Episode 68: All the Time in the World
Jun 2, 2017
The “body farm" at Texas State University is a place almost no one except researchers and law enforcement are able to see, because it's one of very few places in the world that deliberately puts out human bodies to decompose in nature. Forensic Anthropologists observe decomposition in order to help law enforcement discern when and how someone may have died. We asked if we could visit, and they agreed.
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► 00:00:32this week's episode is part of a special radio Topia wide project welcoming a new show to the lineup it's called ear hustle and it features stories of life in prison told in produced by those incarcerated at San Quentin stay tuned after the show to hear preview to welcome your hustle all radio Topia shows early singing episode around one theme doing time each of us interpreted the theme in our own way you can listen to them all that radio Topia dot f m here's ours
► 00:01:02called all the time in the world
► 00:01:13what is that you're holding this is a mandible the Jawbone
► 00:01:24and that skull is in half yeah this person was autopsied so that is an autopsy cut so that they can examine the brain
► 00:01:37there's a little bag here that says hands and feet to those usually get separated because it's their loss
► 00:01:45of little small bones so we put them in a separate bag just so that they don't get scattered out throughout the box it's easier to keep them together
► 00:01:55this is dr. Daniel Wescott the director of the forensic anthropology Center at Texas State University in San Marcos Texas about 30 miles from Austin we met with him in a nondescript building a warehouse really so plane we drove right past it twice but when you get out of the car and walked to the door you see a small paper sign with a vulture and a skull and you know you found it there are very few places in the world
► 00:02:25the do what they do here why you would think that we would know a lot about how bodies decomposed it actually turns out that we really know very little about what's going on so this the work that's done here is pretty vital to that a doctor Wescott Center they deliberately set out human bodies to decompose and nature most of the bodies are lying on the ground face up with their arms at their sides but researchers also Place bodies in
► 00:02:55Acts of cars wrap them in tarps and bury them in Shallow Graves as a culture in some ways we actually are kind of scared of death and and you know we embalm bodies so that they don't decompose as fast and we don't want to see that process going on but that process does go on and we need to build understand how it works how big is the facility and how many bodies are here the facility is 26 Acres
► 00:03:25it's on a forty two Hundred acre ranch and we get about 70 donations a year so and then the bodies are usually left to decompose for about six months to several years depending on the research protocol and then the skeletons come back here and so we added about 70 skeletons per year to collection so if you had to guess how many bodies are in some state of decomposition here right now do you know probably about
► 00:03:5560 the bodies are donated their called gifted bodies and the people who plan to donate themselves to the research when they die are called living donors you know if they want to do something like put me in a trunk of a car to see what happens there are under a tarp or a slab of concrete I got no problem with that this is Grady early a retired computer science Professor who decided long ago that he wanted his body to go to the
► 00:04:25insuk anthropology Center why did you decide to become a donor
► 00:04:31I think that everyone should be useful in life and if you can be useful after death as well so much the better after all which would you rather do wind up in a box in the ground just waste in real estate or be in a box in the lab and at least potentially useful to a researcher sometime in future Grady early remembers when the
► 00:05:00sylheti was getting established more than 10 years ago and the University was struggling to find the right location they needed enough space but they also needed a place that wouldn't freak people out we looked it aside out at the airport some of the neighbors didn't like the idea and I said well that's going to attract vultures so we'll have Birds interfering with the aircraft side over behind the outlet mall and
► 00:05:30there were some people that were unhappy with that idea there's there's always nimbys around he's given money to the facility and become fascinated by what he describes as quote helping bones tell their story when his body eventually becomes part of the research he'll be joining his mother she's already there it was an astonishing thing although in retrospect I suppose it shouldn't have been when I told my mother
► 00:06:00there what I was planning on doing
► 00:06:03she being a fairly practical woman said that sounds like a wonderful idea sign me up so I did she died at a hundred and two Grady says he doesn't really care what happens to him when he goes into the field somebody's are placed in the open with the vultures and coyotes and some are protected by long low cages summer clothes and some aren't it all depends on the nature of
