#1054 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick

Dec 18, 2017

Dr. Rhonda Patrick is a Ph.D in biomedical science and expert on nutritional health. Her podcasts and other videos can be found at FoundMyFitness.com

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hey what's up everybody New Year's Eve I'm gonna be at The Wiltern theater in Los Angeles California with the Great and Powerful Ian Edwards should be a gale time Flintstone style to show 7:30 and 10 p.m. I'm excited New Year's Eve before that the 29th I'm going to be in Las Vegas at the Mirage Theater to still some tickets left for that and a whole bunch of new comedy dates all available at Joe Rogan dotnet forward slash tour I just announced a bunch of second chose for Bakersfield Fresno and some other spots and more more shows are going to be announced soon including Nashville that's going to be announced on Wednesday okay okay this episode the podcast brought to you by Squarespace Squarespace is a wonderful way for you to make a website it used to be an incredibly difficult process it used to be out of there

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they come to you zip recruiter is different because unlike other job hiring side zipper Critter doesn't depend on the right candidates finding you it finds them aha no wonder why the almost didn't say that right no wonder why 80% of employers who post on zipper crew to get a quality candidate through the site in just one day zip recruiter the smartest way to hire and right now listeners of this podcast can post jobs on zip recruiter for free that's right free just go to zip recruiter.com forward slash Rogan that zip recruiter.com forward slash Rogan one more time to try it for fucking free zero money zip recruiter.com forward slash Rogan my guest today is one of my all-time favorite podcast guess I've said that a lot but you know why because I've had a lot of fucking awesome guests but she is

we amazing her name is dr. Rhonda Patrick if you have heard this show before is this her seventh time she was saying seventh podcast appearance over 21 hours of Awesomeness she is easily one of the smartest people I know and an amazing podcast guest any podcast host the found my fitness show she's found my is called found my Fitness on Instagram her Instagram page her Twitter page has found my fitness she's awesome her name is dr. Rhonda Patrick and she's here now The Joe Rogan Experience joined by day Joe Rogan podcast by now

boom and we're live the newly mommy dr. Rhonda Patrick first of all congratulations on making people thank you man first person yeah the cloning project was a success we were talking before the show about what a strange biological shift happens in your mind and isn't it is it's amazing isn't it and not adjust your mind right like your person absolutely yeah it's completely amazing and I had no idea that I would love being a mom so much yeah I kind of waited till later in life to have a child and you know that was for a reason because I you know really driven and loved what I was doing and Science and I felt you know I didn't feel that calling to like I've got to reproduce of got to reproduce and then finally I was like well I if I don't reproduce now I might not get a chance so you know I that sort of pressure kind of nudged me a little bit I think but yeah the whole like process of getting pregnant and having this like

you know person growing inside of me just the whole thing was amazing and then after having the baby and he's like a person now and he's four months old and developing this little personality I'm like so amazed by how in love I am with him and how like how much I would do anything for him and how almost nothing really affects me as much like stress of various things in life you know I just look at him and you know see him smile at me and do some little things that are like uniquely him and the Wonder and on his eyes and it's just like gone like it's really amazing so yeah it's crazy it changes your life it changes who you are as a human being you know and interchanges it in a way that you did you know I have a lot of friends that are like I don't want kids I never wanted kids like well I kind of didn't really want kids either you know when I was 30 like a like I wanted kids but then once you have them you realize like

like I was just sort of attached to this idea of living my life the way I was living it and then I'm like this is the way I like to live life and then you have a kid you like oh no I love this kid more than anything like so now my whole idea of what life is yeah shifts into this new paradigms in the also the thing like reproduce always weirds me out because you're not you're making people not reproducing anything you know I mean you're making people it's a whole new person you're not reproducing you true I mean you obviously it is in a way I mean there's definitely reproductions the right way I mean you're passing on a lot of the same you know variations in jeans that you have and you know you're obviously you know they there's similarities in the way they look to both you and your spouse but yeah it is a completely new person with a new personality but of course all that is shaped a lot by your diet and exercise and all those things that you do even you know aside from your actual

genetics and passing on the sequence of DNA like just you know things that you do in your lifestyle actually can affect you know the child's neurocognitive development and you know met metabolism now will you cognizant of that or you obviously you're very aware of that but did you what did you do to act on that I should ask yeah so I mean I did I'm definitely became obsessed with trying to optimize everything I could you know because I'm a scientist and I can sort of sift through the literature I think I you can you can kind of get stuck in this Loop or you want to like optimize everything and you kind of have to like chill out a little bit but you know during pregnancy I wanted to make sure you know all the micronutrients I was getting you know because they're so important for brain development and like folate magnesium iron zinc and then DHA vitamin D all these things were super important actually with the DHA a I found out that taking so DHA is the Marine omega-3 fatty acids

probably found in like my growl G4 vegetarian sources but in fish fatty fish well it turns out that the DHA that's in what's called phospholipid form which is something that's found in the row of fish so like fish eggs hmm it's also found in krill as well and fish only have like a small percentage so fish have DHA like 1% of their DHA is and phospholipid form whereas the row of the fish anywhere between 40 to 70 percent is in phospholipid form wow and the thing that's really cool about this is that the phospholipid form it's been shown when you take that orally it stays more of it ends up in the phospholipid a certain type of phospholipid form in the blood that has been shown to get into the developing fetal brain ten times better than and DHA and non phospholipid form free fatty acid form so is this something that should be consumed like for regular people as well or for like primarily mother's so yeah for

I think both but the fact that you know gets taken up into the developing fetal brain 10 times you know better was enough you know ammunition for me to be like I mean the salmon Roe you know right right but but yeah so they're all have also been studies on preclinical studies on taking DHA up in fossil performing in mice it's taken up better than on phospholipid and then there's been some clinical studies where they like radio label and follow it in humans and again it's taken up better in the brain by humans as well and actually what's really interesting is I just submitted a paper for publication on Alzheimer's disease and a certain variation in a gene called apoe4 which I think you and I talked a lot about traumatic brain injury and susceptibility to Alzheimer's disease and basically a bunch of you know dementia type of problems well apoe4 sort of helps increase that risk so I've

turns out there's because there's different transport mechanisms to get DHA into the brain the phospholipid form appears to be better for April before and that's sort of my finding I'm not going to get all into the mechanism but that's hopefully fingers crossed going to be accepted for peer review from peer review with the next couple of months that's fascinating so will you eating salmon Roe that's what you're saying you were getting your Source from I was yeah I was I was eating salmon Roe I was ordering it from a company that you know has a wild Alaskan salmon Roe and they you can buy it in bulk the company was called vital Choice tastes nasty nasty during my first trimester I was like maybe I should wait but you know it the texture people a lot of people don't like like Dan doesn't like the texture because like the salmon Roe is like bigger the fish eggs are bigger and so it can kind of pop and like you get like little fish or use those to fish for trout really yeah yeah trout would eat salmon Roe

we would fish for trout using salmon eggs well I mean the salmon eggs or like quite a bit larger yeah they're a bit larger there's other ones like I think it's the flying fish that are really small and you know the the phospholipid DHA in phospholipid form varies from species you know different types of fish and things like that but generally speaking there you know it's a good thing to eat and especially during pregnancy so how did you consume it on avocados I put it on top of avocados with some lemon juice and like like hot sauce like so okay just Juiced it up and like a Paleo drink yeah yeah it was like a lot of fat so avocados have like potassium monounsaturated fat and vitamin E all the different forms you know so avocados have monounsaturated fat and saturated fat right they have a small amount of saturated fat probably a small amount yeah there when I say they have like typically when I talk about Foods I'll talk about what's you know what's concentrated so it's like really concentrated in monounsaturated fat mmm so

as like if you say you know butter or cheese and it's concentrated in saturated fat right right but typically you'll find mono/poly and saturated fat in all different forms of fat just very varying amounts right and to some degree it's like Bulls at even really significant it's such a small amount I don't know now how what how much of the salmon Roe where you consuming it really depends like I started to really start to ramp up my consumption in like the third trimester when brain development was like really gearing crazy you thinking about this like as a scientist yeah so every day I was putting a big old tablespoon full on top of my avocado really third trimester was like I was like almost every day trying to consume it wow but it was hard for me the first trimester I was try started to try a little bit and it made me a little nauseous like I did your kid can read minds what it's like it comes out and he's like super brain you know everyone probably is super biased about their own children yeah I'm like he's got great verbal skills

well uh super smart you're super smart like this and you're eating all these fish eggs kids kids set oh thank you very interesting it can we not talk to him yeah well that's gonna be four sit right there what's funny is he was like early on when he was like six weeks old he was he went through a really short stage of he was making sounds that sounded like hello and so my mom would come over and she would in his face should go hello hello and he would and we have a video of it like I could send it to you I'll send it to you here we go oh no and it like literally seems like he's saying it but clearly he's not I mean he's six weeks old you know but he was able to like sort of mimic the sound because I think it was easier for him since he was already sort of making those sounds so of course Dan and right and Dan and I were all super pumped were like he's going to be a genius we're sending the video to all the family members you should really listen to what we say see that's hilarious course you know he's not really saying hello but

it's making noises is making noises it sound like it and it's just totally coincidental but this is the difference between like a kid making a noise in the kid knowing what that noise means like when they're actually talking yeah like my young mom my seven-year-old what the seven-year-old she didn't really start talking in full sentence until she was like a year and a half but my my nine-year-old like when she was like 9 10 months old she was talking was weird it's like she's really smart like she was talking like right away like and she was stood up quicker to she she was standing at like 9 months old which I found pretty shot yeah well like an unassisted standing you're like that's when she wanted to stand wow nine months old she was like getting her stand on and trying to take some steps and I was like this is crazy like she's just she's like that's how she is like as a little person to she's a little go-getter uh-huh I often wonder all you know the the earlier the firstborns and the ones that are born earlier like they get more attention

Shinto because it's novel you're a first-time parent and then as more children come you know it's like yeah you're spread a little more thin and you know I mean it's not necessarily the case but it's certainly something I've often wondered you know if if we if I want to have another child will I be able to do it you know it's because I really just wanted there's so much work that goes into yeah I'm not just you know the nutrition part and I was talking about you asked me about you know things during pregnancy and something I think people don't realize is that you know epigenetics which is basically the transference of it's it's heritable like you can transfer things that happen to you in your lifestyle without actually altering the sequence of DNA and you can do that by changing how much Gene is activated or not activated and there's been studies lots and lots of studies in animals showing this to be the case of course that's animals and how much of that actually translates to humans but there was a really

interesting study a couple of years ago I think it was like 2015 that was published that looked at the effect of obesity and obesity was actually looked at not in the mothers but the fathers and so sperm DNA was collected from for males that were obese and males that were lean and that there's a variety of different genes like hundreds of different genes that were looked at and about 300 different genes were different in how they were activated or not activated in the sperm DNA of the obese men and a lot of those genes had to do with cognition learning memory and Metabolism so that's very interesting but was super interesting was that these men they were morbidly obese are very obese they underwent bariatric surgery and their sperm DNA was then collected you know a couple of months after and then like close to a year after and as time went on their sperm DNA looked like the lean people so that so basically losing the weight just

losing the weight had an effect on these genes that are involved in cognition and Metabolism like I said you know lots of of animal Studies have shown obesity has a negative effect on like you know causing type 1 diabetes later in life and different you know cognitive disabilities and things like that so you know it is something like people that are wanting to conceive might consider you know their you know their health before trying to procreate you know it's I'm not saying that you know you shouldn't procreate if you're not you know healthy but it's just something you know another thing to think about and and also I think it's a motivating factor for people because sometimes you don't care as much about yourself I mean some people don't they're just kind of like but their child or their unborn child that's probably you know a driver for for people to make a change like that like us would certainly hope it would be I mean you have this opportunity to really literally change the way your child develops and just by your discipline right just by whether or not you're

care of your own body you can literally change the future of your child so because you're saying that these genes that are in this obese man sperm the way they're represented that's going to be passed on to the kid yeah versus the lien version of him Pat those genes we passed on the kid the kid literally will have a different starting point exactly the different crazy it's totally crazy yeah I mean of course the child itself can change things through epigenetics through their diet lifestyle but you're giving them a baseline here right I mean so it's definitely a very it's a growing field a lot of the research is done in animals because it's really difficult to do that sort of these sorts of experiments in humans but I think that this is sort of a proof of principle at the very least looking at the the sperm DNA you know so it's something to consider and I've had like like friends of friends that have you know that are that are overweight or obese and wanting to like

children and so it's like I try to talk to him about that in a way that's not like condescending yeah you know some people some people do have a hard time they try to lose weight and you know this they have to find the right combination of things that works for them but but I do think that people would get more motivated if they're like wow I can you know affect my future child's risk for type 1 diabetes or for you know like how well what their IQ is how well they're performing on learning and memory test so and also avoid the horrific guilt that you would feel if you didn't do that and you started to see these things manifesting in your child you realize oh my God I set this kid up in a shitty way because I'm lazy which is essentially what a lot of the problem is with people it's just there they don't have whatever the mental you know people get angry if you say they're lazy because they don't die it forget that word forget to take away the word lazy your unmotivated let's say that but for whatever reason if you choose not to take care of your health and you

that transfer into your child's and you know that you're unhappy with your existence you know you're unhappy with your physical body and you refuse to do or for whatever reason don't do enough and then you see these same problems manifesting in your own baby and you realize like oh my God I started this kid off in a shitty way like you're going to be riddled with guilt totally I mean the thing is most people don't know about epigenetics and they don't know that they're that they're able to do that so the more the more people are educated I think the better the outcome will be but like you said the people that do know and then still do it it's like Yeah The Guilt I mean that's like unbelievable well it's like people who smoke when they have a kid you know that's that's so insane you see people that are pregnant smoking I was in forget what state it was in but we were outside this convenience store and there was a lady who was clearly pregnant and she clearly was smoking cigarettes and I was like fuck man that's just it was Canada it was like this hurts my feelings just watching that just hurts my feelings doesn't it just make you sick yeah that's like

you know and there's all sorts of you know studies that have shown you know of course smoking during pregnancy causes are not caused by been associated with like ADHD and what's it called like like the movement just like a like a dyskinesia thing you know all sorts of problems so yeah it certainly like I having the knowledge you know and continuing to read throughout pregnancy then once you know having the baby like one thing that I knew that I really really wanted to do was I wanted to breastfeed like that was you know like they're the benefits of breastfeeding are just amazing and this is something that like my like my stepmother for example her generation also my my grandmother they didn't know about this like so they weren't recommended to breastfeed you know back in like the 50s like it just wasn't you know the benefits weren't known but now we know like breastfeeding it's kind of amazing there are some

there's something in breast milk called human milk although ago saccharides have you heard of these HML there's like 200 different of August human milk oligosaccharides in breast milk in fact it's like the third most common factor in breast milk behind lactose and fat 200 different ones and they cannot be digested At All by like the infant's digestive system it's like they've co-evolved specifically to feed the microbiome in the gut of these infants and their and they're specifically increasing the species of bacteria bifidobacterium infantis is one really really important one but it's amazing that they're it's really that's the only purpose that they serve is to feed and you know basically populate the infant gut with this beneficial bacteria and you know this bacteria is been shown to one set up the immune system because they digest these oligosaccharides and they produce other molecules called short-chain fatty acids those short chain fatty acids like

eight butyrate acetate things that you've heard of those act as what are called signaling molecules to basically determine what kind of immune cells you're going to make so a big one that they do is they make t regulatory cells which are kind of immune cells that prevents autoimmunity autoimmune responses so like children that are not that that are not breastfed they lack like four different species of of gut bacteria and they have like a three three fold increased risk of allergies and you know auto immune related diseases so it's like it's doing that and also it's like preventing pathogenic bacteria from from like taking residents there because these human milk oligosaccharides not only are they feeding the beneficial bacteria will recently it's been found that they like breakdown biofilms that bacteria create to like you know basically Escape antimicrobial activity so there's a lot of antimicrobial things in breast milk like lauric acid which is also found in coconut

well but that the human milk oligosaccharides basically break down the biofilms that the lauric acid can work better so it's like you know and their stem cells their stem cells in breast milk mammary stem cells well that blew my mind

