#844 - Andreas Antonopoulos

Sep 7, 2016

Andreas Antonopoulos is a bitcoin entrepreneur, he also serves on the advisory boards of several bitcoin startups and serves as the Chief Security Officer of Blockchain. Links to "The Internet of Money": Paperback - https://www.amazon.com/Internet-Money-Andreas-M-Antonopoulos/dp/1537000454 Kindle - https://www.amazon.com/Internet-Money-collection-Andreas-Antonopoulos-ebook/dp/B01L9WM0H8/ Give-away (No purchase necessary) (5)Paperbacks - https://giveaway.amazon.com/p/e9a610a7c83ddeff?ref_=pe_1771210_134854370#ln-fo (5)Kindle copies - https://giveaway.amazon.com/p/8ac158adbe11d197?ref_=pe_1771210_134854370#ln-fo

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hey everybody how you doing huh before I do my wonderful ads that I know you look forward to so much on September 30th I'm going to be in Columbus Ohio with the great Tony Hinchcliffe oh Tony's from Ohio so a lot of those Ohio dorks would be out there to support them know what I looked right at Jamie when I said Ohio dorks people from Ohio love from being from Ohio just kidding folks

I love Ohio and I film the special in Ohio you can't relax then probably one of my best ones definitely one of my best ones talking monkeys in space then on October 1st the next night I'm at the Tower Theater in Philadelphia everything else after that

boo Massey Hall that's in Toronto I don't think I've don't think tickets are on sale for that yet so I can't say anything whoops already did December 9th Massey Hall Comedy Works Denver on the 18th and 19th of November I don't know if that is sold out or I don't know it's probably pretty close everything else is sold out this o December 12 October 21st my Netflix special comes out that's right bitch

over 21st on Netflix it's called triggered

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it tastes give me taste baby oh yeah it is the good shit right here my guest today is Andreas Antonopoulos he is the Bitcoin Buddha he does not like the term Bitcoin Jesus because he does not like how the story of Jesus ended he's an awesome guy he's a fascinating individual and he is one of the Premier experts on bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and I always enjoy talking to him so give it up

for Andreas Antonopoulos

The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day all you creeps that are controlling money all throughout the world your time is slowly closing in am I right yep Andreas Antonopoulos author published author of The Internet of money you've been on the show many times before but you've never been on the

show two days after a book fresh off the presses tell a story about how this book got delivered to you today because it's kind of hilarious yeah so nobody knew about this this is my announcement this is my second book first book was mastering Bitcoin was for techies the internet of money is for everybody else and it's a collection of my talks and I was having the first copy delivered to my hotel this morning in order to bring it to the show and give it to you and it was a day late it was supposed to be delivered yesterday

day and I'm waiting and I'm refreshing the tracking number site and then you said you know we can push it back by half hour because you're running a bit late and and in that half hour the book called delivered it literally was printed September 5th this is the first copy I've touched and this yours I've got it folks

issue 0 0 0 1 now why do they do that just one why don't they just make it one why does everybody have to do a one

well I'm not printing 10,000 issues so well they never go it's never like 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 do they ever do that shoes once recently with that was like one out of why you in one of my ears only what the hell's going on there I can't have you in my left ear it's like you're like the voice of good for the voice of bad oh yeah yeah I got it too so please do read yeah that's too weird we can't have that

try it again

check check nope you fucking weirdo you're coming in my left ear only probably the rest of America to right yeah they can't have that people are at the gym going what the fuck Jamie's in my left ear so this is a collection of all your talks what has changed in the world of Bitcoin since the last time we spoke we spoken we hung out in Vegas which is great I had a great time with you and but what what has changed in the world of Bitcoin since the last time well it's been about a year and a half

and so much so much happening in the meantime we had a pretty slow 2015 and 2016 picked up again 2015 still coming off slow and gradual drop in the price people were very reluctant and skeptical the media was constantly bashing Bitcoin and then at the same time we saw this really interesting phenomenon where the bank started getting interested in this thing but not bit

coin itself no the blockchain the technology behind Bitcoin which is rather amusing II look at that a bit as if you know the horse buggy Association of America is going oh we like this automobile thing you've designed but we have a very big investment in hay and horses and stables and veterinarian so we're going to use the technology behind the automobile the pneumatic tire and we're going to revolutionize horse buggies but in all fairness

I think what you're saying is hilarious but in all fairness it is a weird thing to invest in like to go all in on bitcoin I mean I know you do it but you also make all of your money this way and this is you know you're a prostitute sizing person when it comes to bitcoin right for good reason but for the average person say is saved up actual Cash Money their whole life and is involved in this established system of money to throw all their money into Bitcoin

that would be insane you watch the money fluctuate it goes up and it goes down with I'm think I'm glad you said that that it would be insane no that's that would be a terrible idea right but don't you think that that's probably why the media bashes it and why banks are just looking at it going mmm like people see that there's a growing number of people that are using it for transactions there's Bitcoin ATMs now and people are using it to purchase things there's several companies that accept Bitcoin for for products for actual real physical products but yeah

but I mean it's not an investment and it shouldn't be treated as an investment I mean I don't even mean like as an investment I mean as like a primary source of Revenue money of of if you decided to take all of your money not as an investment but just say I'm going to live off a Bitcoin I'm gonna spend Bitcoin like your money is going to go up and down like yeah that's gonna be really hard especially if you're if you're accustomed to privileged banking like if you have the kind of

of banking that we have in this country if you actually have access to that and you have a nice Visa debit card and you don't pay account fees and your money doesn't get confiscated by a dictator too often and you know you can earn your money and interact with other people then why would you use Bitcoin the simple answer is that's not really the use case but there are lots of people around the world who simply don't have access to that and for them you know in many cases

Bitcoin is the stable currency you know ask an Argentinian oven as well and a Brazilian cypriot a Greek and the list goes on and on and on whether they're worried about volatility in Bitcoin and in many cases if they've heard of it if they've used it that's the stable currency their National currency is far far worse right did you say Brazil yeah Brazil has had two massive devaluation in the last year how much devaluation cuz I know that they have experienced

I'm sort of a really radical economic downturn which is really interesting because a few years ago when we first started going into Brazil their economy was booming right we I'm saying the UFC yeah they're in a currency crisis right now massive car in secret what's going on well apart from the political crisis is going on and I won't speak for that because I'm not a Brazilian but you know they've had impeachment proceedings they just impeach their president there has been a lot of economic difficulty with a country and I think their currency is devalued

thirty percent in the last year or 20 or 30% some staggering amount of currencies don't move like that mainstream National currencies that have very large economies behind them simply don't move like that we've seen it happen on the a couple of times we've seen it happening in Greece and Cyprus during the economic crisis we saw it happen in Britain during brexit and we've seen it in places like Brazil Venezuela Argentina and places like that how much currency did how much of a percentage

when you lose during brexit almost 20% in a day wow and three things responded to that in the opposite direction gold the Japanese Yen and Bitcoin heading in the exact opposite direction Bitcoin climb 20% that they almost really so did Britain rebound it did a bit but it's still in historic lows multi-decade lows so they took a really big hit and what we've seen again

again is a times of Crisis we see this pattern repeating where people use Bitcoin as a safe-haven investment to get money out of national currencies especially where there are very strict currency Capital controls so one of the reasons we've seen Bitcoin probably one of the reasons we've seen a lot of activity with Bitcoin in China is because of currency controls every times the you on the Chinese currency devalues against the dollar and it's done so I think for

R times in the last here every time there is a massive uptick in Bitcoin buying in China so people are parking the money in Bitcoin or using it to convert it to other currencies and get money out of the country so what is the biggest fluctuation that Bitcoin is at well it depends whether you look at it on a monetary basis or on a percentage basis if you look at the movements now it can go up 30 40 even a hundred bucks in a day

which seems like a lot but as a percentage the biggest fluctuations that had were in 2010 and 2011 when it Rose from under a dollar or two over $30 and then back down to under a dollar and a period of a couple of months now for people who don't understand what this means when you're when you're saying it a hundred bucks or a dollar thirty dollars like what does that in relationship to one Bitcoin one Bitcoin equals thirty dollars or did in

and 11 and what is it equal right now 617 617 dollars mmm Jesus it was about two hundred and thirty dollars at the beginning of this year so it's seen a massive ramp up and a renewal of interest that okay so massive ramp up but like what's the fluctuation so if it's at 616 is that what you said yeah it's tripled since the beginning of the year almost is it possible that it could drop to like 200 tomorrow yes see that scares the shit out of people yes and and which is why

why you know at the but here's here's a here's the truth over the seven years that it's existed the volatility as a percentage has been going down every single year so as the economy gets bigger the bigger it is the more stable it is it doesn't get buffeted around right it's just like a very large boats doesn't get pushed around by the waves Bitcoin is like a zodiac next to the US Dollars Titanic and the little zodiac

bouncing up and down on the waves a lot right hmm and it might be uncomfortable at times of course if you're heading to an iceberg you want to be in the thing that can actually turn on a dime that's a good way to look at but I don't know if it's a fair analogy but it's a good way to look it's volatile and that's part of its part of the fact that a 10 to 12 billion dollar economy stretched across the entire Globe is a small economy as a currency now in the interest of making this a standalone podcast if people are not going to go back

and listen to all the other podcast that we've done explain very briefly if you could yeah what is bitcoin and how does it work I'm glad I have this opportunity to do it again because every time we have a new audience so Bitcoin is internet money it's a system of money that exists on the internet was created on the internet and it allows you to send and receive value though the same way you can send and receive an email anywhere in the world instantaneously without intermediaries and

that's kind of what you see at first glance behind that it's a whole platform it is as the title of the book says the internet of money it is it is a set of protocols that allow you to basically exchange value with other people but you can do a lot more with it than just that most people will use it as a currency it's basically money that you can transmit from your smart phone to somebody else's smartphone directly just like cash but electronic and

and the thing about it that's unique is that it's not owned by any Corporation any bank or any government just like the web isn't owned by anyone or email Isn't owned by anyone and there's lots of companies that can send and receive email is also companies that can set up websites there's a lot of companies that can set up applications that use Bitcoin and I should say that when you set it up for me the first time you did it a bunch of people donated Bitcoin so what I did

it was I'd said whatever people donated I would match I would double it and then we would donate it to fight for the forgotten the build wells in the Congo yeah and we built I don't remember how many Justin Ren said but it was I don't even remember how much money but was many thousands of dollars people donated and then I doubled it and then we sent it over to the Congo so yeah the Bitcoin Community is very generous is my point that is true and part of that generosity

the city comes from the fact that a lot of the people in this community are very excited about this technology and want to share it with others they want to tell other people about this technology it's really quite interesting what happens when you create a form of money that is truly Global we really don't have forms of money that are truly Global if you even even with your very Advanced banking system in your access to all of the technology that you have in the American banking system if you try to send money to some

it's almost impossible to do and I experience this every time I get paid in Bitcoin I'll go into a conference in Europe and I'll do one conference with a banking industry and one conference with the Bitcoin community in the little Bitcoin conference it's going to be free to attend and I don't make any money but they sometimes cover some of my expenses and I'll send an invoice and the banking industry conference will send me a wire transfer it takes on average four

weeks for me to get it with several calls to find out where it went what's going on why did it get lost and takes me on average 15 minutes to get paid in Bitcoin no matter which country and being paid it is it is a cynic In Me Is this because when they take the money and they're transferring it they're moving it around and now it's sitting in Banks when banks have money if they have your money even if it's just for a few weeks they have the opportunity to use that money to make more money are they doing that

it certainly doesn't it doesn't hurt to keep it a bit longer they're doing it primarily because because the system has a series of intermediaries and each of those intermediaries represent a risk if one of those intermediaries says I have the money for mr. Antonov closest wire and you give that money to Antonopoulos but the intermediary doesn't give it to you you're out of money right so there's those risk with every intermediate you put in there's risk and that's called counterparty risk

