#1035 - Paul Stamets

Nov 7, 2017

Paul Stamets is a mycologist, author and advocate of bioremediation and medicinal fungi. Check out

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research and it's a treat just a real treat to be able to talk to someone who understands so much about something that I know so little and most of us know so little about that subject is fungi mushrooms mycelium the original organisms perhaps of the Earth the original life of the earth and he just been able to podcast I enjoyed it please welcome Paul stamets

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The Joe Rogan Experience

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all right Papa first Wawa welcome thank you for coming here and you are probably one of the most requested people from the internet that I've ever had so feel good about that and I'm honored the first shroom hat that's really a hat made out of mushrooms made from this Amadou mushroom it's called family from interest grows on Birch trees throughout the world but this is an example of why I think shamanistic lily plants mushrooms become significant there's a plurality of benefits so this mushrooms a fire starter mushroom Kit allowed for the portability of fire if there's no doubt that we came from Africa we migrated North we discover something new called winter this allowed for the portability of fire in Halo this mushroom output members of the fire inside and carry fire for days if your clan could not read Kindle Fire in Europe in the winter time you would die so when you this have sex I made by some ladies in Transylvania hardwood conch

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but when you soak it in lye water in ashes and water it delaminate since this fabric is very soft German felt it's extremely flammable the punk that ignited gunpowder so even the Chinese invented you know Chinese invent Gunpowder the Europeans and then at the rifle so this loud Flint spark guns to ignite the gunpowder this feels amazing it is as high priest can you get that's a great question depending on the size of the Conch on Beech trees are much bigger than Birch these trees just naturally get larger so large of the Conchords up the more fabric you can tell her but this mushroom is made of mycelium back basically with the fabric is a soluble fabric called mycelium

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and this is actually I have one that caught on fire because I'm smoking a joint near me and the Empress of the joint of my hat that's just immediately go up now it burns really slowly so suffuse is it is because you can like this thing and beekeepers for hundreds of years uses for smoking the hives of bees because it's so we can we can light it now I'm in the whole thing with one slick with a dick and this single smoke entirely in about 10 minutes and turn nothing into white ash fire alarms may go off then yeah probably and so with this thing this larger piece they would Hollow this out put an ember in there would they have a have to blow on the Amber has a height you could blow on little that you can tap it and then you can put it in your pocket. Famous ice man that was found in the Border Vienna Austria he had this tell her to his right side which is the position of significant scene of things that you need like your knife you knowing things that you want to make sure

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you have this on the right side so this is one example of a threat of knowledge of use of mushrooms that goes over Millennium and the most of the threats have been afraid of broken and the in the chain of knowledge but this is one of the threads that was not broken and it's significant I think it's we are much more depend upon mushrooms and we were forced people then we are now seemingly in the city's but this coming full circle very quickly mushrooms are weird in that some of them are incredibly edible and nutritious and other ones will kill you and sometimes they look really similar to each other well this is the way the mystery of mushrooms and I think it speaks to also Michael phobia the fear of mushroom son R Gordon Wasson first coined the term but think about it and you're a visual landscape for the animals you see them for months years and plants so you haven't already factored but mushrooms that come up and disappeared for 5 days some of them

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did you some can kill you some can heal you something send you on a spiritual journey so they have something so powerful and yet so ephemeral is natural for humans to avoid that which I don't understand out of fear because they don't know the difference between a 23 primates consume mushrooms one of them of mushrooms going back yuno and our primate evolutionary tree for a very very long time what how many species of mushrooms are there

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he doesn't even like ready asked me that question 5 years ago I would have said 1.5 million and now we're up to about 5 million just being is being estimated number of plants 5 to 10 to 1 and I just speak at Ted in Ted conference is shocking with the smartest brains in the world not until just recently do they realize what US Mycologist have known for a long time to 30% of the soil Mass when you're walking on sole 30% of the biological carbon is fungal

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and the biggest biggest 30% 30% of soil is fungal Mass living and dead of healthy soil so and is the biggest repository of carbon in the world in the ground is related these fungal networks so there is about 8.3 to about 10 million species in the planet about right now about half of those are fungal species they outnumber plants up to 8 to 1:10 to 1 by some estimates I really nice one meter of a tree root

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for every meter of a tree root there's a kilometer of my soul am I think of that 3 feet vs 2,200 feet so that that the expansiveness of the mycelial network in our Landscapes is vast and it's sensitive I think they're sentient they respond to every footprint that we take on this planet and as you walk across Landscapes you're breaking wood and that makes nutrition available and said the competition a fun guy to find a new nutrition is fierce and so first to the menu wins this is something that we are now understanding how essential they are for preserving biodiversity in for the health of the ecosystems as well as our own personal hell to to what degree I mean and you're not talking about just like psilocybin

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Amanita muscaria our describe Concepts that we're trying to wear struggling with so let me describe it this way then we separated from franchise 650 million years ago I know some people that are probably still descendants of fun joy we share more common ancestor of fungi than we do with any other Kingdom and fungi are closer to animals and they are plants animals came from Punjab you and I are actually fungal bodies I'm speaking to basically another fungal body right now so Joe Rogan I mean whether you know it or not you you're basically a fungal Mass cellular point of view under the microscope human cells animal cells and fungal cells are very similar we exhale carbon dioxide we inhale oxygen

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who founded as a fungus says we separated from fungi basically which was about to encapsulate are nutrients and cellular soccer stomach digestion of nutrients within the fungal systems digest their nutrients externally they exhale oxygen in Hill a carbon dioxide and their Network like design allows them to respond to catastrophism and what I mean by that is that the my cellular networks are so dense in the soil and they have literally hundreds of billions of chips and disease tips are growing out they tend to be poly nucleotide at the tips and allows them to upregulate do enzymes acid sequences Etc said there's a new ethological challenge new food source a new toxin or something these fungal networks are so great plasticity and being able to code for new sequences from their DNA

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one of those hundreds of billions of tips to find a new enzyme to break down at auction or a new food source and what happens then is that information than is incorporated genetic play into the mycelial network in the mycelium then surges because as new food logically and so we're charges in prison do we now know there's evidence that that my cellular network then that his benefits from that tip exploration and Discovery so these are like massively resilient adaptive organisms that have a network-based design not dissimilar from that of our neural networks not dissimilar from the computer and or not and more and more of that I explore this the more I'm convinced that we will find network Place organisms throughout the cosmos problem probably a fungal systems and fungal systems ultimately give rise in our case animals is more likely we'll find fungal animal relationships all all three

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Universal do you think that there's some unknown way that animals are connected in some sort of a similar way as well that if if animals came from fungus than fungus has this incredible way of communicating with each other do you think there's something like that with it in the animal kingdom that we haven't discovered that stimulates my thought into and talking about the microbiome the mycelial Landscapes networks they don't live by themselves they selected microbiome of bacteria and other organisms that rest upon the man on these fungal networks of the foundation to the food web well we have a microbiome and it's really interesting that the many of the bacterial diseases that infect fun joy also infect us our best antibiotics against bacteria come from fungi penicillin being the obvious example but we have found out doing sex next-gen sequencing and this has never been published before

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the mycelial match growing in the very same wood chips in our case I've been fermented we had a thousandfold difference in the relative abundance of General the bacteria from the very same wood chips to different mushroom species planted on this wood chips and the microbiome said that were created and selected for by the mycelium were vastly different this released strongly supports the concept is a hypothesis was quickly becoming a theory a difference in a minute but this will support the concept that I have long believed in a spouse that these maisel networks other not just happenstance they are just you're creating the habitats in the Flora and then ultimately the fauna that a resident within the ecosystem to guarantee the for outing about adversity of the ecosystem by creating the plants occur that grow up that feed the animals insects to create the debris fields in that feed the mycelium for the benefit of progeny of the mushrooms out forms thereafter so these are

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organisms are setting the stage for ecologic yvolution and you think that they're doing this in a conscious manner of our Consciousness trying to Define what is conscious and what a smart when the best arguments I've had my brother Bill is a Super Genius is far smarter than in the myself and he was attending one of my books mycelium running how much time can help save the world in and he goes Paul you cannot say that has is intelligent intelligent I respect you but you didn't realize it he'll pieocracy of the statement that you're giving me you're telling me nature is not intelligent and yet you are bored of nature used in the mine to conceive the concept that challenged the idea that nature is not intelligent when you are part of nature yeah that's that's indefensible describe concept so you feel like your brother was hampered by these predetermined categories that we like to put things into it.

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use that word the word is very clearly defined in our idea thank you thank you yes we code and we don't have we haven't elaborated the code yet to elucidate the concept that we're trying to articulate that is not mean that just because you can't prove is true doesn't mean that hasn't happened so as our vocabulary increases you know as our lexicon of language increases we got more robot that I think we can better better describe test in and prove that these concepts are true but we are biologically provincial when we think about how limited we are truly knew their weapons semi this is when you look at the how

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how important natural ecosystems are try to replicate them they're very very difficult to replicate their complexity so I think the more that we study nature most all of a scientist that subscribe to the adage that the more we studied the subject the more we realize we didn't know and their hubris of us thinking that these things cannot occur did not occur will not occur really speaks to our provincial attitude towards nature fungus fungi are creating their environment and an almost there The Architects of this environment they're they're establishing the landscape for all these different creatures and and life-forms to live is unbelievably fascinating that the idea that the end also that they're connected right they're connected in some sort of almost like a neural network and there's nothing in the Pacific Northwest 01 fungus group that's essentially the largest living organism on the face of the Earth

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soreness in the world so far discovered is a mycelial mat 2,200 acres in size and that's equivalent about 665 football fields that's one animal is one my Salome at 1 am I so mad is a honey mushroom that kills trees is an edible mushroom but think of this so for those listeners out there any soil biologist known as well if you go out and get some nice rich soil a gram of it and you analyze it typically is a million five million microbes program in that soil of the mycelium is growing out and we have five or six skin layers that protect us from an infection the mycelium only has one cell wall on the other side at cell wall or hundreds of millions of micros for ground they're trying to consume it many of the mycelium is able to up regulate in the constant biomolecular communication this ecosystem be able to prevent Predators from consuming that's allowing it to achieve the largest mastiff

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organism in the world this is amazing to me because it means that is constantly and in communication with the ecosystem being challenged accepting a lion so Guilds of my microbiomes are being created selected by the mycelium and these guilds and communities that cooperate in order to prevent pathogens parasites even competing guilds from coming into the landscape so the dominance of these funds I are doing sure the ecosystems to give lies their progeny the rule of natural selection of life is reproduction so everything steers towards reproduction some evolutionary biology point of view what will that orgasm do to help survive it so it can reproduce and and reproduction to creating Guilds of communities of the microbiome using the mycelial network as historical Foundation the food web seems to be the name of the game here so this honey mushroom is that what it's called and that lives in the Pacific Northwest it how is it killing these trees

