which extends the next spring for Prince of Wales I wanted to go back and and Doherty was saying is they anything that you know we did a show out there interrupting my own story we did a show out on Prince of Wales last spring and went and found a lot of bears and in the end I could have shot a bear I didn't cut his have this strange feeling sometimes not strange some that just want to watch Bears rather than shoot at him so we did a show about that and

I wanted to go back this spring and Doherty was like I just feel like anything we could have done out there we've done you know and I want him like yeah that's right we probably shouldn't go and do a show an episode in the same place doing the same thing but on the other hand like Bahamut because some shows all it is they don't do anything but hunt they're like some least they have for whitetail deer every single time yeah yeah the whole show is looking at camera photos from camera traps and them you know talking about the different standards that they have set up and then them up in the stand with a bow and arrow waiting for a fucking deer to come by I mean that is every goddamn show it's always white tail it's always in a tree stand it's always in the same sort of Farmland on the edges of these cornfields and it's the same show every goddamn week and I guess people just like watching people hunt deer do you enjoy it I watch I watch them you know every now and then I like you know thinking like oh I wish I saw that deer and I was that close I'll shoot this shit out of that deer yeah well you learn about

staff eventually watching it yeah you definitely learn stuff you learn stuff about wind and placement and trails they walk and their behavior or like how they you know how they can kind of anticipate where they're coming through and how to how to pay attention to the trails and one of them it was interesting it was how to recognize a difference between the dough trails and the buck Trails the the dough Trails were going straight across this like this riverbed area where there's a lot of mud you could see like these doze that like large populations of animals going this way and he's like you see these animals that are crisscrossing those are those are bucks those are writer catching the scent well catching the scent of these days that I hadn't heard that oh really it's interesting that was subtle know I don't know what ton about way I mean I grew up hunting whitetails be grew up hunting whitetails not probably using our heads as much as we might have you know well the One release yes yeah we got we got dear yeah the time we went at Doug's Farm in Wisconsin man my fucking deer

everywhere yeah crazy and they're you're not playing this is a distinction hours make in hunting is

I tried to find those places where you're mostly thinking about animals and not so much thinking about hunters will you focused on that on your show to though the difference like the one time that you went and you were elk hunting in Montana and you know you were on your way after an elk and you see another fucking Hunter that's doing the same thing multiple times everywhere yeah so you spend most of your time wondering about what other guys are doing and trying to capitalize on that or trying to anticipate the response of animals to that pressure you know I so much rather just be like in a one-on-one thing next week we're going up to hunt Moose up in the Brooks range you know and it's one of the you know absolutely the most one of the most remotest places the most remote place in North America and up there is like there's really no you don't you don't have to factor in effects of other individuals you just thinking about the animals which is fun and it's very rewarding but it's just not what most people are up against

like when I was a kid and we were hunting whitetails we really planned on people you know it was very important about where other guys were what other guys hunting schedules was like you know there's certain guys we knew that you know there's a guy we knew that would always say like if I see your guys truck coming down the driveway to the farm I always go over to such and such place because I know that the way you guys move into your blinds you're likely to bump a deer down such-and-such fence line so this guy's thinking about dear sure be thinking about through the context of human activities so dear being scared by you yeah he's like you guys got that blind on that area and I know every time you go in there you don't realize it because you're a dumbass but when you go in there you're bumping dear and they're going down that fence line so if I see your truck coming on and run over there wow that's in which is a kind of thing in like elq when I lived in Montana we would met our opening day plan was generally

find out where elk are where they've been for a couple weeks and so the people will know they're there how are they going to leave that area within three minutes of legal shooting light on opening day and what saddle are they going to use and they pass out of that Valley

and you would pretty much plan that would be your thing is I know where they're at I know that they're going to get bumped probably before legal light and where they're going to go after that I got a friend who has for the last you know 20 years been killing elk bye

he knows the spot to Elk move into when they get pressured and he knows that some people can find these elk was spotting Scopes no find his elk on this Mountainside he knows it you there's no way to approach these elk on this Mountainside without spooking them when he sees the elk have moved into this area he'll watch him with a spotting scope waiting to see someone else try to climb up and put a move on these elk

when they start climbing up after when he goes that guy sees him he's gonna go try to put a move on him he'll go down an ambush those elk three miles away from there wow and he waits till someone sees him because he knows we're going to go because he knows the path they always take with these care and he calls it the laundry chute he said they come spilling through there like laundry laundry chute he's been doing it for 20 years wow I really enjoyed that episode that you did this year in Kentucky yeah that we went elk hunting and Kentucky because the situation is very it's very unique in that they have reintroduced successfully reintroduced elk into Kentucky and instead of like what you're looking at a western hunt we look at these Great Wide Open Spaces and Timber and you could see them in the distance instead you're looking at incredibly dense like Southeast sort of kind of forests where these elk are like you were like kind of creeping up on them and like it was hard for the camera guy to get a good view of some of these elk at the lq shot like there's so many goddamn

he's there oh yeah you just see a little portions of them it's funny cause when that show in the beginning that show we're staying there too you know pre-dawn darkness and there's like the Eastern forests are sort of like the cacophony of noise in an Eastern forests that you lack in the west there's slugs and yammy the biodiversity is so much higher you know not a large mammals but the biodiversity of just stuff that's because the moisture Prado no quality of soil moisture proud yeah I would guess moisture as a huge part of it and probably the fertility of the landscape like like the you know how nutrient-rich the soil is at some base level probably is what's at play because this is climate Northwest doesn't have those sounds and it's very moist yeah you're right that's why I was confusing I know guys that would be able to answer that I don't know I know that for instance I keep coming back around you can tell I'm so excited about her hunt I'm principles Islands I know my brother who is an ecologist up there

that that elevation band where Prince of Wales island is is sort of the the richest marine environment

of anywhere really yeah so that that like latitude ban is an extremely rich marine environment there so Mars fishing there must be incredible and just I mean it's just everything it's like you it's just a buzz with life are we going to we're going to fish there were there were there too no no no forget maybe there's a possibility probably not so it gets a little bit late like fishing Peaks like July are this is phenomenal it just kind of halibut yeah but they held it so much better in July and August weirdos out there for my brother's bachelor party and did phenomenally well and halibut yeah Doug was sending me pictures we got some doozies Norm some yeah some nice look tables so

in the beginning episode just kind of standing there and um

and to hear that noise of the Eastern Forest you know and then to have it be that you're looking for elq is so it just feels weird for anyone tell me what that and pulled up a clip pull the clips of people get here because it's pretty cool it's you in the forest like on your show where you were you were explaining and talking about it the smell of elk right now seems to have like a warmth to it it's hard to explain be just kind of guess that's you like you'll smell like that's that's not

Jesus power games bed bed

little bats all over here and just make sense dial things are cool looks like a ghost in the forest shows up there they are man it's so different so enormous to so those things got wiped out of that area by 1820 you know like Daniel Boone

used to cross over to get down into the Kentucky hunting grounds he would cross over to Cumberland Gap which is very near there

and then he would go to you know what we call the Blue Grass Hills and that was more open environment and had a lot of welcome people with and you don't the Blue Grass Hills for Elk they don't for deer and hunt for black bear selling the meat and hides by the 1820 or thereabouts they'll Kurt is gone okay the Buffalo got shot out L got shot out Dear remain black bears remained mountain lions were shot out wolves are shot out and then they were gone for over a hundred years and then when they did it all that Mountaintop coal mining in Kentucky

and after the Reclamation process they chopped down in the construction these mines they destroyed a lot of hardwood forests Chi like deciduous hardwood forest Hickory be choked all kind of stuff but when they reclaimed the left all these flat mountain top areas that they just did and you know grasses and other stabilizing vegetation not Timber and it created sort of this open Savanna like environment and

people recognize the be a good place to put elq and there wasn't a lot of resistance if you went into an agricultural area and decided you know we got a great idea we're going to bring in thousands of seven eight hundred-pound herbivores in cut them loose out here you would get a ton of resistance but the areas rural enough and in the reclaim coal country there just wasn't a huge interest in not putting him there so now they've got the biggest elk herd east of the Mississippi there's 10,000 plus Elk Run Around in Kentucky but even still

Elgar are like 90% not recovered you know I mean they were everywhere they were everywhere and the weird thing about it is we could have as many back we could totally bring back way more than we have now but you have a handful of interest that don't like that auto insurers generally don't like it agricultural interest don't like it but it's one of those things that we could fix like that in the Buffalo the only thing standing between us and restoring Buffalo to more of their native range is popular conception perception of you know popular perception of the issue the only thing standing between us and reintroducing Elk to more and more their native range is just selling it to the public other problems we have

you know you look at something like acidification of the oceans people like geez I have no idea I don't know what there's no way right it's impossible to fix this is too expensive whatever we don't know the science that we don't understand the science of it but some stuff like when it comes to Bringing big animals back often times it's just a matter of do we want to or not and in Kentucky there's enough people that wanted to where they made it happen and now it's a thriving heard they're even using that hurt they had they pulled animals the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation spearheaded this thing and provided much of the money and labor for it they pulled animals from commercial 17 or 20 Source sites moved him into Kentucky now Kentucky's a source site for other reintroduction so they're pulling animals out of Kentucky now and using the to reintroduce herds and other places where they were extirpated but what other places are they planning it now they're got some going into I know when Virginia to bring in some in