I think like spent like 10 years since the discovery of that but like it's been so it's that they the studies have been mostly done in mice but they have measured humans you know have the same memory type of stem cells in their breast milk but in animals in preclinical studies it's been shown that those those breasts stem cells they get digested they go into the bloodstream and then I go to various organs they go to the kidney the liver the brain and they start to like in the pancreas they start to make like insulin producing cells like it's crazy wow so that's amazing that's only 10 years ago they didn't know those yeah I know it's all happening so fast when it comes to the right knowledge of nutrition and the effect on the body and especially developing children well the breast milk thing is really what's interesting because once I like you know I had my son and you immediately you know start breastfeeding like I had no idea it was going to be so difficult like I thought it was just and maybe it's not difficult for everyone but I think it's difficult for a lot of women and a lot of women give up after like the first two weeks

they give up because you know it's just for you know various reasons it's she can be extremely frustrated your new parent you're getting no sleep and you know so like I my son had a little bit of a tongue tie we're like the little thing on underneath his tongue kind of prevented a tongue from moving like as much as it's supposed to so like he when he opened his mouth and he'd latch on there was a little bit of problem so the first two weeks were really hard for me but that sort of resolve but I really had to try like my like Dan and I were we're taking I was pumping some milk and we are putting it in a syringe with little tube and like putting them on the breasts you know because I didn't want to introduce the bottle so early so I mean and that was hard I mean I was getting no sleep I could totally see if you didn't know all the benefits of breastfeeding that I could I could see how new mothers would would you know give up because it's extremely difficult so that's

you know that I completely understand I understand now like I think previously I was like how can anyone not breastfeed you know it's so but it really it's not easy for everyone there's all sorts of problems that women have but there are actually breast milk banks that likes women can donate their breast milk and people you know can can buy the breast milk instead of getting formula of course there's all sorts of other problems like well they getting enough vitamin D and Omega 3 and what else are they taking you know so there's so many different things that happen once you have children breast milk being a breastfeeding I'm sure being one of them but the lack of sleep thing so I think most people just really don't have any idea like what what is happening and then they also don't understand how difficult it is to watch a child and right now it's difficult wait till the kid starts walking they start walking around you have to follow them around you literally like walking around with them everywhere they go I got don't put that in your mouth don't touch that lick that you'll get electrocuted to pull down

like everywhere you go it's it's such a I don't want to say a project it's it's just way more difficult and consuming than and also your protective instincts are ramped up so high like my friend Eddie had cats and rabbits he's talking about how much he loves is rabbits and he's like and I like dude just wait until you have your kid you're going to want to kill those fucking rabbit he's like no way man I love the cats I love the rabbits that as soon as you have the kitty like fuck you're right that's annoying cause my cat wakes up my kid I want to kill this fucking cat it's true your protective mechanisms I know is you changes you so much and you know people that don't have children who complain about kids that are crying I used to used to bother me if I was on a plane and babies were crying you know I used to be like ozbaby won't shut up but now I'm like put a little baby like I literally it doesn't bother me

like like someone could be a break right next to me with a crying baby and I feel bad for the baby it doesn't bother me like Damn is baby won't shut up it's like a different feeling totally I I've started to experience that to some degree in various ways as well where it's like you just the poor baby you become a different person yeah you do you really didn't it's amazing yeah it's the best thing ever well I mean it creates so much empathy I mean it just changed my whole perspective of what a person is different my idea of a person used to be a static form like Jamie's 35 what do you 3534 like I would say God that's 34 year-old Jamie that's who he is I never thought oh Jamie was a baby like Jamie's to be a four-year-old like Jamie went to preschool Jamie went to kindergarten I never thought about it that way I better go there's Jamie hey what's up Jamie Jamie's always been Che me you know that's like how I used to look at people now I look at everybody as a baby like oh that's a baby that became a grown man like that's how I look at everyone now it's so

weird it's like a paradigm shift happened in my brain that is that's that's definitely weird it made me way more compassionate way nicer to people just way I just I think I don't want anybody's life to fall apart anymore I used to like like I hope that guy gets hit by a truck you know now I'm like man I hope that little baby figures out why he's such an asshole I would be interesting to kind of see the brain activation Pathways that change like you know if you're talking about being more compassionate that's almost like I mean there's a certain type of meditation that's like the compassion meditation that people do to change is like certain parts of the brain be kind of interesting to see might like Dan thinks that I've gotten more creative you know cuz I make up all these like Mommy games and mommy songs just like I never was really a super super creative person I'm more analytical you know I've got I definitely have some creativity but like he's kind of like a wonder if just like becoming a mommy like you just all of a sudden my creative you know I don't know I'm sure that's a big

just stuff going on in your brain just gets activated like I do stuff with my seven-year-old sometimes and half the time we're doing stuff I'm like I can't even believe you're real like I'm having these little conversations with her we're playing little games and you know like we play is really stupid game it's so dumb with some you spin this thing and it's like it corresponds to different color acorns and you know and when she wins and she jumps up just like oh I beat you and she's like doing her little dance and she's like throwing her arms in the air and I'm like this is like half of me is laughing because she's funny but half of me is going this is so strange that you're a little person I'm talking to right like you you were a baby and now you're this little seven-year-old playing this game with me it's like it's so odd like I feel that way with my four-month-old I see a little personality things already kind of creeping up and it's like it's amazing yeah so I can only imagine like as he continues to develop makes why it's very I think it's very difficult for people that don't have children

to sort of develop that same level of compassion it sounds like a cop-out it sounds like it sounds weird but I really do I think there's something is actually something to be gained and as far as like everyone reproducing well obviously we have too many people so that's not I don't know if that's the best thing and I certainly think that you could be a fully-formed healthy wonderful person who contributes an amazing thing to the world if you don't have children I don't think you have to have children but I think for me it was it was very much there was a there was a giant learning experience along with there's a giant evolving experience along with just being a parent is this something happened to me yeah it's absolutely life-changing yeah it's I had no idea like I've always heard people say the best thing that happened to me and it truly is I mean it truly is the best thing and so you know I'm I just I'm excited to continue to see how it changes me and it's just unfortunately corresponds with a lot of financial

dress for a lot of people time stress Financial stress lack of sleep and sometimes they just don't appreciate it you know it's just you're so overwhelmed by the burden of just trying to get by that sometimes you can't appreciate this amazing moment that happened in front of you and it's you know it's hard it's hard to it's hard to have a good perspective and it's hard it's hard to like be able to see things from above to sort of rise above and look at the big picture of this thing totally and that's for me something that really helps me that his exercise sure and and I think that also you know I didn't have any postpartum depression at least I think I didn't I mean I felt in causes that I think there's a variety of factors I mean so for one you know your during pregnancy your estrogen levels like they like they go through the roof I mean it's like like a hundred fold higher and hundredfold something like that like it's really high compared to your Baseline and don't quote me I mean

I think something something like that like a just orders and Orders of magnitude higher and estrogen and has been shown to increase the expression of a gene called tryptophan hydroxylase to in the brain that produces serotonin from tryptophan so you're constantly making serotonin constantly constantly constantly and then you know after you have the baby that goes away so it's kind of like a withdrawal so that's sort of one biochemical explanation but there are many others one I think their circadian rhythm is off you're not for you're not getting enough light because you're like nesting like you like I don't think we left I mean I don't remember go outside for like two weeks maybe yeah it was like you know especially with the difficult breastfeeding it part so it was like you're constantly inside you're not getting the bright light exposure your sleep is completely disrupted so your circadian rhythm which is you know extremely extremely important for for mood for the way you feel

that is completely disrupted because you're waking up you know multiple times a night and that's completely gone and and it's stressful it's like completely new experience you have this like very fragile baby you know that you're responsible for and so I think that combination of all these things really can can play a role in that and for me I really tried to make sure I was getting exercise as soon as I could you know so that is something because exercise for a variety of reasons one it's been shown to increase the production of Serotonin by getting transport of tryptophan into the brain so branched-chain amino acids which are found in a variety of proteins they can out-compete tryptophan to get into the brain and so if you're not exercising you're constantly getting the branched-chain amino acids in the brain which are serving other important roles but you're not getting that tryptophan so you're not getting the precursor to make serotonin and so the

is alleviates that competition Branch chain amino acids get taken up into your muscle where they're you know they're used to help build muscle which is good and The Troop Train gets into the brain so you're making serotonin that's 1/2 you're making endorphins beta endorphins help so that that's another thing and then the you're increasing the production of new neurons through serotonin also through brain-derived neurotrophic factor that also has been shown to help alleviate depression and prevent depression the actual neurogenesis the thing that helps you Stave off brain aging which by the way there's been like there was like 14 clinical trials that have been analyzed looking at humans that that undergo like aerobic exercise and how they have like their left part of their hippocampus doesn't like a trophy like people who do not exercise you know so that's like because the neurogenesis but that that's another reason you know because you can visually see it atrophy the you some sort of an MRI yeah have you ever looked if you

Google like Alzheimer's disease brain like there's there's images all over the place where they show like before and after and there's just like big holes in the brain I mean it's just like well I think because someone was comparing it to a football player what's the job the guys name you fell off the car the guy was Henry Chris Henry Chris Henry he was I think he was only 28 right he was a young man who was an NFL football player no one had any idea he had CTE this is like earlier understandably this is like seven years ago somewhere around there much less understanding about the effects of CTE and he had some sort of an altercation with his girlfriend chased after her she was she jumped in a car and he didn't want her to leave so he jumped on top of the truck to try to hang on and fell off the truck and killed himself yeah so they do an autopsy on them and they find out that he has a brain of a seven year old man with Alzheimer's whoa he's

ate some 26-28 whatever he was he was young under 30 and super athlete just and they were stunned and they looked at his brain they like the well this is this is this doesn't even make sense and now they're finding that this is the case with so many football players just you when you went to see the UFC when you and Dad want to see the UFC and I talk to you afterwards we all went to dinner afterwards and your eyes were as big as dinner plates and you were like this is so bad so many bad things are happening and then you started going into detail about the various things that were happening was so fascinating to watch you a scientist watch people get head kicked and punched in the face and watch watch MMA take place yeah I mean it's it's kind of crazy to think about how people will like as a profession go and get like they're getting TB I like constantly getting their head bashed in and you know there there are there

definitely like if you look at the non you know fighting form so it's like martial arts where they're like it seems a lot more beautiful like cool like moves and stuff you know but like like the actual like getting your head bashed in stuff like that's crazy it's so crazy you know and I understand money is a big driving Factor because they probably make a lot of money but you know what what what's it worth when you're not able to enjoy it when you're older and you just lose your praying you know not just money it's the excitement of it the way I describe it is it's high level problem solving with dire physical consequences high-level problem-solving yeah that's what fighting is like you have a skill set I have a skill set like we're playing a game and the game is I want to try to hit you with my bones and you're trying to hit me with your bones and we're trying to figure out who's better at it and I know that you know what I know you like if you get to a certain level like say what I that's one of the things that I love about Jiu-Jitsu is it Jiu-Jitsu sort of solves this

but it does so without hitting each other Jiu-Jitsu is all grappling in there's obviously a lot of injuries that comes from Jiu-Jitsu I think that's what I meant when I when I was young thing something that looks kind of cool yeah like the world Jiu-Jitsu championships just happened this past weekend I was watching some of the videos online and you watch these really high level guys going after it and it's amazing is beautiful there are two attacking a counter attacking and you just hand me my mind I'm thinking of the countless hours of dedication and focus its required to reach this level of proficiency where they're just they know what to do and when to do it trying to counter and they know and they're both black belts at a very high level so it's like you're you're you're examining this game and it doesn't have the same feeling when someone loses that an MMA fight has like a watch the UFC this past weekend there's some brutal Knockouts when you watch someone get kayode and you see their their brain shut off their legs stiffen up and they go flat yes I saw I saw someone get knocked out

I forgot who it was but it was like one of the last like most exciting fights and it was like he it was it was crazy yeah for sure and and I think I we talked about this you know last time you know couple years ago but the apoe4 gene I think really is something that would at least give some insight because I mean it's known that people that have at least one allele of those Jeff that Gene they can you know have really really bad consequence if they get TB I mean we're talking ten to twenty fold more risk for CTE for other you know how 20-fold more if they have yeah if they have two copies of it so they're like homozygous which is a lot less common one copy is more common that would be you know anywhere like a like a two to five fold but when you have two copies it can be it can be up ten to twenty fold higher so that's something that's like you know with with the with the MMA or the UFC kind of fighting I mean

football or boxing or you know fill in the blank sports that you know is very has a high risk for TBI like I think that's something that athletes should consider and you probably would find ones that would say hey maybe I shouldn't do this you know especially in Asia with football players now quite a few football players her wear this or actually backing out of the NFL at a very young age they have headaches so there was a guy recently was 24 years old just retired he's like I'm done yeah you know and he has a bright future apparently well let's look we got sidetracked so you were talking about exercise and the what put the hippocampus oh yeah yeah so the the benefits of exercise on the brain which I know that I constantly talk about this to you because it's but it's just so you know it's so damn important so important how important that is and it is it's one of those things that like it helps me with everything with you know and and the Brain aging is like it's like

it's the long-term effect so it helps me with the short term which is like handling life and handling stress you were talking about how people have a hard time you know seeing things from a higher level and and it's so true you know because life is hard you know you have to like make it you have to survive and if you don't have a starting place that starting if your Baseline is is kind of like you don't have a lot to start with and it's you have to work all you know all the more work you have to put in so I think that you know getting distracted with trying to make money trying to like survive and try to let you know try to like live a good life and get married okay isn't all this it can be really stressful so you know I have of course my own stress is but I think that the exercise is the short the short term effects I get from that you know are helping with Clarity helping me with being able to kind of take a take a step back and not be so anxious and there's there's controlled trials showing this as well with with exercise you know I

the longest time have been a runner and running is like for me you know I love the the frame of mind I'm in when I'm running like it's kind of like this reflective daydreaming which some people in some studies say well Jay dreaming is not good because you're ruminating when you're daydreaming but I think the day dreaming that you do when you're like running is a lot different from like if you were I you and I were having this conversation right now but I wasn't present oh right right so that's called rumination and that that's like that's a stressful kind of game you know yeah well you're not present because you're like worried about this other thing you have to do right but the the daydreaming effect when I'm running is a little bit more of a reflective like it's a good it's like a cleansing for me yeah that's all same way when you run yeah yeah I saw that you've recently gotten into that which yeah over the past year that the literally last January I started because a friend of mine had a run-in in Vegas 05 K I jumped in it with zero running at all it was like God this is fucking hard

I was like I'm in shape I'll just go run but I never am literally never now I run every week and it was hard for you right because you're right hard but what's interesting is my cardio for everything else has gone through the roof it's wet because I'm running like brutal Trails like really steep Mountain Trails and I'm doing the most ideas for Miles the least I do is one mile sometimes I do too but it's it's essentially Hill Sprints okay so you're doing soon you're getting some high intensity and their your Sprint it's very high intensity and it's all it's all like really extensive cardio it's like it's heavy duty stuff right I run it with my dog now to dude that's awesome so what's interesting is for me after pregnancy like I couldn't wait to go out running and so I think it was four weeks and after four weeks four weeks postpartum I went out for a run or sorry Instagram post yeah okay so whenever run I was super extreme let's play the only post I did because what I found out I was I was running is I didn't feel so great like I felt like my bladder felt fool even though it wasn't like and so I would stop

finger bathroom like on my run and then I was like okay and run again it still felt full and I was like this is not normal like this you know so so I went to my OBGYN talk to him and apparently your pelvic floor like changes after having a baby in the can like you know fall down and kind of hit your bladder a little and so it feels some women actually like pee and urinate when they're running like I never had it like that well he looked at my pelvic floor was like on a scale from 0 to 10 zero being the best your one and I'm like really because I feel like a seven you know and so he was like well you probably shouldn't have started running so soon so don't do that why don't you start doing some low impact exercise and start doing these like strength like strengthening your pelvic floor with like kegels and like some core strings which I've been doing so I was like crap what am I going to do like running I would just walk out the door and go you know run and that was like my Escape so I started doing this the

class high intensity interval cycling class which is it's an hour long and it's a spin class but it's not like the dance he's been so it's a spin class where you do Hills and Sprints and it's an hour long but you're mixing it with just a robic and so your you'll you get these Sprint's and these Hills and I really really really like it for multiple reasons you know one is the group setting where I feel like the people around me and like they're still going at it you know so it's like motivating so I keep going to or something about that group that really like I push if I were just me on that bike for an hour there's no way I would be pushing it like I do like I am pushing it it's like amazing pushing it yeah I feel that way about yoga class same thing yeah I think you're the grossest everyone sort of feeding off each other right right and then also having the instructor like there's a couple instructors that I really really like and you know because they like their style and their kind of more like coaches than the kind of instructor that kind of makes you want to feel there's instructions

that's like they their cheerleader kind of want to make you feel good and then there's the instructor where they're like a coach or they're like the trying to help you get better so high content is high density high intensity interval training and I've never really been into it that much like I was you know I would do some like jump squats and things like that like at home but this is the first time I'm like really it's structured environment and really doing it so I started reading about it like wanting to know because that's how I am if I do something I'm like well I'm going to look into it and either it'll motivate me to like really keep it up and do it more or I'll be like now this isn't good you know so I started reading more and more about it and it's amazing the benefits of the high intensity so you were talking about how how like your your I think what you were describing was your aerobic capacity changed change for the big one is kickboxing like the winter when I hit the bag used to be that I would I would struggle to do a three minute round of high-intensity like hitting the bag kickboxing but now I can

get through it the Bell goes off and I'm like really okay like the Bell just went off all right that's three minutes and then I'll have the 30 second Rest by the time I'm 30 second rest is up I'm fully recovered and I'm back in again I just it's I mean like I have more than double the endurance I used to have so there what you're experiencing has been studied in clinical studies basically this aerobic capacity also people call it VO2 max which is basically the ability of your lungs and your blood and your heart to carry oxygen to your muscles or places that are you know during that intense push so the capacity to do that right well as we age over the age of 25 once we hit 25 and we continue on our aerobic capacity decreases by 10% per decade so like 1% per year right so you're basically you know 25 or 35 your your VO2 max your is like 10% less than you were when you were 25 well it turns out doing these high intensity interval classes during 24 of them

in this study it was like they were 40 minutes long and there was for form and it pushes and then there's you know recoveries in between and all that blah blah blah stuff they were able to improve and after eight weeks of doing 20 for high-intensity classes improve their VO2 max by like 12 percent so you're basically adding a decade you know back see how many weeks well they did it they did twenty four classes of this in eight weeks wow so with this interesting thing about that study was they were also testing whether or not like like doing it I think was like four weeks or something really like short just packing them all in that actually didn't increase the vo2max as much because the recovery time was actually important it's actually changed the way I think about when it comes to training in my advice that I give to people for training because I used to think that it was adequate to just do the sport specific workouts like say if you want to get better at Jujitsu just do Jujitsu if you want to get better kickboxing just do your kick boxing the cardio you get from that will be enough I don't think that's the case anymore because I'm stuck

how much of an increase in cardiovascular in from these Hill Sprints and now I realize like okay what you can do is you can do it independently of that work and it doesn't really mess with that work like say if I run in the morning and I get a good two-mile run I can still hit the bag at 3:00 in the afternoon but the difference will be is I like my legs will be tired from running but they're not the same muscles that I use when I kick box but what's it's similar in a lot of ways but with what's really changing for sure is that my aerobic capacity yeah it's just way bigger that's awesome just different that's actually a marker of Aging aerobic capacity don't you Max I've never actually measured my own vo2max probably have to put that hose down kind of treadmill want to do it because now that I'm doing all this high intensity work and I'm totally going to stick with it like I love it I definitely want to get back to the running and I've been sort of worried about I can only do so much as a new mom and working

