#1266 - Ben Anderson

Mar 18, 2019

Ben Anderson is a journalist, television reporter, writer and recipient of the Foreign Press Award.

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all right we're also brought to you by Squarespace Squarespace is the host of Joe Rogan. Calm and it is a fantastic resource if you need a website you no longer need someone to do it for you you can now do it yourself that's how streamlined Squarespace has got the process they have a simple easy to use drag-and-drop user interface and gorgeous designer templates that will allow you to turn your cool idea into a new website save you thinking about starting up a business you want to sell some things you don't know how to do it well each website you get with Squarespace comes with a free online store you can sell products and services of all kinds

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The Joe Rogan Experience

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where can I buy will I do want to talk about that or no I think you said and he said yeah that was bad he's a fucking Savage what did you do what happened refresh my memory on the entire time talking times you guys move towards the gunfire with the camera to get the shot and

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you. Talk to folks before who have worked as a reward journalist and they say you almost don't think you're you're you're you're so concentrated on getting a shot you don't think about the fact you might get shot at it's a safety mechanism yeah you think you're protected by looking at my screen Roz and realizing it's it's actually happening in real life right now. Grinch. Try to keep this so I got like a fist from your face perfect I was with the US Marines for operation much to write like the biggest operation of the Afghan war another town was controlled by the Taliban on a map it's one group of Marines and their mission was to get dropped by helicopter in the middle of this town at 3 a.m. Monday 1 and then just fight that way out in the middle of the town and then as soon as the sun came up all of the speakers in the mosques were saying the infidels ahead and get your weapons get your weapons

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and general McChrystal in Houston rule of courageous restraint and you know how to shoot unless you shut that unless you see someone preparing a hostile Act and the Taliban figured out how to use this so in this field 28 Marines watching the Taliban drop-off guys and buildings all around us with that weapons wrapped in blankets as soon as we start walking across the field it's talking it's like nothing I've ever experienced before me running tights into a ditch the guys either side of me Go-Go hit one of them badly and I was killed on the other side of the field on my straight away myself and because I was watching the whole thing through my camera

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I felt like I wasn't you know as much as dangerous as they were I was so afraid and it's raining on that offer while and just become numb and then I've resigned myself completely surrounded that number now RPGs and snipers I watched it back in the footage is pretty good and I'm changing shorts and zooming in on focus and I think focusing that help me help me how did you get out of it

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I just say I'm not even sure I think the Marine just started identifying Taliban targets and picking them off and then the Taliban run out of ammunition and natural and much left at like 6 7 hours don't stop fighting and then we run into a building which is which became that bass for 6 months just an abandoned building and they they shelled that whole night in the fighting card on the whole next day but but that's in the ditch I remember saying to myself idiot you never say no to anything you always just join up and sign up for these insane trips and if you survive today if you survive today than ever go out with these idiots ever again the next day they said I was going to launch this operation take this mosque

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is felt a good night sleep I mean I want to start doing this my dear Yogo willing to accept lesser and lesser Gods as time goes on because nothing happens and it's it's easy to get to get careless and stupid that's a real thing with violence right until you actually experienced it firsthand personally being enacted on yourself it almost doesn't seem real even when bullets at sitting by your head yeah just a weird compartmentalization thing that people are capable of is that what it is I think it is different I took part in this MDMA therapy for PTSD relations that came out as a result of that was 20 years ago thinking I could help people in Syria Palestine

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after while you lose faith in the idea so then you start feeling a bit guilty and think he might just here for my own benefit I might just hit the prophet in some way and not actually hoping whatsoever so I think that get made me think

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you're not important enough to have something as traumatic as getting shot or blown up happened to you thinking that so the the MDMA therapy need you

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sort of look at your rational perspective like what would how you rationalizing your your time and he's very very dangerous places and in ways that I hadn't even thought about it going on your subconscious who was service agreements and Arrangements in order to be able to still do that if it continued then again I haven't seen that how did you end up stopping cheers chest

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I mean this is a big I haven't stopped but I'm going to stop by I did the MDMA therapy thinking this will give me an excuse to stop I thought that's why I wanted three quarters of the way through the first session I was planning the next to your Ramen I mean people say you're an adrenaline junkie app that's not true at all it's not real to be there it's horrible to be there as in Jared's test every single time I still think it's it's important do you think it's important because the information that you can get the people there's no other way they can get it yeah I mean I wonder what impact that these days but you hope that everything I'm sure doesn't impact but I've been broken by this is the crime being carried out any difference whatsoever I'm not sure

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the Syrian one is one will you hear you hear rational people say that like Assad is not our enemy and that how do you what do you feel about that but I think we're dealing with the legacy of the Iraq and Afghanistan world in the even if you want to help what's the point you can't you weren't going to make it was I think a lot of people feel that when I think that leads some people to think that's not he's not a good guy he probably does have the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands. We should deal with him anyway cuz that's better than Iraq or Afghanistan because when we do get rid of a leader like Libya with Gaddafi you or Iraq with Hussein that what happens is you get this power vacuum and then it comes far worse who tried every model tried invading Afghanistan take me over a week trying to rebuild the entire culture and I'm forcing govern ourselves that failed miserably try to rock Olivia tried leaving from the back in a limited in

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mention the guys on the ground who do the fighting for us and then Siri we tried almost no intention whatsoever and all three have failed so I think now you can people in the thing I would think most people would say we should have intervened in Rwanda I think almost everyone might say I mean Bill Clinton would say that I think tomorrow you have a lot of people are saying it's not what we wanted help we can make the situation better so why even try

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but it's so hard when you look at the rest of the world and you see these horrific conditions and you see Warlords and power and he see atrocities being committed and we're sitting over here and in the valley watching on internet and drinking Starbucks you know it's just more know now it's it's almost gone and maybe maybe someone can have him with you because there is a lot we can do that cuz it almost seems like what you were talking about but in a far lesser extent the the feeling you get when you were in these war zone so it's almost like it's not real that you're you're covering it through this lens to your immune from it almost feels like we view the the mass of conflicts of the world that way but like you were watching it on television we're seeing it on our phones or I

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laptops it's not it's real I know it's real it is a real issue but it's not real like in terms of its not knocking on my door now it's almost like we feel about it that way and then it could be 800,000 dead now the people already think what was that means what does 800010 HP mean run today I think it's with certain numbers you you just they just become just becomes digits and that just doesn't make sense doesn't like if you hear Five Guys get killed in a shootout in the walls five guys are dead at he start thinking about you hear 500,000 people died on the other side of the planet it's almost it almost doesn't register him

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before you register as soon as I start reading about these situations in Austin the wrong side and these conflicts remember thinking about this every single day but I still feel like I'm out of step with most of the population but would you were so immersed is it hard for you when you come back and you see the Trump gossip and all the nonsense and all the things that we engage in a daily basis here in America that are really trivial it best I mean you know is it hard for you to you get to see the worst shitt happening in the world all the time is it hard for you to relate

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yeah I mean I mean one of the one of the main symptoms I had of of the PTSD from covering this for so long was was it was numbness to physical danger when I was there but it was numbness when I got back home so you'd come back and I used to think if I come back with with the footage I have of whatever conflict it's going to have some kind of impact is going to create some kind of Ripple where are you come back and you think it's this going to be the film's going to go out to eat if you'd be picking up in a send me a message that that's it information overload state

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I mean if you go back to the information you know no borders it's event I don't think what you can do, now that the infant of this is so some of the best writing you know I think he is but but how many people reading it I would like to know how many people read these articles from the beginning to the end yeah yeah I would like to see the night when you think about the amount of time that guy puts into an article

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guess his of its of such a strange time because it doesn't it doesn't seem like any other time it doesn't seem like any of the time in terms of our consumption of information or how much information we can sue me and it's like the sheer volume of it is it's almost it's almost insurmountable with the sheer volume of day to the comes in every day doesn't go away is New data comes in it just keep coming in a piling up that you know it's like porn right like you never could watch all the poor and it's not possible like but they keep making them open up Pornhub how many how many of them are there and that's you know that is really dead I mean but then all these crazy internet videos and stories in this is everyday it's something knew it's constant

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readable because there is video evidence but but it's the opposite of the case how much evidence exists deepfakes in the Des new audio editing abilities that they have to dig and take your voice and your your mouth and put some stuff in that he never said that and do you know it could be news I mean you could do that it could be a Sada could be Obama could be anyone it's so strange in the New York Times and everything is taken out of context no one reads the full context anything that is a small video clip and I was going to see the foal I think that's what is the next day in the New Yorker to be bothering him either he's one of the rare guys I've been paying attention to him a lot

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last few months doesn't seem to be getting older like a lot of them do like it's the concern that makes them old you know it's the stress of the job that makes more he seems to be sleeping in late I got it I got traveling I come back and read the headlines. Trump's having a meltdown screaming in the white house and I seen on TV looks as happy as a pig and chick I don't believe any of that shit they write I think they like that I think he yells at people but I think he yelled at people when he was a Real Estate Mogul he's a billionaire really likes progress like to make money he doesn't like in confidence yells at people

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I don't know man it's just it's who I feel like we're at this cusp of something very strange happening like we're in the middle of it right now but we're at the cusp of something very strange we're all would take is one massive world event 1 map to 2 completely remap how we we view each other and how we view things it's very disconcerting to me I feel like without that one big world event was not that far away from there right now are parallel universes right now exist on things that you would have thought everyone can accept that the basic fact like what in Syria white helmets that there are some fairly serious people saying the white helmets are some kind of media front for Al-Qaeda on those would you explain the white helmets for people say when they when they building collapses they go in and get the medical attention is as quick as possible

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and people think that they're somehow or another involved in it there a front series people say that he said that in the early days why do you think he believed it a few days ago I forget what I look at him and I think he's just spent his career believing rightly I think I might lie about what kinds of things and that's going to a point where he thinks will they always lie no matter what happened to love Chinese buffet Seymour Hersh

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Tavor putting she did I think is the best war for thing I've ever read Spanish Civil War Vietnam and was denying Massacre that happened in saying all Arabs lie they always lie there was no Massacre we don't know there was a massacre of these War so I don't know what happened to me maybe if you just do this for too long you just become so cynical when did the very people that are calling it The Very people that have boots on the ground and that are in these War zones are calling these things when they become cynical and they become jaded that's when it gets really really sketchy and we rely so heavily on people like it like there's I'm not going over there