► 00:06:33experiment it's odd to think that if all goes as planned Grady early will one day return to the very building where he sat and talked to us packed in cardboard with the bones of his hands and feet in a small paper bag what I would really like to do is have my skeleton articulated and hung up somewhere in the facility so I can keep my eye on what's going on in his work at Texas State dr. Wescott is
► 00:07:03he's following in the footsteps of his Professor the biggest name in this field dr. Bell bass dr. bass opened the University of Tennessee anthropological research facility in 1981 it was the first of these so-called body Farms although we learned no scientists call them that and he pioneered the idea that we needed a death database if too much time has passed when law enforcement encounters a body they have no way to tell when the person
► 00:07:33I'd much less who they were or what happened and the only way to answer these questions is to put a body outside and watch it decompose I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal
► 00:08:05here's what happens when you die after your heart stops beating your muscles start to stiffen and rigor mortis sets in over the next few days the bacteria that's already in your body just starts to take over and so as they do they put start to produce gases and these gases
► 00:08:26we will just kind of work their way through the arteries and veins stuff like that and you get what's called marbling and then it also then the next kind of step to this is that that gas starts to build up and causes the body's to go through what's called a bloom stage so they'll actually kind of puff up how long after death does that happen depends on the time of year but it can it can range from 3 or 4 days to a few weeks
► 00:08:56weeks usually here probably within about five days they're going into bloat once that happens then the other thing that's happening is that you're also getting flies that are attracted to the body and those slides are laying eggs and they tend to lay eggs and natural or food so they like the eyes ears nose mouth stuff like that and then they
► 00:09:25so those maggots will hatch in there again depends on the species and the temperature depends on how long it takes but usually a few days to a week or so and they start feeding on the body as well
► 00:09:41so you've got that process going on and then you've got the internal organs are decomposing and so those internal organs are kind of liquefying and with the gas that's building up that liquid gets pushed out and that's what we call the purge phase so that you get what's called Purge fluid and so just a dark fluid
► 00:10:04dark yeah what is it it's not blood what does it mean their combination of all the internal organs that have been decomposed
► 00:10:24it's a big place it is a big place alright so here we turn between the two groups to be talking the bodies are placed on Freeman Ranch which sets off a small highway just a few miles from the lab once you pass through the gates you see what I only imagine you might see on any number of ranches in Texas Cactus tall green grass and cows we just kept driving down a dirt road taking a left or right whenever
► 00:10:53we're told two and then we arrived
► 00:11:00the only difference between this part of the ranch and any other was the giant fence and locked gate
► 00:11:14so our first stop will be at the shed there to put on booties okay in reality what the booties are for is so that in case you actually Italy step in something you don't drag it back to your car are you wow are you kidding that's exactly why everybody thinks it's so that's like protecting those scene but it's actually so that you don't drag home decomp fluid on your shoes The Purge fluid right into the
► 00:11:41back into the minivan right
► 00:11:47all right let's see we'll start this way
► 00:11:53so typically the way that this works is
► 00:11:57the way the bodies are placed depends on what research protocol they're being used in but typically they're left uncaged on the surface caged on the surface buried or wrapped in something so this is the one that left on the surface only a few feet from the gates it's the first body it was hard to pick out at first because of the tall grass around it this were individual was originally closed and then the scattering is from from
► 00:12:27different scavengers that have come so we can see a pair of sneakers and a pair of pants and a sock but then the bones are all kind of broken apart yeah the kind of pulled apart a different places who what animal did this well mostly started out with vultures and then probably you've had some raccoons and other things come since then but most of this is vulture activity I had no idea what to expect when we walked into that field I was nervous
► 00:12:56about a lot of things wondering whether I'd be able to get these images out of my head that night when I went to sleep trying to figure out how I would carry on an interview well not breathing through my nose regretting not bringing a change of clothes but this actually seemed okay that first body hadn't been that bad and then we turned a corner all right so the area that we're getting ready look at this there we were getting ready to the Past actually this