I'm not sure if they brought some in a North Carolina but you know North Carolina had native hurts was just an amazing animal so how the meat is so incredibly healthy it's really like a breast a pound of chicken and a pound of elk the alkyl have last cholesterol yeah it's healthier for you less fat more protein it's like the best is the best meat out there man as far as eating like the taste of it is still make there's no bad elk they're just good even a big giant ones and they're just good man my brother killed one one time he had a really hard it was just tough he hadn't aged it but you just you know you need like a nice facility to be able to consistently age stuff because if the weather's against you you can't age like where you know no one's got most people don't have a walk-in cooler where they can go hang 400 500 pounds of meat you know that is what an elk is so if you get one and it's hot off times you got to get it into a freezer and it'll age little bit in the freezer but anyways he killed one flavor was great but it was just a tough tough tough bull to chew on just a

big muscular animal and It's just tough and um it was funny because he he started the the only vegetable he was interested in eating I'm gonna tell you this was boiled cabbage because like I only have so much muscle power and my jaw and I can't waste any of my jaw muscle power on anything but you in my Elka so he would eat boiled cabbage and that is out until he got done with it till he's a hundred rounds every time you find someone's guy to like his aversion to waste his a buddy of ours got married one time and

and his Brides

neighbors were out of town for during the wedding ceremonies the bride's neighbor says well I'll open my house up if you got some out-of-town guests who need a place to stay because I'm on vacation anyways so they give this house where it's just like for the groomsmen to hang out I mean my brothers were in the with the groomsmen and some other guys and so we get to stay in this house during our stay he has occasion my brother Matt has occasion to peak in the guys freezer and season his freezer that he's got an elk he killed four years ago it's dated from four years ago and he has a moral crisis where he's like is it worse to steal or is it worse to allow such a beautiful animals flesh to go to waste when this guy inevitably

will declare this freezer burn and throw it away like if he was going to eat it he would hate it right for years three and a half years ago so when we left he had a bunch of that in his duffel bag and went home and ate it because he couldn't stomach the thought of that animal going to waste like his reverence for is so high that he can't have something he can't allow someone else to to trifle with how many years is an animal good in a freezer I'm telling you what man it depends on the animal lean stuff like elk if you trim away

okay lean stuff like hooved animals who have game animals if you trim away the fat which we don't call that we called Tallow it's waxy if you trim that stuff away

and you either seal it with a vacuum sealer and then don't mess with the bag like don't poke any holes in the bag so that the seal stays good and treat it very gently so that this deal stays so the seal stays intact

or you wrap it in Saran Wrap

and then wrap it and wrap wax freezer paper you could not Pepsi challenge that stuff if it was a year old again stuff that was a month old what about two years three years I've done it at 2 2 is for me personally the longest out I've gone as to I've heard of people going more and at to when you thought and you look at it you can tell something happened to it but you can trim it up and have it be and I've served old stuff like that to my wife nor Tie My Hands the me is if I wind up having something get kind of lost in my freezer if you don't practice good freezer management like I try to do would be last in first out right but now then just something happens and you lose track something you find some old thing I've served stuff to my wife that was two years old and she didn't flag it while eating it you like user in his experiment - let me she'll call me all right she's more Wild game meat than most people that I miss you know she's Wild game eat every night that's all you have in your homework

Mary does he gave me lately we've been eating salmon and held at which can't really complain about but you know she's eating tons of it she recently I'm not allowed I'm trying to get this overturned but right now is a moratorium on bear meat

and your house yeah because you got trichinosis yeah so her her and my kids she said that you will not serve bear me to my kids wow because of you getting that I got the worm I got where you only get that illness if you undercook it it's like a hundred and fifty degrees right yeah what it is and I tried to explain that so the spring we hunted black bears we had a black bears in Alaska range I took a guy hunting who you should have on the show some point is the guy named Rorke Denver he's a

he's just leaving the service now he's a Navy SEAL commander and he wrote a book called Damn Few making the modern seal Warrior and remember a few years ago that movie Act of Valor came out and is all active duty seals he's one of the stars in a movie and took him out bear hunt he grew up fishing like the fish a lot hadn't done any hunting but definitely grew up in the out of doors and then you know obviously over the last 13 14 years they've been just he's been just consumed by training and being deployed again and again and again you know Iraq and Afghanistan so he has like messed around outside even those very important him growing up he just like I said he's leaving the service now I took him out on a hunt and we went black bear hunting

and in the end we got on this big black bear and called him the Predator call and he killed the bear and we walked on it's a big bore you know it's like a six and a half foot bore and I said and work on it up and I'm saying to him on camera I'm like I'm telling you what man if a bear is going to have trichinosis is going to be him and what I'm talking about was Montana used to do free they used to do free testing for trichinosis so you could send in a they asked for specifically a golf ball sized piece of the tongue and you can send it into the MSU and an MS you would send you the results on your bare the first bear ever sent in for testing was from a 17 year old black bear whoa and that bear meat came back positive besides steaks and roasts I had 83 pounds of ground meat off that black bear was a big bear

so I say anything and it comes back and it's positive and once it's positive you are excused from wanton waste law so it's illegal to waste game me okay you they spell out in great detail what you're obligated to retain on an animal and use there's some areas in Alaska for instance where you know if you kill a moose you have to bring the liver home it's specified like legally you're obligated to salvage liver so they sent a thing saying we're not going to give you a new Bear Tag but you're excused and if you want to discard the meat you can discard the meat and now there's no way I'm gonna do that right the only thing worse to me than getting trichinosis was was throwing away this bear meat so I just got a meat thermometer a nice one and ate the whole bear

I went on I never got another bear tested and they told me I read this thing we're saying that of these the they did this study Montana where these two counties in Northwest Montana that really Highbury populations is Lincoln County and Sanders County and they said that they've never tested a bear from those counties that was over six years of age the didn't have trichinosis so trichinosis just like you're not born to the right you can you eat infected meat and

you can track the disease or you know and then you wind up having those little sis the larvae and your muscle tissue and it just has passed along through consumption it's the reason you're supposed to cook pork to well done and now it's not really that way anymore because they've gotten it out of domestic pork so much because when they when they stopped feeding pigs restaurant slop they really cut trichinosis outs with the realize when they're feeding pigs restaurant slap your inadvertently giving them rats and mice that are sort of caught up in the cycle of restaurant slop right whoa and rats and mice are big carriers so once they got rid of them was they made it illegal they had like only that that USDA inspected pigs are feeding on controlled sources not stuff from you know garbage pails I used to wash dishes at the summer camp when I was kid and every day a pig farmer came and got all the food scraps and he fed him he was selling inspected pork so you can't do that now so now 90 some percent of the black bear cases or so 90 some percent of the trichinosis cases in the US

come from bear meat I'm explaining all this to work

and the next day

I'm explaining another interesting thing about Blackburn me how there's a lot of variability in Blackburn meet some are great some are not so great so I'm talking about when I kill a bear I'm always really interested to get a taste of it to see if we're dealing with if we got gold or bronze right and we start a fire and it's raining and we start a little fire and skewer up just some pieces just a sample it and it's raining and we're feeding it the firewood and everything's wet and she's a pain in the ass trying to get it cooked and eventually I kind of peel this piece apart in my hands I'm like yeah you know we're cool were cool so there's six of us

we eat it and I don't think another thing about it right so the next day we cooked some Shanks but we cook the piss out of the shanks like we make osso buco Brave Shanks and cook them for five or six hours right we did a whole bunch of that eat some Grayling eat some rainbow trout go home a month goes by and I get the shit's real bad so and it's like a weird kind of the shit's so I sent a text message to the guys at work with saying is anybody have like a weird kind of the ship because I'm worried that we got Giardia or something or cryptosporidium from from water contamination and one of the guys writes back and says no but man do I gots like some bizarre muscle aches you know now yeah well never mind that I'm worried about my shit you know I'm not worried about your problem so a couple days later I remember I'm like crossing a street and I'm like kind of the weird feeling in my back you know and it just got worse and worse and worse and eventually text this guy and I'm like what were you saying about

legs dude in a wild four of us all had and when we started put it together is like we all have the same weird thing intense muscle pain in our calves intense muscle pain in our necks fevers and we haven't seen each other for a month and we all got sick on July 5 so it was like this isn't the common cold so there's an incubation period a month what has you eat the only thing that can liberate those larvae from their cyst is stomach acid so when you consume the meat

your stomach acid dissolves the the thing and liberates the larvae and you got boys and girls in there and it takes them forever takes them weeks they build up their numbers you know they get kicking ass and they get in your blood stream the larvae do and then about a month into it the larvae start burrowing out of your vascular system and getting into your muscle tissue whoa when they start setting up shop oh my God so

the CDC gets involved in this I was now in Kings County K they sent me a thing recently where no one in Kings County has had

well like last year the whole Consciousness like 11 or 12 cases trick Nelson whole country no one in Kings County had it in for five years the last guy that had I think a guy and

Cagayan 2007 or 2011 I can't remember which where's Kings County is Seattle area yeah he had it from making homemade mountain lion Jerky like the only guy so they're all excited and they want me to give him a piece of the meat like him a piece of that meat they come in a car I like go down and hand them a shank off this bear

I told her I said you eat that cook it you know and um she tested negative action while later nothing had 868 larvae per gram

which is some like 460,000 larvae per pound oh my God there's he's blown up images of it and it's just like it's just larvae so the whole meat is just and it's just and Festival larval that bear must be in misery I don't know what he's thinking but I'm fine now so

out of the four of us to get sick I'm the I go down and they say like in severe cases you know if it attacks your pulmonary system but if the larvae Tak your heart there's you take it there's a medication you take while so why does can take the medication you know like well you know you might not need to us I wanna go take I go down that medications $2,400 even with health insurance is $1100 to buy the medication so the other guys are like well I'll just wait and see what happens to you we all get better at the same time and that medication only kills him in your stomach right so for six to ten years depending on your Source if you were to eat me

undercooked you would contract trichinosis whoa so I don't know if that means I have 868 larvae per gram I just have a hard time fathoming that but we're all positive like we're positive carriers wow so you right now have those things in your muscle tissue that's my understanding I read a lot about this as you can imagine like you get I was very curious about I didn't know I always thought when you got trichinosis you died kind of I didn't know I thought I don't know what I thought I've been writing about this and talking about this on TV for 10 years telling people in by the way make sure to you know they say like familiarity breeds complacency you know I was contempt is that what it is yeah no well then that's my new saying because I felt like

