#1399 - Pavel Tsatsouline

Dec 12, 2019

Pavel Tsatsouline, is the Chairman of StrongFirst, Inc., a fitness instructor who has introduced SPETSNAZ training techniques from the former Soviet Union to US Navy SEALs, Marines and Army Special Forces, and shortly thereafter to the American public.

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today's about us that sounds like sounds like something someone was saying rom-com right probably all right my guest today it's an honor to talk to this man I wanted to have him on the podcast for quite a while I've been a big fan of his work from enter the Kettlebell I think was his first first thing that he put out he's had a bunch of great books and great instructional videos on the use of a kettlebell and he's thought of as the Godfather of Russian cat

else in the United States like certainly one of the most most prominent proponents of the kettlebells and most knowledgeable as well please give it up for the great Pavel Tatooine The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day go Rogan podcast by night

all right here we go what's up man can we do a great to be a show it's a pleasure it's a pleasure to meet you and honor I've been following your work for a long time and I mean I was first introduced to you and your methods by Steve Maxwell who was you know a huge proponent of the Kettlebell and then I started getting into your very serious yeah very good and I started getting in your videos and I've read your books and so I think it's an honor

my pleasure how long have you been teaching and practicing with kettlebells

since you're a little sound like that Medium citrulline is kind of like baseball you know he's pretty common in Russia and the Soviet Union yeah it is Why didn't it catch on here until you came over here

you know what I don't think people really tried I don't think people really understood that which catch on and I did not think it would happen either so I'm sitting with my friend Marty Gallagher having Stakes years back Morty is a former coach for bar lifting Team USA and coach of some top lifters and you were just trading old War Stories time talking about stuff and I told about kettlebells and says well you've got to teach Americans how to do that I said Marty you don't understand the stuff is too hard nobody's going to want

do this and he said you don't understand people want to do this and I wrote an article for based on Morty suggestion for Milo so Milo was a publication Niche publication for strange guys who lift rocks and been things and break things and so on and so forth and so that was the start of it and after that I told my publisher about it and he said well come on let's just make a little buzz and teach people I

I told him the same thing you don't understand that people will not want to do this this is too hard and but he convinced me and they convinced me and the rest is history why did you think that it was popular in the Soviet Union but wouldn't be popular in America

you know this is something that you just see is very common thing to do so you just see this you don't think much about this who knows

yeah but it was popular over there yeah and since at least since and least Seventeen hundreds or possibly before that but this country is so performance oriented and so Sports oriented and so competitive why wouldn't you think that that would be sort of a natural training modality that would it would immediately adopt it you got me there so you just as fun in the u.s. some years back decades before there's some some kettlebells were used by some old-time strong men like Zig Klein for

and there was a company named Milo no relations to the magazine really welcome bought a hundred years some with Milo why from IO mile is the guy who carried the calf

so he would go up if you look okay the progressive overload is usually explained as this Legend of Milo of Croton Ona so this guy started carrying a little calf and his shoulders and he would carry the calf every day so the cap would grow and eventually guy became very strong so that's why that name is present in in the strength game so back then today it is it just one of the finest Publications on strength training mostly Nish things

like gripping what if anyone's actually done that like carry a cow not to work it would not with that isn't it amazing that something can grow physically faster than you can keep lifting it absolutely can but you know your typical training plan that people say I'm going to add five pounds to my bench press today I'm going to do this every week and that by Christmas I'll be the world champion and I just doesn't work so the rate of adaptation is such that your body just cannot do that and it's cyclical in nature as you have

to do put it in the Milo terms you have to after you carry the calf for a while it grows you have to back off to a wider calf

and start you know start building up again why we do not know exactly so for some reason that unidirectional adaptation just in one noodle we're getting stronger at the bench press or what have you or it carrying the calf it just cannot proceed in definitely there's some fatigue of some endocrine mechanisms some genetic mechanisms we do not know that but tactically we do have tricks of the trade to beat that door

around that and there's a number of ways of doing that

the oldest way of doing that and it's very smart still very smart for a lot of people they would call this I think possibly constant weight training or something like that but the Soviets described it a step loading so let's look at your typical

let's look at your typical beginner somebody in the gym and so the person starts lifting whatever weight for whatever reps and the next week let's say next week he has five pounds and he does it again he does it again

while the Soviets figured out it is much better for him to stay at the same weight for several weeks and then make it bigger jump hmm so what you're doing pretty much is you are the making that updations more stable and it just happens in the cellar levels membranes become stronger and so on but Old-Timers just they would say that you are solidifying the gains so the way the many Old-Timers trained

is they were just digging the same weight and the staying with the same weight for a long time in the beginning it's challenging let it becomes kind of comfortable that becomes almost easy and that would jump up so that just one way of doing it and today it's not unprecedented either if you look at Carissa Moore he's gymnastics coach used that was gymnast it's very common I use that tactic with my latest edition of my kettlebell simple and Sinister because it's much more reliable

then just Progressive overload and also because psychologically

first of all those weeds out the impatient people

so you're told to stay with the same load for a while some people automatically so forget it I cannot do that well I don't want these people for my stuff anyway and seconds are you staying with this weight where these Reps for sometime in the beginning they challenge you and then some time goes by and suddenly they don't anymore so just a very much was a very clear clear sense of accomplishment so this is called Step loading or

using the old timers Old Timers terminology the constant weight training

if you look at the other ways of making progress so another approach is called cycling and cycling so the one that I just described that would really be if we could artificially stop the growth of the calf like okay stop growing mmm for a while which we can but this cycling this is where I mentioned earlier this is where you go back to a lighter calf

so the classic American powerlifting training template this is cycling so the history of cycling is very interesting again what cycling is cycling is in the simplest possible terms you take 12 weeks you start with light weights you build up until you go really heavy and that was the predominant strength training system in the 70s in the 80s and that was the strength system behind the

dominant American power lifting team so lifters like Eddie cone Kirk Kawaski lifters like Don Austin who's or Lamar Gant whose deadlift record still stand decades after the use this classic cycling so the classic cycling you start with the moderate moderately challenging load then you keep proceeding go have your and heavier and heavier that you compete then you start over

and to give you

to give you a very simple tactic that's something that your listeners can use in their training whether they follow the cycling format where they do something else is that Russian scientist discovery that your endocrine system pretty much can take up to two weeks out of four of heavy loading that's just the way it is there are some exceptions if you but forget exceptions generally just two weeks of heavy loading

and if you look at the classic powerlifting Cycles by let's say might have Gallagher so for 4 weeks you do sets of eight four weeks as of five four weeks sets of three and in week 1 you start out with a way that's comfortable

and week to moderately challenging and week 3 you hit your repeat your previous PR for this reps and a week for you such a new PR and then you jump to the next rep count so as you see in this particular template you have two weeks to hard weeks of training out of the month

and that's just one of the many ways of doing that

pardon me I got distracted so I want to tell about the history of cycling yeah so Bill star who is a huge name in the game he he was a former top weightlifter in the United States back in the 60s later on very successful coach strength coach and author the strongest shall survive his book on strength training for football remains one of the best strength training books

and Bill star recalls that

American lifters started getting a whiff of some Russian Paradise programs so was periodization third ization the simplest terms is planning your training according to certain principles to end it because performance so that's just the really kind of a 50,000 level 50,000 foot definition and they did not have their full information about how it was done so they just decided to do exactly that

and that was a very successful very successful person strength training he does not necessarily work for everybody there are some reasons for that mostly because of your sport competition if you're an athlete but it's extremely effective as was shown on the platform

and finally so first we discussed step cycling stop loading which is constant training second we discussed

wave cycling which is just cycling right wave loading and the third one would be the variable loading

variable loading is is extremely unique it's unlike something else so here's how variable loading works

in variable loading you have certain load parameters like for example you will know that your average training weights will be 75 percent of your maximum you will know that you will perform for example 300 squads per month or whatever so these numbers are arrived at experimentally over decades

and what variable loading does

as opposed to the traditional methods traditional Progressive overload is that the jump in volume for example from one training unit to another one day one week one month and so on it's at least 20 percent so the jumps are really high really high the variable loading was developed by Professor kajiwara boeuf who was Olympic weightlifting champion and he was

