#657 - Corey Knowlton

Jun 8, 2015

Corey Knowlton is an international hunting expert, known recently for winning a $350,000 auction to kill a black rhino in Namibia. He is also known for working with hunter Jim Shockey on television shows "The Professionals" and "Uncharted"

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today is controversial to say the least his name is Corey Knowlton and he is the guy that bid 350 thousand dollars to go hunt and kill a black rhino hmm know a lot of you're like fuck that guy man man it is it is a very complex and fascinating subject the subject of conservation and the subject of

paying for a hunt like that and what this Hunt is all about I enjoy talking to them and I think I think you're gonna get a lot out of it if you're interested in the subject so without any further Ado please welcome Corey nope

The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day

good all right good luck this is a perfect time for me to talk to you about this because I just took a yoga class and had a vegan lunch awesome how do you feel I feel like Namaste I feel centered yeah I feel like my chakras are in line I feel fine what were you were you wear it to have a vegan lunch did you travel over there with what's called Ron I know to like a car without leather seats no no no it was yeah it's not really a vegan lunch yeah car had leather seats yes so then also on top of that like your tofu

meat-flavored not enough tofu just vegetables okay well vegetable that I did say it tastes like vegetables I did kill a mosquito soon as I got out of my car so I don't think that's vegan either well sounds like you're a murderer sounds like it to me Cory if you don't know Knowlton last one right we were at pronouncing his name one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on this podcast is I'm a big fan of Jim sake Jim Shockey show the Uncharted show and something on my nose

and I'd seen you on that show so when the controversy broke CNN covered the story for folks who don't know what we're talking about Cory you bid money to be one of the people that got a chance to kill a black rhino for people who are not aware of how conservation and hunting work what they try to do especially with endangered species is

they have to sometimes protect endangered species from their own and it seems very counterintuitive for people who are on the outside looking in you say well this is an endangered animal why are you killing one of these endangered animals and trying to call this conservation but with rhinos in particular or a lot of aggressive animals even giraffes the older males the older Bulls the older non-breeding members of

these groups sometimes will attack the young males and kill them and females and female and cap will kill everything and it is just a natural part of being wild animal when the numbers are strong and healthy it's like it happens in Bears every day of the week it's just a part of being a bear but when it happens with something that's endangered like a black rhino they're forced into a very peculiar situation where they have to

most likely either kill or put this animal in captivity my right the lot of different different situations depending on the animal what it's actually doing right but yes I mean some of the things you're talking about could apply and this is where it gets counterintuitive so they have a bid and the bid gets to you you want it like what is it three hundred and fifty thousand dollars correct it's a lot of fucking money and you went over there you

this rhino all that money went towards aiding the Rhino wasn't it wasn't enough money wasn't it should have been a lot more money because they need more money or baptized with a need more money and the value of that was greater than that amount of money was that was the amount of money that I was able to claw together and make happen the anti-hunting community in the animal rights Community came out so strongly against the situation for

what I think either misunderstanding or they were trying to keep the contribution down one of the other or both and there's people who were much wealthier than I am and have a lot more money who really wanted to spend the money but at the time I don't think that they will they had a better idea of what was to come than I did I guess I was a little bit naive about it but these people are a couple of

we're very well-known people and I don't think they wanted to put their employees in their company and you know they're alive they're family to the same things that I end up going through and they were basically chased out by the anti-hunting communities rhetoric and their attacks

what what was surprising to you about this whole experience because it had to be a pretty life-changing experience like you're a guy who's you know relatively famous in the hunting world you being on that Jim chalky show and you decide that you want to be the guy so you you spend all this money what was your goal when you want to do this did you want to bring awareness to this was it something that you felt strongly about from the very beginning well I've always felt very strongly about

vacation and hunting okay ever since I was young and but the way this came about was a friend of mine who runs a company called conservation force or a non-profit 501 c 3 and he came to me and said look people I had that are bidding on this or gone and he asked me if I would bid on it and the bid that I made was basically within very close

to the minimum bit there was really no one else

really the minimum bid was 350,000 well so you got to keep in mind they sell these over in Namibia they have auctions among themselves this is the first one that took place in the United States that's why I brought so much publicity this wasn't the first Rhino that was be brought in the United States so this is something that happened before just not on a public stage in the United States so they are able to get a certain amount of money already for them and they wanted to get more over here that was the whole idea and so they brought it

here the permanent Secretary of the namibian ministry of environment tourism him and basically they're in one of the Rhino experts the country came over and took place they were there at the auction when it took place so the the amount of money that gets raised is this enormous amount $350,000 in your opinion is low it would have probably been much more if there wasn't a knot in my in the opinion of many in fact low and I

leave it will come about again but probably in a different way and it's going to be at least I would say three times higher so they're going to do it again I don't think they're going to do it again in the fashion they did they're absolutely going to do it again but they're not going to do in the fashion they did this time I don't think I can tell look I don't speak for them so I don't know no yes they will continue to auction off these Surplus rhinos and it's not hard to get people to to be willing to do this but in order to get people to spend $350,000 to say

the Rhino just to just to donate to save it without hunting it's pretty difficult I actually think that's more complicated to because in this situation that I was in the money had to be proved to go to the right places to benefit the Rhino the path had to be proven to the US fish and wildlife for them to Grant the import permit so it was went through the process which was like the most vetted process possible on every level it was the most

most vetted conservation hunt probably in history and they do these hunts like this here in the United States all the time they auction off dear special deer tag special elk tags special sheep tags okay this should this year I was in auction where a mule dirt I went for $385,000 so they do these all the time to raise money

so it's not like a new idea but in this case it was the most vetted way for the money to get to the source that and I believe in conservation I believe in hunting is a means as a tool to help perpetuate it and keep these animals alive so I had a personal vested interest in the process so and there's other people like me who feel the same way and they are happy to donate to that like you're saying just to get

to do it well where do I get it to how do I know the money's going the right place right it's like similar to like I don't know if you know about the the Red Cross controversy did you see that that just came out a couple days ago about Haiti that they millions and millions and millions of dollars went to Haiti to help people after what was the big earthquake they had is that what it was and they built like five houses like they don't even know where most the fucking money went it's just a complete fuck fest look at this half

a billion dollars spent six homes built Jesus Christ well I think that speaks to the point that I was trying to make yeah and and that's obviously a different scenario we're talking to no who knows what that is you're looking at you look at your news source their salon.com is the greatest news yeah very good so unbiased they love everyone equally so what did they have to say about you I think mean well yes most most most everybody who had an agenda to it that was it

that's what the whole process of what I was doing and this goes from all the way from the head of the US fish and wildlife to you know trying to make make it look likes IDs and iucn aren't the world's foremost you know experts okay especially those companies what is that iucn's a group that puts together the red list of endangered species okay they are the foremost experts on the subject and a guy named Michael Knight heads up that African rhino

no Specialist Group and he's the foremost expert in the world on rhinos okay so you got you have the world's foremost experts in this you had to WWF a guy named Chris Weaver in Namibia who had set up yet WWF behind it yet iucn behind it yet side he's behind it you had us fish and wildlife which you know I've come down on two different sides with them sometimes I agree with them sometimes I don't okay but in this case I absolutely agree with them so you had like the foremost authorities in the world all agreeing with this and then you have

a large amount of people who type in 75 characters on Twitter and feel better about it and you know they're they're weighing in and in today's day and age you look at that and it's like a handful of people who are emotional about something outweigh public you know I mean the the experts of the world opinion well it becomes very controversial first of all because it went on at the same time as they were broadcasting another species of

I know that was going extinct there was three of them left one male two women and the male wasn't breeding with them and they were like this is it you're looking at the last three of these rhinos sure

and it also part of the reason is it falls into this category that people call trophy hunting and it's very different than going to the supermarket and buying meat from an animal that was killed for meat the idea of trophy hunting bothers a lot of people because they think what you're doing is you're going over there and you're shooting something to prop up your ego you shooting something because you know you want to be the master you want to go over there and blast this thing and take a picture grip and grin and smile I

that's like a I'm sure throughout history that's existed but I don't think that that's a accurate representation of people who you can call trophy hunting whatever you want I mean you can put it on if you're out there looking for the biggest cow elk because you want the meat all right you're being selective about which one you're picking okay so for what the the truth about lets you know quote unquote trophy hunting is you're going out there looking for the most mature male of the species that you can find okay and you're going through a

active process and I think there is amongst Hunters there's definitely a movement going you know Jim and I used to talk about it all the time we would go out we're looking for the oldest male of the species we can find okay because that's the best one to take out he's already breeded he's going to go down he's going to fall over dead on the mountain if it's a ram and birds are going to pick his eyes out while he's alive okay is going to go through a horrible death and we're going to spare that animal that

and so there's a lot that goes into that and I understand people say okay that that's what it is Joe like for instance you know I just met you today and my idea of who you are isn't who Joe Rogan is the only person that know who Joe Rogan is Joe I think sometimes people know Jamie knows okay well whatever all right and reality you the only person okay thoughts okay mommy when is I can't put why you the decisions you got brought you to where you are right now I don't know what that

is okay and in this case I had hundreds of thousands of people at this sucker I'm sorry so I had hundreds of thousands of people trying to say you did this for this reason right they don't know what reason I did it for right they never talk to me the never met me okay and so yeah okay you want to go ahead and lump everybody in there because it's easy for you to disenfranchise them well you're defending yourself here and I would be defensive to if I experience the kind of barrage of hate

I've seen leveled your way but that's one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on as give you a chance over you know a couple hours to speak your mind yeah and so what people have a problem with I think is people that want to kill things and don't eat them this some people that have a problem with you eating meat is some people have a problem with eating fish some people you know some people go deep with it right I think there's varying degrees of outrage when it comes to people killing animals but at the top of that list is what they call trophy hunting

and that's an an that's someone who kills it that doesn't have any intention of eating it if you kill a mature mule deer because it has an awesome rack and you still going to eat that animal it's still free to your delicious you're gonna donate it you're gonna do something with it yeah it's delicious food and it's there's a reason why people hunt them because they taste fantastic its high quality proteins great for you you're not eating a rhino right did you eat it absolutely the first thing you ate it right there on the spot did you absolutely what does it taste like it was better than elephant really yeah

elephant sure whoa Does that taste like not as good as Rhino so what part of the Rhino do you eat right well we delivered the entire thing to a whole village you know our group wasn't hungry enough to eat the entire Rhino right there I would imagine yeah how many thousands of pounds was this thing by the way you know I guess it was between 2,500 and 3,000 be my guess is a large animal and this did they have any Refrigeration in this Village or is it's just that you know to the extent know there was so many

any people that that wasn't going to be a large issue

you have seen that before with an elephant hunt on television it was a documentary on the controversy in these hunting camps in South Africa and they shot this elephant and donated to these villagers these people came with baskets and stuff these baskets with elephant meat and they cut that entire carcass down to bite-sized portions or meal size portions and just a matter of a few hours it was insane it was crazy to watch so when people

think of this being just a waste just killing the sound wrong they're wrong a hundred percent that wasn't really discussed at all on the news that was never recovered and obviously one article that covered the fact that they did set it to people yes we did there's a video of it on CNN did they shove article absolutely eating of it to the absolutely I got pictures I don't Sloan there you go I'll show you ride to leave you a hundred percent well look question we'll look I want to show you okay you're sitting across from me right now

and I'm looking at the CNN article I don't see any pictures of it they go to the meat delivery just is there a link in there it should be I've got it on my phone but for instance here's me standing in front of the village of selfie with the entire rib cages of that animal whoa

wow see you after the black rhino hunt a village celebrates meat delivery okay this is it has a separate video other than one that I had watched which was the title of that was Texas Hunter bags his Rhino and controversial hunt in the media yeah so not so controversial to the people that you've delivered the meat to absolutely not those people like if you look at them they're very excited to get this protein an elephant yeah the idea of me twice

in Africa isn't that look in the United States it's hard for us to comprehend it because we've got a system of such excess that the poorest keep the poorest Among Us are the most overweight you go to Africa a poor person is Skin and Bones right okay you know people say the money money is the root of all evil poverty's root of all evil you go over there and see it firsthand horrible

and so they're not waste an ounce of that mean

now this this animal had been targeted because it killed one young bull already and it was an older angry male with not a whole lot of time left right is that the idea that's correct and it is I believe it had killed more than that through its live it had been transported already to this area like when it was and around 19 years old and now how old are they live I'll look up I saw a list that had them there and they have them alive

the field listed over 37 years old wow so you know they leave at least that long

you're not that old how old are you I'm 36 years old how long you been doing this big game wild hunting that I got into it when I was a strike started guiding hunts when I was 16 years old you started guiding hunts when you're 16 my first my first I graduated high school I was guiding hunts through high school what kind of hunt Whitetail know like ducks and ducks and geese and stuff and then I slowly got into hunting it's what do just became a passion to me we grew up real real poor I just

if all the time when I see people talk about how you know like I'm some rich over you know super talk about my family in the oil business and whatnot I was already before my my brother my father their partner had any success in a little bit man I was in my 20s I was you know I'd already charted my path and was going like I said I wasn't aware you back when I was going to ask you that to where the fuck did you come up with $350,000 a lot well you know luckily I mean I've been successful in life and I'm especially in Huntington

