#1250 - Johann Hari

Feb 20, 2019

Johann Hari is a writer and journalist. His new book “Lost Connections” is available now.

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thousands of verified 5 Star reviews I love it I use it all the time and they're getting back by over 20,000 Dental professional it starts at just $25 when you go to get quip.com Rogan so get your first free free get you first refill pack for free with a quip electric toothbrush that's at getquip.com Rogan getquip cam Rogan my guest today is an author he he's written several books one of them called chasing the scream at we're going to talk about today about the drug war and addiction and the causes of these things please welcome Johann Hari

The Joe Rogan Experience

ichive talk slow because we are in Tyson where you suddenly realized I was once in a while and I hop in Cactus Arizona and I was saying to the women right like I'll have some pancakes when it was going to be three minutes you guys do you speak English like I was saying Arizona's a strange place I really love Arizona there's great Parts like Phoenix is amazing Tucson's great place to but it's a wild west sort of a state it's one of those weird hold over states that have a lot of weird old school laws like like I think you could just walk around with a gun experience in Phoenix was in Arizona infant was going out

the group for women who would like to come out on a chain gang wearing t-shirt saying I was a drug addict when members of the public and I don't get you off now thankfully but yeah and it was a deeply with play it's weird lot of really nice people but it's a hundred fifty thousand degrees until I conditioning was invented rival are you okay because the only reason anyone ever woken feed a text with base of the if you'll call her like a tomato a Brazilian look at my body I'm lost

is albino color red Brown Hues and swiss never saw my friend Jamie was over my house once and he's not this friend Jamie different Jamie who's up British as well and my daughter who is at the time I think she was like 10 or something like that she goes she goes to you on my watch was mommy he's so white and she and she goes yeah she was no no like he's white like paper

Jamie White like paper how much we appreciate the English Center of the English accent is like one of the best tools for selling things to very gullible Americans whether it's like benefit from constant posted discrimination in the United States all my God you got to cater your moral well read the more aware of the world's driving to you much better quality than you actually have but what is it work in Reverse like in in England what is the reaction to American accents is it it's mostly discussed right

I know there's a mixture of Americans because we grow up constantly looking at the United States right way constantly staring three most in American culture sing like a reflection of the queen or whatever but there isn't that two-way dialogue did they raise a weird I think we feel very American right I spent off the deep cultural differences they just thought of this is really not my culture right and it's over those moments of disorientation I really strange give me one example

well this is a question Americans ask all the time but I have literally never heard of European ass right as the question what's your story has crusty right when passing coming out tomorrow I'll go or kid in West Baltimore and you can say interrogation are extremely hostile question what's your story you just wouldn't have a say it but we don't Americans Naruto dies by Logic episode 11 is a generalist what depression addiction and you want people to talk about the lysosome unbelievable gifty right people will tell you so I don't want to be on a bus in Mississippi and sitting next to a woman and within 5 minutes of chat until she told me about like had two miscarriages have a mother hated her and I thought if we were Swiss where my dad's from you wouldn't tell me this until we got married and maybe not even that right

Panda and storytelling among Americans is one of the best things about this despacito fucked up an amazing place right now open this is very different about this place than a year of anywhere in Europe now when you talk to people in England you guys don't have the same level of social social media but of reality television you have some like big brother but you don't have it to the extent that we have it here right yeah I haven't really been taken over by route from Concord the whole couch or in that way but he's a reality television present but he sort of a game show host president but that's how I used to describe myself and Fear Factor they like you host a reality show my sort of it's a gameshow it's just a fucked-up game show it's like if Trump was hosting a game show essentially right it was a contest it wasn't like keeping up with the

that's a true reality show because there is literally nothing going on other than these people's lives and whatever orchestrated bulshit they put in to make it more interesting but I think that's part of the thing I was getting to about Americans always wanted to give you their narrative there was one to give you the story of their life so when someone says what's your story there to have it ready you know because it's almost like we feel like we're in some sort of a small television show all the time or some sort of small production it's like almost part of are who we are American things have a star that are British people or certain

how to put it like this is some kind of self-deprecation your tour is a British person you're going to have to unlearn it living here so I won't be examples of the story so maybe it's not true but I remember years ago so we had these terrible Subway bombings in 2005 she remembered for young British men go into the London on the ground in 50 people jihadis try to do the same thing but they haven't built very well so they go down into the subway and disallow bang but it doesn't connect with the dead tonight so so obviously people freak the fuck out as you can imagine right and maybe maybe this is a story that someone told that wasn't a bridge card set remember rightly three of the bomb is escape on the escape on the Titanic or later one of them in the story chases after

JJ's text after the guy for ages while everyone else is running the fuck away and catches the guy any Frozen to the ground and we said to him was that the virus that says to the attempted suicide bomber you read man right during the riots we had in 2011 in London there was one place where they break into a luxury good store and they could only make extra strong window so they could you make a hole in the corner of the window and it was called on the security cameras that the riot is formed the line to go in and loot the store right that's how deep I think he well you were the fool me right back

have your people write you guys don't have Black Friday sales do you just started talking to other Black Friday right there's something about those deals when people get that bargain and then they open that door ready go and people pile through all Humanity gets tossed aside I stay kitchen lights the fucking Financial desperation order American is rice a little bit of that but it's also the competitive nature of those things we trying to grab the few remaining items are 25% off and even saving for the TV for 6 months and there it is right in front of you and you charge people are fighting left and right it's awful terrible way for people to interact with each other

so what are you here for me the book addiction and the War on Drugs in the last time you added to it. 5 years old now and will David lisenby stuff now but isn't trying to wake up one of my relatives and not being able to understand why then cuz

I was writing chasing the scream of the drug without condition terrible State and I was trying to figure out what to do nothing I was doing was working nothing I was doing was helping me but then told them to speak Janet took three years of trouble every 30000 miles I wanted to sit with you know the people who been through addiction addiction and I would sit with all these women inmates got on chain gangs and humiliated and tormented Vietnam where they make people with addiction problems coming to the camps and the place is Portugal with a decriminalized all drugs and incredible results

Switzerland where they legalize heroin incredible results and transgender the smartest people I know it's a hit man for the deadliest Mexican drug cartel and he's definitely not one of the smartest people I know

sorry about your what we've been told about this for so long now hundred years since we started fighting the War on Drugs in this country and there's any place on the rest and isn't what we think is the War on Drugs isn't we think a Sunday alternative to the War on Drugs on what we think they are open sockets Hall exciting of a set of possibilities the main reason why people assume the people do drugs to escape reality what do you think is the the primary things are running from experience was pretty bad in catastrophic Addiction in the main drug will buddy in the world the UN office of drug control admits that 90% of all County band drug use is what they called non-problematic to the person isn't addictive

I will come back to that okay 90% is recreational use when people use cuz it makes their lives better than you at work or at ranges in a whole range of the whole range of illegal drugs in most cases I've got a problem right what's going on I'm one of the things that were deeply my mind in the research of chasing the scream was realizing I had deeply misunderstood what addiction is I have misunderstood the thing I thought I have been sitting in front of me since I was a kid right so nice people that think about close to me

most people if we stop the next 20 people to walk past juul while the clues in the name the Dipset right how are wrinkles is heroin addiction we've been told this story 400 years it's become totally part about our common sense right we think if we took them that we took the next 20 people after that and we'll pass the studio and we injected with Heroin everyday for a month at the end of that month old be heroin addicts for simple reason that chemical hooks in heroin that that bodies would start to desperately physically need an addiction is right is this physical hunger for the chemical hook inside the drug right and there's some reality to chemical hooks they exist they're real but very small part of what's going on wrong with that story we've been told

if you step out into the street and you get hit by a truck and you break your hip you'll be taken to hospital and it would give me loads of a drug called diamorphine diamorphine is heroin writes the medical name for heroin is the stuff will be given hospital is much better than the shirt you bought on the street cuz it's medically-related is right but it's just caused by exposure to the drug what should be happening to all these people in British hospitals have been given lights of this podcast please go to British grandmother he's had a hip replacement operation your grandmother is taking a shit ton of heroin right and if what we think is right that diction is caused primarily by exposure to chemical looks like these people should be leaving hospital in trying to score on the streets right this is been study break never happens right

I just seems so weird to me I thought I couldn't possibly betray right how could it be you got someone in hospital bad he's taking loads of really potent her and they don't become addicted and in the alleyway outside you got someone is using actually a week of form of the drug he becomes addictive how can that be what's happening here I don't understand it when I went back to the priests Alexander you didn't experiment that really transform time you think about diction all of the weather for the new way of thinking lights of new evidence so explain to me this story that we've been right addiction is caused by the chemical hooks primarily comes from a series of experiments were done earlier in the 20th century that really simple experiments your view is can try them behind it that feeling a little bit shity today right you take a rap

you put in a cage and give it to water bottles one is just water and the other is water laced with either heroin or cocaine you might remember in the 1980s was a famous partnership for Drug Free America add that the shows this experiment and The Rock in this cage starts to drink the water and almost always kills itself within a week or two right so that you got a story that you're supposed to drug it takes you and then you just die right in the seventies Professor Alexander comes along and we put these rights alone in an empty cage they got nothing makes life meaningful rats right what would happen if we did this differently so that he could wrap Park which is basically like having four rights right they got lots of friends like a cheese that has a colored bowls they can have lots of sex

normal border and the music compulsively none of them are from almost 100% compulsive you send death by other days when that lives of shity To None when they have two things to make like me to put those loads of human examples I'm sure we'll we'll talk about the opposite of addiction is not surprised he the opposite of addiction is connection we have to ask yourself what are the context in which people become addicted to some contacts what people find these drugs extremely addictive and there are some contacts but they don't become addicted out of this something the drug Place overall Chemical X real I can do that they play some role surprisingly small role of a small amount of what's going on

time is right parked there was an experiment going on that everyone listen to this with the Vietnam war in Vietnam American troops be using heroin crack down on cannabis and so people admit to having the sniffer dogs can detect parentheses lays cannabis so I can look what people said at the time the authorities the Nixon White House they were shooting themselves cuz I like they believe this chemical hooks theory of addiction so they like talk when this war ends we can have you know you're half a million Aeronautics on the streets of the United States does a really good study that followed these these Manheim

I found that the vast majority of them just stopped right didn't go inside then go to rehab most of them didn't go into withdrawal some of them had an uncomfortable flu like symptoms but most of them just don't know if you believe the soul Theory the chemical hooks take you over that makes no sense but you understand what you saying in the old and new evidence about addiction I go through chasing the scream it makes it makes perfect sense right do me everyone in this area if I took any of us and put us in a horrific pestilential jungle we don't want to be and I made you kill a lot of people and potentially die any moment you would find heroin much more appealing than you do now right if we want to understand why people turn to painkillers we go to understand why they're in pain right cord addiction slavery I learned from these amazing especially the core of addiction

it's about not wanting to be present in your life because your life is too painful a place to be and once you understand that you can see why what we've been doing is such a disaster right cuz this Theory we have with the War on Drugs think about Arizona we can talk about that more like I said I went to this nightmare prison prison in in Phoenix Arizona what people are humiliated in this part of the theory behind the war on drugs did you go to inflict pain on them to give them an incentive to stop right but once you understand the pain is the primary cause of addiction you can see why sometimes people say that doesn't work truth is much worse right that makes addiction was those women I went out with and spent all that time with her you know she milliamp in that prison

come back from being on the train guy where they have to sometimes they have to dig Graves they went to another day I was there they have to collect garbage they are one of the days I was dead but we come back normally with prisons

what's a journalist I don't want to show you anything right you do you like you have to pee really finagle to get them to show you anything in this prison and it's like a pantomime of Cruelty they want to show it to the whole point is to the women I've been talking to on the man we're really terrified of what I could but how high is the solar tree plug and so I said the gods will you show me the Halo show the cigarettes that the hull

and these women who played the most trivial infractions like having a cigarette it's literally a hole right it's like a concrete block you on your own there's nothing in it is a tiny window we can see sunlight no TV nothing I'm speaking to women who was in this and saw anything King

this is the closest you could get

twin exact human Recreation of the cages that guaranteed addiction and rats right and this is what we doing thinking it will stop these women being addicted it's just a wee bit. The gavel mate an amazing guy said to me you know if negative consequences. Addiction that would be a single addict in the world not injured so we got this perspective results of that rat experiment one because he's been parotid as this is the proof positive that these drugs are so terrible for you but once they figured out that if you take those rats and put them in a wonderful place and they don't have addiction it really does make you step back and go okay what is exactly going on here obviously there's chemical hooks they are real life people that are on sustained prolonged use of opiates especially people with back injuries have an incredibly difficult time Kik