I got a trip would you be interested in a treadmill or know you know I love running outside like in nature whether it's in the beach or like in the Hills Rolling Hills and stuff but you know for the longest time I lived in Tennessee and the weather's there is not great and so I did you treadmill running and so yeah I mean I've definitely I don't I don't have the the Same Day Dreaming like effect yeah I agree yeah that I but I do definitely I mean it's definitely good and I get a lot from it from a treadmill but there's something about in fact there was some interesting study that I don't know how long ago maybe a year ago or two that looked at people that exercise I think they went for like walks or something in nature versus like in the metropolitan area and the benefits there was there was more benefits in going for the walks and nature in terms of like you know psychological benefits but also some of the variety of like biomarkers that were measured so

kind of interesting you know it is interesting when I think we like to think of ourselves as being detached from what we experienced just in terms of even just visually but I think that those things have an effect on like not just how you think like how you feel but who you are I mean I think we are we have some sort of a symbiotic relationship with our environment and when your environment is cement and glass and concrete and rubber and all the things that we've created in cities that there's a dull feeling that you get from those things and then when you can go and see a Green Meadow and birds flying around and and though the wind whistling through the leaves like you you just it does something to your body like does something not just your mind there's something going on like you you're you have like this feeling that I've ah this is medicine like this is I'm getting something out of this yeah absolutely I think that there's you know the noise pollution the sound you know like the this cars and all that that's

shown to have a negative effect on people's like emotions and of course there's the environmental things you're breathing in pollution and that has been shown to increase inflammatory biomarkers and all that but there's certainly I think the just going out into nature and you you feel better you do you definitely you definitely feel better it's not you know not every I live in the city and I live off of a busy place and thankfully were going to be moving but that's something I'm considering where it's just like you moving specifically for that reason now we're just in a small apartment right now and it's like I have a baby now and it's fine to people yeah it was fun it was close to the beach and yeah you know it was it's fun like but just it's not something that you know I could do with a baby especially in such a small space and yeah there's motorcycles that go by and it's like it's crazy like the motorcycles rev up yeah yeah girls are riding by exactly the writing by it's like

that's a bummer it's yeah yeah up to now so also like a yard is good for a kid right exactly but it's hard it's hard in California you know I mean like we were saying you know it's not easy so there's things you there's just all this stuff you have to consider when you're your priorities change know now that you when you have a child it's like you got to think of all the things schools and this and that neighbors and who were they going to be friends with and yeah like oh my God before I forget I want to take tell people go to Chris crossers Instagram or is excuse me his Twitter page and there's an article on acetaminophen and women who are pregnant consuming acetaminophen and the negative consequences it has four children see more evidence it says here that the exposure to acetaminophen may be a part of ADHD puzzle a Norwegian study pregnant women took acetaminophen for 29 days or more had a more than two fold risk of having children with ADHD yeah wow

I think I've seen I think I even tweeted something like this like a couple of years ago where this isn't the first study yeah we're in New York Times right now apparently and that's what people are prescribed right during pregnancy right scary shit there's means it's how many things we find out from like the 1960s were terribly detrimental to children and doctors were telling you this is way the way you should go mean there's some right yeah and and that's the you know with them when I was pregnant there was there was certainly some things that I opted out of that were probably more standard of care you know so just because of concern and and not that I knew for a fact that something was going to happen but I had doubt and that was enough for me to sort of way you know the the benefits and the risks and I was like well you know so well there's even talk about vaccination protocols like not whether or not I mean I'm not an anti vaccination person I think vaccinations are important but I think

that there's there's a lot of Merit in the idea of that you shoot a kid up with 36 different shots when they're six weeks old or whatever whatever age they start them at mean right out of the box they give a lot of doctors want to give your kid a series of shots and that there's some there's some concern that the actual consequences of all these different vaccines being put into your child's body very early and a large number of them have some sort of negative consequences it you know I'm with you like I'm also not an antibiotic so I think vaccines are important I'm going to vaccinate my son but I've already given I'm a little behind on the schedule I've given him one but so what you're saying is true there is like even on the CDC website it says that you know some of these vaccines can cause fevers and epileptic seizures seizures seizures in an infant and but that there's no long-term consequence of that and and

it's kind of like you know if you look if you look at the literature and and how the immune immune system response to some of these vaccines especially if you're giving like five at once I mean the the first round of vaccines that I'm supposed to do it was like it was like five different vaccines and so what I'm opting to do is actually do them in singles where you so the reason did yeah yeah because it's like why the immune response is you know kind of the thing that's scary and you don't really know how a child's immune system is going to react and there are studies I was particularly worried about it during pregnancy and that's when one of the things I opted out of was getting the Tdap vaccine which is they want to give it to you when your I forgot how many weeks pregnant 30-something I think and to protect basically pass on antibodies for whooping cough you know to the to the baby and so I opted out and I said I would do it post basically postpartum like one day postpartum

it takes about four weeks to transfer the antibodies in breast milk so I still was going to you know get the vaccine but I was going to do it after I had and the and the reason I made that decision is because there have been multiple studies now in non-human primates that have looked at the studies came out of UC Davis looked at pregnant female monkeys when they're when they have a really strong immune response so like a strong infection or you know who knows a vaccine the study didn't use vaccines but I'm sort of you know drawing a parallel here whereas just the immune response having a very strong immune response there was an autoimmune response the end up having antibodies that attacked the the developing brain and the monkeys that were born from those mothers were had autistic behaviors been shown in humans that mothers of autistic children are five times more likely to have antibodies floating around in their blood against fetal brain proteins like they're not supposed to have antibodies and against fetal brain proteins in their blood so there's definitely been some link with

the immune system autoimmunity particularly during pregnancy and an Autism risk now in terms of like the the young baby you know I'm I'm scared too and I do I do worry that you know my son's developing so great and like I don't want to do something wrong it's scary it really is and you know I definitely like I said I'm going to vaccinate my son and I have been doing singles and the you have to like it's a little more inconvenient because you have to go to the doctor like so many times to do it but the thing is is that when you don't when you're not giving so many different vaccines at once the immune response isn't going to be as strong and there's a problem with this conversation and one of the problems in this conversation is as soon as you talk about vaccines you immediately get lumped into a bunch of fucking crazy people that think that vaccines are some sort of a conspiracy in the government trying to make money from you and your an anti-vaxxer and they immediately box you in and start getting angry are you it's almost it's

weird thing because you're talking about chemicals that you're injecting into a child right yeah but still people are very hesitant to to even look at that they're very they'll you want to automatically just go with whatever the doctor says when it comes to vaccines until but the real problem is until you look at like how much work has been done determining what the consequences are and how can you find out how can you even know no right you really can't unless you have two of the exact we have a bunch of copies you make a bunch of clones of a baby and you you expose them to the exact same environment exact exact same epigenetics exact same environmental factors and then one of you inject a bunch of chemicals into and one you don't mean we know that vaccines are amazing they have prevented polio they have prevented a host of different diseases from becoming real issues and we know that people who don't vaccinate their kids they're the reason why measles are coming back their minds is real concerns

I think vaccines are amazing I'm so happy they exist but I also think that we have to be very careful with just jumping into things just like we were talking before about things that they did as standard care during the 1960's or now prohibited like we know they're dangerous for you yeah yeah I mean I completely 100% agree and I think that there there are now it's a growing field at least in science where there are there are scientists that are trying to understand the gene interaction the gene interaction with the immune system because it you know obviously almost everyone gets vaccinated right I mean and you don't have everyone walking around with all these with autism and all these but they're there is something that is you know going on and you know a lot of parents have noticed changes of course after the vaccinations and so there there is a new field of inquiry I do know that's ongoing we're scientists are beginning to now look at in addition to how the immune system is reacting

these vaccines how specific genes you know regulating certain immune functions may differences in those genes called polymorphisms may you know predispose a child now how are you going to know that like without doing a DNA test before you do the vaccine I mean it's a risk like you said how do you know it's it definitely is a risk and that's that's what's the scary thing you know and it's like you know it's a it's a dilemma that I've been facing and and you know I'm just currently the reason I even delayed I've only you know given my son to vaccine so far but just because I'm trying to like exhaustively read the literature as much as I can well good for you I'm glad I'm glad that you're looking at it this way because it's something that there's a lot of pressure on people to not look at it that way this is it like this just having this conversation Joe Rogan and Rhonda Patrick are anti-vaxxers that could be that that could be the title of some bullshit article that someone writes about this I mean I've seen it time and time again where someone will write

clickbait title do an article and then someone will just read that and go oh you're at anti-vaxxer of course you are you loser and they'll get angry at you and throw some Twitter message your way that it's not representative of your actual thoughts on this at all this is a very complex very nuanced issue it is and I'd and like like I said I do think people should vaccinate their children I do is when I'm that much of it unhappen all backside I agree it's a nuanced situate topic that we you know we don't we don't know the answer to I mean I think that this guy what was his name the thimerosal guy the doctor that got disbarred because he liked falsified some data on tomorrow's all the Mercury and causing autism yeah he like falsified some data or something what was the story behind that I don't know if I'd data that was published that that linked thimerosal which is the adjuvant that was that's found in a lot of vaccines in California they

is that as far as I know as far as like it's not used anymore was that the middle measles mumps rubella MMR yeah and so what did he do like what was I don't you know it's not like I haven't done super super in-depth like analysis of what he did to my understanding was that he also hold it up here Journal retracts 1998 paper linking autism to vaccines a prominent British medical journal of Tuesday retracted in 1998 research paper that set off a sharp decline of vaccinations in Britain after the papers lead authors suggested that vaccines could cause autism the retraction blah blah reassessment there's lasted four years in the scientific methods and financial conflicts dr. Andrew Wakefield who contended that his research show that the combined measles mumps and rubella rubella how do you say it Rebellion rubella vaccine may be unsafe but the retraction may do little to tarnish dr. Wakefield reputation among

orange groups in the United States despite a wealth of scientific studies that have failed to find any link between vaccines and autism 's the parents fervently I love that word believe that their children's medical problems resulted from vaccines I know a lot of people that think they're kids medical issues came from vaccines I know some of you yeah and I'm not one to tell them they're wrong I don't know who's right or who's wrong but I know there's a massive amount of money to discourage any sort of talk and thinking that no one wants you to think there's anything wrong with vaccines of vaccines Can Do no harm but you know millions of dollars been given out by the vaccine courts it's not like there's there's a vaccine courts that that take care of cases where people have been damaged by vaccines it's not there's no we were talking about this before the podcast start that we're going to discuss the there's people very biologically so much that one person can eat at my friend Brian his

his mom if she eats a Brazil nut she will die I could eat a whole bowl of those boring fucking nuts and they don't do anything to me I think they're boring but increase your selenium but oh that's nice it's good to have but I mean they don't do anything negative to me but his mom will eat them and she dies now that you can I believe that you can extrapolate that and you can look at all sorts of different things you take into your body there are some people that are allergic to a host of different things that don't do a damn thing to me and there's going to people be people that are going to have reactions to vaccines it's just it's a chemical there's going to be something that happens in your body so the idea that there's no link whatsoever to a chemical causing an adverse reaction that doesn't jive it doesn't make sense to say that it's impossible you could say it's extremely rare that makes more sense right but when they say there's no link when you say no link I have to go what's motivating this what's motivating you to say no link because with when you're dealing with chemicals

is always going to be a small percentage of a chance that your body has an adverse reaction those chemicals and it's not just chemicals I mean this is these are these are you know live bacteria bacteria and you're listening and immune response and immune response is very as well yeah you know dramatically I mean some people have autoimmune diseases because their immune system gets so wrapped up I mean you know some people have you know type 1 diabetes because their immune systems destroying their pancreatic beta islet cells that produce insulin people are different like you said and it's funny because when that when Jamie pulled it up my mind went to the same place where it's just it's the perfect example of how you know people respond differently to different things and you know it's not it's not just the chemical but food and this is a big big field of inquiry is like the food because you've got people battling just like with the VAC sir people that are anti-vaxxers versus people that want to vaccinate you've got people that are saying saturated fat is bad it's good proteins bad no it's good

you've got you know the all these camps of people that all you know are just basically like it's almost like a religion where they just they know what the best diet isn't everyone should do it and and the reality is that it may not be the best diet for everyone you know and that's something that we all very yeah I mean that's something you know so so before the industrialized you know civilization and like occurred food was like the food you would eat was you know according to where you live geographically right because you weren't getting food from all parts of the world like you were basically we're at whatever you could grow and that part of the world is what you would eat right and so like people would eat carbohydrates or fat saturated fats or you know various Foods you know different at different rates because they were you know that's what they had right and it's thought that you know over over time that humans adapted to the to the region and they adapted so that they could process you know basically process that food better and at least that's the theory

the reality is it doesn't matter how it happened we know that that it's true I'm people have different variations in genes that are involved in nutrition and also in everything else so regardless of whether or not that's you know how it actually occurred it it happens and I think one of the best examples of that is a study that was published in 2015 and journal cell from The weizmann Institute 800 different people were given a continuous glucose monitor whether blood glucose levels were measured every five minutes and these people were then they submitted samples for their DNA to be analyzed and also their microbiome which is the bacteria that live in the gut and so scientists then gave these groups of people various food types either refined carbohydrate like white bread complex carbohydrates like you know like a banana and then saturated fat like cheese and they measured people's glucose response to these various Foods 800 different people

and what was found was that the glucose response varied vastly according to a person's genetic and also microbiome a cup so people you would think well people are going to have a high blood glucose response to white bread maybe maybe somewhat to the banana but there's fiber in there and that sort of changes the way you know the glucose levels reach the blood but the reality was that some people had high blood glucose to the saturated fat which is sort of you know not people don't think about that so that this is this was sort of like one of the first proof of principle studies showing an 800 different people that people are different and they measured the various genes to show it and also their micro but the gut bacteria varied as well because that changes the way your metabolizing Foods so some of these genes like we know we know for example PPR Alpha ppar Gamma fto apoe4 which is what I have all change the way your body metabolizes that and

also way the way your body transports like fatty acids and cholesterol throughout the body and people with some of these polymorphisms in these jeans if they eat a high you know saturated to low poly or monounsaturated fat ratio they can actually have more adverse effects they can have a higher blood glucose they can have higher LDL cholesterol they can have higher obesity risk higher type 2 diabetes risk you know so and that's like I said that's that's something that most people that were that would eat a high you know saturated fat diet wouldn't have and so I've actually been able to look at some of my jeans because there's companies now that allow you to do that and so you know I know that I have an apoe4 so that changes my my diet in a way so you know it because the apoe4 not only predisposes you to Alzheimer's disease and also from adverse effects to TBI but it also affects the way cholesterols transporting your body and it doesn't get recycled very well so I have more

Lester all circulating my body at any given point compared to my husband Dan who doesn't have any belief or a little and we eat the exact same diet like my LDL will be like 20 points higher than his you know like this is an account is there a negative Health effect that so well that it gets a little more complicated but so that the the LDL cholesterol by the way for a long time it's been it's been thought to be a predictor of heart disease because with nutrition and here's the thing with nutrition is is that a lot of our studies are what's called observational studies where we look at this population and we look at a disease risk and we say oh this person eats that and they have a higher risk of that or a low risk or that right so it's a correlation it's not you're not you're not showing that a causal Factor right it's a correlation and it's notoriously like actually my mentor from my post doc dr. Bruce Ames he has this joke the

analogy of it's a joke that he tells it really illustrates this type of study epidemiology it's he says that people that are born in Miami are born Hispanic but they died Jewish so you're born Hispanic and if you don't know the culture Rich cultural history of Miami where there's a lot of big Latino Community people come there from you know Cuba and various places but then old people go there to retire because they hate the cold and they want to like you know you know move and move to Florida so you just look at the data if you just look at the birth records and the death record you'll be like oh people are born Hispanic and they die Jewish wow like right that is epidemiology that's like it's very funny it is and it's a great like analogy because it really does highlight the complexity of doing these types of studies there's all sorts of other factors that play a role if right I mean sure so so the thing is that with nutrition in particular you have to look at not just the epidemiological study but you have to look at control randomized controlled trials where they use biomarkers as

pictures of certain diseases you have to look at animal studies where mechanism is done to understand how things are working you know you have to look at the whole picture because if you just use these studies where oh you get a low-protein diet it's you have a lower all-cause mortality boom I'm going to be a vegan well guess what lots of other things are complicated you know there's there's lots of other factors or the saturated fat one so you ask me does LDL like does that predict your heart disease risk well on a population level for a long time it can because LDL LDL is you know one thing that transports cholesterol and higher levels of it have been associated with a variety of different heart disease risk factors but the thing is is that as you know as time has gone on and tools of got better and when were able to like look more at mechanism scientists have now start to uncover oh there's multiple types of LDL it's not just one type there's different sizes of it that are circulating in the blood and one size is really good the large size