the because of the way the banking system is with perhaps five six seven intermediaries in a single transfer that creates a lot of cumulative risk and they protect with that risk by slowing things down and that risk doesn't exist in Bitcoin because it's from one party directly to another no counterparties that's one of the core principles the funny thing I had this conversation with my bank and said I had done this some conference in Germany Frankfurt

at the headquarters of the bundesbank now for those of your viewers or listeners who don't know the bundesbank is the Federal Bank of Germany and they probably consider the United States Federal Reserve to be a mediocre creditor compared to the bundesbank this is like the best credit rating on the planet right and I'm going to speak at a conference there and they're paying me for my expense

has a send a wire transfer and I call my bank and after four weeks they finally find it and tell me we've received your bank your bank wire transfer we're going to hold it because of the risk profile like I don't understand well you haven't been paid by this particular pair before so we're going to put a hold on it so you do know this is the bundesbank right you are holding and they held it for two weeks you are holding for two weeks because of

the credit risk of the Federal Bank of Germany the most credit worthy Institute I'm not trying to receive money from Somalia you know this isn't even something weird and if if even they can't pay me in the age of the internet instantaneously there is something wrong with this banking system and there is because I got paid for the Bitcoin conference I was doing in the same town instantaneously but there's also

so concerned on their their end about fraud right I mean isn't it but there's fraud with Bitcoin as well I mean wasn't there that issue with those guys that were investigating the dark web it turned out that the agents were stealing Bitcoin to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars wasn't that the case with yes absolutely so the difference the difference is a difference between systemic fraud and individual cases of fraud so

in Bitcoin as in the traditional banking system if a bank or an organization concentrates a lot of money then you can go in and steal it you basically robbed the Bitcoin Bank just like people Rob the normal bank and how would they do that just hack into it so now another yep they hack in and they do it and this has happened many many times and this is a problem with Bitcoin Banks as opposed to person-to-person exchanges correct because the whole point of Bitcoin is that you don't need to put your money in the custody of someone else

right and if instead you use Bitcoin as it is intended where everybody keeps control of their own money then in order to hack all of those people either have to hack the Bitcoin protocol itself has not happened in seven years and the way it's structured is impossible to do or you have to hack each individual account holder and you can hack individual account holders depending on their level of security and sophistication but you know to get

very large amounts you have to wait for them to give their money to someone else what was that exchange the Bitcoin bank that started off as like a fantasy website and some what was that again this was mt.gox yeah in Japan the magic the Gathering online which lazy in the early days of Bitcoin there were no exchanges so you've got to think back like do you remember on the web in the early days when even the the largest most sophisticated

corporations had a page with a single logo on a gray background and some flashing lights and that said under construction like in 1994 right that's where we are in Bitcoin still so there's a there were no well run exchanges at the time it was very difficult to buy and sell Bitcoin and so this guy in Japan had a site that could trade these Magic the Gathering online cards and he converted the site

to trade currencies instead to create trade cryptocurrencies turns out it's a lot easier to hack in and steal cryptocurrencies and it is this deal the cards whatever happened with that because the story was like hundreds of thousands of dollars in Bitcoins just hundreds of millions of dollars millions they didn't vanish that inventors someone stole it they got stolen they got cycle through the economy and they're back in the economy now we'll just not with the same owners know

those who no one knows who that seems bizarre like if you rob a bank like they can put a trace on the bills and they can figure it out eventually and most people get caught right yeah and not really I mean no no they if you if you do wire fraud perhaps but in many cases with cash Bitcoin is like cash it is equally untraceable it's very difficult to actually catch like I think recently I was reading about the FBI closing the DB Cooper case

this is the guy who robbed the bank got into seven one seven aircraft opened the rear staircase and jumped out to the parachute over the Midwest and was never seen again they think that guy died though hmm well that that would be a convenient explanation for the failure of the FBI to catch him yeah it would be convenient but also didn't he like drop into the woods I don't know the details they never found him body or money

ever again but that can happen pretty easy I would be more likely or more apt to believe that if someone dropped in the woods out of parachute with some fucking haphazard gear and left out of the back of a plane they probably died probably got eaten by bears or something yes or or found by a local Woodsman in the cabin who's like some some dude fell out of the sky with a satchel full of money thump yeah my money

hey I need a new chain saw yeah that but when you're stealing money from a bank can't they trace the serial numbers like if you steal cash like if you go you know this is a robbery stick them up you point a gun at the teller and they fill up the bag with currency and you run out the door don't they have like a trace on that money like where they can if you spend the really - no no not really and they can't because they have all kinds of I mean yes if they had a batch of sequentially numbered

clean money yeah but that's not how most banks work what the money they have on hand is the stuff that came deposited in the last week by various people cash businesses like delis and grocery stores and things like that and they have no idea what the numbers on those bills are and they don't trace it it's simply considered part of the risk of business and what is this avoid DB Cooper's money before Oh Shiva serial some of it get this out of the left side of my

my ear not unlike some of its bad cable have to reset okay no sign of DB Cooper ever emerged investigators doubt he survived and never been able to determine his true identity but a boy digging on the Columbia River Beach in 1980 found three bundles of weathered $20 bills Cooper's cash according to the serial numbers that guy's dead as fuck they found his money so of his money well you like left some of it just being sneaky I'm gonna pretend I'm dead I'm just leave some of this here no they only found

like a very small I don't think they recovered more than a tiny fraction of it oh yeah but I don't know I mean I don't remember the details did you always steal like 200 Grand though I think it was only like two hundred thousand dollars or yeah and those days you could pay the national debt with that kind of money what year was it like except he's 71 is a lot of money in those days that DB Cooper stores an interesting story it's people love a story like that we're people don't get caught yeah the mystery of the unknown all the mount gox thing

exchange is kind of a mystery to that's a hundred million dollar many hundreds of millions of dollar mystery inside story of Mount gox Bitcoins 460 million dollar disaster for 60 look at that guy they're leading him around yeah that smartly impart Palace whose yes that's the guy who creates now out on parole I believe or on our pending trial so that guys out for and sixty million dollars and he's out yeah of course well is he responsible

just because he's retarded you know that that's one of the things we don't know and maybe we'll never know how much of that response but whether it was deliberate whether it was an inside job whether it was simply incompetence well he was certainly there was an enormous amount of in comp enormous that's clear and when you listen to him talk I've heard him in speeches when he's discussing the issue you like wait a minute that guy I guess exactly it's what have you heard Bernie Madoff talk yes

yeah right I mean the thing is the even even the most and the interesting thing is that just up to the day before Bernie Madoff wasn't die indicted he was the top trusted name on Wall Street he had the most Stellar credit rating he was the head of the credit rating Agency for those types of funds that he was rated under and the next day he's a crook so is you can see these things happen throughout human history the changing

the form of money you use doesn't change that but if you change the architecture of money and you make it less necessary and less useful to concentrate the money in the hands of third parties that has an impact and so that's one of the issues with this something like Mount gox or with any banking system yes other than a Bitcoin system with yes I mean the problem is the counterparty risk if you give your money to other people the entire reason we have oversight in banking

is because of the simple truth that if you give your money to other people eventually they'll try to steal it that's it and the only reason they don't get someone in the bank is going to have a tremendous need a tremendous gambling problem and addiction something right more just have a lack of empathy and social socialization and just be you know correct crooked but they don't even have to be crooked they can make a mistake

and trading and tried to cover it up with customer money they can have a debt their their parent may require an expensive surgery that they can't afford there's lots of reasons why people commit financial fraud and not all of it is because they're just greedy evil assholes but but the bottom line is that all of the oversight system we have in banking which by the way fails again and again and again and again to protect regular people from these thefts all of these systems we have exist

one reason so the answer is not build better systems to watch the people who hold your money the answer the Bitcoin gives is don't let others hold your money hold your own money and then you don't have this problem there was a recent investigative report about a firm in Georgia I want to say it's Atlanta that has a ridiculously high rate of success with Investments and they interviewed the guy who runs

is it and you know his reasons for while they're so wildly successful and they make so much more money than anybody else were very suspect and they're closing in on this guy like what's going on over here and they think that not only is the Bernie Madoff model not just Bernie Madoff but they think that it's common and that there's a lot of people there that might be supplementing legitimate Investments with a pyramid scheme and that it's been a standard operational model for a

out of these firms because they've been able to pull it off what we've seen again and again throughout history in the area of Finance is that when there's a recession when there is a drop in income and profitability for everyone that event is actually really good for capitalism what it does is it washes out the frauds it washes out the failure is it washes out the unprofitable businesses it's a great cleansing event right

because the tide recedes and suddenly you see who's not wearing swimming trunks all right so we knew there was something fishy going on water but it's a good way of looking at it when that happens in in wall Street's all of those companies that were simply reinvesting the the recent gains to pay the people who withdrawing their money or the retirees that are supporting in their Pension funds Etc suddenly that they don't they can't do that anymore they washed out of the business

badly performing businesses on profitable is all of these things get washed out we haven't been doing this in this country for the last three decades instead what happens is every time there is a recession the FED steps in or the government steps in and basically they pump water to raise the tide again right as much as possible and that means that a lot of the quirks float from recession to recession without getting revealed

field worse it encourages that kind of behavior and so you get all of these businesses whose only ability to make profits is when the interest rate to zero and this twenty billion dollars a month being injected by the fed and their business model is take that and lend it to Consumers for 2999 APR right or do payday loans or subprime loans or subprime Auto student loans mortgages etc etc

you need a cleansing event to wash out the fraud I like the example of a forest fire if you suppress all of the small fires will happens is eventually you build up a lot of undergrowth in the forest a small Fire doesn't kill the trees it just cleans out the undergrowth you keep putting out the fires which we've seen since the 70s here in the States you let all of the undergrowth grow up then when a fire comes through it's not just a little forest fire it's a

a raging Inferno now you can't put it out and it burns the trees and destroys the soil sterilized has the top foot of soil we've seen this happen right and so this is now happening in terms of our economy which is that all of this bubble creation doesn't get washed out in a recession more stimulus more funding the Federal Reserve pumps more money into the economy trillions of dollars since 2008

and all of the stimulus where does it go it goes into inflating not one bubble we had real estate but now we have real estate and subprime auto and student loans and and and and bonds and stocks and currencies all inflating at the same time

this is it possible to do a controlled burn for the economy like that's what they're doing in some places where they want to deal with the issue that you know you're talking about how they stop forest fires that's theoretically part of the Mandate of the Federal Reserve which most people don't realize is a private Corporation owned by the Banks and not a government agency yeah that's a tricky name yeah Saddle River that has nothing to do with that yeah yeah it's kind of gross yeah in fact I can't name say my paw

Russian company for the book The the federal publisher they won't allow me to put the word Federal in the the name of my company as they shouldn't write but in order to create an organization like that you need an act of Congress in fact actually what you need is an act of Congress passed in the middle of the night on a recess which is exactly how they pass the Federal Reserve Act in 1913 that was a long-ass time ago yeah it's so ridiculous to keep that name but there is federal ammunition I should just say that you could buy bullets

company called Federal ammunition has nothing to do with the federal government interest a good good company to buy bullets from hmm it just seems like the the controlled burn idea how would you apply that to the economy I mean if what what we're talking about raise the interest rates you raise them yep it's drains the which drains the swamp raise the interest rates basically the interest rate controls the cost of money if you make money more

expensive then those who borrow at have to have a pretty good rate of investment in a return on their investment to invest it right otherwise they don't borrow money that's an extremely unpopular idea though right so how do you get that across well it's an it's an unpopular idea because it benefits Savers instead of debtors right so if you if you have savings it's a great idea I remember a time when I could get a certificate of deposit for my savings in the bank and I could get