even really positive people don't necessarily have off alive but it's it's one of those things that gets in your head and then you sort of parrot it you've heard it you repeat it but the reason why I ask you a question like what what is what is the cause for most people you believe it's an unfulfilled life or a painful life or painful self-image or remorse for your past or like what is it that did we have like primary reasons or primary attributes that we attached to these people that are drug-addicted recent book lost connections uncovering the real causes of depression in the unexpected Solutions is is about the cord addiction is about trying to deal with pain right but the causes of human pain obviously huge

what island is the scientific evidence of annoying causes a deep despair right now depressed or addicted that can make it harder to get out right at most of the factors are causing this despair on not fact is not biology that fact is in the way we live it doesn't cover all of the causes the eye Island Battle of connections but they have natural physical needs obviously right you need food quickly right but it's equally strong evidence the old human beings have natural psychological means you need to feel you belong

you need to fill the people see you in front of you you you need to be a future that makes sense and this culture we built is good at lots of things that I'm really glad to be alive today. I'm glad to be alive now don't laugh. He's got a lot of evidence that we've been getting less and less good at meeting these deep underlying psychological even with a lot of really good people are profoundly misunderstanding what's happening with the ER PR crisis where is the opioid crisis happening in New Hampshire why is one thing so disastrous that why is that much higher opioid Addiction in West Virginia that on the faculty of David Wright everyone that has good health insurance that have much better access what's going on it's amazing economist's Angus Dayton and an case that a massive study of this and they said that we

understanding guy. X 9 is what they call deaths of Despair right it's not a coincidence that the place is a pure addiction is highest suicide rate is highest antidepressant prescriptions the highest it's a whole these things are clustering together for a reason right and you don't have to spend much time in those places to see people through no fault of their own have I like the rats not first kind right they have been deprived of the things that might like medieval doesn't make Chemical X don't play some role they do play a role I've been to the places I saw this and it wasn't just to come fix it up so I can understand the relationship is very strong a scientist the most powerful chemical hook we know is nicotine a cigarette smoke cigarettes the thing you feel physical craving for when you stop with my mother would never to is is nicotine chemical hook

and so in the late eighties when nicotine patches were invented like cigarette smoking is an addiction to the chemical nicotine now we can get people all the chemical hook they're addicted to weed out any of this shity cancer-causing smoke people are going to start to my kid right so nicotine patches are introduced in the US surgeon general's report couple of days later finds highly motivated people using nicotine patches 17% of them will stop smoking right now supposed to say that is not nothing right that means if you meet the chemical hook the people who are addicted to cigarettes 70% of the most stopping party that's a big deal right that saved a huge number people's lives obviously 17% is not a hundred percent that leaves 83% to go to be explained by the other things not to talk about in a lost connection so I mean is a whole range of

lonely we have a lonely and Society that's ever been right you are much more likely to be vulnerable to dispatch depression addiction if you are controlled and humiliated at work which most people now off to some degree mobile durable to these things there's a whole Ranger go through none of these these factors in the most important thing thinking about the opioid crisis and I find it really frustrating that says never discussed in the American debate is been to the place that solves it all. Prices that had a disastrous opioid crisis and ended it right and they did something that's very different to Americans are being urged to do

so I'm a Swiss citizen,. When I saw this whistling well and by the time you get to the year 2000 Switzerland is nightmare right videos from the time but can I people like Swiss people obsessed with order invented clocks like in that public parks people like injecting in the neck like nightmare scenes right stop at anywhere but the Swiss people this is like the worst nightmare right and they try all sorts of things I tried the American way arresting people punishing people shaming people and it just keeps getting worse and worse and then one day they got this incredible women call Ruth dreifuss lights at he becomes a minister of Health in the president the first ever female president Switzerland

she explains to people I think the solution is to legalize heroin she said legalization you picture is anarchy and Chaos she said what we have now is anarchy and Chaos right we have unknown criminals selling unknown chemicals to unknown drug users in the dark or filled with violence disease and Chaos legalization she explained it the way we were store order to this map that's right that's the way it works is almost No One Believes we should legalize heroin the way alcohol cannabis legal right now one thinks I should be a heroine oil in CVS that's not the plan right if you had a problem you were selling to a clinic I went to the one in Geneva

for president with rattlesnakes opposite is collecting that tells you something and across the street across the street if you see the clinic so you have to go to the clinic at 7 in the morning cuz Swiss people believe in doing things really fucking idiots posted this agreement between me and my dad you turn up the carbon they give you a holler in there they could you medically Pure Heroine you can't take it out with you and you go to use it that part because I don't want to sell it on but my knee cuz I want a Moana to you to make sure you made it nice you use it that and then you leave to go to your job because you're giving load support to get housing work and therapy to figure out why you come back to be present in your life right it's really important catinis it's nice to think is the opposite of the drug and get the massive amounts of help to deal with

reasons why they need that truck I want to give him the drug of the injection I give you the heroin and I'll give you a clean syringe one of these are you surprised me a really weird is they will give you any choice of heroin that you want a pop from on that would kill you and there's never any pressure to cut back and yeah I wouldn't know but it was 13 years after this it first started and there was always nobody on the program from the stock about three people who've been there the whole time almost everyone. Scott back and stop by the time the best thing to I reach him and he's the chief psychiatrist that will

how can I because we're told the chemical fix take you while you need more more if you have an unlimited Supply you would just carry on how do you explain this to me like I was dying and she said well we help them in their lives get better and it's your life gets better you don't want to be annexed the price so much right explain the results of the Space Program in the fetus 15 years now in the 15 years since this began according to the best scientific evidence action. B 0 deaths stats on legal heroin not one person has been a massive full address that's outside the legal program cuz people transfer in cuz why would you carry on using expensive city street drugs when you could be getting you no help on getting the drug for free

fastest route to make Donald Trump look like Oprah Swiss people after this has been in practice for five years out of referendum on whether to get rid of it and 70% of Swiss people voted to keep paralegal know cuz that's a compassionate to be honest but then it was crying so much right it's much cheaper to write it but there was something like a 50% fall in street street crime ended right there was no street signs that women don't want to be on the street being fucked by random strangers but if I don't like an alternative who Nick about the Simpson crime across-the-board and please confirm that everyone agrees with the in Switzerland at all the kind of Anarchy in the streets just just stop right this is really relevant to the opioid crisis is what we're doing is the exact opposite right so they do the drug get them help to figure out why practical

call to change their environment to get out of the Icelandic Asian into a life that's more like what do we do if you'll talk to in this country finds out that you are using say percocet or oxy not because you go back pain but because you got an addiction has to cut you off and make people that nice very large number then transfer to much more dangerous street drugs like heroin we give you a criminal record with Shane you with stigmatized barriers between you and reconnecting the opposite of addiction is connection but what do we do we put barriers between people and reconnecting where we doing exactly the opposite of the country that succeeded in ending in Sy. Epidemic but there's something I think is even deeper than that what you really see in places

what kind of parts of the word crisis which is also creating a society is becoming harder and harder for people to be present and especially in those in those places is an analogy I keep thinking out in the in the 18th century in Britain loads of people with driven out of the countryside into these disgusting Urban slums in like London and Manchester and something happened it's been well-documented their cycle the Gin craze right but basically shitload of people just became alcoholics drink gin until they died right that's the famous painting for the time go gin Lane of a mother down in like a bottle of vodka while the baby like fools out the window right and things like that happening at the time now they said look at this evil drug Jen look what it's fucking done to us if only we can get rid of this evil drugs in this problem will go away right we know it kind of

Jen Nichols that because anyone in Britain who's over the age of 18 can go and buy genright and while we still have some alcoholics to be sure we don't have nice epidemics and I'll call his me to have babies falling out of Windows what changed wasn't the amount of available availability of the drug the drug is more available now that Society right we don't have any disorientated or not because we're creating more disorientation if you create a society with people's basic psychological needs are not met right where they have shrinking number friends and social connections with a life is about money and buying shit and displaying it on Instagram

she's made where they spend most of the time jobs they find unfulfilling controlling and humiliating you're going to create growing pools of people who call anybody in insecure financially insecure half of all Americans have been able to set aside $500 for an emergency comes along insecurity in the society very large numbers of people

what a feeling it's a nice the ties himself now that's not a good solution good solutions to these problems but crazy solution either the time is British singer with Mick Jagger annoyingly that's why people remember she's much better than the wrong but

she said heroin saved my life cuz if it wasn't the heroin I would have killed myself at that point right now is not saying her and me to get solution to homelessness but we couldn't understand this drug use is happening because it performs a function right what am I still think I left the Pipe Scream and lost connection is that these forms of Despair depression anxiety addiction meaningful signals right they are telling us something the fact that they have been rising year after year after year that we now at the point where the average white male life expectancy is full moon in this country for the first time in the entire piece on History of the United States nice a signal that is telling us something that's because of drug addiction and I the other factors going on Black Eyed Peas today but that the main Drive is suicide an insulting that signal

I've been saying depressed people addicted people are just weak or we've been saying I was just a problem in that brain that there are real things going on in the brain schools or we've been saying you know it's just craziness in fact it is largely a response to the way we are close to other things going on this one and we can talk about them

once you understand that you realize this go to be a deeper spot that I went to places that don't know to Switzerland Switzerland what is the overall population 5 1/2 million total smoke a very small country ham how much money do they have to spend to keep this program going in what is a time constraint in terms of like how long is a person who's got an addiction problem allowed to stay there and receive treatment if you want to practice that doesn't happen very they stay in the facility that everyday or whatever they want to you can go twice a day and it's free people once they have jobs that pay health insurance and health insurance if you don't have money than they pay for it by the month is it was fascinating as they found it wasn't Joann set a good research on the sides

police constantly harassing people putting them in prison putting them on trial those are really expensive in-state Harvey is unbelievable cheap if you buy it legally be reduced lunch at the person with the diction better and makes the life of order of other citizens who would not take to better and it saves money right which is 1 Swiss people are very pragmatic the know you know the most compassionate people but they are very pragmatic people that's why it was so popular that don't drug policies right I think it's time we can learn from that as well to Portugal around the time switch lanes having a terrific heroin crisis Portugal is having a fucking nightmare by the year 2001 percent of the population is addicted to heroin which is incredible right and every year they would like Swiss then they were trying the American way Shane punishment stick my I think she just kept getting worse and worse and worse

then one day the prime minister is the leader of the opposition got together another day we can't go on like this where we can at where we going today and they decided to do something really radical Celine I want it done since the drug will be done in this country 70 years before they said should be like awesome scientist what the best thing to do would be to myself a panel of scientists and doctors like an amazing man I got to know how do you store near Payson he'd run the first of a drug treatment center in in Portugal founded after that a tight ship and I said to them and figure out what the hell week and a half or two years they lied about Rat Pack they let Eliza things and they come back and they say i k

solution is weed decriminalized all drugs for cannabis to crack but and this is the crucial Next Step take all the money we currently spend a fucking people up arresting them shaming them imprisoning them and spend all that money instead antenna lights around and interesting that's not really what we think of as drug treatment here in the United States right so they do some residential rehab that have some value painting that it was a big program of job creation for people with addiction problems saying used to be a mechanic the go to the garage and sap employee this guy for years will pay half his wages get much cheaper than sending in prison right at the small lines so people with addiction problems could set up and run businesses the things that I thought were important at a time people are crazy that you can spend it on drugs Lunas and by the time I went to Portugal it was again 13 years has gotten the results with addiction was down by 50%

that's when my Steely Dan HIV was massively down every single indicator right maximum Prima. One of the reasons you're not wet so well it's virtually no One Imports go on Skype. I went in and speed great God who are the time of the decriminalization what's the top drug caught in the whole country

and he said I'm sure loves you as soon as I thinking right all the time which is like if we decriminalized all drugs explosion and drug use I want to see him by the O'jays on the screen website he said that sound like

everything I said what happened didn't happen at everything the other side said what happened did I told you how I felt really a shame that it's been so many years prior to the decriminalization screen people's lives up when it could have been helping them tender loins around and this is something that I saw that you can get rid of they have mass really terrible Rising problems the places that have policies based on Mckellips restore order to the market and its Liberty to drug use has and love and compassion of practical help people with addiction problems have declining drug problems right again not perfect but it was such a significant part is none of them want to go back right that tells you something when they did this in Switzerland what was the primary cause for this drug addiction and how did they deal with

that's what they dealt with it in Portugal with these loans and helping up businesses by paying for half the salary and all those things like that seems like a wonderful idea what do they do in Switzerland to sort of mitigate one of the issues whatever the issues were they're causing people to be drug addicts in the first place so it's a combination the gay people. One of the people I spent some time in that clinic have been terribly sexually abused as a lot of evidence that giving survivors of sexual abuse safe places in which they can release the shame about that leads to a big fold and depression addiction and other problem is it's a big driver of a lot of diction for a lot people that claim everyone some of it was just a people who have never been given a chance in life I have never had stabilized it was kind of mixture of things and I think it's pretty good about the solar system is it wasn't saying in this kind of cookie cutter wide open up offensive drug treatment in the United States has plenty good examples as well

this is your problem we're here to tell you your problem I have to solve your problem it's very much Guided by the person themselves right people who are in deep pain to listen to the right we think about this addiction depression in the way that we should see them as signals that telling us something must you pull things to listen to the signal right I'm about to experience thinking about all the time I was writing a bit lost connections about depression light in the day that I realize why I kept thinking about it so much

