#1124 - Robert Schoch

May 31, 2018

Robert Schoch is an associate professor of Natural Sciences at the College of General Studies, Boston University. He has been best known as a proponent of the Sphinx water erosion hypothesis. Check out links to more of his work at http://robertschoch.com

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checking out the Joe Rogan Experience

mr. Shock first of all thank you very very very much for being here I've been following your work for a long time now and I'm very appreciative of you and very appreciative of everything you've done and I've been assassinated by the subject of ancient Egypt so I'm I really am really psyched very sorry about the bank it's a real pleasure to be here I've heard a lot about your show I've heard a lot about you my of course I would like John Anthony West I think was wrong with you a couple of times he was very proud that I guess you did the only fool Skype interview with him with him he used to like to talk about that so I just had to talk to him and you know he was in Upstate New York at the time and it's just really didn't have any plans to come down here and I just I was very fortunate to one day get him in studio that was real nice

so it's been wonderful with his work that DVD series who did magical Egypt was amazing and I had seen your work before that in that Mysteries of the Sphinx thing that was narrated by Charlton Charlton Heston NBC 1993 I think in many ways it was the mystery of the Sphinx that really broke everything open brought everything to the public attention I've had many people tell me I'm not trying to brag or anything I'm just saying it's actually that this really opened up a new field if we could put it that way I knew a way of looking at things in the popular among the popular public popular media people around the world versus the academic scholarly journals in the back and forth that type of thing you have to remember I'm a faculty member I'm at Boston University of Miami academic and many of the academics have poo-pooed should we say over the years bringing things to the public

but I think it's been important to do now what we're talking about for the people that are uninformed is the idea that some of the structures in ancient Egypt are far older than conventional wisdom or conventional modern-day archaeology modern-day Egypt ologist they would like us to believe that all of this pain from a very specific time. And people like John Anthony West in yourself and some other folks like Graham Hancock are proposing that it's entirely possible that there were many different eras of construction in Egypt and that there is some structures that are far far older than we think exactly what I was alluding to assist really opened up with our work on redating the Great Sphinx yes and I think you know the story but maybe just to summarize in the smallest of nut shells John Anthony West before I met him he was became a follower should we say I should say follower because that sounds wrong but then

like it's a religion Dogma but he became interested in the work of the late schwaller to Lubavitch who died passed away in 1961 but he had mentioned in a one line that the Sphinx have been weathered by rain I would say precipitation as a geologist not wind and sand so this if it were true and it is true would put the Sphinx back to a much earlier. Which would tie in with schwallers work and John Anthony West subsequent work that there were indications that dynastic Egypt as we know it going back to about 3000 BC was really a legacy of what I call now or earlier cycle of civilization something that goes back much much earlier which at this point I date back to the end of the last Ice Age Ice Age ended 9700 BC just to put it in perspective for people so when when did you first get on board with this

Anthony West okay so the story goes this way John Anthony West published serpent in the sky his probably most famous book first edition 1979 he was then looking for someone that could really validate or at least

access from a scientific point of view this theory about the Sphinx which he had just barely serve touch the surface based on schwaller that maybe it could be older but this was really a geological question he mentions that 1979 serpent in the sky John Anthony West went on to become very involved with Egypt and he start traveling to Egypt Aquila tours to Egypt he wrote The Travelers key to ancient Egypt in 1985 also mentions in appendix I think it was just the older Sphinx Theory but really looking for someone to at least assess it scientifically he met a fellow at

in in Egypt actually at the time Robert Eddie who is a Ph.D English literature I believe something like that but he was takes teaching in Cairo American University in Cairo I believe then he came to Boston University this is late 1980s I was and still do teach at Boston University full-time Robert Eddie and myself got to know each other Robert Eddie mention me as a geologist to John Anthony West and that maybe this was someone who seems fairly knowledgeable fairly open-minded about things on Egypt or I was reading about ancient Egypt when I was literally six seven eight years old I had a grandmother who had a wonderful library at the time and I would go through her Library ship books from the bridge

Museum on Ancient Egypt going back to the turn of the century so I thought I was prepared in the sense I was open to such things but I didn't imagine getting involved in Egypt anyway professionally did you have any thoughts about the dating of the Sphinx of the pyramids or anything back then before you look together things so there were two things going on in my head back then which may be prepped me for this number one I knew the conventional story I knew that the Sphinx goes back to 2500 BC according to the standard egyptologist in 1989 which is when I first I believe it was 1989 I first actually met West in person I had in my mind that the age of tall just must be correct because they studied at they must know what they're doing I was coming from academic point of view I'm not I'm just giving me all saying where I'm coming from I had gone to Yale University get my PhD in geology and geophysics

I was very well grounded in quote the status quo academic point of view so I thought when I first went to Egypt I would just prove West wrong I would just prove that the egyptologist knew what they were talking about but in this is important but I was also trained in many ways both as a graduate student and going back to my grandmother who I had great respect for work and was also very true we say liberal and open-minded but critical you always have to follow the evidence wherever it goes and that's always been my rule thumb that not everything is always the way people say it is even if their Authority and something I already knew when I went to Egypt for the first time was that some of the very old age of colleges in the late nineteenth and early Twentieth Century had actually suggested that just the way it looks the feel of the Sphinx not based on Hard Evidence really that maybe it was older than the pure

that maybe it goes back earlier so I felt that it wasn't all said and done and you know Pat and sound that the egyptologist necessarily knew what they were talking about in modern times because some of the earlier egyptologist who they held in very high respect supposedly had set different thing secondly and I hate to bring this up but I will because it's part of the background I see my grandmother who I mention a second ago was a ciaza fish and see if you know anything about theosophy it also suggest that you know maybe there's things that go back earlier I die what is at the office I think I should fish itch itch do I explain it you have you heard of blood clots came Madame blavatsky know okay I'm losing my hair was founded in the late 19th century a question a lot of the materialistic values a lot of the

dogma of Science of the time of religion of the time it look to the east in particular to other philosophies other worldviews so basically it was a way this is what it did for me at least and I'm not at the office I don't want to say I'm at the Oscar fish but reading theosophical works on top of everything else allowed me I think to expand my horizons in to see that maybe this dogma of the day is just that the dogma of the day that there are other possibilities and not that way except something just because someone said it or it because it's old or because it's this religion or that religion are that's supposed to be ancient culture but no you keep everything open you look at the evidence and that's really where I was coming from but my point is that even in the late 1980s early 1990s when I first got involved with this if I looked at it critically the evidence was not

definitive for the age of the Sphinx so I was going in with open-minded possibilities but honestly when I first went to Egypt with John Anthony West in 1990 I thought before I got off the plane that this would be simple open-and-shut case I would prove him

wrong in the sense of his assertion that maybe the Sphinx was older I had no doubt that the time that my colleagues in egyptology must know what they're talking about and all of that chain literally within 30 without factory in 3220 seconds of Hircine really thinks yeah it really did it was really depressing because my first impression of the Sphinx was now that I saw it on the ground in person there was something wrong with the Egypt illogical dating because when you look at the Sphinx

has a geologist with a geological I this was not weathered by wind and sand this was not desert erosion and weathering that I saw on the sinks the body of the Sphinx which is very difficult to tell because it's been heavily repaired and reworked but particularly on the walls of what are known as the Sphinx enclosure the Sphinx enclosure is important because it preserves a lot of the details and if you haven't if the audience has not been to Egypt they should realize that when they carve the Sphinx it's all solid Bedrock only the head initially was above the ground surface you carved they carve down into the Rock to free up the body what I called The Core Body of the Sphinx

it is a Core Body and the walls of the enclosure more the security around it if you want to use that term that show these ancient weathering precipitation erosional features that are incompatible with the last five thousand years of climatic history on the Eastern edge of the Sahara so immediately I knew there was something wrong geologically had to figure that out either this was a weird geological anomaly or something else was going on and the Sphinx might go back to her earlier. Also I want to point out that when you look at the Sphinx and other geologist have looked at this as well they did not just chip away at the Rock to carve the body more than she could have chipped away the at the rock with pickaxes and that type of thing shoveled out chips of rock in baskets that live in the easy way what they did is they carved out huge

Alexis Stone and when I say huge we're talkin multi-ton tens of town some of them may be over 50 tons or more of limestone they move those due east of the Sphinx in what is now known as the Sphinx Temple which is still there in ruinous condition and the valley Temple so you had these two huge temples and what is interesting a lot of people don't realize this or they don't think about I think those constructions which are contemporary with the oldest portion of the Sphinx in some ways are more impressive if you think about the technology and what went into constructing them then the age of the Sphinx itself it's not just the Sphinx it's also these Limestone temples that are associated with it and were built contemporaneously So Jamie pulled up to the photos here the first one we pulled up was a computer image that showed the Sphinx and showed up in this image what you can see that's a computer

image that's actually from Mystery of the Sphinx and then there is a inset that's a aerial photograph the real thing and that shows how when they were carving the body they cut out huge blocks and then put them in position to make what's known as the swings Temple due east of the swing and the sex and image is the Sphinx Temple okay if your patience and and right in front of it is the Sphinx Temple so this is a humongous Temple made out of these huge blocks of stone which were carved out when they caught the body of the Sphinx and here you see in this image another picture of the Sphinx Temple and so these erosion you're interested okay these are ocean features on the Block's don't worry about them for the moment okay let's go back to the Sphinx enclosure itself it's a sphinx enclosure where you see the rolling

chelating profile the Roseville features here you saved in that picture to Vertical Fishers and I know you're familiar with this personally because I've heard you talk about it with you that can only be caused by precipitation the rocks are like a layer cake so takes out the softer layers receipts the Softail are some of the hard earlier stick out further but the water also Finds Its way down crevices and cracks natural features that are slightly softer and it pharmacies vertical Fishers I want to make the point because a lot of people get confused they say couldn't be rising Nile flood snow geologically that would give a very different signature on the Rockets not floods coming up from the bottom it's actually precipitation and rainfall runoff coming from above and it could be it could be

much stronger rainfall you know that huge flash floods that type of thing and part of the story that I hope will get to is that additionally I'm jumping around here a little bit, but initially I was thinking five to seven thousand BC that was very conservative based on the geological data based on the seismic which we have to get to also but now I believe we're talkin prior to 9700 BC for the original construction of the Sphinx and we can talk about why the dating and at 9700 BC we have the end of the younger dryas the end of the glacial epic the end of the last ice age I have now put together the story based on evidence when I ever say I say I say I believe something I think something is always based on evidence that I've been piecing together that what we had ending the younger dryas and

the last ice age was a huge eruption from the Sun huge solar Outburst huge climatic changes which put among other things a lot of precipitation a lot of moisture into the air which came down as precipitation with huge floods huge sexually thunderstorms Exedra and I think a lot of the initial erosion that we still see me on the walls of the sinks enclosure go back to that. So you had the situation where you would get this incredible weathering and erosion and then it continued for thousands of years after that and was reinforced until you had the Sahara coming and in relatively recent times in geologically all the same time before that it was some sort of a rainforest it's Savannah to Rainforest it actually very overtime and before that it was very fertile Savannah lots of

plants their people have seen it even in popular movies and whatnot how the Sahara at one point have water and all kinds of animals that's before the end of the last ice age before this these incredible changes that we haven't 9700 BC so that's where the Sphinx I think the original Sphinx goes back to that time. And that's what the Egyptian call Giuseppe this was a first time for them or what I call an earlier cycle of civilization the last cycle the one that we're still part of in my terminology is the last five thousand year so civilization arising Ria merging I should say about 3000 to 4000 BC coming into really

what we have now if you know high-technology Exedra but before that there had been earlier cycle civilization that was essentially snuffed out or brought to its knees if you would by the end of the last ice age and just a map this out. From about 9700 BC this is what I'm reconstructing now to about 4000 to 3000 BC where we have civilization Ria merging between that. So thousands of years 9700 BC to say 3700 BC for round number six thousand years we have essentially a dark. And what I've been now calling sit up solar induce Dark Age serve ironic the sun will induce a dark age because it brought civilization

back to her earlier stage if you would I'm not I'm just not sure if all that what how did the sun do this solar Outburst essentially coronal mass ejection huge eruption bigger than anything we've ever seen on Earth exactly isotope data Etc that indicates this has happened in the past at the end of last ice age and I'm sure it's happened many times over and you have a lot of markers that indicate this year vitrification of rock in fact a lot of the Marcus and I don't want to be debating the issue necessarily but a lot of the markers that people have used for a comment

at the younger dry so during the younger tries through most of them are at the beginning of the younger dryas that's what they're claiming but lots of a lot of the dating is very very iffy but I found it interesting for instance someone will use something as a marker for the younger dry ice and it will give a date of 12000 + or - 4,000 years so yeah this is just the way geology is but I member and I can't remember his name you had a guest on one of your shows he was when I know Randall very well it was on with Carlson and Shermer and I had but he came on by Skype Malcolm Malcolm okay Comet proponent and he started pointed out a lot of the evidence of micros. Glas istre fears on Nano diamond