Premier Sports scientist so he argued that in nature most changes are discrete they're not gradual they're discrete so whatever whatever adapt adaptation take place in your body the same thing whatever happens with many physical process chemical processes and so on so he concluded that training has to be how the variable so you understand what I mean that is it 20% minimal change we call

add that Delta 20 principle

it doesn't mean that's constantly going up that's just not possible he'd goes up and down you just keep sweep lashing so if we use

if we go back to the traditional cycling as an example the traditional cycling so it's a linear build up back up a little linear build up back up a little in contrast variable overload it's is going crazy it's completely insane

in fact this is the entertaining

experience strength coaches and especially people with some sort of a background in mathematics there are able to dissect and analyze training plans from other coaches you can look at a plan you can take an experience powerlifting coach show him a program from another coach and the coach will be able to tell whether this will work or not who this will work for and so on and kind of figure out what figure out what's under the hood right there so

a very clear pattern

variable over low so it's like a photograph it's very clear variable overload if you start analyzing the pattern looking at the program so for example buddy Shaco he's a he's a former coach of Russian national powerlifting to you so he took the Soviet Olympic weightlifting methodology and directly applied it to powerlifting so he's plans have made their way to the west and some lifters

use them very successfully but whenever you try to read this plan and try to make any sense of that he just drives you crazy because you see like okay here's a string here's a pattern is going right here and suddenly he's gone so if traditional cycling's like clear photograph the variable overload makes me think of

remember in Ferris Bueller's Day Off where the kid is looking at so house painting you know want to use their all these dots right there so when you step away you see something you start getting closer just a whole bunch of dots it just disappears so what's the story behind that

so the story is this this method the Soviet Olympic weightlifting method was developed over several decades by a number of coaches by number of scientists so it's a very much a collaborative effort so but I be offers one for sure mid veggie of John Locke a number of others and it was a very big buy it before even dissecting this method let me tell you how successful this method was

you can look up the world that weightlifting records and Olympic weightlifting you hear about all this different record set by this left her that left her and so on and so forth if you few people realize that the international weightlifting Federation has changed the weight classes at two or three times since the 80s and the reason they did that is to erase the drug the record set by the drug

athletes back then of course Jon very happy that as soon as they change the weight classes slipped her stop taking drugs like that so if you look at these records kilo per kilo pound per pound and if you charged them compare them to what they did then to what they do today you will find that while they did catch up and if you weight classes in about half of these classes the records from the 80s still stand

so for example what you de carbón Ian did in 1980 at 80 to kill us he totaled 400 kilos in the snatch and the clean and jerk that's never been done before and you divide by 9 was a wiry guy you wouldn't even take him for a lifter just amazing so first of all the system Still Remains if we're just stick a very large big picture

50,000 foot look at strength there are great many ways of getting strong some of them very good some of the mediocre some very bad but historically in lifting Sports the two systems that have been predominant are the Soviet weightlifting system and the American classic power lifting system from the 70s and 80s okay so that was kind of a long detour to

before tell you why the stuff that they figured out back in 1960s why it matters just to say it still is the best still rules

so what they did is was very empirical

in for example when you're studying endurance going into the cell studying the biochemistry of this cell in the body taken apart figure out how this works is very helpful very

on the other hand when you're dealing with strength that approach has been not really effective so if we talk about muscle muscle training for example hypertrophy we still have no idea what the hell's going on so we can we know which buttons to push but that just empirical knowledge that's not the understanding of the cell so we really don't understand hypertrophy really no we do not wow no and let's I'll be happy to talk about this but if you don't mind let me just finish on this very

overload in the Soviet weightlifting system so what they did even though they also you know they cut the muscle look at that as well just didn't learn as much but they coaches program particular laws for athletes watch what happened and then they watched how they all is performed and the watch how the top athletes perform and it looks for patterns and there were very open-minded so there are not thinking like well it's got to be just the heaviest weights will do that or it's got to be the

training to failure is going to do that it's not the case so just to give you an example of how

enormous that undertaking was so typical strength training studies what six weeks for someone trained College subjects you know guys are just on their phones

but I feel so me the village of was also world champion he studied the training loads of top weightlifters only when they're successful in competition for for Olympic cycles for so we're talking about 16 years and then somebody else due for another cycle

and they're just an amazing patterns just emerged so for instance I'm going to give you give you a rundown what the patterns are

there are certain optimal volumes how much exercise you do

there's certain optimal intensities

so if you followed the variable overload method the optimal intensity so the average intensity would be about 75 percent of your max which for most people would be probably somewhere like a traps or something you could do maybe 10 and maybe he'd and

you will see that about half of all the lifts that you do or about 7580 percent

now where do all the rest the other lips come in so there's a normal distribution so you will find that 7580 percent on the top

80-85 little bit lower you know so the lighter weights like 60% are in the bottom and they have you ways like 90% in and higher are in the bottom as well so the figured out you just have to do most of your work with these average weights there are not so light so you're going to respect them

but they're not so happy that you have any question about performing lifting them correctly so and then there is another aspect of intensities just doing some heavier lifts very very carefully measured number of heavy lifts in addition like 90% or whatever occasionally

then they figured out the proper volumes just to give you an idea if you are looking at let's say and you know you might be doing 30 reps of given exercise per session what have you although there's variability but then there's also something else has very interesting is the optimal number of repetitions with the given weight and this is what hurts people that hurts people's heads

if you look at it the weights from seventy to ninety percent

the optimal number of repetitions are one-third to two-thirds of your maximum so let me give an example to the reader to The Listener let's say that you're lifting a 10 rep max wait so you go all out as hard as possible you can do 10 reps

in training you should be doing

you should be doing 3 to 6 reps that's it that's that's the window

and why is that we have no idea but the scientists like in this case there was I think it was much fear who was involved in that the father of participation I think it was one of the scientists they experimented with all sorts of rep ranges

and they figured out that if the wraps are too low the give it a weight you don't get stronger if the rabbits get too high either the athlete gets hurt or he's technique is compromised or he's just unable to perform the optimal volume so pretty much roughly you looking at doing about half of the Reps you're capable of that's it and

people can argue with this old a wand like what's the science behind this there's no science we don't know the science is purely empirical this particular method is purely empirical it worked for decades it still does and that's one of the ways you can get strong

so in summary we have

we have sorry step loading which is where you stay with the same weight for a while where the same wraps whatever and then make a sudden jump that's the best way to train for beginners usually we have wave loading or cycling which is we build up jump back and pulled up again and we have variable loading which is almost

almost chaotic we're just constantly surprised about it with what were throwing at it but we do that within very narrow parameters so this method was purely developed by studying winners and winners is where they finally took that but the studies were done at every level so for example coaches in the field would conduct something called pedagogical experiments which is which is a study that's not quite as

not quite as scientifically solid but it's still good enough so the first would test things out lower level athletes and they will finally take it to a higher level athletes so the things that I'm telling you about they have been universally effective for athletes above the beginner level and of course there are some subtle changes as you progress there's some subtleties like for instance notice that I said that you have to use some heavy lifts like 90% 95% but has to be very Surgical

about how many so for instance beginners do none

Advanced lifters need to do just some but not many intermediate lifters can do the most or heavily weightlifters can do not as many lighter ones can do more so there are some differences had different levels but the principles fundamentally the same and these principles apply whether people are taking drugs or not yes they do the difference is in fact the variation skin with veggie of made a very strong case very strong case of that they use the Soviet

forbidden for that was restoratives and they said that this is universal even with restoratives or not the difference for this for the drugs would be is just that the volumes will be higher you will be able to train more that's pretty much the difference but the body will still work the same way now these principles have they caught on in the United States I mean they've caught on with strong first I know the Ute you implement these and people teach these but is this something that's you know

reverse Ali sort of accepted or is it still something that people are cute look cautiously curious about it's definitely not Universal in part because people don't know about it in part you have to implement this correctly so right now the several the several areas where you would see that is well one obviously the body Che cose powerlifting programs that have been imported here by these by powerlifters the other is we have the program called

strong which is when again this is a very faithful representation of the Soviet weightlifting system but applied to General strength exercises like you know squats deadlifts and so on and the other thing what we also do and this is what we do with with the military and so on and so forth we have some simple programs very simple programs that are designed using this Delta XX principal