3% a year 3% a year right I can't get point three percent now so Savers get wiped out if you're a retiree who's got all of their money in savings right now the return you're getting on those savings isn't enough to cover your cost of living so your money basically is shrinking and that's a tax on Savers that benefits debtors especially very large debtors like the federal government yeah it's such a complicated system that for the average person is working

all day and you know you get home you have hobbies and family and things that you want to do it's very difficult to get a grip on exactly how money Works yes it is and it's one of the things I found through my experiences doing these talks that I do and I talked about that in the book to the whole point of this particular book The Internet of money is why Bitcoin and I talked about the philosophy behind money the topics of money that most people don't understand

and what's really astonishing is that here I am and I'm talking about the greatest experiment in money started in 2008 2009 and this great experiment is completely unprecedented in the history of money and I'm not talking about Bitcoin I'm talking about 22 central banks simultaneously taking their interest rate to zero and pumping the largest amount of money ever created into the world economy trying to stop it from collapsing

and that has created the largest bubble in history and the weird thing is that most people are not even aware that they're living in a time when we are doing this completely unprecedented untested no one knows where it goes huge monitor experiments in which two billion people are hostage as part of it at least right and nobody knows where this is going to go but most economists mainstream Economist say this doesn't end well

what's that mean though and then we have the other little monetary experiment which is hey money on the internet with a controlled issuance only a certain amount of the money is created it's controlled by a mathematical formula you can't make more and as a result it's got a stable Supply it sound money and it cannot be manipulated by governments or Banks well it's so confusing for anyone as it is when you get into the issue of what is money and

money coming from and how does the Federal Reserve how does the government how does anybody create more money how do you print more money and if you are praying more money where's it coming from and what is it that right but what is it like what is money you used to be gold it used to be the gold standard used to be if you had a dollars a dollars worth of gold it was a note that was worth $1 worth of gold yes that made sense and that stopped what first stopped in 1936 I believe Bretton Woods agreement

and then it stopped completely in 1971 when Nixon closed the gold window he basically said if anyone comes to your bank and gives you one silver dollar A1 gold dollar and says I want my silver you say no and basically defaulted on the backing of US Dollars by gold I met this really wacky guy a long time ago that was he was coming on the comic stores this really odd guy for a bunch of reasons but one of the things is

carried a gun everywhere he went and he believed in he believed in precious gold coins that were minted outside of the federal government in using those as currency yes and so he would have these coins that he carried with him everything we try to pay for things in these coins like gold and silver coins mostly silver it's silver coins and he was trying to explain to me that this is legal and that you know they're supposed to accept these and

it was very weird stuff was a very very odd he was very annoying to is one of the guys are like talk to you kept touching you we would talk to you in like hold you and like like grab your arm and hold you and like touch you and all right fuck her what are you here control freak he's it's a weird control freak you know someone saying something to you and they are holding on to you while they're saying that to you unless you're in love with them you know like creates a very strange moment yeah why are you holding me can I get loose here what

have to run away real quick you have to break this grip but this guy used to carry these coins around with them I can't fucking sack he likes to touch his money Elvis off commercials and shit like that no man they were like some weird Fucking Coin like an American Eagle on them and yeah this these are often yeah they're not weird they're minted in the u.s. full silver coins because now they're weird as fuck they're weird if you try to use them to buy a coffee although a lot of people buy these and gold coins and small go

gold bars as Investments they keep him in a safe right and the idea is if there is a significant crash in the currency then these have holding value right and it's not it's I think perfectly saying to say if you have some money put aside in savings don't put it all in stocks maybe diversify put a bit in Precious Metals maybe put a bit in digital currencies maybe put a bit and commodities and other things that's kind of reasonable

thing and here's the thing a lot of the people who have these kinds of attitudes come from families and from cultures where there has been a time in the past two generations where you leave in the middle of the night with all of your belongings in a pillowcase and with people with guns and dogs after you trying to murder you and this happens today in Syria right it happens one generation ago to my parents generation in

in Greece with the Nazis it happens to the Russian people it happens to people all over the world and when that happens and it's it's really close when it happens generation before right your parents tell you the stories it's a different feeling it hasn't happened to most Americans in at least two or three generations but when that happens what do you put in the pillowcase I'll tell you something the pieces of paper are worthless

when that happens and that's why some people do want to have physical coin now one of the things we've noticed now is that digital currencies may start to serve a role the fact is that you can memorize 12 English words and carry your entire Bitcoin wallet in your head and if you do that well you 12 English words one of those Works Rumpelstiltskin party on yeah so you can

generate a Bitcoin wallet right and then make a backup of it and for convenience some of the inventors in the space developed a system where you can back up any Bitcoin wallet even if it has millions and billions of transactions and assets in it you can back it up to between 12 and 24 English words that are generated automatically by the program so we could be like that speech in Pulp Fiction where Samuel Jackson pulls a gun on that kid that could be your password yes

you don't pick the words though oh you don't pick the words you're going to get a series of words and they're going to be you know asparagus forests attorney whatever all I like dicks please shit on my head yeah no sentences and no words like that

but think about the power of being able to transport an unlimited amount of money simply by memorizing 12 words that can't be confiscated from you when you're a refugee it's amazing they look the whole the whole idea behind it is incredibly fascinating to me and I've been a fan of it since the time I met you and before that I was reasonably interested in it but of course having you illuminated in such a great way really made it much more much more enticing much more interesting and I've always

been curious from that point on as to where it's going to go and I just don't I don't know when I look at the landscape of money and I look at the landscape of people that are willing to make this leap I don't know what it would take to get people fully on board with Bitcoin but I believe like you do that the system that we have now the banking system is incredibly corrupt and just bizarre and fragile and Fred

and I think that's the thing that most people are missing it looks giant imposing its being there for a century that is not a sign of strength did you find that that company and Atlanta that has this massive return on your investment that's being investigated okay but it's got to be a bunch of those people out there that are doing that right

yeah absolutely there's there's a lot of a system like that which is which is very opaque which most people don't understand is the kind of system you want to corrupt because that's where you can make the most money without anybody noticing and of course you know Financial crime is not really prosecuted in this country in 2008 Giants crisis millions of homeowners kicked out of their homes illegal foreclosures robo-signing Mills blah blah blah blah the only person who went to jail

Bernie Madoff who stole from the rich pretty much everybody else scot-free it is pretty interesting it's almost like he was just a scapegoat well he was obviously a crook he was obviously a crook he was obviously a crook but I'm a sociopath or something surrounded by hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of quarks in the same scale and giant investment banks that are just as corrupt and we don't see that right you you can get you can get pulled over for

a busted taillight and thrown in jail in plenty of the states in this country for six months for having an herb in your car and at the same time you can put a million people out of their homes through straight-up fraud with mountains of evidence and emails and things like that and they're Untouchable that system the problem isn't the fact that there is fraud the problem is that the the system itself is fragile because of that

and if it was just them going out of business when the fragile system has problems when it has hiccups as it did in 2008 that's fine but it's not just them going out of business it's a generation of kids who leave college with nothing waiting for all them but like job and you know coming into a generation where their parents could get by with one income in a household and now

three jobs each in a household of two and you can't afford to buy a car let alone a house right so we're part of the new sharing economy what is the sharing economy it's the I can't own anything because I can't afford anything economy so that whole generation is now suffering because of that fragility of the system and the fragility hasn't gone away but I don't want to dwell too much on the negative right because there are the thing that I find

positive and interesting about Bitcoin is that it serves a global Society it is truly Global transnational money there's plenty of places in the world to have it worse than the us there are some places that have it better financially but it really is quite an incredible concept to be able to have this money that can operate on a global basis and with that the opportunities to buy and sell and trade and

just and borrow internationally the fact that what we did with the fundraising here to fundraise for those Wells right we don't know if that was just people in the u.s. donating it wasn't I can guarantee you there were people from all over the world donating that's almost impossible to do with traditional Payment Systems you could have then sent that money directly to where the wells were being built again anywhere in the world and

that's really exciting to me people are uncomfortable with Bitcoin because it represents changing one of the fundamental ancient Technologies of civilization money and we've only changed that technology for five times in the history of human civilization

we've gone from Bare Bones barter systems here's a goat give me three chickens right to systems of precious metals and other nice objects feathers shells Etc to exclusively precious metals into precious metals stamped with the faces of kings and then at some point around the the 15th century you start seeing certificates of deposit for further pressure

metal being exchanged paper notes the I have a deposit of gold there I'm not going to move the gold for my deposit to your deposit I'll just give you the piece of paper that says you're now the owner and paper money is introduced and and then plastic in the 1950s Diners Club traveler's checks and the first credit cards and if you think any of these transitions were smooth none of them were smooth you go to someone who's been using precious metals for ten generations and you say hey

this piece of paper is money they're like mmm give me something shiny that I can bite that's money this paper I don't know who you are go away how long is that transition 400 years right until broad acceptance of paper money 400 years with huge resistance it took almost 40 years for credit cards to go mainstream with Bitcoin we're going to do it probably in less than

you think so but I think it's almost 10:00 it's in about 7 7 yeah and it's accelerating very much I think in some countries you're going to see either Bitcoin or a cryptocurrency very similar or based on bitcoin be used as commonly as a national currency we're not looking to displace National currencies we're looking to supplement them I think the idea being that people will get comfortable using multiple currencies just like many places they are if you

for operating you know between the border of Kenya and Tanzania for example you're probably going to use four different currencies Kenyan money tens Annie and US Dollars and Euros easily possibly also South African rand so you've got four or five currencies you can stop it a four-year-old in the street and ask them what the exchange rate is and they'll tell you right because they trade for their parents and Merchants stalls along the border and they have people coming with all

ends of different currencies it's not that difficult to assume that there's digital currencies in that future either there or in a major modern Metropolis where people are using Bitcoin to transact online at to buy things virtual Things music video things like that what you want to make very very small payments were credit cards and not suitable and use Bitcoin as well as their normal currencies what is the progress that makes you so optimistic like what is the

mirror if you could point to any one thing or several things that make you optimistic about Bitcoins future

well I think watching it as as a computer scientist as a technologist I look at this and I see Innovation that is accelerating and I see much of the early Vision opening up the possibility of doing things that are so far outside what we could do with traditional money that it it often blows my mind for example a technology that's being introduced into Bitcoin now is called payment channels

and what it allows you to do is to do a very high volume of a very small transactions at a very rapid rate let's say you're you want to watch a video and you want to pay the owner of that video to send it to you how about paying by the second and so you say you set up basically an account and you pay by every second of video maybe every fifth of a second 200 milliseconds

video at a time and you're paying a fraction that is a thousandth of a penny

and you keep watching video and paying a thousandth of a penny for every fifth of a second on this drip metered basis well you're not doing it your computer software is doing it communicating with our computer software and now you can do this really incredible thing you can pay for Content what it's actually worth whereas the threshold for payment on a credit card is two to three dollars unless your Apple and you're doing billions in which case you can take it down to 99 Cents that's about the lowest you can go so meaning

watching like something on YouTube or some similar video streaming device you would have to pay service rather you'd have to pay but you would pay a very miniscule amount yes what like what are you talking like a couple of cents like to watch you know I literally mean a thousandth of five hundredths of a cent to watch a video well it depends how long the video is right you couldn't you could yeah I could be a scale you could pay a penny yeah you could pay a penny or half a penny or tenth of a penny to watch her video but what

how would that work for the people that are providing content like well you see the thing is they operate at a scale I have 30,000 views on one of my videos right so YouTube pays me 30 bucks for that if I put ads in front if I was getting a penny from each of my customers or because these are like our long videos maybe I'm going to charge more baby I'm going to charge 25 cents you know 30,000 views 25 cents

somebody do the math please not good at solving problem a Seven Grand

no it's like 70 bucks $70

25 cents is a quarter of $1 now it's 7,000 you're right yeah yeah so it's a rare time where I'm right in her mouth fucking quick question like that so so maybe I'm going to charge less maybe it but in any case I can beat what YouTube gives me in terms of AD Revenue with each customer paying a fraction of a penny and here's the real question but I get this content for free right now interest why would I pay for it

of a penny yeah he don't get it for free you're okay no you're paying them yes in micro violations of your privacy

what's your If the product costs less than two or three dollars making the stinkface now if I'm with you but I was a weird way to word it yeah if it was another chord if the payment is worth less than 2 or 3 dollars right which means they can't collect it with a credit card what they're doing is they're selling your data to advertisers there are selling your identity your demographics your data to advertisers so you're getting your having to give up things you don't give