I don't think he mentioned but I'll mention it shocked quartz Exedra and everyone has been assuming this has to be from a physical impact in the sense of something coming down like a comet or asteroid that type of thing but the problem is you don't necessarily find craters you don't necessarily find the pieces of the comment you should find some physical remain and he mentioned and I found it very interesting he mentioned in passing what I've been working on now for a number of years I know and I was once on the comet Band by can I put it that way and I'm not trying knock

good research but when you look at the evidence

what is not being considered by a lot of people and he mentioned this is in passing so it won't you know something else I could causes lightning

but you wouldn't have lightning and you know that's very localized we think of this is very localized but if you have a major solar Outburst Mayors are coronal mass ejections and astrophysicists just now deceased he was at Cornell Thomas gold who did a lot of really good effect prize-winning working after physics first point. In the 1960s that if you have a major solar Outburst major coronal mass ejection you would get essentially huge what would be like huge lightning strikes over incredible areas of the earth simultaneously this would cost Beach vacation it would cause all these features and just as up within the last year there's been more work done showing that fulgurite swear lightning strikes in modern times even small lightning strikes like that can cause can create things like shocked quartz other quote impact features that people have always said

well it must be a comet or asteroid but you're not finding the craters you not finding other things so what I'm finding are my own research is I'm coming to conclude that it wasn't a physical object that hit us it was a solar Outburst that's general term I use for possible that it was both quite possible that

it could have been both yeah they could have been fragment should both I I can address that and there's a couple of aspects to both when you say both there is indications that comment diving into the sun actually cause coronal mass ejections a correlated with disturbing the Sun so in some cases you will have the Accord the comic group talking about how we go through these, streams periodically I agree 100% in fact I talked about this is on my early books cuz I really was into come it's at the time voices of the pyramid Builders Francis I talk about how come it's my began and ended the younger dryas but I wasn't thinking about solar activity at that time seriously ask no one else was but we now find that comets diving into the sun when we go through, strange that can shut off solar activity so in fact I think it could be both but it could be that the comments are affecting the sun which is then affecting the Earth

other than directly if that makes sense and the other thing is that people have to understand there's a couple things going on so younger dryas 10900 BC when it first begins is a cooling. It's not as dramatic a climate change as you have at 9700 BC when all of a sudden we go from Deep Ice Age climatic regime to Modern are you in a little bit warmer initially modern changes and is it all there yeah there we have some Isotopes and what we have at 9700 BC in this is based on sediment cores and Ice course we also have lunar date of that supports is at 9700 BC we have incredible climatic change going from PewDiePie Sage to Modern War me and this literally now based on what they call Micro stratigraphy from Greenland ice course can be dated Within

got this week's today's wow so this happened little weird talking virtually overnight when I was a graduate student we thought things happen suddenly we were talking thousands of Breyers Ark decades decades for something to happen geologically that be crazy now we're talkin literally weeks today so that's incredible yeah so I think this ties in arch support that there was a massive solar event in 9700 BC all what we had just slide a minute ago when I saw it up the side of my eye was a graph of based on isotope data is what they called proxies of solar activity again based on primarily high score sediment course and the sun was incredibly active in 9700 BC and shortly after there and it had huge if you think of the anthropomorphically mood swings would be very active than it would go very still then very active

and very still and this happened for some thousands of years and then even doubt the sun serve became quite yes and it was during this choir since. That time back into human civilization civilization was able to reemerge redevelop again and we've had incredibly good condition should we say for the last five thousand years quiet condition stable conditions on Earth for civilization to reemerge tank back into that theme but recently the sun has become very active again and we have to be very careful not a doomsayer scaremonger I'm not trying to sell people on being Preppers but the reality is the sun is starting to become active again just as it was at the end of the last ice age and I think this makes perfect sense because the sun is a star it goes through Cycles like other stars do and we're a little

find it or 15 it and we're like all the other plants affected by to keep things about any potential change your studying things that was like it'll be fine we're so inclined to just showing that it's very Aristotelian and in fact I forget who it was one of the astrophysics some decades ago said about the sun it was Sir The Last Vestige of Aristotelian ISM in modern science everyone assume the sun is stable essentially perfect yes it goes through a little Sun cycles of 11 and 22 years and maybe some bigger ones of a few centuries but no one wanted to think of it as what it is just a plain old star that goes through periods of equilibrium we've been in relative solar equilibrium for thousands of years now by coaster disequilibrium and has will call hiccups and

Merchant has to recalibrate itself if you would and we feel the effects on Earth and so at the end of the last ice age we had this massive solar event solar Outburst what they call a solar proton events it was messed up the ionosphere cause all kinds of geomagnetic storms this Tyson with earthquake activity that we see at the end of the last ice age because we now have lots of evidence that solar activity upset said magnetosphere and the Magnetic magnetic fields on the earth the electrical current in the earth it's a trigger earthquakes that are about to happen anyway not unlike I was talking to Katie my wife on the right here in a good analogy is when you have a Avalanche is just about ready to go you can Clap Your Hands In some cases and it sets off this huge Avalanche yeah so

solar activity is tied in with Earth active the earthquake activity for instant volcanic activity should we seek volcanic activity increase volcanic activity give me some major super volcano that went off just at the end of the last ice age will why probably in this is me speaking because of the solar activity that set it off so when you start getting things like platinum and iridium in osmium spikes that's not necessarily extraterrestrial that could be from terrestrial volcanic activity is occurring at that. So yes there's extraterrestrial causes but I think that there's a very strong case to be made that this is solar that this is the sun influencing us which is really important to fast forward to today here we are we are on Skype or using all these electronic media what could be more vulnerable

to a solar Outburst that kind of stuff yeah our power grid power courage will be right there was a and I think we are seeing the beginning of this are we saw the beginning of this because I guess I'm a geologist so I think and Broad terms few hundred years is nothing 1859 are you aware of the Carrington event there was a major solar Outburst from a human perspective major solar outfitters from my astrophysical perspective it was nothing but it was a coronal mass ejection actually two in a row that hit us in 1859 it's known as the Carrington event after Richard Carrington who first saw the solar flares a really bright solar flares that were associated with it was picked up on the Primitive magnetometers of the time that they had for instance in London excetera state by the physicist of the time and 1859 there were

Sonic's around it was called the telegraph system the telegraph system acted as huge antenna that picked up the changing magnetic field generated electricity along it burnt out the telegraph lines literally set Telegraph

yeah that place is where the telegraph operators work on fire Telegraph stations on wire that type of thing if we had a Carrington level event now which is really quite minor from a astrophysical perspective orders of magnitude less than what happened at the end of the last ice age it would fry are grid lines it would knock out all the huge Transformers it would before it did that because it's coming it probably knock out all the satellites on the GPS systems communication I made it would really bring us to our knees is this an article logical Jamie one ordinary print can be read by the Light exactly because you get is these right or roriz these bright what people think of as in northern and southern lights but

1859 they saw them around the world back at the end of the last ice age because they were so powerful but they become more intense they take on very discrete structures in the sky here's some of what are known as shut again northern lights display but see how it starts to take on a discrete structures on the right there and to describe it to the audience to see how serve looks like a person with their hands up in the air they start to take on more more discrete structures found them look like people with their hands up in the air and little legs at something birds have charged particles electrons and protons and what not interacting with the atmosphere and they formed these figures it's electric and it will ultimately come down if you have intense enough one as you did the end of last ice age it would look like if

were there living nail 12000 years ago 10,000 11700 years ago at the end of the last ice age look like God say look like stick figure humans in the sky are you would see huge lightning bolts hitting the Earth in hieroglyphics and all around the world and Anthony Parrott whose formation yeah this is plasma discharge formation plasma is essentially think of is electrically charged particles electrons protons that type of thing as it comes off the side in this case think of a coronal mass ejection a huge ball of charge gas that's one way to describe it hitting the atmosphere driving down into the

atmosphere causing these like Northern Lights on steroids if you want to put that way very specific images that look like stick figure accepted many cases are spinning electrical you wouldn't notice that they were spinning back early and they look sort of like because we tend to answer for more fights we tend to look at keeping Cloud to rock formations and we make them look like what we think they look like so they look serve like stick figure man and is any photograph for these just graphic illustration but we know because we haven't experienced this Fortune play and since photography but we do have are petroglyphs dating back to the end of last ice age where people were seeing this in the sky and they were drawing it on the walls of caves on the walls of rocks and Anthony. Who's a Los Alamos

plasma physicist he is the world's expert on this type of high-energy plasma physics these are some of the illustrator from all over the world looking all over the world Arizona Italy it's all the same thing it's all the same thing and I noticed to that how they look like stick figures but they have little weird dots on their side donut real humans don't have that but they're seen this around the world in the sky and recording it also the motif of when these take on certain form they take on what look like birds heads so the bird headed man a motif that you see around the world going back and I believe it all goes back to the end of the last ice age and what people were experiencing what they were seeing if you want to call it God's in the sky or whatever but they were seeing this and it was having a real effect on their life and what is causing that very specific pattern that very specific shape T or C

the way the way I would say it the best way to say it is you got this this is simplistic but you got these huge electrical charges coming down they serve Focus like a tornado focuses or if you think of running water out of a spicket if you play with it you can search squeeze it and make it form different shapes that serve my analogy to it and it's the magnetic and electric field interacting with each other each other sometimes they serve spin around each other like a rope and in that they would stration hear you see how do you say. Your presence experiments where he is to reproduce that shape over and over and over again that's right exactly and then it gets even more fascinating and this is something that ties in waxy with Katie my wife Catherine Ulysse in piraat team has confirmed it on Easter Island you have the wrong go wrong goes script which also duplicates this

seems to be a record the modern rongorongo or only few hundred years old but just like any manuscript or anything it was copied over and over and seems to go back to it too and if you look at some of the wrong go wrong go and I know a lot of your audience can't see this but you look at some of them they're even more definitive showing what crop was able to reproduce experimental Lee and there they have it recorded from ancient times so when you're talking about this event that happened at the end of the younger dryas what like put it in perspective like we talked about like a hurricane * 1000 like what would it be like without a million yeah I mean literally supposed to comprehend possible to comprehend from our point of view my perspective our perspective and there's more to it than that you would have incredible radiation level

set the surface of the Earth Paul De Violetta physicist I know and he's published on this has talked about how during the event like this you will have levels of radiation that were so high that large mammals we are more large mammals large mammals if they couldn't protect themselves they could die within 3 to 6 7 days a week or so how do you protect yourself you go underground you go into caves you go into places because Rock will protect you from the surface radiation under the circumstances are now you don't need to stay there forever you can you know because these solar events probably came now this is hypothetical because we've not experienced a huge one like this but they probably came and then it went back off a little bit but then maybe another one will come again I'm a geologist so think of a huge earthquake and then aftershocks aftershocks that can actually last Century's or Millenia in some case

just feel smaller ones so something that was happening and you see this around the world to is that where people survived I believe in part because they had access to Natural caves initially then they built underground structures for when they came again and it also encouraged are developed this whole tradition should we say of having a place to go even if it's not occurring at the moment they knew that these things do occur at least for some thousands of years and we're aware of this so we're being prepared and now she uses during the Cold War here what did a lot of people building their backyards founder bunkers so they were doing this also so you get areas here I see there's a slight of India up at the moment Cappadocia region is very well don't know the ground how do they know to get into initially I think I mean you got literally Fire coming down from the sky

lightning bolt fire I mean if you got a cave are you going to it's the only thing that's going to protect protect canvas fire lightning that is going to set things on fire and you Charlie incinerate but just lightning everywhere and that's why you have huge sheets of glass in some cases wow so that's where it hit its flash vaporizing it from City water it's Vape to the Seahawks massive floodings the precipitation massive flash floods and while I'm over there so we talked about I think incredible I think incredible because for instance we had can document linguistically

other people's work but I think it ties right in they haven't been explained it coaches the other wife that there is for instance in Turkey Middle East there is a constriction of the population to the Anatolia region Cappadocia where you have these underground shelters you have a geology that was easy to go into an escape and it linguistically we can map back are Indo-European languages to a small pocket that survive there at the end of the last ice age wow so you know I think there was a mess around the world he would have had population being constricted and then they spread out again and when they were constrict it there I see the slight there for the linguistic when you constrict down in one area of course you lose a lot of Technology you lose a lot of the high

call sure if you wear I know you go back to a much more primitive stage and that's what we find so we find for instance in Anatolia of Western turkey near near Asia as it was called in ancient times you fine not only of course you got things like go back Lee Cafe which goes back before this

huge catastrophe what's the Monumental stone make a list excetera but what you find there 2000 years later and the same general area you find friends since childhood like which is a bunch of mud brick houses all clustered together it's going down it's gone into what I call a Katie and I call sit at this solar induced Dark Age where they lost a lot of it not unlike in and out yeah I think it's easy for people understand analogies the end of the Roman Empire and everything that was lost there and then go into a much more primitive state with the Dark Ages the European Dark Ages in this case you look at the technology it was much higher and during the Roman Empire until maybe 1,000 or 1280 again in many Realms same thing here although this was such a mighty throwback it took thousands of years

people to reemergence at least start to get up to the status now they had been before presented this in front of other Scholars yeah it's going well there's a lot of resistance oh, academic I don't want to sound the wrong way I'm not looking for sympathy but going out on limbs like this going to try getting with the redating of the Sphinx and that's what we're eating even finished with that yet

there's a lot of resistance to anything that's new any new ideas textbooks and Brandon Rich have been rich and people are States they're giving out Stylistics take the reputation on it and I understand that and I try not to be that myself you know the old this is my pet fee right but I do try and look at the evidence I think that slowly rebuilding up more more interest more more at least people looking at it objectively and I do see changes occurring a one thing I'll mention right now is as of relatively recently nuts are still very very small but at Boston University I've been allowed to found what is called the iso see that