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James are going over there you wouldn't be able to really get like I know people have gone to Venezuela and then come back and I don't know what the fuck is going on over there I don't know who to believe I don't understand it then as well as a very strange one and I get messages all the time and you know I've had a b Martin who goes over there and she has one take on it and I have other people that have talked to that have a different take on it and I do not know I don't know who to believe and I think you'd have to go over there and do you see to have to spend a lot of time trying to figure this out and we have to be the entire focus of your life to really try to parse it out

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I think I should have loved complex window covering 7 right things at once so yeah I feel like I'm not enough cuz it's such a left-right divide on that if you support your position then you find yourself alongside jump out and then Donald Trump which means right automatically even if it's correct and I think it's can say without a doubt that has killed journalists there is a movement that do one genuine elections but some people will say we're just because George Bush another area or jump out in this era support your position that for the opposition must be a legitimate information coming out must be must be focused

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and I wish people did rely on people actually went that but it doesn't feel like I feel that they rely on that you know the guy behind the glass desk on the on the news but they were allowed opinion we're all when people are we still have this idea that the person who is reading the news is the authority over the Don Lemon has the inside scoop or whoever it is you know and then that get the cushy job behind the glass desk in the studio now it seems like you can ask well we just need someone who's relatable who can read a teleprompter you know who fits the profile of the looking for whether it's Fox News or CNN you know all of these conflicts people on reading them

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with something like Venezuela. The real problem is you have two sides of two different versions of what's happening and it's if you're if you're not educated in that country and you don't understand the politics it's very difficult to figure out who's telling the truth

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and you know but I agree with you that I don't I don't necessarily think we're getting stupider or Dumber in this country or in the world in general because the internet but we're definitely getting weirder and our perceptions of actual world events and I think every time something at like mass shootings for instance like New Zealand every time one of these horrific tragedies takes place you see more and more division as I watch people fight over it on Twitter people blaming left-wing people people blaming right-wing people people trying to find some reason and this one is particularly disturbing because it appears that at least one of the guys I don't know their names I don't know if they're being released out of there with all the names of these guys have done this I haven't seen them so I thought it one of them seems like he's trolling like he he think PewDiePie

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and said that Candace Owens was his biggest inspiration and he's doing that I guess we could agree some people are saying that that okay sign is a white power sign I know we had this dispute with Tim pool are you saying I guess it is a game that some people do play what is it called again the look I don't know there's some game where if you look under the table and see someone doing it through a lot of punch or something something stupid like that I saw the Stephen Miller photo what he's doing up his Blazer and supposedly don't know why she had her hand like this and people are saying but that's what we were talking about Ron Levin right which is ridiculous I got evidence evidence but this guy in custody is clearly making that symbol and really like what is he you know what he's like some troll murder some troll mass murder means both he's both fucking with everybody and a cold-blooded ruthless killer

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they were praying that you have to have some serious hatred to walk into a mosque and come down he's a terrific but it's also one of those things were like we see so many of these now that we're starting to get numb whether it's a Jewish synagogue whether it's you know I'm Muslim temple whether it's a gay club where it where will it whatever it is it's like you see so many of these mass murders now that's just whether it's a school or a movie theater fuck man it's just it all like you were talking about

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when you're filming the news you're you're there you're watching the bullets fly by you hear them fly by your head and you are just watching it through the lens weird many many many many levels removed from that and we're sitting here trying to figure out what to do and we're not there when not where the boat in the people that are there where the bullets take place they try to give you a description of it and even they barely can comprehend what happened as you said we're going straight to the argument about how much time do they spend arguing on Twitter reading you know that that that being fat check and maybe it would be better if there was a website where you weak curated all of the it bulletproof that's terrible

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lochsa rock-solid investigative journalism jobs that are 100% interval that you could completely rely on for an accurate assessment what's happening because it is difficult for people and when people they rely on biased websites which many of them do with his bias to the laughter by answer the right things get even more money and there's so many of them it's so easy to get so easy to reinforce your confirmation bias with whatever you know whether it's left-wing or right-wing just find that website read the comments these are my people they think like me and then especially now that used to be a few conservatively needed read The Wall Street Journal liberal eating York Times now no matter how far off the scale you are you can find a pretty professional looking website people aren't looking at I need to find

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and that's as far as it seems to go you as a journalist as a person who risks their life to bring this information to people how does this make you feel I mean is this part of the reason why you needed to do that MDMA therapy not just the fact that you were really are without better using without a better term Shell Shocked right I mean you're that there's something that comes out of that that's got to be very very difficult to recover from and overcome yeah but there's also the fact that you're going over there and bring this shit back and it doesn't seem to you don't seem to give a fuk I got used to be what kept you going is is you feel like some of my work is going to make some kind of difference and when that starts to fade and you stop to think that's not going to happen that's not sure your work makes a lot of difference to the people that pay attention to it that I think we're we're overwhelmed

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by bullshit I think it's everywhere there's signs and what I mean bullshit I mean like nonsense you know Kim Kardashian psoriasis is in the front page of the CNN or something like that but you know what I mean like there's there's stuff that people are concentrating on it's like Jesus Christ

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I don't even want one of out one of our talks on HBO If It Go full million views I think that would be considered very good if you ain't Country

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well it's very difficult to get people to watch documentaries on real-world events you can get them to watch documentaries on like a sex cult from Oregon or somebody Wild Wild Country I probably got 10

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I don't know man you know this New Zealand thing really had me rattled and you know it is also strange people seem to demand a response the demand people in the public eye to talk about it and you know it say thoughts and prayers or something like that as soon as you say that for years and it's very strong

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I don't know if they are concerned that you're not horrified they want to make sure you are or who the fuck isn't like how would you not be I don't understand this or is it just they're just could frustrated confused themselves or just lashing out at any Target they can find or anyone that can find I don't you show everybody but but has been widely available for a long time now I think that's that's how I felt like I was going to have an effect that felt like that was the picture that was going to change things for a couple days and then more news I mean to be completely when you doing stuff for Vice on HBO you do get young people reaching out to you and say I know I did you want to be a photographer or talk to her

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maybe that's an effects that's going to be felt down the road I don't know I feel like I think I really do believe you do having a fact I think by certainly has an effect I think a lot of it has an effect I think it's very difficult to feel that affect if you're not experiencing it personally I mean to just look out on landscape and say how much of an effect this is having on people it's hard like where you getting the feedback from how are you how you gauge and whether or not this is changing people's perceptions

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will sometimes it feedback you do get is it on Twitter without reading the comments well there's a little bit of that and then you know I had Renee diresta on recently and she's done a lot of work covering all these various Russian troll farms and how they so essentially organize conflict online and you know they they set up these things we have like a pro Texas movement and they set him up across the street from a probe Muslim movement and they do it on purpose and then they have these pro-lgbt movement things online today organized to attack certain people and certain groups diminish certain aspects and defied parts of the democratic party it's crazy when you hear about shit like that on top of all this you like walking out to just the actual

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who's itself so difficult to disseminate it so difficult to figure out what should I pay attention to what's real and then you have this kind of shit happening on top of that you like a fuck you know it came out in the other means to keep on going and that may be evidence of the Russians directly influence the brexit vote all the brexit voters really going to look at the ultimate think maybe I was misled maybe I maybe I read turn off of Facebook. It made me vote only how many people actually have their minds open enough to consider

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how many special in American politics it feels like football tribalism very few objective people very few legitimate Centrist everyone seems to be digging her heels in on one side or the other and it seems odd that a lot of them just picked team Jeff I don't I don't necessarily think Dave curated these opinions and cultivated these ideas over many years of soul-searching and reading trying to understand who they are and how the interface with the world I don't think that's happened all your family has always been Republican coming out with something about your occupation you know depending upon your occupation and good luck finding a job and Tack if your right-wing you know good good luck working in the arms industry for left

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it's like this

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so weird weird time then yeah you know about the Nixon era thinking that must have a fascinating time to be alive but it's not it's not fast that he's just it's just depressing every single thing thing it must have been insanely difficult to get information right you you relied on Rolling Stone New York Times whatever Washington Post whatever newspapers covering whatever store you relied on all those

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but you you couldn't get it any other way now you can get it from everything mean there's people on the ground they're tweeting about things and then they become local celebrities are they become sort of like temporary internet journalists / celebrities

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fucking weird not when you view your perspective and your your life experience is so much richer and deeper in this than anybody else's

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did you do you think there's a way to turn this around this is going to eventually even out

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I hope so right now I don't see what that what that looks like what that looks like is the best way to describe it what does that look like I mean my attention span I think I'll sit down and watch a movie I am in 10 minutes I'm rich, I'm not perfect storm distractions by for a walk off but yeah you got to have real discipline though I mean you're fighting against a fucking heroin addiction then it's crazy man I know I walked into a restaurant the other night and everyone was looking at their phone no one was looking at each other like I'm in a movie this is a movie

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If instead of looking at their phones if everyone just looking at the sky you'd be like oh my God is a real problem these people are sick or something wrong if everyone is a sitting there with their hands Open Sky in sitting next to each other but these people are sick or something wrong they need help instead they're looking at nothing to check in their feet over and over again someone's complaining about Captain Marvel being a woman all the experts are they the ones getting followed on there is this free flow of information where you can find out anything in your hand when incredible thing but it's it's not like we didn't earn it is just given to us right it's not like we did all the work to curate all this technology and put it together and figure out how to implement it and I didn't know we just went to the fucking Verizon store

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picked up a new phone I mean that's that's what most people are doing it and because of that it's almost like being like a trust-fund kid or something like that it's just all given to you it's all handed to you all this I felt I feel the same way sometimes about weapons I feel like the discipline required to learn how to use one and create it and build it and then understand the responsibility of actually using it on a human being all that shoots out the window you just go to the store and buy it you know there's no requirements of you other than you never killed anybody yet have you written driven in over anybody in your car know if you rob the bank now you beating your wife know it's this as is a human being the lack of discipline and accountability that they have in this ultimate access to all these things constantly