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is a root parasite so it comes in and kills the trees and I spend a lot of time in the old growth forest and lot of hiking I've always been wondering wondering about Meadows in the subalpine Regents is all of these subalpine Forest didn't you come out in this is giant Meadows though I suspect that the is honey mushroom is a meadow maker your climaxes these trees it kills them they then die and then they grow saprophytic league but then it clears a can of Thieves like Roshes with the mushrooms first has a parasite kill the tree then I say saprophyte. Probz another word for it it's a decomposer it breaks down that material but as it decomposes the 30% of wood becomes water so the mycelium generates water as a water lenses are being created the valley of more sunlight grasses and flourish and so I

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suspect that these martians Rockaway Meadow makers allowing than the elk in the deer and marmots and what not to exist in this graph environments has a way of rebuilding the nitrogen Source in in the soil so I think these are over a great huge the timescales we have to get away from the concept of our life span or even a hundred two hundred years we need to think of millennial terms you know it's over many many Millennia this is unbelievably fascinating this is something that there's some really fantastic research that's come out in the past two years I'm I'm up at science Ambassador for the AAA and so I am a little bit out there but I'm really happy that I have so much scientific support these days a lot of things I've been talking about for 20 years or now felt well rooted in been proven one of the things up that has been so fast

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and still I'm still wrapping my mind around this but you know the universe was created about 13.8 billion years ago for the Big Bang the Earth coalesce out of Stardust about 4.5 billion their earliest records of wife we have is about 3.8 billion years ago single celled or single-celled organisms but just recently a lava beds in South Africa they found my psyllium infused it a lava 2.4 billion years ago now we 650 million years ago and then a Brazil this past year they found a fully intact apparently a fossilized mushroom it published in nature is a very reputable scientific journal and that one is 1.4 billion years old is the oldest multicellular organism in the fossil record today is as fungus and lava in South Africa 2.4 billion

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a fully-formed mushroom who has its form was we were we separated from find a 650 another form longer than we've had our form by more than a billion years here Jamie just pulled it up on the screen here so we can take a look at it from Brazil so this is the

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pause is still at the embassy you familiar with the one that has just been published in the past they have a great name that's a tongue twister to pronounce this is gondwana agar ascites magnificence why do they do that do they do that to make people like me feel stupid they don't have to know that name so so it looks better if you have a long Latin sounding name of that mushrooms have their form before we had ours these are Elders these are these are ancient organisms these are they really the overlord underlords of our ecosystem and I suspect and eyes of these neural networks have more neural Connections in my soil Master if there were a thousand acres and we have no brain they are actually accumulating knowledge and intelligence but I think that as time goes on I hope that we will be able to interface with them because I think that there is a there is many benefits of us communicating with mycelium that can give us

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rapid responses to catastrophic that's how they've evolved and we're now their biggest walking catastrophe that I know I'm walking across the planet and we need to engage these are the benefits that we need to put into played in order to prevent the loss of biodiversity it seems like a communication gap would be very hard to bridge the communication gap mean if we really did find a way to communicate in some form with mushrooms like the concept of language like you were talking about just the idea of Nature and intelligence and these words that we have that we have these sort of concrete definitions in our head that don't really apply to some things that are very very confusing to us like the idea of fungal intelligence the idea that you could somehow or another understand the language that these think we were we don't even understand dolphin language write a Japanese

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clever at this stage there's a slime mold called physarum polycephalum and they had a slime mold is very very good at navigating through mazes some challenges I mean first of food winds conservation of energy is rewarded so they designed a nutrient basic a nutrient like maze replicating Tokyo and the Japanese subway system and so they started it with Tokyo and they put oats which is the nutritional Source they did not cleated what is on this basic and Agra map with all the major cities the nodes around Tokyo and they then make ceaseless nodes I had a piece of oat on them was a source of nutrition the main oat was were Tokyo was they

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modulated it and then they let the slime mold then grow and go out randomly exploratory Lee you know just like you would do do if you were a hunter or something or hunting on the landscape looking for things and then after about 28 hours it reorganizes itself in the most efficient way possible and reorganize the Japanese subway system in a more efficient manner that is designed today

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that's the way they said not mean I Paul stamets this is a demonstration of cellular intelligence so this is the tip of the proverbial Iceberg you know this is it has a broader implications and I just want people to suspend their disbelief and this goes in tub it actually evolution of human consciousness in the Terence McKenna was a good friend of mine I love Terrence I supposed to love them the last five years of his life because he made fun of himself so much Terrence people took Terrance way too seriously and many levels but he has his brother Dennis that which I think has been on your show a great scientist but this is freaking amazing is the dentist book came up with it staying stoned ape Theory now it's not a theory a hypothesis hypothesis is speculative but cannot necessarily be as not yet proven a theory is a half

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offices that has been tested and proven with facts so I disagree with them and so I guess not theories and hypotheses but the hypothesis this is that with climate change in as a Savannah's increase in our primate ancestors came out of their tracking across the Savannah and if you're a hunter what do you look you look for footsteps me the Prescott then the most significant fleshy mushroom growing out of poop in Africa hippopotamus elephants you know Antelope excetera is lost because it's a very large mushroom you're hungry you're with your clan you consume it

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and then 20 minutes later you're you are catapulted in this extraordinary experience psilocybin substitutes the serotonin becomes a better Tripp neurotransmitter activates neurogenesis it causes new neurons to form new Pathways of knowledge so that's a stoned ape hypothesis and it speaks to a mystery that the human brain basically the brain cavity doubled in size in about 2 million years some people say his lessons to a less than 200,000 Homo sapiens run 2,000 years is a big bad world besides like that so you want to be scientifically accurate here I need to show the the extreme margins of what's been estimated so the week's up 2 million years that the Innocence shown in the fossil record this is true of the oldest Homo sapiens fossils are 300,000 years old now but we have a solid suddenly dubling of the Human by

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and with that our language centers increase our ability to prognosticate to plan and there's no explanation for this and

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even though we may not be able to prove it I asked people to suspend their disbelief for a second don't think of this our primate ancestors are going across the Savannah the Injustice mushrooms as a clan

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massive input for anyone's eating these mushrooms huge amounts of data is coming in fractal patterns geometrical you know landscape sarkar you have empathy are you have a greater courage if I disable disable the saber-tooth tiger you know one day you have a fear of it and we know now from Nora Genesis and the extension of the fear response that has been clinically proven psilocybin allows you to reset and have different neurological Pathways to respond to fear overcoming the fear of conditioned response protest a PTSD and there's a lot of research on this currently so but this wouldn't happen one time with one hominid group what happened to X 10 X have an millions and millions and millions and millions of times over millions and millions of years this leads to what I think is called the should be called epigenetic neurogenesis we know that there was a regeneration of neurons we know that sell side substitutes the serotonin

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which of the senses you have a lot more that day. Coming in and we know that the has extinction of the fear response so if you're the leader of your clan you've had a traumatic event need a reward cataclysm from earthquakes whatever the case maybe or encounter saber tooth tiger whatever if you're the leader of a clan and you can overcome your fear response you have courage and you have empathy those are leadership skills

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I think we'd be able to take note of it people like the fall leaders who are courageous and yet kind who they can trust they'll have their best interest in mind so I think this propelled I think it's a lot is a very good explanation isn't unprovable hypothesis Junction it for the net and we're ready for the next Quantum Leap in human consciousness I think psilocybin should be looked upon as a nootropic vitamin and there's a huge amount of interest in this Johns Hopkins University's you're probably well no New York University UCLA elsewhere in Europe there is Major clinical studies have been conducted in the past two years showing exactly what I'm saying about overcoming fear response neurogenesis overcoming PTSD this is now medically quite seriously considered and something that I think that we should explore under control settings I'm not into partying with psilocybin mushrooms

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I don't so good I can understand that there's going to be here in an hour and a half and he's the creative shroomfest he's going to be very upset with your idea that you shouldn't party with it what I think there's greater benefit to yourself through yourself around and I think these are serious tools I'm sure you probably where they're it's up for legalization yeah I was really quite surprised by that person license not a published now for new species in the genus I'll also be including the most potent psilocybe Mushroom in the world cost Las Vias rustan's nature provides I don't so when I have my DEA license I mean everyone I suspect it was a DEA agent who came to get some salsa Ivan probably got set up a bunch times

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is the point was pretty funny you know that I had this one person to offer me to huge amounts of money and I played with them I said no it's not enough for me more and more money for 200 $300,000 and he's inviting all these coded letters and made their belief is it was obviously a DEA agent trying to set me up and and finally got really frustrated and so they finally came to a point and he's got really mad at me because of how much money I got money on this planet for me to ever give you a psilocybin mushrooms so give it up if you say that's not enough money could I be taking it as a negotiation well not enough money on the planet not enough money on the planet for not enough money it was not enough money before that goes I think that like if you had like a really you know Loosely interpreting

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you can expose about the criminal act so I am but it's isn't it sort of like a conspiracy to I'm not a lawyer I wouldn't have time and you have to keep things in context I wouldn't play maybe you're more of a crazed person when it comes to that stuff to me is it serious research yes it's something that unfortunately because it can't be marginalized by the party atmosphere and use the party drug is a really amazing study that just came out about 5 days ago it's a big data study 440,000

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people prisoners were surveyed over 10 years and the Department of Human and Health Services data bank and they found an amazing correlation if you had in this patient in this prisoners one experience with psilocybin in your life one experience it reduced in that population compared to the people we did not take a soul-tie mushrooms and 18% reduction in burglary and larceny and up to a 27% reduction and other crimes including violent crimes so that's the mama I check my numbers reverse is 27% reduction in burglary 18% reduction of violent crime. Think of that other damage not lie to the victims in the victims families the court system the lawyers that collateral damage people being upset because there are being finalized in prison for something you know for merely possessing The Souls of the

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that's a four to six hours experience creates a lifetime benefit to society reducing criminal activity by 18 to 27%

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this is phenomenal this is it this is something that can help the health of our of our human psyche garvar of our social system of reducing trauma throughout in our entire Society it's time for us to wake up and look at the Setai much more seasoned and intellectual function of mushrooms being a silly thing I mean I have a few pet peeves and I understand why people want to use about it but the words with all due respect I understand but you know that's not be children about this this being adults you know you're a serious person I get it I'm also not serious person tonight levels but I know when it comes to something that is so powerful that is so important it's not jeopardize its use that medically and go to benefit Society in the future by appealing to the