Point size is really good because it's DeLaet delivering cholesterol to your cells and delivering fatty acids to yourself where you need it every time you make a new cell in your body guess what it needs cholesterol and he's fatty acids that's great but there's also smaller sizes that that that are more dense and basically they can't get recycled back to the liver there's a there's a basically a life cycle of the cholesterol it's made in the liver goes out in the bloodstream you donates all this stuff to your very self and it goes back to the liver and it's you know it's sort of like recycled well if you can't recycle it then it stays in your blood stream sort of indefinitely and then it can undergo inflammatory Transformations there and all sorts of things you know bad things happen and so the longer you have something in your bloodstream if it's there for for like decades chances are some shits going to go wrong right is this a dietary issue or hereditary issue in terms of like the size of the LDL so that I don't know how much is known about the hereditary aspect of it it's known that

we for can increase the risk of just having more LDL total there right so what type of LDL it's not known just like regular total LDL not looking at the particle size now the particle size what we do know is there's a big nutrition factor that regulates that and the nutrition factor that regulates that is refined sugar and that's been shown in controlled randomized controlled trials were like healthy men given almost like something that was like a soda you know they were they were given a big drink of just sugar sugary drink for three weeks every day and it completely increased their their inflammatory biomarkers for like a hundred percent but it also ramped up their small LDL particle size the let me let me stop right here because this is a really important point for people that think that drinking a large glass of orange juice is different than drinking a glass of soda it's really not no it's not because you're not going to have the fiber crazy I mean that's crazy if you

if you say that to most people they like what are you talking about you're talking nonsense know if you have a 24 ounce glass of orange juice you're getting a giant dump of sugar in your system right and it's there's many people that think that that's a healthy thing to drink right and so and that's and that's what complicates all these studies is that you then have people eating for example saturated fat which is known to increase the large LDL the healthy LDL it's known to increase fat and in combination you have people that are drinking orange juice or even worse eating cookies and cake and drinking soda bread all that's refined carbohydrate stuff now those two combination together you've got that you've got the LDL and then what happens is with the refined sugar is inflammatory Transformations happen and you get the small dance so this is why it's a problem when people try to look at diet and very simplistic ways right when people will try to say if you eat saturated fat if you eat cholesterol you're going to have high cholesterol in your body and you are going to have heart attacks are going

stroke I mean this is this is a very simplistic thing that people will often say yeah it is very it's it really truly is like I said it's you have to look at mechanism controlled trials you have to look at observational studies are also important you know we also have looked controlled trials where people that are put on a high fat and low refined carbohydrate diet for I don't know a month or so or something like that I don't remember the exact time had all like biomarkers lowered for heart disease risk is there something that people who can do to to take on that diet like how do how do you do that if you want to go vegan is I know a lot of people like to be vegan but in order to get all those fats and in that especially low carbohydrate well so I think that first of all for anyone doing any diet like whether it's a vegan diet or a like ketogenic high-fat diet or low carb high fat diet whatever diet they're doing first thing you should do is definitely measure these biomarkers

LDL particle size can be measured triglycerides inflammatory biomarkers like high sensitive C-reactive protein where would someone go to do that like what's a good place to go through health diagnostic I mean I don't you can ask your your primary care doctor I know truth true Health Diagnostics is one that does like whole panel of really good ones including this small dense LDL particle size a growing number of Physicians do measure LDL particle size Wellness FX is something if you don't want your physician to know what your LDL is because you don't want them to like have some opinion about it while miss effects is a company that will also measure your LDL and particle size and a variety of other biomarkers as well what you're saying about refined carbohydrates or refined sugars and LDL and small LDL Laureate large LDL is this common knowledge amongst Primary Care Providers I mean is this something your doctor is going to understand are they going to try to put you on statins it's it is

not ubiquitous it's not standard of care and it's not ubiquitous ubiquitous in the medical profession yet because it's just within the past decade been starting to scientists and researchers have been starting to uncover the these mechanisms and it usually takes a long time to translate this knowledge because now large-scale clinical trials have to be done in X number of them have to be done a lot of I don't know everything that goes into how regulations are made but it's a lot of it's a lot of clinical trials and a lot of things before any sort of you know regulations are changed so that's something that is not standard yet you can always print out papers and give them to your physician I interviewed a guy on my podcast he's a cardiologist I'm an MD name is dr. Ronald Krauss he's actually the guy who pioneered the test to measure small dense LDL particle size and he's really been a leader in the field for understanding the role of small dense LDL

articles in cardiovascular disease risk and and how basically a person with high LDL total cholesterol may not actually be at risk for heart disease unless you look at the actual particle size and and things like this is what confound the literature because you can and this is what people often refer to as cherry-picking it's kind of a pet peeve in want to hear people say that because it's like anyone could do that I feel like really the response that someone should say is look at the totality of the data look at the clinical trials look at the observational studies look at mechanism look at everything and get the picture like that's that's that's the way you should you know approach nutrition science so you know he's really been a leader in looking at all that but I kind of didn't answer your question about the people that are vegan want to go yeah eat more of a high fat low carb sort of diet or even a ketogenic diet right you know so that's that's something that they're vegans are interested in doing as well and you know I've never I personally because my apoe

background and by the way that's kind of what motivated me to get I got super into this field called nutrigenomics interaction between genes and diet because I found out I had this allele and I knew there was sorts of risk and I'm like there's there's absolutely things you can do in your diet and lifestyle to modify that disease risk and so that's something that I'm you know really interested in and people can actually you can measure your DNA but the DNA doesn't tell you everything you have to measure blood biomarkers like the blood biomarkers are really key to know if a diet's working for you or not and if it's not working for you like I've had people emailing me they've used I have a genetic tool that people can use and if they want to look at a poetry for ppar gamma those are like free reports they've they've tried a ketogenic diet and it was like awful for them their inflammatory biomarkers went up their small dense LDL particle went up all this stuff that happened and then they'd use the tool and found out they had for example the ppar alpha Gene which is a gene that's key for the process of ketogenesis producing Ketone bodies from you know from oxidizing fatty

it's and and people that have a certain one don't do it very well and like the diet can be detrimental like it can it can do more harm that's critical because you know first of all I've been irresponsibly telling people to do that too like I think the ketogenic diet I responded very well to it so I've been telling people to get on a ride at least try it so for what is exactly the gene what is the issue so they're so ppar Alpha it changes it's a gene that's involved in its involved in fatty acid metabolism absorption of fatty acids it's also it's in the in the liver involved in producing Ketone bodies from from the fatty acid so that specific Gene is essential for the process of ketogenesis during a fasted State and also if you're doing you know a ketogenic type of diet and so a certain there's certain variations in that Gene that don't do it very well and so the high fat diet what ends up happening is you're not you're not metabolizing the fatty acids and producing the Ketone bodies quite as well and so you end up having

more free fatty acids floating around in your bloodstream which can antagonize insulin receptor and make you more insulin insensitive which is exactly the opposite of what ketogenic diets usually do you know so there's this varied response you can also have more inflammatory biomarkers for various reasons as well because you're not oxidizing the fatty acids in producing the Ketone bodies as well as lots of things that change but like you know knowing the genes is one component I think I think that you have to measure the biomarkers first and once you if you're doing something like a ketogenic diet for example then you would measure all your lipid particle sizes your triglycerides inflammatory biomarkers want to measure hba1c which is your glycated hemoglobin which is a marker of sort of your long-term blood glucose levels like so you should you have one test initially like a baseline test before you entered the diet and then have a second exactly that's really key you think that the origins of this is your ancestral Origins like what your ancestors diet consisted of low-fat high-carbohydrate diet that's what I was

I'm getting out first and that's the theory at least right like we don't we can't prove that but but there are scientists looking at like different reagent like people that live for example in northern Europe how they eat more fat and they're able to do that better and right so there are scientists that are investigating that because it's interesting to know why why that is but yeah that's that's the thing that's its and I think it really explains a lot like with the ketogenic diet there's it's something that I've become really interested in recently because I've been you know following the field and it appears you know as though there is a really there's something about it that is really important for the way your mitochondria age like it really seems to help your mitochondria age better and I think that there's you know there's multiple I talked to a sort of an expert at he's the president of the buck Institute for research on aging and he his name is Eric Burdon and he just recently published a really big paper showing that in animals cyclic ketogenic diets could extend their

Health span so they are basically healthy part of the life they were living there living longer and they're living better and it and also their memory was like dramatically improved and when you say cyclic is there a specific range that you're cycling so that and this is the how these questions for him that I asked him about and the cyclic so it was every other week so one week they were ketogenic thanks week they were just getting normal normal child died and then ketogenic so they were cycling every other week and the reason for that is because for whatever reason animals when they just when you just give them food to eat like like ad libitum like whenever they want even if it's ketogenic they'll just they'll keep eating like they'll just keep eating it like and and they can become it can become an obesogenic diet whether where they become fat and it can actually decrease their lifespan even though it's ketogenic and I think that's partly because fatty acids in order to use them they have to get inside the mitochondria to be used and

energy and if they don't get inside the mitochondria then they just get taken up into adipose tissue and stored as fat and fatty acids themselves will when the levels are high enough shut that transport system that does that off so it's like a negative regulator so if you just keep on bombarding the body with fat fat fat fat fat like non-stop without a rest then you start to like not be able to use those fatty acids because the inhibits the transport system it's called the Carnot Obama told transferase for those nerdy biologist Geeks out there that you know so anyways I totally regret it rest there it's yeah the cyclic can inject dye so that that was something that extended their health Bandits came very interested in that and so the thing that's super interesting and as I was talking to dr. verdeen about this is that you know there's a couple of things one obviously you're not getting a lot of blood glucose hits all the time right when for the most part if you don't have Gene polymorphisms that are changing the way you process

saturated fat right so you're not your insulin response is not happening quite as often that's lowered and there's there's there's benefits with from that alone right but for someone like me that doesn't eat refined sugar doesn't eat any refined carbohydrates I mean all of my carbohydrates come from leafy greens or vegetables and you know berries and some some some other fruits you know so and my blood glucose levels have always been pretty pretty good like you know fasting blood glucose and all that with the exception of my lack of sleep recently and you know but so the question I wanted to know was like okay well what else is going on and it seems as though the production of the major circulating Ketone body beta-hydroxybutyrate really is

having an anti-aging roll and you know dr. Friedens work showed that it's changing the expression of genes and it's like activating longevity genes and all this but the thing that's super super interesting to me is that the way it's metabolized by mitochondria is different than other energy sources and without getting too much into chemistry it's not in order to produce energy you have to use something called electron reducing equivalents and they can be in the form of NAD nadh Ratio or fadh2 a chant so it's not going through one of those Pathways that generates more free radicals and more basically leaky electrons that can damage mitochondria it doesn't go through that pathway like other energy sources so it's like you end up net not not you know basically you having lower lower inflammatory and lower oxidative damage to your mitochondria it also doesn't have what's called proton proton a fork activity so it's almost like the way your body your mitochondria

capitalizing is better because metabolism you're constantly generating damage like damage constantly rig now all the time it's your just from normal metabolism and it seems as though there's something about that beta-hydroxybutyrate that's Superior and it's definitely got me super interested in it and you know for like the longest time I was thinking well I'll get my beta-hydroxybutyrate by doing time restricted eating right where I'm eating all my food within like 10 hours yeah and then I'm fasting for 14 hours and you know depending on how active what your activity levels are and all that how quickly you deplete your liver liver glycogen you can start to make beta-hydroxybutyrate even within like seven hours if you're really active you know so I was like well I'm getting my Beta beta hydroxy butyrate from the fasting part of the timer started eating right but I have become super interested in in this possible even because there's other reasons I don't need a ketogenic diet I like to get all the micronutrients I like to get Prebiotic fiber

you know that's really good for the gut microbiome but then again I don't we don't know exactly how could you check diets even affecting the microbiome so that's sort of still an open you know open field so I I'm sort of thinking can I do some sort of cyclic you know ketogenic diet and also for me because I have apoe4 I do eat saturated fat but I eat it from like Whole Foods I don't like I used to do a lot of cooking with coconut oil which is high in saturated fat and I'm like what do I need to do that for like I don't really need to cook with coconut oil I can use avocado oil you know and so I changed that and my LDL just dropped 20 points from just that alone you know so it's like and and what ldly overall not large versus small yeah my LDL overall the first time so my Baseline I didn't measure small dent so I don't know what my Baseline wants but I did measure the large so the large and like I said the large can transform into the small bands and so with with refined sugars with refined sugars that's what snow but like you mentioned genetics there may be something

that we don't know what is the mechanism for the transference of Allah with the sugar with the LDL like what what what causes it to become small dense I'm not sure we entirely understand that yeah just because you know there's a correlation there is definitely a correlation and their hand it has been shown in clinical studies to not just be correlation but causal where you give people refined sugar and their small damsel yeah so same diet same diet adding refined sugar you see radical difference you measure their small dense LDL before giving them the refined sugars same diet and then you measure after the the soda you know blast of refined sugar for three weeks and they're small dense LDL particles going through the roof so that's causal because you're giving them something you're measuring it before and after effect and if there's anything that we can conclusively point to its that refined sugar is absolutely bad for you there's no doubt about that right I think so I think that you know there's so many studies that have shown you know the inflammatory biomarkers go up your small dense LDL biomarkers go up there's correlation studies

showing that people that eat refined sugar have like telomeres which are a biomarker for aging that look 10 years older you know even though people they're the same chronological age is other people that don't eat the refined sugar their studies and men would like the give men 75 grams of refined sugar and their testosterone drops by 25% I mean it's changing a lot of things you know in the body and in a negative way well mine my testosterone doubled when I changed my diet when I cut out the pasta when I cut out the bread and I started eating more saturated fat more protein and I went to the ketogenic diet literally it doubled doing everything exactly the same it was stunning and I felt different like I feel the difference feel the difference in my energy levels feel a difference cognitively the cognitive thing was a big thing and I attributed it to cutting out refined sugars and refined carbohydrates and I think that stuff's poison but there's been studies showing it also affects your brain and negative way as well and people that eat refined sugar you know there's there's more brain atrophy I mean there's lots of

relations the one thing I will say is that you know there are people that are super physically active and they're like working out two hours a day and you know those guys they all use refined sugar different to like yeah to you know their increased transport you know glucose transporter their muscles and are using it as an anabolic way to like get bigger muscle and I know guys who do that after they work out the candy yeah I'm and and it's not like it's you can't compare like people that aren't working out like two hours a day or you know like that to normal people especially sedentary P weightlifters yeah weightlifters people that are just ripping their body apart there there's a lot of savages out there that are doing crazy power lifting workouts and benching and squatting and I know a lot of guys who like to eat candy afterwards right yeah no it's certainly you know I think that those people you know they're they're not it's not it's not acting the same way it's radically different requirement that their body needs right terms of glucose right and and the thing is I mean

still it's like the way I think about it is it's not really nutrient dense you know I like to like I'm like well there's lots of there's reasons yeah there's reason why I like to like take if you want the sugar and you know in an orange right or an apple or something like that you should you know probably the better move than eating candy but I think they just want a ton of it and what is the what's the anabolic Factor like if you were going to eat candy or something like that has a bunch of refined sugar after like an intense workout what would be the anabolic Factor well the glucose so the workout causes glucose Transporters that transport glucose to like go through the roof and so you start the blue goes from your bloodstream gets like sucked into the muscle and then the muscle you know you're basically you can you can use that as a way to have insulin and can be anabolic right where where where as if you weren't doing that then the glucose is in your bloodstream and it can all sorts of small dense LDL particles can start to form because the inflammatory Transformations that happen and things like that that's at least my understanding that's in combination of course with Amino

which are also important for the growth of the protein muscle but that's my understanding of it I think so like in general though if someone could cut one thing out of their diet refined carbohydrates and refined sugars be a great way to go I think the one if you were to think about the one easiest thing that you could do that would have the biggest impact on your help and if we're talking we're talking about we're not talking about someone who's already paleo or someone like you're right we're talking about like standard American person yes the one thing that they could do to have the biggest impact on their health I would say is to cut out refined sugar like that's that's probably the biggest thing the easiest thing I mean I don't how easy it is it you know it can be a different variable yeah and that's been shown dopamine levels you know can get activated and that also your gut biome correct right your gut biome literally has an impact on what you desire right yeah it does so you're the thing

your microbiome in your gut is that like you know the the microbiome eats its at the distal part of your gut so it's in the colon right the large intestine the very end of the large intestine is where most of the trillions of bacteria are and those bacteria actually eat the fermentable fiber that we don't digest we don't we don't process and the fermentable fiber comes from a variety of plants from from plants and from seeds and nuts and you know legumes as well oats you know so there's different types of fermentable fiber that are found in different types of foods and they feed different species of bacteria well when you don't get enough of that fermentable fiber what ends up happening in fact there's been studies showing that like 75% of the microbiome population changes and like when you don't get at all any fiber and what happens a couple things one is those Mike those bacterial species they start to eat the carbohydrate that's

in your gut called mucin which is what makes up the gut barrier that separates the immune cells in your gut from the bacteria they start to eat it because it's carbohydrate and so you actually start to break down your gut barrier just from that the second thing that happens is what you mentioned is that a lot of the pathogenic bacteria will swim up to the small intestine where they're usually not supposed to be small intestine is where you absorb sugar protein fats they swim up there and guess what sugar they start so they start to like eat the sugar and they start to multiply in the thing about having bacteria in the small intestine where it's not supposed to be is that it causes the same response that that eating gluten causes where it basically those those it's called small bacteria intestinal Grover growth and what happens is that the tight junctions that make up the gut barrier start to open up and open up and that allows the inflammatory immune cells to be in contact with bacteria and of course immune Cells Go bacteria and they start to like try to kill it because they think it's not supposed to be there