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and many of them become just massive distractions and addition some ways is is the Utopia that people dream from not you're not going to stop you have everything you could possibly need so you think will become the perfect human beings and the absence was things that would have killed us in the past I would have made life hard in the pot and again that stuff but I don't think we operate very well without legitimate conflict without legitimate conflict in terms of like actual things you need to worry about like I when I used to live in the east coast was really noticeable was that when it snowed out people are nicer they help people when they're broken down on the side of the road they were nice to each other there was a sense of vulnerability that we are all deeply entrenched in this winter nature thing and we got to work together otherwise we can survive you know and I think that applies to all aspects of life that

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there's no real danger people become extremely frivolous yeah yeah it's amazing how quickly we be lazy and complacent days I'll come back from Yemen Syria wherever I'll go out like a cup of coffee coffee and I'll read the newspaper now and I'll think man I'm the luckiest man alive as you do experience these horrific environment so you can appreciate it. That's very kind of you can appreciate again this is you coming from these bad thing so puts it in perspective check if you can get to appreciate the basics again I was on the strip and Prince of Wales we camped out on this island it rained every day for Six Days Seven Days I mean we were so

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you're soaked everything suck your sleeping bag subject tents out everything came back home and it felt so good like I've never felt the sun like that before the sun was just dislike this magical of glow that the sky was pouring down on the city everything felt so happy and I realize like you can't really appreciate this until it's taken away taken away from you then you understand what it is so then you wonder when the kids at the daycare mystery they don't understand bullshitters either because likes like when I was a kid people just a lie about shed and you really didn't know he liked me and I don't know it seems like it's full of shit you couldn't just you have to go to an encyclopedia and you know when actually read the information now you go okay what year did this happen you pull up your phone get the fuck out of you

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fix the light about this they lied about that

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yeah it's it's good in that we have ultimate access to information for people that use it and understand what it is and appreciate it is good but the appointment is actually filter is verifiable this contains 7 things which are absolutely wonderful but it still felt like you end up being described the scene of a on one side of the fight us feel like we need some sort of organized discipline like maybe like a mandatory volunteer work cleaning up impoverished communities are mandatory volunteer work doing that but I don't want people to have to do things like I'm conflicted on that too but I don't want people to have to do that you know this countries that have mandatory military service they seem to have an amazing feeling of patriotism in those countries and preciation in those countries because they actually do have to join the military for 2 years or whatever it is

► 00:45:15

I don't have that over here weird and to a point about going up and cleaning out cleaning up and you get to meet other people outside of your yeah hey when you talk to people about Muslims LGBT whatever it is you think I was cuz you never met anyone on my way to Brooklyn 5 years 6 years ago and a few friends that have been there forever and I supposed to say but I can't believe it by Clay movies and restaurants on the dividing line between the and the projects are two blocks that way pretty much will Black Ops 3 blocks that way pretty much over

► 00:46:15

videoke Studios and boujee coffee shops and pet spas and and the to Community Church did not mix it with each other or they just did not make different language different everything why does the sea Trophy and perception that there is a place where everybody is cool has a reputation for lease in Brooklyn people walk around about amazing pieces of Journalism Buffalo New York school system Public School System the most segregated school system in America in New York and the choice was the the very good well supposed to school in the gentrifying mostly white area or the bad failing Public School in the nun gentrified mostly black area with her kids education might suffer

► 00:47:13

and I think I'm remembering correctly but her and her husband had a real fight about it cuz she said no we could have put it in the in the bath Fan Expo and help it get better and it's going to take years and automation software in the short time but that's what we have to do it when living in this neighborhood it's incredible piece of children when you're when you're thinking of your children your you're always thinking of their safety always worried about them you want to protect them so putting them in a situation where they wouldn't be as protected is never your first instinct oh she she was in town hall meetings where in a progressive white liberal parents he would be very left-wing on every other issue we're really fighting to make sure that kid went to the good majority white school diversity but they want a black friend yeah yeah yeah that's when people think of Brooklyn they do think of it as being like the most diverse place

► 00:48:13

yeah and it's Jeff I mean Street by Street segregated Atlanta's pretty diverse Atlanta's interesting you know because Atlanta has a lot of there's a there's a lot of

► 00:48:28

pause lot of everything in Atlanta but it's it's a very black City in a lot of ways but also very White City you see a lot of black and white people hanging out together and clubs bars and restaurants and stuff and it's really like much closer to like a 50/50 split in a lot of places at least in some of the neighborhoods and I've been too when I got back to London on the few things I'm proud of about about London yes it's it's not a big deal for a group of friends and family around you would know I'd ask you is that because London didn't experience slavery the way the United States did we have a colonial history a long time we've had a huge Pakistani Bangladeshi Jamaican community and it's it's you know I mean here if you have black friends or you date a black girl or its people think you're trying to prove your

► 00:49:28

Rush there it was just normal normal way more integrated. I'm still 5 6 years after I moved to New York that sits there still a surprise every day took to reinforce a different animal now New York is so fucking expensive it's so strange and my friend. Judah Judah friedlander who lives there said he's he's lived there for a long time he's like it's so changed it used to be like a lot of artists and a lot of creative people and it goes now to finance people here we go to finance everybody just wants the most expensive suit in the most expensive watch and they live in this ridiculously expensive apartment and I thought that one out in the eighties I thought that was like wool American Psycho that's that's still very much exists that still prevalent year old who's graduating with a degree in fine

► 00:50:28

just trying to figure out what he wants to do and he's thinking about moving New York and getting a job in Wall Street please hesitant because he's a nice guy he doesn't want to go dark you know and I'm like you could go to the dark side like these people are not all of them but a lot of them or just straight-up materialist they're just chasing money when you're in the money business and you're just chasing money like there's your reward is things your reward is objects and status and clothes and houses and shit and sometimes he say so what are you do you do very well rewarded as you can see do I look for fluctuations in international grain markets

► 00:51:17

congratulations what an amazing thing to dedicate your life tell me if you just said what they do rather than what the reward was right this is ridiculous what a waste of your time it is but the status of being super wealthy for a lot of them is worth it cuz I really don't have a passion right they don't have a thing there did not trying to write a book They're not trying to make a painting or whatever the fuck it is again you know they're just trying to make the money and they're making the money so everything is great quotes about it's whatever Circle that you're in certain circles I can Finance circles it is about those things more than it's not because those things represent success in your industry your friend should read a piece

► 00:52:17

Matt Mason e v e by Michael Lewis I need to talk to a bunch of graduates are about to get approached by the big Banks do you think you're going to do this for two or three years and a few million dollars and then do something worthwhile with your life but what's going to happen is you're going to get some juice then you're going to get the movie channel 20 years ago by for the exact advice I gave him yesterday the exact advice I was like man you got to do something that actually makes you happy don't get sucked into that and he was saying I was thinking of trying it for a few years

► 00:52:54

that's what they say yeah man once you once you get a mortgage when you get a car back then

► 00:53:08

yeah it's some it's a strange thing to the stock market. The moving around of numbers looking for fluctuations in the market and the fact that would drive me crazy is when you hear that people have gotten servers that are closest as possible to the market because that the pain because they're they're using algorithm so that everything is done off of a computer program in the closer they are the quicker the transaction takes place and it actually can be to the tune of millions of dollars they started trading floor where there was so much cable that no one could benefit from those who know those nanoseconds in the other Banks Jamie was telling me that there's a game called fortnite and all the kids play and they're moving to Columbus Ohio so they could be closer to the server error

► 00:54:08

to be closer to the server so that they could pain lower cuz it's like a real business at but at least these guys are playing a game to skill I mean they're like $100,000 yesterday and last night

► 00:54:33

in a Stadium playing playing football on the computer in Esports arena in Vegas right at the Luxor so I can Esports Arena franchise fees for the next season of Call of Duty or 25 million dollars of teen witches like for guys on the team Dallas for the Earl Spence Mikey Garcia Errol Spence is the real deal I mean I thought Mikey Garcia when I booked in for a few rounds at least early on and then maybe inexpensive size and power to make a difference but yeah Buxton from yeah he's a lot bigger to wait to start his career at 1 was it 135 he was featherweight champ 26c pull pull it up Mike Garcia see what they fought it 47 and Earl Spence looks every bit of 147 I mean he's a big fella he looks like he

► 00:55:33

Flight 154 easy and I Michael Garcia just looks so much smaller than him at the whim but it wasn't just the size it's like at Errol Spence Jr just the real deal he was smart to I can hear him talk you so smooth and Winky Wright in the next five six thousand well I mean he's he's taller he's wider he's more muscular and he's probably pretty dehydrated make in the Wailuku Roberto Duran how much time is life yeah yeah yeah he was dancing at the way and then chairman certain Fighters were dancing he was dancing to it's pretty funny what is he doing now is he you like working as in them promote these things is that what's going on he wasn't he's so beloved these what a crazy story that guy had right like to go for that. No mas fight he was

► 00:56:32

he was shunned I mean the hate it there Mass shame across the whole world for years until he beat Davey Moore that's one of my favorite fights of all-time tenacity just slowly, with all of his friends from Brooklyn tickets so they just rushed the security gate the three or four of them would get cool wow wow yeah I remember watching that fight thinking that he was going to lose and I was a big Roberto Duran fan sure and he fucked anymore up any more wind up dying a crazy accident where he was working on his car is driving it fell on him

► 00:57:15

yeah he's a felon ever ran him over like one of those saying that he's trying to fix his car something fucked up like that and dim lights dim at one point when you said the level is something to they think that's what can over his eyes swell up pretty bad that's when the fight that makes me feel a bit guilty about loving boxing brutal business you know I mean

► 00:57:43

I don't know if MMA is more brutal I think it probably is

► 00:57:47

there's a lot of pokes the eye in MMA a lot and most of them are there unintentional most of them but a bunch have to be intentional should I come from good night boxing this is my sport when you see a guy go down and he's clearly out and the guy jumps women in pounds if I know sometimes the reference to getting a bit too much for me this weekend or am I a doll he knocked out there until and he KO tum he clipped middle left hand on the way down and hit him in another left hand and then Darren till is Flatline completely out and Moss without uncorks a bomb right on his face while he's out cold is Rob I mean correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like a boxing crowd appreciates a good skillful technical match I feel like sometimes UFC crowd will be cheering at that moment you just described humans like brawls I mean there's a reason why Arturo Gatti and Micky Ward was such a successful Trilogy is because those guys would just beat the fuck out of each other that they were so close