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common denominator adults in the room yes I agree with you to a certain extent but I also think that it's got to be incredibly frustrating for a guy like you that has the kind of information that you have bounced around your head in relationship to the way the rest of the World Views it C to a person like myself who I don't know nearly as much as you know but I know quite a bit more than the average person when it comes to psilocybin and mushrooms or no immediate need a miscarry or Terence McKenna's ideas shroomfest doesn't bother me but for a serious researcher like yourself got it like you're part of the problem right it's making it silly silly word problem by illegal drug that has no medical benefits schedule to means it's a drug that has medical benefits so there's a serious movement going on right now within the FDA to have a beer ecatepec

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because in the words of FDA resources I know one arms-length removed is that they've never seen anything with such a strong safety profile they give so much benefit at so little cost

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for such a long time

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this is at a drug and a category of its own

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this is really important it is really important but you never going to stop kids from calling at Rooms To Go see her when I was 16 to 22 24 to tell you something that's very deeply personal and it's very significant in my life

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I Had A congenital stuttering Abbott I could not speak I could not look at Joe Rogan in the eye right now without

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you know I had like The King's Speech ever seen the movie exactly like that but worse in my case I went through 6 years of speech therapy I was interviewed for special education I grew up in a small town called Columbiana Ohio and I could not speak no more the type of stuttering how about that I have and had I don't stutter to animals at pet snapping turtles and I'll talk to him all the time and I don't stutter when I sent but I could not elocute without stuttering constantly and please people out there don't finish the stutterer sentence the type of study were category that I have been in is that we would try to trick your brain with a preposition or adverb yo phrase halfway to the sentence that we're stuck on because we're taking three or four sentences ahead and then we can do is Trick the brain so I had to come up with a new neurological Pathway to trick my brain so I could get out of my stuttering Rhythm that was just repetition I couldn't get out of

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and then one day I before I deliver had psilocybin mushrooms I bought some a bag of them and I thought I got I had no information I just bought the bag for about 25 bucks and I want out for a walk in the woods in Ohio and there was a beautiful oak tree that I used to climb the top of the very top of the tallest hill in Ohio. Mountains with his and is in the summer time in so I thought send settings important I knew that so I went for a walk and I ate the bag the whole back was walking how many ounces is well it was about I know it was about a half an ounce to announce so I may be so we're talking this is this is this is the elevator ride be on the 10th floor and I was so that is probably on their what about 20 grams

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so but I didn't know not no wonder so but I knew that I wanted this I want to get my destination was this tree run so I walked and walked and I came with the tree and I was eating the mushrooms and then I started feeling the effects and so is great cuz I was climbing the tree and I was going to hire in the tree and Tire in my brain the top of the tree and is beautiful landscape but it was there was a summer time is a boiling black clouds on the horizon I go off at school and I saw this big summer storm was coming and I'll go to the clouds word dark and boiling and and they're coming close I can hear the thunder in the end and then I'm going to higher and higher the winds pick up in the tree started moving I start getting vertigo because I was like oh my God I'm getting so hot and so I grabbed the tree and how long the tree and it became my taxes Monday into the Earth

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and then the lightning started coming closer and then lightning strikes are not real close and you weren't hitting and I love this multi-dimensional geometrical patterns everywhere and the Sparks of lightning would just create his amazing Crescendo of secondary tertiary plenty of fractals all around man is amazing that this is what I read about it on so storm and lightning strikes are all around me and I was up there and I feel I felt in touch with Gaia the universe to my heart open up I felt one with all I was like oh my gosh this is such a powerful spiritual Springs I had no idea no matter what anyone is it cannot describe the experience and then I don don they wait a second stamets you're on the tallest tree on the tallest hill from miles in the middle of a lightning storm this is not the best place to be and so I realize

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I can be killed up here something out of reality rush like you know you could turn into a god imagine like a comic book high on 20 grams of mushrooms how to get a treat a lightning comes it hits you and maybe you were the Savior maybe need to get back to that tree maybe in the chosen one in credibly spiritual I want to experience but I also had the fear when is comes comes with a the hero's journey you know you always have the dark side he always have not just the Light Side than is counterbalance the dark side then I realized on my gosh I'm going to I could die up here in this is why I don't wear your issues get something out of this experience I said the starring have is ridiculous and I I'm not stupid and I saw I said to myself stop stuttering now stop stuttering now

► 00:44:32

I said that dozens hundreds of times over and over and over for the storms went past held on to the tree and soaking wet I came out of the tree and walk back to where I was living in the next day I got up I didn't see anybody and I was walking on a sidewalk and there's a lady that I really liked a lot but she was always attracted to the super selfish or jocks and things like that she was actually very kind and sweet but I didn't want to stir at her in that ice because I would stutter and it's humiliating for us so the more humiliating a stutterers feel the more we stutter so it's a really slippery slope and so I would avoid eye contact and so for the first time she walk towards the music good morning Paul how are you she was always so nice to me and I was terrified because I'm embarrassed myself and I looked her straight in the eyes I said I'm doing fine how are you

► 00:45:32

stop stuttering in one day and this speaks to now what was been medically proven is that we can reset the Neurology of the human brain through neurogenesis I believe that experience allowed me to map new there a logical Pathways that allows me to elocute no way that I could not like you before now just to be truthful here if I drink I'm in a loud bar because I stutter is your martial artist I've been a martial artist all my life and we have peripheral Consciousness so if someone comes through a door into the bar and I'm looking at you I know that there comes through so it is hyper alertness that has martial artists have of knowing things in the circumference around us in the peripheral it's just so if I drink a lot and has a loud noise and a lot of people coming in Outdoors I'm hypersensitive to Intruders and then that's what I'll start stuttering after a person's talk

► 00:46:32

me asking me how do you grow mushrooms like filling a well with a teaspoon cuz I'm worried about the guy who just came through the door over there looks like he may not be safe person to be in this environment right now so you only could give 10% of my brain to communicating to the person in front of me is hyper aware of in the circumstantial environment around me time for another trip to the tree to cure that last 10% but that's my personal story that's amazing but not in the morning for everyone but it would work for you that's what's important and a waiter came up to me and you goes in about 17 18 years of age a busboy actually and my wife and I to my wife looked at me and I looked looked at her and I said should I say yeah go ahead so I told I told the same story conservative family

► 00:47:32

eyes wide open because when you meet other stutterers you talk to them they're really desperate for a solution so I never knew what happened to this young busboy but I think I changed his life forever I hope you did so I had a good friend growing up in his brother was severely stricken with it to the point where he would have to win closes eyes and look down and it would talk to you in the he just couldn't get over it it was first to animals stutter when he sings so what do you think it is like what is what is happening like do you wash clothes with neuropathy I was told by one a psychiatrist who is a specialist in this at a conference that there is a theory that in the 7th or 8th month in the you or your neurons I failed to make all the connections to the needed to Jump Around

► 00:48:32

the drawer I bet you all the time in but I need to speak to increasing intelligence and we all will suffer from some form of dementia and neuropathy occurs there is a really wonderful safe and legal mushroom to use that at least an hour of Genesis and that's called lion's mane and lion's mane is a cascading white icicle edible Choice mushroom they sell in the stores that stores is called pom pom Blanc it look like pom poms cheerleaders and lion's mane contains a unique group of compounds of a nervous and ions and these regenerate myelin on the axons of nerves and so this time I discovered this in 1994 Japanese researcher and he postulated as a potential preventive or

► 00:49:32

treatment for Alzheimer's muscular dystrophy Etc but I take it everyday everyday yeah we have we have an extensive product line you do how do you get to that house defense.com hostdefense.com why host defense that's part of your immunity support but we are many businesses that funjet.com and I mentioned that many myself I'm kind of proud of that cost me twenty-five bucks 1994 roster of the ball so winterize yourself but lion's mane is a safe mushroom to consume there are several clinical studies out on a treating mild cognitive dysfunction but there's two mouse studies that I think are quite a lost her tooth and this is translational medicine this translates from ice experiments to humans we already knows that

► 00:50:32

has aspects of Nora Genesis when you go into Alzheimer a state of Alzheimer's was the big complex but one of the characteristics as the formation of amyloid plaques demyelination of the neurons Milan transmission of neural signals demyelination occurs the outer sheath on neurons is is interrupted by amyloid plaques that then prevent neurotransmission interesting was one experiment was the The Maze experiment with a mice were put into an arena and they went out a corridor and they they went one way to the court or they'd find food the other way is no food will very quickly learned to find food they injected the timer. Toxic a polypeptide that induces amyloid plaque formation that is a neurotoxin very quickly after or two weeks or so the mice to develop neuropathy

► 00:51:32

they got confused it couldn't remember which way to go get randomized one giving these mice again mushrooms for a few weeks they nearly normalized on sacrificing the mice in the first part of the experiment it's all the envelope Lex and then demyelination the second part of the experiment course I had resolved this post mortem you say you're basically a sacrifice them you determine the out that's what percent of the population now the remaining populations that's live they found in the mushrooms and they found that they regained neurological function wow the other is experiment which I find is even more fun is this is done Japan they put it like a hundred mice in the arena and they put a toy and then the middle of the cage

► 00:52:32

come up and sniffed it smelled it and I got really excited and they sat there with with counters are points of contact how many points of contact a mice have exploring a new toy it's like a really good bass line hundreds of data points and then do the same thing then they introduce this cyclic peptide just neurotoxin and the mice then after a while or uninterested then have an imagination no curiosity there put a new toy they were disinterested they did the same thing now even a full-blown dementia-like symptoms gave him lion's mane mushrooms and after a few weeks they put in a new toy they came back to near-normal levels been sacrificing to my house they found that day and what flakka resolved and Milan had regenerated and neurogenesis that occurred this is a smart mushroom now the tragedy that we face I leave as a society is we have people like yourself people like me we're all going to suffer through neuropathy we have a lifetime of a body intellect of knowledge that we're going to start

► 00:53:32

what is a lost of society of our elders forgetting not remembering so I think this is something that's really extraordinary exciting it's not patentable this is the drug companies have no interest in this but this is probably the number one thing that people can do in my mind to prison to pranali preserve cognitive function but to expand it. I personally would love to see it legal to stock them both together stocking psilocybin with lion's mane and I think that's talking thing and then combining it with vitamin D3 Now by suggests vitamin D3 niacin because those of you who've had a niacin flush your 200 mg of niacin or more you get ready to get itchy and neuropathy typically is presented at the fingertips at the end of your toes in your fingers and your peripheral nervous system as you have neuropathy the nerve endings begin the dive backwards

