#1474 - Dr. Rhonda Patrick

May 14, 2020

Dr. Rhonda Patrick is a Ph.D in biomedical science and expert on nutritional health. Her podcasts and other videos can be found at http://FoundMyFitness.com

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my guest today is a treasure one of the smartest human beings I've ever met she's amazing and it's always a treat to have her on the podcast I really wanted to talk to her about what people can do in during this pandemic to boost your immune system and manned we get some good stuff really valuable valuable information I love her to death please give it up for the Great and Powerful dr. Rhonda Patrick

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I got check it out The Joe Rogan Experience trained by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day

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well we saying you suck no it's not that embarrassing yes you get guys like sometimes when I get nervous my I will start watering like I don't think that's odd again that's probably pretty normal I mean your systems fired up and you know you guys are probably trying to clear themselves right maybe you know I mean I'm just speculating maybe here maybe people will message me after this this podcast and be like that happens to me too and I'll feel better like I'm sure it doesn't

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that odd that's not certainly not embarrassing so I don't know why I'm embarrassed by eyes watering if you're nervous thanks for being here really appreciate it I am super I'm always happy to come well we've been talking and we've been talking about immune systems and this is one of the main things that I wanted to talk to you about like one of those trick is this all we're hearing is shelter in place where our masks don't touch anybody don't go outside we're not hearing what can you do to strengthen your immune system and I think that as a

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a public health Public Service you know Health thing this is a one of the most important things that I think you can really focus and concentrate on and an actual thing that you could be proactive about during this weird time yeah well definitely I think focusing on on you know lifestyle factors that you can you know possibly modulate your immune system and strengthen it is important what's interesting is that the immune system

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you know after doing just so much of course the past like couple of months that I've been nothing but like reading about the immune system and trying to understand of course this new virus ours Cove to but I've just learned so much you know a lot the past couple of months I'm not an immunologist and not an infectious disease expert so you know while I've had some training in ecology I definitely you know didn't know don't know everything there is to know but what just you know doing some reading about like why are people's immune

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I'm so different like that's that's the big thing like when you take like a young population as you get older your immune system does decline I mean there's lots of changes that occur but like in general like people have different immune systems and what's interesting is that there's been tons of like genetic studies done on like you know identical twins and they're followed over time and what's found is that genetics is not the major regulator of immune function it's something in the environment and what this is what surprised me and I know it's not totally at going to answer your

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Action Bible we can totally get to that but the main one of the main things besides age that regulates the immune system is like previous exposure to viruses like so I thought that was really interesting and in particular one one virus the cytomegalovirus CMV did you know like between 50 to 80 percent of the u.s. population has it like least by the time they're like an adult has it permanently or has caught it it's a it's a herpes virus so it's a lifelong thing and this is why it basically

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so it changes your immune system what are the symptoms of it most people that are healthy don't ever know they have it because there's no symptoms wow yeah unless you're immunocompromised but most people that are healthy they don't know you know that they're infected with it and said say it again what does it go cytomegalovirus it's CMV sounds like something Godzilla fights there it is so when so intrigued but here's the interesting thing about this virus is that it so this is one of the major things multiple Studies have been looking at like you know just

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in variability and it's like CMV has been identified in multiple studies and the think that the reason it got me interested because I was like 80 almost 80% mean I could have it right right I totally have it and it changes the immune function it's totally different between young and old so so when you're younger and if you have it it actually enhances immune function so they've done studies where like they have given people influenza vaccine and oftentimes these vaccine studies are used to kind of test the immune response

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on Sand like how your how robust your immune responses because you're given a vaccine and there's all different types of vaccines you know pieces of an antigen or all different types of you know ways that you can you can expose someone to bacteria or virus but you have a response to it and the response is a you know involves your adaptive immunity you making what's called neutralizing antibodies that you know basically eventually bind to the virus and neutralize it prevent it prevented from entering the cell so people would that have

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CMB their young have a really robust response the to the vaccine much better but older people have the complete opposite where it's like you know delete Arius and the reason for that scientists think is because basically

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this virus it's stuck with you life long and kind of reactivates every few years and like every time it reactivates it kind of trains your T cells you know which are part of your immune system to become focused on that CMV and so as you get older your T Cell population becomes more focused on fighting that virus and less so on other viruses that you're exposed to but this virus doesn't have any symptoms both healthy people don't have any symptoms with it I know it's

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he like it's really weird so what I'm wondering and the reason I'm even like going here at and it has nothing to do with you know taking vitamin C or zinc and can talk about that stuff and vitamin D but I just thought it was so damn interesting because we hear all these stories in the news where you know some people are asymptomatic some people are you know than some people are just really getting you know hard-hit and these people let's say they're more age-matched right we know that elderly people are more prone to severe form but

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but it just made me think what if this you know previous previous viral exposure to something like CMV is is kind of like also kind of shaping people's immune responses in some way surely people are going to be looking looking at that but I just thought that was a really interesting thing to come across you know and then the other sort of on the same on the same law along the same lines as previous you know previous virus exposure is like something that really seems to be something that is a main regulator of how people

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like what how you're immune you know what your immune response is you know and so so you mean by how many times you've caught the flu how many times you've had whether you have your chicken to it you respond to it you know yeah I mean like you if you kept the flu is it going to not is it like a 3-day kind of thing or is it going to knock you out for two weeks kind of thing that's what I mean right so I mean if you if you get a sample like there's been these 0 surveys where they basically that just means they'll still get a sample of plasma and look for different

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these viral antibodies and they'll find at any given point a person has like antibodies against ten different viruses just randomly you know so you're constantly being exposed to viruses you know you're not always just don't succumb to them right you're not always getting sick and so you know like another really interesting kind of thing is like you know there's so the sarge Cove to virus is part of a family of coronavirus is called the beta coronavirus has so Clara scope-1 the the virus that was

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possible for the original Source outbreak in 2002 or something the mayor's one in the Middle East and then there's two different ones that are responsible for the common cold now coronavirus is are only responsible between like 15 to 30% of common cold cases so it's not like the common cold is the illness you get but there's lots of different viruses that can cause it but what's interesting is that there's been studies showing that these two beta coronavirus is that are responsible for some of the common cold cross-react

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with so there's one that cross-react with the sarge Cove one which has a very it's very the sequence is very homologous to tsarskoe few virus and it's also been shown that the czar's covid-19 antibodies against the starter scope one can neutralize the the common cold one so there's like cross immunity happening between these other viruses right and so there's been some Studies by the CDC on the on sarge Cove to where they found

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basically that people that are infected with SARS Cove to also boost their antibodies against the the common cold one so you know there's there's certainly I think a good hypothesis to be made that potentially you know one or two of these common cold viruses could antibodies you make against them could also somehow maybe maybe you know interact with the sarge Cove 2 by Iris potential neutralize it I mean that's a big open question that seems possible

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without we don't have an answer to that I think we will like there's large there's a large scale Ciro surveys being done I know at least three that think his name is dr. Michael Busch he's at UCSF he's like he's doing like really large surveys where they're there they're going to be analyzing Sierra from people from like you know blood donors and stuff and like following them over the course of several years to see you know just basically understand more so now what is the Spectrum

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listen if there's any sort of uniform speculation as to why when you hear about prisons where a lot of these prisoners I don't know if you've seen that there's a video going around where one prisoner had Sorrows Cove to covid-19 whatever and spitting into a cup and then passing it around to all these other inmates so they could all get it so that they get released so these because they're releasing people especially California which is so wacky they're releasing sex offenders and there's been some really

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a high-profile releases of these horrible people that should be in jail probably forever and they're releasing them it's like it it's really disturbing but what would cause other than something like that what would cause all these prisoners to not just be positive that makes sense but to all be asymptomatic is there any speculation as to why a lot of these large groups there was another one that was a meat packing plant where most of the people are asymptomatic as well I wasn't I wasn't aware of the meat

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can one being asymptomatic but the I did read about the one in prison and it was like blowing my mind like what's a percent like what's going on like that's insane it's kind of like you read these stories so so this is like there's one thing that it's important to keep in mind when we say asymptomatic like you know there's asymptomatic in like a person that never actually gets symptoms right and then there's asymptomatic so there was a study done at the CDC I don't know a month ago maybe a little more where they measured like they did it they did this nasal pharyngeal

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swab test in a nursing home 70-something people and 13 of them tested asymptomatic like they had no symptoms but they tested positive but then they went back a week later and 10 of those people had symptoms and 3re symptomatic so unless like there's another like if you test someone and they're asymptomatic at that time of testing they could be pre-symptomatic right in other words like you have to go back a week later and see if they have symptoms right because that that's really important so

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say even you know you know 60% were asymptomatic like I don't know if they went back and tested a week later if it was just like a single time right but that's what that's what this is what got me thinking about this whole thing was you know in the prisons and jails I mean they're in close quarters and there you got one virus that someone's exposed to and they all get it right so like what if there's I don't know the CMV you know percentage there but what if the coronavirus is are going around there what if what if you know some common cold coronavirus has gone around

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and and that you know those antibodies that they've made to neutralize that coronavirus beta coronavirus are somehow helping with the sarge Cove to like I would love to see that tested to know now they immunize people did vaccinate people when they're going to jail I was trying to figure that out as well because like the tuberculosis tuberculosis one of the types of vaccines they do for TB I think they do it in like Japan and some other countries where they've got a really low

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three and so they're kind of that's a test that's a clinical trial that's now going on where they're trying to test but I was trying to figure out if they're a vaccination is their dogs I would imagine it would be simple for them to do that you're entering into prison they just vaccinate you just to I couldn't come to an answer I was I was searching for that the other day I was trying to figure that out but I think that's also a really good I mean there's a ton of theories right right I mean it's just you could go on and on and on but the whole the thing that I just think that I would like to see more research and I'm just hoping you know

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that that CDC and other people are investigating these these other the cross and unity right like if there's if there's antibodies that you're making against another coronavirus beta coronavirus is in the same family as this Sergeant no one's had Sergeant one in the United States you know so like that one doesn't that that's not as relevant as but the common cold you know that's that's very common right so you know if 15 to 30% of the common cold is composed of coronavirus has we know at least two of those coronavirus are

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in the same family that have been identified to make at least in one case there's been neutralizing antibodies so there has been crossed immunity then you'd think why not test that like it's get some animal studies started on that you know you can have animal studies there was an article that I was reading yesterday that was saying that they're hoping that they found some antibodies in llamas that they're hoping they're going to be able to because it's Eva can find this because of these antibodies and llamas they

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they are hoping they can either transfer them to people or learn something about how these antibodies are created but llamas seem to be here it is llamas could be the key to fighting new coronavirus has research says make that larger

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it says it may sound bizarre to most but llamas could be the key to finding new coronavirus researchers from Belgium oh remember that's the big lady that I was showing you earlier she's a health lady and the United States published an article this week in the journal cell that highlights the potential use of llama antibodies to prevent covid-19 factions antibodies from a four year old Belgian llama named winter show promise in blocking coronavirus from infecting cells according to research from the University of Texas Austin

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the National Institutes of Health and the Ghent I say that Ghent GH e NT University studying earlier forms of the coronavirus is researchers have found an antibody in Winter that effectively attaches itself in neutralize Spike protein in tsar's Cove one and MERS Cove researchers believe the particular antibody which has been found in other llamas as well can be injected into an uninfected individual to protect them from getting infected with the new chronology Iris that's very interesting yeah

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yeah so there I think you know there's there's lots of avenues for you know Therapeutics in a you know in addition to like repurposing drugs monoclonal antibodies you know being able to basically identify antibodies that do neutralize our scope to virus whether they come from llamas or humans you know and basically identify the specific antibody that can bind to that Spike protein that you just mentioned which is that region it's known that the antibodies bind their neutralize its

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so the region that that is used to get inside of the cell so monoclonal antibodies I think are a really big you know possibility for a promising therapeutic because you can then I mean the problem is growing like large-scale manufacturing them right so like if you can identify these antibodies and then manufacture them you can inject them in people and then potentially get some protection the problem is is that that's not like it's going to be a short-lived protection like it's going to be it's not like you can

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it's not like a vaccine or your body is making its own antibodies and they're and they're more longer-lived you know but so in areas where people are getting exposed perhaps you could give it to them it would stop them from getting but how long we say short-lived we well we don't know I mean how so it's you know it's probably enough to like if you are a healthcare worker your first lined no healthcare no first responder people that are definitely like being exposed to large doses of the virus

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that that could be a promising area but also I think even just treating patients like that have already been infected you know so that's that's also another so like in combination with some of this other stuff like from Des of ear which is you know it's not like a silver bullet but it seems like it's also promising promising probably with combination of other other factors as well but yeah the monoclonal antibodies is a really I know there's like regeneron is a big company there they're growing some large-scale ones I think there's

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Zai they they isolated from humanized mice or something but there's other companies that have isolated and from humans that have been affected so you know that's that's definitely a promising area for sure and the a good thing about that is that have you heard of antibody dependent enhancement do you know so that's a big concern all right so so basically when you when your body is exposed to a pathogen like a virus your your innate immune system you know the

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line of defense like neutrophil things like that are making hydrogen peroxide trying to kill the virus but then in the background your adaptive immune system and I'm just totally generalizing is you know is is also working in the background and you know part of that and adaptive immune response is you know to produce antibodies so you have memory B cells that are making antibodies that are specific to bind different regions epitopes on the virus and neutralize them prevent them from getting inside of the cell and so that adaptive

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of immune system usually takes about seven days after you're exposed to the virus right the problem is antibody dependent enhancement so sometimes a neutralizing antibody is an antibody that can bind to the virus and neutralize it stop it from entering your cell right so your it's doing its job but you sometimes make antibodies that are non neutralizing or don't do as good of a job they don't bind us tight or something and then you can have what's called an antibody dependent enhancement

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this was like a big problem for the RSV vaccine back in the you know like most kids get RSV it's a respiratory tract infection the most kids get it by the time they're two like there's no vaccine that that are that's given back in the 60s there was this antibody dependent enhancement happened in some clinical studies with toddlers and some problems got really really sick and a couple died but what happens is basically the antibody binds to that there's a couple things antibody binds to the virus

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and can basically changes conformation and allow the virus to get into the cell better so they become like you know you get like a higher viral load and then you don't have antibodies to neutralize it and it just you know it could be more it could be it could lead to death the other thing that happens is the antibody binds to the virus doesn't neutralize it but it like makes this crazy immune complex that like activates your immune system to just go haywire and it causes all sorts of pathology and that's what happened with the RSV toddlers so there's a few viruses that this happens with and unfortunately

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run a virus is one like this has been identified with its large covid 1V Iris and I think marriage is well we're so this is also a problem with vaccines so like people like giving giving the vaccine people's immune response some people can have that antibody depending enhancement and that's what was shown to happen with these with the sarge covid one there was some non-human primate studies that did that and also animal studies as well so you know Mont the

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thing with monoclonal antibodies is there a little more specific because you know they neutralized and you're like growing them up like you've done all that test as opposed to just letting your immune system do its thing and then potentially you know you may have this like non neutralizing antibody that could cause problems but that's kind of the concern I know that the vaccine people that are working on vaccines are working on that means like they're concerned I mean about that and completely trying to like figure that all out it's such a strange virus it did it almost seems like there's multiple viruses

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our yeah so I mean there's and it's funny that because it's kind of connected to this antibody dependent enhancement there's there's been quite a few different like forms like mutations that have been identified but to particular in that Spike protein region that's like an important region because antibodies bind their and because that's the region like that you know the virus uses to get into the cell and so there's been there's been two major like strains that

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been identified and one of them so it's in Aspen the spike region and it's aspartate to Glide to glycine mutation and basically in Asia in China the the predominant form is the the aspartate the like original quote unquote form and then in Europe and also in North America this other this other form the glycine mutant is prominent and there's been studies that have shown looking at like okay looking in parts of Europe different countries in Europe that have this

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minute form that they're basically there's a higher mortality rate but they didn't actually measure infected patient so you know it's kind of like correlation but what's interesting is that there's there's actually been a genetic link to this meet this mutant so there's studies there's been some large-scale genetic genetic studies that have found that Asians about 20% of Asians have a basically a nucleotide change in a gene that encodes for a protein has that's involved in this you know basically

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in allowing this virus to get into the cell but that basically prevents them from having this mutant that's predominant in Europe and also in New York and in North America in general especially because my friend Michael who got it his mom who got who's in her 70s is Asian and shot is she kicked it in a day that is interesting so there's something so there there a wonder if she has that snip so we we are genetic report that we have like we've got one that's like a new viral ports of

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one we're kind of like putting some of these interesting Snips which don't mean anything I mean like you know just information that you know is interesting there's a lot of researchers out there trying to like figure out if genetics is involved in this but the thing that's so interesting about that mutation is that the it's in that Spike region and it's where the antibody binds and Peep and there's a there's like a theory going around because that specific region it's been shown in source code of one to cause antibody dependent enhancement so there's a theory that potentially that mutation is causing

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people's immune system to hyperactive a and basically become more active and it can be lead to a mortgage severe covid-19 illness that's not been shown like it's not been shown that also but it's interesting right it's interesting how in Asia and China particularly I mean about 1% of the population it's like less than 1% has the other mutation the the glycine mutation that's in New York it's in you know in most of the United States but that less than 1% of the population in

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have that form so weird and Japan has a very low mortality rate correct yeah they do I know that that was mentioned that TB vaccine that's one thing that they're investigating I mean there's all sorts of differences in handling the whole you know from the beginning just how you how you handle the virus mean I like there's there's too many factors to like say one thing but you know there's there's lots of there's lots of possibilities and I think that that I think

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at eventually there's going to be Therapeutics that are identified you know you know that multiple ones maybe and I think vitamin D is going to potentially play a role there but I mean just like things like room does if you're and you know monoclonal antibodies and then you eventually like you know a vaccine will you know eventually you know be be available but I think until that until that point I do think that things will be identified that just kind of helped us like deal with this like