I'm up at that moment you've given them our previously when you registered for the thing and verified your email and then verified your age and your gender and provided all of this demographic information which they then parcel up and give to the advertisers but you're still paying for the content what you're paying by the fact that you can no longer engage with the web without it being filtered to what they think you want and who they think

think you are right so you're getting this highly filtered pigeon-holed view of content and they do that using your information to present what they think you would like to watch based on what they've sold to the advertisers you're no longer a customer you're the product

the customer is the advertising agency whereas if you sell content directly you re-establish the relationship of who is the creator and who is the customer the consumer of this content and you cut out the two middle moment yeah but you're cutting out advertising good luck and also the other thing is like people don't want to pay even if it's a fraction of a penny they just don't want to pay I disagree do you think if people there's a lot of dopes at watch YouTube all day like they sit in front of their computer they Slack

our from morning to night and they just watch YouTube videos if they just calculated those fractions of a penny all day that would be dollars and dollars every day which would mean hundreds of dollars every few months well you've got to think about this as a broader economy because a lot of these people could also earn a badge by making a good comment which actually ends up covering some of their cost of viewing so you've got to think about you can earn from Comas yeah that's where it gets really interesting is

Jane all this that you're talking about know you could do this with Bitcoin you could do this with blockchain you what is the difference in blockchain and Bitcoin sorry to hijack the no no problem so blockchain is one of the Technologies used in Bitcoin it's a distributed database where all of the transactions are linked together using cryptographic proofs Bitcoin is one implementation of a blockchain and blockchain has now been used as a marketing term so that means very little it's kind of like Web 2.0 we don't really know what it is

right it's a lot of hybrid Auto yet yeah which is blockchain oh okay that's ironic isn't it is yeah and it's nebulous but the point is that you can do more than just currency earlier we were talking a bit about trolling on Twitter and other platforms like that before we started the live broadcast well think about what a troll is doing what they're doing is they're stealing attention they're taking attention

without contributing anything back to the community there's an interesting and fairly effective Market solution to this which is instead of assigning someone to do oversight and decide who is and who isn't a troll and censor them you basically allow people to contribute again minuscule fraction for the comments they like they are pero like thumbs up but with each one of those likes and thumbs-up you attach a ten thousandth of a penny with it

you know irrelevant small tiny money and then the people who write comments that are broadly appreciated that add value to the community are in a tiny bit of money not really anything serious but if they try to comment they have to spend a bit of that credit that they've earned that reputation that they've earned and if they're not a troll it doesn't it all comes out equal in the wash they don't end up spending anything they don't end up earning anything it's just participation the community but if there are trolls suddenly

it's getting interesting because now it gets expensive to steal the attention of the community because the less you have positive feedback the more expensive it gets for you to post until eventually your priced out but does not also they're also can kind of enforce or encourage confirmation bias because if you go to a website that's just completely ridiculous and it's a message board filled with morons and you argue with them could cost you to argue with

Ron's because it going to down value yeah yeah it could and just choose to not comment but you could you've got to think about this again across a broader economy with a broader set of forms in which in some you are valued experts and other you're the idiot who's arguing against the conventional wisdom yeah and and you know you can actually balance these things out but if you go to a flat Earth forum and argue with those people hmm that cost you money yes I had an argument with someone about chemtrails

how'd that go it went really it went very very interestingly I wasn't expecting to change their mind and they really wanted to hear my opinion and it was really interesting because we started the conversation I said Okay first I'm a pilot I have a pilot's license I fly small planes that puts you in an extreme Advantage yes it's conversation hmm well you think you would think that

it's I'm and it's not it's not appeal to Authority right it's saying those nozzles that you're pointing at I know what those are I have to I have to walk around the plane before I take off and make sure all of them are correctly attached in the place they should be doing the things they should be doing otherwise I don't survive the flight so you are a part of the chemtrail sprayers Association of America are saying yes that's pretty much the conclusion one of those what are those nozzles

vowels actually in the in the in the the ones pointing forward are called pitot tubes and they're used to measure the velocity of the aircraft through the air by a pressure differential and the ones pointing backwards are usually to break up of fortresses these are little swirly currents of air has to come off the wing the cost turbulence and you want to break those up so they don't swirl by the way the trails are clouds how long have you been a chef

so water the US government indeed of course I'm Michelle I'm a chauffeur can't believe I'm things I'm interested in shut it off Jamie yeah I've had these conversations with so many people and so can rest rating you can present mountains of evidence if someone really really doesn't want to believe they they really will not believe well there's also mean it's been going on forever I mean if you go back to the 1940s there's pictures black and white photos from World War 1 or World War II rather

and where you can see planes leaving Behind These enormous contrails so it's a stupid argument I mean it really is I mean we've known for a long time that depending upon how much moisture is in the atmosphere when planes pass through it they will create clouds it's just real simple just changes the temperature of the air and it creates clouds and it's usually on Hazy Days not only that but NASA has a website where you can go to it and it will accurately predict contrails look into that that is those are from

propeller engines yeah in 1940's and what's happening is the propeller is compressing the air and when it compresses the air of the change in pressure changes the dew point and the dew point is what determines whether the air moisture condenses into a visible Vapor yes into droplets that are clouds and so by pushing a thing through the air you're pressing on the air and when you press on the air that causes condensation to form in that conversation

follows you in a circular Cloud behind the plane yeah and this happens at any plane propeller plane I've done it in a four-seater Cessna that's that's smaller than a than a Fiat sedan right and on a on a wet day you can see little Trails coming off the tips of the Wings and I'm pretty sure I didn't put any spray nozzles there or flip this way I didn't I saw this which it said chemtrail them and I didn't flip it

didn't you don't how much liquid you would have to have in your plane in order to spray these enormous Jets across the sky I mean it would be insane it would be insane I mean if the entire plane was filled up I mean filled and you would have so much liquid that would be visible from the ground floating in space and then you talk to people you know I did that television show on Syfy called Joe Rogan questions everything and one of the things that I question was chemtrail so I talk too much chemtrail are

quote experts and one of these guys had this study that he had done on water and this standing water study was proving that the spraying in the air was making aluminum it was putting aluminum in the water and the water supply and so he had this water tested and so I showed me the test I'm going over the test I can world says sludge and he goes well it was water I gave them water I go okay

it says sludge like the laboratory that you sent this stuff to says sludge and he and will he was like well what is exactly sludge what's the definition I'm like well let's Google it so we googled sludge and with sludge is is water mixed with dirt so I said okay so your water mixed with dirt contains aluminum do you know how much aluminum there is in dirt because it's the exact amount that they tested when they tested the world the

otter that you had with dirt so what happened is your dirt tested positive for being dirt and you're using that as proof that the government is spraying the skies above everybody's head and you want to talk about like a piss-poor cost-ineffective shitbag program that does absolutely nothing Chemtrails would be it because it's not doing anything like no one's getting sick there's no like rise in illnesses there's no like -

control going on there's nothing there is there is no mind control going on there is no mind control going on there is no mind-controlling I mean it's the dumbest fucking thing it'd be easier to just put it in your Municipal Water Supply yeah well I mean as argument and doing that to its well of course of course man they move it with the plains to the yes they're spraying it drops it falls in the water supply and then you drink it something like that anyway yes bring themselves to by the way but they're immune to it because they're lizards

you know they're down here too so he's crazy the sky in discriminately I mean I guarantee you some Illuminati's are getting sprayed I'm gonna get some hate mail for this I know it well yeah for sure we're getting it right now people are wiping the Cheetos off their greasy little fat fucking fingers right now and hammering at the keyboards ready to call a Scheels it's the dumbest it's what there's a guy who runs what is the website meta bunk metabolic.com

what is his name Mick anyway he he calls it the training wheels for conspiracy theorist because it's above your head are you seeing it all the time you're like what is going on up there why is that was very cloud like what is that and he started thinking man the government's doing something secretly yes main quest thank you oh metabolic debunked look Nick West is a shill he's a shill debunked debunk debunk debunked debunked by he got death threats and hate man when he came on

TV show with me whoo yeah yeah this is the guy yeah this is how does this hedge fund manager make so much money look at them just look at him sweating will get us look at this annual returns of 13% 24% or even 91% since 2013 anybody how it's done either you think it's just a computer program you have to pay for a decade upfront and if you leave he gets half the principal oh gee I wonder how it works Jesus fucking

Christ you crook clients hold on a second clue is it clients aren't sure how it's done and Joseph A mire Junior The Man Behind the Obscure hedge fund ow ow our June LP is keeping his cards close oh Jesus Christ invest most of his clients money and safe treasury bonds yeah it's safe as fuck if you can't take your money out for 10 years you know everybody in their can't take their money out for 10 years that's Insanity that's insane that that's that kind of like I mean you don't know this guy

look at that what's that what is that all right I don't know I mean if you had a gas

if I had to guess I'm gonna give you two options yeah legit or scam yes I don't know I would say it is most likely a Ponzi scheme which is outrageous something people throw around a lot but here's the interesting thing is why do these schemes happen right would you look who's out his offer he offers an extraordinary guarantee with Arjuna you never lose might work for us what kind of name is I think

actually part of the definition of investment fraud is guaranteed returns so if you make a guarantee like that it's usually one of the triggers that gets people investigated

he doesn't but you never lose money you never great investment that's fantastic invest you should get involved yeah some people some Bitcoin in that and solidify it yeah okay every times this month I'm gonna do the opposite if you invest your money in Bitcoin you will lose money whoa you will you will gain money you will lose money you will gain money you will lose we don't know that's no one is and I want to be really careful about this because many people go out and they push

these things as Investments and you can have a lot of volatility in sometimes when you have a lot of policies some people get lucky and they make a lot of money and some people are great at picking their moment and they make some money they bail out they make it kind of money like right now we're at six hundred bucks if you bought it back when it was like what was it the lowest point the lowest lowest point lowest lowest about a thousandth of a dollar I've thousands of $1.00 to to 600 descents

here you could yeah so I mean if you put in like a fucking big pile of money yes five grand and if you took it out the wrong moment you would lose all of it and this is why this isn't this isn't a speculative instruments or people can speculate in it isn't it isn't I'm sorry to interrupt you but isn't the well kind of poisoned of the financial well with speculative investing like what what people are doing it seems like it shouldn't be legal

eagle and what's really fucked up about it is that they're doing it with algorithms and their their gambling and they're they're they're buying and selling within the like a fraction of a second and they're doing it in the point where there was a Radiolab podcast where they talked about how investment firms did you see that one or listen to that one I have heard that one yeah we're investment firms moved their servers closer to the exchange so that you get in there their orders and

exchange is quicker there yes Mahwah New Jersey where the data center is of the none of the stock trading happens in Manhattan and happens across the water and New Jersey as a data center there were probably the largest amount of money moves ever and they have measured runs of fiber meaning that in order to be fair the fiber optic cable between the service that do the trading and every one of the rocks that are in the room are measured to be the equal length so that the speed of light

rotation across a room of a hundred feet does not Advantage One customer over another isn't that incredible we're talking microseconds right yeah well people have been forced because of this to move their offices from the middle of the country where they were two right there or rent space where their servers are right there it's really it's so bizarre because a lot of this stuff is actually done with computers so these computers are operating on an algorithm the algorithm