► 00:54:31

so my idea here is because they're different receptor thing activated by Soul syban then where they are nations from lion's mane is you stocked lion's mane with psilocybin mushrooms with the advantages of this is hypothetical for the something I think it's well worth testing is a niacin going to help Drive the neurogenic benefits of psilocybin and Aaron a scenes to the end of the peripheral nervous system so we actually have planning right now clinical study in Oregon with lion's mane mushrooms the Physicians who looked at the research which is robust are convinced that it adds worthy and they have their own funding so I'm we're going to do a van has 30 studying as what we have to do 30 patients and we have to be in that study in the next year it was on the see how that would affect people with CTE people like football players boxers with people with brain damage across the board

► 00:55:32

when you're depressed you're not creative and your sister in your immune system is depressed as well you're psychologically emotionally depressed and you're not as creative when you are happy you are creative and your immune system is better so this could be fundamental to disease mitigation across-the-board so this isn't some of the this is there so many different examples like this where mushrooms need to be a match the front stage of consideration / serious scientist and give up your Michael phobia or even your aunt by call Silo phobia irrational fear of psilocybin mushrooms and look up on these new eyes and you drop your prejudices and just look at it as a serious scientific analysis

► 00:56:17

wow how is this received like in the general scientific Community is their skepticism do some people are you can never convince them bit of a scientist when they see the data sets and they see there was a dozen or more Publications scientist without commercial interest have done this Independent by then it's been taking very seriously settle medical community right now and I speak medical conferences tedmed American Academy of Dermatology of the keynote speakers at many medical conferences in and it's great because I can take people who are totally skeptical and most of them walk out of that rum convincing why shouldn't we think that fungi are sources of medicines and a penicillin may have tipped world war in our favor

► 00:57:15

so well did job the Japanese and Germans did not have Palace penicillin is Alexander Fleming discovered in 1928 and 1941 labtech researcher went to a market in Chicago found a moldy cantaloupe and Alexander Fleming strain of penicillin was too weak it could be commercialized this this lady researcher who found this moldy cantaloupe found a penicillium strain that was 200 times more potent and as a result of that in war the most of the casualties were die from infections and so the British and English the English and the Americans had penicillin the Germans and Japanese did not and so it is a great NPR analysis on this on the history of penicillin and it is one of the major factors and helping tilt the balance in the favor

► 00:58:15

of the Allied Powers against the Axis powers so concerned with the researchers in England they impregnated their clothes with spores of this mold strain so if her Laboratories were bombed or they were captured if one of them escaped they could regenerate the culture from their clothing

► 00:58:35

wow this speaks their pants / Mia microbiomes a fun by the fact that you and I are here together means that I have now an ocular to do with my microbiome a selected funds ISO Joe you are now is actor low awesome congratulations aspects of what what is the word that use fungi phobia that was used by kofo be like a phobia the frustrating aspects are first ball probation right the sweeping psychedelic The Act of 1970 that made psilocybin mushrooms illegal right and and then on top of it the

► 00:59:18

commercial pharmaceutical industry which doesn't want to have anything to do with anything that it can't patent and has so many doctors and so many researchers in its pocket so you two issues that right you have one issue that people which is obviously why you don't like the word shroom people think of mushrooms as a party drug of like being silly having a freaking out doing something stupid regrettable actions and then afterwards going while we got so crazy for thinking of it is a frivolous sort of the thing that you and engagement whereas what you're trying to do is show that the absolute hard-science do you feel that this absolute hard science is

► 01:00:03

I mean you must feel that it's unfairly inhibited and hindered by all the sudden change

► 01:00:14

Department of ecology of the use of psilocybin and Ennis utility as a therapeutic agent is it is a title changed I think now there's a over seven hundred patients have gone through Johns Hopkins clinical trials for things like end-of-life and depression PTSD study is out on treating alcoholics and drug addicts sew-in in this is important to communicate to people and John Hopkins study of a different doctor Roland Griffiths great great scientist he's been running in camping these studies came up with a very interesting series of analyses and some of the take-home points were only 70% of the people

► 01:01:02

describe the solheim experience therapeutically under control settings at John Hopkins with a very high dose of cells I'm as being beneficial only 70%. Write in the retrospective study in 14 months or two years later

► 01:01:19

is 70% of people said it was a beneficial experience still described it as I won the most significant beneficial experiences as prisoners out their lifetime and you never even their friends for spouses they saw a permanent residual effect from the benefits of the experience that were nicer people they're not there are nice pic along or less prone to anger they had too many of our values that we would cherish as it improve community of individuals the 30 depends on the people who had a native experience the negativity so they didn't have collateral damage where we had collateral benefit so the positive people saw it as a positive experience and the memory of the experience this is so cool the memory of the experience

► 01:02:08

kept them optimistic hopeful and they felt benefits them just remembering experience if you are the native experience they just mushrooms obviously are not for everyone but for the people who do the voodoo benefit they benefit substantially don't you feel that a lot of the people that have those negative experiences at least from my understanding a lot of it are people that have some serious issues that they're not dealing with an ego problems in the mushrooms expose that and they try to wrestle the mushroom I mean when you said I think that's a big issue some people are afraid of her in herself or the Egg & I we are all we can't paint the canvas black and white big spectrum of complex personality traits and what happened to somebody when they're two years old 5 years old what trauma they experienced you know it's very complex to be able to make you stay with the eye thing as a as a group

► 01:03:08

some people are on the edge may not control their innermost emotions and they're afraid of that in normal State of Consciousness so they're afraid there may lose our control Bryant yeah I've had personally some terrifying psychedelic experiences but the way I've gotten through them is just to give in just to give in and for person like myself was kind of a control freak especially when I was younger it's a hard thing to do just cuz you like maybe find out fuck this you know I'm going to know that I don't like where this is going to stop this right now going to put a halt to bring myself back to sobriety like it's impossible not going to happen so you have to figure out how to just to let go and how did just like pimple really let go and Trust the mushroom or the DMT or whatever it is Iran to take you on this ride and you'll be okay when it's over and if you can't do that that's the bad trip and I've seen a lot of people have bad trips what's it close friends have a casualty of the fact that we don't

► 01:04:08

the infrastructure tradition in our society is like first peoples are Native Americans to set up a structure of a tradition shamanic definition of set and setting down they they know how to treat these powerful medicines in the right context yes and we lack that did you know that specifically banned from beer in the Bavarian beer Act of 1516 another plants were used in Meads psychoactive mirrors and celebrated by people practicing Pagan religions in Europe in the forest and the struggle between I believe Christianity monotheism vs polytheism in nature-based religions there was a collision course and then under pressure of the church they banned the addition of these plants that could be your gateway to God

► 01:05:08

the church wanted to be in between you and God they wanted to get the tie things they wanted to meet your portal and control access to the Divine and so these mushrooms are looked upon as being specifically a threat to monotheism in Christianity so the rock band mushroom turns McKenna did one of the things that he said that he believed that as a climate change and some mushrooms you came less and less available they started preserving them and honey because you can preserve things and honey and that in preserving things in honey you also run into the possibility of fermented honey and then fermented honey becoming Mead you go into more of an alcohol culture than a psychedelic culture which is really like on the opposite end of the spectrum alcohol culture is loosened Innovations wild Behavior less thought of the consequences of your actions less introspective thinking

► 01:06:08

more chaos right and that he believes that this is probably resulting in some sort of a ship tour he believed rather for a pass it was resulted in some sort of a ship from these more communal mushroom worshipping cultures to what you saw like in the end of the Inquisition and some of them are chaotic times in history I would respectfully disagree with the second part of that analysis not what you're saying but what Terrence it would have been saying I must have been preserved in honey as a way of preventing them from rotting Emoji with me right the amount of alcohol being produced versus the dose that you would get him to be this will be so much more powerful than my misrepresenting what he was saying I don't think so I think you have it

► 01:07:08

well he had wandering thoughts and they were amazing well he also had some strange sort of a computer programmer I'll try to follow it many many times some of the lectures that he gave on that computer program that represented time-wave zero and take it with the idea was for people interested he just thought there was going to come a point of ultimate novelty and somehow another conveniently he had that point coinciding with both his birthday and the end of the Mayan calendar right now his birthday was December 21st 2012 was well I think so someone in the area at the math to conform to the convenience of his birthday so it's whatever we're all guilty of Being Human even the great ones he was one of my favorite people and terms

► 01:08:08

like listening to his recordings ever listen to psychedelic Salon amazing podcast brings you back to the stoned ape Theory want two things that his brother talked about and maybe you could elaborate on this was the impact that psilocybin has on the creation of language and he thinks that the very Pathways that you were discussing that psilocybin sort of empowers that that may very well have been how human beings started elaborating on language Aguas Italia and we know that neurogenesis occurs in in the hippocampus is the ability to speak languages in new words language in your ability to to language is increased in under of the experience that sells I'm speaking the door Genesis and exactly what we've been talking about is that basically you're you and your hippocampus as you ascend

► 01:09:08

for learning and memory and this is why the mice got better because Nora Genesis was occurring in the hippocampus it so they regain their memory and they were able to learn and so yes I think this is neurogenesis not only occurs in the hippocampus but I think they can also occur in the peripheral nervous system have an extraordinary powerful story that I would like to tell him about neurogenesis and numb it was from a good friend of mine named Bill Webb they live in Big Sur California he was a friend of Ansel Adams and Henry Miller Tropic Tropic of Capricorn men in the 60s this is a big part of the movement in the sixties and seventies and Ansel Adams is a very famous photographer and Bill Webb was a mentor to me I met him arauza on 20 years of age I was riding my butt my first books lost to be mushroom mushrooms and their allies

► 01:10:08

Axl Rose 18 bad motherfuker I went up to a place called Montana books in Seattle and I have my manuscript and I walked into the bookstore because I was told Montana books was kind of a avant-garde book publisher that and early 1970s and so I was told to go up there on time an appointment and then I go in I'm meeting with a publisher and you guys listen this is an interesting little field guide you wrote but this is not our Market you know you really need by a book representative you need an agent as you're the best agent I know by far is Bill Webb in 2 years but you know you really need to see Bill Webb and when he said those words a little bell rang and in walked Bill Webb this is freaking crazy

► 01:11:08

is in the 70s when I met him and I went down to Big Sur we trip together over the great mentoring you know father son relationship and can very tight and then bill is about 82 years of age and he calls me up princess Paul I have to tell you something that's so important and I want you to listen