I was in Vietnam about 5 years ago did this really stupid thing I was I was in her know and I was really tired I was doing research for different put the finished yet and what side of the road so this big red apple woman selling it and I'm feeling so tired like $5 for the ticket back to my hotel site I lay on the bed and I stopped eating and it was just gross try this thing really really that's chemical taste it was like how I imagined that food would taste after nuclear war with Iran News wrong I ate like half of it in the garbage and next like four days I was just violently sick right I like you just like something for The Exorcist truck liner for the CNN and occasionally projectile vomiting and it gets light food poisoning before Fried Chicken in my 20s I was not new to this radio and after about four days

I said to Hawaii on my fixing translator who is Red Nose Day to introduce two bodies of the world Vietnam or something I'm like look for another 3 days or whatever it was I could have got to meet these people say drives me like six or seven hours into the countryside imma get that he's mine. These people think the interview and I'm actually sitting in this hot with this this woman only person from ability to survive the Vietnam War so I'm talking to her

and she's picking up the room starts to I've never had this feeling before you're drunk when you feel like I didn't feel like I just like explode all over her heart is just about to head your way right into him and he says she says you could only woman who survived the Vietnam War in this Village I'm going to listen to her health advice of yours were going to the hospital yesterday it was disgraced Vietnam if he dies then right

Angela jabbing me with everything and I'm out what's going on and the ask me those questions and I felt the most noisiest ever felt right I kept saying to them give me something for the English and the doctor said to me

you need your nausea it will tell us what's wrong with you come about to die but I've been killed by an apple I'm like Eve or light snow white or like Alan Turing and then I was like you're about to die in your lost or if they are basically pretentious come or if I bought us up when I leave if I come back to her did you leave at 10:20 today what happens if my kidneys to start working days just like I have been in the desert for 40 days

certificate at 6. Actually affect my light well if you were in the things the closest at the Hatchery near death experience but all three research about depression lost connections I kept thinking about this thing right you need you and it will tell us what's wrong with you and I realized all the time I have been depressed I think about my relatives and people I love you too have diction problems

I had seen that my depression therapy diction as a bit like that knows you're right it's like a kind of malfunction right sign that you should get rid of and I actually what we need to do is hear it right cuz it will tell us what's wrong with us doesn't mean it's a good feeling is just in some kind of you know if we hear the signal we can begin to find solution and all the places I went to places to solve depression crisis that I went to close connections places that sell diction crises in the screen all places that have said actually this mean something right heel pain makes sense you feel these wasteful reasons why we need to get down into these these deeper reasons which is really not what we had in the United States since the trouble began you know century ago so did they figure out in Switzerland what was causing this rash of addiction and just by treating it seems like if there is some underlying

that's causing the depression it's leading people to drug addiction it just giving them free heroin is not going to fix the root cause so how did how did they find out what the root cause wasn't why I was such an epidemic you're so the heroin is such a thing as you become addicted you spiraling the people that have huge private resources some people day right. You become addicted what happens to a lot of people and she spiral into chaotic Street use right sofa lot of women that means sex work for a lot of men that means property crime Oak some insects work as well and see what happens if you become an addiction cuz you're dealing with this pain but then you might be moving to a much more chaotic for a living right which would causes deep pain in De Pepe Tovar see if you're being fucked by strangers every day treating you badly want to be in the morning after that right or if you were frightened of the police all the time so what happens is that

call me what happen if its name was giving people the legal heroin ended the chaos of Street use which in itself was making addiction was nice clear all the calls cuz you don't start out as a street use up so I think it was partly

attending to people's Depot distressed I don't know why this one cookie cutter thing that was that was the answer I was listening to different people at different stages and and and looking at it had some problems with unemployment you don't owe the state that have some problems with child abuse you don't know how to say that it was more like a kind of menu of things I'm a sophisticated menu of things that the thing that they definitely showed in the Swiss model atom Portugal and loss of places I went to is compassionate treatment reduces addiction right eye treatment Essence because it reduces the pain the individual has anything what uses the same stigma and humiliation will overtime reduce addiction for most people not everyone some people are in such in total Agony they will always need an Esthetics wish I could use a really important point and one that can be quite challenging some people could people like me who have people they love with addiction problems so we're open chasing screams with the story that a lot of people

triple pack is back by the war on drugs. And are they significant tells you so much and in 1939 in a hotel in Midtown Manhattan Billie Holiday The Great jazz singer on stage when she sang For the First Time song I'm sure you listen is and Divas to Suncoast range Freight writes the song against lynching is the idea that in the South the bodies back in America men hang from the trees and I like a kind of strange fruit in the South right just unbelievably challenging about time they're very few popular songs like that and and Tavern African American women doing it was quite shocking why she wasn't even allowed to walk to the front door. He told him a dagger through the service elevator pictures African American and that night I get a warning from a man called Harry anslinger the Ancients maniacal Harry anslinger is it basically says stop singing this song right if you want to go do with the War on Drugs

Rancho person that was it I had always affected the lights of the lights are people listening to a shy he takes over the department of prohibition Justice alcohol prohibition is ending see if he had this big war on alcohol spin a shitshow has been a disaster and he takes over and he wants to keep his government department of driving and he invents the War on Drugs really builds this War on Drugs around too intense hatred she has a Billie Holiday's the personification of both one was a really intense hatred of African-Americans I mean he was regarded as a crazy racist in the 1920s which is a sense of how racist was he used the n-word so often in official memos his own sent it to said if you have to resign or Corey was right and you also had an intense hatred for people with addiction problems

I'm feeling holiday and she grown up on the streets of Baltimore part of Baltimore pigtown she when she was 10 she was horrific she was raped at the man who raped I was sent to prison for year-and-a-half she was sent Reformatory for longer than he got right she she was tormented by the nuns they they they said she was disobedient she brought it on herself they still look her in the dead bodies are tonight to teach her a lesson she ran away she tries to find her mother I mother had gone to roost Island and then what she was working as a prostitute and Billie Holiday is next to her mother in this process when she got fourteen so she's been raped by men for money night after night after night shift CNA and when they the police rescue rescue break into the arrest her grief and pain that comes from that right so she starts out using loads alcohol and then she's using was fun stuff as well mostly heroin

and when she gets this warning from Harry anslinger sang stop singing this song please write about Point Harry anslinger results to destroy her the first man he sent to to track who is a man called Uncle Jimmy flat white people start hating and pulling African Americans but you can't really send a white person in to Holland to play Billie Holiday for at the end of this African American man to hold everywhere she goes I find a document head Rockies right he dances with her night clubs he gets to know I really well and Billie Holiday was so amazing that Jimmy Fletcher fell in love with her and his whole life I felt really ashamed way did he busts they when they come into such as she she she makes him she pisses in front of him and says you can look him up here so you can see out of

I'm just put on trial at the trial was called the United States versus Billie Holiday and she said that's how it fucking felt she sent to prison for 18 months in prison until next I think is the cruelest thing she gets out of prison

Anna. Time to sing anywhere but I said alcohol you need it was called a cabaret performance license answering to make sure she doesn't get it so one of my friends Yolanda bovine is also great tennis thing I said to me what's the coolest thing you can do to a person is to take away the thing they love right they take away singing from Billie Holiday things on Mini. Example I'm obviously but again I one day in the 50s

not far from where she felt some strange fruit the first hospital where they can take her to but she got an addiction problem is having a second Hospital takes up but she says to her friend may lead off the on the way in

dancing is men with done with her they were going to come to her she said they going to kill me in there. Let them they're going to kill me she wasn't wrong in the hospital she starts noise with Advanced liver cancer

will be related to severe alcoholism and in the hospital she she goes into heroin withdrawal so mayleben friend manages to insist that she's given methadone and she starts to recover because I remember was quite dangerous when you're weak right on your answering his men come arrest her own house but so bad they handcuffed supposed to be the last person you still alive you been in that room and a man called reverend Eugene calendar I've been a religious minister they handcuffed at a hospital bed that a lot of friends in to see her outside Revan calendar LED protests with sign saying that lady they live they were big protest I knew they were killing her right then after 10 days the cost of methadone and she died the next day my friend at one of her friends told the BBC that she look like she had been violently wrench from life right

there's so many things about the story to tell us what this War on Drugs is about right it's about facts about shaming out it's expected that makes out express Reitz ever been held a sniper with second day is been insanely racist from the stop right at the same time the Harry anslinger. Billie Holiday had a heroin addiction he found out Judy Garland Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz had a heroin addiction to make changes what's the results we met. He went to the studio and he said she could take longer vacations the difference with a white women Judy Garland longer vacation with Billie Holiday fucking destroyed her right. One of the agency sent to destroy her and Michael George white guy trapped in the last days of our life we now know which way is like a path he was she should I be scisaac a strange guy he infiltrated a Chinese drug guy when he wasn't Chinese in person that would do that but he he boasted in his diarrhea

murdering people about spiking women and raping them I mean he's already deranged people that were founded the the drug will about in this culture we tell only one who epic story about people with addiction problems and that's okay sometimes recover from their addiction that is indeed a heroic story everyone wants you to manage to do that is a hero in a massively long scratch like them but that is not the only heroic story we should tell about people with addiction problems but I never stopped using drugs it was still a fucking hero never let these people stop by singing that song she would go to the places where you didn't have a license to go to the worst parts of the deep sound she sang Strange Fruit should they they stopped out cigarette so now she never stop singing that song right and I think about Billie Holiday I think about

get out

everyday people listen to Billie Holiday and I feel stronger and all over the world every day we are still following the policies of Harry anslinger and it makes us weaker

did this conflict begins right at the start of the drug I think it's one of the reasons why the debate about the drug war

it's cuz it runs through the hearts above his right anyone he's with someone I love his conviction problem is like today

does a hurry on sling when your head right is a baby that looks of the man thanks so much you just fucking stop pa why you doing this someone should stop you doing this and then the most people that's another part that's like okay but anger isn't useful in most cases

Eugene's for reason we need to understand those reasons we need to help you to change your life right but that conflict is is is very deep and has cannabis Lisbon things but

I see a bunch of vinyl cannabis

stop. Boris is stupid and I had no idea that Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz was also addicted to how did you do munchkins why was Harry anslinger hate towards her so extreme

so when he was a kid the book is called chasing the scream cuz when he was a kid he grew up in a place called Altoona in Pennsylvania and he lives in a fallen house is that was actually Refugee from Switzerland and they grew up in the farmhouse in the next on house down there was a