and using this optimal loads that they could just go out and use the nice thing is unlike Progressive overload cycling if something happens you got a problem here are there's some variability so in summary just say no it's not widely no it's not now that's like States yeah let's fix it and it makes sense and one of the things that I really like what you're saying about is completing the adaptation with your tendons in your ligaments

so all these different things that often times are injured when you are ramping up your weight lifting and you're trying to increase the amount of weight you carry you so this this principle of maintaining at a similar weight for a long time allowing your body to complete that adaptation that makes a lot of sense out of dacians need to be stable and it does it's not true just for strength training if you look at endurance as well they adaptations in the mitochondria is wealthy you can

get some acute adaptations a very short-term like oh you know bigger whatever guns and six weeks or faster 400 meters six weeks yes you can do that but these adaptations are transient so it takes time for things to really get got solidified and also if you're more patient with your progression as well you're going to find that your gains are much more stable if you take some time off which is important for anybody you travel you get sick some

the think happens so if you have been training in a matter where you're not forcing yourself in fact this is one of the very important points in

that so it coaches would make that do not force that updation there David rigored riggers probably the greatest weight lifter of all times so he's over 60 World Records in several weight classes and just unbelievable athlete so he just made a point that do not force the strength development do not force Mass development that's another problem you start it's possible to build muscle fast but it's not given necessarily very quality muscle

so yes take your time and and this is interesting and optional this is what Old-Timers understood I'm a fan of books by all-time strong man not all of them of course but some of them are just remarkable Earl Lederman he was an American strongman and educator he wrote a book back in 1925 called The Seekers of strength

and it's an awesome book she read this book and if you follow the directions in this book from 1925

you will get far superior results and foremost pop Fitness and strength programs because people who had some sense some common sense they're able to get observe what's going on there are not driven by some slogan oh one more rep whatever yeah yeah the one more rep thing is a it's very embraced here in America yeah with Meat Heads which are my people the the thing about it is that you think that mental toughness is

to push you past your limits or what your perceived limits are and that that's where the real strength happens that's where the real growth takes place that's a violet that's a very valid point for for you mentally not physically mentally but periodically this is very important point you have to push the button push the body to the Limit whether in competition with some other manner but for a short period of time and not too often that's very important you know Ronnie

in is right yeah yeah Ronnie Coleman who was mr. Olympia just at one point in time one of the most impressive and spectacular physiques on Earth is now so injured from all of his incredible lips that he was known for lifting enormous enormous amounts of weight and I mean I think when they asked him about if we do anything difficult I think he's had I hope I'm not wrong but I think more than eleven back surgeries over the last few years

yeah he's essentially herniated every single disc in his back and a series of back operations it's left him walking with crutches and you know it's bad but this is the result of this sort of mindset of a champion you know that he was your oh Barney I'm going to interrupt you for a second dude Champion has that mindset on the platform the champion whenever the champion is in the gym

he or she is going to approach this as a as a working man pretty much this is the plan this is what I do so you will find that absolutely in in sports you have to be extremely tough and you have to model some of that in training as well but in a very very careful time matter yeah so for instance

top lifters stop powerlifters they Max twice a year add the Nationals and of the world's meanwhile they train hard to push themselves to do everything right but they do not try to squeeze out one extra rep you just simply will not work it does not work I remember having a conversation with Andy Bolden and is the first man to dump the thousand pounds

and just speak tiger athlete if you watch Andy pool and competition is just just unbelievable it's a thing of beauty and I just and do is tell me how how some lifters he have seen that we just simply try to hang with others better lifters in the gym and try to repeat exactly what they do and that's what happens after that nothing good happens from that mmm you have to be tough when it's time

and the gym you have to do the plan

and

like for example let's talk about heavy lifting does have you singles let's say if I'm sure everybody who listens to your program has at what point of their life decided to up their bench press by going to a maximum once a week I'm sure everybody has I have you have everybody has so how long did it last

typically six weeks for beginner and advanced lifter might tolerate two or three weeks and that's about it so for whatever reasons after that you know you nervous system starts bending out you endocrine system can keep pop and that's it so for that reason before the competition you might take like a 90% single double or something like that and if you look at the longevity of power lifters and if you look at longevity

a weightlifters of the Soviet school it's very impressive I'll give you one great example so while David rigert himself who was the champion around you know in the 70s so he is way is probably pushing 70 right now you know lives in a farm works in the farm but he's coached doing great very healthy but his coach that's that's an even more interesting story Rudolf plukfelder he was

probably the oldest to win the Olympics in weightlifting he was 36

and he worked in the mines and daytime and then train hard

so look for the ethnically here so as nickel he's German so one of the Germans living in the Soviet Union and eventually when the Soviet Union fell apart could kids emigrated to Germany and it's a journalist came to visit him and so here's this really spry looking guy pulling around in the garden and the Gerald is asking pardon me sir may I speak to your dad

so here's this guy who is almost 90 years old still looks about 30 years younger who still does jump squats with 90 kilos for says attend and this is an example so have you weights don't have the same longevity but that's perhaps more that does not have anything to do with the training system that has to do with the fact the strain you put in your system by eating so much just not so good but this guy's have longevity if you also look at

the powerlifters most successful powerlifters American part of lifters Eddie cone competed for if I'm not mistaken about 30 years at the highest level from a very lightweight class too much heavier one and he stayed super healthy throughout he maybe had one injury and Eddie right now yours have a after retirement is very very healthy so you will find that the mentality of saving this eye of the tiger for when it

years as opposed to treating every training days of competition that makes a big difference for performance and for longevity it's just battles the mindset of always do more always push harder always give your all leave everything in the gym there's this is the mindset that people have been sort of indoctrinated into sure that they think that hard work is what really matters but hard work doesn't matter but hard work can come in a lot of different

it can manifest itself differently would that approach of worked with a guy like Ronnie Coleman because he's a bodybuilder so bodybuilders obviously you're not talking about competition in sense of being able to lift a lot of weight and talking about just Mass acquiring Mass what you know the bodybuilders from the older era

like Franco Columbu very sad that dr. Columba passed recently but he was an exceptionally strong man a very healthy man he died swimming yeah but it wasn't a heart issue that has nothing to do with lifting so he was very healthy and very strong till the end and if you look at the guys of that generation they're you know they're doing great and if you look at other bodybuilders power power lift let's see bodybuilders who have some kind of a power

approach these guys have been around longer as well if you look at the Old Timers again Dave Draper these guys anymore Clarence best you know Claire's best sure okay super shredded Glarus is a friend of mine and Clarence is well let's put it this way he is not a spring chicken but he's got an absolutely spectacular physique he's still staying very strong other recent version discipline yeah what how old is he now it's got to be in the 70s right we've pushing 80 possibly yeah

there he is

yep that's Clarence he's awesome that guy's awesome that is crazy that picture of him lifting his shirt up with this complete grandpa face and just super Jack body the guys are incredible that's got the auto he knows how to push himself when you need to push himself yeah well he's very very intelligent that guy but old top athletes and lifters are very intelligent there are some flukes but they don't last long right I see what you're saying yeah for longevity you sort of have to have that

if intelligent approach so do you think a guy like Ronnie Coleman would have been able to achieve the mass and the size and the way he was built with a different strategy I can speculate I don't know but I can speculate but if you look at the muscle mass that have been achieved by heavyweight powerlifters biker Kawaski look up that guy Kurt coas Carwash key ka r w OS

sk-ii so if you see that type of development achieved by heavyweight powerlifters to then I don't see why not hmm and bodybuilders have their own additional techniques they still have to do their stuff for their separation and whatever it is that you do but I think there's a very good chance that you would have and if you look at the

successful power like Mike O'Hearn for example that's a very strong guy he's a power bodybuilder

there we go is Carwash carry their crushing size of that fucking guy yeah he looks like a body but look at the size of his legs that is that is ridiculous yeah and that guy just would not fool around with baek whatever deck and what have you pec deck yeah you say that disdainfully that why don't we just say it was our people don't understand what's wrong with it

you know

machines are this is an interesting point of view okay there is a belief that machines are great for beginners and because you don't have to control it it's safer and so isolated so on and so forth really machines have limited use for advanced lifters when they're injured or whenever they have to just really focus on something so it's possible it's possible to use a machine if you really messed up you can find some angle but at beginners

it's doing leg presses against Ole Miss Hoppy's coordination is long enough to bag strengths and like an obvious AB strength mmm so machines are not necessarily bad so the pec deck might be okay for bodybuilder looking for more Cuts or for somebody recovering from an injury knowing exactly the angle at which to push but your typical person go in the gym has no business doing that none one of the things that I love about kettlebells is that it promotes functional

length it promotes the entire body moving as a unit and that seems to apply very quickly to Athletics it's one of the reasons why Jiu-Jitsu people have adopted kettlebell training so almost Universal absolutely there are many reasons why but that's one of them yeah and non-glamorous moves like Turkish getup which is like one of the very best moves for Jiu-Jitsu it's just phenomenal for your stability your core and your ability to get out from under the bottom bottom positions it's just a phenomenal work for nominal workout

but the these principles of using the entire body and you know with kettlebells using different parts of your body using your legs your core your app all in one one workout it's also so it's so effective time wise because you can get a spectacular work out in a very short amount of time your Keurig Joe maybe this is a good time to discuss the benefits of kettlebells versus