► 01:11:32

so you understand why don't you have no idea how you doing well I'm not doing too well I'm losing my sight I'm losing my hearing and getting a getting old sucks so but I want to tell you something that's really important you know Greek gods of tell me to know Paul I want you to absolutely swear to me you'll tell this to other people got a bill and I made a promise what is it okay if I had this freaking hearing aid I hate it I can't hear the birds are they the waves breaking on the beach and that's a big part of the Big Sur experience live by the clipse a Big Sur well I did a 5-gram dose of the hero's journey for people with listening 5 grams is is that you're on the floor and is on his deck and it was house in any daughters that the birds and the waves and things like that

► 01:12:32

he's laying there are just like a fan is just like to have a blissful experience he's coming to reconcile his own mortality the fact he's going to die is thinking about his life and he's dreaming and that Dreamscape and he hears picnic click click click click click

► 01:12:55

he looks around and it was what's that noise shakes his ear and maybe something is it urine is click click click click click it looks around and he decided to drive me crazy where is the sound coming from if I looked over and it was ants walking on the deck by near his head he could hear their footsteps

► 01:13:18

neurogenesis Jesus Christ United Methodist what ages do mushrooms again I keep the hearing and several the clinical researchers who have DEA license or doing the clinical research this is easily measurable metric or fully you giving them the auditory stimulation to see if the auditory nerve is undergoing regenerate and so this is something I think they could be a corporate studies to see if it's true but Bill was in fata can one bill Webb spoke he had a norm is gravitas this guy was a serious intellectual so I think this is the end of one study

► 01:14:18

you know one individual but I think this is something that medical researchers you pay attention to what do you think could possibly regenerate anything that quickly though like a how could it happen so quickly during excited for our trip because it looked like nodes of crossing the interconnectedness that occurs and there's a great graphic which I did send you an advance trying this is your brain without Wilson whistle Simon and massive amount of neural connections that are occurring so I think you know they just like water choose the path of least resistance I think that neurologically if if there is a neurological pathway that can help you as a species as an individual survive should there be a saber-tooth tiger on the horizon and I think that the economy of energy in nature would reward the neurological Pathways Tarot

► 01:15:18

my most likely to lead to your survival so I think that neurogenesis across the brain occurred just like me with my stuttering leave and there was another neurological pathway button bills case when he lost his access to those mushrooms the neuropathy and I became more residents and prominent and so would it were looking at these images of Jamie to put Jamie the best what we're looking at these images and could you explain to us what these are ya this is the placebos on the left your normal representation of interconnectedness if the nose of yours so try to explain this to people most of the people are just listening rather than the okay so basically shows connections between

► 01:16:18

foods that maybe you want to order of 40 or 50 different notes of crossing the one on the right with psilocybin is literally in the hundreds and the knowledge of Crossing not only are more of them but the thickness of a lines speaks to how robust does nosa Crossing r44 carrying the neurological signals so this is pretty amazing out this also influences I think it is important for our US military coders for people who are trying to solve a very complex data sets the ability of you to have increase cognition and increased intelligence this is why I microdosing is the rage in Silicon Valley number of coders are microdosing right now for those are listening of this lyrics you just lost me convinced that says that The Standard Spa

► 01:17:18

she's because that's the one that's mostly grown and add a half a gram to a quarter gram you have Lift-Off in 5 grams is a full-blown hero's journey a lot of people would take between 2 and 4 grams does a moderately spiritual experience for Grimes being higher so microdosing is is taking a dose so low that if at most you might feel it a little bit giddy the first time you take the first day but you build up a tolerance immediately the second day so second third day would feel nothing so that's on the order would like a tenth of a gram of cubensis where people are taking this and then they're taking it repeatedly over time and code in Silicon Valley from the biggest computer

► 01:18:11

companies that we all know this is a not only a fashion but a tool that they're saying the increased ability for coming up with code soon as a competitive advantage in a capitalistic system I have a good friend is a world champion kickboxer and one of the best in the world he microdose is Dale and he's been doing it over the last like I want to say probably a year or so and he has achieved phenomenal improvements in his performance because of that he says that when he sparring it's almost like he's psychic like he knows what people going to do before they do it he said his mood is battery feels better he just feels more balanced and he'll take days off and when he takes days off and even though it's completely sober while he's microdosing cuz he's really only microdosing there's something about taking days off for everything just feels like kind of shity just doesn't feel good and he's like oh I didn't I didn't take my microdose and so he takes it again and goes right back to that that place but he feels like he's

► 01:19:11

The Matrix well at Sac State is probably good that he interrupts that because it washes those receptors clean of the sole surviving it makes it so 5 days on 2 days off now I'm not making official recommendations I'm just saying I'll do it for you my small amount of knowledge on the subject I I think that make sense that's consistent with traditional Chinese medicine is also consistent for those of us should drink coffee like myself you drink coffee for 5 days you take 2 days off that next day is a strong cup of coffee you've had in a long time because me and my friends were just coming to the next podcast after this we just got done doing sober October so no alcohol no marijuana no nothing we drink coffee but that's it and when I stop smoking marijuana the first thing that happened is my dreams became rocket charge like very bizarre like crazy Lucid strange

► 01:20:11

weird dreams not losing the sense that control them but Loose in the sense that I realized I was dreaming and I was just like having incredibly Vivid vibrant dreams and I would wake up from them and be certain that what I had done was real like I had one dream that I fell asleep on the couch and why I did fall asleep on the couch but while I was asleep I was like I'm struggling to get this blanket over me while I'm on the couch and I'm pulling it but it's stuck under the cushions I'm struggling a kind of halfway got over me and I went to sleep again well I woke up in the morning there's no blanket is no parking anywhere near me didn't exist are you had a lucid dream about covering myself with a blanket while sleeping on this couch very strange and in a very Primal dreams to like being chased by wolves and running into bears in caves and really bizarre very very vibrant colors and

► 01:21:11

Ally from what I've read marijuana does something to suppress REM sleep and that in taking time off of it your your REM sleep just gets Jack through the roof I've heard this many many times I've never seen a clinical study on it but it's a good thing you hear so many times so you have pretty good confidence that this is true we all experienced it all my friends who did it experience with are in particular probably smokes as much as I do maybe more I need to be rinsed it deeply I'm glad you mentioned lucid dreams because this is a nice segue to the greatest discovery I have made of my life and I want as all came through a lucid dream so let me let me set the stage here and talk only clapped disorder is a threat to World Wide Food by security and killing bees bees around the world are being decimated say the name of the desert again colony collapse disorder lapses order quantities Oklahoma lost 85% of his beehives

► 01:22:11

last year for the 2016-2017 the annual loss of BS Report and Maryland law 75% Nebraska by 60% I better be keeping Washington State you lost 75% of his 35,000 hives now and the Almond harvest in California is it biggest market for beekeepers who send their bees to the Almond Orchards one being can pollinate a thousand flowers in a day so every flower that the visits is annulment so it's one of the most dependent crops in the world of your food is directly dependent upon bee pollination the other 65% much of that is in directly dependent but hey Alfalfa and clover for cows all of our Dairy is dependent upon bee pollination Oliver berries

► 01:23:11

what are nuts coffee is even cannabis and other non dependent plants benefit from what called Buzz pollination because the B's then can catch by the pollen better through the air is now a thought by many of the entomologist I've been dealing with that we could have full colony collapse across the world within 10 years the cost it will be astronomical term Society prices what food will raise poverty will increase you can make the argument that increase property leads to terrorism because people are poor they're desperate and so comedy clubs now is much worse than most people realize because all the wild bees are not been infected so 80% of pollination Services come from wild beasts and 20% comes from manage honey bees TV from Europe during the 1700's and 1984 the varroa Mite was introduced

► 01:24:11

United States in the varroa Mite has is like a is a parasite on the backs of bees and injection viruses in particular deformed Wing virus the lake Sinai virus and a black queen cell virus the deformed Wing virus is the really the most important one bees used to go and they will live 30 days but now they used to go pollinating for 9 days so they leave The Hive and a pony for about 9 days I've been back pain and that's their service to The Hive and they died off now the average time for all nations only 4 days then forged to fight the might step in using a toxic insecticide to call dammit Rouse Emma tries fights his license for fighting chicks on cattle at using cattle strength doses an amitron off label beekeepers been drenching or Heisler amitraz twice for a year now that might have build up tolerance and now they're up there at nine times a year they're soaked in the highs in order to kill the mites the mites

► 01:25:11

Japanese viruses this is all hands on deck this is the proverbial Bush it's going to hit the fan on this it is an extremely important and interesting lesson number one Bridge issue between liberals and conservatives that when you're at Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas or Hanukkah if you want to avoid talking about Trump and politics on Hillary Benghazi or whatever that's subject to talk about bees everyone's on board on protecting the bees so I had a waking dream of 1st 1984 I had to beehives I planted the mushrooms in my garden call The Garden Giant and one time this summer I came out the water my mushrooms and it was covered with bees and the bees move the wood chips aside and I could see this shipping Am Lord and I kept a journal on for 40 days from dawn to dusk continues Convoy to my mushroom bed edible mushroom

► 01:26:11

and I made notable I published it and then harrismith magazine 1988 I put it in one of my books 1994 and then I forgot about it

► 01:26:19

so I got involved with the u.s. bioshield by defense program director after 9/11 you can Google my name is stanless and smallpox does a better press release in the US government that we we did two thousand two hundred plus analyses of our mushroom extracts and we found extracts that are highly active against flu viruses against unclean bird flew against herpes and I guess poxviruses including smallpox so I have a patent issued on this is a great secondary storage Blackhawk helicopters laboratory all this other stuff so I had this research on the anti-viral properties of mushrooms to my son Liam and then I heard about the the bees and I raise bees and then a friend of mine Louis forsberg we're doing a movie called fantastic fun jobs that make him for 10 years

► 01:27:19

Louis came to me and said Paul I have eight Pat and Son Funjet I can control termites ants mosquitoes you can Google right now stamets can take down Monsanto there's probably a thousand websites because my patents are destructive hands so I can very much control termites and ants from consuming your house for about $0.20 and and I met with all the big companies but in absolutely do about my research on that guy spoken on this before and he's up all the lights are killing the bees can't you do something to help the mites and so okay that's two stories we have this bioshield by defense story in my antivirus stuff we had me going the mushrooms in the garden before us a lot and the way I orienteer is one of the few skill sets I have I'd like to just getting off Trail and I'm the South Fork of the HOH River and I'm deep in the old growth forest corner of