could be potentially harmful pathogenic bacteria and so this starts to set off an immune response inflammatory immune response and the more you have the more sugar eat the more your the population of bacteria is flourishing so so that's like that's another thing that's that's the changing that but it's also the one of the reasons like I was saying you know with them and I've never actually tried a ketogenic diet but because you know for various reasons but I'm not sure how much plants you eat like what like can you eat like a good amount of can you get like the really depends on the individual you know on a very small scale Rob wolf and his wife have done some pretty interesting test where they'll both eat the same thing and they'll both tests themselves he'll test the both of them you know x amount of minutes later and they have a radically different response from the two of them it's really interesting like his wife is much more resilient and he has much more of a difficult time getting back into ketosis it's really he's documented a lot of it on his

his Instagram page but I think it speaks to what you were talking about before that it really depends on where your ancestors evolved and it really has there's different we very biologically so much right we do and and that's that that you know affects how we respond to these foods and all that you know but anyways what was the other thing I wanted to ask you about oh the NAD to remember the NAD I was talking about like the NAD and nadh ratio in any D so this is something what does that I do stand for again nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide and it's something it's something that it's kind of in a way similar to ATP where it's like used as an energetic currency throughout the body for various things but it's actually like required to like for your metabolism like you need it to metabolize you know fatty acids and glucose and you know amino acids but you also you need it

to repair damaged you need it you know for a variety of other things that are happening and the thing is that these NAD levels in tissues that are very energetically demanding they deplete so for example if your immune system you have chronic inflammation and your immune systems Kana chronically being activated the NAD levels are going to that it's kind of like triaging and so what happens is your metabolism suffers and it's been shown now that NAD levels in like you know multiple tissues with age they deplete lots of preclinical Studies have shown that you know plays a role in the aging process and if you for example take like a mouse that has Progeria this Pro aging phenotype and then you give them the NAD it like can like basically Kind of Rescue that in a way and they like live a more normal Health span and more normal life span so it's like and there's lots of studies showing that in various ways there's recently been a lot of interest in it because the NAD there's a way to replenish it

supplemental form called nicotinamide right beside so NAD is actually formed from vitamin B3 like nicotinic acid or not nicotinamide or from tryptophan but nicotinamide right beside is another precursor that you can take in supplemental form and there's been you know studies over the past few years looking at how an animal's it's been able to increase any D levels it's able to like basically improve physical performance cognitive performance it's able to you know make your tissues age better organs age better in animals so now there's like been preclinical trials that are sorry clinical trials that have been under undergoing one showing that you actually can take the supplemental form of NAD and extend my right beside and you can increase your energy levels it just dependent manner so to say that just came out recently and there's now there's now like 10 clinical trials that have been under that are undergoing right now looking at the role of supplemental

tonight Nick to my right beside in dementia in obesity traumatic brain injuries and other one and then some other type of metabolic dysfunction so that these are currently you know being investigated in humans so the NAD thing is another real big interest of mine I did buy the supplement but I'm not taking you right now cause I'm breastfeeding and I'm just not sure how that you know how that goes but you're asking me about the the IB stuff I think that's something that is now popular everywhere I've looked at I've looked it up it's like it's becoming really popular but the thing is is that there's really no clinical evidence of it you know of like if you if you intravenously take NAD like is that going to have the same effect that you know taking Nick to my right beside does it get into yourself so it's an open question but it seems it seems like people are getting results now obviously it's all anecdotal done anything I've ever done like IV vitamin infusions or anything like that no

yeah I haven't I haven't either I haven't done anything that's always look at it I'll go what if that's good what right I mean I don't wanna sit there and have vitamins pumped in my veins for nothing I've had people I've had people tell me that like great things about doing the NAD NAD plus is what it's actually called but I've never actually I've never tried that and I think before I would do something like that I would probably try the nicotinamide right beside which we know for the fact does increase you know NAD levels and multiple tissues and it would be nice to have some of these clinics that are doing it like aggregate the data and publish it because no one's going to fund this study like people aren't studying you know so there's no way to really know if it's a placebo or really you know because there's no data yeah so it'd be kind of nice if like people would start to aggregate data on that but we'll do you know it's really interesting when it comes to data when it comes to diet because you know the

we'll throw the baby out with the bathwater thing one of the studies that I've read pretty recently was about the amount of people that suffered ill health consequences that ate red meat 5 days per week versus people who didn't but will they didn't take into account was what the people ate with the red meat right they drank soda whether what how did you get your form of red meat was it grass-fed beef was it bison or Wild game or was it a burger from Wendy's with fries in the Sugar Bun and all the the bullshit that people eat along with the food and that you literally and people would cite these things as being evidence that something is negative for you that red meat is negative for you but you're not taking into consideration all the things that were eaten with that red meat so these studies that come out like that they're so they're really annoying because it's like you have to talk to people about it you have to like sit down with them okay sit down okay this is a long process

it's try to try to figure out what is the cause of these issues you're talking about a lifetime of abuse you're talking about like all sorts of different Health consequences of a variety of different foods and you're attributing it all to one part of your diet and that's very difficult to do unless you you've isolated everything else and done a bunch of different studies where okay I ate nothing but fruits and vegetables and I really healthy and I read meet five days a week or I nothing but shit and fries and buns and pasta and I didn't eat red meat at all and now here's the results right you're making a really good point and that is the the combination of how these different foods are interacting in our bodies extremely important like we talked about the refined sugar and saturated fat combo well you know the the the red me and even just you know protein like itself like you know essential amino acids that are coming from animal protein itself and how that is interacting with

you know eating eating a terrible diet like refined sugar which is causing damage to ourselves you know also exercise and this is something really the the protein exercise thing seems to be really key but there was a recent study that was published that was the largest study observational study done so far looking at protein intake and all-cause mortality and cancer mortality and it found of like a lot of other studies that higher protein consumption higher meat protein consumption from meat was associated with a higher all-cause mortality in a higher cancer mortality but then when the data was sub analyzed and and other unhealthy style factors will looked at so so if someone had one other unhealthy lifestyle Factor being either obesity smoking excessive alcohol consumption or being sedentary then they had a higher they were had higher all-cause mortality in a higher cancer mortality if they meet but guess what if they had zero none of those other unhealthy

let's all factors they didn't have they had the same aisle cause mortality in cancer related mortality that they're not eating meat eaters had so I think that really highlights the importance of other lifestyle factors other Foods you know that's really important when we're looking at these observational studies when you were talking about saturated fat and the negative consequences of eating refined sugar with saturated fat is there a negative corresponding negative consequence like if you had if you had negative or if you had a diet that didn't have any saturated fat in it but you ate refined sugar like say if you eat a vegan diet does saturated fat or does

fine sugar have less of an impact of eating so the refined sugar vldl right it's an issue with yes fat yeah it I think yes so the LDL will go down if you're eating a vegan diet diet and even though you're still eating cookies or some whatever vegan stuff you know refined sugars probably like less dangerous to someone on a vegan diet is that yes I think so and and the thing the thing with that is is that if you look at but if you look at refined sugar also refined sugars associate with heart disease risk in fact it's like one of the in there was a big big study like 400,000 different individuals looked at refined sugar people that had the highest of refined sugar intake but again saturated fats a confounding Factor there right had like a four times higher risk of getting a heart having a heart attack but it's perfect you Illustrated it perfectly and that is and that's where I think a lot of these guidelines like the American Heart Association come from if you on a population level if you say to someone reduce your saturated fat intake you're going to lower the LDL

risk and regardless of all the other stuff they're doing you know it probably will on a population level lower their heart disease risk but on an individual level like someone like you and I we don't need all that other stuff you know we were very health conscious and do all these things you and I if we stopped our saturated fat intake likely you know well for me I guess my jeans are a little different but likely wouldn't have the same effect so if you were to take that same population of people and say okay eat your saturated fat but take out the refined sugar we may see the same thing where the where the heart disease risk goes down just like it does when with saturated fat in fact there have been studies where replacement foods have done have looked at replacement foods for saturated fat and if you replace saturated fat with refined sugar it does not lower the risk of heart disease so basically that's that's kind of a proof of principle there but I do think that it's an important point and it's something that the American Heart

in there they're now starting to at least mentioned the small dense LDL particles so I think that moving in that direction is good because it means that possibly then you know over the next decade we're going to start to see okay now we got to start it's not just the LDL I'm confused about some you just said you said if you replace saturated fat with refined sugar if you replace the saturated fat with refined sugar if you sorry refined carbohydrates which I usually think of as refined sugars refined carbohydrates it does not so the idea is if saturated fat was so bad if you replaced if you took the saturated fat and replace it with a refined carbohydrate it would lower the risk of heart disease and it doesn't it doesn't lower the risk all right so so basically it's not the saturated fat saturated fat along with refined sugar that has some sort of a negative synergistic effect that's what that's what the data in aggregation looking at the clinical trials looking at the mechanism looking at the observational studies and and understanding the interaction of

all these Foods together and the what happens when the American Heart Association puts out sort of a blanket statement like that a lot of people take it as fact and then what my research has shown my reading rather I shouldn't say research I'm a dummy but the the people that I've read who have criticized this that are actually scientists and researchers they have a huge issue with that statement they think that this is just it's too simplistic it's not taking into account all the various nuances in genetics diet ancestry all the different factors but people read that and it's sort of like this cookie cutter approach and then they paired it out to everybody else yeah it's true I mean that's that's exactly what happens and and the same thing goes with with the protein and it being bad as well and there's all sorts of nuances and the combination of the protein with the with the bad diet and also the exercise which is one of the one of the things with the with the protein is that it increases igf-1 and igf-1 is a growth factor and it can allow the cells that are damaged that should Otherwise Die not

and so it can allow precancerous cells to form a tumor and that's we know that from mechanistic studies and you know that's that's kind of a big part of the the eating protein essential amino acids specifically at what does do this and they're found in animal protein and that sort of the big argument there but there's also this whole argument where if you are one exercising the igf-1 goes into your brain it's been trying to cross the blood-brain barrier goes into your brain and also on your muscle where it grows new neurons in the brain and actually repairs damaged much damage muscle tissue and helps grow muscle tissue which is also and a predictor of all-cause mortality so you know the X again the exercise comes in there and then also the fact that if you're eating a good diet and you're not you're not causing as much damage to happen in the first place then those growth factors being there aren't as big of a deal because you don't have all these damaged cells from all this refined sugar you're eating that can basically become cancerous cells so that's kind of you know with that study of the observational study that looked at

that eating me if they didn't have any of those unhealthy lifestyle factors guess what they're all cause mortality and cancer mortality was the same as the vegetarians and I think that's kind of highlighting that that that issue you know well have a friend as a scientist who's talking to me about me and he goes meetings essentially amino acids protein and water he's like it's not going to cause you cancer it's like this is not what the problem is he goes you you have some issues with the way it's cooked sit for sure like things that are charred are not good for you there's carcinogens right and in the blackened charred yeah I mean there's heterocyclic amines that can form when you cook meat at a really high temperature and those are carcinogens and but our body our bodies have genes that are able to inactivate those somebody's but some not people can do it to various levels there's certain polymorphisms in genes that basically some people can detoxify it really well and they're called detoxification enzymes and some people don't do it quite as well and the people that don't do it quite as well probably shouldn't Char their meat as much like you shouldn't eat it like every day

charred but but that's not the big issue isn't so much that as the the igf-1 which doesn't cause cancer but it allows cancer cells to grow see the difference it's like one is like oh you eat me it causes cancer well no that's not necessarily true you eat a lot of meat and you don't exercise and you keep having igf-1 around and you have all these other damaged cells because you're eating all this other crap which is causing damage then you're allowing the igf-1 you know to allow those damaged cells to grow so one is like a promoting where it's promoting the growth of cancer and the other ones saying it causes so it doesn't cause in that sense now in the carcinogen you know if you're getting a ton of carcinogens and and plus there's studies showing that eating cruciferous vegetables the isothiocyanates in people that have that Gene polymorphism that don't detoxify the heterocycle Gaming's as well if they eat a diet high in cruciferous vegetables and they have isothiocyanates it they also in activate those those were Pro carcinogens and

punishable broccoli Sprouts broccoli cauliflower cabbage Brussels around jacked up the broccoli Sprouts industry last time you're on it's amazing I've had people emailing me that like they're either themselves or their father or someone they're taking care of their prostate cancer biomarker the prostate stimulating Angela antigen has like gone down like to fold after doing the broccoli Sprouts every day for x amount of time wow which is something I we talked about because it's clinical clinical trials have shown that it's it's very powerful now when you when you look at animal protein and I'm including fish in this for this is there any benefit to a specific type like someone was telling me that red meat is better for you than chicken and I was like well how do you know and they're like well it's how it makes me feel and I said okay well it doesn't seem to make much sense like what is but is there a difference I mean obviously there's a difference in the protein content like of some Meats like

Wild game has a much higher protein content then say domestic beef but when you think like fish like is there is our living animals all created equal that's the question well of course there's lots of differences I mean if you know the protein the amino acid makeup are different and I'm not an expert on that so I can't tell you all the differences there but there's differences in in the micro nutrient concentrations I mean omega-3 fatty acids are in fish are a lot of irons and in red meat so there's different you know different zinc you know Iron selenium omega-3 fatty acids all these different things are found in different concentrations and different types of meat and you know so for that reason it's kind of good to eat a diverse array of different types because you're getting you know 22% of all your enzymes in your body require micronutrient as a cofactor to work you know and the omega-3 fatty acids are important you know really important for the brain hugely important you know for the brain so I think that in that respect you know they're obviously differences in terms of the different

types of me that you're eating right I mean right so so yeah but and then the ratio of the proteins are different I don't know exactly how what what those differences are but you know there's that affects things as well so do you think like a healthy approach if someone does eat meat is to eat a little bit of everything like a little bit of salmon maybe a little bit of red meat a little bit of Bison little bit of chicken I think that's the approach I like to take because I like to I like to look at things in terms of nutrient quality and why am I why am I eating this food oh I'm eating this food because I want this type of amino acid profile I want these micronutrients you know I want either this type of Prebiotic fiber or not and you know so I kind of look at it as these like nutrient delivery vesicles that I'm like taking in and and that's that's the approach I like I you know I it's I'm a little biased because I've been doing a lot of research on micronutrients and so I you know I know how important they are and I

I've studied even in people things like biomarkers of Aging like DNA damage and seeing how they change with different micro nutrient intakes or different types of fiber intakes or things like that so so you know for me I kind of I'm a little biased in that sense but you know it's the approach that I like to take you know for example this is a really good story My Mentor Brew same Bruce Ames who I talked about a lot he was the inventor of the Aims Test which is a test really cheap tested you can do this to determine whether or not something is a carcinogen in fact I'm sure the heterocyclic amines were determined from his test because you can dump something on and he can base it basically can tell you like no matter of minutes right so he's that was his like he was pioneered that back in like the late 70s early 80s and he was responsible for getting carcinogens out of hair dye woman's hair dyes out of children's pajamas lots of lots of really big Health impacts idea what's in pajamas there was some kind of polyurethane is thing I don't remember exactly it

there anymore but it was in it was it was to prevent them from it was a flame retardant it was a flame retardant and it was it was completely a carcinogen and it was ending up in children's urine and stuff they were measuring it yeah so anyways my point is is that he used to be this whole like cancer chemical carcinogen field and then one day like you know someone in his lab to lab did an experiment where they like left folate out of the sample and there was like massive amounts of DNA damage happening he's like what's going on here and they started to do this in mice and found that like a low folate dilate diet caused damage to DNA the same as being irradiated by an x-ray machine the exact same and then he wanted to people and found you know there was like a really small expert pilot experiment but similar the cause DNA damage on people that had a low folate diet and he said that one experiment right there changed the whole course of his field of study where he all of a sudden went into nutrition and micronutrients and that became his thing from the 80s on

kind of from an accident yeah from an accident that happen all the time in lab all the time it's what's best stuff it was funny because the guy in is loud was like calling he was trying to figure out what is going on here and then he looked at his assistant had ordered this media that you put on cells and he looked at the media try to figure out was in it and they saw it was a specific type of media that his assistant had ordered incorrectly that lacked folate and so this whole thing was all started from that and so credible yeah so he published his seminal paper work literally he compared mice being irradiated under an x-ray machine to low folate and it was identical now would that be something that people should take into their diet of say of they are flight attendants or Pilots because Don't They isn't like flying like a form of radiation you do get some radiation that's similar to an x-ray right yeah I mean that's it the folate it's a different mechanism by how it's preventing it basically folate is needed to make a

for precursor to DNA and without that precursor you don't make the DNA right and you incorporate a nucleotide from RNA into it and so you basically make a break in your DNA strand but but DNA damage is yeah is something that happens with with you know pilots and astronauts and things like that and those have been measured yeah it's been measured and if there was a really weird study that came out recently that astronauts they had like exceptionally longer telomeres then yeah where it's like it was totally counterintuitive where DNA damage usually causes telomeres to get shorter and so like if you were to have asked me I would have predicted that if the astronauts would have had shorter telomeres this is definitely some weird stuff going on we don't understand you know but there's obviously a variety of other things you can do to protect yourself from that but I forgot why the whole point is that the micronutrients were important Bruce Ames is has been my mentor and friend for

years and I've sort of been in this field of study for a while and so it's how I think about food and doesn't mean it's the best way but it's the way that I've convinced myself so far with the tools that I have available to me that that's how I like to eat and again anyone that's doing any sort of diet should always measure biomarkers and things like that to know if it's working for them and what's a gorgeous good source of folate leafy greens in fact my Bruce's Mentor when he was a graduate student is the guy who identified he actually discovered folate by identifying isolating it from spinach so spinach yeah leafy greens are great source of folate but the leafy greens like the other thing that gets me on this and I know I talked about this last time was like other compounds that are in the in the plants were we're sort of just scratching the surface on understanding them like what they're doing in our bodies like one for example is Lou Deane it's president leafy greens kale is a really really great source of it looting is like it's found in the first of all it was known