I'd say barbells or by sure that's very good conversation that's a question ask people ask often right so I would name these as three top modalities for people yeah there are some other additional things dumbbells and whatever but that usually their secondary so what are the respective benefits of these different modalities

the body weight is obviously it's accessible it's with you no matter where you go but interestingly enough the body weight requires the most coaching so you have to it's very subtle like for example if you look at developing something the gym is called the hollow position takes a lot of coaching to perform correct even pull upper push up its is a lot of work one-legged squat so on and so forth so it's great and takes but it just takes more time where investment also the down side of the body weight would be you

to obtain your lower back effectively and you have to train your lower back to see ya you just have to and whatever you do back extensions other stuff like Bridges it's not going to do for your back just won't so bodyweight grade modality but with its these limitations

the barbell

if you just love heavy stuff it's awesome and it's just psychologically it's extremely satisfying I have it done if that's say for some people not for all then if you're looking forward to my maximize your muscle mass nobody has come up yet with anything other than the barbell so you know you start doing you know some repetition deadlifts squats so on so that's another reason but let's say you're playing football right

the problem with the barbell first of all is the learning curve it takes some time to learn it correctly it's not easy to master it and it takes a lot of instruction

in addition the barber is not forgiving so let's say that one of your shoulders eject tub it's just not very forgiving because you can't you just have to adjust yourself to the bar is opposed to make the Implement adjust yourself so this is where the cattle boat comes in

first of all the Kettlebell because it moves freely it adjusts to your body to your physiology Anatomy I should say so it works it worked quite well for example Mark Rifkin he is one of my top instructors he was a highly successful gymnast in the past and later on he was a coach for women's part of looked in national team and great power lifter to so he cannot do bilateral exercises well because of the mileage he sustained you took a very bad landing as a gymnast Rooney's Negan

from there other things went bad and back whatever so but he can do one arms he cannot do to arm swings because it just messes him up mmm but he can do one arm swing so the body compensates will differently and he can handle it so it's with the proper medical clearance it's much easier to work around problems then the offset Center gravity that just tremendous thing for your back I'm sorry for your shoulder so the position is to put your shoulder in you cannot do with

anything else but any obviously you have the get up which is an amazing exercise cannot do it as well with other implements but the ballistics that's another unique benefit of the kettlebell swings and snatches exercises like that

the benefits of these exercises are many so first of all ballistic loading obviously as part of sports and it's a part of life and

often times it's hard to do it safely go ahead start jumping it like before somebody starts jumping correctly jumping off boxes and so on and so forth just even you know hopping across the floor it requires some coaching it requires getting some strength it requires addressing some dysfunction so on so forth the kettlebell swing for example it's

so many hard men with high mileage or really banged up his so many different ways their backs their knees their hips their able to do swing safely that's just remarkable and the ballistic contractions very important so we have to run you have to jump you have to do things like that but it goes beyond that for your health for longevity so as we grow older

there's a loss of type 2 muscle muscle fibers so the strong ones the fast twitch fibers

there are several problems with that first of all they're metabolically needed for the body to be healthy to process sugar so on so on so forth

second is to deal with real-life situations you know like it's very unfortunate some old person trips and breaks a hip it's terrible and oftentimes the reason just weakness

and we need this fast fibers because

whenever you trip you have this reflexive contraction these fibers go online first so if you don't have the money more you got massive problems right so another reason is in type II fibers there is a mitochondrial degeneration takes place as you grow older much faster than others and if you don't take care of that it's also that's aging

so you've got to train this type II fibers and they're only two ways to train type II fibers it's heavy or fast so there's no Third Way so whenever people try to do some sort of a super slow this or Pilates that whatever it's not going to do it so you have to train heavy we have to train fast if you want to stay young so are you completely against that kind of super slow training not at all but for totally different reasons

there is well obviously one reason is possibly somebody's injured right mmm and now the reason is to develop your type one endurance fibers hypertrophy for these fibers why would you want to do that

well first of all type 1 fibers the downside of these fibers is the contract slower so obviously that's a downside for some sports for some activities but they're also more efficient which means it's Plus for other sports right so hmm

another positive here they already come pre crippled mitochondria so mitochondria that's why robic metabolism takes place and by building your type one fibers you automatically get more endurance in addition to muscle mass and strength to so

super slow work is good for that but it has to be done correctly

the proper methods were developed by Russian Professor Victoria leonov and so he developed this method I'm going to summarize it for you right now for your free listeners that's something you can easily do you so easily is not the word simply

so the duration of a set is 30 to 60 Seconds

you have to select the range of motion where there's no there's no stacking there's no there's no support from your bones at all so for example if you were to do a squat you go down below parallel but not to the point where you're sitting on your calves and come up just a little above parallel and Below again so just that most unpleasant the most painful area mmm if you're doing let's say push-ups for

HS for example you would almost brush the deck with your chest come up about halfway and come back down and the speed is very slow so there's no momentum at all now doesn't sound like anything new but here's what's new Juliana optimize the rest periods and and that's a big empty Game Changer normally when people trained in this manner bodybuilders and others they just want to get more burnt possible

and by the way the burnt these awful and in this particular case you want to train close to failure and this particular case that's just a muscular training that's not strength training per se so they try to run for one set to the next so they'll do this let's say the 32nd said than they will just you know rest for 30 seconds to do it again completely Hammer themselves the problem with that is

even though we do not know the exact mechanisms of possible growth we do know that some lactic acid is needed but too much lactic acid is destructive

so what silly on of did is he figured out is after these kind of set you have to rest for 5 to 10 minutes and at sounds for people it's very hard mental thing to do so here I am going through this massive burn

and I have to wait for 5 to 10 minutes

but it's very simple you introduce another exercise in between

so train twice a week five two five to ten sets on the heavy day eventually once you build up to it and about one to three sets in the yd that's it now this is incorporating super slow techniques oh yeah and who would this be good for wrestlers hmm for Esther is a spectacular yeah because even though their explosive elements there as well but it's also very much there's that static element static endurance and one of my

in first one of my strong for a certified instructors Roger from the UK he I had him followed this protocol before he and his crew road across the Atlantic and he did much better off than most people and was much happier if you can be happier rolling across the Atlantic so for rowing for wrestling for bodybuilding for some people who cannot do anything else so that's a good protocol so this is essentially a muscular endurance protocol

all you know what is both because because the muscles getting bigger right and it will get stronger as but it won't be faster it's not something you wouldn't cooperate with a boxer I would know absolutely not no definitely not wrestler yes MMA you just have to use your judgment there Robbie certain settings on your style yeah yeah now this this it's so interesting hearing this big long break in between exercises because it makes sense it makes sense you would want the

to be fully recovered because then they'd be able to do more work but that's so counterintuitive to what everybody promotes ever you go to a coach you get a you get a you know personal trainer or something like that they just want to burn everybody out that's all come on let's go let's go next exercise let's go let's go let's go let's go that's about feeling yeah that's not that's about feeling and that's about time management possibly another other whales know and there are other ways to save time there are other ways of doing that depending

being on your circumstances you can definitely find ways of doing that but you can fill in the time with other things you know let's say you're doing this hypertrophy protocol and by the way it has been used extensively by Russian national Judo Ensemble teams so you're doing some rows on the Belt you know the guys holding you up then you walk around for a minute you do the push-ups when you walk around you do something else so you're making good use of the time you're just not revisiting the same