► 00:58:47

Mansion airboat these Blood and Guts Warriors and they just stood in front of each other and they were we knew at the time that these guys are not going to be Floyd Mayweather the not going to be the best guys there their they're good Fighters world class Fighters but they're not world champion and there's nothing that we look at when we watch Fighters like fighter could be good but there's a there's a Fighters that we appreciate but they'll never fight for the world title they do they have no chance and then there's Fighters like this guy might be the best in the world you know there's a difference you know any good by Floyd defensive skills but he never going to have that at war with Micky Ward Arturo Gatti never but he's also going to be fine when he's 55 he'll be able to talk and walk and you know nothing happens to them to him he didn't dare the punishment the beatings those guys had that's the the saddest of all is when you see these guys you see them on television you see the war you see the fat but you don't

► 00:59:47

the aftermath you don't see the struggles that they have at their memory you don't see that the confusion of the anger out of nowhere the emotional outbursts will they don't they don't know why they're doing what they're doing or why they're saying they're saying there's no break before you can retire did you see the other feel about Michael been just came out on Netflix about that loses series no I did not ask that's worth watching us boxing the box back already successful career in Hollywood for juicing plays and movies about two blocks away like it's always very happy when someone finds a path you know you just get the sense that boxing with never him and he found a way at the end to be him and do some money left and he's driving at it which is which is a rare thing for Xboxes It's Crazy Ones people are just good at things a guy in MMA like. Anthony Rumble Johnson was one of the most terrifying fighters in history

► 01:00:47

sport just a ruthless knockout artist and lasts last loss he was talking to in the Octagon I was interviewing him and he said I know I don't like fighting I'm not a fighter cuz I'm an athlete I'm just good at it and I was like wow that is a crazy honest like in such a introspective way like he's like looking at themselves since then he's thought about coming back but I'm sure there's no thrill for you but do you think that being in these incredibly tense environment ramps life up in a way that you don't get outside of it like did you did you re tribe Sebastian Junger he was when I was having a few problems he was he was very helpful

► 01:01:47

Seafair like posing with a dog tag on it like a bubble looking picture at the Moon tosser I couldn't could be a bigger fan of his he's as a human to just step this very genuine really there when you talk into him but that's sort of his take on it is that you listening I know I talked about that book too much I just love it but his take on it was that these people are experiencing life in this incredibly extreme environment and then they come back to the rest of world it just doesn't feel real anymore so it's not it's not thrilling but it is real drum you sing life-and-death drama right in front of your face when you come back you think you really want to see this person see this film try out this new restaurant and then you get back and you just he said okay just feel flat yeah I mean

► 01:02:47

numbness back here for the things that should be pleasurable and should be providing some kind of relief as well PTSD treatment get organized through maps are you part of that study you feel about about Rick open in this this together this effort to to get MDMA legal but I've been in denial for years and years and a new producer joined by Scott & Bailey and we had the first idea what he was getting some ideas and he mentioned and I guess I'm helping and then see if I'm done MDMA recreationally before that I mean yeah I came of Age and what is the difference between doing it a therapeutic environment therapy Boston for 24 hour

► 01:03:47

the therapist knows you and knows your issues Sonos have to like flight leave in a gently not you towards the right to pick up conversation but always makes it makes you actually get to conclusions asking why is this happening why do I think they send him put it back on me and make me put two and two together sometimes you listen to music sometimes you don't sleep you just have a quiet 20-30 minutes but it said it's a very intense 728 hour therapy session of the MDMA just enables you to get the benefits and all of the veterans and First Responders who took part in the first round of Trials have been therapy resistant I think the first round of the 72% of them for the benefit summer considered PTSD free after after 3-month trial so during the three-month trial how many experiences do they have one a month

► 01:04:47

they lost some friends in a rock and it felt guilty about and always thought maybe if I've done something different I could have saved them and he imagined being them in in the first ending my session and they were saying to him why are you ruining your life your life your Healthy we want you to have a fun productive full life and enjoy your friends enjoy your family and he said that gave him permission and that was what he needed he didn't even do the second two sessions what an interesting way of looking out of course and that weapon Mission cuz there is so much guilt you and she's getting permission to just give yourself a bit of a patent this is real yeah yeah

► 01:05:26

a lot of people to come back from the war that lost friends have that horrible feeling that it should have been them that they're not as good as a person who died or that somehow or another them being alive is the reason why other friend was dead irrational thoughts or maybe I didn't really experienced it because I came out on Skype which is one of the reasons why I didn't see treatment foot he is needed and yet been kidnapped and killed so maybe I've only just did my toes so there's nothing nothing nothing to complain about what was your number one issue I think the numbness to Danger enter to pleasurable things back here I mean like my cameraman in mosul we were there when they are all kiami bics and it was it was half the house fighting we was stepping on bodhi's to get through rooms at one point we were with three or four Iraqi soldiers trying to get to the river to call please to Isis positions and they got ready a message saying there's a suicide bomber in a gun man running down the street towards you now

► 01:06:27

so step into this what you thrift shop that's open up and smashed to bits and I sat down at the Two Souls just tried to shoot a suicide bomber as he was running towards us and someone said I didn right next to the rebel with an ID the day before think of two days before two French journalists and cut his journalist have been killed when they stepped on an IED trying to get out and having a monzon I might my cameraman just said you looked bored

► 01:06:51

and he keep telling it like we got that I remember just looking so bored and I couldn't give a shit about the suicide bomber that i e d I was just bored out my brains and that's when I thought this is this is not a natural reaction to what's going on around you right now

► 01:07:09

what did you think your natural reaction should have been I mean blood right in greising hot right where are you seeing and vigilance you know what did you think of the time was the cause of you being numb

► 01:07:21

while it was happening that much about PTSD I just thought I'd become so used to this and unwanted things that came up in the in the one of the Lost sessions I did was I didn't think enough to get to get shot in head and have Medics rush over to help me and maybe I have a couple take me out and you know I know that sounds ridiculous now but romantic happened to you you're just you're just witnessing other people in these dramas

► 01:07:51


► 01:07:54

be right next to an IUD and not freaking out it's pretty crazy Brave and I would say it wasn't bravery I wasn't scared and then did it anyway I wasn't scared I was just numb and just respect from other journalists from the soldiers like who you getting respect from it doesn't feel like so talk me through this therapy so you fast for 24 hours you take the MDMA and then they just start talking to you about the things that are troubling you grams in a man that hits about a lot

► 01:08:44

is a good dog's I've been in my hit you take another 75 so everyone that's that's a good dose and that keeps you up at six seven eight hours and then you're the therapist was very brief questions just as knowing what direction to push me and I remember the first session I'm not at fault because of what I now know I was PTSD I thought because of the job I did and because they're this kind of darkness in there I didn't get involved with anyone seriously for very long time and even though I'm not going to have a family and kids in the house and talk and you know just how do you feel about it that's not for me because of the job I do right and very early on in that first session often I resisted it from an hour and a half at what was really resisting it for a long time and thinking it was this wave of relief of course you can

► 01:09:38

so she can I vote on it it felt like a revelation cuz I thought I had been close to me for so long but the item at seven eight years maybe longer. Just don't understand you can't do that so few or you, but someone else through that with you what is it particularly about MDMA what is it about I mean I've done it but I've only done it once the is it just because of the fact that it just alleviate see and security and allows you to look at things in the morn a chiral since you took everything is if we just talked about having coffee or water everything is just easy to think about an address and talk about I think I'll probably spend it badly but I think the science of it is you have five networks in your brain and and I was basically a fight or flight mode so much that that was the only mode on you so even when I'm back in New York I mean fight or flight mode all the time to help your brain is ignoring the other parts of your brain to provide context and the say that buying outside inside the car backfiring it's not an ideal someone shooting

► 01:10:38

the ndma just allows your brain to other parts of your brain to communicate again you're not just in that fight or flight mode so once you get out of that fight or flight mode you can then address things that you can even begin to address before and once you've had these experiences it for you was three experiences their profound enough that you retain the benefits some of it looks like I'm in the 25% that still have PTSD after 3 months but it still helps enormously me the next day they got me to sit down and do it a video diary and I was kind of saying yeah I thought listen to this was Revelation and I'm just I'm just smiling now anyway. I don't feel like I've smiled but he is like I feel like my whole face and smile is the next day which is usually a little wrecked I think it's 2 or 3 days when you have the show me Tuesday to be 5-HTP or anything while you're

► 01:11:38

nothing apart from MDMA you have you have to shave Worcester out I mean maybe the come down is related to you know people that used to take it with Just Dance and sweat maybe maybe it's a shity MDMA maybe you can so I know they're having very positive results with this and are they planning on implementing this to the public in anytime short-term mean is it something that like people to listening this right now it's just going to be available to them very soon as it looks like it should be legal by 2021-2022 the third round of officially FDA-approved trials start soon and that's the first one that involves people other than veterans and First Responders if that gets good results of the first two trials which I'm sure it will then then I think it's going to be in because after ye gave it breakthrough drug States if there's nothing that anyone can do to stop

► 01:12:37

illegal by 2021-2022 that's very good news for a lot of people that are suffering yeah it's so difficult for people to change perspective just to have a break from the the normal sort of momentum of your life and to be able to stop and analyze yet that's exactly what it did to me I was just in this rock for so long with it was impossible to talk to look at things did you think about changing your life

► 01:13:04

yeah I don't think about a lot right now I'm semi I thought I would retire after this Sim this therapy bump but I think I said before that I was planning and expel next series this is still want to do what you got to do is smarter I'll go to take breaks ankle recovery in between trips there isn't this pressure to be where people getting their heads blown off everything is fine but yeah let me spend a week on the front lines with the various fighting groups and go to the usual crazy fighting footage but the power. Was a woman that I like blown off by a strike in an IDP camp in a miserable IDP Camp weather Saturday in Amarante the claiming that providing people with everything they need and then at the end of child malnutrition fournette fight on the front line where a nurse just begged old parties to end this war as she was she was literally on the front line surrounded by a Minefield couldn't get doctors couldn't get supplies at a few dozen kids in this Clinic that she would just managing to keep alive and he's wailing emaciated babies with ever