recognize patterns they start these exchanges and they buy and sell and buy and sell and buy and sell and do all of this within fractions of a second yeah over the last decade most trading floors have seen 90% of their Traders disappear so there are empty rooms you can see photos of its online where it shows before and after photos of very big Banks like UBS and JP Morgan Goldman Sachs companies like that and you see they're trading floor and it is empty because a lot of that has now moved to algorithmic

make trading so strange what a weird weird way to invest in buying some thank you look at that oh my God that's the before and after and it's not because they're making less money right this is not this is not this is not a downturn this during this time they've actually made more money but there's something about those Stock Exchange videos that were in movies you know it's bye-bye sound sound they've got their hands up and there I want two of these and five of these and they're holding up pieces of paper that is so daunting all that stuff is so

going back to a person on the outside looking at that and trying to figure out what the fuck those people are doing like it seems exciting and chaotic and vibrant but so confusing right but that is that is the American economy right now essentially it's based on confidence all that's happening yeah so

shall we talk about a slightly different topic sure whatever you want I want to tell you about some of the new developments that are happening in Bitcoin which I find interesting and I'm not going to show because this is not really about a company or a specific product but I want to talk about one of the things that has me excited which is a wall happens when you combine technology that looks very much like peer-to-peer Napster or BitTorrent with a

service like eBay and you create this hybrid technology which is a completely peer-to-peer store service called open bizarre and and this is basically a system where you run on your computer some software and you can open a store to delivery the physical Goods or virtual Goods have them listed have them found by others and then all of the payments are done

one in Bitcoin so by decentralizing the payment system we can also decentralize the the store system completely and it is a completely borderless multinational open and peer-to-peer open source software Merchant system running on top of Bitcoin

which I've just find fascinating the ability for anyone to open a store especially in countries where you don't have eBay right mmm and be able to sell goods and services anywhere in the world and receive payment in in Bitcoin and there's this operational right now yep and I'm selling that book on open bizarre so how does one axis open bizarre to to the Luddite they run software yeah fees no

action and they download the software run it on their computer funds a Bitcoin wallet and which sits on their computer they don't have to give their money to anyone there is no intermediaries and you buy directly from the store and the person running the store is running the same software well let's see what some of the things that they have available we went to open bizarre dot-org to find another way to look at it okay yeah if you go to Duo search is a search engine on top D Hue oh

oh s EA r dot CH so Duo search is so because this is an open protocol and because all of the listings are in a peer-to-peer Network you can just go online Run a search engine and create a search engine that searches the store wow it's a third party that just has a search engine for searching the store so you can you can search online there and tell it what you're looking for and find something from t-shirts to

Gary just you can find my place okay but not that's not what I want to look again by a flip phone go back there you get a phone for Ari what's going on there a lot of these dorks are going to flip phones now 20 bucks for a cryo Sarah or that's an LG LG 44

it's goddamn bargain have you ever thought about going flip phone me yeah no that's I'm in the opposite category I haven't actually received a phone call on my phone probably in three years and really it's not if I don't know how - I had out of here I have a portable computer which also has a phone function on it that I keep Switched Off you keep it off pretty much yeah it doesn't ring ever it doesn't ring but my ring text you but people text you yes but that

actually gets redirected to my email so I don't do text I do it through either hangouts or email so when I send you a text it doesn't really go to you as a text know it comes through to Google Hangouts you are one of the weirdest guys of ERM I know I use it as a portable computer it's my Communicator device the phone function is irrelevant to me well don't you ever want to talk to people don't you go hey man how you doing I do video talks most the time I know I'm weird okay when I talk to people it's on well they're selling CBD oil

CBD oil organic pure raw natural CBD see and that is where the goddamn government is going to come in and close this whole thing down what are you guys doing mitigating pain you pieces of shit we're gonna come in with dogs and bite you yeah they're probably actually only selling that's within Oregon within a jurisdiction where it's legal right because they can sell it within that jurisdiction from that jurisdiction and it's perfectly legal to sell Colorado we'll just clarify its growing and getting

in sighs it's funny we're talking about how weird you are he showed up Andreas has a Apple laptop and I was like how dare you walk in here with an Apple product I expect you to have some Linux box and of course he's running Linux on his Apple computer

it's just well I'm here I'm also running Linux I'm running a bunch of things but yeah it's a beautiful piece of Hardware I like it that doesn't mean I like everything else the company does or you just don't like the restrictive aspects of it right uh yeah yeah you're all Android right yes I am on my what are you using now which I have a Nexus 5 oh that's okay so this is the newest in the latest greatest of the Google phones so runs the the pure Google or did you yeah it's no carrier branding its I bought

I own the phone I it's not a lease hmm well those the newest latest and greatest Android phones are at the very least commensurate with the newest and latest and greatest iPhones yeah I think the the average person that slight differences in Hardware really are irrelevant at this point well what does matter however is what you can and can't do with the software and how much of your life at controls and how much privacy you have with the saw

software that you run on these devices as you may have noticed I'm all about control and privacy being able to control my money control my devices control my privacy I think that's that should be a principle that we should all celebrate its fundamental freedom and we're gradually losing it well I'm a big fan of options as well so I'm happy that Androids come along and created options right because it was for a long time was like yeah

it's an option but it sucks right and now it's it's not just mean the Galaxy S7 of you ever messed with that the Samsung Galaxy S7 but not seen it yeah it's a phenomenal phone yeah I mean it is easily as good as an iPhone it's an amazing phone and throw it into a gear VR headsets and you get fully immersive VR that is mind-blowing yeah I actually have a little headset that I can put this phone into and to VR stuff is good but it's not as good as the HTC Vive

my friend Duncan Duncan Trussell has the vibe I also paid $30 for my headset well I guess he said if I'm is what 1200 it's probably something like that yeah slight difference in price yes there's definitely a difference in price but it is it's very encouraging that not only is there a competitor to Apple but it is actually an equal now you know I think the more options people have like that the better there are for everybody and it would be nice if there was a commensurate

system because there's not really well no not really for Geek heads like me it's Linux but essentially what happened is because Linux was so successful it became Android Android was built on top of Linux Century it is at it's very core it is Linux right but why don't they make that kind of an operating system for a computer for a laptop because from what I can tell really laptops are gradually disappearing the laptop Market is

disappearing really really fast today there was some announcements from Apple they're changing some of their operating system commitments but they're making the seven yeah they're making the operating system more and more like iOS and gradually diminishing the importance of laptops because most people do pretty much everything they need to do on their smart phones nowadays it is it makes a difference that it's nice that I can take my

on with me I have the larger iPhone that I use most of the time and I also have a Samsung phone but the larger iPhone that I use most of the time I can take with me and I don't feel like I'm missing a laptop but if I need to work yeah if I need to get some stuff done I want a laptop on a full-size keyboard yeah I want to if I'm writing especially I want to be a little work yeah you know I want to be able to also plug in headsets and listen to music while I'm working and also have power at the same time and says a lot of I'm not I'm a big fan of actual

Pewters I like an actual computer at home with a yeah detach keyboard and a real monitor I mean just I just think those things there's some benefits of those things to someone who writes in particular yeah they'll do you think the Great American novel is being written by thumbs right now well Steven Wright was writing a whole book and tweets yeah yeah he was writing a novel in tweets yeah that got trapped on a real keyboard your book and of money were for people who are listening so

else is exciting for you right now about Bitcoin so I think one of the things we've seen that that has been quite interesting is that it has become easier and easier and easier to use and easier to get into Bitcoin and easier to use Bitcoin in your everyday life I remember a time when it was very very difficult to do all of those things now there are probably six or seven hundred exchanges around the world you talked about mt.gox

Ox in Japan the first Bitcoin exchange the really the first major Bitcoin exchange at the time it was the exchange there were no others and that was both a single point of failure in a weakness for Bitcoin as it proved but it also made it very difficult now there are at least four or five major exchanges operating in the u.s. very easy to access access the system to

acted maybe to a bank account or debit card and to if you want to convert dollars to bitcoin or Bitcoin $2 I'm mostly on the other side iron Bitcoin and then I convert it into dollars to pay for things that I can't pay in Bitcoin very easy to do that that's a major advancement that makes it much easier for people to get involved as much as they want they don't have to learn everything they don't have to do there's a company called bit wage

Edge which allows you to take a percentage of your paycheck and have it sent to you in Bitcoin and it's very easy for an employer to set it up with any of the traditional payroll systems where they say you can say just like I'm going to put 2% of my account into a savings account and in 98% into my checking account a lot of companies offer that well now you can say and I also want to put two percent of my paycheck every month into this and to the employer

it looks like a routing number and account number but on the other end it gets converted into Bitcoin and sent to your Bitcoin wallet so you can very easily incorporate this as part of your everyday life now here's another thing I'm going to try and show this in a way that doesn't cause me a big problem with my finances but

how would it cause you a big problem if someone see something to show the credit card number oh I see so this is a this is a super crypto yeah is a Bitcoin credit card it's a Bitcoin debit card and basically it operates one of the exchanges in the u.s. offers this and there's actually two or three in the u.s. that now offer this kind of service now what's behind this is a Bitcoin wallet so I don't have dollars in this I have

coin in this but when I went to the coffee shop where I got this coffee earlier today I swipe this and do they look at you sideways no I mean they can't tell they see a Visa card it says visa on the front right so it's debit fees it doesn't say Bitcoin anywhere and so I make a payment and I get a little message on my phone that says we've debited 0.0002 Bitcoin from your account for your purchase at the coffee shop

so you could even tip them in Bitcoin yes here's where it gets interesting you know I travel all around the world to do these talks in these conferences so I'm constantly on the roads and I've tried again and again with my bank account to tell them listen I travel when are you traveling sir all the time where are you travelling next oh 16 different countries in the next seven months can you just put a note somewhere my account that says do not block his Visa if it shows up somewhere we don't expect because this person travels American Express can do

to my bank can't they simply can't they want me 24 hours before I leave to call them and give them a specific list of places that I'm going to be and when I don't do that when I try to use my card it gets blocked until I come back to the US and talk to them on the phone answer a whole bunch of questions about whether it was really me who bought you know a pastry in Prague or something like that and then that I'll block it and what's happened repeatedly in the last few months is I'll go somewhere

R by card will get blocked because I forgot to tell them and then I'll pull out the Bitcoin card and it works everywhere without fail because it's a prepaid because it's a debit everywhere without fail if I need to move more money into it if I need to take money cash out of an ATM when I'm traveling I can use this and it's so much easier I can simply transfer Bitcoin into that account and 10 minutes later I can withdraw that in cash in any currency in any country you say that with such Glee It's

no Bryce so excited about it till you are it's that you can't hide it but yeah I get it I get excited about these things because it makes it easy for me to use Bitcoin and and yes it's visa and you know the evil empire the banking system etc etc but for many people who are going to experience Bitcoin as an additional currency in their life when they use for online purchases having the flexibility to use both and making it easier and more transparent is how you get to mainstream adoption especially in the

twirled now how would someone get a hold of one of those cards how do you how do they just open an account with an exchange they have to do all of the Patriot act's Bank secrecy act show me id proof of residence etcetera etcetera but in the end they get a Visa card and what exchanges are available for getting Visa debit cards like that like can you name some yeah I'm sure in the u.s. coinbase coinbase.com and bitpay bitpay.com both offer Visa debit cards

in many countries around the world zap oh X APO offer debit card and there's a there's a bunch of others there's a bunch of others interesting that's interesting that's actually very promising because that makes it practical yes so that's one side then a few other things that have happened in this space certainly we have seen a lot of the banking industry realized that they could actually use this technology and not just fear it and you know