I don't know why I can see here right now and picture the piece of meat that I'm sure got me sick so I don't know what else thinking man so that is one thing in my wife my wife's like it's so embarrassing she's like you're supposed to like the mediator and you I'm like I'm like you know what though and I was embarrassed and it's embarrassing right but at the same time like you know what where do all the Mountaineers die they die on the mountain yeah so it's not like or you should be the last guy to die in the mountain you claim to be this big mountain here it's like well you know what exposure I don't know how but you know living on it that's just my way of hiding the fact is like really stupid is a stupid thing to do and I want to remember Doherty saying you sure you want people to know that this happened to you because isn't it kind of embarrassing to you and I'm like yeah it's embarrassing to me but I'm just going to talk about it cookie bear me so she'd oh yeah my wife's like no way the word has done with the bear meat thing and my brother and my brothers wedding we're at his rehearsal dinner were doing all wild game for his rehearsal dinner so I had smoked up a ham off this bear

the longest serve as rehearsal dinner he says don't tell anybody about the worm deal because it'll turn them off to the whole damn meal and I said I gotta I feel now like I'll have to say this has been cooked but FYI I got trichinosis from eating this bear uncooked and he thinks that he's just like I'd rather you not serve it then serve it and bring it up whoa I think you should serve and in the end I decided not to serve at his wedding I would eat in it is long as it's cooked a hundred fifty degrees especially smoked I know what people are like Tai Chi for him like that man people aren't like that I smoked that ham from that pig that we shot and I could get it to finish your in your your method with the brine oh my God it was some of the best tasting meat I've ever had it was unbelievable telling man and that son of a bitch probably has I mean I'm not probably but it's a very good chance he's got it they eat yeah yeah it was so tender

Licious but I've cooked a bunch of it just just put it on the grill just seasoned it and put it on the grill and it's amazing how tough it is yeah we can beat all shoot through that shit but take you have it did you get a grinder yeah I gotta grind yeah I got a grinder for the venison after I Wisconsin Callen and I we made buckets of hamburger meat that's good oh it's so you can you can grind up that wild pork to yeah I'd be curious just to take a piece of that wild pork and send it in and see if if it has it has trichinosis or not you want me to I'll send it in I mean what was that I don't know what would you do with the information if you knew make sure I did whatever already doing I guess exactly yeah when I cooked it I cooked it the smoked ham I cooked for like fucking 10 hours or something yeah it took forever and you get it up to the right temperature yeah some people even say

like Harold McGee science and lore of the kitchen her signs and lower cooking whatever it is it's a great it's like the science of food and food cooking and ingredients is a phenomenal reference book and there he says it seems to be I think that it was in his book he says it seems that there's evidence to suggest that freezing

kills it though the USDA still sticks that guideline of cooking temperature when that like prolong freezing kills it but a couple years ago a couple guys got trichinosis from walrus meat and Alaska fucking wall yeah so hard hats on a bitch got it but he's the walrus had it and they think that there might be that this worm is trichinella spiralis I think is his name I got pictures of the thing on my phone the let the worm looks like so that there's nor they think there's a might be some Northern varieties

in walrus in polar bear that are less susceptible to freezing hmm and that perhaps that it freezing is not to be relied on when killing these worms that it's a different Northern variety that's just got more tolerance and again man this is just something I read who the fuck is eating polar bear and walrus wow people like walrus I like when there's a guy you know it's funny I've never had it but I've been arranging to have some because I drew a muskox tag for nunivak Island this winter and when you hunt none of that ground if you draw that tag you have to hire what's called a transporter because the only place to land is a mica rock on nunivak and it's a native Village okay so anyway door Eskimo Village and these people like your transporter can't do guide services like he can't tell you where an animal is but he's like provides Transportation so you rent snow machines or Harvey getting around and he'll give you a place to stay when you're on the island it's called a transporter

the transporter that I'm using is a walrus Hunter so they're protected by The Marine Mammal protection act okay so like white guys don't go walrus but natives who aren't administered by The Marine Mammal protection act have their own self governing body called The Walrus commission I think the wall is commission I came Emirates meats and no more kotzebue and the walrus commission will make decisions about what walrus Harvest different coastal Villages are allowed to have and out there on nunivak those Hunters out there will periodically go and Hunt walrus and the guy I'm using as my transporter goes on the walrus hunts so I've been encouraging him to make sure to have some that I'd because I'd like to eat it when I come out and I'd like to do a thing about that and hang out with this guy knee towards me and he's going to says he's going to make sure to have some on hand and are walruses like when you Johanna walrus like you're allowed to eat the meat

but you're not allowed to hunt it so but if someone can give it to you could you bring it back I don't know about you can't bring the ivory back I don't know about transporting the meat that's a good question but yeah I could go into his home and I don't even know the extent of it but I can go into his home and he can serve me a meal just like people might go up to Nome or whatever and sample muktuk from whale you know yeah but no I don't I know I'm fairly certain that he could not give me the ivory you know because there's like the ivory band so Ivory has to have a cultural marking on it you know you're supposed to turn the artwork so a lot of times you know like sea otters were nearly extirpated in some places like regionally extirpated by the fur trade particularly when the Russians were had a strong presence in Alaska and now sea otter numbers are you know really recovered in a lot of areas but still for natives that are allowed to trap sea otters they can't just sell the pelts as a pelt they have to do something to it to make it a cultural item at which

if they can exchange it for money so if a native Hunter kills a walrus he can do scrimshaw on that tusk

you know and that puts that Tuscan a different legal framework than it would is raw what they call raw ivory hmm that's fascinating so I know but yeah he can serve me a piece of walrus me but I don't know what I don't know what laws govern me walking away with some I've no idea now seals they eat seals as well and they're allowed to hunt and eat seals the the natives and the Inuits could get it so again it's self-governed I watched Bourdain show and he was with this Inuit family and they were eating a seal and they butchered the whole thing like that was in Northern Canada right what's there's like an autonomous is sort of like an autonomous Zone there the name is gay through right now but ya know what you're talking about and they were eating it raw yeah you're that doesn't have trichinosis I've no idea or I don't know if people were surprised to hear the walruses had trichinosis what does a walrus eat well they eat a lot of you know clams crabs

he lost I just don't know enough I don't know enough about how that thing got I don't know enough about whether what kind of sea animals have that stuff I mean was he a chunk of polar bear that you found Frozen on I have no idea where I would love to know when I had Lyme disease I did tons of I could have gotten an honorary PhD in Lyme disease after having Lyme disease and then when ice got trichinosis I started reading everything I could find about trig enosis but that just got better one day that's wild so you're not gonna read I quit reading about it just you just felt better how long went away six seven days one of the guys that had he was running a hundred 3.9 degree fever whoa for six days and they're checking them for like Dengue Fever West Nile Virus he had no idea didn't bring this up one of the dudes girlfriends is a doctor and she says finally I think you boys got trichinosis

I go into a doctor like here's what I think I got an A to know that know what the hell I was talking about well to he's had 12 cases a year in the entire country and never see and as for of you want to ask me how to spell it once I was talking about a venereal disease called turkoman trichomoniasis but I eventually convinced the man just like when I had Lyme disease I walked around having to convince people that I had that well I'm disease is really common them become that's a that I understand but just depends on what that pert What that particular I use the term with that particular healthcare provider has run into and you go in and say like oh I'm not feeling so hot you know on this and that I think I got Lyme disease it's just like not you know did you know I think if you're in Hudson Valley New York you're going to walk in they're gonna be like hell yeah you got Lyme disease but in some places are going to be like yeah I don't know what you got is it a weird when you talk to some Doc I mean there's doctors are dismissive of things like real dismissive and then it turns out that you were right yeah that's gotta be infuriating we unit so that

that's what I ran into not and I've told this story a thousand times but when my boy we got tricked thank God hitting a tree knows he got Lyme disease he and I got Lyme disease at the same time fishing bluegills and he where I was at my mom's and Michigan my mom comes up she was swimming with the boy mom was on the same leg I grew up on and she was swimming with the boy down the lake and she comes up and says why is his belly button all red like this

I can't tell what happened there and it turned into one of those Bullseye rashes

my wife I send my wife a text image the text message picture of this thing in my wife right away is like I wonder if she's got Lyme disease looks like one of those Bullseye rash is they talk about Lyme disease so she tells me send it to his pediatrician because I had him at my mom's you know she wasn't there she's like send it to his pediatrician I sent his pediatrician be like we're worried about what he's got lime she's like we'll just keep an eye on it but you don't keep an eye on those things those things just go away they don't last forever right so all of a sudden then it's gone but clearly he had it and so then we wind up going down there because then he gets another one somewhere else and we go down or like really concerned he's got lying because he gets this Bullseye rash and they're like where where is it I'm like well it's not there now but it was there and he keeps talking about this net and everything different symptoms he's having

we take them in three times each time bringing up I fear that this is what's going on with him when we pull him out of the bathtub for whatever reason the hot water he's got these damn circles all over them but they kind of go away you know eventually he's got Bell's Palsy he take a sip of milk has milk around the corner of his mouth you know

and we going to like holy shit he's got Lyme disease at this point it has been going on for weeks you know and what's funny is this place his pediatrician has a newsletter and they had a newsletter article that was about Lyme hysteria about how everyone so hysterical about lime

being like don't really need to worry about it you know everybody's getting hysterical about Lyme like it's the new bogeyman you know so in this altercation we have with the pediatrician I'm like I feel that your lime has stereo thinking in your lime history article kind of colored your impression of what I'm telling you and I when we're coming in your telling you we had to self-diagnose our child at which point they said I want to have someone else in the room during this discussion they said that because we were pissed well you easily could have sued the shit out of them if you were so inclined yeah listen and you know I don't want to I'm thinking that stuff but I mean I was like I entertained all kinds of ideas if he didn't get better but he responded so quickly to medication the but it was unbelievable and meanwhile I had all the same stuff and I thought it was psychosomatic I want to having to do the

intravenous of you know Doherty he was real so he was in the hospital I managed it well when I ran into you last time we went hunting together you were really skinny and I was like dude you look like you lost a lot of weight and I lost a ton of weight during all that told me the whole story I'll see you trying to drink like like milkshakes and stuff like I was like down at GNC trying to like do stuff we got a neuron that's yeah I had the guys some Wilderness athlete sending me like home I'll just trying to do anything I could do to put on weight wow there was a knock my dick in the dirt bad man I bet I've heard nothing but horror stories about people getting Lyme disease I'm nothing but horror stories it's just it and then not only that your body doesn't really ever get rid of it right now it's unclear you know and if you like the medical the established

scholarly consensus on Lime I think is still this that there's no such thing as chronic lyme is what they'll say is what when I say they I mean like the medical establishment will say that

that chronic lyme doesn't exist that there's Lyme disease and when you go through treatment like what I did the the 28-day intravenous deal they put a line that goes in your arm up to your heart and you inject these syringes in it like when you get done with that you do not have those bacteria in your body anymore if you go to a lime specialist and you tell lime specials I have chronic lyme I met one I tried to get in to see one of these limes specialist and she said category I don't see lime chronic lyme patients