Institute for the study of the origins of civilization which is really just meet at the moment I'm not trying to send the wrong way but I'd like to get people to donate to it Exedra Exedra I'm also I found I found it with some colleagues of mine including some academic call Oracle which stands for the organization for the research of ancient cultures so we're bringing it into the mainstream both there's a private not-for-profit Foundation as Eye Institute through Boston University to really be looking at these things when I say professional way what I mean by that is you know evidence-based way but also looking outside the standard dog must a standard box of standard paradigms and the standard vested interest because so much science now that people say to me all the time I think science is supposed to be objective well maybe it is supposed to be objective but who are the scientist doing it

they have all their subjective bias these Notions invested interest I'm not trying not to anyone but but it's a fact it's just a human fact and one of the things that happened in the documentary from 1993 that I was kind of stunned by was the reaction by the conventional Egypt ologist when you brought up this evidence where he was very dismissive almost mockingly in this weird sort of a way where he was like culture where is this place is mine right now is yes as well as well credential this anyone that's why I appreciate you have stuck your neck out for so long

in this research since that time have I been punished yes yeah I'm sure the iPad calling say to me in no uncertain terms very well meeting that I could have had a wonderful career and have all the promotions advancements going out through the academic you know later if you would with no problems if I just stuck to my you some little specialty that no one really cared about so you got an impacted gigantic impact on people like me to work on for instance one of my specialties is a graduate student was paleocene-eocene mammal evolution

would I be talking to you about that now maybe today maybe if it was interesting when you were doing that you were talking like I one of the things that he was saying in this dismissive ways where is he having to this culture we have Gobekli Tepe lap and that was the American Association for advancement of science debate on the Sphinx turned out I thought I was going in for a real debate I thought it was going to be a great debate we're really going to ask us the evidence back and forth I brought all my data the seismic data which is very very important which we haven't even touched ground yet other types of data we haven't touched. Because I want to make the point is much more than a little bit of weathering on the Sphinx and I've heard so many critics even to my face I say what you don't read date civilization based on the weather in profile

much more than weathering profile the weather in profile and erosions the easiest thing to explain and yes it's what I saw initially in that first 3220 seconds because that's before I brought in equipment and we're driving time to Becky to do seismic work to do other types of more detailed analysis I would not be talking to you today if it was such a rotational profile I buy for my own self I would not good enough stock in that. But when it ties in with everything else we have a coach and picture but game back to someone being dismissive like that that was 1992 the Beckley Tempe had technically been discovered back in the 1960s but they miss stated it completely they thought was maybe a thousand or two thousand years old Byzantine or Roman Greco-Roman. Not end of the last ice age not yell 12000 years old and how did they make the distinction that it was

4000 years old is based on the soil samples in about 1994-95 so couple of years after that dismissive comment from the egyptologist Parklane are who I think is the specific person you're referring to him at the American Association for the advancement of science debate which I just went to make the comment I went into that thinking that was going to be a debate I came out of it realizing that they were just trying to set me up to put me down and shut me up forever which they were not successful in doing I think that they're so reluctant to just listen to the evidence and look at the information and and and consider the possibility that maybe there had been an ancient civilization because the standard standard story and also upsets a lot of people's concept 2 progression and this is something John Anthony West like to talk about the whole he called at the church of Progress Street that we've

better and better and better and I talked to so many people that think that we are the end-all and be-all where the best that there ever has been well maybe we are in terms of certain types of technology and I'm not making any claim that people in the past could ever do what we're doing now doing a podcast with all the electronics but as I pointed out that also makes this really vulnerable things but I would argue that there is a nacho remote possibility that they knew things that we don't know that they may have understood things that we don't understand they may have had a worldview that would benefit us to at least have a feel for it I mean I don't want to golf on spiritual tank so I could if I want to or philosophical tangent but I also have a training this anthropologie's Anthropologist I have it under undergraduate degree in anthropology on top of everything else and I'm fascinated by

man approaches to life in their environment and their situation and I'm convinced that we do have things to learn from the Ancients whether it's the really remote ancient or the more recent ancient Rome only 5000 years ago even dynastic Egypt and that it's not all simply a one-way progress that there are fits and starts that there have been high points and low points in high Point's again and I'm not frankly convinced that we're at the highest point when it comes to certain aspects we might be a high point with certain types of Technology but I'm not convinced that we were at a high point when it comes to construction. We are not high point with Bryan much less get into this philosophical or spiritual or whatever you want to call it and we don't think of it as technology because we think of technology is being something it's electronic

are there other Technologies and if you ask me how did they build the pyramids I will tell you I don't know if you ask me how they constructed the Sphinx Temple they carved out those huge blocks of stone that can weigh 50 or more tons and move them in such tight spaces with such tight tolerances I don't know I'm am just people say you know you bringing thousands of slaves or what. But there's no evidence for that and where would you have them stand when you're building the Sphinx Temple right now there's not enough room to nurses Etc are so big even thousands of slaves struggle to move them now we're not talking about that but it's this is been said before and I've seen my device in there in person about seeing off the Record document footage of it when they tried to just construct a little.

with very small blocks and then they end up using modern machines and they still aren't very successful I mean so there's a real resistance I find among Allah my academic College to want to even suggest that people could have known things in the past that we don't know now or if they knew something the path that we don't know now it was so trivial that it was worth forgetting worth not worry about so there's this that concept I find an amazing and I hate to be sure to pick some broad brushing but many egyptologist when I read their works or I listen to them at conferences Exedra and I get the impression that they might love egyptology and studying the ancient Egyptians but they also have this few that all these guys made wonderful temples and had some fantastic art but really you

primitive and hahaha isn't that silly and you sure I mean it's like the shelves shop in to build of this idea of ultimate progress the Giant Slayer back and scientific evidence and data in the egyptologist rejecting it but just recently in the last couple of years have you heard about the project on the Great Pyramids a big void they've been using mammography which is a highly sophisticated technique using muons that come from outer space or come from the atmosphere they go through the pyramid you can set up detectors long-term and pick these up there serve like X think of x-rays technology but using muons which are served exotic particle that most people are not aware of because I just

pass right through us without interacting but when you got massive Stone massive Stone will block some of them so you can pick up essentially image over a long period of time so this is really high tech physics very expensive a Consortium of physicist did work on the Great Pyramid I think it's still on going but they put up your tens of millions of not more worth of a sophisticated physical physics equipment I have a degree in geophysics geology and geophysics I have some ability to evaluate this type of data where is I hate to say a lot the egyptologist don't and I found that with my own data when I shared my own day.

not be nasty but they didn't know what they were looking at which is somewhat understandable since it's not their training you have with the Great Pyramid just recently last couple of years published in nature a very prestigious Journal they found what they believe is evidence for a huge void above the grand gallery that has never been known before and yeah there we have a picture of it the egyptologist have been so resistant to the saying this is nonsense there can't be we don't basically the can't be anything new that we don't know about or if it is it's just trivia what you some space between the Rocks it's nothing important but what I wanted to say what you was really important um egyptologist actually called for the whole project to be closed down because they don't like the results and they call it quote propaganda

close down but you cut the scientific project look at the day that they don't want more data collected that might contradict their standard someone would actually call for that because this isn't even their study of their field of study right so that they're saying is nonsense but this is not something they study in the first practice this voice that we're looking at here in these images explain to people that are just listening what we're seeing what you're saying is they called hidden chamber there but you can see how it's parallel to the Grand Gallery the grand galleries is huge gallery that goes up to the king's chamber in the Great Pyramid that's deep in the pyramid pyramid hidden chamber is above that may be close to the same size of it it's hard to tell with until it gets probe now you have to drill into it and maybe put a camera in but I've seen the raw data my point is I've seen the raw data

I certainly think it's important their interpret correctly now the proof will be in the pudding as they say if they ever entered at least put a probe into it but my point right now is to just dismiss the data is nonsense to call for the whole project to be shut down is nonso surviving Egyptian close to the ministry and my point is they've done the same thing to me so for instance when we did seismic work and we found the chamber under the left paw the Sphinx that's never been explored since at least not to my knowledge and they just dismissing say we know there's nothing there and that was despite the fact that we also found the chamber at the rump of the Sphinx which I didn't know about the time but they already knew about it confirmed that our data was good cuz we were finding something they knew about but when we find something they don't know about and they don't want to be there they just missed it and

don't want to pursue it further or the one that's in the rump it's probably not super significant it probably is just maybe a Greco-Roman or late. You know burial or or some kind of excavation the one I believe is important is under the left part of the Sphinx which I believe is archived actually may go back to this very early. Because we now have hieroglyphic evidence indicating that indicates in our car so recently in this gets back to the Sphinx so we started this portion of the discussion with the Sphinx in my initial observations of the Sphinx and one of my observations was that there's something going on with the weathering and erosion on the Sphinx the second observation this is within the first 2 minutes at most

what's that the head is too small for the body the head is not eroded the way they Core Body is is not a wrote the way the walls of the strings closure are it's not the original hat I

hate to say this way but I knew immediately that was not the original hat from a geological point of view and I believe that's now since been fully confirm that this is not the original head it was a three-car cat show for a long time the question has been in my mind and we talked about this evil mystery of the Sphinx what was the original head of the Sphinx what was the Sphinx originally we speculated and other people speculate my opinion on Lion for instance Leo because it faces on the equinoxes the constellation Leo in the sky

not today but 10000 BC or so more less at the very end of the last ice age. I've had a lot of colleagues of mine academic College say that's nonsense doesn't mean anything because they weren't even recognizing the constellations back then we now have plenty of evidence at least some of the constellations that we recognize today Leo I would put in that category off a Taurus is in that category a Ryan is in that Court category some of them we don't have the ones I just mentioned the

tell these are constellations that go back well into the end of the last ice age we have documents of that we have from Mammoth bones where you have a Ryan carved on it we have Taurus shown in cave walls we have Leo Sean so it's to me it's fascinating that some of these constellations that we recognize today we're recognize tenths of thousands of years ago so I talk to me it's not nonsense that they call a structure 10000 BC approximately that was facing its own image in the sky so one suggestion was that maybe it's Leo but recently my new safe today dr. Manu saves the day had another colleague of mine he recognized initially that there is a title what's known as a dual title in dynastic Egypt that goes back to the 4th Dynasty and an even back to the first dynasty with the earliest writing and it when properly transfer

basically refers to the Sphinx as the guardian up an archive and not the Sphinx's we think of it as a lion with a human head but as a lion and there was a name for this lioness method she was a goddess met who guarded archive and we wrote a paper on that when I say we my new save today myself and Robert Duvall he may know up from a Ryan correlation service his work Tyson with this that archeoastronomy but we've now found that there is a sign which we name the JW sign in honor of that's awesome it's under John Anthony West there it is there so JW sign and what you see here it's a lioness met hit which was the Sphinx originally based on our reconstruction interpretation and can't go into all the details now you can actually people can read the paper