so I was very successful and guiding hunts and and setting up hunts that's that's how Jim and I got together I was booking hunts all around the world but anyway so I started when I was like 16 taking people duck and goose hunting in Texas is you know obviously a different place on how much time you spent in Texas but hunting Texas yeah Texas hunting and fishing is a part of life it's just for the most part it's very accepted okay and even if you don't do it you

of a family member that does you got a buddy that work does and so people I mean I'm telling people in Texas aren't that judgmental really I mean about this at least and so anyway you know we're all growing up together as a family and it's a part of our thing you know and my granddad what we were I mean I'll grew up in poverty when I was real young and what we had to do was go hunting and fishing you know and we we got I mean I didn't ever got I don't think I shot my first deer tell it was you know 15 or 16 years

old and so I did this bird hunting and then I graduated high school and I went and got a job working for a guy in Colorado gotten mountain lion hunts and then I you know got another started another business up with floor tile made money and I was saving my money up to go hunting and I met another guy a guy named Erin Nielsen and him and I start up a company together and we started taking people on Hunt's we'd say we'd go on these different hunts in ourselves we go there find the area check it out and go

these adventures and then come back and get people together and go on more of them and it's kind of snowballed so all in all when I met Jim and two thousand one or two back then you know I was just getting into it and already you know knew quite a bit I'd already hunted Africa already gone through a lot of places in the world and just got into it and said hey Jim you want to go to Africa and we went and that was his first African trip and we went over there had a great trip

and it for a video at the time he goes on and becomes more successful as TV stuff I keep doing what I did and then fuel a few years later we came up with this idea to start this TV show about our lives as Professionals in the hunting industry and we called it the professionals and because personally Jim and I would talk about it and I'm not gonna speak down about these people but are at the time on the outdoor television world you know which is a different thing than most TV

a lot of ways I think you've talked about on your podcast before we were like well a lot of these people are calling they're saying they're professionals but they're getting like a Freebo you know we're actually making our livings doing this you know taking people hunting and outfitting and guiding and whatnot we just wants also the quality of the show yeah true yeah sounds shows are excellent they're really well done especially Uncharted could easily be on the Discovery Channel or the History Channel minute is a great show yeah and so that was kind of our goal we wanted to Chronicle this

this and make the production level as high as we could and show people that you know there is a human side to this and and that's what was our goal so do you get frustrated when you watch like there's some reality or not reality shows there's some hunting shows that are on television that you know are essentially like cable access shows I mean they just really poorly made bad at itting bad personalities I mean that's those guys dream I'm not going to say I get frustrated at it you know it's just like it's just like everybody who plays

baseball's not going to be Mickey Mantle right so I mean I feel an obligation when people flip through the channels and they pause on Marlo shows and they that that's their exposure to hunting yeah I mean I don't know that it every single one of them even ours would be a true representation of all of hunting you know what I mean so it's hard you know I feel like we strive for that I really I mean personally it look I watched a lot watch hunting shows because I lived it you know what I mean I really lived it

it to the fullest I've Been Everywhere I could have ever dreamed of and seeing everything so it's hard for me to watch it you know it'd be like you you're going outside of all the fights you've watching you know are you going to get really excited about watching two bums duke it out in front of the student unfortunately yes okay it still that's why I'm wrong with some good okay it's so good at what you do I like watching little kids beat each other up okay all right sorry along is no way we're gonna miss but I see your point I totally see your point

what you so you started out hunting essentially for food well yeah well no for it was part of we ate a part of life and part of life you know I mean I grew up we went hunting we shot does was shocked well we hate them okay we went fishing we were catching the early sand boiling grease right okay we're catching crappie and eating them that was right part alive how did you go from that to shooting an elephant well if you really like hunting and you go over there and you learn more about it you know and you have a passion for

it you if that's what you want to do you just go right but what what leads you to want to shoot an elephant like what personally yes

I just loved hunting I love the idea of being out there love the idea of being with local people I love the idea of seeing the way it worked in the other parts of the world I mean I had like I had a burning crazy desire to go experience nature right okay and and be a part of the cycle of life in an intimate way everywhere I could go like people don't realize it I don't think and it's hard you know like I'm really I'll get into it later with you really interested

your path that brought you to it I'm sure you've talked on it and we don't have to talk on it could you probably right now it doesn't bother you know if you've talked about your listeners get bored of it or whatever but I'd really like to know it okay because you probably understand I don't want to like speak for you but when you're that close to an animal when you're within bow range of an animal it's a different experience than you have going to 7-Eleven or whatever you're going to have a normal life and so in a way that would be the way I would translate it I just wanted to go

go everywhere I possibly could and I read everything I possibly could and I learned everything I possibly could especially about I had a real passion for Asia I've hunted all over Asia everywhere that I could go in age I went you know I could go down the list it astonish you and so I went over there and an Asian hunting is by and large brutally hard was that I mean I mean we went to Nepal Europe to almost 17,000 feet you know you walk in you walk out

you know your whole Camp is being carried in or carrying out a lot of times and if your backpack hunting you're carrying everything you live in you know I mean I'm 36 years old going on like 86 years old because of all the diseases and and stuff my body's been through you know for Jody that child I never had Giardia but I had a I had one they couldn't figure out the Mayo Clinic one time like and I was killing me and then I had malaria had that I've had numerous other infectious diseases

Jesus that were you know destroying my butt at 20 let me thank was 22 years old I got malaria and my fever got so bad that my gums were immediately like a 40 year old person so your gums will ya like a fever damage your guns like gums I guess I'm not a doctor just what they told me but is what happens to your gums not well man it's something has to do with high fever for a long time I don't know so we just like makes your gums recede you have all dude malaria is a bad deal yeah I've had a friend who had malaria yeah and

so I didn't catch it till later part of the problem is like the medicines they give you make you feel bad right so you don't really notice it coming on at first it's almost better in some circumstances just not to take the profit Logics and I'm not going to say anybody should do that but personally I do that a lot unless I just know I'm in a solid malaria area and then you'll know that it's coming on sooner because by the time it hit me I was really sick so you talking about the anti-malaria medication you take before you get it yes yeah I had a friend who took that and he was drinking

and apparently you're not supposed to take it and drink and he went crazy like he got violent and the parallel possibly larium the one you take one think that was exactly what it was yeah yeah it'll make you hallucinate and freaked out people will hear you say that you have a passion for it you know and that you love being in wildlife and I understand that but they the big question would be why not just go there and see those animals like why would you want to go and kill an elephant like what is what is it what is it about

you know it's the same thing it's hard for hard for me to put it in words but I mean I believe that human beings are part of the cycle life I believe your eyes are in the front of your head I believe you have canine teeth not for eating eating salad sounds good for you though it's great eat it have it out okay and so I believe that's why you have them I believe that we are predators I believe it's a part of us right and so for me to explain something that is a part of me it's hard like that it's hard for me to say and and I think people

caught up in what you just enjoy the killing it it's like you don't you don't hunt to kill its you killed of hunted and a lot of ways and I've been on 12 unsick hunt to kill you kill to have hunted what do you mean by that if you're a hunter you're going out hunting you're not going out killing if I like killing things I work at the chili chicken plant I get eleven thousand chickens every day and I really got a thrill out of killing stuff okay and

I've gone on like I've gone 12 like hunts that I went on unsuccessful she pumps and those are some of the best hunts that I've ever had and it wasn't anything about killing the animal or not killing the animal yeah it's a goal but that was kind of part of the reason that brought me to those places you're not going to go to these places man for no reason okay you're not thinking when people think about you know Africa they're thinking about the Masai Mara and a nice East African or Kruger Park type photo Safari you're not going into darkest Africa on the

the Congo or in the Congo or you know these nasty places in the world to go take pictures most people aren't going to do it not naive in the photo people you're going to get to like the raw still the raw going to go and do that stuff it's brutal on you it's not comfortable you go out and hang out with you know with the pygmies who are very tough people for instance been to Cameroon and they're waking up every morning a lot of them you know it's their lives are hard okay it's not a nice existence and you go out there and exist

them it's a different thing so you feel compelled to go to these places I would compelled to hunt absolutely but and see people that like if they found out you're killing you know what Antelope or something like that seems normal you know you shooting that you eat it but shooting an elephant to people they have a hard time with it because they're intelligent and their social creatures and they know each other for they having saying member all these animals are intelligent are they really

white-tailed deer they're hunted the really intelligent wolf extremely until those are very intelligent yeah okay there there look in a white in a night in eight way to stay alive they're very they're much more intelligent about their environment than you and I ever would because that's their home and they live in it so

it's a different thing and yeah elephants are they intelligent absolutely okay do they have ethics and emotions no I mean outside of you know raw is form I think it I've been around animals that I thought were angry well they definitely have emotions right they get upset at dead loved ones but ethics it's you know yeah human constructs and there you go yeah and that's what happens is when people are trying to apply human constructs to animals what right does the antelope

have not to be killed by the Jaguar

our I'm sorry the leopard mmm what right does it have not to be killed by the leopard I mean it's a part of its life that's that make sense to people what doesn't make sense is the desire I think for some people there's a desire to go over there and shoot beautiful animals what's that what the whitetail deer beautiful is killed every day I agree but it seems normal to people because it's killed every day because we kill it we eat an elephant seems like something that you see at the circus it seems like something that's in been there you go there's a whole thing it's

there's 250 thousand elephants in sub-Saharan Africa how in danger does that sound to you yeah that's that's true I wanted to get to that but okay the current you ask normal people the average person with the average you know exposure to elephants they think they're endangered okay unfortunately it's not true in South subscriber knack for Africa in places like ca are it's true they're in trouble

and in these places sometimes they actually have to kill these elephants because they start encroaching and human territory and student think it was just right population control I know a guy who killed twelve hundred elephants Jesus Christ okay 1,200 why did he do that population control so he lives down there yeah well I don't know if he's still alive now but anyway yeah that was his thing what we work for the government kill them and when you do this you have to spend a considerable amount of money to kill an elephant

not necessarily no you consider considerable amount of money how much does it cost I mean you can go there sometimes I mean I know people have shot him for a couple thousand dollars you can shoot an elephant from copulate you're not you're not bringing the Tusk home you're shooting it and then the village eating it and what do they do with the tasks that would be like on a cow probably just a female and population troll I mean the least that I've ever heard anybody shooting a bull elephant for you know in recent times probably eight thousand dollars six thousand eight thousand bucks and then the government just keep stuff

and the government keeps a Tuscan does what with them I don't know depends what you know what did they put them in storage I don't know exactly what they do with them and that's a weird thing because of the ivory trade like gross the poaching and the ivory trade and that's what we see all the time when we connect elephants with death we see these animals they're sawed-off tusks and you know the rest was left behind that's poachers yeah it's criminals horrible criminals

so if you go over and you shoot an elephant shoot a bull elephant you can't bring the tusks back yes you can you can in certain like if you shoot one in South Africa and Namibia right now you can import them you can absolutely I thought there was a ban on importing every only in they shut down Zimbabwe until they change their structure it's not because there's not enough elephants there they have you know thousands and thousands of elephants in Tanzania they shut down the airport for for different reasons you know with regards to poach

one on and so the only thing that kills elephants is rarely Lions will kill them right I'd rather than people other elephants other elephants yeah and so it's one of those Apex animals that if people don't step in and do something about the population destroy the habitat and then get us about Botswana Botswana strad yeah Eastern botswana's bad that they destroyed it's like a tornado a lot of places I want to place the place that I hunted elephant wasn't Botswana and it really looked like a hurricane

Kanan come through it just look like the whole landscape was demolished and it was just because of alph absolutely you dealing with some enormous I mean how much how much does a big elephant way you know well over 10,000 pounds is 14 I mean the biggest one I've probably seen I would have guessed 14-foot tall it's a huge animal it's a different experience hunting elephant yeah I would imagine you know it's a totally different thing and you the thing that you have to understand there

there's different reasons to hunt different things okay you know it's not like a hunting is some giant giant just Broad

stroke and in the case of elephants you if you want people to to have a positive benefit local people who really determine like the survival of any animals local people okay you have to put a positive benefit on it for them if it's just living next door to an elephant you don't want that if it's living next door to a lion you don't want that okay and and so you're trying to understand that you have to give them a reason to keep it there or it's not going to be

did you ever see Louis the rose documentary on the hunting camps in Africa hmm it's very interesting it's very good if you don't know who Louis throw is he's a documentarian from the UK and he really gets very very thorough on subjects and he spent a lot of time in the South African hunting camp but it got down to the end of it and you know he was pastoring this guy who ran this Camp to the

point where the guy said you don't get it Ivory guy is fucked he goes it's fucked he goes day destroy the only Ray you just gonna keep these fucking animals as if there were something that's been a French pH I think he was the way you're done what he was yeah I mean I know to tell it's a hundred percent but that's what he's saying is that it has to be worth something dude I look at it like the people in a lot of people in Western world are looking at it through an ethereal mist and not getting it if it is if it pays it will

stay period right if it pays its going to stay do you think that part of the problem with people and their perceptions of hunting is just based on this really weird insulated world that we live in we could just go to the store and buy meat and most people hold on all the vast majority hundred percent let me be clear a hundred percent that's the problem that is the problem they need an aunt in addition to that they think that Timo and Pumbaa who are Disney characters created by a couple guys

and drawn up and give it personality daughter's love them okay and so do mine okay but they're not real exactly okay the real Team own and Pumbaa are out there fighting for their lives and would eat each other okay all right that's the way it works and we'd eat you they would eat you they will do anything like okay the real animals out there are doing anything they can to survive yeah you saw that woman who's the editor from Game of Thrones got pulled out of her car's out back yeah fuck that's a real life