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better you know what is the going on with blood types one of the things we talked about earlier you asked my blood type and I said O positive now why is O+ better well

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there's there's been some data and this was also with identified with source code one that people with type O blood they they make antibodies they make Taipei antibodies whereas people with type A blood they make antibodies against like they make against the B antigen and so the type A antibodies were identified so there's been studies looking at people with type O blood or type

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type A blood and also type B and type O blood there's like less less frequency of getting covid-19 so as opposed to having a severe form is just like you're less likely to contract it and it stopped because the Taipei antibodies that people with type O blood make neutralize the basically bind to that region that Spike region and neutralize the antibody and prevent it from the virus from entering the cell so that's at least that was the mechanism that was shown with

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scrub one so it's thought oh well the same we're seeing the same you know pattern where people with type O are protected from Sarge covid to possibly that's that's also why but another really interesting thing is that people with type O blood you we were also talking about these like blood clots and like I mean there's all kinds of crazy things you read I mean I'm reading all these Publications just and then the other thing is all these Publications are being uploaded on you know before their peer reviewed and I mean some of them are just a

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mess and it's just anyways but you know you kind of just take it with a grain of salt where these clots or like you know there's clots and people that are healthy and young certainly people that have severe cases people like older people people that are pre-existing conditions and stuff and the type O blood people have lower levels of this Von Willebrand factor which basically is involved in clotting and it's been shown that that Von Willebrand factor also

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isn't bought like is higher it's higher in people with carts our scope to it was shown also be that with sharks Cove one and it's involved with clotting so having lower levels May somehow even help protect against that's a theory it hasn't been shown but what is known is that people with type O blood are less susceptible to Contracting covid-19 that's that's definitely known

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but I mean I think there's so many things there's just there's so many factors that a lot of data that needs to be parsed out right for sure I mean a lot of data that needs to parse out a lot of data that needs to be generated and you know we need higher quality data we need you know you know people to repeat stuff I mean like look what's happened with this hydroxychloroquine stuff right I mean I mean it's just kind of a mess where initially it seemed like could be helpful and

► 00:37:04

and then just more and more studies came out where it was not not only not helpful it was you know toxic is causing people to have dangerous arrhythmias and stuff yeah you know so that's that's kind of the reason to kind of be cautious when when you have something new and a small one small study just seems like in the beginning at least they're trying to figure out what the correct treatment was for these people as they were just showing up in mass in the emergency rooms and they didn't really know and doctors they

► 00:37:33

varied in how they approached it my friend Michael his doctor didn't put him on a ventilator and he said if I put him on a ventilator he's probably going to die right because he said his body's going to stop working because it's gonna let the ventilator do the breathing for him and it's going to give up and what he was talking about after the fact what Michael was talking about was how that is proven to be correct in New York and that some monstrous number like 80% of the people that put on ventilators wind up dying not just in New York I like life had

► 00:38:04

is that our physicians that have like you know and New Orleans I mean the same thing where it's like you know there was someone on my team we were looking we were doing some research on this and I didn't sort of dive into the whole thing but he was he was telling me that ventilators do actually like cause more damage to the lungs and like like he'd been reading some studies to like confirm that and he was pretty certain that that ventilators actually cause damage and actually could like induced damage where it's like making

► 00:38:33

it worse so that's so bad I don't know I don't know all the specifics of that all I know is that it looking at the statistics like if you go on a ventilator I mean surely it seems like the outcomes not very doesn't seem like it's going to be very good right now and it's hard to say is that the cause of it or is it right you know where they just that they're so fucked up by the time they get on a ventilator they just wind up dying right well here at Lake the the there's been some really interesting data looking at like in the there so in the Philippines

► 00:39:04

and in Tunisia

► 00:39:06

where else nor I think New Orleans is well they've looked at patients that have died and their vitamin D levels and basically like in the Philippines you know people that for like every standard deviation increase in vitamin D levels serum vitamin D levels you know the people had like an 8% or Eightfold eight times less likely to have a severe form of covid-19 and if they had and they were 20 times less likely to have critical like critic critical form of

► 00:39:36

at 19 well in the in the that was the Philippines in the Indonesia was a really interesting study where like they measured vitamin D and this was measured in the patient's there's been some vitamin D studies also where they're like looking at you know countries that have been affected the worse and they all like have low vitamin D and it's like okay well anyways that's correlation but well so is this but a little it's a little stronger data the in the in Indonesia patients that died 90 about almost a hundred

► 00:40:06

it was like 98 point something percent of patients that died with covid-19 were vitamin D deficient

► 00:40:13

four percent of patients that died from covid-19 were vitamin D sufficient RC 4 percent only four percent were fighting vitamin D sufficient so basically they're all vitamin D deficient all the ones that are dying whoa crazy right and like New Orleans had some crazy crazy number be the mechanism that would cause the so I think there's all right can we cut can we get into Vitamin C please do it's a big I really think those of you I take 5,000 IU's a day awesome right now I'm taking

► 00:40:43

5,000 IU's a day you know seventy percent of the u.s. population has insufficient vitamin D levels which is considered less than blood levels less than 30 milligrams nanograms per milliliter this is something that your body can generate naturally if you're exposed to the sun on a daily basis yes that's the best way to get it it is but the problem is that we don't go outside anymore and you know we know yeah especially yeah exactly yeah now more than ever but women terrible

► 00:41:13

appear right vitamin D deficiency is what makes it worse and then you're staying inside its you're not getting any vitamin D yeah you're becoming even more deficient you know like 30 like someone like 28 percent of the u.s. population is actually diff ition like less than 20 nanograms per Mill you know like that's defined deficiency so there's a lot of people in the United States as you mentioned you make it from the Sun so particularly UVB radiation there's a reason why I want to talk about this you make it from UVB radiation exposure you know basically your

► 00:41:43

in the skin and but you know there's certain times of the year depending on where you live in a more Northern latitude where that UVB isn't even hitting the atmosphere we're not making vitamin D also if you have darker skin melanin protects you like the whole you know people with darker skin people from maybe Africa or India or South Asia there more equatorial Regions they're closer you know closer to to the equator and there's more UVB radiation throughout the year and so as a

► 00:42:13

of mechanism to not get burned you have melanin which protects you write the problem is that melanin also blocks your your ability to produce vitamin D but if you're out in the sun all the time you know in a place where you're getting UVB radiation it's not a problem well this is the very reason why people and places like Scotland and England have such pale skin exactly cloudy all the time so your body sort of develops its own ability to absorb more vitamins actly so what happens when you take some what what happens when

► 00:42:43

take a person from from South Asia from India from Africa and you put them in Sweden or in Minnesota or in the UK a place where UVB radiation doesn't hit most of the year and you don't give them a supplement what happens is they become severely vitamin D deficient severely and what happens when you take I mean you can throw this on the you can flip flip this over and say okay what happens when you take the guy from the UK the Brit and put them in Australia like without any sunscreen or without a hat on

► 00:43:14

they're gonna yeah so I mean do you think that this could be a factor in why so many African-Americans getting hit so hard so here's the thing so African-Americans are there's lots of all right African-Americans are in in the United States there's been studies African-Americans are severely deficient or 28 times more deficient in vitamin D than than Caucasians wow yeah and it's because it's because they have darker skin and you know if it's not getting enough Sun they're not getting enough sun because

► 00:43:43

people stay inside more people stay inside you know it's not it's not like the old days when we were out hunter gatherer and out in the sun all the time we're in her lap we're inside all the time were in school we're work in our office in our cubicle so the CDC you know obviously there's been studies showing that African-Americans are more hit but they didn't really correct for tons of like other factors because socioeconomic status is important hello other health factors you know and but there was a big study just released not long ago from from

► 00:44:13

like the national office of Statistics in Britain or something like that I don't know what their official name was but they released some statistics from England and Wales and the I don't know what the correct name to say I mean that the blacks they're basically living in England and in Wales are four times more likely to die of covid-19 than whites when they when they adjusted all that data for socioeconomic status and for other health factors there were

► 00:44:43

two times more likely to die so clearly socioeconomic status and other health factors are playing a role but there's something else unidentified and I think it's vitamin D I think that you know so you know the vitamin D like it hasn't looked vitamin I'm not saying that vitamin D is going to prevent you from getting covid-19 or it's a treatment although I am involved in a clinical study where we're going to be testing as very small Open Arms study we can talk about but you know I'm not a physician I'm a medical doctor I've never intubated anyone so don't

► 00:45:13

think I'm saying that I don't want people to think I'm saying it's a treatment I just want to it's a hypothesis that needs to be tested and thankfully there are clinical trials randomized control trials that are now ongoing and there are some that are recruiting but Justice statistics that you've already listed about vitamin D and the people that had covid-19 those are insane it's insane and also in Sweden there's a huge population of somalis that have migrated to Sweden and they have been identified as being severely vitamin D deficient

► 00:45:43

because a lot of the somalis have all their also like autism rates are really high there and there's this link between I published a link also between vitamin D and autism but so there's been studies looking at vitamin D levels in the Somali population I mean they are so deficient because you're taking again you're taking someone who's supposed to be who's you know evolved to be getting a lot of sun but not burn from it and then and then putting them in a place where they can't get any vitamin D from the Sun and if they don't get a supplement

► 00:46:14

like they're going to be deficient you know and they're so much more like they're like it's wreaking havoc in Sweden on this male population is so logical yeah it's it's it and then okay so elderly elderly are like insanely more deficient I forgot the exact number obese also the obese people are like three times more likely to be denied vitamin D deficient in the United States why is that because vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin and it's less it's been shown to be 50% less bioavailable so you have to roll after you make it in your

► 00:46:43

and it's stored in fat and you know it's released and when you know basically into the blood stream and then it can gets converted into a hormone this hormone regulates 5% more than five percent of the human protein encoded Human Genome it's a lot of that's a ho it's a hormone like can you imagine just walking around without testosterone you're a man that's a hormone I mean like because there's a lot of people that are deficient in vitamin D and it's a steroid hormone it gets converted into a hormone like this isn't just a vitamin you know it

► 00:47:13

it's important it's really important so I went off on a tangent but anyways what can I ask you this boy we're off on this tangent what is when you see what is happening to people when they are vitamin D like what's happening in the vitamin D deficient what is happening in the body that's causing their immune system this this hormone deficiency not having this vitamin d whether it's through sun exposure so there's lots of things I mean it plays a there's vitamin D receptors on like your immune cells

► 00:47:44

and the reason for that is because when the hormone vitamin D hormone binds to the receptor it activates all these genes and that the genes do stuff that are you know regulate immune function you know there's their studies that have shown people and I love these studies because because they basically take away people's complaints about you know there's lots of epidemiological studies showing that low vitamin D is associated with disease X Y or Z and everyone's like well you know they're out in this they're not in the Sun as much so they're not as healthy they're not as

► 00:48:13

physically active and not whatever even though those confounding factors are usually corrected for it salt at the end of the day it's an association right and everyone's like correlation is not causation which is true but sometimes you got to like look at the full body of data you know there are genetic polymorphism so there are people that have variations in genes that cause them to genetically have lower vitamin D and so this this is called mendelian randomization when you can take a person that's that has a genetic

► 00:48:43

like it's just they're genetically low vitamin D so you're not categorizing them based on their vitamin D levels your categorizing them based on their Gene and those people are more likely to die from respiratory infections just based on that Gene alone so yeah that Gene that it's known to lower it lowers by it leads to lower vitamin D levels and so like those people are more likely to die from respiratory infections than people that don't have that which it's a great way of kind of randomizing people by their genes as opposed to doing a randomized control trial those have been done as

► 00:49:13

well there was a study that was over 25 randomized controlled trials people that were given a vitamin D supplement varying doses either weekly or daily monthly didn't work there the people with low Baseline vitamin D level so people that were like deficient they were 50% less likely to have a respiratory tract infection if they were taking the vitamin D supplement over 50% actually and people that had already normal levels still had a protective effect there was little 10% less likely so even people that were already

► 00:49:43

considered normal taking it by a vitamin D supplement helped prevent the respiratory tract and can you take too much vitamin D yes you can you can look without too much so right so that the upper the tolerable upper intake has been set by the nutrition board The Institute of medicine to be 4,000 IU's a day but there's been studies that have shown that you can I mean people that have taken you know 10,000 IU's a day for for multiple years haven't had any hypercalcemia or had you know

► 00:50:13

no problems but too much vitamin D can be toxic it's not good to take that it's best to like get a vitamin D blood test and I think that personally there has been a trend so people that have blood levels higher than 60 may have just a little bit higher calcium level but not much not like it's not like anything to be hugely concerned about but there are studies also showing that either vitamin K1 so there's Ben

► 00:50:43

meta-analysis looking at 12 different studies I think we're vitamin K1 or vitamin K2 were given and both of those improved bone mineral density and prevented any hypercalcemia because when you take vitamin D you absorb calcium better like something crazy like 40% more dietary calcium is being absorbed wow so so the problem is that

► 00:51:05

calcium can easily form a precipitate in general and particularly when phosphorus is around and phosphorus is another thing vitamin D does increase the absorption of but again like I said you know it's really like it's really hard to find any studies where vitamin D is causing you know hypercalcemia unless it's like really really high dose for a while I personally think taking the vitamin K and what's interesting about the vitamin K1 vs vitamin K2

► 00:51:35

without going into too much of a tangent is basically the the vitamin K1 normally it goes to your liver and it's involved in blood coagulation but when there's enough vitamin K1 around it stays in the periphery and it moves calcium periphery being bloodstream it moves calcium out of the bloodstream and takes it to places where it's supposed to go like the bones and the muscle vitamin K2 usually stays around the periphery and doesn't really go to the liver so it usually that's usually what it's just doing is you know moving calcium out and bringing it to the bones and so I take a

► 00:52:05

I actually have K1 in my multi that I take but I also take a to supplement MK4 I take it like a couple times a week and what does your technique for K1 well the K ones in my multi so I don't care vitamin K1 is really it's found in dark leafy greens so I get a lot of those as well I owe a lot so I'm getting a lot of K1 vitamin K2 is not as it's not as readily found in like the Western I mean it's like the food that's highest in is that fermented soybean not oh but it's like small quantities

► 00:52:35

he's and like do you ever get concern from the high volume of leafy greens you have a good conservative oxalates or getting kidney stones or anything along those lines no like the few studies that I've seen and then people that I like doing and saying juicing and they're already like messed up you know so I'm not concerned at all like even like the oxalates oxalates actually I don't want to go into this book so yeah no I don't consider kids I want the vitamin D thing is so important something like the the

► 00:53:05

um the reason there's a big reason I think that vitamin D is so important it's for the lung function in the respiratory function but what's really interesting is that you know the very receptor that this cars covid to virus binds to to gain entry into the cell it's called a stew that very receptor plays a really important role in preventing lung damage and basically and preventing acute lung injury prevented

► 00:53:35

Ting acute respiratory distress syndrome ards and what's been shown with SARS Cove one is that casares code one also binds to that receptor a stew it's called and that's how it gets into the cell just like the sarge Cove to when it binds to the receptor it like attaches and like through this like weird Endo tensei ptosis mechanism it takes the receptor in and decreases the receptor what's called down regulates down regulates receptor so you end up having less a stew which causes like dip can cause severe lung injury

► 00:54:05

not having the ease to it plays a big role in protecting that's been shown to multiple studies like so the Stars Cove one virus does that it's thought the stars covid who also does it because it goes through the same enters through the same receptor and it's been shown that like if you for example if you give mice lipopolysaccharide or something that's going to cause lung injury and then you give them vitamin D so the lung injury itself also causes the H2 receptor to decrease and it so it's like this vicious cycle of like making the damage worse

► 00:54:35

worse but if you give my Spider-Man D before that happens the a stew receptor increases and it protects them from the lung injury well but you give vitamin D to control mice that don't have the lung injury it doesn't do anything to the Ace 2 receptor levels so it's not like full stop it's not like you know drugs the way drugs are designed as they like they target a certain molecule and they boom they like do their thing they either increase it or decrease it a lot of times with like hormones you know vitamins things like that there they

► 00:55:05

contain homeostasis you know what I mean like so when when shit goes wrong they fix it they're not just like boom. Gonna like increase something when everything's normal so and that's important because there have been some concerns about taking vitamin D increasing the H2 receptor and there's another study that was with hypertensive rats where the hypertension cause a stew to go down and that like makes lung it makes all sorts of problems it also causes like kidney problems and all sorts of things right but but the

► 00:55:35

vitamin D increase the a stew but only in the hypertensive rats not in the normal control rats again so you know and then there was another study that was like some other messed up diabetic animal model where the vitamin D actually didn't increase the H2 receptor but it increased what's called soluble a stew which is in like it's in the periphery and that actually potentially could bind Sarge Cove to buyers and prevent it from it's like sequestering it preventing it from entering the cell that's actually being explored as a potential therapeutic so

► 00:56:06

but the bottom line here is that sometimes you'll hear this H2 receptor and that's how the virus gets in and like I don't want that I want I want less of that because that's how the virus gets in but like like biology is always way more complicated than just a simple taking it out of a big picture right you know so like the ace to receptor the a stew is part of the renin-angiotensin system it plays a huge role in inflammation it's also like when you when you decrease a stew all these

► 00:56:36

signaling Cascades happen and it's like a stew is important for producing pro-inflammatory cytokines at the end of the day without getting into all the stuff you know specifics so it causes massive inflammation to have a decrease it get basically causes acute lung injury it exacerbates it I mean it's crazy so I really I just I really can you imagine if I mean do you really did help like if if there was something that could be given along with the other stuff from Desiree or whatever whatever it's going to be the stuff

► 00:57:05

if that we identify but like vitamin D so so cheap it's so easy and so many people are deficient and insufficient you know like so yes as you mentioned there is you know you don't want to take too much vitamin D you don't want to like you know overdose on it but I think in the short term you know particularly like in the short-term and particularly in patients protect people that have already been infected you know it maybe Y is 2 to try giving your patient like if you're a physician