if I could put a plug in if people go to my website www. Robert shock and that's Robert Roberts choc I guess my name is spelled s c h o c h w w w Roberts shack.com they can go I did a popular summary of the paper and they can also go and download the original paper in the peer-review journal archaeological Discovery where we argue that what we have here is the Lioness met hit she has what looks like a bent Rod coming out of her back

open people look at the actual image and then above it is acts so yeah it's it's a primitive axe when I say primitive even for the ancient Egyptians in dynastic Egypt it would have been Starbucks symbolic axe if you would which was a sign of someone who was in charge of things to overseer that type of thing the bent Rod what is that that's a primitive key we would Now call the Primitive key but it represents a key and so it's basically saying that this is the guardian of the archives of Matt hit the lock chamber or Vault of method and we also have images I see it up on the board now if you look at you've got the Lioness with the key and you also have a line is not in that image by different image that we had before if you look at that can you see how there's a lioness or diagram

shape over what looks like a facade okay if you've been go to the

Stella that sits between the boss of the Sphinx you have the same image much more artistically rendered of the Sphinx sitting over a facade over what looks like a building it's not really a building it's the archive underneath I believe which long ago and the early 1990s Thomas the Becky and I when we did seismic work around the Sphinx we found the chamber under the paws of the Sphinx and it's I'm sure the artificial chamber it's very regular and this I believe could well be I'm hypothesizing and in science we make hypothesis that are testable this is perfectly testable all we have to do is enter that chain work even if it's just to put a fiber optic down and we can see isn't it artificial chamber that's an archive hopefully there's still things there or maybe it was guided and cleaned out

some point but here we have the seismic work one of the seismic Maps I'll call to my traffic data and what label is normally a under the left paw that is the chamber we found under the left paw that the egyptologist have went to deny ever since and they don't want to explore it and we haven't gotten permission to make any sense to me well I know but this is what this physical evidence of politics in Egypt 1991 or so early 1990s as of last year 2017 we have textual evidence ancient hieroglyphs talking about this chamber talking about the Sphinx talking about the Sphinx being a lioness Gardena chamber and I want to point out that the earliest hieroglyphs that we have that refer to this are about 33,000 through

100 BC which is hundreds of years before the egyptologist claim the swings was even thought about being carved wood somewhere on 2500 BC y500 cards with the construction the Great Pyramid of Giza question because I don't buy that it's more can we come back yet at the Sphinx was first car 2500 BC yet there's no mention of the carving of the Sphinx then they cite the image that's another stuff they cite the top most 4th dream Stealth at which is 1000 + years later which had at one point a partial cartoon of kafra partial cartoon which is since like the way it was there at reputedly in the 19th century the river

drawings of it

which way to put in there plug-in just if people are interested in getting more information Robert Duvall and I wrote a book last year published last year call Origins at the Sphinx where we discussed a lot of this but met him is a more recent discovery so there's a partial Cartouche of kafra which Egypt ologist sent off haha this proves that cough for carve the Sphinx because the Sphinx it's due east of Crawford pyramid copper was the Pharaoh in 2500 BC there for the Sphinx must be 2500 BC I contend and Robert Duvall and other people who are in our line of thinking content that this Stella that's over a thousand thousand over a thousand years later does not say that they carved he carved the Sphinx but that He restored the Sphinx

just like Pat Moses the fourth who was putting up the Stella was restoring the Sphinx and when you look at the Sphinx it has been restored numerous times include blocks of limestone that were put onto it to restore some of the very ancient weathering that when I asked why he was one of my biggest critics how old those blocks so he said they were 4th Dynasty now why would you restored in the fourth Dynasty when it had just been built you literally a century or two ago you don't need to restore a meter worth of whether his his answer and I'm not trying to make fun of him is that it's rotten rock that wasn't very high-quality rocks with how somehow it just crumbled away you know meter so my size in a couple hundred years Graham Hancock yeah but that's another issue I don't mind getting to that guy because

let me just say this way there there sooner there was. Just signs going on there there was politics going on it so you know there's a lot going on in at 2 and I've known all these people for just to the signs right now but there's go back well over 4,000 years which makes no sense if it's exactly that there was no

descriptions or anything really referring to the Sphinx until New Kingdom times we point out in Origins at the shanks Robert Vaughn I that no you have to know what they were calling the Sphinx and now with Matt hit we have inscriptions they find that when did they find this lioness and when do they what does you're saying this is very reason my co-author just discovered that I don't know exactly when he found the inscription but he first pointed out to Robert Duvall myself about a year ago a year ago and we all worked on it and confirmed it and put together the pieces I mean he really gets the most credit for it I'm he he he he knows his heart lifx really where they files hieroglyphic of the snow and it's a Shonen several different Oz

ancient artifacts so for instance there's a statue of a Vizio from the 4th Dynasty who may have actually oversee the construction of the Great Pyramid or I would say the Reconstruction of the Great Pyramid cuz I might get back to that I think the Great Pyramid just like the Sphinx was being reconstructed refurbished if you would during the Old Kingdom not constructed denovo but he was overseeing that he must have had something to do with the Sphinx he was apparently the given the title of being the overseer for the Spanx that type of thing but turns out this title was something he had in khufu's time

witches pharaoh before supposedly when the Sphinx built to begin with so that messes up the Egypt logical thinking right there but this title was something that had been held by others before him back down to about 31 or so hundred BC 5000 years ago again 500 or more years before the Sphinx was supposedly built

so now we have this hair glyphic text that goes back refutes what the egyptologist are saying and not only that but when you look at the way they ride this is the earliest writing so it's not surprising we don't have anything earlier maybe eventually will find earlier you know the precursors but they are also in the context it seems abundantly evident they're referring to it as a very old structure itself wow now how do Egypt ologist receive this it's just making its way into the logical Cami 5416 it all before and you know it's a classic thing to that in some cases

so I'll put it relate to the Sphinx

and maybe hopefully somewhat analogous I pointed out that Kate should go and John Anthony West and I working on this at the Sphinx the head is not the rich and I'm not sure if I'm the fairy first one to ever say that I'm not going to try to take credit but was quite obvious to me when I as I mentioned without anyone saying that to me I had not heard that someone else suggest that since then

egyptologist with a course out ever siding me or John Anthony West have also been suggesting that in some cases and some have suggested that maybe it was khufu's face on the Sphinx rather than coffers face after we brought in Frank Domingo who demonstrate that's not covers face Frank Domingo if you remember for mystery of the Sphinx was New York City police officer forensic expert who literally what reconstruct faces compare faces that was his business into presented in court he analyzed the face of the Sphinx in the face of coffee also known as chef Ron the Pharaoh the egyptologist before our time before we got involved in this always said these were the same faces to face of the Sphinx to face the copper Frank Domingo came out very defensive leave that they're not the same face and they're both competent artist or not frankly the same ethnicity of face

and for Mark lehner to publishing National Geographic that the I'll paraphrase from the Sphinx came alive when he reconstructed with the face of Chevron or face of conference just that's not science that that some

you know of wish fulfillment or something he wanted to be the face of a certain Pharaoh he does work computer research construction with it having the face of the Pharaoh he wants it to be and then pass the side office somehow

I guess science so there's no need to apologize not necessarily science either and I'm not saying that nasty way but it's important point because egyptology a lot of Egypt ologist classically come more from a art history background that type of thing show tying in with the question you asked before I literally it's funny how things work I literally when I was in graduate school took a seminar in sciences and other disciplines you know this was because I was being trained as a scientist and one of the papers we had to read at the time this was long before I ever thought about going to Egypt was how egyptologist are resistant to scientific information and scientific data and how to help me a try to overcome that if you're working fish Puffs basically what's answer was it very difficult and it's not to put them down because I have lots of college and other fields are not science

Grant classically I would contend egyptology is not a science it comes more from art history or from linguistic studies unit translating hard lives on historical studies and is all very important academic studies but you do sometimes get people in a certain feel in the resistant to Outsiders from another field specially when they think it's a field that so far apart and so diverse from what they understand what they know their own mindset and their minds that is not geared toward scientific data yeah and I'm not again I'm not trying to be nasty it's just so when you initially saw these are erosion features and and you will be the first 30 to 90 seconds or whatever you said it was a hundred 20 seconds when you first looked at it and new

did you have any idea that your life would take the turn that it's taken me did you have any indication you would be thrown into such a shitstorm all these all these years later we are 2018 you're still fighting the good fight S1 said introducing me he ruined he ruined my life 25 years later I still swinging I know I attacked and I'm still at the time I still was not that far I'll graduate school you thought you could just resent the evidence we stand on its own if you're going to go to that thing so naive and so we first present the evidence at the Geological Society of America annual meeting in 1991 I guess it was 1991

I want to say bluntly the vast majority of geologist you know hundreds literally thought this is amazing this is great it made start making some headlines around the world literally there are one or two geologist there that turns out turns out we're working for egyptologist they and think they're so great because I saw the implications for the age of illogical call legs and they started you know a little rumbling there then the journal is coming back then you'll know internet like we have it now just phones and the journalist start calling Egypt all just that we're not there had not seen the data Etc immediately they were telling the journalist that this has to all be nonsense that hundreds of Egypt ologist have studied this for you know two or three centuries which is total nonsense it turns out I knew every Egypt all just cuz they're so few that have actually stayed the Sphinx personal life is really just too

they were just trying to dismiss it and then the Egypt I'll just come back and say we know this is nonsense essentially I'm paraphrasing we know that the pyramids were not built by aliens so they start bringing aliens and UFOs essentially just to dismiss dismiss me and I wasn't talking about Total Drama number one we could talk about that and I wasn't talking about aliens they hadn't been there they hadn't seen the data it was so bizarre and hindsight and I was so frustrated trying within the positions they were just really just attacking and then in age of the one point they were putting things in the Arabic press little did they know I have no friends that would read it to me and they were saying that I wasn't even a faculty member at Boston University which is an outright lie since I just been 10 years so there was no doubt I was a faculty member there but this was other academic saying this but

never thought we get back to me I mean really really mean so so they shut up in this was I think unprecedented within months that shut up this debate at the AAA s American Association for the advancement of Science and I thought again I was so naive I thought it rid of all this nonsense in his name calling and nail the stuff in the popular press that journalists you can't blame them they don't know what's going on necessarily it will really get the evidence out and will be able to discuss it same lie and objectively turns out that wasn't the case at all it was just from my perspective they were just calling me more names and trying to set up strong man and this egyptologist who was in the documentary who dismissed everything soon as this position at all

spoken with him for years and years and years I did you ever speak with him off the Record personally alone what was his I guess was off the rack I don't think I would have said this years ago but I'll say it now at that debate at that the bay AAA estivate he I just suddenly found in myself in the hall with him and there was no one else around so he could totally deny this but it's true my perspective at least he said something to me like you know if you don't really believe this I know you don't really believe that she just want to be on television and you know

be famous or something like that he said I said no I believe in you know I really go by the evidence I do think that says this and he was telling me that no you don't do you know he was like I don't know if it'll I see me what are some detail question about the geology and well if that's the case how can such and such and I think it in hindsight my been fed to him by some Geo archaeologist if they call someone who does archaeology but knows a little geology and I realized in hindsight it was meant to be one of those got you questions I guess I say nowadays where I wouldn't be able to answer but no I the course I thought about it it was to me as a geologist very obvious I start giving him this detailed explanation as to why that's not the case then why you know my evidence stands up blah blah blah

and we're standing there face-to-face I'm explain this to him and I see his face her turn and it goes blank and I'm in mid-sentence he just turns around and walks away he couldn't repeat what you were saying she don't want to feel what I was saying and he wasn't really in my takeaway is that he wasn't interested in discussing rationally or and he just wanted to win the debate or whatever he wasn't going to with you he just got out of there and again you know we should just a personal thing there was no other witnesses to my knowledge of this but if he had really wanted to discuss things I was going to discuss it with them that's not what you sound so disturbing that someone would put their own ego so far above the information and needs to be distribute to Scholars and people and students and all these folks out there that have questions about the history of the human race

someone would put their own reputation and eagle above all of that and not have the the the the mindset to realize well we have new evidence and what we thought up before we're going to have to apply to this new evidence and create a new time line it doesn't dismiss all the things they learn the past that rewriting districts that are well yes I understand that argument and I think we do need to rewrite good chunks of our very early history but I've never denied dynastic Egypt and the basic chronology for dynastic Egypt now what I say is that we've got a whole new chapter to add to it going back in time plus and I want to mention the Great Pyramid Hair Plus things like the Great Pyramid the standard day for the Great Pyramid site site 2550 BC or so the Pharaoh Khufu also known as cheops just in case people hear those terms