I see a cute line patients and I had already done one round of antibiotics and I got worse during the round of oral and she's like oh your chronic lyme meaning like oh it's all in your head what so I go to another infectious disease person I was talking to them and they said well it's like it just seems kind of its Urban chronic lines and urban legend my finding wound up in some way bearing out what she said would happen where I finished the stuff I think I got done that sometime in September and by November my symptoms were gone

that's me my boy got better but I've met I've since then met all the people who are very credible individuals you know who are not hysterical people who've been through various rounds of treatment and they're not getting better the arth like the arthritic stuff and lime such a weird thing like with my kid you can't argue with Bell's palsy it's just right there but other stuff like folks don't know what that means but spiralis yeah facial paralysis yeah I mean he had like bad facial paralysis so you can't argue with it right it's just like glaring and that's one of the key that's one of the bullseye rash Bell's palsy but there's all these other things like arthritic pain okay fatigue they don't think a lot of people think that all the time they were diagnosing chronic fatigue syndrome was people with limes people Lyme disease my friend's dad got it from the from getting vaccinated they used to have a vaccination against Lyme disease but the problem with it a small percentage of people that got that

in would have some genetic marker that would make them predisposed to getting fucking Lyme disease from this vaccine this guy was terrified of getting Lyme disease gets a vaccination against Lyme disease got Lyme disease from the vaccination and then they stopped making the Lyme disease vaccination so this poor guy has fucking Lyme disease and he's still fucked up he's an old guy it's her dad and he's you know he's jacked from this fucking vaccination I haven't checked this from multiple sources I just heard this or read this that

couple interesting facts about Lyme is when my son and I both got it I'm gonna be like what are the odds because you'd read that one or two percent of ticks carry Lyme so I'm like we would have had to have been covered in hundreds of ticks for both of us to have you know statistically for both of us to have gotten without even seeing any ticks like how could this be and later read the in that area in New York and that are in Hudson Valley they've done some stuff for 60 or 70% of The Tick's have lime and they used to Chronicle 30,000 confirmed cases you know every year I think last summer there were close to 300,000 this is blown up it is not so much that it's blowing up in new places it's just as becoming like much more common

in other places initial their direct correlation between over the population of deer and and these ticks some people say that because it's like in that things life span you know it gets on dear but I've heard all the things that even just like rodents you know so like small Orford animals I'm not really clear on that man I don't really know I know that that when you look at places that have it you look at places that have a lot of deer but I don't know if if you had a third as many deer if you'd have higher lower if you'd have necessarily lower infection rates I can't answer that but dog during who you know he'll I think last summer twice he got put on the the immediate antibiotics because right now when you find one of those ticks buried in you if you go into a doctor and if you're not weird about medication the doctors just going to give you a super heavy dose of antibiotics that kills it before it gets ahold of you if you wait like I did it gets into your nervous system so I even had I even had for a day I had Amnesia where I'm sitting at my desk

and I get up to do something and I sit back down and I didn't know who wrote what's on my computer oh I started I knew I had to write about a subject because I knew that before the Amnesia kicked I lost a whole day I lost like eight hours of time and I knew that I was supposed to write about a subject and here was a thing on my computer about that subject I started taking sentences

and our first I took a big block like a paragraph of text and put it into Google to try to find how I cut and pasted how I managed to cut and paste an article

on the subject I was supposed to be writing about into a Word document

but there's no match then I just start taking like little blocks of words in quotes and there's no match I'm like this is not from online then I start thinking that one of the guys I work with I thought this guy Jared and reconnaissance was near there who works at zpz I started thinking the he somehow is playing some joke I'm here he came and wrote about what I was supposed to write about on my desk I also have book one of my favorite books called hunt High by Duncan Gilchrist and I had written Mark Boardman Vortex Optics okay I look at the book I know the book

I know who Mark Borman is by can't imagine why Mark borman's name would be on a sticky note on that book and I look at my other hand on my hand I have llo P written an LLP is a term length of pull it's a firearm term

and a guy wanted a length of pull off a firearm and I roll LPM my hand I looked at my hand like I didn't know who put that there how long it had been there what it meant and I tried to go home and couldn't get home couldn't figure out I got on the wrong train got off at the wrong spot we were living in Brooklyn got off at the wrong spot came up recognized a sport recognize the like a sporting is like a sports place called camera doesn't matter what it's like a sporting his place and called my wife and told her I swear I was

and then all of a sudden things started making more and more and more and more sense wow dude it was wild man I thought I was dying I thought I was dying we did an episode of that Joe Rogan questions everything show on more gel ins more Jones is this disease that most doctors dismiss they think that the people that are saying they have this that there's something wrong with them psychologically that they have some sort of psychosomatic issue and that what they're really doing is scratching themselves until they create these abscesses and and then sometimes even putting things in their skin and then claiming that these things have been growing out of their skin because they found like carpet fibers and stuff in their skin of these people sent in but then when we went to these conferences with these people would meet that have this more Jones issue you realize you're also talking about some seriously educated people and some of their doctors and one of the doctors that we talked to said there is a direct correlation between more gems disease in people who have

I'm disease those are and what he said is very intelligent guys what is an utter what he said is that he believes that there's a neurotoxic effect that you get from Lyme disease from some strains of Lyme disease because the way he said was if you look at Lyme disease he goes you're not looking at like if a tick infects you you're not looking at just Lyme disease but it's possible you might have gotten 10 different oh yeah man I learned about a lot of that stuff yeah and that one of those ten different things is causing this neurotoxic effect that literally is making you go crazy yeah so when these doctors are examining these people they say oh they're crazy they think that carpet fibers are growing out of their skin no they have Lyme disease and the Lyme disease along with all this other shit is causing this neurotoxic effect and that is what's making them think that there's something wrong with your skin so it's not that they're just crazy is that they have a disease as making them go crazy and that was pretty Illuminating because this guy was talking about

like seeing things like that seeing like worms underneath his skin of arise when he's doing the the mirror and he goes and I knew it wasn't there but I'm seeing it anyway and he goes I could feel it moving across my eye but then there was nothing there and he's like and it was pretty clear to me as a doctor that there was something going on with my mind know that had a direct correlation between this disease so all these people that have this more Jones they also have this Lyme disease you know I don't know if Dan Dougherty told me about this but he all of a sudden has this excruciating neck pain

and he goes down to a emergency room this is same time this is going on me goes down emergency room it's like oh I got like they give us some muscle relaxers or something he comes back home and it gets worse and weirder he goes down to another place and they tell the same thing you got pinched nerve and and we're text messaging about I was like hey what's going on you know how you feeling

and I remember that when I was finally talking to a person knew about lime they kept telling me to move my neck and see if it hurt and I told Dorothy I said you know what when I was down to the kept asked me to move my head and does my neck feel weird go down to that place so he just leaves his one doctor takes a cab down to this place where I had gone and they admit him

he had meningitis was spent on the Halo 4 5 6 days in the hospital wound up with the PICC line and meningitis from lyman's itís whoa because in years and years you know like an infections in your spinal fluid I have a friend who died from that died from meningitis he went to the hospital went into the emergency room and he was he was a comic and he was he's one of these he was real busy he was like fuck this place to make me wait too long I'm leaving and he got out of there got on a plane flew to Hawaii when he got to Hawaii was dying it's all right by the time he got there was too late I was yeah I was scared because I remember but there's I guess there's different forms but anyways his they did a spinal tap and he was all messed up and meningitis obscure Sean I've had some of the weird in the last three or four years

I've had to some of the weirdest like freaky hell things but they're parasites like yeah everything that you've had already yeah there's something I got a cone infection from water and that was from the other show right that was from like wild within know I was doing meat eater so I had like I got really bad poison oak was on steroids for that but also got some kind of waterborne parasite and then the steroids combat your ability to fight infection and open a hospital not like shit in my own couch my wife like my wife's like listen you know there's nothing now just like I felt bad about like having you be there when I was having babies just like you got you got nothing on me now that's hilarious sugar on couch

so I couldn't even tell when it was happening you know wow I thought oh man again I thought I was gonna die so anyways I just packed like just weird stuff and know I gotta keep my camera no don't even don't he's like you need to go to a shaman because he thinks there's something like I need to have like like there's some sin I committed against the universe or something and it's like he thinks I need to go to a shaman to get right dhoti did too much DMT he did too much DMT trust me you can do too much you gotta be careful with that fucking Ayahuasca yeah that's hilarious that whole Shaman thing is this is a real trip you know the whole go into the jungle and taking that medication and having these spiritual experiences it'll get you convinced that everything is all tied together and that somehow or another you've committed some sort of a sin against the Universe I gotta I gotta let you talk to I can't I don't want to speak for the boy I'm already talked about them too much I think Jody yeah no we'll Dodie and I had a long

sense of conversation about his Ayahuasca experience yeah and I've never done Ayahuasca but I've done DMT many times I did it again recently did it last weekend and the the DMT experiences is essentially what Ayahuasca is a orally active version of DMT because the Amazon Shaman and the people it's derived its from two different plants okay well what is the first thing about the stuff DMT is dimethyltryptamine and it exists in thousands of different plants and the reason why you don't get it like you don't get high when you eat it it's because your stomach produces mono a mean oxidate so monoamine oxidase what you need to do is take an inhibitor so that you could get it in an orderly and orally active form so most of the time when most people get DMT with they're getting is the synthesized version where they've taking koecher viridis or all these different plants they've extracted it down to the DMT and then you smoke it and what they do in the Amazons it's regulated in the US or not it's illegal