I have this and I certainly bring this view of banks as Giants caricatured dinosaur evil things but within them there's just normal people right swept up in the institutional inertia of this beast but there's people who some of them get it they get that this is exciting and interesting and disruptive they want to use it when the banking system and they're trying to work from within to get people interested in this and we're seeing more and more

more of these organizations gradually try to find ways to adopt this technology to streamline and to improve banking itself this is very similar to what we saw in the early 90s when the internet started happening much more mainstream the phone company is at first fought tooth and nail right they fought the service providers tried not to give them access to their lines try not to kick them off the not give them DSL networks at the time

they fought to the FCC they tried to control it and eventually

they all became isps right So eventually jumped on the bandwagon and used it to improve their own infrastructure now if you make a phone call on a regular traditional old phone your phone call is going over the Internet almost 90% sure that it is so they wouldn't let the internet be on the phone network now the entire phone network is on the internet well if flipped that's called infrastructure inversion in the early days of the automobile they wouldn't let automobiles in towns

to because they would disrupt the horses the horse traffic right and they had all kinds of weird laws including an in the UK they passed the law which required someone to run ahead of the car with a red flag called a red flag act that did wonders for the British automobile industry which was 20 years ahead at the time and then wasn't wow that kind of reactionary behavior is very common in new technologies and then infrastructure inversion happens eventually the

was considered impossible the roads would be paved to make automobile travel practical everywhere happened and horses will quite happy to ride on paved roads right whereas for automobiles was almost impossible to use in a rotted muddy Road when you have Ford wheel drive vehicle trying to compete against a forehoof drive animal yeah and in those early days they pointed that that said

look this thing is never going to work Automobiles and never going to happen because you don't have the infrastructure but if you have the need infrastructure happens and we've seen that with with the automobile we sing of the electricity we've seen that with the internet we've seen that with all of these Technologies and now we're going to see it again with money because if you have this technology building the banking institutions on top of this is easy but making Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies making the internet of money

by the rules of the old banking system is almost impossible now I like that expression cryptocurrency yeah and cryptocurrencies what is to stop Banks from creating their own cryptocurrency and what mean what is so wonderful about Bitcoin in comparison to other cryptocurrencies now that's a great question there's nothing to stop them in fact they're already doing it there are yes first of all you've got to realize there's more than a thousand crew

so currencies already a thousand yes more than a thousand was the worst one what's the one we should avoid that that list is almost 900 long that stock yeah I mean it's a long tail right there's a couple that are interesting that offer different perspectives but we're seeing a lot of private institutions interested in creating their own and there's nothing stopping them from doing that but they have to make a fundamental choice they can

either create some things that is controlled contained with specific outlines and borders with controlled access permissioned accesses they would call it and that by definition is not Global it can't be Global it has to be contained within a specific jurisdiction because that's how they're they operate both corporations and banks operate within specific jurisdictions so they can do that but then it has to be

opposed to Innovation close to permission and not Global and transnational and so what Bitcoin has and not just Bitcoin but any public open cryptocurrency of a global nature like Bitcoin is that you don't need to ask permission to join you don't need to ask permission to innovate you don't need to ask permission to create a new application and any application you're right will instantaneously work anywhere in the world to anyone without permission that's the magic of

and if you think about it that's also the magic of the internet that's why the internet has been successful because it allows anyone to join without permission connect to any application or service they want write an application and launch it globally without asking the phone company if they're allowed to do that there's no one to ask permission from and to extend that analogy they also tried to build private internet

and they're still trying CompuServe AOL Prodigy and the early closed networks that have their own content that you could connect to that weren't part of the internet and then after that corporate intranets have you heard of the intranet term right so when you have an internal Network within a company that has stale content crappy applications and doesn't talk to the rest of the world and it's behind firewalls that's an intranet intra and

craw and they've built those and they sometimes serve very useful purposes but they're not the internet and you can't scale them and make them secure and make them useful enough so essentially that would exactly be what would happen with money if local banks or National Banks yes so to follow from the title The Internet of money is a very powerful expression because it really explains what this is this is the internet of money which means

means it's open borderless Global and requires no permission to participate and people will try to create the intranet of money and it will have all of the limitations that the traditional banking system has hmm so yes they can come along and do that and the nice thing is that people don't have to make a choice to use one or the other

the only system of Monopoly we have is that you have to use the national currency of the country you were born in and you live in in order to pay the government of that country other than that you're free to use any currency you want anywhere some of us are free many of us are not and Bitcoin fits into that model it's the if you want to use it for this particular use use it well if you extrapolate where all this stuff is going if you look at I mean if you're correct

and if over the next 20 years Bitcoin really does emerge as not just an acceptable currency worldwide but it's right up there with everything else and maybe even preferred by a lot of people that are in the know or tech savvy or what have you if that really does take place it's going to slowly but surely erode a lot of the major problems that we have with society today as far as this government having massive

lots of control over the economy and the bank's being the ones who sort of enforce the kind of laws that have allowed the mortgage crisis has and allowed these bubbles to occur and also to fund and help fund the politicians that enable them to keep these laws in place I mean all that sort of is a lot of that is because of power a lot of that power is going to go away

if something like cryptocurrencies emerge as being the predominant way that we use in exchange money that's the optimistic way to look at it yeah the less optimistic way to look at it is that over the next decade we are going to gradually move into a cashless digital money Society

what kind of doing that now with like apple we are doing that already and there are some countries that are completely cashless really where there are very close to completely cashless the ironically one of the one of the countries that has a very high degree of digital money is Kenya because of m-pesa which is the mobile money they have which is now taken over a significant percentage of the GDP real we're also seeing in Scandinavian countries now cash has less than I think

less than 8% of of the productive use of money and whether using credit cards is what you're saying I credit debit Mobile Pay I wouldn't what is Kenya's em pay what is that and paste that is text messaging text message money yeah it's money you can send through SMS it started off as basically people exchanging minutes Mobile minutes that we're transferable by SMS and they started using it as currency and then eventually it became officially

a corresponding currency to the Kenyan PESA and now is the predominant currency its yeah in most places from what I understand I haven't been to Kenya but I've talked to a lot of Kenyans who tell me yeah we all use that and only that we don't use cash we don't use credit cards wow it is kind of shocking but here's the problem the problem is we are going to a digital currency Society where cash will be gradually eradicated either through non Hughes or

a lot of countries and a lot of governments are trying to actively ban it so they're putting limits on how much you can use cash say you know a thousand dollars and if it's more than a thousand dollars using caches illegal when we go to the society we have to really think about the implications do we want a society in which are digital money is under complete surveillance and complete control where if you go to the wrong protest or if you support the wrong political

call campaign or if you make a payment to the wrong person or receive money from the wrong person suddenly your money disappears it's no longer yours anymore its frozen it's seized it's gone and someone has control of that corporations Banks governments and in most cases there is no difference between Corporation bank and governments right and so that's one scenario and the other scenario is one in which individuals control their money and

it is digital money but it's digital cash like Bitcoin where you can pay an individual from one person to another just like I can with cash today without any other party getting involved what really strikes me as amazing is that we've gotten used to this idea so quickly which is that we no longer pay people we no longer pay people directly the less we use cash the more we pay people through a corporation right

so from tipping Your Valet to tipping your taxi driver to tipping wherever tipping is pretty much the last remaining part of our society where cash is used to pay from one person who is not an incorporated entity to another person who is not an incorporated entity everything else you have to pay through a corporation whether it's a bank right whether it's venmo whether it's PayPal whether it's any of those things and we've gradually got on you

to this environment where we can't pay another person unless there's a corporation involved

and that's astonishing to me and as cash disappear is that then becomes a final fact that every single payment in your life will be from you to a corporation and the corporation takes a piece of that every single thing and not just that it doesn't just take a piece that also controls and serve ales and monitors you are use and if you violate the terms and conditions you are destitute wow so our so the issue is not what we have today first

is the digital currency of the future or Bitcoin or whatever it's both Futures are digital currency and in both Future's cash will no longer exist that is inevitable we are going down that road and now we have to choose do we go to the digital cashless Society of corporate control over money with the complete and total merging of corporates and state money

where instead of having separation of state and money you have the merging of states and money and Corporation and money where your money is branded money you have Chase dollars you have Goldman Sachs dollars you have Coca-Cola dollars right you have money that is controlled by a corporation or do we go down the other future where we have money that is basically an Internet Protocol that is completely Global that any person can pay any person they meet in the street

without any corporations getting involved just for me to you digital cash and that's really the it's a less optimistic view because I'm fully aware of what the other future is and it's already playing out and it is a very in my opinion a very dangerous future this is so fascinating to me because it's so speculative and I love when you don't know what's going to happen and someone presents a bunch of different scenarios and you get the mind starts to wander and then you also sort of plan for the future

mature like it becomes like something to it almost become something to look forward to or bet on you know like boy I bet it's gonna work like this or I bet you because we really don't know what I mean and what is the resistance that Bitcoin is facing from standard financial institutions that are in control right now because there must be some form of of resistance and is there any fuckery involved like is there any sabotaging of Bitcoin that has been suspected

it or prove it I think I don't really know if there's any sabotaging going on so that's that's a that's a claim spected I'm not going to make any any claims okay just wink at me tell me what to say well what I'm going to talk about is the progression of what happens when a giant well established financial institutions been around for 50 years or a hundred years is faced with a disruptor that they cannot tap down that they can

not shut down Sue by co-opted eradicate band legislates against right and what happens then is what I call the five stages of grief

first we start with denial so and we saw this play out exactly like this with a banking industry the first reaction was denial Bitcoin can't possibly work it's not real money it doesn't really exist it has no value it will never survive fast forward five here's you keep making that argument to becomes less and less credible because it's not real money yet the big metal bird that brought me to Los Angeles today

was paid with not money so you can claim it's not money all day long and I've been living on it for three years which kind of undermines the argument right if I earn it and I spend it in people give me rides and big metal Birds it's money so that isn't working it's going to go away on its own it's going to die it's going to lose all its value every time it dumps in value they cheer as like finally Bitcoin is dead they right

another obituary we publish them on bitcoin obituaries.com to make fun of them later now has a hundred and ten obituaries I think published every time they say will die which is every two months again denial only works for a while then they go into anger it's the money of terrorists criminals pedophiles pornographers and the unsavory elements of this world but if I'll that's always the the one they pull out right now they love to use that one yeah if they find one big pile

on pedophile uses Bitcoin pedophile currency yeah exactly dirty trick it is a bit of a it is a bit of a dirty trick and they've tried to do this again and again and again they did it with the internet right the internet when it first came out they you heard this media narrative the it sells papers it sell it didn't sell clicks at the time because it would doing it's about the internet but it sells papers which is the idea that the internet is a

a Haven of crooks and fraudsters and terrorists and pedophiles and pornographers great yes criminal use advanced technology criminal use the most advanced technology they can get their hands on because they're in a very highly competitive high margin high risk business and of course they're going to say they criminals wear shoes to run away from bank heist criminals drive cars to get away from brought bank robberies they use cell phones to coordinate with each other they drink water so as not to die of dehydration

we're not going to ban all of those things right and so you have that anger and they tried that for a while every time they try that you just turn around and say oh well you know actually the biggest money launderers of drugs in the world are HSBC the Hong Kong Hong Kong Shanghai banking Consortium inconvenient fact is a residence laundry in the world yes they would call to model your

laundering 700 billion dollars for the Sinaloa cartel over a period of 10 years during which 19,000 people died in Mexico as a direct result of that and they got a fine and no one went to jail so you know there are inconvenient facts like that every time they say Bitcoin funds terrorism you say I see them driving Toyota's and Humvees right that doesn't that's a bit in congruence like there

are driving around in the vehicles we left behind and there they got a lot of their funding from pallets of money that we left behind and they're getting paid $4 in dollars for oil that they're selling to our closest allies we shouldn't really mention Saudi Arabia so these are the inconvenient truths right so you don't talk about these in polite company or at least you do like that's what I said when I was invited to the to speak in front of the Senate and can