I don't deny that he had something to do with the Great Pyramid but when I studied geological and I don't want to go into great detail your when I study at geologically I think there was a older structures there I think there was something else there for instance the Subterranean chamber I suspect goes back much earlier than the time of 4th Dynasty Khufu show Frances to bring and Robert Duvall he has his Ryan correlation of the three pyramids to the Belt stars of Orion which correlate very well at about 10500 BC so he'll talk and we talk about this in our joint book origins of the Sphinx how there was a master plan going back to that. La people have said they'll that's nonsense why would they be follow a master plan thousands of years later when they finally went got around to building these structures I don't think that's the case at all I think they were earlier markers or structures at those spots the pyramids in this case those three major pyramids

built over are enhanced are restored older structures and I don't make sense so friend sits under the Great Pyramid is what I call the sacred bound it's actually literally a stone outcropping man and John Paul Duvall Robert Duvall's older brothers actually architect Robert Duvall himself was trained as an engineer they both make the point of minor things that if you're building the Great Pyramid this is a humongous structure with Incredible weight it's much easier to flatten the plateau at that point and get a nice level base rather than try to build over around amount that's to this day incorporate within the Great Pyramid this takes a lot more energy and work and some much more difficult engineering feet but it makes sense if you're you want to preserve that if it was sacred to them or whatever that older structures

the solar structure you can't see it at this point because it's totally covered but we have something very analogous and I know you mentioned this when John Anthony West was on The Red Pyramid is also built over an older structure and you can see that to this day in one of the chamber's where you have this much older structure I'm talking geologically now based on the evidence we have some images there where you have this older weathered structure which I believe goes back I don't know how much older but thousands of years older let's just leave it at that and then they built the Pyramid over it and around it I think marking it you know how much older structure and you could tell by the way you can see the sharp divided between the older structure and the newer structure which is nice finally cut stone and that newer structure goes back earlier than the

pyramid I mean this is sneferu this is even earlier by a generation so you have this where they're using and dynastic Egypt older structures there really appropriating them you have the case here I believe you have that with the Great Pyramid believe you had to have that with a second pyramid you have that with the Sphinx most definitely and the valley temple in the Sphinx Temple the first piece of evidence that really convinced me that something was going on with the Sphinx so

the first evidence that I saw that made me suspicious that the egyptologist did not have it right was within that first 32/122 I describe the weather in the head too small the first piece of really solid evidence was looking at the walls of the Sphinx and Valley Temple that were constructed from the stones that came out of the Sphinx enclosure we talked about that they are weather but then they were cut back a little bit that weathering was cut back and they were resurfaced or refaced with granite in dynastic times it's believed so what you have is an older structure and here's a diagram for anyone that's looking at but what you have is older Limestone temples which are massive which were then faced with granite but what they did they did it the hard way they preserved as much of the older Limestone Temple as possible before refacing with granite so they actually took

time in some cases to cut the backs of the Granite blocks to fit the weather surface of the Limestone weather Limestone totally make a nice flat surface and then replaster so speak regretted it and what you all should I think it was supported for them it's like if we have a National Monument now that goes back to Revolutionary War Daisy was preserve as much of the original structure is possible if it makes it more difficult to do the restoration you put the effort into it just to clarify so you feel that this time. Of the the coronal mass ejection Mass ejections was somewhere around 10000 BC BC and I say that very specifically because based on Greenland ice

core data in particular you can literally count back year by year and the best estimate is about 9700 BC and I'll give him take a decade or so from that point to 2500 BC which is where most conventional egyptologist date the construction of the the pyramid you believe that the Great Pyramid was probably built on top of his great Mound which represented in older structure but correct people that their civilization was destroyed it's right in thousands of years later we're able to somehow or another rebuild the permit as it was before or they were building up on top of it has changed some of the incredible wisdom and knowledge

Hideout think of Judea christianism I mean we still have like the Temple Mount we have places where we know that there were older structures Solomon's Temple excetera and maybe only a fragment of it is left but we still held in high esteem veneration modern structures are built around or over these relics I think that's somewhat of an analogy of acropolis in the Parthenon of older if I could use and I'm not used to this early using a religious term to mean to just be respect yes so I think that for all three of the major pyramids on the Giza Plateau we have evidence that there was something there whether they were pyramids as we see them now which is quite a possibility and they were just refurbished or something else we have

evidence that goes back to that much earlier. Before the demise of high civilization if I could put that way at the end of the last ice age and then it was really appropriate reused rebuilt restored whatever term you want to use in dynastic Egyptian times another example

have you been to any trip I didn't think you had you need to come I need to show this to you in person I like

stop it may not with me because I don't know why but I have enough contacts I have enough contacts backed out and digital just give people perspective of time that she 2005 in the years ago the conventional dating of the construction Great Pyramids Cleopatra is closer to the construction of the iPhone then she is to the construction of the Great Pyramids long a history you're dealing with when it comes to ancient Egypt so we're talking about thousands and thousands of years for sure and this is for sure that was just from Cleopatra to the 2500 BC which is what almost all the egyptologist except you're dealing with just a giant leap that is right here's that we could see it here

try and hand soap and we are closer to the dynastic Egyptians even the Old Kingdom dynastic Egyptians we are closer to them in times and they were to the end of the last ice age in the demise of that earlier civilization so this has the dynastic Egyptian dynastic the rose rough terms 5000 years ago that was about 3000 BC that was they arose over 6,000 years after close to 7000 years after the end of the last ice age so

that's crazy yeah that's hard hard for her we're talkin are you looking at we're looking at a chart right here is our place or other people can go and see this like this is on my website in the City article if you go to my website Robert shocked again www. Robert schoch s c h o ch.com and go to the website you'll see charts like this but what you should do is go to the main page of the website and then I believe it is research highlights go to Whatsapp Hall research highlights actually I think for those on the podcast are seeing here and then go to What's called the sitter article Sida in the highway looking at it on the website which stands for solar induced Dark Age Sid and again it's ironic I think that the sun which of course is pride could induce a dark age but when you have a major eruption like this a major Outburst from

Sun hitting Earth and all the ramifications we were talking about it's going to bring any civilization down to its knees thousands and thousands of years of rebuilding civilization and Rising back up to some still unbelievable incredible technological level so even if they did rebuild the pyramid at 2500 BC it's still this incredible feat it's incredible. For 2500 BC before if I could just finish the thought that I start to have I was saying we have to go Egypt together okay and I could show you some of the cash that I have to why would take you among other things around the second pyramid the second pair of that you can see evidence I would point out to you that I interpret as going back to earlier structure furthermore II. Pyramid few people seem to pay attention this has a ring a ring of granite

the base that's significant because they were using granite in many cases and conventional egyptologist have confirmed to this confirm this verbally with me they what use Granite when they were indicating they were restoring an older structure and there's no question that Granite goes back to the 4th Dynasty just like there's no

question that the granite on the valley and sphinx Temple goes back to at least the fourth Dynasty if not earlier but they're using it to restore so we have all of this indication that dynastic Egypt acknowledged that they were restoring older structures I'm so game back to where we were just on the Great Pyramid so no matter how you look at it to try to do build the Great Pyramid today whether you're talking 2500 BC or earlier I mean how were they doing it how are they doing I don't know I told you that I am not going to try to get into how they did I'm that's they did it it's there you know it's it's I have I thought about it a lot yes whether I'm there in Egypt on side or elsewhere and mean it's Incredibles I don't have the answer for you is it possible that the people in that part of the world somehow or another survived the coronal mass ejection in

they came out better than the people in other parts of the world that we really knocked into the Stone Age Gap around the world rent that this should have Gap but I still starkel get what they were doing in Egypt is incomparable one could argue so it may well be that they found all the right materials all the right environment sand Nile Valley and its height which is not as hell right now at the end of cigarettes safer reemergence may have just been a hit to say the Goldilocks words but just right for everything to come together for this to me I'll come together at a very fertile areas very easily

defended that type of thing and also I do want to tell you in with what you were saying it is not certainly thought about this it is possible that we are electrical and the fluctuating electric fields are my neck feels good to have some influence or from brain development or yeah that's real speculation but I wouldn't say it's impossible either so these people is it possible that they retain some of the knowledge from thousands definitely retain so I was just like we have monasteries in Europe during the Dark Ages retaining knowledge and what's interesting is in some cases you would retain chunks of knowledge that don't even make sense out of context except that they know they're important their know they're valuable examples do you know I think in Europe where you would have pieces of technology that would be retained but you don't have the whole complex or thinking literature

that's probably the easiest where you have hearts of like a history of Alexander where the whole thing did not survive but you know 6 out of 9 chapters or whatever survive in even though they knew it was an incomplete manuscript they would make numerous copies of the incomplete manuscript knowing that it was important for like the dead key Spanish examples of the Dead Sea Scrolls potentially were absolutely complete or at least most of their complete when they were buried and fruit meal put away for storage a lot of them the incomplete list there maybe because they degrade it because they were discovered by your local should have been torn apart and so pieces here and there I'm referring more to a situation where you have ancient knowledge are ancient manuscript and even though say the monks and monasteries knew that this was not a complete manuscript they knew that even and it's incompleteness it was

important to maintain as much of it as possible just stunning that a civilization that was knocked down like every other civilization somehow or another 2500 BC Rose to this incredible level of construction that is just unparalleled anywhere else I'm very quickly which I think does is it indicative potentially that they were reusing knowledge that have been passed down and somehow maybe things just click together maybe it took you a one genius to start putting things together and that shut off of Renaissance if you would be wasting that historically and much more recent times and maybe perhaps the understanding of how it was built and designed is more prevalent amongst the civilization among the community then maybe it would be today

so I mean that I did that stole of unanswered questions you're obviously obviously it's incredible incredible stop more toward and answer or at least getting the broader outlines of what is going on wow this it it's it's so fascinating to think that this could potentially happen to us that it's not only fasting I hate to use the term it's scary and I think we're incredibly vulnerable and people are not addressing this and it's not the type of thing to address for some reason because of major sore out first and coronal mass ejection and all the related phenomena we mentioned this earlier would bring down modern technology as we know it would fry the Grid it's just them you have high radiation level to pry have all the flooding and I mean look what happens when you have little floods and I say that as a geologist not to downplay the

boat disasters we've had but other factors for instance we have nuclear power plants all around the world we've seen that with a few isolated instant Chernobyl Three Mile Island Fukushima recently what happens when you have problems with those if you cut off power to a nuclear power plant it's ironic La people don't realize it yes they generate power but they need a power supply going into them if you fry the grid system your sensually going to have meltdowns and radiation you're going to have problems and on top of everything else we're going to bring on this artificial Haitian around the world I mean it's it's and again I'm not saying this I don't have anything to talk about this considered while shelter prepping kid and now they're going slow for so much money I'll sell you know Jim Bakker Style