schedule 1 the issue is scheduled what with it being a drug though is that exists in so many different forms you would have to make grass illegal I gotta give you had phalaris grass growing in your front lawn you essentially have a schedule run drug growing on your lawn in massive quantities so it can't be enforced it's a weird but but if they find the powder if they find it synthesized and turned into a powder that you could smoke and Freebase then it's illegal then it's a schedule 1 drug but it exists in your own human neurochemistry it's like making saliva illegal yes no it was literally that ridiculous the Amazon Shaman have figured out a way to take the vine of one plant and The Roots and the leaves of another and they boil them together so essentially they use harming which is a natural MAO inhibitor and they combine it with this plant and they boil it into this potion and that's what Ayahuasca is so it's DMT and an MAO inhibitor together in this Elixir you drink it and you have what's close to this

smoked DMT experience as you can get but not quite as potent but it's not it's not there's not a synthetic version of Ayahuasca no no well like it's all extracted from plants like DMT as is not like they don't produce it in laughs thank you can produce it in a loud I think you can but the precursors of it are very tightly controlled by the DEA like you can't like if they found out that you were buying a

certain amount of this chemical that you would use to make the synthetic version of it they would flag you got you but the plants are legal so you could go online there was a guy that got arrested and they took all of his money and lock them up in jail because it was think I think was called Happy Frog or something like that one of the name of his company I don't remember the name of his company but he sold all these legal plants but the plants were all totally legal but he sold them with the pretense that you could take these plans and extract DMT value and then he was he was arrested for because he was putting a and b together for yeah he well he was allowing you to find the source to do it yourself yeah but even though what he was selling was legal I think he got off I'm just kind of speaking out of school here because it was a few years back and I didn't totally paid too much attention to it but it is in so many different sources and it's a hallucinogenic yes it will it's a human neurotransmitter in an incredibly potent drug that's also the most transient

rug ever exist or one of the most transient drugs ever observed so if you get like if say if you'd smoked DMT like I did it like I said last week your blasted to the center of the universe for about 15 minutes and then you back to Baseline like you're completely sober in 15 minutes your body knows exactly redo it yeah your body knows exactly what to do with it because it's such a normal part of your Chemistry that your body can bring it back to Baseline within minutes

too weird it's the weirdest shit ever and the weirdest aspect of his why you're blown out like blown out in this intense psychedelic State you immediately think I'm here all the time I've been here before oh there I know what this is it does it's not unfamiliar it's completely alien but yet familiar at the same time so dou T in all those Ayahuasca experiences that he had when he's talking about these flashbacks all his craziness what happens is you open up this it's a weird effect where if you do DMT and you have these powerful experiences you open up this door and I don't know what the chemical effect of it is or what the mechanism is but something happens when you open up that door where you can open up that door again even in a dream and so the speculation is that what what what happens when people have like near death experiences when people have alien abduction experiences when people have these crazy things they say happened to them

most likely what it is is some sort of a weird endogenous dump of DMT like you know something can happen to you and you get this crazy Adrenaline Rush yeah and honor they believe that it's possible that something can happen to you and you get a crazy DMT Rush that it's very difficult to access but that it's a function of the brain and it's causing you to for lack of a better word it's causing you to trip yes but you might perceive it as a memory you could perceive it at well it feels as real if not more real than reality itself because it's intensely colored and brightly lit and the the there's no borders to things but yet there are it's very very very difficult to describe I'm doing a terrible job of describing it and all around you it's alive with entities and these entities are communicating with you both with sound and with visual cues it's a very very very weird trip like you think in a negative way or if you try to control it they're like literally shake their finger at you going to live in the now

no no but then if you get it right it calms down like it's like a lesson yeah how to think it's a very very bizarre bizarre trip the most bizarre out of all the psychedelics by far the way I describe it is mushrooms times a million plus aliens yeah it's the mandala it's the center of the of the mandala of all there's a McKenna described it the mandala of all the different psychedelic experiences the center of it the the literally the fucking point 0 The Event Horizon of that is DMT so do you feel like to to do it do you feel like you're being recreational or constructive constructive I try not to do anything recreational a smoke a little weed recreationally have a drink recreationally but I think psychedelic experiences there's so beneficial I've gotten so much benefit out of them that I don't I don't like I feel like I'd be be a waste did you mean like personally or as a performer

not personally yeah well as a performer you know eventually personally first as a performer I benefit from the you know whatever I get out of it personally yeah because yeah I mean yeah tied again I'm with you but you know you don't think of funny jokes or something no they the people don't tell you funny jokes you can put into your act nope nope nope no it's all about correcting your your bullshit it's almost like all right you haven't been here a while come on and we got to say it's like going to the dentist you never been a dentist in like two years or one of those fucking guys yeah that's my gosh sit down sit down and they find all kinds of stuff oh you got this why you thinking about this that the the don't think about that that's just stupid you waste your time thinking it's like they sort of explain to you the wasted paths that you're taking with your thinking in your mind and then even with your actions so how long did how long did the 15 minutes feel like why did several in a day so I did three or four 15-minute ones in a row

so you know like just blast off come back to Baseline hit it again would you be like man I was just 15 minutes or would it feel like you were gone like days no it doesn't feel like days it it's feels like it's when you're in the state itself it almost feels like time doesn't exist I cannot see it unless you think about it too much like sometimes I think about it I don't want this to end so quick and then they like the the stop thinking all this stupid shit like you're wasting your time it's like imagine enjoying a great movie and being like man this movie is going to end soon yeah I know that feeling movies only 10 minutes in and I know it's only got an hour and 50 minutes to go shit I wish I could go on forever that's a wasted thought like why not just be in the moment and enjoy it so it's you know that that expression be in the moment is like so overdone and hippie and fucking yoga like so many people say things like that and just makes you moan like oh we shut the fuck up because it's like it's so cliched and annoying when they

but an order saying there's wisdom in it unfortunately there's just so many of these fucking fake spiritual people that clog up all these words and they ruin some of these definitions because you know just be in the moment find your Center oh fuck you okay I'm not listening you're like I used to take yoga from this guy that was a total bullshit artist he was a good yoga instructor but he was he was Intoxicated by the fact that he was teaching yoga and then all these people came to him and his ego would feed off of this this yoga class to the point where he would say all these things and you would see people roll their eyes like my wife used to hate him because he was so cheesy and it's like kind of hit on the ladies that would be there and he want a fucking some dudes wife and it was like a disaster left his wife and she left her husband and now they're miserable together it's like he was like a fake spiritual guy and these fake spiritual people they have this way of ruining a lot of like really

wise Notions yeah one of them is because they use that they're using it as a tool well you know it's like or they're claiming to be enlightened when really they're just a student on the path and maybe they have some good ideas along the way to Enlightenment but they're not quite there yeah you know there's a lot of that man it's like a lot of people searching like this these new age type people that are searching for some sort of a meaning and if you find the wrong Shaman you find the wrong Yogi find the wrong Guru if you don't go down a bad path mean the guy who's ahead of Bikram Yoga is got like all these rape allegations yam actual assault allegations he drives a fucking Bentley everywhere he's loaded he's got fucking gold crusted Rolexes and he's like clearly not a spiritual enlightened guy but he's the head of this whole Bikram movement which is like filled with all these pseudo spiritual people you know I was sitting there one day reading a

book reading Al Sharpton's most recent book why would you do that long story written in crayon no much my agent my literary agent

represented Al Sharpton did a book with all sharp so I'm reading now Sharpton book and I'm sitting here in a guys coming down the road walking a dog and he looks like a like he's like a yachtsman you know the guy walking dogs like clearly a yachtsman like yes his world and he comes up and says to me you know I had a meeting with him one time

and he came up in a chauffeured car

and he had a Rolex watch on and he proceeded to tell me how he lives on a $23,000 a year salary wow this is it I don't know how old that story was I don't know how true that story was because it's kind of like he was sort of like pointing out the you know what there was a guy with nothing like a like a like an apparent discrepancy there's a massive discrepancy there was a guy once it was on this radio show that I was listening to that was the head of a corporation that was approached by Jesse Jackson because there was some something had gone on something where there would racial insensitivity was you know was there been accused of something that was racial racially insensitive so Jesse Jackson came on and essentially the pitch was you are going to hire my company to give seminars on racial sensitivity and it's going to cost you a quarter million dollars a year and if you do not we are going to protest you we're going to make it miserable we're going to cost you far

more than it would then you would spend to have my company come in the Rainbow Coalition or whatever the fuck isn't that like isn't that extortion though it's illegal it's not illegal oh it isn't it isn't I mean it is illegal if you called extortion but what he's essentially saying is it's within your best interest to align yourself with its opposite out-of-court settlement yeah exactly yeah an out-of-court settlement that they profit from in an incredible way but he had like all these crazy demands like he wanted to have shrimp cocktail like a like Jesse Jackson had all these like very specific demands as far as the the kind of food the amount of food that he was to be given what was supposed to go on and what kind of car he supposed to be picked up in and you know you look at Reverend Jesse Jackson though he's a religious man well where's he getting all this fucking money now he is a wealthy wealthy God and he's Wealthy by being what they call a race pimp and that's how this guy was describing it was like he's a race pimp like this guy finds these scenarios where

thing goes wrong moves in and then extract money from the situation

I should send you my Al Sharpton book I won't read it because it's a really good chapter is one really good chapter in that book where he talks about

how people's positions on things evolved over the years and I thought that was good then there's a really horrible chapter where he talks about how his role in comforting Michael Jackson's family upon Michael Jackson's death or he was he's sort of presents himself as the great hero and if I don't know why I think I read you know my age was like you're the last guy in the world I expected Rida um Sharpton book but I told myself well here's the thing that's probably why I'm reading it because all my life I've heard about this guy I really don't understand who he is or what he does well he's too many of these names know it's like almost like he's always got a name like Peta yes where people hear it and they roll their eyes Jeremy like it's almost become like he cringed to hear someone say it but it's almost become like like he's almost a punch line yes he is rougher so many people you know so many pundits and commentators you know yeah that realized I was kind of victim of that

we're not victimized I was like a doing that right I couldn't tell what the guy did I couldn't tell what he stood for but you thought of him as a punch line yeah I just knew that of him you know well you know the Tawana Brawley the the case that got him famous yeah he wrote he thought about that yeah was just hilarious I mean he represented a woman who made up a fake allegation of being raped by white people and wrote things on her body and it turns out none of it happened she just made it all up and he was demanding you know Justice and all this crazy shit and he was you know on every television show and all throughout you know the news cases and all this different shit and it turned out that what he was doing was just is based on nothing was based on all lies was based the the entire scenario jetted him into the public eye it was a fake scene yeah I can't tell you whether I read that in this book or whether one of the many people who saw me reading the book and had to come get me their two cents on the subject told me what's amazing that the guy became famous for