I am his wife you had an addiction and scream and scream at him being sensed I post a copy of the letter know something being sent to take the whole SIM card into town to go to the pharmacy to get her the morphine and then bring it back and ice cream stop hitting lesson he took that is destructive evil that we need to destroy them

especially later on he was in Europe during the first world war the civilization collapse any moment that you only need a little bit contamination and it would all go to shit and so he chasing the scream all over the world that I felt like I was doing great all these different places from The Killing Fields Mexico to Port from Switzerland was like following this screen is it kind of ricocheted around and actually how he made he thinks he's stopping the screams of creating far more screams in that in that in that place

yeah but I still don't understand why he had this intense African American woman standing up to white supremacy who has an addiction problem but the truth is what he did to Billie Holiday is not just waited to African-Americans and people with addiction problems so I'm telling her story but this is what he did to that one amazing thing spending time in his archives in Penn State was a single these memos from his agents resets them go to a local jazz club. Kim in the evil things and the things they write back at Ocean Man lyrics when he gets the notion he thinks he can walk across the ocean and he's like there's going to be an epidemic of drowning across the United States of people use cannabis because they cannot believe they can walk on water

hilarious. Is he said he believed that when you smoke cannabis time slows down so I'm minute since the lost a thousand years but he's extraordinary and crazy things that he would he would say I'm actually launched so time takes over the Federal Bureau of Narcotics I mean exist but I can find a small Urban sings kind of this was more popular is now but he previously said cannabis is harmful about it suddenly when he comes on this is the way to big build up his Department announces that cannabis is the first use of the most illegal drug in the world he said when Frankenstein's monster bumps in a spliff on the staircase Frankenstein's monster dies of fright like these extraordinary Lehighton claims and just trying to get support for battle cannabis

listen to one place in particular I should wear hearing aids to get these things again now suck it in Tampa Florida call Victor Lockhart

kill this entire family with an axe which of the Moon

I'm with the help of the Fox News this time has passed newspapers this is what will happen if you use cannabis you will kill your family with an axe and a very famous story across the United States and cannabis is Bandit way he is later someone goes and checks the psychiatric Falls to bits like I wasn't even able to assist his family have been advised more than a year before that he should be institutionalized and they refused the catch Anaheim in this tragedy in suit with hearing these discussed about about something that I said but I think about the multi for the entire drywall

in the wake of the site and sling orange juice is bad in the US he promises drugs will disappear right you would have noticed drugs do not despair evil foreign countries like a floating a country with drugs in that stops come back as well so we need to do is full so these other countries to ban them as well and then they'll disappear so the US in the way and this one part when he goes to the new United Nations and he's insisting this happens and they basically threatening people that sang will cut off your phone died or you might be allowed to sell Goods to the US market if you don't do this the damn bastard from Thailand is like everyone in your country we've actually got along patented established in Thailand with that really have many problems we don't want to do this thing I said to her I said to him I made up my mind don't try to confuse me with the facts and I always feel like

what's the drug will write I made up my mind. Try to confuse me with the facts while he's in conjunction with the William Randolph Hearst and he worked with him to try to propagate these ridiculous propaganda stories about Mexicans and blacks smoking this evil drug called marijuana which is really not even a real term for cannabis at the time it was a wild it was a wild Mexican tobacco right but then didn't Nixon do a similar thing with the sweeping psychedelic docked of 1970 he did it so that they can infiltrate the civil rights movement because there were so many people in the Civil Rights Movement that were using various psychedelic drugs they could use it as an excuse to crack down on them and lock them up and put them in jail and pit them against each other and have them each other as everyone is breaking them is impossible half of all Americans

the drug losartan used to prosecute groups the state wants to prosecute out of reasons right yeah so what is it you had an epiphany about this right Sally maddocks was a cop in Baltimore she's to do the I-95 very proudly bust people leave out a single joint right she was a real hurry answering his dream girl she had signed up to become a call sheet signed up for no reason he was they looks pretty similar to Shadow fake ID they were like sisters and one day when they were late teens they went to Ocean City for down and Lisa decided to hitchhike back to New Jersey when she lived and Lisa by to her and the next day she gets a cool thing Lisa had not arrived

she wait so why it's just as terrible summer waiting to find out what happened and then they discovered the least I've been getting raped a minuted I thought he was found underneath the house right then eaten by animals and leave because I'm convinced that time that Lisa Whispers reasons at least I've been killed as part of a gang initiation ceremony she looks like I'm going to destroy these guys might destroy these things she doesn't apply to become a police officer after you know Hardline cop right takes real and busting people lie start to notice a few things

fasting was when you were called when you arrest a rapist there are fewer rights in your town the next week right when you are company bust a pedophile if your children sexually abused when you bust a dealer

that's enough your dealer's the someone on the corner of the next day for sure right it didn't seem to be having any effect your fat when she discovered she began to learn about this was that there was something even worse which was a reason that she realized that she was actually creating these empowering these games

when you find drugs they don't disappear right that the people used to control them license legal business is Tom criminal gangs operate in a different way to sleep if you want me to decide if we want to go and steal now a bottle of vodka right we going to like a liquor store and that store Catches Us. Call the cops the cop so come and take us away that liquor store doesn't need to be violent it doesn't need to be intimidating powerful Lord upheld the property rights if we go to the South Park he catches has he called the cops obviously he has to be frightening the normal that's fuk with you right so you can you establish a place in that neighborhood to aggression through violence and you maintain it through aggression and violence right legal businesses compete on cost and quality

in a legal Market people could pay on how much of a frightening fuck are you prepared to be right out and put it and the War on Drugs creates a wolf or drugs right at transfers it to these criminal gangs you have to operate through violence protective properties thinking I'm the one stopping these things she realizes I'm the one enabling them right they control one of the biggest industries in the world because of this police actually because of this decision to prohibit these drugs but if you want to know how much of this violence is caused by by by the fact that would prohibit today just ask yourself where are the ball in alcohol deal is right

everyone knows who Al Capone was just ahead of Smirnoff going shoot had a Budweiser in the face right just your local ball going somewhat bunch of kids to go and shoot everyone in the next spot down to that happened to the alcohol prohibition when do the end and it on the day alcohol prohibition ended his legal markets. Computer. I'm actually perilymph and making it legal under cover with the clan to expose them should have really put working breaking up parts of the Maryland clam she really was not a racist

she knows something that most on is called tinnitus which is

the vast majority of people they were sent to African-American areas to enforce the drug laws right what if I call it's Matthew Fogg once went to his Superior officer and Sunday night

weird right we only have six rights African-American neighborhoods to do a lab drug bust on Fanny sure want people sometimes you struck should we go to like a white neighborhood as well and the supervisor said of course you're right. A white people know journalists and lawyers and judges that's really a whole lot of shit for us just go for the low-hanging fruit the effect of what she was doing was in fat racist and she was very least it was a great champion of women police officers he's a great guy and one day she gets a Cool Edit been sent on a drug bust undercover and the guide for teams were in the head illegal to see Ed's body and she's like what did he die for every time we arrested drug dealer for 1 hour

we are enforcing a racist wolf we are empowering these things are we doing this solely quit as a police officer get the criminal records expunged can are the kind of people that she busted when she was a cop and she's a big she was Papa who are cops you all keep sending the drug lord it's hard to be Harriet Lee was trying to be Harry anslinger it's hard to be Harry anslinger if you're an honest person with a conscience right and replace of these realizations now I'm not

obviously it's breakfast my heart what we do to people with addiction problems

I don't have a receipt in catastrophic data is I don't actually think that's the biggest moral issue in the War on Drugs the biggest moral issue is the violence created by probation right and I think about places I spent time at Columbia and Cedar Corazon in New Mexico in Latin America

Central South America in the drug war violence that have died in Syria but I don't know what we can do about Syria we can end this violence has a a graph at the murder rate in the 20th century in the United States today alcohol is banned alcohol is legalized right and the truck will later we can end a huge amount of this violence so we can do what Switzerland did we can do what was happening at stopping us

so I think the main thing is to this is a logical conclusion based on facts and based on cases like Portugal and Switzerland when there's obviously data so people are aware of this so people must be confronted with this data to this day people know the prohibition on alcohol was a massive disaster and no one would ever accept it again we're slowly starting to realize that marijuana at least for some people is is safe and reasonable and should be used recreationally and has some massive benefits medically so we're starting to see legalization both for recreational use and clearly for medical uses spread I think we did what did we decide what it was it I think it's like

there's a certain amount of states where it's just fully legal recreationally and more where its medical but I think it's more than eighteen States total know soon we're going to be off at the American population to be a hundred percent rice mean we all is in Canada and it should be yes it is in Canada as it should be for alcohol but what what is the stop what is the wall between this and legalization of all these other drugs and counseling and implementing some sort of a Switzerland like program in question has a range of things in a big one I think was the most important right some people say is the best definition person existing system that's true if you look at who funds the no campaign's whatever they want to legalize marijuana you can see the entrance right prison guard unions alcohol companies commercial competitor religious fundamentalist groups at moments moments Fundamentalist

just partly that but I think you're right I don't think that's the main thing that's going on it's a significant unreal by the main thing the main block is huge majority of Americans moving 80% said the War on Drugs has failed and been a disaster and yet most people are afraid of the alternative is right on this ignorance about this is actually mean one of the reasons why Jason scream is written as I went to all these places from The Killing Fields New Mexico to Switzerland

it's because way too often in this debate we talk what is a plane ticket to Geneva is a plane ticket to Lisbon is a plane ticket to Colorado right to know rocket science to the places I've tried these things we can see the results right then the legalization apotheke romantic relationship 2051 abstracted what are the key differences between legalization decriminalization criminalization is why you stop punishing uses but they still have to go to armed criminal gangs to get that drug legalization is why you open up some legal group Orange is the New Black and legalization shutdown Breaking Bad in narcos right out of course we need to be by the throat mean to decriminalize yeast and legalize Supply Mexico decriminalized

I spent time in Mexico

did I think about

I think about this time I spent in Mexico really often

it because it was a lot, a lot of places like, the war in the Congo I've been to a rock up into Gaza nursing anything like what happened to her as when when I was there

you know I think it's worth explaining so when you

like I was saying when you buying drugs that I disappear right that transmits on criminal gangs if you live in a housing project in the United States where 5% of the economy of the housing project is in the hands of on criminal convictions he frightening place to be right about the time I went that it was 70% 7 0% of the economy was in the hands of his own criminal gangs right so I'm about to

got to see the sky Rosario Raptor 90 people died in prison in the United States in Tyler County

Section guys eat but should have added about 70 people between ages of 13 and 17 to the God said to me on the way in what ways did your alignment him cuz he's like but she will these people I was like, great thanks but I'm super sorry I grew up in Laredo Texas is basically the same place in the late nineties Northeast still off in same story every taxpayer should know the US government decided to train an elite anti-drug fools for the the Mexican Government write like kind of Navy SEALs for the counter drug fools

I got to Mexico six months like today to Don mask almost over then I created a drug cartel besides is Grady Co tax money and commerce drug gang operating on that pot drug rates move around according to where they put up somewhere else but that time it was going through as far as an in El Paso to Laredo Nuevo Laredo

Rosario has two stories about how Roselia gets involved with the Zetas what are cellular says if he could not buy them and forced to start killing people. That's true if you piece of bowling Ted base 13 so responsible either way this one night it will begins he's taken on the Mexican side of the border to a warehouse where they are torturing people burning them alive he's giving a gun by kygo Miguel Trevino lights became head of the Zetas and he's told to shoot someone in the head and that's the money you're in when you're in with those items you never got no one leaves no one needs a life and so they begin to train him he sent to us in 2005 you sent to a summer camp that's literally account of the teachers you have to behead people do such things and he's dancing hit him and his friends have been sent to murder people is with friends Jesse Gabriel die

disable cooled within the site is cool these child sell just The Expendables cuz they write that I said to me they prefer children because they don't understand that so well you understand eventually trust get back to USA cooperates he now lives in solitary confinement when he will leave for the rest of his life because of the amount of solute trade show in front of him immediately stabbed in the neck

I can you think about this insane by tonight in El Paso and I walk across the bridge right through 306 your passport

who are the customers who are you going to Juarez but I just wait on the other side of the bridge that's the sign and it says welcome to Historic downtown far as I used to be a Taurus I believe they got married that but now it's just that time it was just covered with images of missing women

just everywhere because this is another really important part of what this Vine it's really important we understand this is the violence caused by the system that we uphold and we imposed on Mexico let's do not want this right just another story about chasing the scream along with one other one I can tell you one this was the hardest

so women in Juarez when the drug will file it starts to go through a cold Marisela Escobedo she was a nurse duties on wood carvings basically it would sell them in the molecule Saturdays and Sundays she had three kids our youngest daughter was the time on this Stone in the marketplace every Saturday I think my being Sundays as well get some Sundays and one day a guy comes up to Maricela my stool has Sergio and he's like a baby needs a job. I was kind of soft hearted she gives him a job working on her Market still having sex with a 14 year old daughter Arabian Sheik like immediately goes to the place that says you need to come and question and right he's 21 she's 14 please don't do anything she doesn't understand it

Next to Godliness I told her starts running away to be with with Sergio going to rest and they would do anything rash completely puzzled by this then Ruby gets pregnant Marcellus like she's Fifteen by then going to keep her in my life so she she keeps going to see Ruby by the first card accepted the police on with real rage the police are going to do anything then one day just after the baby was born she goes to Serie B and such as that with the baby and he says I'm his runaway with another man she's gone she's not coming back

Marcella's like left a baby no she hasn't the neighborhood swimming pools Mechanicals on how he says I'm really frightened to tell you something if you drive me out to the desert I'll tell you she drives on hell out into the desert he was 14 and he says such a message to remind me how to dispose of the body and he told Maricela where the body was it was such a place where they dumped Pig carcasses from the app to us with that with us