I think that one of the things this gets back to that it's not just serve academic to study ancient civilization is not just fun and interesting but I think there are things to learn from this and one of the things to learn is that they survived and credible why don't know if they survive but they were not to their knees but we they went through natural catastrophes which are not unrealistic that we could go through them again and they potentially much more vulnerable than they are then they were at that time she goes with silver line on a little bird is there any are there any gloves that are convincing or at least to some of the construction methods of the of the pyramid or of any of the other giant structures I would say no

and this gets into the problem to that why would you expect that

I'm serious because what we have surviving are generally religious some what literary things in Toombs now that I don't buy for second at the Great Pyramid was a two more initially too and that's like saying huge Cathedral just to him because you find a couple bodies there and you never actually found bodies in the Great Pyramid are any of the major pyramid and as you know I know you know this the pyramid construction goes downhill as you go into later dynastic age of so they seem to have either gotten sloppy or just lost some of the technological finesse they had so you find some of the tombs these what almost seems silly pictures of them dragging huge statues on Yale sledge's where they're supposedly pouring oil or water in front of it to lubricated and

you know the egyptologist say haha this is how they built it all will try doing that in real life it doesn't really work so I think some of that may just be sore artistic license or metaphor that type of thing. Not that I brought with me but my point is that you wouldn't even expect them to be leaving detailed construction plans are that we would necessarily find them maybe we'll get lucky find some day but put it this way if they find a bunch of iPhones 12000 years from now or five thousand years from now with whichever. We want to find talk about will they know what they are and even if they know what they are we will we will they find the plans of how to build one in the factory specifications of in all the engineering that goes into it no

so why would you expect you for the Great Pyramids you know I'd be a lucky and be a lucky find. But how much would it cost are against it and and not to throw out too much Academia type stuff but one of the things I study is a graduate schools I took a series of courses in taxonomy which is basically how did things get preserve focusing on fossils but it's the principle supplied other things as well and as you go back in time what you expect to survive logarithmically drops off you know so you go back to this earlier. So amazing we have much of anything and what's going to survive big massive stone structures not the plans on Papyrus or sheepskin or whatever a front the details of how to build it that's why it would have found particular fence about that Egypt ologist saying where's the evidence of this culture from 10500 years ago like what

do you expect to find yeah exactly this is what you were talking about you know what we find from that earlier. If you think about her massive Stone Monumental structures everything else would be grounded if it was grounding to dust or it was reused in some cases sometimes people say well they how could they do that without metal tools will maybe mail or if she does go back further maybe it was lost and then reinvented again so can I don't deny the standard time frame but there could be a lot things going back before that and if you have metal and I'm not trying to focus on metal now and I'm not making any big claims about Metallurgy at earlier time but let's just say for instance of thought experiment if you had Metallurgy much earlier than 10

conventional time frame says and you had a natural a catastrophe like that are they just going to leave their metal tools all over the place no they collect all the scraps of metal possible in recycle and reuse and rehabs we do that to this day I mean people got in Massachusetts at least if you have a warehouse and you're not paying attention to it all the time it's the old Warehouse there been cases where people have found someone broke in not to steal the things in the warehouse but to steal the copper piping Bryan that's very common now there's some more interesting pieces of evidence that came out of the Great Pyramid and a lot a lot of the other structures of Egypt have been the pottery that's incredibly difficult to reproduce like those Stone mistake I'm not criticizing you if I said you said Padre because it's important distinction

really hard Stone which will crack easily if you don't do it just right so it looks like pottery and that's you use the term colloquially put that way it looks like Pottery because that's how people manage and you know that looks like a beautifully shaped pot but some of these they go poop and they go back to the earliest dynastic Egypt and probably much earlier they are carved out really hard Granite sand shifts and nice you know these really hard Stone and to incredible tolerances and Incredibly thin incredibly beautifully carved unless it was important Lee two very small opening a small opening just bought exactly and how do you do this I mean it's just incredible when you have to come to Egypt with us okay and when we do we'll look at some of these on site there's a bunch in the car in museum their Summit

museum at saqqara are they on the Nuggets Arabian Nights one there's much much nicer dicer in a sense of the Finesse of how they would call him out diorite Granite nice which is a metamorphic Stone schist these are really hard Stone's cutting up.

d i o r i t e I believe try that because that's what I'm pretty sure I saw one of them

and so are really hard to carve that use very narrow openings like you said sometimes they did put handles on them so they're not just spending them when I leave because how do you get the handles on it cuz that's not put on separate lease all car from one look at that look at that there's a nice one then to have this done vessels and these thousands of these have been going back to the earliest dynastic times but what suggested the other somehow they were carved the current prior to this standard egyptologist. Try to do that without cracking it without making a mistake Exedra explain what we're looking at we're looking at some sort of a it looks like a small scratch out the inside too I'm in maybe they didn't just took a long to what's the speculation of the other than that we could have one right above it Jamie that red one the red one right above your car

Chevy's on site so what what's the circulation so when you look at them and New Kingdom times as a general rule you get things similar to this new kingdoms that say 1500 PC just for round numbers you get similar types of vases and what not but they're actually to my eye much cruder generally they're made out softer stonemor your cow sites in limestone's and marbles that type of thing they generally aren't just not they'll have the same artistic finesse to them the same Perfection to them and the new king of Egyptians did show diagrams as we just saw how they did it or supposedly did it and that may well be how they were doing it but I question is a geologist weather that would really work for these beautiful harder Stone much more perfect

Maya assessment older ones that you find going back to the earliest dynasties and you find in some cases thousands of them show at sick car at the step pyramid generally considered the oldest pyramid although I would question that but it's definitely a old pyramid even by age of logical standards you found thousands of these really well carved wands from the harder Stone the more artistic ones if we could call it that serve a huge horde of them I don't even think they were necessarily cart at that time I think this may have been the horde that they have preserved from thousands of years earlier service stock power Museum if you would in fact what we're fighting for as many of these quote tombs and temples not temples and pyramids that type of thing is that maybe the centrally they were stock piles they were the equivalent of fallout shelter supplies that type of thing that made the

part of the original structure next Stanley disco ball case of Curves you have to be careful as I was saying is that you have the really well finessed very ancient once and then you have ancient ones that are from the new can only 3,000 3,500 years old yeah and then what you have and I could show you one and if it's still on display in the Egyptian Museum I say still on display because they change displays and they're building a new grand Egyptian museum as they call so it's hard to know what to wear I'm convinced that it's a very old Bowl That Was Then reused in later times so you see this kruder hieroglyphic inscription on it

and you just look at it and you say someone that could car fat incredible Bowl would not have done such a crude inscription on it and then when we go through each with a megalithic I'm statues and what not you can find over and over where they would carve on them later so we appropriate them in later dynastic times which is still thousands of years ago so very ancient from our personal perspective but they were reusing older structures and older older artifacts

DeSoto out the whole subject is so fascinating to me but this whole thing is very weird because it's almost like one of the crazier pieces of evidence but it's dismissed like what you said that's like right under your nose pierced and it's it's not unlike and I only think of this cuz I know you saw it if you remember when you cuz I watch the recently to refresh my memory the podcast where you interview John Anthony West and he showed a picture which happened to be my hand but in my hand was a little bead that was found that could Beckley Tempe and the thing is remember that little B had to say it was a very hard probably volcanic Stone and little teeny hole drilled all the way through it the long way so you had a drilling that snow a centimeter more long going through it's not just a little hole punched through but a little tunnel going through there it is now and you know how do you do that with quote primitive

that to me is this amazing as direction of the pillars wow so you have to look at both small-scale and large-scale like you say the Bulls maybe something you hold in your hand but now they're just as incredible technology just like if people were to judge us today 10,000 years from now they say that iPhone is incredible technology even those small scale just like I said maybe say if anything survives of them are some high-rise was incredible and this is Gobekli Tepe that we just pulled up Tammy these images and what are these images of earplugs or plant bugs what they are your functions plug your ears I don't know exactly what is the speculation

construction methods of those complicated bowls what what do people believe they did what they may have been using some kind of life for it at least in part but the problem is you can't turn it and still have the handle sticking if you do standard work on your spending light type of thing so there's something else that has to be going on there I was going to save part of the problem with any of this knowledge being passed down right up until at least the 1600 early 1700s you know there were Guild systems where you would retain knowledge of how you do certain technological things and I think that may go back to very very ancient times but you don't mind just give out Brian you know the knowledge to anyone but you know again I've heard no good compelling and my mind

just to how these things were made that they found the king's chamber was what they refer to as what did they call the sarcophagus I think I don't, and it's made out of granite a swan Granite that offer meaning like almost like a treasure chest and it's something you put your body and you don't think that's correct no correct that's why I don't like how far is more generic should we say right and doesn't that the king's chamber has some of the more complicated Stones write larger it's lined with granite the primary construction material of

diversity the primary construction material for the Great Pyramid is limestone pretty much on site and you can still see the quarries there other high-quality Limestone noticed or Limestone was brought from across the Nile

can you can still see the tour of limestone quarries and then Granite was used for parts of the construction particularly to line the king's chamber in this Granite was brought from Southern Egypt brought up brought down the Nile I should say from the south to the north of Mount flows from the south to the north and it's a swan Grandin you're talking about huge blocks of stone up to 90 tons or so have been the estimates for those particular stones in the king's Chambers so when you go into the king's Chambers totally lined with this beautiful red a swan Granite you got this big cock for their that they give you permission you can lie in and it's a nice feeling to lion and a lot of people have them all kinds of experiences excetera incredible but it is these

this line is so perfect and so well fit together and you have this job all the sides of roof the ceiling of the north star ceiling of it the walls of it the floor of it the cough her there and then you have what they call Star shafts are air shafts that go out to North and South that's what Robert Duvall's worked on in park and then above the king's chamber you have the so-called relief Chambers are relieving Chambers which you can't get into normally I've been in there a few times but you have to get special permission to have to put a ladder up from the grand gallery and you go through this little snake hole so speak to get up there but there's these Chambers above it which seem to serve no function that's why they're called relief Chambers are relieving Chambers because there was early speculation that somehow they help distribute the weight of the Great Pyramid engineering from

engineering point of view they don't seem to work or doesn't seem to make any difference between the rest of the pyramid solid another pair mixer solid in don't collapse without why do they call the king's chamber basically the Arabs called it that because their concept was if I remember correctly that men would have a chamber with a flat ceiling on it the Queens chamber which is lower down in the pyramid has inverted V shape change ceiling to it and they thought that was for the queen that would be female to King's chamber would be for the mail it's also the more impressive chamber things that I read was that the way it was built that they believe that it was possible that Coors were drilled out

that going back to the earliest dynastic times if not earlier that day I forget where you called in modern times but you have a drill bit that is circular in shape and it draws out of core so now they were drilling Granite you again if it's still on display I could show you in the Egyptian Museum in Caro sarcophagi which probably really were sarcophagi are these big Granite boxes where they were signing the granite in fact not knowing where they saw it looks like they were using high-speed saws because in some cases they would make a little mistake and then I have to back off and then go at it again you don't do that if you're in my opinion if you're doing it by hand you know back and forth with Ryan so amazing that you some sort of Machinery involved there's some kind of machine they were using and very ancient times there's once you open your eyes to it you see it where you see

it seems to be high-speed machinery's Norelco electric motors and electricity and all that type of thing some people that some people I don't go there because I went real evidence right so I see real evidence that they were doing things that seem really unbelievable from standard status quo conventional point of view say that standard Egypt logical Point View of how how primitive they were not into speculating inordinately as to what what kind of Technology they might have had I just don't know at this point yes so is there images of the the inside of the sarcophagus like we could get a look at what that looks like it's not very pressure on true he can probably if I don't know if you can see the drill marks they have any choice now but you can see other places

for instance when we go into the valley Temple next to it there's one of the doors that was on huge hinges and I don't think you're going to find pictures of this on the internet cuz very hard to photograph but when you look at that in person you can see how they drilled out the hinge several several inches in diameter and did a core drill because you can still see if I remember there you can still see the store the stub we're broke off oh wow yeah you can see how they were using sophisticated techniques to do but no idea whatsoever about I don't know what kind of this way if we and I am not speculating that they had such things but you can tell and modern times that someone used a power saw a power drill or this type of tour that type of tool thousands of years from now you might be able to still see that and the stable

but you don't have a single example of the tool that was actually used for it right right with these guys how come out there that's a nice example of it okay there we go that's a good example yeah that's actually probably the one I was just talking about a borehole. And you can see how is spinning you can see how they were cutting down quite a bit and each turn say to me the critics of skeptic so you know if they were doing all this stuff with worst examples of their tools

let me how many guys just leave now they walk away from a site and they leave their box tool box there you know I leave it or forget I mean all the all the mechanics I've ever known and people like that they're very careful to pick up every tool and put it back and make sure they got all their equipment will go to the building and try to find a hammer know this is completely makes sense but man I would just like to know like what were they doing like how they make that whole that's that's a massive massive mr. yeah yeah exactly what's the standard egyptologist

explanation they just shrug their shoulders always say that all the time you see it all the time but it it reminds me of disrespect be silly but I'm going to say it anyway now I don't know why I say it anyway supposedly analogy if you if you're used to something I'll put it this way if you're used to seeing something I regular basis you start you stop question it just becomes

coming to see you but you don't really quite like technology today how many people could explain how even the most rudimentary sense how some of the technology works that we have today the egyptologist seem to be just get immune to it they see all this fabulous stuff and they just forget that Wilt this was made somehow we don't really know how it was made then they again go back to the simplistic explanations of all you know on some new kingdom are late. We have this illustration this must be how they did it and I'm not convinced that that's always how they did a drill and some Stones around it is it wait to keep it spinning and I haven't seen that

the equivalent modern cartoons of how something works and I love that is really more to say okay if your watch maker writing this I 200 years ago your watchmaker you might have some signs that indicate you're a watchmaker but don't try to take that sign as a blueprint of how you actually made watches it does so deep when they constructed that Coffer they somehow or another board that they probably bored maybe board in the chorus board down broke out pieces of speculation now and broke it out and then once you got it rough doubt and polish the surfaces that type of thing