Ian that's real line that's not a line king that's not know but even that wasn't a part situation fenced in yeah okay like and not one thing people don't like lying is a big deal with me I've hunted line been on many line honey you eat lines you don't eat lines in general Cameron Hayes is going to eat a line for shot it yeah well that deal would eat a shoe if you show that's fine but it's not the reason that's not the reason to go hunting line well what is the reason to go hunting line to in reality if you want to keep

turns around and wild areas that aren't part you have to have a local benefit for it that's the best reason you have to have some sort of financial incentive for the people in the area Financial incentive for people in the area and also prevents poachers by hiring Rangers well or just like for instance in this black rhino situation there wasn't anybody in there going to write out where these Black Rhinos were at you deal you go to South Africa and I was actually hunting in a place the other day that was in the middle of the Rhino War okay why was

are they killed a poacher the night that I wanted the nights I was there okay and it's a real deal those people are having to lie detector test their staff monthly okay it's real simple I saw this because the staff are poachers their staff were tipping off poachers whoa okay people in the government or tip methode's is easy deal okay well I just saw a white rhino in the black rhino you got to keep that in mind okay Black Rhinos what you shop yes and a white rhino which was brought back from 30 animals to

20,000 because of incentivizing people to own them and then being able to sell them on Hunting Market okay and for whatever other reasons they were put into private ownership they went from 30 animals to 20,000 wow okay the White Rhino is very docile and general not all of them okay and they're much I mean you would they're just easier to be around a black rhino has not a lot of Tolerance and wild areas I mean you saw that on our hot

it charged did tried to kill him okay so anyway White Rhino or just more docile they're going to be hanging around whatever that's easier for the poachers to kill and obviously there's more of them a lot more and so anyway it's just an easy animal for poachers to get and if they somebody sees it on the side of the road they tip off the local guy okay they were paying between $800,000 per bullet on the black market to kill these white rhino or any rhino

800 to a thousand dollars per bullet that's what a poacher would pay

I don't what do you mean by per bullet buying a bullet on the black market to put in this gun and go pocho Rhino pal they have to pay that much for a bullet that's what these people were paying because they got 375 you can't go kill a rhino in general with his freakin 22 right okay so to get a 375 or 458 bullet that's what they were paying to to get that bullet so they had to get the bullets through illegal means as well absolutely they're criminals right it's not like you and I are getting together and going out there and saying let's go kill a rhino today

okay and we're going to go get our bullets we bought fair and legal here in the United States or wherever we pop I think another issue that Louis Theroux caught covered in his documentary and that a lot of people are not aware of is that a lot of the lines or excuse me a lot of the animals in Africa that are being hunted on a regular basis were on the verge of Extinction just two days two decades ago maybe three okay and when they started doing those hunting camps now these animals are thriving and the reason why they're thriving is because they're worth money and that

the bothers people it bothers people the idea that the only way these animals are surviving and thriving is if somebody is willing to pay money to go over there and hunt them because these people who are sitting there looking at it ain't doing a damn thing to save them Joe okay they're saving them to death by making an uneducated comments and throwing up just type in 75 characters into Twitter or your Facebook page isn't saving a rhino it's making you feel better right and these people's feelings are in the way of the actual concert

servation of wildlife through the people who know how to conserve wildlife well this is something that for me as an outsider who's slowly ventured into the world of hunting I had to learn and that's why I kind of sympathize with the people that are on the outside that aren't aware of all this when someone says yeah I couldn't imagine someone going to Africa and shooting these animals it's so fucked up I take a deep breath right I wanted to find conversation Define define what you just said what screwed up about it well what's they their idea is that you're going

there with bloodlust you're on this this orgy of murder over there gunning down all these different animals and posing with their their heads that's their icy yeah and it's wrong well it also it doesn't cover the reality of the money that's involved in paying for those tags and going over there and flying over there and paying for these hunting camps to stay open as kept these animals and enormous populations where they were dying off just 20 years ago that's a reality and it's the

only reality that we have documented in Africa right now as far as conservation of a lot of these game especially outside the Parks look a lot of a lot of the parts are spared because they're surrounded by game Management areas and yeah okay and hunting areas and sometimes they have to take those parks and they have to have either someone come in and minimalize or control the population and kill some of the animals because they get too high or they have to open them up for hunters

yeah I guess the best way I can put this is this most everybody would agree that humans are complicit in the plight of a lot of these animals do you agree with that yes okay then why shouldn't humans be complicit in saving them and keeping them around okay through a traditional method that has worked in conservation for hundreds and hundreds of years look the idea not to hunt wasn't a part of humanity Humanity for just recently maybe laugh

couple hundred years into the Forefront maybe the last 30 to 50 years okay it wasn't a knife it wasn't nobody thought about it we're going hunting well before Refrigeration or what was like one of the only what we have to do on a regular basis 75 years ago we were basically an agrarian society and a lot more ways right and people looked they had if they're going to have lamb chops are going out there and killing that lamb right there okay how many people who eat lamb chops today are going to go out and kill that lamb almost none and that's where it gets weird it's very weird and

you and I heard you speak about becomes very hypocritical it is it's a hundred percent hypocritical because it's all so wild that the hypocritical is the most common its more common to be hypocritical about me than it is to not because of this system that we've set up it's very effective that allows you to go to any store anywhere you want just by me I instantly how long did it become how long did it take you to truly understand martial arts and everything about it the long time and you still don't know everything I know okay but how am I

how many years I think I was probably just getting started about 10 years in would you look like do you do you think most people would consider you an expert in martial arts if not I don't know who is okay I mean I get paid to do it so okay you get paid to do it it's your life right so if I was going to ask you a question about martial arts are removing martial arts or what it took you give me a good answer okay when it comes to this most Styles okay Styles I don't know that much about then it's no different in this look I've watched

I can't tell how many fights that you've done okay to eat that you've been color for okay and I can set there and say this or that or the other but to be inside that ring I can't imagine what that's like so I'm not going to say I know what it's like to be one of these ultimate athletes I can't imagine what that's like I can't imagine what you put your mind through your family through everything

it's the exact same thing with this all right I've done this since I was 16 years old now I'm not an expert on wildlife management or wildlife biology I trust experts when it comes to hunting pretty close to his you know you could ask almost everybody in the international Hunting Community I think that would say the court knows a lot about it so it's you have to be in it to really understand it okay you can't just be from the outside in and what it comes is there's so much look hate and anger

lowest hanging fruit it's the easiest thing to reach to and today we're in a era of rush to outrage this technological technological social media world as it's just like a giant boom shipped and I think we're still lost in that and and 20 years ago if I went on a rhino hunt nobody would have known about it nobody would have cared about it they know hunting exist maybe they do maybe they don't and things went long now the squeakiest wheel gets the grease the people who are the most outraged okay

they talk about it they scream about it and if you're someone who gets a lot of attention like your actor comedian whatever they're looking at these people you know at their comments and they look at the headline they don't look into it any more than that because we have a very short attention span news now is headline headline headline headline headline trust me I know I've been a part of it you know this will have talked about the black rhino lat it goes away and if some event came up and come right back and it soon as it comes up it's gone again you know next and four

alright people they'll be somebody who will kill a dolphin or stab a frog or whatever and they'll move on to that so have you had a debate with anybody in the animal rights movement lots of them and what was what was their take on this when you when you try to explain your point of view he tried to explain that this is an aggressive older male that's not breathing anymore that had killed at least one young bull was a danger to the breeding population of an extinct or endangered rather let me show you again

animal rights movement like a hardcore I've talked to a few of them okay and after they get done talking to me almost every one of them you know find some Middle Ground okay Animal Welfare which will I would say there's a huge difference between animal rights and Animal Welfare Animal Welfare I promise you or you and me nobody wants to see an animal mistreated nobody wants to see an animal suffer we understand that animals are used for part of human human humanity and we probably wouldn't survive in the world without them the way we do now okay

animal rights is a totally different thing all right to some of those people it's a religion okay it's it is their life I would agree with you okay you know somebody like I watched you know I really hate but there was a person that you did a show you talk with on Opie and Anthony a while back who's a one of the leaders of written gervase yeah and so he comes out and says things and you know he said a bunch of inflammatory things towards me and towards anybody else right and it's not it's not it's about

is emotion about it it's not about if that the facts were helping the black rhino survive these people would rather they're not be an interaction with humans and animals they think the second of freedom of you releasing your pet okay some of them is and if he got hit by a car right over there that minute of freedom is better than a lifetime of being JoJo ruins pet they obviously haven't seen my dog okay and then they lump there are they want pets in they want pets and I'm sorry they lump Animal Welfare in

with them they tried to make like that they're bigger because they get these Animal Welfare people and a lot of those Animal Welfare people hate that they don't want to be lumped in with them you know because they know that you know like Michael J fox said that he didn't look at an ant and he you know life of any more or less viable valuable than the life of his son but yeah he really said that check it out bro yeah but he's got a disease that shit's fucking ones brain okay well I think this was a long time ago but anyway they say a lot of things like that

it's an insane thing to say okay but that's that's that's obviously you're talking about a certain that religious side of it ideological side and the problem they have really especially with me is that I had a gigantic mountain of facts and scientific material wildlife biology on my side of the argument I talked with a guy for a different show they're doing a documentary on this

show called Radiolab I don't know if you know yes I do yeah they did love that show they did to our dock you for I don't know how long it's gonna be there doing a huge documentary one of the guys came over with me on this hunt and I talked with a this guy Robert I don't know what his last name is crow witch or something because you know I'm talking about I know exactly okay well big fan of that show okay so I talked with him at length last week and a half ago mmm 90 minute conversation and what I found is the more intelligent the person

you have this debate with the much easier the debate is to have and so I talked to him about it he didn't get it he didn't get like you know what drives you or me to go hunting hmm But he told me I had one of the best heart arguments if not the best he'd ever gone up against that this placing value on them is going to keep them around at the end of it at the very end of the conversation he was like Cory you know you have a really great

sense of honour for this and I really respect it is refreshing and I think you're right and so but it took 90 minutes of going through like I said that ethereal mist of all the BS it's out here about this manufactured outrage manufactured outrage okay but a lot of times when people are profiting off of it I mean Peter you know killing all these pets you know however many they have yeah that's a hard part for people to swallow okay they don't know child

people if they don't know the facts Bible they're killing thousands of pets here they just euthanize them because they can't take care of them they don't have their disabilities okay so it's extremely hypocritical and how the fuck do they justify that I'm there's no kill animal shelters I don't understand how they don't run something like that look spay and neuter your pets if all this beds are spayed or neutered they can be any time any pets left right okay it's

you're dealing with you're dealing with almost psychotic level ideological people you know my favorite ones are the people break into restaurants and release lobsters back into the ocean that's great you know I can tell you this for these people who called up and are called me sent me messages threatened to kill my children Sutton it burn my house down right my wife every single thing that you could ever

imagine I mean for those people to say they're going to do that just in and of itself is ridiculous and hypocritical right okay you're against killing but you're willing to kill me you want to kill and rape and have children he'll babies absolutely nothing to do with the Rhino at all another diluting it with my wife hunts my kids and I guess I want to kill him for that they want to kill him they look I'm mad it's not about what you're doing it's about my feelings and my feelings are more important than what you're doing if it's right or wrong and

what they want to do is show you some how or another what it's like to be feared or to be in fear to be you know Hunter came to my face Joe and said one thing how about zero yeah zero yeah most people wouldn't okay and I will sit here and talk with any of them well I think that's a real problem social media the real problems anonymity and the lack of the social consequences when if I look at you in the eye and I say something really fucked up to you and you raise your eyebrows and me like what the fuck did you just say and then we I feel that and you feel

now I feel it but when you say something mean on Facebook it hits that person you say I hope you're fucking whole family dies in a fire you know those Ryan's rhinos are Majestic you go on about your day you don't even get a response back you don't feel anything yeah in that and that that makes him mad too but I responded a lots of them well obviously tweet him I let other people respond I had a bunch of people angry at me because I went bear hunting and I just retweeted a lot of their shit and like you're a bully you know you're a bully you sick your fucking followers I own sick anybody you

some shit on the internet I let people know about it I didn't even say anything guide look at it do you did you do you feel and how many people came out after you about the bear a lot a lot but I feel like there was a tremendous amount of ignorance on their part first of all because I do eat bear people were saying you know you're killing it you know on eating it absolutely it it I like eating them they're delicious and you have to keep the population down and you also you're dealing with an animal that kills The Fawns of all the moves all the elk all the deer that live