► 00:57:35

and you know dealing with this may be wise to try and didn't see their vitamin D levels and perhaps give them some you know is this being explored Pub I mean is this something that people are talking about publicly because I all I'm hearing is drugs and possible drug remedies potential vaccine that they're working on the future I'm not hearing anything about methods nutrition that boosts your immune system this is one of the reasons why I really wanted to talk to you right now yeah let's definitely talk more there are

► 00:58:05

yes it is so there are clinical studies unfortunately not a ton of them in the United States that are looking randomized controlled trials looking at Vitamin D the effects of vitamin D on already you know patients with covid-19 which what would be great is like giving them to like First Responders or healthcare workers and seeing like how does it how does it what role does it play in prevention because that's really the easiest thing right I'm involved a friend of mine dr. Eric Gordon he's put together so I

► 00:58:36

with his help I've helped them design a open arm trial very small 40 patients where were where he is going to be giving them 50,000 I use every five days of vitamin D so it's like a weekly dose because a lot of times these people are severely deficient in so you want to give them a higher dose you know and and for you know doing doing 50,000 I use weekly isn't you know something that's necessarily going to be toxic or anything like that and then we're going to you know we're doing some other things

► 00:59:05

the three grams three times a day and then vitamin B1 good talk about that Simon as well but so yeah there are I think there's like open-label tribal open-label trials or just kind of a star it's like if you see something plus we're doing like kitchen sink right we got this this and this and this so I think vitamin D really is the is the star you know I think that it potentially you know I think it really should be explored I think it has huge potential it has to be shown like this isn't something that people can just

► 00:59:35

you know take it home and think I'm protected like that is not the case we don't know that it has there's no data showing that but I think it has huge potential you know so how would one do a randomized control study on vitamin D and people that have covid-19 like it seems like well they're going to do an illustration to they're going to in addition to standard of care so it's basically whatever the standard of care is and that's that's what we know is happening at the hundred and Hospital in New Jersey but as you said it seems like what's really critical is getting it to people before

► 01:00:05

or they get it yeah I would love to see that study done yeah if anyone can do that study amazing that would because that would be like to meet get it to nurses get it First Responders yeah worker I just are you just get the information out there and have nurser nurses and First Responders take it I mean you know vitamin D is something again like seventy percent of the u.s. population has insufficient levels you know that is such a crazy number it is and it's generally safe to take like

► 01:00:35

like like 4,000 IU's a day it is taking five I am but for thousands of the top the what the they indicated as the tolerable upper intake so why do you take five I'm just taking five thousand right now because that's like the I could buy the five times like I don't want to take two pills of the mm well that's me too I got one pill it's five that right and like well so I had my my levels measured literally like I did went a lot to quest Quest Labs like a month before all this

► 01:01:05

lockdown happened so I got my data back pretty pretty recent and I still have our around 50 nanograms per mil even though before I was taking four thousand it didn't generally speaking one thousand I use will raise your blood levels by about five nanograms per Mill and there are people with different variations in genes that are related to vitamin D metabolism where they have lower levels and they need a higher dose the only way you're going to know that is by of course measuring your vitamin D levels multiple times and then potentially been doing like a genetic analysis you know as well but

► 01:01:35

but you have to measure your levels like that's the only way to know of course right now it's like you can't go to a laugh it's like hard to do any of that I mean the things that are like moronic yeah but right now when you need it but the vitamin D I mean I'm just so like I just I have so much I have high hopes for it you know and maybe maybe I'm a bit of an Enthusiast with it you know I do like I've studied vitamin D so much I've got two Publications on I certainly like you know so you know they take

► 01:02:05

with a grain of salt as well but I just think the data strong I really think the data I think it's mounting data and I think that eventually something will come out and it's going to just like the randomized controlled trials showing that it protects against respiratory tract infections first everyone was randomized control trials like no one wants to believe anything until it's around my schedule trial I'm just I'm amazed that the numbers of people that are deficient it's so stunning and when you point out the number people that are deficient it actually wind up having severe covid-19 problem

► 01:02:35

he's right yeah I know it's stunning like some of those numbers like The Missing Link it's like it's right there I think that's a really good hypothesis I do I think it's a really good hypothesis I want to believe it because it's easy it's safe and I think people need Vitamin D anyways I mean yeah you know so so of course I want to believe it you know but like there was an interesting study where African-Americans who are very deficient in vitamin D they were given a vitamin D supplement for like a month

► 01:03:06

and it decrease their epigenetic age by like two years I mean yeah so that's a worker month something like a month I think yeah in a month they decrease their epigenetic age by two years they don't hold me to the month maybe give me some month or two months but I think it was a month most most of these initial set of three months that's crazy most of these studies are about a month yeah so yeah by 1.8 year so what it's indicative of their suffering from this vitamin D deficiency this alleviates that suffering and then puts the body

► 01:03:35

homeostasis hormone yeah one moment it's changing five percent of the human genome that's a lot it's a lot the lat yeah it's crazy number when you think about it is and people was not it's not just a vitamin right yeah hormone super vitamin can you imagine it's like what happens when you go into menopause well you're not making your estrogen I mean stuff goes wrong I mean it's a hormones like estrogen estrogen hormone you know testosterone is a hormone the hormone you know it's well it's it's important

► 01:04:05

so you know so that's the if you have the dr. Rhonda Patrick pyramid of supplementation for preventive symptoms of covid-19 or preventative measures dealing with covid-19 that's your base that's number one I take vitamin D I certainly don't know if it's going to prevent covid-19 but I'm not hoping it does not take it hoping it was but I'm not even saying preventative I mean like keeping your body healthy if you totally overnight I mean my mom's I got

► 01:04:35

my mom my dad I got my whole family everyone's on the routine you know that vitamin D is like the most important so that's the foundation's vitamin D right now yeah I mean it's I'm always trying to get them to have that but like it's easier to convince when people are scared people are more likely to make change went like you can't like if something they have to be motivated to make the change themselves they're just otherwise it doesn't work you know so I think that in this case people are motivated especially people in my parents generation that are older because

► 01:05:06

they're more scared they're more scared that they could be affected by a severe you know case of this right so so I think that's the certainly you know the issue yeah I mentioned I'm drinking my vitamin C water it's funny because I probably got like a thousand questions about see in the past

► 01:05:29

month to month and a half or whatever and we kind of like my team and I just dove in and put together an article beliefs to podcast on it a video where we're just kind of covered everything I mean I can't believe how many studies I read on vitamin 290 references in our article the 28 page article on our website but vitamin C's interesting to I mean I don't certainly

► 01:05:57

the interesting thing about vitamin C is you know there there's oral and then there's intravenous vitamin C and the intravenous vitamin C is what's what's seems to be really relevant right now but I think the most interesting thing that I learned really had to do with the pharmacokinetics which is basically like how much vitamin C raises your plasma levels and like is you know is there a saturation point where you can eat

► 01:06:26

you know 20 grams of vitamin C but still only get to the certain point you know and then versus what you do if you like in your you know injected into your veins right intravenously so what's interesting is that most people that are like eating let's say that people are just eating like 5:00 somewhere between five to nine servings of vegetables or fruits a day those people have anywhere between like 70 to 80 micro mole micromoles vitamin C like per liter so it's micro moles per liter in their

► 01:06:56

but if you take like a 200 milligram supplement you only raise your levels to like 90 so it's not much over that like Baseline most most people that aren't eating that many that serve many servings probably have around 50 which is can still considered normal 50 micro moles or micromolar and then what's interesting is that like but those levels you take if you take 200 200 milligrams it's that doesn't do much if you take a gram it can raise you up to like a hundred and thirty or something if you take three

► 01:07:26

Cam's it can raise you to 220 and that's like the maximum level you can get from oral supplementation 220 micromoles that's big that's a big difference 220 versus like 50 so three grams 3 grams but here's the other interesting thing is that if you don't take it multiple times throughout the day if you only take it once you'll Peak at around five hours after I think that there's like a really nice graph on my website on the topic page it shows it's like you'll Peak like five five hours after

► 01:07:56

but then you go down steadily in over 24 hours you're back to normal your Baseline but if you take it like you know four times a day you can stay at 220 but like all the whole time and the reason that's important is because a lot of studies looking at Oral vitamin C consumption and like for for instance the common cold incidence the common cold really depend like there's huge variations in the results and it all really seems to come down to Dos like it really does and when you know the

► 01:08:26

listen how that's changing your blood levels like you're only taking 200 milligrams which some studies are doing it's barely doing anything over your Baseline you know so I found that really interesting and then the intravenous vitamin C you can you can you can Mac I mean so far that like the maximum I've seen measured is like 70 times that your blood can get 70 times 200 was yeah so it's like 18,000 or seventeen thousand or something like so Ivy is far more effective oh it totally overcomes all those like saturated pool man

► 01:08:56

in isms it's and it's not only more effective it's a completely different game so with we're going to pause yeah what what dose do you recommend for intravenous vitamin C yeah for enter Jamie can you pull up found my fitness.com and there's a vitamin C topic page so that way I can answer that question better because there's up just put there's a graph if you're just like scroll to the graph there's like not all this is on your website which tell everybody found my fitness.com vitamin C or whatever happens good paycheck

► 01:09:26

podcast but scroll back up to the to the main home yeah so topics click on topics there we go vitamin C somewhere bottom there we go

► 01:09:37

okay so there's a there's just look for the figure scroll you'll see it okay wait there it goes is there any way you can make that yeah the bottom one is one honestly that's the intravenous okay so there we go so this is intravenous dose so you you want to get at least 10 grams so you can see 10 grams is like in 10 grams is ten thousand milligrams yeah 10 grams of ten thousand milligrams so that's that's about 10 grams that's what I've done in the past but what's interesting is when you

► 01:10:07

get above that is the pop-up newsletter it my newsletter is great I mean I'm sure I do lots of announcements there as like I give commentary and stuff I'm scared to like published on the website I want to hear all the crap anyways like what are you scared of him well no no I'm just like you know there's I'm not scared I guess that's the wrong word I just want to deal with it right that's that's the thing I just don't deal with it the by intravenous vitamin C is a completely

► 01:10:37

different game because it literally generates hydrogen peroxide like when you get like doses above you know when you start to max out over that you know plasma level 220 micro mole the vitamin C itself so vitamin C kind of Cycles between being oxidized and reduced its called dehydroascorbic acid dehydrogenase orbit and then ascorbic acid or ascorbate dehydroascorbic acid is the oxidized form and

► 01:11:07

oxides generated which is really interesting because it's one of the mechanisms by which at least it's thought that intravenous vitamin C kills cancer cells it also has been shown to like kill viruses and stuff and a variety of different studies but that's interesting because your neutrophils your neutrophils generate hydrogen peroxide so the intravenous vitamin C is like generating hydrogen peroxide at the same time it's also acting as an antioxidant for for your own neutrophils and that's been shown so people

► 01:11:37

well you know in clinical studies but also it's been shown that the hydrogen peroxide does not damage the normal cells like normal and Northeast normal healthy people given intravenous vitamin C it's generating hydrogen peroxide but there's no oxidative damage happening in people's like lymphocytes and stuff so it's not like damaging your own cells and how often would you do this if you could have one study the study is a you know it depends on what virus you're looking at like you know what I mean for you personally for just for health benefits oh I was take if you just had

► 01:12:07

says to it every day how often would you take intravenous vitamin C you know it's something because if you if you look at the graph it's kind of a trans intravenous vitamin C is transient so it's like it's having it's not something that like necessarily needs to be done all the time it's something like I was I was interested in doing it like my mom was my mom had just gotten sick and like common cold you know she had like a runny nose and stuff and so I took her we went to get the the IBC and they did it was 10 grams that we did

► 01:12:37

it and I took it because I was like well she's sick and I've been around her and like I don't want to get sick so you know I thought why not try it and you know so you know the intravenous vitamin C maybe maybe there's like a reason to do it but it's not something that I'm certain that people need to do on a daily basis it's different than like vitamin C you know normal vitamin C you do need you need to get it from your diet it's important like it's important for normal immune cells normal immune function that's been shown

► 01:13:07

but I know if it's I'm sorry to interrupt you but do you believe it's important to take it orally as well as IV hmm well the IV is it's totally the IV is totally different the IV's really being used as a therapeutic treatment like it's a therapeutic treatment more you know the IBC where it's been shown to help with like for example it's at least in see the hospitals in San Diego it's routinely used for sepsis like friends of mine you know use that use it for treating sepsis and there's been

► 01:13:37

large randomized controlled trials showing that it dramatically reduces mortality with sepsis so like that's a especially in combination with thiamine as well like huge differences in mortality people dying from sepsis which is obviously very relevant now but hasn't been shown I mean there are clinical studies that are ongoing right now some in China and some of the United States looking at IVC potentially to help treat covid-19 Associated pneumonia you know that it'll be

► 01:14:07

seemed to see the data from those trials whether or not there's going to be an effect it's not known but the fact that it has been shown to treat to improve sepsis outcomes in multiple studies it's also been shown obviously cancer is like a big one like that was like you know Linus Pauling was like deemed a nut like you know the Nobel prize winning chemist who basically is the vitamin C guy like he back in the 70s was like championing intravenous vitamin C for four

► 01:14:37

cancer patients because he was claiming it was like you know curing them quote unquote curing them at wasn't quite doing that but it was like improving the outcomes of cancer patients and there's all these studies from the Mayo Clinic came out and they were like nope doesn't do that turned out they were using oral vitamin C which is like comparing apples to oranges you know so but now there's been so many studies a lot you know how to Mayo Clinic fuck that up I don't know that's what they did that's so crazy they did yeah yeah there were doing that's who you would depend upon

► 01:15:07

you want to know well is this academic let's look at me over to go I don't know maybe they like they've definitely like gotten their gotten more on game since then it didn't understand the difference yeah who knows back then you know the pharmacokinetic studies that I am referring to I mean those aren't those our briefs Mark Levine at the NIH he's real like he gets credit like he is really really involved in putting that out there like the difference between intravenous vitamin C and oral are apples and oranges completely different

► 01:15:37

like and so until that was known I guess maybe the Mayo Clinic they just thought oh vitamin C is Vitamin C you just can take it orally or and until like some of that data started coming out the pharmacokinetic data where it was like no it's not the same thing like you're talking about 70 Times Higher vitamin C levels in the plasma like you could never do that from oral like it's not the same at all before that was known I guess maybe that that's why I've even heard people dismiss vitamin C saying that your body only absorbs a certain amount its way

► 01:16:07

did if you take more than that you do it so here's the thing like so maximum bioavailability does occur at 200 milligrams and once you go above that like when you if you take 500 milligrams of Vitamin C or Olli you start to excrete a lot in urine but that doesn't if you look at the plasma levels you're still increasing them much higher your excreting more to but you're increasing your plasma levels more so so you take 200 milligrams you get your plasma levels of vitamin C up to 90 you take 500 you may get it

► 01:16:37

little bit more you take three grams you get it to 220 yeah you're going to be paying a lot out but you got to 220 right and so if you look at these these common cold studies there's like randomize meta-analysis randomized control trials and Analysis of them they've shown that like you know two grams is better than one gram for for like reducing the duration of the common cold two grams of better than one and children who are more have a more robust effect than adults so like adults like it reduces the common cold like to

► 01:17:07

can do something like 20% reduce the duration by like 20 percent or something and it's children's emergency that company got a lot of shit for their claims and the claims Grant I said two grams emergency doesn't have right thing so then you can 200 milligrams or so there you go so you keep looking down there's more meta-analysis another meta-analysis that looked at 200 milligrams up to like 200 milligrams up to two grams and that study kind of just lumped everything together rather than the other study like okay what happens is 2 grams and one and they did all these

► 01:17:37

sub analysis and that was great because they like got to the bottom of it dos matters the other study it was like oh it reduces the duration by like four percent you know basically nothing so so there's like all this there was all these conclusions it doesn't do anything well yeah 200 milligrams look at that graph it does it doesn't do shit to your plasma levels like you're still at Baseline so I think that people designing clinical studies like they need the that needs to be in their mind before they design their trial okay what am I trying to

► 01:18:07

measure here like I want to get I need to like I need a measurable like I need something to measure any that to change right to get an outcome like if you want your trying to like see what effect vitamin C has on whatever outcome you're going to want to wait Ray someone's plasma levels right so I guess it's good at the end of the day to know that 200 milligrams doesn't do anything because then you go okay well 200 milligrams doesn't do anything but it's also good to know that oh wait if I take a higher dose there is an effect so you know making this general statement that oh

► 01:18:37

vitamin C supplementation doesn't do anything is not necessary accurate in some respects yeah 200 milligrams it doesn't do much for the common cold but when you take 2 grams it can help and also other Studies have shown that prophylactically is slightly better than like therapeutic so like after the onset of symptoms so if you do it like before symptoms like there's a better you know how come as well so I mean that's all kinds of interesting so for you personally if you had the option would you do it once a week

► 01:19:07

Ivy I'm it's pretty interesting yeah I've like I was doing it I was actually doing it once a week before your children play enough once a week is enough totally I bet I don't even know if it's necessary honestly to be honest because again it's a therapeutic treatment I will say this like my one of my friends she's a she's an MD and she has reactive Airways there's interesting studies that have shown you know like that the intravenous vitamin C is like dramatically reducing inflammation as well it's doing all kinds of crazy things but

► 01:19:37

but her cough and it was very transient it only happened like while the IV while the vitamin C was high in her plasma she's got this crazy common you think she'd had covid guess he's like it's just like a constant nagging cough you know that it completely hundred percent went away I noticed it and she like my friend is a little bit you know she's a little bit of a skeptic when it comes to like

► 01:20:01

vitamins or anything like that you know so I wasn't going to say anything because her and I have gone and so on so many debates about it so but she said something and I was just like you know I'm so glad and so she now she's wanting to do it like she's wanting to do it like you know once a month at least so mmm so I thought that was you know interesting again I don't know that the intravenous vitamin C is necessary there's also interesting effects on like fat oxidation like effects fat oxidation because it's important