I scratched the place on the police finally do something in their message yet so just put on trial in the witness box breaks down admits he did it and apologizes to Maricela

and then a few weeks later he's acquitted of all charges and disappears I'm Irish I was like what the fuck is going on here so she starts to look into this trouble Turning Point Way that the surgery was a member of the Zetas right now if you remember this a to is about time in Juarez it's different than other things to spice them you own the state right you have if I control 70% of the economy you have more money than the government right to the police work tomorrow it's going to be worse audio he said the people the police would would come with me to the Buddy year we talk about when she read danger from the front in the people around you all right cuz you don't know the place I mean

it was realizing how frightened other people were for Me and Julio on right

Priyanka Chopra GC mean by that time the killings were basically holding down by the place and everything you know who this is

it's important I made people think about this possible so many people think about the cartels more recently and now the police to do it right over someone comes to you there's nowhere for you to go right Maricela refuses to accept that she lives in a country where there is no justice she decides I'm going to solve this ship a large women are missing because it turns out if a bunch of criminals control the state they want somebody with a missing his mother's she says someone don't know where they sell some of them know that. I need your help we going to find this guy he's done this to Maricela turns herself with these women into a detective she starts all of the Mexico whatever they're exciting she walks everywhere she works over

Thousand Miles right through the desert becomes a media that she's like this is symbol of the lost this happened in Mexico and Incredibly with a friend but Alexia Garcia of two years she find Sergio she tracked him down she goes to the police she tells them what he is they took him off and it disappears she's devastated so she decides she's going to catch the governor's mansion in Chihuahua it's the state capital of people go and find this man and she cools on every mother has a daughter

he's missing or they're afraid of four to come and join her in this fight right and it gets to Christmas Eve and she's preparing to adjustable Christmas isn't Christmas Eve I'm going to have this big Christmas dinner hate people can join me she gets this great speech at a man walks up to her and she has her in the head in front of all the place everyone

Marcella I got to know her children who live here in the United States now

a refugee

what I think about the drug war and what it does

the first person I think about the Billie Holiday is Marisol Escobar died right we have created an enormous amount of violence that has nothing to do with the drug right what a picture when they hear that it's someone using drugs losing that shit and attacking someone right as a really good study for Goldstein in 1986 was 3%. Drug-related bond to someone using drugs problem like committing property crimes getting caught whatever

and the lost majority

most rival drug gangs exactly the kind of violence which the wolf for drugs created by probation now we can reduce the problems associated with drug use and we can end the violence caused by the wolf

no alcohol seller anywhere in the United States today will kill a single of alcohol cellebrite that violence ended if we find rice that would be buying rice sellers right to understand what we are doing to send this is bullshit fucking thing that said they'll take these deaths on the supply rate right at probation is enough a look at you evil drug uses you're responsible for the deaths of these people right so precious right you can have every single drug piece of druggies to happen in the United States today none of those killings on the supply is the system those people have erected and imposed and lied that way to maintain causes this violence right and we can end this violence and I think about the right that you know I got lost once in an interview should you feel most sorry for all the people you met

because

have we done to these people right but it's not we for sure as a society we we've done that and those of us who opposed it I've been done a good enough job it was Freddie Brown question why does it persist right

the key reason

I can see things taught me people are afraid of new alternatives for understandable reasons there are real risks in pursuing the Alternatives we can understand because it seems like those risks of a mitigated in Portugal and Switzerland Ami we have real evidence that those risks and that they're on founded Apple why don't we Implement some sort of a small scale version of this mean how come no one is ever try to do this evening do it in Vermont do it a New Hampshire doing a small state with their loads of people want to do that but the federal drug laws of federal law supersedes could go off yet Colorado Washington now this is a political decision to not do that because cannabis legalization is popular in those places right yes that would people Jeff sessions

actually pissed off Trump up something else you know Cannabis stores are operating in this weird gray area that my point is why is no one pushing this why why is people are passionate synonym Erica machinist the amazing everyone to join a support the drug policy Alliance on the politicians ever discussing this is never an option because those the only ones that are going to really change policy being a big change in public opinion that is change on many issues so I think about when Bill Clinton stop being president which is 16% of Americans supported legalizing cannabis to 70% of Americans support legalizing cannabis extraordinary transformation a very short. Of time ride likely brought on by the fact that the medical use of it was prohibited up until then

when was like 1994 right when it was passed and then California started doing it and started having positive tax revenues from and he started seeing people that were suffering from a lot of ailments did showing that they were helped substantially buy cannabis in than the attitude of it changed and popular culture exchange during the what's so crazy is that that Reefer Madness Reaper Reefer Madness proposition are the propaganda brother was so effective that they did in the 1930s and it carried on into the 90s in to mm there still people alive today to believe some of that can you put out really well as a series of things going on what happened

one of the major

what are the major factors that make it possible to the drug board continuing is the dehumanization of people every time right place to addiction dehumanization of people with addiction problems dehumanization of drug dealers as a reason why I want an amazing human being dehumanization of people in the Supply Route countries are heading to white people to about Mexicans now it powerful people in the society has written as stories of people

it's because the solution to dehumanization story humanization when I was making these people all over the world I kept thinking

if any ordinary American could make Chena Hot in my friend the transfer the car at dealer who is hilarious an amazing if I could meet but I was born on the street at 8 to start a movement in Canada if I could meet Maricela they would not say that the deaths of these people mean nothing right it would not say yeah let's pursue a policy that kills them because we get some imaginary benefit further down the line in Baltimore it was when Ed died when I pop a wheelies in these people. Moment or getting people to see everyone involved as human right we not there yet still do white people talk about addiction or

rappelling write this is a thing of people is being weak I think of peoples having poor willpower poor character and that's why they're addicted their most people I would I would say it safe to venture aren't really fully aware of what the causes were the underlying causes of people becoming addicted to drugs in the first place are and what what leads people this great sense of Despair me it's really about re-engineering our entire culture I mean re-engineering not just the way we treat addiction but the way we treat human beings where we treat poor neighborhoods I mean there's there's so much that needs to be done let's never dressed

attorney write this is funny I have found is actually easier in the US to make the case for compassion fatigue with addiction problems than to make the case for liberty for drug users who I'm not addicted right so that we were saying even the main drug nobody in the world the unodc universal drug control admits 90% of all currently banned drug uses what's going on problematic right in front of a circle is the head of psychology at Columbia University in an extraordinary human being has done really important people even with what we think of as the devil drugs like heroin crack the vast majority people use heroin and crack do not become addicted I was like what's this guy talking about up to the scientific evidence there was very clear evidence of people to use any drug they become addicted

turn to 20% right slightly high at the things like heroin but it's pretty consistently in that zone right which is not to say that right

isn't this so much

give me to explain to people are in LA bus tours Health Organization really serious scientist had a sideline for 30 years we investigated animals using drugs right to species of getting intoxicated for the pleasure of it right Shore elephant elephants if you give cash to mice like to do is Bell they get really horny that's right to mail nice will try to mount women but then I was looking around. He spent three years investigating

grasshoppers in cannabis Fields who just naturally living kind of his fields to figure out when they ain't the kind of fish do they jump higher or lower at the end of your three years what did you discover any said that the same height as everyone else up at 3 is my time it is in Hawaii he was investigating we're the Monkees is like hallucinogens psychedelics and Suites like spying on these monkey suits with with the binoculars don't worry I'm just investigating with the monkey says lights like a story we've ever had

it is absolutely night table species especially to humans the desire to get intoxicated Army Society where they would naturally occurring intoxicants with the Inuit Eskimos in the Arctic and they used to just starve themselves to get a fucked-up had steak and human beings if there's nothing in it. How far how long you got to go for such fasting fasting causes intoxication children OK every one more about his memory when you're a little kid when you realize you can spin around around around even though you know it'll make you sick you do it cuz you got told to touch base that is one of the first Expressions that the cut it into

kaishin impulse pretty nice examples for 2,000 years 40 miles outside of Athens ancient Greece that used to be once again with me something a place called The Temple of the loosest and it was basically buddy man they would all use a fungus basically, the name of that but there has been an hour since you're holding up as the icons by Plato and Aristotle was literally getting fucked up in exactly the way you say is an attack on that right now we are never going to get

joy and pleasure and yet

what's the wild said once quite slightly runny said it better than this they said puritanism is the Deep annoying fear that someone somewhere is enjoying themselves and there's this hatred of geese right now some of that is understandable face genuine homes different thing but a lot of it is just very deep puritanism you resent in one phrase we need to get get out of the English language is the ridiculous price drugs and alcohol fruit and apples alcohol is a drug easily the deadliest drug in our culture after tobacco it's a meaningless Fry's Alcohol and Other Drugs is is a way of maintaining the struggle right because the reality is the same proportion of people become addicted to alcohol

cocaine write a proportion risks from alcohol a very similar to other drugs right actually some of the dangerous and some drugs the ark Hartley band

with alcohol in it cuz that's what you're saying about why we don't change these policies with alcohol enough people everyone knows it's cuz more people came out and talked about it until you have a situation where you've got Harry anslinger saying if you use kind of issue with an axe by the time we get to the nineties enough people know enough people to use cannabis to Rockwell Jimmy over there right at the death with Max right this is this is bullshit things we have to do is encourage people to do things is the prohibition

creates a distorted picture of our rule drug case right because like to go listen as might say on Facebook you know I went out on Saturday night and I had you know about the shots and I had a great time you could pretty foolish if you put on Facebook or Saturday night went out have 5 lines of Coke ad I'd a great night right you be her fall in love people I fall there's no demon eyes use of drugs or alcohol is there any culture that doesn't frown upon some drugs or have some forbidden categories for drugs

what they've been nice societies throughout history right now I'm in Mexico right Mexico had so the 1930s and Selena says to the Mexicans you'll make some real power lies what's happening now you guys are responsible for this War on Drugs right and the Mexican Government alike we can see the policies don't wait for you we're not going to do it that kind of drugs are administered I apologize I was talking statues do you know Matt is everything more pricey and explains the Americans we don't have been kind of this is not take me home. The drugs we should be writing paper with compression it cat and if we banned drugs the country country to be taken over by drug lords right no one has ever been more than anything the Americans the u.s. stop pressuring Mexico in the end

they cut off opiates for pain relief to use the hospital for manufactured in the Americas in the United States that time they cut off the supply order them people start dying and hospitals with Mexico in agony and the Mexicans get in the fire this guy and they begin the drug war in the whole journey that leads to rustle something important right I shouldn't be surprised me learn about history of all this stuff at the both of the drug war it was intensely resisted write in Los Angeles. Henry Smith Williams when heroin is banned there was a deliberate loophole in the law they said I can you call Sal heroin but doctors can prescribe just like what happened in Switzerland right Saharan I like big heroin Clinic prescribed and sling it drives him crazy wants to shut it down so the mayor of Los Angeles stands in front of his hair in prescription Clinic

you will not shut this down this does a good job for us to sit down when the doctor say to the is the biggest Crackdown on doctors in American history of a 12000 doctors are arrested around it up when they come to the one in Portland Oregon to talk to cyber what are we meant to do with all these vulnerable to take two people and one of the agents icon for them in the light they'll make good fish food that was the attitude check this is resisted intensely the birth of the Dragon Society really recently that much more mature attitude it's not the people for all drug use is good we should celebrate every instance of drug use and I want things that right there were problems and they were there was some Joy associated with drug use that's actually the norm there is some pain I'm terrible things associated with drug users are mostly driven by underlying home but there are real homes become some drugs as well and most societies until very recently had a mature appreciation

that's right really we all the outlier most societies have had licensed intoxicants in different societies a different baccarat the terrible things done when he was done with tobacco different societies have a different products at different times but

we are the historical outliers right I mean the United States in prison 2 million people that has never being a society that imprisons this many of its citizens High proportion of its citizens anyway I mean in person so many people and the conditions in his prisons are so terrible that the United States is only the first Society ever when will men have been raped the women that's how extreme this this war is right and what we do to people in the conditions this war creates its own

ice a total historical outline we are in a freak experiment right and the one thing you can say in defense of the drug war the United States has done it for a hundred years this country spend a trillion dollars on it with imprisoned millions of our own citizens we can we kill hundreds of thousands of people are conservative estimate would destroy call countries like Colombia is in the problem now that there's a gigantic business behind it all from private prisons to prison guard unions to the pharmaceutical industry that would benefit from keeping most of these drugs illegal so their profits continue to rise to law enforcement I mean down the line it's you would be disrupting like an evil industry but an industry that's a real facts about don't want to overstate it supposed what's the main factor the main factor is

most people are asked do you think the drug war has failed say yes and most people lost you want to legalize any drugs other than cannabis say no very strong so education I think it's about

resorted to catch up and give an example of a short person who I think should wait to do this so early 2000 in Vancouver that was a hardness tree out of Coke bottles born and lived in a troy Spot Vancouver downtown Eastside. Time that had the really high like nightmarish I can drug saying Rogers again and it looked interesting people injecting the streets like anything