so instead of taking 10 minutes in between any workout at all you would take just a couple minutes in between and then do like push-ups and then do something that's non related to that so think of it as a slow circuit Mmm Yeah okay slow circuit but then you'd go back to whatever it was that you were initially doing ten minutes later correct yeah so those muscles are recovered but physiologically you're still getting this constant state of exercise are at least fairly constant with some you what's the lowest

most amount of break in between an exercise you recommend that would be that's the guidelines Giuliano's guidelines about five minutes if they arrest his active for the same action as I'm talking about so active rest means you're moving you're not just sitting jump rope maybe not necessarily this would be probably just walking around maybe you could do some super easy Shadow Boxing or something or like food for course um but I mean extremely extremely easy so so that facilitates a circulation okay yeah just just do that and it's passive it's longer

that's wow it's again so counterintuitive to what most people call the like particularly something like CrossFit right CrossFit is all about massive reps and doing the most that you possibly can and you know switching from one thing quickly to another thing how do you feel about that Joe how about would take one minute I'll get myself another t-shirt I'll dress that I'm good yeah sure thanks it's a good question very good question excellent questions you'll thank you

you he's gonna go get another tea do you know how to do it no no idea all right Jamie will do it for you I have time I have a cup here

I think he's going to get you another cup it whether you like it or not

this is not in the in the shot is it doesn't matter okay give me in the shot

that this all this stuff is so so interesting because it's so obviously it makes sense but it's just not the method that anyone

thank you this is the top coaches if you look at top athletes who don't necessarily advertise what they're doing that's not that's not the case so it's more common now it's getting there yeah sorry to say Let me let me do this let me dump this in there

are you a tea fanatic no I'm just a warm liquid fanatic

my best my favorite my favorite worm liquidus confetti no Italians make it it's like zest from lemon when you boil it stuff is good yeah yeah do you drink caffeine yeah yeah occasionally known twice a day but just a very small amount don't be running running around buzzing yeah that's what I like but you like buzzing yeah it was a good man Q buzzing so tell me

CrossFit

so CrossFit so what is your question about CrossFit exactly the methods that they use this the sort of competition with a limp external lifts doing it to maximum reps doing it for Speed do you think that's a recipe for injury or do you think it's a good modality of pursued correctly I'm going to start by saying that

I like the fact the CrossFit guest people I'll guess people training they have a great Community people are very motivated I like the fact that they understand the concept of General physical preparation which means you have to train multiple different qualities

I would not go about it the way they did and let me explain to you why so

let's talk about endurance so there are different aspects to endurance and

so there's cardio and there is the logo the peripheral endurance in the muscles muscular endurance so first let's discuss how do we develop cardio let's discuss how we develop endurance in the muscle

the best the healthiest way

to develop your cardio is just steady state exercise like running in a particular particular speed that's not too fast that's very simple that's so best way to develop cardio for most people it is for most people it is and so here's what's happening what's happening is the hardest stretching when you increase your heart rate up to a certain point the hard start stretching more

and it stretches more and more so that increases the stroke volume so pretty much you get a bigger heart and that's good

that works up to

not quite 90 percent of heart rate when you start redlining your heart rate when you start getting to ninety percent and higher the hard does not have time to relax for it so it's really pretty much is twitching so you're no longer really stretching that hard so you want to be training at

the metabolic intensity that's much lower something we can pretty much just any conversation so I say you're running and talking to your body that's what you want to stay to develop endurance that well to develop to stress your heart that's the basic method so that's one method hmm so the second method is interval training so and the interval training for the heart was developed by Germans decades ago and these guidelines still stand so here's what they figured out

they figured out that your

well we know that this various systems and you body have inertia so for instance note is that when you're running hard and you stopped your heart still beating hard and then maybe after 10 seconds after there's a sudden drop right there so there's that inertia so the Germans figured out if you get your heart rate up to about 85 90 percent which is

it's hard but it still not maximum and then you switch to walking or jogging so the heart is still beating and so is this extra volume of blood is moving in a stretches the heart so it works really well so you can use the intro method as well but it's it was found its used best after

after a period of steady state training it's very demanding on the body and it's not it's just it's too easy to have problems with the heart if you start using it prematurely then there's also such a thing as

high heart rate under heavy loads so in this particular case we're talking about Dynamic exercises so as Dynamic exercise running bicycling skiing even light kettlebell swings that's Dynamic exercise when you start doing static exercise let's say you're trying to do squats have his quads for you know to get your cardio so to say that's not the best idea because that interferes with the blood flow that

it's something called after load versus preload the hard gets thicker instead of the hard gets you know gets stretched and bigger so it's not the optimal way to train the heart

you can again this simple way you can use

Dynamic exercise and interval type training or repeat training in this case do train your heart used to do an exercise that is dynamic in nature

to raise your heart rate to about let's say 80 90 percent which would be 80 90 percent it would be where you can see maybe a couple words you know you're not in a dying yet you can still answer a question

and then you just walk around and you do it again so that's a simple way of how much time walking around that depends that totally depends on who you are depends on us how fast your heart rate drops back down what do you want to like is there a number you want to keep it in the 140s the 150s is dependent upon your age okay in this particular case you would do you would drop it down the original guidelines were done for young people those hundred twenty hundred thirty beat so you're talking about 60 65 percent and pretty much if you were just looking at

being able to pass the talk test which means you can talk you know short sentences hmm I can speak in short something like that right so for example you do a set of 10 swings really powerful with a kettlebell walk around a little bit when you feel that you can speak again you do it again do it again so that's a simple way of doing that but the heart is only a very small part of endurance so we definitely need to do some cardio for health and athletes definitely need to do for their

commence butt

what we really need to focus on is need mitochondria so mitochondrion the in the muscle cell so that's where energy is being converted aerobically which means efficiently so if you look at the way your muscle uses energy so you will get this energy with food converted it goes down eventually the final currency so to say is something called ATP but

you know you only have it for a few seconds so it has to be reloaded so we have three main energy system so have the creatine phosphate system it's very powerful but it's only can do you know go for just some seconds and as clean-burning we have I robic system that's not powerful at all but it's longer-lasting and we have the glycolytic system that's kind of in between that dumps a lot of acid and other fatigue metabolites in there

so what we want to do

as we want to develop these mitochondria in our muscles it's easier to do a slow fibers and

it's a little more involved in fast fibers I'll tell you how we can do that but it can be done so what we're looking for

instead of trying to trash the muscle with acid

we are trying to train in a way that to produce less acid and then only before the competition right before the competition couple weeks out you do a couple of cannabis smokers like that to get yourself used to that that's thing so the way we develop mitochondria which means make your muscle oxidative make your muscle enduring and not polluting

in slow fibers it simply moving right below anaerobic threshold so anaerobic threshold it's that intensity at which you you know acid is accumulating just up to a certain point and stays at steady state then you can keep disposing of that for a while for quite a while as soon as you go above it very rapidly you crash so

running right below then I Robux threshold is the primary Training Method for endurance athletes and how do you know that you ran the threshold when you feeling the talk test that's a simple way to do that and it's very interesting that endurance athletes even though who are not necessarily well-educated they kind of tend to gravitate store that intensity and so what happens is we are producing just small amounts of acid

and the body finally is able to you know produce less and less so that's how we train our robic I'm sorry that's how we train mitochondria in slow fibers for a fast fibers become something more interesting

so the conditions

the conditions for making the mitochondria be able to handle more traffic without producing as much acid is push them just to the edge of acidosis just just to the edge and do it over and over and over so Professor vacation ski back in the 80s figure out that that's the guy who invented Plyometrics and so on so he figured out so here's what we do

imagine that you are

sprinting less he's sprinting for five seven seconds and then you were just walking and you're sprinting again and you're just walking but you're doing that you measuring your blood lactate and is still keeps below the threshold and you sustain that for let's say 40 minutes so think of this for a second so you're sprinting very intensely

but do you do you stop before you start burning you get to the point of just light muscular fatigue and you do over and over and over so

if we talk about the coaching terminology it's repeat training versus interval training

so what is interval training

Barbra Joe have to take a step to the side so the three types of rest periods between your sets whether you're running lifting whatever so there's a stress period that means that you will have a harder time to do the same thing or you will not be able to repeat it right that's interval training there is the super compensation period