► 00:13:27right here is as researcher actually from New York that's here so she's got bodies on the surface and bodies that are buried oh this is really something so there is a field of bodies under cages and unlike what we had just seen these bodies seemed kind of new all we run clothes I could see one man in a cage out of my right eye his stomach was so bloated that it almost touched the top of the
► 00:13:56the cage and his limbs were spread out to the sides his skin was a mix of black and brown and purple splotches I was trying to stay back but dr. Wescott one straight form you can see the maggots pretty active yeah at this time stage and they had so this person has gone through bloat guys alright yeah but this is wild stuff
► 00:14:25this is wild stuff I don't think many people in their lives see stuff like this so you can see I'm talking about the skin kind of becomes really dark associated with the sulfuric gas that's produced by the bacteria and stuff and then you get the active maggot masses going on he kept drawing our attention to things that none of us actually wanted to see up close so we were trying to stay with him but also just trying to keep our eyes
► 00:14:55straight ahead it was hard to know what to do and it was hot over 90 degrees and then dr. Wescott took us to a row of bodies under cages which seem to be showing a progression going through time and in a sense and you can see that they've gone through bloat they're actually starting to starting to dry out
► 00:15:22yep so this is we're kind of going through the process here walking down the line yeah
► 00:15:29so you can see there's these are starting to get skeletonized
► 00:15:35how long have these guys been out here do you think he's been out here probably a little over a year
► 00:15:40but you can see now you can't even see the cadaver decomposition I remember you can barely see the body anymore because all that vegetation around it perch fluid is so nutrient-rich that it acts like a super fertilizer and so bodies in the final stages of decomposition are surrounded by Bunches of these tall healthy wild flowers
► 00:16:01the flowers are back the flowers are back yeah
► 00:16:06dr. West God is working on a new project that uses drones and infrared cameras to detect how much organic material is in the soil if law enforcement is trying to locate a missing person in a huge area 5,000 Acres they can use the Drone technology to narrow things down looking for spots with a lot of organic material they're also working with police dogs most cadaver dogs are trained with small tissue samples
► 00:16:36turns out the docs don't always know how to react when they encounter a whole body so police bring their dogs to the ranch to get used to finding the real thing these different experiments are spread around the ranch and Texas state collaborates with other facilities doctor Wescott showed us an experiment were three different centers across the country placed a body on the exact same day to compare Regional differences so the
► 00:17:06the the body that we're looking at right there seems to me to be rather new Yep this per individual was probably place yesterday oh that's a brand new body
► 00:17:22is it who isn't that something
► 00:17:27our last stop was a clearing with three shallow Graves on the day we visited they were in the process of Excavating the skeletons the excavation was being done by more than 20 students all women a lot of this work is done by women dr. Wescott is the only male director in the country and almost all of his colleagues and his graduate students are women dr. Cates Bradley was in charge of the excavation it's interesting I think
► 00:17:57to do this kind of work to look at all of these dead bodies basically and all of these human remains in the lab yeah I see a skeleton I see a task at hand I see a job that I have to do particularly with with the forensic cases that come in we have a job to help identify those so going in there analyzing the skeleton that's what we do for me it's different when I walk out to this the forensic anthropology research facility where people donate their bodies because here
► 00:18:27when I see remains I see people who donated their bodies this was their last wish this is what they wanted to do so for me it's very nice coming out here seeing them in their final resting place and it's a very natural they just returned to the Earth are you a donor I am a donor other members of your family no nobody else wants to do this but me my husband is pretty uneasy about it but I've looked at so many skeletons I built my career on looking at skeleton so I think it's
► 00:18:57only right that I give back
► 00:19:06just listen to the birds
► 00:19:11yeah it's incredibly peaceful it's beautiful place faith
► 00:19:16on our way out we made one last stop the same stop that all the body can make before they leave the ranch the processing lab
► 00:19:28what is the kettle do I just it's just simmer them for a little bit that loosens up all the soft tissue