that new routines important for the rods and cones in your eye and so people like they'll take supplements with looting to help with their Vision but all this recent research over the last few years is found is like accumulating in large amounts in the brain like what is looting doing in the human brain well it turns out it's like there's been clinical studies now controlled trials like giving people looting and and and and it's it plays a role in cognition like people have better learning and memory scores after taking looting it's involved in crystallized intelligence which decreases with age you know so there's like there's things like that and other one is this one that I'm really interested now I'm actually supplementing it with PQ and that one is it's made by bacteria and bacteria in the soil so it's made by bacteria because it's important for it's a cofactor for enzymes for their metabolic enzymes to work well plants take it up from soil and then we take eat the plants and get in our diet and it's been shown now and like in a few studies lots and lots of preclinical studies

shown to like regulate mitochondrial function improve mitochondrial function clinical a couple of clinical trials now have been done looking at how it affects humans if you supplement with like 20 makes a day improves cognition it also improves markers of mitochondrial function lowers markers of inflammation Well turns out PQ has like 20,000 times the catalytic activity than something like ascorbic acid so it's really powerful antioxidant and what I mean by that is so ascorbic acid goes through cycles of vitamin C it's either oxidized or reduced and it can when it when it does is antioxidant thing it becomes oxidized and they can do that four times where it goes it donates you know it donates this this hydrogen and you know help it helps you know basically combat reactive oxidative stress but then it gets oxidized again it can do it again 4 times P Cube does it twenty thousand times like isn't that mind-blowing twenty thousand times and it's

really concentrated in breast milk so I'm actually taking it right now it's super interesting seems like something's everyone should supplement I think maybe so I liked it yeah because you know I you know you never really know but I'm supplementing with it and and I certainly don't notice anything because like sometimes those those sorts of changes are really hard to measure and especially you have to wait until who knows like later on in life but I think it may be something that's important that maybe has beneficial effects in humans as well so and I like again you can you get it from plans but 20 milligrams a day is when I'm taking because that's what the two different clinical trials have shown what's the best plant source of it I don't know what the best I'm sure you could find that Google but because various various plants take it up from the soil so probably things that are growing in the soil right

yeah best but yeah it's like it's found like five or six fold higher and higher levels that it is in our tissues and plants of course because the plants are the source of it but but yeah taking a supplemental form will be getting orders of magnitude more do you have a supplement company that you rely on the most I do so the thing with supplements is that there's they're really risky there's lots of studies that have been published showing that a lot of supplements don't contain what they say they contain or they contain a fraction of it and they got a bunch of other filler like Clover Leaf and stuff so one of the supplement companies so and there's a scientist friend of mine his name is dr. Jeff Fahey he's like he's the guy who discovered that broccoli Sprouts are the best source of sulforaphane he he measured a variety of supplements and he was looking specifically at like precursors to sulforaphane and he looked at a variety of different companies and one of the companies that was just really really really good and reliable was Thorn

Auntie hor any and that's something I don't have any affiliation with them or anything but that I always there my go-to brand whenever I'm looking for a supplement like I took I took their prenatal from throughout pregnancy actually I'm still taking the prenatal I'm breastfeeding I take their vitamin d and vitamin K2 I take pretty much a lot of my stuff comes from them and the pqq however that I've only been able to find from life extension and I think Life Extensions pretty okay so far as I can tell but Thorne is Mike my my favorite company so far just because I've got data from a scientist that I that that I you know trust yeah it's a difficult issue and tainted supplements are a huge problem with athletes a lot of false positives or not even false positives a lot of athletes will take supplements like if they go to like some just generic vitamin store you know whatever name the name and they pick up some sort of a creatine or muscle enhancer or this or that

didn't it a lot of them are tainted with steroids or they're used in the same Labs or created rather in the same labs and they don't clean the bins and so like the Vats that they used to mix up One supplement will the whatever was in residual traces of it will wind up in some other stuff wow it's really true I think there's what you were taught were referring to their a lot of something supplement companies that have a stamp on it called NSF which is the National Sanitary Foundation I believe they go and they investigate where the the supplements manufactured and they look at the Quality and they also I think even look at some some of the what's in the supplements if they contain what they're supposed to contain to some degree but I know they definitely look at the manufacturing place to see if things like that were you know things aren't being clean right and there's contamination all that so supplements that have that stamp or probably a little more reliable than once I don't but it's still not like a sure thing right so it's not like it just because it has that stamp it

it's going to be the best that I think a lot of people listening this they're going to probably have to listen three or four times and take notes and go over this and try to figure out if they're going to do something how to act a lot of people have a hard time digesting all this data and trying to figure out what is the best way to proceed in terms of investigating their own health and like monitoring their blood levels and trying to find a primary care doctor though kind of understand what they're trying to do yeah I mean the the primary care doctor thing finding one I certainly can't help with that because I mean that's the struggle that you and I have but you know in terms of taking taking your own health into your own hands and monitoring blood biomarkers I mean there's a there's a few that are really really key I think for anyone doing anything any type of experimentation that they should do and we've talked about them already you know the the small dense LDL the total LDL you also want to measure triglycerides High sensitive C-reactive protein hb1 hba1c which is the

your marker of long-term fasting blood glucose but also there's another test that you can do that actually is a really comprehensive metabolic tests to measure how your body's metabolizing carbohydrates fatty acids and amino acids it's called The Organic acid test and Genova Diagnostics offers it and unfortunately you do have to get your primary care physician to prescribe or to like order that because that's not something that's that's available to people but it seems like there's room for a company to do this like a One-Stop SHOP Company there's sort of analyzes your health and prescribes to you you know like explains to you what's lacking in your diet and what you could benefit from and what you can seems like there's there's a big opening for some sort of a business like that yeah I mean I think some people are actually doing it like Genova Diagnostics I think is one they do sort of do that like they'll they'll tell you what's missing or like the help interpret your data and Genova Diagnostics and is it Nation

company a nationwide yeah but I don't know about worldwide so yeah so if you're in Europe yeah yeah yeah so but and I think there's other companies that are kind of you know like wellness effects kind of is doing that a little bit as well they give you a consult with someone after you get a brighter blood markers measured and you know that try to help you figure out that as well and you know so it's certainly I think there's there's and other people it's just a matter of finding a good one it's always the catch right yeah it seems like it with this kind of stuff for the average consumer the average person's listening to this it seems very daunting it's like boy there's so much to think about there so I mean a lot of times when people get inundated with that much data they sort of shut down right there go this is just how I can do this this is too much and I really wish there was like a nationwide network of places like this where you could just go to sort of like you can go to you know a dentist it should be like a place where you go to get this kind of

comprehensive information about your diet and the effects on your body and what genes you have and yeah yeah yeah I mean the problem the problem is we're still figuring out all those nuances and so you know even even getting the data having the person interpret its you know it's constantly evolving right and you would have to have someone who's completely on top of it all the time so we'd have to be like sending them do literature yes I constantly yeah because we're constantly changing the way we think about a variety of things and she's like some billionaire dude would look want to hire you up and have them like what have you watch over them all the time and monitor their blood and try to figure out what they're doing wrong and prescribe things to them yeah monitor their blood give them Youngblood yes I'm George Soros type character is that real that Youngblood thing because I know that's a real thing with mice but are they really doing that with people because I had heard that Peter teal had done it but then he says it's bullshit he's never done it oh really did say it was yes oh okay fine that Jamie Peter teal denies ever did he injected with young

okay good to know yeah it is there there I know that the clinical trials that were doing done at Stanford I don't know if they've been established yet fuck no Peter deals not harvesting the blood of the I like how that picture of him with fans okay it says stories of count oh Countess is bathing and virgin blood vampiric Noble sucking the juice out of the young of captured our attention for centuries been stories coming out the tech billionaire Peter Thiel was interested in transfusing teen blood into his own body it's in Silicon Valley to a fever dream but but there is something yeah so there's a company that does this oh is there I didn't know that I was a northern California company a startup that does this that gives you Youngblood yeah see if you can find that so there that is a real that parabiosis is what it's called and they're definitely this anti-aging startup is charging thousands of dollars fourteen blood look at this kid kids probably high on ecstasy right there always

giving up his blood so they take this young person's blood it says like plot points from HBO's Silicon Valley just ask Peter Thiel yeah just really credible what's that snow he's saying I'm looking into parabiosis da okay which I think is really interesting this is where they see he probably is looking into it he just hasn't done it because he's probably waiting to see if someone starts growing a foot on her head Jazzy Kazakh Karma's in karmazin karmazin agrees his startup Ambrosia is charging what eight thousand dollars a pop expensive for blood transfusions from people under 25 he said it code conference on Wednesday Ambrosia which buys its blood from blood banks now hows about a hundred okay buying its but so they must specify who the people are now when you go to Blood Bank do they need to know like what the fuck you been doing with your body that's what my I'm wondering I mean it's I'm I know they monitor for certain diseases like diseases and stuff they're like well no but it's like all the other nuances all the other stuff

don't I don't sugar and candy right bullshit yeah that's right and so I don't LDL is that a that represented in your blood I mean there's certain biomarkers that you can that yeah you can absolutely measure and you can certainly look at telomere laying or telomere length DNA damage things like that so a joke about Dick Cheney the Dick Cheney had an extra secret service agent that they put on this like super healthy diet and he couldn't figure it out and you know and he would have to run when everybody else did everything was just really there in case Dick had a heart attack they're going to cut this guy open like a fish pull his organs out give Dick his heart but this is I mean this is what you would want sort of you would want someone like okay I want your blood I'm going to pay you for your blood but look can't be drinking right no smoking no sugar no bullshit you'd have to monitor them like you would like someone like the surrogate moms yeah there's a yeah but fresh bright you'd have to that they'd have to live with me at happened like know what they're doing right well you know what you know what else this is and this will be up-and-coming it's not just fresh

so you know for people listening they don't know transplanting blood from Young animals into Old animals like rejuvenates their brain it makes them live longer driven it's all their organ and so like they're healthier and conversely and conversely putting the old blood into young animals messes them up makes them age basically it makes them for worse cognitively and all that he's got something he's gonna pull up here with us today it's saying that they found it in one test that it might have worked but it hasn't been replicated and these two paragraphs say that it might not even be true which one interesting so some aspects of Aging the 2013 study found could be reversed when older mice get blood from younger ones but other researchers have haven't been able to replicate these results and the benefits of parabiosis in humans remains on yeah I remember that what happened was they didn't they couldn't replicate the mechanism they thought it was this growth factor called g d and f and the like oh that's not replicatable like that's not what's doing it and then this other study came out showing that you could transplant the old

into the young and it would reverse the effects and so now scientists are going oh is it that the young blood is rejuvenating or is that the old blood is accelerating the Aging right the difference though so that's kind of like I think where it's possibly at now but I was going to just mention to you that microbiome that's heading there as well like there was a preliminary study that was published not long ago in Kill fish where the microbiome from Young fish was transplanted in the old fish and it like extended her life span by like 40 percent whoa so you take the microbiome from a young person like my son yeah braised it down yeah so yeah well it's funny because they think the mechanism has to do with mune system I'm always telling you your microbiome makes the short chain fatty acids and it totally regulates your immune system it you know you it regulates the amount of you know a variety of different immune cells that you're making and so like home at a police is one which is making new blood cells and there's been studies that have looked at the

grow by almost like really healthy 90 year olds and they look like the microbiome looks like like a 30 year old even though these are 90 year old people so usually the microbiomes vastly different older people but these healthy 90 year olds obviously they're healthy if they make it to 90 it's not that's not an average age most people make it to their microbiomes looked like a like a 30 year old which is super interesting so it's a whole new I think we're going to start to see like kind of like the parabiosis it's like the microphone microbiome transplant that's it yeah young poo make stage fish live longer break I love headlines they break headlines down and just just get you to click on it will Pope's the easiest right because now it's like you know and they're doing these capsules now we're taking Cooper going to poop right yeah and it's like helping people with her IBS and of course like I think the problem was like making sure doesn't taste like shit when it's going down because like the castle can open up just mix it with sugar and then you got other problems grab a spoonful of sugar

poop go down right now it's yeah it's crazy what do you think about Stevia like so the stevia there's it's a non-nutritive sweeteners so it's not like it's not like aspartame or saccharine or what's the other ones to Carlos yeah which by the way those have all been shown to like screw up the microbiome yeah those are really bad yeah they like change the by the way that sorry Coke is what the president drinks 12 cans a day of what yes no wonder wise make it shit decisions because are you serious yeah so New York Times story they said that he drinks 12 cans of Diet Coke a day and watches as much as eight hours of Television a day so he's literally like a test monkey that really true that's crazy it's really true so you can find that article 12 cans of diet are it is Trump reportedly drinks 12 cans of Diet Coke it looks like you're losing it using an adblocker what's the main the main

enter and Diet Coke aspartame the things that aspartame yeah Trump drinks duck 12 Diet Cokes per day what can that do to a person's body then they have a scientist on we're fucked I'll tell you what it does to the microbiome it like changes the composition so that you're like you're getting the kind of bacteria that are really good at harvesting the glucose from from like the small intestine area and it makes people like become obese like that's the associative studies and people like that they've shown that and people and of course they've done causal studies in animals showing that but Stevia is interesting because I've seen positive studies with that where it seems to like improve and celyn sensitivity which is kind of weird it is hard I personally am always

I'll use Stevia like if I'm like gonna let's make some hot cocoa with a hundred percent cocoa and I just tastes like ass and like I need some Stevia it's like otherwise you're just doing a shot of it like a Ste hot cocoa with no sugar or Yeah a hundred percent cocoa or Cacao is all sorts of benefits with that too but but yeah with this I don't really use a lot of stevia like my in-laws they they like to put it in their smoothies because I've gotten so used to my smoothies tasting Kaylee that I guess you know and plus I don't eat anything sweet so I don't really need it but they like to put it in their smoothies and right you know I don't I don't know if it has any we haven't really seen negative Health consequences with the exception I think there was one study in rats where they gave them like exceptional amounts and it like change the hormonal profile or something so I didn't consume any during pregnancy because I was worried about that but we'll don't be a rat be fine right study study but I think that's probably

my choice if I were to sweeten something like my put in my coffee or something I'd put Stevia Trump is grossly overweight yeah that's so the microbiome what's funny is that people do taking Diet Coke are trying are trying to like improve they don't they you know they don't want the refined sugar yeah they don't want to have the the constant insulin response and so they're drinking the diet coke it's kind of ironic that it's like it's like making them or be obese by changing the gut microbiome know is it safe to drink just one can every now and again or is just something you sure one can every now and then is okay you know it's not I mean it's not going to like completely not 12 cans a day or even one candidate you're constantly going to certain your microbiome you're constantly going to keep shifting it and towards you know really the one today probably yeah because it's the microbiome is yeah yeah sweet taste though Diet Coke do enjoy dark oak I haven't had Diet Coke has like 2006