which means if you wait extra long time you'll perform even better like for example if you do a set of pull-ups wait for 15 minutes you might be able to do more 15 minutes later

and there is the ordinary period which is just to be able to repeat it over and over so that's in coaching speakers go to repeat training repeat versus interval so we're trying to sustain that same level of performance for 40 minutes let's say so that's an example of how we develop mitochondria fast-twitch fibers and the same thing we can do with kettlebell swings the same thing you can do work in a heavy bag and so on and so forth now CrossFit

it's a circle back around to that what do they do that you feel you said there's a lot of good things they do to get people moving they introduce people to all these different exercise routines what do you think they do wrong Joe I don't want to pick on CrossFit this show called metabolic conditioning has been around since 1975 at least when our said Jones coined that term you know the guy from Nautilus hmm that's when you would people go through a circuit of machines going you know going one after the next

and I'm sure it's been around even before that

I would just do things totally different so there is no point in there's no point in me trying to criticize criticize a different system I'm just telling you this is what the science says experience says is how you should be doing it hmm and I think that'll there are a lot of great people and Crossfit and I just wish you know power to them you would just do it the what like what you're talking about with longer rest periods different sort of training pro-china let's say that you're training for the CrossFit Games

okay I'd say that's your goal right

what you would do is

name some CrossFit exercise let's say whoa whoa okay let's say they throw the ball against the wall good exercise you do this thing with this wobble for 40 minutes like I told you and you can incorporate a second exercise in between just in between stick it in there so let's say you do a wall ball you throw this a few times walk around you do a set of push-ups let's say five to ten reps and you do this for 40 minutes

why 40 minutes it doesn't always have to be 40 minutes

but pretty much we know if you can sustain it for 40 minutes it's not going to be overly glycolytic so we just kind of know that I'll give you another example let's say burpees right you can do a burpee but time it in a way that you can keep doing burpees for 40 minutes so you do a rep walk around do a rap walk around or even break it up so you do these different crossfit specific competition specific exercises in this particular manner

able to sustain it again for 40 minutes then pardon me closer to the competition you start doing what in track is called peeking so

when you're running let's say 400 meters or 800 meters athletes when they train in the offseason the train largely aerobically even though their distances are shorter they're still not trying to trash themselves but we do know that even if you develop your mitochondria if you do it correctly and suddenly you throw yourself in an acid bath your body is going to be on pleasantly surprised so what you need to do is you need to model that

so what's going to happen is

a couple of weeks before the competition once a week you would pretty much it's like a something similar to the competition like a water whatever and this will accomplish several things

one is it will up regulate your buffers so your body produces baking soda pretty much to cancel out the acid and it's a very rapid adaptation it's very easy to get just two weeks you got it and in addition you also operate Glacier glycolytic enzymes which you also want for competition and again they're very quick to develop very quick to lose as well

so finally there is such a thing as heart and respiration rate modeling so which pretty much means that you can be second win and if you're not used to sucking wind is not going to feel good your diaphragm is going to spasm and not so good so

the purpose of peaking is to get yourself in kind of a simulated competition situation where the acid is high enough to make your body adapt to it which adopts fast and to make yourself

comfortable with Hari high heart rates and breathing so that's that's the summary that's pretty much how track athletes train for Middle distance what do you do now okay first of all how old are you 20 you look great thanks thank you great haircut to thank you yeah I like it

how old are you really I'm working on being 20 Jill working on going back yeah I'm 52 are you older than me I'm working I we're both working and going back how about this stick with that don't want to be judged based on my age I understand how often do you train these days often do I train almost every day almost every day just doing something differently yeah doing something mostly kettlebells are mostly for the last several years

Irish with I suppose last several months were kind of experimental doing something else but for the last several years pretty much has been nothing but swings and and dips just one of my protocols it's a very particular anti glycolytic protocol and the glycolytic means well the kind of thing we just discussed just swings and dips yep why why that combination

trying to be minimalist pretty much and trying to cover as much space as possible also trying to do things that my body likes but the swings are

I would argue that the swing is the most beneficial exercise anybody can do because you will again your training power your training your fast fibers you're developing mitochondria in the fast fibers you are training your connective tissues and you know you're getting your cardio as well it's not you know it's not focused on that but you have that side effect the dip is you know kind of covers what's been missing

I like the idea of very minimalist General strength protocols that just have pretty much a hip hinge and and the Press that's that's a preference what about chin-ups or things along those lines sure is great I'll do him some time but you will find to your surprise that if you do swings powerfully and if you do dips or push-ups powerfully chances are you're not going to lose your jobs really chances are for most people sir here's something to keep in mind what is general training

specific training so in Russian Sports Science there is a concept of General training versus special training special immune support specific pretty much so the general straight General training can be strengthened be something else gives you a foundation for everything else and it's characterized by a high degree of carryover so for example if you decide to do barbell squats you know for a fact that you're going to jump higher you're going to run fast you're going to hit

harder and so on and so forth if you decide to go leg extensions you can be sure that you're going to get better like extensions that's it so General exercises are the ones that are fairly simple to perform a hippie the give you the greatest possible carry over so that's what you do and then after that you start adding you more specific stuff so let's say that you know you would increase the number of chin-ups you want to do what you got to do chips so that's a specific practice absolutely so gently

one of the things that I noticed that I thought was really weird was when I started doing kettlebells things that I wasn't doing I got stronger at ya like I wasn't doing dips for a long time like I didn't do them for months and months and I was just doing kettlebells I was just doing cleans presses snatches swings bunch of different squat protocols overhead squats my dip went through the roof also do but it was so strange it was like we call this the what the hell effect so that type of carrier

average some of it we can understand some wood we can explain some which we can't but yeah we've had the kettlebell swing for example increase the performance of World Champion Power lifters and top marathon runners at the same time it's a very bizarre thing and again some of it I can decipher some with second but hey we'll take it right what do you think is going on there if you had a guess because okay so it's a number of different things one is

the type of

the type of breathing patterns that we use for example for endurance that for that helps strength endurance so we use this pressurized breathing that increases your strength on exhalation so that pretty much increases your strengths at any kind of exertion whether it's punching or lifting and at the same time we are also training our muscles that inspiration muscle inhalation muscles as well and so developing developing these muscles is really important for performance

so that just one of the aspects in other aspects is the

well this is kind of interesting mr. Haney was a coach for Danny Thompson Danny Thompson is he broke the 3,000 pound total record in the in powerlifting some years back side known the Donnie for some time so Donnie kept hurting his back and he's dead lift was stuck so we met I showed him some kettlebell stuff he started doing that invented a couple of cool things of his own as well

so nine months later he added about 70 pounds choose deadlift hundred pounds to his bench press said the total record and what's what his coach said interesting he said kettlebells work the muscles without killing them just kind of interesting so it appears to be that the particular stimulus that you have its there's always a positive and there's always a negative when you're training right so there's something good that's happening so some of this holding you back you have to

cover so it seems to be that nature of whatever things that happens within the muscle is positive more than negative and I think part of it is very well those ballistic loading the body adapts to the extremely extremely well part of it has to do the particular training protocols we have because we produce the right amount of acid but not too much acid

a lot of trainees in the kind of a pop Fitness World they're just enamored with burn like oh go for the bird yeah Fred hatch will dr. Fred hatch with a great line so I had field was the first lifted us quite a thousand pounds in competition and he was just a brilliant sport signed His Brilliant coach he said do you like burn light a match and show people are just enamored with the burn so again the loading protocols we have is such that you have the right amount

of that of that stimulation not excessive because what happens you have too much lactic acid right is here's what happens hello many many things happen we don't have the time to discuss this on the show but most of them are really rather negative some positive most of them read the negative but for sure they the make him work it makes you more sore for sure

people like to say well soreness is just caused by eccentric loading and that's it has nothing to do it lactic acid well eccentric loading does contribute to that absolutely but acid does as well it doesn't literally burn holes in your muscle but it does stimulate lysosomes something kind of eats up defective components of the cell to function and you also have the Spiker free radicals and so that free radicals damage to our membranes as well so with what we do we try to

plus there's other stuff happens like Buddy Brew starts producing ammonia which is toxic and depletes your ATP so all these things start going there's really sideways so I think the nature of what you do with kettlebells especially if you use the correct protocol is you just opted to buys these metabolic metabolic environment to get exactly what you want but there are some other things too like in your case for pressing and for dips