► 01:20:30

carnitine which isn't necessary for oxidizing fat like there's been clinical studies where people are like burning more fat when they're exercising if they have vitamin C and if they have low Vitamin C levels or not like burnings much fat I think it's because it's the carnitine I thought that was really interesting I didn't know anything about that so we've been doing intravenous vitamin C and glutathione and a bunch of other stuff sink once a week that's we've been okay yeah thanks another one that's really you know important for immune function as

► 01:21:00

as well and elderly people are more zinc deficiencies not really common in the u.s. most you know zinc is found in really high in oysters but not a lot of people always stirs it red meat poultry you know if you eat enough of that you should be getting enough seeing what about vegetarians vegetarians do they are more prone to zinc deficiency and in fact because the zinc is bound to phytate it's less bioavailable and they need to like eat like up to three times more the RDA needs to be like almost

► 01:21:30

three times as high for them or they can just supplement which I know a lot of vegetarians do but yeah but zinc zinc is really important for immune function like there's been studies where they have like depleted healthy people of their zinc just transiently and like T cell function like is all messed up so it like totally messes the immune system up randomized controlled trials showing that zinc zinc acetate or zinc gluconate like lozenges they can dramatically lower the duration of common cold

► 01:22:00

so is acetate or gluconate which one Superior so there was it's like that was trending that acetate was better trending meaning was nonsignificant although it was like 40 percent versus 28% I don't like to me lowering lowering the duration of the common cold by 40 percent versus lowering it by 28% I guess it was a nonsignificant for whatever reason so they're saying it's the study concluded that they're both the same but it seems as though a state may be slightly better mmm baby slightly better

► 01:22:30

but you know that I am taking Zeb zinc is also a positive ion so you need a zinc ion for to help it get in to cells so like course flavonoids that quercetin corset ins found in like apples onions buckwheat teas which is what I drink but you can supplement with that which I also supplement yeah supplement with as well it's questions interesting because it says in Ghana for it's also been identified to have activity against Sarge Cove one antiviral activity against our scope one

► 01:23:00

doesn't it have nootropic properties as well I don't know not wrong about that it has I don't know it might be confusing it was something it's got sent a lytic properties which means it can it's been shown it's been identified as a possible compound that can clear out since senescent cells which are those cells that are you know they accumulate with age and they're basically like they're not dead but they're just like not really functioning and they're secreting their secreting

► 01:23:30

some things that age nearby cells I always like to think of like I was mentioning to Jamie that maybe 42 next month and so yeah I have some gray hairs hey gray hairs and it's funny how like you'll get one gray hair and the other gray hairs like cluster around that one with the the clustering and I always think of like because their cellular senescence happens in the melanocytes the you know are responsible for pigment so I always think about oh the senescent melanocytes is likes creating all this pro-inflammatory stuff that's now

► 01:24:00

accelerating the age of my other nearby hair follicle melanocytes causing them to anyways quercetin has been identified to clear away senescent cells so that's kind of cool for aging right gray hairs and all just for aging and now that's just my like and analogy for people to understand why senescent cells are bad because they like age say other nearby cells by secreting all this stuff pro-inflammatory decided thing I forgot to ask you about vitamin D deficiency is red light therapy

► 01:24:32

what would that have to do with vitamin D did I don't know do you know about these red light machines that people stand in front of ya the photo bottom photobiomodulation yeah does that have any effect on vitamin D that's not UVB no kids different yeah yeah and and I you know I think that

► 01:24:53

that itself it's an interesting field I would say that it's the marketing is got a little head of a science for that but I do think that there's there's promise particularly for some treatments you know there there are some claims out there that are sort of being backed up by a very poorly done studies but I think I think there's some promise out there for it just makes you feel good does it yeah it's interesting I've been doing

► 01:25:23

it I try I wanted to do it before I even talked about it for months solid and I do it basically for five days a week and I just I don't know it's hard to tell because I do so much shit do you saw Anna yes if that makes you feel good every day every day I'm doing what five days a week and I'm doing seven days a week hundred eighty degrees for 25 minutes dude I do a hundred and eighty degrees for 25 minutes dude run it yeah unless it's if it's a hundred ninety or a hundred and eighty-eight

► 01:25:53

I'll do 20 but yeah I do 25 at a hundred and eighty as well so it seems to me The Sweet Spot you know and I've been doing it every single day of the quarantine because I have a sauna in my house do you have a song in your house we did well it's in our office which is like just call Mom it's like it's like well it's not in our home but it's yeah it's just right next door much so we got that literally you know I can't believe it's like like three hours before shelter-in-place was put in put in California I mean I couldn't / couldn't believe it well we

► 01:26:23

we had ours done just a few months before I mean it was just I was thinking like God if we didn't have this in the house and you couldn't go anywhere I luckily we have one here so I could use the one that's here but it's a godsend it's a man changes everything it's a game change its a game changer and we've been doing so I haven't had a warm shower since since the shelter in place since I got my son showers I do I do it's amazing like I do I don't want to make people feel bad look I went a long time without a sauna I know what it's like

► 01:26:53

like I was doing hot bath and we can talk about that yeah it is but there is something about the sauna and then the cold bath the cold shower sorry the cold shower that is just it is game like I'm so much more relaxed and this is like I think I've told you the story the whole reason I got interested in the sauna was because I was in graduate school doing it like every day and I was like this is amazing I am so much less stressed I am like calmer and more relaxed I'm happier yeah something's happening so I was like into the

► 01:27:23

not even all the muscle and all the cardiovascular I mean it mimics cardiovascular exercise it really has a big difference in my cardiovascular activity let's been shown to in people there's a study this was I think Gary Locke and who is a friend of mine just the he's like the best leader and sauna research in Finland he published a study where they looked at cardiorespiratory Fitness and cardio I think cardio other cardiovascular disease risk markers in people that were

► 01:27:53

we fit or physical sorry physically active and plus the sauna or you know just physically active so so physical are just sauna alone so physical activity was like the king so like if you kept compare physical activity alone Tucson alone physical activities the best at improving cardiovascular health saunas also good sauna and physical activity together were better than the physical activity alone which I was like yeah come on that's what you want I don't remember I don't like you asking me

► 01:28:23

like six months ago or more but that's what you want right like you want like you like I'm already Physically Active I mean you're like more physically active than me and so but that's what you want is like the combination it makes a big difference once I started doing it during the lockdown one of the things I noticed the runs that I do the last Hill is fucking brutal and I always finish on this last Hill but now I've been able to run that last Hill the last Hill it's like a market difference when I hit

► 01:28:53

he'll I'm like wow this is crazy either I'm getting better shape and I know I am for sure but it's also I got to think the sauna has a big impact because it feels like I'm on a drug it feels like I'm on I don't know what epos feels like but I would imagine it would feel something like this with the increased cardiovascular benefit is very noticeable totally totally I mean there's been some small studies looking at you're talking about performance enhancements there's been some small studies showing that particularly with endurance that there is a performance enhancement I think it was cycler maybe it

► 01:29:23

was running running and cycling if you ever measured your heart rate during its oh yes so here's the thing with that like At first I was like terrified to do that because I don't want to ruin my Apple watch you know I've like ruin time and like Kevin Kevin Rose was like No just put your hand on I do it all the time and like I like he's a tech guy so I'm like all right Kevin Rose tells me I can take my Apple watch in the hot freaking Saint I'ma do it right so you know my heart rate it can get up to like 120 but the thing is is that there is adaptation that happens so you're

► 01:29:53

really like you at your becoming adapted and so your heart rate doesn't increase as much like overtime right and I'll be I'll be honest I stopped wearing my watch in there so I'm not measuring my heart rate anymore like to get a loop strap because the loop strap was no problem at all yeah the letter H oh yeah P I'll get you one I'll have one sent to you all right which is there at their one of the sponsors of the podcast but I love it I would love to have something to measure it without having to take my watch in there because I don't like sitting like it's like you know well the witch trap measures it really well

► 01:30:23

well and it'll give you like you could actually mark it down as an activity and I'll show you what your heart rate to the it's not a mountain of data it's really good and cool yeah let me I'm also great for sleep it shows you like really accurate sleep at it actually has a sleep coach built in so it shows you like how much sleep you got how much recovery you recoveries at and what you need it'll even tell you you know hey you should go to bed since you been getting up at six o'clock in the morning you should go to bed by 10:00 tonight

► 01:30:53

nice had you noticed an effect so I've been doing this on every day sorry five days a week because I would do it every day but I got to have you know more time with my son but have you noticed an effect on your sleep at all yeah for relaxed do you yeah he's like you need more sleep they'll like you know like when you're working out hard like you sometimes require like more more sleep yeah yeah well when I do squats for sure anytime we do lunges and squats and heavy leg day

► 01:31:23

is I'm a Zombie for two days and like if I have a particularly intellectually challenging podcast I'll Skip Leg days because I know I'm just going to be too stupid I've done it before we're coming in like I can't form so weird it's not if you see what I'm doing there was this weird there was a study that linked there was a link between like leg strength and cognitive function it's going very strong like the more leg strength you had like the improve it was like some kind of crazy number two Americans yeah

► 01:31:53

it just makes sense that if you have more leg strength that means you're doing more activity that means you get more blood flow that means everything's probably fun laughing louder because it's such an enormous part of your body when you look at your musculature the the large percentage of it is from the waist down hmm and when I do when I'm doing leg work like if I'm doing most of what I'm doing is kettlebells but I'm doing lunges and presses and squats and all these different things with heavy kettlebells so it's like it's a lot of weight that your muscles are pushing Dan is

► 01:32:23

always trying to get me to do squats like I don't know what it back when I was in grad school I was doing squats and I was using the stuff and then I was doing I guess what are they called leg presses yeah and I like injured myself and in this I want to call it sky at a couple what's the other one that's like sciatica there's another Attica is a nerve that comes from your disk Spike right here yes well you know what that's from though I don't know what I don't know what it is I don't be calling you and I gotta go

► 01:32:53

a most of the time what you're getting is your lower back you're having a your disks or protruding and your disk like if you have a herniation of the disc or if you have a bulging disk it's pushing against your nerve and that's sending that pain down usually your butt and into your back your leg and along those lines right is that where you were getting paid get or exactly it doesn't go into my leg it's just like this like right above my butt yeah yeah yeah that's it that's a lot of

► 01:33:23

times you thinking it's that area but it's not it's your back and it's your back with a disc pushing into the nerves have you had an MRI no you should have an MRI okay because I'm scared to do squat like squats or like like every time I do that yeah I get a flare up and it's like I'm sure I'm out well there's other things you can do to strengthen that area like what like what first of all there's a machine called a reverse hyper it's fantastic we're first hyper yeah I have one out outside I'll show it to you but it was created by

► 01:33:53

Kailua Simmons from Westside barbell he's a he's a genius he's given us he gave us his new platform to that's amazing too what is that thing called Jamie it felt squat belt squat I love this thing because you wear a belt and the weight is actually pulling the weight is behind you I'll show how it works before but you're on this platform and all the weight is on this belt instead of on your shoulders so you can have like 250 pounds or whatever

► 01:34:23

it is but it's all being carried so that's that's the thing right there the machine but that's yeah that's similar to what we have but the machine that we have is a little bit more complicated but the point is this guy comes out there any pictures of females doing only gorillas nice big giant tooth but the the reverse hyper the reason why it's so special is forget about this for a second here there's a girl there's a girl using that that is a more primitive version of

► 01:34:53

that we have out there the new one that Westside barbell sent us it's just a cable to come through the floor and the weights are actually behind you and it carries you carrying all the weight on your hip so it strengthens the legs without putting a load on the back which is fantastic wow I like that for that so you can get all the legwork do you get from squats but you don't get the pressure on the desk and then the reverse hyper is a machine that he actually invented Louis Simmons invented it because he had a herniated disc and the doctors are telling them hey we have to operate on you because you have this compressed disc and so he's a

► 01:35:23

a very smart guy and he knows so much about physical fitness and weight training hit that's Louis right there he came up with this machine so he said we'll listen if something compressed it something can decompress it so he came up with this machine and with this machine the reverse hyper does on the lift it's strengthening the lower back muscles but then as you drop it down its wings low and it actively decompresses all of of your discs wow it may be so scared it's gonna like aggravate you know I'm no no trust me first

► 01:35:53

you can do it with no wait the first you could do it at first with no wait and that's how a lot of people are when I introduce people to at I get have them do no wait but for me it's been a giant Game Changer so I do that and then there's another thing by Teeter Teeter makes this decompression Dex it's called a d e XX and from that you hang from the waist you like strap your I have that outside as well your strap your ankles into it and you hang from the waist and it just all your that's it right there so with that

► 01:36:23

at that lady right there in that image she's holding onto those handles and that's how you kind of get yourself down but once you get yourself down you just relax and all of your weight see how that guys doing it they're all your weight is decompressing the spine so it stretches the spine out and decompresses it and it gives you a lot of relief so between those two particular pieces of equipment the reverse hyper and this decks to which which I fucking love that thing

► 01:36:53

yeah de X2 and then when I get my home gym I'm gonna have to get all this stuff yeah this is made by Teeter Teeter has two things that are really cool it has those inversion tables which are great for you know the same thing you're hanging by your ankles and it's decompressing your spine but I actually prefer this product from them because this completely isolates the back and you're not pulling on your knees and your ankles when you're decompressing it's all just decompressing the back and also you can do leg extensions and a bunch of

► 01:37:23

other thing you see people doing dips and other exercises from the Teeter but it's a great machine and it's just really specifically good for back Health lower back Health decompressing it and even strengthening it because you can do those back extensions so you hook yourself into it and you just lift your battery thing that I'm scared to do but it shouldn't be you shouldn't be scared to do it because that's what's going to protect that area what's going to protect that area is muscle and strength and also flexibility works that would be just in

► 01:37:53

I guarantee you it's going to work because I'm so like the whole time I had a gym membership it's like one pause but the whole reason I had one kasana like I'm like scared to do like I do freeways I free weights and I'll do that but like I'm just scared of machines all that get you a trainer that's what I need that's what you need because so many people fuck themselves up by trying to do things on their own and I did and now I'm scared it's like this like and now I'm I'm guarantee you is just poor form and all kinds of other stuff to do more I'm a big like I go for my thing

► 01:38:23

is like my jam is like endurance my love going for runs like you know and I it's like huge like it's so great for the mind right that's the reason I do it like absolutely with with this shelter-in-place thing because I like to do outdoor runs and I don't have a treadmill or anything like that I mean it was like I finally got a jump rope and it came in right when the beach is opened up but because I can I'm good at jumping rope and yes should have been doing that but I was sauna and every day and doing you know I was even still like I did some like ballet stuff you know but like I need to

► 01:38:53

resistance training like muscle mass is important for Aging for sure and bone density it's also density right lifting weights increases bone density tendon strength so many different variables that are so huge because as your body gets older those are the things that go south yes and I you know I'm going to be 42 next month so like 52 so now you make you feel better yeah you I mean what decade ahead of you definitely like you're fit you know so I need to I just can't I can't

► 01:39:23

never let it go that's no and I definitely like my diet I you know that's dialed in and I definitely like do the running and the sauna but but I need to be better about resistance training for sure I used to do yoga a lot but you know I became a mom it's like I mean like I used to work out like you know twice a day twice a day I would do I would do my yoga or my ballet and then I would run now it's like you know did you realize how much work being a mom was for you did it oh no I had no idea

► 01:39:53

I mean it's most amazing so ignorant toe it's have no idea it is I mean it's tons of work I mean saying sometimes I like it's like 3 o'clock in the afternoon I'm like I never brushed my teeth you know like I haven't showered in a couple of you know the saw nothing like I'm have to shower now but like before before I was doing this on every single day yeah showers I mean it's like nap time it's like what can I can get work done or I could take a shower

► 01:40:23

shower what should I do I yeah a lot of work to do it's hard I know it's hard though thankfully I have help for my mom my mom is like you know she's Nana so she helps out a lot so I can I can actually get work done it's hard you know being being a mom that's you know I have you know I run a business and but I also like want to be a really good mother so it's like yeah I guess it's hard it's balance is very difficult it does help

► 01:40:53

if you have some equipment in your house you know that certainly helps yes and that's like we've been like leaning towards that and it's it's you know we're slowly getting to the to the point where we're going to have more and more where it's just like you have to have easy access it has to be something you can just you know do look when you need to find the trainer just find someone that can shoot me you can learn a lot online but you have access to resources you really need to find someone who's willing to come and you live in a you live in San Diego it's an awesome place for Fitness I mean there's so many people

► 01:41:23

people down in San Diego that you could find right yeah five someone find some gal who's fucking jacked knows how to lift weights you know and then I'll like inform them all about the sauna and tell him I'll bring benefits to be honest yes yeah for sure yeah I'm sure they can get a lot of that I'm it but I'm sure there's someone listening to his right now it's probably the message you and say I'll do it right I'm your huckleberry hey I wanted to tell you this about the the I've been nice it's been like just having having

► 01:41:53

effect think the first time I came on your podcast like how many years it's been it's been a while but I talked about the sauna years least and yeah it was like what you were in 2020 now yeah more than that the first time you came home so 2014 yeah because I was still a postdoc so yeah 2015 I stop I cut that out like I finished my postdoc so I published a couple studies so I think it's 2014 but like the sauna you know it's just been like

► 01:42:23

something I can on that your podcast the first time when we talked about it and then of course continue to publish videos and articles and stuff and I'm writing a review article for peer reviewed publication right now but there's a woman who reached out to me she's a she was she had done her I think her PhD either her PhD I don't know it's a psychology but she had done it with a guy I interviewed in the podcast dr. Charles raised on who is he's the guy who showed that like a single hyperthermic

► 01:42:53

in which was with the device that raised the core body temperature like almost three degrees could have an antidepressant effect well she reached out to me and like the FDA shut that whole machine down like no you can't use that for research anymore which kind of shut down the whole Saint a depression you know research area so she basically she's gotten some funding and she's doing a pilot study with a new device which is something you can like buy off Amazon where it's like a sauna like your heads out but like it's

► 01:43:23

like a tent on a tent yeah my wife had one of those before we had a sauna yeah so it's a little it's different but it's something that you know she's got a prove that it's safe before like the FDA will allow her to even like continue on to like measure like to study how it affects depression and so I've been able to you know help help with connections I've had helped fund new study she's going to be doing where she's going to get depressed patients to basically be exposed to the

► 01:43:53

Sana and it's like an intense like she's like this intense protocol where like she's like she's like an hour long and they get really hot and people are giving them to wet towels because like it's like it's like imagine being it's like a hundred and forty degrees Fahrenheit so it's an infrared but they're in there for like an hour you know and they're getting they raise their core body temperatures are measuring that rectally so but she's going to measure the effects on you know on depressed patients so it's really exciting because and they're going to do like a dose-response we're going to see how many the Charles raised on dr.