► 01:28:19

bear strike the bear came up huge pasta I told my wife

► 01:28:30

the Washington State the school system is dependent upon funding from selling Timber to the lumber lumber companies so the school system depend upon Timber Harvest off of public lands so in humans great wisdom they decided that the Bears jeopardizing the educational funds somewhere in the state so they hired Hunters to kill all the Bears so my neighbor killed 400 Bears that's why we have a salmon run right now on Skookum Inlet and kombucha Point Washington there's no bears around because they are the Bears a threat to the economic stability this supposed to do yours and see if is polypore mushroom is growing their these are woodcocks similar to the one my hat is made from so we came back two years later and sure enough this would conk was growing out of the tree to tree a diet so they kind of got a right

► 01:29:30

so when bears scratch trees resin comes out and bees are attracted to the propolis to make propolis from the residence to Pastor highs for cracks prevent Invaders coming into a beehive these are all seemingly disparate stories and this is why it's waking dream put it all together so I have my garden Giant and in a bed with the bees are coming to I have the Bible say about defense program where I found these extracts for highly effective against viruses scratch trees introduce polypore mushrooms and then my friend Louie schwartzberg assigning you know how can you help the bees so and I highly recommend this to everybody listening is these lucid dream state at that State when you're fully sleep and you just go into The Ether of wakefulness

► 01:30:17

stay there

► 01:30:19

reside there we have Random Access Memory before you get your neurological Pathways all set up by habit of what you're going to do just exist in that space and then I had synopsis activate a new neurological pathway I had an epiphany I think I know how to save the bees fast forward now I have multiple Titans issuing all over the world we done research work Western State University we've gathered for 2.5 million dollars you can go to WSU www.usa800.net edu for education and you'll see the resources we have their we are now I have found that the extra of Amadou the one I have is made from

► 01:31:11

doubles the lifespans of bees and reduces the deformed Wing virus by more than a thousand fold in 10 days

► 01:31:20

Joe the friggin homerun I'm not an entomologist I'm not I have to be hives I'm not in a big beekeeper but I put these thoughts together that if these mushroom extract reduce viruses that harm humans pigs and birds what would they do wood bees now we all grew up with Winnie the Pooh so my US Patent issued this past year and now it's issues in Australia United States issuing an European or Asian Canada I plan to open source it for the rest of the world but I was waiting on pins and needles because of the abuse for Andreas based on several criteria so if you invented the bicycle the wheel of the tricycle that's not patentable that's pretty obvious because it's logical so you want something is no no evidence in the literature be public or private or scientific are popular

► 01:32:20

you wanted the contrary to Conventional and conventional wisdom which means that you want experts to teach away if your invention so every time someone out there and tells me that the Tells I hear that Paul stamets this is full of crap nothing he says is true I have one great response I say thank you you're helping my potability because the more experts at each away from my invention the more unconventional my invention is hence the more paddleboard is the third private area is usefulness Benjamin Franklin invented invented the iPhone there's no use for listen to self cell towers is it becomes open source IDs to incentivize inventors that's why you have the iPhone to Droid Rodger computers you know one person call me on my cell phones and how dare you patent this I go how dare you speak to me on a cell phone that was nabal buy a patent so you could tell me that I shouldn't cuz I was like it's the contradictions are so Pattinson

► 01:33:20

dude and there was no prior art even though we all broke the Winnie the Pooh we knew that bears when is a rotten trees to find honey and beehives no one apparently to kill me made the connection that bees are attracted to the mycelium and waterlogged is it even logical benefit I'll just go back in time but this is a very big picture of concept here twelve thousand years ago what do we do we start to Deforest when we started coming down the trees we begin to dismantle the immunological mycelial Nets of Nick nature mycelium needs wood to decompose you take away the wood there's my sling does not have a habitat because the mycelium is produced as antiviral compounds rotting the would the bees were attracted and because of deforestation now we're stressing the bees so there's not only the lack of habitat deforestation does now in the initiative noids Berenson syngenta that produces new next size or no

► 01:34:20

play toxic insecticide sponsored research in Europe because they didn't believe that neonicotinoids harm the bees will there be researched the researchers then finally published when they got the results I was contrary to the interests of syngenta and and bear exactly is harm the second and third Generations now me and Nick are not banned in Europe they are not banned in the United States owe you have drift on their Jason Fields so you have loss of would deforestation detoxifying skull the cytochrome p450 pathway that we all have it breaking down toxins so there's a Confluence of multiple stressors but the nail in the coffin by far as a deformed Wing virus and we have found that he extracts of this one drop per thousand drops 1 ml in a liter and reduce the viruses and bees by more than a thousand fold and double the lifespan so it's a freaking home run

► 01:35:20

because it protects food by a security around the world as a time that food ecosystems are collapsing but think of the bigger picture here and agriculture we began to dismantle the immunological networks of nature the mycelium this resident the fact of the same mushrooms reduce viruses and bees pics

► 01:35:43

Birds people speaks to me of a bigger concept that the mycelium is part of the immunity of the ecosystem and as we lose the debris fields that they mycelium depends upon would begin to dismantle the immunological health of our environment and zoonotic diseases season is coming from factory farms from pigs or chicken farms and we want extraordinaire experiment and this speaks to the the Blackhawk helicopter the story is that I was working with the Bible say about defense program directly after 9/11 they contacted me because I wrote an article that was a one-page analysis of all the research on the anti-viral properties of mushrooms in scientific literature I wrote this article was published in a peer-reviewed journal bioterrorism became the front and center of concern of the US defense department I just saw my article

► 01:36:43

they got funded by Dick Cheney and George Bush and I have to say thank you because it's called project defense and if I live with several billion dollars and they contacted me because I knew how this large library in about 700 strains of mushrooms in our culture Library we have a company that 78 grade employees and we had this large Library so they said we want to test your library base in this article that you've written showing there are antiviral properties in some mushrooms you have a lot of them let's test your library to see if you have anti-viral properties so great so I started making extracts of mushrooms the fruit bodies the mycelium the both elements has fuzzy stuff that gives rise to mushrooms and I sent off a hundred extracts at a time all coated with alphanumeric codes so they didn't the government didn't know I was sending them

► 01:37:40

so I get the first reports come back and I'm flipping through them no activity no activity against poxviruses what is by far the concern was smallpox the biggest that that's we have no email logical defense against it after 1974 to stop demonizing give up smallpox vaccination on your arm

► 01:38:04

so I'm going through another kind of sample 78 is that high activity I look at my notebook with the codes were and was from this mushroom called a character on the girl is exclusively in the old growth forest of the Pacific Northwest the same as the longest-living Mushroom in North America is there perennial polypore it looks like a giant beehive by coincidence in Optometry so you can get a picture of Jamie and so I can work on a g a r i k o n a contact person. 1 point of contact with your steadfast apartment a physician and I called him up saying this was a wonderful because what research results I know Federal Express full dossier on the first hundred samples

► 01:38:56

you're not supposed to get those I am a photo copy and send them to you didn't think that was too funny but I was not very well organized left handed or right hand so we got these research results it's crazy that looks like a stick up a dude's but what annual because if it was attached to an upper branches fell through a while and then a tree grew is mycelium and connect it back into the mother has had the tree that grew two legs so this is like this was first described in the Greek pharmacopoeia for for for thousands of years so please get back to the store sorry for the interruption

► 01:39:56

you were my managers calls me up so she called it a helicopter for the Laboratories I don't no big deal with helicopters come and go cuz now it's really close and I said how close he goes listen to what are the numbers on the back of the helicopter to go there are no numbers of the Blackhawk helicopter oh my gosh now just because it's new in the program when because when you have an antidote to a weapon then I can be weaponized by terrorists so they didn't know who I was and I was working with a project bio-defense do you know if I was still sort of unknown entity and I filed a patent application on this and so I told my manager okay shut down the business give everybody cultures of this mushroom which was a gerakan I don't want to know who has them shut down the business everyone spread

► 01:40:56

you'll have is where in Washington state and the helicopters are flying over your lab what happens then I have right to let you know they're there I don't know what they were doing I'm in there at Treetop level right over the friggin laboratory so I had everyone going their car at Target so later on when I came back I called the people in defense department saying what the hell's going on here so how did they find out they just from your patent filing for the patent I filed a patent and it disappeared most patent applications when you file them to show up on the US Patent home page within a year or two

► 01:41:47

rui Paula Patton in for 5 years later it still had not been published so I get a hold of my patent attorney who gets a hold of patent office and US Department of Defense considered to be an act of national security so they quarantine my patent took it out of the patent office and they so it cannot be seen by potential terrorists because then I could have answered the smallpox so I had to do it in our government governmental agency traced to recall the patent from. To be released cuz I was in that room and saw the pot and then was put back of the patent application q and it was approved in 2013 I found in 2004

► 01:42:33

so we have now done work at the University of Mississippi School of Pharmacy with Chrysler to novel anti smallpox molecules we also have done work at the tuberculosis Research Institute with dr. Scott franzblau and University Illinois Chicago we've identified a new anti-tuberculosis molecule in Greek culture was used for treating consumption later thought to be known as tuberculosis we found that extracts of this mushroom are duly active against bacteria and viruses most people who die from viral pneumonia actually die from bacterial pneumonia they get a viral infection they owe their immune system over amps and some response to flood lungs get flooded with liquid bacteria set up a bacterial pneumonia usually kills people who actually get a flu virus they die from bacterial pneumonia so the financial product is duly active against viruses bacteria is medically significant so he's a good argument for not for products because you have been sort of protective agents that are

► 01:43:33

living in the soup of the Sexes truck that can help help protect you so this is not allowed onto are discovering molecules act against HPV human papillomavirus 70% or more of women have HPV fits of their controversial vaccine apparently it's very dangerous I'm not sure why they don't recommend the vaccine after the age of 24

► 01:44:03

I can't wrap my mind around think they're just trying to prevent infection from sexually active kids while you're sexually active after the age of 24 so why one type of their sexually active before then but if you didn't have the infection before 24 you're still active at the age of 24 why won't they recommended vaccinations have the age of 24 maybe just a minute post 24 Zoe shine 24 they don't recommend because they think maybe you already have it I don't know the answer to that that's bizarre I've never been able to get someone to explain to me what is the expression of this is that we're saying I was in the mushrooms we found five molecules authenticated by NIH virology as being totally acted against HPV which mushrooms that I have been talking about reishi gerakan Amadou are likely if we don't I can't say de facto all of them to have varying amount