they're your facts are getting the way their feelings it's true well it's also what Steve rinella has this great phrase called charismatic megafauna and the anthropomorphic ation of these animals like Yogi Bear and we need to poo they are locked into people's heads he's fucking Disney depictions of bears are locked in people's heads this is what saving the animals to death well you know what it is is just it's not doing a damn thing but getting all people getting riled outraged as keeping people look at kept the contribution for more money

unnie going you see I'm saying well in California it's fucking up a lot of things California these ideas have actually mean California isn't even have a fish and game department of fish and wildlife yeah well let's say they can call it what they call it what they call it it's run by people who were more animal activists and they are pro hunting I don't know Mount have no mountain lion season here yeah and because of that there's not a fucking mountain lion so no no no doubt about it there's a place called Dawn Ranch that I hunt out of they have one water hole that they have a trail cam on

found 16 different mountain lions what's in Balance about what's imbalance about that there's no balance that's crazy these are the guys who work on the ranch they don't like it at all not a goddamn thing they can do unless one of them is threatening unless one of them takes out livestock or becomes a threat to people they can't do a damn thing about it and when that does happen then they have to fill out all this paperwork it becomes like a huge nightmare they get investigated mmm that's why we have a ton of game animals in Texas and we don't have a ton of mountain lions and that's how it should

it should be it's not like the mountain lion population is endangered not any way shape or form but their goddamn predators and they don't give a fuck about your kids they don't give a fuck about your mom they don't give a fuck about anybody that might have to be on that trail not gonna have the Predators for ethical treatment of humans yeah do you think mountain lions get tweeted when they kill someone's dog it's a look at it we're dealing with the extreme hypocritical situation we're dealing with an extreme lack of knowledge about the subject matter and we're dealing with

people's emotions and look I have a lot of compassion for their emotions I understand it okay I care about these animals to they may not get it okay and to me I've definitely did everything I could from a personal standpoint of once I was involved with a situation I went to the more liberal media Outlets to bring it to this okay I could have gone on Fox News and I've been preaching the choir when I brought CNN with me on the hunt hmm hey dude okay so I I went over there I

was very very honest and upfront with them about everything that I went through everything they saw they came and saw the entire thing and so if you if you the what I've seen is they got attacked because they said this was a ridiculous you know y'all were so behind him and involved this man that is crap well you know what that is is if you don't share the opinions of the people that oppose it then you're some sort of a shield yeah they did they did yes absolutely once they get there and that's the reality

situation man I had some conversations with people about this when this thing went down and I said look I'm not going over there to shoot any rhinos I'm not no desire to shoot a rhino but you got to pay attention to what you're talking about because you can't just talk shit and say this guy's an asshole in this didn't like Rhino didn't need to be killed you have to look at it from a balanced perspective objectively with no ideology attached to it and when you do that you realize that there's a lot of people a lot of conservationists a

lot of biologists who are pro culling of certain animals in any population to keep that population healthy its again it seems counterintuitive but it's important what seems counterintuitive about it well it seems counterintuitive to the people outside there's you looking at I'm going to kill an animal to save the animal let's talk about the term endangered for a second go with that yes

very crude drawing here of Africa and let's say that if an animal is up here okay and then you have or animal down here those are two separate populations you did you made Africa you cut it in half and I went to goals and I went to South okay so our what they consider East African right all right if an animal up here is in trouble and there's tons of them down here you're going to see

let you know whatever animal it is but not going to use any specific on endangered when the next this animal the same species is fine right okay well but also because Africa is fucking gigantic it's gigantic this if you look at Africa this is United States yeah we've shown that aren't on the set before we've taken an image of the continent of Africa and you can put everything in there you put China in there you put United States every South America yeah Rush is pretty goddamn well I flew in a row across Russia one time nine

hours and never left the country whoa so big ass country so anyway if the animal appear is it's going to be on the endangered species list even though it's fine down here right okay so for instance in Namibia if you pull up go ahead and pull up South Western black rhino on Wikipedia

okay and then I'll kind of walk you through this a little bit I want to see him pull it up and let's see if he pulls up the right one South Western black rhino is a different species subspecies okay so it varies genetically in some sort of way okay now look right there at the conservation status of the South Western black rhino

conservation status okay what does that say Vu threatened their owners all vulnerable does it not say endangered no it doesn't say endangered says vulnerable what's the hell's wow why is it while because it's not endangered in the midia it's not endangered is considered vulnerable okay okay and that's the iucn lists bro that's the list that everyone looks to Solis concern is the highest level little concern is black-tailed deer Whitetail

oh dear okay and then what's NT NT is near threatened near threatened so goes from least concern too near to that seems like a kind of a biased designation to begin with it's not healthy population isn't even on the list it's just not least concern yeah and even when you get into vulnerable you get in there least concerned that it's not a concern of going endangered okay what's a help you know healthy population whatever it's not a concern of going in danger but it's right next to endangered that's the most distinction know you got like no it's right

the threatened Vu is look up honorably he's gonna start again lace concern threatened extinct okay and then you have ew extinct in the wild uh-huh okay so you have to get into this Okay the reason that they're not endangered on this is because Namibia has a surplus amount of them okay in Namibia it's not an endangered situation have a surplus amount right when you say Surplus people say like this guy's talking about widgets you're talking about pliers you're talking about

about think Harbor owners well you know saying I have a degree in economics but you know what I'm saying like the word the term Surplus to a living thing it gets people weirded out just at 7 billion humans or whatever we're at is the Surplus are enough of us think this is a surplus people okay so so my point is you get into that in Namibia they have a surplus I'm out okay so what is a what is the population I think you know man I can't tell you exactly but it's what I believe more than 2,000 you know it'll say on that yeah and the black

I knows the ones that you hunted are different or the same as this this particular that's allowed that's the one you hunted yeah so there's a few thousand of them yeah yeah that subspecies in Namibia and is there other Black Rhinos is different kinds of other different subspecies a Black Rhinos line for instance when you're saying the one that was going extinct the one that went extinct there was a western black rhino that went extinct and what is the difference in these rhinos like how can they tell the difference is a solution that protects all many different things about them you know different like a liberal versus

is a black tail no no that would be two different species but it's really gonna be a desert desert mule deer versus Rocky Mountain Mule Deer okay something like that well like mule deer are weird where the designated designation is the I5 like east of the I-5 it's a black tail West it's a mule deer yeah that's another right there they're essentially the same right there they could be essentially the same it's just like this is transferring over right but you if you shot one you would it would be considered a mule deer in a specific location have you shot the exact same

animal across the I5 it's it be a black to that day he's a black to him so this is not like that with these rhinos it's me we're talking about more distinct diversity like like here here here okay okay their total separate populations so they have these animals they know that there's a fairly healthy amount of them and they're trying to maintain and grow the population through the resource of the actual animal themselves so bye-bye

auctioning off this big game hunt and spending three hundred fifty thousand dollars they didn't take all this money it's accounted for very meticulously it all goes into this conservation fund it all pays for what Rangers and was all sorts of different things it went into the namibian game products trust fund and has a list of these things you could pull that up to sure if you wanted to I mean but it's a list of things that you're going through it okay so you know basically it had for the US fish and wildlife to allow the importation of it they had to find a non detriment finding mean that the taking of

animals not detriment to the species and it had to have a positive finding as well positive means positive benefit okay to the species so do you have this animal now know are you eventually going to get it yes so they stuffing it for you know it's still in its it has to go through a process before it's important United States I mean it's only been I don't know how long it's not even something a month since I hunted down so they take it and they are going to ship it to you they Taxidermy know that will happen over here okay

and you will just put this in your house or something like well I mean like I said I've said this a lot of times I have to look through it through what the permit actually allows me to do is my personal property I can never sell it I can't do stuff like that okay right but what I want to do and you know and I'm going to talk to them about this once it gets here is that we can I loan it to different Museum put it on display at different places you know to keep your awareness alive about it I never was in this because I was like oh I can't wait to have a black rhino that's not what I was in this for

but what were you in it for like what was your ultimate goal when you decided to spend that money and take that trip and shoot that run on what as live a belief system and sustainable use as a and and and within that hunting as a tool of sustainable use to keep animals live so did you recognize this was a high-profile situation I really would be something that you would could use as a platform know I know recognize it that I mean I was told that day when we had the auction that my name wouldn't come out for a while it came out

like within a few hours of the auction somebody tweeted it it wasn't even supposed to be spoke of right then and then it came out and I kind of felt to be honest bullied you know I was like you know I believed in this a mud enough to be a part of it now now it's out it is what it is I can't do anything about it mmm it wasn't my desire okay I knew it would have been totally come out and I dunno I don't think anybody could have expected what would happen with it I mean I didn't expect to the degree of it I've seen other things but I've never seen anything

NG to this degree well we live in a new world you know we live in a world of instant instant outrage and instant reaction to that outrage you know if this had taken place 20 years ago you really had no recourse no no one I mean even if they got upset they got upset in their small groups they read the paper together like someone did you see this this guy shot a rhino fuck that guy and that'd be the end of it they there was no way to reach out now that conversation is for everybody to see yes for everybody to see everybody to join in everybody to take the moral High Ground

round and and very few people to take nuanced objective look at it and realize wow like there's a lot of gray area yeah like many things in life I'll tell you really interesting deal when it first happened some children whose parents were activists okay they wrote me a letter about why I was doing this okay they told you why you were doing they asked they asked me not to do it and they did this letter okay and I did this interview with these kids I had like this guy

I was doing a documentary about them or whatever came down and asked me if I would talk to them and their kids which you know I understood that I was a very nice and very calm and cool with them I've have been with everybody really and

they they asked me a lot of questions that were really you know to me I considered you know most like common knowledge type question but then I ask them this

I said if there are three Black Rhinos left okay

and let's say it's one male or two males and a cow

or whatever and ones killing the other two

can you shoot that black rhino

okay they're going to be gone you don't have time to think about it this is the moment can you kill that Rhino to save the species okay and the the boy the older boy kind of guided this this is deep in the conversation this is after you know 30 minutes in he was kind of coming around okay but the girl was she was younger and she was pretty much stuck with it but I pressed rounds like well you know look you've asked me all these questions I've answered everything can you do this

you know if you really believe in the survival these black rhino and she's like I just don't know and I was like well that's why we have experts that do know and that they exist and that they're in charge of this and so you yourself Joe could you kill that black rhino would you kill that black rhino to save the species yeah okay it's it just immediately immediately because seems like if one of them is trying to kill the other one and you're talking about and it's a pragmatic answer to a complex question that's right you have to do it you have to

or you have to let them go extinct those are two on that's your options right now yeah that's it okay if the one kills the other one and who knows if he dies in the process because it's not like the ones going to let the other one kill them they're going to fight they're gonna fight you're gonna impale each other with those fucking horns yeah it might get infected and die and they might be the end of it right there so that to me that's it look albeit of extremely over simplified question to a very complicated thing right okay when you're dealing with these Wildlife experts

so that put this together that's kind of the question they're going through okay that's part of the question but it's it's very complicated when you start putting value on things and trying to figure out which rhinos which you know way which method which place which Community with all these things that's the big question what are we going to do

to keep these animals live and unfortunately for these animals they cannot afford the morality of the average person and the average person person's thought process on this they can't afford it okay you they need experts they need money and they need a value anytime you put a hunting license on something you put a value on it okay I'll hunt one time I don't know man the second season of professionals we went down to Paraguay and we went and darted Jaguars

okay they didn't have done by say darted them we talking about Target lysing their ankle lives then they could tag them so what we put collars on them radio collars and we moved one okay if we moved it to get it out of an area where it was a threat of being poached by the local Indian tribe unfortunately two weeks later went back to that same area and they killed it okay

they are like will give you the Jaguar hide but you know we want $80 this collar okay it meant nothing to them it had no value on it now had that Jaguar been were 20,000 bucks or anything to their Community they did done anything in the world to protect it it's that simple I mean if you have gold running around in your backyard you're not going to protect it

it's that's why I have such a real issue with these with people like not understanding this just imagine this this rhino's horn on the black markets worth

whatever it's worth three times a way to Gold something like that that's insane okay all right now now that's on a black illegal market now if you put a value of it three times the weight of gold on an illegal market and you have no value on it and illegal Market what's going to happen

it completely kill it they're going to say okay and legally okay let's talk about you know I mean I don't know how far I'm going with this if it's even the right direction but

if you just put a blanket no okay how well would that work like in something like the keeping people from doing drugs how well did it work on alcohol and the 20s okay blanket now and then you take them forcement out of it how well would it work doesn't work at all okay in Paraguay they had no way to enforce their laws they had no people on the field doing it so what's going to happen that's not worth anything animals are and get published because there were something that they're worth it well those weren't even worth anything else

anything for it they were up- benefit the community they were worried about our goat there are killing goats are killing whatever so they're killing him just to protect the livestock yeah and and their life look I mean the idea of death by wild animal isn't something we deal with here in the United States rarely very rarely but I mean you're not walking down the streets La thinking this Mount lines going to freaking rip my head off today okay if you're in like Zambia and you're rolling down in the evening time can rule Zambia

okay and you're on a bike you're thinking lion might be around here

okay and you know people have been killed by lying it's a different thing okay now let's say you live out there Joe this lines worth nothing to you alive okay now you go out there it's killed some of your livestock your properties damage what do you do you going to kill the line K it's killed your it's killed your child what do you do you're gonna kill the line okay now if you know there's no benefit coming why not poison around here