so you know it. If you leave any traces of how it was actually construct it that's not as good as if there are no traces more less now it's not as good as you look at something like the statue of khafre or chef Ron this is credible statue in the Egyptian Museum again it's the one that was has a face of the Pharaoh that supposedly was the face of the Sphinx which they don't match up at all of the hawk on troll has a Hawkeyes shoulders statue is absolutely incredible you now it's so smoothie polished excetera you have to look very hard to find a tool marks or evidence of how it was car because you know really good workmanship you remove all that ultimately so that's part of the problem with some of this really high-quality Egyptian work is that they would remove the tray

check out their third is did they would remove the traces of

how it was made the 29th image effect on the side of it you see that sort of plasma formation absolutely because I brought image of this because it ties in with that hole

boxer terrier and has two circles it was exactly very observant and think about the bird headed man the hawk you know and this incredible statue if you feel it face on you don't see the bird from the side you see the bird to grow out of them all the stuff is so fast so I think it really all goes back to this very early formative. If you want this really important. For Humanity and what was happening there's a head-on View and there you don't see the bird it off course but incredible and how many carbs something like that today I don't know what it would cost who you could pay I've heard yeah this is anecdotal talk to the stonecutters and that type of thing and yep to try to duplicate some of what they see in Egypt I mean it just would take them so long and

so much work and it would be so expensive with modern power tools

that they basically so you know who could do it do you have any fear that this is going to does information is going to be lost I mean that but you had your so far down this track of sort of explaining these things and these revolutionary theories about what happened and I don't this is a bean I've been studying this for a long time and this is the first time I'm hearing it so that's why I need to be on your show right I'm so glad you're here to get this out to the public so far down this road is there anyone else is doing the same kind of work does anybody else's with you on this well I think I'm the one that's doing this right now but I think there are a lot of other pieces that tie an show protector parrots work but he serve been I had some health issues and other things seem older the electric Universe there's a what's the electric Universe Community which ties in with this at electrical phenomena and plasma discharges or more important

there is a whole group now that I think are starting to think about what if we had another Carrington event and then you future how would that affect our grid system so what I'm saying is I think there are a lot of little pieces that are starting to come together and you're starting to come together we in this together but what I'm trying to do right now it's to paint the broad picture the broad strokes and I think it goes back to the end of the last ice age and what was happening then right up until now and then what the implications are and how is this being received people picking up on the icing for picking up on it and sometimes the you know people are picking up on it when how did they say at the sincerest

what is it

copying someone is a sincere form of flattery Rebecca thinks of imitation invitation and I do find a little annoyed quotes yeah people are trying to talk about a lot of these things especially the plasma in the Sun and solar advance and all of a sudden by chance they're talking about it not necessarily mentioning me but I think yeah I know they are sending a lecture or they may be read my book but these things take time and I'm not asking for a lot of you know but I think it's important to get the information out and I think as we have things like your podcast and people read the books and I'm able to talk at conferences we slowly get this I know it takes time it all takes time and they play This Way Copernicus and I'm not comparing myself to Copernicus but Copernicus and the heliocentric

do you know he publishes that on his deathbed that was a view that actually went back to the rear processors in ancient times of course but he published his at his deathbed and a couple Generations later they're still persecuting Galileo for supporting it so these things yeah things go quicker now yeah but it still takes some time I see a big difference now then I do in the 1990s for even the redating of the Sphinx

I think it's not. Yes it did internet help I have mixed feelings about the internet because a problem with the internet issue can disseminate information you get information out but doesn't mean it's good information so you get the naysayers to critics the Skeptics they have access to a to fake news fake news and genuine fake versus real fake news in a shame that so many times if they're very much I see with all this information and misinformation all these factoids out there is it's very confusing for many people if they're not involved in something again I'm not trying to claim you have to go to experts authorities cuz that's part of the problem too when you have a pseudo authorities who just how are pushing their own agendas and frankly don't know what they're talking about it and I see too many of that amount to say certain academics and skip

fix that type of thing but it's all so confusing when you only take information and

you don't know how put it all together so I teach you know I teach you and you've heard that teach college and Boston University and what I find with students and I'm not picking on them I'm saying this with all due respect they have so much access to fax and factoids will use that term but they have to understand the bigger picture they have to be able to understand critically and think critically about it to put things together and how does it all fit together and that that's so important and that's not something I think you get just from you know surfing the internet right of course quickly YouTube videos by someone that's not necessarily reliable at the problem right it is missing formations been spread through YouTube more more than good information probably put on some fake lab coats right now and just make some nonsense video and play exactly

in my business now what I'm talking about is that they say you can't please everyone all the time but it seems like in some cases in my career in this field I've been able to displease everyone because I'll come out with position sometimes sorry I'm losing my position sometimes where I'm not placing my academic colleagues but I'm not extreme enough for the should we say other side I'd like caught in the middle cuz I'm going by the evidence I actually have

and it's not driving with so speak to send photo how is that received by the people that mean there are those Ancient Aliens type folks that really want everything they want everything to be Ancient Aliens and I've been accused of how could I not accept this or that you know because he wants this supports what everything you've been saying I don't care if it supports everything I've been saved it's not real it's not real if they have to just sit there it's not you know and structures in the Machu Picchu in all the different places where like wow these construction methods are really pretty impressive hit your sister must serve a cop out

other DVDs they want to sell their YouTube videos and some cases they want to sell for money and some kisses they want to sell for promotions self-promotion be famous I told you I I was accused of that back early nice those shows those UFO and ancient alien type shows and they love those conferences they go to those conferences and they all just actually masturbate together it's like they're all like yeah there's nothing else but I work what they say but I think it does fill a void for some people and one thing I'm trying to do is to fill that void with something real something important something that has evidence to back it up because there are a lot of questions there are a lot of mysteries and I will admit I've been on the ancient alien show but I've never

proposed Ancient Aliens have never supported that I've always been clear people actually listen to me but they asked me to be on a number of other academics have to because well yeah I did the context is not slippery slippery but the point is that there are real Mysteries to this things that we don't really understand that you and I have been discussing about in the show many more we could discuss but those are real and I so many people that I know that watch shows like that when I talk to them and I'm talking academics would never admit they watch it they watch it because I find it entertaining number one they don't quite say this way but I think it fills a void and it does raise issues that if they're perceptive then they might become aware up and realize that these are real issues no Ancient Aliens or some other easy answer

it's not the way to go but they are real things that need to be looked into so even when I speak out conference like that there are so many very intelligent people that are there besides the other but no there different types of people short but I know many people that have phds and stuff in the go to it for a survive between entertainment but also to get exposed to things they're not going to be exposed to buy the standard academic

Community you're not going to get exposed to love this these types of questions if you just go to the standard closed academic conferences are going to be washed over so you know I'm part what I'm trying to do with Oracle the organization for the research of ancient cultures which is not just me I want to be clear on that in fact we are president is actually I guess heavy metal guitar player he's he's really Berkeley trained he's at the Exxon yeah no I mean seriously just made by these things we have people like joscelyn Godwin from Colgate University who's the world renowned scholar on The Advisory board but what we're trying to do with things like or cool

can I would encourage people to actually look at it cuz we've got website up to you can go through my website www. Robert shock.com to get there or go directly to was it www.org or online o r a c u l online you know all one word. Org and what we're trying to do with this and also through the institute for the study of the origins of civilization is OC which I'm trying to do it Boston University is to have a forum where we can look at these real puppet these topics this topic seriously using evidence but not us but also not be dismissive just because we have to uphold the standard Dogma so I don't want to go with just the nonsense you know flipping and easy out to sell someone's book that you know this crazy

Facebook or I'm not being nasty about anyone or I'll just stick to the standard pair time but thinking out of the box but as they say but thinking out of the box using real evidence and using real logic and using real rationality to look at a number of these issues there more resistance towards dating Egypt in egyptology particularly ancient Egypt versus other cultures like Gobekli Tepe and some other ancient structures that they're really tough pay is that the dating dating of Quebec Elite fa is the dating that is based on hard stratigraphy radiocarbon dating German archaeological Institute 10000 plus years ago and in that case just ice pack

for a bigger picture you have evidence we have evidence of catastrophe at Quebec Le Temple we have evidence that the pillars were knocked down and hastily erected and you can see that in the pillars they built these there we have a picture up there if you can see the pillar on the far on the right side that is not an archaeological reconstruction that killer was knocked down it was put back into position but you can see how was put back into position crudely using fragments of another pillar then they built these crude walls to serve hold the pillars up there but it against it will to me this is happening and the dating confirms it in the aftermath of the initial solar Outburst at the end of last ice age when you had all this tumultuous

yo things happening earthquakes in the precipitation the rain the fire coming down the thunder so you have this incredible situation where we have captured at Quebec later pay the catastrophe that was going on and how they were trying to reconstruct in I think I don't say that gave up but for whatever reason is probably so much they end up covering the whole thing artificially maybe to preserve it maybe they intended to go back to it maybe for posterity I don't know what there thinking was we could you speculate about that but

tiny with what you were just asking the Beckley Tempe is not tied to a some other later civilization as is dynastic agent so they're so involved correct it's a dog Medeiros involve how sophisticated is Roscoe Beckley Tempe and you those that one up old is standard story saying well yeah it's pretty but it's not that Sophisticated You submissive and therefore the you know they just tried to wave their arms and say it's sort of like saying it's a normally but not much of an Envoy so we don't need to really worry about uncovered a strike small fragment of a very very small price for those that don't see the picture

but there's pictures like this in my book forgot to serve ization fact I think that's right I have my book probably are very similar to what you can see the pillar in the back on the left you see how that was knocked down and is propped up and it is been put back into position and they built these crude walls against it before they buried the whole thing so this whole site underwent dramatic catastrophe was being put together quickly again and then another problem the animals as well they're still there I called a feline Sophie line going down and they had a carve the stone around that's right that's right that's right so much more complicated carving is richly taking them out of the Quarry to get say a 1510 pill I think we're looking other we are there it's so beautiful I love that now if you saw that in

the Museum of Modern Art he could fit right in two points I just went to make before I forget them one when your carbon is pillars to get 10 or 15 ton pillar finalized you have to carve a much bigger chunk of rock initially because of course you have to leave the rock where you're going to have the animal you have to leave the rock because they're not it's sizing these in their carving them in relief so that's a lot more complicated kind of way all the Rocket Center so this is very credible technological fee also off the Record and this one if you look at that one you see how it's got weather pigs and whatnot but you also see the weather surface I'm going to chill till geology. That is a older pillar that was being reused at the end of the last ice age I believe so some of these structures actually go back earlier and before CrossFit passed away unexpectedly he was talking about this to that he

and there they were maybe you reusing some structures that were a little bit earlier maybe several thousand years earlier so this goes back the origins of got back late I may go back thousands of years earlier when all said and done once we get the evidence in well into the end of the last ice age stuffed out about 97 BC I was going to say before I forget it lot going on here off the Record and course they would never admit to this but off the Record I've spoken to archaeologists when you're there and I'm getting mood and say that

animal on the Quebec Lee Tempe pillar and isolation are you just found one of these pillars are part of one in isolation you were just looking at how do you think it would be and I've heard the answer 600 BC a thousand BC based on the technology of the technological finesse the beauty of the carving

not eight nine thousand years earlier Brian yeah but that they would never say that on the record right right right because it's so complicated yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but I've had to say that will fight they just found say that little feline type thing on the side of the pillow just broken off in just an isolation they probably say when told me yeah well maybe it's a thousand BC at most the most but you got 9700p or whatever that's crazy have they identified the corries where these Stones super far away is a kilometer bit more minutes there's Limestone around there so it's not a situation where they're dragging the stuff you know tense of kilometers away but I don't think that the tracks from know what they were doing

hey there's but once you Corey the block if you're moving a kilometer it's not that much harder to move at 10 km it just takes more effort but Ryan technology it's really cool. Be able to move it to begin with and then be able to carve it into this beautiful structures and something I want to point out to is that a lot of times when I talk about Gobekli Tepe I'll make the comment about Stonehenge because people are familiar with Stonehenge but Stonehenge when you look at the blocks they're there so much cruder then what we have at Quebec late type A and the Quebec Play Cafe Stone pillars the central ones particularly they are so beautifully carved but if you look at them to also very very thin and their smallest Dimension there you can see it how thin Edition that one's anthropomorphic with the belt and the hands and that sure looks like some people to say metal buckle on it