► 01:45:03

please constituents are these mushroom extracts are huge Consortium of of antiviral antibacterial compounds now doesn't make sense maybe 5 million species of Funtime news about 150,000 species of mushrooms we would have been if I'd around 14,000 so just from the experiential evidence over thousands of years of human experimentation it be like you went into a library in his fourteen thousand books in your library fourteen thousand species are ancestors started selecting each of these pieces and testing them we've narrowed the field down to about 200 species of which 50 species are superstars that have no adverse effects to human ingestion that have been used for very long. Of time and within that set of 50 species we're finding these mushrooms which have tremendous potential health benefit

► 01:46:02

this is why I'm so excited in the field of mycology is we have translational science we have applied mycology and I think based on what we've discovered we can make the argument that we should save the old growth forest as a matter of National Defense are fungal essential for our future and present survival the more we eliminate these Landscapes of biodiversity the more we losing potential agents that can fight disease and so this is something that I think we can build a bridge between conservatives and liberals because Osama Bin Laden have access to an old growth forest and I we did and we do and I think this is really just indicative of many other things that we can discover if we pay attention to the vast genomic resources we have in the biodiversity of the ecosystems that are that are still intact now do you recommend for personal consumption and

► 01:47:02

particular mushrooms any particular or supplements I in turn the recommend recommendations for Gourmet mushrooms I can make those interns recommendations for medicinal mushrooms I cannot make it up in my recommendations I'm legally Tied by the FDA I cannot make recommendations can you recommend a website that perhaps would recommend well I do recommend eating Gourmet mushrooms before 4 just for us food consumed a shiitake lion's mane my talking and reishi and chaga and these all have medical benefits as well as very very medicinal the big the big stars right now by far or reishi

► 01:47:58

chaga and lion's mane Portobello they taste so good they can't be that good for you have a problem I knew it all much all mushrooms should be cooked and Portobellos in particular should be cooked at high temperatures

► 01:48:16

there is a unfortunate group of compound called Agera teams or teams are hydrazines that are heat unstable so the good news is you should cook them and if you cook them well then there's mushrooms are not a problem if you don't cook them well and then these hydrazines are potentially problematic Nature's the numbers game so there are beneficial compounds that in some balance may outweigh the negative effects of the hydrazines the Sheraton's in these mushrooms but that jury is still out what up what are the negative affect or the negative effects of this

► 01:48:57

this is an explosive area of conversation

► 01:49:04

and that puts my life in danger so I reserve the right not to answer a question

► 01:49:10

I didn't expect that you put your life in danger talking about portobello mushrooms

► 01:49:17

he's looking at me silently I will respectfully move on thank you so anybody who's interested just a guy who is the same height as Paul and he's going to have a mask on and we're going to have some sort of electric box that distorts his voice is lots of mushrooms that have a tremendous benefit compounds inside a portobello mushrooms that are very beneficial and in fact there is a positive study with some breast cancer patients a breast cancer study that button mushrooms can confer benefits so there is that if we were funded by NIH with a 2.2 million dollars for breast cancer clinical study on turkey tail mushrooms and turkey tail mushrooms are a fantastic as adjunct to Conventional therapy the clinical study that was conducted funded by

► 01:50:17

NIH and the University of Minnesota medical school and pistear Medical College showing a dose-response curve specifically and supporting the immune system by taking turkey, and the more you talk the more benefits or was I have a tedmed talk that's very popular in front of 800 Physicians where my mother who is challenge with Advanced stage 4 breast cancer is now 90 almost 23 years of age she had Advanced stage 4 breast cancer when she was 84 years of age given less than a few months to live and she had metastasize tumors all over body breast was here up thing with a very very bad carcinoma and she is alive and well and fully recovered today she had a chemotherapy using herceptin and little short time attacks all she had a very bad reaction to taxol but there's a scientific articles now then probably saying that showing up

► 01:51:17

tail mushroom constituents help conventional therapies like chemotherapy with herceptin and making it herceptin work better so there's a nice blending of Integrative Medicine wasn't using natural products with conventional medicine I will never be say that you should not consult a physician I will never say that you should not use conventional medicine you should is the state of the art of science is right there but instead of the Arts and Sciences that we can upregulate immunity with these mushrooms and that's your Frontline defense and then the other conventional therapies that are being practice now come by and very very nice late according to many Physicians and reports showing that the combination of of of of turkey tail mushrooms in combination with conventional can I have a significant indifference them to you are improving your logical defense conventional treatments are state-of-the-art and this is state

► 01:52:17

earth science when you talk about cancer you should deal with oncologist that are at The Cutting Edge but they're not state-of-the-art when it comes to the preventing of these things and that that's a giant issue that a lot of people have when it comes to nutrition lifestyle mitigating stress all of the various factors that contribute to a bunch of different Health ailments do you think that mushrooms could also play a factor in that as well and that's absolutely Japan and dr. ichikawa was the Ya-Ya epidemiologist I worked for that they National Cancer Center in Tokyo and they notice in surveying a people in Japan in the 1960s early 1970s there was a dearth a drop and the overall cancer rate and is one population in the Gano prefecture in Japan so he was sent there by the national cancer centre of Tokyo by the government

► 01:53:17

does a what are these people doing and is one cluster Villages where they have statistically significant less cancer rates were talking about 30% less than the national average and after exhaustive study he found that they were eating enoki mushrooms a lot of them because you know he mushrooms are really thin ones that really tall stems you buy me the store well the father's a big farming sensors for enoki mushrooms there and then the blemished ones is this called where it is now we don't you don't sell the Republic they're the ones that have little spots on them or deformed but they are given to the workers and so their workers and then other families are higher per-capita consumption go to mushrooms than the other residents of Japan so they found that specifically the consumption of enoki mushrooms resulted in a reduction of cancer across the board of all cancers stitches any significant I think over 220,000 people and is epidemiological survey I've written about 10 articles for The Huffington Post and you can Google stamets Huffington Post

► 01:54:17

do mushrooms and see all the citations on enoki mushrooms on lion's mane on a Garrick on all these much and I'm talking about how they're all peer-reviewed past Physicians are all very short articles about this summarize a lot of the research that I'm talking about that's amazing what what do you know about the cordyceps mushroom

► 01:54:37

I know a fair amount about cordyceps I'm fascinated for two reasons one because of a supplement but I take that my company makes called shroom Tech sport sorry for the name my apologies in advance but it it's based on athletic performance about the shroom Tech is based on the cordyceps and b12 and a bunch of different adaptogens in the idea being that when you take that it benefits athletic performance benefits of endurance and oxygen utilization and apparently they discovered this from what is a weird one cuz they grow it on a caterpillar did you know about all that has been split into several different there is a cordyceps sinensis now known as CEO cordyceps sinensis about five hundred species in it

► 01:55:37

okay to taxonomy because when researchers will go in the Himalayas and they find these caterpillars for the cordyceps mushrooms coming out of it good scientist and they did just what I would do if they were taking the laboratory did break it open and take a piece of tissue from the inside this called cloning so you just capture there's not a quitter Charlie across the culture very confusing because there is five different fun joints are called Animorphs cordyceps is a dimorphic fungus with that means there's two forms as got a mold State and it's got a mushroom State the mushroom steak comes up like a little Club looks like your finger rings little finger coming up out of the ground so you can find out gender and it is expired

► 01:56:22

I can't actually see the species there but it look like there Beatles when is there was a lot of scientific dispute on what the true animorph now has two sides of the same coin you see the cordyceps and then you clone it and you get this mole drawing and then people will grow up the mold will now we know there are several species of moles that are growing inside the caterpillar so the true kind of sub cordyceps sinensis is now identified as her Sotelo San Francis that's the true one basilio Macy's and mannerism and all these other ones are not considered to be the true organism they're chasing the other cordyceps mold inside of the mushroom I can't keep up with you so

► 01:57:22

polyculture polyculture has several different anthem of pathogenic fungi that kill insects so I made it what are you doing who's right and who's wrong and how do you get the labeling to conform to the current taxonomy based on DNA research the good news is the best of my knowledge several of these companies are selling these cordyceps the Animorphs even though they may not be the true course of sentences those also confer benefits so you could argue innocence about different species of problem with this is there's no less than a thousand pure reviewed articles on cordyceps synensys and no one or hardly anyone no one knows what speech is the rock that growing cuz if we don't know which which of these animals that were actually growing this recent information that leads

► 01:58:22

get some text is in flux because their DNA PCR amplification in the region of DNA that they chose the Amplified there are idiosyncratic two species now that story has changed for genome sequencing is really the only way to go about this with a sequence the entire genome and so there's a lot of elasticity or plasticity and and the and the expression of DNA going back over and talk about this whole interview epigenesis epigenesis is the environment stimulus has its lack of influence on the genomic expression of the individual the species yourself and so the upregulate or turn on genes that are otherwise quote-unquote asleep and so what we're seeing now is that epigenetic influences can cause different DNA expressions and so what was considered to be conformed

► 01:59:22

city of a species of DNA types before like 99% and that was the same species now we know that's so what was accurate a few years ago is considered to be highly inaccurate today to science is changing very rapidly and the regulatory environment cannot catch up so it doesn't really matter except for the following and this is I do make a recommendation here make sure your mushrooms are your whatever propstra consuming or certified organic

► 01:59:51

and please don't buy them from China

► 01:59:54

anyone who's been to China I've been to China several times the amount of mass of air pollution there is horrific and the chain of custody as we call it where these people are getting their mushrooms do they add mixed often times Distributors mix suppliers as a form of quota quota Russian Roulette we've done analysis on Chinese Source mushrooms and they've had about the 2200 parts per million of lead where two or three capsules is toxic so why would you take a medicinal mushrooms contain they would heavy metals in pesticides are trying to improve your immune system at the same time you're sabotaging your immune system so getting mushrooms from clean environments is critically important unfortunately because of our is USDA organic program they can borrow from their organic programs of China and still say there are certified organic so you really need to buy us grown certified organic mushrooms that I have a clear chain of custody and hopefully one that is from a reputable supplier or scientist not somebody was just trying to make money there's a lot of opportunistic companies right now or just undo it

► 02:00:54

Floyd and ride the bandwagon of the popularity of medicinal mushrooms without really having a done their homework or without fully and informing the public that their mushrooms are actually coming from China when they are not what is the strain of cordyceps mushroom that erupts that infects ants kills them Sprouts out of them then explodes and infects the ants near them and other ants will drag that Aunt knowing that it's infected deep deep away into the forest well the way from the unilateralis is another one but a zombie movies you've been saying they've been based on cordyceps and I was a character in Hannibal Lecter on the series I think it's number of 5 and and this L I think Elvin stamets was this anesthesiologist make that was last name