► 01:14:04

Cage's cage that case in the reason you do this at the cover the effects of War it's not to get crazy footage of explosions and shootouts is the effect of War on civilians you know so maybe the answer is to do that and not feel that pressure to to to just get the crazy fighting with you all the time in our country Yemen is in many ways mostly synonymous for drone attacks

► 01:14:30

drone strikes is when we think about Yemen we think about the drone strikes that we hear about on wedding parties they accidentally of the the number of people that are accidentally kill the civilian casualty rate is some Preposterous number in the tens of thousands at least and it's the percentage is also Preposterous it's far more than 50% right yeah I mean it's so used to be us drone strikes on on Al-Qaeda suspects now it's Saturday emirati a strikes and with with us assistance when we were until recently refueling planes flying the planes flying the weapons but yeah they fit weddings funerals schools hospitals I didn't think that's that by accident I think that taking her approach to Yemen that the way to crush the opposition not take out the ministry leader and you come then I moved in history that's been crushed by for that never work

► 01:15:27

Jesus Christ

► 01:15:29

when you're over there what does it feel like in Yemen is opposed to Afghanistan or other places in small groups of guys at some distance just loving shelves each other and Anna Stanley snipers in the dark and fight but it's not as Big Sky Ellis is Iraq or Afghanistan but they're regular a strikes The Killing civilians and while the two sides fighting this this slow and Buddy the infrastructure of being destroyed and the civilians are unable to get basic food and medicine. That's the real shocking thing that I don't but you see Americans everywhere Eminem rap show these million-dollar Bond food trucks I've never seen American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan

► 01:16:30

how did Yemen become this area that's so synonymous with drone strikes like why did we approach them in differently than any other part of the world in terms of the that the allocation of drone strikes are the numbers I don't know I think for a while the only thing against Al-Qaeda that's where we killed an American citizen that would also headlines right on purpose because he said it was it was a very well-known and popular online presence and routing people to attend to fight the air strikes in Yemen with you as Weapons off. That's that's that's what's really killing people and meeting the people can't get get food night that because you just come move things around that whatever came out of

► 01:17:30

guy getting killed they basically no one was punished for it mean he's an American citizen he was if it was in America if somehow know this guy was suburbs of Chicago and they launched a joint a drone strike on them it would be front-page news and it being real issue with the fact that was in Yemen

► 01:17:50

I mean again the legacy of Iraq and Afghanistan is that now we're killing guys like him with drone strikes or Special Forces rights here now it's happening on saying it's supposed to be illegal I mean some people are still tentative to Invasion on trillions of dollars in American soldiers coming back with no legs for a we don't understand Brian I think a lot of people are willing to accept it did the other thing about that is with a lot of these even though it does seem to be illegal people sort of shrugged their shoulders and then no one pursues it and then it just kind of goes away but there's some stores that for whatever reason like Jamal khashoggi did not go away and still still out there like it was so egregious is so crazy that this guy walks into the embassy

► 01:18:50

just never comes out and then like I don't know what happened and then slowly you start getting a different story and then apparently there's leaked there's audio and perhaps even video of his murder that ordered by the way by someone who was hanging out with Jared Kushner off the woods with apparently not to mention when you see shit like stop. Has got to head home the last few years but the vagina especially in a few, he wasn't an American citizen but I was I was I was arrested in roughly the same time and she was raped and beaten to death so the people that citizens of these countries that are really ready bearing the brunt of these guys they can get to them and then

► 01:19:50

get to the family's very easily. That takes a whole other level of of Bravery the woman who was raped and beaten to death with it what was she involved with without you sing with me but I'm all over the place if your juul citizen working as a journalist in free complish application banks by I was giving you being a spy they tried to get me to confess to being a spy that's a very normal sumption are there and how long were you in jail for 278 days what was out like actually physically it wasn't it wasn't too bad I was fed out of bed bed I was about to think it could Loft months and months and months so I didn't think I could go to an executed

► 01:20:50

what were they trying to get you to confess to one point they said that you travel the world collecting information and you don't share it with your girlfriend I said yeah that's exactly how it works and they thought I was insulting their intelligence by by saying that

► 01:21:09

will you are there covering series 1 the first series I did was go to holidays in the axis of Evil so I spent my first four years is a genocide the cover for camera and luckily I paid on a cup of dogs with a guy who was not very good and so I looked genuine next to him to the control busy to said give this guy a series to be a foreign correspondent wanted to cover conflict and George Bush made the axis of Evil speech and John Bolton added three countries to the list so it was a rock Syria Cuba and North Korea Olivia Cuba evil countries countries May and one cameraman house until camera that's when he first went twice about eventually joining them but kind of documentaries from the streets up to say you know and it was

► 01:22:09

need to get a bunch of students who are involved in some famous protest in 1999 why the police came in and smashed the dormant trees and burn them down and beat them I think because we into your damn we were then trachten interested

► 01:22:22

so how'd you get free how do I get a free I didn't know at the time if two countries have diplomatic relations it's only a big deal after a week so on the night of the seventh day of the week. Let me go

► 01:22:38

five no idea what time I felt this could go on months and months and months now when you were over there in around what is their perception of the United States me talk to the young people over there oh love United States music culture Sports everything I've been wanting to try to cover was the Friday rally at Tehran University will you see if one chanting death to America. To Israel I mean when to cover it because I bought an old man from the countryside he said that wrong Ryan Crocker who was the former ambassador to Saudi Arabia Israel Iraq Afghanistan straight off the 9/11 he was sent to Geneva number of countries affected by the refugee

► 01:23:38

prices for meeting to discuss have to deal with it one of the countries is wrong it says I have this meeting and then he and his Iranian counterpart would disappear if I he says 17 hours of a t to discuss the future of American are on relations they knew that they were going to get rid of the Taliban so the Iranian said okay here's a map of the Taliban leaders home if you take out those times when they won by the finished thank you, I take notes on this map they said we made it for you gave him the map let the Americans use a ring and a space but I'm kind of us in prison they were absolutely key and I was running the Taliban so quickly and Ryan crack was making good progress and then talkin about the future of Iraq post-saddam

► 01:24:24

one night you get to knock on his door until this time for coming inside boss you already know, like what's just happened you should watch this happened and it was the axis of Evil speech so the motor it's so cool you're on good for her to get permission to negotiate with the great Satan the u.s. send you made us look stupid

► 01:24:45

it's hard for us to get this chance we helped you in Afghanistan we were willing to discuss future relations between our two countries and and this is this is what happened so it's hard enough to that Iraq and Iran is sponsoring the Insurgency and giving them sophisticated IDs and rather than you know potentially helping

► 01:25:07

so you think that with a Bow Wow with one speech

► 01:25:13

yeah the whole thing shifted yeah so they would they would have been willing to somehow or another negotiate or cooperate or I mean at work at 3 to eight year we have a very strange relationship with Iran I mean going back to the hostages from any of the Jimmy Carter era country send a WeChat me when you I should go to that in other people are so smart and so agitated and potentially such good I like so what is the the key issue is the government yeah yeah well I just explained why I think that capable of thing being far more rational than than the speech is by the crazy old mothers with what's a Jet Li Netflix yeah any idea that the founding emiratis can somehow

► 01:26:06

Palm the houthis in Yemen into submission and pushback it raining influence on their southern border is is ridiculous that just never going to happen and I think even if you ignore the obvious moral argument I'm just more pragmatic point of view the idea that we should back this unconditionally is is ridiculous see this is just part of the real problem when you're dealing with world events is trying to park all this stuff out and look at so many different stories from so many different parts of the world and so many different areas of conflict and it's almost impossible to pay attention to it all

► 01:26:41

every time I meet people from these countries I'm I feel like a fraud because there's so much that they know that I don't know and I should I get paid to do this I get paid to pay attention to this for a living and I don't have my regular I'm not smoking on the five or six countries that I focus on the other than everything else what other countries do you focus on a few years has been Congo quite a bit Afghanistan mostly The Rock Yamin of focus on a lot of the last 3-4 years are the main ones is Brazil recently been since I can Republic recently but but not talked to a friend of mine's from Brazil who has a completely different take on the new leader of Brazil like he's more positive about it when I talk to other people that says monster I mean if people in Brazil living through the car in chaos I can understand why they might go to a dirt at a type figure to say it's going to be messy but he's going to clean up right but he sent me some

► 01:27:41

yeah and they are experiencing some crazy economic crisis as well as we did a film that recently and I might might get the number slightly wrong but the amount of people that were murdered in Brazil in 2017 I believe it was was double more than double the amount of emergency Rio Olympics the trucking gangs in the district RI took all of those areas that were pacified to protect the tourist during the the World Cup Olympics so that violence is just come right back to the playlist

► 01:28:27

2nd shift so much shit to pay attention. Oh yeah yeah I've been a few times and I've been beautiful people green eyes for a friendly at the airport on the way to Rio and you like woah this is this is a different kind of poverty to block the view of the fellas is starting to fall apart and you can now so you can hear if you if you stay close to that you'll hear me how many times we were still one guy who was suspected of being a police Informer so the the traffic in gangs who captured him his legs are you lying on the ground put for rifle to his head I just unloaded

► 01:29:22

Christian was still kind of where it should be by everything else was this is when you you got there wild violence day on a massive scale the poor kids getting shot in the favelas my stool black if you walk into a bar and if an email with a black girl if she's a prostitute if you walk into a bar and if any man with a black guy ever again the exact opposite of Ipanema is the more wealthy area cuz they are able to lift a nice hotels in apartment blocks but they still must get robbed all the time down there right used to be that that the violence was separated from the regular Cheerios but they're on now

► 01:30:22

I'm leaving because it's it's it's affecting everyone now I mean that the one we expect me to get in in the last film said that I believe it was one and three we are residents will get caught in crossfire at some point of the quote about my might be wrong not believe as one entry