I challenge anybody to find a pressing exercise that's by mechanically more perfect for the shoulder than the Kettlebell military press it's perfect range of motions perfect great stretch great contraction grid just absolutely perfect so some would get some we don't but hey what the hell effects will take it right so what do you spend your time doing these days do you spend your time teaching seminars coaching people like writing books what's the

all of the above so I am staying I'm working on I teach some special events for a strong first which is my company the school of strength so I teach seminars like strong endurance to Second Wind and so on I write books and I do some Consulting but what I really am trying to do is I'm trying to build strong first you know the school of strength my vision is that

more people want to become stronger and strength will become cool strength will become important and I'd like to see that across decades really don't think strength school now

among a small portion of the population do you think that can actually change I hope so I don't know I hope so why would it change well we were working at it maybe you'll do something about it who knows but you know a friend of mine said something interesting over and John he said today you have this very small among young people very small fraction of the population this is super tough guys for it is competing in MMA and so on these Daredevils doing extreme sports is so on

and you have the huge majority or just sitting doing this or they go and do their little Pilates thing or whatever they do their little interval session and I just think the Society of large news more just just regular table guys you know like the old Farmers somebody like that and I think that that needs to be more Broad and people need to understand that that the I hate this word Fitness I just hate that because it conjures up images of just all sorts

weird equipment and weird exercises and foam rollers and all that stuff you know you don't like foam rollers it's not that I don't like foam rollers it's a tool just like everything else here's a problem a guy comes in he spends 45 minutes on some fancy he calls it movement problem the held movement prep and he's sitting around you know rolling his butt in the foam roller and he does some other weird Voodoo and you know if he's injured and if you got a prescription

inform his physical therapist or doctor power to buddy but if not and then finally is going to spend 10 minutes doing some doing some little nonsense get his heart rate up and between sets is going to be updating his profile or whatever so former all you've gotta it's got a place I'm going to tell you like even doing any of the corrective work something that you need to do you should even separate it from your training like don't dishonor the lifting prep platform by throwing a foam roller on it just do

where else in really yeah don't dishonor don't I thought it was just a natural thing to sort of work The Kinks out fine go work in Ma just do it somewhere else just don't do it by the platform and don't ever step over barbell that's the most disrespectful thing you can do really absolutely you can't step over a barbell in Russia get beaten up and thrown out of the gym they beat you I absolutely that seems excessive the other respective n-no you do and stepping over a barbells disrespect disrespect you have to go around

found it of course of course yes I do I not know this well now you do I'd I'm trying to think what I do I'm sure I've stepped over barbells it will get even nobody ever taught me that barbell get you that will really okay I didn't know when you see gems you know well we see Jim's like mine that have all this equipment all these different things do you look at that as like that's excessive or unnecessary Joe that depends that all depends on the circumstances we're talking about CrossFit

generally like we talked about CrossFit gym CrossFit early I think CrossFit Gyms I love CrossFit Gyms I mean they have a few things I think are not necessary but not so many but they have a lot of great stuff High pull up bars in platforms and so on and so forth those are Essentials but then beyond that is just whatever you add for yourself and without knowing your training needs your background I don't truly I can't evaluate you Jim right but I can tell you that most people have too much stuff

of and I becomes a problem of choices so you come in here of this and this and that so what are you gonna do bro you're just confused what is it called the Paradox of choice or something like that yes yes now what about injuries how often do you get injured from this kind of exercise and I've had a number Rangers in my life older contact injuries like you know fractures and things like that they're not from they're not from lifting from lifting things were all tweaks all of them were tweaks

but you know tearing ligaments by Falling and things like that now so you've never had issues with tendonitis or any other panelist on with that yeah some of that doing training pull-ups too heavy and things like right happened what do you do to combat that that's exactly what I got mine from sure yeah well first of all provided in the absence of medical restrictions you just work around things so you find things to do that work the area without aggravating it

so that's that's you know this kind of the age-old prescription for what you want to do and but I'm telling you that a lot of things we do are allowing a lot of people to get back in the game people have been really interview for and I can tell you that the techniques we use a strong first gettable techniques and some other techniques we have supporters amongst top Healthcare professionals people like Professor Stuart McGill who is top spine biomechanist in the world and

works with the elite of the elite of athletes and also the most broken down people great cook was a top physical therapist people like that so we have a very good track record of keeping people healthy I like this old expression from George the Russian lion hackenschmidt strength cannot be divorced from health I think that's a great line that's a great line yeah that's a great line I specifically have something with my bicep tendon I think I got it from two things I got it from training do

when a lot of chin-ups but also from archery because in archery you're extending as you're drawing back at the same time and this particular muscle gets overworked because well I have dr. Mark Chang I know you know I'm not saying I'm not checking you out yeah yeah I'll talk to him what about your diet I'm an enemy of nutrition I didn't know anything about I don't know maybe of nutrition man what do you mean it's such a confusing thing I'm telling you in training is really kind of funny about training

in training like I do my thing you do your thing he does he is saying but we got it's cool right right in nutritions like it's the only way right and there are so many different variables that is very hard to keep track of and so I just feel sorry for people in that field I really it's an arm you have to constantly be reading papers you have to constantly be studying and is still hopeless yes it's just really hopeless it's such a you know the body is a complex system

but I think this particular this particular Silo is worse than others it just so nonlinear and it's just so difficult to figure this out biological variability so confusing to with one person a diet would be optimal the other person it would be terrible you know I think what we should do is focus whether it's in diet or in training we should try to focus on things that are more Universal so for example in terms of longevity dr. Nick Lane who's a mitochondrial researcher he made a very

missing point he said right now for longevity so many efforts are directed at

the genetic engineering manipulation whatever fooling around trying to make this really really customized and he said you know what's really interesting why don't we tried to focus on something that's been known to work not just for any individual works for practice my pretty much every species which is mitochondrial health and he says that if we find a way of extending the lifespan 230 years old

he's pretty sure it's going to come from mitochondrial health and the stimuli for mitochondrial Health are pretty much well known well there may be some more down the road but now we do know so for example in terms of nutrition that's that's fasting

in terms of exercise it is both aerobic steady state exercise and that type of work for fast fibers about a told you about anti glycolytic training and

there's cold so those are the stimuli the primary stimuli for the mitochondria so probably for nutrition the same thing they should look for more things that work for everybody and then on kind of on the margins try to fool around with customization what about you personally what kind of guy do you fall back some years ago I met a very interesting gent or a half meckler and he introduced me to his so-called Warrior Diet

and I was not interested in any kind of a diet any kind of a body cam changes I'm just not into that kind of thing but what attracted me is efficiency he said to see once a day and I thought sure I'll try and this was long before the current intermittent fasting craze has begun so I don't think or he's getting quite the credit he deserves so I pretty much as he did a large dinner and don't worry about it do you snack it all during the day or anything nothing it killed me man really yeah and this is

in the case of you with no snack he kills you or as you get older just know it since I started this this way of eating so your body is acclimated to this one large meal it did it did and I just feel great when I do that you gotta slam a lot of calories down in one meal though right what do you eat steak mostly of course no chicken just and no the chicken say Don't eat chicken and know why what's wrong with chicken I just lay my don't like it you don't like it don't you like about the taste or what it says

fans for so we bird so it is a week Bird yeah can't even fly just just felt was you know that's just you know the chicken really yeah wow what up what about fish well my wife makes me all he did not not out of choice but mostly meat yeah but you understand what I'm telling you just personal choices and of course not especially Ricky - understand totally out of my wheelhouse but what about vegetables

vegetables just kind of a necessary evil you'd I do eat them what's necessary about them you don't this is an interesting point same dock Nick Lane

did some research and summarize some other research like why are fruit and vegetables good for you and the party line is the antioxidants and the almost convincingly concluded that's not the case because if you just try to isolate antioxidants just give it to people they don't have the same effect so the current theory squat you know and it's very likely is true is

the plant toxins pretty much promote hormesis hormesis pretty much resistance against stuff so it's pretty much mild doses of poison that you take to make yourself stronger so that's most likely what these things are good for