I'm fine with letting her know said he was watching his friends die or around him

about time

there's a really big police Crackdown and so people would go in like hide and dumpsters or an Audi ways to sheetrock but we stayed behind and you overdose no one sees you just on the right and iPod Hitler in salty Springs GA to dad died and he's like account just sit here and wait for my friends started to die but I'm having a stronk see what the fuck am I going to do some people in the streets we should do is just drop a timetable I'm going to look in the places where we know people where we shop right if we see someone has no officials nothing like that just lots of people have to send it all the downtown Eastside to more problems to solve everything and they were very skeptical but they liked bud

are the next three months downtown the death toll in the downtown Eastside like a significant full of shit everyone says we all right maybe we can do something else can we do but went to the library he learned in Frankfurt in Germany they don't open safe injection rooms but like what happened in California until they shut down sink shut it down when you said ok will persuade I'm at the shop a group called Band-Aid thank U Verry Network a drug uses the man was a conservative right-wing garchow. Trump admit Romney a rich guy from privilege family think he did run for office saying all the local drug addict should be taken and detain to the local military

I can never let out if you sense where he's coming from right people optimistic about persuading him

Dante bought his friends they decide everywhere I feel it coming guys that going to follow him with a coffin and the coffin had written on it he will die next before you open a safe injection site every time for spiking public one of the most people with addiction problems with stand up and say he will die next before you open a safe injection site one day Dean Wilson one of the main people involved they stood up and said do you remember who asked you recently he would die next it turned out to be her cuz you haven't done it right on time they do lights of public auctions be stilled oppenheim at Partridge Creek Park in Vancouver with a cross more than a thousand crosses each one representing someone who died of an overdose and they write the names of the people on the crosses

I'm 1 day after going to get his time it takes credit for all these people who is this and he went to meet Low lyrics for the picnic party too hard indulged himself he decides to meet Milton Friedman the Nobel prize-winning Economist who grown up on the alcohol prohibition explains reproduction to Philip Abbott interesting like

I'm not going to speak again but I have the attic stay with me about addiction cuz I understand it better than me

we're going to open the first second section site in North America we're going to have the most compassionate drug policies in North America things are going to change around here right in sight but it probably is right wing party is so horrified they deselect a message is that kind of night and he's hopeless cook rear ends but I'm more liberal guy wins the election in the room stays open in the ten years that followed the downtown Eastside fell by 80%. 0% average life expectancy in that neighborhood Rose by 10 years you just don't get figures like that very often change car while doing chasing the scream at him right but I realized I would have written

right window light runs for saying we should lock them up in the military base right you know anyone you don't know who could be persuaded by message of love and compassion and the most unlikely one of the biggest champions of a book is a conservative Evangelical Christian in Mississippi Christina. And he's doing incredible what with the shrine of sacrifices entire political career all over again given the chance for the schools he said how often do you get to save thousands of lives at the most vulnerable people and after I go tonight but I was born the guy who started this madman

he died he remember but he added during a drug war and the downtown Eastside with Butter Lip is a homeless person and they have this incredible Memorial Hermann in The Woodlands of people at Knotts are many who knew that they were alive because of what got it started and cuz so many other people to join them in so many people have addiction problems with open their hearts right and I remember thinking that day

when you get this out and about this is easy to get this one right this is 100 year loan program we're up against very powerful forces

everyone watching your show listening to your show is more powerful than Bud was that day by the day he started that write it just like that have a device on which to listen to that's right but didn't say Stephen King someone else is going to handle this he didn't sit there thinking all these forces that called be defeated he started when he stood the appeal to the people around him and it start at the circle of change of the Canadian Supreme Court ruled the right wing government of Stephen Harper try to shut down this injection site and the Canadian Supreme Court ruled that like to live I'm not crazy sci-fi series of when you have nothing else you have a voice you have a human voice that you can use to persuade other people with love and compassion you can tell them stories you can build people's love and compassion in the middle of this catastrophe that was singing this country with the addiction Christ

it's right I mean more people died last year and the IPO crisis than all the soldiers who died in the Vietnam War combined

middle of this catastrophe what we've been doing okay then we will continue to get the results we are now getting we can continue to copy the places that have failed at the end of a hundred-year-old Rockwall discussed trillion dollars we can't even keep drugs out of all prisons where we have a wool perimeter and we pay people to walk around at the whole time so good luck keeping them out of the 3000-mile Border will be spent on trying to keep drugs out that way then in a pile is said there's never been such a society or we can start copy the places I've succeeded right chea places to have tried the Alternatives and people have a quiet place is really skeptical

initially thought I was crazy very often change their minds this is the consistent pain

before it happens people think it's the work of bunch of fucking Wakko's they didn't walk every one of these drugs and get children to use drugs in the madness and then they see the past

that's not what happens in practice when you when you adopt these policies and it's not Magic Bullet in this to her problem is but it's been such a significant Improvement in all those places. The resistance tends to see how many people are doing for investing in the Cannabis legalization he died of here right now right it's been a little bit about Clash of Clan Has Come Out repeating the kind of bit till I contest I'm actually had that guy on why haven't we had a debate between him and Alex Bernstein and dr. Mike Hart from Canada and there's some there's some reality to the dangers of cannabis use to some people that are susceptible to schizophrenia and I think that there's also some at least anecdotal evidence that points to the fact that some people experience these psychotic breaks and he's schizophrenic episodes probably directly as a result of large dose use of THC when there's two Edibles or whether it's through smoking as some people freak out I've known people

I've known of people that have had real issues with it and we had a comedian here a couple weeks ago we talked about he doesn't smoke pot these from Brazil smoke pot of use a vape pen took a bunch of hits and was fucked up for 2 weeks there are there are dangerous and problems in the same way that case to legalizing alcohol is not does know how did a good job for two reasons one because he's basically only making the case for it to be negative and I think this far more evidence that cannabis is it a positive influence on people it reinforces Community it makes people more sensitive and kind just the thought of paranoia might actually bit it makes people more humble it makes sex feel better and fix food taste better there's this creativity aspects to it that are undeniable there's a lot of very positive aspects to it for some people it's

do it but it's like saying hey some people die when they eat peanuts what's Outlaw peanuts warn your children about peanuts is another lie of that's going on at the same time as a kind of below that which is really important to understand this thing people will say Karina saying it during the Republican debates in 2016 2015 movie called legalized cannabis because it's much stronger now than it used to be THC content by that happened is because of drug prohibition the day before alcohol is banned in the u.s. most popular drinks by Fall with beer and wine

in the weeks after alcohol prohibition ended most popular drinks again today in between you could not get ahold of beer and wine most popular drinks with whiskey and moonshine

why would that be in if you mention if we had to smuggle the nearest bar to her if we had to smuggle alcohol that bar in a wagon from the Canadian and Mexican border from Tijuana we're going to get drinks with vodka drinks thousands of people right when you find a truck that has to be smuggled around you got a premium on getting the biggest possible kick into the smallest possible space right this is one mile from to drop disappear before I buy PS4 banned in the United States most popular way of consuming it was something cool mrs. Winslow's soothing syrup what you were buying the pharmacy right very low level of ips device products products the Banning was Coca-Cola school. For a recent when the ban happens

powder cocaine in the 80s in space right so it's not good most people who drink alcohol don't want to drink vodka and they sent me that one drink absinthe most of the time right most people want a mild form of that drug that's true kind of pissed that start with some people want to party. Most people want to mail form of drug is not good that my phone to the drug when they know it's not true in California in California would have was medical cannabis got past and what's medical cannabis got past there was an emphasis on the strongest possible stuff because people wanted it I mean it was a direct result of people having higher tolerance is cuz marijuana was so readily available and they if you have a high tolerance and you smoke a lot of pot you want strong pot because week pot doesn't do anything it's the number one complaint

amongst cannabis Enthusiast is someone having weak Posh people who are kind of Synthesia but I don't think it's a matter it's not the same thing like Janet obviously is more potent than whiskey or than beer rather it's easier to carry Jen around you have to carry less of it with cannabis people are still buying the same quantity are just getting more fucked up because they're tolerances are so much higher they need to stronger and stronger THC so as you have a legal Market you can have a variety of options yes that is what will what will discover I think as time goes by alcohol is different people want cannabis to do different things or try to maximum THC market for for lower grade weed when they have it listed at all these dispensaries they have it listed you know 20% 35% they have it listed so you can choose a more mild marijuana

do you like to but the OG people the people to do it everyday called they want that really potent weed it's not like in Vegas stays in Vegas for the weekend I just want to play roulette with a very dedicated and I'm friends with a bunch of people who breed and grow these various strains cannabinoid Builders hundreds of cannabinoids significant cannabinoids I think we just discuss this right

is Chico about schizophrenia and psychosis next appointment on Sunday that is some evidence that very high exposure to THC in a small number of people can can leave you out of this right I'm not even a small number of people you have a very widely used drug is is that's really problematic right actually evidence so why do people who are prone to psychosis schizophrenia one cannabis right but there's a lot of me one day it's not the people called anyone wants to have a psychotic episode correlates with which like I said some people but there's another component kind of physical CBD cannabidiol in some places in just a pill form complex picture then kind of his clothes is psychosis right very rich THC and some people will cause such as a real problem

things we can do to bring that one of the good things about illegal market and she kind of like it like that so we can limit the amount of THC that is available just like we can dream it you know you conquered by 70%. I'm gone through so has been arguing is we need to be and they exist but they need to be commercialized and promoted more cbd-rich kind of bits will actually be helpful to people with psychosis is cuz. Just a slightly more complicated saying the guy who used to go to bed Alex Bernstein endorsing the color of the simplest it be when I decide but the the thing that people is just one thing we agree on which is cannabis bad for young teenagers

Echo Fred Martin's who's in which casino in Camden New Jersey and when is a fancy word for this behind Epiphany about drug legalization one day park in Wayne New Jersey in 1971 it was in plain clothes up history on a kid comes out to Mike and eleven year old or something because they messed up

I'm not allowed to buy alcohol when you go into a liquor store and buy some for me and Frank has not get out of here so the kid walks over to the drug dealer and buy some drugs from him instead of realization which is he would have put it this way but legalization put some regulatory barrier between kids and drugs that doesn't exist right this is why since they legalized cannabis in Colorado this has been a significant full and teenage cannabis use Rite drug dealer license legal businesses do they really care if he's right sometimes it seems just the kind of protect our kids argument is used as a case for probation in fact if you want to protect your kids you should be putting a big premium on getting these substances out of the hands of armed criminal gangs into the hands of licensed legal businesses yeah I don't think anybody's going to argue that means I think that anybody rational rather I think that makes a lot of sense I think that the number of

people that have schizophrenia is fairly it's fairly stable in terms of the percentage of it across the board cannabis users are non cannabis users and so the argument against this idea that cannabis causes schizophrenia breaks as if these people already have schizophrenia and it just hasn't really manifested itself and in a tangible sense it was some evidence that kind of business in a small number of people quotes it's like Isis as a study in Sweden that share this with schizophrenia is much more contested psychosis vs. schizophrenia when it would have the major distinction John. Research this in-depth but very specific as a significant genetic component although that can be environmental triggers for it so it could possibly trigger ball that could possibly trigger psychosis and skits of the argument against

black ice is the argument Israel under things we can do an illegal markets contract that much holla at you in a prohibited Market but with schizophrenia but I'm not listen to some music about details so I don't want to listen to some great confidence I've been saying the other stuff as well we know that kind of cheese is massively increased in Britain for example a folding creases 1960 and Britain the same as cannabis use at least to some degree to be some relationship that doesn't seem to be the case so it says I haven't looked into that in great detail so he's basically rotten things that I have looked into that he says do they know what the mechanism would be that would cause someone to consume THC and have a psychotic break

as I've been examined enough about I would seem to be a big issue right like find out what it is that's causing its trigger and whether or not this exist in these people anyway and maybe a stressful situation a bad breakup losing their job maybe one of those things could also causes trigger

mental health problems there are three kinds of calls right mother lost connections about depression. This is a real brain changes things like the introduction of a drug there a psychological causes dry you think about yourself and your place in the world and then this environmental causes like you know how we live with each other things in almonds healthy to some degree these three sets of course is Pat obviously have a biological drive it right dimensions of physical degeneration of the brain disease like Alzheimer's even with dementia which at this very have a biological we know there are big social and psychological effects to mitigate it so if you're part of a strong community and social connections if you have a positive self-image if you speak other languages you dementia will develop significantly more slowly than if you don't have any of these

so with things like psychosis that's pretty impressive, Tanya luhrmann the first time you laminate Stanford University he's done really interesting research and see you shine so we know recovery from psychosis and schizophrenia is much stronger in African countries than it is in the United States right and it's not genetic thing as African to come to the United States end up having the American level of recovery not the African level of recovery and again it's a while since I spoke to you argue in part was going on in his