► 01:30:44

I mean if you want even near that you'll hear it most not your head private trust me five most night I'm not like boom boom boom on your head

► 01:30:56

what time do you spend over there and what are you covering that we did a film about the pacification campaign the police and army clearing the favelas before the World Cup Olympic so we went back just to see just a sort of illuminated for people to think that this is was Brazil's actually like

► 01:31:21

dude I don't know how you do this

► 01:31:24

you're so friendly to but it's so easy going with you seems so peaceful like you don't seem like a Shell Shocked guy you know you really don't you seem very very even six months ago if the diet Dan Reeves made the Michael Jackson documentary I saw him in New York Felix Neverland, but I've heard that those two guys at testified saying that nothing had ever happened to them before this and then then now they're down on their luck and now they've changed their tune and saying that it was they they going to that in Indy tell in the dark and basically they've been replaced by the new youngboy been kind of going to the side and said I need you to help me and then they say it was exciting the idea to be

► 01:32:24

to be back in Michaels good books be wanted by Michael again but one of them sent me I think has has what looks like the symptoms of PTSD in the other one I think went through therapy before he was able to talk about this stuff so I don't think that doing it for the financial gain what did you think about the doctor Michael Jackson's doctor saying that he was chemically castrated

► 01:32:53

oh I didn't I didn't hear the new Empress has been something that we talked about before because his voice was so different and to me I said a long time ago before his doctor came out and said he was coming through Castro Sunday sounds like a castrato he sounds like one of those men who are taking his boys and they know the 1800s and 7/8 I think that was with this is the doctor that killed her mother is so take that with a grain of salt right but they were saying that he chemically castrated him to preserve his voice which you know it sounds Preposterous to you look this Frame made did not have the frame of a person who had those kids are not his kids is the whitest kids you ever going to look at it there really white I mean they are not part African-American me and keep we got to remember before is vitiligo

► 01:33:53

okay then he was very dark you know he looks like his brothers yeah I don't know I don't think I'm pretty much established that is kids weren't really is kids I think is the woman that he had children with I think it's on the record saying they never had sex but I think the documentary script is a portrait of how you grew am not just a kid but the family is well and some ways you groom the entire country to the point where if accusations come out if one says no way that's that's how it works when he look like a monster and Michael Jackson look like a monster eventually but when we always go back to him as a boy when you sing an AVC mean he was just a door of a little kid and crew

► 01:34:53

early talented and so Dynamic and exciting to watch like God he's so talented look at him and then in Thriller I mean everybody loved him but Jimmy Savile looks like a monster in retrospect I take it you have the show called Emma fix it right when I brought you your wish to give you a medal and he keeps his mother's bedroom exactly what it was on the clothes hanging in the closet in his lifetime yeah, I guess I have to be groomed the entire country well there's so many cases like that where you have the systemic pedophile situation that doesn't make sense like how did this out of this last like Penn State like the Sandusky case like how did this last how did everyone seems to have known about it how did it last seen a kid in the shower

► 01:35:53

now you're killing yourself if you didn't to be in some way it's actually incredibly widespread that just wasn't sure whose Catholic Church priests we knew about that every other than that we have is no discussion of like some world famous football coach who was secretly fucking kids like that you never heard that I mean and Paterno they thinks I don't know there's no way you could have known at least been exposed to some of it into the conversation we had an idea I remember that fat guy protest in front of the Statue Guy comes up and tries to beat him up for daring to suggest

► 01:36:53

it's a religion it's so important to them and sent them to see that these people that were in charge of it we're so fucked up

► 01:37:03

Jesus man steals a bummer but you don't you plan on doing this MDMA therapy on a regular basis and what sort of an impact you think of me when you go over the results of the first therapy where you are is almost immediately alleviates U of A lot of your feelings but you still are thinking about planning your next adventure in your next project session the therapist recommended a full session which is being able to cry and be a major breakthrough therapy unless you normally can't cry at all since I was 13 years I was only fourteen so different because that predates your War correspondent yeah yeah I mean English culture Encino my grandparents to be to be tough in the first normal therapy session I told her

► 01:38:03

White Oak when I read a story about an experience and water therapist and he cried and then the 1st and I still get my jaw trembling and I kind of thought that's going to be this what would have felt like a breakthrough and still have them, but what were they crying about I can't remember what you just said the show's been a bum like the stories I just tell him you know I'm joking kind of joking about it this is one of the Avengers come back from from Yemen I what's it like in him and then

► 01:39:03

can you go to dinner with fellow War journalist

► 01:39:19

what are you going to talk about stuff you already good friends and we can talk about all this stuff that's all I know

► 01:39:31

the mutual in a man back pain with each other other people from you from your background for your country you should be talking to the people from that country a lot of journalists when it's possible in Afghanistan and Syria and Iraq have a pretty good life you stay in the five star hotel you eat wild drink wine every night and you can interview you get information from each other and I think that defeats the point of for importing so I don't spend a lot of time with with other Mulch and the involvement to weather how How Deeply you're immersed and it's it's it's completely upside down in the state because the TV Nugent TV news journalist involved

► 01:40:31

picture of them looking like somewhere in Middle East in the closest to the front line with Brian Williams type situation five star hotels about what's happening with Isis guy some of those guys are paid millions and treated very very well the photographers and print journalists what is it about the talking head in front of the camera that we want so badly and I think it's it's it's a way for them when you see them get deployed and focused on getting material from the war in these countries that focused on the on the two-way from

► 01:41:31

days collecting footage of what's actually going on if ever these days it's more and more rare and it seemed to me that during like Desert Storm in the 90s there was always someone that was over there and it seemed like it was real threat and it was really going on but now everything seems to be done from the desk and you don't really see a lot of me and my right about that in most of the major news networks set to that cruise you're not allowed to spend the night and muscle can go there and fill them the street into some refugees are just escaped I should cherish you but you can't spend days on end where are the free Lance photographers and some of the prices they was spending days on end. Is it because the on camera people be targeted I just think the risk is too high. For the entire crew stories really big can you send one of the very well no correspondence that and yeah they can't be running around filming house

► 01:42:31

so when you're over there and you see these guys show up and you know they're just going to be hanging out at the hotel and what is that feeling like

► 01:42:40

yeah I'm pretty disdainful of those guys do you have to recognize that that well. And every night but whatever bar or restaurant you're obviously in the wrong place right right and it's no it's not an invention you know it's not a fun trip for you. While times and you haven't said it shouldn't be that it should be I mean from a field like an insurance that every time you got it should be hard and you should be spending time with the people you're covering and then if sometimes you can you can think you've finished with someone just go for dinner or t i just by having a normal human conversation you find out so much other stuff that you didn't go that to report on your that's that's what you have to be doing I'm not taking weeks weeks of getting closer to them and gain their trust that end up being in the right place at the right time to show something really happening I'm in most will be filmed

► 01:43:40

you're lucky I'm attacking a house where Isis was shooting from the house and there were three or four families in the house so they are all County show Isis of the Isis guys went down and encourage the families to run towards us and just seeing moment of civilians fleeing and escaping Isis for the first time after three years when they turned the corner and saw rust and you that made it and I just collapsed the ground they were kissing the ground they were hugging each other as the moment she never seemed really like it

► 01:44:11

Jesus Christ and how they get them out of there what do they do for that stage I mean they'll eventually walk out of most of itself and then there are people that can take them to the IDP camps around there and we'll we'll get them the basic Services I need an end Medical Services but there's not that much about that. That was a shocking and Yemen was the places that sounds even brought you said we're being so well supplied with food and water and Ensign Medical School teachers just want to know if you're internally displaced off a flat you know cuz I imagine the unimaginable and it's one of the biggest controversies in this country in terms of what to do when the refugees, what what what do you do some countries are taking them in with open arms some countries are not and there's a lot of people that are concentrating on the negative aspects of taking these people need to communicate community

► 01:45:11

what is your what is your take on watch on this thing happen while watching all this Friday and Saturday in Houston with a group of Afghan interpreters who I've been with in Afghanistan the special visas and came to America with that with their families I can't think of a better group of people who are contributing to tell life I remember Saturday morning they were they were running a food bank jobs that paying taxes yeah I mean I think we should welcome them with open arms and I think you know this might do that I think we would benefit from from doing it and you know it

► 01:45:50

we turned away Jewish refugees during World War II think with lunch nothing Say Never Again American Christian I think Christianity is fairly clear Washington with refugees to tenani say no to refugees but them taking it I mean that's a level of viciousness and ignorance. I just I just can't fathom the ignorance is it

► 01:46:23

it's very pervasive right it's like it's one of these things what we don't you don't know who you're here you're really stories and there is people are telling you that these are fighting age male and we could very well be letting Isis into our country very well could be letting in these terrorist cells and allowing them to come in but we also could be letting families in that this is a country that's made of immigrants mean it's one of the weirdest things in this country that this is a country so

► 01:46:55

so obsessed with borders and immigration that but yet it's comprised entirely of immigrants is Richard Spencer and Richard Spencer I think makes a very similar point and Richard Spencer says this country was built is the patient documents for supporting Trump so I thought I'd might be but he says this is just ridiculous looking for him I don't know anything about Richard Spencer other than he always gets mentioned as a white supremacist I literally don't know what it stands for what he does what he says

► 01:47:56

this is a know it's such a crazy subject the idea of I mean

► 01:48:03

it would be nice if the whole world was up to the same standards of health and

► 01:48:09

and prosperity and you didn't have to worry about where you could go if the whole world was essentially like the United States where you could go to where the good parts were you know if you live in Detroit you save up your money you can move to Florida or wherever you want to go and you can do that this is the beautiful thing about living inside of a country be fantastic if the whole world was like that but you just kind of go wherever you would prosper and wherever things to be well but this the thing about refugees in other countries where weed understand their language of their culture and then you get scared because he hear that the Muslims were worried about Muslim terrorists and