demanding Justice is something that never take place but it's a Perfect Analogy or it's a perfect representation of who he is you know and also how bizarre are sensitivities are to race that with this fucking clown is on MSNBC or CNBC or whatever the fuck is giving his opinions all these different things and his opinions are brutally dumb like his way of committing when he has to communicate we asked to debate people who are intelligent or have nuanced opinions on these subjects like his he's clear and obvious bias and his is Cookie Cutter idea of racism in America like racism is a real issue without a doubt but having a guy like that represent the black community almost Foster's racism it's almost like if I was a racist and I wanted to make sure that people had a negative opinion of black people I would take the most clownish cartoon versions of black leaders and feature them prominently on television in order to reinforce it reinforce these ideas of these cartoonish figures

being this is what represents the black community is in the black community silly you know and that's what happens instead of getting a Neil deGrasse Tyson a Cornel West instead of getting these super intelligent very articulate people with broad support broad perspectives you get this goofball with a fucking conked hair and you know a stapled stomach and he's a goofball yeah and his many thousand dollar suits on television demanding you know reparations for slavery it's like come on man like this is it's almost a setup it's almost like to in engineer racism Jesse Jackson barely can speak English it's obviously an educated guy obviously is articulate but his if you're a professional speaker which essentially he is his ability to enunciate words is so sloppy and so confusing it's like do you know how you sound yeah like you almost sound like you're doing this on purpose you know when is it

when you talk this is good like you you listen to him talk it's almost like he's too lazy to say the words in a way that everyone can understand their he like there's like a he likes the Cadence of it somewhere the other used to do is Neil deGrasse Tyson ever speak out does he ever have you ever heard him speak on Race talking about race I never have her and I'm sorry I only hear him talk about what he talks about professionally yeah he's talked about some other science-based things not just astrophysics I've heard him speak on genetically modified foods and some Miss keleti really people yeah yeah I've heard him speak on some other things that people have some misconceptions of and it just sort of science-based stuff but I haven't heard him speak on Race he's an interesting guy he's a fun dude man yeah is that thing on the in comprehensible universe that Series yeah it's an amazing so yeah I think it's like I think it says what's called division the cosmos the the known as version of them and I have it's great it's great because it also he made it very accessible this version The Conch like the the story of Giordano

you know I think that's his name the guy who was burned at the stake for suggesting that the universe is infinite yeah and they're like why you fucking crazy bitch we're going to let you on fire unless you tell them unless you repent that there's a brick wall yeah as a brick wall after there's a feeling out there and behind that is a door and gods out there you know and he he was convinced that it wasn't the case but he did the whole Giordano Bruno thing he did it in animated form it made an animation of it which is fantastic he also made an animation form which you be really interested in showing how wolves became dogs and over the course of human civilization evolving how these wolves who had become friendly with people had eventually gotten to the point where the people were feeding them and the Wolf stayed close and then those wolves had slowly but surely morphed into dogs that's on Cosmos yes yeah amazing because there's so much wild stuff coming out of do you say you're you know about those Russians that were taken Fox taken foxes yes you can selectively breeding I don't know

fast you can change stuff yeah yeah amazing you can yeah when you all you all you need to do is look at what they've done with dogs you know the the time that human beings have been what is the established timeline for agricultural civilizations what is it ten thousand years yeah ten eleven thousand years anatomically modern here like pick your number but a hundred thousand yeah so in that time which is a blink of the eye you've made a fucking poodle out of a wolf yeah man you've made a Chihuahua 141 Americans for first passing in North America there weren't like breeds of dogs which is like the dog they had that's crazy you know they weren't written have like that's 1400 wha 1,400 1,500 not at all 50 rise 16 probably some I mean it's hotly debated number but sometime between like some for our oldest sites are 14,000 years but people think there has besides

haven't found or we'll never find that are older maybe 20,000 years but when like like say when like Daniel Boone came across America oh no they had breeds they had breathe oh yeah when did they start having when is it established idea I've no idea so fascinating there's probably like I'm sure there's great stuff written about it but you know like they had so one of when the first Americans migrated in North America they were traveling with a domestic version you know something that had been domesticated for quite some time a domestic version of the Eurasian wolf and then they came down and here you had a number of wild canines you know wolves which the animal they were traveling with could breed with Wolves you now find that in certain cases wolves and coyotes they don't they don't I don't think they always put off viable young but they do think that there are hybridization events between

wolves and coyotes so at some point these guys came down with this Eurasian wolves there was probably almost certainly there had been some in you know some in breeding with wolves and an out of that stock

created Lord knows what all you know because by the time Lewis and Clark like you know when Lewis and Clark were out and they were eating dogs the plains tribes they had those dogs weren't showing like there hadn't been dogs that came from Europe from colonists hadn't put dog blood into the dog blood and they came and they had a dog that looked like the other with a call like it looked like a what they now call in Vietnam a gamete dog like just like a mutt dog you know multi like was multiple colors on them there was a recent thing where they've done a genetic study on certain hybrids where they found a hybrid that's part Kayo part wolf and part domestic dog Zara yeah there is really recent really that kind of surprised because one of the things people look at is why our

you know Kyle's in the East are just different the beggar mmm you know they feel that there's that there was hybridization events of wolves and coyotes they gave you kind of like a like a bigger Kyle Nizhny of smaller carols in the west yeah this is from The Washington Post

coyote wolf hybrids are prowling Rock Creek Park and DC suburbs what the fuck man this is it yeah this is a coyote wolf hybrid in the Washington DC suburbs

and that nuts coywolves and they've they've recently established that wolves have returned to California the first known wolf you know within x amount of coming out of where I'll find out coming out was that there is it like the red wolves coming out of Arizona New Mexico I'll tell you right now because it's a totally new thing that they've proven it's from yeah it's a where they've established it

the most controversial return to California it's on Popular Science magazine popular opinion is divided and how to manage the gray wolf so it's a gray wolf

2011 a male gray wolf called OR7 left his pack in Oregon and traversed 1,200 miles to California with a sword travel isn't a typical for gray wolves the terrain or seven covered set him apart from the pack he became the first confirmed wolf in California and almost a century Mill kid yeah and so had he been collared and Oregon he must have been it's good question it must have right if they figured out where he is you know guy Missouri one time killed when outside of his chicken coop with all the Kyoto nothing had come from Michigan's Upper Peninsula well there was a guy to cross the Mississippi they killed a mountain lion in Connecticut that turned out to be from South Dakota hear about that fucking thing I'm Tony I would like I don't mean to say like I was on this story long ago but you know my entire life this debate about where like mountain lions at turn up in the East or werewolves that turn up in weird places my entire life has been this battle between people who be like oh it's escaped pets

it's escaped pets hmm you know and now it's becoming clearer and so many of these cases it's not things just leave now and then and they have a very clear sense of purpose and they travel tremendous distances this is O R7 they actually got a trail-cam photo of this thing in California yeah and it uses every time someone saw something like that people like oh you didn't see it or you saw an escaped pet and you'd think that like every household had a mountain lion pack to account for all the lines of guys would be like it was a damn lion like I found were something that killed a deer I went back the next day there's a lion sitting there biggest an escaped pet this is pretty proficient you know it's my whole life has been going on and now finally I mean the guys have been pushing for this for ever finally got a feel a lot better when now that through tracking devices were able to go like yeah wolf decided one day you know to leave there and go down there's a Grizzly that one day too

the mosey out of the Rockies and made it out in the eastern Montana you know there's an elk that did a many usually it's you know she usually these wide range and predators they got Wolverines that I was just reading the thing about they had a wolverine backup looks this one's being interesting they did a rate they're doing a radio collar starting Alaska about a road there to think about putting a road in into the Juno area Okay so they've been doing a study on animal movements in that area to try to anticipate how this road might impact wildlife and in just to see about their migration patterns and movement patterns they went in and collared a bunch of stuff they had a

radio collared moose fall into a crevasse in a glacier

and then a radio-collared bear tried to go in there and get them out and fell in and died and I think that was then of scavenged by a radio collared Wolverine they also had a wolverine they had a wolverine collared their get caught by a trap or 250 miles away in BC wow 250 miles it worked Wolverines are really rare and fine right there the rare to find like Tony that is one of the last things of large you know like North American fauna that's one of the last things I'm looking for you're looking for a Wolverine I have not laid eyes on one my friends at be honest all one Caribou hunting my brother Danny was hunting spring Bears one time and saw Wolverines digging through the debris field at the base of an avalanche looking for Critters that got swept up in the Avalanche I had a handful of friends

see when I haven't seen one yet those are just Badgers and Wolverines those types of animals are so bizarre dude I was driving down lucious I was driving down the Haul road the The trans-alaska Pipeline Road and you know you're up here like if you go if you're on that road like the pipe the road that parallels the Alaska pipeline Dalton Highway if you're on that road and you go

west you're not going to eat you know depending on your line of travel you won't hit another road till you're in Europe you know any Russia and then you go the other direction you're going to get way into Canada for utero I mean you're up milliner I'm not in the middle of nowhere but it's very remote relative to anything we can comprehend down here driving on that road one time all out steps of links okay and it looks like it's like a cat with a baby's face on it like a human babies face on it and and all steps of links and like it's level it just like to be to have an animal look at you like that and it just with utter lack lack of comprehension like I can't say it's for sure but more than other animals you feel that he had never seen that before never seen a person it's just like usually like you'll see an animal he cuts out on the road right and he sees a car and he gets that like oh shit this ain't good you

all based on whatever experiences he's had a responses that he's witnessed from his mother okay or like some sort of like they kind of get tense there gauging risk but just this thing steps in the road and just looks kind of like like this look on his face and I'm anthropomorphizing here but look on his face was like know what in the hell is that followed by utter lack of interest and just like left he's like he looked I don't know what that is I can't see this bring anything good to me and then wandered off and it was one of the weird like that's the only one I've seen look at that thing they don't even look real on him Tony what they're freaky they are so tall