American know some places it's ready for you to open menopause Africa you remain part of the community even if you have these mental health problems right they have much stronger social connections is a study that also Americans how many close friends do you have for you could turn to in a crisis when they started doing it years ago the most common answer was fine today the most common answer is none right it's not the average what's the most common answer all Americans ask how many people know you well say nobody right so she has loneliness is toxic for human beings lonely people has Kaiju lyrics Primus was here in La lonely people exposed to the flu virus in the cold virus and the colds way more likely to actually get them the normal early people right it's just devastating feel physical and mental health to be lonely this other things going on so I think it's a whole range of things that going on with almonds

get that there's a big debate about immigrants would like to have psychosis the number it says there's a whole lot to call aspects as well very significant things about schizophrenia and play some role in things like depression for little people but yet I sense I mean sort of yeah I mean obviously there's varying biological factors but the cultural factors make sense the fact that these people in Africa are not they're not expelled from the community so they have a sense of bond and maybe it's more easy to recover and one of the things that you hear about part of the problem with mental illness is that people with belt mental illness are pushed away people don't want to deal with their problem and it exacerbates whatever is causing it in the first place

what drugs have you used to have to be slightly captain of my own so cuz I'm in an immigration process with the United States is prescription drug is called modafinil provigil provigil actually developed as a performance enhancer and they just had to find a reason to use it to use it and the reason to use it was to say I was going to be with narcolepsy what's a check to see if that's true because that's how it's been explained to me by actually by my doctor so I think to me

do you use that a lot to me I think. While I was working all the time so I grew up in a crazy and violent environment in many ways on my way of addiction about things on my way kaiping in that environment was to read arrival time to just not be present by just working right small child and I was really my way of being in the world right to work all the time and I think I like late 20s are coming back if I figure out when I start taking the initiative about it I was at that point where the obsessive compulsive work Wilson working for me it wasn't like a lot of people with addictive behavior I was doubling down on the thing that wasn't working that well

so the me modafinil was or provincial I put it on the internet

what's a way I thought initially and make it so I can work even more hours do we even more right than initially when you start taking it and pull it does make you feel it's not a caffeine Buzz wasn't Manny way it's just you feel like you can just someone put it to me it wasn't a scientist could be bulshit but so we evolved to we have to think what he's talking to focus right now I'm really concentrating on what I'm saying to you and your signals coming from you right we caught me in a state executive like this all the time right now

modafinil does it makes you much more the state executive Focus the longer you can see why people get the fuck away from the lion right now I'm understanding is modafinil trick is that accept 30 really big downside splatfest that you don't sleep and if you don't sleep you butt fucking crazy I'd ever heard that there's an issue was sleeping and modafinil provigil that you can sleep on it was designed for people who buy too hot to stay awake that's not true that was a sleep study neurophysiologist and was working on the compound address or adress fennel and then they discovered then made modafinil witches

perversion of that somebody is there anything that says that it was originally developed as a performance-enhancing like that fucking dr. Just like you don't use my research on this truck my experience was especially not sleeping which is really bad for you every time you look so you your mind needs time wandering sorry your mind needs to write it needs time and then when you wonder when a man is wondering when things will come to your mind is processing things even though you're not conscious of it right

Nuvigil or provigil are very similar it didn't seem like there was much creativity going on but it was more of like a grunt tool I would not use it regularly I would take it like once a couple weeks once a week or so like that I think I did it for like a year year so I just stopped haven't taken in years but I liked it some guy was a biohacker he was the one who told me about it and you said it was pretty easy to get a prescription for it. A prescription for her and it just gave you like this popped up sense of focus and awareness thought you'd get a lot done when you're on it but it didn't seem like it help with those wondering creative thoughts as you were saying exams again which Fortune I will never do in my life I will I would use that I think I think you're right

about in relation to addiction I think you talked about addiction by probably childhood trauma that experienced

does Benadryl change how we think about that is what it really expect to assess a Ride Stop. Chemical hooks right if you look at the debate about known drug based addictions right think about 20 years ago. Sex addiction Geico Stanton Peele wind speed law flashlights. Love Addiction Counseling gambling addiction but I'm sorry it just seems like without snow episode of Chile is actually which I'm now would be you wouldn't do this to the whole premise of the show is Ted Danson's character thinks he's a sex addict and this is like a punch line all the way through the shy right this is the attitude have sex Whenever Wherever Madden and you can just put his arm around Earth at the end of the the end of the show I write that wouldn't happen in the sitcom now

very idea of sex addiction is ridiculous in the way they did right I don't think I'm being a shift in with a friend from bridge disposal mom said they might as well be chasing crack

addiction none of the chemical hooks that tells about how we overestimated the rototiller is it in for me this pen is a tempting to write it like in the brain and destructive issue there so something about gambling there's a lot of self-hate involved in end of this this overwhelming feeling of failure but a lot of gambling addicts have because they fail so often and they're they're always trying to chase the dragon there was trying to make up for all the past things have gone wrong with this big score with this big score going to settle it out and about at the Netherlands to she didn't say he says

we should call it diction we should call it bonding the human beings have an innate need to bond and connect right I mean you're happy and healthy you'll bonding connect with like people around you with me or what if you can't do that cuz you're isolated or traumatized or beaten down by life we haven't or have to do that

you will bond with something if you some sense of relief right now for some people that might be pulling for some people that might be gambling some alcohol what I thought because if you if you only have one bond is getting you any relief you will obsessively returns that pond right on the way to think about some of these behavioral addictions right so I someone I know very well a relative of mine has a gambling addiction and this is someone who has

no tentative form of Joy or pleasure in their life right and

gambling gives a moment lens

happy someone watching a nice movie right it's you can see I didn't mean I'm sorry if I should pick up some with an addiction problem

it's the it's the relief of just being absent from your life for a moment or 5 lug you play rather than I went to the

lost connections book about depression I went to the first of the internet rehab center in the United States is sick with places in high school restart restart Washington

I'm about driving is a clearing in the woods so I wouldn't play some Kenny Woods instinctively look at my final fitting really admit I got the car already pissed off so I can check my email about what you're in the right place right as they get what kinds of people and restart Washington but they disproportionately get young men who are obsessed with multiplayer role-playing games like fortnite

and speaking of this young man

this realization to look into the woman who runs it is amazing women who talked to Hillary cash they said to me

go to ask

go to ask what these young men are getting out of this game cuz I getting something out of it right and she thinks I getting is the things that used to get from the culture but no longer cat like what a feeling that good at something I feeling the other people see them to that part of a tribe I feeling that that moving around you kids spend very little time Outdoors now right I think there's also anticipation there's puzzles there's things we trying to figure out whether or not something is right or wrong and how to get it and then if you do get it you get this positive surge of you don't get any think there's a human reward systems that are being mirrored there a gambling as well get something if you will be depressed and anxious right will be much more like

we actually don't ask anything of young men write Austin do very much given responsibilities right I think I got them with stress and miss people playing video games and addicted to get from a pleasure there a lot of people playing them have a real problem with them they take a massive hours at a time it's a giant problem with young boys I mean that the thing is it's become an actual Avenue for career now there's Esports careers where these young guys are making millions of dollars playing video games it's not like the old days where you would say hey you're wasting your life now it's basically almost like practicing golf but we have a set up back here when we play video games against each other it's very addictive

write the basketball has movement in exercise attached to it so you get some positive benefit from that addiction I was definitely addicted to Jiu-Jitsu I would even train when I was injured you know but what does that mean it means I enjoyed it more than Android not doing it the difference between a lot of video game addictions and particulate gambling addictions is that they tend to wreck people's lives is Jiu-Jitsu did you cuz I can finish and distinction that what are you doing it to avoid some kind of pain in your life or are you doing it cuz you just really deeply love it's really fun in the thrill I mean I'm certain I was avoiding pain with almost everything I've done in my life in some way shape or form and there's some of it where you're trying to do something positive to mitigate the pain or the frustration or the anger whatever it is that's bothering you but I don't you know I did a video game thing was a real addiction that was like a compulsion and I wasn't buying years

how did you get out of the truck quit I just quit cold turkey stop playing I realize it was kind of messing up my life and my career was taking up way too much time and I just I came to a realization also I got to stop doing this I'm just playing way too much that's why I just said the only way I'm just too competitive enjoy it too much and so the only way to do it was to stop playing it all together and we started playing it again recently after more than shit more than 15 years of ever playing at all you know and it's still addictive but I'm so busy now I can't really fall into the grip of it I'm actually just enjoying it for an hour here are there

the more you have in your life that is Meaningful that is good I'm guilty pleasure or small Story the less space that will be for these objects that I'm Sarah I'm in right now and I think that is a principal that's true this is the principal organization right lives they will not one of these the Tyson so so yeah it's the Swiss principal and I think we all see that knowledge different degrees you know

the happier I am the less I want to turn to you know the behaviors are developed a child to avoid being present with like violence and aggression like I don't think I like writing is an addiction is might be a compulsion if I have a day when I get to I feel terrible but something in riches your life and is not it's a way of living life in the most fulfilling a positive Obsession way of being in the world right like I told it's like sometimes I get people saying to me you know her like I am I addicted to sex in or whatever you want to say

does it give you pleasure does it is it

is it bad is it a way of avoiding paying polyone Audrey Los Que in English and chasing screams when it's a deeply reconceptualized how we think about these forms of pain. Depression and addiction in this isn't some wacky this has to do with the World Health Organization is leading the people that are a journalist and writers often like stimulants are often like adderal Adderalls a big issue for for for journalists how how much experience do you have with that are all used it it's supposed to be amazing me neither I got a young relative who is prescribed it and that's a lot of times when I've been

is this for you which is this again which is that lives at that I have before I came here I drink enough caffeine to kill a whole fucking feel the cows right and I assume student least because because I know every day for three months right which was ludicrous thing today

I think in terms of stimulants that's all it needs to be hot and I'm going to write about this at some point but

running 10 13 year old boys in this country is being given a stimulant drug right in any given you a ride for add or ADHD horrifying is crazy 30% of children in foster care in the United States have been given at least one psychiatric drug yeah it's even fucking abused and what do we do we drop them to shut them up for iPods also children have a lot of energy and it's not easy to control them and so they decided these children have something wrong with them when I went to the Amish Village close connections between things are very interesting there are these people who argue that he's to be more research on this but Amish children ADHD and

so this one ottoman which is the opposite of exposed to digital media which may be some evidence of speaking to Preston Steven Lee Hammond people are getting a lot lower. UCLA versus stagnation is some if I did not touch them do you have kids you that when I sit still I like guy yeah fishing the Amish don't want to make you sit still fight tonight there's nothing in this society that I'm just not your mother's sea otters in a child to sit still for 8 hours a day just like trying to get a puppy to sit still for 8 hours a day and discipline type I'm thrive in a dead-end and disciplined investor comes economy right if you don't

school system is designed in the 1870s to prepare people to work in factories write in a factory in the 1870s what do you need you need to learn to shut the fuk up not complain be passive do what you're told right this is some African tickets Amy says every school has 2 curriculum or curricula vs. curriculum which is like with a history whatever and then you have the hidden curriculum which is the kind of person the school is trying to make you into right and who are obedient sit still and shut the fuk up right now that was never a good way to make humans right that was always wrong but it's particularly useful in that the cops are we created and this relates to one of the causes of depression. Right by love connection switches you know Preston anxious the depression

side effects is around that what we took back the last time I was on a thing people I know maybe they're on usual right. See what people feel about their work right

13% of people one 3% like that what most of the time 63% of what they called Sleep Well King you don't want you to hate it you could have told her I'd it and 24% of people fucking hate and fear their jobs I don't like some of this some relationship to a mental health crisis right more about the average person I think the first email at 7:43 a.m. and leaves work at 7:15 p.m. to the closest depression at work right now if you go to work tomorrow and you are controlled so you have low will no control of your welcome much more likely

become depressed and anxious people have psychological needs used to look at something next to your life has meaning if you control the time you called right first time I went to see some mom at a misunderstanding implications of this cuz I thought he was saying