► 01:44:23

resign showed one just one single session could result in an antidepressant effect six weeks later she's going to do try to do eight sessions like like where she can see if he's got people from course of how much time I think it's going to be once a week once a week for eight weeks again and when you say what is the methodology like what are they using so

► 01:44:45

okay but they using the reason that saw now that I was telling you the same thing the so they're using that yeah that's the sauna so she right now she her name is dr. Ashley Paige you before where they were saying they caught it they wouldn't let him use it was a device it was like this device that like basically is sort of like a far infrared thing but it would it would raise your core body temperature through you know infrared right okay so what is the difference what difference when people ask me about infrared saunas Rhett yeah

► 01:45:15

so infrared saunas the main difference between infrared saunas and like the regular dry sauna is a you and I use is that the the regular dry saunas are heating the ambient air right and that's then raising our core body temperature through that mechanism the infrared saunas are like they're like changing electrons they're like they're like directly heating they're like directly heating your body basically without having to heat the outside air is much there have been some studies that have compared

► 01:45:45

I mean there's benefits with these infrared saunas the in Japan it's called way on therapy it's far infrared and they use it it's been used to like help even treat different cardiovascular diseases like it's show to improve like corn like chronic heart failure or something like that I think so there's there's benefits with these with the the infrared personally there's I think there's a lot there's a lot stronger there's much more research on not only dry sauna is but in Finland they take they take the saw

► 01:46:15

on dry sauna has like these hot rocks and they pour water on top of the hot rock and so it creates humidity right steam and so so that's really a common sauna like I went to Finland a few years ago visited Finland some of their song is there in Finland and so that's a very common thing I think they call it like first I call first of all they call it Santa Santa and they call it weird way of talking yeah Lu L Lu l or something where they make the steam do you pour water on your rocks so our sauna is like

► 01:46:45

like it's pretty small it's a two-person sauna and yes so I can get the community like but if I get it up to 50% I feel like I'm like I'm like I'm burning presently looking yeah so yeah if I'm in a rush and I'm like I'm like I just got this and I got you know I got things to do I got to be right so up like poor the pour the water on the hot rocks to like just get it really feeling really hot but pert my personal favorite is like a nice 25-minute hundred

► 01:47:15

no no water just dry like I like that but I'm so accustomed to 180 that I used one in Vegas and when I was there it's like it was 160 I was like this is ridiculous I could be here forever and so I just started pouring water on on the thing I got 10 bottles of water and I just pour and bottles of what because it was just me in there right and I got that fucker hot it was it was like okay now we're cooking I was sweating up a storm it works I mean like I said our

► 01:47:45

it is really small and so like I mean you're breathing like it's like burning you there's a direct formula to between the percentage of humidity and then the increased temperature the way it feels like if it's at 180 but you have 10% humidity humidity it's like the other is I don't know what that formula is absolutely there's a formula and in the lot of the studies and coming out of Finland many of the people there are using are doing the the humid stones on as well so

► 01:48:15

I mean I guess they're called finish saunas which means like they're using the the hot water and steam it would be amazing to have a sonnet outside sonnet it's right next to a frozen lake like the way they do it oh yeah they cut a hole in the lake and then get the party started we did I went I visited the sauna society and it was in November so it was cold and it's right on a lake and so they have like the day I went it was not co-ed day so you know it's only women saunas that I went in there was like

► 01:48:45

like sectioned off but so you go and you do these differ they have all these different types and I don't remember in there like whipping each other with like Birchwood you know yeah which its branches yeah the the Russians like to do that they call it the Banya right the Russian Banya they beat each other with this these branches that are wet so okay let me tell you my stroke anyways they jump in the lake and they go back and they doing this right so here's my did I ever tell you my crazy story on a story about Finland crazy story so I have a

► 01:49:15

the friend he's a friend he's you know he's some of your friends are a little eccentric right well this guy he's got he's got a you know huge property in like the country in the woods like in Finland and select the first time I ever went camping and it was like snow camping it was crazy it was like the worst thing ever like he had he had us do this like there's like two tenths and it was a conference that I gave a talk at and so there are some people paid extra to like go to this event that

► 01:49:45

was after it so there was like 30 or so people there and they're all from all around the world there's only like three Americans me Dan and some other guy no for Americans I think but anyways it was my first time camping like outside like not in like like I've been to Yosemite but I like stay in a cabin you know I don't like sleeping in a tent right but so it wasn't a great experience because one there was this guy who snored all night to because it was snow camping we had to like there was some weird they fire thing and he was

► 01:50:15

that this guy was in the military and so he had us do this thing where like everyone in had to wake up at I forgot what it was every hour someone get a past this this year in a big wall tent we were in a big I don't know what it was called but I didn't sleep the whole night and it was awful but here's my saint experience so he doesn't believe in you can't wear like swim suits or anything in the sauna so you have to be like you have to wear no clothes or if you really wanted you could wear a towel like if you were modest or whatever

► 01:50:44

cuz to them it's like you know no big deal the sauna you just you don't wear any clothes and buy that okay okay so they were to I know they told me they told me that oh no the saunas in a sexual place and like really yeah the really your human being there I know so so so only three people were a towel me Dan and this other American hmm and so everyone was in there naked lots of like there weren't that many females but there were some from I don't know that UK or and some German I don't know but they were all naked like it was like I guess Europeans are like

► 01:51:15

you know like they're more used to it or that's what someone was telling me I don't know what the case is but anyways I had people coming up to me going I love your podcast and this I'm like I'm not gonna get a cake it before like conference and they were there and you like think I'm going to be naked like in this sauna with someone's like a podcast fan yes oh my God they're in your face so anyways I'm in the sonnet everyone's naked and then he and the guy who's my friend okay he's still my friend he's an interesting guy but

► 01:51:45

he had like people come started doing yoga so like and they're naked to Jesus naked naked wonderful get like my my first Finnish sauna experience where it was like people are too open-minded they really are when it comes to things like that was just happy it was like you can wear a towel if you want because he has a home do it I'm like get out of here you're not staring at my junk yeah so then I went they were all jumping in the lake after

► 01:52:15

like I'm going to just sit on this patio it's freezing out here in Finland and November I'm not going to take my towel off and jump in the lake for like friends what do you wear a swimsuit why says who like what is the difference is zero difference in the benefits of it he's some cultures it's a cultural thing and also he claimed that there's like toxins being released from one of those assholes fuck off buddy I got a swimsuit on

► 01:52:40

and then okay the yoga was bad it got worse then he had some he got some whipping technique with the Birchwood and he wanted like to demonstrate it so he had like one of the Britain girls like she was laying I mean it was just like it was too much like here's the thing here's the truth like I was hot as fuck right so all I didn't care anymore like I cared about my towel but I didn't care what was going on I was trying not to look at everyone you know like I didn't want to see like you know some married like I don't steal stuff well people get sexual to because it's hot and

► 01:53:10

sweaty and if this guy is like got it sounds like he's a little bit of a cult leader right like no one needs to be naked okay that's how it started me that because he passed out like this flyer because it's like we were doing all these events you know all these events were happening in this flower passed out I was like we're reading it and I was like this you have to you can't wear any clothes or swimsuit or anything cause I had packed my since I was like yeah I'm gonna wear my swimsuit something you have you can't tell people they can't wear clothes you just his own home son I can

► 01:53:40

yeah how convenient but you could wear a towel so hmm great thanks buddy yeah all that toxins talk to soon someone's talking about cleansing toxins but like fuck off I was like so put off with the toxin stuff like it's funny because the sauna like that's like the one like four years like all the benefits about Saint were always about toxins right right there always comes with toxins what are you talking about like show me what you're saying when you talking about you talking about just regular sweat but it does you do actually

► 01:54:10

I swear I get their sweat doesn't have to be from Sonic Reform exercise but you just you do sweat out certain compounds like aluminum aluminum like it's funny that you you can actually excrete certain compounds better from sweat than urine because that's another way of eliminating things yarn but aluminum cadmium and there's one other that I don't remember sweat it's like the best way to get to be just the conversations you have with people that are into releasing toxins it's like I'm talking mumbo-jumbo talk most of the time I try

► 01:54:40

why not I'm trying not to judge like I really think you should judge but I have a hard time should when they start to go there I'm like you should have a hard time and you should judge I do but you try not to well it's just they say things that they don't really know what the fuck they're talking about and they say it was such Authority and I've had those conversations in public Saint as before to work people are people like they start getting into the toxins and the whole sun and like I'm just sitting there quiet I'm just like okay let me start to tell you some benefits like some real

► 01:55:10

if it's cardiovascular did you know that it actually mimics exercise like literally like that's been shown it's been like compared like 25 minutes in the sauna 25 minutes on a stationary bike and same things are happening you know like blood pressure goes down afterwards heart rate variability improves you know so same things are happening you're increasing plasma volume heart rate increases of core temperature increases right yes your size is doing the same thing that's the antidepressant effect like that I feel from the sauna and that Charles raised

► 01:55:40

on published you know and that doctor dr. Mason will hopefully carry on the torch it I think it's real and I think that there's there's potentially multiple mechanisms immune we know modulations but also just the fact that like bdnf you know there's a study showing that hot baths do increase b d and f and bdnf brain-derived neurotrophic factor which why would you think everybody would know what that means I know I just thought everyone that listen to your podcast

► 01:56:10

that everyone this is millions of you I don't know what it means I do when you say it when we said I go okay yeah brain derived by D and F brain derive new row trophic factors yeah what's so amazing about this neurotropic factor is that it's always thought about in the context of like brain aging because it helps you grow new neurons it's neurogenesis it helps already existing neurons survive but

► 01:56:40

there's studies now showing that it regulates what's called neuroplasticity which is like the ability like your brain your brain changes you know with the changing environment but you have to be able to adapt to that right like children are really good at that like they have a lot of neuroplasticity but neuroplasticity is its associate with depression like not like not being able to like stressful conditions and stuff like that like not being able to like adapt I'm not using like the best of terms but neuroplasticity is something along those lines and so

► 01:57:10

and bdnf plays a role in line bdnf has been shown to be you know to increase with exercise and also with heat stress I'm glad you brought up hot baths because that's something that I wanted to cover before we got off track when we talking about the song I went people that don't have access to a sauna how much benefit can they get out of a hot bath oh I'm glad you brought that up because there was a you know so a couple of things one there was a study that showed hot baths can have an antidepressant effect and these people were put in a hundred and four degrees

► 01:57:40

Ruiz Fahrenheit bath where they were up to their shoulders for like 20 to 30 minutes and the Sham control was like a green light like so people thought they were getting a treatment they're getting some kind of green light therapy or whatever you know so it was a placebo control because Placebo effects definitely real particularly with depression and it had a pretty powerful antidepressant effect very similar to Charles raised on study with the the hyperthermic chamber thing but when you say

► 01:58:10

antidepressant there's no real way to measure that is whole yeah I mean so there are some there's potential biomarkers being identified C-reactive protein being one inflammation inflammation plays a there's like a huge link now between the immune system and chronic inflammation and depression brain function in general bringing aging but inflammation so I mean that's that there's there's a push for looking but not all depressed patients have it's like there's a subset of C-reactive protein

► 01:58:40

but yeah depressions measured it's a very much like a you know have someone so subjective measurement would be a clinical a clinical person like measuring whole battery of things they do I forgot the name of the test but yeah that's that's the test so it's like basically a battery of feeling things it's not like a hardcore quantitative biomarker which is so badly is needed but the Hop as have also been shown so heat shock proteins

► 01:59:09

what do you like amazing there's so many amazing things that heat shock proteins do they've been shown to prevent muscle atrophy and that's you know in the brain there so important like preventing proteins from aggregating in the brain that's how I first got in that like one of my first biological experiments ever because I was a chemistry major in college so I was doing all chemistry stuff organic chemistry and like chemistry but after I graduated I went to work at the Salk Institute for biological sciences in the Hoya I was working in an aging lab

► 01:59:39

and one of the first experiments I had that I was doing like one of my first projects was we were taking the human amyloid-beta gene and injecting them in these worms he's nematode worms that only live like 14 or 15 days and we're making them form amyloid plaques in their muscle so like basically you look at these little worms under a microscope so the only like half a million half a millimeter you know they move around and as like they get older and their aging they don't move as quickly you know they're kind of slower a little more decrepid but anyways you give them

► 02:00:09

us amyloid-beta and after like a couple of days they become paralyzed or they're like laying in their little petri dish plate on the E.coli food you're giving them and they kind of just move around just to feed like their nose just moving around and so when we would give them tons of heat shock proteins in addition to the amyloid totally reversed it like completely like they would move around and be young so anyways he tried proteins play a role in like neurodegenerative disease also some links to like proving depression in animal studies but

► 02:00:39

can you measure heat shot three times in the bath versus song so that's been done so the sauna I know of one study where people that sat in a hundred and sixty-three degree Fahrenheit sauna for 30 minutes had heat shock proteins let their levels were 50% higher over Baseline and which is great and that usually like animals that he showed that that can they can stay elevated for like 48 hours after that there's a hot bath study where they also elevated wasn't quite as high but it was like

► 02:01:09

you know 40 or so percent higher than Baseline levels and it was a hundred and four degrees but this study instead of doing it from the shoulders down where I told you about the Depression was like only 20 30 minutes it was like from the waist down so they had to stay in there for an hour it's like a Jacuzzi you know what you're sitting there from the waist down and like that's hot like staying in a hundred and four that's that's pretty hot but he talked proteins did increase so I think you know for people that don't have access to a sauna that hot baths absolutely gar

► 02:01:39

good a modality for heat stress and I used it for a long time like I said I just got a saint like I've been I've made a career about talking about saunas you know what I just got one like last month so like like I understand what it's like to not have a saint ioan to have to use hot baths but I was also using the gym saunas but right now it's like there's no gyms that were open so yeah there's a hot bath or like the only the only really choice if you don't have a hot sauna no bombs on them what about cold shock proteins and the

► 02:02:09

the mean how much difference is it between taking a really cold shower ice bath versus something like cryo cryotherapy like the place that I took you to yeah so I mean there's there's differences in mean so it depends on how long you're staying in a cold you know water like cold shower like actually being submerged like from like if you're like in the ocean or something or a lake and you're like from your shoulders down like that's probably much more powerful than just having the shower on but

► 02:02:39

either way the shower like some days I'm like what is matter this is not cold at all you know it's just so variable where you like Southern Southern California live on the right the border of Mexico yesterday so so ever so most of the time now I shower right after the song that's like my shower time now and so like it's I do about six minutes and it's so easy for me I've totally adapted and I'm not sure if I've just totally adapted or if it's just like my faucets doesn't get his like just doesn't get cold out cold like I really

► 02:03:09

he doesn't today I took a cold shower from home and my son is not there and I did it just because I wanted to have the mood affects the norepinephrine that's been shown to be increased and it was much colder but then again it was a different shower I'm not sure if it's because I didn't have the hot before you know beforehand like the hot being hot and like getting in the cold shower like it just feels really good nice shock but the cold shop you ask me cold shock proteins that that hasn't really been measured in humans what is measured most the time with cold shock is norepinephrine release

► 02:03:39

and norepinephrine in plasma and there has been studies correlating norepinephrine in plasma upon cold exposure norepinephrine release and plasma to in the brain where it's involved with like mood and focus and attention so there's been studies where like you could do a two-minute cryo whatever the average temperature it's really cold - 240 is what women that yeah and then that could be compared to like you know a longer a longer duration in 50 degree you know

► 02:04:08

I think 50 degree Fahrenheit water or something like that like I don't remember the exact time but but it is comparable but you have to stay in a longer duration so Some people prefer ice baths some athletes prefer the ice bath versus cryotherapy even though it's probably more painful because it lasts a lot longer have you done those I said oh I've done it I've only won the cryo so I've have you ever done the cold shower after your sauna yes do you like it like it a lot like it particularly After hot yoga After hot yoga After hot

► 02:04:38

especially in the winter when it's actually cold the water is cold that's when I love it there's something mood-enhancing I mean these things also affect the immune system by the which is also very relevant both cold and bright and hot they both have been shown to increase lymphocyte numbers and also like other myeloid cells and stuff and people but but like there's something like I've done the sauna and then gone into an ice bath and then you know it's just really it's hard it's cold I mean you feel good but man you know

► 02:05:08

I think just like got the guy's house I was doing and I was trying to impress them so you know I'm hardcore I could do this but it was it was pretty intense I do I do eventually want to get some kind of like they have those like like ice those bath that you can like regulate you like regulate the water temperature yes ones that you plug in there they're not ice baths at all the is cooled water which work like ice and yeah yeah yeah we wanted to get one here we're probably going to wind up doing that get one here actually good because you have to

► 02:05:38

showers and the what the shower next song is kind of useless so who uses this on here Jamie just me you don't use the Sonic has occasional occasion yeah but I also had a gym I was going to perhaps did you do use the sauna that right yeah yeah I use it every day I usually use it at home but sometimes I'll use it here when I like right after workouts like if I work out I try to get a workout here before you know like before I do podcasts and I'll time it so they have an extra hour so I can get in the sauna that's awesome