► 01:48:48

it's against one more piece of information that just overwhelms you one more one more thing church and child abuse Scandal people say all that for all Christians are suspicious and I will Christian the secret a paedophile what's fear of the unknown you know that's a lot of it the languages and the fact that were you know there's also this there has to be this feeling that we've invaded their country several countries and been there for a long time and there's a deep-seated resentment that you know there's the thought of every time you accidentally blow up a wedding party with a drone every time you kill civilians every end times in collateral damage you're creating Untold numbers of people that hate the United States having travel to Mars

► 01:49:48

Countryside I don't see don't see that what do you think about negotiating with the Taliban I said that I'm now these guys killed your brother because you were working for the Americans an interpreter so how do you feel about the Americans now doing a deal with the Taliban and what about if the u.s. leaves in the Taliban finishes off the government comes after your family is such an iwalk America's not going to let that happen America has so much power I knows what to do that they will make sure that any agreement between the Taliban will be enforceable and I'll be safe he had so much faith in me

► 01:50:29

wow that's that's why I have far more often than then the opposite is it does that really depends on where you go because if you go see certain places people have a lot of faith and Trump

► 01:50:39

you know like Donald Trump going to protect us from evil this is just play places where you got it but I do think you'll find it all places Crystal of American foreign policy that doesn't mean I could tell of America how many parts that out I think I mean Vietnam have defeated communism has been defeated in Vietnam just because the new generation grow up and think Western culture of Communism I know which one simple choice and I think that is making that very simple Choice head coach of Maine democracy Western culture provides more freedom and more Economic Opportunity more prosperity and I haven't had a problem from the Taliban I haven't had much antimatter I can feeling in Afghanistan that'll really interactions with with Americans

► 01:51:39

but I would even say as many mistakes have been made in the prosecution of the war with airstrikes and nitrates and all that the American soldiers and Marines we met when you were good people and end it like I said with my trucks my interpreter it's it's incredible how many people still believe that to this day there are conspiracy theories so for example in a rock you'll hear people say what Isis must have been part of America's plan and competent Scandal explained what happened in a rock this kind of be a mistake people believe that over here as well but that still doesn't mean they'll hate all Americans in America and it means a lot of them would love to visit and maybe even coming if it is that anything that you took seriously though those conspiracy theories is there any validity Tiny Tots. I mean

► 01:52:39

2002 18 years later a trillion dollars laser tens of thousands of Lies later when I negotiate with the Taliban where they might catch a very good deal that's a massive humiliation for the US and also the wrong Russia know the device is not coming to me and lots of countries so that doing whatever they want almost gloating about it knowing full well that America doesn't have to have the public support to intervene anywhere else for a very long time what's the predominant conspiracy theory that they want to prolong this war because of the military-industrial complex because they're spending tons of money in getting contracts and oil of actually in a row I understand exactly how I think this is exactly what they want.

► 01:53:39

and what do you say to that I mean. He sees meant far more senior people in May so it's hard to argue with him but that's the creepiest thought whatsoever that the government wants his Perpetual Wars I mean that is the scariest conspiracy theory I'm not saying a supportive but if you wanted to consider a conspiracy theory that's truly terrifying it that they keep Perpetual Wars going on so that they can profit and at George HW Bush Bill Clinton benefited from a strikes you know there's a quick possible bump in terms of your approval ratings not that's that's been proven many times but these walls Iraq and Afghanistan and I haven't gone so long and resulted in and I think the humiliating defeat in both countries and I want anything from that well there's a numbness that this country has towards them now but it's been so many generations it's been so many years

► 01:54:39

there's so many I mean what what were the numbers of troops have gone over to Afghanistan and Iraq and come back just and not come back to just went staggering in Iraq Helmand Province in Afghanistan and now back in the hands of the Taliban and I don't remember seeing a headline about that no no it's conveniently ignored because the public adjuster you know you know I've had so many people come back and body bags or without legs and thinking I don't even know what victory looks like that I don't even know what the point of this is is anyone there we 16 years in is that what it is now

► 01:55:28

I mean I say the longest war in American history the first for five years we went for a walk for a quickly and wasn't doing very much in Afghanistan so do you know how do I get to know a 19 19 year-old but it's it's a very long

► 01:55:41

does this ever give you this feeling of hopelessness like do you like yourself 40 years down the line still doing this like how do you how do you how do you approach this I think about that I was to think about just selling everything I have in getting a little house in Jamaica and just for your loyalty and I tried to do my bit I'm not sure how much of a bit I did but but yeah like let's see if you can get that feeling very easily yeah I would imagine you you see so much and you see so much anguish and so much pain and suffering and death and War and so much of it seems pointless but after a while you might want to just detach disconnect he said you know when you read the numbers are the stories I just I can't even take it serious anymore. I mean

► 01:56:43

I mean I could make documentaries about other things but I just don't think it would be did this this field agent to me and I question how useful this world is but it feels somewhat useful useful thing I can do for now I'm not talk to her I know you know I'm not a politician so even if it's not that much use it some more useful there's also the problem that you've you've dedicated so much of your time to I do think it's very useful you dedicate so much time doing this that if you were to make a documentary on something frivolous so this guy's a cabinet maker how do you do a bob yeah yeah yeah you might lose your fucking mind I don't think once you've experienced what you've experienced is probably very very difficult to look at the at the world through a normal lens and be satisfied with normal results to dismiss anything else you did

► 01:57:43

Phyllis Patterson to covering the Americana style Conga or ever so do you actually just take it project-by-project and just keep going

► 01:57:52

yeah I mean I'm thinking about this every day right now because like I said in the first Andy Mac I thought this is what you want to do this is this is what you care about this is where your heart is so I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep on doing it in a different way and take three months ago to read nice books and just just just then see how I feel in my favorite quotes is M Disney Chase Visa credit no fool not had in the open air while walking in and beautiful landscapes will it be nice to make the decision in a place like that when you caught up in the momentum of these chaotic events and then I'll be there to see it do you think you really could take three months and go to Costa Rica have you done that before I did 9 days in Jamaica recently died in the whole days what was it like on date

► 01:58:52

I loved every minute of did you realize she felt like my brain kind of woke up I just felt curiosity and that's that's horrible and I just I just felt you know curious again I felt like my mind and I focus on them I took it and I let you know I was I was in it to experience not. I loved it

► 01:59:21

why don't you just do that then take those three months

► 01:59:25

I hope you get everything you wanted to know if it was quick I mean in the past and you can go to a big fight and enjoy and leveling kit for a big dinner and joy and love it but that's about it you know a month of luxury somewhere I think I would I would guess you're not covering this fight when you went to the Earl Spencer evening world champion was actually it was great people hit my latest film it will make you feel really good maybe this more of those near future

► 02:00:15

yeah I saw that the other day about maybe a documentary about the gym that then he comes from which is a door that leads to the basement of a bodega in Bed Stuy and they have three world champion wow it's any world champion you beat Miguel Cotto boxing is a kid to his daddy built in the basement and that's why he and Danny came up that's in front of all people won't even know have you been to Crunch Gym in Detroit no I haven't been a crappy gym with one ring a few bags and that's it and then tell me how it looks in and Henry akinwande able to see in the middle of a car walks in and send it to that I had Lennox Lewis on the podcast

► 02:01:15

it's amazing I was wondering if chest is what's helping him you know because he doesn't seem to be sustaining any of the long-term and she got knocked out yeah yeah yeah he really did you know I mean it's it's amazing because chest is so it's so difficult and your mind is constantly firing and it it and the Brain in some ways does atrophy without use I mean whether it's not physical activity in terms of the size of it but it in terms of its abilities the more active you are solving call George Foreman used to do a lot of crossword puzzles and things along those lines and he actively sought different difficult little quizzes and puzzles and things to keep his mind sharp I met at Quincy Jones a couple months ago

► 02:02:15

by the way racism in Brazil by Quincy Jones

► 02:02:47

yeah so he does these things specifically to try to say sharp yeah yeah yeah I think there's something to that I mean I mean obviously want and I total case but man he's so fucking sharp but that's what's so frightening about the numbness that comes from the PTSD if it takes away that curious to your text when I get called a off the way that the energy that's that's terrifying the numbness yeah the numbness that people will people in extreme poverty and extreme stress they they do experience that sort of numbness especially if you're in a dangerous neighborhood and just you're overwhelmed like you were saying about how the adrenaline eventually wears off and then you just kind of hearing this weird Gray State

► 02:03:34

imagine someone someone in prison if you can awaken that you know who knows what a difficult I just need the right book or the right person the right fellow there is a place where I believe MDMA therapy could really have some amazing results yeah I think that's the dream is to get in and do this in a prison cuz I guarantee the majority of those guys in that are suffering from PTSD reaction reacting to it and the majority of them are probably going to be used and come from abusive environments and horrible situations

► 02:04:16

did the idea that we just take people and lock them in cages and say well you've done your time now get get out and now you're going to be even more fucked up and now you're you know what your habituated who used to being surrounded by violent criminals good luck in the world even hotter or is he got out of jail and that she's going to pay his rent for 5 years or so to get him on his feet apartment I'll head that don't want to take him in yeah yeah it's and we don't ever want to give anybody a Road to Redemption you fuck up once you do something wrong wondering if you get accused of three years before even stand trial sure I want to start the other day I think it's 94% of trials in the US settle donut on a plea bargain

► 02:05:12

don't even go to trial and I thought that was wrong and while they scare people you can plead guilty and get five years but you can go to trial and you probably get fatty which is insane yeah like what why would you give me five years if a judge would give me 30 like what is that what is that mean sort of mechanism and end in ensuring that they don't lose and they scare you want to risk it all you want to 30 years you won't have a life but five years you will not get out in to be a good fella don't stab anybody in jail

► 02:05:57

what we do with people in this country when someone commits a crime has it's pretty stunning and then when you factor in the fact that there is actual businesses that evolve or revolve rather from profiting off of people being incarcerated is even crazier is that either too many people are bad criminals and you don't want them on the street what would you want do you want to think about all the good people out there that are struggling concert of them first then what but this is part of what's wrong part of what's wrong is these people are in these terrible situations terrible communities know where nothing no positive image to model everyone is a drug dealer criminals crime around you all the time you wind up in the system