let's put some poison in this will kill a whole Pride

and that's what they wind up doing that's exactly what they want up doing a lot of places people I think have a real issue with monetary like attaching money attaching a monetary value to life people have a do the people have a real issue with lots of things Joe either people who don't hear the the thing I learned about my situation was you don't realize how many people hate you just because whatever you believe okay you know if you're a Christian there's people hate you if you're Muslim there's people age

you're an atheist if people hate you there your Gator people to hate you if you're this or they're just not exposed to that level of hate I got exposed to the level hate that people have for me okay back in the day you live your life I live my life it was more I mean it was almost more of a Libertarian existence because I would never have anything to do with you right okay and today on social media I'm in a room with thousands of people that hate me any time I get on it mmm okay they hated me to the extent my Facebook gone dude I can't delete it

no it's I can't get on it it won't allow me to get on it what do you mean it won't allow me get off I do it right now doing Friday so there's disabled I put my I put my my email address in there it says doesn't recognize it so that sounded back it the had to have did you contact Facebook I mean 30 yeah through all these things through their method then I'm just like I'm done with it you know I couldn't figure it out and um they lying on the computer genius wherever and I like them out that tons of people are 20,000 people you know and there were just mainly a lot of those run herb is gone

and so they took my voice out of it right there well that's in a lot of ways it was good for my family if you look at it like these four walls like Joe's got to go home he's got to be with his kids his family right my mom my wife would go on there they look at all the hate and it makes me upset I mean I got skin thicker than the Rhino now you could have whoever in the world sitting over here tell me whatever and I mean this is because of this absolutely what was it like when it first started coming at you a different story

it was a like a just a giant Ray you know different like raging wall of emotion you know like I'm angry I'm upset you know things like that but you realize that what made me feel a lot better once a lot of the people that would just say you know I Karma type threat you know which you die I hope you get cancer whatever I would respond to them when they'd send me those message 9 out of 10 maybe even more than that said it was just a knee-jerk reaction apologize they realize there's a human on the other side of it

so you think when they see you on CNN or they see you on a website and see your face a photograph they don't necessarily think of you as a person I think of you as an expression of something I disagree with that here's a name on something I don't like

hmm and you went back and forth these people for a few days or how long do I do I mean usually the first message really yeah I mean I if I still had it I could show you how much time did you spend doing Lots I cared to reach out to Ricky Gervais I would I love to talk to him about it you know I mean look he's a comedian he can probably get it I searched his name you know it well he loves animals yeah I searched his name and it came up right underneath Ricky Martin it's probably good place for him how dare you I mean

Livin La Vida Loca leave them alone Miami like man like whatever I'm I'm open-minded to it I honestly I think if he was sitting here with me you've set with him what would he say well when I talked to him he didn't have any problem with what I was doing I told him that I hunt for food I don't hunt things that I don't eat and I practice very hard make sure that if I shoot something and dies quick that's very ethical and there was really not much you could say I don't even know if he's a vegetarian is he a vegetarian I don't know man

look man I'm living my life my kids bro I understand okay and I company people online I found out that they had a dog and I'm like what do you feed your dog motherfucker yeah what do you feed your dog wings of honestly Joe if you could bring him here if you could get that due to come here and sit with me I would love nothing more than it you know any of my talk to anybody about it do you think that there's like a certain certain social currency to standing up for Animals certain social currency to taking that photo putting online and going how dare you think man think there is absolutely there is I think

do certain things not just because they believe it but also they put it out there because they want everyone to know they believe it because it Jazz's them up honestly if he was here I would show him nothing but love I would I care about him as a human being and you know he called me a murdering scumbag so he did I'm dare he yeah whatever what about the Rhino you shot a murderer so yeah it doesn't matter like a Carfax doesn't matter like a rhino cop so look if he was here I'd hug him I'd be nice to my tell jokes

him okay look I understand looks and here's the thing I understand that I was in front of him as an agenda he's a comedian okay and he is a professional comedian okay and he feels passionate about stuff okay he can say what he wants and I'm sure he can take a joke as good as he can give a joke told him so yes he's okay sure so so I don't have a problem with that I understand that I was just something for him to talk about that day it doesn't Mater me I don't take any of this stuff you know maybe you just don't slat add personally I would be inhuman to say I don't

take all of it person I think some of it personally you know what I mean but that's a very healthy approach to it that will definitely help you I mean what are you gonna do I'm gonna sit there and look at all the anger and hate in the world let that change me if you set with the devil you don't change I mean the devil doesn't change you do the consequences of actually acquiring food are just so much more brutal than people want to imagine chicken McNuggets aside even getting grain you know I watched this thing on the

machines that they use to to get corn and wheat from Fields those fucking things are brutal they chopped down everything that's in that field and they catch fawns and rabbits and squirrels and just anything that gets in front of those wheels just gets churned up and sliced apart so the only way you're going to buy Grain is you mean you're going to buy it in a store unless you're growing your own grain and picking it by hand you're most likely

and some sort of animal murder whether you want to believe it or not it's the reality of being a human being in these their complicated disconnect us from who we are and what we are as regards the cycle of life don't you think they're trying to do that because they are Disconnected by the system that they subsistence absolutely I think that was one of the main reasons why I wanted to get into hunting because I recognized a big contradiction and as a comedian as a person thinks about you

it a lot I look at things that don't make any sense and I just go how is this how come this doesn't make any sense in so many people just accept it you just you just hit it you said as a person who thinks about things a lot okay you didn't say a person to reacts to everything that I see immediately okay you have the benefit of time Joe you have the benefit of self-reflection all right you are read about you a little bit you said to do the self deprivation Chambers all these things right

to you're trying to find out who you are as a person and you're trying to find out where you're at is person you're questioning things are question things thoughts and feelings and emotions you have I don't think by and large a lot of people that live every day live have the opportunity to do that or take the opportunity to do that I don't think a lot of people do I think you're probably right and I think there's also the reality that we're all under the influence of the momentum of culture and when cultures when cultures accept certain types of behavior and certain types

types of behavior are not prevalent like hunting that those types of behavior that aren't prevalent get mocked or minimalized or misunderstood and that I think when you you deal with the system that we all operate under there's a few people that are really aware of what the system really truly is knows the people that work in the slaughterhouses those are the people that breed the cat all those are the people that work in these insane confined chicken factories where they just stuff all these fucking animals where they've made laws where you're not allowed to take

photos you can go to jail if you work in one of those plants or if you sneak in one of those plans and take photos of the ridiculously inhumane conditions at these chickens and these pigs there's different states have made laws because it's inconvenient for people to know the truth it's like no different than the outrage that people had when you couldn't show coffins when you couldn't show American flag-draped coffins they were putting a ban on them in the media after the Gulf War started

it and people are freaking out that look this is my fucking family dying over there you're telling me you can't take a picture of the coffin that my family's on because you don't want people to know the reality of people dying well that's insane it's information that's all it is and when they're trying to keep information from you in any way shape or form that's always bad make your own fucking opinions devise your own opinion or come up with your own opinions on things but you have to be able to have access to information to have a really informed opinion well there's not been a day and age that I think we've had more

has to information and it seems like people would rather get outraged then informed well it takes a long time to get informed about this shit on people think that you know I agree I agree to be fully informed is you could have watched these CNN stuff that we did we had a pretty good idea a decent idea okay and then at least if you read into the article you'd know where to go right you can only go to the US fish and wildlife page and look at it but what happens is is people have strong emotions about it

and then then they have what you know opinion bias right I don't agree with that because it doesn't back up what I believe right and you can get confirmation bias online going to a hundred different websites that are anti-hunting and anti the world's foremost experts agreed on it okay and like and again I'm not trying to get away from what the point you're trying to make is that people don't have a real idea of the reality of the machine that feeds us

exactly okay they don't have they're not they don't understand that they don't have a personal relationship when they bite into a quarter pounder with the cow in the way that my grandmother my great-grandmother who ran a dairy would then look at a quarter pound of the way most people look at a potato okay and doesn't eat it any event and the people look

you know just being around you seem pretty open-minded about things that I don't see as you looking across to here at the person that's going to judge me for whatever okay the people who are judging us about this by and large are doing it while eating a hamburger and having a Louis Vuitton purse okay they're there they need to look within themselves and say is the enjoyment that I get from having this Louis Vuitton purse or eating this hamburger

what is different about that enjoyment than Joe Blow gets from shooting a duck okay he's enjoying hunting he's enjoying shooting and Doug okay you're enjoying I'm loving this burger I'm loving this steak I'm loving these shoes I gotta love my leather seats my BMW okay as your enjoyment more validated than his what's the difference here it's a good point it is a it is a good point that you will get people

at are absolutely outraged about hunting or absolutely outraged about the death of any animal and yet they're driving down the street and there's just murdered animal skins everywhere you look it on people shoes on people's bodies in their cars and their briefcases their briefcases covered in animal skins every convenience store you stop at as meat sticks and those fucking ground up things that they turn into burritos and every restaurant there everywhere you look there is no bounce the hypocrisy

of it okay now if you're a hundred percent real legit Trudy vegan okay who make sure that on the level of growing in his backyard he's not affecting any animals life other than this house took up a place that an animal could live okay so if you're that guy I kind of all right you know I get you if you're not that guy then where are you at with this right okay and our why do you if you're not going to go over to Africa

you are you're not going to go to Asia you're not going to go to the third world and either help fund or personally put your butt on the ground and live to save these things and protect these things and care about these things and be intimately involved with their life then what are you doing where were you at with this personally people need to ask themselves these questions what what value does a black rhino have to you it's another interesting aspect that people get upset

if you do enjoy what you're doing if you enjoy hunting if somehow or other you get some sort of pleasure out of this hunt then it's bad what they would like you to do is do it with total somber thinking and very you know I would say lots of you know how to probably the majority of hunters have absolute least in the very beginning minimal of a certain degree of reverence for the animal and like someone like Jim who you know I have never met anybody that had more

it's for an animal Okay and like so and I learned a ton from being around him and he was he went to extremes and like we would talk about this we're representing Hunters on the show okay we're representing Hunters what we're doing a Hunters are going to watch this okay we would talk about how what we thought how we wouldn't step over the animal

okay now you know look I mean if it's down yeah but we wouldn't walk around them we do everything we care for them we try to kill them as quickly and painlessly as possible we talk and learn everything we could about them I would you not step over them we just we just didn't think it was right so you have got a conversation about those lots yeah Okay and like you know understand like one we cut the cameras are off now we're dealing with it we're moving around animal too

cut it apart acquire it right take care of the me all right but right now at this moment especially the immediately after a mistake lat the life of the animals taken and leading up to it like I said I said on show cause emotional after I shot the Rhino if you anybody looks at it and go back and look at the Nepal episodes we did we went to Nepal we hunted with these Napoli's Sherpas okay who lots of them were Buddhist so you understand Buddhism a lot of them didn't want to harm animals right

and they hunted and they understood it okay why in a real way how does that work if they they they they're Buddhists they took people to kill it they were part of it the these people those people ate through those people in it the Buddhists say to yeah they looked at your on the side of the mountain you're surviving this is no other options that look like they're eat rice or whatever I don't know which one's 8 what okay but a lot of made it yes all people eating it because there's not a lot of options for what you're hearing yeah you're up there and you're living and what either bringing but anyway so I'm

all these people and these people like you you like you have you you've developed relationships on a hunt would you say the relationship you develop hunting or any different if you notice anything different about it the very intense very very you get a bond you understand the serpent you understand a certain aspect of a person when you see them tested and like especially a mountain hunt when you go hiking on these mountains and you see people pushed you see people that are willing to pussy out see

a little get get too tired too quick to get mentally weak and you you see people don't and you see you see what you see what their character is about when they're pushed when the urine in Dane and in a dangerous situation when you are you're forced to be quiet you're forced to be patient you're forced to be disciplined you find out what someone's made of because a lot of people are fucked up a lot of people are all a deed up and they can't pay attention and they don't know how to stay focused

and be a contributing factor in the successful hunt and that's one of the reasons why I think men in general we have an aversion to people who are loud but aren't saying anything call too much attention to themselves have a distorted perception of their own abilities I think a lot of that boils down to that would make a very unsuccessful Hunter and I think these things are ingrained in our DNA I think there's a part of

what makes a man a man or makes a man

what makes a man what people value in human beings what people value and masculine traits is ability to hold your own mud ability to stay calm Under Pressure ability to come through when the chips are on the line and I think you learn a lot about someone when you hunt with them and learn a lot about whether or not someone can keep it together when they're they have the shot lined up whether they can you know drawback on a 7-foot black bear and make the right

shot yeah and so you have different relationships and different bonds okay it's part of like you think about people hunting Mastodon hunting whatever okay throughout history thinking about the Indians okay think about everything even you know Europeans

there's things that happen on a hunt that aren't going to happen in daily life they're just not an especially on our rural wild situation where you are aware of what's going on around you and your actions have immediate consequences okay Jim and I had a rule and Jim I don't know Jim came up with it or whatever but we talked about it daily it was the five rules of hunting safety safety safety

the safety that's it what ain't a successful hunt some by breaks her leg or dies okay we know a lot of people who are dead okay and we would talk about this extensively and we talked about you know situations that we've been when people would see people go you know that would go bad and compounded human error you learn a lot about who you are and I've taken tons of people Joe that have never hunted before people who are against it whatever I've taken up

from all walks of life from the wealthiest people that exist on the planet to the poorest people that exist on a planet and once you get out and you go on that hunt and your next to it it doesn't matter if you're a mega famous star doesn't matter what you are you're all on the ground level you're all on the same level if you all have packs on you're all equal and it's about what we're doing and the emotion of that that that happens in the bonding you know like for instance Joe if you and I were on the side of the mountain and