► 02:06:08

mm yeah it makes a big difference for me but I also just I think might be a little too much before like I'm always trying to regulate how much activity I do with whether or not I'm be exhausted when I do a podcast because I used to do yoga and then I would come out I would get out of yoga at 11 or a 10:30 and I would do a podcast at 12 and I was like who are they a better way to 1 because I just be soaked because

► 02:06:38

minute yoga classes in a hundred and five degrees is fucking rough with intent it's rough yeah I've only done Bikram a couple times I would love to like do it more I loved it yeah I really loved it well I would wonder and I know there's supposedly some sort of Harvard study that's ongoing right now measuring all sorts of markers in people that have done hot yoga and whether or not it mimics heat shock proteins that are created in the sauna because the thing is like you are getting the

► 02:07:08

this incredible cardiovascular exercises your heart's beating like crazy you know you're not doing cardio per se but your heart rate goes get jacked because of the Heat and the stress and then on top of that even though it's only a hundred and five degrees your body is heating up you're really sweating up a storm in there make it gets I've taken some friends there that have never experienced it before and they're like fucking you over come on bro yoga and then they get in there and then I look over at him 15 minutes and they're like fucking a

► 02:07:38

and I'm like yeah it is told you it's not it's not what you think it is because you're doing like yoga even uncoupled from the heat stroke like the hot part yoga is is also like it's pretty intense like holding those positions and stuff and like your heart rate does start to elevate I mean it's like just from that alone adding on the sauna which mimics moderate physical activity that's been shown absolutely mimics it and then all that you know studies that have shown that on top of that I mean that's like it's super intense it's super intense

► 02:08:08

the really cool thing about and I want to get my mom I think once we move the sauna like to our home where it's not like the office like I want to people that are not people that are sedentary and people that are sedentary for whatever reason maybe their sedentary because they're disabled or maybe their sedentary because they've had a lifetime of being sedentary and it's it is just hard to get them motivated to go exercise like this sauna to me is like that's so important because it's giving these people a potential car

► 02:08:38

vascular work out no it is that's been shown is giving them a cardiovascular workout without having to force them to go for a run are going down a bike you know that people think like when you tell them go sit in a sauna they think of like a spa like yeah I want to go do that you get someone who's like like my mom who she's sedentary you know she's not like a physically active person and she needs to be but like the sauna that's that's kind of my goal is to get our doing and we'll have to start slowly because you have to adapt

► 02:09:08

you know the heat shock proteins help with that as you the more the more times you're exposed to heat stress and the more adapted you are like the heat shock proteins increased quicker and so it held its part of the adaptation process as well of you know being able to handle the heat stress but like I want to get her to do that because like any you know any cardiovascular improvements going to help her moods going to help her you know all-cause mortality that's been shown you know 47 times a week 40 40 percent lower all-cause mortality cardiovascular mortality

► 02:09:38

50% lower you know so like I think that's a really cool thing about the sauna is that you can get people that are disabled people that can't go for a run you know I mean I still think exercise I mean it's just the best thing ever yeah period for everything right you know for everything it's just going to overall improve the way you age and that's going to make you more robust and resilient to anything yeah solid to me is there's so many benefits

► 02:10:08

but one of the big ones is that muscles feel better they feel looser they if they're not as sore like when I have hard workouts and I get in the sauna afterwards I feel like we're my recovery is more rapid interesting that's interesting yeah I because I don't do distance training shame on me II don't I don't have that same perspective but it there happened studies at least were localized he on people that had a limb immobilized I don't remember what limit was but after a week

► 02:10:38

people that had the heat treatment local heat treatment had almost 40% less muscle atrophy and animals huge in animal studies and like I remember I like shared this animal study in an article I wrote your years ago before the human said he came out and like there were critics Lids animals and blah blah blah you can't say it does this and I would get on the mechanism and they showed it was heat shock proteins and there's all you know like and I was so happy when I human study came out because like told you told you motherfucker like that's what I wanted to say you know

► 02:11:08

she's just a few of those those guys that you just like you like maybe I just I don't know like do a big comprehensive search the literature and understand things and you know don't have that exact study just yet but like I know that it's going to help with muscle atrophy so people love to dismiss things don't they yes they really do even if even if they're wrong they just love to like fixate on confirmation bias a little possible potential things yeah but you know what Miss it's love just being

► 02:11:38

mine didn't going hmm I think that happens a lot too with like social media because like for example if I share one study I'll share like an an epidemiological study and it's like it's Twitter you know I'm doing a hundred and forty care whatever the chain I don't know what the characters are now but I'm doing a small number of characters and I'm just sharing one study and if it happens to be a non randomized controlled trial then you know it's just correlation doesn't you know doesn't equal causation it's like sometimes I just share a story because one I think it's interesting or two because

► 02:12:08

cuz I've read a bunch of you know evidence surrounding this topic you know about all the other clinical evidence all the genetic has all the animal like and and so I have a knowledge base here and so I share a study that may be isolated in and of itself is not the strongest study but you know it's like I can't have two commas can't I can't I can't someone else it's like trying to strike up a conversation in a porta potty because I it affects me like I'm the kind of person we're like I like to make people happy like it

► 02:12:38

it bothers me when people are like unhappy it bothers me when people like well then I don't go on Twitter period because most of those people are unhappy or YouTube now I mean it I guess that's not really the case I for me at least at the bigger audience that for you for sure I mean the bigger your audience is the more you get that this is what I tried to explain to a friend of mine who was on the podcast who read the comments and I go just have to stop and think okay even if just 1% of all of my people

► 02:13:08

that go from Instagram like if you're reading the Instagram comments 1% are assholes just one which is probably really conservative right you get a room full of people there's a hundred people in the room what are the odds that one of them is going to be an asshole it's a hundred percent right that means there's 92,000 assholes

► 02:13:29

that's a lot untenable you can't manage that right 92,000 shitheads who have half-assed their whole life and they want to just yank that day they want to shoot people down make people feel bad and just don't yeah it's not worth it I doubt and it's and I feel for those people I genuinely do I feel for people that are in that state where they realize that they're not there

► 02:13:59

not happy they're not happy with their own performance and unhappy with their life they're probably not happy with the relationship or their job and they just want to spew nonsense and negative garbage yeah I mean that's that's the problem with not being able to delicious as really delicious the actual Cliff 25 milligrams CBD all right thank you okay I'll get some other flavors to the the problem with that is you will fixate on the one person that says the negative exactly it's an act

► 02:14:29

natural human inclination and that fixation for me keeps me up at night when I lay down don't say that like I'm not I don't it doesn't happen much anymore because like I try like not to read I've gotten so much better at it you know what I'm talking yeah don't in the early days of social media before I got a handle on it I'd be like fuck this is stress it's like so taxing like you'd get into discussions with people I like what am I doing I think it's important to be critical and I get

► 02:14:58

like you know there's there are people that are really trying to like make you know prove something and there's there's all sorts of incentives for being hypercritical well if you had rational people who are kind folks who have interesting viewpoints and they looked at something and they found something to be wrong with that and they handled it with you know Grace and some sort of modicum of dignity and kindness that would be great yeah I mean if there are those people to sure like if you were having a discussion

► 02:15:29

action with a good friend and the good friend was looking at something that you said and said I disagree because of this look I have conversations with good friends all the time and even on the podcast where I disagree with them but we handle it like friends right but that's the problem with Twitter's it you don't see that person to you don't you know you don't know them you don't want to please them you just want to be mean you know and that's what a lot of people are doing and they're just getting their rocks off their exert and I feel like now for while during the pandemic when it started

► 02:15:58

the lockdown started people were nicer there was less social justice outrage was less this but now it seems like as Times Gone on and people getting more frustrated and more desperate and more depressed because they're locked up it seems like it's ramped up it's hot I mean this is unprecedented right I mean boom it is I I miss I miss my life before the pandemic I miss taking my son to the park I miss our soccer classes and I mean like music classes I miss it is

► 02:16:29

the kids are having drive-by birthday parties when they drive by with fucking bombs yell out the window happy birthday like fucking they're never going to forget this the never going to fit a weird this is they're doing all their classrooms on iPads like this is so weird see my son's at an age where he's this is he's not going to really remember well I mean depending you know I really think that I think things will start to will start to get better well if some dozen I'm going to move to a place where it's better because I think the way this cut this

► 02:16:58

eight is handling it is fucking terrible they're treating us like we're infants some of the list they've given you of a proven activities and not approving activities that's highlights it for me because the list sir I don't know if you've seen the have and I didn't even know that oh pull it up Jamie they're so fucking stupid because you got to realize these people that are writing these lists these are not experts these are bureaucrats these are politicians these are people that really have no business telling you what to do and what not to do they're fools but they're in a position to influence me

► 02:17:29

and millions of people so they have the ability to tell 40 million people what they can and can't to make that a little larger so I can read this look at this Athletics badminton singles throwing a baseball softball BMX riding canoeing singles crabbing you go crabbing you'll find crabs cycling exploring Rock pools oh can I can I exploit Rock pools you fucks gardening not in groups golf singles walking no cart what why why can't I take

► 02:17:58

take my card who are you wow hiking trails and paths allowing distancing horse riding singles jogging and running it gets gets grocer meditation oh you can do outdoor photography I didn't know I thought that was going to kill everybody Peyton what what is what is what is the top of this what's this headlight what is this page proved outdoor activities for LA or for the California gets worse kids scroll down it gets so stupid towards the end Alex off martial arts tai chi

► 02:18:29

Kang not in groups Chi Kung they've listed the martial arts like fuck off table tennis singles trail running trampolining oh can I get out of trampoline thanks did know how about this one watch the sunrise or Sunset how about wash the car oh you can wash the car oh great that's crazy I thought rocks were falling from the fucking sky and I couldn't wash the car Jesus Christ but that's what drives me bonkers

► 02:18:58

in all cases you should only do these activities alone or with members of your household make sure you keep six feet of distance between you and those outside your household you fucking clowns even like doing comedy bits like I know have you been we're like sorry writing no no no I've written anything no yeah I thought I should but I've been I've decided to just just accept where this is and then when comedy clubs are about to open up then I'll start writing again

► 02:19:29

but I'm just I'm just accepting where this is and I want to I want to have an honest take on it I don't want to be manufacturing it take we're trying to like come up with some sort of a hot take on how I feel but I want to know how I really feel about this and how I really feel about this is very different now versus the way it was in March because in March I was concerned and I was like Jesus Christ is could be terrible like we really have to stockpile food we really have to make sure that we have water purification we really have to be careful here now I'm like

► 02:19:58

we got to be careful these fucking politicians now I'm in the place while you guys have to understand these people people are starving people don't have any money you're telling people they can't go to work but you're telling people they can go to work in some places like why is it okay to work at Target but it's not okay to work in a family business why is it okay you know what let's let's figure out testing let's quarantine the people who are sick this strategy that you guys have you're not adjusting and adapting your not adjusting and adapting to the numbers the mortality numbers to because their way lower than they were before Plus

► 02:20:28

now we have this understanding of the asymptomatic people and how many people have tested positive that are asymptomatic it's off the charts it's somewhere in the range in in many studies that 70-plus percent of people that get in contact with this are asymptomatic but test positive for the disease that's crazy asymptomatic yes so that's the thing we got to be careful about be careful about what you say 250 could be like me there's probably a range of friends that are a symptom I am tired disease it's out of there

► 02:20:58

system they never felt it yeah I have one friend who he did he had tightness in his chest but he actually was in outside of Mahon like in December so he was like he got it no like at the time he just thought it was some like a little like whatever that's cool chest yeah but it was like just mostly just tightness he said it wasn't like you know that's what's crazy about this it's so there's so many variables in terms of like how people how people are affected by it and what goes wrong and was there are so many

► 02:21:29

yeah there's your your genetics there's your immune system like what how is your immune system shaped like what your there's your diet that's included in it your vitamin D status your you know there's there's you know the other interesting thing and there's been no studies with stars Cove to but there have been influenza studies showing that Viral dose it's really interesting studies that have been done where I don't know who volunteers were these studies but like sign me up to get influenza I want to be right let's give me a funny way they somehow get people healthy people to do that

► 02:21:58

that and there's been these studies where people are like controlling the intranasal like they'll give them various titers of influenza virus and they try the point of the studies to figure out what viral dose and they have like some measurement like Envy in tissue culture number whatever and they found like to make people have symptoms right and they found with influenza I forgot which may or something I think one of the strains was like they could do a certain dose like 10 to the 7 in tissue culture or whatever units

► 02:22:29

where it's 70 percent of the people would get like symptoms ranging from a fever you know cough and all the influenza you know flu symptoms but then when they went down to from 10 to the 7 let's say they went down to 10 to the 5 only like 10% of people were getting so like it's kind of interesting that Viral dose at least with influenza and there's actually been some other studies I think measles also that it is it is a thing not something that you want to like go and experiment

► 02:22:58

and with yourself but you know that's another possibility right for sure when you hear about nurses yes they're getting way more sick right now because there I mean that could be one reason right there their actual job is to be around infected people and their intubating these people and their their their do I care it's like oh yeah getting it right in their faces right with some of them they have poor PPE especially in the beginning when you're seeing these people there were like using

► 02:23:29

makeshift masks and just trying to it's horrible yeah there I think with the masks you know for people I mean reopening the economy and you know some places have more been more successful you know like you know even even like Japan and stuff where you know the wearing the masks like the cloth Mask doesn't do much to prevent you from breathing in maybe a respiratory droplet or something or aerosol right that you know but it will prevent you from spreading it well you know to so too

► 02:23:58

to a certain degree like I get that people don't want to wear masks like it sucks like who thought you know I wants to wear a mask but maybe to open up the economy again like now maybe like everyone could wear a mask if they're going to be inside around a bunch of people particularly better than keeping the economy closer than keeping the economy close I'll be willing to do it it's not going to be forever you know why it's not going to be forever because we're going to figure this stuff out we are like it's already we're already finding repurposed Therapeutics the monoclonal antibodies

► 02:24:28

working on that that's going to be coming soon like that the monoclonal antibodies you're talking about the Llama so the whole point of that is that they're identifying antibodies that can neutralize the virus and they're going to grow them and manufacture them and give them to people it'll help treat eventually they'll identify one that you know Works what kind of a timeline do you think they have for something like this oh I think that I think things are going to I mean I think that these Therapeutics can start the monocle so like from Days of yore has already been identified and there may start to identify other ones like the pancreatitis truck pancreatitis drug in Japan

► 02:24:58

stat something there's the Pepcid I mean there's a lot of different repurposing drugs that are being investigated you know and I think over the next couple of months and then regenerations already you know doing one of these monoclonal antibodies I think in the next couple of months well we'll have more Therapeutics than we have right now at that'll that'll make things less scary people will be less scared of getting sick because they'll have a you know they'll have a better idea of oh we have some more you know things that can therapeutically treat this you know successively

► 02:25:29

people are going to start looking at the vitamin D I really liked that guy I really hope that if not just I hope people are going to you know take their vitamin D or ask their doctor to take it you know but yeah I think that in a couple months so like can you wear a mask for a couple of months and like here's why it's not going to work to just have the people that are vulnerable wear the mask because the cloth math isn't going to prevent them from getting you know the aerosolized drop is if you're spreading it and asymptomatic which is that it's been shown that you if you are asymptomatic that CDC study I mentioned a while ago about how pre-symptomatic

► 02:25:58

versus asymptomatic after a week when they came back to measure the people again they found that out of the 13 10 of them actually did get symptoms the other three that were asymptomatic had as much they were they had were spreading I'm sorry shedding is much virus that could make them you know basically contagious and you know basically able to transmit that so strange so the point is that I think that I know people don't want to wear masks and I have I have family members that like think it's like infringing their freedom you know

► 02:26:28

like it does suck and I know people are worried I mean the thing is like also children I don't know how to tackle that issue because it's really hard that's that seems a little more difficult but like adults you know you know I think that if you're working want to open your your restaurant back up your you know like yeah masks I think that that seems like a good compromise right doesn't the children it's real weird with this disease because some children are getting sick but it's a very small number but many children are getting in contact with

► 02:26:58

this is this disease and how many of them are asymptomatic but are spreading it so they've been they've been quite a few studies looking at children that are asymptomatic children that have mild symptoms and children that are symptomatic and so far so far the Studies have shown for the most part that children even that are asymptomatic are shedding as much virus as both children that are symptomatic and adults that are symptomatic meaning they're like they're able

► 02:27:28

to transmit at they're shedding the virus right sprinkler systems they are there they're like you know Horace lie like I used to never get sick and then I became a mom and I mean I think first of all the first year it hit me hard because I wasn't sleeping you know because you have to like every three hours you got to feed you know feed the baby that's a giant factoring you mean sister oh sleep is huge we didn't talk about that I know you've had Matt Walker on the podcast I've had I mean he's talked about it before and lots of other research

► 02:27:58

jurors have study this sleep is so important for immune function I mean so important but I mean we're all not no one's working because of the probably getting more sleep now but they're also stressed out and they have anxiety in particular if their bills are piling up and they have no income through it's awful it's really awful it's awfully often it's awful for some of these people that didn't do anything wrong they didn't do anything wrong built a business and now that business is crushed man I think you got to get here early option you got to give people the option to go to work you have to you can't you can't do this especially

► 02:28:28

give him an option but where am I yeah this is not the plague that we thought it was going to be this is not the horrible tragedy that we thought it was not it's not it's definitely like I'll agree with you on that like I think like a month and a half ago I mean I thought I was going to see body bags in the street like I was I was like this is like going to be really bad I was terrified and it thankfully has not been that bad I mean New York City got hit pretty hard but you know we have been on lockdown so that has to be counted for you would have liked to see women in New

► 02:28:58

City particularly when they were getting hit you got to think this is New York City in January which is January it's winter time people are not going outdoors I wonder how much the vitamin D deficiency varies dependent upon lights that winter winter it's been shot that's been Seasons that Sunstone right Huns of studies showing that vitamin D levels are much lower in the wintertime it also correlates there's been studies correlating it with seasonal affective disorder and all that but yes January all those vitamin D deficiency is lower for sure