► 02:01:54

what is a Star Trek iMac Air Show start this evil Doctor Who overdoses his patients with with drugs and then put them in the backyard and then unlock play some mushrooms just like cordyceps Seven Star Trek people called me up in August of 2016 I'm talking to CBS to know 7 have to talk to you this on my TED Talk and and they said Paul were the writers of the new Star Trek Discovery series we're kind of stuck you know we want to talk to you with all your tedtalk we're really interested not go away sign are you the one who put me in Hannibal Lecter goes yeah so I said okay so foolishly for may be to my benefit foolishly I said turn on your tape recorder

► 02:02:50

can you give me the general idea and let me run with it and they said okay go for the six of them I guess my conference call

► 02:02:58

foolishly I said I'm a Star Trek fan was not foolish but I want no money for these ideas I give you all my intellectual property I want science fiction to predict science fact the great thing about Star Trek is a flip phone and iPad just came out and start truck and nobody can reality I said so you have a unique opportunity year of forming our future let's collaborate to create a future that's better for our future Generations by inspiring students and young people to get excited about the science so they can help populate the university to grab the inventions that can help save this SNL Jeopardy and so I ran with the Star Trek theme and we just saw the last episode last night and after Mycologist Paul stamets is a using the mycelium Spore drive it is become I couldn't believe it we're watching this thing in the in the Star Trek the main theme of Star Trek is based on mycelium and the concepts that I gave them they've elaborated this

► 02:03:58

this is that some sort of a propulsion system where the computer internet we have a neurological Network in our brains and the organization of a dark-matter conforms to string theory so these are three of the same dimensional structures stacked on top of each other and nature builds upon his prior successes so networks reward us themselves by surviving and it was kind of Raffia so I said and I am still Bound by confidentiality and there's an incredibly strict confidentiality agreement that I can only state which has been publicly displayed but does mycelium Spore Drive house do the internet's of nature he might say to be able to go into hyperspace immediately by tapping into the mycelial archetype and so after my call just stamets now

► 02:04:58

is plugging himself into the mycelial network of the universe and they can jump rather than using their standard hyperdrives which you seem streaming across four hours when one part of the University other than I show up immediately and then and then disappear is this something that you think could actually be real one day I asked but if you look at the Multiverse and I've had a egg I've had one or two in particular Multiverse experiences time and reality has changed in a way that I cannot explain is so so what do you mean

► 02:05:41

it's so incredibly profound that I still cannot wrap my mind around it and psilocybin experience experience so I think this experience might be a portal to not going to sound like Terence McKenna event during into to the Multiverse the idea that time can be bent that there are multiple universes is occurring simultaneously in different realities and I've had one experience in particular that is just unfathomable to me I don't know how to explain it is a shot

► 02:06:18

okay I'll give it a shot for a blow my mind is going to have to The Evergreen State College I had to Drug Enforcement Administration license my brother John went to Yale University he got a graduate scholarship and neurophysiology the University of Washington he came out to Washington State and Seattle I was living in Olympia Washington I had a cabin up in the mountains near Darrington Washington then the summer time for three years I sat chokers I was a logger I really believe the School of Hard Knocks and a blending of Academia with with blue collar hard work I love chopping wood I love running a chainsaw I love hard labor I think because my mind some respite to be able to think so I'm in this highly academic environment my brother John has he died unfortunately two years ago

► 02:07:18

you got me involved in mushrooms as I'm going to Subway and set the stage for but I need another 2 minutes to set the stage here so I'm going up in a small town in Ohio Co Columbiana my brother John goes to his going to jail he comes back one when day and it gives me a book that he usually First Class Pizza on break and he says I never really X faster. John went to Mexico Columbia came back with a great story eating psilocybin mushrooms and it's my older brother I just idolized him and his book called Altered States Of Consciousness and tell her I said John can I borrow your book he said sure

► 02:07:52

isabody it back now for my break is over I'm going back to college at this point of a text so I borrowed his book all the states of Consciousness time just facts daily reading it you know about all these different ways of expanding my best friend Brian Snyder says we're hanging together all the time a day 7 days past week pass you know two weeks past my brothers are coming back on break I go to Ryan and Ryan cuz I can't give it to you Paul I said why does my dad burned it I see your Dad burned my brother's book I go WTF I don't use those fries back then I said oh my God and I have a shout-out to Ryan Snyder's father that because of that

► 02:08:52

then it's stimulated my interest in all the states of Consciousness is even more so that is so John goes to jail and go to the University of Washington I have the Evergreen State College John calls me about Isis Paul I think I found some soulside mushrooms and Columbia complicated up here is John does it have a separable gelatinous pellicle because what's that Frank the cap these are growing on wood chips in separate the cat very slowly do you see you a little skin does translucent name breaks it goes yeah I see the skin on the ground in wood chips Nico's yes turning bluish

► 02:09:52

how many did you find he goes you would not believe it is a huge amount I said wait I said Paul there are very sensitive place you better come up here right away so I jumped in my car and I drove up from Olympia to Seattle about 60 and 70 my house and you know. Let's get on our bikes and let's go down there and I was the end of boats to the University of Washington off of University Avenue and there's boat Street and we get there I'm right across the street is a police substation Interruption of the 10,000 30,000 mushrooms I don't know is about 50 ft by 30 ft but they all been mulch or wood chips there's an option that picked up you know trash and debris to pick up six

► 02:10:52

solid mushrooms are mushrooms everywhere I've never seen one concentrated so we waited till the police cars went away and we're kind of idling there other than the police cars will go away from the substation and we thought about ratoon and then the other students are all hanging out at the bus stop right we're not really waiting for the bus right right for the police cars to go away but and then we pick up is R E news Pizza call Schlotzsky's 20 I'm named after the mushroom that no one knew existed before or has been

► 02:11:52

of the type collection that anchor the species taxonomically so I think some of the specimens still exist in herbaria around the world because it's the reference standard so we go back to the house and it's like we got to try them

► 02:12:08

so we lay out these papers and the whole the whole newspapers were just covered with mushrooms and until that night and the guys from Yale all neurophysiology all scientists a non-scientist track and see if two events is so we make smoothies and oh my gosh. The gag reflex so I we got to make this way that you had to eat 50 of them in order to have them a dose equivalent equivalent to West last week events this week so I knew that so we may just incredibly distasteful milkshakes and and we chug them I will drink them and then amazing experience I bought it with my brother is beautiful on and that you're happy. You look around it's like tense about offer science to bed

► 02:13:08

and I'm and I'm laying in bed and you know full-blown experiencing a table can barely sleep because it's all the colors are keeping me awake and my mind is racing and I have a lucid dream

► 02:13:22

and I'm dreaming and I wake up and I go downstairs I go by this crazy dream I was in The Witcher dream I said I saw thousands of cattle dad baking in the Sun

► 02:13:37

I said I think is going to be a nuclear war, what could kill all these, you know there's a time of the Reagan Administration and and and all that is any of the attention was really high between the Soviet Union and the United States and they said that they were joking with me saying all well okay then what is going to happen I go I know I was in Olympia I needed the rushup to Darrington to stay in my cabin because my books were up there my manager comes up that I need to save save my research

► 02:14:06

so they will not go well it's not this weekend love like in two days it's next weekend so there go to the calendar December 1st I put in my book and I guess 1975 the end of the world that wrote Paul predicts the end of the world

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so we forgot about

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massive rains the next week huge amounts of snowfall

► 02:14:33

and then on Wednesday Thursday temperature inversion and it flipped to 75 to 85 Degrees all the snow started to melt all the rivers are flooding in my little cabin was right next to a river that was swell from not dated of a morning tonight go up six feet just from the snow mountain landscape all my research I need to get up there I need to go up there and tell me the news on news and the roads are being closed how to go through Rockport Washington the back way North to get back to my cabin I get to my cabin and the bank had it wrote it about 10 feet I was only about 10-12 feet away from the from the river now my camera is on the verge of falling into a fight at my manuscript I got my books and I rescued all the material had better get out of there

► 02:15:19

because the roads are closed and so I had to wait wait two days to days and the roads then opened up and I drove out out of the valley in to Snohomish Valley and I went around the bend and they're the sun is a brilliant sunny day a warm day and there are floating in the fields were hundreds and hundreds of dead cattle

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how do you explain that

► 02:15:47

I entered I think into the Multiverse

► 02:15:52

that was a scientist you realize when you say something like that you open yourself up to ridicule do you feel hesitant to communicate these ideas daycare I just don't care you know this is true of this happened to me and I can push the envelope on the other ideas because the credibility my research is well-established I can save the bees do you care whether I have taken so sad mushrooms if I can save your farm your family your country or the world billions of dollars and protect biosecurity I care more things I don't mind making these up the milk. I don't I don't have to I just wondered just because you can explain it does not mean it's not true and I think that we need to accept the fact the reality is not limited to the perception that we have traditionally used

► 02:16:44

that's a beautiful way to describe it looks and with that that's perfect thank you brother thank you so much I'm so glad you came here and thank you to all the people that recommended you and and turn me on to your work and we do the skin I love to please all right and if people want to research more of your stuff fungi.com and what was the other website and host defense. Compost defense.com and there's a ton of other information Ted Talk and I buy youtube.com Paul stamets site and Louie schwartzberg a shout-out we have a fantastic funjet.com check it out Lou and I are coming out with a movie that describes much of the stuff thank you so much thank you brother

► 02:17:30

how good was that shitt huh we don't do it again, God damn it was too good this episode of the podcast is brought to you by square cash download the free square cash app for iOS or Android now and pay all those fucking people back god dammit Pam back you know what you're doing and we're also brought you buy go to LY ft.com Rogan today and you can get a $500 new driver bonus that's lyft.com Rogan l y f t.com Ford Rogan limited-time-only terms apply we did it

► 02:18:17

that was an amazing podcast I was fascinating I could literally listen to him talk about fungus in mycelium for hours and hours and hours and hours and we will definitely do that again. It was fun and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did next podcast will be the the remembering the recap

► 02:18:41

I'm sober October with Tom Segura Ari shaffir and Bert motherfuking Chrysler

► 02:18:50

Bert Kreischer Ari shaffir and Tom Segura and I went on a one month no alcohol no marijuana Journey with a mandatory 1590 minute hot yoga class

► 02:19:04

per month for the entire month and we talked about on the next podcast so I hope you guys enjoy that see you soon bye bye