I had one yesterday and hotel cracked it open really haven't I really haven't had one since 2006 cold yeah I used to drink them I used to drink them when for light in college and stuff to stay awake and study for exams and all that but if you taken something like that should you take a corresponding like some sort of a probiotic to try to combat that I mean the problem with that is you know the probiotics which by the way there's all sorts of interesting studies that have shown effectiveness of certain probiotics that are you know have a lot of that have live bacteria and a lot of them but you know in order for the probiotics to work you either have to constantly take them or their needs to be space in your gut for them to take residents in right so if you're like feeling your body with all sorts of sugar or Diet Coke and all this then where's the probiotic that you're taking in going to attach right so it's kind of flow through and the flow through has benefits but you have to keep taking it you know

for that for that to happen so the so really a healthy diets the way it's not you can't just counteract with supplementation your health it healthy diets the way meaning you know the fermentable fiber which is what helps grow helps the commensal and good bacteria basically grow and Thrive but probiotics help me a lot like after I had some I had some gut issues from from stress with graduates graduate school and so that definitely helped me and I don't I take them once in a while now like you know but I don't I don't take them every day like I did you know when I was like trying to like heal myself and and the one I was taking I think we've talked about was 450 billion it's called vsl number three but now there's another company called Vis biome that is like the guy who made this BSL number three is doing this Biz bio make the same formulation I've tried it out as well but it's like a little cheaper and I don't have any affiliation with either those companies but there's been clinical clinical studies with both of them showing Effectiveness and so it's certainly an interesting

singing field growing field and there have been some clinical studies in humans were for example the one that's super interesting the brain the brain stuff the way it's affecting the brain is interesting and there's clinical studies there was one recent one I think I tweeted where there was like 10 randomized controlled trials they weren't really high quality but it's a start and it like improved measures of anxiety and people other Studies have shown randomized controlled trials been a couple other showing it improves depression scores and also in cognition so there's you know again the immune system modulation of the immune system will affect the brain immune system definitely is you know basically inflammatory factors and things like that can cross over to the blood-brain barrier and getting the brain and disrupt neurotransmitter production and all sorts of stuff but also the gut brain access the vagal nerve we're like you can make certain things that are like if you if you have certain bacteria in the gut that are making for example Gaba that can like stimulate the nerve and

inhibitory way that like calms and does something calming to the that it to the brain part we don't really understand all the mechanism that's just fascinating field that I'm like trying to follow and keep up on you know but I mean the question is do you do normal healthy people need to take probiotics all the time and I don't know the answer but I do think that we need to eat the right foods to get our microbiome healthy and avoid things like you know what's it called aspartame yeah aspartame NutraSweet all that's the same stuff right that's NutraSweet aspartame yeah I think it is the blue packet yeah now getting back to developing fetuses and an infant developing in the womb when you were talking about foods that cause inflammation and autoimmune diseases there's there's a correlation between those two correct so when you're eating inflammation causing Foods refined carbohydrates refined sugars and you have

maybe and if you have this inflammation in your body and you're having autoimmune reactions and this can trigger many autoimmune diseases that people have what does there has there been studies done trying to understand what happens when you consume a lot of pro inflammatory foods foods that cause information and what kind of a reaction that has to the developing child well Studies have been done you know to to establish causation in animals and looking at correlation there have been correlated correlative studies in humans so for example most of the time though people the correlative studies aren't looking at whether or not they're consuming the quote-unquote inflammatory foods that cause inflammatory types of reactions like refined sugar they're just looking at obese mothers and usually someone who's obese typically is not eating a healthy diet so I think that more times than not can say Well they're probably eating a lot of refined carbohydrates and things like that but you know and and so that you know the correlation between that

and looking at you know negative Health consequences and Offspring like type 1 diabetes even poor doing poorly on cognitive cognition tests and things like that that's been looked at animal studies there have been studies that have shown you know cause Ali that you can do that by feeding a mouse a high-fat high-sugar diet and then you know making the female Mouse obese and you know changing basically the way there The Offspring metabolism and their immune cells are reacting so things like that definitely have been shown din in animal studies but it's it's really almost impossible to show a causal study like that and in humans hmm right so it's like you kind of have to like you've got these like you were showing with the acetaminophen and ADHD degrees risk like you're not going to have a controlled trial where they're going to give women acetaminophen during pregnancy and see if it causes ADHD like that's never going to happen like you can't it's not it's it's unethical right you know so then the next best thing would be to like then go to animal studies and show it you know the problem there

album with the animal studies and this is this is always the problem is you know you never know how much of it translates you know things things are different like the way there they metabolize the livers of mice metabolizes xenobiotics can be a little different than humans and so things like you know these mice can be a little more susceptible to things like BPA and you know things that are that are damaging than humans which contains certain enzymes that some of these my slack that can you know basically alter their metabolism and make it not so harmful so to speak but but still I think it's good if you've got like the prospective studies in humans that's correlating and then you've got the mechanistic studies in animals it's a stronger it's a stronger argument that if you just looked at one or the other you know and there have been studies that show there's a correlation between my gut microbiome and children with autism and Asperger's and several other diseases from yeah there have been the gut microbiome

seems to play a major role in there's definitely some changes with autistic children and an Asperger's like being on the autistic Spectrum so and that's something that's like I'm not sure it's entirely understood but there's a connection there there's a connection with with the gut microbiome and Parkinson's disease with multiple sclerosis I mean these are these are lots of studies are coming out showing these connection with brain you know problems not not just you know autoimmune type of diseases like multiple sclerosis but neurodegenerative diseases and just even behavioral diseases so you know there's it's a whole it's a we're kind of just starting to scratch the surface of this filled with the microbiome and even cancer like there's there's you know it's known that the the some of the short chain fatty acids that microbiome certain species make increase the production of something called natural natural killer T cells and there's been animal studies where you inject them with like

human tumors and literally it can you know if you give these animals a big dose of probiotics which which helped create the species that make these short chain fatty acids that make t regulatory cells they can kill cancer cells almost as good as the chemo control if they're giving these animals and then if you look at there's some preliminary human trials like for example humans at had colorectal cancer and they're given a high dose of probiotic like close to to 400 billion probiotic products a day it like lowered their cancer recurrence of course they had the: surgically removed but you know still it's lowering their cancer recurrence and I think that's interesting along with knowing what we know about animal studies and natural killer T cells and all that so you know it's not just brain but it's also a lot of diseases yeah cancer you know autoimmune diseases lots of things and gut is so important really is it's the it's the major source of inflammation in the body it's the major source like people are so worried about

in the sex thing exoticness Lee from some chemical and it's like yeah you should be worried about that but you should be worried about your gut health like really and probably one of the least understood yeah terms of the general public yeah I mean and even scientists like we're just now really diving into that and I think that I should say least aware right yeah exactly most people have no idea that it's even an issue now when you consider the fact that the rise in children on the Spectrum corresponds with the rise of refined carbohydrates and refined sugars in our diet do you think that there's some sort of a connection there I don't see it has a negative effect refined sugars have a negative effect on your microbiome certainly I mean there's I think there's lots of contributing factors to autism you know I published a paper on this with vitamin D deficiency being one I think that diet you know diet a lot of other factors play a role paternal age actually plays a role smoking salsa been shown like maternal smoking so I don't age apparently particularly for the Father the father is eternal

yeah so that seems to and that's something that's a couple of studies of published I think even recently it just kind of a big one came out that was confirming because most people think it's maternal right but it's actually both maternal plays a role in Down syndrome so but I'm not aware of maternal age being linked to autism although I wouldn't you know be surprised there's probably an interaction with all these things and interaction with you know the the the quality of the DNA and a woman's egg or sperm and sperm and the type of diet they have and whether they're taking you know acetaminophen or whatever fill-in-the-blank pharmaceutical or Diet of the father and the diet of the father you were talking about before with obese people yeah and what's interesting with that now and that diet I mean not study that was totally a pilot experiment just looking at how it altered gene expression but if you look in the animal studies paternal diet so so males male mice that were given a high-fat high-sugar diet most of the time by the way when you see

learned that says high fat diet causes blank high fat diet in animal studies is always high fat high sugar and they always always it's all it's almost always almost always high sucrose and high high fat but why don't they say that I don't I don't know because I guess you know there's so so drastically changing the fat composition that they just kind of always say the high fat and the interaction between these two things just really is now starting to be understood but it really is a high-fat is almost always so I always call it high inflammatory diet because combination of the two but anyways they feel they if you feed male mice this diet of high fat and high sucrose they become obese and then they have Offspring if you feed the feet the their offspring normal diet so not not the high fat so they just fed a normal child I had those Offspring female Offspring don't become obese but they get type 1 diabetes wow so it's because in the what and what was found is that

the Obesity was changing genes that regulate pancreatic beta-cell insulin production in their sperm DNA and that was passed on to The Offspring so that's kind of again looking at the it's also complex I know it is it's complex it's interesting I'm certainly like I'm constantly trying to optimize you know everything I can to you know the best of my ability and things are always changing you know that's the thing with science and that's also the thing with you know following following someone or following a certain Dogma you know things change and you have to be able to like accept that things change the more data we have the more tools that we have at our disposal to you know to investigate things you know our Paradigm shifts like saturated fat I mean that's it's a huge Paradigm Shift you know people in my parents generation like my dad and he's just convinced that like see saturated fat is like going to kill you right

you know it's powered by people every day and you know we've talked about this before I believe on the podcast you and I about that study the studies rather with the scientists were paid off by the sugar industry right and that's the sugar industry is probably one of the worst examples like it's not always the case you know like if you have someone funding your research that is involved in whatever you're investigating the sugar industry is particularly bad but it's not always the case like I was involved in research with blueberries and the research was funded by the high blue Bush blueberry Council and so we did this placebo-controlled trial where we were looking at you know there's a whole panel of scientists involved and I was just one of the scientists involved and I was looking specifically at DNA damage and you know how blueberries modulated that DNA damage which can lead to aging and cancer and stem cell dysfunction all sorts of things and there was a placebo group so normos amount of work you know we had to isolate blood from patients they were they were given this blueberry pie

they were taking twice a day for eight weeks or Placebo powder and then we had to let you know look at their DNA damage and what my work found was that to my surprise so blueberries lower DNA damage which is what I thought because they have a variety of compounds in them that are known that to be antioxidants but what was really surprising to me was that it the placebo actually lowered DNA damage just as well if not better then the blueberry powder and the placebo powder had a little bit of refined sugar in it and some like coloring food coloring and stuff and so I was like what's going on here how is the sugar lowering DNA damage Well turns out I had looked at gene expression data as well all these genes that are that are involved in stress response and in hormesis the reason I was looking at that is because there are certain compounds in the blueberries that can have a dramatic response and I wanted to see if that was being activated well it wasn't really robustly being activated in the blueberry

button Placebo some of these Pathways the same Pathways that like sulforaphane can activate really well to some degree was being activated because we think it was slightly stressful of course it was a very small amount of sugar and also the the dyes that were used or have been shown to cause a little bit of an automatic response but you know we're going to publish that day it's not like because the blueberry Foundation funded this study you know you know it's the data is still the data is the data we didn't you know change anything so it's not always the case and again there's something very interesting here and like you said science always surprises you and always the things that you like it's something to predict it's completely the opposite and there's something always interesting they're always you know it's like as humans we think we know biology and were like oh this is going to be predicted to be that and all of a sudden it's complete opposite and you're like what's going on every time you come on the podcast though I'm reminded of the factor so much data it is impossible to keep it all in your head and it especially for

person we did dealing with all these different fields all these different different scientists working on all the different studies and it's almost impossible for one person to have all this data in their head yeah it is but it's interesting to me you know it's fascinating it's unbelievably fascinating but it's one of the reasons why boiling something down to a clickbait title of an article is so it's so enticing because it's like oh tell me high fat diet kills the - fuck that all right I'm dumb dumb going back to low fat vitamins vitamins give you that's gonna make a headline yeah yeah don't you think so hilarious yeah you have to dig into them when you're like wait a minute yeah yeah the the sugar industry study was from the 1950s and 1960s yeah probably pretty difficult to have something that biased and fraudulent today there was even another one that just came out recently like we talked about one last year but there was another one that came out another study I think it was published in like pnas or plus one of those two showing that

they suppress data that that refined sugar played a role in cancer and in heart disease so so in this was the 70s I believe so there's more than one you know study that have now linked them to basically holding back data being published you know so they're they're one that's definitely I would say pretty bad I had someone send me some review articles that were basically stating that refined sugar was not bad and the review articles were funded by the sugar foundation and I was like oh this is the one I usually don't say this like I usually don't say that like you know based on who funds the study like just the conflicts of interest you know disclosures but this is the one time where it's like you know the sugar Foundation there's notoriously bad and which also contrary to everything else has been established right when you understand it's like when you look at like I said all those things the mechanism and you look at the interaction between foods and how the bodies that you know processing

things and you will get the observational data and controlled trials I mean you know how many things can you say you know no two I mean where you just you now just looking at one thing there you know that's not as strong but you know looking at all of it is the big picture and just so much money and sugar so many things have sugar in them I mean what we've allowed to have done in this country is literally allowed this one thing this one substance to be in me what percentage of our food do you think has sugar in it yeah well I mean if you go to a restaurant or you go to get some condiments or food yeah I mean those things there's there's it slipped and everywhere like Thai food or you know it's like you go and say oh this tastes sweet like sugar right yeah it's got sugar in it you know so it's certainly but that's almost acceptable it's like I get what you're doing trying to make something taste delicious because you're an artist all right you're cooking a meal and this meal is not

Tricia's it's all supposed supposed to be a delight to the senses right that I kind of get you know but what I don't get is that it's permeated our entire diet the average American diet it's an instant everything it's in the drinks we drink it's in the foods we eat it's in the bread that you consume its in the pasta it's in the spaghetti sauce it's in mean it's in everything it's if you go down the the aisle at a supermarket and just grab a random can thing grab it turn it you're going to reach sugar it's just it's you're going to see it much more often than you're not going to see it right stunning yeah I know that happened to me not long ago when like sent down to the store to get some like some kind of like I was wanting some Worcestershire sauce like for my steak for some reason I was like why having a nostalgic thing I was like wait a minute no I can't eat this sugar in it yeah yeah Worcestershire sauce tastes like shit

positive sugar because it take more tastes more like shit if it didn't it it for whatever you know it's something I ate as like a girl and I had this craving for it and she knows a kid too it was like more common we were young I think so because it's really you know it's not as common anymore no you never even hear about it my kids don't even know what it is yeah my kid loves Cholula it's probably got sugar in it right I don't know if that one does actually I think about that might be one of the better than does my seven-year-old fucking loves Cholula she puts it in everything she put it in milk would tell her stop doing that road he's so gross

she thinks it's hilarious she'll squirt it right in her tongue so the shake it right our tongue She loves it doesn't know sugar beautiful great yeah I got some mouth bad in it probably get some weird red dye it's probably not even really read probably Brown I think if people are going to eat sugar though the one thing they should do is eat it within a certain time window what's in there nothing sodium are Goldwater Peppers salt vinegar and xantham that's like a gum oh yes Anthem gum spices uh doesn't seem that bad but yeah I don't think xantham comes up at some of the other emulsifiers have been shown to also disrupt my final course Very Yeah by okay that's tough those little yogurt things the kids drink those things I don't know but it sounds familiar like yogurty thing that a kids would drink yes got a little sugar probably some sure it does it taste sweet but it's got its was like got some sort of probiotic and it for kids do you like limit yeah

as bio kids which they take regular by okay they take that stuff hundred percent probiotic 0% yogurt okay so it doesn't have any lactose but look what's in there does it have an ingredients thing more where's the sugar bitch I know you can sugar like apple F ingredients like on every page I never sent probiotic come on what's in there what's in there you fuckers doesn't say

does it say ingredients they're hiding it from you it's sweet man I'm telling you it's I just have a hard time believing there's no sugar in there well the other thing with those probiotic supplement admit things is that like the amount of probiotics in them are like minimal right like yeah I mean my kid likes kimchi really yeah the one that puts the show he's a freak sugar 9 grams like you grams in those little things you know my both my youngest kids are a combination of me it's very weird you know like there's traits like the the seven-year-old it's way funnier she's hilariously she's like purposely funny that's so cool but the nine-year-old is just psychotic she's like she'll do things like we went to a resort once on vacation and she does cheerleading and gymnastics is really in a gymnastics she did cartwheels a half mile home we had a walk like a whole mile she did cartwheels in

our way back that's crazy psycho yeah she's straight up psycho this is really driven oh she's crazy she's got a six-pack she's not your really driven yeah it's sad the nine-year-old I'm like you're fucked kid she's a six-pack peanut I'll show you I'll show you later wow it's disturbing yeah like I mean like ripped like I would get dizzy she's everything it's not like she's like you know anorexic or anything she just exercises constantly the early life exercise is important to oh yeah yeah they do MMA they do karate both of them - yeah there are two martial arts got one of them in Jiu-Jitsu I'm trying to do expose them to like different like different things to see what they like yeah it seems like gymnastics is our big one they kids little girls love other things were other little girls are also being active you know some gymnastics is a good one because you know they're all doing their tumbling and there I did that when I was yeah I think it's really good for body control to and I was like talking to her like she likes Jiu-Jitsu and she likes

gymnastics too and I said well they really help each other because your Jiu-Jitsu will benefit greatly from your body control that you get from gymnastics like the ability to move your body like do backflips and flexibility stands and it's just all so just the the balance and right debility just the dexterity that you get I totally agree I write I started ice skating when I was really young two and a half my mom well that's right when I was two and a half yeah so I started I think I was two and a half and that also is like a lot of balance and were very you know similar to like ballet to her just graceful sort of things and it really I think helped me with a variety of other sports I did later you know as a surfing my surfing was you know a lot more graceful dance like you still serve I didn't I haven't served since pre-pregnancy yeah I would worry about shark your mommy now I am I haven't eaten getting more concerned about sharks I forgot what those things the last thing there is something I am yeah I'm getting a lot more worried about

did you see that video of the guy who was swimming he was underwater scuba diving and the shark came from behind him and bumped him in the head is enormous show but you showed me the surfer one that freaked me out all the one we go surfing yeah that's right next to him there's so freaking and all it takes is I mean they're eating machines yeah it takes is one look at this guy's only water check this out boom play that again because it didn't is that a great white that thing's huge it is look oh he opens his mouth it hit him in the head I mean nothing easily to the point where is this somewhere you shouldn't go

that's the carry fuck that could you do like snorkeling or anything I didn't know I was terrified where did this one cool thing where we were on the Big Island last year and they take you out to where the Dolphins are they like find schools of dolphins and they when the Dolphins are in the area they'll take you out on the boat they find out where the Dolphins are this bottom and then you jump in the water and you snorkel with the dolphins yeah it was amazing today where they like friendly they come up to you don't give a fuck about you that's so are there dolphins are like really smart yeah well they're they're wild dolphins are not like SeaWorld yeah like why do I care what you meant and even know what you're saying I don't know what you're doing why are you wearing a watch like this don't want anything to do with you why you monitor your heart rate that is avoid you but it's just it's a crazy feeling just to be in the literally the middle of the ocean miles from the water or miles from the shore rather and you're just looking down and you see the vastness of it all I think it's in a lot of ways

there's a reason why Beach communities are kind of cool they're like peaceful they're very mellow I think part of it is because you're humbled by this gigantic body of water that's in your face every day I think it's it's akin to staring up at the stars there's just something something about the vastness of the ocean that's so undeniable you're in significance in the greater scheme of things is so undeniable that I think it shows people out whereas I think cities make people like more like I had a fucking get over there as just cause you're in my way get out of my way bitch it's like yeah you're you're too much of an important factor in your immediate world I think that's why I was really drawn to surfing in the first place is because I'm a really go go go go kind of go get her constantly constantly next what's next I'm thinking yeah and and being out in the water was the one place that I would put all that behind and I would chill you know and