► 02:29:28

I would like to see a study on whether or not it varies between the east coast and the West Coast because over here we do have all these sunny days and power outside far more often than they are in New York or California yeah and they were less clothes they're wearing t-shirts that were in shorts you know you have more skin exposed someone might have done that study I would like to see that study because it makes sense look and people are shittier over there maybe that's why they're shittier you know I mean they're cold and grumpy I'm sure but also maybe that is not feeling well because

► 02:29:58

vitamin D deficiency plays a factor in that as well and I will also like to see something done on whether or not that contributes to how many people get sick over there because when I lived in the east coast when I lived in New York I got sick way more than I get sick out here I'm for sure healthier more cognizant definitely more proactive all of those things play a role personally I think that you know that there's been enough evidence showing that vitamin D plays a role in is particularly respiratory infections at the psychosocial stress like stress cortisol like that but dampens the immune system

► 02:30:28

you know so when you are stressed you're basically you're not in a good situation to fight off as you were mentioning with your friend when you're stressed out like your immune system is dampened and your you are more susceptible to illness for sure and that's also that's also known you know so I think all those things and then the sleep yeah that's why it's so rough with all these people stuck inside and stressed out you know all this the financial pressures that people are experiencing right now because of the lockdown

► 02:30:58

yeah it's really it's so awful yeah it is horrible it's horrible and it's not getting better I hope I just hope I hope that you know we can reopen the economy in a very safe Manner and where we don't have like flare-ups that you know we don't want to be set back to like shelter in place again like full-on you know I'm not gonna do it again I'm definitely not going to do it the way it was before if it's the same disease I don't think it's warranted it doesn't make any sense to me I think not extortion ever since we make sense right I think social distancing makes

► 02:31:28

and I think sanitizing making sure you're using hand sanitizer and cleanliness and all that good stuff and if you want to wear masks in public that makes sense to okay I get it but this spell insides like inside when you're in places I think like if you're going grocery shopping yes sure but test people how about that absolutely it work I mean I test every one that comes in here you you told me you'd been tested and I guess got tested again on Sunday I tested and I'm clear and

► 02:31:58

I did that right when I got back from Jacksonville because I'm like looking in Florida even though everybody's been tested I'd like to get tested again just just for the fuck yeah I'm hoping that the accuracy of the PCR test improves I don't I haven't you know I don't know if there's like a but you mentioned one test that might be coming out I hope that's do the saliva but yeah yeah you know I don't you know I'm not sure what factor do you think play like when we're talking about solid before one of the things this is a respiratory disease and this is something where

► 02:32:28

you're breathing in these particles and from what I understand that this is a vulnerable virus in terms of the the temperature that it can survive in yeah obviously it's in your body but when if it's in your nostrils or if it's in your respiratory tract and you're breathing in that heated Sana air does that have any effect at all on viruses I think you know that hasn't really been studied you know if the virus

► 02:32:58

this is like right in your nostrils I don't know maybe but I think it's already like getting its if it's already getting inside you know the respiratory you know area like your body's kind of maintaining homeostasis so like the Heats of everything some of it off but waiting and reduce the viral load I don't I think the I think what you don't want to just speculate well no I think what's actually the sauna is actually just its improving your immune system and I think that doing the sauna is making you more resilient against against

► 02:33:28

Shannon like they're you know like that's been shown there's been small trials showing that people doing a sauna I forgot the the duration but they're you know they were much less likely to come down with the common cold but you know they had to be doing it for like at least three months like it wasn't just something that you could like you're mentioning but you know at the time of getting it also the respiratory illness connection there have been correlation studies out of Finland showing that people actually I think the study was Men in

► 02:33:58

only men that do use the sauna two to three times a week they're 27 percent less likely to have pneumonia after correcting for and there if they use this on a 47 times a week there 40% 41% less likely to come down with pneumonia after correcting for socio-economic status physical activity cholesterol lung you know smoking COPD like asthma all those like you know lung disorders so you know this on it does seem to have be associated with lower incidence of pneumonia

► 02:34:28

thought to be because of immune you know perturbations and also like the there's a heat shock proteins and all those things like help there's like an antioxidant effect in the lungs like things like that so he tracked proteins also do have antiviral activity against at least influence a so the heat shock proteins directly can activate your innate immune system but they also have antiviral activity against influenza virus so you know

► 02:34:58

so I think that this that the heat stress in the sauna does help now there's another study that did look at humidity and the effect of humidity on basically like the ability of your epithelial cells and your Airway and nozzles and stuff to filter out particles and particulate matter and like viruses and stuff and and humidity actually made a big difference like humidity like the higher the more humid the better that was acting basically able to you're able to like filter out stuff whereas dry it was like the most sense

► 02:35:28

so it does make sense but I don't yeah I just don't know the answer to your question I'm not sure I when the whole thing started when the lockdown started I was getting the sauna really hot then I was pouring a bunch of water on a nose breathing big long deep nose and it was burning yeah but I feel like to I was like I'm killing you bitches oh come on you dirty viruses

► 02:35:52

I would take these long deep nose Brandon the whole inside of my nose would be like stinging and everything but I was like it's got to be killing these things but then you know I was talking to a doctor about and he's like you well you know I was like would it I was a foster home right yeah I was asking him was it hostile home or is it

► 02:36:11

but is the hotel's maybe yeah and he was like you wouldn't be able to breathe in that temperature would wouldn't it wouldn't be hot enough to kill it on my own maybe the way you do the song like how are you doing this Hannah like you know just people think about the song they just think about sitting in there and breathing your know your breathing its height the the steam is hot I'm burning but the question is is like you know there's there's homeostatic processes in these cells and stuff and

► 02:36:41

is it actually I was doing the sauna too hot at one point in time I was doing it at 210 degrees because of crazy Laird Laird Hamilton had me convinced that's not so that guy's yes I did I've done I haven't done I have like I've been to Rick rubin's house and we've done like it was like 200 something barrels also Laird Hamilton there's places like they're die talk but like I was about to like go to one of his I was like literally gonna get on a plane and go to Hawaii and I'm like Laird I'm doing this xpt thing I'm bringing

► 02:37:10

my son we're going to all like make a trip and this it was happening in March right when it all went down was like okay one day one day later it will do its own table do it so he gets in over 200 degrees with a fucking aired on bike with oven mitts on this crazy asshole is riding in are done which and I say crazy asshole with all due respect cuz I love the guy but he's right out here are die machine in a fucking sauna I'm like bro I so I did that two hundred

► 02:37:41

I bet you was the same because they are like do the same protocol like and this was like 210 or 220 it was so hot like like like I was I was like on some kind of mind-altering drug like a hike and I think that's the point with those guys the other thing that happens is and then we'd go into this ice bath and there's like this bath right outside and we're like did all this ice and like I said I was like trying to impress rixos like staying in the ice bath long as I could you know gotta keep got the cool

► 02:38:12

back into the sauna and in like getting back into this like two hundred and ten or Twenty degree sauna and you feel like it's like room temperature because you were just in this ice bath it's the weirdest feeling is really well then you do that like we did it like three or four times I don't remember but but I was like I started out the conversation I was like heat shock proteins and I was like talking science and at the end of the conversation I was just spilling everything I look

► 02:38:42

just telling them all those it was just kind of you open up basically saying I don't remember but I wasn't talking science all my life I was one day we're all going to die and then the sun's going to explode it's going to create carbon that's going to create more life-forms yeah I think I think Gabby Gabby Larry's wife she has a podcast early she didn't know she still does it's called like the truth Barrel or something is that what it was

► 02:39:11

one time I don't know the names changed or not but I thought that was so awesome because she named it after like the sauna because the truth comes out you just start talking like yeah start you know it's intense there's my eye watering but anyways 210 degrees I was finding that it was burning my throat and I think I was doing it too often to his burning my ears and my so we were it was dry for us so I wasn't I wasn't experiencing that as much but I had to like get on the floor because like

► 02:39:41

I felt like my hair was going to fall out like it was burnt you know she's so hot so how long were you doing game your hat so I don't remember we were I mean I was like trying to like Embrace Rags what is the benefit of it being that hot though is there any benefit to that over 180 well I mean I think that you could just stay in first so the so the thing so the thing is is that like with most of the the studies that have been done looking at the benefits on cardiovascular health and all you know all cause mortality quite a bit lower like 20 minutes

► 02:40:11

hundred and seventy-four degrees but you know if you're if you're if you're at 210 you can't stay in there for 25 minutes or 20 minutes like no I mean I guess eventually that's what I was doing we were in there I was in there for I don't know how long and I'd go in the ice back and then go back in there but I would get out and I would collapse you were actually in there for 20 minutes so yeah at 210 degrees and I would get out and I would go out to the mats out there and just call laps yeah that sounds like too much in family too much do you do you do

► 02:40:40

like electrolyte replenishment like yeah yeah yeah take liquid IV actually okay yeah it look what I've he's a great electrolyte supplement that I take but you know what I found what works are corn popcorn why I'm just kidding sodium it's like my cheat I like love I love like my boy I wear a continuous glucose monitor that thing will go to like 165

► 02:41:09

like just from like you know it was from the corn it's from the popcorn know like and I'm typically like you know I'm typically like my meals that are like you know low-carb be like I usually like I eat more like a Paleo ish diet you know so it's like meat and vegetables like you know I don't my meals don't get me over a hundred for sure most the time popcorns Clinton doing like popcorn yeah popcorn will spike it really bad certain things will spike it worse than others but but that popcorn sure did it sure tastes good

► 02:41:38

good electrolyte I guess with the Sodium salt it's so good with salt and butter oh man so delicious who figured out that's the perfect food for for movies we can only eat it in our office though because we have a two-and-a-half-year-old and it's like a big joke it's like the number-one choking popcorn is like the number-one choking oh yeah engine right the colonel so I think yeah yeah yeah I choke on it sometimes yeah the thing about the sauna at 210 degrees to one of the things that it was happening to me I was getting headaches and my throat

► 02:42:08

it was burning like the next I was coughing a lot like like and I was like I think I'm fucking up the actual tissue in my throat oh man because when you cook a brisket like you cook a brisket of like to 10 that's not 220 the headaches I think is a sign that you pushed it too hard yeah I was doing a yeah that's that's intense 20 minutes and to tattoo 10y got addicted to it I got I get addicted sometimes two things that are really hard to do hmm like it just like so in my mind

► 02:42:38

I might because it's so hard to stay in there for 20 minutes at 210 degrees mean it hurts everything hurts your skin hurts your toes hurt like it hurts and then so then the next day I would like look forward to doing it to see if I could do it easier again and then I'm like in this weird Loop that my own brain creates which is really bad that I have I'm very addicted to trying to conquer thing yeah I'm a I'm a bit that way yeah so that was the thing and then but then I had

► 02:43:08

I took a step back I was like I think I'm fucking myself up here 180 180 is great I like 180 Fahrenheit for sure yeah have I have I told you my Xylitol story I wanted to tell you this so I was you chew gum I know you do I remember like after show like you chew gum right sure do you Xylitol gum I don't think so okay really what is so good about coming to tell you my story is that all is it's like it's from the Birch plant we were just talking about it's the natural it's naturally found in plants so it's that Birch you know what their way

► 02:43:39

it's from that plant it yes it is used as a like if you're eating it you know I think it could cause like like the your with at all kind of thing effect where it's like too much GI distress but when you're chewing gum or using toothpaste these many Studies have shown that it kills anaerobic bacteria like streptococcus caucus mutants that cause cavities and dental decay really so so here's my store like multiple studies in humans showing this it's like a

► 02:44:08

big deal so I went to this is before I was before I had my son I went to the dentist and my dentist is a really great and he did an x-ray we're doing a cleaning you know mental hygiene thing and then he comes back and he's like you've got to cavities I was like how about cavities I don't you need sugar like you know I've just I've got like a bad oral microbiome or something that I've just for four years I don't know I shouldn't have cavities because I don't eat sugar but anyways I had so he goes you have two cavities they're at the point of no return where you know like you

► 02:44:39

there I guess they penetrate the enamel a certain amount and they're like you have to you have to like get them out and so the way I am is I always like to like look into everything before I do anything it's like okay this is not my field I understand I told him I'm like I'm going to do some reading research and see if I can find you know if there's any you know possibility that don't have to like get a filling right and he's like okay well if you find anything please send it my way so so then I found out I was pregnant and I was so I was like okay well I can't go back to

► 02:45:08

dentist and at that point I was like looking through everything on my toiletries and everything like what do I have to get rid of what's another could be harmful and sounds like fluoride like in my toothpaste so I was like I don't want to use fluoride toothpaste anymore and these stories are going to connect but so fluoride fluoride has been shown a lot of people are worried about the effects on the brain and the only solid evidence I could find on negative effects of fluoride on the brain are in utero meaning

► 02:45:38

giant women you know the effects on babies and I don't know if toothpaste has enough to even do anything but in my mind I was like nope getting rid of the fluoride you know I got a I got a water filter that got rid of the fluoride in the water and I was like doing all that so I came across this Xylitol toothpaste consequences I little toothpaste so I started doing research on Xylitol while I was looking for Alternatives like Tom's of Maine I can't use that crap I've tried it before it's like rose like is pick my team my teeth get dirty

► 02:46:08

darling I makes your breath smell worse

► 02:46:13

anyway so that was like I've got to find something other than Thompson main because I came across this diet is that old stuff so I started doing research and then I found all these studies I'm not only did I find studies that like it you know basically kills these bacteria that cause cavities that s mutants pregnant women that choose I like tall gum by the way the studies were with gum not the toothpaste that people were chewing this gum and pregnant pregnant women like they're like six months pregnant a study start at six months and they chewed this Xylitol gum all the way up until

► 02:46:43

anywhere between the child you know the baby being six months and there were some studies that one out like a year and then they met the the researchers measured the oral bacteria of the Toddlers and then they measured in multiple years out loud as they became children and the mothers chewing it chewing the gum it lowered the incidence of the S mutants in the children because you know mother's kiss their kids and you transfer oral bacteria and so they're like they're chewing is out of

► 02:47:13

at all gone had a positive effect on the child's oral microbiome and I was like fuck yeah I'm gonna do this I wish like I gave myself TMJ like I chewed so much xylitol gum while I was pregnant and like I still like to this day I chew I have some with me right now but TMJ is what am I saying the right thing yeah like man I don't like it was like popping my jaw was pie was eating a lot of sautéed kale and chewing a lot of Xylitol gum when I was pregnant and so but it totally fixed itself thankfully so anyway

► 02:47:43

your goes by I have have my son I've been shooting like okay I got to go back to the dentist because you know pregnancy makes your teeth worse there's like all this stuff about you bleeding gums bleed there's like there's some kind of term we're like women get like like what's that periodontitis or gingivitis one of those too bad anyways so I go back to Dennis we do the x-rays and I'm like oh you're gonna tell me about the stupid cavities and I haven't done the research you know and he goes he comes in and he goes I've never seen this before but your cavities are gone a show

► 02:48:13

the x-rays and you showed me before and after he's like they're totally gone and and I was like that's amazing as I said the pregnancy is did and he's like no he's like we get women coming in here after Prince like worse and I said the only thing that I did like I could think of is like my obsessive Xylitol gum chewing which I still do and the fact that it does decrease the you know I don't know how it would affect an already formed cavity but my cavities are gone whoa

► 02:48:43

so my doctor might see the my dentist is great because he like you know any dentist could just be like nope they're still there like I don't know what the x-rays will still look like you know so so I feel like he's a trustworthy guy like yeah but it's not crazy worry about Shifty Dennis but yeah but you do it anyway right right so that is crazy so the Xylitol gum somehow so you think that what it did was affect your the microbiome of your mouth oh and it's showed at there's also studies showing that it

► 02:49:13

increases the incidence of I said I'm talking about staphylococcus mutants because it's only when I remember but there's another one that causes dental decay but it didn't affect any of the good bacteria in the mouth wow so so I was like a now I'm just like it's all staphylococcus mutant that that's the same is that the same family that you get from staph infections no no different stuff yeah okay but I mean there's lots of different staphylococcus blah blah blah blah you know okay so it's so the Xylitol gum joking me

► 02:49:43

to get on it it's really awesome like it's I really think it's we already are that gun we've been doing a Xylitol in it oh the neuro gum okay I've been chewing this neuro gum that is its gum with nootropics in it nootropics yes like plank so I was like I was eating a bunch of e CG Z CG C & co co coco via like capsules like the the catechins in the dark cop dark chocolate for mine what's in it

► 02:50:14

I'll find Young and healthy and I'll see I was looking for my healthy me but I was out because that like helps calm me it's got a little bit of caffeine l-theanine and B vitamins I fucking love it I love it but I take it before I do kick boxing workouts I chew chew gum I used to mince to I used to sorry it was neuro yeah as b6 and b12 also that looks interesting I I used to take when I was like doing long-distance running I was running like you know 8 to 10 miles a day

► 02:50:43

day and I was doing that like I was probably about 50 50 miles a week which is pretty good you know this is like when I was in my early 20s but I would like dose up on all these like B complex vitamins and I swear I would have endurance just front oh for sure I don't know if it was like Placebo or not but like B12 as a big impact on your ability to do work you think so oh yeah for sure I'm done any research on it but I just know that I used to take them and I felt like a big effect I don't know yeah B12 shots you ever get a B12 shot I did so the

► 02:51:13

the intravenous vitamin C I got I think it had B12 in it run down B12 shots give you an awesome little boost yeah but I haven't done like a specific Beach WE 12 shot this stuff's pretty good and I don't feel any like the song to get you hard I don't feel anything weird oh no isn't that isn't CBD supposed to like also be like calming one it relieves anxiety yeah you just got to get a good CBD like a good CBD that doesn't have THC because I have a few that I've tried from other countries the