► 00:19:39giant soup kettle chips
► 00:19:43but then what's the crock pot for a small hands and feet and stuff like that's a small bones that a lot of times it's easier to finish him off in there and then so they're cooked in here and then they're right over here and they scrub them all down what are these little guys down here tips of your fingers that's a fingertip
► 00:20:06these are all toes and you see the little teeny toes in in these little things right there these are these are actually extras not they're not even included in the 206 it looks like wood this bone almost looks like wood yeah it takes on the color of the soil
► 00:20:24we saw to complete skeletons lay down metal Gurney's and organized anatomically it's amazing to see how fragile our ribs are
► 00:20:34we were very lucky to be permitted to visit normally only law enforcement and researchers are allowed in even if you decide to donate your body you'll never be able to see this place while you're alive but people do ask well usually when someone calls they say something along the lines of I'm interested in donating my body to science and I hear that you take bodies if you call for information you'll speak with Lauren mekel and so I let them
► 00:21:04about the forensic anthropology Center and how their body can help identify missing persons and they usually get very excited about that and
► 00:21:15they they asked about some of the research projects that we're doing specifically about the vulture studies people are really interested in vulture consumption of human remains like they want to be part of that study or they do not want to be part of that study many people actually are very interested in being part of that study they see it as a sky burial so it's something that
► 00:21:42seems peaceful I suppose
► 00:21:45you can actually make requests and they'll try to honor them you can ask to wear certain item of clothing or a piece of jewelry you can ask to be placed under a tree one man asked to be placed with a cell phone and they did it people also call to ask about the status of a friend or family member so people say I'm just wondering if they're all decomposed now and they're back inside yes I think I would that's the question I would want to know to if someone was if you had got him off
► 00:22:15the ground and back in the Box yes and usually people are surprised by how long it takes to because sometimes it can be 6 months if we're doing a study where someone dropped in a tarp for instance and they skeletonized really quickly and then we can pick them up really fairly soon after their death but for the most part they stay out there for about two years
► 00:22:39many of the donors have spent their life in education and see this as a way to continue teaching after they've died and many work in law enforcement and have seen the value of the research firsthand I kind of see it as an extension of being an investigator Elaine Walker is a retired private investigator and last year she made the decision to donate her body to the forensic investigation research station in Colorado
► 00:23:09how do you like retired life it's the best job I've ever had oh good she really loved my job but at this is the best job I've ever had may I ask how old you are 67 your 67 but why not donate your body to science and another way like organ donor is there something about the I guess that there's no investigative quality when you donate your liver well no but I am an organ donor however at
► 00:23:38at my age some of my organs are you know wouldn't really work out in somebody else's body they're a little on the old side how do you imagine the Body Farm peaceful have you seen pictures no I haven't seen pictures I would imagine it's peaceful it is out away from civilization and I imagine that there are just bodies laying there and birds coming into feast
► 00:24:09them yeah that's bother me at all that I'm going to be eaten that's a wild thing to be talking about isn't it yes it is what did you tell your family when you signed up how did they respond my husband isn't very excited about it but he respects that that's what I want to do
► 00:24:31what will your husband do when he dies that's a good question because he won't discuss it he's so terrified of death he won't discuss it wasn't that interesting it's like opposite ends of the spectrum yes it really is so I but I did tell him that I was going to send him off the cheapest way possible if he doesn't tell me what he wants but he still won't tell me what he wants Elaine was the fourth person we spoke
► 00:25:01quit who plan to donate their body to a body Farm but whose spouse refused to even talk about it even dr. Bill Bass the pioneer of the Body Farm is leaving the decision up to his wife
► 00:25:16since that trip I keep thinking about one particular part of Freeman Ranch a patch of woods off the main path it was greener than other places Shady doctor Wescott stopped us there and asked us to listen to the birds right in front of us there was a body under a tree protected from the Sun someone who thought they might be able to do some good someone who agreed to be placed outside under the trees with the
► 00:25:46talks until they disappear