Ida and they started asking me about terrorism and I said that actually mostly funded by our allies and what did they say when you do that that was the end of that train of thought they stopped you know it was live click TV but what what like what went down when we moved on to talk about more realistic and interesting things in a much more positive view of what this thing is so they try to discredit bitcoin by attaching it to terrorism and you inform them of The Facts of where terrorists are actually funded from yes in a very public forum on live TV

she's very difficult to continue that line of conversation so that's anger is there resistance in Canada like there is in the United States or no actually they've been very very positive very positive to towards towards cryptocurrencies in general yeah interesting and there's a lot of development going on there isn't that much resistance in the United States really the banks are shutting down bank accounts in some cases we've seen that in the United Kingdom to

what is the right now like what's the percentage of people that are using Bitcoin on a regular basis

it's very difficult to say primarily because there is no clear association between one person in one Bitcoin address or a cat there is no account right to use Bitcoin all you have to do is download an application on your phone nobody you don't have to register anything and so as a result it's just like how many IP addresses are in use does that tell you anything about how many people are using the internet you can't really tell that's a good thing it's because of its nature

I would say we're probably looking at about two to four million users based on it's very interesting based on activity levels based on logins to websites that some of them the published results it's very hard to say for sure exactly how many mostly concentrated in the u.s. at the moment so it's a plus or minus 1% somewhere in the range of 1 percent of of the United States population although this is globally globally yeah globally globally maybe two two

four million people you said most of them are in the United States most amazing United States many of them are also in China so there's four million it is possible that's one percent of America maybe yes yes yes maybe half a percent yeah something like that that's interesting that's a lot but what is happening is its doubling every year in terms of transaction volume transaction amounts number of everything is doubling every year and that's that's the kind of characteristic curve you see in disruptive Technologies being adopted and that's a very promising career

what is the Tipping Point like what needs to happen is there anything that needs to happen for for a widespread adoption you've got a need it it's got to be ready and it's got to be easy to use and so right now it's not easy to use it's not ready for Mass adoption and in many parts of the developed world we don't really need it so in order to make it something we need either

sir what we already have has to not work so well this is what's happening in the developing world where you have banking crisis which drives people into a safe haven or you invent applications that couldn't be done before self-driving car that you pay by the mile automatically as you're driving along a micro payments industry for paying for Content directly The Internet of Things where devices can

services online automatically things that you can't do with credit cards I think if you start seeing applications like that to merge and I'm very confident they're coming because we're seeing the Innovation behind them then you can make it something that is more needed even in the developed world

so what what do you think could be done to sort of further this along or to accelerate this is there anything that can be done as I said I think the third ingredient is making it easier for people to use and that's a matter of innovation and maturity and we doing that I mean that's already happening other than that it's just a matter of time we just have to wait and be patient until it happens what could be like the steps that could be taken to make something like Bitcoin easier to use well there's a lot of things to do

our interfaces design security making backup easy providing infrastructure Services exchanges your paycheck your ATM Services your debit card services merchant services things like that one of the examples I like to use is I got on the internet in 1989 I sent my first emails shortly thereafter about 1990

in order to send my first email I had to have Unix command-line skills a login into a Unix Mainframe with access to an internet connection at an academic institution and then I worked very hard for about two days to get the software working and then eventually I sent an email that it took a couple of days to cross the internet ha ha ha right and then almost exactly 20 years later my mom went swipe

and did the same thing on her iPad so when you take you know two days of compiling software writing complex unix commands sending an email and takes a while to get across the internet and then 20 years later that's down to swipe when we can take Bitcoin from after install a wallet understand what it is the QR code of the Bitcoin address and how do I back it up and secure it etcetera and you turn that into swipe then we'll be ready but there is there a vast difference though between

in something like email which is not just a disruptive technology but a completely new innovation the ability to send things wirelessly through the air or even wired like electronic mail did not exist but but measure sitting right but male did I mean it makes a change in the medium essentially you're doing correspondence but it's so much easier and more convenient whereas like using a credit card right now is fairly convenient for gessle online banking fairly convenient for people

who have credit cards yeah so that now that's that's where the numbers really benefit Bitcoin because we're in the age of the internet and instead of economic inclusion becoming greater instead of more people around the world having ready access to these Technologies we're seeing entire countries getting cut off from economic inclusion the banking system is not expanding as fast to reach these populations and there's this vast Gap left and this Gap is several billion people and into that Gap you can fit anywhere

who has access to even a rudimentary feature phone or smartphone with a very basic level of data service so the level at which you need to have technology in order to for someone to adopt Bitcoin and immediately become in themselves a global bank in the back pocket of their pants compared to the level that you would need to reach before JPMorgan Chase built

to Branch within their area and offer them Services after going through a very careful verification of their identity and blah blah blah blah blah that's never going to happen so we're going to get to leapfrogging effect just like in many places in Africa the first leapfrogging event we saw the was no to the pain on people wrote books about this is the fact that in many places in Africa landlines were never deployed

because the the difficulty to actually extend landlines was so high that when cell phones came along at some point it became easier to just go directly to cellphones and bypass that entire generation of Technology right so we're expecting and I certainly see it as very possible to see leapfrogging in economic inclusion the ability for people to join the internet of money long before they ever see a bank the end result is it's not just about

out banking the unbanked it's about the banking all of us banking is an application you don't need an institution you just need an application and that that transition is pretty powerful is there any concern that people would take people's phones and hold them at gunpoint and just steal all their Bitcoin look if that's all you own if you have a wallet and that while it is all you own if you're on bitcoin 20 years from now whatever it is and that's your entire Financial portfolio existing

your phone and someone can come along and forced you at gunpoint to transfer that over their phone and then they take off in the night yeah well first of all already today you wouldn't keep your entire Financial portfolio on your phone I certainly don't there are a number of very convenient and easy to use devices that allow you to store your Bitcoins securely on an offline device I have a couple of my bag I might show them to you later which which align you might but you might not mean if you want the show

you know you might just okay let's see the way he said it looks like was

it's like teasing me

this is it for people at home that are listening this you like I don't know what to make of this

I don't I don't want to get wrapped up in the headphone cord and whoa what is that so this is a device that a lot of people in Bitcoin are familiar with can we see that yeah so this is called a Bitcoin Tresor that looks like one of those things those old ladies press when they fall down yes I have fallen and I can't get up yes it's a bit different so this is a USB device I can connect it to my computer can I say it yes please

I have all your money now so I feel weird but you don't have all my money you have got it so I have a I have a backup of that device and this is where what I mentioned before is this 1224 word backups that I have which means that if I lose that device I can recreate it on my backup device which I'm carrying here already second one I have a second one actually have four of these and you can transfer that 24 word seed to any device you want

and it will immediately have access to all of your money and render this null yes well I mean it won't render this one now because it can coexist on all of them but that one has a PIN number and a pass phrase that you have to put in if you would not be able to break into that device I could yeah maybe most people can't I'm good at that shit dude yeah excellent

but is it possible that someone could figure out a way to crack your 24 word code no I mean no no you say that man don't say that online I say that fucking hackers man they take that shit as a challenge well never say you can't hack me here's the thing Bitcoin in itself is the world's largest bug Bounty and this is something that most people haven't realized but Bounty a bug Bounty is when a manufacturer of us

piece of software for example puts out a bun thit Bounty and says I'll give you $10,000 if you find a bug in my software that someone could exploit to break my software Apple does bug bounties Google does bug bounties a lot of companies do these bug bounties it's very wise and it's great because what they do is that way they find these they have professional hackers really who go in and break the software and it's legal they do things perfectly Mouse yeah but another way to look at this is the Bitcoin has 10 to 12 billion dollar

rows of market capitalization behind it and if you can find a way to break say my 24 word seed you have access to my money so my money is the Bounty that sitting behind that bug and this means that Bitcoin is being tested and has been tested every single day of its seven-year existence with an ever-increasing jackpot at the end of it which is why you see Bitcoin exchanges when they don't do good security they get hacked and whoever

ex them gets the Bounty but Bitcoin itself which has the biggest Bounty of them all remains secure and the reason it remains secure is not magical it's about spreading out the risk in such a way that there is no single point you can put your thumb on an attack so anyway this little device these types of devices there are ones that have a fingerprint scanner on them that are easy to use there are they come in various form factors we call these Hardware wall

lights and what's interesting about this is that the Bitcoin Keys the control my Bitcoin are created on this device they remain on this device and this device signs transactions which means I can take it and I can plug it into this laptop and if this laptop is compromised I don't care it will not be able to compromise this I can take this and I can plug it in to the you know those desktops they have and hotel lobbies

where you can print your boarding pass okay consider that the Cesspool of computing you go there that thing has 25 different viruses fighting for dominance right once you plug in a device they start tearing each other apart trying to get to your device I can plug this in there and make a Bitcoin transaction and not have to worry about that because the keys stay on here mmm right and no one can figure out a virus for one of those

well that's the thing this is designed specifically to have a very very narrow well-defined interface so the only thing you can send to it is a Bitcoin transaction and then displays that Bitcoin transaction on the screen and I can decide is that who I actually wanted to pay yes confirm and then I paid them and nobody else is it impossible to integrate a virus into a Bitcoin transaction happening code messages and certain software like wasn't that what Al-Qaeda was doing well they were sending pictures

here's an inside the actual Digital Image the ones and zeros there were encoding actual information you could read you can embed data on the difference is you can't execute that data because this thing will not execute the data receives in the transaction it simply runs a finger print function on it and signs it so yes the point of this is that Amy is incredulous look at them yeah seems like it's you

you're setting a rule that's going to be broken in a month like yeah I can't do it today but next week we figured it out and now we're well I you know I've had this device now for three years this is one of the first editions I can't I keep my Bitcoin on there and I haven't had a problem yet I don't put my money on the exchanges I keep it on devices like this which is why I haven't had my money stolen the point of this is not to make it more

we're secure although it does it's to make security easy for someone who's not technical I could create a whole elaborate system as a security expert to secure my Bitcoins that was never a problem the point of this device is that you can secure your Bitcoin my mom can secure her Bitcoin Without Really knowing how but just simply following how this works so it takes security packages it's in a device and simplifies it dramatically that kind of thing here's the other

other question you asked me well happens if someone points a gun at you right we call that the $5 wrench solution it's like should we build a 10,000 super it's from a cartoon by Randall Munroe and XKCD says shall we build a 10,000 supercomputer to crack his encryption know here's a $5 wrench just beat him until he tells you what the password is so

resistance to that is difficult but one of the things that these devices have and other systems in Bitcoin have is duress passwords so you can put a small amount of Bitcoin in a specific account that opens with a different password and so you shouldn't have said that no people no they see the motherfucker you gave me the duress password yeah but they don't know which one is which and this is a well-known technique and we actually recommend using that as part of listen when

go to a country where security isn't as good right I carry my cash in a money belt or leave it back at the hotel in a safe but I also carry a bundle of notes high-value notes like the equivalent of say $50 here in the United States in my front pocket and if somebody comes at me pulls out a knife and says give me your money I will hand them my phone the throwaway