► 02:51:43

the tank sure that I take is from CBD MD and it doesn't get me high at all but I've had some from other companies where I would have like three droppers full-on like oh okay why does it help your sleep yes or does the th is yard you require to you see for this know different people have different results when it comes to CBD and some people find that CBD with THC benefits the more and some people find that it's just the CBD itself but the CBD MD the company that I use what I really like

► 02:52:13

have a bunch of muscle creams and like stuff that you rub on the outside of sore muscles that sounds fantastic it's really good penetrates into the skin and just really good at alleviating soreness and I had a so like one of my old colleagues science colleagues was telling me that like they were measuring some samples from like different CBD products and like the majority of them didn't actually even have much CBD in them at all like there's just a lot of I mean I mean this has been

► 02:52:43

shown with vitamin vitamin you know vitamin supplements as well there's been so many studies showing like even Vitamin D supplements like it'll say it has 10,000 IU but it only has like 6,000 like there's been sampling where you like to go to like Walgreens or CVS or you know you just whatever random place and grab the vitamin that they don't have as the concentration and isn't High also those like echinacea things like a lot of it's just clover leaf clover like because it's not regulated I mean nothing

► 02:53:13

Tanisha kind of bullshit anyway like what does that do for you you know I have such a jack up your immune system that's what everybody always told me that there were all sick all the time people talking here military ins they never think to fission taking a Canadian 12 efficient to yeah yeah no I know I haven't looked into the echinacea someone like someone asked me about the Elderberry so I looked into that and because I was like is that like an echinacea thing but there's actual legitimate research Elderberry like has been shown in

► 02:53:43

and in randomized controlled trials to like affect know the immune system and lower cold duration and stuff like that you know so are you a fan of Kombucha do you I'm a fan of Kombucha I used to drink what is the one I drink the dark one ginger lemon Donna can't remember the name jeez no I used to but then there they are sugar that the sugar and that one's too much of the one that I drink is 2 grams per serving and there's two servings so there's only four grams of sugar the sugar though is what helps the fermentation and helps the fungus

► 02:54:13

right I think there's this the GT1 that had like eight grams so it's like twice as much and the other and the ginger lemon one I like the ginger lemon a lot and I'm like this one tastes better so the ginger lemon does yeah the one that I'm getting it's like it's found it like Whole Foods and sprouts and it's in the store have the same amount of active culture though like that's the question I don't know it's in a dark bottle you once told me dark bottles better well the dark bottles better and why China because it doesn't ferment in the Sun as well

► 02:54:43

well doesn't the sun doesn't penetrate it okay almost like UV protector gut gut microbiome health is important for an even function it really is like like that's another thing we're yeah kimchi oh yeah GI Joe eat the shit out of that stuff I love it do so I there what's the brain time get a buy it buy it from Sprouts or whole food mother-in-law mother-in-law that's when I guess that's what we have some here yeah I love that song that fits so delicious too and I love it with meat meat yeah

► 02:55:13

yeah it's we've been like we have a bunch of elk Burger we ordered online what do I no no no I'll give you some yeah but I mean I hadn't come here here while you're here and we have start you up we were like you early on we were just like we bought freezers I need to Burger I need all the Orchid seeds and everything but I'm just so thankful that it's not as bad right I really am yeah I'm sorry food as well but I think our government needs to make an adjustment that they need to

► 02:55:43

recognize that it's not as bad as start opening things up but there's so many people that are just the sky is falling the sky is falling still they're still saying it they're still screaming from the rooftops like we can't people are dying and like people are dying every day from everything they're always that testing right I think that's she's gonna make you a big difference and just anything to people become less scared as these as these Therapeutics to emerge which which which they will I'm sure absolutely but what I really wanted to talk to you the reason why I wanted to bring you in here is this conversation that

► 02:56:13

just had to talk about what are the what are the methods you can use to help boost your immune system keep your body healthy I think we kind of got it dialed in so vitamin D seems to be very critical Saint if you have it if you don't bath vitamin C orally you need a big dose and it's still not going to have the same effect if you can do IV you don't need to do it but once a week anything else Zink Zink of course the 10 for your corset in Mark and then sleep

► 02:56:43

keep Sleeping Giant and microbiome Health do you use anything to help you sleep in terms of like a meditation app or do you so I use melatonin okay why do you say that way I used to not so I have a history of Night Terrors and it was I mean well it's like when I when I'm stressed out particularly it flares up and it happens like when I'm I think when I'm shifting from one sleep stage to the next

► 02:57:13

where I am asleep but somehow I wake up but I'm not awake and I can still but I'm moving my body and I think that someone's in the room and that they're going to come get me and I freaked out and ice cream and it's happened where I scared and of course he's like in the middle of the sleep and it happens earlier in my sleep cycle so it's like but I've so I started doing I started reading about this stuff and it's like I don't want it like the treatments were like benzos I'm like how am I going to take benzos that's you know been

► 02:57:43

don't like cause dementia right yeah so that stuff's terrible terrible and it's so hard to be like yes it did it's very addictive and then like if you become addicted to it I mean it can like you can like go through serious like die well Jordan Peterson just went through all this and literally had to go Enzo's yes and went to Russia to have some sort of crazy medical detox awful he's still suffering from it I mean I don't even read what he's been fucked up for like a really bad wow that's uh

► 02:58:13

yeah so I didn't want to do that but there was there was hot some studies showing that high dose of Melatonin you know more in the like 10 milligram range so I'm taking 9 milligrams a night and I totally stopped having them for the most part real Dan says yeah like I went through one episode where what happens when someone has a night terror is like if someone else in the sharing the bed with you like tries to stop you or help like because I'm still asleep I'm not aware that

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that's my husband doing that and I really think someone's trying to get me and so I just go into like crazy mode and I like I like somehow like crawled from our bedroom all the way out to the living room and by the time I woke up I mean I had bruised myself I was like how did I get out here you know like this was like the worst this was the worst that's ever happened to me so usually I just kind of scream and wake up and like like I think someone's going to get me you know melatonin totally totally stopped it totally

► 02:59:13

sit I measure I track my sleep as well and I think that you know I don't know the Sleep stage stuff how accurate that is I think it's not very accurate but duration is pretty accurate so what do you do not think is accurate like tell me like how much time I'm in deep Sleep forces where a mother that are ordering oh we don't think that's accurate I think that the I don't think the Sleep stage is accurate was that because like that's like you have to like measure brain wave like it's

► 02:59:43

measuring it smell tell you why because I've had multiple incidents when I was nursing my son back when I was nursing my son where he was on a nursing pillow and I'm very relaxed of course I'm nursing him right and making oxytocin and and I'm like scrolling on my phone reading and it calculated me as being an REM sleep and it happened it happened more than once there's other times so Dan and I don't we don't have a TV in our room bedroom but when we go travel we're in a hotel were in bed so we're laying in bed watching a show and I'm like totally relaxed in bed and it's totally putting me out

► 03:00:13

calculating as asleep so Mike you know you know it calculates heart rate and movement and body temperature so you know I I like it I do I just I don't think that it's totally accurate and measuring my only real way to measure that as those little suction cup things you put on your head yeah right I did a sleep study ones because I have sleep apnea so I do yeah so how to do that do you do a CPAP or know I have a got a mouthpiece

► 03:00:43

and so amazing yeah it's a mouthpiece of as a tummy what it is because my father-in-law has apnea and yeah there's a doctor doctor Keroppi and he's a very wacky gyro Pian yeah my supposed to write that down is that going to fit but look them up yeah you can find it Brian Kuro peonies in Tarzana yeah pretty sure he's in Tarzana he used to be out here well he was in Tarzana and then I think might have moved to Sherman Oaks anyway

► 03:01:13

you'll find it I'll find it I'll find it I'll send it to you but anyway he devised a mouthpiece that has like a little tongue depressor and for me my problem is my neck is very thick there it is what is a yeah full breath solution CPAP alternative.com yeah it's the idea is a lot of people have a problem with see paps they it's uncomfortable wearing a mask over your face that's how I felt and so this mouthpiece is sleep apnea mouthpiece it's it's in my mouth and the tongue

► 03:01:43

sir keeps my tongue from sliding back and closing my Airway wow let's take the win so I was okay you did go on so I went and I had a sleep study done wow it was bad it's hard to sleep probably when you're in those right like your it is but I did sleep you know because I was I was sleep deprived that's what it looks like so see it's it's in and that little tongue thing pushes down on your your actual tongue like like a bit have to get fit like a yeah like I would yeah you go in there and they

► 03:02:13

folds yeah exactly yeah it makes a big difference wow that's awesome I've gone places and forgot it in a panic like fuck yeah I mean like nothing else are we the yeah so that's a huge that's a huge thing I actually had that at first because I was like am I just like freaking out because I'm like not getting enough oxygen or something you know but I'd they had me do a pulse oximeter thing and we started with wrestlers and athletes football players get it because your neck muscles get really big and when your neck muscles get bigger if you

► 03:02:43

a big tongue and I have a big tongue when I lay down it closes the airway so my tongue slide oh yeah Chloe I'll be just associate with obesity yes yes well they get fat yeah right that's one of the ways that they there's operations that they do to try to alleviate it and they just cut out some of the tissue inside your mouth and then they also cut out you're going to Boyd's hogeol's there so you don't wear it because I wouldn't be able to talk for like a month right if you don't wear it do you snore

► 03:03:13

like crazy that when you wear it you don't snore I don't store it all yeah your wife must love it she loves it yeah before I was off and I also choke I'd be like I can't breathe you know because I'm my body's forcing to adjust I remember I was on a plane once and there was this guy behind me and he was a kind of a heavy fellow and he was he was really snoring loud he was laying on his back and really snoring loud and then he would go without breathing for multiple seconds and I filmed them and I

► 03:03:43

and I told him when he woke up I go hey man I go do you know you have sleep apnea and he's like no I go listen I have it too I go but you got to do something about I go you hold your breath for long periods of time because rely on my show you yeah so I showed him he's like fuck and I go yeah dude this is really bad it's associated with so many different things it's associated with high blood pressure heart attacks the risk of all sorts of ailments plus you're just not sleeping enough you're not getting real sleep because you're constantly being woken up

► 03:04:13

shocked into this state of like know it's really bad it's bad for you and it's bad for your spouse like my mother-in-law has to go she goes into the guest room to sleep like after they go to bed because she can't sleep like it's really bad do you have to do the same thing to get the I wanted to kill that guy you have no idea was like I could just stop here like I'm sure yeah it's like having someone that snores is like you can't sleep no you can't say can't wait my ears

► 03:04:43

or like earplugs first of all they're not comfortable for me I've really tiny ear canals and I just like can't some people can sleep with earplugs like I just can't it's Uncle I just can't it's uncomfortable yeah snoring is a real issue and it's usually an issue of some sort of an impeded Airway yeah yeah I'm glad I don't have that but the night terror thing I'm just the Melatonin has helped so that's right yeah yeah this is anything else helped you for sleeping yeah oh I mean I think that that going so basically like having

► 03:05:13

good circadian rhythm and and like bright light exposure in the early morning like it really does help like there was a time when I would you know like I lived in Oakland I was just in this dark little apartment and you know like it just wasn't really great for my circadian rhythm because I would wake up in the morning especially like on weekends and stuff like you know there's like no light coming in and I didn't I wasn't I didn't live in a place that was like I could just go outside and Frolic you know right so Frolic and

► 03:05:43

Oakland don't really go together well yeah but yeah bright light exposure big too big it was like a huge thing and I'm the red light so I have I do the Philips Hue we're at like 5 o'clock all the lights in our house go read that makes a huge impact on my son and his sleep cycle like because children are really sensitive to light because they don't have like cataracts and stuff and so the melody there they're like you know that melatonin is not being produced so like if we go travel or go to my in-laws

► 03:06:13

I mean they have lights on them like going around the house turning will off because I want my son to go to bed I don't know our you watch do you if you're looking at your screens do use blue light blocking glasses so I have like all the apps and stuff and most of the time like and I turned my my iPhone screen is like down and they have the black background and all that but no I don't wear glasses I just yeah those are great you should look into that nice blue lime light has to because when I actually get a chance to watch TV like it doesn't happen much

► 03:06:43

cuz right now my son falls asleep at like 9:00 and he wakes up at 6 and so like Jesus I have to go to bed immediately after each time so I'm like wondering ways when do I when can I cut the nap out like Googling everything you know just trying to figure it all out so you know you have to keep napping and told her three or not I don't know I got to like do some more reading because like it's not that's not uniform I know my youngest didn't ever want to take naps she's like Fuck off staying awake oh my son doesn't

► 03:07:13

on a take he doesn't want to sleep ever it was the party all day every day man he's like it'll start to become he starts to like get a dusk and he's like it's still daytime daytime and I'm like for a little bit it's gonna be nighttime soon what about if you get them active the exercises yeah well it's we used to go to soccer class and stuff and go to the park but it's hard with the shelter in place right now I've only got a lot of pent-up energy so we've been doing like yeah so I've been trying to

► 03:07:43

to like take them you know like we do like hide-and-seek and run run run and where am I where am out but you know I think I think the bright light exposure for him you know taking him out in the morning is really important and now that like because we you know now I'm able to do that more like I feel safer I like the you know like so especially being outside I don't I'm not as concerned so like I think that's really important from bright light exposure is just if there's just study after study showing it sets your circadian clock boom it's like oh

► 03:08:13

hey this isn't this is this is like the morning and your circadian clock starts and then you know so you become sleepy when you're supposed to come become sleepy as long as you're not in tons of bright light at night but that's been probably the biggest thing by the way you know what's actually as talking about my glucose monitor my continuous glucose monitor we're talking about popcorn you know the biggest thing that really affected my glucose levels wasn't popcorn it was actually lack of sleep real yeah big-time effect like particularly

► 03:08:43

isn't exercising like like almost pre-diabetic level fasting blood glucose like when this is this is when my sleep was being disrupted when like my son was like younger so I've been wearing my continuous glucose monitor for a year and a half maybe two years now do you wear this what is it with mines mines right here oh you have a little patch that you wear on you all the time you're not diabetic no I've seen a guy who wears one of those but he's diabetic yeah I mean I'm wearing it because I'm sort of trying to understand how different

► 03:09:13

Aunt foods have different Lifestyle Changes like how long you been wearing it I got it probably right after the last time I was on here okay right literally yeah just constantly wear for years then I've been where yeah it's been over it's been almost maybe two years almost two years a year and a half but I most of the time constantly wear it sometimes because it only it's like the sensor last for 10 days and after change it and sometimes I like forget in a couple days go by and then I start like eating the pomegranate because

► 03:09:43

my son loves and I'm like wonder what this is doing if I click us but the lack of sleep because he would wake up like I would be getting interrupted multiple times at night like you know where I was like I don't know he was going through some developmental stage and and he would stand in its crib and it's like so I was I was getting woken up multiple times at night for like prolonged periods very very like fragmented sleep and I was nothing had changed with my diet and my blood glucose My fasting blood glucose levels if I'm might

► 03:10:13

sighs routines dialed in I'm not like shelter in place you know it's probably you know mid-80s and so I was up like I was up to like when fasting blood glucose would get up sometimes so like if I wouldn't exercise like one I'm like wake up in the morning and I'm like 106 107 109 so wow and that is big and it was horse reputable why is the lack of sleep causes you so many studies published we did a video on it and like

► 03:10:43

it's I mean it affects like the the insulin secretion sensitivity like all that stuff it's all being affected so it's one of the reasons why I like you know shift shift workers they're like really are prone to type 2 diabetes they really are so sleep is so important but I think this poor people that has got to be one of the worst things for your body nurses like their doctors anybody the First Responders workers anybody's working that late shift Dan Dan had a appendix removed like he so he had this

► 03:11:13

easy story but you probably have to go how crazy is it well it's pretty crazy actually so he had this appendix thing happened we were busy visiting his parents in Memphis and it was like Christmas Eve and he so he had to go the hospital he's like it's bad I need to go to hospital so we went to the hospital they're like yeah you have appendicitis but he didn't feel comfortable getting it removed there because there's just a bunch of factors the doctor wasn't his doctor like you know all that stuff so he got this

► 03:11:43

antibiotic treatment they're like sent him home a couple days later he got some IV treatment and then it came back like a couple months later or like few months later back then we were home but he was like all of a sudden like the first time he had it he was just like paying I should go something's wrong the second time he was like vomiting and like you know you know I didn't want to like I had my son was sleeping it was like 2:00 in the morning he woke me up so you know we called the first I called the ambulance I was just like

► 03:12:13

you know he's vomiting I don't know if it's a ruptured you know it because it could be serious right but anyways these first my whole point was the First Responders they came and they were just like yeah we don't ever sleep like it's like we don't have actually it's just so awful for them terrible for you so anybody's working the late shift God that's going to be so bad for you I used to deliver newspapers so every morning I was up at five o'clock in the morning and I was also doing comedy so I was going to bed really late at night and I was just

► 03:12:43

just always tired I just I would just I would be sitting here I just boom fall asleep that's awful yeah it's terrible a lot of a lot of people are asleep or five deprived so a lot yeah a lot yeah it's a huge Factor yeah well I think we covered a lot today we got we got a lot in the vitamin D information was so fascinating all of it appreciate you very much you're always an awesome resource I really think you're awesome to talk to thanks so much for having me back on the Pod my pleasure anytime tell people

► 03:13:13

find you it's found my fitness and my fitness I had everything I have an iTunes podcast as well I've called on my fitness yeah YouTube channel found my fitness and a website found my fitness and found my fitness Instagram if it was my fitness Twitter that's right all right thank you Rhonda appreciates Joe bye everybody

► 03:13:34

thank you friends for tuning into the show and thank you to our sponsors thank you to LegalZoom whether you need a last will or a living trust or Advanced Health Care directive you can do it all LegalZoom so many things that you would have normally had to go to a lawyer's office to take care of you can do online and since LegalZoom is not a law firm you do not have to worry about expensive billable hours adding up so take an important step for your family today go to legalzoom.com

► 03:14:04

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