► 02:06:56

he become incarcerated and then that's your life now you're stuck in this thing and then there's more of them in American prison anywhere else on the planet Earth turns to write I mean there's so many fucking stabbings in London now it's really crazy yeah yeah I mean compared to shootings hair but yeah it's it's it's definitely a problem like StreetWise policemen have a pot for local community getting intelligence going on and off then you'll see if I need to study video of two words

► 02:07:56

then how do we fix the world

► 02:07:58

I have no idea in my damn damn I would say that and make a good argument for it and really believe it's a really good argument for psychedelics remapping the world there really is in the end he says spiritualised well well peace I look at him like he's serious about to send the amount of the amazing great doorway because of its work with people trauma but psilocybin is as well and you know psilocybin obviously comes with these profound breakthrough psychedelic experiences that completely remap your perceptions of life but show you a whole world that you didn't think could possibly exist and then all the other ones you know the ibogaine for all these people

► 02:08:58

hooked on pills and was one of the most effective drugs or known molecules on Earth are alleviating people of opiates yeah that makes people compassionate and crying to themselves as well as the others or scared you know they're scared that Ensign you don't people just in constant states of conflict mean that's a big thing that's going on this world and one of them's a psychedelics do is they give you a brief break

► 02:09:36

from that conflict in a while and then give you these thoughts that he probably would have had never achieved without these drugs that's exactly what I just removed a nice. Yeah yeah I think it's entirely possible I really do I think it's a real does this a real case for us being able to set up some sort of clinics some sort of supervised psychedelic experiences where one after another people start changing and then that trickles down they start changing the people around them people say will having a mic like all my did mushrooms at this new Clinic that they're opening up in the changing of the new guys ever person so nice and then they join two and I mean I just think there's so much room for that in this world it's so difficult to change who you are people rarely change they become a slightly different version of who they were

► 02:10:36

5 10 15 years ago rarely actually change what's a great way to get in I'm in the very wise Maps is in their approach to this one particular modality because if they can actually achieve this you're going to also achieve it and help people that are in the in the community that is least likely to accept psychedelics right-wing pro-war you know Maga people like those those people than those are probably the least likely if you wanted to generalize step to accept psychedelics what's the Fox News segment with Rick could do a pro ecstasy peace and I said no but if it helps the veterans I guess we're for it to write yes exactly

► 02:11:36

lower crime rates to give people and mushrooms and if dimethyltryptamine can change people's perceptions there's so many of these different drugs to that you could introduce people to under a clinical supervision setting where you could change that let me know how many people are involved in Psychotherapy and it doesn't do a goddamn thing to them they ain't going back and forth or they numb them up with Billups I was so lost right away when the world becomes all the bright colors are gone and the world just becomes weird that's exactly everything potential opioid crisis because it's a therapist sitting down giving you the pill right I don't give you 50 pill if you can if you want logistically doing what you say

► 02:12:36

Shelties bark is it in there becomes a business then it can happen I mean once insurance starts covering it once people start experiencing positive benefits you can get it from both sides right you get it from the Commerce aspect you get money starts coming in people start paying for it and it becomes a business that successful it actually has good results people start talking well about it either people start opening up these these centres there's so much potential to this and those people at maps and Rick doblin and all this crew there they're really they have the real potential change the world at and actually went the first session when I was really resisting in fighting it I just imagined Rick's face and the Met Office faces in in South Carolina kindness and benevolence spaces and that's what allowed me to just let it wash over and hit me

► 02:13:35

Johnson Johnson just got permission to use to tomaka they've actually catching me and right now the dose of ketamine I had was this but $90 they going to sell it for $15,000

► 02:13:50

that's that's the danger of it getting properly legalized in as you said turned into a successful business that's terrible ya know why is it so expensive just so they can make money off of it now this is the therapeutic dose of ketamine in some sort of psychiatric sort of like what what's the environment they're going to do it in time to stop giving in the study in their own office on Main which is which is what's going on now have it controlled and under in a hospital sort of situation and there is a very good but they're all therapists giving out and I think you can owe you bought it with a prescription prescription is ketamine legal

► 02:14:47

legal under by prescription maybe it's a schedule 2 drug or something along those lines I was going to send me the message about the $15,000 to 15,000 yeah which is 5 words about 5 more than the amount that Martin shkreli go out the price went to jail for he's a douchebag though appointed him and now he owns that Wu-Tang Clan album

► 02:15:19

he's in jail I saw you still running his business for my coat burner cell phone in jail that's hilarious what would he saying is the what happened to the Wu-Tang Clan album

► 02:15:32

I thought it was in possession of the FBI Come On Son that shit it's hilarious hilarious part of that story the FBI owns the Wu-Tang Clan forbidden album

► 02:15:48

how much did you put in appealing a million dollars for it cuz it was up for auction I think this says he paid 2 million

► 02:15:56

wow it you can never get that money back especially if the tracks got released

► 02:16:03

but my great marketing tool is worth more than $200 in marketing

► 02:16:08

natural supplements confirmed he paid 2 million for it though you know I mean how many wealthy people out there are Wu-Tang fans lot probably a healthy bid healthy bidding war mean when it's an individual that's like him that's easy to it's easy to look at him disparagingly like look at this guy he's a dick you know all he wants a raise the money or raise the price of these drugs that can help people fuck him let's go get him cuz it's Johnson & Johnson so I can pay him first.

► 02:16:54

you know they're so respected it's such a common household name and then ask it to me that sounds like a snail that sounds like escargot and it's the nasal spray go Jesus on a different that makes it but well it's better than shooting it up because I know that a lot of people take intramuscularly where you just jabbing into your thought I believe yet it says the drug will only be given by accredited specialist you must monitor patients for 2 hours after Administration I don't think you can just get it and go home so that makes sense cuz I know Neal Brennan did it and he had some very good results from it I told him a few times he said he's had some real depression problems though he said some very good relief from magnetic therapy

► 02:17:49

yeah and if you seen the involuntary trembling thing you did as well know something nothing I'm just talkin oh so he just doesn't impress yeah it gets him to do it somehow and that helps him yeah by watch the three Mike special thinking it was just another comedy stand-up I had no idea about that was standing just keeps getting better but you know he's a guy fighting demons

► 02:18:32

he's the classic case of the comedian that can never be happy unless he's onstage killing you know and then you don't even then that's brief like he's just never this jovial funny guy but he's a brilliant comedian yeah but as long as I've known him for many years he struggled and it sounds like he's kind of an unofficial executive producer for a bunch of other comedians as well like a whole bunch of people I'm sure it's taking people definitely respect them but I am sure he gives people taglines and gives me advice and stuff like that is very smart guy and it was a joke just to tell us a story and had no idea wow yeah I know he's a special guy it's it's hard when you know but I've had a few friends take her life

► 02:19:29

3 in the last year and you know yet you see a guy like Neil and you know he's constantly pursuing all these different therapies and constantly trying to find something that alleviates this depression and you just keep hoping you keep hoping you keep searching keep it and hoping that one of these things sticks wind seems really say mean he's very very proactive he's always searching for new things is very open about it and talking about it but the ketamine does seem to have helped him quite a bit and he was telling me like man he's like this is so fucking crazy I'm going to the doctor's office and having a full-blown psychedelic experience is at the doctor's office for 10 minutes and I laid on a server in a therapist office for 2 hours and I was out on the street again 2 hours later so how long does it take for a kicked-in

► 02:20:26

I don't mean no cuz I never thought it was kicking in then I just found myself saying things including things but I wouldn't normally say and for the next week and a half I just felt I guess the weight of did you have any sort of hallucinogenic experience like no hallucinated all Listen to listen to music quietly but a few minutes here in the air sometimes didn't talk at all but yeah just tell Justus relief especially off to his like in the in the week and a half or so I need a point about Neil being so open to trying everything even that even taking that step is hard sometimes even getting out the door sure is hot in this stuff and trying everything in it when I first moved to America I said okay to do yoga therapy on a prescription drug test New York bulshit when they open to everything that's that's that's

► 02:21:26

hello and self what was hard for people to try anything new I mean you have to respect any time anyone does anything new the first time I've person straps on a pair of running shoes and goes for a jog it's fucking hard to change gears and will be curious enough to try in the first place once you take you can take it you're on a ride yeah they take the fast MDMA session was as frightened more frightening to me than going to see real Yemen or so

► 02:22:01

I guess the vulnerability I just don't have to say things and accept things that you know how.. Against for so long as a British thing I think is a my identity has been tough Brave War correspondent and you can you can like that respected and yes it is but when I had that feeling of relief in the last I guess I lost my first session sorry about you could have a family in the dog and kids and enjoy it and be happy little sharp Army that resisted that info know that somehow taking a foot off the gas that somehow losing sight of what's important and what your role is and what you can do to actually help things

► 02:22:50

doing whatever is good for you what seems so conflicted because you obviously great get a great benefit out of this this ability to help you and you really do help and you really do put yourself in these incredibly difficult situations so there's there's something there's that there's a positive aspect of it but for sure there's a price you're paying that's pretty substantial before the ndma therapy. So if the price is on your way home and you're not enjoying the things that most people enjoy then that's the price you pay now that's that's that's you know what you want to do whatever the prices to the idea of that being the case

► 02:23:32

I hope that's the case I hope I'm not being the case is actually the case yeah Wilson been thank you man thanks for coming in here thanks for everything you do I really appreciate it was great talking to you and I wish you well if there's ever anything we can do please let me know thank you

► 02:23:51

thank you everyone for tuna to the show and thank you to squarespace.com the host of Joe Rogan. Calm and maybe the host of your next website if you're smart you can make it yourself don't need to hire anybody you can do it through their gorgeous designer templates in their seamless easy to use drag-and-drop user interface if you can do normal shift in a computer you can build a fucking bitch and website with Squarespace go to squarespace.com Joe for a free trial that's right free then when you're ready to launch use the offer code Joe to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain okay okay we are also brought to you by honey-honey basically free money honey has over a hundred thousand five star reviews in the Google Chrome Store and it said it's 10 million members in an average of $28

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$0.61 and it's free yes no reason to not use honey it's free it's easy to install on your computer and just two clicks and you can shop with confidence get honey for free at joinhoney.com Rogan that's joinhoney.com Rogan and last but not least we are brought to you by the cash app

► 02:25:18

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