Stan inner Mongolia review these people and we're sitting here we have these bonds with them or caring about them you think about their lives you think about how you can help them financially think about all these things you know I mean you're bringing a lot of money over there you bring a lot of just items like pocket knives and pack some stuff that mean a lot in them you become personally involved with these people and you and I become more person involved learn about our lives learned about things about our family we talk about these things we have the time to do it we're out there okay and then you you

you find if there's a situation where you know like you know you've been in when people can die okay I've been in those situations numerous times and I've seen people get hurt I've seen all sorts of things and you it's like a real it's your you're tied into who we are as human beings that in a sense to wear a lot of times people don't understand what that is until maybe they're in a car accident right they had a like a traumatic event or something okay that's the most people probably haven't seen something die

and so it's you know in real live you know outside maybe they hit a dog or a squirrel or something you know or specially your actions that caused the death of this animal you become closer to who you are and what life really is and life I promise you becomes more meaningful I believe because of this I think you put a more value on life when you've been in these situations I personally saw the way that I changed as a human throughout it it definitely broadens the Spectrum

of what you think our experiences gives you a completely different kind of experience in a lot of ways one of the oddest things that I found about hunting is a lot of ways it's psychedelic in that way like the something about locking eyes with an animal that's in the wild that you're hunting it's you don't you're not thinking about anything other than that moment and there's this weird bond that you have with this animal and when you take that animal and eat it there's a strange hi

comes from it and it's not a high like you don't know where the fuck you are or you're drugged up there's like an elevated sense has sort of a thing there's a connection to life itself that's very unusual and it changes your perception of life outside of that yeah I think for each person it's different but I can tell like when you're talking right now and when you're looking at me as you're talking about it like you're very in touch with who you are as a person you're very in touch with how these things

have affected you as Joe Rogan or whoever you know the person you are

I think that's one of the best things about hunting is that when you're out there if it's your family if it's your friends you know hunting is largely social thing okay now like in instances like you know the extreme cases where people who like you look throughout history Kermit Roosevelt Teddy Roosevelt okay exploring type things a different type of person even Jim is a different type of person you know I totally different person okay when you're drawn to these things becomes real fabric

who you are what you're talking about just eaten the animal and everything is very it's a fabric Thing of who you are as a person and you're in touch with what you understand that the actions you took resulted in the death of a very real thing and the death of that really think real thing is sustaining year life at that point and that's the cycle of life and you're talking about the emotions you feel in it

you know there's a lot of hunters that wouldn't even get it the way that you've got it okay because you've thought about it you know if they just want it's just so like it's such a it's such a complex thing and that's why when people ask me well how do you feel when you kill it how are you going to feel when you kill this black round so important about the two things that were that were most important people is how I was going to feel about it and the money aspects of it okay like it's almost like a crime to have money anymore I think I look at people look at money as a negative thing but everybody wants it I don't I'm lost without

okay and some things I just give up on trying to understand I guess that's it's the vast majority of people feel like that don't have it yeah that's what it is it's almost like like looks like someone who's really beautiful like that there's something negative about it like a beautiful woman has to be stupid yeah if you think making money hard try keeping money in this world yeah it's brutal especially if you're spending three hundred fifty thousand dollars to kill right here it goes quite exactly goes really quick you know your show that you did with Jim Shockey that Uncharted show

I didn't see the professionals but I'm a big fan of that Uncharted show and it was a it's a really fascinating show because it got to show a side of you you don't really see too much of on those types of shows and not the Pakistan episode in particular where you didn't want to go to Pakistan you had been there before dangerous as fuck at that time it was real dangerous your family didn't want you going over there nobody wanted me going over there not been over there twice you know

them that all live that twice you know I've been over there like pre drones and post drones and the mentality of people were totally different really absolute drones changed everything Zhang drones changed everything fuck okay what's the difference

I mean we were hunting in very rural areas okay we're hunting with people who outside of

the Advent of the tractor and a cellphone live like Biblical times okay there they could not grasp a lot of the things about our world a lot of them think that we blew up our own tires okay I'm in its there they get little they get media in a different way they get information a different way their attitude was just very very different there was a lot of people that were very I think it struck a lot of fear and people

and so it just is just a totally different thing and so to regards to the show not going over there on that hunt I'd already been there twice I felt like and and brandalynn you know Jim son I don't think Jim wanted brand let it go either okay and you know we had a very real show meaning like we did our very very best not to contrive too much okay there's obviously things like we're going to just like you and I

sitting here I get here you like hey I want to talk about that to wear on the show right those type of things okay we're going to wait till we're filming right talk about this so anyway it was just a it was a hard decision because I love Jim and I personally didn't have an aversion to going there okay but at this point I put my family through hell so much I couldn't even tell you I mean I've Been Everywhere on this planet Earth a lot of the deepest darkest horrible hellholes you can ever imagine and I just felt like you know

I'm not yeah I personally thought I put him through enough okay and brandalynn talking to him somebody I love is probably my closest friend in a lot of ways and I love that guy to death he you know him and I had talks about it too okay and he it was really you know we did all these shows together and it was a really big difference with Brandon didn't have a girlfriend or anything must have shown that he gets a girlfriend he's getting married to now dude his attitude change sure okay like

he didn't he couldn't get a lot of ways until you have somebody you're in love with truly in love with or you know like have kids like I don't need like a human being you are before you have kids in after you have kids is a two different thing if you're a true father true parent you know your it fundamentally changed you okay so my decisions were getting changed by this and that's why a big reason why didn't continue to do the show you know it's like I done everything I wanted to do with it I felt like I ran through the Finish Line you know and I'm going to run the marathon

when you finish you just going to keep running when you guys were up in way up North when you were on that polar bear hunt with the Inuits the local people you were at me that what that that was a really crazy scenario I mean you guys were essentially watching them hunt right you were with them we hunted to you hunted to yes we're a big con didn't show that that much on the show because because a couple of the real reason of that

was the idea of Uncharted wasn't to do a hunting show in traditional methods that we just went out and hunted step the idea of Uncharted was to show the way these wild Places work and the people who live in them and live off these animals and their value they put on the animal okay in our value for the whole situation and so at that point you know that show was more about a culture in a lot of ways that is going on

away and and hopefully it stays so what was the choice was behind the choice to not show you guys hunting for the polar bear because that was a big question that I'd had you didn't show any Jim explained it really good in a Facebook post about it and you know I think it just it was more about that than anything we're we had we as well ladies yes extremely intense there are amazing people and that's where Jim's hunt there

lat and those people he's like the Michael Jordan to a lot of those people hunting is a part of their culture like we would be in the airport's up there and those people loved him okay they love Jim they know who he is absolutely so in these hunting rich areas what comes along she needs to be bowing to start yeah absolutely it's up there it's the most intense okay they love him well yes such a primitive

if I want to say I don't see a primitive culture I mean it's obviously primitive but it's it's long it's to the Bone yeah it's been around a long time and they've been doing it this way for a long long long time and there's not much room there's not much wiggle room up there you're not growing any crops you know you're living in an intensely cold environments and there's not a lot of things to hunt and that polar bear hunt is very important to them extremely and wailing wailing more most important narwhal

bowhead seals all that everybody wore seals they wore sealed clothes wow so look these things need to be protected those people really get it up there okay they really get it for their life if they want to live their audit that's it unless they're going to ship in canned goods they do all that but dude it's a value to them okay it's a value just like when we brought that Rhino meet to that Village you don't think they value that what is polar bear takes

like I haven't eaten polar bear you didn't eat any of it dude it was immediately frozen into a complete Rock right then just come like it will cloak old it was so cold and Jim's 8 and polar bear I think you know you could ask him I didn't I didn't get to eat polar bear because we weren't those guys literally the second I shot the polar bear the guy who was running me running the hunt was like this Hans over we're going home

okay and we let the polar bear sit there while we were doing the things we're doing for the show and dude it frozen to a complete rocket were like well I mean less than ours like brutal and we will all and it was brutal the skin it at the whole situation how they cut it up like a chainsaw ours no I mean yeah but you could still get in there and hack and get it just wasn't like when you've dealt with a bear wow you know and I've hunted bears bears are

know how bears are okay it's just a different situation another emotional aspect of people have with it they don't get the Klondike Bar Bear yeah so cool they're like like I killed this gigantic brown bear

and you know people in Alaska get it by and large okay they live with and understand those bears kill all the other Bears right it's just it's just a bit some people just don't get it do you assume that television show I got hunt no man I don't watch much TV that was the television show that was it was hosted by the guy from the Metallica okay he killed a big bear well he didn't even kill the bear that's what's really crazy they had a photo of him

and they use this photo of him standing truth under its wasn't him it was a giant bear like pull pull it up Jamie it they thought that it was James Hatfield it's not it's another hunter that looks like and that Hunter is said like hey that's my fucking bear like I shot that bear like Hatfield is a hunter he does hunt I think it better before probably has but the photo that they use to try to keep them out of the gloss Barry was out with glass Barry music

Louisville Glastonbury Music Festival see there's the photo yeah it's not hell it doesn't look like him there now you know now that you look at it that big no I mean there's a guy who said that you know he's like look that's me that's my fuckin bear I'll tell you when I hunted it God damn that's a big bear see what do you do you enjoy hunting bear I enjoy I like to eat them they taste good but the bear hunt itself what do you think it's interesting it's but the being in the woods with them is amazed have you hunted Brown

no would you hunt brown bear I don't think so because I'm not going to eat them yeah that so far we know where my head is I understand do you understand that salvation aspect of it a hundred percent yeah I mean if I lived there if I lived on Kodiak Island and I ran cattle or something like that I would absolutely hunt them if I for whatever reason you know needed to be a part of it I would absolutely hunt them but and they absolutely should be with jooheon them to raise awareness about bears no

you know I would talk about it it's not my job if I was a professional Hunter maybe maybe if I was on television will see that's the interesting and the the interesting thing about it is the reasons we hunt mmm can be a lot of different things no I get that I get that I mean the reason why I'm asking a lot of these questions a lot of it is just because I want to cover all the bases and take it from a bunch of different angles play Devil's Advocate as much as much as possible but hunting bears is a very different

thing then hunting whitetail deer when you're hunting whitetail deer you're hunting essentially Nature's victim I mean these poor bastards they run around eating berries looking left and right and jumping away and trying to their their the bottom it's become a science in a way hunting them yeah it's a lot of people yeah well I mean hunting deer is that you're hunting prey there's a pray you hunting a bear you hung a predator different situation totally different first of all which creepy about the Bears is they don't make any noise

this is a big fucking animal that was the thing about the Rhino it was like a cotton ball made no noise freaky three thousand pound car dude I'm telling you bro it was just like a Barrett reminded me of a black bear they just know how to sneak around dude it was in sandy soil made no noise wow one time we set down where we'd walk like I don't know I mean we walked over 20 miles after the Rhino and this day we had walked about 10 at this point and like the CNN guy was a big dude bro

okay it was 283 pounds man you know and he hung in there the first day threw up and after seven miles he started barfing everywhere but he really wanted to be involved with it and he got it and we sat down we were sit down to next that Rhino 40 yards away that Rhino got up ran off and we never heard it

wow ran off you can see where it just ran and they just really good at like Distributing their rates their place man I don't know how they do it like I've hunted elephants you would have heard that thing like you would have seen it for one that you would have heard it you hear them right I didn't hear anything I you never hear bear unless they want you to hear them it's the weirdest thing but the reason I asked you about the brown bear was because I believe in the United States of brown bear is like similar to the situation with

lion are some of these different animals that you know whatever you're talking about you know

certain animals that you know strike things in North America is probably closest thing we got you know to that which is around Bear yeah you know and and they're hunted a lot people get it by and large and I didn't tune it I guess to a lesser extent by and large people don't have as big a problem with it I think as they would African animals I don't know I don't know why it yeah I mean there's a lot of people that have a really hard time with ground bare of course but there's a lot of people that know I mean you know even people who hunt

there's a lot of people in the North America that North America I never go to Africa whenever you see them saying mmm so you can amongst Hunters mmm you know

yeah I think it changes the distinction whether or not you're hunting something you want to eat or not and you can eat brown bear but not that many people do know it's a management Choice what does it taste like if you ever eaten at holder I've tried I've only shot one and I didn't eat it was eating a rotten sea lion seat and stuff that's going to make it pretty rough it had the had eight the head off of a giant rotting sea lion it was he a picture sure so that it would smell and taste

probably a lot like it it dude it was it was an extremely extremely smelly odor like rough nasty situation it was really gross Millennia for many people don't know one of the most delicious Meats apparently is black bear that's been eating blueberries

whoa black bear up good just ate the whole head off that thing huh that bear had claimed that thing that's enough it was there it was laying right on top of it where was this that was on you know Mac Island in Alaska way out in an Alaskan Peninsula and that bear had just was just laying on it and I I flew in out there in the there's a guy who set up the camp you know and we flew in and he hadn't been there that long and I was just like what do you what do you think about that very have you seen

no it's I think it's big it's like well why do you think it's a big city because I've seen six other bears come up to that cliff and look down and turn around and leave it's like it was his wow this show was interesting that show The Hunt because it was one of the few shows that I've ever seen on television that you know like you have a lot of these subsistence living shows you know like Alaska the Last Frontier or Life Below Zero but this wasn't about subsistence at all it was about hunting to control the populations and trophy hunting