Romy I thought you were saying I can't go to 13% of elite people at the top of you and me get type jobs we love and then you go everyone else is condemned to the shit right but that was a bus driver my grandmother clean toilets condemned to these miserable I should explain to me it's not the work that makes you depressed right is being controlled at work and there was solutions to the other changes we can make right I went to interview this morning

go to Meredith Kia in Baltimore to Paris this pretty interesting change and some some people listen again I think I'm going to say that I should do this every Sunday night just sick with anxiety right shunt office job it wasn't the worst of his job in the world as she would tell you she wasn't being bullied or harassed or anything but it was boring it was controls can't stand the thought this was going to be the next 40 years of her life so one day with her husband Josh Meredith it is quite Bowl thing Josh husband to be working in part store since he was a kid and teenager Pest Control work is insecurity Titan have rights really I want that Josh in his colleagues in the bike store and they all stem cells what does a good deal to me right up a bike store that works on different principal right before was a corporation

most people listening to work in corporations you know it's a very recent human invention you know how it works as an army the boss of the top is not the little thick tights are you going to obey him only frightened sometimes he's a nice and sometimes has Kim Jong-un but you know that right

Josh and his colleagues decided to stop a bike store the brakes on a different principle it's not a corporation is a democratic Cooperative so they don't have a boss they run the business together they take decisions about it better to have met you once every couple of weeks to practice they agree but they share the profits they share out the good tasks in the shity tasks Business School Baltimore Bicycle Works spending time with them Turtle alarm for 5 minutes findings is

getting them back control over their work made the much less unhappy depressed and anxious right and it's not like you know they quit that job fixing bikes and went off to become Beyonce's backing singers right they fix bikes before they fix bikes now devices no control over that work right giving people back control over their work is a really powerful antidepressant Corporation Kabhi Kabhi a democratic Cooperative that's a big change in our society but it's the big changes in a society there's no reason University content of credit what places on average Bull X faster than undemocratic what places are committed by bringing more of that energy in their life to it

we go to understand cuz that's why did addiction is so bad as what grandstand

people who are showing the signs of distress depression anxiety addiction

doing that note cuz that crazy there's some biological factors that are not rational but mostly it's just actually we build a society that has no good for them and we should be listening to that I'm respecting that I like the guy. During Vietnam sets me listen to your nausea it will tell us what's wrong with you we should be listening to that nausea and using it as a kind of fuel to change change the way we live in Waist oh my God we're just make people depressed and anxious addictive but everyone's life will be better off if they can or if you go through some of the other big solutions to depression and anxiety that I brought nine and connections now lost connections is your most recent book about the two of them together Tyson screen because of this Addiction in my family

and I go in this picture and you let the world understand the drug war and I said a line in my I did a TED talk about it cooled everything that you know about addiction is wrong and I said a line in that accept evictions connection I said earlier in our conversation

facial rock park right I lost the people started saying to me

well you just saying it's social isolation right like loneliness and I'm very clean in my mind that's the lesson of rock park right there anything that makes life meaningful obviously much more

most complex allows right

what is actually missing for people who are addicted depressed anxious what is driving this crisis that question that people kept asking me out with some problems of disconnection but I can understand when I was in the Well from the crazy Mister places like an Amish Village in Indiana cuz the Amish have low levels of depression to a live in Baltimore that come to your city in Brazil

to see if that would make them feel better did it which Bad Bunny habitat yeah yeah

everyone knows that junk food is taking over our diets and made us physically sick right but this is really interesting evidence. Kind of junk values of taking over our minds and made us mentally sick so that thousands of years philosophers of said if you think life is about money and status and how you look to other people in a kind of showing off way you're going to feel like shit right it's not an exact quote from Confucius but that is the gist of what he said right Wiggly scientifically investigated this until an incredible guy on timcast size in Knox College in Illinois I made some really important and breakthroughs in this so

this two ways everyone listen to your show has two kinds of motivation in their life bright mixture of both so much and if you play the piano in the morning cuz you love playing the piano it gives you Joy right that would be what school did an intrinsic recent play the cat I write you're not doing it to get anything out of it that's just a thing you love for you is like that for me everyone have something in their life just gets them joy as they did it right can you play the piano no because you loved it but

because your parents are massively pressuring you it's bad writing to you that you can't stand to pay the rent Orcutt impress a woman right extrinsic reason to play the piano note to stop and get you throw you to get something fell down the line right place values the Mojo intrinsic value as a starved the more likely you are to become depressed and anxious but quite significant amount he also has a culture as a society we have become much more driven by this junk values we become much more driven by Instagram makes you feel sure we become much more driven by this Halo external sensor say simple as a little while ago I was at Alton Jones last night in Caesars Palace right and about half the fucking room is is filming It on the Mountain John

true that finds a small example but you can see what they think in order to display the life to invite NV from other people they are not living that life no one wants to watch your shity video of Elton John hundred thousands of videos about how much better than yours right why are you doing that you're doing it to say to other people Envy me right in that room. She makes you feel like you're not enjoying the experience the reason that relates to what you're asking about Brazil is two sets of solutions to these junk values taken over our minds can I get the messaging out of your head more 18 month old children know what the McDonald's and means the know they're inside their last name right from the moment

Casa put it to me for the moment we're born with a Master machine that is designed to get us to neglect what is important about life right none of your listeners will lie on their deathbeds I think about all the shit I bought at all the lights that go on Instagram. Think about moving some meaning in connection at the Cabana I'll be extinct but we constantly pushed to not thinking those times to think about Sherry off by spend right these junk values of taking over online support of the solution is just fucking get rid of most of this advertising get rid of most of this very tightly regulated in doing so you limit Commerce you're limiting people's ability to sell things you're you're changing their the current market that a lot of people don't have any problem with I know this is a heresy in the United States special speech is fine by me yeah I think it's fascinating I think it's a fascinating discussion but it is in the end of sentence limiting Free Speech as well I mean that we have a real problem with that the problem with it is that as soon as you start to put any regulations at all

and you know I say all you shouldn't be allowed advertising to advertise even if it's advertising honestly about a great product if he will have real issues with that regulation you, you, and I've been saying I found the cure for cancer right cuz I'm saying honestly Billboards exactly it was a billboard impossibly Hall and the billboard said something like all you beach body ready about these people he'll never fucking look like you're not ready to go to the beach and the mayor of London city con just have to see, do this right it's not an unattainable ideal you're looking at two examples of it but they they're real human beings but if you do want to look

like that man and have that body it is a possible goal majority of people write like if they don't have the time but very many people have radically changed my body I'm not saying I'm not saying you should do it possible thing to do in trying to sell Fitness wouldn't you sell an example of someone is really good at it but if you're trying to sell a business course when you show a guy with a giant house and a Ferrari like this is a guy has done really well at business look at his Penthouse apartment overlooking Manhattan you wouldn't shut you and say well that's an impossible goal I'm going to show you a person in a middle-class suburb cuz this is good as you ever going to get as

Prima people Tamaki where they want to take them days to Nanny State issue the problem with these are impossible to achieve body goals we already have regulation distance for example if so how do we stop people being pumped full of bullshit junk values right to keep them on what's Happening to them and make it less appealing but this is the second part did she was working with a guy called Nathan Dungan and Nathan is a run speed Nathan is a financial advisor Minneapolis and his job was to work with adults

trouble budgeting and explain to them how to do it right from school middle class school wasn't super rich class without having a problem with the kids at the school were becoming obsessed with getting out the latest Nike sneakers wide is iPhone or whatever it was and if their parents couldn't afford at the kids were really freaking out right then would you come in I just explain budgeting to these kids right said I think I was in a tries to explain budgeting and quickly realizes that they are so obsessed with this program that lets a really interesting breakthrough in this context

a call and you can touch the sky. But they did it with parents in that teenagers write they come in it was once every couple of weeks but I think four months and a fast I just say the first meeting I had just said write a list everything you have got to have him to find that right people of course I like a hoe, but I got a kite tell me how you would feel if you got these Nike sneakers right and very rarely any of them are like basketball players was like I need to jump or whatever it was accepted by the grave paper with engine right yeah everyone thinks they're smarter than the ad but giving people the ability just to see how hollow those junk body is without the first part II took longer than I ever have in future sessions

giving people the ability just to see how hollow those junk cars without the first or second part was much more interesting and took longer than I would have your future sessions I say what am I missing your life when you have felt satisfied happy in a flow state of things that are meaningful to you playing sports play music by reading what if it was a second how could we build more of that into your life unless of these junk values how could you be more of this every week I just made it we don't have these conversations in a couple of weeks I check in a managed to play guitar for an hour everyday I managed on Saturday to take my kids to the beach we went whatever materialism Electro significant ships in people's bodies that they had a significant decrease in joint pain knees and a significant increase in in more mini for intrinsic

actually make you feel better but a moment in your life when you have felt satisfied happy in a flow state of things that are meaningful to you playing sports play music I'm reading what if it was right how could we build more of that into your life unless of these drunk. He's getting more of this every week I just made it we don't have these conversations in a culture graphing just meeting once every couple of weeks I check in return. Actually managed to play guitar for an hour everyday I managed on Saturday to take my kids to the beach and we went whatever materialism what Alexis is monitored by Professor Casa Electra significant chips in people's bodies they they they they have a significant decrease in joint pain knees and a significant increase in in more meaningful intrinsic values and we know that correlates with Laura depression and anxiety of the time thing is I who am I

and we know that correlates with Laura depression and anxiety of the time I'm giving people permission to know the thing they already know right like completely bizarre experience from the book Fest came out while I was being interviewed by some was some time alone in his causes depression right I'm interviewing like controversial Theory

I'm giving people permission to know the thing they already know right like completely bizarre experience by some American is here from here was depression write an interview like controversial Theory

singer of thought

how do we get to the point we're putting out the most fucking obvious thing you could imagine if you're really lonely are much more likely to become controversial special is because these biological stories which have some truth in them have dominated her when I was a teenager and I was really depressed and I said I had this feeling like pain was leaking out of me I couldn't control it my doctor told me anytime you need to self write myself and I got some relief for the chemical antidepressant but it did not stop my depression what reason is cuz after 13 years attack in the maximum possible. I was like there's something missing in this picture I still feel depressed and every year that I've been alive on 42 pressure and anxiety of increased in the United States and Britain and Across the Western world is something missing in this picture I think the reason why that's country

social it seems contribution to you and me is crazy to think it's controversial some basis in reality I become the hold of the picture for a lot of people right I had a completely bizarre experience where I get a piece of tail do you know but I know about Trump campaign

I'm going to take a piece of tail just before his alter Trump in a little bit before he been inaugurated his people to go to a they were organizing a conference app developers were trying to

cantabella apps to do with depression anxiety and addiction in a bit like I had the cops over to the station but I wouldn't excuse to get to San Francisco anyway so I got a conference every speech some really great scientist people at Thomas and so is that for my head is national student health he's a man I'm seeing that I'm like

just looking at pictures of brain scans right if all you knew about depression and anxiety was this conference on addiction you would literally think they were just things that happen inside the brain yes I don't like the last person. But I think suit design what do I say to these people and I thought

it's like I'm trying to match suppose you could have a conference about obesity that just looked askance at people's stomachs right it would be untrue it wouldn't be bad science being missed the whole fucking reason why the fuk you could you could tell the plot of Romeo and Juliet using like Newtonian physics you put your diagram Romeo and Juliet mean you don't understand a damn thing about what anyone does anything right it was such a deep misunderstanding or no misunderstanding such a partial truth or fiction

just walk over to the tenderloin sit with the first person with an addiction problem with me listen to that long story for half an hour and come back and tell me the main problem here is a malfunction of the amygdala it's a bizarre misunderstand is it important to understand of course it's a big production of a human beings are to think that these are the main drivers of these crises right yes it's ridiculous yeah I agree that we have to wrap this up where it where do you go after anyone who wants any more fucking with me if I die inside chasing the scream is ww.w. Chasing the scream. Calm and listen to audio addiction and lost connection to the Lost connections.

expected fixed while you can get on those sites beautiful thank you very much. Com / Rogan go there and quit starts just $25 and you will get your first refill pack for free with a quip electric toothbrush that's get your first refill pack for free at getquip cam Rogan thank you also to SimpliSafe SimpliSafe plays and gentleman home security incredibly well design home security that more than 3 million people already use in America today and with fantastic reviews protect your home today get a get a system with free shipping on any system order just visit simplisafe.com Rogan that's SimpliSafe. Com Rogan to protect your home and family today at SimpliSafe

dot-com Rogan and last but not least we are brought to you by honey it's almost like stealing like getting free money next time you shopping on Amazon don't wonder if you found the best deal just add the honey browser extension and get the best price automatically add honey for free at joinhoney.com Rogan that's joinhoney.com Rogan thank you thank you everybody for TuneIn appreciate you much love to you all bye-bye