like how tall this thing is like this High man so like two feet high yeah leggy though huge feet just a weird look you know they're like snowshoe hare specialist man they like to hunt snowshoe hare so it has big feet so they can get through no quiet Hunters yeah there's snowshoe hare special Cameron Haynes was telling me about bears that come out of hibernation and as they come out of hibernation is the same time where the Moose are stuck in the snow and that it's just start flying snow and so the Moose are like plotting and these bears come out and they haven't eaten anything in months because they just been hibernating but they see these moves and they can't help but kill him so they just go on these Rampages killing every moose they find and just leaving their carcasses because they can't really handle meet yet yeah and I got they but they like to have the opportunity at all they just their instincts he just because one day comes when they do come out you know they'll come out eat grass for a while eat vegetation but they do spend a lot of time following that they spend a lot of

looking for what we call Winter kill just Scavenging you know carcasses they can find and then they Hammer Hammer fawns and that's something people used to not realize about black bears is the high rates of like Fawn mortality given black bears on elk moose deer you know they don't think it doesn't seem like they really go after the adults like healthy adults under normal circumstances but they really find now that black bears just turn up and hit calves and fawns the way that no one ever thought before they smelled that placenta it's like yeah we need to have this idea of them as being kind of like the Kinder gentler bear you know but they're they know these spots they turn up in these spots before things turn up there to drop fawns you know II mountain lion or third Mount line I ever saw I saw cutting through a bunch of elk calves and a calving area you can just imagine how much the thing like that can clean house yeah goddamn when we were bear hunting I

to watch bears fight we watched a fucking no-holds-barred brawl between this female bear with her two Cubs oh really Hale who would come into the bait they would she fucking went to war man the Bears the baby's climbed up the trees they were way the fuck up the trees like to the point where we were worried one of them got real squirrely he was like kind of like upside down on the tree like it was way up there and they're really young and the adults can't climb because they get too heavy yeah and this big male come in and it was a big female and first the baby's ran up the tree and the female took off she left and then she was she just thought about it she so you know what fuck that and she turned around and attacked him turned around and challenged him and they both went up on their back legs and they were just going at it just right and we were sitting there on the ground because Cameron's fucking nuts he likes to hunt on the ground he looks up Ohio no treestand so we're just as like a tree that's fallen and we're set up behind this

three and we're watching these fucking you know 6 7 foot brown bears going to war right in front of us I mean no more than 30 40 yards away they were Duke yeah you gotta Be Wondering like in the middle of this fight I'll study comes rolling over and there's your ass sitting there yeah well I was knocked up man I had to an arrow nocked and you know but I've ever been I've ever like such a little kid when my earliest memory is not earliest memories but you're being a little kid and my dad got a phone call one night the one of his Hunting Buddies had was sitting on a bear bait what his bow and a sow came in with Cubs and smelled them and shoot her Cubs up a tree but they went up past him in the tree and then they started squealing and ball up there and she came up mauled his legs whoa yeah he went up in the hospital fuck yeah so she's up there small enough that she could make it up the tree she got a well she's opened up to get his boots yeah I mean a you know I mean most oh I don't know I

I've heard that that some black bears get too big to climb I mean they can climb pretty good and I don't know to what extent but I mean your typical bear is your typical black bear can get itself up a tree she went up a tree the one that we saw she went up a tree a little bit but only like maybe 5 or 6 feet were her kids went like yeah they were 50 feet yeah sure depends a lot on the circumference of the tree and whatnot but yeah for sure yeah but Grizzlies don't I mean they when they're young but when they get older they can't go up that tree yeah that's what they were saying they were because they had tree stands there but he likes to hunt on the ground but he said if you see a Grizzly then we go up the tree stand for sure yeah yeah there's a bunch right there was kind of like that that's cute but it was crazy to watch them duke it out like right there in front of us I mean it was white and went on for a while and then he would come back and she would chase him off again and then finally he gave up but then as it got darker she took off and then a bunch of bears came in it when it's dark that's when it's really crazy start calling Albert has flooded with bears man

they said that there's between depending on who you ask between three and eight per acre and they're dealing with 8,000 gonna acre per square mile will be super high per square mile the summit and they're dealing with 8,000 square miles so he said there's just bears everywhere and so the first time I got there you know we sat down we waited like we're all these fucking Bears you know if there's so many bears like you think you would see one and then when you see one and then you see another and you don't hear them that's what's crazy because the ground is thick with leaves and needles and stuff so literally all son is very severe like he's there on looking at you you know from 70 80 feet away you know just you didn't even see him coming Yesenia peers because it's so dense in the so many trees up there I was calling turkeys one time and had a bear come behind me you know like Predators when you're making when you're calling turkeys in the spring you're making hen noises to attract males track the Tom's but

there's will come to that noise and

I had a bear come in behind me that I never heard until I heard it breathe it sounded like a dude and you're on the ground sitting I'm sitting on the ground and I here

I mean this thing was I mean right there like like I could breathe over my shoulder how many feet

yeah like from 056 feet I'm just there but when I turned I was scared but that thing was more scared my turn he like turned himself inside out man just took off it was amazing wow feels funny we're talking about like bears climbing trees black bears and grizzly bears I wrote about this at some point but we are my brother and I were laying on this Ridge one time hunting elk and like during the midday when it's warm like nothing happens you know just go sleep somewhere and wait for the outcome back out they go into black Timber Just two feet to bend down so just really no sense and there's nothing you can do yes sleep and at one point I wake up and I hear a noise and I wake up there's a black bear standing there and he goes off down this Ridgeline and I'm sorry just goes down off the ridge down toward the valley floor that night we headed out to go hunt we headed out to go hunt elk and we happen to go in the direction that the Barrett went

my brother still had a bear attack I had filled my bare table he said a bear tag and as we're walking I hear the noise of its claws on the bark like real loud you know like barks fallen and scratching or did you manage like what a cat would sound like or something scratching up something

and like that must be that black bear

so we go hauling ass up the tree thinking that wool maybe get the bear up the tree and Bill check it out but run it there's not a black bear it's a sow Grizzly stand there and she's got two Cubs that are about four or five feet of this tree and she stand there at the base of the tree and she woofs at us like a dog like a hoof barking you know and those cubs come down the tree and we're just staying right there man is like you can't you never say it was close to getting scratched unless you got scratch because you don't know what's an animal's head but like reviewing it in my head that was one of that was like a very sketchy moment you know as that bear it's kind of like it's like the last thing you're supposed to do right as like mess with her Cubs here we are just run up on there and when she got those comes out of the tree and it's are going up the hill away from us she was taking her paw

and moving the Cubs with her paw

wow pushing him ahead of her

wow it's same way like you know you like trying to get your kids go we want your eyes have on your hand guys I got your hand on their head or yeah yourself trying to guide him you know yeah she's like get going on wow that was wild man but she could have spun around to scratch those well then she that's the big reason why a lot of people are hikers get attacked right it's a female with their cars coming across something yeah like I just this blew my mind I just read that not a single bow hunter has been killed by a grizzly bear you know while Bo honey even though boners get scratched up all the time like every year some guy getting scratched up not a single bow Hunters been killed by a grizzly bear in at least 20 years wow you know last year there was like three grizzly bear fatalities in Montana Wyoming well that was one of the things you saw on that hunt show was how difficult it is to bow hunt for Grizzlies because the first of all the Kodiak Island was very windy like these guys will like they were taking shots in the air oh would you look just take off and yeah miss the windy and this is miserable and wet you gotta get

clothes that's the thing be it's one thing like being a stand and waiting for a whitetail to walk underneath you but to creep up on a fucking giant 9-foot bear that's outside you gotta get within 30 40 yards of this thing and get an accurate shot on it and it's windy and everything there but now in that show when they're doing that this happens a lot but I know that like shows don't show it and outdoor writers don't write about it but oftentimes very often I can't say it's the majority of time at like a very common practice when a guy's bow hunting brown bears is the minute that Arrow

makes contact with that bear the guides lighten it up with like a 375 H&H so this shoot it with a gun right after their minute that Arrowhead yeah that's probably smart I mean I saw that on a show it was a bow hunting show with his guy shot a fucking elephant with a bow and the Elephant turn be like fuck you and elephant starts running it and boom they shot him in the head with a rifle and like he's going to call that I hunted an elephant with a bow like the fuck you did all you did was pissing elephant off and it charged you and these guides shot the elephant in the head they killed the elephant yeah I'm not damn it I'm not diminishing the balls it takes to get in there like I watch the thing like you know I watched thing where Tom Miranda you know kills like a big Grizzly was bow and by no I mean by any means like he it was like

he got a great head on that bear that bear ran and fell over I'm not saying that's what I'm saying you hear about it so often you talk to guide so often and even do it rifles right now in we got heads with the rifle he's gonna start pumping lead yeah this is so hard to Anchor them and then they go in those Alders and you don't want to lose them you don't want to go in there after him take the initial shot they consider you shot that bill and then everybody else in the guide you know whoever can can do a follow I really didn't like watching them shoot the elephant there's something to me about shooting some animals were it's like I don't get it like why I don't know why you would travel all the way to Africa to shoot an elephant with a bow while these people behind you rifle it and you call on that bow hunting I wouldn't shoot it I don't I couldn't shoot an elephant just because I don't like I don't have I didn't I don't have like a context with the animal a cultural context you know I'm saying like with North American animals