I mean that's what these people were doing I mean they did you cook up some back straps on one episode some people sliced up some I don't get like the whole thing about like you said the go there dude in these camps just a trophy hunt the animals aren't getting wasted right okay you're getting into what's drawing a person out there to benefit regardless of why he's there in his mind whatever it is okay if the result is good and the result is benefiting it who you're judging his desires to do something on what going on in your head you're not you're not looking at the

old well you say that the meat doesn't get wasted if you leave it around okay well it's not about brown bear that's right on a brown bear okay the other animals eat it whatever Bears the biggest predator of other Bears a bear the eat them yeah okay they're all cannibal okay so you're but I'm saying like by and large throughout hunting there's only a few animals that don't get eaten okay you know like I said lie I Inna I've shot some hyena wouldn't eat hyena

baboon my brother ate the lungs of a baboon whoa on a bet no because he was hungry really well that's what the locals were eating he thought well if I may need a part of it I'm going to either favorite part it was the lungs the locals like the lungs huh they boil them up

what is it is like hint they didn't act like it was too good I mean I didn't get into it we were in Central African Republic in the middle of you know the people have before us the beat they just got the camp back from the chatty and Rebels and shot it up you know we weren't really talking about stuff like that God baboon long what is the nastiest thing you have eaten when you've been hungry on these camps

have you ever eaten an animal that you regret it no but I mean I've eaten things that weren't like like what like you said about the elephant do but by the time we shot the elephant we were hungry I mean we just threw it on the coals or just eat it right there and it wasn't nasty or anything it was food you know I haven't really gotten into something like you know Jim eats a Teague Nook okay which is like an igloo no its like fermented walrus meet its like the Icelandic people do sharks yeah for mint leaves leave it out there in the vault yeah

I haven't tried that you know

but I would try it I mean I've watched Jimmy lot of crazy crap that he's living a very odd life Jim shocked without I mean and I say that with all due respect it's not I'm not saying in a negative way he's if you don't know show just I mean even if you're not in a hunting at all like like you said that shows not really necessarily about hunting that much I mean it is but it isn't it's a lot of it as a it's an in-depth discovery of the cultures that he's visiting and And the emotions that we like we would go through on the hunt I mean I've cried on the show twice

now I cried when I shot a previously on the professionals not shot of blue sheet and just because it was just you know we had a lot real ordeal and it was just like a relief and emotional thing and I cried talking about my Grandad one time and that was the Pakistan yeah so yeah and so just like we were very real about it we were everything on this list are sleeve and what is he trying to do going to all these different just soaking up a lot of different experiences is that his perspective on this I mean you'd have to talk to him about

out it and I don't even know if he would

you know I love the guy I've been with him a lot and you know a lot of our life was connected for over a decade and still is and away and he's just

he has a different attitude about it almost like I would say some of the Explorers might have had in his mind I'm not saying that he has any delusions of grandeur that that's what he's doing but he has a different attitude about it and I think you know we both wanted to see what's left like I mean when you're going to Papa New Guinea you're going to that edge when you're going in the rule Plumbing we're dealing with people who are you no cannibals and believe in Witchcraft and all sorts of stuff you know and like hanging out with

I shouldn't put I didn't deal with the cannibal but I deal with people who knew cannibals and understood cannibalism right right and we're afraid of it so they knew people like I knew it to be here they knew it to be knew it to be a real thing okay and like for instance one time I was hunting in Uganda and we talk about people's different attitudes of stuff Jim and I went to Uganda one of the first hunts when it reopened

we're hunting animal called Ceci islands that are tongue what's it called Ceci Island sit at unga with is that it's an antelope that lives in a swamp on an island Okay and like mean we value it you know we love it but anyway

so we're over there and they were talking about this big problem they had with over in a certain area of Uganda on Lake Albert where the they were buying bush meat from the Congolese just basically almost like from a grocery store he would come across on a boat it would all be cut up and everything and the way they got the people to quit it was they said the Congolese are selling human meat too

they believed it

well Vice did this piece on Liberia and that was a real issue in Liberia they were selling human meat and these food carts on the corner and this guy recognized it as human meat because he'd eaten human meat yeah there you go what what the fuck that's that's the difference between you know it's the disc Sherman Oaks it's a ditz the disconnect of what is really happening when you think about think about this think about

this war we have you know going on versus Isis all right and we're sitting over here and you know I've been closed back you know to Al-Qaeda and stuff like that when I would go to that part of the world okay I've been you know on the border of Afghanistan and probably in it and didn't know it okay for sure and it's just it's a huge disconnect if you were over there and you see them selling 12 year old girls naked in a bizarre and have an auction in

Syria where they're just selling them as property for sexual abuse whatever sex slave and it's just there they've kidnapped them that's what they're doing you're going to have if you saw that going down who isn't going to be like immediately want this stopped okay it's no you're going to it's gone you're going to do it I mean it's just the different mindset I mean that we have and I'm not saying that people want that to continue in any way shape or form but if you saw it you'd feel differently about it no doubt well there's definitely different ways of living in this this age in

15 and there's some ways that people are living every day just to get by that would horrify most people and what they consider normal what they consider normal yeah what is normal our normal versus they're normal yeah normal the fly River in Papua New Guinea is far different than here normal in a pygmy Village in Cameroon is far different you're talking about you know like you talk about recreational drug use okay

and Papa New Guinea they do this thing called Boo Boo Boo way and it's like I don't know exactly what it is but they take lime and they take something else they put in their mouth and it has a reactions like a low-grade meth people from this big all the way up to grown people on it their entire life they're living in an altered state forever and their mouths are read okay with this stuff it makes this nasty red blood so you're out there with a high person that

looks like it's zombie

okay alright and this is a people sometimes there are high person that looks like a zombie see if you can pull up boo way okay just be you wa y whatever pull up and see if you beginning Papa New Guinea okay all right and Cameron and I Village one time I would say every single person that I met that was like you know local people on

huh I think they were high on weed from the moment they waked up to the from when they woke up to when they went to sleep it's just that just part of their existence in camera yeah it's just part of their existence was their heart daily life was so hard they're looking for any kind of Escape out of it okay it's just brutal I mean in a few and I had to live in it if you had you'd understand look I don't judge them I don't have to live there right and you know you and I get to go home and sleep in comfortable beds

we get to take a shower every night I mean just go just go out to challenge the average person to go two weeks without a shower just go two weeks out of shower have one pair of underwear see what your existence is like and then do it in the jungle then do it the jungle map of Cameroon do it or wherever or on the mountains in Afghanistan are mountains of Pakistan down what is the scariest place that you ever want to when you were doing all this nutty a trap some scary scary ass incidences of falling

you know I thought I was going to die from falling twice and I had a guy say my life in Armenia when I'm two unsuccessful sheep hunts there

and I fell it was horrible I thought I was done how far did you fall well I was sliding on a sheet of ice and I had my stick and it and I've kept my stick buried in and it's saved me and this dude risk his life and came and saved my life and so I was looking down at 2,000 feet and then going off sliding straight down 2,000 feet and going off a cliff a few hundred feet thing going down the bottom well and then you know obviously I've had animals you know the closest animal that ever nearly

it was a black bear where was this that was in Alaska what happened

silly stuff you know just real thick and

I was hunting with it athabascan person you know half-and-half or person who's half Indian half white person and awesome guy and we were walking we were actually moose hunting and I had a bear tag and I look straight down and I saw this Baird print on the ground and I looked at it I said man that's like the freshest track I've ever seen in my life I was like it must have liked it

been here I'm talking to the students like closer you know how you walk when you're hunting right hmm and I hear Now look up in his climbing the tree right here okay we jumped it so I threw up my shot it anyway we tracked it and it was really really thick like those have you hunted in Alaska or even like okay or south of British Columbia or anywhere on the coast of British Columbia yeah like those Alders you know it's just yeah Ste think yeah Rush right and anyway

I don't see anything you know how quite a Blackberry is right so the guide sees it and he sees it I can't see he's like right in front of him like oh shoot it you know if you can see it I can't see boom dude it flipped out it just just just destroying everything around big seven-foot Blackberry you know just destroying everything around it and it rolled to wear and I shot in there boom boom boom and I shot in there and you know I thought I'd got it you know I felt pretty good about that and it's all this whole thing happened just

in a few minutes okay just wasn't very long right and and then I walk over there to see where the Bears at him walking around like like you know walking I'm looking looking looking and I look in the Bears just like right here looking the opposite direction

okay so very and just turned and just Brew all just went as I build them she fell back and Shadow back and shot it yeah and that was just and but you know different situations like as far as the country goes you know I've had I had been a lot of different scary places with regards to you know people more than anything you know I've hunted Ethiopia a couple of times some of the people were weird oh my God that's a guy's got that stuff in his mouth there you go

what they looked like over there what's that stuff called again boo is what they called it buwei or something I Googled it's called Patel nut yeah it's some kind of nutty yeah and it's got some sort of

what's the effect of it

but tell well it's obviously a bad teeth on effect on your teeth yeah it seems like a Jesus Christ

huh Beetle nut yeah and it has some sort of a narcotic effect or I'm left that stimulant effect is it like that cat stuff that they chew that's a different feeling let me dude I'm not you know just a bunch of don't know a lot about drugs so but is Christ

it's a hard life it's a very hard life and you think that all these experiences going to all these different places have made you appreciate your own existence here in Civilization more a hundred percent it makes you really like just like the way people are abused in other places and the way they don't have a variety of Life the value lot there if you're abused you know and you're just taking advantage of by whatever the government the local every city or just the situation your plight in the world I don't think

that you know people say well there's no value life and ever

I understand you know the I watched one time a guy didn't want to spend 40 bucks to keep his kid live and let him die and City already spent a hundred that was enough

okay you're getting into real situations Joe like you see different ways people look at it and Christ

and so now look is this every person there no but that's situations that happen those are choices they had to make

wow and so yeah like absolutely it makes me appreciate America makes me appreciate our Bill of Rights makes me appreciate our political system makes me appreciate you know we pitch about things here that

the other world would die to have as a complaint you know we're upset that traffic's bad were upset that you know my wife is mad at me that I come home at 5:30 and I said going with work right they say no cannibals yeah it'll give me weirdo people are upset about you know true this transgender situation I mean dude

who cares you get to go home and hug your kid and you got a whole the world's biggest army Dying For Your Right dying for you you have a giant system that's protecting your life

you have people dying for you every day that's one way to look at it another way to look at it people would say is that giant system is set up by the military industrial complex to steal Reese whatever's another country who okay that's why everybody's coming over here right that's all this is it's the best you're sure that's the best possible situation Ludden into camera but it doesn't mean you and I are on a boat to get to them better life well we know that it can be better I mean that's what I think what the argument is the argument isn't we should stop complaining oh no I'm not saying we know it

I can be better but I'm just saying when you see it right it's far better than New Guinea it's far better than Somalia it's far better than a lot of the places you've tried to yes absolutely when you when you do travel to these places and you you do go over there and you experience their life does it give you as feeling of like almost like helplessness like you can't you can't do enough to help these people the system that they're involved in the life that they lived yeah the community and that there

we sort of entangled in until you Hans I've gone on my dad and he brought 20 full giant Cabela's bags just worth of gifts for him you know just giving stuff at the very end we my dad's name Larry we called it Larry Mart we just let them all come in and just pick everything they wanted you know and my person giving them things to hunt with no judgment soccer balls frisbees close toothbrushes anything you know and these are people that like need it

and this is not something that anybody would expect from you they see this thing about you killing the Rhino dude I'm like so judge I don't eat whatever I don't care what people expect I know what my life's like I know what I do Well you certainly must have some feeling about otherwise you wouldn't respond to them right now like the ones that look yeah I mean I have a feeling about I try to I'm just trying to like bring some awareness that hey maybe there's more to this than what you see you can hate me that's fine whatever I don't mean well CNN you know like like you

they came under Fire because that's kind of exactly what they said they when they finally went over there and reported they did they went over there and reported a day did actual real journalism which is getting rarer and rarer we talked we talked about that you know the reason I felt comfortable with those guys everybody in the world wanted to come okay look it's ER you know they all wanted to come the reason I felt comfortable with Jason Morris and Ed lavandera as I sit down with them and I said

you're going to have to come to this with an open mind you're just going to have to come and throw away whatever you got and when you come on a hunting trip you're complicit in it I told him I said you're going to be there your look Ed if the Rhino gets somebody knocks both the dudes down with guns you may have to grab it to save somebody's life and kill the thing you got to understand that this isn't like I'm going to show them how to use a gun absolutely