very simple and very similar to Easter Island there I think they're definite connections there but why shouldn't there be we were just talking about Ronco Ronco and horse two ago yeah and how they were seeing similar things in the sky but I wanted to point out that when you carve a pillar like that that's so thin and narrow that's much more difficult to keep it from Snappy to keep it from breaking also if you see in that pillar how it said into the Bedrock it said in just literally very very shallow only set into the Bedrock Klaus Schmidt commented to me that and he publish this to that they seem to be using some kind of concrete or cement to help set them into the Bedrock which is Untold off at such an early. When he first was Excavating them before I got down to the bottom I think you said this to me / boy

estimated that about 1/3 at least a third of the pillar should be set into the Bedrock just to hold it up pop it up not just on the order of centimeters as you find and is this a sturdy construction on it now my suspicion is that initially it was not roofed over there that they were free-standing pillars and they were very very carefully set and balance and everything was in perfect order me this is total speculation but like many of the obelisks and what not but I may have even had a vibration to them they may purposefully vibrator picked up some kind of freak when she can see their hot yeah how shallow it is but they what they were finely-tuned whatever you want to call that and I'm not trying to claim it some kind of weird machine as some people have called speculated

but I think there was something there and residence and audio cues audio frequencies are historically very important and what's modern structures you say you think of his religious but you know if x your mental thinking abilities and that type of things or something may been going on there with that this may also be why they broke so easily during the catastrophe easily it was a huge catastrophe but they were trying to rewrap them what's the timeline in terms of like their total uncovering that site in modern times are they trying to do how much time do you think it's going to take for them to completely uncover I'll take to it carefully Century Century was good being so huge side and and Klaus Schmidt when Katie and I were there I think he waved his arms they talk about there's all these other Hills out there

that probably have more under them I mean you're talking a huge complex and we know that in some cases cuz you see little fragments sticking up in that type of thing and also remember when you're doing archaeology and I have training in archaeology despite what's on my critics will say when you're doing archaeology it's inherently destructive because you can't put it back together so if you don't do it carefully you don't do it right you're destroying evidence you are inherently destroying evidence so a lot of people nowadays professionals they don't want to excavate and tire site at one time they want to leave Parts on excavated so that other people have a go at it as you develop new technology you can apply that

to a different part of the site plus practical thinks this is in Turkey it's close to the Syrian border and we know how the political situation there is with the Islamic State exceder they would love to destroy this site I'm sure really it's very close to her phone which is the city of Abraham it's a very sacred holy site for Judaism Christianity but more than anything else Islam Gobekli Tepe is just outside like half hour drive by taxi from Eartha in Eartha you have the sacred Cave of Abraham you have the pools of Abraham young big mosque there and I bring this all up because this is very ancient city when they ask a V8

Eartha not archaeological excavations but say they build a new road are they do a build a new underground garage they often hit 12000 year old or thereabouts remains so there's this beautiful statue called Eartha man which is now in the museum inner thigh which also has lots of artifacts from Gobekli Tepe and it was found the right near the modern pools of Abraham when they were doing some construction project but it represents an image of

the people supposedly are at least it's an image of a man or person that gauge back to the Beckley Tempe times it's about full size is about the same size as me but like him legs very similar actually has a lot of comparisons to the moai on Easter Island get a picture of this I think we do I think we do look look look at you with obsidian dies and he is suffering from Beckley Tempe time but he was found in Earth and you're not going to do it we're not going to do it but if you could just wipe out the modern city and excavate there

who knows what you would find potentially Earth. This is me speaking is one of the oldest inhabited cities on Earth I'm going back to the plate Ice Age well this is something that goes on in Mexico City as well right apartment in Cairo in other parts of each of their families that lived for centuries because their little hearts are the community was on the top of ancient ruins and they would dig in their basement and pull out a gold statue at or whatever sell it and you eat for the next 6 months so is this place is there any consideration to the lake picking isolated spots in starting to dig and I think there's some consideration on the part of

Chanel archaeologist in Turkish government that type of thing but you've also got a very strong religious elements he religion placed into all of this of course and also you don't necessarily want to destroy ancient Islamic Temple say it Islamic mosque 880 or something to excavate something that's a few thousand years old in years older or 10,000 years older or more

on the one hand which am I more interested in might be one versus the other but other people are interested in the other it's yummy and there's all these factors that play into it so it's very complicated very messy and then of course you have

the situation in this ties in where you know I know Christians are more interested in the birth of Jesus and where the manger is and we can see in Egypt the function trusted the supposed to place where the Holy Family stayed when Jesus went to Egypt you know whatever and you can see things like that in Earth for Abraham and what not and how do you respect that with but also want to excavate underneath and then some people would say Excavating underneath is sacrilegious to yeah what their main interest is yes it gets very very comfy I bet phds in Egypt one in particular just tell you a quick anecdote I'm seeing they're having breakfast this was in the 1990s and it was in a hotel where was overlooking the pyramid and Sphinx so I'm looking out them nice having nice breakfast a guy comes down sits with me joints with me starts making cover

station turns out he's at the Cairo University economics professor of Economics or what not and he starts telling me cuz it's obviously not a chip should have a pair Canon why am I there I'm Stein the pyramids and sphinx they start telling me his opinion of all this that was pinion was that the

pyramid should be dismantled

get rid of the Sphinx don't need any of that use those raw materials on site to build a covered over air condition shopping mall bigger than the one in Dubai and that would really benefit agent

economically and otherwise who said this a professor at the University but I'm have no question he was genuine and real and I didn't laugh or anything cuz he was serious but where is he coming from and park Egypt in mean anything to him dynastic Egyptian lot of Egyptians do it mean something to them but there's a lot of Egyptians and Egypt there most of them if it's pretty Muslim it's not a big deal if it's pre Arab is not a big deal because there Arabs they might have been in age-appropriate Thousand Years but the native Egyptians is not there

culture culture but it's not think about America how many Native American mounds and Raves and what not get bulldozed over with that may be the most preliminary archaeological Salvage to build a shopping mall or a new development we think it's really crazy when someone like that would say that about the pyramids and sphinx you know cuz everyone knows about them but from his perspective if I quizzed him he could have turned around said we'll look what you do in your country human nature cross the planet it's. I don't agree with that perspective but I could understand where he was coming from he wasn't coming he wasn't some crazy didn't strike me some crazy fun to men

show us or anything like that he was just thinking and different terms and for him and he's not the one when I spoken to in Egypt Egyptians who take that perspective the others will say we have to save all these but not necessarily because they could care less about pyramids and sphinxes and tombs but because they're good for the economy because it brings in tourism but then there's the counter argument which I've heard many times that Egypt has two separate itself from tourism so you need to cut off the nipple yes because I've had Egyptian say to me in no uncertain terms and

not joking or anything but point out that depending on how you count it you know 25% to 60% or more of the Egyptian economy could be based on tourism because it's not just the directors and but it's those that Supply the people who deal with the Taurus Exciter Exedra and when you have a situation that you have something happen in the Middle East could be far from Egypt

but people get excited the Americans all of a sudden tell me I can't go to eat or just may interest to go to Egypt because something happened in Syria that's what I heard and it has nothing to do for our country and our economy was dependent upon Taurus and sole or a major portion of it and then something happens in Brazil and all of a sudden because something happened in Brazil no tourists are coming to America and it cripples our economy I mean I can understand that perspective what is the perspective in Turkey when they're dealing with Gobekli Tepe and they mix two I mean I think they're in Turkey unfortunately from my perspective you've got more more rise of should we say radical Islamic fundamentalism that doesn't really want to worry about such things but you also have people who seek of Beckley Tempe as potentially someday

fine with the Sphinx and pyramids for Turkish dollars in for a destination turkeys wonderful my opinion I love both turkey and Egypt I'm just to visit them to travel through them that type of thing within country have to know what you're doing but people travel with me I know what I'm doing I don't mean that nasty way I think that I will not take Chris I'll take risk for myself and I guess I've been on the wrong end of a God but all the worst was Pakistan but that's the better one point I was accused of carrying plastic plastic explosives and all the sudden had for AK-47

on my son and I know enough about Small Arms these were loaded and talk to him that mean the fingers were on the trigger on the trigger guard so it turns out I didn't have plastic explosives and you know I'm a mild-mannered guy and I said I was carrying back then the bricks little thinks of oil-based clay

that I cashed have the texture and feel if some of the explosives they would use we would use these when we collected fossils and you find a bunch of fragments to prop it up and put into position as you glue them together

yeah yeah I had to explain all of that and someone came from the Pakistani Geological Survey explain that you know I really was who I was but you know it's a situation where people get excited and that was back in the bed all day so if you know I don't know if it's even better in Pakistan now but yeah

they're tough situations but if you know how to behave and you know how do within you know how to avoid it you'll be okay and right now I would say Egypt is very very really ask people have all kinds of misconceptions about you jipped turkey we were taught starting to talk about turkey turkey maybe go another route a little bit I'm being very honest but I have no problem going with turkey I have no problem taking people to Turkey but at this point there certain areas I might avoid just to be on the safest of safest yeah but I would never in danger anyone else in fact I always err on the side of safety when it comes to anyone else I want to cry Trish with myself either but you know sometimes as a geologist I feel I have to do what I have to do you have any plans on releasing this theory of coronal mass ejections and all

all the things we talked about today into something like a documentary something that I would I would love to do a documentary something that John Anthony West and I were often talking about documentary we also would like to do a film full length feature film if we could get back in and what not sure if I should I say it's Mi popularized Top Nail somebody fix my eyes for The Voice based on real science real data real evidence oh yeah I've seen so many films were there about geological catastrophes whether it's huge asteroid hit ignore me all San Andreas fault and if so faked yeah but cuz it's not real what would really happen it's not really what would happen and what I'm saying is what has happened in the past and what really will happen in the future if we get hit again which

I hate to say this but from a geological perspective there is no doubt these things are unavoidable it would be like saying we'll never have another volcanic eruption earthquake again course we will we will so it's better to be aware of it and prepare for it so yeah I'd love to do a good film in this and I don't think it would be something that would really catch on well if you could help us well I'll connect you to people maybe like that would be excellent I'm serious I'm sorry I think you heard when we were talking before she has some background and now she was a dancer and entertainment Broadway but film connections we really need fill connections out there for contact information if someone is in that bitch don't take all of you absolutely the best way to get ahold of me with the through my website www. Robert Shaw

schoch how the last name spelled. Com or if they want to email me directly in this is on the website with this thing I know what should I do about the email go to the contact page my wife is to my left ear and she said the contact page nailed it she said the contact page that people go to www. Robert shock.com and then go to the contact page though get my contact information there I think we have a fairly DirecTV way to contact may I felt so I believe got my business address their Boston University address office because I really am at Boston University full-time tenured faculty member and I'm interested if people want to contact me about film if they want to go to each with me I do tours periodically arrange something if

people have enough if they want a private if they have enough people that would want to come to make it viable or yep these things cost money I think if I were independently wealthy maybe I just take people for fun Bryant at my expense but I just I don't have that well I built a to you you have stimulated a lot of people's imagination I'm sure the Paw the Sphinx for

quarter-century now I've wanted to continue the serious research on that I have contacts in age of that talk to the ministry of Antiquities the actually director I guess he is of the grand Egyptian museum the new Museum I think we could make inroads there to actually explorer that if someone has money or interest in that the problem is and I must say is but a lot of people say oh well why don't you just raise money by crowdfunding doesn't work for a chipped you have to have the money up front they don't want you know crowdfunding Tech money so that's another thing so my point is that there's film Project love to pursue there's research love to pursue that's why we've set up the Oracle the not-for-profit to do this all right in legitimately that's why I'm saying up the institute at Bu The Soup for the study of the origins of civilization so lots of possibilities and I'm hoping we can make some of this happened I'm hoping we can too

I really appreciate you being here man it was really awesome to talk to you and you blew my mind this this whole theory is it scared the shit out of me but it also it's very exciting and thank you and again I dare anyone but I think we have to be real and we have to be realistic and there's no point in hiding in your closing your eyes to fans just an awesome. Menses it's very cool thank you thank you thank you very much right choices German

thank everybody for tuna to the podcast and thank you tour sponsors thank you to the cash app download the cash app for free and to the reward code Joe Rogan you receive $5 in the cash app will send $5 to Justin Brands fight for the Forgotten charity thank you also to LegalZoom LegalZoom is extending their friends and family discount right now just use the offer code Rogan in the promo box a check out for a limited time and you can save 10% right now at legalzoom.com with a promo code Rogan LegalZoom where life meets legal

that's it

we did it

damn it cuz amazing I'm a huge fan of that man in what he's done to illuminate the the holes in the gaps in human history and ancient structures in ancient building sites amazing amazing stuff and I I swear I will go to Egypt with him one day just not right now I think everybody TuneIn appreciate the fact that you guys and that's it I'll buy