I felt really good just sitting on my board and and having the water of course I wasn't thinking about the Sharks but just having the water you know on me and just sitting out there and watching the waves and you know it's certainly there is definitely a very chilling factor to it and and for sure humbling yeah oh my goodness like I still am like terrified like on a big day going out because the the ocean just really scary like I said from the sharks like waves are freaking scary the power of them to marry around oh yeah I've had I mean I've had some scary it's kind of amazing I get back in after that but yeah but where it's so powerful I mean you know where she's slamming you down you're doing donuts and you're like which way is up oh my God you know I can't I can't even imagine and some of those crazy people that get they get dragged out on a boat all the way out and telling your max Cohen yeah they get towed in and then they just jump on those waves that are a hundred feet high I like I like my I get sweaty hands when I

videos of that because I know the power of the wave and I'm like they're insane how can it's like huge like just because some of them do you know end up in the whitewash and it's like how powerful that must be I'm friend Shane Dorian he's one of those world record holder Champion type Big Wave Surfer Dudes and I've seen some videos of him doing it it's just it's I don't understand he's lat he laughs about it when you bring it up it's just what he does but it's just I've seen videos of him doing it what is this is this him yeah I hear ghosts Jesus Christ Jaws to look at like come on I go bow hunting with that dude went oh really yeah and Hawaii went to Lanai we bow hunting but look at this look how how big those waves are and he's right so he came up out of that that's so crazy if that came down on you you're dealing with what a million pounds of water Haven the faceplate how like I want to know how they like survived

stuff because they don't come down on them well I just think this is how he lives his life he loves it I mean I think he's been doing this for a long time and it's just a natural part of life to him he lives on the big island make that wave is this insane it's been totally insane see this he's lapping to clapping in the middle of it it's like he's obviously having a great old time fuck that for sure I mean I like surfing but I wouldn't do that yeah and the Sharks to I mean the big island like you always hear about people get bit by a shark specially tiger sharks is that where Bethany Hamilton the one that the girl that like lost her arm was she in Hawaii I believe so I believe so yeah that how about that the little kid loses her arm she's like well I got another one he kept back there is crazy it just shows you how awesome surfing was babe it

not for me I wouldn't be that awesome for me either and I haven't gone back out I mean I'm just I can only like I've got so much time in the day to like work out yeah and you're like I need to get the biggest bang for my buck yeah so you're back running now I'm actually haven't I haven't gone back running I'm planning on it like what are you doing for actually doing the high-intensity all those spins stuff so you got continued that ghani months your son you said is five hits four months four months old yeah so yeah so yeah how long do you going to give yourself before you try to start running and I think after the holidays I'm going to do it yeah what about things like CrossFit or something like that well I only have so much time I don't think the organized I like the spin and like I said it's not like your dance he's been I tried that I didn't like that you do a lot of weight lifting type exercise I need to do more I have like I do it I don't have a gym membership anymore so I have like weights and I'll do it like you know at my place but I haven't been doing as much of the strength training as I should because that's also extremely beneficial

I shall and you know bone density it's big one yeah so density also just muscle mass I mean like there's been studies showing that people that do strength training like they have a 23% lower all-cause mortality in like a 30% lower cancer related mortality independent of any other like you know Health factors like obesity and all that stuff so you know the muscle mass is another thing that's really important in fact there was also another interesting study showing that like people that had leg strength like their leg strength was correlated to like massive improvements in cognitive function legs we're not arms but only the leg so that they're you know various various different exercises were done like hand grip strength and all that but it was leg strength specifically I don't know if it's like something blood flow something about your how strong your legs are is somehow somehow indicative of blood flow to the brain or that's real so dudes who do squats or Geniuses if you know anybody does a lot of squats go to them so I do I do air squats advice

the body weight squats yeah yeah do those and like you know because you do the Hindu style ones where you come up on the ball of your foot you know what those are do you kind of jump as well like no no like burpees do squats you you you I could do it for you real quick essentially you start off like this and then as you go down your heels come up off the ground like this and then your hand touches the floor and then you come up and what it really does is it works the quadriceps really well around the knees and a lot of people find it to be an excellent stability exercise and they're called what are they called Hindu squats I hear this guy's gonna do it this one see how he's going up on his heels this is like part of it you drop down your heels come up and then as you press up he's not he's not dropping his heels as he comes up which I think is weird he's I think he's doing kind of a variation on Hindu squats because his heels are never coming down he's also wearing raised heel shoes which I don't agree with

Heels come all the way down when you come up yeah yeah once you go buy it heals go all the way down see if you can find someone who's like I just don't those shoes are not those aren't wise those shoes were invented those kind of shoes are those are running shoes that are invented back when Nike came up with them where you land on the heel instead of landing on the ball of the foot which is the way your foot is naturally supposed to absorb shock you know not you know I'm sure you know about all that wear Nike sort of changed the gate no nope Nike literally change the way people run they put this big fat heel and the back of your sneaker and people started running on the heel instead of running on the ball of the foot when you land on the ball of your foot your foot is a natural shock absorber right and what they did was made people run with their heel first wait they're not afraid it's not good it's terrible for your knees it's terrible for a lot of things and people develop all sorts of issues relation with running long distances and knee problems because I'm sure yeah I used to be a jump roper I was a professional jump roper when I know

professional jump roper I want to get paid well we got we were sponsored by like the American Heart Association really we had like donations and stuff but yeah so I started jumping rope it was called the international rope skipping organization at that time both hilarious I think it's called like the universal Universal rope skipping organization now but I was I would compete so we'd go you know every year and compete with other teams from around the world I would travel to other places other parts of the US and set up do demonstrations in schools instead of teams anyways I was really good and I can still jump rope like I could do if you have next like next time I see you like jump like if you have a jump rope or if I can remember to bring one like I'll bring one for you next time next I'm going to do two things you got to try out the Tank come here early we'll set you up with the isolation tank will do a sauna we should do a podcast that would be awesome we're going to start doing that because we have the sauna here we're going to do little podcast now you going to blast the heat yeah the heat with the recording equipment and stuff but see if it breaks I just I just

there's more new interesting stuff on the sauna like that I would love to talk to you about like new studies coming out and so next one next all right schedule a couple months from now and then a jump rope yeah so jump rope but jumping on the balls of your feet that was the point I was going to say if you jumped on the heels of was awful it was like sound of Mannie be terrible but you when you look at a running shoe you think of an average running shoe the average running shoe has a lifted heel now people are understanding that this is negative and this is bad for you so you see what are called zero drop shoes like the Vibram so that's okay yeah those are Minimalist Shoes that's where I run in I run in either Vibrams I run in those I have some Merrill's that I run into and what they're essentially they have a wide toe box so your toes splay out and there's almost no padding this very little pad and tries to beat it be rooms before it's just enough of a hardcover to keep you from getting cut from like rocks and stuff so the problem for me is I when I tried them out I was running on hard concrete it

like I was running around this Lake because I lived in Oakland at the time and so I didn't really like it when you're running on the heels of your feet now all your balls yeah suspect too much it was too much because the concrete so but I think even that is okay if you build up to build up yeah but you but you develop your foot strength changes radically so maybe I'll get some again and try you got to go slow the beach running is probably a lot easier to yeah I run the beach in those when I'm on vacation I run with minimal shoes but when you're doing it you have to build up to it because you can get plantar fasciitis where you start really destroying really automate your feet okay very common so what do you mean like juice don't run as long distance or something take your time yeah they like the Vibrams they got in trouble because they were telling people that their shoes can prevent injury and and strengthen your feet which they can but it takes a long time so what would happen is people would say oh I'm gonna use these shoes going to prevent injury fuck I'm injured because

would they are your feet are weak the idea is that your feet and regular shoes are essentially like in a cast this is what your feet are like you're relying on the structure of the shoe it's tightening up around your foot you have a nice fat cushion of the bottom of it and you're using minimum musculature of your toes and all the different you know feet that you're not articulating everything as individual joints and pushing with all the muscles and so when you switch from a thick fat running shoe to like a Vibrams five finger this is a there's definitely a adaptation curve and you have to be careful with it I certainly think because when I was doing it I was running long distances like I just I didn't he's into it at all either and I was doing on concrete my friend Neal Brennan got plantar fasciitis from running on a treadmill

in with Vibrams yeah wow bey's clink I was running on treadmills is a lot to see I'm just kidding I'd say that to him but yeah he just got too crazy with it he's kind of obsessive person he got into it he's like oh this is the thing I'm going to do this now I ran a few miles and he blew himself out like right away he fucked up his feet because that can you reverse that yes yeah it takes a while to heal though it's a very painful I know quite a few people that have gotten plantar fasciitis and you know you get out of bed you could barely walk I think my mother know how to yeah it's rough yeah it's rough so I luckily I've done martial arts my whole life's Are My People my feet are pretty strong but I noticed a big difference between running with minimal minimalistic shoes I mean just my feet just feel stronger they just they feel different and they feel different when I'm walking around my arches raised up I've always had flat feet my arches have actually gotten higher and like my just the overall dexterity of my feet one place where I really feel it

in yoga notice a big difference in yoga I have just more foot strength I'm going to try out the rooms again throughout my other ones but my feet are like bigger now after pregnancy so that's funny like it stretches your feet out but didn't time maybe it's like you know what maybe it's akin to weightlifting right because you're thinking about it you have all this extra weight in your body you're carrying around your feet and your hips and right yeah you definitely have a lot of extra weight meaning it became like the I mean were you pound vest on your back and you did a lot of exercises with that 40-pound best your bones are going to get more dense right yeah I would like to know I mean I know I know certainly my feet were bigger during pregnancy because of the swelling and stuff but but I'm four months out and my feet are definitely bigger are they longer wider their wider their provider there but yeah but you have more meat in your foot yeah they're wider and I was shocked I couldn't like this a pair of shoes that I'm supposed to fit didn't fit and it was I was like you know it was too narrow I bet that

only makes sense I mean think about how much weight did you gain a lot of ask cows that I so I actually walked on the weight so I'm allowed to ask I've lost a lot most of it but I still you know there's there's this little more tummy but my God was I beg it's crazy it's amazing that we bounce back I gained probably more I get they say like 30 pounds I gained the close to 50 I know women gain 80 but I was eating all healthy foods I started out very thin maybe an end that so I was talking to my OBGYN about that and he was telling me that really because I didn't like look obese or anything it wasn't it was just I start when you start off with a starting point your body wants you to gain a certain amount of weight sure and so my body wanted me to gain 50 pounds and I had an eight pound 10 ounce boy and we'll just think about 50 pounds on your back for nine months of course your feet are going to get bigger

they're going to be stronger yeah it was you know there's an interesting study showing the V-Max actually improve vo2max improves after a pregnancy sure make sense like aeronautical baby it's kind of like training and I have a booth or whatever I have this thing is called the company called Outdoorsman's they make a pact that's designed to condition people for backpack hunting when you go you carry everything you carry your entire camp on your back so you carry your you know sleeping bag of jetboil one of those tanks that you cook on you carry all of your equipment you carry everything links weight is in your food I mean you could carry as much when you when you wearing a backpack and you're going into Camp you could carry as much as 70 80 pounds on your back so what they do this company called Outdoorsman's they make a pact frame that has an Olympic plate bolt on the back of it we slide olympic plates on it and you clamp them down so you have like a like literally an Olympic weight on your back you can put

45-pound plate or a 90 pound plate and you do you hike to condition yourself so that they have the right posture and your building the right muscles and exactly yeah it's one of the best ways waited pack exercises is one of the best ways to prepare yourself for that was really one of the only ways because you're dealing with many many miles of hiking yeah that's kind of cool because I've I've often like I haven't really ever done any like big camping like that you know I'm always like go for a hike of the day come back go to the cabin you know it's wrong be kind of fun to do that like where you hike many miles in and you stick up a camp and yeah you know so but I thought like how am I going to carry all that stuff it's grueling yeah I can imagine like there's no way I could do that much but well when some people do it if they're only going to go for a few days they can get it down to as little as 40 pounds you know some people are super minimalist like my friend Adam he does it for many stretches at a time and he'll do like 28 days in the bush by himself he lives in Australia he's done in Montana

any he did it in documented at all on his Instagram story but he's so extreme he cuts his toothbrush in half like he only has the wow Cuts weight in so many different places that the handle of his toothbrush she cuts off so he's brushing his teeth would like the little beginning the end part of a toothbrush which I think is just stupid like how much weight are you saving a moment's ridiculous put give yourself a real toothbrushes psycho but these people are really concentrated on you know making things as minimal as possible bringing his little gear as possible and just getting all dialed in you have to kind of figure out how much water you need how much food you need most of the time they map out they'll use like Google Earth and map out where the Natural Springs are and try to figure out how much water they have to bring with them and how much they can get from these sources and so then they have to have either a steripen or some sort of filtration system to clean out the water to make sure that they don't get you know there's there yeah yeah what's the

longest amount of time that you've done like one of these camping's I've never done it where they did it like that where I carried my camp on my back and I lived out there for with the only time I've ever done it is with a group of guys and we've camp for a week in Montana but we brought everything in on canoes so we had all these supplies we brought him in on boats we got out we staked our tents and we had food with us just you know but I know a lot of guys do it and they don't bring much food they just try to live off the land they try to get successful quick with the hunting and then Theory that's crazy yeah but it's the added challenge of it you know but the weight but the point being that waited backpacks or an excellent cardiovascular exercise so to me just make excessive being pregnant yeah make your feet stronger increase your via to my did a lot of walking like four miles a day you know and I thought I was doing a great thing but there's this girl there's this woman in my spin class and she's like kicking ass and she's about to have this baby

any day and she's there bike it away and jeez yeah some people get crazy with it is real tiny like I mean I look back at pictures of me and I'm like I can't believe I like bounce back from that because it's just like I'm just so enormous you know it's crazy it's incredible the whole thing is incredible you think going to do it again or you want it done I think I might be one and done I don't know for sure but you know it some time to think the only four months old I got the time to thank right I mean like I've got pressure like my my half-sister and like other people like okay you gotta wait here you gotta get pregnant again I'm like down you don't have to do anything crazy it's okay that one kid I kind of I've kind of I'm kind of just so in love with him and I'm like I don't want to share my love you know but I know what Gavin kids like my kids are two years apart the youngest ones and when they hang out together it's just amazing you watch them hug each other and they play games together and you know there's like little sibling rivalries there's always going to be but

but there's something magical about having a sibling you know I grew up the sister is one year younger than me yeah brother who's 4 years younger than me yeah it's it's I don't know it's a something to it but you know it's also something to have a one kid and give him a lot of attention I don't and being able to do other things too like science So speaking of science tell people where they can listen to your podcast and contribute to your research because you you have you have you were saying you have what is the page where people can yeah that's it there it's a patron and also we have a direct subscribership or people can if they want me to continue to do the podcast but put out you know articles so my podcast is on iTunes it's called found my fitness but you can go to my website called found my fitness.com and there's now episode Pages we have were I'm starting to now put a lot of information to and found my Fitness on Instagram or Twitter and they're all

episodes yeah so here's the episodes and if you click on one there's like a summary and a trinity sometimes we're getting transcripts now so I'm going to put a lot more information there as well and so people are contributing money whatever they can they can do it one time or like a 1/5 $10 a month some people do more than that and it's really cool it really has been a lot of fun and I enjoy it like like it's just I love it well you're awesome at it and you're awesome at this to I mean it's ridiculous you haven't looked at notes once all this shit is all from the top of your head for people that are listening this she's not reading off of anything she just rattling this off it's very humbling thank you so thanks for doing this and next time we'll do the tank do the sauna we try to do a podcast who's gonna hold you to that okay let's do it we're do it bro you gotta see the just gonna jump right we'll do it okay thank you so much thanks Rhonda Patrick ladies and gentlemen

thanks everybody for tuning in to the podcast and thank you to Squarespace go to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to launch use the offer code Joe to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain and thank you also to zip recruited to try out zip recruiter for free that's right motherfuckers you can post jobs unzip recruiter for free just go to zipper Cooter.com forward slash Rogan that's how confident is it recruiter is they know they're the shit so they'll let you try for free they like head baby give it a try that's not crack dealers work right Jamie zip recruiter.com forward slash Rogan for free

that's the end of this day but tomorrow we have the Great and Powerful Brett Weinstein no Weinstein Weinstein is Harvey I don't want to get them confused Brett Weinstein will be here tomorrow he has been on the podcast a couple times in the past but now he's coming back he is the professor who was in a row like well I never used that word in real life that way he was in a row a dispute with Evergreen College you may have heard the story but what happened was the social justice warriors on campus decided that they wanted a day we're all white people were forced to stay home

and he's like hey that's racist and they went crazy and a lot of chaos ensued if you're curious about that story I urge you to Google it and I urge you to listen to the first podcast that we we did with him because it was during the middle of all that chaos and it was pretty fucking crazy that's been resolved he got

paid they had to give him half million dollars whoops and

I don't know what he's doing with it I hope he comes in covered in diamonds and gold chains and Furs and shit and I hope he's got one of them Paul Wall grills on

I hope he pulls up in a limousine I hope they roll in and Escalade and they lay out a red carpet throw rose petals at his feet but I think he's probably gonna be wearing like Birkenstocks or something he's a super Lefty Progressive that what was interesting about the Evergreen College thing is like this guy could not be any more Progressive he could not be any more open-minded non-racist he's just a beautiful person and what they did was really wrong and I think most people who saw the story outside of the college agreed and now ever being colleges in the turmoil they just there was a woman who was also a part of that who was a professor

who had been accused of making some racist statements herself against white people and she's now been released and they had to pay her to and college is just sin chaos but we're not going to be talking too much about that will probably talk a little bit about it but really what we're going to be talking about tomorrow is Brett Weinstein has some ideas about how to how to fix the world how do pull ourselves out of this Quagmire we find ourselves in and he's just a brilliant really interesting very very very insightful man so I'm super excited about that that'll be tomorrow okay and we'll probably do an MMA podcast module I got to get some work on all right thanks everybody appreciate the fuck out of you and I'll see you soon