I took him on a hunt before and I did all this stuff he understood different before yeah we went look I've taken people in their been hunting before I'm not going to put in there dude it's if be freaking a joke for me to take them out on their first real hunting experience that I was going to kill them I mean it's like them honey just just Planes game animals just for a day you know and they you know I was trying to figure out who could actually like make it and not get killed you know make it not cause somebody's death because you know when you're looking around them

they get goofy yeah they couple of them got goofy you know Ed end up being the only person there and then the the Rhino charged him at all like all like the wild is crap turn of events here's the CNN guy running at me and come underneath the gun what did what did he describe the experience like personally what did he take away from it boy it was a it was a eye-opening experience to all those guys like I honestly felt like

one of them really was he wasn't on I mean he was kind of real ambivalent that he wasn't like some guy who thought it was the best thing in the world for sure it was really pretty open-minded about it he just wanted to go over there and Report what was going down a true journalist stuff okay they were really pretty hardcore journalistic about it but I think there when we delivered the meat I think he kind of got teary-eyed I mean he kind of got at that point he kind of got it and the fact that Madison

real you know he got he got a big experience out of it because the Rhino went for him you know it was like he got the fear of an animal trying to kill him you know so he had a pretty unique experience about I think he talked about it on there I don't can't remember but he didn't talk about he didn't talk about you know we didn't talk about the Rhino charging him but he for somebody who wasn't involved in hunting and they want the smartest move I ever seen anybody to where he ran where he ran if you ran a different way he probably be dead right now what did he do well

well the Rhino we had memorized told you that we jumped it right when we sit down right and it left well then we kept following it and this is this is like it the 10 Mile point we followed it we jumped it we it right we didn't know we jumped it we went over there we saw that we did and we had so many people there were to keep splitting the group up and then they would come back up and like right and so I told her I said look man this thing goes wrong it's going to be when we lose the track okay

and so when we're walking along we lose the track and hinty pH goes with a couple of The Trackers one way I go with a couple of trackers the other way and then I have one and I and it's behind me and the two guys in front of me just immediately moved from about here to there so I see them moving and I heard it behind me so in to make distance I just took these steps to get to right there and then turn because I knew I thought

punch turn around right here it's going to hit me right because it was so close and how close man like 30 40 feet oh okay it better down we jumped it okay and so it ran I turned around I saw for that dude that thing move like lightning dude it was like I don't know if you're watching bull-riding dudes like a real athletic Bull with a saver on it you know okay and so anyway

it goes and we're really lucky and hit he came back and looked at Ed's at look and it said if this thing that this next time it's coming okay we pushed it twice as hot it's going to come

and so anyway we kept going and

I said hey auntie I think you should go back there and let's just split it up again you know put them a hundred yards behind us okay and we'll keep one cameraman with me and you The Trackers and then Ed can stay a little bit further behind and another guy who was there with us

he goes back there talks to him comes back up to me and this is after we walked into their 20 minutes or so and I said what's up he said yeah it's we're good we start walking and then I hear just like some noise you know and it was the other dude trying to get my attention from like 30 yards back okay and his voice was dry because we hadn't drunk water and couple hours okay we're out and then I hear hinty say Ed get down and get down you know

like run get down Ron Ron Ron and I'm like well you know I just plant my right foot as hard as I could I was like I'm not moving you know I had time to think about that and like in this whole thing lasted like three seconds so I had time to think about it and I look and I see edges flying at me like running like do the Cowboys would have picked him up that day that do that big dirty was flying bro like fears a huge motivator and he's flying at me

he comes like coming from an angle like right here where this moose goal is and just ducks and just flies underneath the rifle I know it's coming right I know you know he knew that you were going to pull your rifle and he always the wife he went yeah he was we'll hit he was yelling at him get down get down get down you know because we're really worried about shooting each other right right there we're all strings out really what happened was I think Ed miss the memo to setback okay and he started walking forward so when he started walking forward the Rhino head actually circled around on its own track and in

way was sitting there waiting for us okay so Hindi and I walk past it well Ed starts walking out well the Rhino gets up walks around this tree and starts taking steps for him okay like looking like this kind of inquisitive and then just came dude like just was like like a bat out of hell so you shot that thing when it was on a charge it was charging Ed he runs under he did he like move so quick and I like we talked about it because I was like I was like talking to

producers like dude it's really big Pro you know I was like he's like don't worry he's light on his feet you should see him at Ferguson it's like crazy Jesus Christ okay guys going to the craziest fucking spot on Earth yeah so anyway nobody had CNN's mad at Ed yeah so anyways like he comes flying underneath me the animals charging him and when it you know they don't have good eyesight okay so when he came low I think that it was so thick that the Rhino lost him like a you know lost where he went and it kind of just veered a little bit too

left and when he comes underneath me I just see it coming and turning like just turning veering and it's like lesson 18 yards that's right there 45 feet and I boom boom whoa yeah when you got up to the Rhinos body what is what is that feeling like it was like a in this case it was different than any hot ever been on you know because so much went into the magnitude ya like it like the magnitude of the experience

the magnitude of the whole situation magnitude being that like this is like the most you know hunt under a microscope that maybe ever existed without a doubt okay and so I was just like this stress it was going into it because we could have shot the wrong one right right okay what happens if the wrong one charges right got to kill it and then we kill the wrong one that's the worst thing that could happen right outside of somebody dying what does happen when that happens if you killed one of your own homes yeah you don't bring home

you leave it it's just the on down there that you're done so the $350,000 is gone and this problem mail still out there believes absolute worst situation wow and so anyway so with to walk up have the guy you know look at it heat we saw it from a game camera that was on a water hole we saw a picture of it in the guy said that's it this is the one that killed the one last year this is it okay and so he knew it by there were zero

watch from where it had you know when they originally dropped that animal off their they so they could recognize it and so and there's other animals you know the rhinos are just rhinos there it means wild area you know and so the reason they're there is that water is there okay so anyway we yeah just walking up to is just like it wasn't like a it's over because it really kind of wasn't I knew that all this

storm was going to happen didn't know to the extent well this time I knew you know this time I knew it was coming it really was the most scrutinized hunt the human race has ever known absolutely I can't think of a close second what's a close second like I really don't have one in mind I never have never seen anything that got this kind of scrutiny and look I've been involved in hunting my whole life and I never seen anything like it and so like it was just like I felt an extreme amount of pressure on me to make sure everything was done correctly and

why I felt comfortable bringing them I felt like they were just going to do an honest portrayal of what was up have you stayed in contact with Ed since that yeah talk to him you know he was down to floods in Houston the other day I just said hey you know what's up and you know let him know kind of what else had happened you know since then with where the Rhino was at stuff like that because he generally had an interest in it like he gave a damn

you know what is his take on the backlash

he got to experience some backlash himself during a deal with the in Ferguson where the Drudge Report reported that he showed where this guy's place was at so he dealt with the bun which I don't know if that was true or not I really didn't get into it I don't think it was but I don't know and anyway he dealt with a lot of scrutiny before so he kind of understood it but he kind of felt a lot like you did like anybody would they're threatening your kids come on you know what I mean

this is brown crab you know and I think almost every person you would even Piers Morgan you know who appears when did you see my interview with him no okay the first time I did interview with Piers when we caught this big shark over here in Huntington Beach right okay he was all over that that dude love that he thought that was awesome Long Live your fish and this is the coolest thing ever okay like we were kind of surprised right when we did that so then the rhino thing comes up and one of the producers

ooh search for that show you know calls me and I said sure I'll talk to him and so we are an adult ed called me and he said do you want to talk about it and you're welcome Thomas says sure I'll talk to peers how that happened I remember and so I they got me on there dude he came like guns a-blazing and at the end of it he's like you may have a point with the conservation aspects of this but what I don't get is you're hunting photos

okay so the rage about me standing there next to an animal bothered him like it bothers thousands of people okay and so yeah he said it in a nutshell mmm he said you're right but don't take pictures yeah you're you know you may have a point but this is what pisses me off well that's stupid that's his just a photograph why should you not capture that moment if you're going to do

there's no problem with doing it the actual act isn't a problem but the the photograph of the actor yeah it didn't rate that's insane that's insane well he's no longer on their Network well he's a douche bag well I would say that about a lot of people but that guy was involved in some really shady shit in England with the tabloids where the tabloids had attacked into victims cell phones you know that whole story behind it and a big family of a woman who turned up missing they they they got hope because they

and that she had checked her voicemail on her cell phone Well turns out she didn't the company that he worked for hacked into her phone and they were checking her voice how nice this tabloid shit man you know that's a lot of what he did was tabloid sensationalism wish it were even if he had an opinion on something you know there's a lot of what they do that what we were talking about before they're they're trying to get Social brownie points they're trying to yeah we're going to attack guns look dude

okay if somebody comes in here and you don't have a gun and I do you want me to just let them kill you not only that the way it typically he didn't I mean look Ted Nugent is a funny character to have on when you're discussing that but at the end of the day he's very fucking informed when it comes to that stuff very informed and Pierce wasn't prepared for that and he looks stupid well he did he did he understand like a lot of those shooting deaths are cops shooting people in the act of crimes like murder and domestic violence and robbery and every time I talk to you like a big

big talk to him talk to Erin Burnett on their talk to they may have come at me a little bit they didn't have the facts right and the problem is if you don't have the facts on your side and especially in the situation we don't have the facts on your side and you're left with I'm going to cut this guy off during his kids you've already lost right you've lost and and and so they're just left without raging okay but that ain't helping anything I hope agree with you or disagree with you if people are listening to this that they they get at the end of the day that this is a very complex

a situation that is not it's not black and white there's no good guys and bad guys and when you're when you're looking at something like hunting you're looking at something that has existed literally since the beginning of human beings it's been a part of what what created civilization in the first place what what led to us surviving and that's been somehow or another co-opted by factory farming

and fast food and restaurant chains and that has become our reality and our existence is entirely unnatural and disconnected because of it our relationship with the very food we eat is delusional and what you're doing by by being a part of conservation whether or not you know it makes sense to people or whether or not they agree with it or disagree with it once they look at the actual facts behind it they'll see that this is not

you're not doing an evil thing you know not only are you not doing an evil thing you're not doing anything that even can be logically criticized from the standpoint of conservation you might feel uncomfortable that someone's going to go over there and shoot a rhino you might feel uncomfortable about it but that's your right when you when you start looking at the facts behind it though it's very difficult to argue against the the idea of hunting as conservation whether you want to do it or not like I said I don't want to do it I don't want to go to

100 Rhino I don't want to Hannah brown bear I don't want to but I understand it I understand it completely and totally from the point of view of conservation well I'm glad that you do I think it's cool that you do and I think that it's cool that you're opening night minded enough to get something that you maybe you don't want to do because I think I think that's kind of the issue is like look I don't want to do a lot of things but I don't judge people who do and I definitely don't judge people who actually have a stake in the game when it comes to keeping

something around or keeping something good around you know yeah comfortable reality of attaching monetary value to life whether it's the Planes game animals that were on the verge of Extinction just a few decades ago in Africa that are thriving now because they're valuable or whether it's because a whitetail deer which there's more white-tailed deer in America now than there were when Columbus I mean we could talk for another three hours about like conservation success stories how about elq yeah more elk than the very existence you like Florida panther even there okay

Hunter's brought that back Hunters brought the wolf back Trappers brought the wolf back to North America okay there and especially like the Southwest right guy named Roy McBride Google it but so you can it's the people who live it have a vested stake in keeping it around and if Hunter if you have a problem with Hunters

keeping these animals around then don't go take pictures of rock rock White Rhino don't because the reason that why rhinos are is because a hunter's bro period the reason these white tail deer and big numbers because of hunters

okay so if you're taking a picture of it you may not get it you know and it's insulting to those who have done all the work to keep it around so you can have a opinion about it that's Justified or not right it's not it's not it's just your opinion of it okay and it's there for you to talk about it's there for you enjoy at a price you didn't have to pay it's a convenient opinion it's a very convenient opinion

and so I mean it's I honestly think that I don't know the average person especially when it comes to a lot of these wild animals really needs to look within yourself and think is their emotion going to help it and do I really need it do I hate this guy enough that he gets cancer and dies just because he does something I don't agree upon and then go over to Namibia and take a pic go take a picture of Black Rhinos that this situation helped stay alive

period okay I get so sick of the people saying well just because you get money in Africa it's going to krub not every situation give me a break give me a break you know my dream is for these children that live there to have a Heritage that we have with deer that we have with bear they can go out to a wild Place lay down at night here are aligned or or a hundred years from now I give a damn about that

sincerely I believe you thanks for coming on man I really appreciate it it was a nice long conversation I think we shoot it up we cheated up good I appreciate you bro I thank you brother Cory Knowlton ladies and gentlemen will see you guys on Wednesday Greg Fitzsimmons will be here until then enjoy your life big kiss

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all right freaks that's it it's come to an end I love the shit out of you people and appreciate the fuck out of you and I'll see you soon I'll talk to you soon where you'll see me something will happen all right