- I have in my front pocket and I will walk away from that listen to this podcast they're going to know this motherfucker has a belt and that's where all the real loot is there you go that's it so I mean this is something a lot of people do right yeah I'm sure and that's why robbers are aware of it

yeah but for the most part they'll take the cash that you hand them and run away probably yeah yeah I can't help thinking like although these little devices that you're storing your Bitcoin on look elegant in 2016 I can't help thinking that they're just going to be like those Gordon Gekko giant brick phones when he was walking around the beach looking like a pimp from Wall Street remember that movie they are that like he's holding that big ass break our that they are that people will be watching the show a decade from now laughing at those the laughing at those

and that's fine because guess what I just found a photo yesterday I was looking through some of my files I just found a photo of me yes thank you mmm look at them like a pimp with that big stupid phone I found a photo of me on the beach from 1991 with a leather side carrier with one of those in that holster right one of those brick phones this is I think the second generation Motorola just about this big that gonna like ruin your

hip like all that weight look at that yeah I was I was I was a sophomore in college it's like 1991 first cell phone so just come out I'm in computer science I'm a geek I love gadgets so I go by one of the first cell phones cost me an arm and a leg I paid like five dollars a minute to make calls on it's like $2,000 right right there I think I paid something like 750 pound sterling of the time is probably about a thousand bucks for a

like this the who's battery lasted an hour batteries just so terrible got a fantastic photo of me with a leather holster with that strategy I said I look so cool can I see it no I don't have it with me you don't really have a physical photo somewhere I actually found the physical but I haven't digitize them yet but when you do please send it my way I will absolutely was straight up on Instagram I also have poofy hair in the front and I'm wearing a ridiculous shirt

you're pimping 1991 your straight 90 nature a pathology yeah exactly yeah I understand so yeah it will look ridiculous but the point that you make so well is that we did go from Gordon Gekko to the Nexus 5 right and and we're going to do that again in the Bitcoin technology this isn't something that standing still the amount of innovation that's happening today even though it's not mainstream yet is staggering I work in the space

all time all I do is read about what is new in Bitcoin and that's a full-time job how many people are there like you are you the only one like this no no absolutely not the only one who's this integrated no absolutely not there's a bunch of people like you yeah there's probably about a thousand people like you who are doing this yeah who are living off Bitcoin constantly investigating Bitcoin reading about it all the time lecturing and writing books about Bitcoin well not so many lecturing and writing books about

towards speaking at conferences but there's hunt a hundred to two hundred who are doing that too yes hundred to two hundred yeah maybe you should talk to the other hundred ninety-nine maybe they make better guests oh you're crazy how dare you know I there's I'm not claiming any special mantle here there's lots of people who are very much into it as I am and it is a full time job and because so much is happening so yes you're right these devices will seem Antiquated what this shows however is that when I came on the show

the first time I think about three years ago I didn't yet have one of these and I used to store my Bitcoin what was called a paper wallet which is basically where I print out the digital keys with a convoluted process to make sure my computer that's doing the printing isn't compromised because then they're compromised and then send the money to those digital keys and then put those in a vault in a safe deposit box in a safe yeah and that worked great

for two years I kept a small amount of Bitcoin safe that way problem is it took a lot of expertise to execute on that and there are many ways to get it wrong so we've progressed now the way you back this up as you write down 24 English words like how hard is that that it shows to you one at a time on the screen and it tells you write them down it runs with software in a website which has really three or four buttons it's fairly easy to use the device itself

elf has two buttons I could probably teach my mom how to use this and she owns Bitcoin so that would be useful but and she owns one of these but it's still not ready she probably only use it when you're around yeah no she doesn't use it and razors coming over get out my little goofy fucking Bitcoin thing let me pretend I use this she wouldn't humor me that way no no

so the bottom line is that five years from now this is going to be even simpler and we keep iterating and maturing of Technology it's not standing still and as it gets easier and easier more people come on board not only are they able to use Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies but they're able to do it with security in a way that doesn't require an enormous amount of expertise and this is the same this happened with the internet I remember this fantastic show you see a

1994 and they've got Good Morning America and there's this clip from the outtakes they're doing before they're doing this big internet story and they have the host chatting amongst themselves before they start Story one of them saying so what is the internet is that the email no no no no that's just email so the at sign is the internet no no no the at sign is email it's the www that's that's internet and.com that's internet

and it's going through this process where they're trying to grasp this alien and strange seeming technology and all of the terminology is weird let's play this as I was doing that little tease for the mark with the A and then the ring around it at so that's what I said hmm Katie said she thought it was about yeah oh but I've never heard around I've never heard it said it said

it sounded stupid what I said it violence at NBC violence at NBC GE come I mean what Alison should know what is the internet anyway internet is that massive computer network the one that's becoming really big now what do you mean that's probably a how does want to know what do you write to it like male know a lot of people use it and communicate its I guess they can communicate with NBC writers and producers Alice

can you explain what internet is anything in 10 seconds or less Allison will be in the studio shortly what is what is the name

Oh I thought you're gonna tell us what this was a good look at the digital Billboards it's not a it's a computer billboard but it's great wine it's several universities and everything all joined together right and others can access it right getting bigger and bigger role in really handy during the Quake a lot of people that's how they were communicating out just how family and loved ones they were okay because all the phone lines were down I was telling Katie and I began to meet you don't need that you don't need a phone line to operate now

so if you show this that's awesome if you show this to Millennial right now they're like 94 that was just before the Civil War right yeah so this is 18 is it 1894 slavery was legal right they had PC then people back then it's like they can't even conceive of a time when the internet was just so completely impossible to understand I feel very fortunate that I grew up without it and got to experience it my twenties bright that is experienced

merge and I was a whoa what is this but it didn't really have the same sort of impact you know on my life that it has on the lives of young people today that are growing up with it we're right there I mean you look at kids today you go to a store or go to the mall or something like that go to a restaurant they're fucking glue to their phone they're glued all right yeah here comes the prediction this generation which is growing up right now they never know world without internet

they also never know a world without Bitcoin I don't dare you now 15 to 18 years from now none of them are going to get the driver's license huh because there will be no self-driving cars I need one and with no live in Montana I think ours a fucking Montana where I could drive my own goddamn car it was a hobby a hobby it will be a hobby and you'll pay $3,000 a month and insurance to drive your own car how much I think you'll see that's where it's going to go come on I don't know humans behind

wheel Grandpa that's our re saying I wasn't dollars a month didn't so you're going to be telling your grandchildren yeah we used to drive our own cars and say that sounds crazy did hundreds of thousands of people die every year yeah yeah but we live like men yes we didn't live sucking this digital dick like all these other pussies out there yeah there you go but think about it this way imagine a child born today that never sees cash yeah I mean let's take travel to another country

where they're backwards and they still use paper as money right now it's entirely possible so what seems inconceivable to us then becomes the norm then it becomes inconceivable to live without it right and then you're trying to explain you know so what consensus algorithm did the Federal Reserve use so it's used the 12 white dudes decide for you consensus is what is it

proof-of-work algorithm no no Johnny it was a proof of War algorithm backed by oil I am happy you exist I love having you on the show I love talking to I love the fact that you have this beautiful vision of digital currency and if it worked and if you're correct and it all pans out I think it's going to be amazing I love that you know so much about it I loved you come on here and educate us I love that every time you come on there really does seem to be more and more progress

regress it is tangible it's trackable it's interesting and it's fascinating and I'm all-in I'm on team Bitcoin I'm a hundred percent committed I really wanted to happen but it's just one of those things man it's just entirely fascinating and until it absolutely is here like credit cards like the car like all the other things you were describing that really didn't exist before and now exists almost primarily I mean I think

it's it's absolutely amazing and fascinating and again in a lot of ways it's a solution for the control that the federal government the Federal Reserve the banks and even politicians have over us today that conduct control is slowly being eroded by the internet not even slowly pretty rapidly being eroded by the internet even whatever control politicians used to have it's not nearly

as it's not nearly as easy to hide it's so much more transparent it's so much easier to protest today it's just a different realm we're living in a different world and that world is happening incredibly rapidly from I got on in 1994 you were on before then when it was like this really fragile strange internet and when you were in the early days I'm really fascinated to see what it's going to be like 20 years from now and I really do hope you're right well that's one of the

awful things about this is I think if you've experienced things like this before and we're very lucky to be part of a generation where we have advancements in technology happening at a rate where you don't just see one or two but you see several in a Lifetime right that are pretty earth-shattering in their complexity and involvement we've seen the internet we've seen social media we seen the miniaturization of computers now we're going to see

see self-driving cars and digital currencies and all of these other things in a single lifetime once you've seen two or three of these you start capturing the pattern and the pattern is when it starts everybody ignores it makes fun of it can't possibly see how change would happen right and this happened with the automobile that happened with electricity it happens with credit cards the first time credit cards were introduced nobody thought they were going to

is a crazy stupid experiment nobody wanted to take them this happens with every type of Technology it's ridiculed at first and then gradually it matures it gets less cumbersome to use and if it has some some fundamental properties some utility something it's useful for that's different that's new that you can do things with it you couldn't do before then at some point it hits an inflection point and it becomes mainstream very very rapidly and then

everybody is both surprised and at the same time claims ownership and say well I always thought that this Bitcoin thing would succeed well let's hope where those people this book is available right now the internet of money where can people get it other than some funky exchange and some dark web corner of the world where can people get this yeah so this is available on an obscure site called Amazon top that fucking one yes it's also available it's going to book

book sellers worldwide and Amazon worldwide it's available on Kindle Kindle unlimited Kindle lending library if you buy the print you get the Kindle version for free it's available for sale for Bitcoin and yeah it's out now actually it doesn't have any pictures in it what's up with it does not have any pictures in it I have a giveaway for five copies of the Kindle edition and five copies of the print edition people don't have to purchase anything they sign up they

follow me on Twitter and they have a one in a hundred chance of winning a free book so if they want to try that Jamie here has the links maybe they can go in the show notes and people can try and get that giveaway is there something you could say over the air that can be on that I'll put in the info on YouTube info on YouTube okay all right folks thank you very much Andreas it's always a pleasure to talk to you I hope you're right I really do and the internet of money is available right now yes right now I have copied number

you fucks right here in my greasy hands thank you sir always a pleasure thanks for having me thank you everybody for tuning in to the podcast and thank you to caveman coffee I'm drinking a caveman coffee Nitro I think you might have noticed today but I didn't clear my throat ladies and gentlemen I know that shit's annoying to you and because of that I have sworn off all coffee except for cave band Nitro actually I did have some in the middle but my throat was already warmed up I think it's like when I just start talking like

when I just start talking fresh like sit down you know I come here from the gym or whatever and I'm not my voice isn't totally heated up and warmed up does that make sense then that butter coffee just sort of coats the inside of my mouth and I ask too much not a problem with caveman coffee nitro+ you just get jacked on this stuff it's 270 milligrams of caffeine kbank off is just excellent delicious coffee single Source single families

go origin caveman coffee co.com go there use the code word Rogan and save 10% we are also brought to you by acorns round off your purchases to the nearest dollar and invest sign up go to acorns.com forward slash Rogen and you will receive five dollars when you make your first investment that's acorns.com / Rogan we are also brought to you by

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draftkings.com that's draftkings.com draftkings.com and use a codeword Rogan to play for free eligibility restrictions May apply see website for details mmm that's it goddamn ladies and gentlemen we got a lot coming up a lot of stuff happening again October 21st my Netflix special premieres next week it's a star-studded lineup ladies and gentlemen we

have Dwayne bang Ludwick with Bas Rutten end TJ Dillashaw all together on one podcast the fucking MMA universe may explode and will be recapping and going over I'm sure this weekend's UFC heavyweight championship which will be off the fucking charts that's excuse me yeah October 10 September 10th a fucking date is September 10

with which is two days from tomorrow yes

hmm it's where we're putting it about three days from today it's like an idiot

Bang Ludwig again and Bas Rutten and TJ Dillashaw all together that's three fucking Champions on Monday Michael Shermer Returns on Wednesday the 14th and Dan Carlin from Hardcore History perhaps my all-time favorite podcast he will be here on September 15th which is Thursday oh yeah bitches I got a lot more coming to oh wait so enjoy

way thank you so much for tuning in appreciate the fuck out of you guys enjoy your weekend enjoy your life enjoy your family and your friends and your loved ones and why my tongue just live thank you love you bye