► 00:26:01criminal is produced by Lawrence poor nydia Wilson and me audio mix by Rob buyers special thanks to Sergeant Zachary McBride of the Guadalupe County Sheriff's office this week we say goodbye to our long-standing intern Alice Wilder Alice is responsible for some of our favorite stories like Tony the Tiger at the truck stop and the woman who borrowed a bra from a postal worker Alice even approach
► 00:26:28dozens of strangers ask them what 420 means she's on her way to New York for next chapter in podcasting we're going to miss her and wish her all the best Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal you can see them at this is Criminal.com if you liked this episode and what we're doing review us on iTunes so others can find us say hello on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram criminal is recorded in the Studio's of
► 00:26:58North Carolina public radio wnc we're proud member of radio topia from PR X and we're excited to welcome a new show in to the radio Topia family ear hustle shares true stories of life in San Quentin State Prison told directly by and from the men living there the show One radio Toby has pod Quest contest last year beating at more than 15 hundred entries from around the world you can hear preview in just a moment
► 00:27:29radio Topia is supported by the Knight foundation and thanks to adcirc for providing their ad serving platform to radio Topia I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal
► 00:27:46the following podcast contains language that may not be appropriate for all listeners I did not realize that I could be potentially facing life in prison now I'm going to drag you through four corners of this sale it's like that it's like I don't want to be in prison but I want to know what it's like to be in prison
► 00:28:07you really think people want to know what it's like in prison course
► 00:28:12you got all these TV shows new programs like a prison break Orange is the New Black locked you won't let me know all the shows but they all bullshit though why are they bullshit is this a known time servant I never did no real tacton and in prison I really liked it I mean we just living life like everybody else I'm Earl on Woods or Lana serving a 31-year to life sentence for attempted second-degree robbery and he's the co-host and co-producer of your hustle and that is Nigel
► 00:28:42or she's a visual artist who works with incarcerated man here at San Quentin and she's the co-producer and co-host of are hustle see she brings a softer touch to the show thanks Antoine well good that's Antwone Williams he's serving a 15-year sentence for armed robbery with a gun enhancement and he's the sound designer for your hustle I believed I was going to die in prison she was happy to be with me we all work together inside of the media lab in San Quentin prison where we
► 00:29:11Deuce here hustle and it's all done inside the prison I mean the interviewing editing sound design by you boy and that's really cool but it also is super challenging because we have limited hours we can work we've got no internet access and we can't even freaking talk to each other on the phone whoo and on top of all that prison is never a quiet place and that's great
► 00:29:39heyi tell everyone what you're hustling means it means being nosy and he's dropping and learning more about what actually happens inside of prison you'll be hearing directly from the guys that's doing the time so we're going to be telling stories all kind of stories that range from starting a family having pets misguided loyalty fashion through cooking isolation sibling rivalry mommy daddy times we got a lot of ground to cover over our first season we decided to kick off the season with a story that everybody
► 00:30:09he can relate to finding somebody to live with
► 00:30:13in prison terms that mean finding a cellmate can we hear just a little bit of it nope yep no no yeah okay wait just a little bit all right hold on hold on only because you said please when we sell these I didn't smoke he was smoking cigarettes and he just lit up right there on the bunk and he's like to kill me you're killing me with this you're gonna kill me with cancer shut the fuck up with that shit man God it's like where we are in prison for life you know I have 67 years to life but I am
► 00:30:43smoking the cigarette so that's episode 1 of your hustle coming soon from Radio topia from PRX before we go huge props to a crucial partner in all of this and that's Lieutenant Sam Robinson the saint Queen public information officer without his guidance and support none of this would be happening he also has to listen to all of our stories in okay than before they go out even this promo so what about it Lieutenant are we cool this is Lieutenant Sam Robinson the public information officer at San Quentin State Prison and I am
► 00:31:13prove this story and please visit our website are hustle SQ.com you can subscribe to the podcast sign up for our newsletter and find out how to send us a question by postcard that we might answer on a future episode that's are hustle SQ.com so kick back relax because we're about to take you inside radio tell me
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