but any time you hear about antioxidants this antioxidants that it's unless they're prescribed by dr. to a particular patients patient antioxidant supplementation might even cause cancer so there's no reason that yeah that's just not something that shotgun I'll go to the pharmacy by all this stuff no you should know exactly what you're taking them for and should be aspis at should be you should gather recommendation prescription from your doctor that is correct have you

do you know anybody that follows a carnivore diet what's a carnivore diet carnivore diets very recent within the last few years people are eating only animal products okay and the great benefit that some people have had is people with autoimmune issues like skin conditions X Seema things along those lines it seems to cure it up people with severe arthritis it's I mean by cutting out all plant Foods

completely some people with autoimmune issues have found great results some people found great results with depression but it's extremely controversial and you know it's also ideologically troubling for some people some people don't want you to eat meat at all so if you're eating only meet this is terrible you sending a bad message okay it sounds like a fun died man sounds awesome but I'll I'm completely unqualified to come

right it would you be interested in trying would I be interested in trying it when I see some more research on that I might not that I'm a fan of vegetables or anything so I'm you know I would consider this a vegetables with this stain you say vegetables like it's a necessary evil you understand certain things it's like your foam roller Joe but you know you just do it it's not you don't enjoy that thing next to the Tim Tam that's what I use instead of a foam roller that Jackhammer right underneath the tripod and go

oh that's that was invented by MMA coach for a sahabi okay and go more effective so that's better than Val quick to better than vegetables I don't know no better than foam row or I think so but you do but that's what I'm saying like for a guy like you that talks about vegetables with such disdain I would think but it's a necessary evil you don't use it this is the thing I'm based on the current not involved the docs will tell you all this stuff about fiber and this and that that's supposedly good and again that's that's not my

all right but this other point about her mises which is again building up your resistance yes resilience to things so it's very possible vegetables are evil and the small doses of this evil make a stronger status doses well well tiny little quarter of your plate should be more probably probably I don't know it's just a funny subject with you you have an interesting relationship I'm an enemy of nutrition I hate it I just really hate it I have

sympathy deep sympathy for people who are in that line of work now do you supplement with multi vitamins or creatine or anything along those lines you know I don't and you know creating is definitely supplementation is not my specialty either but I can tell you creatine is one of those supplements that definitely has been tested extensively and while not for everybody it does work yes it's also been a lot of people it's also been proven as a nootropic which I think is fascinating so sorry but enhance is cognitive performance again out of my I don't have cognitive performance so

you don't have any kind of a potential not not my thing so what about vitamins you take any vitamins there's there's there's no evidence and again if if you would get a prescription from your doctor that you're sorting this then you should this is essentially not your wheelhouse absolutely not what about sleep I'm a big fan how much do you get I get a lot more than most most people who would I try to get nine hours oh great its that's I'm convinced I'm convinced based on the research

search that I've seen that it's that is very important yeah I'm convinced that as well I find a big difference in my performance both mental and physical when I have a lot of sleep but what disturbs me that we have this guy on dr. Matthew Walker who studies sleep extensively and you know he's a sleep expert and this is a direct correlation between a bunch of diseases and people not getting sleep heart attacks you know their heart attacks jump up some number of worldwide

the neighborhood of 20 plus percent when they do daylight savings time and people lose an hour so that's the most idiotic idea that it's still there goes away I hope it goes away too I was just in Arizona and one of the thing first things I said to them on stage I was like I'm so happy that you guys don't follow this stupid shit it's so dumb like we jump forward we move back we do this we do it was very cute yeah the time is the time if it's dark out early then it's dark out early why is it so troubling for people and I think I've

read somewhere that messes up the cows that they start milking the cows at an hour later or earlier the cows are on happy and everybody's flawed have you well it increases heart attack something in the neighborhood of 20 plus percent and then when you gain an hour sleep there's a subsequent decrease in heart rate heart attacks rather that's very similar as well somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% well the point I think is this that we're all very busy there's a lot of stuff going on everybody has limited bandwidth but

in to save on sleep that's not the right place and I completely agree now what about do do anything to recover like cryotherapy or any of those things ice baths right now no because it's just not logistically not very convenient but yeah I used to cut a hole in the ice and go dipping in there when I lived in cold places and have done things like that Russia has a long history of a practice called tempering and that goes back I don't know Sam

I'm sure he's we just pretty much cold exposure they figured out that does promote your nonspecific resistance to a lot of things colds and so on and so forth and more recent studies they found out that pretty much increases your resistance also so free radical damage and so on away

so cold is really good definitely is really good if you have a chance to do that

other things that are very good if they're used correctly is hypoxia hypercapnia pretty much breathing less but doing in the correct manner but there's something that you need to keep in mind when you start getting really fancy and all these different recovery modalities so all these different supplements and massages and what have or whatever that was also I believe but I feel so far above who made a point of that that accelerating the recovery first of all accelerating the rate

eight of adaptation is just just not normal again is going to be less stable and second that just makes your body less able to handle by itself hmm so-so spoiling yourself with it

I think so it again not my specialty but I think it should be used judiciously and I also think that too many people are starting to get into the fancy cryotherapy this or fancy supplement or machine that before they've just taken care of Basics hmm so what are the basics if you are

let's say that you are okay for an athlete or for a normal person so what are the basics for health for normal person obviously we discussed earlier you want to have type II fibers and mitochondria in the when you're older so that means you've got to lift heavier fast there's no other way there's no Third Way and you just have to find exercises that your body can tolerate

the next thing is obviously have to do something for your heart it's not in that much so whatever lame government guidelines are out there usually that will suffice for that then today we know about sleep obviously and today we also know about other ways of promoting this overall resilience and again cold things like cold things like

things like vegetables but strength for the for the athlete so I guess if you get your if your guests your dial you're eating and I'm getting what is the correct eating I have no clue but I tell you what there is probably a couple things that most experts would agree on they're probably tell you lay off the sugar and heat some green vegetables whatever probably everybody except for those kind of guys will agree on that so get your nutrition

then get your sleep dialed in then get strong so I named our organization strong first because that's the primary quality so about the symmetry of he made a point that that's the mother of all qualities upon the foundation of strength you build endurance you build speed evil power you build resilience everything so get strong have your joint mobility in order have some amount of endurance the minimum if you just did for health again those

government guidelines her enough more if your sport requires that then get great coaching and then when you almost a contender and then you can start fooling around with all the you know additional stuff on the periphery those things are really personal they're really expensive second of all some of these modalities but second of all you know you might get some microscopic fraction of a percent of improvement to your performance

and if you're training for the Olympics it's absolutely worth it but if you're not you got to consider the point of diminishing returns so like what are you doing with your life what are you spending your time on and the point of diminishing returns happens in everything so it's again if you just want to be healthy

you don't want to hammer win just one thing like oh I just want to build up my deadlift to its highest level or I just want to run the fastest 5K you turn your deadlift you do some running

you eat healthy maybe you add some cold exposure maybe add some hypoxia maybe eat your vegetables you know so adding each successive thing you get to the point of diminishing returns but if you decide to be a specialist you still have to do the general work what about sauna great use it hmm Sana is great for a lot of different reasons right now normally they just talk about things on micro circulation which is all good heat shock proteins which is oh very good

but there's also something else

there is a very interesting phenomenon that

it's called are mad what does it stand for something about acute react or relaxation reaction to stress I don't recall the acronym exactly how it goes but hypothermia hyperthermia heat is amongst of the stimulus hypoxia as well that allows you to develop a reaction in your body that in response to stress you can be more relaxed so this is kind of an interesting thing

so it's definitely healthy thing definitely

we'll listen man we taking up a lot of your time and I appreciate you very much and I appreciate all the work that you've done and like I said I've been a big fan for a long time I've heard you thank someone wants to find a gym that follows your protocols where's where's the best way go to a strong first.com first is spelled out and we do have a director of accredited gyms in the US and elsewhere and also our certified instructors as well and your most recent book my

most recent book is the quick and the dead total training for the advancement of malice but that is for the advancement of most so I presume that's not for the majority of listeners so I also bought the same time came out with the updated edition of my kettlebell simple and Sinister and that I believe firmly believe is the book for most people to most people whether it's Grandma Betty or Ranger Joe that d'etre know to get started on all right Pete

careful well thank you very much thank you sir thank you alright bye everybody

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