I found that generally when I go home so I'm not like to have X have experience with it and understand sort of you know understand it and it would for African hunting for me to like enjoy it on Africa I would probably want to go there just to have a look around

and be there right and then maybe go again just for me personally then go again and I might enjoy hunting more once I sort of felt like I understood the animals you know or I understood like more about the biology and the sort of like I just understood the area better would make me feel more like a like a like a like to what I want to have in a in a predator-prey relationship we're going down to film this year we're going down to Bolivia and we'll go out hunting with amerindians or go along on a hunt with amerindians and they go out and do meet hunts for capybara pakka they both fish for fish a lot one of the things they like to hunt is they like to hunt spider monkeys you know and I've always validate I'll never eat a monkey you know I saw his say that I'll never eat monkey but now I'm gonna be down there and he's guys you know presumably they're going to get a monkey they're going to cook and you going to try it I can't decide man yeah I'm not into eating primates I just feel like

you know I can't decide what I'll do when I'm sitting there I don't have to my dogs and didn't like it at all well you ain't a coyote which is crazy then they'd rather be like that didn't bother me in like an emotional way but I'm saying I tripped out emotionally about eating a dog right so I can't imagine what I might suffer to be chewing up a primate I'm not it's just like I remember reading one time and this kind of this explain us my brother the other day when I was talking about this is conundrum in rows read about a guy who was described he was describing no hunt for monkeys and a dude hit up and he was observing he was observing South in Old South American tribal owners are Amarin he's observing them honey monkeys in a monkey got shot in the back

and a monkey with a dart and the monkey reached around and grab the dart

whoa so it's that image I'm just so burning my head but I think like I don't know what I'll do man I'd be curious I'll be curious if the guys I work with that they want to eat the monkey or not yeah but there's so many weird things are you go like this so these guys are indigenous Hunters okay they hunt they make their own Bolsa live in a jungle like any kind of thing like if you went out and surveyed a hundred Americans a hundred would say like by all means if anyone can justify hunting to be these boys all right they're going to be they're hunting whether you're with them or not so it's kind of like you look at well monkeys dead now yeah I guess I could see that I what I couldn't see is going there with a purpose to go shoot a monkey I guess if I was there experiencing what it is like for them and also if they offered me a mug of his part of like you're taking into their home and they booking you a meal and they ask you you know they serve you what they eat maybe then I would

no there's no way I'd shoot there's no way I'd shoot a monkey yeah and by saying that I don't think that one shouldn't be allowed and whatever you know just depends on the the consensus of biologists and whatever area whether it can warn it or not but no I wouldn't it just like I couldn't yeah I couldn't either but I know that they have issues with baboons and people do not Africa it's just I guess I can't get it but in Africa you get the sense that people view like baboons almost like how you might like

hey to save almost like you'd like look at like raccoons and opossums that are getting into your dumpster yes but they they'll kill a baby oh kill human beings all right Dolan human I don't know the first thing about yeah Cameron Haynes are just got back from Africa he shot a fucking baboon over there shot a baboon with a bow and arrow and I'm like why don't you shoot a baboon and he's like they actually encourage you to shoot ya baboons as possible because they're overpopulated and they're really dangerous as a friend of mine stole my man do the guys in after you eat the baboons no they don't need two baboons and they don't need to hyenas and then like the hyenas now they kill him the kill them whenever they can because they're so overpopulated but they don't eat them but he ate a kudu he shot a kudu over there and eat that he said it was amazing now the cuckoo is like similar I guess in a lot of ways to deer elk and the way it tastes there's the word overpopulated is such a weird word and in such an abuse works whenever I hear that I was gonna be like according to whose perspective right because again and again we're told Ike dear overpopulated like yeah I mean

from the perspective of some agricultural interests dear overpopulated from the perspective of Auto insurers you know dear overpopulated from the perspective of Lyme disease activist you know dear over pilot but perspective of dude likes to eat a lot of deer you might be like now's the good old days man and I'm like this is perfect if I lived in some areas there's some areas of Western Massachusetts at are so flooded with dear I would definitely have one of those crazy bumpers on my truck yeah you know they have those crazy big steel brush guards yeah they will they make them specifically for deer to withstand a deer hit yeah there was one of them that they we pulling up photos of the other day of 18-wheelers that they have these giant ones they put over the front of their trucks because dear you know so common in a lot of these areas where they're transporting stuff and they had one where this deer at just it had hit it in the guard did its job but the fucking entire truck which is painted with blood you know because all like the five miles an hour and you hit an animal it's basically

bag of blood vaporize vaporize him such a disturbing way I recently wrote a thing about this on the on the mediator show website where I was talking about these recent controversies were some will go and kill African animal like a lot goes picture frame by the way tell people where they can get that because I loved your perspective on it and I loved one of the things you pointed out about you seen all these things or people getting pissed off these pretty girls are going over there and shooting these animals and a lot of it is sexism oh yeah man it pit for a girl to go to African hunt pisses off people way more than for a dude to and also for a wealthy person hunting Africa pisses off way more people than a middle-class person hunting in Africa which is just weird like you know it's so beyond the biology is just like weird

you know sexual stuff it's weird Envy class Envy hmm however you want to think like whatever you want to determine about the legitimacy of hunting in Africa she really have nothing to do with the gender of the hunter yeah but the thing is like one point I tried to make an IT thing that I wrote you could you could find if you just go on you could probably even type in like Stephen rennell African hunting controversy or go to the to the meat eater.com you'll find the article but a point I make is when people look at

someone posing with an African animal like a lion they I think people look at and they feel like they see a dead movie star because they don't know like all you know of that animal is sort of wildlife documentaries and then cartoon versions and The Lion King it's like you feel like you're looking at that but in America we drive down the road and we see just like contorted pulverized deer carcasses yeah you can't escape it yes yeah and so I feel like it's never going to be as offensive yeah well someone sees a dead deer it's not as shocking to them as be like it's the animal from the movies right right they killed it you know anthropomorphizing of an animal's a real issue when it comes really feels the people more like I remember a friend of mine who worked in the environmental movement I shouldn't say that because as she was a conservationist okay so we're in the conservation movement and she complained about

half-jokingly about charismatic megafauna so that so much mental energy of Americans gets tied up in the preservation of charismatic megafauna and those things become such money sinks that we miss

opportunities to understand like this vast Suite of other creatures out there that doesn't make it onto calendars and she was if I remember I think she was speaking of the amount of research dollars and dollars in public interest and things that go into wolves like understanding wolves you know and there's all the other animals that she called is like non charismatic megafauna you just can't get someone to like care about them yeah you know like that's that's one is as far as conservation because I think that's one thing that that conservation organizations that are based off of specific animals laws tires it they're looking at like Apex or Keystone Cornerstone species so like a group like the national Wild Turkey Federation of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation they will point out the be like yeah this is about elq we have an elk on our symbol you might think that we fetishize out but I can tell you this what's good for Elk is good for everybody yeah you know it's one of the most demanding like least tolerant things and so if you

Elka wintering habitat you're also at the same time preserving the habitats and so many other species and you might not say the same thing about if you went and preserve the habitat of you know some animals are more restricted home range or something it might not blossom outward to offer protection for all these other things so that's one way in which like the charismatic megafauna thing winds up playing out is people go like yeah but by helping him I'm helping everybody so I'd like to have something I'm for my calendar people have that aversion to trophy hunting that's one of the other things that drives people nuts about Africa as a people going over there for bloodlust they're going over there just to kill they want to stuff it and put on the wall this beautiful animal that should just be observed and appreciate it for what it is yeah that's something that I struggle with an earlier I made a turn about something being like like like a semantics thing because

if you go and hunt and you keep something like you have right here in your studio of a deer antler you gotta like a deer skull right by really any definition you'd say like you'd be like well that's a hunting trophy you know does that make you then a hunting trip Like A Trophy Hunter even though you ate the deer to be a non troppo Hunter would that mean that you should have thrown that deer head in the garbage in order to be more peer or is it more peer that you'd have that you maintain that emblem and pay respect to the animal in perpetuity by having its head here so it's like you kept a trophy you kept the meat and Cup trophy but when people hear Trophy Hunter I think what the what that means in our culture is that someone the just hunts for that purpose like he just wants to go kill that thing and this come from guys never hunted Africa but so much of the controversy about Africa is that people are going there and killing animals just for the head

and bringing them home in that way you're probably trivializing the experience but you're also not really looking at the broad picture of how game gets managed their and the importance that the commodification wildlife plays in Africa where here we have public tone publicly-owned Wildlife you know so and we have a really strident system where stringent system where we can protect legally protects us but in Africa there's a great argument to be made for if it wasn't for the value of those animals to westerners if it wasn't for the hunting industry those animals wouldn't be in those places where they are yeah there's will only reinforce those animals are way too many forces and factors that would have led to those being like ravaged ecosystems from hunting from people I mean honey front people who are starving or who are wanting to graze Livestock in those areas and the fact that you bring in a currency and you monetize them enables people to preserve these large

land and have animals on there so you can look at like what is Joe Blows motivation Joe Blows motivation might be he thinks it'd be sweet to have a zebra hide on his floor and you can condemn Joe Blow for thinking that but you really to be fair you have to look at the impact that that money that he spent to get it has on the broader economy and on the wildlife politics of that place so it's way more complicated than what anyone individuals motivations were you know and it's just I just coughed people and I tell you what I've had my share of looking at pictures of guys hunting in Africa and being like dude you just went out and paid someone you shorty you that's and you're like well that's what one of those is and shot I felt that a thousand times looking at those pictures but it's one of those things that the more I've learned about it and spoke to people who've gone there and read about it the more I've come to admit that

what what's going on in Africa is vastly more complicated than what you're going to get from reading about internet controversies people posting pictures you really need to study up on that stuff before you condemn acts I think you'll be you'll be kind of shocked by some of the stuff you learn if anybody's interested in further we're just about out of time but Luis Arroyo has a documentary through how do you say Stan through through Louis through has a documentary about African hunting camps where kind of goes into great detail with these guys that run these camps about Sarah animals they essentially wouldn't be there if it wasn't they would be extinct but we're out of time okay all right dude your book you got that the Buffalo books published oh no you know my first book

which never had a chance in the real world scavengers guide to 0 Cuisine it came out long time ago by got the rights to it back right and I published it digitally as the Scavengers guide I hope people go read it and never got red on it came out like not like my other books did man and I feel like I said they just gave me my rights back how did we get it how can someone get it oh it's on every place you can buy digital books okay we'll put Wings on everywhere will put a link up to it after the show and I also put a link up to the Daniel Boone thing that you did the animated thing sweet man that's great yeah that was just up to the time flew it's over hey thank you for having me anytime anytime wish you lived closer we do it all the time well you are kind of closer now and we're gonna be real close and we're sharing the same tent pretty close all right folks thanks to our sponsor thanks to Blue Apron go to Blue Apron.com Rogan and get two meals for free thanks also to meet undies go to me undies.com forward slash Rogan get 20% off your first order and go to Rome

that teen.com and get 25 bucks off of any Ting device all right you fox will be back soon tomorrow in fact see you soon bye